| --- | Log | opened Fri Feb 01 00:00:01 2008 |
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| 03:31 | <loops> | anyone know why http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/4225 was rejected as "wontfix" ? |
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| 04:58 | <gbee> | loops: we're just two/three weeks from a new release |
| 04:58 | <loops> | gbee, fair enough, thanks. |
| 05:32 | <stuarta> | </rumour> |
| 05:41 | <stuarta> | justinh: thanks for the Project Grayhem fix |
| 05:46 | <justinh> | I'd only said they won't be continued after 0.21. it's not after yet :) |
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| 06:07 | <stuarta> | aah. can you tell i haven't actually read your website yet? |
| 06:07 | * | stuarta <- been busy |
| 06:12 | <justinh> | could've sworn I'd already updated the remoteedits. maybe it was another one |
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| 06:49 | <gbee> | just stumbled upon a fox sleeping in the garden :) |
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| 10:04 | <gbee> | eep, snowing |
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| 12:10 | <xris> | test |
| 12:11 | <xris> | cool, works |
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| 12:25 | <MrGandalf> | no it doesn't.. I didn't get that, can you repeat? |
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| 13:22 | * | xris wonders if an hd homerun would be a worthwhile purchase... |
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| 13:36 | <gbee> | any objections to me committing a large change to mythlistbutton? I've considered putting it into a new branch, but since we only use mythlistbutton in three places so far (and it works in all three), it probably isn't worth a new branch |
| 13:37 | <xris> | hmm |
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| 13:39 | <renatofilho^> | hi guys, Its possible discovery the backend info (port, db name, ...) using upnp? |
| 13:40 | <gbee> | renatofilho^: yes, but you'll have to look at the code for the exact commands |
| 13:42 | <renatofilho^> | gbee: Ok I will search in the code, |
| 13:49 | <sphery> | renatofilho^: You wouldn't happen to be implementing UPnP for the Perl bindings, would you. (or, perhaps, interested in implementing... :) |
| 13:50 | <renatofilho^> | sphery: Im working in gmyth-upnp |
| 13:51 | <renatofilho^> | gbee: I found in the code this is the url: http://xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx:xxx/Myth/GetConnectionInfo |
| 13:52 | <renatofilho^> | but for some reason the port parameter is missing |
| 13:52 | <renatofilho^> | I saw in the code and the line where append the port parameter is commented |
| 13:53 | <renatofilho^> | some one know the reason of that? |
| 13:54 | <sphery> | renatofilho^: Cool. (Haven't played with gmyth, yet, but keep meaning to.) Can find some info on GetConnectionInfo at http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/changeset/13022 |
| 13:55 | <sphery> | CDev_ is probably the best source of info about it, though. He hangs out here, but Nigel P has been doing a lot of work on that stuff lately (he only really hangs out on the -dev list). |
| 13:56 | <renatofilho^> | thanks sphery |
| 13:56 | <xris> | renatofilho^: you're not involved with bossa conference, are you?" |
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| 13:59 | <xris> | sphery: http://perlupnp.sourceforge.net/ |
| 13:59 | <renatofilho^> | xris: yes I am |
| 14:00 | <sphery> | xris: Yeah. I think you gave me that link before. I'm just hoping someone else (i.e. someone who actually knows Perl rather than just hacking it) will do it right, though. :) |
| 14:00 | <xris> | sphery: it's technically my job. :) I just don't have time. |
| 14:00 | <sphery> | I wouldn't say it's your job. Open source is a community effort. :) |
| 14:01 | <xris> | renatofilho^: Captain_Murdoch was supposed to go last year as a presenter to work with you gmyth guys, but carnival happened and he didn't get his plane tickets in time to get a visa. Just thought I'd drop a friendly reminder that he's probably still interested in going along this year. |
| 14:01 | <superm1> | hi renatofilho^, i was working on getting some of the gmyth stuff in before hardy |
| 14:02 | * | xris wanted to go to bossa, too, but there wasn't any budget for 2 people.. (and I don't have any time off this year) |
