| --- | Log | opened Wed May 28 00:00:18 2008 |
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| 07:44 | <Bob24> | hello |
| 07:44 | <Bob24> | could someone please help me with this question |
| 07:44 | <Bob24> | ? |
| 07:45 | <Bob24> | is it possible to setup a Twinhan remote in Mythbuntu? |
| 07:57 | <gbee> | #mythtv-users |
| 07:58 | <gbee> | actually #ubuntu-mythtv or #lirc |
| 07:58 | <Bob24> | k thanks |
| 08:05 | <Bob24> | theres no one ther |
| 08:12 | <Bob24> | hello anyone here |
| 08:29 | <gbee> | there are plenty of people in #mythtv-users or #ubuntu-mythtv - this is the developers channel |
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| 08:44 | <GreyFoxx> | You can pay for your SD account in 2 month increments now ? Nifty for users who want more than 7 days but not a full year |
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| 09:05 | <stuarta> | /away busy at work |
| 09:06 | <stuarta> | doh |
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| 13:33 | <Wonka> | morning |
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| 16:15 | * | xris ponders just linking mythweb's ajax APIs to google's new hosting service. heh |
| 16:18 | <stuarta> | mwuhahahahah |
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| 17:18 | <bkero> | Howdy folks |
| 17:20 | <bkero> | MythTV's server seems to have SSH flapping about |
| 17:20 | <stuarta> | how so, you shouldn't have access to it's ssh server? |
| 17:20 | <bkero> | Erm |
| 17:20 | * | bkero is with the Open Source Lab. |
| 17:20 | <stuarta> | ah |
| 17:21 | <bkero> | We host it, and monitor it's connectivity. |
| 17:21 | * | stuarta pokes Snow-Man |
| 17:21 | <bkero> | SSH availability is being finnicky |
| 17:21 | <gbee> | yeah, he knows, he just didn't know who you were :) |
| 17:21 | <bkero> | Sure |
| 17:21 | * | stuarta apologises |
| 17:21 | <bkero> | np sir |
| 17:21 | <stuarta> | too many -users pop in here |
| 17:22 | <gbee> | good luck with Snow-Man, I've been pestering him to regen the ssh keys for a week |
| 17:22 | <stuarta> | hmpf |
| 17:23 | <bkero> | Yea |
| 17:23 | <kormoc> | gbee, way to make me feel secure! |
| 17:23 | <bkero> | I think it's either load, or someone's hammering trying to crack |
| 17:23 | <gbee> | the ssh issue account for the failed svn up |
| 17:23 | <stuarta> | probably the latter if the keys haven't been regenerated |
| 17:24 | <gbee> | can't ssh in at the moment |
| 17:24 | <kormoc> | stuarta, it's not that bad if it's just the host keys |
| 17:24 | <stuarta> | no, but still crap |
| 17:24 | <kormoc> | stuarta, it opens up to man in the middle, but noo viable |
| 17:24 | <kormoc> | *too |
| 17:24 | <kormoc> | *not too |
| 17:24 | <stuarta> | however, our usernames aren't that difficult to work out |
| 17:24 | <gbee> | kormoc: well weak host keys still suggest to an attacker than no remedial action has been taken on that machine, so they are looking for weak user keys |
| 17:25 | <kormoc> | gbee, indeed |
| 17:25 | <stuarta> | and some of us use debian and could possibly have generated keys on the crap ssh version |
| 17:25 | <gbee> | my key is fine, but I can't speak for others |
| 17:25 | <stuarta> | heh, i've done mine too |
| 17:25 | * | kormoc starts using his ssh rainbow tables... for educational purposes of course... |
| 17:25 | <kormoc> | my key's never not been fine :P |
| 17:26 | <stuarta> | only my throwaways suffered |
| 17:26 | <gbee> | never used a debian based distro for more than a couple of hours :) |
| 17:26 | <kormoc> | for fun (and profit!) I scanned my keys with the ssh bad ones and verified none of mine were affected |
| 17:26 | <stuarta> | \o/ |
| 17:27 | <gbee> | all the same, I wasn't complacent and I checked all my keys anyway |
| 17:27 | <kormoc> | it's likely load on the machine and not a ssh scan. www is down as well |
| 17:28 | <gbee> | plus the host keys on all servers to which I routinely connect - which is how I came to notice the problem with mythtv.org |
| 17:28 | <bkero> | So wait it out then? |
| 17:28 | <gbee> | xris: ping |
| 17:28 | <stuarta> | bkero: Snow-Man is the person you really need |
| 17:28 | <kormoc> | bkero, I'd give it some time to see if it will clear up, given I don't think any of us can access it anyway |
