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#mythtv IRC Logs for 2008-01-15

---Logopened Tue Jan 15 00:00:31 2008
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04:21*gbee yawns
04:22<gbee>wasn't one of the benefits of multirec that overlap would be possible on back to back recordings, or did I just misunderstand?
04:22<stuarta>i seem to remember that being the case
04:23<stuarta>however my memory is a bit like swiss cheese at times
04:24<gbee>doesn't appear to have been implemented, or I'm just missing a setting somewhere
04:26<stuarta>maybe that was in the planning phase :-/
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04:34<stuarta>johnp_: morning
04:45<stuarta>someone's talking porkies on the -dev list
04:46<stuarta>"but it seems to have stopped my CAM working (Sky NDS in the UK)"
04:46<stuarta>an NDS CAM???? does such a thing exist? doubt it
04:48<johnp_>stuarta: morning
04:54<anykey_>stuarta: there are cable providers in norway (iirc) that lend you such a thing
04:56<stuarta>however this is the UK
04:56<stuarta>$ky do not, ever AFAIK, do CAMs for NDS
04:56<stuarta>it's a $ky STB or nothing
04:56<stuarta>in the UK
04:57<hads>Sky don't do them, but they're available I believe.
04:57<stuarta>i'd be surprised if the were official and "technically" legal
04:58<hads>Oh more than likely not.
04:59<hads>Well, not not legal, but against T&C's.
04:59<Daviey>not that anybody has ever actually tested the legality aiui
04:59<Daviey>breaching T&C i can deal with, against the law - nope
05:10<janneg>gbee: if you add one end late minute to your record rules it will work
05:10<stuarta>does that work with a generic post-roll?
05:11<gbee>janneg: global padding or per rule padding? I've long had 2 minutes of global padding on the start/end of my recordings
05:12<janneg>gbee: we didn't want toching moving back to back (ignoring pre or post roll) recordings to different recorders after the softpad disaster
05:13<janneg>you could set up default "start early"/"end late" settings
05:13<stuarta>surely a per rule end late is merely a special case of post-roll
05:14<janneg>no, they aren't the same. the scheduler/recorders are free to ignore post-roll in the case of conflicts
05:15<gbee>I don't want to enable end late/start early because that will probably start causing conflicts
05:16<janneg>which is kind of silly now since we have enough recorders after the multirec merge (dvb only though)
05:16<gbee>I want the scheduler to ignore post-roll to resolve conflicts, but where the recordings are on the same multiplex/channel to allow overlap
05:17<stuarta>that makes sense
05:18<gbee>we only have enough recorders assuming that the programmes are on the same multiplex - so "end late" on programme A, mplex 1 may conflict with programme B, mplex 2
05:18<janneg>that might even be easy to implement without changing scheduler behaviour too much for other cards
05:20<stuarta>in the input group stuff i'd guess
05:20<janneg>but matching start end times on different channels are at least here unlikely
05:20<janneg>but I'll see if I can hack it into the scheduler
05:21<justinh>stuarta: a CAM exists (aka Dragon) or somesuch but it's not licenced or endorsed by Sky. it
05:21<stuarta>ah dragon cam, enuf said
05:22<justinh>it's hackish & can't update the card when they roll the keys so you have to put up with needing to refresh it in your Sky box every so often
05:22<justinh>don't think it's illegal as such but at the same time it's not legit either
05:23<gbee>probably more of a T&C violation
05:23<stuarta>a very large grey pandora's box
05:23<stuarta>which i don't plan on opening
05:23<janneg>the CAMs allegedly existing in norway are official
05:23<justinh>no theft of service is going on from the customer's side. and the CAM itself is more than likely something for Sky/NDS lawyers to deal with
05:23<justinh>but as you've said it's a can o worms
05:23<janneg>but you can't buy it
05:23<stuarta>if at the end of the day $ky are getting their money i don't think they'd bother
05:24<stuarta>so long as no rebroadcasting is going on
05:24<justinh>janneg: you can't buy it from Sky. It's a 3rd party thing
05:24<gbee>depends, use of a CAM means you aren't buying and paying the subscription for their own DVR service
05:25<stuarta>but as justinh pointed out it doesn't update the keys (which $ky do often i believe)
05:25<stuarta>so you actually have to stick it in the official box you have to keep it working
05:25<justinh>I think I wouldn't be happy to find a bunch of failed recordings - seems too limiting to be worthwhile anyway
05:26<anykey_>stuarta: though there is some software around for dreamboxes that allows key-updating.
05:26<gbee>really depends whether you consider Skys offerings to be worthwhile
05:26<justinh>probably more legs in that addon for certain Sky boxes to put the TS out over a USB port
05:26<janneg>justinh: I don't think it is even for Sky but just for nowegian cable networks
05:26*stuarta plays catch the worms and put them back in the box
05:27<justinh>FWIW I don't think there's any pay tv in the UK worth having. certainly not the movie channels :)
05:28*RaYmAn-Bx idly points out that in some countries it's perfectly legal to use third party equipment as well as CAM's (such as viaccess which is available from many tv resellers) (don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to start a discussion at all)
05:29<justinh>in some countries there
05:29<janneg>I fear modifying the scheduler is not that simple. it fear would end in reimplemting the softpad branch
05:29<justinh>there's not a single company with a monopoly as big as Sky's ;)
05:29<gbee>everthing on the movie channels will end up on terrestrial freeview a year or so later anyway, so unless you've got to see the film right now why bother and if you really must see it, why not at the cinema? :)
05:30<stuarta>my plan exactly
05:30<gbee>I couldn't care less about the sports channels
05:30<justinh>gbee: precisely :)
05:30<stuarta>however i'm still bloody waiting for SG-Atlantis series2
05:30*stuarta likes sports
05:30<anykey_>gbee: though there are TV series like SG-Atlantis which are broadcasted in HD ;)
05:30<janneg>or if you want to see it at home buy/lend the DVD
05:31<gbee>except for two/three programmes, everything on Sky 1/2/3 is a waste of time
05:31<gbee>anykey_: Channel 4 (I think) have the terrestrial broadcast rights for Atlantis and they've just launched C4 HD
05:32<justinh>hmm bad month to look at buying new hardware. car needs its tax & MOT :(
05:32<anykey_>gbee: not really something for me (living in Switzerland). Sky would be the only way to get it ;)
05:32<gbee>anykey_: C4 HD is FTA on satellite (at least I think it's FTA)
05:33<stuarta>should be.
