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#mythtv IRC Logs for 2008-09-01

---Logopened Mon Sep 01 00:00:01 2008
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01:42<JohnDesigner>Hi, I'm new to mythTV and am wondering if there is a list of recognized XML commands (correct term?) somewhere?
01:43<JohnDesigner>I'm new to xml editing also so thus far have been just seeing existing theme-centric .xml files
01:44<JohnDesigner>to glean the process and available "commands". Such as font control types.
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02:45<laga>edannenbe: wie läuft's denn mit eurem neuen frontend?
02:45<laga>edannenbe: how's your new frontend coming along?
02:58<edannenbe>laga, sadly its on ice atm :(
02:59<edannenbe>hopefully end of the year we can continue on it
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03:46<justinh>JohnDesigner: there's no definitive list of theme xml syntax anywhere but the stuff in the official wiki will take you through some of it. Not that it matters especially since a lot is going to change soon if it hasn't already
03:51<justinh>what hasn't been converted to the new mythui libraries already limits you to the kind of screen layout you can have and how the user interface works. That would be the reason why all mythtv themes up to now have pretty much all looked the same (graphics aside of course)
03:51<JohnDesigner>justinh: I see, thanks. the wiki docs did get me rolling.
03:51<JohnDesigner>do you know when the new version will be released? anyday now?
03:52<justinh>there's no plan to get 0.22 out of the door yet as far as I know. It'll be ready when it's deemed ready
03:53<JohnDesigner>just curious, will the new libs allow for more 'freeform' layouts?
03:53<justinh>JohnDesigner: there'll be much more freedom than there is now, that is for sure
03:54<JohnDesigner>wrt the xml syntax, is there a system file or such that can be cracked open to view the allowed terms?
03:56<justinh>only the source code. the grand plan is to write much more documentation about the new UI stuff this time around
03:56<justinh>work on that has started & is visible at
03:58<justinh>I've just started to get my head around some of the new features. I plan to help with the documentation - whether I actually get around to it or not is another matter
03:59<JohnDesigner>Thats great to hear and thanks for the help.
03:59<justinh>are you planning to make new themes?
04:01<JohnDesigner>getting my feet wet on one now. Its to run on a proof-of-concept box that a Co. called Neuros is developing
04:02<JohnDesigner>justinh: I take it you have and are making themes?
04:09<laga>hum, #5608 might a be good idea for -fixes (if it's a sane patch)
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04:29<stuarta>morning all
04:30<stuarta>gbee: seen your comments regarding MHEG mem leaks, and recording all streams even tho set to tv only
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05:00<justinh>JohnDesigner: yeah I've uh... done a few themes ;)
05:00<justinh>morning stuarta
05:01<justinh>my thoughts strangely wandered off onto bringing audio feedback to the UI on the drive to work this morning. I have to try & stop that
05:02<stuarta>ah distractions
05:04<gbee>iamlindoro: it's not QT after all but just a problem with the way we share images in mythui, we're working on a fix
05:08<gbee>iamlindoro: since the small image and the large image are the same copy in memory, after it's been scaled down and back up again you end up with nasty scaling artifacts
05:09<justinh>wondered how long it'd be before Neuros started playing with mythtv :)
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05:12<gbee>well we weren't exactly subtle at LRL to that Neuros rep, "Yes, well it's nice and all ... but does it run MythTV?"
05:12<justinh>heheh true
05:13*stuarta tries to work out what he's missed re Neuros
05:13<justinh>stuarta: the Neuros guy was on the table opposite ours at LRL
05:13<justinh>cute ickle black box
05:13<stuarta>my memory is rubbish
05:14<stuarta>so does it run on it yet?