| 17:28 | <bkero> | Ok |
| 17:28 | <stuarta> | however Chutt may be able to help |
| 17:29 | <kormoc> | if it doesn't clear up on it's own here in a few, it might need physical access to figure out what's up, and we don't have a serial console, do we? |
| 17:29 | <gbee> | Snow-Man is officially in charge, Chutt is the project lead |
| 17:30 | <gbee> | in charge of the server I mean |
| 17:30 | <bkero> | If you don't, we can see about getting you a serial console. |
| 17:30 | <kormoc> | bkero, that'd be rockin da sockin |
| 17:30 | <bkero> | lol |
| 17:32 | <xris> | gbee: busy, 5 mins |
| 17:32 | <stuarta> | what you do with your socks, please keep to yourself |
| 17:33 | * | bkero socks in place |
| 17:33 | * | stuarta whacks kormoc with a flimsy sock |
| 17:34 | * | kormoc sock-alanches stuarta |
| 17:34 | * | stuarta hides behind the washing machine |
| 17:35 | <gbee> | xris: np, just thought I'd ping you as you're the only one of us aside from Snow-Man and Chutt with any sort of real privledges on the server |
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| 17:35 | <xris> | what's going on? |
| 17:35 | <kormoc> | xris, server is flooded/down it seems |
| 17:35 | <gbee> | (22:20:00) bkero: MythTV's server seems to have SSH flapping about |
| 17:35 | <kormoc> | xris, know of any non-ssh way to access the box? |
| 17:36 | <xris> | no |
| 17:36 | <xris> | it's pretty pegged, though |
| 17:36 | <xris> | we can have the osl guys restart it for us if we need to, though |
| 17:36 | <xris> | but that's up to Snow-Man |
| 17:36 | <xris> | and this is why xen is better than vservers... |
| 17:36 | <xris> | blech |
| 17:36 | <gbee> | Snow-Man seems to be AWOL |
| 17:36 | <kormoc> | xris, OSU ( bkero ) is who notified us :) |
| 17:36 | <xris> | oh |
| 17:37 | * | stuarta chuckles |
| 17:37 | <kormoc> | xris, cpu load? |
| 17:37 | <xris> | I can't even get into the parent server |
| 17:37 | <xris> | ssh is still "connecting" |
| 17:37 | <kormoc> | it'll time out |
| 17:37 | <kormoc> | none of the machines are actually working it seems |
| 17:37 | <xris> | vservers don't isolate cpu like xen does |
| 17:38 | <whoDat_> | anyone here in east cleveland area? |
| 17:38 | <kormoc> | but you can put process cpu caps on tho |
| 17:38 | <xris> | kormoc: but apparently Snow-Man hasn't. heh |
| 17:38 | <xris> | whoDat_: -users question maybe? |
| 17:39 | <gbee> | xris: bkero is offering a serial console, given that Chutt is MIA and Snow-Man doesn't seem to be around, do we wait or ... ? |
| 17:39 | <xris> | I can possibly get in via serial console... |
| 17:39 | <bkero> | Does it have a getty running on ttyS1? :/ |
| 17:39 | <stuarta> | it'll still take a while if it's being hammered |
| 17:39 | <xris> | bkero: on that note, I have no idea. probably not, actually |
| 17:39 | <whoDat_> | xris lol if you say so |
| 17:40 | <xris> | I wonder how much damage it'd cause to just reboot the box. |
| 17:40 | <gbee> | bkero: any way on your end to identify/isolate a DDOS? Assuming that's what we're looking at? |
| 17:40 | <kormoc> | xris, safe reboot, not much |
| 17:41 | <stuarta> | maybe at the router level |
| 17:41 | <xris> | kormoc: assuming it has acpi/apm/whatever enabled.. |
| 17:41 | <stuarta> | drop a few packets here and there |
| 17:41 | -!- | aneiane [n=kevin@c-71-227-11-78.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #mythtv |
| 17:41 | <gbee> | stuarta: that's what I'm thinking, but I don''t know much about our arrangement with OSU |
| 17:41 | <bkero> | gbee: With a little work I can search through cacti and look at network traffic |
| 17:42 | <xris> | you guys think it's a ddos and not just a flooded process? |
| 17:42 | <kormoc> | bkero, if you hace the average connection time graphs, see if that jumped though the roof |
| 17:42 | <bkero> | We'd be notified if it did, but I'll look |
| 17:42 | <kormoc> | xris, personally, I think it's a process, but doesn't hurt to see what other things might be going on while we wait :) |
| 17:42 | <bkero> | If it is an ssh attack, it wouldn't be that bandwidth intensive anyway though |
| 17:42 | <kormoc> | aye |
| 17:43 | <stuarta> | just tie ssh up in knots |
| 17:43 | <kormoc> | stuarta, but we lost apache too |
