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#mythtv IRC Logs for 2008-07-16

---Logopened Wed Jul 16 00:00:15 2008
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00:58<aprotim>Hey, just out of curiosity, is there a technical reason for determining that a machine is the master backend based on an IP address comparison?
00:59<aprotim>e.g. is there a reason for me not to try to patch it to figure out it's the master backend if the IP is set to
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01:29<okolsi>janneg, kormoc: nice timing :) thanks for the fix
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05:11<laga>cskowronnek: how is your frontend comin along?
05:31<stuarta>aprotim: brokenness in QT3, it's been fixed in head
05:31<stuarta>well you can now use names anyway
05:31<aprotim>well, that's something at least
05:33<aprotim>I'm also really confused as to why frontend settings are stored on the backend
05:33<stuarta>they are stored in the database
05:33<stuarta>which generally happens to be on the backend
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05:34<stuarta>there is a grand plan to at some point have an embedded db for the frontend
05:34<aprotim>I understand why, I just don't understand *why*
05:34<stuarta>but we'll be finishing the QT4 port before doing any of that malarky
05:34<gbee>because people generally don't want to be setting up lots of databases, one for each frontend
05:34<stuarta>why? cause at the time the DB was there and it was easy
05:34<aprotim>I mean, it seems a lot like a bdb file per frontend would do the job of settings (for frontends)
05:34<laga>GreyFoxx: okay, i'm still trying to download a recording. care to take a look and tell me what i'm doing wrong?
05:34<stuarta>it's historical
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05:35<aprotim>I'm never sure when design decisions have good reasons I don't get, or they're what's there
05:35<gbee>and also because there is such a thing as a livecd frontend, where you stick a CD into any machine on a network and it becomes the frontend - it grabs settings from the backend so local storage isn't touched
05:36<aprotim>gbee: there's no reason to set up a full dbms for config
05:36<aprotim>that's a fair point
05:36<stuarta>the point is it wasn't setup for config
05:37<stuarta>it was setup to store the program data, and other backend stuff
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05:37<aprotim>sure sure
05:37<stuarta>access for storing frontend stuff was therefore simple
05:37<aprotim>I'm not making the argument that mythtv shouldn't use a dbms at all
05:37<gbee>with a single database you also have a single point of backup
05:37<stuarta>rather than adding an extra db for the frontend
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05:39<gbee>which is why although it is planned for the frontend to have an embedded database at some point, it will still store settings in the backend but simply cache that information in the frontend - so the frontend can operate disconnected from the backend/network and resyncs when reconnected
05:39<stuarta>hence "grand plan" :)
05:39<aprotim>why not make it a frontend setting?
05:40<stuarta>make what a frontend setting?
05:41<aprotim>that is, instead of (or in addition to) doing sync, make it so that you can either back frontend settings with the backend database, or a local file
05:41<gbee>hmm, we could probably do with a 'copy settings from host' option, so setting up identically configured frontends is made easier ...
05:41<aprotim>for instance, i have a unified backend/frontend, where I definitely appreciate having a single point of backup
05:42<aprotim>but I have (or want to have) a number of floating frontends (laptops)
05:42<stuarta>it's quite possible to make it have both local copy and in the DB with autoresync
05:43<stuarta>it's not even rocket science, since most of the difficulties that you normally get with resyncing won't occur with our use case
05:45<aprotim>but a.) I don't necessarily have control of the names of every host I might allow on my network, which means a centralized settings DB runs the risk of namespace conflicts
05:45*stuarta shrugs
05:46<stuarta>use the stick of beating where required
05:46<aprotim>b.) I don't necessarily want my table size to scale with the number of frontends that have ever connected (for instance, if a friend connects, leaves, and his laptop then explodes, I don't know if I can clean out those settings, so they just stay in there crufting up the table)
05:46<stuarta>there aren't a lot of records for frontend setting
05:46<aprotim>c.) (obviously the real reason) my frontend is slow and DB accesses make it shudder while playing back on my HDTV
05:47<stuarta>massively dwarfed by the size of recorded seek and other recording data tables;
05:48<aprotim>hmm, good point
05:49<laga>GreyFoxx: does the MythXML stuff only work for recordings local to that backend?
