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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-05-28

---Logopened Mon May 28 00:00:20 2007
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00:18<Jerub>that just scares me.
00:19<Jerub>oh, that's ttdpatch only
00:19<Jerub>and requires pbs.
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00:20<Jerub>path based signalling
00:21<Jerub> is interesting too. Interesting use of the new bridge stuff.
00:21<Jerub>but would work on a normal track too with extended station entrance..
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01:51<mikk36>damn it's hot here... :/
01:52<mikk36>and it's still rising quickly
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02:27<mikk36>23 and rising :(
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02:57<Luukland>Purno, precies de goede :P
02:57<Luukland>die industrieset van jou, werkt ie ook bij openTTD?
02:57<Purno>ik heb geen industrieset gemaakt
02:59<Luukland>grmbl, your right, het is die van pikkabird -_-
02:59<Luukland>weet jij toevallig wel hoe ik newcargos en newindustries switches aan kan zetten binnen openTTD?
03:02<Purno>weet ik niet
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03:04<mikk36>could you guys please talk on english ?
03:05<Luukland>was just a chat between us :P
03:05<Luukland>i will translate it for you
03:06<Luukland>weet jij toevallig wel hoe ik newcargos en newindustries switches aan kan zetten binnen openTTD? <<<>>> Do you know how to put the switches newcargos and newindustries on in OpenTTD?
03:06<@peter1138>switches. lol
03:06<@peter1138>newcargos is always on
03:06<@peter1138>newindustries will be always on when it's finished
03:07<Luukland>hmm, according to the newgrf i use, it sais: newcargos and newindustries must be on
03:07<Luukland>and then it deactivates itself
03:07<@peter1138>well, ok, newcargos is always on the nightlies
03:07<@peter1138>but a grf error message may not distinguish between them
03:07<Luukland>i use nightly's :P
03:08<@peter1138>i.e. the grf may check for cargos, then check for industries, and then display the same error message for either
03:08<mikk36>newindustries is not in the nighlties yet, peter1138 ?
03:09<mikk36>then that error is understandable
03:11<mikk36>what's still mystery for you ?
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03:13<Luukland>nothing mikk36
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03:42<Frostregen>Rubidium: thx for fs#813... gave me quite a headache yesterday...thought i did something wrong (copy&paste)
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07:02<Jerub>that industry patch I've been playing with has been awesome
07:02<Noldo>which one?
07:02<Jerub>the entire game changes.
07:03<Jerub>it's suddenly no longer "I wonder how far I can carry coal"
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07:07<kaan>hello all
07:07<@peter1138>newindustries helps that
07:07<kaan>you sure?
07:07<kaan>I dont want to stop greeting you :)
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07:16<kaan>now thats a rare sight
07:16<kaan>ubuntu just asked me to reboot after an automatic softwareupdate
07:17<@Rubidium>then there must be some major kernel bug or so
07:17<kaan>it did get e new kernelimage :)
07:17<kaan>i better reboot then :P
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07:18<Sionide>give or take, it's the only time you'll need to reboot after an ubuntu update
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07:22<kaan>there, should be settled now :)
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07:42<Jerub>hm. need to report bugs to the author though.
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07:47[~]Tobin waves
07:47<redmonkey>why aren't you on freenode anymore?
07:47[~]Kjetil chops Tobins hand off. Keep your hands in the vehicle at all times
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07:48<Tobin>redmonkey: You mean why isn't the channel there anymore?
07:49<redmonkey>yes, thats what i meant :)
07:49<Tobin>There were lots of reliability problems, IIRC.
07:49<Tobin>Frequent netsplits and the like.
07:49<+glx>and spam
07:49<Kjetil>(and the now dead lilo was an idiot)
07:49<TrueBrain>there was nothing wrong with the reliability in fact
07:49<Tobin>I think the frequent lilo spam annoyed people too.
07:50<TrueBrain>it was perfectly okay
07:50<TrueBrain>it were the restrictions
07:50<Tobin>Kjetil: Yeah.
07:50<TrueBrain>no PM without registering......
07:50<TrueBrain>shit like that
07:50<TrueBrain>nobody wants an IRC Network where you are limited in your freedom
07:50<redmonkey>oh okay.. i hope you'll have more luck on this server here
07:50<TrueBrain>so far it works just fine :)
07:51<+glx>we had a "little" problem when they upgraded services, but that's all
07:51<TrueBrain>everyone is allowed to make mistakes from time to time :)
07:51<+glx>but they are very reactive
07:52<TrueBrain>you can say that again :)
07:52<TrueBrain>it took them, what, 2 minutes? :p
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07:53<+glx>TrueBrain: I'm not talking about the 'disconnection' but the little bug you found
07:54<TrueBrain>glx: I Was talking about that too :)
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08:09<XeryusTC><TrueBrain> nobody wants an IRC Network where you are limited in your freedom <- total anarchy ftw!
08:13<Eddi|zuHause3>lack of restrictions != lack of rules
08:14<Eddi|zuHause3>rules ::= you can break them, but you have to live with the consequences
08:14<Eddi|zuHause3>restrictions ::= you cannot break them
08:14<Jerub>in my experience, everyone who remains after someone is banned is respectful of their lack of freedom.
08:17<Tobin>Jerub: It helps that people who get banned are usually annoying.
08:18<@peter1138>hmm, but bjarni's not banned yet
08:19<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah, that makes me wonder from time to time, too :)
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08:56<UndernotBuilder>can we rename DorpsGek to Wire so when we kick someone appears "jasperthecat1 has been kicked by Wire..." ?
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08:57<TheJosh>Hey all
08:57<TheJosh>long time no see
08:57<TheJosh>whats up (other then the sky, trams, and train groups)
08:58<hylje>err, nothing?
08:58<TheJosh>2 wicked features at practically the same time. 0.6 is going to be so awsome
08:59<redmonkey>is there a list of whats going to be new in version 0.6?
08:59<Sionide>TheJosh, two new zoom levels...?
08:59<kaan>yup, in the wiki somewhere
08:59<+glx>somewhere in the wiki
08:59<TheJosh>i was thinking of another feature the other day, havent started a patch yet. I was going to be 'clone quantities'. my only issue was i wanted to know if you can capture ctrl on a button click
08:59<redmonkey>ok, i'll check, thanks
08:59<@Rubidium>under 'development' to be a little more precise
08:59<UndernotBuilder>a question: can be added to town founding patch a option for random cities generation like industries?
09:00<TheJosh>Sionide: i know, how cool are they?
09:00<Sionide>TheJosh, very!
09:00<TheJosh>UndernotBuilder: you can generate random the scenario editor
09:00<TheJosh>random industries i mean
09:01<UndernotBuilder>but I mean ingame, so suddenly appears "A new town is being builded near [another town]
09:01<kaan>there it was
09:01<UndernotBuilder>so for 0.6.0 only lacks newindustries and bugfixes?
09:02<kaan>seems that way
09:02<TheJosh>UndernotBuilder: if that was to happen, i would put in a different patch.
09:02<UndernotBuilder>better so ;)
09:03<TheJosh>so we should all work on newindustries to get it done?
09:03<UndernotBuilder>the problem is where two people work on the same line, it should get conflicts
09:03<hylje>conflicts are what subversion is made to migitate
09:04<TheJosh>yeah i know. i made a cities patch about the same time as maethdros (i know i probs spelt his nick wrong)
09:04<UndernotBuilder>What means "Cargo translation table support" in the roadmap?
09:05<TheJosh>Should some of the minor features that have been added get listed there as well? such as the zoom levels, trams, and train groups?
09:07<UndernotBuilder>what happened to new map array? is it under development yet?
09:08<UndernotBuilder>so what's up with that?
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09:11<TheJosh>hey are there any plans for a specific grf to be used for trams in the future? one that comes stock-standard?
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09:13<kaan>i think that there is generally just hope that someone makes a trams set that supports company colors
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09:17<TheJosh>how hard is it to make a GRF? ill give it a shot
09:17<@Belugas>quite easier than what people imagine
09:17<kaan>I have no idea
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09:19<TheJosh>is there like a tool or something?
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09:20<+glx>text editor + pcx editor + grfcodec
09:21<@Belugas>the latter is REALLY needed!
09:21<@Belugas>like... KNOW it
09:22<TheJosh>the devs really look up to ttdp dont they
09:24<TheJosh>ill see if i can make a NewGRF (probably based on the bus one)
09:24[~]geoffk started to make a webgui tool for grfs
09:24<geoffk>i got nowhere with it yet thugh im still learnign basics of how they work
09:24<@Belugas>[10:21] <TheJosh> the devs really look up to ttdp dont they <--- what do you mean??
