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#mythtv IRC Logs for 2008-02-05

---Logopened Tue Feb 05 00:00:48 2008
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01:36<sphery>xris: Looks like the XmlConfiguration uses MythContext::GetConfDir(), so myth looks for config.xml first in the dir specified by the env var MYTHCONFDIR, then in $HOME/.mythtv. Doesn't seem to use Settings::LoadSettingsFiles() or MythContext::GetShareDir(), so it's simpler than the mysql.txt check.
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01:38<xris>I'm pulling thx mysql.txt stuff out of now, actually
01:38<xris>getting basic upnp-based scanning put in
01:47<sphery>Cool. That will be good. Having some parts use one and other parts use the other would be very confusing for users.
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02:22<stuarta>danielk22: we've come up with a list of what we need to do before 0.21. Anything you want to add to it?
02:22<stuarta>Otherwise it'll be put out to the -dev list as "what needs to be done before 0.21"
02:25<stuarta>crap that's the old list.
02:28<xris>ahh, scotch should help the upnp headache. :)
02:29*xris needs a better supply of this stuff
02:29<xris>hmm, then again, the local liquor store has a bottle of this stuff.. I should stock up
02:31<stuarta>the headline bbc story today is Audio Described tracks in their broadcast.
02:31<stuarta>must be a slow day
02:33*stuarta heads to the office
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02:37<clever>where in the code would i have to change things
02:37<clever>so it streams from the backend when its in the WatchingRecording mode?
02:37<clever>nfs has trouble with files that are being appended to
02:42<xris>I think there's a frontend setting for "always stream from the backend"
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02:43<clever>but i dont want it allways
02:43<clever>i want it sometimes
02:45<xris>w00t, upnp auto-detection.
02:45<xris>in perl
02:45<xris>and scotch smells really nice...
02:50<xris>hmm, I'm missing something..
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03:12<clever>the db schema question is a nice addition:D
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---Logclosed Tue Feb 05 03:34:19 2008
---Logopened Tue Feb 05 03:34:25 2008
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03:41<unagi>i am trying so hard not to give up on mythtv
03:43<siXy>unagi: /topic
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03:45<unagi>oh crap
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04:10<Davo_Dinkum>That bot is kind of annoying.
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06:02<rooaus>danielk22: Could you give some pointers on what needs to be done to implement software scaling for xlib and xshm. Is VideoOutputXv::ProcessFrameMem() the right place?
06:03<rooaus>justinh: morning
06:04<justinh>started work on the base.xml base fonts for all the core themes. then we can say goodbye to font definitions in the various ui xml files :)
06:04<justinh>no more font mixamatosis :)
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06:21<justinh>anybody agree that font base sizes of small (8pt), medium (16pt) and large (22pt) seem fine?
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06:24<siXy>on small CRTs, an extra-large would be nice. or a larger large.
06:25<justinh>just starting with three base sizes for now
06:25<justinh>I can only think of one thing that uses a super mega-large font & that's in mythvideo IIRC
06:38<janneg>justinh: small might be a little too small
06:38<justinh>ok. everything's still up in the air & open to experimentation
06:50<gbee>justinh: go with something above 12pt for small, when I was experimenting with metallurgy I found that was the minimum needed to remain readable in different conditions
06:53<gbee>maybe small 12pt, medium 16pt, large 20pt? Reduces the spread but that's similar to what metallurgy uses and I've had no complaints
06:54<justinh>sounds ok to me :)
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06:57<gbee>extralarge could be around 22pt+, might be used for main menus etc, but I can't see it being used elsewhere
06:59*gbee finally finishes reading the 105 mythtv related emails and realises that half the day has gone
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08:18<janneg>bah, I've most open tickets with 0.21 milestone
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09:16<setuid>I've got what may be a development question... We had a talk last night at our LUG on MythTV with a demo, and a lot of questions came up. From a development perspective, some "features" didn't appear to exist (yet?). So I'd like to throw it out there and see if it's possible, or might already exist.
09:16<setuid>First one is the ability to flag "viewed" programs, so that recording all "new" episodes of that program wouldn't re-record ones I've already watched and expired away.
09:17<setuid>My "commercial" DVR solution does this.. I tell it to record all new programs, I watch them all, delete them, and because they no longer exist on the DVR, it re-records them at the next repeated interval.
09:17<setuid>So I'd like to see if I have to write a plugin that does the right thing here.
09:17<GreyFoxx>Myth keeps a history and wont rerecord a show unless you tell it to
09:17<setuid>That was my next question....
09:17<GreyFoxx>Or unless the show description/title e4tc is different than what the history has
09:18<justinh>then that's the guide data to blame, not mythtv ;)
09:18<setuid>With the scheduling data, it was demoed last night that it only keeps a few days of historical scheduling data. I'd need to extend this to at least a full season, possibly two seasons.
09:19<justinh>setuid: depends on the agreement with the data provider. SD won't allow archiving it AFAIK - and possibly others will be similar
09:19<GreyFoxx>It keeps a week or so historical program guide, but permanently keeps recording history
09:19<setuid>GreyFoxx, Ok, what you just said might be the key here...
09:19<GreyFoxx>as well, keeping that much data in the programs table will cause severe performance issues in several areas including scheduling
09:20<justinh>keeps a history of recorded shows for as long as you let it
09:20<GreyFoxx>setuid: there is a "oldrecorded" table which keeps a permanent recording history
09:20<GreyFoxx>You can tell it to wipe the history for a show to start recording old episodes again if you want
09:20<setuid>Let's say there are new episodes of something that I haven't watched yet, AND were not recorded (because the tuner was busy recording something else at the time), and the scheduling data has expired... does it keep a history of what _would_ have been recorded, or only what _was_ recorded?
09:20<GreyFoxx>but few people do that
09:21<setuid>ah, so I'd need to patch that up, or write some custom queries to the db to roll it into my own table
09:21<GreyFoxx>If the tuner is busy it will attempt to reschedule if the show appears at a later date depending on the scheduling rule
09:21<setuid>That's why I'd need to go back at least a full season
09:21<GreyFoxx>That's why I often use rules like "Record house on on Fox at any time"
09:21<GreyFoxx>then it will reschedule at a later time if no tuners are available AND the episode is available later
09:22<setuid>Heroes is one great example... my daughter's Noggin recordings superceded a Heroes episode or three, and so I missed recording them (on my commercial DVR), and now I can't go back and see when they were, or what episodes they were, to try to find them again.
09:22<GreyFoxx>setuid: Then use priorities
09:22<GreyFoxx>Make hers a lower priority and your schedules will win :)
09:22<setuid>Is it possible to tell MythTV to record "House" on any channel at any time it is available?
09:22<GreyFoxx>My daughters shows are all -5
09:22<GreyFoxx>setuid: yes
09:22<GreyFoxx>anytime any channel
09:23<setuid>As long as the string "House" matches, right?
09:23<setuid>Or I should say... "^House$", right?