| 17:43 | <stuarta> | probably a side effect |
| 17:43 | <stuarta> | if ssh takes too much cpu, apache will get starved |
| 17:43 | <gbee> | xris: I suspect it's either a ssh attack (as opposed to a proper ddos) or a load issue, but we're in the dark right now until someone has access to the server :) |
| 17:43 | <kormoc> | DDOS attacts typically manifest themselves as a ton of very very long open connections, each connection attempts to hold it open as long as it can |
| 17:44 | <xris> | well, I *do* have isaac's phone number... |
| 17:44 | <xris> | brb, "goodbye party for office mgr. |
| 17:44 | <kormoc> | Which is why the average connection open time is a simple way to see if it's just too much traffic or really a DDOS |
| 17:44 | <gbee> | we've had times when apache has been crippled by load, but I can't remember a time when apache and ssh have been down for this long at the same time |
| 17:45 | <stuarta> | good old /. effect |
| 17:45 | <gbee> | that's a point, have we been slashdotted today? :) |
| 17:46 | * | gbee accepts that committing isn't possible tonight and decides to watch some recordings instead |
| 17:46 | <xris> | yeah, this is more than the usual apache-load issues. |
| 17:46 | <stuarta> | no reason, we haven't released anything special |
| 17:46 | <xris> | my ssh connection is still trying. heh |
| 17:47 | <kormoc> | xris, I'm getting 0 bits after quite awhile here, don't think it's gonna actually work :P |
| 17:47 | <xris> | weird. "connection established" and then it just hangs |
| 17:47 | <xris> | kormoc: you're connecting to svn, though, right? the actual machine address is alcor |
| 17:47 | <gbee> | mine just fails to connect |
| 17:47 | <bkero> | I've gotta head to class for about an hour |
| 17:48 | <bkero> | I'll be back, basic` should be helping you |
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| 17:48 | <kormoc> | xris, svn aye |
| 17:48 | <xris> | I actually get "connection established" with I run `ssh -v`, but it doesn't get much further than that |
| 17:48 | <basic`> | hello |
| 17:48 | <kormoc> | Howdy basic` |
| 17:48 | <gbee> | heh, though it does refuse immediately if I supply a bogus username |
| 17:48 | <xris> | loads my public keys and then nothing |
| 17:48 | <xris> | which does *feel* like a load issue |
| 17:49 | <stuarta> | sometimes it's faster to log in without the ssh keys if the load is too high (ie. use passwords) |
| 17:49 | <gbee> | at the end of the day it doesn't matter much I suppose, we're just waiting on Snow-Man or Chutt |
| 17:50 | <basic`> | does it prompt for a password? |
| 17:50 | <basic`> | or timeout before that |
| 17:50 | <xris> | stuarta: -v shows the same info with or without keys |
| 17:51 | <stuarta> | k |
| 17:51 | <kormoc> | xris, you have three levels of -v to play with btw, but shouldn't really change much |
| 17:53 | <xris> | yeah, doesn't help much |
| 17:53 | <xris> | does show that I'm not getting the host cert back, though. |
| 17:53 | <xris> | just the connection, and then nothing |
| 17:53 | <basic`> | hmm |
| 17:54 | <basic`> | ssh_exchange_identification: Connection closed by remote host |
| 17:54 | <basic`> | is that what everyone is getting? |
| 17:54 | <kormoc> | basic`, nope, mine hangs just after the tcp connection and gets 0 data |
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| 17:55 | <basic`> | very odd |
| 17:55 | <xris> | basic`: same as kormoc for me |
| 17:56 | <basic`> | was openssh upgraded recently? |
| 17:56 | <gbee> | basic`: no, svn.mythtv.org is just hanging there - mythtv.org gives me the ident error, though it might always have done - |
| 17:56 | <basic`> | strange, i can get to the password prompt for svn.mythtv.org |
| 17:57 | <stuarta> | ooo it just logged me in |
| 17:57 | <stuarta> | top - 21:57:15 up 93 days, 1:06, 2 users, load average: 86.45, 124.38, 124.37 |
| 17:57 | <kormoc> | Whee! |
| 17:57 | <basic`> | dang. |
| 17:58 | <gbee> | me too |
| 17:58 | <xris> | ooh, I got into svn |
| 17:58 | <xris> | and alcor |
| 17:58 | <xris> | bkero: you do something? |
| 17:58 | <basic`> | still nothing with www? |
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| 17:58 | <basic`> | bkero left for class, he'll be back in ~50 minutes |
