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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-05-11

---Logopened Fri May 11 00:00:13 2007
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01:35<Rubidium>peterbrett: `make VERBOSE:=1`
01:35<peterbrett>Rubidium: Thanks
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01:36<peterbrett>Rubidium: (probably the longest delay between Q & A I've seen on IRC
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05:40<TrueBrain> <- for who ever is interested in 32bpp and it's current status (it is more ment for the developers)
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05:51<Thomas[NL]>interesting read
05:53<TrueBrain> <- I still love my head-to-head idea :)
05:54<TrueBrain>(2 identical lands, 2 players, and they can only build on their piece of land; show who is best :))
05:54<peter1138>heh, cool
05:54<peter1138>is that possible? :p
05:54<peter1138>i think it is...
05:54<TrueBrain>peter1138: this is a played game
05:54<TrueBrain>by 2 humans
05:54<Thomas[NL]>does not look like a mockup :/
05:54<TrueBrain>so yes, it is possible
05:55<peter1138>what about the black line? ;p
05:55<TrueBrain>seperation between the two lands
05:55<TrueBrain>revision 6176 :p
05:55<peter1138>that is seriously cool
05:55<TrueBrain>I once made it as proof-of-concept that OpenTTD could contain coopetition games
05:56<TrueBrain>if you don't do anything, towns and industry do exactly the same
05:57<TrueBrain>patch is pretty clean and small
05:57<TrueBrain>it just misses to switch between head-to-head and normal game :)
05:58<TrueBrain>27 Aug 2006
05:58<Thomas[NL]>a Demo Recording patch :o
05:59<TrueBrain>yeah, work of several years by now, by either me or Darkvater (it went from me to him back to me)
05:59<TrueBrain>works pretty well
06:00<TrueBrain>I love archives :)
06:01<TrueBrain> <- so pretty, oh so pretty!! :)
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06:09<TrueBrain>(load it in OpenTTD, you will like it :))
06:10<boekabart>so it IS for public usage? :)
06:10<TrueBrain>no, it is a test map
06:10<TrueBrain>but even test maps you can test
06:10<TrueBrain>as that is what the name suggest: a test :p
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06:26<peter1138>ahh, the well known sea locked netherlands
06:27<TrueBrain>grrr, stupid xbox... it demands WMP11 in order to stream videos.. the linux alternatives all fail
06:27<TrueBrain>and WMP11 you can't run in wine, as it wants to do validation of your windows install
06:27<TrueBrain>fuck windows
06:29<boekabart>or, encode H.246
06:29<TrueBrain>and how would that help?
06:29<boekabart>or H.264, those codes are easier to find :)
06:29<boekabart>it plays those too, right?
06:29<TrueBrain>to play something, you need to get the file there
06:29<TrueBrain>to get a file there, you need to use 'Windows Media Connect' compatible device
06:29<TrueBrain>which is WMP11
06:29<TrueBrain>which only works on Windows
06:30<TrueBrain>and the alternatives for linux so far, fail
06:30<boekabart>or usb mass storage ;|
06:30<TrueBrain>Yeah, okay, point for you, but that sucks even more
06:30<TrueBrain>the encoding really isn't any problem
06:30<TrueBrain>getting the file there is
06:30<boekabart>that 'alternative to MCE' whats it called, it doesn't exist for nix?
06:31<TrueBrain>Windows Media Connect, which you need, uses upnp
06:31<TrueBrain>which is available for linux of course
06:31<TrueBrain>but WMC needs very specific folders and containers
06:31<TrueBrain>which they seem to change at random over time...
06:35<boekabart>I meant TVersity Media Server
06:35<boekabart>isn't that opensource somehow
06:35<boekabart>neh, isn't
06:36<boekabart>how closed is WMC... that no-one has been able to figure it out for a year and a half now
06:36<boekabart>in the nix comm.
06:39<TrueBrain>even Twonky Media blabla seems to fail to give movies....
06:39<TrueBrain>music does work
06:39<TrueBrain>movies are only not detected
06:39<TrueBrain>(even not wmvs)
06:39[~]TrueBrain slaps Microsoft
06:39<TrueBrain>anyway, OpenTTD.... :)
06:40<boekabart>anyway, 32bpp
06:40<boekabart>is there somehow a 'log' of the discussion you mentioned?
