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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-06-13

---Logopened Wed Jun 13 00:00:09 2007
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00:32<mikk36>anyone here good with odbc / paradox ?
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01:31<Phazorx>hmm... got a save crashing on same date every time 10104 + hash patch
01:31<Phazorx>peter1138 are you awake alreadY?
01:32<@peter1138>hash patch?
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01:41<Phazorx>peter1138, it is train collision related must say
01:42<Phazorx>shall i dcc or post somewhere?
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01:43<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r10128 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix (r4811): missing printf parameters in newgrf debug message
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01:43<Phazorx> on 29th Jul 2204.sav
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01:44<@peter1138>spaces in url :o
01:44<Phazorx>WP :)
01:44<Phazorx>work in opera
01:45<@peter1138>corr, blocked
01:47<@peter1138>traffic jams
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01:55<@peter1138>ok, got it
01:56<Phazorx>jams are massive, sorry about that
01:56<Phazorx>i left it running while i was asleep :)
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02:14<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r10129 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Fix (r10111): Test for x == INVALID_COORD instead of v->tile == INVALID_TILE to determine if a vehicle should be removed from the has.
02:15<@peter1138>Phazorx: there you go
02:15<Phazorx>peter, i'm testing unpatched one
02:15<hylje>if a vehicle should be removed from the has?
02:15<Phazorx>thre is one thing i do not like
02:15<Phazorx>unpatched jams less
02:15<Phazorx>as in it did not
02:16<Phazorx>hylje: i'm playing with PS44
02:16<Phazorx>as a test kase for SML
02:16<Phazorx>i left it running for a while
02:16<Phazorx>it jammed
02:16<Phazorx>with 104M
02:17<Phazorx>now running with 104
02:17<Phazorx>it doesnt :/
02:17<Phazorx>and i see some trains making wrong turns :(
02:17<hylje>might have some funnyness about
02:17<Phazorx>peter is there some "look ahead" limit now?
02:17<Phazorx>probably not ur patch but yapf itself
02:18<Phazorx>trains after waiting for a while and declared lost - choose wrong path
02:18<Phazorx>on that safe some trains destined for north drop turn around south
02:18<Phazorx>safe = save
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02:29<TheJosh>openttd is failing to link.
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02:34<TheJosh>nevermind, has been fixed
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02:59<CIA-1>OpenTTD: maedhros * r10130 /trunk/src/newgrf_text.cpp: -Fix (r4493): SetCurrentGrfLangID returned the wrong language ids for most languages.
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03:04<Nickman>hi all
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04:12<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10131 /trunk/src/ship_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#810]: when removing a dock, a ship will always try to reach the old location of the dock even when it cannot anymore because it the old location of the dock is now land instead of water.
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05:32<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r10132 /trunk/ (18 files in 6 dirs):
05:32<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Codechange: split out the last direct video-buffer read access to the blitter-layer
05:32<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Add: added a new renderer and blitter to make room for some optimized bpp
05:32<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix: fill the alpha channel in the grf-spriteloader
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05:38<dihedral>hello :-)
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05:39<Noldo>TrueBrain: is it faster now? ;)
05:39<dihedral>TrueBrain: you are just the person i need for a quick q
05:39<TrueBrain>nope, this new blitter is VERY slow :(
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05:39<TrueBrain>hi kaan
05:40<dihedral>is it possible to make a tcp connection to a game and run an rcon command without being an actual 'client' to the game
05:40<TrueBrain>currently: no
05:40<dihedral>or would it be possible to tweack the server to also accept udp rcon packets?
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05:41<TrueBrain>the latter might be unsafe
05:41<Phazorx>peter1138: jams were my bad
05:41<TrueBrain>but someone adding a tcp rcon socket sounds like a good diea
05:41<@peter1138>Phazorx: oh?
05:41<Phazorx>should not have nessed with yapf
05:41<@peter1138>Phazorx: you mean i wasted my morning chasing it up?
05:41<@peter1138>i should bill you ;)
05:41<Phazorx>peter jams yes
05:41<Phazorx>bug no
05:41<Phazorx>bug was real
05:42<dihedral>TrueBrain: like on another port?
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05:42<@peter1138>the crashing bug, yes, but i fixed that
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05:42<Phazorx>peter1138: i could have been quiet and u'd be chasing even longer
05:42<Phazorx>you should respect my time as well since it is 5 aM here :)
05:42<TrueBrain>dihedral: most likely works best, or add stuff in the current TCP protocol to accept telnet :p
05:42<@peter1138>up late or early?
05:42<TrueBrain>I do suggest simple telnet would work
05:43|-|TrueBrain changed nick to TrueColor
05:43<Phazorx>reason for detours were bumped station penalty
05:43|-|TrueColor changed nick to TrueColour
05:43|-|TrueColour changed nick to TrueBrain
05:43<dihedral>or another port so it can be firewalled :-P
05:43<Phazorx>and since concept involves stations on ML used for lanechanging - it forced some of them to take off right path :(
05:44<Phazorx>i forgot i put -15000 for stations instead of 3000
05:44<@peter1138>-15000 ?
05:44<@peter1138>*minus* ?
05:44<Phazorx>penalty kinda implies negatove score
05:47<Rubidium>dihedral: I've not been able to reproduce your bug yet; will look at it again later today
05:47<dihedral>are you using the bug.sav i made? from 1946-11-02
05:47<dihedral>crash is in 1946-12-18
05:48<Phazorx>any relevance to my crash earlier which peter fixed?
05:48<Rubidium>dihedral: it happily goes to 1947
05:48<dihedral>what did peter fix?
05:48<Rubidium>dihedral: nothing with *any* influence to your bug
05:48<dihedral>Rubidium: if you want access to my server dont hesitate to ask
05:48<Phazorx> peter1138 * r10129 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Fix (r10111): Test for x == INVALID_COORD instead of v->tile == INVALID_TILE to determine if a vehicle should be removed from the has.
