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#mythtv IRC Logs for 2008-02-25

---Logopened Mon Feb 25 00:00:29 2008
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02:57<stuarta>kormoc: you are after gbee
03:01*kormoc blinks
03:02<kormoc>gbee, around?
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09:13<j-rod>Anduin: are you the point man on the python bindings?
09:14<j-rod>I've got a minor issue w/'em
09:14<j-rod>which I'm too dumb to fix, since I don't know python and/or its setup/install methods that well
09:15<j-rod>basic problem is that on a 64-bit box, they're going in the wrong site-packages
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09:41<j-rod>nm. I think I'm a dummy. No compiled modules, its pure python, so that location is fine.
09:42<j-rod>I just need to figure out wtf is supposed to be in the spec then...
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09:45<Balachmar>Just to check, mythtv0.21 is still qt3.3 only right?
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09:46<Balachmar>ok, thanks. Someone just tried to convince me otherwise in lastfm irc
09:47<j-rod>ok, spec happy now
09:47<GreyFoxx>Balachmar: That person is confused :)
09:47<Balachmar>GreyFoxx: As am I :)
09:49<GreyFoxx>What are you confused about? Or do you mean in general ?:)
09:51<Balachmar>Well... I don't really want to appear too stupid... But I am still not sure on how to use a md5 function which is in mythtv already...
09:52<GreyFoxx>which one? I think amove the livemedia and libav* stuff there are a couple
09:52<GreyFoxx>among I mean
09:52<Balachmar>in libavutil
09:53<GreyFoxx>Are you just trying to get the md5sum of a string or something?
09:54<Balachmar>yes, that is me :)
09:54<Balachmar>(that also explains why I would love qt4, cause it is in there)
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09:56<Balachmar>But the object md5 is not in
09:57<Balachmar>If I do nm on that library it even says:
09:57<Balachmar>nm: /usr/local/lib/ no symbols
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10:04<Dibblah>Balachmar: That's because you're using a -release build.
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10:05<janneg>Balachmar: that's an build/nm error on your system
10:05<Dibblah>Not debug or profile. The executables are stripped.
10:05<Dibblah>0000000000004780 T av_md5_sum
10:07<janneg>Balachmar: try less /usr/local/lib/ and search for md5
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10:08<Dibblah>look in md5.c - The commented out test section.
10:09<Dibblah>janneg: You're sure they're not stripped, then?
10:11<Balachmar>Dibblah: I am developing against a svn build
10:11<stuarta>doesn't mean they aren't stripped
10:12<Dibblah>I _really_ would recommend --build-type=profile, rather than debug.
10:12<Dibblah>But am not sure how current that recommendation is :)
10:12<anykey_>gbee: a few weeks ago you mentioned a way to make the menü "horizontal", as in the buttons will float off the screen if you go to the left or to the right. How is this achievable in a theme?
10:12<Balachmar>janneg: md5 is in there I can see stuff like: @av_md5_init^@a
10:12<Dibblah>Balachmar: Seriously - The md5 stuff is documented in md5.c...
10:13<Balachmar>Dibblah: sorry I was just answering janneg
10:14<janneg>Dibblah: less displays symbols from elf tables in a stripped so
10:14<Balachmar>Dibblah: I assume you mean the md5 in avutils
10:15<janneg>I use almost always debug unless when I plan to use valgrind
10:16<gbee>anykey_: it's part of mythui, so only applies to mythcontrols and the screen settings
10:16<Dibblah>Balachmar: Yes.
10:16<Balachmar>OK, so I didn't know that I needed to build it differntly to be able to use the libraries...
10:16<Dibblah>As I said above, look at the commented out test section.
10:16<Dibblah>No, you don't.
10:16<Dibblah>That's just how to use the functions.
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10:17<Balachmar>Dibblah: this? : #ifdef TEST
10:17<Balachmar>#include <stdio.h>
10:17<Balachmar>#undef printf
10:17<anykey_>gbee: no menüs yet?
10:18<gbee>anykey_: main menus? you can do horizontal there but it doesn't work very well - they aren't using mythui (not natively anyway)
10:20<anykey_>gbee: yeah, I know the current way to do horizontal menus, but that's not what I'm searching for
10:20<gbee>ok, not possible until 0.22 then
10:21<anykey_>bad luck then
10:22<gbee>already written the code changes, but I need to redo that work and it definately won't be in 0.21, maybe a month from now in trunk ..
10:23<anykey_>yeah, no problem to use trunk here ;)
10:23<anykey_>I don't expect anything to go into 0.21 from now on anyway
10:25<janneg>gbee: can you test and commit the eit pids part of the patch in #4632?
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10:29<Balachmar>@janneg: I actually opened it in nano and searched for md5...
10:31<Balachmar>@janneg: but I can see it in less as well...
10:32<Balachmar>Dibblah: I am still confused. I an sorry if I seem so dumb, but in the md5 file the only thing I see under test commented out are 2 lines one include and one undef.
10:33<gbee>janneg: sure
10:49<j-rod>meh. dc1394 support go boom...
10:50<j-rod>#include <libdc1394/dc1394_control.h>
10:50<j-rod>is wrong...
10:50<j-rod>at least for libdc1394-2.0.1
10:50*j-rod wonders if only v1 is supported
10:50*j-rod researches
10:54<j-rod>oh. shit. yeah. ffmpeg only supports libdc1394-v1
10:55<Balachmar>Dibblah: Ooh sorry I totally overlooked! Thanks for the pointer!
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10:58<j-rod>meh. mythmusic aac support really still not build against faad2 ?
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11:03<janneg>j-rod: the problem is that fedora changes the faad2 header without indication of doing so
11:03<j-rod>janneg: ah, ok, guess I need to go back and look at the butchery the faad2 package is doing... :)
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11:05<janneg>they change ints and longs to int32_t, ...
11:07<janneg>those changes are pretty common, gentoo has them too. but on fedora it's hard to detect the change with the preprocessor
11:09<gbee>really? Seems like a pretty dumb thing to do, if they have issues with faad2 why not fix it upstream rather than shipping a version of a shared library that won't work with unmodified applications?
11:12<gbee>the sooner ffmpeg supports native aac decoding the better ...
11:12<janneg>the unmodified version might has problems on 64bit systems
11:12<j-rod>janneg: looks like in faad 2.6.1, livna doesn't do any munging anymore
11:13<gbee>janneg: possibly, that's what the fixes would suggest, but that doesn't answer the question of why they weren't submitted upstream
11:13*gbee goes to look at what mandriva do with their 64bit packages
11:14<j-rod>gbee: might have been fixed in 2.6.1. :)
11:14<j-rod>(or 'somewhere between 2.0 and 2.6.1')
11:14<j-rod>apparently, there were redistribution issues w/the license for quite a while
11:14<gbee>j-rod: ahh, didn't catch that you were running an older version :)
11:14<j-rod>I'm not.