06:41<TrueBrain>the summarize is very accurate
06:42<peter1138>yeah, that blog post ;)
06:42<boekabart>well i'm interested in the parts you (who?) did and did not like, actually
06:42<TrueBrain>the blog post tells you :)
06:42<TrueBrain>really, there is nothing more
06:43<boekabart>"First of all, code-wise it uses quick-and-dirty things from time to time, which need to be replaces with more clean code. Also you see a lot of test-alike code, and the replacement of one static-system with an other (zoom-levels for example). On the other hand it has many many things that are very good and should go into trunk anyway."
06:43<boekabart>and the comes 'second'
06:44<boekabart>I agree that the blog post is a good summary... but those details are (though irrelevant to most) relevant to me
06:44<TrueBrain>you mean code-wise? If you read the diff, you will understand :)
06:45<TrueBrain>really, boekabart, you can't get more detail then the blog. There is nothing more.
06:45<boekabart>i know the diff pretty well; I've ported my oooold 32bpp functions (gradient, bitmap overlay) to it
06:45<TrueBrain>then you also know that code-wise it is a bit off from time to time
06:45<TrueBrain>things like: this should really be removed
06:45<TrueBrain>what more is there to say
06:47<boekabart>ok maybe i'm more interested in which 'approaches' you find OK
06:48<Thomas[NL]>what developers also have a blog?
06:48<TrueBrain>Thomas[NL]: I believe I am the only one currently trying to set one up
06:48<TrueBrain>to centralize things a bit more
06:48<TrueBrain>my hope is other developers start posting in that blog too ;)
06:49<TrueBrain>boekabart: as said: the way of tar handling needs some kind of index-system, zooming in should not go that far, and the rest is pretty much okay I believe. Oh, color remap isn't.
06:50<boekabart>that was the info I was looking for! thanks.
06:50<TrueBrain>That very much is in the blog...
06:52<Thomas[NL]>where did you find those Japanese images?
06:52<TrueBrain>peter1138 had them
06:52<Thomas[NL]>Is it ttd?
06:52<TrueBrain>ask peter1138 :)
06:53<peter1138>it's freetrain
06:53<peter1138>han gon
06:54<peter1138>(and there is athanasios complaining the graphics look shit and are too small, lol)
06:55<Thomas[NL]>looks more like pixelart not a game
06:56<peter1138>basically the argument we've got is not whether these are better or worse, just that you don't need very very large tile sizes to have lots of detail
06:56<boekabart>i like those ground tiles :)
06:57<peter1138>i love the airport on that page :)
06:57<Thomas[NL]>the graphs are way to clean
06:57<peter1138>it's just a different style
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06:58<boekabart>ok that is one freakislhy big image
06:58<boekabart>they should use google maps for it :)
06:59<boekabart>i love the idea of 45 degrees roads, how come no-one ever thought of that for openttd ... :S
07:00<boekabart>found the airport. bottom left
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07:01<boekabart>well that game (or mockup) has more realistic scaling it seems
07:03<boekabart>TrueBrain: the color remap was actually the thing I wondered the most about
07:03<Thomas[NL]>Freetrain looks better
07:04<TrueBrain>now it is time to play C&C3 on my xbox :)
07:11<waxman>truebrain, c&c3 on xbox.. i would miss my mouse and keyboard...
07:12<boekabart>and pc :)
07:28<TrueBrain>you do indeed miss that, but they did a nice job
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07:54<peter1138>boekabart: loads of people thought of 45' roads, that's not the same as implementing ;)
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07:59<boekabart>peter1138: you missed the irony... ;)
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08:09<Brianetta>davis paged me on my server wthout any explanation
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08:58<DorpsGek>TrueBrain: Error: I need to be opped to op someone.