05:33<anykey_>thought C4 is only FTV? i.e. you need a sky box?
05:33<stuarta>damn my $0 hardware budget
05:33<gbee>C4 might be, but I believe C4 HD has been launched as one of the "FreeSat" channels
05:34<justinh>anykey_: C4 is FTV yeah - Sky carriage agreement yada yada yada
05:34<stuarta>i think it goes FTA in the next few months
05:35<anykey_>oh, nice to know
05:35<stuarta>don't know when though
05:36<anykey_>First of all I need to get a decent dish
05:36<justinh>itv went FTA, Five are thinking about it. C4 probably will when their Sky carriage wossname runs out
05:37<justinh>anyway been meaning to ask.. is any of the freeview playback stuff possible yet? saw Humax have announced an update to their STBs allowing series link & split recordings :)
05:38<justinh>split recordings meaning 'continued after the news' shows won't be missed if you forget
05:39<stuarta>sounds like "record all showings" with "no dup matching"
05:39<gbee> << maybe not FTA after all, guess I'll have to get that DVB-S card and find out
05:40<gbee>justinh: the freeview playback stuff is all in the wild now, they've been selling 'playback' capable DVRs for a few months
05:41<justinh>bah.. "and an active Sky viewing card". FTV then :(
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05:41<justinh>stuarta: sounds like having to remember to spot it's near a news show
05:43<stuarta>many moons ago i did work out the sql needed to "join" the two bits of program info into a single instance
05:45<gbee>looks like C4 HD will go FTA at the same time as C4, because they are the same channel/content the HD channel is subject to the same agreement with Sky - can't find an original announcement on the subject, just second hand stuff on the DigitalSpy forums
05:46<stuarta>ah there we go. ch4 HD is dvb-s2 mpeg4/HD videoguard encrypted
05:47<justinh>might have a go looking for the freeview playback stuff in the streams myself. naivety being the mother of all keenness etc :)
05:47<stuarta>better bet would be to try and work out the signalling they might be using
05:48<stuarta>might be a simple as using the programid, seriesid stuff in the EIT descriptors
05:48<stuarta>i'm guessing series link is basically if (seriesid == <id>) then record it
05:49<stuarta>using the seriesid data from the EIT feed
05:50<anykey_>hm, dvb-s2, not for myth then
05:51<stuarta>the encryption is more the showstopper
05:51<stuarta>at least ppl are working on dvb-s2
05:52*stuarta notes the EIT monkeys are up to their ususal tricks
05:55<stuarta>the seriesid is changed for the repeat, while keeping the programid
05:59<janneg>and programid is for all episodes the same? that would mean that seriesid is useless for dupe matching
06:00<stuarta>it's a bit all over the place at the moment
06:00<stuarta>very channel dependent
06:01<stuarta>to answer your question, no the programid changes for different episodes
06:05<anykey_>Argh, where is eskil? :(
06:08<janneg>argh, it might be that german tv stations already support TV Anytime
06:09<janneg>but they aren't using DVB SI but MHP to transmit the data
06:09<stuarta>thats kinda what they are rolling out here
06:12<janneg>the mph extension they are using is called mph-pdr. google finds 3 documents. the first seems to be unrelated
06:13<janneg>and the other two wants a password
06:15<janneg>but are also unrelated
06:17<stuarta>from what i've read MHP is basically embedded java
06:17<stuarta>with other stuff around it
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06:20<janneg>I won't touch it
06:20<stuarta>it does look evil
06:29<rooaus>anykey_: I have not seen Eskil in here that I recall, not to say he does not pop in.
06:30<anykey_>rooaus: he somehow seems to be disappeared
06:30<anykey_>no response to emails, no updates to his patch
06:30<anykey_>and it's broken since he forgot some files, I think
06:31<rooaus>probably a users discussion...
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07:05<gbee>anyone know whether all GPUs with opengl support can handle the opengl OSD renderer?
07:07<justinh>dunno, but it's something I wouldn't mind knowing too
07:07<gbee>in particular I need to know whether a system using a "VIA S3 Twister" would have any trouble
07:09<justinh>wouldn't bet my house on it :)
07:12<justinh>opengl in linux is very much a mixed bag from what I know about it (not much I admit). seems that the amount done in hardware & software varies a hell of a lot between GPUs
07:17<justinh>video though, that's essentially just a texture put on a surface, nothing to do with 3d stuff so that probably means it's more likely to be dealt with by the hardware (I'd think)
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07:26<mojito_>00:0a.0 Multimedia controller: Philips Semiconductors SAA7130 Video Broadcast Decoder (rev 01) <-- anyone have one of these tv cards?
07:26<janneg>mojito_: read bthe topic
07:27<janneg>gbee: the S3 will probably not work
07:28<gbee>janneg, justinh: thanks, figured as much
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07:57<clever>justinh: with nvidia xv can be drawn to a texture(which lets compiz mangle it)
07:57<clever>but with ati, compiz cant see the xv and the video doesnt even move with the windows half the time
07:58<Daviey>wtf has compiz got to do with mythtv?
07:58<clever>ive been using compiz on a few of my laptops beside mythtv
07:58<Daviey>clever: what ati driver are you using?
07:58<clever>open source one i beleive
07:58<stuarta>pos that is
07:58<clever>im able to see a clone of the video in alt+tab and many other places
07:58*stuarta uses it
07:58<Daviey>ati + open source + compiz ; yeah alright!
07:59<stuarta>i don't bother with compiz
07:59<clever>bigest problem is the X server loaded the nvidia glx drivers
07:59<clever>01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc Radeon RV250 [Mobility FireGL 9000] (rev 02)
08:00<stuarta>so it loads the nvidia glx drivers? classy.
08:00<clever>if the nvidia is installed it takes prio over the ati ones
08:01<clever>apt-get remove would fix that but then break compiz on the other system
08:03<clever>by giving a 'custom' module path in xorg.conf and using symlinks im able to pick exactly which version of the glx i want
08:05<clever>also needed a LD_PRELOAD to override the 'client' side libGL back to normal
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08:10<rooaus>gbee: You got another beta on the way? 404
08:11<gbee>rooaus: no, must have forgotten to upload the html when I added a version with bugfixes the other day
08:14<gbee>only fixed two small issues, the mythvideo container problem and something else which I can't remember now
08:14<rooaus>trying now...