11:15<j-rod>at least, not anymore
11:15<j-rod>but the build still fails to enable aac
11:16<gbee>ok, the problem that janneg mentioned affected older versions :)
11:17<gbee>j-rod: I guess the next step is to look at the test configure uses, I assume it's configure which is listing faad disabled?
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11:18<j-rod>yeah, getting there slowly, still prodding faad stuff a tiny bit
11:18<stuarta>meh, i haven't been able to convince the build to use AAC every.
11:22<j-rod>hrm, may be bailing due to missing libmp4ff on my end
11:22<j-rod>now where the hell is that supposed to come from...
11:22<j-rod>ew, yuk. null ptr deref in sysfs_get_inode...
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11:37<gbee>janneg: patch doesn't seem to work here
11:38<skamithi>hey gbee: regarding #4173. does that free dvd display now after all the changes i made ?
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11:46<gbee>skamithi: give me a minute and I'll find out
11:47<j-rod>janneg/gbee: livna faad2 doesn't build libmp4ff, patching it up now...
11:47<gbee>it's been sitting on my desk for a while so that I could test it
11:47<gbee>j-rod: ok
11:47<stuarta>j-rod: even doing that i couldn't convince it to be used on my debian box
11:48<stuarta>gave up in the end as i don't really need aac
11:48<j-rod>stuarta: hrm. after I bounce my laptop, I'll see what happens... I don't use it either, just trying to fix up the entire rpm build w/everything possible enabled
11:49<j-rod>only this sysfs oops appears to have left my laptop in a bad state, need to bounce it... :\
11:49*stuarta looks for an option in firefox called "don't let remote sites resize my windows"
11:49<gbee>skamithi: works perfectly, so thanks
11:51<j-rod>stuarta: Content -> Advanced... next to Enable JavaScript
11:52<gbee>j-rod beat me to it
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11:52<stuarta>its been pissing me off all day long
11:52<stuarta>along with wtf can't i get my router to respect my mtu
11:52<stuarta>wtf can't i get ppp to do 40bit mppe
11:52*j-rod goes laptop bouncing...
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12:06<j-rod>stuarta: bam. AAC support will be included in MythMusic
12:07<jams>hey j-rod does mythdora have any -release file specific to it?
12:07<jams>if so whats the name and example contents
12:07<j-rod>jams: yeah, I think it had an /etc/mythdora-release
12:08<j-rod>can't recall the exact contents, one sec...
12:10<j-rod>jams: was "MythDora release 4.0 (Will wonders never cease?)". Not of my choosing, that was Dennis. :)
12:10<jams>works for me
12:10<laga>he probably said that when he heard about mythbuntu
12:11<jams>i will add that to osdetect for smolt.
12:11<j-rod>I wanted to call it "Evil Kryptonian General", since it was based on FC6, which was called Zod
12:11<j-rod>laga: could be... ;) still need to check that out myself, but I've had shit for time for even Fedora-based mythtv fun
12:12<j-rod>(beyond working on getting everything building properly on rawhide)
12:12<laga>j-rod: i've meant to check out knoppmyth and mythdora for ages but time is a rare commodity these days :)
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12:12<j-rod>yep, I know all to well
12:13<j-rod>apparently, dennis has done a ton of work for mythdora 5, but I haven't looked at that at all either
12:14<laga>j-rod: does mythdora have support for diskless clients OOTB?
12:15<j-rod>not exactly
12:15<j-rod>like, there's no "set up diskless client" button
12:16<laga>i'm working on something like that for mythbuntu, that's why i'm wondering
12:25<j-rod>ah, cool
12:25<j-rod>janneg/gbee: so apparently, libmp4ff is supposed to be internal to faad2, not a public API...
12:26<j-rod>and we really ought to be using libmp4v2 instead
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12:28<gbee>j-rod: personally, if we're going to be re-writing that code then I'd rather wait for ffmpeg decoding support and drop faad2 entirely - after the 0.21 release I'm going to be re-writing all the metadata classes to use taglib for reading the tags anyway
12:29<j-rod>gbee: worksforme
12:30<gbee>but if janneg or someone else wants to look at fixing it prior to 0.21, then that's just fine - I just don't have the time
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12:53<j-rod>fixing things up to use libmp4v2 looks non-trivial
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13:01<phatmonkey>has there been any progress with a new or the redesign at least
13:02<phatmonkey>I'd be willing to give my hand at what needs doing
13:02<phatmonkey>oh, and are mythtv considering join this year's google soc?
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13:09<gbee>phatmonkey: unlikely to join in SoC after the last experience - waste of time
13:10<phatmonkey>what a shame! I certainly wouldn't be a waste of time...
13:10<phatmonkey>what happened last time?
13:11<stuarta>not much
13:12<gbee>phatmonkey: of ~10 projects only ~2 were completed, students just weren't really disciplined enough to work without constant supervision
13:12<phatmonkey>what happens to those students then? do they just not get paid?
13:12<gbee>and when I say that 2 were completed, it depends on your definition of completed whether you believe that is true
13:12<phatmonkey>the cash at the end seems discipline enough!
13:14<gbee>phatmonkey: about a third didn't even make their halfway payment point before dropping out the rest collected that payment before failing to finish
13:14<gbee>I'm hazy on the figures, it was a couple of years ago now
13:15<gbee>we've all been students, so I think the pattern was pretty recognisable - most of them left the work until the last couple of weeks and that just wasn't enough time to produce anything
13:16<phatmonkey>it's a shame really, I'd love to work for mythtv over the summer
13:17<phatmonkey>but working for a gsoc project instead seems more enticing
13:17<gbee>I think a lot of applicants viewed it as a paid holiday, rather than full/part-time work
13:17<phatmonkey>it all appears a little informal
13:19<gbee>I think we'd do SoC again if we could guarentee that the applicants would actually work, the devs don't have time to babysit them - we'd get more done if devs spent that time working on MythTV instead
13:21<gbee>if you get a good project, then SoC isn't a bad way to earn money and learn something as a student
13:22<phatmonkey>well, if mythtv applied, I'd certainly apply for something with mythtv
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13:35<gbee>phatmonkey: << There were 9/10 starting projects, those were the only ones still going at the end, of those only the middle three were considered complete and just one made it into mythtv
13:36<phatmonkey>gbee: I suppose it depends a lot of whether you get the right people, maybe other projects have had more luck?
13:37<gbee>even those which were 'complete', the students were just rewarded for putting in time and effort, none of them was really finished so that they could be used without work from the mentoring devs
13:37<gbee>phatmonkey: we had over 100 applicants and the vetting/interview process was pretty thorough, maybe the right questions weren't asked ...
13:39<gbee>I think the really big projects have had some success, but they naturally attracted the best applicants - everyone wants to work on apache etc
13:39<phatmonkey>gbee: it'd be interesting to hear how other projects found it. if everybody had the same experience as you did, I doubt google would still be doing the scheme!