05:49<dihedral>the game has not vehicles
05:49<dihedral>the game has no players
05:49<dihedral>no clients
05:49<dihedral>just an empty game
05:49<Phazorx>it died from boredom then?
05:49<dihedral>brings a Floating point exception
05:49<dihedral>and i just tried it again!
05:50<Phazorx>decided to find out if division by zero is really posiible may be?
05:50<dihedral>Rubidium: do i need to compile with some special option to get more output?
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05:52<Rubidium>dihedral: well, a debug compile ran in gdb would be useful, cause then it tells where it crashed
05:53<Noldo>woundn't core be enough?
05:53[~]dihedral is compiling with --dedicated --debug
05:54<Noldo>does --debug imply -g ?
05:55<Rubidium>Noldo: it should
05:55<TrueBrain>--enable-debug, I hope :)
05:55<Rubidium>TrueBrain: no
05:55<Rubidium>it's 0.5
06:00<dihedral>tell me i have to set debug_level
06:00<Rubidium>no, you just compiled a binary with debug information, so we can actually see where it crashed.
06:00<dihedral>i cannot
06:00<CIA-1>OpenTTD: celestar * r10133 /branches/gamebalance/ (99 files in 10 dirs): [gamebalance] -Sync: r9620:9670 from trunk
06:00<Rubidium>I'd suggest to first run it and check whether the crash still occurs
06:01<dihedral>it does
06:01<dihedral>same date
06:01<dihedral>every time
06:01<Rubidium>even with the new binary?
06:01<Rubidium>ok, try gdb ./openttd
06:02<Rubidium>(hopefully starts gdb ;))
06:02<dihedral>i called it openttd_debug - just so i dont make a mistake :-P
06:02<Rubidium>doesn't matter, gdb ./openttd_debug in that case ;)
06:02<dihedral>now what
06:02<dihedral>yeah - i know that :-)
06:03<Rubidium>type "run " with the parameters you normally give when you start a dedicated server with that crashing savegame
06:03<Rubidium>something like "run -D -g save/crash.sav" or so
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06:03<dihedral>i never used -g only the command load but that should not make a difference
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06:06<Rubidium>it did crash?
06:06<dihedral>0x080f86e6 in SndPlayScreenCoordFx (sound=SND_39_HEAVY_WIND, x=0, y=1024)
06:06<dihedral>at sound.c:209
06:06<dihedral>209 sound.c: No such file or directory.
06:06<dihedral>in sound.c
06:07<dihedral>sure did
06:08<dihedral>is that helpful?
06:09<Rubidium>can you post the result of a bt on
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06:09<@peter1138>x = 0 == division by zero ;(
06:09<@peter1138>or something
06:10<@peter1138>ah yes
06:10<@peter1138>if vp->virtual_width is too low
06:10<@peter1138>left / (vp->virtual_width / ((PANNING_LEVELS << 1) + 1))
06:10<raaq>hi, how do you disable breakdowns in openttd.cfg?
06:10<@peter1138>== boom
06:10<dihedral>just the lines after it quit right?
06:10<@peter1138>raaq: by changing the difficulty setting
06:10<@peter1138>i.e. a long line of numbers. good luck :p
06:11<Rubidium>ooh, dihedral guess you've got resolution at 0,0 right?
06:12<dihedral>sure have
06:12<Nickman>who is working on the NoAI branch?
06:12<dihedral>oh - wait - let me check
06:12<raaq>is that in openttd.cfg?
06:12<dihedral>no 1,1
06:12<@peter1138>that's still do it
06:12<Rubidium>hmm, 0,0 crashes instantaniously
06:12<@peter1138>panning_levels is 16
06:12<dihedral>you want my config
06:13<@peter1138>x / 1 / (16 << 1 + 1)
06:13<@peter1138>x / (1 / (16 << 1 + 1))
06:13<raaq>aah nvm
06:13<@peter1138>= x / (1 / 33) = x / 0
06:13<raaq> ;>
06:13<@peter1138>that one
06:15<Rubidium>ok, so the cause of the bug has been determined. Will look at it later today (if nobody else already did)
06:15[~]Rubidium is gone for a while ;)
06:16<dihedral>thanks Rubidium
06:17<CIA-1>OpenTTD: celestar * r10134 /branches/gamebalance/ (115 files in 15 dirs): [gamebalance] -Sync: r9670:9700 from trunk
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06:39<TrueBrain>doesn't that just make you happy?
06:42<Nickman>it does ;)
06:43<Nickman>what's it for TrueBrain ?
06:43<TrueBrain>to make you happy
06:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: celestar * r10135 /branches/gamebalance/ (180 files in 13 dirs): [gamebalance] -Sync: r9700:9900 from trunk
06:49<Eddi|zuHause3>evil smilie faces?
06:50<TrueBrain>how are they evil?
06:50<Eddi|zuHause3>red = evil
06:50<TrueBrain>depend on your definition
06:50<TrueBrain>but okay
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06:57<Nickman>celestar is busy it seems ;)
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07:01<Eddi|zuHause3>he's got >200 revisions left :)
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07:06<CIA-1>OpenTTD: celestar * r10136 /branches/gamebalance/ (190 files in 17 dirs): [gamebalance] -Sync: r9900:10100 from trunk
07:07<Nickman>what did you say? :D
07:16<Eddi|zuHause3>i said he has 36 revisions left :p
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07:24<Nickman>haha :D
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07:32<Thomas[NL]>How do you filter the new features from the svn log?
