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#mythtv IRC Logs for 2008-01-26

---Logopened Sat Jan 26 00:00:25 2008
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00:56<weazahl>is there a way to set priority on which backend to use? myth likes to flag on my slowest machine that is connected wirelessly
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01:05<Captain_Murdoch>weazahl: that's a #mythtv-users question.
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04:27<confuzed_>Anyone object to my asking a question in this channel... mythtv-users is dead and I am running SVN so it might be development related ;-)
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04:30<confuzed_> I have a strange issue with my box that I have had since .20.fixes (currently on SVN). Whenever I fast forward a recording it will not let me go faster than 3X for about 10 seconds... I can press the button 2+ times, but it stays at 3x until that 10 seconds passes then jumps to 5x
04:30<confuzed_>rewind seems to work great... as responsive as one would expect... if I hit rewind twice, it jumps straight to 5x.
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04:37<confuzed_>It appears that the issue is with ffmpeg. If I switch to libmpeg2 then it is responsive, but not stable (stops drawing after a few seconds, which is a known issue).
04:39<confuzed_>XVMC works great... but of course the OSD is B&W
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05:19<justinh>superm1: yeah 9 recordings. didn't stop there. had 10 going simultaneously from one tuner. a few of them were radio though but that's more due the muxes round here only carrying 5 or 6 TV channels
05:19<superm1>"only 5 or 6"
05:19<superm1>i wish we could have so much luck in the US
05:20<justinh>might wax another 20 GBP on an additional tuner today
05:21<johnp_>justinh:how many have you got ?
05:22<justinh>3 in my production system. tempted to put trunk on there but WAF is currently +++++
05:22<justinh>1 in my dev box
05:23<justinh>problem is, the production backend is so busy all the time. I'm tempted so much because then I can pad my wife's recordings much more.. we can't have her missing even 2 seconds of Emmerdale or there'll be hell to pay
05:24<johnp_>don't think I ever need to go above three in my production box. (got 4) But I understand about Emmerdale (cough).
05:30<justinh>silly me went looking in the database to hike up the max recordings limit last night. just assumed it'd be a 'maxrecordings' column or somesuch
05:32<justinh>part of the reason I got the dev box up with dvb again is so I can doc input groups etc in the wiki. but with one tuner I'm struggling to see what they're all about ;)
05:32<justinh>what are input groups all about?
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05:41<roothorick>what's the plugin that adds the DVD icon to Myth?
05:44<justinh>roothorick: topic!
05:52<roothorick>everyone else does it the other way around :/ gets me confused
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06:00*laga doesn't see why the devs should flock in #mythtv-users
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06:07<okolsi>interesting.. if you are quick, you can try to select program to watch before it is actually ready or available
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06:08<okolsi>it sort of appears maybe 5sec too early to the list of recordings
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06:17<okolsi>I'll put some details to a ticket
06:21<justinh>need to create a ticket for dvb-t scanning
06:26<okolsi>#4536 can increase your bloodpressure if it happens with important recording :)
06:31<gbee>damn, paypal's commission on business acounts is pretty steep :(
06:32<justinh>increased the tuning timeout & full scan finds channels. I really think the default should be increased
06:34<justinh>sorry I meant "I REALLY think the default tuning timeout should be increased - if only for scanning"
06:35<justinh>IIRC from last night the full tuned scan has an ingore timeouts option the ordinary full scan seems to be missing
06:36<justinh>heh. bug in 'delete channels'. won't work if you're using a mouse
06:37<justinh>wonder if the ignore timeouts thing is missing cos I'm running mythtv-setup at -geometry 800x600
06:39<justinh>just had the dog out for a walk. we passed a Virgin Media cable guy messing with a street cabinet. I had to stop Rory weeing on the guy
06:39<justinh>good thing I was looking
06:41<justinh>nope, it's still missing the 'ignore signal timeout' option
06:43<justinh>but besides, a full scan of existing muxes after doing a tuned scan on the bbc mux doesn't need that ticked anyway. que?!
06:44<justinh>I have log. I'll post it up
06:53<justinh>also, the popup for scanning isn't anywhere near big enough IMHO
06:54<justinh>right now it seems about 150x250 pixels
06:54<janneg>justinh: there is no max recordings column, the recorders are explicitly created, but changing the settings spinbox to allow more 5 is easy
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06:55<justinh>janneg: yeah I found that I had to change the spinbox in videosource.cpp
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06:56<justinh>it's clever stuff, that multirec. very well thought out
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06:56<clever>what is?:P
06:57<justinh>oh yeah that's right. it can't be anything to do with clever. it just works
06:58*justinh beers everybody
06:58<justinh>ugh. scanning segfault
06:59<justinh>think I'll have to be a good boy & get a backtrace. some I could let go by putting it down to me doing something arse but not mythtv-setup
07:00<gbee>okolsi: the bug you are seeing with watch recordings is my fault, I was talking about it here just the other day
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08:15<justinh> is how the full scan looks here
08:16<justinh>whoah but not this time. what?