08:16<rooaus>ok, downloaded 3a now. Thanks :)
08:16<rooaus>new laptop and this has nvidia gpu, much better.
08:16<gbee>haven't done much work on it lately, but I should have more time to get it finished in a week or so
08:17<gbee>rooaus: yeah, I chose my current laptop because it had an Nvidia gpu
08:18<gbee>suprising what a difference the proprietary driver makes to 2D rendering compared to the open source one
08:19<rooaus>yeah you can tell just by logging on
08:23<rooaus>gbee: mmm, should there be scrolling? :D
08:24*rooaus reads commits
08:24<gbee>damnit, did I leave that stop in there?
08:25<gbee>rooaus: no there isn't, I was messing with some ideas for scrolling and stupidly used my dev copy of the theme ;)
08:25<gbee>fixing it now
08:26<justinh>gbee: you seen paulh's post on -users. said he was playing with the new ui code over xmas & had blingy movey things going on
08:27<rooaus>gbee: np, thought that may have been the case but you never know.
08:28<gbee>justinh: yeah movement is part of what mythui offers, just not quite the scrolling effect we want where the text disappears at the left edge and optionally reappears at the right
08:28<gbee>it's straight x,y to x1,y1, to x2,y2 stuff
08:29<justinh>so what you're after would prolly need a virtual container & window effect as I originally suspected
08:29<gbee>rooaus: 3b now uploaded, but you can just delete the textarea from base.xml if you want
08:29<gbee>justinh: yeah I've got an idea what I'll do, just been busy with other things
08:30<rooaus>gbee: I played with that a while ago on my old laptop (ati gpu) a simple 1 pixel at a time move from one side of the screen to the other chewed up 80-90% CPU!
08:31<gbee>rooaus: could be pretty cpu intensive, especially with a 1 pixel per cycle move and if the object is large (larger area to repaint)
08:32*justinh imagines a Skramble game written in qt.. :P
08:34<rooaus>was a little surprised though, I put it down to the ati opengl implementation but I did no other testing. It was not a large area, just a "Hello World" text label.
08:35<justinh>rooaus: even on my nvidia setup G.A.N.T is painfully slow at updating the alphapulse. ok so it's big but that shouldn't be giving a modern system grief
08:36<rooaus>as you said on the ml, (optional) bling is nice... but at the expense of speed, functionality or usability.
08:36<justinh>hate feeling the need to ask this but are the libraries good enough to do nice things on reasonable (i.e. not quad 4Ghz core) machines?
08:36<rooaus>not at*
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08:37<justinh>setups like e3 work well on mid-range ish hardware very well & that's the kind of performance people will expect, for right or for wrong
08:43<gbee>justinh: it's down to the painters and possibly some optimisations could be made to the GL painter, I really don't know
08:44<gbee>I know nothing about opengl at all
08:47<gbee>I'm sure once mythui is the norm that people will start offering patches to improve performance
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09:36<gbee>janneg: patch hasn't fixed the nova-t 500 problems
09:37<gbee>mt2060 I2C write failed (len=6)mt2060 I2C read failed
09:37<gbee>that's with patch, latest source and firmware
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09:40<mattwire>what problems you having with it? I have a nova-t 500 here with no problems on gutsy
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09:44<janneg>mattwire: the disconnect issue
09:45<janneg>gbee: did you had to restart the backend / computer
09:46<gbee>janneg: no, just removed/reinserted the module, could that be it?
09:46<janneg>there was someone on the mailing list who said that he had no disconnects so far but still sees "mt2060 I2C write failed"
09:47<janneg>gbee: I meant after seeing the error
09:47<gbee>I've not been distinguishing between the two issues, could be the disconnects are fixed but the I2C write failed is fatal
09:47<gbee>janneg: yeah have to hard restart to fix
09:48<janneg>gbee: I would cold reboot before reporting errors
09:49<janneg>the patch affects initialization and the card will be partly initialized even after a warm reboot
09:49<janneg>firmware update for example is only needed after cold reboot
09:50<gbee>yeah, didn't think about it
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09:55<gbee>just deleted my network-scripts folder in a moment of frustration, now I can't force urpmi to reinstall the initscripts package :/
10:03<gbee>scripts/route have stopped adding my gateway to the routing table at startup on the backend, can't figure out why
10:03<gbee>might just have to reinstall from scratch for the first time ever with linux
10:08<stuarta>nah, there's always a way out
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10:13<gbee>if I could figure out the problem I'd rather not reinstall, backing up configs etc is a lot of hassle and I always forgot something when doing it on windows
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11:38<Cardoe>anyone know if the issue with mytharchive and mjpegtools-1.9 is resolved?
11:38<Cardoe>something about the PNGs not having the proper "select" highlights.
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12:31<gnome42>Good-day everyone!
12:34<gnome42>janneg: I've been meaning to ask you about your scheduler patch from a while back. The patch attempted to schedule recordings onto the same mux.
12:35<gnome42>Did it yield good results for you? (Worth revisiting?)
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12:57<xris>so who's going to write the itunes video library scraper for mythvideo? ;)
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13:05<okolsi>we would need some general solution and the scripts.. we have in Finland something similar as what the BBC is offering in UK
13:05<okolsi>web site full of TV content.. too bad it's not RSS (only HTML) and it is in Windows Media streaming format :(
13:10<xris>yeah. I know that itunes is web-based stuff, but I think it's some proprietary thing to make sure no one else scrapes it.. if there's a solution, it's probably already out there in some format.
13:10<xris>man, apple tv is looking sexy now.
13:11<okolsi>okay.. that's more complicated then. Our stuff would be very easy to get and parse.. it's not obfuscated or anything
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13:12<okolsi>funny.. the new CEO for the Finnish national TV broadcast company came from..... Microsoft! No wonder they dropped RealAudio streaming support and now only support Windows formats...
13:13<justinh>okolsi: is that the same thing as waking up one morning to discover you're about to be replaced by a pod? ;)
13:13<okolsi>justinh: :-D
13:15<okolsi>I recon not everyone is pleased with the ProjectX and java stuff..
13:16<justinh>I'm with whoever said to fix mythtranscode - stuarta I think. I hate java
13:16<okolsi>well.. thats THE thing I know.. so cannot hate it.