08:59|-|mode/#openttd [+o DorpsGek] by Belugas
08:59|-|mode/#openttd [+o TrueBrain] by DorpsGek
09:00|-|[TrueBrain] changed the topic of #openttd: 0.5.1 | Website: * (DevBlog: blog, Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, WIKI: wiki, SVN mailinglist: maillist, Dev-docs: docs, Bug-reports: bugs) | #openttd.notice for FS + SVN notices
09:00|-|mode/#openttd [-o TrueBrain] by DorpsGek
09:00[~]TrueBrain pets DorpsGek
09:03<boekabart>TrueBrain: Maybe you could teach DorpsGek to set the topic
09:04<TrueBrain>boekabart: why?
09:04<TrueBrain>not like it is changing often or anything
09:04<boekabart>so you can tell him to @topic
09:04<TrueBrain>and what should it do then?
09:04<boekabart>instead of asking him to op you
09:04<TrueBrain>oh, that
09:04<boekabart>the pre-set topic you tteach him :)
09:04<TrueBrain>#openttd topics aren't pre-set
09:04<TrueBrain>in this case I needed to add a subdomain
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09:04<TrueBrain>welcome Rexxars
09:04<Rexxars>many thanks!
09:05<Rexxars>first time I've been welcomed
09:05<TrueBrain>And, do you like it?
09:05<Rexxars>I must say, I do.
09:05<@Belugas>Ok.. WELCOME Rexxars!!
09:05<@Belugas>second time
09:05<boekabart>TrueBrain is in a very good mood because he just got to pet his bot.
09:05<TrueBrain>too late
09:05<TrueBrain>too little
09:05<Rexxars>I feel so.. loved! :D
09:05<Rexxars>how do you pet a bot?
09:05<boekabart>show him!
09:05[~]TrueBrain pets DorpsGek
09:06<Rexxars>oh god.. a virtual petting!
09:06<boekabart>now let's try this
09:06[~]boekabart pets TrueBrain
09:06<TrueBrain>@kick boekabart
09:06|-|boekabart kicked [#openttd] DorpsGek [TrueBrain]
09:06<TrueBrain>he had thatone coming :)
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09:06[~]TrueBrain hugs boekabart
09:07<boekabart>oh come on, we were just having some "it's weekend" fun!
09:07[~]boekabart rubs his ass..
09:07<boekabart>(not TrueBrains ass!!)
09:07<boekabart>(before i get kicked again)
09:08<Rexxars>how is SVN compared to 0.5.1? many new features?
09:08<TrueBrain>Rexxars: euh, yes :p
09:08<Rexxars>been like two months since I played OTTD :/
09:08<TrueBrain>Rexxars: check roadmap of 0.6 on wiki, shows most of the big new things
09:09<Rexxars>oh its nearly all done, that's impressive
09:09<TrueBrain>doesn't mean a lot
09:09<TrueBrain>but okay
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09:11[~]boekabart hugs Purno welcome
09:11<Purno>eh... well... ehm...
09:12<Purno>thanks I guess
09:12<TrueBrain>we do not hug dutch people boekabart
09:12<TrueBrain>a general rule
09:12<Purno>I do
09:12<Purno>I do hug dutch people
09:12<Purno>females, mainly
09:12<TrueBrain>But we are all not really female
09:12<Purno>not really?
09:12<TrueBrain>some claim to be
09:12<TrueBrain>but I have my doubts :p
09:12[~]boekabart IS dutch...
09:13<TrueBrain>boekabart: my point exactly!
09:13<boekabart>aren't you too?
09:13<TrueBrain>I know a few words: sletje
09:14<TrueBrain>haha :) Okay, let's get back ontopic...
09:15<boekabart>so, you want to talk about 0.5.1!?
09:16<TrueBrain>nah, that is in the past
09:16<TrueBrain>more about :p
09:16<boekabart>It's a good idea I think
09:17<TrueBrain>I tend to think so too yes ;)
09:17<TrueBrain>bah, I hate DNS cache
09:17<boekabart>but should it be 1 blog where all the devs write....