08:16<justinh>run it at 800x600 & it looks like it should
08:20<justinh>typical. run the scanner with debugging & all is well
08:21<justinh>ooo. or not!
08:23<justinh>is this any use?
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08:51<janneg>justinh: no, it's incomplte, probable copy and paste error
08:54<justinh>that's all I had in gdb.txt
08:56<justinh>oh wait wait wait
08:57<gbee> << haha
08:59*justinh chuckles
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09:02<justinh>doh now I know what I did. tail -f != cat
09:03<justinh>not fit for purpose today
09:04<janneg>interesting, it's failing on VERBOSE
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10:04<justinh>heh that must be a new one
10:05<justinh>scanning didn't fail that time either. weirdness
10:16<MrGandalf>janneg: I suspect that cleanup patch you added to signal monitor may be deleting the signal monitor too early
10:16<MrGandalf>janneg: I'm planning on testing that today
10:17<janneg>it can't delete it too early, only too late is possible
10:17<MrGandalf>I had the backend segfault on me twice the other day while reading the rotor value until I removed that patch
10:19<MrGandalf>I should have kept the bt but I didn't.. but it's easily reproducable
10:19<janneg>which one? the deleteLater()
10:20<MrGandalf>it looks like the signal monitor was getting deleted well before tuning ended
10:20<janneg>but it can't be deleted earlier as without the patch
10:21<MrGandalf>I'll test it today and generate a bt
10:22<MrGandalf>it seemed as if the signalmonitor was getting wiped and before the patch it never got deleted as it should so that's why we never saw it
10:28<gbee>janneg: is there any debugging you need me to do to help find the problem with that driver patch?
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11:02<MrGandalf>janneg: ticket 4529, a more generic way to implement that I thought might be to add a IgnoreFlags() which would keep track of all flags we wish to ignore and call RemoveFlags() on those that already exist.
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11:16<trisooma>hi, can I use current SVN frontend to connect to an existing 0.20.2 backend?
11:16<trisooma>-- taken from trunk
11:17<trisooma>is the new db schema backwards compatible
11:17<laga>and no
11:17<trisooma>thx, will install a new stand-alone version then
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12:21<trisooma>hi, does the SVN trunk use qt4 now, or is it being ported from qt3.3 still
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12:22<ma9mwah>i think you would need the mythtv-qt4 branch to try out qt4, im pretty sure trunk is still 3
12:23<trisooma>kk, will stick with qt3.3
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12:31<okolsi>gbee: okay.. I sometimes miss scrollback buffers.. didn't see that earlier discussion..
12:31<okolsi>gbee: not that big deal, but thought to create the ticket
12:31<gbee>np, I was hoping someone else might want to fix it anyway
12:32<okolsi>can't wait to test the new DVB-subtitles support with MythArchive.. but sauna first :)
12:32<gbee>there are actually two bugs, one is that we don't update the filesize column in the database early enough, the second that we don't refresh the program information once it's already loaded
12:33<okolsi>gotta go..
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14:12<johnp_>gbee: Just retried my icon download "problem" and it appears to have cured it's self. so since I can't reproduce it anymore, I'm going to leave it. (for now)
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15:30<xris>anyone here play with looks like yet another cool thing to someday get integrated with myth. heh.
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15:40<MrGandalf>gnome42: hate to say but that patch doesn't fix my problem
15:56<gnome42>MrGandalf: oh heya, that was the chanbase init patch?
15:57<MrGandalf>hrm.. downloading icons.. 3095.. I really need to clean out my channels one of these days
15:57<MrGandalf>gnome42: yeah
15:57<MrGandalf>In fact, I've founds flaws with both those loops used to find duplicates
15:58<MrGandalf>they seems to check two things, channum == channum and callsign == callsign. They needs to be combined to channum == channum AND callsign == callsign
15:59<gnome42>MrGandalf: Oh I see, that problem. I'm not going to enter that discussion with you, some think it's a bug some a feature. :)
16:00<gnome42>my patch was aimed at something else. Mainly tune the requested channel if possible.
16:00<justinh>xris: looks interesting but can't help wondering "how much when it gets big?". cynical as ever
16:00<MrGandalf>I believe xris was correct and that duplicates have always been handled with callsign and channum
16:20<gnome42>MrGandalf: yeah, I dunno what's right or wrong. Just that I'm not interested in spending time on it. If a decision/consensus is reached and the code is not in line, I would be interested in addressing that.
