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#mythtv IRC Logs for 2008-06-12

---Logopened Thu Jun 12 00:00:50 2008
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00:19<high-rez>Hey Guys - I bought a siig "vista mce remote" assuming it's just a standard old mce driver. But it doesn't seem to be working. Any suggestion on making it work ?
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00:25<cecil>high-rez: #mythtv-users or #lirc
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01:01<Ace2016>morning all
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07:39<gbee>does it make more sense to give each library it's own version number, or too much hassle?
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07:54<gbee>I've no evidence that gcc 4.3 is any slower than earlier versions but it feels slow
07:55<janneg>since they are not used outside of mythtv (except some plugins afaik) it's probably too hassle
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08:03<J_t_M>laga & Anduin: Looks like the patch I suggested on here the other day didn't work. My current rip time for a damaged DVD is currently showing at about 2000+ hours.
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08:11<laga>J_t_M: saD :(
08:12<J_t_M>Yehr I know
08:12<J_t_M>I even set up a separate MythBuntu install in a VM to get everything working without damaging my existing setup.
08:12<J_t_M>Ah well
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09:26<laga>i'm trying to build svn trunk on hardy and getting this error:
09:27<laga>is that a real problem or just me being stupid?
09:36*janneg blames gbee
09:37<gbee>this is what I hate about juggling patches, I _really_ need to look at quilt
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09:55<gbee>laga: try it now
10:07<Ace2016>someone help, i need icon ideas for media library
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10:28<Ace2016>guess what
10:28<Ace2016>there is a theme like mine already :(
10:29<laga>i guess you can get some icon ideas from there then ;)
10:29<Ace2016>oh lol, it wasn't mythtv
10:29<Ace2016>can mythtv have custom menus?
10:29<Ace2016>are the menus a part of the skin?
10:31<gbee>Ace2016: menus can be customised and _can_ optionally be included with the UI theme
10:32<gbee>and no, I'm not giving away my watermark ideas, It's hard enough to come up with them ;)
10:32<Ace2016>oh good, so i can just rename media library to say my media?
10:32<Ace2016>you make themes?
10:34<gbee>one so far, not making more until I've finished the UI re-write
10:35<Ace2016>so the theme engine is being rewritten?
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10:40<Ace2016>so will the current themes still work with the new one?
10:41<gbee>no, the core themes will probably be re-written (although some of us would rather use the opportunity to ditch them)
10:42<laga>gbee: thanks, it seems to build now
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10:42<gbee>the xml is similar, but not the same
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10:43<gbee>honestly, I'd say there is little point porting most of the old themes, they will look out-dated when new themes appear which make full use of the new code
10:44<Ace2016>oh ok i think i'll wait untill the new theme engine out
10:45<gbee>I don't want to stop you making your theme, but if you intend doing a full theme you should just be aware - if you are only changing a few images then it won't be so bad
10:45<Ace2016>well i was doing everything from scratch
10:45<Ace2016>so any eta?
10:46<laga>gbee: is trunk still only suitable for those who can fix stuff themselves?
10:47<gbee>laga: it's been pretty stable for me, but there probably are a few things that area still broken - nothing that prevent recording/playback etc though
10:48<laga>gbee: okay. just wondering if i should make new weekly trunk builds, but maybe i'll wait
10:48<gbee>Ace2016: not really, I'm hoping to have most of it done by the end of the summer but that might be too optimistic
10:50<gbee>changes won't appear until 0.22
10:50<Chutt>trunk's pretty stable for me
10:55<laga>nice. looks like i won't have to redo all patches :)
10:55<Ace2016>gbee: is the new theme engine still based on png images?
10:55<gbee>Ace2016: yes
10:56<gbee>although at some point after the major lifting has been done, I might add SWF support
10:57<laga>SWF? as in "flash"?
10:58<Ace2016>just add animated gifs or something
10:59<Chutt>it supports animation from a set of images
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11:08<janneg>does qt support animateg svg?
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11:26<gbee>swf? I meant svg, sorry for the confusion
11:27<gbee>qt4 adds support for svg, don't think that extends to animation
11:27<gbee>the present animation stuff in mythui is fine for now anyway
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11:28<gbee>qt does support animated gifs, but gif is probably the worse format for high resolution images so animated gif support will probably never be added to mythui
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12:09<MrGandalf>has any animation been introduced to Myth yet?
12:10<teprrr>themes can be animated.. or at least the background image
12:11<MrGandalf>opengl animation would be slick as well
12:15<gbee>MrGandalf: mythui already offers image animation and movement animation (text/images move around the screen), text colour cycling animation and their are plans for further widget specific animation effects such as smooth scrolling etc in lists
12:16<MrGandalf>gbee: how about static image animation using opengl?