| 14:02 | <superm1> | renatofilho^, i was wondering why you guys had that separate gstreamer plugin package though, since gstreamer source (cvs at least) already has that in it |
| 14:02 | * | xris just wants to drink a lot of caipirinhas |
| 14:03 | <renatofilho^> | :D |
| 14:03 | <justinh> | mmm caipirinha |
| 14:03 | * | xris made a pomegranate caipirinha the other day. tasty |
| 14:03 | <superm1> | renatofilho^, i'm just grabbing those cvs modules and patching our gstreamer-bad-plugins. it's a lot easier to patch a package than to get a NEW one in this late :) |
| 14:04 | * | justinh considers adding a wishlist to his site with Cachacha at the top |
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| 14:04 | <xris> | sphery: I'll put perl upnp on my todo list, though. would help if search.cpan.org wasn't DOWN. |
| 14:06 | <renatofilho^> | superm1: Im finishing the last details to launch the release 0.7, |
| 14:06 | <superm1> | renatofilho^, great :) |
| 14:06 | <renatofilho^> | this release will be in the next ubuntu :D |
| 14:08 | <sphery> | xris: It's not that big a deal--especially with the changes to config.xml that allow the bindings to work without mysql.txt. |
| 14:08 | <xris> | yah |
| 14:08 | <xris> | those settings are somewhat necessary, anyway... my network's broken up and my mythbox is in my dmz... no upnp to my workstation. |
| 14:09 | <xris> | granted, that's less important to me now that my workstation is a mac laptop.. |
| 14:09 | * | xris wishes that someone who isn't a scammer would reply to the for-sale ad on craigslist. |
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| 14:40 | <justinh> | gbee: woooo grids! horizontalists too :D |
| 14:41 | <gbee> | justinh: aye, not that we yet have any screens which could really use them, though I suppose with some imagination mythcontrols might - context list across the top? |
| 14:42 | <gbee> | actually .... |
| 14:42 | * | gbee goes to implement that in metallurgy, contexts across the top, grid of 'actions' below that |
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| 14:46 | <gbee> | there are one or two little changes I need to make, currently you can get 'stuck' on the grid view because normally you'd use left/right to navigate away from a list, but the grid view uses left/right/up/down :) |
| 14:46 | <gbee> | only way I can see around that is to 'pop' off the grid when you reach an edge |
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| 14:52 | <sphery> | gbee: The F1/Help for the icons on the Watch Recordings screen could use a grid with all the new icons you've added... Of course, that would mean converting that section to mythui, first. :) |
| 14:52 | <gbee> | heh, well I'll work on converting those screens post 0.21 |
| 14:53 | <sphery> | probably a good plan. |
| 14:53 | <clever> | gbee: i thought using tab you can escape a grid list? |
| 14:53 | <gbee> | we can mix libmyth and libmythui to a certain degree, but it gets a little messy if you don't stick to a plan |
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| 14:55 | <gbee> | clever: myth needs to keep navigation to ~6 buttons, i.e. arrow buttons, enter (select) and escape because it's supposed to be navigable with a remote |
| 14:55 | <clever> | yeah |
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| 14:58 | <gbee> | on pages which mix a grid with another focusable widget we need to be able to leave the grid somehow and the best idea I can come up with is that any keypress made at the margins of a grid (left on the leftmost column etc) should drop through to mythscreentype and be used for switching to the next/previous widget |
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| 15:06 | <clever> | gbee: but some grids like the tv guide wrap at the top/bottom and go on for 2 weeks to the right |
| 15:07 | <clever> | the tv guide on my cable box |
| 15:07 | <clever> | when i get to the last item in the list and push down |
| 15:07 | <clever> | it selects the button at the bottom(allways there on every page) |
| 15:07 | <clever> | then if i down agan it redraws the whole page |
| 15:07 | <clever> | and wraps to the top |
| 15:08 | <clever> | doesnt realy scroll but flips the whole page |
| 15:08 | <clever> | but when at the edge between pages i can select buttons above/below the list |