05:49<stuarta>tried tuning your mysql? like adding a query cache?
05:50<aprotim>I can try to do that
05:52<aprotim>while I'm asking inane n00b questions - I'm trying to figure out in the code why I get three separate progress bars for theme prescaling, but I figure one of you might actually know
05:55<hads>Also, DELETE FROM settings WHERE hostname = 'foo';
05:55<clever>hads: theres several tables of per host stuff
05:55<hads>You get the idea.
05:56<aprotim>hads: I know, but if I don't maintain all the frontends, I don't know if I can delete them
05:56<laga>clever: you don't happen to have solved the loop in bufferedsocketdevice.cpp? ;)
05:56<stuarta>that sounds nasty
05:56<clever>laga: not yet, hasnt happened again
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05:56<laga>clever: i'm jealous :)
05:57<clever>i could push it again to force it into happening
05:57<clever>right now i just had my frontend ignore the input again
05:57<laga>oh, i'm just playing with mythxml and wondering why nothing is working..
05:57<clever>had to kill -9
05:57*laga stares at the code
05:59<clever>one of my daily shows has just changed its schedule also
05:59<clever>and the guide data is blank
05:59<clever>so im having to record everything and manualy delete the dups
05:59<stuarta>better than missing some
05:59<clever>also since its summer its all reruns and the whole patern to the repeats has gone away
06:00<clever>i was down to 700mb free last night
06:01<clever>also they have started to cut&paste peices of the episodes together
06:01<clever>so now i have 2 files which are 20% identical
06:02<stuarta>that sucks
06:03<clever>got 4 hours of disk space free now
06:03<clever>which should last until 6:30 pm
06:03<clever>now i can get some sleep
06:04<clever>and yes its currently 7am!
06:05<laga>i always thought you located in the UK
06:06<aprotim>stuarta: is the hostname fix in trunk only, or in 0.21-fixes, too?
06:07*laga cries
06:07<stuarta>aprotim: trunk due to it needing QT4
06:08<aprotim>laga: because of my question, or mythxml?
06:08<stuarta>or canada ;-P
06:08<aprotim>all of the above?
06:09<laga>if you request a recording using MythXML, it doesn't want the start time as shown by GetRecorded
06:09<laga>it wants the time where it actually began recording: recStartTs
06:10<laga>that was.. slightly confusing.
06:11<laga>ooh. it's working now!
06:11<laga>and it's very fast.
06:12<laga>GreyFoxx: my problem is solved. yay.
06:12<laga>i didn't know you could go that fast over fast ethernet. ;)
06:14<aprotim>so stuarta - is it just fluke that by using hostname in mythtv-setup on a 0.21-fixes install it didn't fail?
06:15<aprotim>of course, it still considered it localhost, which was weird
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06:16<aprotim>well, not that weird
06:16<aprotim>just not what I wanted
06:16<aprotim>since I was trying to test out upnp
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06:20<okolsi>anyone with commit access and interest in upnp.. any way the one-liner in #4372 could go in?
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06:22<laga>hum. is it possible to have two recordings with the same file name? or is it some kind of unique key still?
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06:44<gbee>still a unique key, chanid_starttime should uniquely identify a single programme
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06:44<laga>gbee: yeah, i was wondering what happens when people rename recordings.
06:45<gbee>ahh, I haven't a clue
06:52<stuarta>i supect the rename script changes the db too
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06:53<gbee>it does, but I think laga is asking what happens if two recordings a given identical names
06:54<stuarta>bad thing i suspect
06:55<laga>hum. eclipse is a wee bit nicer than vim for developing
06:56<stuarta>kdevelop isn't bad either
06:56<laga>stuarta: do you use it with MythTV? or qt, rather.
06:57<laga>having some kind of auto completion would be nice
06:57<stuarta>kdevelop, sure sometimes. use vim just as often
06:58<laga>it is probably a safe assumption that people will always want to download files over MythXML instead of using NFS.