13:39<phatmonkey>yeah, that's true
13:39<gbee>bbl, food
13:40<phatmonkey>you can turn doing all the students can't you? maybe it's worth applying and only picking a student if they are particularly outstanding and promising...
13:46<jams>phatmonkey- any specific thing in mind you wanted to work on?
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13:53<phatmonkey>I've noticed sporadic discussion of a new website, and that is something I'm skilled at
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13:54<phatmonkey>I'm not particularly experienced with C/C++ you see
13:56<jams>guess that was one of the old projects
13:56<phatmonkey>mythtv desperately needs a new site
13:57<phatmonkey>even if you didn't do the SoC, I'd be willing give a helping hand
13:58<kormoc>New layout is all done, it's just waiting on content being written (descriptions of mythplugins and the like) afaik
14:00<phatmonkey>oh I see
14:00<phatmonkey>one thing that really annoys me are the two wikis - mediawiki and trac
14:00<kormoc>That said, mythweb can use more ajax loving. I've been using 'cheat' methods to get it do be basic ajax stuff. It should all be rewritten correctly one of these days.
14:01<phatmonkey>it'd be ok if one was for development, and one for user stuff, but that isn't the case
14:01<phatmonkey>kormoc: how do you mean "cheat" methods?
14:02<kormoc>Rather then using a minimal script to pull content, uses the master one and thus the ajax calls take a full startup load hit rather then a short one
14:02<phatmonkey>ah right
14:04<kormoc>Also the JS really needs to be re-written a bit to be more standardly encapsulated rather then a huge pile of global stuff everywhere
14:05<phatmonkey>is that the new site you were talking about?
14:07<xris>kormoc: speaking of which, check out the mouseover in mythweb video for a "newly imported" video with no data
14:07<xris>phatmonkey: that's a mockup for the potential new website
14:07<phatmonkey>xris: do you know who's working on it?
14:08<xris>only not so much of the "working" lately
14:08<xris>gbee has been doing some of the art for me
14:09<xris>why do you ask?
14:09<phatmonkey>need help?
14:10<xris>can always use help... art, specifically, content second.
14:10<xris>most of the code is done.
14:10<phatmonkey>I am an experienced python/django developer, experienced with XHTML/CSS
14:10<xris>it's all php
14:11<xris>the html/css stuff needs help, but the majority of that help is art-related...
14:11<xris>getting nice corners for things, etc.
14:11<xris>I have some files from gbee that I haven't put into place yet.. stuff for schedules direct and mythweb (and non-computer life) has taken priority over the last many weeks, thogh
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14:12<phatmonkey>have you tried django or rails before? php really is.... awful
14:12<phatmonkey>not trying to controversial or anything ;)
14:12<kormoc>Php can actually be really clean and tasteful when done right
14:12<xris>php's fast and relatively lightweight. I also know it a LOT better than ruby/python
14:12<kormoc>it's just most people don't or can't do it right
14:12<gbee>I love php
14:13<kormoc>Also, deploying rails apps is a major pain in the ass that I'd rather not go though again in my life
14:13<xris>if I want extra-lightweight/speedy, I'd use perl. :)
14:13<stuarta>i can't stand ruby
14:13<gbee>oo php especially
14:13<phatmonkey>yes, but python tends to be clean and tasteful all the time
14:13<phatmonkey>yeah, ruby's awful
14:13<stuarta>or python for that matter
14:13<xris>phatmonkey: python lacks { } which drives me nuts
14:13<gbee>phatmonkey: just the things you produce with python which aren't tasteful ;)
14:14<xris>I don't "see" whitespace indentation as a good enough separator when reading code, so it makes things harder for me to read.
14:14<phatmonkey>after using php, perl and python all for large projects, python really stands out
14:14<xris>phatmonkey: I've heard nothing but good about python.. I just don't like it for myself. :)
14:14<kormoc>Did you use OO with your php?
14:14<gbee>python isn't _that_ bad, but the syntax isn't really my cup of tea
14:14<xris>php 5 + oo is pretty slick when done properly.
14:15<gbee>I'm more comfortable with languages which mirror C, e.g. Perl and PHP
14:15<phatmonkey>kormoc: yes, but it wasn't really OOP with php 4!
14:15<kormoc>phatmonkey, ahh, yeah, php 5 is so much better, and it's what we're using for mythweb-trunk now
14:16<xris>and the new though I've tried to keep that stuff extremely lightweight. no database, ettc.
14:16<phatmonkey>I agree, good code can be done with it, but you have to agree things like the lack of namespaces is such a hindrence
14:17<kormoc>It's really proving not to be if you design around the lack of the feature to start with
14:17<gbee>the other benefit of perl/php is wide support, you might find webhosts or customers who have python on their servers, but generally you limit your choice
14:17-!-stuarta [n=stuarta@unaffiliated/stuarta] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
14:17<kormoc>Python's setup is also much harder then php's (Trac... yeck)
14:18<phatmonkey>anyway - I must dash, be back later
14:18*_gunni_ is wondering that this is the first php/python/perl discussion without flame ... really nice surprise
14:18<gbee>and for compiled python, it breaks your scripts every time you upgrade
14:19<gbee>but like I said, I don't hate python, I just don't personally like it
14:19-!-stuarta [n=stuarta@unaffiliated/stuarta] has joined #mythtv
14:19<xris>_gunni_: I think if you have mature people talking (esp. developers with a wide range of language experience), such conversations tend to stay with the factual rather than the emotional.
14:19<xris>i.e. I don't like python "for me", but will happily admit that it's a really cool language.
14:20<Daviey>guys, did you see the video ^?
14:20<Daviey>Idea for >0.21
14:20<xris>on the other hand, I *hate* perl... but it's my favorite language for just about any task except smallish web projects.
14:20<_gunni_>xris: Yes i know, but often in forums after short time it gets flame, so i am positive surprised :) I like PHP,too because of the same reasons than gbee
14:22<xris>I dislike php because its developer community is "non enterprisy" meaning that they don't like to push bugfixes back to earlier versions that corporations are stuck using.. the language itself is great, with a few caveats that are easily worked around.
14:22<gbee>I'm not entirely comfortable with the idea of python plugins - the rationale for it is that python is 'easier' than c++, but that same argument counts against it, if you lower the difficultly then it's normal for the average quality to decrease as well, the last thing mythtv needs is more low quality plugins
14:23<Cardoe>xris: I actually had some patches and such for some LDAP issues I found in PHP since we use Kerberos + LDAP at my office
14:23<Cardoe>xris: the response was "here's commit access, fix them yourself"
14:23<kormoc>Cardoe, I might have some patches to toss your way then...
14:24<gbee>Cardoe: and did you? :)
14:24<Cardoe>I've tried to conform to their phpt testing framework and write up a full series of tests for the LDAP module
14:24<Cardoe>gbee: I did. I've even gone through the bug reports and fixed up all of the outstanding bugs that I could based on the info users provided.