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| 15:13 | <gbee> | clever: we'd probably do something similar in Myth assuming that a very large grid shares space with other focusable widgets (doesn't actually happen anywhere in MythTV currently) |
| 15:14 | <clever> | the channel list in mythtv-setup! |
| 15:14 | <clever> | buttons comboboxes and a long list! |
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| 15:16 | <gbee> | that's a list, not a grid though |
| 15:17 | <gbee> | and I can't see anyone choosing to format that as grid |
| 15:17 | <clever> | what does that list do on left/right? |
| 15:18 | <gbee> | changes to the next widget |
| 15:18 | <gbee> | just as it does now |
| 15:18 | <clever> | ahh |
| 15:20 | <gbee> | even if it were a grid, the grid doesn't extend to infinity to the right/left, it's governed by the number of buttons visible on a page at any time - e.g. with a 20 item grid, where you can fit 4 items across the page, you'd have 5 rows |
| 15:24 | <gbee> | xris: I feel left out :p |
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| 15:42 | <MrGandalf> | anyone here who wants to help me debug a stuck backend? It's stuck in livetv waiting for "WaitingForRecPause' |
| 15:58 | <justinh> | gbee: I'm busy pondering something else right now but possible uses of horizontal items in screens are beginning to occur to me |
| 16:01 | <justinh> | must.. resist urge to draw mockups already |
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| 16:09 | <xris> | gbee: ? |
| 16:10 | <gbee> | xris: can't just pop across to the States for a get together ;) |
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| 16:13 | <xris> | ahh |
| 16:13 | <xris> | maybe that's what the money from tshirt sales could help with.. international airfare for some of the major non-US contributors. :) |
| 16:14 | <xris> | or you guys could just have a UK meetup. :) |
| 16:15 | <sphery> | gbee got a free trip to the US and all I got was this lousy T-shirt... |
| 16:15 | <gbee> | lmao |
| 16:15 | <justinh> | if I got enough donations I'd pay. trouble is, they don't come in when themes are old |
| 16:16 | <gbee> | we've had a couple of UK meetups already, think the next event might be a European get together with janneg and others |
| 16:16 | <janneg> | announcing to drop support doesn't help either |
| 16:17 | <justinh> | janneg: something has to give. how many themes? they're like a millstone around my neck |
| 16:18 | <janneg> | LinuxTag might be an option. the ffmpeg and mplayer developers meet there too |
| 16:18 | <sphery> | unless you're going for the bribery-type donations: Please don't drop neon-wide, here's $20 |
| 16:18 | <justinh> | I can have a life & do other things or spend my time keeping 10 themes up to date |
| 16:18 | <janneg> | I would probably go to the uk too if there is something |
| 16:21 | <sphery> | justinh: Yeah. (And you do deserve to have time for a life out side of your themes.) Unfortunately, it seems people are much less inclined to help with themes than with code. And when some of us help (i.e. people like me), themers generally have to re-do things to preserve the right artistic slant for the theme. |
| 16:22 | <janneg> | justinh: understandable. I wouldn't want to maintain more than one theme. blame gbee for me not maintaining blootube ;) |
| 16:23 | <gbee> | oh sure ... blame me for everything! :p |
| 16:23 | <justinh> | I hope to find time to clean up those themes before the release, rationalise fonts, optimise graphical content some more.. that should help whoever picks up the baton |
| 16:25 | <justinh> | and come the mythui completion I'd hope that the next generation of themes make everybody forget about the old ones ;) |
| 16:26 | <janneg> | btw do we want to change the default theme before 0.21? |
| 16:26 | <justinh> | don't ask me. I want nothing to do with that |
| 16:26 | <xris> | justinh: that's where a good theme API would work out well.. standardize a bunch of things so that instead of stopping working completely, the non-compatible parts of the theme are just replaced by the defaults |
| 16:27 | <justinh> | xris: true. better something look out of place than myth go "whoah! missing element! bye!" |
| 16:27 | <janneg> | I'm asking everyone and I have a theme in mind |
| 16:27 | <kormoc> | what is the current default theme? |
| 16:28 | <justinh> | if my 2p is worth anything around here I'd suggest metallurgy |
| 16:28 | <janneg> | G.A.N.T |