05:14<justinh>unless they've managed to make the database stuff embedded, I doubt it
05:16<stuarta>i did notice the other day that the performance on the OSX frontend is crap on head vs 0.21-fixes
05:17<stuarta>mainly getting started on watching a recording
05:17<stuarta>so that's really remote frontend network performance
05:18<justinh>my frontend takes long enough to start playing a recording as it is, even having commented out the ATSC & CC font preparation
05:18<justinh>that's very low on my list though, tracking that issue
05:18<gbee>really need to get those font fixes in
05:19<justinh>clearing those out has pretty much halved the playback start time though
05:19<justinh>if not better than that, even
05:20<justinh>make my database could do with a tidy up
05:20<gbee>who was working on that, sphery or GreyFoxx?
05:21<justinh>GreyFoxx IIRC
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05:29<justinh>just thought... JohnDesigner will be bringing new meaning to the phrase 'osd theme' :P
05:30<JohnDesigner>nice 1 :)
05:30<justinh>oh btw.. are there any reserved words which can't be used in the naming of things like fonts & containers?
05:30<justinh>I've never run into a problem, but that doesn't mean there aren't any ;)
05:32<JohnDesigner>not sure myself. I'm new to xml and themes, so just try to stick to changing what is there :P
05:32<justinh>I'm doing some cleaning up in one of my osd themes. there were 12 fonts doing the job of 3
05:34<JohnDesigner>I hear ya. The original OSD (the device) gui had 8 to begin with.
05:34<JohnDesigner>eventually was down to one font and only about 5 sizes
05:35<JohnDesigner>justinh: so you know of Neuros and the OSD?
05:35<justinh>gbee: is your OSD the only one which currently uses a base res other than 640x480? I think I might get around to doing something about that in the core themes
05:36<justinh>JohnDesigner: yeah, there was the usual hype in the IT press & we ran into a guy at LugRadioLive last year opposite our stand
05:36<gbee>justinh: mepo might have taken advantage, but yeah, it's the only one that I know of
05:36*justinh wonders if there's any mileage in making em 1920x1080
05:37<justinh>... then realises he couldn't test it at that res. doh
05:37<JohnDesigner>justinh: oh sure, lugradio. I know Joe Born (CEO, geek) goes there yearly so it was probably him.
05:38<gbee>justinh: well 1280x800 looks perfect to me at 1920x1080, but maybe there is some value in making it native res
05:39<justinh>I need to get a tuner for my laptop I think
05:41<justinh>actually, Dagmar had a brilliant idea ages ago. He was messing with his LCARS theme in inkscape & pondered parsing the xml of the final SVG into a myth XML file
05:41<justinh>once you get over the origins being different it might not be too bad
05:41<stuarta>mmm, funky
05:41<gbee>justinh: there aren't any reserved words except those which are used in the code for specific widgets on that screen
05:42<justinh>gbee: cool, ta
05:42<gbee>justinh: that would save me a huge amount of time
05:42<justinh>gbee: and me, now I'm using inkscape throughout :)
05:44<justinh>we could have SVG templates & scripticles in the absence of a full-blown UI editor app
05:59<justinh>oh bugger. last channel tuned was BBC THREE
06:04<justinh>update cardinput set startchan=1 where startchan=7; should fix that
06:07<gbee>BBC Three is a problem, why>
06:07<stuarta>doesn't run at this time of day
06:08<stuarta>he could have just typed in a new channel number
06:08<gbee>yup, shouldn't prevent channel changing
06:08<gbee>either directly or through the guide
06:09<justinh>frontend hung, so nothing I could do
06:10<justinh>probably been fixed by now - running -fixes on that machine
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06:31<justinh>qt go byebyes now :)
06:33<justinh>bleugh firefox's on the fly image scaling is as bad as photoshop's
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06:38<gbee>doesn't seem too bad here
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07:06<justinh>uk peeps just FYI found a Hauppauge USB dvb-t tuner for under a fiver @ pc world. reserve & collect online :) No idea what exact model it is but it's worth a punt
07:07<justinh>description says "0914" but that doesn't match anything I can find
07:09<justinh>oh bum. it's a stick aerial
07:09<stuarta>i thought you could plug an external aerial into those?
07:09<justinh>no, it's actually not a 'USB TV TUNER' it's a stick aerial. damn pc world lameness
07:10<stuarta>wtf would anyone want one of those?