09:25<geoffk>all the useful info is on ttdpatch
09:25<TheJosh>Belugas: i keep seeing references to things ttdp do thats all.
09:25<TheJosh>doesnt bother me, they have some excellent ideas. and OpenTTD does some really cool stuff too.
09:26<TheJosh>the big bonus for OpenTTD is the fact that one day it could be an independent program, but TTDP could not
09:26<hylje>magic bridges
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09:27<hylje>vehicle cloning
09:27<geoffk>iiirc the plan is for openttd to be standalone by version 0.7
09:27<redmonkey>and OpenTTD is available for Unix and other operating systems
09:27<geoffk>possibly a coule of years off in dev yet
09:29<TheJosh>does anyone like the idea of a 'clone quantity' patch, where you can enter the number of times to clone a train/bus/truck/tram/ship/plane?
09:30<geoffk>could be useful on my longer bus routes
09:30<@Belugas>the goal of ttdp is not to be independant. And we decided to hook ourselves on their NFO-grf specs, since it adds a lot to the game. That is why.
09:30<TheJosh>so if your crazy like me and want to have 500 busses service 3 stations (see how much of a trafic jam you can get) it doesnt take you 15 mins to clone em all
09:30<TheJosh>Belugas: makes a lot of sence
09:30<@Belugas>and it means reading ASM in order to understand what they do :S
09:33<TheJosh>is it very hard to 'clone' a .grf into a NewGRF, thus to clone the bus grf to make trams (and then just add little electrical wires coming from the top)?
09:34<geoffk>i cloned a ford tmodel truxk with one of the sh trains wow did it run fast on rails
09:35[~]Hendikins growls at a town
09:35<Hendikins>I've bribed and serviced my way up to excellent, and they still won't let me remove a tile of road I want gone.
09:35<TheJosh>you almost need to have the 'standard' tram set as a GRF not a NewGRF (until everything else is a NewGRF)
09:36<TheJosh>meh im off to bed
09:36<TheJosh>cya all round
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09:43<Eddi|zuHause3><Hendikins> I've bribed and serviced my way up to excellent, and they still won't let me remove a tile of road I want gone. <- you have to enable a patch setting, or you will never be able to remove a road that is connected on both ends
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09:46<coronel>Anyone getting segmentation faults in 0.5.1 in network games?
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09:51<@peter1138>hmm, scrolling viewport
09:51<@peter1138>as in, smooth scrolling
09:51<@peter1138>now, should that be a patch option? ;p
09:52<elmex>coronel: yes
09:52<geoffk>coronel, not me im using the linux source
09:52<elmex>coronel: try 0.5.2-rc1
09:52<elmex>geoffk: i'm also using the source of 0.5.1,and it crashed once with a segfault
09:52<geoffk>i always run my network games on dedicated server
09:52<elmex>my dedicated 0.5.1 once crashed with segfault
09:53<geoffk>elmex, i was havign problems wiht it but i was having probs wtih everything on my system was something wrong with my OS install
09:53<geoffk>no slackware i tihnk it was all my fault though
09:53<hylje>redhat, whut?
09:53<elmex>ah, k
09:54<elmex>i've got the most weird segfault with redhat in my linux life
09:54<geoffk>basicaly i only burned the 1st disk and then pulled in the rest of the packages on the disks and did installpkg *.tgz
09:54<geoffk>and KDE was crashing nonstop specialy wiht games
09:54<geoffk>sig11 segfault
09:55<geoffk>whoch was on slackware 11.0, for now i've reverted to 10.2 which i had all the disks bured and done the install normaly ad now its problem solved
09:57<geoffk>i should of done a pxeboot/tftp install which i will try when i can be bothered im sure that will work, i dont liek burnig disks aymore produces loads of usless disks when they are outof date, i use a few distros for different things
09:58<Eddi|zuHause3>use rw disks, and archive the images on a hdd
09:58<geoffk>my dedicatated servers run on Xen virtual machines under debian
09:59<redmonkey>i hope that it's still possible to use the original graphics when you put the new graphics in.. in version 0.7+
09:59<geoffk>its one way, but i find cdrom in general is a poor technologfy, i got about 20 borken drives no loger work and disks break too easy
09:59<geoffk>cd's/cdrom's have been my biggest source of problems over many years
10:08<UndernotBuilder>for me it will be a simple bugfix
10:12<UndernotBuilder>!current revision
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10:27<geoffk>oo' sarco the day lenth patch man, i was messing wiht that last night til very late but im so useless and could't get it working
10:28<geoffk>i was reading its in the miniIN which i never used before was trying to figure it out but failed
10:30<geoffk>was 1st time i messed with diff and patch cmds handy stuff but i fear i was doing it all wrong somewhere
10:30<geoffk>would be very nice to see it make it into a full release its wha i wat badly
10:30<geoffk>what i want*
10:30<Eddi|zuHause3>two things about patches
10:31<Eddi|zuHause3>1) don't try to extract patches from the miniin, use the original (trunk) versions that are usually to find on the forums
10:31<geoffk>just 2 :0
10:31<geoffk>im not sure how that works tbh
10:32<Eddi|zuHause3>2) make sure to use a current version of the patch, you might need some heavy wizardry to update them beyond key versions like the makefile rewrite and cpp port
10:32<geoffk>im not familiar with openttd dev and im not a good coder
10:32<geoffk>i noticed a lot of the lines i needed to edit weren't in my files, i tried patching 0.5.1 and messing wiht the nightly
10:33<geoffk>i may have to just be patient for now and wait for it to get ito a release
10:33<geoffk>its got me looking and learnig though which is a good thing
10:33<Eddi|zuHause3>the diff file usually includes the revision number of the patch
10:34<Eddi|zuHause3>and the diff name usually hints to the branch it was based on
10:34<geoffk>i see i'll keep that in mind
10:34<geoffk>i mgiht have anther look at it later
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10:35<Sacro>geoffk: if you press tab when typing my nick it will autocomplete
10:35<Eddi|zuHause3>0.5 branch and trunk have very big differences, a diff that applies to one will almost certainly not apply to the other
10:35<Sacro>then i get a highlight telling me someone's talking to me
10:36<geoffk>Sacro, ah i thought if i typed it you get same i notice i used a lowercase
10:36<Sacro>geoffk: you misspelt it
10:36<UndernotBuilder>can we rename DorpsGek to Wire so when we kick someone appears "jasperthecat1 has been kicked by Wire..." ?
10:36<geoffk>oops ah yeah so i did sorry
10:36<Sacro>call him peer :p
10:36<geoffk>i been reading you name as sarco for days
10:37<geoffk>i nede to learn o read properly
10:37<geoffk>and then how to type
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10:44<redmonkey>why doesnt chris sawyer release the grafphic and data files under the GPL? does he have a special reason?
10:45<geoffk>redmonkey, its probably not upto him
10:45<TrueBrain> <- let us know what you think!
10:45<geoffk>depends who the publisher was
10:45<geoffk>iirc he didnt make the graphics personaly
10:46<Sacro>10,000 aint much fun
10:46<Sacro>its 10480
10:46<Sacro>no thats not right
10:46<Sacro>TrueBrain: indeed!
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10:46<lolman>Was about to say
10:46<TrueBrain>but, for a moment assume something is going to happen
10:46<TrueBrain>what would you think it would be?
10:46<TrueBrain>please do post replies :)
10:47<Sacro>mmm, maybe the secret branch
10:47<Sacro>:O NEW MINI-IN
10:47<lolman>If only :o
10:47<TrueBrain>the winner will get a cookie from me :)
10:47<redmonkey>TT without the original graphics wouldn't be the same anymore. i hope it'll be always possible to use the original graphics in further OpenTTD versions
10:47<Sacro> is crosspostedf
10:47<geoffk>redmonkey, yeah i hope they say although i fear they may evetualy become redundant if it becomes standalone
10:48<Sacro>with this
10:48<geoffk>playing online anyway, because others will have to have the original graphics tpp
10:50<Eddi|zuHause3><TrueBrain> the winner will get a cookie from me :) <- says the person who has full control over what will happen :p
10:51<TrueBrain>:) :) :) :)
10:51<TrueBrain>I love having power :)
10:53<Sacro>actually, i wouldn't be surprised if we get half a dozen commits all together
10:53<TrueBrain>it wouldn't really suprise me either, I dunno if all devs are collecting their commits or not
10:53<TrueBrain>they won't tell me :(
10:54<TrueBrain>( I don't think they trust me)
10:54<Sacro>TrueBrain: you are shifty
10:55<Sacro>untrustworthey :P
10:55<TrueBrain>Yeah, I know :)
10:56<TrueBrain>power can do strange things with people
10:56<TrueBrain>@deop peter1138
10:56|-|mode/#openttd [-o peter1138] by DorpsGek
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10:57|-|mode/#openttd [+o peter1138] by Belugas
10:57<@Belugas>yup :)
10:58<@Belugas>pouett pouett!