| 16:28 | <justinh> | but there's no 4:3 version yet ;) |
| 16:28 | <kormoc> | Then I'd say to keep it. I like how it looks :) |
| 16:28 | <janneg> | gant has no wide version |
| 16:28 | <kormoc> | you know, I now have a wide screen and I didn't notice it looking strange |
| 16:29 | <justinh> | gant would be quite easy to widen. probably a couple of nights' work.. damn |
| 16:29 | <justinh> | you want a wide gant? I can probably slip it in |
| 16:29 | <kormoc> | I like blue and all the other colors, but that grey is just so much easier on my eyes |
| 16:30 | <xris> | janneg: I'd *love* to get a better default them. gant sucks. :) |
| 16:30 | <janneg> | I'm thinking already a couple of months of implementing letter/pillar-boxing themes |
| 16:30 | <justinh> | kormoc: thing is, its icons don't rub well with everybody the same way. I've never spoke to anybody who felt indifferent about it. it's either love or hate |
| 16:30 | <xris> | gbee: how close is glass? though I guess there's no wide version of that |
| 16:30 | <janneg> | justinh: me? no, IU wouldn't have use for gant wide |
| 16:30 | <xris> | er, not glass... metallurgy |
| 16:31 | <kormoc> | justinh, fair 'nuff |
| 16:31 | <justinh> | un-widening a theme is a different prospect. given the source graphics though, wouldn't be too hard |
| 16:31 | <kormoc> | justinh, I'd use it if you want to do it |
| 16:31 | <janneg> | xris: metallurgy is wide only but it has a metching osd theme |
| 16:32 | <gbee> | xris: metallurgy is 95% there, just a couple of plugins unthemed and a few extra watermarks/icons I'd like to add |
| 16:32 | <xris> | how bad does metallurgy look when it's squished to 4:#? |
| 16:32 | <justinh> | xris: squishing rounded rects & circles is bad news ;) |
| 16:32 | <xris> | ah |
| 16:32 | <janneg> | the menu looks funny due to the circles |
| 16:33 | <janneg> | the rounded rects look imho ok |
| 16:33 | <justinh> | to anybody who hadn't seen the wide version it might be acceptable but fwiw.. |
| 16:33 | * | xris really wants a 4:3 version... :) |
| 16:34 | <xris> | maybe I'll install it tonight and see what it looks like |
| 16:34 | <kormoc> | or a 16:9 tv? |
| 16:34 | <gbee> | I can take a look at how much work would be needed for a 4:3 version, the biggest job is converting the 1280x720 based positioning info to something 4:3 |
| 16:34 | <gbee> | _might_ conceivably be possible to script that |
| 16:35 | <xris> | kormoc: yeah, 16:9 tv would be good, too. but more expensive for me. gbee's time is free to me. :) |
| 16:35 | <kormoc> | I'm sure this has been asked many times before, doesn't vector graphics fix these issues? |
| 16:35 | <justinh> | gbee: 4:3 is a different kettle of fish. you have to make a lot of sacrifices IMHO |
| 16:35 | <kormoc> | heh, fair 'nuff |
| 16:35 | <justinh> | kormoc: probably would if you did it right |
| 16:35 | <gbee> | kormoc: not really, scaling yes, but different aspect ratios probably not |
| 16:35 | <xris> | kormoc: vector graphics and some form of auto-positioning of elements |
| 16:36 | <xris> | does myth support svg? |
| 16:36 | <gbee> | you might get away with pillarboxing/letterboxing themes |
| 16:36 | <justinh> | xris: not til qt4 |
| 16:36 | <xris> | ah, lame |
| 16:36 | <xris> | gbee: hahaha.. that'd be funny |
| 16:36 | <justinh> | xris: unless somebody wrote something to render svg into bitmaps |
| 16:37 | <justinh> | pull in an external lib or so |
| 16:37 | <xris> | gbee: actually, not too bad of an idea, except that with 4:3 on crappy tv screens, you want as much vertical space as possible for fonts in listings, etc. |
| 16:37 | <kormoc> | justinh, well, could do a wrapper to take the svg, scale it and then render the scaled image into a bitmap |
| 16:37 | <gbee> | xris: yeah :/ |
| 16:37 | <xris> | imagemagick can probably do it |
| 16:37 | <xris> | just a matter of whether it'd have the same kinds of alignment problems that firefox does. |
| 16:37 | <gbee> | metallurgy was done entirely in SVG and then exported to PNG |
| 16:38 | <justinh> | I used to be dead opposed to svg in themes but since doing a lot more of my stuff in vectors I've warmed to the idea |
| 16:38 | <xris> | gbee: that's why I asked. I know you've been doing a lot of vector stuff. :) |
| 16:38 | <justinh> | dunno how fast the rendering could be though - esp. if gaussian blurs & transparency is used a lot - which they tend to be |