09:23<setuid>I wouldn't want "House Hunters" or something to be recorded instead :D
09:23<GreyFoxx>It's not a wildcard match :)
09:24<setuid>Of course
09:24<GreyFoxx>But with power schedules it can use wildcards
09:24<GreyFoxx>It's infinitly flexible
09:25<setuid>Next question: is it possible to limit what parts of the guide show up, per-user? For example, my daughter runs MythTV on her slave node in her bedroom, and she only sees Noggin/Nickelodeon/etc., instead of the other channels I don't want her to see (CSI, Cold Case Files, etc.)
09:25<GreyFoxx>no, there is no concept of multiple users
09:25<GreyFoxx>expect for pins on shows in mythvideo and such to keep the kids out of the porn
09:25<setuid>I can't restrict the guide, not even through themes or something? or tell the master to only show a subset, when Node_A contacts it?
09:25<GreyFoxx>You have the source, you can tell it to do anything you like
09:25<setuid>Sure, but we don't have any pr0n channels
09:26<GreyFoxx>myth, as is, has no concept of users
09:26<setuid>Ok, so I'd have to add a login feature, and then have a level of permissions per-login, on the guide data.
09:26<justinh>my oldrecorded table goes as far back as 2005-12-28 21:00:00
09:26<setuid>Well, even a "rating" system or something would be nice... only show my daughter PG13 and under channels, for example
09:27<hads>Channels don't generally have ratings though.
09:27<justinh>nobody has yet extended the parental control system into TV
09:27<setuid>Which ties into my next question: It seems that she would be able to browse ALL cover art for all DVDs on the system, even if parental controls prohibit her from _watching_ them.
09:28<setuid>There should be a way to restrict that as well, so she can't even _view_ the cover art (which may be gorey or adult in nature), without proper credentials/age/whatever.
09:28<justinh>might be a good time to wonder how far the multiuser SoC code got
09:28<siXy>you must have some pretty dubious cover art for that to be an issue
09:28<setuid>siXy, Think horror movies
09:28<setuid>blood, knives, things that cause nightmares in a 4 year old
09:29<justinh>shouldn't be too hard to hide cover art for videos above the current viewable rating
09:29<GreyFoxx>I have never actually enabled any the Parental Controls stuff. Does it make you enter a pin at playback time or when entering mythvideos list/gallery ?
09:30<GreyFoxx>If it's at entering the gallery then you could substitue the image with a big red X
09:30<justinh>nor would it be too hard to implement a parental lock on some channels like it's possible to on some STBs
09:30<setuid>Ok, I'll keep going: Is it possible to rip DVDs to treat the unavoidable, ADHD-inducing intro dreck as "commercials", so she can watch _just_ the video part she wants? Right now, we can't stop, skip or forward past the damn intro stuff (red circle with slash comes up on our DVD players).
09:30<justinh>setuid: when the player is in software you can do anything you want ;)
09:30<mattwire>You could have a look at the channelgroup stuff on ticket 199 for the guide filtering
09:30<setuid>justinh, Sure, but how close is it to allowing me to cut that stuff out?
09:31<justinh>setuid: just skip past it
09:31<mattwire>shouldn't be too hard to restrict a frontend to one group only
09:31<justinh>mattwire: wouldn't be a bad thing to have a unified set of parental controls
09:31<setuid>mattwire, Right, but the problem seems to be that _viewing_ the list of available DVDs and _playing_ the list of available DVDs is under different parental controls at the momenyt
09:32<siXy>you might be able to add a parental level to channel list and recordings table, and then nick the pincode part of mythvideo to apply to guide/recordings
09:32<setuid>I'm trying to whiteboard this all out, before I begin buying hardware and building it all
09:32<GreyFoxx>as long as all of that defaults to off
09:32<justinh>maybe even for music too :) stop little Tommy playing all your Gangsta rap :P
09:32<siXy>lol :)
09:33<hads>user type stuff
09:33<justinh>IMHO parental controls begins at removing the batteries from the remote ;)
09:33<setuid>Our provider (Dish Network) is inept, and we have to subscribe to this massive 180 channel package just to get Noggin. We get about 80 HD sports channels we never watch (and can't see anyway, no HD televisions in the house).
09:33<setuid>I wish they'd just say "Pick any 20 channels for $50/month" or something
09:33<GreyFoxx>Personally if I really don't want my daughter to see something I move it outside of the system, but I can undertstand why a parent might want those things
09:34<setuid>GreyFoxx, Sure, but now moving it out of the system means I need to have two separate places to store data...
09:34<justinh>don't forget parental controls can be used to keep parents out too ;)
09:34<GreyFoxx>setuid: a seperate directory on the same filesystem works
09:34<GreyFoxx>then just ssh in , mv to the video dir, run mythvideo and watch, exit and move back :)
09:34<GreyFoxx>I don't actually do it, but that's basically what I would do
09:35<setuid>Which brings me to my next point. I have ~100gb of music ripped from our massive CD collection sitting on a BSD fileserver (on a RAID slice, GELI-encrypted). I'd rather not have to copy that data to the MythTV master node, _and_ keep it on the BSD fileserver (so my wife's Mac, Windows machine and my Linux machine can get to it on the LAN with iTunes, Amarok, etc.)
09:35<GreyFoxx>My porn and movies are right there in the list with everything else
09:35<justinh>the day my wife learns how to enable viewing 'hidden files' I'm sunk
09:35<setuid>GreyFoxx, If I'm going to do that, I might as well just mount the drive over NFS and use mplayer to play it directly
09:35<setuid>Or just put Apache on there and point mplayer to the URL
09:36<GreyFoxx>setuid: which for the very very rare thing I might want to keep "hidden" would be likely a good idea :)
09:36<setuid>Can MythTV point to an existing location for music sitting on another physical machine, and incorporate that into it's media capabilities?
09:36<GreyFoxx>and my stuff is already nfs mounted anyway :)
09:36<justinh>there are already a bunch of point similar to ones raised just now on the wiki. dunno how many real devs read it though
09:36<GreyFoxx>setuid: You can just NFS mount the music and point mythmusic there
09:37<GreyFoxx>no need for it to be physically on the box
09:37<setuid>I'd rather not have to duplicate what exists on the SAN
09:37<GreyFoxx>4 of my 5 active frontends don't even have HD's :)
09:37<setuid>Sure, front-ends I can see... no need for storage or moving parts
09:37<GreyFoxx>Even backends don't need storage local
09:37<setuid>But the backend, I was told last night at the talk, that all music/movies/photos and the database had to exist on that box.
09:38<GreyFoxx>my recordings are in a large raid on my master backend, my mythvideo content is in a raid array on my slave backend.
09:38<GreyFoxx>my slave nfs mounts the masters myth directory and both write recordings there
09:38<setuid>Ok, here's an approach: is it possible to have two backend databases that one mythtv instance talks to? One for Parents and one for Children?
09:38<GreyFoxx>and the frontends nfs mount the music, photos, videos and recordings from the 2 of them
09:38<justinh>setuid: possible but impractical
09:38<GreyFoxx>setuid: not feasible
09:38<GreyFoxx>without a LOT of code changes
09:39<setuid>I'm not afraid of diving into the code... I'm just looking for a way to separate what my daughter can see/use and what she can't.
09:39<hads>setuid: These are really user questions.
09:39<GreyFoxx>setuid: don't make it harder than it has to be
09:39<setuid>hads, They're kind-of both, because I'll have to be adding code to the engine to support most of these.