16:21<MrGandalf>damn mythsocket
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17:01<xris>justinh: it's ad-supported... "limited commercial interruption"..
17:02<xris>you get to watch tv shows with one or two commercials in them, rather than a bunch. maybe 30-45 seconds per half hour, instead of 6-8 minutes per half hour
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18:40<gbee>8 recordings tonight across both tuners and I haven't lost a single one
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18:55<justinh>xris: ahh :) and I guess they can be much more targeted ads too - possibly less of an annoyance
18:56<xris>maybe one or two ads for a whole show
18:56<xris>one at the beginning, sometimes one in the middle..
18:56<xris>can't ff/pause the ads, but can ff/pause the shows as you watch, etc.
18:56<xris>pretty cool service
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18:56<justinh>so now all I need is uncapped broadband, not this useless 'unlimited but btw there are limits' stuff
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19:02<gbee>so it's completely free, just ads?
19:04<gbee>I could see it being useful, if for whatever reason I've missed an episode or the start of a series, wouldn't chose to watch all my TV that way but if it lives up to the promise it's a great service
19:05<justinh>heh if it's good enough quality, reliable & all that jazz... not sure if I could get away with everything I watch being downloaded on my broadband limit though
19:05<laga>justinh: maybe you need to lock down that mythweb install of yours then ;))
19:06<justinh>duh.. I think the penny has just dropped.. are those the guys who were on the dev list the other day?
19:07<laga>justinh: btw, i used mythappearance (pre-mythui) today to adjust mythtv on my old tv set. works great and saved me lots of time, thanks
19:07<justinh>laga: yeah yeah. you're welcome to watch all the soaps you want
19:07<laga>justinh: yay
19:07<justinh>laga: I know what a game of luck the old way was ;)
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19:08<justinh>I think I'd wanted to change that since the 1st time I ever used it. hope the next thing doesn't take that long to come about :P
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19:08<laga>justinh: it would be cool if you could see a bar all along the sides of the screen to account for tubes which are not perfectly flat
19:08<gbee>justinh: doubt the quality is going to be comparable to a high rate DVB channel, but probably similar to the BBC iPlayer (ie good in a small window, not so hot fullscreen)
19:09<laga>right now, the perfect setting for me is when i almost can't see the arrows
19:09<justinh>laga: I don't know what you mean
19:09<laga>which works for me :)
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19:09<laga>justinh: i'll just grab a picture for you tomorrow
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19:09<justinh>laga: I considered putting a background element in, with a testcard as the image :)
19:09<gbee>justinh: rounded screen edges, where anything in the corners disappears long before you've matched up the edges of the video with the screen edge
19:10<justinh>hahahaha. sorry
19:10<justinh>the goldfish bowls of yore. those were the days eh
19:11<gbee>laga: you should just be able to swap the arrow images in the theme for something bigger
19:11<justinh>very good point that actually. there's no reason the arrow images can't be extended
19:11<laga>not necessarily rounded screen edges. you also get that problem because the geometry is never 100% right on CRT sets
19:11<laga>i hope i can get a new set in a few months
19:12<justinh>actually maybe just an xml change will be needed. shove a <staticsize> in there. I think that'll even be ok with the dimension calculations too because of the way it gets the image sizes
19:12<laga>(which also means upgrading the VGA card which also means upgrading the mainboard. bah. getting off-topic here ;))
19:12<justinh>I topped the movement amount out at 25% too IIRC. maybe that should change
19:13<gbee>justinh: I'd double check that now that it's mythui (should be the same, but you never know)
19:13<gbee>justinh: 25% should be enough, surely?
19:13<justinh>but hell, if 25% isn't enough to compensate for overscan I'd advocate buying a new set anyway
19:14<justinh>come to think about it... how much overscan would a nvidia tvout give you at maximum?
19:15<gbee>I don't see mythappearance as being the main solution for overscan, it should probably be sorted in the driver first if possible
19:15<justinh>be cool to have a hook into tvout overscan controls though
19:15<laga>justinh: yup
19:16<laga>gbee: depends. i'Ve heard that you'llg et best picture quality if overscan is set to maximum on nvidia cards
19:16<laga>also, you do want overscan for tv playback
19:16<laga>at least i do :)
19:18<justinh>laga: problem with some tvout encoders is the pixels are the wrong shape. you can hack that in the intel driver, X & Y scaling :) and presumably in nvidia too - xbmc does it AFAIK. they have a geometry widget you adjust to make a square perfect
19:19<laga>my next tv set won't need a TV-out encoder :)
19:19<justinh>have you never used xbmc? has some nifty features. I don't like the file browsing part of it but some good ideas can be stolen.. like a certain arrow moving appearance thingy
19:19<laga>no, never used xbmc
19:20<laga>SWMBO wanted a ps2 instead and who am I to argue
19:20<justinh>gbee: you seen that new video of elisa? they made it much less sucky. still way way way too busy though
19:21<justinh>someone'll hit on the perfect paradigm for browsing though zillions of files one day. maybe we'll all have to don stupid gloves to do it...