09:17<boekabart>or 1 blog per dev
09:17<boekabart>I tend to prefer the first
09:17<TrueBrain>check the page :)
09:18<boekabart>Implies 'all devs', but you're the only one writing
09:18<TrueBrain>read the latest post
09:18<TrueBrain>check the date
09:18<TrueBrain>do the math
09:18<boekabart>just did
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09:45<Eddi|zuHause3>that really huge screenshot thingie from earlier has some buildings "borrowed" from sc2000, i think
09:45<Eddi|zuHause3>some details are nice
09:45<Eddi|zuHause3>like the two level bridge (road/rail)
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09:50<Ailure>[16:45] <Eddi|zuHause3> that really huge screenshot thingie from earlier has some buildings "borrowed" from sc2000, i think
09:50<Ailure>I forgot where, but I rememer seeing a uhm
09:50<Eddi|zuHause3>i first recognised the water tower
09:50<Ailure>aircraft control tower
09:50<Ailure>from Simcity2000
09:51<Eddi|zuHause3>then a parking lot and a stadium
09:51<Eddi|zuHause3>and several appartment buildings
09:51<Ailure>it looked rather ugly too
09:51<Ailure>as the author blew it up to 2x it's size
09:51<Ailure>this tower infact
09:51<Ailure>someone had it in his avatar
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10:13<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r9826 /branches/noai/config.lib: [NoAI] -Fix r9821: in bash '==' is disliked, use '='
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12:08|-|mode/#openttd [-o DorpsGek] by ChanServ
12:09<DorpsGek>TrueBrain: Error: I need to be opped to op someone.
12:09<glx>Belugas: :)
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12:19<Zr40>can't ChanServ help?
12:20<TrueBrain>not yet
12:21|-|mode/#openttd [+o DorpsGek] by Belugas
12:22<TrueBrain>tnx Belugas :)
12:22<@Belugas>my pleasure
12:27[~]Sacro waits...
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12:28[~]Rubidium waits...
12:28|-|mode/#openttd [+o Rubidium] by DorpsGek
12:29|-|mode/#openttd [-o Rubidium] by DorpsGek
12:30[~]peter1138 waits...
12:30<Rubidium>@op peter1138
12:30|-|mode/#openttd [+o peter1138] by DorpsGek
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13:35[~]peter1138 ponders airdrag in tunnels
13:39<Phazorx>peter1138: that'w why they try to have paired tunnels, saves a lot of power
13:40<Sacro>peter1138: good idea
13:41<Sacro>hylje: thats a nice tunnel
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13:44<@peter1138>iirc ttdpatch doubles the airdrag in a tunnel, or something
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13:53<Eddi|zuHause3>that's why they try to reduce air pressure in tunnels :)
13:54<Eddi|zuHause3>but you need special trains to run in "vacuum" tunnels
14:01<Phazorx>or just have another one next to it with air chafts
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14:21<@peter1138>shafts :)
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14:23<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9827 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Codechange/Fix: [NewGRF] Text strings of 1 character are perfectly valid... (fixes dbsetxl refits again...)
14:24<@peter1138>i wonder what it breaks again... never mind
14:29|-|mode/#openttd [+o orudge] by ChanServ
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14:49<Wolf01>:( there's somebody who knows well how autorails code works?
14:50<@peter1138>my et-87 goes 111 mph with no speed limit
14:59<@peter1138>boooo, overflows ;(
14:59<@peter1138>what's wrong with 761600 hp? :/
15:02<boekabart>since when is bridges-over-45 deg-rails in trunk?
15:03<hylje>some thousand revs
15:03<glx>a long time ago
15:03<@peter1138>one of the first things after the 0.5 branch
15:03<boekabart>as in a year
15:05<glx>@openttd log 7573
15:05<glx>!openttd commit 7573
15:05<_42_>Commit by celestar :: r7573 /trunk/ (39 files in 5 dirs) (2006-12-27 12:38:02 UTC)
15:05<_42_>-Merged the bridge branch. Allows to build bridges of arbitrary rail/road combinations (including signals)
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15:07<@peter1138>hmm, high speed requires a lot of power...
15:08<@peter1138>2000t, 230000hp, 7300kN max te
15:08<@peter1138>max speed... 416 mph
15:09<lolman>Is that taking air resistance and friction with rails into account?