09:39<setuid>GreyFoxx, Agreed. :D
09:40<GreyFoxx>some mods to the frontend for displaying the guide, and some small mythvideo mods and you should be fine
09:40<justinh>setuid: some of us have lists of stuff we wouldn't mind working on. parental controls is somewhere in mine. not that I'd use it myself right now but I can see its usefulness
09:40<setuid>I'm thinking about using some Koolu boxes for the front-ends (5W machines), and a massive server on the backend for storage and encoding.
09:41<setuid>At some point, I'd like to see if I can replace what the Slingbox does, with something bolted onto the MythTV install
09:41<justinh>again this is material for next door
09:42<setuid>My friend uses his Slingbox when he travels, to watch video on his cellphone while he's on the road, and watch his home recordings while he's in remote hotels around the world.
09:42<setuid>justinh, Ok, I'll trundle there and ask away.
09:45<GreyFoxx>setuid: the flash player in mythweb would do that for receordings
09:45<GreyFoxx>it doesn't do mythvideo content though
09:45<GreyFoxx>and it's in svn trunk only
09:45<setuid>What is "mythvideo content"?
09:45<GreyFoxx>non recordings
09:45<GreyFoxx>so DVD rips, xvid encoded stuff etc
09:45<GreyFoxx>mythvideo is the plugin used to access all that
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11:49<Hendrik>i've a problem with my installation of mythtv
11:51<gbee>Hendrik: support is handled in #mythtv-users
11:51*justinh points that-a-way, towards the channel topic >>>>
11:51<Hendrik>after using make, i get a message "cannot find -lqt-mt"; collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
11:51<Hendrik>ok. thanks
11:51<Hendrik>sorry. my fault
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12:51<xris>gbee: so perl + upnp seems to work
12:54<gbee>I've made changes to the preview generator so it can be used on DVDs (isos/vobs in mythvideo), by default it will grab a screenshot of the DVD Menu
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12:54<gbee>can also be used on videos which have a seektable
12:55<gbee>so mythvideo can show preview images instead of posters if a poster isn't available
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12:56<gbee>won't be committed before 0.21 though and I've not made the changes to mythvideo yet, but it doesn't require the backend be installed on the same machine as the videos
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13:00<xris>gbee: that's slick.. will help a TON with my tv archives
13:04<xris>I still want cover art lookup in the non-config section... browsing through hundreds of files in a list is really annoying.
13:04<xris>guess I *could* just put my tv archives back into the tv area.. but that's no fun.
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13:08<GreyFoxx>xris: yeah, it would be nice if the video manager had a browse like tree where you could navigate folders, or even just tell it to trim the list to show onlyt stuff matching a pattern or stuff with no info
13:17<kormoc>or use the web interface :P
13:18<GreyFoxx>True, true. Other than when it first when in I haven't really used it since
13:19<kormoc>Honestly, and not to toot my own horn, it's quite usabe now imho, tho I'm always loving feedback to make it better
13:30*GreyFoxx opens the webeditor heh
13:30<GreyFoxx>hmmm I should give the apache user the ability tot write out the cover art
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13:32<xris>kormoc: I do use the web interface. that's what prompted me to want that feature in gallery mode, too.
13:32<kormoc>heh, fair 'nuff
13:32<xris>the web interface isn't in the same room as the tv. sometimes I forget to run a scan on the web interface but want to pull in descriptions for new stuff
13:33<GreyFoxx>kormoc: ahhh man I shoulda been doing this everytime I update stuff
13:33<kormoc>GreyFoxx, glad you like it :)
13:34<kormoc>xris, I guess I'm just way too lazy to even attempt editing on the tv itself
13:34<GreyFoxx>I've updated 4 in the span it wouldhave taken me to do 1
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13:42<GreyFoxx>kormoc: Seriously thanks for reminding me of this. I just updated a ton of stuff and it was dead simple :)
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14:26<GreyFoxx>wow, less than 400 open tickets.....
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14:30<gbee>GreyFoxx: that's like saying "Everest is only 29,000ft high" ;)
14:32<danielk22>There are only 98 0.21 tickets, 10 of which are marked major, critical or blocker.
14:33<MrGandalf>I see you closed a bunch of oldies..
14:34<danielk22>Yeah, but I haven't reviewed even half of them yet...
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14:35<stuarta>dammit. osx frontend crashes everytime i leave upcoming recordings
14:36<MrGandalf>I haven't had a chance to look at 15760 relating to 4566 yet.
14:39<danielk22>MrGandalf: I'm not sure it fixes things, but there is maybe a 50/50 chance.
14:40<MrGandalf>danielk22: problem is, the bug only shows up every 1-2 days
14:42<MrGandalf>I have another odd problem I need to track down this coming weekend.. relating to duplicate channums again. I have several channels which show up on only 2 of my 4 frontends, all running pretty much the same code. Very odd.
14:42<gbee>lets see if I can't close a couple of tickets tonight ...
14:44*gbee aims at the low hanging fruit first
14:44<nordenm>I'm looking forward to when 0.21 is released.. That's when I switch from beeing a user to beeing helpful by using the svn version and submitting patches :P
14:44<danielk22>MrGandalf, I think I saw that to when testing something the other day. A slave backend wasn't able to see guide data in lineups that weren't attached to local inputs. I didn't investigate any further as I thought it was just a broken setup..
14:46<gbee>ok, that's new - "libdvdread: Error cracking CSS key"
14:50<MrGandalf>danielk22: well, I've only one backend right now. On two of my backends, one affected, the other not, I made sure both were running the exact same code and even copied the settings from the good one to the bad and it changed nothing. It was the oddest thing. I have something broken somewhere I just can't tell where.
14:51<MrGandalf>but my new Windows frontend is fine.. very odd.
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14:55<stf28>hello the world
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15:15<stuarta>this look like something we've recently fixed?
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15:27<sphery>Looks to me like if a user enables AutoExpireInsteadOfDelete and deletes a missing recording it will never be removed (and remain in the Deleted recgroup) since the autoexpirer refuses to delete shows whose files don't exist... Looks like we need a check for non-existent files in MainServer::DoHandleDeleteRecording() line 1985.
15:31<sphery>Or perhaps in the else at programs/mythbackend/mainserver.cpp +681 (in MainServer::customEvent(), handling AUTO_EXPIRE) with a call to DoHandleDeleteRecording() specifying forceMetadataDelete.
15:31<sphery>Thoughts, anyone?
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15:33<MrGandalf>speaking of autoexpire from deleted, have there been problems with that recently? my livetv mountpoint filled up this morning and I don't know why (though I haven't checked into it either)
15:33<gbee>sphery: so long as we check that the file is really missing and not that it's temporarily unavailable (nfs share offline)
15:34<gbee>I think checking the filesize in the database ought to be enough to determine that the recording failed
15:34<sphery>Yeah, but what about users who delete files...