10:59<TrueBrain>#I would dance, I would sing, to be mad, for my King
11:00<Sacro>what have you lot been smoking?
11:00<TrueBrain>my gf is away for several days now already, and I just miss her
11:00<kaan>salmon mostly
11:00<TrueBrain>what else did you expect? :)
11:00<Sacro>maybe bacon
11:00<Sacro>or cheese
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11:01[~]TrueBrain hugs Belugas
11:02<TrueBrain>you guys are boring :(
11:06<@Belugas>maybe because some of us a re WORKING!
11:06[~]TrueBrain hugs Belugas
11:06[~]Belugas gives back the hug ;)
11:07<TrueBrain>:) :)
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11:09<Eddi|zuHause3>working? it is a holiday here...
11:09<TrueBrain>LEAVE! ALL LEAVE! :(
11:10<@Belugas>we do not have the same holidays as you ...
11:11<@Belugas>i would like to be on holiday
11:11<@Belugas>#Let me take you far away
11:11<@Belugas>#You'd like
11:11<@Belugas>#A Holiidaaaaaaaaaaaaaay
11:11<TrueBrain>wow, installing WebGUI is.... complex!
11:15<TrueBrain>I am glad to read I am not the only one loosing it in here
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11:16<TrueBrain>welcome Vikthor
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11:54<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9962 /trunk/src/ (10 files in 2 dirs): -Feature: Add smooth viewport scrolling. This must be enabled with patch setting 'smooth_scroll'
11:54<Wolf01>i just red the topic about this feature
11:56<@peter1138>i hope i got the speed about right, heh
11:57<@peter1138>it's very smooth with fast forward on (like many things)
11:58<Wolf01>now i want to try to make a new feature: random title screen position in the map every 10s
11:59<@peter1138>someone tried that before
11:59<@peter1138>luca iirc
11:59<hylje>smooth scroll in practice?
12:00<hylje>i mean, what does it do
12:01<@peter1138>if you click on the location/eye button in things it takes you there 'slowly'
12:02<Wolf01>yeah, i like it :D
12:02<@peter1138>and from the viewport
12:03<@peter1138>also affects scrolling with keys, heh
12:03<Wolf01>now, can you make a smooth zoom? maybe with motionblur effect? XD
12:03<@peter1138>hmm, cursor key scrolling is actually nice now...
12:04<hylje>Wolf01: pixel shaders would involve opengl rendering
12:04<@peter1138>ah poo, some stuff ignores the patch setting :p
12:05<Frostregen>yep...minimap clicking
12:05<@peter1138>and keyboard scrolling
12:07<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9963 /trunk/src/viewport.cpp: -Fix (r9962): 'smooth_scroll' patch setting was ignored (always on) in some places.
12:10<@peter1138>heh, turning it off shows another 'flaw'
12:10<@peter1138>in that it doesn't end up in exactly the right place
12:10<@peter1138>(it's with 8 pixels)
12:11<Frostregen>yes ;)
12:12<@peter1138>a similar problem exists for vehicle max speeds ;(
12:12<@peter1138>i'm not going to cry over it, heh
12:15<@peter1138>another problem... le sigh :/
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12:25<XeryusTC><hylje> Wolf01: pixel shaders would involve opengl rendering <- motion blur doesnt need pixel shaders
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12:32<Wolf01>oooooook i got it to work :D
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12:33<XeryusTC>Wolf01: motion blur?
12:33<Wolf01>no, the random position
12:34<Wolf01>now i only need to randomise the coords every 2 days or something like it
12:35<hylje>you mean we could have a scrolling title screen?
12:37<Eddi|zuHause3>Wolf01: i strongly suggest making the interval configurable
12:38<XeryusTC>Wolf01: can you come up with a new savegame too then?
12:38<XeryusTC>well, title screen
12:38<Eddi|zuHause3>english spelling totally confuses me sometimes
12:38<XeryusTC>the current one only has some vehicles around one town
12:38<Wolf01>i know
12:39<Wolf01>now i must set the random interval in the map size
12:39<Wolf01>and maybe a random zoom
12:43<hylje>zomg does smooth scroll do on teh fly zooming too?
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12:46<Eddi|zuHause3>probably not :)
12:47<Wolf01>is there a counter i can use to use as delay somewhere?
12:47<Eddi|zuHause3>delay for what?
12:47<XeryusTC>current tick % some number :P
12:47<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah, modulo-operator :)
12:48<Wolf01>yeah, how is called "curren tick" in the game?
12:48<XeryusTC>oh, that scroll is nice
12:48<XeryusTC>Wolf01: _current_tick?
12:48<XeryusTC>this is quite RCT like
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12:48<XeryusTC>Wolf01: not sure ;)
12:52<Wolf01>there are some different around the code
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12:56<Wolf01>ok, i got the map moving really fast and around the same 10 tiles, but is a start :D
12:58<@peter1138>iirc the other patch used signs to determine where to go
13:01<XeryusTC>peter1138! enhanced tunnels!
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13:23<@peter1138>changes it a bit
13:24<@peter1138>important bit is viewport clamping
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13:43<Wolf01> i need a little help to set the coordinates for the scroll :P
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13:43<Wolf01>maybe i misunderstood the function i used for the random
13:45<@peter1138>no, you misunderstood scrollpos_x/y units
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13:49<Wolf01>oh, now i understand... maybe MapSizeX/Y return tiles
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13:52<@peter1138>you could use ScrollMainWindowToTile(tileindex)
13:55<Wolf01>good, thank you :)
13:56<Wolf01>i didn't wanted to use this function because i thought MapSize was in pixels
14:01<Wolf01>is really good with your smooth scroll patch
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14:04<Luukland>Heya, All, if i get an error on the "stable" TTDopen where can i report that one?
14:05<@peter1138>first find out what 'TTDopen' is
14:05<Luukland>openTTD of course >_<
14:06<Luukland>i have the error report right here
14:06<Luukland>could i email it?
14:06<@peter1138>it's either on there already, or should be put on there
14:07<Luukland>Showing tasks 1 - 20 of 132 0_0
14:08<Luukland>so i should look through 132 "bugs" ?
14:08<@Rubidium>no, cause 90 of them are user made patches/feature requests
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14:09<@Rubidium>furthermore if you tell what the bug actually is, we might know whether it's on the list (or has been on the list)
14:09<@Belugas>or maybe not a bug after all...
14:10<Luukland>well TTD crashes :P
14:10<@Belugas>infinite reasons why.
14:10<staniel>Luukland: thats not the bug, thats the effect of a bug.
14:10<@Belugas>tell us exactly what happens:
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14:10<@Rubidium>let me guess, you just deleted a bridge with a vehicle (partly) on it
14:10<Luukland>I have the error report right here, when i use the question mark on a tunnel of OpenTTD, OpenTTD crashes :)
14:11<Luukland>it is in multyplayer
14:11<thgergo>building a tram-rail crossing end us an unremoveble crossing, even i used magic dynamite...
14:11<Luukland>openTTD 0.5.1
14:11<Luukland>Reason: !invalid string id 0 in GetString
14:11<Luukland>Exception C0000005 at 0042217E
14:11<Luukland>(and a lot more information)
14:12<Luukland>if you want to look for yourselve: openTTD multyplayer, server: Micro World, use the question mark, on the long road tunnel
14:12<Luukland>then OpenTTd shuttes down :)
14:12<Luukland>(and gives a crash report)
14:12<Luukland>clear enough Belugas?
14:13<Luukland>Rubidium? do you need more specific information?
14:15<Luukland>:D great :D
14:15<Luukland>do i have to report this somewhere else?
14:16<@Belugas>could you test with 0.5.2 rc1?
14:16<@Belugas>MAYBE it has been fixed...