07:33<Eddi|zuHause3>svn log | grep -i feature
07:33<Eddi|zuHause3>add -C2 or something
07:35<Thomas[NL]>thank you
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07:55<redmonkey>i've just compiled 0.5.2 on my linux. but what does this mean?:
07:55<redmonkey>yapf/blob.hpp:238: warning: assuming signed overflow does not occur when assuming that (X - c) >= X is always true
07:56<redmonkey>yapf/blob.hpp: In function ‘void EngList_Destroy(EngineID**)’:
07:56<redmonkey>yapf/blob.hpp:238: warning: assuming signed overflow does not occur when assuming that (X - c) >= X is always true
07:57<redmonkey>do i have to worry?
08:04<Nickman>if it compiled succesfully, don't worry ;)
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08:04<redmonkey>yes, compiled successfully
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08:17<TrueBrain>cool, not?
08:19<hylje>is that some title screen
08:20<dihedral>sound.c line 135 static void StartSound(uint sound, int panning, uint volume)
08:21<dihedral>line 195 static void SndPlayScreenCoordFx(SoundFx sound, int x, int y)
08:21<dihedral>sound gets sent to StartSound given as first argument
08:21<dihedral>why then is it uint in StartSound and SoundFx in SndPlayScreenCoordFx ?
08:21<Eddi|zuHause3><Nickman> if it compiled succesfully, don't worry ;) <- "a warning is something you can safely ignore" :p
08:22<dihedral>just being curious... btw - it's from 0.5.2 :-P
08:27<Nickman>TrueBrain: ghost palins!
08:28<Eddi|zuHause3>it's "planes"
08:28<Nickman>Eddi|zuHause3: when you arn't the developer, you don't have to worry much about warnings ;), but it's much better te fix them in the code
08:28<Nickman>yeah, typo ;)
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08:30<dihedral>anybody feeling 0.5.3RC1 is on the horizon?
08:31[~]TrueBrain looks to the birds in the sky
08:31<TrueBrain>I count just 2
08:31<KUDr_wrk>redmonkey: what g++ version you compiled it on?
08:31<TrueBrain>gcc 4.2
08:31<TrueBrain>I want to bet on :p
08:32<redmonkey>KUDr_wrk: 4.2.0
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08:34<redmonkey>do you need all the warnings?
08:35<KUDr_wrk>yes, if possible
08:35<redmonkey>one sec
08:35<KUDr_wrk>post it somewhere or try DCC it to me
08:39<redmonkey>===> Compiling subsidy_gui.c
08:41<redmonkey>no problem
08:45<KUDr_wrk>redmonkey: what do you have at blob.hpp line 238? I have here the following:
08:45<KUDr_wrk>FORCEINLINE void CheckIdx(int idx) { assert(idx >= 0); assert(idx < Size()); }
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08:47<redmonkey>FORCEINLINE void CheckIdx(int idx) { assert(idx >= 0); assert(idx < Size()); }
08:47<KUDr_wrk>yes, the same. So why warning? hmmmmmm
08:48<redmonkey>unfortunately i'm not a programmer, so i don't have a clue :)
08:49<KUDr_wrk>if it means only "assuming signed overflow does not occur" then it is his own optimization hint and he doesn't need to generate warning i guess
08:49<Eddi|zuHause3>looks like a optimisation thing
08:49<Eddi|zuHause3>possibly gcc bug?
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08:57<redmonkey>uhoh. i guess i copy and pasted it in a wrong codepage.. it shows questionmarks("?") instead of "’"
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09:48<Noldo>the compiler is letting you know that the condition is mostly allways true
09:53<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10137 /trunk/src/console_cmds.cpp: -Add: console command to get the current game date.
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09:56<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10138 /trunk/src/sound.cpp: -Fix: when you got a sufficiently small resolution, there is a possibility for a division by zero when a sound is played.
09:57<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10139 /trunk/src/openttd.cpp: -Fix: all inner parts of OpenTTD assume that the resolution is at least 1 by 1, so force the resolution to be always at least 1 by 1.
10:03<Ailure>I call anyone insane if they actually play at 1x1 resolution :p
10:03<Ailure>I know that it's a common trick to lower the resolution for servers so they run faster or something
10:03<Rubidium>dedicated server...
10:03<XeryusTC>it was unstable under a certain resolution though
10:03<XeryusTC>that resolution being 4xx*something IIRC
10:04<Ailure>I remember that OTTD used to crash if you had the console open
10:04<Ailure>while going under a certain resolution
10:04<Rubidium>XeryusTC: all those should've been solved by now
10:04<XeryusTC>yeah, i guessed that :P
10:22<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10140 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#867]: an industry could overbuild a bridge.
10:24<CIA-1>OpenTTD: celestar * r10141 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix (FS#848, r8973): Set the newgrf bit for realistic plane speeds (bulb)
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10:35<TrueBrain>with the new null-blitter, the res matters even less :p
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11:04<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r10142 /trunk/src/ (blitter/32bpp_simple.cpp fontcache.cpp): -Fix r10132: do something useful with the alpha channel instead of ignoring it
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11:14<stillunknown>TrueBrain: Are you going for full 32bpp support?
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11:14<Eddi|zuHause3>do you suggest him to go for half 32bpp support?
11:15<Eddi|zuHause3>i.e. 16bpp?
11:16<Sacro>and then 24bpp
11:16<@peter1138>now that's silly
11:16<TrueBrain>stillunknown: who? me?
11:17<@peter1138> < how's that for art? :p
11:18<stillunknown>TrueBrain: You or your alter ego.
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11:18<Sacro>peter1138: its very... abstract
11:18<TrueBrain>I don't have an alter ego
11:18<TrueBrain>I think
11:20<@peter1138>Sacro: 5 is a bit more conventional
11:21<@peter1138>still f00ked though
11:21<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r10143 /trunk/ (12 files in 5 dirs):
11:21<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Add: store the filename of the grfs opened and allow easy access to the name
11:21<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Codechange: store the SpriteID in the spritecache too
11:21<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Add: add a PNG loader for graphical files
11:21<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Documentation: added a document to explain the PNG format
11:21<hylje>opengl renderer?!
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11:24<@peter1138>hylje: *cough* er, no?