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15:34<gbee>sphery: screw them - user error, own fault etc
15:34<sphery>That's how I found the issue, too (a user with a broken user job)
15:35<gbee>sphery: I'm not sure we can really handle that situation without breaking things for the case I described above (offline nfs/samba share)
15:35<sphery>I think, though, that you're right--it may just be an offline share, so it's better to not expire it--even if it's in Deleted recgroup--and force the user to go into Watch/Delete recordings and select the Deleted recgroup and re-delete the show.
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15:36<sphery>Thanks for the sanity check, though.
15:36<gbee>better to have metadata with no recording, than to delete the metadata and leave the file because then the user is going to have real problems
15:37<sphery>And now, I know how to explain how to delete the metadata and why it's that way.
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15:49<MrGandalf>I have a nice little cleanup/archive script that could be added to contrib, but running it can be danderous if you don't know what you're doing
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15:51<sphery>MrGandalf: how does it differ from and/or (or does it replace those with a new script that uses the Perl bindings :)?
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15:52<MrGandalf>sphery: I haven't looked at those, but yes, it does use the bindings, to a small extent.
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15:53<MrGandalf>sphery: what I prefer about mine is that it has a debug mode that tells you all it would do
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15:54<sphery>IMHO, any script that replaces those legacy scripts with a bindings-enabled script is a good thing. I'd love to see an svn rm on those... (and
15:55<sphery>I have a work-in-progress on a script to replace some or all of them (and
15:55<MrGandalf>if you think it's better, I'll add it to a ticket
15:57<sphery>definitely should replace
15:57<sphery>still getting to archive mode--may want to suggest replaceing, too
15:58<sphery>Actually, I'd suggest you recommend replacing them both in your ticket...
15:58<justinh>sphery: great if packagers start including the bindings
15:58<sphery>They're included by default, now, because they're required for MythWeb.
15:59<justinh>hahaha that'll show em! :)
15:59<sphery>(I think they're used by parts of MythWeb.) I know they're used by and several other contrib scripts.
16:00<MrGandalf>the problem with using the bindings is you have to update the script's "use ..." clause.
16:00<sphery>MrGandalf: To make a case for replacing with storage groups support, there's no longer a need for symlinks, so it's been superseded by changes
16:01<sphery>The use should only require "use MythTV;"
16:01<sphery>Unless the person installing Myth has hacked the bindings installation to move it, i.e. to /usr/local even though their Perl is installed in /usr
16:02<xris>sphery: perl bindings not used by mythweb. but necessary for nuvexport and a bunch of contrib stuff
16:03<sphery>I stand corrected. Thanks.
16:03<sphery>You're also a much better person to explain how the use MythTV should work (i.e. should require a use lib--as in --right?)
16:03<MrGandalf>sphery: the perl bindings might be better with a Makefile.PL. I'll create a ticket for that script then.
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16:04<sphery>I'm not sure what you mean. When I install Myth, it creates a Makefile.PL in bindings/perl
16:05<sphery>or, it's there to begin with and creates the makefile or however it works... (I don't know perl...)
16:05<MrGandalf>ah, so it does :)
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16:06<sphery>But, thank you very much for writing that script--I didn't want to write a script to replace those two, but the legacy (and now somewhat broken) code in them was annoying enough that I planned to do it.
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16:07<MrGandalf>sphery: np, I wrote it for selfish reasons :) Looks like the perl bindings have been updated.. when I first started using them I found I needed the use clause since "make install" didn't put the module in any normal place
16:08<sphery>Yeah. They've come a long way since xris first started working on them. Thanks, xris. :)
16:10<xris>hey, some random person donated $100 to a charity in my name in december... I figure it must be myth-related. kind of cool
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16:23<kormoc_>xris, do you get a tax break cause it was in your name?
16:23*kormoc_ ponders
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16:26<xris>kormoc: no clue. but if I did, I can't count the pile of donations I gave away to family for christmas
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16:37<sphery>Hmm. Trying to figure out how to pass the DB password to mysqldump for a DB backup. I can use -p<password>, but some (i.e. Cardoe, per #3762) won't like that. Interactive is out of the question.
16:38<kormoc>sphery, .my.cnf
16:38<kormoc>or as an env var
16:38<Cardoe>what kormoc said
16:38<sphery>So the only "more-secure option" is to have it in a config file (/etc/my.conf, ~/.my.conf).
16:39<kormoc>sadly, aye
16:39<sphery>But what about, i.e., ps that allows dumping the environment...
16:39<kormoc>other then perhaps faking interactive
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16:39<Cardoe>putting it in my.cnf won't allow you to run into any issues.
16:39<kormoc>yeah, .my.cnf is the preferred way (per mysql)
16:39<sphery>Can you specify another location for a my.cnf
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16:40<kormoc>via an option to the client, I think
16:40<sphery>Doesn't seem to be one in mysqldump...
16:40<jblack>bleh. I really wish that #mythtv-dev was the development channel, and #mythtv was for users
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16:40<Cardoe>sphery: --defaults-file
16:41<sphery>This is why I wanted to do the backup myself, but there are so many version-specific issues in determining the info I need from SHOW statements that it's unreasonable.
16:41<Cardoe>or --defaults-extra-file
16:41<Cardoe>sphery: I personally use the mysqlautobackup script
16:41<Cardoe>sorry automysqlbackup
16:42<sphery>I like the --defaults-extra-file... Thanks. With --defaults-file, I'd have to copy the global file that would be used, then scan through it to see if it has the password, then add the section if necessary.
16:42<sphery>extra seems good.
16:43<sphery>Though, does ~/.my.cnf count as a "global" file? I.e. would it read my password-only temporary defaults-extra-file if the user only had a .my.cnf?
16:44<sphery>automysqlbackup is interesting, but I'm trying to ensure that we only do backups when it won't adversely affect recordings or playback or ...
16:50<sphery>Cardoe: I think I'll be handling the locking issues you specified in #3762, but the backup will have all the data and the create table statements, so users doing a partial restore (i.e. ) may still need to grep for the appropriate INSERT statements for the appropriate tables (leaving the rest).
16:51<Cardoe>oh like that
16:51<kormoc>sphery, it gets a tad more complicated, but a lot of backusp to one file per table and a table-create.sql for the create statements
16:51<Cardoe>for the documentation
16:53<Cardoe>sphery: are you updating the docs, or trying to setup your own automated backup?
16:53<kormoc>Cardoe, attempting to add backups to the myth housekeeping thread
16:53<sphery>Currently looking at: mysqldump --defaults-extra-file=<filename> --add-drop-table --add-locks --allow-keywords --comments --complete-insert --extended-insert --lock-all-tables --no-create-db --quick --set-charset
16:53<sphery>extra file with password, just in case
16:54<sphery>nothing else
16:54<Cardoe>why use mysqldump when you can just do the native SQL statements?
16:54<sphery>--no-create-db because we should still use mc.sql (since it sets privileges,e tc)
16:54<Cardoe>if you already have a process
16:54<Cardoe>that process has access to your database config info
16:54<Cardoe>look at how phpmyadmin does backups
16:54<Cardoe>it doesn't call mysqldump
16:55<clever>show create table recorded;
16:55<sphery>to use the native SQL, I have to use SHOW statements to get the info about the DB (or it has to be changed with every DB schema change). There are enough version specific differences involved in the SHOW statements that I thought it was inappropriate.
