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#mythtv IRC Logs for 2007-12-19

---Logopened Wed Dec 19 00:00:48 2007
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01:40<Anduin>Chutt: ticket delete patch sent to case
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05:00<stuarta>hmmmm. 4327 didn't get auto closed by the trac hook on monday.
05:00<stuarta>however the later change did ref it.
05:06<stuarta>*sigh* john's updated the ticket while i wasn't looking again...
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06:59<gbee>justinh: problem with the settings watermark for mythmovies - the string should be SETTINGS_MOVIETIME but blootube-wide has SETTINGS_MOVIETIMES
07:09<Dibblah>We need logins to Trac.
07:10<Dibblah>... That way, we can add a "Me Too" button, that appears to work for the individual user ;)
07:10<stuarta>"Me Too" -> action -> trout user
07:10<Dibblah>I can't replicate this lock issue, BTW.
07:11<Dibblah>Which is the other annoying "me too" ticket.
07:11<stuarta>lock issue? with scanning?
07:11<Dibblah>Live TV.
07:11<stuarta>ah that one
07:11<Dibblah>Of course, they *could* try setting the timeout higher and seeing what happens.
07:12<Dibblah>Or... I don't know. _tracking down the bloody change_.
07:12<stuarta>i can see logically how there could be a problem.
07:13<Dibblah>Caused by?
07:13<stuarta>a timing issue.
07:14<Dibblah>I would offer to test stuff for you, but I can't repro it :((
07:14<stuarta>i haven't even looked
07:14<stuarta>come jan, i'm going to spend some time giving myth some love
07:15<stuarta>fyi i've never seen it
07:15<Dibblah>You're on trunk with DVB-t, right?
07:16<gbee>stuarta: what you do in the privacy of you own home, is none of our business
07:16<stuarta>heh :)
07:18<stuarta>not that you can talk, the results of you giving myth some loving are out there for all to see :-P
07:23[~]stuarta chuckles
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08:38<justinh>gbee: oh. I'll fix that right up :)
08:39<justinh>not just pooptube-wide either
08:40<gbee>easy to see the reason, the other movies string is "movetimes" with the s, it's only the settings string that is missing it
08:43<justinh>I'll not waste time arguing which is wrong :P
08:55<gbee>one annoying thing about multiple monitors is that 50% of the time, the password popup for the screensaver appears on the monitor I've switched off
08:55<justinh>that's what bugged me about ubuntu's login screen - EWRONGMONITOR
08:57<gbee>login screen always appears on monitor 1 here, but the screensaver password seems to randomly appear on either
08:57<justinh>login screen would always come up on the VGA output not DVI :(
08:58<gbee>opposite here :)
08:59<justinh>time for chilli!
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09:00<laga>justinh: as i said, that should be fixable ;)
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09:05<justinh>yeah and as I said, it shouldn't need to be fixed ;)
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09:06<justinh>mmm chilli leftovers :P
09:06<wild_oscar>I was wondering if you ever thought of a plugin to integrate with a p2p system
09:07<wild_oscar>or if the legal implications are too much for u to consider it
09:07<justinh>over several devs' dead bodies, I'd postulate
09:08<justinh>I think it's even mentioned in the FAQ section of the wiki
09:09<wild_oscar>is it?
09:09<gbee>legal quagmire, won't happen officially and even if someone did it unofficially, they'd get a cold reception from the devs and any sane members of the community
09:10<wild_oscar>it's understandable
09:11<gbee>doesn't really matter how many legal uses something like Bittorrent might have, it's primarily used for illegal purposes and the attention it would draw to mythtv would be unwelcome
09:11<wild_oscar>it's unarguably the future
09:11<wild_oscar>just look at hulu
09:11<justinh>so p2p isn't technically illegal but I think it'd look pretty bad if a TV recording app had a built in client. mythtv would end up being guilty by association
09:12<justinh>the on-demand things like hulu & joost aren't using open p2p protocols though are they
09:12<wild_oscar>yes, I was referring to the whole concept of how people watch tv
09:13<wild_oscar>there are also different needs between us and europe
09:13<wild_oscar>I'm in europe
09:13<wild_oscar>if I want to watch House or Prison break, I have to download the episodes
09:14<justinh>heh well just call me cynical. I don't see any way media companies are going to allow just any old client connect to their networks. I only see the likes of p2p & IPTV as a great way for them to lock everything down as much as they want. And funny thing is, that's what they're doing
09:14<wild_oscar>so an auto-subscriber to these shows would be ideal in whatever system I have to watch them
09:15<gbee>wild_oscar: IMHO it's a substandard delivery method when compared to DVB/ATSC, or ondemand content through DVB-C, it may be the 'only' choice for some but that doesn't make it the future, the future would be be choice and content on existing TV networks
09:15<wild_oscar>yes, when I said "the future", I was speaking about the way we watch tv
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09:16<gbee>clogging up the internet with video traffic, when we already have an extremely high bandwidth, purpose built TV network seems madness to me
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09:16<wild_oscar>subscribe and record your favourite shows vs waiting for them to be on
09:16<justinh>funny but I already watch what I want, when I want with this little thing called mythtv
09:16<gbee>like moving all the trains off the rail network and onto the road, increasing congestion and meaning slower travel times
09:17<wild_oscar>justinh: lucky for u that u live in the US... ;)
09:17<justinh>the days of grazing endless numbers of dirge shows on countless channels are over
09:17<justinh>wild_oscar: I don't
09:17<wild_oscar>where do you live?