| 17:59 | <xris> | ah |
| 17:59 | <kormoc> | we have a metric ton of apache threads |
| 17:59 | <basic`> | wait, looks like www.mythtv.org is accessible now too? |
| 17:59 | <xris> | I'm into the master server, though. going to restart apache for good measure |
| 17:59 | <kormoc> | yeah |
| 17:59 | <kormoc> | they're hanging bout a little too long |
| 17:59 | <basic`> | is apache eating all the resources or something else? |
| 17:59 | <gbee> | loads dropping off fast, no processes using excessive resources |
| 17:59 | <stuarta> | apache is iobound |
| 18:00 | <gbee> | ooo missed that |
| 18:00 | <xris> | stuarta: on www or svn? |
| 18:00 | <stuarta> | svn |
| 18:01 | <xris> | my vserver process hung when I tried to get in as root |
| 18:01 | <kormoc> | apache wasn't IO bound according to my last top update, but it's frozen now |
| 18:01 | <gbee> | wouldn't hurt to put some more ram in |
| 18:01 | <kormoc> | all the swap is used, if you bounced apache, it could be swap cleaning |
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| 18:02 | <kormoc> | ps ax | grep apache2 | wc -l returned 195 processes a little while ago |
| 18:02 | <kormoc> | Did anyone put a cap on the number of threads to spawn? |
| 18:02 | <xris> | I didn't get in to bounce apache yet |
| 18:02 | <xris> | kormoc: that's be up to Snow-Man |
| 18:03 | <xris> | "vserver enter" is taking a LONG time |
| 18:03 | <basic`> | anything strange in the logs? |
| 18:03 | <kormoc> | down to 22 apache processes |
| 18:04 | <basic`> | did it go down again? |
| 18:04 | <kormoc> | it's messing with the swap, we're maxed on ram and swap, and that's what's killing everything |
| 18:04 | <basic`> | PROBLEM: www.mythtv.org/SSH is CRITICAL |
| 18:04 | <kormoc> | the OOM Should have killed something by now tho |
| 18:05 | <gbee> | hence my comment about more RAM, it's those apache processes |
| 18:07 | <xris> | I'm still waiting for my vserver command to run so I can get into svn as root.. |
| 18:07 | <xris> | Snow-Man doesn't believe in sudo, so that's the only way. |
| 18:07 | <gbee> | I'll leave it to the big boys |
| 18:09 | * | xris twiddles thumbs |
| 18:09 | <basic`> | how much ram does it have? i'm guessing something needs adjusting before more ram is added |
| 18:09 | <gbee> | 2Gb |
| 18:11 | <kormoc> | 2 gb + 2 gb swap |
| 18:12 | <kormoc> | we should have 6 slots open for registered/ecc ddr2 |
| 18:12 | <basic`> | any way to check the logs? |
| 18:12 | <kormoc> | not until it's cleared up a tad |
| 18:15 | <xris> | I'm still locked out |
| 18:15 | <xris> | second ssh attempt to alcor is still hung |
| 18:15 | <basic`> | well it appears to have gone down again ~10m ago |
| 18:16 | <basic`> | at least that's when nagios caught it |
| 18:16 | <basic`> | (www.mythtv.org) |
| 18:17 | <clever> | ive had to deal with oom freezes before too |
| 18:17 | <clever> | my 'main' server(133mhz 64mb ram) got frozen with oom for 48 hours once |
| 18:18 | <clever> | and i wasnt anywhere near close enough to boot the reset button |
| 18:18 | <clever> | but ssh managed to bearly work after 48 hours and then i got it rebooted |
| 18:18 | <clever> | and i later discovered it was apache slowly creeping until it ate everything |
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| 18:25 | <xris> | I'm afraid to just reboot the machine |
| 18:25 | <xris> | but I still can't get in as root. |
| 18:25 | <stuarta> | it's out of swap |
| 18:25 | <stuarta> | Swap: 2097144k total, 2097144k used, 0k free, |
| 18:26 | <xris> | sounds like a reboot is pretty much necessary |
| 18:26 | * | stuarta ponders the why |
| 18:26 | <basic`> | yeah, can you not kill apache? |
| 18:26 | <xris> | not from where I can log in |
| 18:26 | <xris> | it uses vservers, and the only way I can get root is to go through the vserver command. |
| 18:26 | <xris> | apache lives inside of the vservers |
| 18:26 | <basic`> | ah, interesting |
| 18:27 | <basic`> | Snow-Man has root though? |
| 18:27 | <xris> | presumably.. but he also primarily uses the vserver command |
| 18:27 | <xris> | I can't ssh in anymore, though, so it doesn't matter much. |
| 18:27 | <xris> | I wonder if there are any processes on the parent virt that I can kill.. |