16:55<Cardoe>why do you have to use show?
16:56<sphery>i.e. in 5.0.1, SHOW TABLES includes views, in 5.0.0 and 5.0.1, it doesn't. In 5.0.2, SHOW FULL TABLES was added to distinguish between tables and views, and since views shouldn't be backed up...
16:56<sphery>(at least not as a CREATE TABLE)
16:56<Cardoe>If someone is using 5.0.0 or 5.0.1, they should be shot.
16:56<sphery>how else do I find out what tables, columns, ... exist to back up
16:56<Cardoe>That was pre-alpha
16:56<sphery>The differences continue in all the places I touched.
16:57<Cardoe>sphery: why not backup the whole thing?
16:57<sphery>How do you do that with native SQL?
16:58<sphery>BACKUP TABLE is deprecated and just copies the binary files, so it's not very useful when changing versions of MySQL or for "partial" restores.
16:58<sphery>all other backup-type support does the same.
16:58<sphery>(including mysqlhotcopy)
16:59<Cardoe>seriously though.. I would NOT worry about 5.0.0 and 5.0.1
16:59<sphery>mysqldump is a good way of getting an SQL snapshot, and--since it's shipped with mysql--it has all the version-specific knowledge it needs (i.e. it's the same version as the DB).
16:59<Cardoe>anything before 5.0.3 had serious corruption issues.
16:59<Cardoe>like I said those are pre-alpha versions
16:59<sphery>well, we've officially dropped support for anything before 5.0, but didn't say anything about 5.0.2 being the minimum.
16:59<sphery>And, really, it's more than just that.
16:59<Cardoe>read MySQLs own site
17:00<Cardoe>5.0.14 I believe was the first "official" release.
17:00<Cardoe>does the list of tables change that often?
17:01<sphery>I actually have nearly all the code for the "native" backup, but it will have far more issues than just using mysqldump. And, since the issues are likely to only be found when some poor unsuspecting user tried to restore a DB from a backup, saying, "thanks for reporting a bug, time to wipe your DB and lose all your history" isn't something I want to have to do. :)
17:01<Cardoe>SELECT * INTO OUTFILE 'tbl_name.sql' FROM 'tbl_name';
17:01<Cardoe>is the typical way applications can create backups internally
17:01<sphery>into outfile requires permissions that most users probably haven't granted
17:02<sphery>and different permissions depending on mysql version...
17:02<sphery>but, if nothing else, requires a global file permission
17:02<sphery>and the location to which they can write is limited by user/DB issues.
17:03<Cardoe>as per the MythTV docs, those privileges exist.
17:03<Cardoe>MythTV docs and the mc.sql file that is provided by default does GRANT ALL
17:03<Cardoe>so outfile is allowed
17:03<sphery>IMHO, an automated backup solution that doesn't necessarily work right in all situations is probably worse than having no automated backup solution at all. :)
17:04<sphery>GRANT ALL ON mythconverg.* does not grant FILE
17:04<sphery>FILE is a global privilege
17:05<Cardoe>5.0.15 was the official release of 5.0.x
17:05<Cardoe>It's pretty safe to require at least that version
17:05<Cardoe>because no distro shipped a version less then that
17:05<Cardoe>and if someone out there is running something less then 5.0.2.. well I can guarantee they're not.
17:06*kormoc downgrades to 5.0.1
17:07<Cardoe>I'd actually like to see someone use 5.0.1 and try to use MythTV
17:07<Cardoe>I know the early 5.0.x versions weren't compatible with themselves..
17:07<Cardoe>i.e. they left out some SQL parsing handling
17:07<kormoc>I ran myth from the 5.0.0 pre-releases till current
17:07<Cardoe>like NOT didn't exist
17:09<Cardoe>requiring 5.0.2 instead of 5.0.0 isn't that big of a demand
17:12<sphery>Well, there are other issues, too. encoding/charset issues. The 5.0.x stuff was one example. Look through mysqldump.c to see a lot more issues you'd have to consider (that they don't since they're the same version as MySQL server--and they even have access to the C API, which I can't use).
17:12<sphery>I just figure, since they seem to have a working solution.
17:13<Cardoe>using grep on mysqldump is a bad idea.
17:13<sphery>Though, for those whose backend doesn't have MySQL installed...
17:14<sphery>Do up the patch for the docs, and I'm sure Robert will fix it. :)
17:14<Cardoe>the fact that it needs a patch is stupid
17:14<Cardoe>it's a 1 line change
17:15<sphery>actually, you have to explain that your approach requires that the user create the "new hardware" backup before dropping the DB (i.e. before the old hardware fails ;)
17:15<Cardoe>marking the ticket as closed when there is no owner is bad practice too
17:15<Cardoe>how in the world was I suppose to get updates ;)
17:16<sphery>I think the main reason we have the grep-based approach is because the user should already have full backups.
17:16<Cardoe>I can't add myself to CC
17:17<sphery>you could have before it was closed. :) If you make a patch and reopen it, you can. :)
17:17<Cardoe>No I couldn't
17:18<Cardoe>users can't add themselves to CC on any tickets
17:18<sphery>OK. I guess the CC option was removed
17:19<Cardoe>that's been a complaint of mine for a while
17:19<sphery>didn't notice it disappeared
17:19<sphery>You may have convinced me to continue my do-the-backup-in-Myth-code approach... The whole "if MySQL isn't installed on the backend" issue...
17:21<gnome42>kormoc: the new ajax listings page is neat but I get this "Warning: Unresponsive script" popup a lot.
17:22<danielk22>I've added back the CC option for anon. FYI If you go to trac
17:22<danielk22>'s prefrerences page first and enter your name and e-mail address before creating a ticket, you will be listed as the reporter of the ticket.
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17:23<kormoc>gnome42, hrm, that's no good. What are you doing to cause it?
17:23<gnome42>Hiya Daniel :)
17:23<gnome42>kormoc: just repeated viewings of the listings page
17:24<sphery>danielk22: does the CC change only affect not-yet-created tickets? I don't see it on a random one I'm looking at ( #3731 )
17:24<gnome42>kormoc: or switching between the intro page and the listings pge
17:24<danielk22>shane, I still have a patch from you for the scheduler, "if (failedLiveCheck) ..." What is that for?
17:24<gbee>did one of those "browse across inputs" patches get committed, or did I just imagine it?
17:25<danielk22>Michael it should effect all created tickets...
17:25<kormoc>gnome42, hrm, I'll poke at it a bit
17:25<gnome42>kormoc: hmm, in the details popup I all my shows start and stop at 7PM
17:25<gnome42>kormoc: k, cool
17:25<stuarta>sphery: you probably have to log out and back in again
17:25<kormoc>gnome42, kk, I'll look into that as well
17:26<Cardoe>danielk22:, how can I add myself to the CC or fix the fact that the reporter is anonymous?
17:26<gnome42>danielk22: checking ...
17:27<danielk22>hmm, yeah it's not working here, it looks like a lot more is locked out other than the CC field.
17:28<sphery>we need that user plugin someone was making for Trac
17:28<danielk22>I guess I would have to enable TICKET_MODIFY, but there is probably a good reason why it is disabled (SPAM).