15:09<lolman>Wow, one hefty engine needed for that
15:09<@peter1138>supplied force 901 kN, resistive forces, 899 kN
15:09<@peter1138>um, 24 actually ;)
15:09<lolman>I figured
15:09<hylje>how long is this train
15:10<@peter1138>12 tiles ;p
15:10<glx>hehe of course it needs a lot of power ;)
15:11<lolman>Bah brb
15:11<@peter1138>max speed should be 143 mph with this engine
15:11<@peter1138>those poor bearings...
15:12<@peter1138>i turned off realistic acceleration, and it went way faster
15:13<@peter1138>doing 685 mph atm
15:13<@peter1138>hm, weird
15:13<@peter1138>resistive forces are lower :/
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15:14<@peter1138>must be an overflow somewhere there
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15:17[~]peter1138 tries to remember why he was playing with this...
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15:48<mikegrb>multiple engines make a train handle hills better?
15:50<@peter1138>yes, more power
15:52<mikegrb>k thought so
15:53<mikegrb>I think this engine type just sucks ;)
15:54<mikegrb>doess splitting them between back and front make a difference?
15:55<glx>visually only
15:56<mikegrb>the 32bpp stuff looks awesome, can't wait
15:58<hylje>what is 32bpp around now?
16:01<@peter1138>around 4 times larger than 8 bpp!
16:01<Sleepie>lol :)
16:03<hylje>alpha channel
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16:06<Ailure>I must be some kind of train layout nazi
16:06<Ailure>even if it's in the sandbox
16:06<Ailure>I have the urge of replacing that picture
16:07<Ailure>such sharp turn D:
16:07<@peter1138>nothing wrong with that
16:08[~]hylje changes that to a 90 turn
16:10<Ailure>even worse xD
16:10<Ailure>when I ran a server
16:10<Ailure>I got people complaining that I disallowed 90 degree turns
16:11<elmex>really great when you join a server, get a nice coal mine, build up your first line, and then later, when you hauled your first coal someone steps in, builds another station and leeches your mine. and says:
16:11<elmex>"I was building tracks even before you joined!"
16:11<Ailure>I hate when people complain about that
16:11<Ailure>I see it as fair competition
16:12<elmex>ah, getting in each others way is fair competition?
16:12<Ailure>Depends in what way
16:12<Ailure>Blocking someone from building stuff
16:12<Ailure>on purpose
16:12<Ailure>is not fair :P
16:12|-|Tron_ changed nick to Tron
16:13<Ailure>Picking up cargo from the same industry as someone else is fair though
16:13<elmex>he is blocking me on purpose from building stuff :-) he is killing my money source so i can't build
16:13<Ailure>You get less money
16:13<Ailure>but from the mpression I get, you're hardly getting killed
16:14<Ailure>just concentrate on improving ratings to compete someone fairly
16:14<Ailure>you get more cargo than him then
16:14<elmex>how to improve ratings on a coal mine?
16:14<Ailure>Explains the factors involved in station ratings
16:15<Sleepie>oh no ;)
16:16<Ailure>Now you're just mocking me :p
16:16<hylje>i didnt make the rail extend all over the image
16:16<Ailure>Imagine a train going 500 km/h on that track
16:17<Ailure>which probably would be possible with the old acceleration algorithm and with maglev trains
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16:19<Ailure>of course
16:19<Ailure>with TTD logic
16:19[~]peter1138 throws Ailure's brain out of his ears
16:19<hylje>his brain was in the ears?
16:19<hylje>oh wait, furry
16:20<Ailure>passengers would no longer be passengers after a ride on a typical TTD maglev :p
16:20<hylje>well take a concorde
16:20<hylje>deaccelerates pretty fast
16:20<Ailure>there was a funny bug
16:20<Ailure>with a airport that as fixed now
16:21<hylje>funny? in my airport?
