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#mythtv IRC Logs for 2007-12-18

---Logopened Tue Dec 18 00:00:07 2007
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01:52<matt>i just bought a wintv go-plus, i've installed mythbuntu and have gotten it all up and running but the sound quality on live tv is terrible
01:52<matt>can someone help me out?
01:53<matt>the card was detected so i'm not sure why quality is so poor
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01:55<matt>oops wrong chan sry
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04:33<superm1>could someone close up bug 4146? I just looked over the stacktrace, and it didn't retrace properly
04:42<superm1>also same thing with 4145, back stack retrace
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05:44<larson9999>finally, schedule direct has populated the programs!
05:47<larson9999>i was just starting to think i wasn't going to pay for that service :)
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11:40<peterpan_>any body home?
11:40<peterpan_>how to know at which port is my tv tuner connected? and is enabled. i mean i installed the driver "dvb" from .. is it installed good ?
11:41[~]stuarta points at the topic
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15:13<emarkd>can anyone here explain to me how the dialog popups for mythtv are created/called. i see where they're defined in the xml file for the theme, but i'm not sure how to create them from my script. can anyone help
15:14<laga>what kind of script are you talking about?
15:14<emarkd>like a perl script. for instance, in mythvideo, when i click the "look up" function, it calls, but it pops up a dialog that tells me it's working
15:15<emarkd>i can't see where that's happening in the perl script
15:15<laga>that's not done by, it's done by mythvideo
15:15<laga>such a thing is not possible unless you use the python bindings for mythtv
15:15<emarkd>yeah, that's what i thought. how can i replicate that
15:15<laga>or maybe the network control interface. not sure if that can do proper popups
15:16<emarkd>hmm.... i just wanted to write a popup that tells me it's loading the video. i'm using older hardware and sometimes there's a delay after i click play before mplayer is launched.
15:16<laga>you need to put that in the mythvideo code then
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15:17<emarkd>that's what i was afraid of. i guess i've got a lot more code reading to do. are there any good docs that may help me hunt down the appropriate functions?
15:18<gbee>network control interface can't do it, since it's just a control thing
15:18<laga>emarkd: ^^ there might be something in that documentation
15:18<laga>gbee: hence the name :)
15:18<laga>daniel has some cute animals on
15:19<emarkd>laga: looks promising. i'll spend some time reading there...
15:19<emarkd>thanks for the help
15:19<justinh>didn't I once see a theme thing that said "loading..." for some plugin or other? I think I pulled it from my themes
15:19<laga>come to think of it
15:19<laga>i seem to remember such a thing for mythvideo, too
15:20<laga>maybe it's only accessible for some views
15:20<justinh>it's there in gallery view I think
15:20<gbee>the dialog may be defined in the theme, style, layout, text - but it's triggered from within the code so you need to modify mythvideo to show it
15:20<emarkd>justinh: you're right!
15:21<emarkd>wonder why list view doesn't do it
15:21<justinh>probably not coded to do it
15:21<emarkd>well, i'm sure, but it seems like a strange omission...
15:21<justinh>and most definitely not defined in the theme either
15:21<gbee>have a word with Anduin
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15:21<justinh>seemed like a strange thing to put there in the 1st place if you ask me
15:21<emarkd>why is that?
15:22<gbee>emarkd: not really, the various displays of mythvideo were all written at different time, by different people and as a result there is a lack of consistency
15:22<justinh>most of the time you'd reasonably expect it to be doing what you told it to do
15:22<emarkd>gbee: i understand. i can see how it would happen that way
15:22<emarkd>justinh: my remote is sometimes unreliable, so sometimes i don't know if it got the command at all
15:23<justinh>if something takes little to no time to load I'd find it worse to have a message flash up very briefly ;)
15:23<emarkd>on my older hardware, it takes a few seconds to start mplayer, and i'm sitting there wondering if i should risk hitting play again :)
15:23<gbee>justinh: have to disgree in this case, there are times when certain actions can take some time and telling the user that they are being acted upon (instead of failing or never starting) is not a bad thing
15:23<laga>emarkd: i wonder if you could use xosd
15:23<justinh>recordings take a daft amount of time to start playing back in comparison to mythvideo with an external player. I just have to sit there watching a black screen for 10 secs
15:23<gbee>emarkd: any reason you are using mplayer over the internal player?