| 18:28 | <xris> | assuming I can actually get my one ssh session to respond. |
| 18:28 | <xris> | any of you people here still logged in via ssh? can you please log out? |
| 18:28 | <stuarta> | i can log off if that'll help |
| 18:28 | <stuarta> | that's a bit dead |
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| 18:29 | <stuarta> | killed it off |
| 18:30 | <stuarta> | basic`: is there nothing you can do to temp drop the http traffic on the floor? |
| 18:30 | <basic`> | stuarta: i might be able to do something, let me see if it's possible |
| 18:32 | <xris> | still spinning |
| 18:33 | <xris> | I don't want to ~. my session because I don't know if it would let me back in at that point |
| 18:33 | -!- | nnewton [n=nnewton@osuosl/staff/nnewton] has joined #mythtv |
| 18:33 | <basic`> | hey |
| 18:33 | <clever> | i had trouble even loging in withmy system, it would assume i took over 5mins to enter my pw and hangup |
| 18:33 | <clever> | before it even gave a pw prompt |
| 18:34 | <nnewton> | clever: I hear all the root admins are away? |
| 18:35 | <stuarta> | nnewton: Snow-Man is awol |
| 18:35 | <stuarta> | however xris is around |
| 18:35 | <nnewton> | k, so does anyone here have the ability to restart apache? |
| 18:35 | <gbee> | xris has root |
| 18:35 | <gbee> | but can't log in due to the load from apache |
| 18:35 | <clever> | moar ulimit next time! |
| 18:36 | <stuarta> | so ideally we need to drop the http traffic |
| 18:36 | * | xris votes for putting kormoc in charge of the next server |
| 18:36 | <stuarta> | heh |
| 18:36 | <gbee> | hehe |
| 18:36 | * | clever votes justinh, he will realy bitch about it:P |
| 18:36 | <nnewton> | stuarta: doing that externally would require us putting filters in place, which would need us to ping our uplevel provider which isn't really in scope of this issue |
| 18:37 | <nnewton> | we can however kick the box which will clear out the load and let you guys get in |
| 18:37 | <stuarta> | k, that's all inhouse at our office :) |
| 18:37 | <xris> | nnewton: yeah, I just don't want to do that without checking with the "senior" admins. |
| 18:37 | <gbee> | showoff ;) |
| 18:37 | <nnewton> | stuarta: we have less flexability there :) |
| 18:37 | <clever> | i have sysrq on so i can force an oom kill easily |
| 18:38 | <xris> | Chutt: ping |
| 18:38 | <nnewton> | clever: hehe, and hope it picks the right thing |
| 18:38 | <stuarta> | gbee: i will admit, it's nice being at the same level as an ISP |
| 18:38 | * | xris just noticed that Chutt logged in |
| 18:38 | <gbee> | huh, when did Chutt rejoin? He wasn't here earlier |
| 18:38 | <stuarta> | high level peerings and whatnot |
| 18:38 | <clever> | nnewton: even if it kills the wrong thing, it will recover enough for a proper reboot |
| 18:38 | <nnewton> | clever: not if it kills sshd |
| 18:39 | <stuarta> | 1-0 to nnewton |
| 18:39 | <clever> | cant sysrq from the net |
| 18:39 | <clever> | sysrq needs psysical access to the keyboard |
| 18:39 | <clever> | or serial |
| 18:39 | <gbee> | does no-one have contact details for Snow-Man aside from Chutt? |
| 18:40 | <gbee> | clever: ok, so not helping with our current situation then ;) |
| 18:40 | <stuarta> | not ever read your kernel dmesg? |
| 18:40 | <clever> | i pipe the dmesg from my master backend out serial |
| 18:40 | <clever> | to a winblows box with a serial window open |
| 18:40 | <stuarta> | iirc he wrote some of the firewalling kernel modules |
| 18:41 | <stuarta> | hence his email appears when the module is loaded |
| 18:41 | <nnewton> | k guys, so if you decide to do a reboot let bkero/basic` know and they can do that (or someone else in the office) |
| 18:41 | <xris> | I can call isaac |
| 18:42 | <nnewton> | good luck :) |
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| 18:42 | <clever> | if your close enough to psysicaly reboot it, you could sysrq it |
| 18:42 | <stuarta> | meh |
| 18:42 | <gbee> | if I dig through my archived emails I probably can find Snow-Man's address, just wondered if anyone had it handy and whether he's likely to respond to an email any more than IRC |
| 18:42 | <xris> | wow, my control-C finally registered. |
| 18:43 | <stuarta> | it may be untangling itself |