14:25<Cardoe>gbee: part of the problem is if a ticket is inactive for 2 weeks, they close it
14:25<Cardoe>but then it can only be reopened by the user
14:25<Cardoe>and if you post a comment on the bug, the reporter doesn't get an e-mail unless it's opened
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14:26<laga>Cardoe: hey. that XML snippet which makes HAL ginore devices in your blog is broken, there's a ? missing in the first line
14:26<Cardoe>laga: maybe. lemme peek
14:26<gbee>btw, the issue of namespaces was raised in connection with PHP, IMHO that's a non-issue if you are talking about true OO php with php5, everything should belong to a class and so namespaces are irrelevant unless you are talking about huge projects
14:27<laga>Cardoe: at the end of the line, it should read ?>
14:27<Cardoe>laga: wow. I can't believe i missed that
14:28<Cardoe>thank you
14:28<laga>Cardoe: took me like half an hour :)
14:29<laga>Cardoe: i'd like to put that snippet into my mythbuntu-diskless package. i've modified it to make HAL (and networkmanager) ignore network devices
14:29<kormoc>Cardoe, namespace still has fun when you have multiple inheritance, so typically have to go with static methods or the like to be absolutely sure
14:30<Cardoe>kormoc: yeah
14:30<Cardoe>like you said though, namespaces are useless except in big projects
14:31<Cardoe>namespaces are abused sometimes
14:31<kormoc>Yeah, as is everything I'd suspect
14:33<Cardoe>is --enable-opengl-video safe for everyone to have compiled?
14:34<Cardoe>I assume there's some info on it in the 0.21 docs?
14:34<danielk22>it causes segfaults when switching between XVideo & OpenGL rendering
14:34<Cardoe>danielk22: how about --enable-xvmc-opengl
14:35<danielk22>enable-xvmc-opengl creates binaries that will only work with nvidia XvMC, I don't know how stable it is otherwise.
14:36<Cardoe>how about if we're linking to XvMCW
14:37<danielk22> XvMCW doesn't support xvmc-opengl, it's missing a function or two
14:37<danielk22>otherwise I would have used it...
14:37<Cardoe>are they nvidia specific functions or part of the spec?
14:37<gbee>janneg: this time I'm sure, the patch hasn't helped here - no passive EIT collection occurs
14:37<danielk22>nvidia specific
14:37<Cardoe>well I guess there is no spec..
14:38<Cardoe>this will improve hopefully when vaapi is out and used
14:38<danielk22>I think it was proposed at or about the time when XFree86 was falling apart, and then nVidia abandoned XvMC support, so...
14:39<Cardoe>danielk22: well they're supporting it up to GeForce 7
14:39<danielk22>It's supported so long as it kinda keeps working, they aren't fixing bugs or anything like that...
14:39<danielk22>Or implementing it on new HW.
14:39<Cardoe>danielk22: I assume Via's chrome stuff requires --enable-xvmc-pro
14:40<Cardoe>it won't work if via XvMCW as well?
14:40<danielk22>Only the new chips require enable-xvmc-pro
14:40<danielk22>I dunno, that might work with XvMCW.
14:41<Cardoe>ok for example.. this is how we're building
14:42<danielk22>VLD is also not in the XvMC spec so it may not work with XvMCW.. but then again the VIA chips are the only ones where you might actually want to use XvMC...
14:42<Cardoe>I think I tried it once on nvidia and it was screwy
14:42<danielk22>Yeah, they don't allocate enough memory for XvMC.. so it doesn't really work...
14:44<Cardoe>configure --prefix=/usr --mandir=/usr/share/man --libdir=lib64 --disable-audio-jack --disable-dbox2 --disable-hdhomerun --disable-altivec --disable-audio-arts --enable-lirc --disable-joystick-menu --enable-dvb --dvb-path=/usr/include --enable-opengl-vsync --enable-firewire --disable-iptv --enable-xrandr --enable-xv --disable-directfb --enable-x11 --enable-gpl
14:45<Cardoe>--enable-mmx --with-bindings-perl,python --compile-type=profile --cpu=athlon64 --disable-distcc
14:45<Cardoe>that's my box by default
14:45<stuarta>heh, i just said gbee was fixing passive scanning and danielk22 just said i was :)
14:45<Cardoe>fairly close to the Gentoo defaults for amd64
14:46<Cardoe>Should we aim for defaulting to OpenGL rendering or XVideo render?
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14:46<danielk22>XVideo, OpenGL rendering is _sloooooow_
14:47<Cardoe>so do I want to allow --enable-opengl-video as an obscure option?
14:47<gbee>am I looking at the passive EIT problem? I kinda hoped someone else might have some ideas, I'm less familiar with the EIT code than either stuarta, janneg or danielk22 :)
14:47<Cardoe>since users have the opengl USE flag enabled by default
14:47<Cardoe>if I hooked it to that flag, it would use that by default
14:48<danielk22>It shouldn't trigger on the "opengl" use flag but should be something that people can enable if they want to live on the edge..
14:48<Cardoe>danielk22: familiar with Gentoo and use flags?
14:49<stuarta>gbee: who knows, you seem to be chief tester :)
14:49<stuarta>i've naff all time
14:49<stuarta>and every time i've tested it, it seemed to work
14:50<Cardoe>danielk22: so for via, I'll want to keep this.. use xvmc && use video_cards_via && myconf="${myconf} --enable-xvmc-pro"
14:50<danielk22>cardoe: yeah that makes sense
14:50<Cardoe>so I wanna do something similiar for nvidia & xvmc-opengl?
14:50<gbee>well I'm going to keep looking at it, but I can only spend a few minutes on it at a time, so progress could be slow
14:50<Cardoe>or steer clear of xvmc & nvidia
14:51<danielk22>cardoe: I'd steer clear of it for nvidia
14:52<gbee>stuarta: should be easier to determine if you disable active scanning (new option in mythtv-setup, under recording options for each card)
14:52<Cardoe>danielk22: do we want to steer clear of xvmc for intel as well?
14:53<gbee>I do appreciate the lack of time, I'm just obliged to find the issue because I can't use active scanning without driver lockups
14:53<stuarta>gbee: part of my problem is the thing is in use recording during my testing time
14:53<danielk22>I dunno, I don't think XvMC works with intel chips at the moment... but those drivers are being worked on, so this may have changed..
14:54<gbee>stuarta: ditto :(
14:54<Cardoe>danielk22: well if we do --enable-xvmc --xvmc-lib=XvMCW, it won't hurt right? unless the user enables something using XvMC in mythfrontend?
14:54<danielk22>AFAIK: VIA is the only chipset where you need and want XvMC..
14:55<danielk22>Cardoe: yes, it won't be enabled by default even if compiled in.
14:55*stuarta goes to cook some tea.
14:55<danielk22>And regular XvMC shouldn't be unstable, just slow..
14:55<Cardoe>I'm just trying to get this all right... less bug reports you guys get from Gentoo people doing the wrong thing.. better I feel.