07:11<justinh>I might've known the product picture was right & the description was wrong. derrrrr
07:13<justinh>good job I haven't paid for anything :)
07:16<stuarta>the often get it the other way around
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07:30<gbee>new version of CoreAVC released, if the ffmpeg merge happens soon it's probably irrelevant
07:34<gbee>Anduin: when you get time I'd like to discuss the mythvideo port
07:47<janneg>gbee: the ffmpeg sync is almost ready, I should probably send an email
07:49<gbee>fantastic :)
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10:50<iamlindoro>gbee, I see what you're saying about why the pixellation happens-- any way around it? This is the appearance after scrolling through the menu five times:
10:50<iamlindoro>as opposed to how it should look,
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10:51<iamlindoro>Amusingly, I'd still vote for the pixellated mass of goo ver the current president
10:52<gbee>iamlindoro: best fix right now would be to implement the planned image cache/handling code, I've got patches for that but they still need work
10:53<gbee>I could hack together a short term fix, might be slightly slower but it would at least bridge the gap
10:54<iamlindoro>well, no need to go out of your way, was just curious if there was something I could do on my end
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10:54<gbee>I'll look at that tonight, short term fix could be pretty simple (reload the image from disk if scaling up)
10:54<gbee>iamlindoro: unfortunately not
10:54<x-X-x>do i need a capture card to use myth tv ?
10:54<iamlindoro>ok, no worries, thanks gbee
10:54<gbee>btw, which screen are you experimenting with, mythgallery?
10:54<gbee>x-X-x: #mythtv-users
10:54<iamlindoro>gbee, It's MythTube
10:55<iamlindoro>just wrapping my head around concepts little by little
10:57<iamlindoro>and a long weekend here so I have a bit more time, patience and rest to tackle it :)
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11:12<iamlindoro>So this may be a dumb question... I can get the share directory with GetShareDir()... is there a comparable function to get the MythVideo directory?
11:14<gbee>probably not, each plugin handles it differently, until we have storage group support for this sort of thing there won't be any consistent method
11:14<gbee>which directory, configuration or storage?
11:19<gbee>from within mythvideo, or another plugin?
11:21<iamlindoro>another (just goofing around w/ MythTube)
11:21<iamlindoro>I suppose if I were to learn how to query the DB This would be simple
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11:34<Anduin>iamlindoro: the GetVideoDirs() function from mythvideo/videoutils.cpp could be copied
11:35<Anduin>gbee: I've been doing summer things with my free time so haven't been following what you've been doing, but I'm around
11:36<iamlindoro>Anduin, cool, thanks, I'll look at that
11:36<Anduin>though I did finally email the Freevo people about their IMDB route to success (they just asked), and am trying that again
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11:46<Anduin>I have a number of ugly scripts for testing large collections I should clean up and check in to the mythvideo test directory it looks like.
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11:51<gbee>Anduin: I suppose I could direct the questions to any regular mythvideo users, mostly I want to know whether I'm free to remove what I see as unneccesary info from pages and how the navigation behaviour should work - e.g. the old gallery, when you selected a film took you to the 'selected' page first - should other screens work like that?
11:54<gbee>since you now have the option to switch between flat and filebrowse modes in each screen (from the menu) I'm wondering if the last state should be preserved and whether it should be per-screen, or all screens
11:55<justinh>gbee: I think I'd prefer an 'info' button to see the whole details screen rather than the pre-playing screen
12:03<Anduin>gbee: To me the selected screen only makes sense for gallery, other views should show enough information that a selected screen would just be annoying (I mostly use gallery mode and most of the time the selected screen just irritates me by adding another click)
12:05<Anduin>I can't think of what unnecessary things there are on the menus, some reorganization would be good though.
12:08<Anduin>As for the browse/DB views, I have no real opinion, I had been thinking of eliminating the DB only view, making it a last resort when file scanning doesn't work.