| 18:43 | <xris> | I probably have his email address somewhere. |
| 18:43 | <clever> | xris: yes its amazing when it finaly responds |
| 18:43 | <stuarta> | as the oom-killer rampages |
| 18:43 | <clever> | even a ps aux|sort -nk5 takes a few hours |
| 18:43 | <xris> | clever: that's *all* that happened. I now have a prompt, and a \n waiting to be acknowledged |
| 18:43 | <stuarta> | quick, type and hope |
| 18:43 | <xris> | stuarta: I did |
| 18:44 | <stuarta> | :) |
| 18:44 | <xris> | hoping... |
| 18:44 | <clever> | you could echo a leter into /proc/ to trigger oom remotely |
| 18:44 | <clever> | might be faster then ps aux|sort then kill an hour later |
| 18:44 | <gbee> | I assume that Chutt logged on then promptly went to make coffee or answered the phone :) |
| 18:49 | <gbee> | actually I favour the theory that he connected, saw the discussion and decided to pretend he's not there |
| 18:50 | <stuarta> | i lean toward the irc client autoreconnect theory myself |
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| 18:55 | <gbee> | :p |
| 18:56 | <bkero> | Back |
| 18:56 | <xris> | no isaac by phone -- will leave message |
| 18:59 | <gbee> | I'm off to bed, good luck with it |
| 19:04 | <bkero> | Woo, the government is stimulating me! |
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| 19:12 | <xris> | sent an email to Snow-Man |
| 19:12 | <xris> | just in case |
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| 19:33 | <Chutt> | why wouldn't you guys just reboot the machine? |
| 19:33 | * | Chutt doesn't understand the difficulty here |
| 19:34 | <bkero> | Chutt: If it's load we don't want to mess up your builds |
| 19:34 | <Chutt> | nothing to mess up |
| 19:35 | <bkero> | Do you have the authority to reboot it?(if so I'll go do it) |
| 19:35 | <Chutt> | yes |
| 19:35 | <bkero> | k |
| 19:35 | <xris> | Chutt: I'm more concerned about potential file system corruption |
| 19:35 | <Chutt> | trac likely just got stuck in a memory leak loop as usual |
| 19:35 | <xris> | dunnno what wacky stuff Snow-Man has set up |
| 19:35 | <Chutt> | everything important is raided |
| 19:36 | <xris> | raid doesn't protect against some of that. |
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| 19:37 | <Chutt> | bkero, lemme know when you've rebooted it, please. |
| 19:38 | <Chutt> | ah, it's up. |
| 19:38 | <bkero> | Chutt: :) |
| 19:38 | <Chutt> | bkero, thank you =) |
| 19:38 | <bkero> | np |
| 19:40 | <Chutt> | everything appears to be working fine. |
| 19:40 | <Chutt> | i'll just blame it on trac, since that's what always takes down the machine |
| 19:42 | <clever> | more ulimit! |
| 19:42 | <Chutt> | yes |
| 19:42 | <clever> | i still havent thrown that at my 64mb apache box:P |
| 19:43 | <bkero> | apparmor apache :P |
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| 20:40 | * | Snow-Man sighs. |
| 20:44 | <Snow-Man> | trac is a likely culprit. |
| 20:46 | <bkero> | Snow-Man: howdy |
| 20:46 | <Snow-Man> | heya. |
| 20:46 | <Snow-Man> | thanks for rebooting it. |
| 20:46 | <bkero> | Sure thing |
| 20:46 | <bkero> | I just didn't want to screw your stuff up, so I waited |
| 20:46 | <Snow-Man> | In general it should be safe to do. |
| 20:46 | <bkero> | Ok |
| 20:47 | <Snow-Man> | trac tends to be a big, and once it's deep into swap, rebooting's probably safer than trying to do something else, heh. |
| 20:47 | <Snow-Man> | s/big/pig/ |
| 20:47 | <kormoc> | Snow-Man, have you thought about using ulimit to limit the apache user? |
| 20:48 | <Snow-Man> | we've done a few things to try and minimize the impact, havn't set a ulimit yet though, no. |
| 20:48 | <kormoc> | It should be fairly easy to deploy |
| 20:49 | <bkero> | You can set the number of child processes/worker threads too |
| 20:49 | <Snow-Man> | bkero: that we've done. |
| 20:49 | <Snow-Man> | bkero: the problem, in general, isn't the number of children or anything |
| 20:50 | <Snow-Man> | bkero: it's that each one grows to be stupidly large. |
| 20:50 | <Snow-Man> | We've already got max req. per child set down to 1000 |
| 20:50 | <kormoc> | Snow-Man, one other thing I wondered was why the OOM killer doesn't start in? |
| 20:50 | <Snow-Man> | and it's using prefork, etc. |