12:16<gbee>most animation effects will require the GL painter be used since the QT one just isn't fast enough - or wasn't with QT 3 at least
12:16<gbee>MrGandalf: such as?
12:17<MrGandalf>like images flipping or rotating
12:17<MrGandalf>or a slideshow effect
12:17<gbee>yeah, we'll probably add that sort of stuff
12:17*MrGandalf can't wait :)
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12:19<gbee>static transformations are already in my tree, although right now they use QT - animating transitions wouldn't be that hard but to be fully hardware accelerated I'll need to move that stuff into the painters
12:20<MrGandalf>having all those effects available on the OSD would be really slick as well.
12:28<gbee>the OSD code will be replaced with mythui too, but I'm concentrating on the main UI first
12:32<MrGandalf>You can't do both at the same time and have it all done by the end of the week?
12:33<MrGandalf>I gotta tell ya, I'm disappointed.. I expected faster - error free work.
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13:03<Ace2016>gbee: will the new version support svg? i want scalable themes
13:03<Chutt>scalable how?
13:03<Chutt>i mean, all of them already scale
13:03<Ace2016>scale the icons
13:04<Chutt>they do that currently.
13:04<Ace2016>so can you already use svg?
13:04<Chutt>why do you need svg to scale?
13:05<Ace2016>so that the images scale without pixelation on larger displays
13:05<Ace2016>so that anyone can use my theme independent of resolution
13:05<Chutt>see, that's _completely_ different
13:05<Chutt>because anyone right now _can_ use your theme independent of resolution.
13:06<Chutt>that whole "pre-scaling theme images" that people always complain about on startup =)
13:06<Ace2016>so i have to make massive icons or what?
13:06<Ace2016>so i have to aim for 16000 x 12000?
13:06<Chutt>look at all the other themes.
13:07<Ace2016>i mean if you upscale its going to look ugly
13:07<Chutt>depends on your source res
13:07<GreyFoxx>800x600 for 4:3 themes, 1280x720 for 16:9 themes
13:07<Chutt>1280x720 upscaled to 1080p doesn't look bad at all.
13:08<Ace2016>I intend to put it on a crt monitor
13:08<Ace2016>or an lcd, which will require higher resolutions right?
13:08<Ace2016>i'm making the theme so i'm trying to figure out what res to work on
13:08<iamlindoro__>Ace2016, the resolutions were just quoted are the ones you *must* work in as of now
13:09<Ace2016>so if i do go with some HUGE resolution, then it will scale?
13:09<iamlindoro__>must == must
13:09<iamlindoro__>must != optional
13:10<Ace2016>those resolutions are tiny
13:10*Ace2016 wants bigger
13:10<Chutt>they're TV resolutions.
13:10*Ace2016 wants to use a crt as a TV
13:10<Chutt>mythtv runs on a tv.
13:10<Chutt>the video you're going to display isn't any larger.
13:10<Ace2016>but i want myth large
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13:11<Chutt>too bad =)
13:11<Ace2016>800x600 really?
13:11<Ace2016>thats horrible, can't you increase it just a bit?
13:11<iamlindoro__>or 1280x720 for -wide themes
13:11<Chutt>since most SD tvs are 640x480, yes
13:11<Ace2016>say to 1024x768?
13:11<Chutt>800x600's more than enough.
13:11<Ace2016>what happens when i run mythtv on my crt?
13:11<Ace2016>will it stretch?
13:12<Chutt>it scales
13:12<Chutt>just like it will for video.
13:13<Ace2016>is a hdtv really lower resolution than 800x600?
13:13<Chutt>hdtvs are either 1280x720 or 1920x1080
13:14<Ace2016>so why aren't mythtv themes that big?
13:14<Chutt>1280x720 for 16:9 themes
13:14<Ace2016>and what if you use a 4:3 screen to watch hdtv?
13:14<Chutt>you'll get scaling?
13:15<Chutt>for the menus
13:15<iamlindoro__>Your 4:3 screen is almost certainly 640x480 anyway
13:15<iamlindoro__>So if anything an 800x600 theme is too *many* pixels
13:15<Ace2016>i'm going to use a crt as a TV
13:16<Ace2016>TVs suck
13:16<iamlindoro__>You keep using that word... I don't think it means what you think it means
13:16<iamlindoro__>TVs *are* CRTs, but CRTs can also be used in high-resolution displays
13:16<iamlindoro__>well, some TVs are anyway... shitty ones.