19:22<gbee>justinh: no I haven't, not sure I want to either, I don't like elisa on principal and if it's really any good (better that myth) do I want to depress myself?
19:23<justinh>gbee: has a kinda cool breadcrumb tab thing going on in its file browser gadget. way too effects heavy still though
19:24<gbee>well sure people will take the best ideas and implement them in myth, I think mythui has the potential to open a floodgate of new, innovtative ideas for mythtv
19:24<justinh>best way to describe it would be the lovechild of the original elisa, appletv & the infamous 'rage2' video player
19:25<justinh>the video list has dynamically generated thumbnails.. $deity knows what kind of cpu it eats
19:25<gbee>dynamically generated how?
19:26<justinh>like er.. on the fly - thats what it looks like
19:26<justinh>video shows it going into a dir, the list has generic icons next to names, then the icons are replaced with thumbs
19:26<gbee>yeah figured that's what you meant by "dynamically generated", just wondered how you could tell
19:27<justinh> might be pulling them from a db still of course.. just doesn't look very er.. instant
19:27<gbee>ahh, konqueror does that already
19:27<justinh>yet to see anything that makes me think "we've gotta have that!" though
19:28<gbee>preview generator could be retasked to do the same job, if you look at something like konq you realise that the preview generator is not very efficient atm
19:28<justinh>plugins for fspot & flickr might be nice for folks though
19:31<gbee>I'm really excited to see what sorts of things people do with the buttonlist in mythui, especially when I've got the 'centre hold' stuff done, where the selected button stays in the centre of the screen, apple style coverart browsing would then be pretty easy
19:31<justinh>'people' being me, you, jams, & like maybe 2 other guys
19:31<gbee>no animation implemented yet for button changes, but that's not to difficult really
19:32<justinh>theming is like coding gbee. not a lot of people stepping up to the plate
19:33<gbee>justinh: we'll probably have to demonstrate what is possible to others, but I think once the possibilities of theming are shown to be more exciting that it will attract others
19:33<justinh>more exciting.. you mean 'exciting' ;)
19:33<justinh>look ma! I changed a graphic!
19:34<gbee>heh true, if you look at the core themes, most of which just use the same layout with a different colour/pattern, you'd get the impression that not much can really be changed, so why bother?
19:35<justinh>I'm a bit worried about falling down the hill on that score actually. I quite like a lot of the way myth looks & works now.. or is it that I've just become to accustomed to it?
19:35<gbee>justinh: I think it's pretty easy to become accustomed to the way mythtv is now
19:36<justinh>but - I think if I at least inspire people to have a bash, then I've accomplished something
19:37<justinh>cards on the table - there's loads I'd have changed before now if I'd been able. like making some elements of some screens optional, not segfault-causing if they're missing. I'm not in the least bit interested in some of the info mythtv offers
19:38<justinh>grouping/hiding osd menu items is on my list somewhere
19:39<gbee>grouping them would be nice
19:40<justinh>does anybody ever get together & talk about ideas they've had just for general features - even just to make sure nobody is inventing the same wheel as another?
19:41<gbee> outside this channel, not that I've ever heard
19:41<justinh>I'm not even going to mention the mailing list
19:42<gbee>I don't like discussing ideas on the mailing list, as you know they tend to get hijacked - or did you mean the "mailing list"?
19:43<justinh>just I tried mythmusic's smart search gadget out the other day, seeing if what a forum poster was asking for (feature request) was already possible (it was) - and er.. Wow. nice. now think about that in a looking for stuff to record context...
19:43<gbee>justinh: nice idea
19:43<justinh>and .. a looking for the film in mythvideo buried somewhere between S & U..
19:44<justinh>why should mythmusic be the only thing to have a really neat search feature?