11:24<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r10144 /trunk/docs/32bpp.txt: -Fix r10143: forgot some svn:eol-style
11:24<hylje>oh ok
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11:25<kaan>oh man, training was hard today
11:25<TrueBrain>poor kaan
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11:25<kaan>thanks, more please ;)
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11:26<TrueBrain>I have a hard day coding :p
11:26<kaan>ohh, poor thing ...
11:26<TrueBrain>have = had :p
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11:27<stillunknown>TrueBrain: Is this like the 32bpp format that was already floating around, or something new?
11:28<TrueBrain>it is lightly based on several patches
11:28<stillunknown>Is it safe to assume the 32bpp renderer is slow?
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11:29<TrueBrain>3 to 4 times slower than 8bpp-optimized
11:32<stillunknown>I wonder if a if a switch to disable certain rendering above a certain zoom level is usefull.
11:32<TrueBrain>why exactly?
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11:33<stillunknown>When looking at a huge map, with many trains, the rendering of those trains can make it difficult to go to the desired position.
11:33<TrueBrain>so you have to zoom in a bit :p
11:33<TrueBrain>disallowing the zoom-levle won't really help
11:33<TrueBrain>but okay, as I want to add a zoom-in level, and not all blitters iwll support that 1, 2, 3
11:34<TrueBrain>there most likely will be a function to disallow zoom-levels for certain blitters
11:34<stillunknown>I wouldn't disallow the zoom level.
11:34<TrueBrain>oh, you mean the rendering of things
11:34<stillunknown>Just disable certain rendering.
11:34<TrueBrain>for that you have smallma ;)
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11:34<XeryusTC>stillunknown: when you get to know TrueBrain a bit better you'll read through his random typo's
11:35[~]TrueBrain kicks XeryusTC (bitch)
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11:35<TrueBrain>hi grzywacz
11:35<XeryusTC>he never fails to amaze me with his sentences that make no sense though :P
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11:36<Rubidium>hmm, is XeryusTC TrueBrain's bitch? :D
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11:37<XeryusTC>Rubidium: fortunately not, i can't even imagine how it would be like to have met TrueBrain IRL
11:37<Ailure>I mean
11:37<Ailure>sup all
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11:37<TrueBrain> @kick XeryusTC (bitch)
11:38<XeryusTC>hey! i dont have to take this kind of shit from you [/cartman]
11:40<TrueBrain>yeah, you do
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11:43<grzywacz>Is this a dev-channel as well?
11:43<Sacro>as well as what?
11:43<grzywacz>As well as user-social-whining-whatever.
11:43<Sacro>hmmm, its normally just a dev channel
11:44<XeryusTC>Sacro: no
11:45<Ailure>[18:41] <grzywacz> As well as user-social-whining-whatever.
11:45<Ailure>HIGHWAYS NOW!
11:45<Ailure>becuse I demand it
11:45<Rubidium>Ailure: where are those patches?
11:45<Ailure>also let me find that highway mockup that's been posted 234234 times now
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11:46<Ailure>I hope I didn't scare him away.
11:47<kaan>wouldnt it be cool if we could like make this game into the sims for train drivers?
11:48<Ailure>I really like the idea of watching the train driver while he's in the bathroom
11:48<kaan>ohhh, and a nudity patch too!
11:48<Ailure>Isn't the nudity on some trucks enough? ;)
11:49<kaan>never enough nudity!
11:49<Ailure>(There was some road vehicle newGRF that had naked women on the buses...)
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11:49<kaan>look, we are making them all leave :D
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11:50<Ailure>ah yes
11:50<Ailure>this one
11:50<Ailure>they're quite small though :p
11:51<kaan>oh, i must say that i think the artist has too much time on his hands.
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11:53<Ailure>He's multiplying
11:53<kaan>yup, we scared him good :P
11:54<Eddi|zuHause3>is he Scaro now?
11:56<grzywacz>Hm? Me? Scared away? Nah.
11:56[~]grzywacz points up
11:57<Ailure>just do !logs and read :p
11:59<Sacro_>my wifi is being an arse
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12:06<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause3: ping?
12:07<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause3: was it you who experienced the vehicle disappearing?
12:07<@peter1138>still there, i presume
12:07<Eddi|zuHause3>i have not tested in a while
12:07<@peter1138>vehicle.cpp:902, try changing 0xFFFF to 0xFFF
12:07<@peter1138>the array size is 0x1000, not 0x10000...
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12:09<Eddi|zuHause3>compiling takes a while
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12:12<Eddi|zuHause3>it's taking awfully long...
12:12<@peter1138>there's loads of c++ shit now ;)
12:13<Eddi|zuHause3>does not fix it
12:14<XeryusTC>Eddi|zuHause3: get a better cpu
12:15<Eddi|zuHause3>i mean the modification does not fix the drawing problem :)
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12:25<Wolf01>do you are merging the 32bpp?
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12:27<Rubidium>uhm, "the" 32bpp?
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12:28<Eddi|zuHause3>someone is probably doing something to 32bpp, but i'd not exactly call it "merging"
12:29<Noldo>adding 32bpp related features to the trunk
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12:34<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10145 /trunk/src/ (intro_gui.cpp main_gui.cpp oldloader.cpp strings.cpp): -Fix: make compiling with networking disabled (again) possible.
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12:53<Progman>something annoying part in the new order system, you cannot lose the focus of an entry if you click on the order windows background anymore
12:54<kaan>peter1138: are you trying to say something specific?
12:55<Eddi|zuHause3>he's trying to say "optimized" but cannot spell it correctly :p
12:55<kaan>oh, I see.
12:56<kaan>i better get me some dinne :)
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13:09<stillunknown>Is there a good reason why vehicles are not a double linked list?
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13:10<dihedral>allo there
13:11<Rubidium>'allo 'allo
13:12<Wolf01> lol... i remember this behaviour existed as a bug :D
13:12<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause3: what was the "missing vehicle formula?