14:55<danielk22>and studdery
14:56<Cardoe>oh the other question I had
14:56<gbee>ugh, I really need that option to avoid recording showings with sign language - scheduler decided to record a repeat of last weeks showing with sign language instead of the new showing this week :(
14:56<Cardoe>there's 2 tarballs in there
14:57<Cardoe>can we keep them in svn not tar'd up?
14:58<Cardoe>I was actually thinking of writing up some makefiles for the contrib directory
14:59<Cardoe>dunno how you guys feel about that.
15:00<kormoc>I'm gonna be adding another c app to contrib, but I don't think they should make or install by default
15:00<Cardoe>no not like that.
15:01<Cardoe>make -f Makefile.sa3250ch
15:01<Cardoe>make -f Makefile.red_eye
15:01<kormoc>Can't they just be in subfolders and thus just make will work?
15:01<kormoc>Make it easier for the enduser that way I'd wager
15:01<Cardoe>the other idea would be to re-order the stuff like that yes.
15:02<Cardoe>problem is I'd need someone with commit access to work with me
15:02<Cardoe>because providing a patch would be.. well.. ungainly
15:03<kormoc>I can work with ya, assuming no one objects to the restructure
15:03<Cardoe>oh. does anyone use the udev script stuff?
15:04<Cardoe>because if that's the recommended way to go.. that might be good to be moved into the main pkg
15:04<Cardoe>since udev is the default thing for every distro now days
15:06<danielk22>The udev script allows for better automounting behaviour, but I haven't tested it lately. Nigel did a lot of work on automounting since then...
15:09<Cardoe>I actually kicked an idea around for adding D-Bus support to mythfrontend
15:09<danielk22>As for restructure of contrib and build scripts, this has been talked about, but no one has found the time. I think it would be appreciated.. Also in libs/libmythtv/hdhomerun there is a Makefile + binary that are not compiled or installed normally, it's really something which should be a contrib binary. (It allows you to setup the hdhomerun ir receiver, upgrade firmware, etc.)
15:09<Cardoe>and in that using HAL for the media detection
15:09<Cardoe>in addition to that providing the network control interface via D-Bus
15:10<kormoc>danielk22, kk, I'll take on the restructure
15:10<Cardoe>I have some idea patches.. they don't work at all I doubt they work against trunk for that
15:11<Cardoe>dunno how you guys feel about D-Bus
15:11<kormoc>As long as it's not required, I don't care. I just don't have dbus installed or running on any of my boxes
15:11<kormoc>or hal for that matter
15:14<danielk22>I had HAL running once on a new system, it consumed incredible amounts of CPU, it took a while just to get a VT switch to work so I could kill the process.
15:15<Cardoe>danielk22: sounds strange but ok
15:15<gbee>couple of years ago I had a bad experience with HAL, chewed up memory/cpu - caused me a lot of grief
15:15<Cardoe>Don't worry. you won't find me as a HAL lover
15:16<Cardoe>But, a lot of the media detection is a duplication of what they've got
15:16<gbee>been better since
15:16<danielk22>We need it anyway for other OS's & Linux systems without HAL..
15:16<gbee>Cardoe: potentially what we've got can be platform independant though
15:17<Cardoe>HAL is platform independent
15:17<Cardoe>save for Windows
15:17<kormoc>gbee, ooh, btw, Mythweather is creating tables with the engine forced as innodb. Not sure if we should be doing that
15:18<kormoc>Win32 is becoming a viable platform these days
15:18<Cardoe>Qt4 natively supports D-Bus
15:18<Cardoe>and future versions will actually integrate the HAL / D-Bus api calls
15:19<gbee>kormoc: yeah I noticed, can't do much about it at the moment, it's using foreign keys for deletion/updates so it's not simply a case of changing the engine to MyISAM
15:19<kormoc>what bout the win32 side of things? They just won't work or have fallbacks?
15:19<kormoc>gbee, hrm... None of the keys are marked foreign when I looked, but I only glanced at it
15:19<Cardoe>kormoc: afaik, there is a project to provide the similiar or same D-Bus calls on Windows.
15:20<gbee>Cardoe: at that time it might make more sense, since QT will do the abstraction that the media monitor currently handles
15:20<kormoc>I really need to head to work...
15:20<Cardoe>kormoc: we're talking very future Qt releases here
15:20<Cardoe>4.5 specifically
15:20<Cardoe>or whatever it'll be called
15:21<Chutt>i dislike that qt4 is built on glib.
15:21<kormoc>Well, given Trolltech was bought out, who knows what will happen between now and a 4.5 or 5 release
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15:21<Cardoe>Chutt: it's not built on it, it can simply share the main loop
15:21<Chutt>Cardoe, right, dependency, though
15:22<Cardoe>you can remove the depend
15:22<kormoc>gbee, Hrm, yeah. Yours is using them all right.
15:22<Chutt>yeah, custom build, though
15:22<Cardoe>not a custom build here...
15:22<Cardoe>speak to you distro ;)
15:22<Chutt>i use a distro with packages and stuff =)
15:23<Cardoe>Chutt: my distro uses binary packages as well.
15:23<kormoc>I have packages too, they just take awhile to build tis all :P
15:23<Chutt>Cardoe, i had thought of just porting the fe/be communication to dbus once we switched to qt4, though
15:23<danielk22>before we get into distro wars let me just state: emacs > vi :)
15:23<phatmonkey>some thoughts on the website... these sites have caught my eye: - simple, to the point, very good use of trac indeed in both instances. I do like the idea of a blog instead of news
15:23<gnome42>hahaha! :)
15:24*kormoc gets out the vi bible and starts thumping heads
15:24<Chutt>assuming it worked on windows/etc
15:24<Cardoe>Chutt: interesting
15:24<Cardoe>Chutt: have to test how quick D-Bus is first though
15:25<kormoc>phatmonkey, Personally, I find django's website to be rather... cluttered and very busy
15:25*xris wants an hdhomerun now... time to start saving.
15:25<phatmonkey>xris: was it you doing the site?
15:25<xris> yeah
15:25<gbee>phatmonkey: prefer news personally, so long as it's updated regularly you get the facts without having to wade through someone elses life story and commentary
15:26<Cardoe>Chutt: but you're right about glib.. it's an all or nothing thing.. they don't have it as a module.
15:26<phatmonkey>have you considered some sort of easy way for new users to get started with mythtv? maybe some sort of step by step... do you have a computer? do you have an operating system installed? what operating system?
15:26<Chutt>Cardoe, i just have an unreasonable hate of g* =)
15:26*kormoc blinks
15:26<phatmonkey>mythtv probably isn't ready for idiot users yet (think the ubuntu download page), but it might be worth thinking about
15:26<kormoc>phatmonkey, that seems overly hand holding... not really the audience we cater to
15:27<phatmonkey>it might be worth linking to companies which provide ready to go boxes and distros like mythbuntu, depending on what they want
15:27<xris>phatmonkey: the "mythtv in detail" should cover the "all of what mythtv does" and "screenshots"... but there are plenty of howto pages out there for mythtv, which will definitely get linked from the new website.