13:17<justinh>not some nasty irrational thing but projectx won't work with just any ole java
13:17<justinh>and sidestepping the problem is.. sidestepping the problem :)
13:18<okolsi>I agree that myth should handle it all.. but there are no-one really developing those things
13:19<justinh>I don't know how to program. it's never stopped me from having a go :)
13:19<justinh>dunno if I'd ever be up to sorting out mythtranscode mind you
13:19<justinh>scary horses
13:20<okolsi>well.. maybe projectx can be tolerated (like external players are for mythvideo) until myth's own things get better
13:47<gbee>two or more of the top technical bods at the BBC are ex-microsoft, so you can probably guess what everyone suggested when the BBC launched a microsoft only solution which also used microsoft DRM etc
13:47<gbee>apparently the BBC actually had their own cross-platform DRM solution, but that was dropped for some reason to use MS codecs/DRM
13:50<gbee>call me paranoid, but if it's an MS guy who is charge of Finnish national TV and some MS guys running technical stuff at the BBC, is this Bill Gates master plan? :p
13:55<okolsi>it must be :)
13:55<janneg>nah, it probably just mean MS is to big
13:56<janneg>gnome42: it didn't worked out and I dropped it
13:56<gnome42>gbee: ... I believe it's Apple who owns the CBC now! :)
13:57<gnome42>gbee: I swear the CBC is doing a non-stop Ipod advert :)
13:59<gnome42>janneg: Oh, ok. I didn't have enough cpu power at that time (for multiple streams) so I wasn't sure how much benefit it was.
14:01<gnome42>janneg: Did you see my exchange with superm1 last night after you went to sleep? Re: releasing updated mythbuntu pkgs early to get more exposure.
14:05<janneg>yeah, no problem. the merge still seems to be smooth
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14:07<gnome42>janneg: ok, good. Yeah, smooth sailing so far :)
14:12<gnome42>janneg: I am just working on preroll seconds <-> livetv interaction now. Currently preroll time will not be honoured if there is a conflicting livetv session active. I think preroll should take precedence over livetv.
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14:19<Cardoe>If you're in the US, do you have to use ProjectX?
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14:26<janneg>gnome42: I'm not sure if Bruce and David would agree
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14:30<gnome42>janneg: Oh, really? It was mainly Bruce I was thinking of. My impression from Bruce was that there wasn't _any_ circumstance in which livetv was more important.
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14:30<gnome42>To quote Bruce: "I believe scheduled recordings are an explicit desire and channel
14:30<gnome42>surfing is farting around. Therefore live TV should never
14:30<gnome42>(exception below) interfere with the schedule especially during
14:30<gnome42>the last few seconds when the user cannot reconsider the
14:33<clever>livetv does ask what you want to do when a scheduled recording comes up
14:33<clever>but ive yet to test to see what happens if i totaly ignore that
14:33<clever>such as having forgoten to shut livetv off
14:34<gnome42>clever: That is an item on my TODO list :)
14:34<clever>also im wondering if theres a simple fix to shut livetv off if you dont touch anything for x hours
14:34<clever>posibly with a countdown on the screen
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14:34<gnome42>clever: In almost all cases it behaves correctly, but I think there are one or two corner cases in which I think need work.
14:35<gnome42>clever: that feature already exists I think ...
14:35<clever>i know of an option to avoid conflicts by picking a card wcich will be unused the longest
14:35<clever>but thats a bit useless when you only have 1 card
14:35<gnome42>one sec ..
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14:51<Cardoe>Take a page out of the cable company's DVRs
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14:51<Cardoe>They'll change the channel on you if you ignore it
14:53<gnome42>clever: It's taken a while but I think I might have found it! :)
14:53<clever>ive managed to read half the code for one of my random errors and so far im stuck at finding av_probe_input_format
14:54<gnome42>clever: I don't think there is a spot to set it in the GUI. You have to add it to the settings table.
14:54<clever>thats easy for me if i knew what it was called
14:54<gnome42>in minutes
14:55<clever>doesnt exist currently
14:55<gnome42>clever: correct, you have to add it. :)
14:56<clever>mysql> insert into settings (value,data,hostname) value ("LiveTVIdleTimeout","45",NULL);
14:56<clever>Query OK, 1 row affected (0.11 sec)
14:56<clever>that should hit all hosts equaly:)
14:57<gnome42>yeah, looks good. Maybe you could set it to a small value and see if it actually works?
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14:58<clever>yeah i can test that later maybe
14:58<clever> QString("NVP: Couldn't find a matching decoder for: %1").
14:58<clever>trying to track down what causes that to run right now
14:58-!-beata-- [] has joined #mythtv
14:58<clever>(in libs/libmythtv/NuppelVideoPlayer.cpp)
14:58<gnome42>clever: can you pastebin more of that log ?
14:59<clever>its scrolled off my screen long ago
14:59<gnome42>ahh, ok
14:59<clever>basicaly i get that error on mpeg2 files from my pvr
14:59<clever>every time i try and play them
14:59<clever>mpeg4 plays fine
14:59<clever>restarting the fe fixes it most of the time
14:59<clever>it seems to only kill mpeg2 files and randomly recovers after a restart
15:01<clever>so far i havent been able to trigger it with my extra VERBOSE lines in the code
15:02<clever>and just1nh claims its my nfsroot setup to blame and refuses to help any
15:03<gbee>clever: I added the livetv timeout feature as a hidden setting a while ago, hidden because Chutt couldn't understand the justification for it
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15:04<clever>ive talked about adding a feature to fix the shows without subtitles
15:04<clever>and just1nh made a big deal out of adding a table OR a setting
15:04<gnome42>I knew I wasn't dreaming of that feature! :)
15:04<clever>'great another setting' /quit
15:05<gbee>it works, I use it on my frontends
15:05<clever>my current test code for fixing unnamed recordings is just scraping the title/subtitle/originalairdate off the programs table at the end of a mythfilldatabase
15:06<clever>i still need a way to apply that into to a recording whenever i need to
15:06<gnome42>gbee: excellent, I guess I should add that setting to my DB :)
15:06<gbee>added it mostly because my relatives never remember to exit livetv when they have finished watching and I didn't want the drives spinning all night/day
15:06<clever>| LiveTVIdleTimeout | 45 | NULL |
15:06<clever>| LiveTVIdleTimeout | 4 | NULL |
15:06<gbee>plus at the time the livetv bugs weren't fixed so it was possible for a single livetv recording to consume all disk space and expire all the recordings
15:06<gnome42>gbee: makes sense to me.