13:13<@peter1138>1024 something something something
13:13<Eddi|zuHause3>(x, 1024+x) or the other way round
13:13<Eddi|zuHause3>whatever is the top left border
13:13<Eddi|zuHause3>it's probably symmetric, but i did not test that
13:14<Eddi|zuHause3>wait, i have a savegame somewhere
13:14<@peter1138>ideally paused with a missing vehicle in the viewport ;)
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13:21<Eddi|zuHause3>it's not paused at the right moment, but the train is going back and forth
13:21<Eddi|zuHause3>you can clearly see it
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13:21<@peter1138>server is not responding :o
13:22<Eddi|zuHause3>damn them!
13:24<Eddi|zuHause3>it'll work again eventually, but probably not tonight...
13:25<Eddi|zuHause3>i'll go upload it to
13:27<dihedral>how about makeing exclusive transport rights a feature one can disable?
13:27<Eddi|zuHause3>if only there was a fast way to transfer it directly from the server... my home connection is not exactly fast
13:35<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r10146 /trunk/src/newgrf_industrytiles.cpp:
13:35<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Codechange: Silence a compiler warning
13:35<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Codechange: Comment style beautifying
13:35<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Codechange: define (tentatively) var 0x44 and 0x61 for industry tiles
13:36<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10147 /trunk/src/oldloader.cpp: -Fix: the oldloader did clear some bits for road vehicles that shouldn't be cleared in some cases.
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13:38<Eddi|zuHause3>what exactly does "tentatively" mean?
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13:41<@Belugas>Eddi|zuHause3 : like... not sure if it is the correct way of doing, but it sure do look fine. However, "i make no claim to correctness, speed, or anything"
13:41<@Belugas>harhar :D
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13:52<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r10148 /trunk/ (configure projects/generate source.list src/spritecache.cpp): -Fix r10143: make --without-png to compile again
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14:05<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r10149 /trunk/src/spritecache.cpp: -Fix r10143: MSVC warnings... (tnx boekabart and glx)
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14:09<TrueBrain>so, now we need 32bpp graphics...
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14:15<Nickman>is the rest complete TrueBrain ?
14:15<TrueBrain>Nickman: define 'complete'
14:16<Nickman>Is the code ready to load the 32bpp GRF's? :)
14:17<Nickman>or do you need to make blitters and other stuff to make it work?
14:18<TrueBrain>there are no 32bpp GRFs
14:18<TrueBrain>they simply do not exist
14:19<Nickman>yes, but if someone would make one, is it possible to load them with the current code or not? sinde you said "now we need 32bpp graphics..."
14:19<Nickman>sinde = since
14:19<TrueBrain>nah, there are easier ways :)
14:20<TrueBrain>it was perfectly english
14:20<TrueBrain>I can repeat it in Dutch if you like
14:20<Nickman>I understand that to ;)
14:20<Nickman>But what do you mean with easier ways?
14:20<Nickman>no newGRF's or what?
14:20<TrueBrain>I understood you understand Dutch the moment you typed GRF's... was a dead give-away
14:20<Nickman>hehe :D
14:20<Nickman>because of the 's? :D
14:20<Sionide>if (YouAreHappyAndYouKnowIt) {
14:20<Sionide> ClapYourHands();
14:21<TrueBrain>yup :)
14:21<TrueBrain>Sionide: invalid variable: YouAreHappyAndYouKnowIt
14:21<Nickman>but what do you mean with "easier ways" ?
14:21<Rubidium>Josie and the Pussycats ;)
14:21<TrueBrain>what more there is to tell? :)
14:21<Nickman>you have to declare it first Sionide...
14:21<TrueBrain>Rubidium: good movie :)
14:21<Sionide>it's a snippet ffs!
14:22<Nickman>I can't follow you TrueBrain :p
14:22<TrueBrain>makes you wonder, doesn't it? :)
14:22<Nickman>damn you.... :D :p
14:24[~]Sionide pokes Nickman in the eye with a spork
14:24<Sionide>YouAreHappyAndYouKnowIt = brainState->happynessState();
14:25<Nickman>Still not decalred Sionide ...
14:25<Nickman>bool YouAreHappyAndYouKnowIt = brainState->happynessState();
14:25<Nickman>but the you would need to declaire and assign brainState...
14:25<Sionide>cat /dev/brain/ | grep happynessValue
14:26<Nickman>and to decalre it you need to declare the Class...
14:26<Nickman>or include it ;)
14:26<Nickman>hehe :D
14:26<Nickman>good solution Sionide ;)
14:26<Sionide>haha, someone in another chan suggests this;
14:26<Sionide>if (self->happy && self->know_it) { self->ClapHands(); }
14:28<TrueBrain>if (self && self->IsHappy() && self->KnowIt()) { self->ClapHands(); }
14:28<TrueBrain>much more safe to use ;)
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14:28<Eddi|zuHause3>only assuming NULL evaluates to false
14:30<@Bjarni>never presume anything
14:30<@Bjarni>like write a test app
14:30<@Bjarni>int *a = NULL;
14:30<@Bjarni>if (a) printf("true"); else printf("false");
14:31<Eddi|zuHause3>"proof by example"
14:31<hylje>test apps suck
14:31<hylje>interactive interpreter ftw
14:31<@Bjarni>I would consider it bad coding though
14:31<@Bjarni>I would test for (a != NULL)
14:31<Rubidium>I'd say #define NULL (void*)1
14:32<Eddi|zuHause3>exactly :p
14:32<hylje>#define TRUE 0
14:32<hylje>#define FALSE 1
14:33<Eddi|zuHause3>all odd numbers > 1 are prime
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14:33<Eddi|zuHause3>test case: 3 works
14:33<Eddi|zuHause3>test case: 5 works
14:33<Rubidium>there is nothing that explicitly states that NULL *always* evaluates to false (IIRC there are some platforms where NULL != (void*)0)
14:33<Eddi|zuHause3>test case: 7 works
14:33<Eddi|zuHause3>proof complete
14:34<lolman>DISPROOF BY COUNTEREXAMPLE: 9 is divisible by 3
14:34<Eddi|zuHause3>oh wow, lolman got the clue!!