| 20:51 | <clever> | when i had similar problems i ran gnome-panel thru X11 forwarding, so i could monitor the swap/ram 24/7 |
| 20:51 | <clever> | and then i was able to catch it before it became unstable and track it down |
| 20:51 | <Snow-Man> | kormoc: I'm not sure it didn't? |
| 20:51 | <Snow-Man> | but it's not like it's just one process. |
| 20:52 | <clever> | using cacti&snmp you could do the same thing with less bandwidth&cpu&ram |
| 20:52 | <kormoc> | Snow-Man, true. Perhaps I'm just thinking they grew slower then they do |
| 20:52 | <Snow-Man> | eh, it takes a long time for them to get to be pigs |
| 20:52 | <Snow-Man> | but the OOM tends to come into the game *very* late |
| 20:53 | <Snow-Man> | and apache is going to respawn them if they die anyway |
| 20:53 | <kormoc> | ahh, fair 'nuff |
| 20:53 | <clever> | like when your 1000 miles away from the reset button for 2 weeks:P |
| 20:53 | <clever> | took the system 48 hours to recover that time |
| 20:53 | <Snow-Man> | heh |
| 20:56 | * | xris should go home. |
| 20:56 | <xris> | and in fact.. :) |
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| 20:57 | <Snow-Man> | guess I'll do some upgrades on the box. |
| 20:58 | <Snow-Man> | so, be aware that the host key will likely change. |
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| 21:01 | <clever> | you could save the ssh key if you wanted |
| 21:02 | <Snow-Man> | meh. |
| 21:03 | <clever> | recently i got a patch because the ssh key gen was poor |
| 21:03 | <clever> | made certain keys too much, had to regen mine |
| 21:03 | <kormoc> | clever, if it's a week host key, it should be changed |
| 21:03 | <clever> | yeah |
| 21:03 | <clever> | no way to get arround that |
| 21:04 | <clever> | just securely tell the users about the new key |
| 21:04 | <clever> | gpg sign or something |
| 21:04 | <Snow-Man> | erm, if it's any of those keys, it shouldn't be used, period. |
| 21:04 | <Snow-Man> | I just told them. |
| 21:04 | <Snow-Man> | :) |
| 21:05 | <clever> | i think the problem is, you can test the public hostkey against the list of probable keys |
| 21:05 | <clever> | then fake being the host |
| 21:05 | <clever> | but you would still need to intercept the tcp stream also |
| 21:07 | <bkero> | Have you ever thought of using something like apparmor to limit memory usage? |
| 21:09 | * | Snow-Man shrugs. |
| 21:09 | <Snow-Man> | I think we're really just hoping trac will fix itself some day. :D |
| 21:11 | <Snow-Man> | well |
| 21:12 | <Snow-Man> | trac's busted now, goodie. |
| 21:12 | <Snow-Man> | that'll mean it won't ever use too much memory at least. |
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| 21:32 | <Snow-Man> | ta-da, trac fixed. |
| 21:32 | <Snow-Man> | ugly ass fix, but it works. |
| 21:33 | <bkero> | lol |
| 21:33 | <bkero> | trac = bandaids |
| 21:33 | <clever> | i should peel that bandaid off my elbow and see if the memleak is stoped:P |
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| 21:34 | <Chutt> | i'll update trac + its dependencies this weekend |
| 21:34 | <Chutt> | their big 'trac has huge memleaks' bug is closed as fixed |
| 21:34 | <Snow-Man> | moving to 0.11 too? |
| 21:34 | <clever> | sounds fun, took me a day to figure out the sqlite->sqlite3 upgrade |
| 21:34 | <clever> | which now seems dead simple |
| 21:34 | <Snow-Man> | and to python2.5? |
| 21:35 | <Chutt> | Snow-Man, whatever current svn is |
| 21:35 | <Chutt> | is python2.5 in debian yet? |
| 21:35 | <Snow-Man> | yes |
| 21:35 | <Chutt> | is stuff built against it? |
| 21:35 | <Snow-Man> | that's what I was just beating back with a stick |
| 21:35 | <Snow-Man> | heh, libapache2-mod-python is built against it, the current version is sid |
| 21:35 | <Chutt> | last time i checked, most of the stuff trac needed (svn bindings, database bindings, mod-python) weren't |
| 21:35 | <Snow-Man> | which meant shit broke, so I had to forcibly downgrade it to the prior version |
| 21:36 | <Snow-Man> | I'm pretty sure it's all there now.. |
| 21:36 | <Chutt> | ah, cool. |
| 21:36 | <Snow-Man> | I don't do alot of python stuff tho, so don't just take my word on it. :) |
| 21:36 | <Snow-Man> | They've been pushing real hard to get everything to 2.5 tho |
| 21:36 | <Chutt> | yeah, i'll check |