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12:13<gbee>I've already re-organised the menus a little as part of adding the additional options - e.g. the ability to manage videos, do searches and trigger a rescan from every screen
12:14<Anduin>gbee: What are you planning to eliminate?
12:14<gbee>but it might still be improved
12:15<Anduin>Yeah, I can understand, the video manager menu was a mess, moving things from there everywhere would make a mess
12:15<gbee>Anduin: well bits of information from certain pages, e.g. the list view shows the filename and player command, both seem a little geeky and although they make sense on the manager screen, they don't seem to serve any purpose in the list view
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12:15<gbee>the space could be better used to show stuff like director info, longer descriptions and that sort of thing
12:16<deebus>has anyone experienced random problems with watching live tv?
12:16<Anduin>gbee: Sure, but what is shows is up to the theme creator, we just have geeky theme creators
12:16<justinh>you mean those are _optional_ ?! :-O
12:16<deebus>I choose the "watch live tv" option, and the menu flickers for a brief second, and then nothing happens; I'm still at the main menu
12:16<deebus>anyone know why that would happen?
12:16<justinh>deebus: #mythtv-users
12:17<deebus>aw crap. sorry guys
12:17<gbee>sure :) I'm just looking at the default theme right now, individual themers will be free to do whatever they like but since most are pretty lazy and just copy the defaults I thought we'd set an example
12:17<justinh>if I'd known those were optional, I'd have boinked them out ages ago. I hate those fields
12:17<gbee>on every screen you've got the option of including any bit of metadata you want as a themer
12:18<justinh>being able to view cast info would be great .. that kind of stuff
12:19<gbee>at least in the ported version, I'm not sure how true that was before I started since I just hit 'Delete' a lot without paying much attention
12:19<justinh>thing is, there wasn't any documentation so all I did was blindly follow others. I could've looked in the source, of course...
12:19<Anduin>gbee: Yeah, I'm fine with changing it, I may end up replacing it with some other page that will show all data. With the internal player being used often the player command is less important (and often easy to see)
12:20<gbee>justinh: you can launch a cast popup from the menu and yes, you have the option of cast information on the actual page
12:20<justinh>not from the gallery page though IIRC
12:20<Anduin>and yes, all those test areas are optional, one of the things I did when I made them all consistent
12:20<gbee>justinh: well you do now ;)
12:20<Anduin>er text
12:21<justinh>maybe I already knew that but I'd forgotten ;)
12:22<gbee>ok, I'll replace it with what I think is more useful/interesting information like production year, director, cast, category and rating
12:23<Anduin>Yeah, you couldn't view the cast information from the selected page, but INFO in the gallery screen does let you (currently)
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12:25<gbee>I'm sure you'll want to tweak things once you get ahold of the ported version
12:29<Anduin>Nope, looks good to me :)
12:32<gbee>just fixing some little things, might be ready to merge back tomorrow, anyone want to take a look first before I do that?
12:33<Anduin>Yeah, I'll do it soonish
12:34<gbee>need to sort out the default modes for each screen, flat vs non-flat etc
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15:01<Dispader>So, if I had myself a MythTV-related utility, any suggestions on where to house it in a source repository.
15:02<laga>in contrib/ in trunk?
15:04<Dispader>In MythTV itself? I doubt that they'll allow me commit just for that. Am I thinking about that wrong?
15:04<laga>you can open a ticket
15:05<Dispader>Could do... I don't think I want the code in the tree yet, though.
15:05<Dispader>I'm having to refactor the first version to move closer to the new Apache Commons CLI from the old one.
15:06<Dispader>Doesn't really seem like something that should be in the contrib tree quite yet.
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15:08<Dispader>Could put it in a local CVS repository, I suppose.
15:08<Dispader>laga: Happy Labor Day, by the way.
15:08<laga>"happy labor day" sounds like the rest of the world is going to have a day off
15:09*Dispader laughs softly.
15:10*gbee demands his day!
15:10<laga>i've had a long weekend, so i don't mind
15:11*Dispader nods.