09:17<gbee>I'm not aware of anyone offering broadband, in the UK and most European countries, at speeds great enough to offer on-demand video content at the same quality as DVB
09:18<wild_oscar>we don't have DVB yet in Portugal
09:19<wild_oscar>haven't tried mythtv on my "analog" tv board, but I don't believe quality will be better than downloaded episodes
09:20<gbee>but from past discussions on the subject, I know that I'm pretty much alone in believing that TV over the net is a flawed idea - fine for distribution of small, independant material, but not as a replacement for existing TV networks
09:20<wild_oscar>gbee: i think it's too early to tell
09:20<justinh>you're talking about illegal stuff again wild_oscar. you got the answer to your question. very unlikely we'll ever see an official p2p client for mythtv
09:21<justinh>gbee: I'm with you on that. personally I hate the idea of it - it's rotten to the core
09:21<wild_oscar>I have no idea what the prices are for cable in the us, but look at the content available on hulu
09:22<wild_oscar>for the average viewer, telling him he won't have to pay anything to watch his favourite shows is all he needs
09:22<justinh>somebody has to pay for the shows to be made.
09:22<justinh>I think this discussion has reached its logical conclusion
09:23<gbee>wild_oscar: it's got nowhere to go, already the existing internet infrastructure is failing under the weight of traffic, I really can't see how they will perform miracles and offer high quality video to every consumer, in near realtime
09:24<gbee>15 years from now, maybe, when we've all got fibre to the home and 1Gb/s connections
09:25<laga>IPTV can work when the content distributor is close to the customer, eg if the ISP is only clogging their own network. bittorrent is a different beast, though
09:25<justinh>bottom line is, the MPAA & everybody else see p2p & see red. we don't need the aggravation
09:28<gbee>laga: BBC One on DVB-T here in the UK has a average bitrate of 4.50 Mbps, now I don't know of any UK ISP who can offer a sustainable throughput of that amount
09:28<gbee>to every customer
09:29<gbee>even if they could, would people tolerate being unable to use their connections for other things during that time?
09:30<gbee>maybe I'm missing something fundamental about IPTV, but I just can't see the point when we have well established and reliable delivery networks for TV and products like MythTV that allow us to watch them when we want
09:33<gbee>the internet isn't the solution to every problem and especially when the 'problems' never existed to start with
09:33<justinh>IPTV & everything else is ultimately going to mean they can turn our feed on & off as they see fit - and we'll probably end up paying per view of everything good IMHO
09:33<justinh>and if current models are anything to go by, £2.00 per sub-DVD quality episode is only the beginning
09:34<justinh>so er.. no thanks
09:34<justinh>if it ever happens I'm opting out of TV altogether. I won't be alone in that either I'll bet
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11:52<Chutt>i think mark's surround sound patch needs merged
12:02<stuarta>sounds like a plan
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12:17<janneg>any dev with equipment to test it? otherwise I can commit it tomorrow
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12:21<Chutt>janneg, nope
12:21<Chutt>i never got around to ordering the spdif adaptor for my production box
12:21<Chutt>i am a little worried that it apparently disables dts passthrough?
12:26<Cardoe>do we have a 0.21 timeframe?