15:24<laga>emarkd: like, xosd could display a message if you hit the play button. kinda annoying
15:24<laga>if it happens during live tv ;)
15:24<emarkd>gbee - my install came with mplayer configured by default. i've never changed it
15:24<emarkd>laga - that's worth looking it to. i haven't considered that
15:25<gbee>emarkd: must be before 0.20 then, when we replaced the dependancy on external media players
15:25<justinh>gbee: I think I'd be more bothered by a brief glimmer of 'something'. making it so it can be turned off might be better - even if it's something you need to edit a theme to do
15:25<GreyFoxx>justinh: running svn trunk or 0.20.2 ?
15:25<GreyFoxx>I've got 2 things to look at, both of which delay the startup of playback using the internal player
15:25<justinh>GreyFoxx: 0.20.something right now. bedding my new FE in for a bit before taking trunkage for a spin I think
15:25<gbee>justinh: ouch, never been like that here (though even so, the startup could be speeded up a little, think sphery fingered the font loading for part of that)
15:26<justinh>gbee: even my new frontend is taking its time. it's ridiculous
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15:26<justinh>I timed the mysql queries & I know it wasn't that slowing it down. they take next to no time
15:26<gbee>justinh: hmm, remote backend?
15:27<justinh>gbee: aye
15:28<gbee>using a remote backend here two and once or twice lately it has been a little slow, but I put that down to network issues as it's been fine in the past
15:28<gbee>so I lied when I said it's "never been like that here", just didn't think mythtv was responsible
15:28<justinh>there's next to nowt on my home network. most traffic it gets is myth
15:29<justinh>I'll see what happens when I rip the old backend out. only gonna keep the DB & recordings when it's done
15:29<GreyFoxx>There are two "major" slowdowns in playback that can be agrivated by remote frontends depending on their setup
15:30<GreyFoxx>1 the preloading and rescaling of CC fonts at the start of all playback rather than loading as needed which I have started a patch for
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15:30<GreyFoxx>the other is that we are doinga upnp discover for the mysql info everytime playback starts even though we alreayd have it
15:30<GreyFoxx>just discovered that yesterday
15:30<justinh>even in 0.20 ?
15:31<GreyFoxx>a lot of upnp changes were backported to 0.20.2
15:31<justinh>not running that
15:31<GreyFoxx>I don't know when it was introduced
15:31<GreyFoxx>the first problem would exist in 0.20, the upnp one would be 0.20.2 and newer
15:31<justinh>couldn't get minimyth to run reliably past 0.20-19 (minimyth version) so I never upgraded
15:31<GreyFoxx>the first one adds 6 seconds to playback startup on my remote frontends (nfsrooted)
15:31<justinh>that'd do it
15:32<GreyFoxx>For a while I just commented that code out, but I've started a proper patch for it
15:32<justinh>is it doing anything like looking for channel icons too? I've not got around to having them stored locally yet
15:33<GreyFoxx>It might but I haven't timed t hat. I think it loads info on the icon from the DB but nothing else until the OSD is called
15:35<GreyFoxx>we load and scale several fonts like 49 times each at playback startup even though most people don't use them
15:35<GreyFoxx>so this patch will just load them as needed for display
15:35<justinh>anyway emarkd the container you're looking for is 'playwait'. it's called 'playwait' in the xml (video-ui.xml) and as far as I can tell is only called in browse mode (videobrowse.cpp)
15:36<justinh>GreyFoxx: coolness
15:36<emarkd>justinh: thanks for the heads up. i'm reading through some of the docs on cuymedia and hopefully i can get this working.
15:37<justinh>emarkd: with any luck you'll be able to work it out - could just be a simple copy & paste (best coding I can ever do)
15:37<emarkd>justinh: :) understand that one
15:37<justinh>if it's in browse mode I don't see any harm putting it in the other views aswell
15:37<emarkd>justinh: i'm going to try it out and see what i get
15:38<justinh>I finish work for the year tomorrow lunchtime. got all sorts of things planned, like picking up the plugin I started
15:38<justinh>yeah GreyFoxx I plan to carry out my threat to make that appearance setting-up widget
15:39<emarkd>thanks to all. later.
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15:39<justinh>wish me luck on that one. just remind me not to call anything in the destructor & wonder why it doesn't work
15:39<justinh>do that every blimmin time!
15:58<GreyFoxx>justinh: Yay!