15:20<srwalter>has anyone done work to get a slingbox to work in mythtv?
15:21<justinh>srwalter: wrong channel
15:22<srwalter>oh; I assumed that it would be a development issue; are you implying that code has already been written to work with a slingbox?
15:23<justinh>no we're implying you're asking in the wrong channel
15:25<srwalter>this is the mythtv development channel, no?
15:26<laga>no, it's the users channel
15:26<laga>go to #mythtv-users for the devel channel
15:26*laga hopes reverse psychology will work ;)
15:26<justinh>yes it is. for people who actually do development work, to talk about actual development work :)
15:27<srwalter>okay. I'm trying to add slingbox support to mythtv. do you know of anyone else who is working or interested in working on same?
15:28<justinh>no idea. good luck decyphering all their propriatary crap
15:28<srwalter>there's already a FOSS plugin for vlc to watch the stream
15:28<srwalter>can setup the video parameters and change channels; I figure that's enough for at least basic operation as a mythtv "tuner"
15:28<justinh>for those who just can't live with good quality video :)
15:29<srwalter>if there were a better way to get Dish HD into myth, I'd like to hear it
15:29<justinh>hauppauge HD-PVR
15:29<srwalter>has component in?
15:30<justinh>ask in the other channel. talk about being sticklers for that
15:30<srwalter>*roll eyes*
15:31<Dispader>justin: Wait a minute... the HD-PVR actually works for DishNetwork signals?
15:31<Dispader>(Now look who's not talking dev in dev.)
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15:32<srwalter>looks like it would do the same as the slingbox; record HD and use an IR blaster to control the STB
15:33<srwalter>(but the higher cost gets you higher res)
15:35<srwalter>if you have a Dish box with component out, why not?
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15:41<justinh>gbee: looks like base font inheritance is a little bit meh in the osd code
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15:41<gbee>justinh: won't inherit from normal themes, or you mean within an OSD theme?
15:42<justinh>defined a new one <font name="greyfont" base="mainfont"> <color>yadayada</color></font> & it wasn't inheriting the size
15:43<justinh>btw yeah I mean within the osd theme
15:43<gbee>oh well, it'll get fixed when it's converted to mythui, until then I guess inherited fonts in the OSD are out
15:43<justinh>seems to be ok in places but maybe I've been lucky
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16:02<justinh>speaking of which laga ... one more container to go on the OSD & I'm done
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16:03<iamlindoro>justinh, Is your OSD a custom jobbie for mythbuntu?
16:03<justinh>nah. glass-wide
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16:05<justinh>I do have a custom job coming up, full of ideas for it. what I dont relish is making it in 4:3 & 16:9
16:05<iamlindoro>I fixed Mythtube's xml for overscan safe in the 4:3 mode... no idea if it's right though as I odn't own a 4:3 screen
16:05<justinh>I mean.. who cares about 4:3 ? ;)
16:06<iamlindoro>Thus the -wide-onlyness of my current baby theme
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17:19<justinh>"These are great for young couples about to get seperated going to uni"... no, that isn't an advert for a gross of condoms. Skype phones. Bleugh
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17:50<gbee>heh, I'm making a complete hash of this parental level checking stuff
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18:24<GreyFoxx>Gbee: You around ?
18:24<GreyFoxx>I was looking at the new mythvideo stuff last night and ran into a couple of problems
18:24<GreyFoxx>In the Video list if you are navigating the tree you can't got More than 3 levels deep.