17:29<gbee>sphery: well the plugin is still available should anyone ask
17:31<danielk22>Doug, I've changed the reporter. Do you want me to also add you as a CC?
17:32<sphery>kormoc: do you know if --lock-all-tables requires any special privileges since it's a global read lock "on all tables across all databases"--i.e. with a default mythtv mysql user (GRANT ALL ON mythconverg.*), would it work?
17:32<kormoc>hrm. if it locks access databases, then yes, if not, then no
17:33<gnome42>danielk22: that patch's purpose is make the "avoid livetv sessions" functionality unconditional for virtual cards.
17:33<kormoc>so in this case, it likely does
17:33<danielk22>shane, thx. I'll look at this patch soon...
17:33<gbee>btw the provideinfo checkbox isn't available to ordinary users - Isaac is the only one who can fix that by editing the trac workflow
17:33<gnome42>danielk22: bruce said it looked good and compiled but never said any more.
17:34<gbee>unless xris or snowman have access and want to take a crack at it
17:35<xris>I can probably edit it, but don't know how
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17:38<gbee>briand: sorry, but I've pushed back the sortkey patch to 0.22
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17:41<sphery>kormoc: Guess you're right. --lock-all-tables won't work. I'll just use --lock-tables (and make sure the code in Myth prevents others from stepping on the data to create inconsistencies).
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17:47<MrGandalf>gbee: I think the channel groups thing needs some work
17:48<gbee>MrGandalf: agreed
17:48<MrGandalf>functionally, it's fine.. I don't agree with the user interface part (small modification would fix it)
17:49<MrGandalf>I think channel group menu should be a submenu of guide instead of it's own submenu
17:49<gbee>I've not had time to really look at it, so there was no chance of it going into 0.21
17:49<MrGandalf>I've been running it (modified) for several days
17:50<gbee>MrGandalf: from what you've just said, I don't think I'd have liked the UI decisions either
17:50<MrGandalf>gbee: if you want to change groups, it's too many button presses.
17:51<gbee>as a feature it's high on my wishlist, but I've got a pretty clear idea of how it should work
17:51<MrGandalf>my thought is if you want to change groups it likely because you also want to bring up the guide
17:51<gbee>MrGandalf: exactly
17:52<MrGandalf>now if I can just figure out a way to populare the channelgroups table using eit data :)
17:53<MrGandalf>I also like the idea of dynamic groups.. for instance "Comedy", "Series", etc..
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17:55<gbee>CDev: any thoughts on this patch?
17:57<gbee>MrGandalf: we discussed this on the xmltv lists and including channel grouping data in xmltv, preferably by the category, e.g. Sports, Comedy, Documentary, Entertainment (General mix), News etc
17:58<MrGandalf>gbee: is it possible yet to have schedulesdirect update eit data?
17:58<MrGandalf>ie: fill in missing data
17:58<gbee>dynamic groups might be something we can offer in the future, though it's more of a filter than directly related to the channel groups - "Show all channels which are showing Sport right now"
17:59<gbee>MrGandalf: no, stuarta was going to look at it but it's not currently possible
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18:00<gbee>it's more a case of EIT data updating xmltv/dd data since xmltv/dd data usually reaches the database long before EIT
18:00<MrGandalf>right, but to the user they are the same. I was thinking of specialized groups which could be added based on currently known categories. I think once channel groups goes in I'll create a patch for that
18:00<gbee>MrGandalf: yeah, the UI will all appear as one to the user
18:00<MrGandalf>gbee: maybe.. my eit data is 9 days.
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18:01<MrGandalf>but I think schedulesdirect is longer than that
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18:02<gbee>well schedulesdirect/xmltv data is also better quality usually, so you don't want descriptions etc from EIT overwriting those from xmltv
18:03<gbee>I'm sure there will be people who want it the other way around, but in most cases the only information you want from EIT is updated times, missing information and last minute program changes
18:03<MrGandalf>eit can provide quicker updates, but I'm not sure that's all that important
18:03<gbee>so I think that's the way we want to implement it initially
18:04<janneg>danielk22: I'm about adding number of decoding threads to the display profiles. anything special consider?
18:04<gbee>you can mix xmltv/eit already, but the results aren't always what you want or expect
18:04<MrGandalf>would be hard to implement. I've found my EIT data rarely matches schedulesdirect (title/subtitle)
18:05<danielk22>janne, not that I can think of. There is already an option for setting the number of threads to use for transcoding; but this is different enough that I don't think it should be controlled by the same variable...
18:07<gbee>is the number of processors not something that we can auto-detect from the system?
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18:14<janneg>the setting for transcoding it is iirc in the recording profiles which doesn't make much sense for playback
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18:21<janneg>gbee: we could, but not in portable way and there should be a way to overide the autodetection
18:22<danielk22>janne, I can also see someone only wanting to allow one processor for transcoding even if they allow multiple processors for video playback..
18:22<gbee>janneg: I'm only thinking of the initial value, overriding it should of course be possible but anything we can do to get h.264 decoding working out of the box for first time users is good IMHO
18:24<gbee>portability isn't something I'd be too concerned about, if win32/osx/unix users want it to work on their platforms they can implement it but that shouldn't hold us back from doing it for linux
18:25*gbee wonders if QT has any stuff for getting general system/hardware information in a platform independant way
18:26<janneg>I'll add first the manual setting, and if I have time I'll look into implementing auto detection
18:33<briand>gbee: no worries. :)
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18:35<gbee>briand: I should have made more of an effort when you first produced the patch, but as I think I said before, I wasn't 100% happy with creating a duplicate column just for sorting and wanted to see if I could think of a workable alternative - I still haven't ;)
18:38<briand>gbee: I know. :) ...and, there've been enough other changes in mythmusic and the themes that I need to start anew on the whole submission. No biggie. I'll get the updated stuff submitted sometime after 0.21 is official, and we can work from there...
18:39<briand>the only viable alternative is to mangle the artist names in a similar fashion to the way we mangle video titles, and that really wouldn't work, either...
18:40<briand>..and, one of these days, I'd like to try to figure out what the "compilation_artist" thing is supposed to accomplish -- whatever it is, I don't think it's doing it on my system. ;)
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19:03<justinh>briand: so you can have 'various artists' tracks but still list the track artist AFAIK
19:03<justinh>e.g. for compilation albums etc
19:07<justinh>I have a lot of those, most of my collection being essentials from my life as a spinner of tunes
19:07<justinh>was thinking about sleep but I think counting fonts will help ;)
19:08<justinh>realised what I've started. I may live to regret it
19:11<justinh>well, maybe I'll see fit to update some default graphics while I'm about it
19:25<sphery>Hmmm. I wonder why when I trigger the httpserver/preview failure (100% CPU thing), it only causes my master backend's CPU to max out. The slave backend is virtually unaffected, though requests are sent to the slave from MythWeb and it generates previews.
19:26<briand>justinh: I thought so, too... but it doesn't actually work that way (at least, here on my system). :shrug:
19:28<briand>perhaps my mp3 files are missing some critical tag for that function to work.. dunno.
19:29<briand>sphery: because the process (or portion thereof) that maxes out the CPU is on the master backend?