06:58<laga>i don't want to introduce yet another setting. :) or maybe a hidden one.
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06:59<gbee>laga: I think that assumption is a good one, it's the whole point of switching to using mythxml if you ask me
07:01<laga>yeah. although people might use NFS for access control. mytharchive only shows existing files by default
07:01<laga>so if they just mount one of their storage groups..
07:01<stuarta>are we thinking of using this for streaming files?
07:02<gbee>mythvideo, mythmusic etc streamed from the backend instead of requiring each frontend to mount an NFS/Samba share
07:02<laga>stuarta: *I* want to make mytharchive more useful by letting it download files from the backend directly.
07:03<laga>because setting up NFS and SMB is a PITA especially if we already have MythXML. :)
07:04<gbee>exactly, MythXML/upnp is err, plug and play - setting up mounts for each frontend is a pain and for the livecd mentioned earlier it's not even that practical
07:05<laga>i wonder how easy it is to convert mythmusic and mythvideo, at least the internal player, to mythxml.
07:06<laga>or maybe it would make more sense to make them UPnP clients.
07:07<gbee>*sigh* Go-Daddy are busy encouraging frivolous domain registration in TV ads atm :(
07:07<aprotim>so that they can steal them from you?
07:07<laga>frivolous domains?
07:08<aprotim>domains that have lavish parties just to make themselves feel better, you know
07:09<gbee>laga: ad shows a couple of guys in an office registering a bunch of domains just because they cost £0.99 each
07:09<laga>oh, great.
07:10<gbee>not because they actually need or will use all those domains ...
07:10<aprotim>btw, with you guys all talking about UPnP love, is there some magical incantation to make mediacloud play nice when a frontend uses UPnP just fine?
07:10<aprotim>mediacloud being my proxy for a third-party UPnP client
07:11<aprotim>or rather, instance of a third-party client
07:12<gbee>laga: long term it makes sense to make mythmusic/mythvideo upnp clients but if that's too much work then I see no problem with just converting them to use mythxml in the short term
07:12<gbee>of course even that requires bits of mythmusic to be moved to the backend, e.g. scanning
07:13<laga>oh, i didn't think about that. what about local music collections?
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07:13<laga>so you'd need a backend running on a frontend box..
07:16<gbee>no, just that the scanning portions of mythmusic would need to be moved into a library shared by both the frontend and the backend
07:17<gbee>so the frontend could scan local collections, and the backend scan the centralised collection
07:17<laga>how would you avoid scanning twice on combined machines?
07:17<laga>the backend will probably need to scan automatically.
07:17<laga>i think there already is a scanner for mythvideo at least
07:20<laga>yay, mytharchivehelper now reports if a file is non-local..
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07:23<gbee>mythvideo is slightly easier since the metadata isn't embedded
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07:47<laga> could be converted to use the python bindings for some things
07:53<gbee>python is evil :p
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07:55<laga>i'll get over it.
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08:09<gbee>I wouldn't mind if mytharchive didn't depend on python at all, but I don't suppose that's going to happen any time soon
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08:13<gbee>not sure how to make mythuilistbutton scale to different sizes as well as mythlistbutton did, it's not as easy as it first sounds
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08:29<laga>heh. i was wondering why my code wasn't working.. turns out the backend was hanging again :)
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08:38<stuarta>laga: that's a good plan :)
08:39<lyricnz>which airport is closest/easiest for london? gatwick or luton?
08:39<stuarta>either that or i have to sort out nfs to the osx frontend
08:39<stuarta>or heathrow, or stanstead
08:39<stuarta>or city
08:39<stuarta>and wtf are you asking this here?
08:39<laga>stuarta: i'm one TypeError away from making mytharchive work.
08:41<lyricnz>My bad, I'm in the wrong tab :)
08:41<lyricnz>Going to a conference, but not mythtv conference ;)
08:42<stuarta>i spose with an xml interface that would give us the flexibility to request a specific encoding?