15:06<clever>the settings table seems to lack any key's to prevent duplicates!
15:08<gbee>clever: might be worth a patch (libs/libmythtv/dbcheck.cpp)
15:08<clever>could inc the schema version and add a index
15:08<clever>then get attacked by the people who are against making changes to the db!
15:09<clever>cant even explain the good points to a new table i made:P
15:09<gbee>I'd do it, but if you are interested it's a pretty easy job and a good way to familiarise yourself with that bit of the code
15:09<clever>ive read over how the schema's are updated
15:09<clever>looks a bit crude
15:09<gbee>don't think anyone will object to DB changes and I can't see a downside to that changes
15:09<clever>the overall design of the VERBOSE looks better
15:10<clever>all the VERBOSE and -v flags are added in a single place which patches up both -v and VERBOSE()
15:10<clever>its a single list of all of them
15:10<clever>bit cleaner then an ever growing chain of if's
15:11<gbee>well it's not meant to be ever growing, every now and then it should really be cropped and the old schema changes moved into the initial schema file mc.sql
15:12<clever>the livetvidletimeout is working:D
15:12<clever>its threatning to shut off in 21 sec
15:12<clever>gbee: yeah but what if i take a 0.10 mythtv db and try and run trunk on it?
15:12<gbee>but people will insist on still running 0.14 and then upgrading to 0.21, so to avoid upsetting them it must be possible to upgrade :/
15:12<clever>it may be missing half the schema changes to patch me up
15:13<gbee>clever: there has to be a limit! IMHO anyway
15:13<clever>a bit of a smarter but more complex way
15:13<clever>is to peek at the existing structure
15:13<clever>and apply any changes to columns which dont match an internal view
15:13<clever>and create missing tables
15:13<clever>posibly getting rid of the whole need for mc.sql
15:16<clever>but then it may undo small test changes you add to your db yourself
15:22<clever> select ((a.filesize*8)/(max(b.mark)/2))/1024 as bitrate,a.filesize/1024/1024 as size,max(b.mark)/2 as lenght,a.starttime,concat(a.title,", ",a.subtitle) from recorded as a,recordedseek as b where a.chanid=b.chanid and a.starttime=b.starttime and b.type=6 and recgroup!='deleted' group by a.chanid,starttime order by starttime;
15:22<janneg>gbee: the initial schema is also in dbcheck.cpp
15:23<clever>that insanely fun query gets the bitrate for all pvr150 recordings
15:23<clever>2 problems ive come across
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15:23<gbee>janneg: yeah, remembered wrong, there isn't any schema stuff in mc.sql, just the commands to create the actual database
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15:23<clever>the mark in the recordedseek normaly appears to be a second offset in the file but its double that for my pvr card(which is why i have the /2's)
15:24<gbee>just been a very long time since I setup myth ;)
15:24<clever>and the recordedseek is empty for transcoded stuff so i cant see how fat they may have gotten
15:24<gbee>clever: pay attention to the type column, we use two different methods for seek tables
15:25<clever>im using a where clause on the type to get only the pvr150 entrys which are doubled
15:25<clever>if i want to see my nuv recordings i beleive i remove the /2's and type=7
15:25<clever>but that breaks it into 2 diff querys which only get 66.6% of the recordings
15:26<clever>what would the 'proper' way to get the filesize in seconds be?
15:27-!-NightMonkey [n=NightMon@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/NightMonkey] has joined #mythtv
15:27<clever>i think mythtranscode puts the seektable right into the file itself
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15:42<stuarta>evening everyone.
15:44<stuarta>another can of worms opened then
15:44<stuarta>project-x support for mythtranscode :)
15:44<gbee>one step forward, two ...
15:44<stuarta>and 16 sideways
15:45<laga>it's just an innocent shell script ;)
15:45<stuarta>like the bloke who played for the USA in the last rugby world cup
15:45<laga>was he POSIX compliant?
15:46*laga crawls back under his rock
15:46<stuarta>well he ran in the right direction until someone came withing 10m of him
15:46<stuarta>then ran away from everyone and everything (including the goal line) just so he wouldn't get tackled
15:47<laga>nice :)
15:47<stuarta>he clearly cared more about his place on the track team than playing for the national side
15:48<stuarta>cause, damn he was fast in a straight line
15:49*stuarta raises an eyebrow to the *wontfix* on 4476
15:49<justinh>clever: it's not that I flat out refuse to help you with your weird frontend problems. that's just it - they're weird problems which 99.999999% of users will never encounter because you're always an extreme edge case IMHO ;)
15:49<gbee>the problem with these changes is that once they are made, they'll never be undone even if they are just temporary hacks because it was easier than fixing the broken component (mythtranscode)
15:50<clever>could just be a lack of bug reporting by users who fix it the windows way(reboot)
15:50<justinh>as for the idea about keeping a log of everything you could possibly ever want to record... less said about that the better IMHO. not saying I'm right & you're wrong, just that I don't like the idea. For all that matters in the scheme of things here, which isn't much I reckon
15:51<clever>also from what i heard with xris
15:51<clever>it may be against the contract to log old data
15:51<janneg>stuarta: my original patches are just hacks and I was debating whether "invalid" or "wontfix" was the correct resolution
15:51<clever>something about not being able to keep data about past showings of things
15:51<stuarta>janneg: i think you should say that then.