13:17<Ace2016>yes well everyone calls fat computer monitors CRTs
13:17<iamlindoro__>Anyway, why don't you *look* at what regular myth themes look like on your display before asking for code changes that will never happen?
13:17<iamlindoro__>I run -wide themes at 1080p and they look astonishingly good
13:17<Chutt>actually, gbee was making it so they could be authored at any res
13:18<Chutt>and just talking about svg, but
13:18<iamlindoro__>Chutt, understood, I guess I meant the "on-demand" code changes :)
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13:29<gbee>the underlying stuff is there to allow themes to be created at any resolution, it's no more than 10 minutes work to finish that code
13:31<gbee>there isn't a lot of point going higher than 1280x720 though, if you are using the screen as a TV you won't be sitting close enough to see scaling artifacts
13:32<gbee>even then, I use a 1440x900 screen for development and 1280x720 themes look just fine up close
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13:49<MrGandalf>svg is a whole lot better for scaling, just harder to create the images.
13:54<gbee>I created all the images for Metallurgy in SVG, so it makes things a little easier if I can use them without first exporting to PNG
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14:09<gbee>the image scaling in QT does a pretty good job, I've seen commercial drawing apps which can't scale half as well
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14:36<MrGandalf>I remember the old vector icons in Irix.. they were pretty slick at the time.
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17:09<gbee>hmm, skipping to the end of an in-progress recording causes it to exit playback, wonder when that was broken
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17:13<stuarta>a while ago
17:14<gbee>ugh, means finding the changset which caused the regression is going to be impossible
17:15<gbee>post 0.21? i.e. possibly QT4 related?
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17:19<stuarta>afaik yes
17:20*laga installs trunk in a VM
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17:21<gbee>not so bad then, but I'll open a ticket as a reminder for when I have more time
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17:22<stuarta>i must remember to check if cancelling an in progress recording works
17:22<stuarta>or if it was just a side effect of what i was doing at the time
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17:24<laga>yay, segfault. :)
17:28<laga>oh, it got the wrong prefix somehow. i guess that's the problem.
17:29<gbee>well backtrace anyway, segfaults are evil
17:29<stuarta>heh, i've got two installs in parallel. much fun :)
17:30<laga>i use a VM because of that.. i'm not that insane ;)
17:30<stuarta>i am :)
17:30<laga>gbee: ok, i'll try
17:30<stuarta>that and i've only got 1 tuner in this dev / production slave machine
17:31<stuarta>run 0.21-fixes, it's a slave
17:31<stuarta>run head, it's my dev box :)
17:31*stuarta makes a note to write that up on his website
17:33<laga>yay, no menu entries. </FAQY
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17:39<laga>now i wish i had tested mythfrontend before upgrading. doesn't work with the qt painter either.
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17:44<laga>fix: sudo aptitude install msttcorefonts. shame on me.
17:45*stuarta wonders if that's why i've been having shit fonts for ages
17:46<laga>now i wish i had a capture card in virtualbox :)
17:50<janneg>laga: I have one and a pretty powerful if you ignore that mythtv can't talk with it yet
17:51<laga>janneg: i could have one, too. but i'm too lazy to unbox the dbox :)
17:52<janneg>laga: well, do you mean to unbox the bricks? I don't think mythtv can capture video of from bricks
17:53<janneg>I'm assuming it's still in the same box I used for shipping
17:54<laga>janneg: looks like someone on ebay will have to deal with that problem then.
17:54<laga>janneg: don't worry, i know you can't be trusted so i checked the box before putting it into storage.
17:55<laga>interesting. it seems that --prefix won't override --runtime-prefix automagically
17:56<laga>(where "override" = sets sane defaults )
17:56<janneg>I would have done the same since I'm not trusting DHL
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19:12<laga>gbee: have there been any big changes to the themes in trunk? or will old ones continue working?
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19:31<gbee>laga: mythweather, mythgallery, mythnews, mythflix and maybe ones I've forgotten have changed, if the theme you are using changed these areas then you need an updated version of the theme
19:31<laga>gbee: ok, thanks. so i'll have to prepare updated themes packages as well
19:31<gbee>none of the core themes (mythtv/themes or myththemes) did actually theme these areas
19:32<gbee>there might be changes I'm forgetting
19:33<janneg>GreyFoxx: hey, I just wanted to let you know that I got 3 weeks ago a 9 hour recording
19:34<janneg>unfortunately it's a HD recording that means I can't cut it with mythtranscode since it's h264
19:35<GreyFoxx>At least it's not just me ;)
19:40<janneg>GreyFoxx: it was the first time
19:41<janneg>the recording looks a little bit small for 9 hours though, just 43G
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---Logclosed Fri Jun 13 00:00:25 2008