14:34<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r10150 /trunk/src/spritecache.cpp: -Fix r10148: show a message to users when using 32bpp blitter and no libpng available
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14:38<@peter1138>Rubidium: actually NULL is always 0
14:39<kaan>$: Clap
14:39<Rubidium>where's that in the C(++) specs?
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14:39<@peter1138>it may not be the internal representation
14:39<TrueBrain>peter1138: a better way of saying it: there are no systems stupid enough to to make NULL something else ;)
14:40<HMage>as a sidenote, Mac (before intel) could allow writing to NULL
14:40<kaan>i always write to /dev/null at leat it seems that way most of the time ;)
14:40<@peter1138>Rubidium: no idea, i have no C(++) specs
14:41<@peter1138>"The fact that a NULL pointer is just 0 is not an implementation detail. It is not really a value -- it is a standard *syntax* to say that you want a pointer to be null."
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14:41<@peter1138>so NULL is always '0' as a symbol
14:42<HMage>it's like in relational database ideas, NULL is not 0, it's not a value at all, it's no value
14:43<Eddi|zuHause3>i don't read from that sentence that NULL actually evaluates to false
14:43<@peter1138>and it will become 'nullptr' at some point
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14:48<Sionide>what's that TrueBrain ?
14:48<TrueBrain>Sionide: a screenshot
14:48<Sionide>"art" ?
14:48<TrueBrain>oh, most likely one of my latest shot for the art-series
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14:49<Wolf01> do you think this may work to make a port of OTTD for pocket pc?
14:49<TrueBrain>Wolf01: last time I checked: no
14:49<TrueBrain>it is the only gcc compiler around
14:49<TrueBrain>but I ended up using the package VLC has to compile their software
14:50<TrueBrain>Wolf01: but it still is under development, so who knows
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14:58<kaan>TrueBrain: looks nice the 32bit farmland :)
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14:59<TrueBrain>kaan: yup, it does; I only wish I had better graphics :(
14:59<kaan>It will come some day :P
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15:00<kaan>when you release 32bit then artists will begin to make grf for that too
15:00<TrueBrain>grfs won't help :p
15:01<kaan>please explain then
15:01<@peter1138>release what?
15:03<kaan>peter1138: anything really, or free willy
15:03<TrueBrain>kaan: grfs do not support 32bit, and is rather tricky to add; if you want to read more about it, read the file in docs/, or the blog
15:03<kaan>ok, ill take a look
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15:12<kaan>i still dont get what you mean by: "I only wish I had better graphics"
15:12<kaan>mind you that it is possibel that its just me that is being stupid :P
15:13<TrueBrain>I currently have 32bit graphics that suck and make screenshots like above
15:13<TrueBrain>which are slightly off
15:13<TrueBrain>which is annoying
15:13<kaan>slightly off, like in offset?
15:13<TrueBrain>like in they are 1 row too big
15:13<TrueBrain>I downscaled the ones from the wiki
15:13<TrueBrain>which clearly sucks
15:14<kaan>so waht you really need is for someone to make you some nice pictures in the right format?
15:14<kaan>good luck, i suck at that :P
15:15<kaan>maybe you could make a request in the forum?
15:15<stillunknown>TrueBrain: is it really impossible to embed misc files into newgrf?
15:15<kaan>it couldnt hurt
15:15<TrueBrain>stillunknown: impossible: no; hard: yes
15:16<stillunknown>size restrictions?
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15:16<boekabart>TrueBrain: we could png as a big non-sprite :)
15:16<kaan>stillunknown: why would that be useful?
15:16<TrueBrain>no, not really
15:16<boekabart>* add the png as ....
15:16<TrueBrain>stillunknown: it is just that grfcodec is... not that easy :)
15:16<TrueBrain>boekabart: haha, true :)
15:16<TrueBrain>but as we want both 32bpp and 8bpp
15:17<TrueBrain>it just is too tricky
15:17<TrueBrain>this way is much much easier ;)
15:17<boekabart>well just define a new action for it :)
15:17<boekabart>but i don't like it anyway
15:17<stillunknown>But there would need to be support for embedding a newgrf and a png into a single file
15:17<TrueBrain>stillunknown: why?
15:17<TrueBrain>2 files work just as well
15:18<TrueBrain>newgrf with 8bpp, and a tar file to make it 32bpp
15:18<stillunknown>Does it recognize the newgrf inside a tar file?
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15:19<@Belugas>or trickering grfcodec. It already can load binaries, for sounds. Adding supoprt to 32bpp should not be THAT much different...
15:19<@peter1138>yeah, but is it worth it?
15:19<@Belugas>maybe. like only one engine
15:19<Rubidium>the question is, will the author of grfcodec appreciate that?
15:20<@peter1138>what, patchman/dalestan?
15:20<@Belugas>the only way to know is to ask...
15:20<TrueBrain>and an other side question: is newgrf that good of an engine for this job? :)
15:20<TrueBrain>but okay, we pick this road for now, we will see what the future brings
15:20<@Belugas>Patchman wrote it, Dalestan supports it
15:21<@peter1138>stillunknown: actually you can embed files into newgrf really easily
15:21<@Belugas>and Patchman is more responsive to cahnges than Dalestan
15:21<@peter1138>but they won't be used by anyway :p
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15:21<@peter1138>sound files are embeded, for example
15:28<TrueBrain>I suck in graphics :p
15:29<dihedral>looks a little muddy - like after a monsoon
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15:30<TrueBrain>but okay, enough proof-of-concept
15:30<kaan>you still have way more talent than me :D
15:30<TrueBrain>I just did some filter over the original graphic :p
15:31<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10151 /branches/0.5/oldloader.c: [0.5] -Fix [FS#862]: train disconnects in some old TTD savegames.