14:16<@Belugas>not sure, though
14:16<Luukland>well, it is not compitable with the version of the server Micro World
14:16<Luukland>so i cannot join the server
14:16<Luukland>in SP i have never had the "bug"
14:17<Ailure>ok I think I asked tihs before
14:17<Ailure>but I ask it again before I do a bug report
14:17<Ailure>is road supposed to be free to demolish now? :p
14:20<Luukland>no idea, but once in the old ages, i preferred to receive money if I demolished: Trees, Road and Bridges :P
14:22<Luukland>Rubidium, may i have your email? Then I can send you the "error" report
14:23<Luukland>or would you like it being send by forum pm?
14:24<Luukland>Sended to your forum inbox
14:25<Luukland>good luck fixing!!
14:25<Luukland>Luukland out!!
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14:26<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r9964 /trunk/src/road_cmd.cpp: -Fix: removing of road should not be free of charge.
14:28<@Rubidium>too bad there is no server called "micro world"
14:35<@Bjarni>nice idea for a server on a 64x64 map
14:35<@Bjarni>could be toyland... playing your own weird world :p
14:37<@Rubidium>"on the long road tunnel".. I can only find 2 short ones...
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14:41<@peter1138>Rubidium: rt? :D
14:41<Ailure>I figure that was the answer on my question
14:45<Wolf01>where is the drawing code for the "OPENTTD" string of the title screen?
14:46<hylje>change it to "LOL"
14:47<@Bjarni>he can't
14:47<@Bjarni>L is missing from the huge font
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14:47<@Bjarni>or maybe not
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14:48<@Bjarni>I think the TTD grf contains the letters for "TRANSPORT TYCOON DELUXE", so L should be there
14:48<vofflan>can i get some help with setting up a dedicated server from someone? ;)
14:48<@Bjarni>hi vofflan
14:48<Wolf01>i need only to redraw it more often, because now the viewport moves and the letters disappear :D
14:49<XeryusTC>vofflan: take a look at
14:49<XeryusTC>that might help you
14:49<vofflan>i have written -d in the shortcut and id like to know if the server always have to start the normal ttd
14:49<vofflan>i just want the dos window
14:50<XeryusTC>use -D
14:50<XeryusTC>-d = debug, -D = dedicated
14:50<@Bjarni>Wolf01: we touch that piece of code so rarely so whenever somebody asks where it's drawn, everybody has forgotten where it is :p
14:50<@peter1138>it's a big list
14:51<@Bjarni>ln-: I knew that you had political views
14:51<@peter1138>you can see "Transport tycoon deluxe" is commented out ;p
14:51<XeryusTC>ln-: that is somewhat disturbing
14:52<@peter1138>Wolf01: main_gui.cpp:2290
14:53<Wolf01>and i saw it about 10000 times when i made the transparency gui!
14:54<Eddi|zuHause3>i so loathe google maps...
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14:54<Eddi|zuHause3>it still does not work with konqueror
14:55<@Bjarni>Eddi|zuHause3: try firefox
14:55<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah, but it's not trivial
14:56<@Bjarni>it's your own computer, right?
14:56<@Bjarni>appget install firefox (or something)
14:56<Eddi|zuHause3>konqueror has a context menu entry "open in firefox", but that will only reopen the page telling me it's not compatible :p
14:57<Eddi|zuHause3>so i have to open firefox from somewhere else, and copy-paste the url
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14:59<Eddi|zuHause3>where exactly is this? i have seen such a building before, but i am not sure if it is the same
15:00<ln->looks like california.
15:01<@peter1138>"32bpp graphics in trunk"
15:01<@peter1138>we have 32bpp graphics in trunk...
15:01<hylje>wasnt it dead?
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15:05<Wolf01>uhm, i don't have idea how to fix that "string"
15:06<Eddi|zuHause3>btw. in germany they recently found a stretch of forest, where they grew trees in the shape of a swastika for over 50 years
15:06<Eddi|zuHause3>you can't see it from the ground
15:06<Eddi|zuHause3>but you see it from a plane
15:06<@peter1138>Wolf01, i think it's magic
15:06<staniel>clear cut! haha
15:07<Eddi|zuHause3>i think they cut down the trees, but that did not really solve the problem ;)
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15:09<@Bjarni>Eddi|zuHause3: I have seen pictures of it. It was only visible during the spring when the trees didn't grow leaves at the same time so some of them were light green and some where dark green
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15:10<@Bjarni>they thought that they had to cut down all the trees when it was discovered
15:10<@Bjarni>what a waste of wood
15:10<hylje>what a cunning plan
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15:12<@Bjarni>when you plant a tree, the idea is to let it grow for like 200 years
15:12<@Bjarni>they spoiled the whole idea of tree planting
15:12<@Bjarni>morons :p
15:13<Eddi|zuHause3>that's the big problem with forests, the person who plants it has absolutely no benefit from it
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15:14<@Bjarni>the idea is to plant a forest and people will benefit from it years from now
15:15<@Bjarni>you will benefit from the work they did years ago
15:15<staniel>technically we all benefit the second they plant it
15:15<Eddi|zuHause3>have you ever seen politicians planning beyond the next election? :p
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15:15<ln->well one politician planned up to 1000 years ahead, but that's a different story...
15:16<@Bjarni>I have never seen politicians plan forest planting. They hire some guys to do it and those guys don't care about politics
15:16<Eddi|zuHause3>right, and that was exactly when he planned the next election to be
15:16<@Bjarni>and he planned that in the meantime he should ban all other parties, right?
15:17<Eddi|zuHause3>actually, he did have an election in 1937, 4 years after he got appointed to chancellor, but by then he had abolished all other political parties :p
15:17<Viktho1>An wasnt he by coincedence Austrian?
15:17<Eddi|zuHause3>and 4 years later, there was war, no time for elections
15:18<Eddi|zuHause3>hm, you can see my house on google maps :)
15:19<Eddi|zuHause3>you wish... :p
15:21<@Bjarni><EddizuHause3> and 4 years later, there was war, no time for elections <-- that is the Roman way of thinking. Their law said that a single person (later called caesar) should rule during war and democratic process was for peacetime. One caesar figured out that if he started a new war before the current one ended, he would still be supreme ruler. After that the Roman empire was at war at all times, usually as far away from Rome as
15:21<@Bjarni>making Caesar supreme ruler without the problem with enemies nearby
15:22<hylje>politics, hurray
15:22<@Bjarni>no laws about electing new ones or anything
15:22<hylje>just as planned?
15:23<@peter1138>good ol' caesar
15:25<staniel>err holy history lesson
15:25<Eddi|zuHause3>inspiration for many :p
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15:31<@Bjarni> <-- isn't that kind of sexist?
15:31<@Bjarni>I mean what if somebody decided to make OpenTTD for women?
15:32<@Bjarni>I wouldn't reject female developers
15:32<@Bjarni>but they reject male developers
15:32<@peter1138>that's already
15:32<@peter1138>that's alright
15:32<@peter1138>just have a sex change
15:33|-|Tobin [] has joined #openttd
15:33<@Bjarni>now that's a fucked up thing to do
15:33<staniel>I thought that was just like, a support group for women
15:33<@Bjarni>but still
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15:34<Wolf01> i don't know how to fix the "OPENTTD" and how to apply the settings without restart the game, but i think is ok
15:34<staniel>I could be wrong though
15:34<staniel>debian I htink has a thing for women as well...
15:34<@Bjarni>"I can't log in", "go away. We don't reply to men". (New person): "I can't log in", "that's serious. We better help you right away".... talk about equal rights :p
15:35<Eddi|zuHause3>how do they get proof that you are a woman?
15:35<staniel>Bjarni: true, but every group has its discriminatory 'laws'
15:35<@Bjarni><staniel> debian I htink has a thing for women as well... <-- are you indicating that males has to be interested in open source to have a thing for women???
15:35<staniel>Bjarni: lol no, im saying they have a group similar to what kde has lol
15:36<staniel>I got a thing for woman, but mines ignoring me atm :(
15:36<@peter1138>so bjarni did you have any ideas on that autoreplace bug yet?
15:36<@Bjarni>peter1138: yeah. Still working on it. It's not trivial :s
15:37<@Bjarni>yet I have a feeling the result will look trivial :p
15:37<Eddi|zuHause3>that's always the case with programming :p
15:37<Eddi|zuHause3>in the end it always looks like "just a few lines of code"
15:38<@peter1138>if only bjarni's unifications were 'just a few lines of code'...