15:51<justinh>clever: probably true in the case of SD for sure
15:52<clever>if my allshows table did make it into trunk mythtv may get shutdown:P
15:52<xris>stupid irc client keeps failing to display this channel
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15:52<clever>but thenagain mythtv is allready recording past data it gets from sd
15:52<stuarta>it gives the impression you've closed it with extreme predudice for no real reason
15:52<gbee>impressively the "one step forward, two steps backward" was before I read okolsi 's mailing list post describing it as a step forward ;)
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15:53<justinh>clever: but maybe there'd be a compromise somehow - like don't keep _everything_
15:53<stuarta>gbee: it's beginning to look like everyone dancing about the handbag
15:53<janneg>I was a little bit mad because of the patch description and thought it was nicer saying nothing than what I had on my mind
15:54<clever>justinh: the problem with the current method is that i can only fix the subtitle
15:54<clever>and im sorting shows by the originalairdate which i need mysql access to fix
15:54<justinh>we can't even use originalairdate AFAIK, so that doesn't count here
15:54<clever>and to get both i need to go over a wiki page or some other site to get the info
15:55<justinh>(in the UK with our grabber I mean)
15:55<clever>for SD its acurate on nearly everything that has a subtitle or meaningfull description
15:55<clever>for all else its the first airdate of the show most of the time
15:55<justinh>we only get what's shown in the RadioTimes magazine listings
15:56<justinh>and I think that's fair enough. I mean most people won't give a toss if a show was first aired in 1963
15:56<clever>a problem i had
15:56<clever>is that 2 channels where airing diff seasons of the same show
15:56<clever>so when sorted by starttime the seasons became interleaved
15:57<justinh>might be a nice feature though - don't record anything that was first shown before last year :)
15:57<clever>by sorting by originalairdate i fixed that
15:58<clever>but the column is missing on show shows and it may be posible to scrape that out of the program table and reuse it later
16:07<gbee>we get original air dates, or years at least, for films which is pretty handy
16:08<gbee>useful to know whether it's the remake or the 1934 version ;)
16:08<stuarta>the EIT data is getting better in that respect
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16:12<gbee>just had to deal with a phone call from a family friend, I've somehow become their first call for IT support and it's starting to get irritating
16:12<stuarta>that's why i don't do windoze :)
16:13<gbee>last time I only went round there because it was suggested they'd make it worth my while .... a cup of tea and a tenner to wrestle with Windows for 3 hours wasn't worth my while
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16:15<gbee>I'm really can't believe that anyone finds Windows easier than linux anymore, the problem I fixed there was that Windows insisted on using their signed driver for the wireless nic despite the fact that it didn't actually work, persuading it to use the manufacturers driver (and not to replace it when windows update ran) proved difficult
16:17<stuarta>you should start asking for a case of beer per call/visit
16:21<clever>my dad still refuses to use the guide in mythtv
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16:21<clever>even though the guide in the dct2000 is 100 times slower
16:22<justinh>yay for digital cables boxes! if it wasn't for them we'd have no myth in the 1st place :)
16:23<clever>so far about all he has managed to learn on myth is how to exit it and reboot
16:24<stuarta>could take a while then
16:24<clever>mainly because i have frontends on every system
16:24<clever>and he sometimes wants them back
16:26<clever>thats new
16:27<clever>| chanid | starttime | inserttime | type | cmds | flags | status | hostname | comment |
16:28<clever>| 1045 | 2008-01-14 22:00:00 | 2008-01-15 13:53:10 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 304 | media | YPE; |
16:28<justinh>with our cable box we're lucky if the epg even has data let alone is up to date
16:28<clever>garbage in the comment field of a crashed transcode
16:29<clever>and the mythbackend+transcode crashed!
16:29<clever>seems to be spiting out garbage
16:30<clever>the QString("..").arg things arent even working right
16:31<justinh>must be going some for those to go wrong
16:31<clever>it might have been the make install i recently did
16:31<clever>normaly that causes everyting to die with a bus error
16:32<justinh>make install while myth is running.. oops :)
16:32<clever>ive edited the config on 1 system to delete the lib's before copying
16:32<clever>so the myth doesnt die
16:32<clever>but it doesnt work the same way over nfs
16:33<clever>if i delete an open file the server/client cant keep track of which version of it to share out to who like the kernel can do localy
16:33<justinh>I'm not going to say it again
16:33<clever>i know this probly is probly nfs's fault
16:34<clever>but the decoder error doesnt seem like it
16:35<clever>it seems like the av codec lib handles the mpeg2 files and fails to identify the codec some of the time
16:35<clever>the nuppel decoder still manages to handle the mpeg4 without trouble in those cases
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16:48<laga>clever: are you using nfs-user-server?
16:48<laga>just wondering :)
16:48<clever>my nfsroot systems refuse to mount under the user server
16:49<clever>a few systems are still using the user server but they arent serving recordings or lib's
16:49<justinh>haha didn't realise there even was a user server
16:49<clever>laga: you know of any way to do uid maping with the kernel server?
16:49<laga>same here, client wants nfs version 3 while the user server only does version 2. which sucks for mythtv anyways
16:49<laga>clever: no :/
16:49<clever>laga: some of my uid's dont match up between systems and the kernel server has half broken them
16:49<laga>maybe nfs version 4 can help you
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16:51<clever>i'll just change the uid's up to sync them between all systems
16:51<clever>uid=119(mythtv) gid=119(mythtv) groups=24(cdrom),29(audio),44(video),46(plugdev),119(mythtv)
16:51<clever>uid=119(mythtv) gid=1001(mythtv) groups=20(dialout),24(cdrom),25(floppy),26(tape),29(audio),30(dip),46(plugdev),104(scanner),119(fuse),1001(mythtv)
16:51<laga>find has got an option to search for uids so you can fix them more easily
16:52<clever>dont forget gid's though!
16:52<clever>and then theres the problem that 119 may be used by soemthing else allready
16:52<clever>like that:P
16:52<gbee>if anyone knows where/how I could increase the voume gain for video playback I'll owe them a beer
16:52<clever>cant make 119=mythtv @media because its in use
16:52*stuarta suffers id overload
16:53<laga>stuarta: better than having an id crisis
16:53<clever>and i cant make 1001=mythtv @theP4 because its in use
16:53<clever>so id have to change the gid of it on both client and server
16:53<gbee>even with the alsa mixer at max I'm getting a pitifully low volume out of these unamplified speakers
16:53*stuarta chuckles
16:53<janneg>gbee: ac3 audio?
16:54<clever>gbee: mplayer has a software volume control which eats cpu and can boost the volume up arround 10000% i think
16:54<justinh>gbee: JACK & a complimiter plugin doobry or so. never got that to work though
16:54<clever>ive used it on a few stargate dvd's which have pitifull volume even on plain cable
16:54<gbee>clever: well gives me a place to borrow code from, though no immediate use for my frontend
16:55<clever>it can get speaker busting volume out of my laptop with little trouble
16:55<clever>gbee: i suspect its just a soundbyte=soundbyte*x; within the audio decoding loop
16:55<kormoc>not quite that simple...