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16:06<gbee>the autodiscover problem shouldn't exist in anything backported to 0.20-fixes, but I'm interested that you've spotted that problem in trunk might be the actual cause of the issues I was seeing
16:07<GreyFoxx>I ran into it when using the internal player yesterday to play a file in mythvideo when my backend was off
16:07<GreyFoxx>it complained about not finding a backend and then carried on playing
16:07<GreyFoxx>so I sniffed it and it looks like it's doing the sql discovery
16:08<gbee>that's not good at all
16:08<GreyFoxx>I can see it if it's called from the commandline cause it wouldn't have the info (but it should look for the data in mysql.txt too)
16:08<GreyFoxx>but not when called from inside mythitself
16:08<gbee>the font thing is pretty nasty too, but I've known about it for a while
16:08<GreyFoxx>yeah I ran into it a while ago
16:09<GreyFoxx>just getting around to finally fixing it
16:09<GreyFoxx>I've got a few things I want to get done before 0.21 so I'm hoping the next week will give me some coding time
16:11<gbee>both issues are blockers IMHO, so it's good that you are working on them
16:12<sphery>Anyone know why the internal player would properly recognize that refresh rate is too low for bob 2x when playing recordings, but not upon LiveTV startup?
16:12<sphery>it actually uses bob 2x, but looks terrible
16:13<sphery>GreyFoxx: didn't I see a commit from Nigel that attempted to cache the DB information
16:13<sphery>can't seem to find it now, though
16:13<laga>maybe it's buffering on livetv startup and doesn't recognize the frame rate of the video stream properly
16:14<GreyFoxx>gbee: A third issue which has me bothered is that 99% of the time when using the internal player to play non recording playback starts 3-7 seconds in to the video at not at the beginning. BUT the OSD shows you starting at second 0/1
16:14<sphery>Possible. It's easy enough to fix--I can just change the playback profile to use a different primary deinterlacer, but it seems to be a bug. I guess I can try to figure out the new profiles code to see.
16:14<GreyFoxx>if you hit back you can go back to the real start of the video and it will carry on propperly
16:16<gbee>GreyFoxx: rarely watch non recording stuff so can't say I'm aware of the issue, but it's most likely connected to the lack of seektable somehow
16:16<GreyFoxx>I see it all the time,
16:16<GreyFoxx>it's a "new" thing that I didn't notice before last june or july
16:17<GreyFoxx>can't remember exactly when I first noticed it
16:17<GreyFoxx><<-- Shoulda put a ticket into trac at the time I first saw it
16:22<sphery>GreyFoxx: this is the one I was thinking of: . May not be related.
16:27<sphery>laga: The fact that changing video scan from detect to detect (i.e. just forcing it to re-detect) makes it realize that refresh rate is too low seems to support your theory--that it doesn't know the real refresh rate for the LiveTV upon startup. Holds even after a channel change, though, so maybe it's lacking info on display, instead.
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16:44<superm1>can someone with the appropriate rights close up #4145 and #4146? The backtraces for them are no good.
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17:35<janneg>superm1: I'll do it
17:38<janneg>gbee: I've closed 4146
17:39<gbee>janneg: doh
17:40<gbee>4146 is against 0.20.1 anyway and judging from the backtrace in 4145 I'm thinking it's build related, first one points at cmov
17:46<gbee>on second thoughts, I dunno
17:47<gbee>I'll let someone else decide
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18:00<JoeBorn>hi all
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18:00<JoeBorn>Neuros is promoting an "unlocked" brand for all of us using non DRM'd recordings
18:01<JoeBorn>essentially an effort to articulate to the public the benefits of DRM free stuff.
18:02<JoeBorn>we're looking to hand it over to FSF or EFF or someone ultimately to manage
18:02<laga>ah. so you're now using it for marketing and let someone else clean up afterwards? :)
18:02<JoeBorn>well, not exactly.
18:03<JoeBorn>the fear is that no one will adopt it if a for profit co owns it.
18:03<JoeBorn>a non profit would have more credibility
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18:04<laga>i like the idea of having a logo for that. it's kind of ironic that you actually need such a thing :/
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18:11<gbee>JoeBorn: nice idea
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18:11<JoeBorn>gbee: thanks.
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18:15<gbee>those most likely to benefit from it are commercial efforts, since it will make most impact at a point of sale, but all the same creating a recognisable labelling scheme for DRM free kit would be good for everyone who wants to see the back of DRM if it takes off
18:17<gbee>an antidote to Windows "Plays for sure" - Unlocked "Plays anywhere"
18:17<laga>i like how "plays for sure" plays on the zune
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18:23<gbee>JoeBorn: you are right to fear that adoption of the 'brand' would be affected so long as Neuros were in control, no-one wants to think they are just giving free advertising to Neuros in the promotion of the idea although even in the hands of EFF or FSF, Neuros still has a commercial interest in seeing it succeed
18:24<laga>you might want to think about finding another vendor who'd put your logo on their devices
18:24<JoeBorn>well, unlocked would be separate from the Neuros logo if that's what you're worried about.