15:38<@Bjarni>I once worked all night and the next day my teammates were like "we worked all night and you show up with 15 lines of code" :(
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15:39<@Bjarni>luckily they figured out that it was not just a few lines of code, but actually some clever shortcut to optimise performance while doing the task correctly
15:40<@Bjarni>and nobody ever found any bugs in it :)
15:40<Eddi|zuHause3>10 good lines of code can be way better than 100 bad lines of code
15:41<staniel>where I used to work, we had functions that were hundreds of lines long
15:42<@Bjarni>which makes them so long that it can be tricky to get the big picture
15:42<staniel>mainly cause they wanted to support different vendors, and all had their own standard
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15:44<Eddi|zuHause3>functions should fit on one screen
15:44<eekee>yeah they should
15:45[~]eekee gets grumpy about big functions lol
15:45<@Rubidium>damn... then I need to reduce either the font size of buy an even larger monitor ;)
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15:46<eekee>ere, I've got a newgrf / multiplayer problem with r9963
15:46<@Bjarni>Rubidium: I was about to say that :/
15:46<Eddi|zuHause3>it's a very rough measurement :)
15:46<staniel>Rubidium: haha yeah, right
15:46<staniel>I believe the quote there is "we can't afford monitors, but if you work xxxx amount of overtime hours for nothing, we'll get you new monitors"
15:47<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r9965 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Fix: the ownership of drive through road stops on town owned roads wasn't properly reset when the road stop was removed.
15:47<eekee>eh, not that. It's a connecting to server issue
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15:48<eekee>I've got this newgrf loaded & it plays in single-player. the server's got the same one loaded & is running fine (but without anyone connected)
15:48<eekee>I connect, and I quit with openttd saying it can't find the grf
15:50<@peter1138>different version probably
15:50<Eddi|zuHause3>maybe it's because it is the same file? one program might have a lock on it, so the other can't access?
15:50<eekee>Eddi|zuHause3: ah, nuh, server's in Australia, I'm in the UK ;)
15:50<Eddi|zuHause3>dos vs. windows version?
15:51<eekee>it's the same grf file, same version. Both I and the server are using Windows grfs
15:51[~]Hendikins puts his feet up on the server
15:51<Eddi|zuHause3>well, if it says it's different, it is most likely different :p
15:51<eekee>my friend's playing on the server machine, I should probably call it the host
15:51<@Rubidium>eekee: you are just connecting via the in-game gui and you have downloaded the map already?
15:52<Hendikins>eekee: No, the server machine is dedicated, but I've got a client hanging off it.
15:52<eekee>Rubidium: yes and no, it quits just after the password message
15:52<eekee>Hendikins: ah!
15:53<Hendikins>Server is Linux/x86_64 r9963, client I'm playing with is Linux/i686 r9963, both stock.
15:53<Hendikins>+ newgrf
15:54<eekee>Mine's Linux/i686 r9963
15:54<eekee>no changes apart from this one grf
15:54<eekee>Hendikins: do you do a make install? I didn't
15:55<@Rubidium>hmm, in that case the GRF checking was already passed twice, so it fails to open the GRF when loading the game (for some strange reason)
15:55<Eddi|zuHause3>and you can confirm that the md5sums of those files are the same?
15:55|-|Desolator [Desolator@] has quit [Quit: Leaving IRC]
15:55<eekee>Eddi|zuHause3: why md5? diff does a byte-by-byte comparison
15:55<@peter1138>cos the game uses md5sums ;)
15:56<Eddi|zuHause3>ottd just checks the md5 :)
15:56<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause3: those md5 sums ARE the same, otherwise it couldn't get into the password requesting phase
15:56<eekee>Hendikins: do youbuild the game in the source tree? I didn't (I made a fresh directory & did ../trunk/configure)
15:56<@peter1138>if it's quitting
15:56<Hendikins>I do.
15:56<Eddi|zuHause3>fine, i am not able to help beyond this point anyway :)
15:56<@peter1138>i guess you're seeing "NewGR file is missing '...'"
15:57<eekee>wonder if it needs anything more from the source tree... I already had to copy some dirs from trunk/bin
15:57|-|Luukland [] has joined #openttd
15:57<eekee>Error: NewGRF file is missing 'srvttw.grf'
15:57<eekee>openttd: /home/ethan/ottd/trunk/src/openttd.cpp:104: void error(const char*, ...): Assertion `0' failed.
15:57<@peter1138>although generally people find it incredibly hard to write what an error message says verbatim...
15:58<Luukland>peter1138? Would you linke to have a copy of the fatal error OTTD 0.5.1?
15:58<@peter1138>Luukland: i said the first time,
15:58<Luukland>i know
15:59<Luukland>it is not in there?!
15:59<@peter1138>THEN PUT IT THERE
15:59<Luukland>I do not know how :)
15:59[~]eekee grumbles lightly & does cp -a trunk/ 9963/ & rebuilds
16:00<@Rubidium>Luukland: we already know the cause of that bug and your savegame is basically screwed (though it can be fixed)
16:01<Luukland>:S Savegame?
16:01<Luukland>it is no savegame :P
16:01<Luukland>it is a multyplayer game
16:01<Eddi|zuHause3>all games are savegames
16:01<@Rubidium>and can you give the full name of the server next time....
16:01<Eddi|zuHause3>even scenarios are savegames
16:02<Luukland>Rubidium hmmm, one moment
16:02<Luukland>the server is still online
16:02<Luukland>and i just got the error again
16:02<@Rubidium>by clicking on that tunnel, right?
16:02<@Rubidium>just remove the tunnel and build a new one
16:03<@Rubidium>it's caused because something didn't go well when the company that build that tunnel went bankrupt
16:03<Luukland>correct :)
16:03<Luukland>Rubidium if i demolish it
16:03<Luukland>it triggers the error
16:03<Luukland>so i can't
16:04<@Rubidium>hmm, that's true...
16:04<@Rubidium>just don't touch the tunnel in that case ;)
16:04<Luukland>^^, but it lays in the way :P
16:04<Luukland>i want to build railroad there ;p
16:05<@peter1138>well, tough, i guess
16:05[~]Hendikins decides that he's had enough fun playing with trams, and starts building stuff that makes real money :P
16:05<@peter1138>tunnel under it
16:05<eekee>would resetcompanies (or whatever the command is) help
16:05<Luukland>i am not the server owner nor the one with acces :P
16:05<Eddi|zuHause3>then you have not a lot of choices left :p
16:06<Eddi|zuHause3>gaaah, that is bad grammar :p
16:06<Luukland>server name: ! Micro World
16:06<Luukland>everyone can see for itselve now
16:06<Luukland>i will put a sign there :P
16:07<@Rubidium>Luukland: guess what, it's gone...
16:07<Luukland>i see
16:07<Luukland>wtf, how did you do that ^^
16:07<@Rubidium>knowledge of the cause of the bug...
16:08<Luukland>but how did you got it gone?
16:08<Luukland>because i could not demolish the tunnel :S
16:09<@Rubidium>that piece of tunnel was owned by a company that went bankrupt, which was company #1 (what you would see as #2 in-game). When you start a new company it reuses the lowest free company ID (which is the same as the bankrupt company), so the new company owns the tunnel...
16:09<@Rubidium>and when you own the tunnel, you can do with it what you want
16:09<Luukland>ah :P
16:09<@Rubidium>(you can see a rogue company in the game)
16:09<Luukland>explaines everything
16:09<Luukland>but Rubidium
16:09<Luukland>next time if you join, use destroy tool on water or trees to go bankrupt faster please ^^
16:10<Luukland>now you have "used" a slot :)
16:10<Eddi|zuHause3>yes, flatten the whole land to water :)
16:11<@Rubidium>Luukland: just let the server admin remove it
16:11<eekee>mewf. rebuilt openttd in (a copy of) the source tree, & no joy with that issue
16:12<eekee>If that's the latest nightly, the server admin doesn't even care if anybody's playing before killing the game for upgrade
16:12<Luukland>Rubidium he is not online >_<
16:12<Luukland>and one other thing
16:12<eekee>(i think it must upgrade on auto or something O.o)
16:12<Luukland>will this "bug" be removed in further version?
16:13<TrueBrain>I am suprised how little ideas people have for r10000
16:13<geoffk>whats r10000?
16:13<eekee>the one after r9999?
16:13<TrueBrain>when we hit the 10000st commit in this SVN
16:14<geoffk>i dont know what r9999 is, but i gues its after r9998 :p
16:14<TrueBrain>@openttd commit
16:14<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: Commit by rubidium :: r9965 trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp (2007-05-28 20:46:59 UTC)
16:14<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: -Fix: the ownership of drive through road stops on town owned roads wasn't properly reset when the road stop was removed.