| 16:39 | <gbee> | I think prescaling is always going to be faster in the end |
| 16:39 | <xris> | depends on video card support, probably |
| 16:39 | <gbee> | but until we benchmark it |
| 16:39 | <xris> | but better than nothing, could still render the svg into png for cache purposes |
| 16:39 | <justinh> | wonder what the 'competition' does.. |
| 16:41 | <justinh> | my fear with svg coming in is that bitmaps will one day stop being supported. inkscape isn't the easiest of programs to use for real complex works |
| 16:42 | <kormoc> | I would imagine that would take a long time to get removed |
| 16:42 | <sphery> | pillarboxed with a background (or some new "behind background" thing) scaled to the screen size (so you don't see black pillars) wouldn't look too bad for a 4:3 theme on a 16:X screen (where X != 12 :)~ |
| 16:42 | <kormoc> | sphery, cheater! :P |
| 16:42 | <justinh> | if there was a 'scale positions but preserve image aspect ratios' option... |
| 16:43 | <justinh> | buttons could look normal. highlight boxes, selectbars & other graphics could be scaled as usual.. |
| 16:43 | <xris> | justinh: nah, you'd still want non-vector formats for some things.. photo icons, etc |
| 16:44 | <xris> | sphery: yeah, pillarbox would be fine. it's the letterbox on a small 4:3 screen that could become problematic |
| 16:44 | <justinh> | xris: wouldn't want that to be automatical either - I run 720x576 on my 16:9 TV |
| 16:45 | <justinh> | xris: pillarboxing is the enemy of plasma TVs :) |
| 16:45 | <xris> | justinh: xorg.conf has anamorphic settings.. |
| 16:45 | <xris> | mythtv is already aware of those |
| 16:45 | <gbee> | justinh: I added just such an option to libmyth (though never committed it), wouldn't be hard to add a "preserve aspect ratio" option to MythImage |
| 16:45 | <justinh> | gbee: cool - then you could just slap that on things you don't want stretched silly |
| 16:46 | <justinh> | then at worse a 4:3 menu theme on 16:9 aspect would just look 'spaced out' |
| 16:46 | <xris> | gbee: that'd be nice, actually... you could use that on all of your round stuff.. and then only stretch things like text when you go from 16:9 to a 4:3 screen |
| 16:46 | <gbee> | I'll look into it this weekend |
| 16:46 | <justinh> | makes testing harder though |
| 16:46 | <xris> | justinh: yup |
| 16:47 | <justinh> | then again it's only an option for those who want to go down that road |
| 16:47 | <xris> | yeah. basically just "slightly better" support for off-aspeect themes |
| 16:47 | <justinh> | right. walking the dog time |
| 17:04 | <gbee> | focus model in mythui needs a little work, currently no way for a widget to take focus for itself, the screen has to give it focus |
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| 17:15 | <gbee> | losing recordings is starting to get on my nerves, might have to bin this Nova-T 500 and replace it with something that actually works |
| 17:15 | <justinh> | gbee: I can heartily recommend the £20 maplin cheapie |
| 17:17 | * | gbee tries to find a copy of janneg's EIT crippling patch |
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| 17:33 | <justinh> | think I might've noticed a wee bug-ette |
| 17:33 | <justinh> | I'll try to reproduce it in a bit |
| 17:43 | <janneg> | gbee: so the single patch wasn't to blame for the failing recordings |
| 17:44 | <janneg> | gbee: my second nova-t 500 in my dev box has a disconnect every 2 hours or so |
| 17:44 | <gbee> | janneg: no it was, as best I can tell anyway, but without the patch I get disconnect/read errors from the card - so I loose recordings either way |
| 17:45 | <janneg> | even with current v4l-dvb hg |
| 17:46 | <gbee> | janneg: not running current since the patch was committed |
| 17:48 | <janneg> | gbee: sorry, that was no question but a description of my dev box |
| 17:48 | <gbee> | ahh |
| 17:50 | <gbee> | without the patch I lose recordings on both tuners so long as EIT scanning is enabled, with the patch I only lose recordings on the second tuner and EIT scanning works fine |
| 17:50 | <gbee> | not much of a choice, but I'd rather run with EIT disabled and use both tuners for recording |
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| 18:30 | <gbee> | justinh: not the most imaginative use of horizontal/grid layouts, the images are just temporary and I need to sort out the arrow positioning code - http://miffteevee.co.uk/imagebin/controls_grid.png |