15:27<kormoc>We already link to distos and the like in the wiki
15:27<phatmonkey>xris: ok
15:27<xris>kormoc: distro downloads will go on the new website, too.
15:27<phatmonkey>kormoc: it's hard to find and confusing for new users though
15:28<phatmonkey>kormoc: you have to wade through a lot of bollocks on the wiki to get to any substance
15:28<xris>phatmonkey: that's part of the reason for the new website
15:28<kormoc>I donno, most users have a distro picked out before they find out about myth imho
15:28<xris>(though the main reason is to get off of phpnuke so we don't get hacked again)
15:28<GreyFoxx>Do we have a simple "flush all video frames" function somewhere I'm just not seeing?
15:30<gbee>GreyFoxx: yeah
15:30<GreyFoxx>SeekReset seems to still decode/process them all
15:30<phatmonkey>xris: yeah, phpnuke is rather naff
15:30<phatmonkey>I know it's radical, but what about a single wiki?
15:30<phatmonkey> is fantastic - straight to the point
15:31<GreyFoxx>gbee: Is t here a similar flushing for audio or would that even be needed?
15:32<gbee>GreyFoxx: from avfd you'd probably want VideoOutput::DiscardFrames(bool)
15:32<phatmonkey>that's even used for the content pages, linked from the front page -
15:33<gbee>GreyFoxx: there is something similar, but I'll have to check, give me a second
15:34<kormoc>phatmonkey, trac's wiki doesn't really handle much content very well (it's search is too ingrained with the rest of trac)
15:34<kormoc>nor does it scale to many hits very well and we don't have static caching in place
15:34<GreyFoxx>gbee: main reason I ask is that I'm playing an mkv with audio disabled, (just like the preview window) and after a DoFastForward, it calls SeekReset which then loops through discarding frames. and in this case It's dropping 800 or so frames and appears to be decoding them before discarding them
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15:37<phatmonkey>maybe it's worth making better use of the wiki then. there could be a clear split between user docs on mediawiki and developer docs on trac, both of which would share the same design with the rest of the site. nothing complex, but similar to what adium have done with keeping the headers on trac
15:38<xris>phatmonkey: the wiki is a user thing.. separate from the "official documentation"
15:39<xris>which is separate from the dev docs, too
15:40<gbee>GreyFoxx: not an expert on the AVF code, I can't say for certain that DiscardFrames() is what you'd want to use in that situation but it will probably work
15:40<gbee>AudioOutput::Reset() will clear the audio buffer
15:41<xris>phatmonkey: the "support overview" page on the new website will hopefully clarify all of that sort of stuff
15:41<phatmonkey>xris: yeah
15:41<xris>GreyFoxx: did you ever get your mp4 video playback fix committed?
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15:43<gbee>I just needed to check that's how we flushed it for video stuff, it's what we use in mythmusic after seeking but there may have been a preferred method for NVP
15:43<phatmonkey>xris: it's a matter of taste, but I must protest against the fixed headers and footers. there's a reason nobody does it - it uses up valuable screen space!
15:43<phatmonkey>and is rather unexpected
15:43<xris>phatmonkey: not that much space used.
15:44<phatmonkey>xris: I will agree with you if you find a large site that does it!
15:44<xris>I'd love to get rid of the footer, but can't get rid of the copyright stuff.
15:44<xris>phatmonkey: big site != "does things the right way"
15:45<laga>xris: true. if you've ever been to
15:45<phatmonkey>make the footer stick the bottom then
15:45<phatmonkey>as a user, I barely ever need to read the footer content
15:45<phatmonkey>it's barmy
15:45<xris>phatmonkey: show me a css way to get it to stick to the bottom with minimal page content and I will
15:45<mattwire>anyone else unable to access the svn server at the moment?
15:45<hads>mattwire: Yeah, I can't get to either.
15:46<xris>would rather have it fixed to the bottom of the window than displayed halfway up the page if there isn't much content on the screen
15:46<mattwire>seems to be getting 300ms pings
15:46<mattwire>but no http responses
15:46<phatmonkey>xris: I strongly disagree!
15:46<hads>apache probably exploded
15:46<xris>phatmonkey: that's the wonderful thing about opinions. :)
15:46<phatmonkey>I would hope you wouldn't have many pages with not much content...
15:47<xris>phatmonkey: it's about consistency, not quantity
15:47<phatmonkey>xris: opinions are opinions, but you are going against all possible conventions
15:47<xris>hads: yeah, I can't seem to ssh into the server itself, either. not a good sign
15:47<xris>phatmonkey: site is only about 10% done.
15:47<GreyFoxx>xris: yes, it's in there. But seeking is a little clitchy which is what I'm looking at now
15:48<xris>GreyFoxx: better than the segfault I get now.
15:48<GreyFoxx>yeah :)
15:48<GreyFoxx>It plays, and you can pause just don't seek
15:48<phatmonkey>xris: fair enough :)
15:48<GreyFoxx>I have seeking almost working no with mp4 and mkv's.... I can taste it
15:48<xris>phatmonkey: that's why I want an art person.
15:48<GreyFoxx>now I mean
15:48<xris>GreyFoxx: I'll have to recompile when svn comes back
15:49<phatmonkey>xris: yeah, I'm not an arty person at all I'm afraid
15:49<phatmonkey>xris: have you considered something web 2.0-ey like
15:49<xris>phatmonkey: yeah, it's rather unfortunate that the FOSS community seems to lack art/UI people the most
15:49<GreyFoxx>I have acouple upnp fixes to put in in the next day too
15:49<GreyFoxx>I just need to test them at home with music and recordings
15:50<phatmonkey>gorgeous site, but I'm not sure if mythtv needs something so mainstream
15:50<xris>phatmonkey: considered.. but I'm not about to code it.
15:50<danielk22>hey is down?
15:50<phatmonkey>but then again, with the windows version on the horizon, maybe something like that is needed
15:50<phatmonkey>danielk22: I was wondering that
15:50<xris>phatmonkey: there are some of the mockups that were submitted when I asked for them.. but then no one came forward to actually put in the work:
15:50<xris>danielk22: seems to be. I can't even get to the server.
15:51<phatmonkey>ok, before the new site... better server ;)
15:51<xris>wait, there it is now
15:51<xris>load is 12
15:52<xris>restarting apache
15:52<xris>load is 17
15:52<xris>something's hitting trac pretty hard
15:53<danielk22> still not responding here..
15:53<danielk22>nevermind... just real slow...
15:53<gbee>xris: it's been having problems for the last two/three weeks? Whatever it is, it isn't a one off
15:54<gbee>maybe the access logs might shed some light
15:54<Cardoe>Chutt said it was something with the apache configs
15:54<gbee>Cardoe: yeah, but that was fixed I thought - and I believe it was the trac config
15:54<xris>restarting apache on svn, too
15:55<dekarl>Oh, you're talking website stuff, mind to take a look at ?