16:14<TrueBrain>That is what a revision is :)
16:14<geoffk>im usualy good for ideas, its just implementing them im bad wiht
16:14<eekee>yeah me too lol
16:14<geoffk>dont wanna let me near the code it will ever work again
16:15<ln->maybe something cool should be prepared for r10000, and then someone could accidentally commit something irrelevant just before.
16:15<@peter1138>let's keep Bjarni offline then
16:16<@peter1138>he's unify all vehicles
16:16<TrueBrain>he is irrelevant :p
16:16<@peter1138>bjarnification :D
16:16<TrueBrain>oh, that sounds bad :)
16:16<geoffk>is there anywhere i can see what people have suggested for this r10000? im dumb noob with ttd dev so i dont know what its about
16:16<eekee>any more ideas on my issue? Rebuilding it in the source tree didn't help
16:16<@peter1138>it's not about anything, it's just a number, heh
16:16<Hendikins>As long as it isn't a crash on launch bug I'll be happy
16:17<geoffk>TrueBrain, thanks taking a look
16:17<Luukland>r10000 should have: - Adjust demolishing costs, Add "standard" trams, Adjust max airports a town, and last: add more standard station names....
16:17<Luukland>Just my ideas :)
16:17<TrueBrain>post them! :)
16:17<TrueBrain>the winner gets a cookie :)
16:17<Hendikins>My vote goes for regression fix of some sort
16:18<Luukland>Regression fix :S
16:18<Luukland>Explain please
16:19<TrueBrain>night peter1138
16:19|-|Brianetta [] has joined #openttd
16:19<Luukland>and i am also for: - 2 lanesroads - highways - "normal roads" , with each different max. speeds
16:20<eekee>max speeds around town would make sense
16:20<TrueBrain>post them! :)
16:20<eekee>mew of course *click*
16:20<Luukland>And of course the change of rail tracks: - normal - elecric - highspeed - monorail - megalev
16:20<geoffk>highways i heard mentioned in here a few times does sound like a good one
16:21<Luukland>highspeed = for TGV, ICE, etc.
16:21<Hendikins>Working PBS would make for a happy wolfox.
16:21<geoffk>i know, i want something thast auto places signals on the line takes too long
16:21<Hendikins>Luukland: A regression is when something that used to work gets broken. A regression fix is when you fix said breakage.
16:21<Luukland>ah :X
16:21<geoffk>might be tricky though, not simple i would think
16:22<Ailure>r10000 should have free porno
16:22<Ailure>everyone get's happy
16:22<TrueBrain>Ailure: post it! :)
16:22<Luukland>( Ailure, i do not want to sound rude, but.. I already have......)
16:23<geoffk>TrueBrain, is it ufeasable to think that auto placing singals between stations could be done?
16:23<Luukland>:S geoffk :S
16:23<Luukland>why should that be done?
16:23<geoffk>because it takes me too long to place them
16:23<Luukland>TTD = was RSI openTTD= anti-RSI
16:23<Ailure>Might be tricky to find porn that is GNU compatible
16:24<geoffk>i want things that speed up the build process
16:24<Luukland>geoffk remember the old ages? That you had to click to place a lot of lights?
16:24<geoffk>i'd liek the day lenght patch to work
16:24<eekee>signals can be a pain. counting tiles after every bend in the track....
16:24<geoffk>Luukland, yes i do :)
16:25<eekee>I do too... *shudder* :D
16:25<Luukland>well then OTTD has helped a lot :p
16:25<Ailure>*click, click, click, click*
16:25<Ailure>and then you watch a signal that is turned the wrong way D:
16:25<eekee>actually I built my biggest network back then
16:25<geoffk>Luukland, it has helped loads and im very greatful to all the effort from everyone
16:25<Ailure>and you don't notice it until five years after
16:25<Luukland>total waste of money :P
16:25<Luukland>yes, those good old days
16:26<eekee>hehe ya
16:26<Luukland>with my favorite map Potosi Merida
16:26<Luukland>and Zamora
16:26<Luukland>great towns :P
16:26<eekee>I had 11 trains stuck for 10 years in one game while I was working on the other end of the map. I already had billions, though, so it didn't matter
16:27[~]Luukland thinks back to the old ages, when you could buy petrol for 10 cents a litre
16:27<geoffk>i spent 4 years building a track the otherday its just not good
16:28<eekee>geoffk: so does everyone you compete with though...
16:28<geoffk>to find i had a singnal wrong way which took 2 years to debug
16:28<geoffk>eekee, true, but time goes fast by time you cvomplete your upgradng track
16:28<eekee>yeah I guess
16:29<Hendikins>I've got a 256x256 map on the server eekee can't connect to. I'm going to connect all the towns by tram :P
16:29<Luukland>TTD = best game ever*
16:29<Luukland>* = that works on dos :P
16:29<geoffk>i'd really like hte game to be possible to slow down, i look forward to playign day legnth patch in a release
16:29<Luukland>it was in the miniIN geoffk
16:29<Luukland>*it is in the MiniIN
16:29<@Rubidium>why does that always resurface?
16:30<geoffk>Luukland, yeha i was looking last night but im so dumb i dont know how to get it working, but im working on it
16:30<@Rubidium>the day length stuff in MiniIN was broken, MiniIN itself was (MP) broken for a *very* long time
16:30<geoffk>was 5am i got in bed last night because of lay light patch
16:31<geoffk>day length* even
16:31<eekee>mew, I'm so used to it as it is I don't think I'd play on a server with a different length of day
16:31<vofflan>how do i turn of slop penalty?
16:31<Luukland>slop penalty?
16:31<vofflan>i have npf_rail_slope_penalty set to 0
16:31<Luukland>what's that?
16:31<geoffk>i'd like a game that lasts a month
16:31<geoffk>to give time to spend profits on a huge map
16:32<Luukland>geoffk we have to start a tournement
16:32<@Rubidium>vofflan: depends on what pathfinder you're using
16:32<eekee>... that'd be interesting... hehe
16:32<geoffk>Luukland, sounds liek a good idea
16:32<vofflan>im using the new pathfinder
16:32<Luukland>the "best OTTD" all together
16:32<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r9966 /trunk/src/tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp: -Fix: bridges and tunnels were not always removed on bankruptcy, thus leaving tunnels/bridges with an invalid owner that would crash the game when clicking with the query tool on them.
16:32[~]Hendikins hrms, his trams are pulling in an average of $10kpa, and he thought they were a waste of space... :P
16:32<eekee>OTOH, I think it's perfectly ridiculous for a single railway line to take up as much space as a skyscraper base, and I think any number of such complaints could be made if you want realism, but if you want realism, I think you want a different game, really
16:33|-|sPooT [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:33<geoffk>i'd also like more player to be able to play with teams
16:33<Luukland>with supreme Administration and Officials, we could really set up a tounement
16:33<Luukland>maybe something for the future
16:33<@Rubidium>vofflan: are you sure YAPF is disabled?
16:33<geoffk>yeah its not goingto happenn tomorrow
16:34<Luukland>no, and we need some "fear" maps
16:34<Luukland>where there is no "best spot, or best beginning"
16:34<vofflan>im pretty sure
16:34<eekee>I don't like NPF, or rather NPF doesn't like my machine in a multiplayer session with a large-ish map. I thought my machine was, generally quite able, lol
16:34<Hendikins>What is that machine anyway?
16:34<eekee>Luukland: I hear the UKRS is hard to start off with
16:34<geoffk>at the moment im idea im trying to work on but not gining much time to lately is a freely redistributable grfproject but im hoping to get into action with it son
16:35<Luukland>eekee great
16:35<Luukland>but they have a long way to go anyway
16:35[~]eekee thinks... "Okay.. AMD Sempron, I can never remember the number but I know it's > 3000. Ram is 1GB
16:35<geoffk>im been working on hex converting codes with a webgui that hope to make available
16:36<geoffk>basicaly wnt to make a web interface for adding grf;'s so that anyone can make a vehicle and add it to the project
16:37<Luukland>i only have experience with HTML
16:37<Luukland>so i do not think that I can help
16:37<geoffk>i can code php which is what im relying on
16:37<Luukland>php 5?
16:37|-|thgergo [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:38<Luukland>look at the time
16:38<geoffk>i got a big learnign curve though with making grfs at moment but i'll get it son enough
16:38<Luukland>little childeren have to sleep now
16:38<Luukland>so i am gone
16:38<geoffk>laters Luukland
16:38<Luukland>Good night everyone!
16:38<XeryusTC>geoffk: i dont think that will work
16:38<eekee>'kay, hehe, nite!