| 18:30 | <justinh> | roflmao -rory is barking in his sleep |
| 18:30 | <gbee> | heh |
| 18:31 | <justinh> | oo I like that |
| 18:32 | <gbee> | comes into it's own with a mouse/touchscreen, little faster to navigate with a remote/keyboard as well though |
| 18:32 | <justinh> | idea I had earlier was for a file browser type gadget like in mythvideo & mythmusic - breadcrumb tabs.. if you see what I mean |
| 18:33 | <gbee> | yeah, nice idea |
| 18:33 | <justinh> | can't take any credit - saw it in the demo vid of elisa |
| 18:33 | <justinh> | other browsery things use that kind of thing too though |
| 18:33 | <gbee> | those horizontal buttons up top could be made to look like file tabs with the right images |
| 18:34 | <justinh> | I'm really starting to imagine how mythui is gonna lift the lid now |
| 18:34 | <gbee> | <spacing>0</spacing> etc |
| 18:34 | <justinh> | and beginning to think outside the confines of what is already done |
| 18:35 | <justinh> | had another crack at putting that button in the appearance setup menu again. ended up reverting. maybe next time I'll swallow my pride & ask somebody to have a look |
| 18:39 | <justinh> | basically looks like I need to change the appearance setting section globalsettings.h to define the button classes, had me stumped. if it's a c++ 101 thing I'll go away with my head down & keep on at it |
| 18:41 | <justinh> | well, in some ways I spose it is.. but there's more to it I think |
| 18:43 | * | xris just wants the imdb grabber stuff built into mythvideo itself... instead of into mythvideo settings. |
| 18:43 | <justinh> | what'd be easier would be to just keep mythappearance.cpp as is & treat it like another setup section but I dunno how acceptable that'd be |
| 18:44 | <justinh> | just take the 'plugin' out of it |
| 18:44 | <gbee> | http://miffteevee.co.uk/imagebin/controls_grid1.png < little more imagination with the images (just an example) |
| 18:44 | <justinh> | niiice |
| 18:45 | <justinh> | looking very appliance-like there :) |
| 18:45 | <gbee> | justinh: adding another setup section is what I'd do since you aren't really going to integrate it into the settings wizard stuff very easily |
| 18:45 | <justinh> | reminiscent of a big Pronto in some ways |
| 18:46 | <justinh> | gbee: that, I can probably do quite easily |
| 18:46 | <justinh> | well, as easily as I can do anything else :P |
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| 19:03 | <rooaus> | gbee: Nice work :) |
| 19:05 | <gbee> | still plenty to do |
| 19:05 | <justinh> | gbee: yeah, like the flashy flash style animation where all the grid elements float into place :P |
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| 19:09 | <sphery> | Hmmm. My screenshots aren't nearly as cool... http://misc.thirdcontact.com/MythTV/backup.png |
| 19:13 | <gbee> | more colourful |
| 19:13 | <justinh> | nice user-friendly UI |
| 19:14 | <justinh> | bah I hate rationalising fonts |
| 19:14 | <rooaus> | gbee: Would colspan and rowspan be difficult? |
| 19:15 | <gbee> | no, but it will need some changes that I've already planned |
| 19:17 | <gbee> | currently column width/row height comes from the background image you've specified, we need another way to determine that info before colspan/rowspan would work as intended |
| 19:17 | <rooaus> | cool, I think the grid stuff and the themed popups alone could make a marked improvement to myth's prettiness :D |
| 19:17 | <gbee> | we need colspan/rowspan for the guide grid though, so it's on my list |
| 19:18 | <gbee> | I think buttonlist will go through a few evolutions before 0.22 |
| 19:19 | * | gbee goes to bed |
| 19:19 | <rooaus> | night |
| 19:19 | <justinh> | g'night |
| 19:20 | <rooaus> | sphery: #3642 v7 added |
| 19:21 | <sphery> | rooaus: Cool. Thanks. I hope that helps to get it included for 0.21. :) |
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| 19:22 | <rooaus> | sphery: Haven't had any luck with the GuideGrid::showProgFinder() stuff Captain_Murdoch mentioned though. Seems adding the accept() isn't all that is needed, doing that the guidegrid exits when returning from the finder... will look further into it. |
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| 21:18 | <xris> | gbee: still awake? |
| 21:20 | <xris> | oh well. msg in pm |
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| --- | Log | closed Sat Feb 02 00:00:05 2008 |