19:31-!-Netsplit <-> quits: ahbritto
19:31<gbee>sphery: I think, though without any evidence to support the theory, that it's connected to the number of concurrent requests queued
19:31<gbee>so your slave backend may be handling less requests than the master backend
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19:32<justinh>briand: as with everything it relies on proper tagging ;)
19:33<sphery>gbee: Quite possible... I guess it's possible that most of the recordings at the "top" of the list are on my master backend.
19:34<briand>justinh: no doubt. :) ..which begs the question, how is "Ebony & Ivory" or "The Girl Is Mine" properly tagged? ...not to mention "We Are The World" which wasn't even released on an album? :)
19:34<gbee>justinh, briand: works better if you import your CDs through mythmusic
19:34<justinh>gbee: planning a big re-rip sometime when I get time
19:34*justinh laughs
19:35<briand>gbee: remember that the largest portion of my collection is singles (Top 100 material), not albums
19:35<justinh>briand: so comp. artist is mostly pointless for you then
19:35<danielk22>Is mythweb requesting previews for all videos or just re-requesting previews for the same recordings repeatedly, or something else? I ask because the preview generator itself doesn't do any rate limiting. In the frontend that is all done in playbackbox.cpp.. I don't think the web service does any rate limiting.
19:35<briand>justin, you could be doing that now, instead of counting fonts! ;)
19:35*briand ducks.
19:35<sphery>gbee: Don't we still have a bunch of no-longer-used MythMusic tables in the DB? Are they coming out, i.e. post 0.21 release?
19:36<briand>sphery: there's at least one whole set of tables, yes.
19:36<justinh>briand: sacked the count. just hacking instead.
19:36<xris>danielk22: there's a bug in some LANG settings that makes mythweb re-request all previews
19:36<xris>instead of only the ones that have changed
19:36<sphery>danielk22: It seems that right now there's a bug in MythWeb that--at least on some systems/configs--results in re-requesting every preview every time.
19:36<danielk22>LANG settings??
19:37<gbee>danielk22: there are a couple of bugs, neither in the preview generator itself - one seems to be mythweb requesting previews for all recordings despite having cached versions available and the other is in the http server somewhere (we use an XML based method to fetch previews and not the protocol)
19:37<justinh>gbee: G.A.N.T isnt happy with a medium of 16pt. 15 is fine though. this could be a long job
19:37<sphery>However, even then, the httpserver should be finding the cached version of the preview.
19:37<justinh>oh wait. duh I should only be messing with default ui files not themes
19:38<gbee>justinh: that's where I would start anyway
19:38<justinh>who wants to do mytharchive?
19:38<justinh>actually I know of a way to cheat with that :)
19:38<danielk22>gbee: ic
19:38<gbee>justinh: let's not open that can of worms ;)
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19:38<justinh>font name="foo" base="nameoffontinbase.xml" :P
19:38<sphery>it does seem the httpserver gets overwhelmed, but I set up a little perl hack that went through the entire list of recordings and requested one preview for each with a 5-second sleep between each.
19:39<sphery>It still maxed out the CPU after about 10 previews.
19:39<justinh>problem solved. some other sucker can rationalise fonts later
19:39<sphery>so just rate limiting won't work.
19:39<gbee>sphery: yeah, something isn't right in there, I just haven't gone digging yet
19:39*justinh gets to work on that instead
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19:41<gbee>I fixed the original mythxml preview generator issues so that we don't even bother calling the preview generator in 99% of cases - there is usually no need as we have a preview thumbnail already available which we can then scale to the size requested by mythweb
19:41<xris>gbee: default thumbnails are HD-sized now, though, right?
19:41<gbee>which is why I know these problems aren't caused by the preview generator as everyone originally expected
19:41<xris>or largish?
19:42<sphery>Yeah. The whole reason xris started doing the requests was to get better scaling
19:42<gbee>xris: defaults are larger than are needed for most purposes, whilst still being 'thumbnails'
19:42<sphery>looks like default is 320x240
19:42<gbee>320x240 iirc
19:43<xris>still a bit small, but not bad
19:43<xris>won't affect most people
19:43<sphery>won't stop users from complaining. ;)
19:43<xris>would still be nice to get aspect ratio and a few other things like that put in the db.
19:43<gbee>we can bump that up further if needed and though I can't remember, I think I would have designed it so that if you request an even larger image we will fire off the preview generator to create it
19:44<gbee>but most requests can be serviced from the existing thumbnail
19:44<justinh>heh. status-ui.xml 4:3 used Arial, the -wide version used Trebuchet MS
19:45<gbee>justinh: are you settling on a default (preferably non-MS) font for those default themes?
19:46<justinh>leaving the fonts as they were for now
19:46<sphery>Yeah. I think status-ui could use some mods (I have a local patch that changes the font/size for it because it wasn't very usable)
19:46<gbee>I know Isaac didn't like the look of Dejavu-Sans compared to Arial for GANT, but something like that might make a better default for everything else
19:46<xris>gbee: I can test that later if I remember
19:47<gbee>xris: I can look at the code pretty quickly, hang on
19:48<justinh>gbee: I'll deal with sorting the inheritance out first, then think about changing font faces
19:49<gbee>justinh: sure
19:49<justinh>then rationalise them later. the rationalising can wait til after 0.21
19:49<xris>oh well. time for me to think about going home. er, going to watch some usability study
19:49<justinh>besides I have themes I want to break before then with the remoteedit change in mythmusic search if nobody objects
19:50<justinh>yeah different matter when I'm the one doing the breaking.. I admit that. I'll still moan about it though - you know me ;)
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19:52<gbee>xris: ok, I didn't design it that way - which was pretty stupid of me, I'll fix that so you a least have the option of requesting even bigger previews
19:52<justinh>gbee: have a possible other use for the grid layout widget - an onscreen 'key' for remoteedit - if you think it's a good idea that is
19:53<gbee>different from the existing on-screen keyboard?
19:53<sphery>danielk22: IIRC, you mentioned someowhere a FILO queue for the preview generator. If that's right, it sounds like that plus previewGeneratorMaxRunning (=2) may be very bad for the httpserver stuff...
19:53<justinh>gbee: a key to show you what characters the number keys produce
19:54<justinh>I mocked it up last night
19:54<gbee>ahh, key as in legend?
19:55<gbee>if you've got a mockup I'll take a look
19:55<sphery>gbee: Not stupid of you--getting any fix to take the preview generator out of the equation for debugging the 100% CPU things was good. So it must have been a quick "until we fix the other issues" decision of yours. :)
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19:56<gbee>sphery: yeah, well at the very least it made preview generation for mythweb faster - it's just unfortunate that the other bugs mask the speed improvements
19:59<gbee>ok, that's odd - for the first time the "back to back recordings with global post/pre roll on the same channel" worked as I expected it to once multirec was merged - they were moved to different recorders
20:00<gbee>did I miss a new commit in the last 24/48 hours?
20:00<gbee>The requested URL /images/remoteeditmockup.png was not found on this server.
20:00<justinh>typo. try again :)
20:01<sphery>Hmmm. Seems the only previewGeneratorQueue is in playbackbox, so it wouldn't have an effect on the httpserver (which would truly have no rate limiting).