16:38<geoffk>XeryusTC, howcome?
16:38|-|Luukland [] has quit [Quit: Ik wacht, en ik wacht, al sinds februari wacht ik. Ik vraag mijn zelf af: hoelang moet ik nog wachten, want er lijkt geen einde aan te komen...]
16:39<XeryusTC>geoffk: because you need to be able to define sprites and fix their alignments
16:39<geoffk>XeryusTC, i tihnk i should be able to work that out
16:39<geoffk>i got no definate plan as yet, but i dontn see a problem
16:40<XeryusTC>i'd like to see you handle the pcx files properly
16:40<geoffk>php and gd2 withsome interesting code should do the job
16:40<CIA-1>OpenTTD: bjarni * r9967 /trunk/src/ (autoreplace_cmd.cpp train_cmd.cpp):
16:40<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix (r9938): autoreplace would in certain conditions move dualheaded engines in a train (usually to the rear)
16:40<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Change: moving an engine in between the two ends of a dualheaded engine will
16:40<CIA-1>OpenTTD: now move the rear dualheaded engine to the front of the newly added engine
16:40<CIA-1>OpenTTD: (instead of moving the new engine to the rear of the rear dualheaded engine)
16:40<CIA-1>OpenTTD: This can make a difference if there are wagons in the train
16:41<geoffk>i can think of other ways round it too
16:41<@Bjarni>wow. Once revision closer to rev 10k
16:42<geoffk>the grpahics may have to be developed in png then later convered somehow to pcx
16:42<geoffk>i dont know hwa support php gives for pcx at moment
16:44<eekee>might be able to run pngtopnm and ppmtopcx on the server
16:44<XeryusTC>you must use the paletted pcx
16:44<eekee>(pnm & ppm being basically the same format)
16:46<geoffk>interesting not something i nkow about
16:46<eekee>ahuh, you can force the palette with ppmtopcx.
16:46<Eddi|zuHause3>can anyone translate that commit message? :p
16:46[~]geoffk takes a look
16:46<eekee>(most Linux boxes have those commands. I'm just not sure abotu the server lettign you run them)
16:46<Eddi|zuHause3>into english would suffice :p
16:47<XeryusTC>you cant use truecolor pcx files
16:47<eekee>Eddi|zuHause3: It's something about dual-header trains getting the engines in the wrong order on autoreplace
16:47<geoffk>eekee, i can work myways round permissions on linux
16:47<eekee>k ^^
16:47<Eddi|zuHause3>i got that part, it's the part about putting the rear front in front of the front of the rear, or so...
16:48<eekee>hehe I didnt' get that either
16:48<@Bjarni>you know, it's kind of tricky to explain....
16:48<@Bjarni>but it works better now :)
16:49<@Bjarni>ahh, let me give you an example
16:49<@Bjarni>we have <12345> (<> is the engine, the numbers are cars)
16:49<@Bjarni>you drag engine A to 3
16:49<eekee> <-- manual page for pngtopnm, just in case it's useful
16:49<@Bjarni>it used to be placed after >, so the train would look like <12345>A
16:50<@Bjarni>now it will be <123>A45
16:50<Eddi|zuHause3>right... and how does that fix autoreplace?
16:50<@Bjarni>because the engine is placed at 3 like if there was no dualheaded engine and then the > is placed in front of it
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16:51<@Bjarni>autoreplace uses this feature to add engines between dualheaded engines
16:52<Eddi|zuHause3>you mean like replacing A to B in <>A<>?
16:52<@Bjarni>because <--><--> is a bitch. When replacing it, it will because <----> when removing the rear engine pair. Autoreplace has to place the new engine between the <> pair to restore the original order
16:52<@Bjarni>before this fix, the result would be <----><>
16:52<Eddi|zuHause3>now i understand it :)
16:53<eekee>ahh, me too
16:53<Eddi|zuHause3>you can't have <-->-- in between
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16:53<@Bjarni>no because it will move the rear engine since I use the normal move command
16:54<Eddi|zuHause3>yes, i see the problem in that :)
16:55<@Bjarni>and the solution looks mighty simple... I added one line of code and removed a whole lot of code, but to do that I had to make sure that I didn't break anything else, so I walked though every combo that I could think of
16:57<eekee>Hey does anyone use a train to shuttle passengers & mail to & from an out-of-town airport? I tried it in... 9712 & the train picked up it's own passengers & mail (& made money!) while the plane sat their empty
16:57<@Bjarni>I wrote the code I removed a long time ago. I added something to take care of the issue it was meant to deal with later (both later in time and later in command), so it wasn't really needed anymore, but it did manage to cause problems for my autoreplace fix
16:57<@Bjarni>eekee: you need passenger destinations to do that right
16:58<eekee>Bjarni: passenger destinations?
16:58<geoffk>eekee, i have tried messing with out of town airports and using trains to move passengers to and from them but it never works our well
16:58<@Bjarni>try simutrans and you will know what I mean
16:58<eekee>ahh ok
16:58<Eddi|zuHause3>eekee: you can use transfer only to either bring or take passengers, not both
16:58<eekee>mew, tricksy
16:59<Eddi|zuHause3>i suggest building the airport that it accepts passengers and mail
16:59<geoffk>i tried usign 2 airports, arrivals and departures but it dont make good money
16:59<eekee>maybe I'll rebuild it with 2 airports or something
16:59<eekee>oh, hehe
16:59<Eddi|zuHause3>then you can bring them by bus/train/tram with transfer
16:59<Eddi|zuHause3>and unload them with plane without transfer
17:00<Eddi|zuHause3>have "transfer and leave empty" orders...
17:00<XeryusTC>gn all
17:00<eekee>mine's a long flight so it should make
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17:01<geoffk>i hd long hauls but it seems to be bad for profit
17:02<eekee>I'm finding the longer the better, at the mo
17:03<eekee>maybe it's a passenger thing
17:03<geoffk>its better but i find there are many better ways to make money
17:03<Hendikins>Is it just me, or are tram tracks immune to coal mine subsidence?
17:03<geoffk>its a shame realyl its something i tried many times including in a game a few weeks ago but it was jsut a waste of time really
17:04<geoffk>it looks good but profitwise you loose out
17:04<Hendikins>Airports are easy.
17:04<Hendikins>Stick two on opposite ends of the map in big towns, fly between them. $$$
17:04<eekee>I was doing a little below par in a game, then noticed I was feeding factories & not taking the goods. 4 airport installs later & my profits were up 40 or 50% into a clear lead
17:04<geoffk>airports are too easy
17:05<geoffk>there should be more restrictions on building airports i tihnk
17:05<@Rubidium>Hendikins: roads (and thus trams) are never affected by disasters
17:05<geoffk>maybe make the towns a bit more harder to allow them to be built
17:05<Hendikins>Rubidium: Maybe they should be :)
17:06[~]Hendikins currently has 22 towns on his tram network
17:06<geoffk>should have to have a outstanding rating in a town before you can build one or something
17:06<Hendikins>geoffk: No, it simply needs to be less lucrative.
17:06<geoffk>or that
17:06<Hendikins>The fact it doesn't have the infrastructure costs that land transport has means easy money.
17:06<eekee>anything fast in TTD is insanely lucrative
17:06<geoffk>i tihnk they are able to be built too easy though
17:07<Hendikins>I'll disagree. They can be abused too easily though.
17:07<eekee>maybe restrictions on flat land around them, no building for a certain distance in front of the runways
17:07<geoffk>Hendikins, i can understand you point
17:08<Eddi|zuHause3>(big) airports should cost insane amounts of money
17:08<Hendikins>Eddi|zuHause3: You can generate insane amounts of money with small ones.
17:08<geoffk>there should be have taxes for planes sitting at airports for long time thats real life
17:08<eekee>oh hey geoffk: do you pu the planes on full load?
17:09<geoffk>no i dont
17:09<eekee>ahh, I'm not sure but it seems to help
17:09<Hendikins>I put planes on full load on one end.
17:09<geoffk>normaly i have so many oassengers waiting filling the plane isn't a problem
17:10<Eddi|zuHause3>Hendikins: i did not say there aren't other balancing issues
17:10<geoffk>although that could be my problem
17:10<geoffk>the wait so long the cargo devalues
17:10<eekee>eh, i rather like openttd as it is, lol, faults & all :D
17:10<Hendikins>Eddi|zuHause3: Thing is, if you're upgrading, you can probably afford it anyway.