15:56<xris>ok, svn seems to work better for me now.
15:56<xris>load is back to 4 and dropping
15:56<phatmonkey>dekarl: yeah, would be nice
15:56<phatmonkey>xris: what do the access logs say?
15:58<xris>no time to look
15:59<phatmonkey>it might worth getting to redirect to
15:59<phatmonkey>that always confuses me
16:00<ma9mwah>when i compile trunk it optimises it against the processor type i've got. what do the precompiled version do? and do the processor specific compiles make much difference?
16:02<danielk22>ma9mwah, wrong IRC channel..
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16:07<xris>not to mention that mythtv doesn't offer a precompiled version. heh
16:09<phatmonkey>on that note, mythtv really needs some precompiled OS X versions on
16:09<phatmonkey>sorry to sit here providing critisism - a couple of years sitting around watching things is all pouring out!
16:10<phatmonkey>put me to work, I'm willing to assist with website stuff in particular
16:12<dekarl>phatmonkey: release builds and maybe nightly build for the major platforms would be nice, I like the way of providing them easily
16:13<laga>nightly builds for the major platforms? hum
16:13<phatmonkey>dekarl: the builds for linux distributions seems to be pretty solid (package management solves that), but OS X builds for myth are really sporadic
16:13<phatmonkey>I don't really know which builds to trust
16:13<laga>currently, not even packaging scripts are allowed/supposed to live on
16:14<phatmonkey>for example, I current use for nightly OS X builds, but I don't have a clue if it's actually trustworthy
16:14<dekarl>I can't find that much references to any package builds on the homepage...
16:14<dekarl>I'd love to help out with that (been there, done that) but I have no idea about availible resources or debian/ubunto packaging
16:15<phatmonkey>mythbuntu, debian multimedia
16:15<phatmonkey>it's out there, it's just not referenced from
16:17<xris>phatmonkey: I can't even get it to compile in leopard, or I might consider it.
16:17<phatmonkey> - I quite like the way they've done their downloads on the front page
16:17<dekarl>well, debian-multimedia moved from trunk to fixes some time ago... So no joy with nightlies
16:17<phatmonkey>news really needn't live on the front page, at the very most a little box showing the latest news item
16:18<phatmonkey>xris: it might be worth finding out how all those unofficial sites do their builds
16:18<phatmonkey>get their scripts and whatnot
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16:19<phatmonkey>xris: I can have a shot at organising it if you want?
16:19<laga>dekarl: mythbuntu package scripts ought to work on debian as well.
16:19<xris>not much of a script needed. my problem's lib related..
16:20<dekarl>laga: great, you don't happen to run nightly builds?
16:20<phatmonkey>xris: I wonder how machavana do their nightly builds
16:20<laga>dekarl: weekly builds
16:21<phatmonkey>laga: do you do those weekly builds?
16:21<dekarl>laga: nice, where can I sign up? :)
16:21<laga>phatmonkey: depends. i'm the guy who basically kicked off the effort.
16:22<phatmonkey>laga: well, it's just switched to 0.21 fixes instead of trunk. is it going to stay that way?
16:22<laga>dekarl: this script will generate source packages for mythtv and mythplugins.
16:22<dekarl>laga: thanks, looks ubuntuish to me though
16:22<phatmonkey>at least the update I did today was from the fixes branch
16:22<laga>phatmonkey: it'll probably move back to trunk once 0.21 is released.
16:23<laga>phatmonkey: trunk and fixes are about the same at the moment.
16:23<laga>dekarl: you probably had 10s to take a look.
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16:23*j-rod has his own "make me an rpm, dammit" script pulling from 0.21-fixes atm too
16:24<phatmonkey>laga: yeah. I suppose if I switch to the hardy repos once 0.21 is released, it should just upgrade seamlessly shouldn't it
16:24<phatmonkey>or I could stick with the weeklys and live on the edge
16:25<phatmonkey>xris: how do official OS X builds sound?
16:25<laga>i'll probably stick with 0.21 so i dunno who'll update the packaging scripts.
16:25<phatmonkey>presumably a similar thing can be done with the windows version once that's usable
16:26<dekarl>laga: indeed, was just guessing from the url that I won't find a debian package repo there. Looks like it's the build scripts
16:26<xris>phatmonkey: I'd love to see them. but won't happen until after .21 gets released...
16:26<xris>but it's just a file to upload, so that's no big deal.
16:27<j-rod>xris: *cough* licensing...
16:27<xris>my problem, like I said, is that it doesn't actually compile in leopard.
16:27<xris>j-rod: licensing?
16:27<j-rod>there's a reason there aren't any binary packages for Linux on
16:27<laga>dekarl: it's a script which makes source packages. not sure if it's currently making theme packages. it used to, but superm1 probably disabled it. no big deal to add it back, but i'm somewhat out of spin these days
16:27<phatmonkey>xris: what about daily builds? or do you think that's something worth keeping unofficial
16:27<xris>oh... mp3, etc...
16:27<xris>j-rod: thanks for the sanity.
16:27<j-rod>np :)
16:27<xris>phatmonkey: think about what j-rod just said.
16:28<laga>dekarl: <- for example, this is the debian/ directory for mythtv
16:28<j-rod>oh, finally got my stupid os x box behaving again, will be getting back to trying to build a working package soonish
16:28<xris>j-rod: btw, I put an ohci 1.1 firewire card into my mythbox this weekend... so now I can finally upgrade to f-8 if I want.
16:28<xris>cool. let me know if you can figure out how to get around that libGL path thing I have.
16:28<phatmonkey>isn't mythtv gpl?
16:28<xris>I can't even seem to manually override it
16:28<j-rod>xris: 'cept I think pulling from a cable box still not workie
16:28<xris>phatmonkey: yes it is, and that's the problem. mp3 is not.
16:29<xris>nor are a lot of the mpeg routines, etc.
16:29<j-rod>phatmonkey: its a patent issue, not a license issue, sorry
16:29<phatmonkey> - how do they do it?
16:29<j-rod>they aren't in the US
16:29<phatmonkey>as a random example i had in my clipboard!
16:30<danielk22>mpeg1 is almost out of patents by now isn't it? I thought Nokia brought that argument up for why not to use OGG..
16:30<gbee>phatmonkey: just look at Elisa - selling themselves as the next great media player, but you have to pay extra before you can play mpeg files
16:30<phatmonkey>so say, I hosted some "official"-ish builds from here in the UK, which were linked to from your site as "official"-ish, that would be ok?
16:30<danielk22>not that there aren't lots of bonehead patents out there..
16:30<j-rod>phatmonkey: possibly.
16:30<xris>phatmonkey: mythtv itself is still in the US. you'd have to ask Isaac how he feels about that.