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12:27<Chutt>early feb
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12:57<Chutt>stuarta, anduin sent me an update to the delete ticket changes plugin
12:57<Chutt>i'll get it installed when i have some free time today
12:57<Chutt>Anduin, thanks =)
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13:24<janneg>Chutt: I haven't looked at the multi channel audio patch closely after my last remarks. I'll look for ac3/dts passthrough breakage in the review before committing
13:25<Chutt>janneg, i just gave the patch a once-over, seemed fine otherwise
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13:45<knowledgejunkie>stuarta: I think #3610 can be closed after the commit of #4327
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14:00<stuarta>knowledgejunkie: i'll have a look
14:00<knowledgejunkie>stuarta: thx
14:00<stuarta>yes most definitely.
14:01<stuarta>now i just have to work out john's latest changes in the patch and commit them
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14:04<knowledgejunkie>stuarta: any plans before 0.21 to allow EIT data to be easily applied to >=1 non-EIT sources? I saw ticket #2416 whilst scanning though the outstandings and got wondering
14:05<stuarta>dunno, off the top of my head.
14:06<stuarta>i want to get the shared eit cache written first.
14:06<knowledgejunkie>stuarta: am I right in thinking DVB-S EIT is now/next only
14:06<stuarta>not necessarily
14:07<stuarta>depends where you are
14:07<stuarta>ie. dishnet works
14:07<Anduin>Chutt: I'll try to keep it up to date, I may even fix the javascript checkbox stuff next time.
14:07<Chutt>Anduin, cool.
14:07<stuarta>but no idea about the uk freesat stuff.
14:07<knowledgejunkie>stuarta: uk/astra28/freesat
14:07<stuarta>we don't even try the $ky stuff
14:08<stuarta>so it's whether or not they transmit something useful for the freesat STBs
14:08<stuarta>you got dvb-s?
14:09<knowledgejunkie>yes - picked up a nova-s - hence my moaning the other day about the scanning behaviour
14:10<stuarta>i'm planning to spend jan doing quite a bit of coding, so if you have time then we can work through it
14:11<knowledgejunkie>would be great to have it sorted for 0.21
14:16<stuarta>you could also try the channel-scan branch, as there's work been done in there.
14:18<knowledgejunkie>stuarta: i actually thought about that earlier - i might also look at the multirec stuff more closely but I doubt there's any chance of that making 0.21
14:19<stuarta>i actually expect multirec to make it, but it's not up to me
14:20<GreyFoxx>last I heard it's intended to be in 0.21
14:20<knowledgejunkie>great news
14:21<stuarta>dammit, where's the transcoding profile setup gone?
14:21<knowledgejunkie>I better start thrashing it on my test machine
14:22<knowledgejunkie>when will the feature freeze occur for 0.21?
14:22<GreyFoxx>no specific date set yet
14:22<GreyFoxx>wont be too far away though
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14:51<knowledgejunkie>kormoc: have you looked at either of the mythweb gallery modules on trac?
14:52<kormoc>I have not
15:01<knowledgejunkie>i guess that ruins my follow-up about which one you prefer then
15:16<sphery>Hmmm. I wonder if it was desired or overlooked that anyone can change a ticket from closed -> new (rather than the old closed -> reopened).
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15:49<gbee>stuarta: under recording profiles (not that intuitive)
15:50<gbee>oops, that was over an hour ago, so you've probably found it by now
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15:56<stuarta>gbee: thanks. i found it eventually
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16:13<GreyFoxx>hehe interesting. Anytime mythweb requests a screenshot of a show that was recorded on my slave backend, the GetPreviewImage? call triggers the slavebackend to ask the master for the mysql connection info
16:27<Anduin>So, any objections to me changing MythThemedDialog::ReallyUpdateForeground to not draw containers with a context that wouldn't be drawn anyway (currently a <container><context>1</context></container> will draw the background over the containers area for any context. (I need to hide potentially full-screen containers, and the existing behaviour seems to have no justification)
16:35<gbee>Anduin: heh, I wasn't quite sure what you were refering to and I was even more confused when I looked at the code, but it turns out I've had a patch in place on ReallyUpdateForeground for a while (so long that I don't remember writing it)
16:36<gbee>no idea if it's any use to you, but I'll pastebin it, give me a moment
16:36<justinh>I can't object to something I didn't follow ;)
16:36<Anduin>gbee: Yeah, it was very confusing the other night when I started looking at using contexts in MythVideo, inetwait made it look like nothing was working.
16:37<Anduin>justinh: even if the context of a container would prevent it from drawing the contents, a square the size of the container, from the dialog background, is drawn in its place.