18:25<GreyFoxx>For example I have TV/StarTrek/Enterprise/Season4
18:25<GreyFoxx>and I couldn't get Past "Enterprise"
18:25<GreyFoxx>And in Video Gallery the bottom of the videocovers on the bottom row is cut off
18:25<gbee>heh, didn't test more than three levels ... ok I'll take a look
18:26<GreyFoxx>I haven't tested the scanning and such yet, but I've got > 4k videos to try it on :)
18:26<GreyFoxx>Had to revert before the wife strung me up hehe
18:28<gbee>haven't changed much with the scanning, it should still work - it's now a QThread though, I just had to be sure that the progress update events were getting sent/handled with reasonable speed and I've now done that
18:29<gbee>just getting the parental level stuff working again, but it's like tugging on a loose thread and I'm just going to end up completely re-writing it :(
18:29<GreyFoxx>Oh, one other thing I saw. I have video list set to browse the filesystem
18:30<gbee>yeah, known issue - haven't implemented the defaults for the browse modes and flat view stuff
18:30<GreyFoxx>Ok. I exited the video list but the new dir didn't show up until I restarted mfe hehe
18:30<gbee>one of those little things that I said I needed to finish off
18:31<GreyFoxx>Cool, just wanted to make sure something didn't change that I needed to update on my end :)
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18:33<GreyFoxx> that's what I see on the gallery screen. The bottom half of the bottom row is cut off.... but later it "reappears" and remains on the screen, even when I switch directories and move aorund heh
18:34<GreyFoxx>The parental stuff is something I've never had to deal with thankfully
18:35<GreyFoxx>if I have something I really want hidden, I'll just move it in and out of the video dir as needed heh
18:36<gbee>heh, so at some point I accidently removed the tree depth stuff which lets you descend the tree beyond what the UI can show on screen - in this case three levels
18:37<gbee>GreyFoxx: gallery bug looks nasty, but again I didn't test with a full page of stuff, so I'm guessing it's just a theme issue
18:37<gbee>we also clearly need a -wide theme :)
18:38<GreyFoxx>I'm using mythcenter-wide right now. I was gonna try using the copy of metallurguy I have but it complained about missing elements and wouldn't load the video gallery
18:40<GreyFoxx>Hehe that mythtv sidebar thing is kinda neat :)
18:45<gbee>I've not updated metallurgy for the mythui version yet, mythcenter-wide doesn't define it's own version of video-ui.xml, so it uses the default theme copy
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18:48<GreyFoxx>Man, tomorrow is gonna suck at work
18:48<GreyFoxx>I've been on Vacation, and intentionally unreachable
18:48<GreyFoxx>and I can see they had 3 MASSIVE , and completely seperate outages
18:52<gbee>obviously you are indispensable, time to ask for a raise ;)
18:52<GreyFoxx>1 wireless tower taken out from lightning, 1 fibre router failure, and 1 hacked webserver
18:53<GreyFoxx>I really really pitty the oncall guy
18:54<GreyFoxx>A raise would be niceheh
18:56<gbee>of course convincing your boss that the wireless tower would never have been struck by lightening on your watch could be difficult
18:56<GreyFoxx>None of them are really anyone's "fault", but he's gonna go overboard with the fact that he had hard times getting ahold of someone to fix them all :)
18:57<GreyFoxx>but I was on vacation, and out of the province and he knew it, so he can kiss my rear :)
18:57<gbee>right, nearly done with this tree fix
19:04<gbee>noticed another new bug, probably revealed by the fixes I committed earlier ... not sure if I should fix that first
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19:14<gbee>GreyFoxx: it will have to wait until tomorrow, the fix just revealed another bug which is more serious (causes crashes)
19:16<GreyFoxx>no worries, I;ll try it out then :)
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20:43<thebishop>i know this is a little off topic, but where do you guys find advanced function codes for remote controls?
20:44<iamlindoro>By off-topic do you mean "user talk in the dev channel?"
20:45<iamlindoro>(which is to say, see the topic)
20:45<thebishop>blah! you're absolutely right
20:45<thebishop>(maybe #mythtv-dev should be the dev channel)
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23:42<pembo13>anyone has mythtv working in Fedora 9?
23:43<pembo13>i seem to not be able to get it workign with PulseAudio, i have mythtv-frontend-0.21-192
23:44<hads>pembo13: You want #mythtv-users - as in the topic.
23:44<pembo13>hads: sorry, forgot that is the correct channel
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---Logclosed Tue Sep 02 00:00:45 2008