15:31<dihedral>yeah - looks like down to 16 colors
15:31<kaan>see talent pouring from every pore in his bofy compared to me
15:31<TrueBrain>it in fact is 32bpp :s
15:31<TrueBrain>but okay
15:32<TrueBrain>clearly not something for me :p
15:32<dihedral>down to 16 and back up to 32?
15:34<@peter1138>this is why TrueBrain doesn't draw
15:34<TrueBrain>I rather code
15:35<Nickman>TrueBrain: what are you doing in all those screenshots?
15:35<Nickman>32bit testing?
15:35<TrueBrain>no, 16 color testing :p
15:35<Nickman>stupid shift
15:35<TrueBrain>4bpp :p
15:35<Nickman>because you suck at graphics? :D
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15:37<TrueBrain>of course 32bpp testing
15:38<@peter1138>TrueBrain: do you think it actually needs to be fully stated at some point?
15:38<dihedral>32bpp / sucking_at_it = 16bpp
15:38<TrueBrain>users === stupid
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15:40<Nickman>what a triple =?
15:40<TrueBrain>absolute equal
15:40<TrueBrain>0 == false, but 0 !== false
15:42<@peter1138>sounds like php ;)
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15:47<TrueBrain>only works in languages that have silent-typeconversion
15:47<TrueBrain>C++ clearly isn't one of them :)
15:48<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10152 /branches/0.5/unix.c: [0.5] -Fix: MorphOS interprets // as /../, so do not add any duplicate slashes (tokai).
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15:52<Eddi|zuHause3>=== is syntactical equivalence, == is semantical equivalence
15:52<Eddi|zuHause3>meaning 1+1 == 2, but not 1+1===2
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16:05<Rubidium> <- that one really flies ;)
16:06<Wolf01>eh i see :D
16:07<Phazorx>that's an old bug
16:07<Phazorx>i have a drive through factory somewhere
16:08<Wolf01>seem that the maglev runs on the mine rails :D
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16:13<Eddi|zuHause3>that could not have happened with the old bride system :p
16:14<Wolf01>yes, wifes were better some time ago
16:15<Eddi|zuHause3>my keyboard is sometimes unresponsive while i am loading the mouse
16:15<Eddi|zuHause3>it's really weird :)
16:15<Wolf01>mine too, especially Q and M
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16:16<Eddi|zuHause3>i have most problems with modificator keys (ctrl, shift, ...)
16:17<Eddi|zuHause3>occasionally there are letters missing, i notice it especially with e and n (that might be because they are the most used keys (after space)
16:18<Eddi|zuHause3>btw., shouldn't it be "wives"?
16:19<Wolf01>yeah, like dwarves
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16:20<@peter1138>what, you send your wife down the mines?
16:20<Eddi|zuHause3>what, you don't?
16:20<@Bjarni>you throw your wife as far as possible?
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16:23<Eddi|zuHause3>maybe he is frustrated because size does matter :p
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16:57<dihedral>Rubidium: any news?
16:58<Rubidium>yup, it's fixed in trunk
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16:58<Rubidium>and it's on the 'to backport' list, so it will get into 0.5.3 in due time
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17:07<Rubidium>dihedral: it's a fairly easy fix, so you could backport it manually to your 0.5.2 if you want to
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17:07<dihedral>yes - i see
17:08<dihedral>so that would not cause any dsync's?
17:08|-|[NNUser] changed nick to Nickman87
17:09<Rubidium>no, it's code that changes the volume of sounds
17:09<dihedral>true :-P
17:09<dihedral>how odd is that !!
17:10<dihedral>can sound not be disabled for dedicated servers?
17:10<Rubidium>ofcourse lots of the other fixes on the backport fix can cause desyncs etc.
17:10<Rubidium>dihedral: sound is disabled at a very low level
17:10<Rubidium>(as in the level that actually plays it)
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17:10<dihedral>could the not be some configure option --no-sound?
17:11<Rubidium>that would still cut it off at the same place
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17:11<Rubidium>or litter the code with #ifdefs
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17:11<dihedral>so that there aint no code to even play sounds
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17:12<Rubidium>dihedral: #ifdefs usually mean increased unmaintainability
17:12<dihedral>that then would also make the binary smaller?
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17:14<Nickman87>hom come I can't take my nick Nickman???
17:14<Nickman87>I'm using mIRC now instead of Opera IRC ;)
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17:14<dihedral>Rubidium: howcome then that the game would crash using that save game, but run happily in other games?
17:15<dihedral>same settings...
17:15<Eddi|zuHause3>Nickman87: usually means the other nick is taken
17:15<dihedral>ah - never mind
17:15<Nickman87>yeah Eddi|zuHause3, but it's mine! :D
17:15<Rubidium>dihedral: bad luck; it only happens when the sound is actually played within the viewport
17:16<Eddi|zuHause3>yes, but it belongs to the other you :p
17:16<Nickman87>damn me!!!!
17:16<Eddi|zuHause3>/whois Nickman
17:16<dihedral>Rubidium: thought of that after asking the q
17:16<Nickman87>I'll retake my nickname tomorrow ;)
17:17<Eddi|zuHause3>Nickman87: check if your other client is still connected, if it's not, the timeout is 10 minutes
17:17<Nickman87>it isn't connected anymore
17:17<dihedral>would a res of 0,0 actually work
17:17<dihedral>in the hope it would use less cpu
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17:18<Eddi|zuHause3>no, 0,0 crashes the game
17:18<dihedral>thought it might :-P
17:19<Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause3: that's been "fixed" too, 1,1 will be the new minimum :)
17:19<Eddi|zuHause3>yes, i read that :)
17:19<Eddi|zuHause3>but since dihedral is messing with 0.5, i thought i'd mention it :)
17:20<Nickman87>stupid IRC holiding my nickname!