16:38<gbee>Anduin: I think I found the same problem, but simply forgot to commit the fix, I can't really remember it at all though so I might not have committed it for good reason
16:38[~]gbee shrugs
16:38<justinh>erm.. I can see that causing issues in mytharchive
16:38<Anduin>gbee: Yeah, I've been running mine patched for a little over a day, hoping to find something it breaks
16:39<Anduin>gbee: same idea, though I just do the check in the loop just outter to there
16:39<Anduin>er, the if
16:40<justinh>oh wait.. _currently_ the background image will be drawn over the container area. ahhh. seriously can't see anything wrong with fixing that
16:41<justinh>sorry for being slow
16:42<gbee>should work just fine there I think
16:42<Chutt>i always got a laugh out of those variables named 'looper' in thor's code
16:43<Anduin>It is funny, and sad, I did an ann the other day to see who had written the hunter finder thing 100 times.
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16:50<Chutt>adding a simple constraint (names must be unique in a dialog), and all that code's unnecessary :/
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18:44<clever>i seem to have found a flaw in the mythcommflag
18:44<clever>it apears to be sleep()'ing to reduce cpu usage
18:44<clever>when the renicing alone should be enouugh to reduce its cpu usage
18:45<clever>so it winds up not using the entire cpu when running
18:47<sphery>clever: That's by design. In mythtv-setup: CPU Usage (Low|Medium|High): This setting controls approximately how much CPU jobs in the queue may consume. On 'High', all available CPU time may be used which could cause problems on slower systems.
18:47<clever>yeah i know of that option
18:47<clever>but when i set it to use more
18:48<clever>it doesnt renice itself
18:48<clever>so it takes alot more then i wanted it to use
18:48<sphery>Well, that's the option to control how much CPU is used.
18:48<clever>i want it to renice itself and NOT sleep causing the cpu to idle
18:48<sphery>sounds like you need a custom build
18:49<clever>i could just throw more jobs at the cpu
18:49<clever>then when 1 is uselessly idling another runs
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18:56<sphery>clever: looks like Medium gives no sleep but niced
18:56<clever>i'll try that
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19:40<Captain_Murdoch>high = no sleep, no nice. medium = nice but no sleep, low = nice and sleeping
19:40<Captain_Murdoch>for mythcommflag.
19:40<Captain_Murdoch>nice levels apply for mythtranscode as well I think, but can't remember if it sleeps any
19:41<clever>i'll have to set all my systems to med then
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19:42<Captain_Murdoch>low is there for people with software encoding on slower machines. even nicing on those machines isn't enough sometimes, so I made 'low' sleep a little to intentionally give up cpu cycles.
19:42<clever>i just disabled all jobs on my frame grabber
19:42<clever>and set it so jobs can run on any host
19:42<clever>and thru a mythbackend onto every frontend
19:43<clever>ive even got my dual 1.8ghz system netbooting now(front and backend)
19:43<Captain_Murdoch>before I wrote the jobqueue, you couldn't do that so I made the ability to set cpu level.
19:43<clever>netboot it and it should rip thru the commflags like nothing
19:43<clever>2 main problems i have with netbooting that box atm
19:43<clever>nfs-common takes 4mins to startup(long boot)
19:44<clever>and wifi is dead so i need it wired to do anything
19:44<clever>bcm43xx driver doesnt work right
19:47<clever>and my netboot image is still missing a few minor things like
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19:50<Captain_Murdoch>my netboot image is just a copy of my wife's old FC5 install with a private copy of /etc, /tmp, and /var for each server. a couple different kernels used depending on whether it's the P4 w/ HT frontend that can do HD or the measly msntv2 box
19:50<clever>i used debootstrap to make a thin install
19:50<clever>all boxes share the entire root
19:50<clever>no /etc/hostname in the root
19:51<clever>dhcp server sets the hostname
19:51<clever>xorg conf is /etc/X11/xorg.conf.`hostname` (uniq to the host)
19:51<Captain_Murdoch>same here, but different frontends/backends use different /etc/fstab files
19:51<clever>fstab has only 2 entrys atm
19:51<Captain_Murdoch>well, not same for xorg, need to setup something like that.
19:52<clever>for the shared root and for /media/mainlv(shared with all myth systems)
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19:52<clever>running the -generic kernel on both netboots(includes smp)
19:52<Captain_Murdoch>anyway, need to run, have my hdhomerun slave backend back up after rebuilding my wife's computer with fc8 so I can go watch TV now.
19:53<clever>the mythtv binarys are shared between nearly all systems(normal and netboot)
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---Logclosed Thu Dec 20 00:00:22 2007