20:01<justinh>very rough - need to play with size & position obviously but you get the jist
20:01<gbee>cool, yeah mythlistbutton would be well suited for that sort of layout
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20:02<justinh>gbee: needn't even be active buttons
20:02<gbee>justinh: active buttons would allow mouse input
20:02<gbee>maybe overkill though since the number of buttons isn't ever going to change
20:02<justinh>heh cool :)
20:02<sphery>BTW, gbee for your tarball icons: (but probably hard to draw :)
20:03<gbee>hehe :D
20:04<gbee>well it's a good idea
20:05<gbee>I'll wait for xris to decide if he's going to go with the CD icons - if not he probably won't want icons for tarballs and rpms either
20:06<justinh>oh just remembered something else too - you know you were talking about the possibility of having extra buttons onscreen for 'back' etc for mouse operation? would it be possible to make them time out & re-appear on movement of the cursor again?
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20:07<justinh>might be too much work for little gain though. all stuff on my 'maybe one day' list
20:08<gbee>justinh: possible, not even difficult, though the main target would be touchscreens and so it might not work very well
20:10<justinh>aye that's true
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20:20<justinh>52 fonts in mythvideo !
20:21<justinh>43 in mythweather. oh wow there's some work ahead
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20:31<justinh>got the base fonts declared in core themes. will update mine tomorrow & will notify 3rd party themers of their presence
20:33<justinh>have a massive patch ready to go in but I'll hold off til it's tested
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20:35<sphery>Who could possibly need more than 640 fonts?
20:36<kormoc>Are these different fonts?
20:36*kormoc blinks
20:37<justinh>kormoc: inheritance seems to have fallen by the wayside somewhere, probably by falling into the same trap I initially did - basing themes on existing ones which didn't make use of it
20:37<sphery>(mine was an obscure reference to the 640kB memory thing, but the numbers justinh gave are still amazing)
20:38<sphery>that and the "quick fixes" where people don't look at what's in there when they submit a change
20:38<justinh>those aren't necessarily 'different' fonts but they're the number of times font faces are defined
20:38*kormoc nods
20:38<justinh>mostly superfluous & something I fully intend to sort out
20:38<kormoc>sphery, (640k is obscure? Heh :) )
20:38<kormoc>Does it actually impact memory at all?
20:38<justinh>dont think so
20:38<kormoc>fair 'nuff
20:39<sphery>Are you doing osd themes, too? We init an unbelievable number of fonts for the OSD--even above and beyond the OSD-theme defined fonts.
20:39<justinh>it might very well though - never tested that or looked in the code for it
20:39<sphery>the UI code shouldn't affect memory much since it's using QT's font caching.
20:40<sphery>We have our own font caching in the OSD (since we need to use freetype directly), and it's not really implemented right.
20:40<justinh>even so it's a bloody quagmire for themers ;
20:40<sphery>GreyFoxx was working on an improved cache (which would help a lot and be the basis for fixing it to cache properly).
20:40<justinh>thanks for reminding me about the OSD themes btw. dunno if they can inherit base fonts though
20:41<sphery>Though, if there are truly hundreds of mostly-identical, but slightly different fonts defined, it would have an effect on memory usage--even in the UI.
20:41<justinh>I plan to whittle em all down to as few as possible
20:41<justinh>probably try to come up with a common colour code scheme for various textual features too (recording, will record, etc)
20:42<sphery>That would be good--if for no other reason than maintainability. I also like the "logical" descriptions you're using (i.e. small, rather than "fontForTheStatusUIBodyText" ;)
20:42<justinh>and last but by no means least - easier to read definitions
20:42<justinh>overunderrecfont.. wth is that? ;)
20:43<sphery>So, when this is done will "overriding" a theme's fonts be as simple as putting a fonts.xml file in ~/.mythtv somewhere?
20:43<sphery>I.e. change small to 14pt, in that little file.
20:43<justinh>when all is said & done about font inheritance I never bothered to understand it for a long time. sounds silly I know but it seemed way over my head til I realised
20:45<sphery>well, learning myth's theming approach is a big enough challenge that you can't do it all in one go.
20:45<justinh>sphery: initially this is just about making a theme define the fonts used in the UI. making all the ui.xml files use a base font from the theme base.xml rather than hard-code it in the plugin/ui code xml
20:46<sphery>You did an amazing job with your themes right from the start--I'm still using one of them. :)
20:46<justinh>right now we've got Arial being used in some UI files, Bistream Vera in others - not following the base theme fonts
20:46<justinh>the differences will be subtle, but hopefully noticable
20:46<justinh>and if nothing else, easier to maintain
20:47<justinh>sphery: they all need a font overhaul too, but they can wait
20:48<sphery>Even if people don't notice the differences directly, their not noticing different fonts where fonts should be (and now are) identical will be a huge plus.
20:48<justinh>when all the area inheritance in mythui is pulled into play, it's gonna be a whole much easier ballgame for themers
20:50<justinh>sphery: look at glass-wide. I think every single font is defined in theme.xml, barring one or two local variations - but even they inherit from those in theme.xml
20:51<sphery>Is that one finished, yet?
20:52<justinh>yeah. just needs one or 2 things sorting to be trunk ready
20:52<sphery>If so, I need to hit your site (and maybe this time I'll actually send you the donation I've been meaning to send).
20:52<sphery>Though waiting may be better for you (if the US $ ever comes back :)
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20:53<justinh>if I'd done the fonts etc properly in my original themes in the 1st place maybe I'd be more willing to keep them on
20:53<justinh>but - you live a while & learn a thing or two...
20:54<kormoc>and forget three or four...
20:54<sphery>maybe some of us can help out with the existing themes.
20:56<justinh>IIRC there are still a handful of missing watermark icons for the core themes
20:57<justinh>I was trying to catch up with them a while back but got sidetracked with er.. attempting to code & stuff
20:57<justinh>reminds me I still need to sort out the new one for that feature in all the themes
20:58<justinh>one for tomorrow.. my list is still too big
21:03<justinh>the windows fanboy I worked with said something nice about mythtv today. asked how come myth has managed to keep such an unclutterred, intuitive UI when so many others have gone for trendy effects driven things that end up making little sense :) bless
21:04<justinh>he might be a fanboy but there's some balance in there somewhere
21:04<justinh>anyway.. bedtime! nn all
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22:39<kormoc>gnome42, I just commited some speed improvements as well as fixing that popup time incorrect bug
22:50<clever>ive found a bug when leaving the upcoming recording list
22:50<clever>which segfaults
22:53<MrGandalf>sounds like another bug mentioned earlier today on osx
22:54<clever>exiting the upcoming recordings(back or a jumpoing) on ubuntu 6.06 and 7.10 causes the fault
22:55<clever>MrGandalf: do you know what ticket it wa?
22:55<kormoc>Who's the current EIT folks?
22:56<MrGandalf>clever: don't know that a ticket was created.. I think I remember janneg talking about it though
23:00<Captain_Murdoch>MrGandalf: care to test a fix for 4043?
23:01<clever>janneg and osx have never been mentioned on the same line for the past several months
23:02<clever>and when searching within 10 lines of eachother i dont see my bug
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