| 21:37 | <Snow-Man> | this was me about 2 minutes ago: |
| 21:37 | <Snow-Man> | ===# dpkg --force-depends -i /var/cache/apt/archives/libapache2-mod-python_3.3.1-3_amd64.deb |
| 21:37 | <Snow-Man> | heh. |
| 21:37 | <Chutt> | heh |
| 21:37 | <Snow-Man> | Preparing to replace libapache2-mod-python 3.3.1-3+b1 (using .../libapache2-mod-python_3.3.1-3_amd64.deb) ... |
| 21:37 | <Snow-Man> | note that '+b1' is a binary-only rebuild which moves it to 2.5. |
| 21:38 | <Chutt> | ah |
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| 21:44 | <Snow-Man> | going to upgrade the main host part of the box now, though not the kernel. |
| 21:45 | <Snow-Man> | that should be done at some point, but there isn't a kernel in Debian which has the vserver patch atm. |
| 21:45 | <Snow-Man> | mostly because the vserver patch is still on .22, heh. |
| 21:45 | <Chutt> | heh |
| 21:45 | <Chutt> | did you upgrade the www vserver? |
| 21:45 | <Snow-Man> | not yet, no. |
| 21:46 | <Snow-Man> | that's the.. 'fun' one.. |
| 21:46 | <Chutt> | heh |
| 21:46 | <Chutt> | bah, it's only apache |
| 21:46 | <Snow-Man> | and mailman |
| 21:46 | <Chutt> | oh right |
| 21:46 | <Snow-Man> | I can give it a whirl tho, I suppose. |
| 21:46 | <Chutt> | i can try this weekend |
| 21:46 | <Snow-Man> | a'ight. |
| 21:47 | <Chutt> | does upgrading automatically regenerate those weak keys? |
| 21:47 | <Snow-Man> | yes. |
| 21:47 | <Snow-Man> | and should also automatically start rejecting user keys which are weak |
| 21:48 | <Chutt> | ah |
| 21:48 | <Chutt> | cool. |
| 21:50 | <clever> | and spews a warning telling you so:) |
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| 21:53 | <Snow-Man> | hah! |
| 21:53 | <Snow-Man> | the main box was old enough to not have a bad key. :D |
| 21:53 | <Snow-Man> | fyi, the upgrade of the main box is done. |
| 21:53 | <clever> | i think its just a chance thing |
| 21:54 | <clever> | half the keys it makes are predictable |
| 21:54 | <Snow-Man> | ... |
| 21:54 | <Snow-Man> | yea, so, no, not really. |
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| 21:55 | <bkero> | the openssl-blacklist should autoreject weak keys |
| 21:55 | <bkero> | Yay repeating |
| 21:55 | <Snow-Man> | I assume you mean openssh-blacklist. :) |
| 21:55 | <bkero> | aye |
| 21:55 | <clever> | that doesnt mean 100% of the keys made by old code are weak |
| 21:56 | <Snow-Man> | no, just 100% of the keys made by the specific Debian-modified code in question are weak. |
| 21:56 | <Snow-Man> | Which ran for a couple of years.. |
| 21:56 | <Snow-Man> | keys made older than that are, in general, fine. |
| 21:56 | <bkero> | and dsa keys that ever interacted with a debian system :P |
| 21:57 | <clever> | ahh debian made a tweak that broke it |
| 21:57 | <Snow-Man> | where have you been, exactly? |
| 21:57 | <Snow-Man> | and why are you still talking? |
| 21:57 | <clever> | that explains why older systems havent harmed it |
| 21:57 | <clever> | i saw the msg about it from a ubuntu upgrade(debian based) |
| 21:58 | <clever> | but i didnt dig into the problem much |
| 21:58 | <bkero> | Ya'll should've been using dropbear. :P |
| 21:59 | <clever> | whats to say they dont have twice as many bugs?:P |
| 21:59 | <bkero> | It very well could |
| 21:59 | <bkero> | But they're not publicly disclosed like some. :P |
| 21:59 | <Snow-Man> | gee, great |
| 21:59 | <Snow-Man> | bugs only the bad guys know about |
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| 21:59 | <Snow-Man> | those are the *best* |
| 22:00 | <clever> | now i ant check for problems myself! |
| 22:00 | <clever> | or fix them! |
| 22:00 | <bkero> | I'm just making a joke you turds. |
| 22:00 | <clever> | just like windows kernel bugs:P |
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| 22:01 | <clever> | ive got a palm based ssh client, and it warns me that it cant make good random numbers and may be unsecure |
| 22:01 | <Snow-Man> | hah, 'turds' |
| 22:01 | <clever> | and its natrualy got low ram/cpu |
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| 22:02 | <Snow-Man> | a'ight, welp, I'm done for the night on that stuff. |
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| --- | Log | closed Thu May 29 00:00:46 2008 |