16:31<gbee>phatmonkey: doesn't really get around the patent issues I suspect, there will be regional versions of the patent submission
16:31<phatmonkey>I don't like having to get OS X builds from some slightly dodgy looking site
16:32<xris>j-rod: cable box stuff still broken in rawhide? thought you guys fixed that. lack of a recent fedora box is preventing me from keeping my packages up to date for f-9 release. I tried to install the f9 alpha in vmware but it breaks vmware. heh
16:32<dekarl>laga: thanks, looks like one can find a good base for package building there. If someone is setting up nightlies I can lend a hand.
16:32<phatmonkey>have any of the patent owners actually ever made a move? sounds like one of those things which OSS packages just break regardless
16:32<j-rod>xris: there's an off chance it actually works with an ohci 1.1 controller, haven't actually tried it...
16:32<j-rod>xris: been mostly working on firewire storage stuff lately, still need to get back to firewire video...
16:32<xris>I'll upgrade to f-9 when it comes out...
16:33<gbee>phatmonkey: can you afford to be the first person they do sue?
16:33<j-rod>I have a spec that is building everything just fine on f9 now, fwiw
16:33<laga>dekarl: if you run into trouble with those scripts, there's a mailing list (see )
16:34<xris>j-rod: slick. can you email it to me?
16:34<xris>I was speaking of my "official" fedora packages, but mythtv works, too. :)
16:34<xris>something in the latest gcc upgrade rebuild broke all of the packages I maintain.. but I don't have a new enough fedora to test/recompile them on my own.
16:35<j-rod>xris: oh, heh
16:35<phatmonkey>gbee: well they would cease and desist first wouldn't they? I'd probably cease and desist pretty quickly!
16:35<j-rod>xris: yum install mock. :)
16:35<j-rod>mock -r fedora-devel-<arch> package
16:36<j-rod>I had to patch up a bunch of my own packages
16:36<j-rod>and mythtv. :)
16:36<j-rod>(mostly trivial header includes)
16:36<phatmonkey>surely there's some way to do what the ubuntu gstreamer apps do - just not use mp3 unless it's been specifically installed
16:36<dekarl>laga: for the moment I'm into other things (not enough time to learn Linux packaging from scratch) just offering a helping hand should someone think about setting up some cruisecontrol vm cluster or something
16:36<laga>dekarl: PPAs are fine for weekly builds :) (launchpad's personal package archive = PPA)
16:37<gbee>phatmonkey: dunno what the law is on the issue, but I don't think they are required to be polite - they might be more likely to do that because entering litigation is expensive but distros etc can't really afford to take that chance
16:37<phatmonkey>I wonder where the ubuntu mp3 libraries are hosted. I know there are all sorts of warnings before you enable it to make sure it's legal in your country - maybe it's the usage not the hosting which is the problem
16:38<xris>j-rod: th
16:38<phatmonkey>it seems silly not to distribute binaries for a reason most open source projects seem to just disregard
16:39<j-rod>phatmonkey: there are some very very grey areas... but ubuntu hq is nowhere near the US, so they can play it a bit fast and loose vs. other distros w/hq in the US
16:39<phatmonkey>j-rod: yeah, I understand
16:40<j-rod>while most of us in the US think the patent stuff is bullshit, we like not having to worry about potentially losing our shirts...
16:41<j-rod>xris: fyi, mythmusic aac support won't build w/the latest livna faad2
16:41<j-rod>axel patches his, but its a bit unsavory, since its building against a library that is apparently supposed to be private to faad2
16:42<xris>j-rod: yeah, I know. it hasn't in ages. I'm more concerned about mp4 video playback. heh
16:42<phatmonkey>xris: what do you think of using instead of
16:42<j-rod>I built a hacked up faad2 locally and used that, so I do have support enabled in my own local build
16:42<j-rod>not that I actually use mythmusic, mind you
16:44<phatmonkey>I really know very little about OS X development, but how do OS X apps play mp3?
16:44<phatmonkey>surely there are some libraries on OS X already that can be linked to?
16:45<j-rod>Apple licenses the mp3 codec
16:46<j-rod>in theory, someone could possibly code things up for an os x build to use quicktime for everything, but that'd be a big effort, and would make the os x code a lot different than the linux code
16:49<dekarl>In practice one might as well port the whole of MythTV to GStreamer, doesn't sound like a lot more work... (but still a whole lot of work that nobody wants to do)
16:50<laga>dekarl: how does that solve any problems?
16:50<laga>dekarl: you mean it'd be possible to use "free" codecs?
16:51<dekarl>laga: no, but the codecs would not be linked into mythtv itself.
16:52<xris>phatmonkey: I don't have control of that server
16:53<xris>I think it's a holdover from bad vhost setup on the machine that used to host the wiki
16:54<dekarl>xris: so the dns entry still points to the old wiki host?
16:57<xris>dekarl: no. just that no one has gone in and cleaned up the apache config
16:58<dekarl>xris: i see, was confused by the "no control" statement
16:59<xris>dekarl: Snow-Man runs the servers. I just help out
16:59<xris>I try to limit my day to day help to resetting apache when it freaks out
17:00<dekarl>can you assign #4749 to him?
17:01<xris>trac is for code stuff
17:01<xris>I don't think he checks trac
17:01<dekarl>where do we collect infrastructure issues then?
17:01<xris>but he'll see this conversation
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17:01<xris>at the moment, there isn't a way. just chatting about it here.
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17:01<xris>which is semi-OT but generally ok
17:02<dekarl>ok, (mental note, make a ticket in trac to use trac more :)
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20:59<danielk22>Heh, any web devs looking for a job? Just got this in my inbox:
20:59<danielk22>They are MythTV, IVTV experience a plus..
20:59<danielk22>"Lunix" experience required :)
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21:28<Anduin>I've always thought their job would benefit from time stretching.
21:30<kormoc>danielk22, telecommuting an option? :P
21:38<danielk22>dunno, I just got this from a google alert on "MythTV" "stories" :)
21:38<danielk22>I would assume not..
21:42<xris>kormoc: you have any mythweb SoC projects?
21:42<kormoc>Summer of Code?
21:43<kormoc>Let me ponder on it. It's for 8 40 hour weeks of work?
21:44<xris>something like that
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22:19<danielk22>kormoc, don't overestimate the amount of work they can do.. these are very green programmers...
22:20<kormoc>heh, yeah, I know
22:21<xris>army of Sams would get a lot of work done, though. heh
22:22<danielk22>Are any of our regular contribs eligible? Even someone who has just sent in one or two patches? We might want to encourage them to apply...
22:22<xris>as long as they meet the normal requierments
22:24<danielk22>Yeah, but I'd feel pretty dumb finding out I asked someone who has 20 years under their belt to apply.. :) Maybe we need a general call to arms..
22:24<xris>I think a mythweb music rewrite would be a good project...
22:24<xris>have to come up with the projects first
22:25<xris>most of the project ideas I come up with require help from the backend.. inline streaming/transcoding, etc.
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---Logclosed Tue Feb 26 00:00:16 2008