16:55<clever>applied to every sample in the data once its decoded to a wave level
16:56<clever>kormoc: maybe you could point us in the right direction?
16:56<kormoc>if you multiply the sound wave, you'll get a non-uniform increase
16:57<clever>use a friend of log()?
16:57<kormoc>the peaks will sound much louder then the valleys will, as they increased much more
16:57<kormoc>I don't know the formula myself, but it's wacky and complicated to do all the correction to make it sound the same but louder
16:57<justinh>in effect you;d be doubling its dynamic range :)
16:58<justinh>kormoc: borrow from a complimiter plugin in LADSPA
16:58<clever>kormoc: i also suspect that the bit count for each sample limits how loud you can actualy make it before you start cliping the top of the waveform off
16:58<justinh>something I've secretly hoped for, for ages, a volume maximiser/limiter built into the player. way over my head though
16:58<gbee>would be easier just to buy some new speakers I suspect, but the last set I bought have remained in their box because of an Alsa USB audio bug (which won't ever get fixed because they've only got one developer)
16:59<justinh>and I suspect it'd not be easy to code so I've not even hinted at it
17:00<clever>gbee: the unpowered speakers i found and stuck on my media pc can go pretty loud
17:00<gbee>the mere thought of a complicated formula has given me a headache
17:00<clever>gbee: and sound better then the laptop speakers i have in a few systems
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17:01<justinh>gbee: needs integration & stuff. not as complex as perceptual audio encoding by a long way but still hard sums ;)
17:05<kormoc>that has some formulas for determining volume, but nothing on changing it
17:06<stuarta>doesn't volume++ work?
17:06<kormoc>stuarta, when ++ is overloaded, sure!
17:06<justinh>stuarta: there's no gainup in mythtv's player. maximum is no attenuation AFAIK
17:07*stuarta implements make_louder(volume)
17:07<clever>also for ac3 type stuff its not even decoded in myth
17:07<stuarta>yah, that would be a bitch
17:07<clever>its just fed untouched to the external device
17:07<justinh>unless you use the multichannel audio decoder thingy eh
17:07<stuarta>decode, adjust volume, re-encode and feed out with bugger all delay
17:08<stuarta>hard job
17:08<justinh>all while playing h.264 AVC 1080p.. mmmm
17:09<clever>stuarta: if your decoding and mangling then theres no point to reencoded back to ac3 realy
17:09<kormoc>time to write a distributed mythfrontend. Computer 1 processes the video, computer 2 processes the audio
17:09<clever>just output it in analog
17:09<justinh>since I killed off my cable input from my STB I've not had to reach for the vol control for ad breaks actually
17:09<stuarta>clever: now there's a cunning plan
17:09<clever>stuarta: a better way is to have a way to tell the external ac3 decoder what volume to be at
17:09<briand>for my MP3 files, I use a program called mp3gain that will set an entire directory's worth of mp3 files to an 'equalized' volume setting. I run that on the file(s) before importing it (them) into myth
17:10<kormoc>clever, the mangling isn't nearly as bad as analog would be. It's a digital change
17:10<clever>stuarta: then the volume boosting can be done at the very end of the digital chain by the analog amps in your stereo
17:10<stuarta>AC3 is 5.1 isn't it?
17:10<justinh>better to normalise at source rather than reencode though
17:10<justinh>stuarta: AC3 is just a format. can be 2ch too
17:10<kormoc>briand, I thought all that does is set the gain id3 header info, not actually modify the sound?
17:10<clever>but if your getting the ac3 right off a digital feed you would need to reencoded to normalise
17:10<stuarta>the commonly used format is what however?
17:11<justinh>stuarta: 2ch or 5.1 generally
17:11<justinh>DVD can have AC3 stereo or 5.1, as can DVB IME
17:12<kormoc>briand, Aye, it does what I thought it does, "MP3Gain stores "Analysis" and "Undo" information in special tags inside the mp3 file itself."
17:12<clever>best place to boost the quality id think is within the analog amps
17:12<justinh>I think DTS is a fixed format though
17:12<briand>kormoc: exactly.. the gain id3 (and other, related) header info.. I was trying to avoid turning up the (myth) system for a specific song, only to be blasted away by the one that follows it. it allows me to keep the same relative volume on my home theater system, without the widely divergent volumes on the mp3 files...
17:12<justinh>briand: oh so it didn't re-encode them. didn't know about that tag field
17:12<kormoc>Can the mpeg container format hold said tag? That would be slick
17:12<briand>if the initial sampling (and then encoding into mp3) was poor (clipping, low quality, etc), this program wouldn't help...
17:13<briand>it does analyze the audio content, to assure it won't cause clipping by over-increasing the level.
17:14<briand>, it'll preserve dynamic range by not getting confused about (for instance) a heavy-metal song with a soft, acoustic intro...
17:14<briand>but, as kormoc has verified, it doesn't actually re-encode anything... merely analyzes what's there.
17:15<briand>what I like about it is that it'll "normalize" the volume(s) across an entire directory full of files... so they're all at the same relative level....
17:15<clever>what program does that?
17:16<briand>it runs relatively quickly on my (3.2GHz) system... probably takes about 5-10 seconds per average mp3 file
17:16<kormoc>iTunes has something like that built in. Takes about 2 seconds per song on my macbook
17:17<clever>i also need to find all my duplicates
17:17<briand>what a lot of the "mp3 sites" do is crank that setting all the way up, so the files sound good on cheap, tinny earpods... but kinda sounds crappy on big living room stereo speakers...
17:18<dekar1>hmm, was'nt mp3gain the program that changes the gain in the mpeg frames without reencoding but without some strange id3 tag? /me wanders off to find some tech docs on mp3gain
17:18-!-dekar1 is now known as dekarl
17:18<clever>one of my problems here
17:18<kormoc>dekar1, aye,
17:18<briand>dekarl: it's a documented id3 tag, but yes.
17:18<clever>if i fix up the id3 tags on 1 file
17:19<clever>its nolonger a binary duplicate of the 50 others i have laying arround
17:19<clever>so finding and removing the dup's becomes more complex
17:19*kormoc points at musicbrainz
17:20*dekarl claps, kormoc I was about to do the same
17:20<clever>kormoc: yeah im using picard to fix the tags on some
17:20<briand>i keep getting pointed to musicbrainz, but haven't checked it out, yet...