17:10<eekee>ahh could be
17:10<geoffk>eekee, yeah its coll openttd its best game online i can think of
17:11<geoffk>i do liek freeciv better but online its not as good
17:11<Eddi|zuHause3>geoffk: unless you use transfer, it does not matter how long cargo waits on the station, the moment you load it into the (first) vehicle counts
17:11<geoffk>thats my opinion
17:11<geoffk>i do use transfer
17:11<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r9968 /branches/0.5/tunnelbridge_cmd.c:
17:11<CIA-1>OpenTTD: [0.5] -Backport from trunk (r9966):
17:11<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Fix: bridges and tunnels were not always removed on bankruptcy, thus leaving tunnels/bridges with an invalid owner that would crash the game when clicking with the query tool on them.
17:12<eekee>mew, I'm off to bed. nini peeps
17:12<Hendikins>I use transfer a lot on pax.
17:12<Hendikins>Have buses feeding rail/air/ferry services.
17:12<geoffk>i find transfter puts a huge dint in profits i try not to use it anymore
17:12<Hendikins>Depends. If I'm using transfer to fill a lucrative route, it is good for profits.
17:13<geoffk>i tried transfering things a few times on a route but a lot of profit gets lost i find
17:14<Hendikins>I tend to only do a single transfer
17:14<Hendikins>eg. Pax from town by bus to long and highly lucrative rail/air/sea route
17:17<Eddi|zuHause3>transfer is fine if you don't do too many experiments, and the cargo does not spend a lot of time at the intermediate station
17:17<geoffk>one of biggest watste of times i made was spendign ages tranfering differnt cargos to one central distribution place then sending it out, the profit was pointless
17:18<Hendikins>Feeders can work well if done right
17:19<Hendikins>Say you've got 4 coal mines in fairly close proximity. Put a major station at one of them, and use feeders. It will work well with a single destination point.
17:20<geoffk>yeah i do that sometimes that works
17:20<geoffk>if you got a lot of one thing nearby its worth it
17:20<Hendikins>Long transfer legs don't tend to be worth it so much
17:20<Eddi|zuHause3>the general problem is mixing cargos from different sources
17:21<geoffk>yeah thats where i find problems
17:21<Eddi|zuHause3>and this cannot be fixed with the current system
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17:28<UndernotBuilder>32bpp already in trunk? :O
17:28<Eddi|zuHause3>yes :p
17:29<UndernotBuilder>from when?
17:30<UndernotBuilder>woohoo :D
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17:30[~]Eddi|zuHause3 wonders how long it'll take him to realise
17:32<UndernotBuilder>this is like in rct when you tell the game to move to the location of something?
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17:36<Hendikins>heh, when this is finished I'll have all towns with an Outstanding opinion of me :)
17:37<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah, trams need almost no groundwork
17:37<@Bjarni>so our game will have the same opinion of you as we do, only mirrored?
17:37<Eddi|zuHause3>you don't have to remove town roads, and almost no terraforming
17:38<Hendikins>Given almost all my stops are on balloon loops, there is still work to do
17:39<Eddi|zuHause3>trams need proper terminal stations, like 2x2
17:39<UndernotBuilder>also aRVs too necesary? why not make a long trams set?
17:40[~]Hendikins finds himself bulldozing at least one house when putting trams in
17:40<Eddi|zuHause3>vehicles longer than 1/2 tile are extremely ugly in curves
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17:40<UndernotBuilder>pressed enter accidentally
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17:45[~]Hendikins sits back and waits for his goodwill to hit outstanding across the board
17:46<@Bjarni> <-- let me know if you fail :p
17:46<Hendikins>If life is the sole cause of death, I must be immortal
17:47<Eddi|zuHause3>so the phrase "get a life" is actually some kind of death-penalty? :p
17:48<Hendikins>Somewhat ironic, I would think
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17:48<@Bjarni>funny how nobody picked up on me asking him to tell me if he failed to live forever (like when he is dead)
17:50<Eddi|zuHause3>it was too obvious to find a funny enough reply :p
17:52<@Bjarni>you lack imagination
17:52<Eddi|zuHause3>it was just beneath me :p
17:52<@Bjarni>no it wasn't
17:53<Eddi|zuHause3>yes it was
17:53<@Bjarni>no it wasn't
17:53<Eddi|zuHause3>yes it was
17:53<@Bjarni>I'm happy that we can solve this on the adult level that fits us
17:53<@Bjarni>no it wasn't
17:53<Eddi|zuHause3>the smarter one gives in until he is the dumber one
17:53<Eddi|zuHause3>yes it was :p
17:54<Sacro>@openttd head
17:54<Sacro>!openttd revision
17:54[~]Sacro ponders
17:54<@Bjarni>the stupid one don't realise that it's law to agree with whoever has ban rights
17:54<@Bjarni>no it wasn't
17:54<mggrant>!*&$openttd! ;)
17:54<Eddi|zuHause3>Sacro fails :p
17:55<Eddi|zuHause3>i have ban rights...
17:55<@Bjarni>let him continue
17:55<@Bjarni>it's fun to see whatever he comes up with next
17:56<Eddi|zuHause3>no, it's not :p
17:56<@Bjarni>yes it is
17:57<@Bjarni>!openttd commit
17:57<_42_>Commit by rubidium :: r9968 /branches/0.5/tunnelbridge_cmd.c (2007-05-28 22:11:42 UTC)
17:57<_42_>[0.5] -Backport from trunk (r9966):
17:57<_42_>- Fix: bridges and tunnels were not always removed on bankruptcy, thus leaving tunnels/bridges with an invalid owner that would crash the game when clicking with the query tool on them.
17:57<@Bjarni>Sacro: now you owe me one
17:57<Sacro>Bjarni: i will give you one later
17:57<@Bjarni>sounds great
17:57<Eddi|zuHause3>i'd be careful what you say :p
17:57<@Bjarni>I will look forward to getting one
17:58<Sacro>so you should
17:59<@Bjarni>when will it arrive?
18:00<Sacro>when you least expect
18:01<staniel>Bjarni: grab your ankles and get it over with
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18:03<@Bjarni><Sacro> when you least expect <-- that's not quick enough
18:03<@Bjarni>I want it tomorrow
18:03<Sacro>Bjarni: i thought you'd prefer it slowly
18:03<Eddi|zuHause3>i have the strange feeling UndernotBuilder still did not realise...
18:03<@Bjarni>Eddi|zuHause3: me too
18:04<@Bjarni>Sacro: who would ever want a shipment slowly???
18:04<UndernotBuilder>not realise what?
18:04<Eddi|zuHause3>exactly that :p
18:04<vofflan>i got this message on my server
18:04<vofflan>Client #18 is slow, try increasing *net_frame_freq to a higher value!
18:04<vofflan>where do i change that value?
18:05<Eddi|zuHause3>in the game console (on the server)
18:05<Eddi|zuHause3>but you should not increase it above 3, the game can get very unresponsive
18:06<UndernotBuilder>I don't understand
18:06<Eddi|zuHause3>UndernotBuilder: that's fine... :p
18:06<@Bjarni><UndernotBuilder> I don't understand <-- we realised that a while ago
18:07<UndernotBuilder>Stop confusing me!!!!
18:07<Eddi|zuHause3>you'll survive it :p
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19:02<vofflan>is it possible to get timestamp in the server console?
19:15<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r9969 /trunk/src/ (industry.h industry_cmd.cpp table/build_industry.h): -Codechange: Cleanup of industries (Step-14). Remove hardcoded-run-time tile acceptance and put in corresponding tile
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19:22<@Belugas>vofflan, you don't have to be excited, it's not such a big change...
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19:38<UndernotBuilder>will be nice a openttd tool-assisted speedrun :P
19:39<UndernotBuilder>considering that there was a try of the snes version of the first sim city, why not a (O)TTD(P)?
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19:57<UndernotBuilder>there is a mod of dosbox that allows savestates and re-recording so with ttdpatch will work
20:01<Jerub>how do you do a speedrun for openttd?
20:02<Jerub>start in 2049 and see how big a profit you can post before 2050?
20:02<UndernotBuilder>Maybe creating the best network in the minor time possible
20:03<Jerub>... I might have to try that.
20:04<UndernotBuilder>there should be other options like... make $ in the least time possible
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20:08<UndernotBuilder>Well, that better for DOS TTDPatch, as they are better on singleplayer and the DOSBox mod thing
20:10<Jerub>Maybe coop speed tria.s.
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20:33<UndernotBuilder>so, other idea for a (O)TTD(P) speedrun?
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---Logclosed Tue May 29 00:00:54 2007