08:42<danielk22>laga: In response to your earlier question, I got MythTV to compile + create debs on intrepid, but I want to look at addressing some the issues that require patches like the gnome screensaver default. In LMCE we use KDE not Gnome so I don't know if we even use the gnome screensaver -- but in anycase MythTV should adjust to the screensaver currently in use...
08:43<laga>danielk22: i think there is some standard thing.
08:43<stuarta>iirc it doesn't play well with the gnome one
08:43<danielk22>laga: I'll do a google then :)
08:43<laga>i'm glad you got it to compile because it's not working for me on the PPA right now - but that's a packaging issue i need to work out.
08:43<danielk22>PPA ?
08:43<laga>stuarta: we're patching that in ubuntu :)
08:44<laga>danielk22: Personal Package Archive. basically a service in launchpad which lets you have your own repository
08:44<danielk22>ah, nice
08:44<stuarta>a bit like git for packages?
08:44<laga>stuarta: patch as in "s/xscreensaver/gnome-screensaver/"
08:44<stuarta>that's what i suspected
08:45<laga>stuarta: humm... i don't know git well enough :) you upload your source package and it builds them for you.
08:46<laga>it's just sad they don't also have that for debian. that would make it really useful
08:47<stuarta>yes, debian is beginning to annoy me
08:47<stuarta>i want my firefox to be called firefox, not iceweasel
08:47<stuarta>or it iceape
08:47<stuarta>or is that thunderbird
08:47<laga>i'm not saying debian is against the PPA, it's just that the PPAs can't build for debian.
08:47<stuarta>that's cosmetic really
08:48<laga>and i guess you can still install firefox in debian..
08:48<stuarta>but it's the lack of 32bit libs on the 64bit libs that means you can't install firefox
08:48<danielk22>stuarta: and all because they didn't want to apply security fixes too, right? And the f-ed up openssh.
08:48<laga>stuarta: the whole firefox/iceweasel issue is an excellent piece of developer drama.
08:48<stuarta>danielk22: nah, that was cause they were "fixing" a bug revealed by valgrind
08:48<danielk22>i'm afraid to even look at any mythtv packages they may have.
08:49<laga>danielk22: debian does not have mythtv packages. they're hosted by marillat.
08:49<stuarta>i just build from sources
08:49<laga>there was a project to rip out liblame support, tho :)
08:50<danielk22>stuarta: hehe, this random number generator may give random results better patch that and not tell upstream!
08:50<stuarta>ah well
08:53<danielk22>Seriously, the openssh guys screwed up too by not checking that buffer for it's entropy.. But I know MythTV has plenty of areas like that too.
08:53<stuarta>well they did have comments in the source that if you are valgrinding turn on this ifdef
08:53<laga>it's downloading a recording \o/
08:53<danielk22>The "don't touch this or things will break horribly" sections :)
08:54<stuarta>at this rate i might have to move my production setup to head, it's getting stable again!
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08:54<laga>hum. i shouldn't have used a 5G recording for testing.
08:55*laga wanders off to get some food
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10:02<laga>stuarta, gbee: yay. mytharchive is now working transparently. :)
10:03<stuarta>i'll have to check that out on my mac mini
10:06<gbee>laga: does it popup a busy/progress dialog or similar during the transfer?
10:06<stuarta>i would have expected seamless streaming like the frontend does
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10:08<gbee>for burning to a DVD or similar?
10:09<laga>gbee: there is no poup. mytharchive is basically a big log viewer. :)
10:09<laga>err, popup.
10:09<laga>stuarta: you can't really stream stuff for DVD burning. you need to mangle those files a lot
10:09<gbee>love how PC manufacturers have now seized on the idea of HD to boast that their machine has a HD screen .... I'd guess most laptops and all PCs have been sold with 'HD' screens for some time
10:10<stuarta>i read mythvideo where you wrote mytharchive
10:11*stuarta ho hums and goes in search of nibbles
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13:56<iamlindoro_>danielk22: Thanks a ton for 17822, that fixed a lot of my mythtranscode issues with trunk. Have you ever taken a look at #2077, since you seem to be looking at mythtranscode these days?