19:45<justinh>this is one of the things I go on about sometimes.. how more commonality of features will be really cool. it's on that infamous to-do list of mine right now anyway
19:45<gbee>I spend a lot of time talking about the things I want to do and it's pretty easy to confuse those wish list items with the stuff I actually have time to work on
19:46<gbee>one of the really old things on my list was an advanced bookmarking thingy, I stopped work on that because I had problems with the UI part
19:47<justinh>I thought about why it hasn't already been done in some depth.. like the amount of queries, total amount of records, yada yada. but then I thought nah prolly won't be too bad if mythmusic can handle it
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19:47<gbee>as it now turns out mythui is absolutely ideal for the job (and about a dozen other ideas of mine) so that's one reason why it suddenly became my #1 priority
19:47<justinh>I keep seeing those griddy things when I shut my eyes
19:48<gbee>justinh: if mythmusic can handle it with collections in the thousands, then it would work fine for mythvideo/watch recordings
19:49<laga>hum, my frontend is segfaulty tonight
19:49<justinh>I need a dry marker board
19:49<gbee>the one issue, as I see it, is that watch recordings tends to avoid direct database access in favour of mythprotocol and that has a tendancy to slow things right down
19:49<justinh>is there any particular reason for that?
19:50<gbee>justinh: must have accessory (I've got two, though I really need to replace them with one big one)
19:50<justinh>tbh I can see a great advantage in moving a whole load of stuff to upnp
19:51<gbee>justinh: no idea and just because much of playbackbox uses data fetched over the protocol, that doesn't mean it all has to - so don't let that put you off
19:51<justinh>gbee: nothing harming in doing some queries in recorded to grab titles
19:52<gbee>nobo boards are bloody expensive, at least they are in Staples where I bought mine, which is why they are so small :(
19:52<justinh>anyway what code yer write doesn't have to be the final article, just a good worky example of the method
19:52<gbee>justinh: none at all
19:54<justinh>I was ranting ona forum the other day about feature requests, saying how they're not necessarily bad but trying to explain why nobody seems entirely devoted to seeing them accomplished (yeah..). anyway been trying to get across the point that if just once somebody would fully work out the cases for an improvement, really get down into the kernel of the idea.. something substantial for people to get hold of & have a good loo
19:56<justinh>age old debate. it'll never go away
19:56<laga>hum. i've just tried to attach gdb to mythfrontend while it was running and it stopped responding to my remote. is that normal?
19:56<justinh>doesn't sound it
19:58<laga>i'd bet that this segfaults stems from my library mess-up
20:05<justinh>wow is it past 1am already? all I've done today is watch tv & housework. and play with the dog
20:15<justinh>duh fspot isn't some online thing! it's a linux app. smack!
20:16<laga>when i adjust the size of the mythfrontend screen, my frontend gets very crashy
20:17<laga>if i just set everything to 0 i'm OK
20:17<justinh>er.. gbee.. big problem with mythappearance. not clearing the screen & the arrows are leaving trails
20:18<gbee>justinh: hmm, not seeing that hear, which painter?
20:19<gbee>ok, I've only used the gl painter so far, so I'm guessing there are some bugs in the qt painter
20:19<gbee>I'll take a look tomorrow, off to bed now :)
20:19<laga>g'night :)
20:19<justinh>I'll post a screenshot up. g'night
20:20*laga is somewhat puzzled
20:20<laga>all this cursing could have been avoided by just setting the screen size to 0. wow.
20:21<justinh>still shouldn't be crashing at custom sizes though
20:22<laga>i do some nasty LD_PRELOAD tricks while mixing libraries from feisty and gutsy.
20:23<laga>last time someone took a look at the backtrace it was declared a library problem. backtrace looks different this time, though
20:23<justinh>jees! the mythui menu fades in & out
20:24<justinh>I wasn't expecting that!
20:24<laga>oh noes
20:24<justinh>wonder if it's worth me (yeah lil ole me) having a look at the redrawing stuff for mythui in the qt painter
20:25<laga>justinh: being the theme guy, do you remember if the squishy fonts issue on 16:9 displays? eg ticket #4044
20:26<justinh>yeah! now I realise why the mythui demo app just looked like a load of munged up crap on my box
20:26<justinh>laga: in the OSD?
20:26<justinh>I think I worked around it in my OSDs
20:26<laga>i can reproduce it here 90% of the time. sometimes it doesn't happen when i'd expect it to
20:27<laga>guess i'll have to try that :)
20:27<justinh>easier to blame nvidia though
20:34<justinh>got to power down this dev box o mine. noisy all of a sudden. can't hear myself think
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20:46<laga>justinh: thanks, i'm using one of your OSD themes and it's fixed now
20:46<laga>yay :)
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20:58<justinh>hmm seems as if the qt painter isn't detecting areas are dirty & need to be redrawn. haven't worked out why yet
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---Logclosed Sun Jan 27 00:00:20 2008