17:20<clever>but it doesnt actualy help with identical files
17:20<dekarl>It will fix wrong tags and give you beefy tags for cd ripping, too
17:21<kormoc>clever, mine is setup to auto move them, and thus I have song.mp3 song.1.mp3 song.2.mp3
17:21<kormoc>easy enough to grep for
17:21<clever>kormoc: yeah , but i still need to find and remove those
17:21<clever>might help if it pointed out exact duplicates before sticking them together
17:21<clever>and some files it identifies wrongly
17:22<briand>what happens if the musicbrainz tags aren't set up "properly" according to my tastes and/or sensibilities? (I've come across several Beatles mp3 files with the genre tagged as "Blues" ????)
17:22<clever>also the picard on my 6.07 where all the music is stored is broken
17:22<dekarl>hmm, import the puid from the tags into the database and then some select magicery on count(puid) might help lots
17:22<clever>so i have to scan&tag over nfs from a 7.04 system
17:22<dekarl>briand: musicbrainz does not do genres (yet) as they are subjective at best
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17:24<clever>26gig in my /media/mainlv/music/ folder
17:24<gbee>interesting, but no good for my mp3 which is embedded in an mpeg2 transport stream
17:24<clever>900mb in the folders i set aside for exact filename duplicates
17:25<gbee>actually it varies between mp2 and mp3, mostly mp2 if I think about it
17:25<dekarl>hmm, music videos.. you could still write a small plugin that allows you to analyze and rename in picard. but integrating it into mythmusic+video would be lots fancier
17:26<briand>gbee: mpeg _usually_ contains mp2 audio, yes...
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17:26<briand>clever: you're not even close! ;) I've got 15,786 mp3 files already cataloged and online in my mythtv system... and that's only a (small) fraction of 'em!
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17:27<clever> find tagged/ -type f|wc -l
17:27<gbee>well it's both generally for freeview, but the primary audio is usually mp2 (mp3 examples exist and may even be the norm for some channels), the secondary audio is almost always mp3
17:27<clever>^^^ files tagged by picard so far
17:27<briand>I've got (nearly) every song that was on the Hot 100 Billboard charts, from 1955-present (where present = approx. 2000)
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17:27<briand>...which is considerably more than 15K of them!
17:28<clever>i found a cache of 20gig on a 'new' harddrive which is now part of my myth system
17:28<clever>mostly games videos and music
17:28<clever>and a large pile of snes roms
17:28<clever>some of the mp3's i do own
17:28<briand>ask gbee how loud I screamed when the import method changed in myth several months ago, and all my mp3 files "disappeared"!
17:29<clever>lets just not mention what % :P
17:29<clever>sudo apt-get install picard
17:29<briand>anyway.. i need to head back into the office to do a software upgrade on our live database system. good chatting with you all (however briefly)
17:30<briand>clever: thanks.. will definitely look into it. :)
17:30*dekarl has tagged 6.5k with picard and likes the tags (with the exception of "year" which is not the original track release year for "best of" samplers)
17:31<clever>and im still waiting to see how much work it would be to do overlaping recordings on the same channel
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17:33<justinh>gbee: I thought freeview's 2ndary audio is the same format as the primary except it's mono
17:33<gbee>justinh: not according to ffmpeg
17:34<justinh>according to ffmpeg here, Casualty is Stream #0.1[0x259](eng): Audio: mp2, 48000 Hz, stereo, 256 kb/s Stream #0.2[0x25a](eng): Audio: mp2, 48000 Hz, mono, 64 kb/s
17:34<gbee>which could be mistaken and exposing my lack of knowledge on this subject
17:34<justinh>some players say it's mp3 format IIRC
17:35<justinh>def. should be mpeg1 layer2
17:35<mattwire>wouldn't surprise me if software gets confused with the secondary audio track
17:35<mattwire>because it's not meant to be used without processing
17:36<justinh>temped to set up a user job to strip the extra audio just to get the space back
17:36<mattwire>3 is a control track while 4 is the audio description
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17:36<janneg>stuarta: I got someone interested in dumping EIT so that fixups can be tested with an external program
17:36<mattwire>you buy a bit of hardware for your stb which uses the control track to mix 4 in and out of the main audio
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17:37<justinh>they're talking about radio with subtitles now. I can't believe how mad it's gone
17:37<gbee>mattwire: thanks, always wondered about that
17:38<gbee>radio with subtitles? err
17:38<justinh>and radio with pictures. I'm serious
17:39<justinh>radio with pictures. oh hang on.. isn't that already.....
17:39<gbee>justinh: looking again the 'mp3' tracks don't have bitrate, channel information etc, so it's probably just confusing an empty placeholder stream
17:40<gbee> Stream #0.0[0x191]: Video: mpeg2video, yuv420p, 720x576, 15000 kb/s, 25.00 fps(r) Stream #0.1[0x192](eng): Audio: mp2, 48000 Hz, stereo, 192 kb/s Stream #0.2[0x193](eng): Subtitle: dvbsub Stream #0.3[0x194](eng): Audio: mp3
17:40<justinh>those AD tracks gave my epia's xvmc (or alsa, I never worked it out) a headache
17:41<gbee>could have sworn that I was looking at a couple with a primary audio which was reported as mp3 the other night
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17:41<justinh>gbee: mp3 isn't even in the DVB spec AFAIK so not very likely to be legit
17:42<gbee>yeah, just my ignorance on the subject
17:42<stuarta>they can put whatever the f"$^% they want in there
17:42<stuarta>provided they announce it
17:42<stuarta>generally however, it's mp2 or ac3
17:42<justinh>maybe they've been messing it up then. AFAIK it's only sposed to be mp2 in the UK
17:43<stuarta>that mp3 track
17:43<stuarta>is one of those things that don't get detected correctly
17:44<stuarta>i suspect it's not even in the broadcast stream
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17:55<clever>mouse is acting up again
17:55<clever>cant even alt+tab
17:58<justinh>wow. now there's some menus I've never been in before. priority settings.. erm.. gee. everything's just about covered
17:59<justinh>default record once priority etc.. _well_ nifty!
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20:08<jj_>does anyone know if Radeon all-in-wonder cards can work with mythtv?
20:08*justinh points at the channel topic
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23:12<clever>the keyboard not working error ive been randomly getting in qt widgets has spread
23:12<clever>its now affecting openoffice also
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---Logclosed Wed Jan 16 00:00:46 2008