14:05<danielk22>iamlindoro: I don't use mythtranscode myself, so I only look at it in response to tickets with patches.
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14:07<iamlindoro_>danielk22: ah, ok. Well thanks nonetheless
14:11<iamlindoro_>I have a workaround to #2077 that works more or less for me by dumping the streams with xport and remuxing them with ffmpeg, but it introduces audio sync issues and is kludgy at best, so maybe someone will be inspired to take a look sometime soon
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15:35<gbee>hurray, multiple frontend support! now I just need for the cards to come down in price and the drivers to sort themselves out
15:40*kormoc blinks
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15:47<GreyFoxx>oh joy pulling up the mythweb upcoming recordings caused my master backend to crash :)
15:47<GreyFoxx>2008-07-16 16:45:13.329 adding: woop as a client (events: 0)
15:47<GreyFoxx>ASSERT failure in QList<T>::operator[]: "index out of range", file /usr/lib/qt-4.3.4/include/QtCore/qlist.h, line 399
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15:49<iamlindoro_>GreyFoxx: I have seen that same segfault on mine, may be related (although different cause)
15:49<iamlindoro_>hmmm, that's at qlist.h at 401, but maybe somehow related?
15:50<GreyFoxx>I updated my checkout of trunk last night, definately never saw this before it
15:50<GreyFoxx>just updated again to see if it's fixed already :)
16:06<gbee>likely to be different, there are a few places we iterate past the end of a list/map or try to access a record which doesn't exist, in QT3 it failed silently but in QT4 it asserts
16:08<gbee>tracking down the cause can be a pain, you need to set a breakpoint on qassert and yet again I've forgotten the actual method name you want to use for that
16:09<danielk22>you can set a define which turns QASSERTs into regular asserts, then just examine the core..
16:11<GreyFoxx>Ok, no crash this time
16:11<GreyFoxx>using trunk from a few minutes ago
16:12<GreyFoxx>~Though it seems to me that I used mythweb last night after the update and it worked then too
16:12<GreyFoxx>so it might be intermittent
16:12*gbee writes it down, because that's the fourth or fifth time I've forgotten
16:12<laga>GreyFoxx: thanks for all the help with MythXML, i got it nailed now
16:13<janneg>iirc you have to set the break on qassert_x
16:13<GreyFoxx>I'd still like to know the cause of the 100% cpu issue
16:13<gbee>janneg: well searching logs I've used qFatal before now, but as long as it works
16:13<laga>GreyFoxx: yes, me too. it's not going to fix itself.
16:14<laga>GreyFoxx: i guess i'll attach gdb and do some hammering on port 5544
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16:45<gnome42>GreyFoxx, laga: did you happen to try that debug patch (on #5268) for the 100% cpu issue?
16:45<laga>no, not yet
16:46<gnome42>laga: k, it solved the problem for me
16:46<gnome42>laga: not sure it's the same problem though :)
16:48<laga>well, mine seem to be related to UPnP
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17:03<javatexan>have yall seen this
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17:32<gbee>Chutt: is there any particular reason we "delete" screentypes instead of DeleteLater() ?
17:36<janneg>if there is no need to deleteLater() delete is cleaner
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18:00<gbee>passing a QString through a void pointer doesn't seem to be a good idea
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18:35<gbee>can't see what I'm missing here, would anyone like to point out what is wrong with the qstring in void pointer here:
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18:59<danielk22>gbee: you are call setData with a pointer to a temporary which goes away as soon as you hit the } in the while block.
19:00<danielk22>if you did button->setData(new QString(key)); it would work (but you would also need to free it later).
19:00<gbee>I must be more tired than I thought ;)
19:03<gbee>danielk22: thanks
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20:03<gbee>I think the best solution would just to have MythListButtonItem store a string alongside the void pointer storage it has now, there are enough places, such as settings, where that would be useful
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---Logclosed Thu Jul 17 00:00:46 2008