16:21<Ailure>which for some reason didn't slow down concordes at 2000 km/h
16:21<Ailure>so a concorde would go from 2000 km/h to 50 km/h in a single 'tick'
16:22<@peter1138>it still doesn't
16:25<@peter1138>ah, the default one works ok, mostly
16:25<@peter1138>the concorde in av8 touches down at 850 mph
16:25<@peter1138>and is doing 550 mph at the end of the runway
16:26<Ailure>the conrode in AV8
16:26<Ailure>used to not slow down with some airports
16:26<Sleepie>isn't that a kind of cheating ;)
16:26<@peter1138>sometimes it used to stop at the start of the runway
16:26<Ailure>Breaking the laws of physics
16:26<@peter1138>then taxi the length of it at 31mph...
16:27<hylje>harrier oncorde
16:31<@peter1138>that would be something...
16:32<hylje>quick someone make it
16:32<hylje>copter concorde
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16:40<@peter1138>quiet :/
16:41<peterbrett>peter1138: indeed
16:41<boekabart>wOOt, 2 peters
16:41<Eddi|zuHause3>we have too many peters around here
16:42<XeryusTC>yes, let shoot a random one
16:42<boekabart>but not peter1138, he's too important
16:42[~]boekabart takes his nose out of peter1138s butt again
16:44<peterbrett>You can't ever have too many Peters. I don't know what you're talking about.
16:44<boekabart>isn't peter another word for.. err\
16:45<Eddi|zuHause3>not in a sensible language ;)
16:45<DaleStan>Rock? Indeed.
16:45<boekabart>in american english?
16:45<Eddi|zuHause3>i said sensible :pü
16:47<hylje>sensibility? in my ü?
16:48<Eddi|zuHause3>you're insane, i don't listen to you
16:48[~]peterbrett wants signal autocomplete in svn
16:49<boekabart>which is that? autocomplete until first switch?
16:49<hylje>you can read my lines though
16:49<peterbrett>boekabart: yes
16:49<Eddi|zuHause3>actually, the plan is to make multiple signals per line unnecessary
16:49<peterbrett>Eddi|zuHause3: how?
16:50<boekabart>yeh, wanted that too
16:50<Eddi|zuHause3>there was something about virtual signals, but the plan was not very far developed last time i checked :)
16:51<peterbrett>The problem is that the effective block section length varies depending on what the piece of track is for
16:51<peterbrett>peter1138: Yeah, what's the status of that?#
16:51<@peter1138>who knows
16:51<Eddi|zuHause3>that's the same plan :)
16:53<peterbrett>Anyway, I'm off
16:53<peterbrett>night everyone
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16:53<@peter1138>oh good he's gone
16:55<Sleepie>someone had shoot him probably? ;P
17:03<Thomas[NL]> yay news about newindustries
17:05<Ailure>hmm a devoloper blog
17:06<Thomas[NL]>'s secret
17:06<Ailure>"During that cleaning process, some nice bugs appeared, showing how interesting that feature will be, like temperate sawmill cutting trees around itself, exactly like the tropical lumber mill."
17:07<Ailure>I remember that someone thought it was a new feature in openTTD xD
17:07<Thomas[NL]>It happened to me and didn't know if it was a bug or a feature :)
17:08<Thomas[NL]>but it looks stupid a square of bare land around the sawmill -.-
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17:13<glx>[00:06:30] <Thomas[NL]>'s secret <-- it's in the topic ;)
17:14<Thomas[NL]>oh no, someone leaked
17:19<Thomas[NL]>good night all
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17:23<Ailure>" * Did you know that you can sell an entire train all at once by dragging the engine onto the dynamite icon? "
17:23<Ailure>I remember when it was a dynamiet icon
17:24<Ailure>Guess I just remove that tip altogether, since it kind of obvious in teh depot window now
17:28<@peter1138>i remember when i needed to go to sleep
17:28<Eddi|zuHause3>that must have been a long time ago :p
17:29<@peter1138>it's about now
17:29<Sleepie>bye then ;)
17:30<@peter1138>au revoir
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17:41<Sacro> this needs merging
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17:44<bencvt>merging? did i mess up the threads by renaming it?
17:45<bencvt>er, nm
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18:56[~]dihedral is going to hit the rack
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19:51<Ailure>no wonder why the channel seemed inactive
19:52<Ailure>I missed a half hour
19:52<Ailure>nothing happened during that time
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---Logclosed Sat May 12 00:00:47 2007