18:25<laga>hum. gbee probably means that people will look at the unlocked logo and think "hey, that's the neuros stuff". that's good for your company, but bad for adoption
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18:27<laga>especially when you mention your products almost immediately in your blog post :)
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18:28<JoeBorn>right, well obviously we're the only ones using the mark right now ":)
18:28<JoeBorn>but I think that's the point of the mark is that it's supposed to be a feature that kind of has value itself.
18:29<JoeBorn>at this point, we're (unilaterally) trying to build that value
18:29<JoeBorn>ie. "it can do all that because it uses 'unlocked' media"
18:29<JoeBorn>then joe consumer says "oh I must want 'unlocked' media"
18:30<JoeBorn>and goes to best buy and asks for it when shopping for DVR
18:30<JoeBorn>well, that's the general idea anyway.
18:30<laga>i'm just saying that it'll be way easier for the logo to be valuable on its own when other companies are actually using it, too
18:30<JoeBorn>laga: no question, but it's a bit of a chicken and egg of course.
18:31<gbee>JoeBorn: to ensure it succeeds in the long term, that means getting the logo adopted by as many groups/companies as soon as possible, because if you fail to do that in the next 6/12 months, then the idea will fall flat
18:32<JoeBorn>gbee: I agree with that assessment
18:32<JoeBorn>right now, we're trying to get momentum in the important first 24-28 hours :)
18:33<laga>i already dugg you.
18:35<laga>JoeBorn: bug the guys in #ubuntu-mythtv-dev as well while you're at it
18:37<JoeBorn>ok, thanks for the tip
18:37<gbee>actually there is value in getting Canonical on board, since those guys can market anything
18:38<laga>if you ware referring to mythbuntu: i don't think the ties between canonical and mythbuntu are that close
18:38<gbee>look at Ubuntu, in a couple of years they've managed to create the biggest buzz around a pretty mediocre distro
18:39<gbee>laga: no, I was thinking higher up the food chain, Jono Bacon etc
18:39<laga>gbee: i'm wondering: have you ever tried ubuntu or just _k_ubuntu=
18:40<gbee>laga: yeah, well ... only the livecd version of ubuntu admittedly, but then I rate the KDE suite of apps higher than gnomes anyway so any excellant distro has to be based around kde anyway ;)
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18:41<laga>heh :) ubuntu is supposed to be more polished than their kde distro
18:41<gbee>it's all a matter of opinion of course, but I saw nothing especially impressive about Ubuntu
18:42<gbee>certainly nothing in Gutsy that Mandriva (to name the one I know best) wasn't doing a year or two earlier
18:43<gbee>but maybe I should stop evangalising Mandriva until they pay me for the free press I've already given them ;)
18:46<gbee>I like the stated aims of Canonical, hard not to admire that, but that isn't enough if the distro doesn't match my expectations
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20:09<JoeBorn>engadget picked it up
20:09<JoeBorn>there are some grating explanatory videos after the break that will have you running back to the open arms of "Big Media" in a heart beat. :)
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21:24<DapOrp>ok, no help there, does anyone here know of a way to automatically expire and delete all recordings in one fatal swoop?
21:25<DapOrp>or is there a way to change the disk space free threshold from a remote console login? meaning I can't physically see or access the frontend?
21:25<DapOrp>i just need a sudden burst of freespace on the drive it's recording to.
21:29<kormoc>DapOrp, topic
21:33<DapOrp>so a developer can't answer this question i guess.
21:33<DapOrp>or say if it's even possible so I can stop bugging people about trying to figure out how to do it.
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21:34<DapOrp>that's fine. hide behind your topic as much as you want. :)
21:34<kormoc>DapOrp, the point being, if any of the devs want to do end user support, they'd be in both channels.
21:34<DapOrp>who knows myth better the user? or the developer? :)
21:34<DapOrp>that's fine. I understand.
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21:52<ramza3>are a lot of those youtube videos of clips of shows, clipped through a pvr system like mythtv
21:53<kormoc>ramza3, topic
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23:33<CIDR>applying that multi thread patch did nothing
23:33<CIDR>Any other options I should look at?
23:33<CIDR>wrong channel sorry
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23:44<mcquaid>just a user here, i wanted to record a particular episode of a show that was on today and it's not repeating any time soon. I wanted to set a rule to record this exact ep only, but doesn't seem possible
23:45<mcquaid>i was wondering if an option for 'record exact title only' has ever been considered as a recording option
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23:48<hads>Wrong channel mcquaid
23:48<mcquaid>hads, yes i'm aware of mythtv-users, but no one in the users channel would ever be able to tell me if this type of feature was ever considered
---Logclosed Wed Dec 19 00:00:48 2007