17:20<dihedral>what is the best thing i could do to help find possible bugs?
17:20<Rubidium>Nickman87: maybe "/msg nickserv help" helps you
17:21<dihedral>run a game built from trunk?
17:21<@peter1138>thanks ;)
17:22<Rubidium>I'd rather say: not that nasty anymore
17:22<dihedral>i do like the buildings :-P
17:23<Eddi|zuHause3>i actually like the black grid
17:23<dihedral>whats with the pink font?
17:23<Eddi|zuHause3>but you should be able to disable the grid completely
17:24<Rubidium>ghehe, disabling the grid (for plain OTTD) means redrawing a large percentage of sprites
17:24<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah, i know
17:24<Eddi|zuHause3>but it might be taken into account when drawing new stuff :)
17:24<dihedral>just set grid color to 1px to the left :-P
17:25<@peter1138>what grid colour?
17:25<dihedral>the black grid
17:26<Eddi|zuHause3>dihedral: the normal grid is painted into the base tiles, not drawn on them
17:26<Nickman87>I'm off to bed ;)
17:26<Eddi|zuHause3>hm... i always find myself trying to zoom in :p
17:26<dihedral>where is 1.0?
17:26<Eddi|zuHause3>(on that picture)
17:27<dihedral>g'night Nickman87
17:27<Eddi|zuHause3>dihedral: windows 1.0? you can probably google that :p
17:27<Nickman87>cya tomorrow ;)
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17:27<dihedral>Eddi|zuHause3: was more of a futuristic dream of openttd
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17:28<dihedral>i too should head to bed
17:28<dihedral>i want my bed, my bed wants me, oh how happy could i be
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17:46<kaan>I made the most important patch EVAR, put it in trunk now or i fart in your general direction!
17:49[~]Rubidium checks the direction of the winds
17:50<Rubidium>ooh, you can fart all you want, it won't reach me in :D
17:50[~]kaan plans to send it by airmail
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17:52<Rubidium>the question is, why are those "best" bridges needed?
17:52<kaan>so that the AI doesnt build wooden bridges for fast trains?
17:52<Rubidium>really, tubular is totally unnecessary for *any* non-maglev
17:53<kaan>and i hate it when the towns build wood bridges and my roadvehicles use them
17:53<Rubidium>do you use YAPF for RVs?
17:53<kaan>i dont think so
17:53<Eddi|zuHause3>i agree... choose the one that is suitible for max. vehicle speed, not the actual best one
17:53<kaan>i just went and made a irrelevant patch instead ;)
17:54<Eddi|zuHause3>actually, what happened to the noai branch?
17:54<Eddi|zuHause3>someone got sidetracked, i believe :)
17:54<kaan>nothing much i think
17:54<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause3: just a little
17:55<kaan>Eddi|zuHause3: so how do you decide the max speed then, a bridge will stand for an entire game when build by the AI
17:55<Rubidium>kaan: with YAPF RVs won't take a slow bridge if the total travel time is longer than a detour with a faster bridge
17:55<Phazorx>here is an idea for making AI helpfull - an option for town which lets player subsidize locla transport
17:55<Eddi|zuHause3>kaan: did you ever see the AI upgrading vehicles?
17:55<Phazorx>AI player is cxreated that manages local traffic and hense grows town
17:56<Eddi|zuHause3>we should install 50km/h speed limit in towns anyway
17:56<kaan>Eddi|zuHause3: i never paid attention ;)
17:56<Phazorx>cuz in large pax games 1st you have to wait for tyhem to grow - 2nd - dealing with growth is a hassle too
17:57<kaan>Rubidium: ok, i didnt know that, i need to start building my own bridges then ;)
17:57<kaan>but i still think its an improvement
17:57<Rubidium>kaan: what would be better is to let the town make road bridges with a "fair" speed
17:57<kaan>its one of those things that makes the perception of the AI skill bad
17:59<Rubidium>fair for road vehicles would be like 80-160 km/h
17:59<kaan>yes, but then we are talking more than a hack, i made a hack
17:59<Eddi|zuHause3>actually, bridges should have a lifetime, and need to be rebuilt/upgraded afterwards
18:00<kaan>Eddi|zuHause3: yes, that would be good
18:00<kaan>most bridges is build to last about 100 years
18:00<Eddi|zuHause3>at least for town AI handling, i.e. town rebuilds bridges after a while
18:01<Eddi|zuHause3>i've seen much older bridges :p
18:01<Rubidium>for normal rail up to 80-209, for el rail up to 200 - 321 km/h, monorail and maglev any of the tubulars
18:01<Eddi|zuHause3>but 100 years is too long for openttd
18:01<kaan>yes, but when build the designers usualle say, we made it to last about 100 years
18:02<kaan>anyway, i hope i shed some light on (yet another) part of the code that could use some love
18:03<Rubidium>kaan: there are still so many pieces of code that are ugly and need "love"
18:03<kaan>is there a list somewhere?
18:04<Eddi|zuHause3>cat *.cpp
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18:14<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10153 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Fix [FS#869]: vehicles disappear when crossing certain tiles. Fix by B. N. SmatZ!.
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18:21<Phazorx><Eddi|zuHause3> but 100 years is too long for openttd
18:21<Eddi|zuHause3>yes, i said that...
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18:21<Phazorx>i'ts 2231 and i'm still building parts of network
18:22<Eddi|zuHause3>so what? the current game development covers about 130 years
18:22<Eddi|zuHause3>i.e. the time where new vehicles appear
18:22<Eddi|zuHause3>of course you can play longer
18:23<Eddi|zuHause3>but i'd suggest something around 30 years
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18:24<Phazorx>i think that si to short
18:24<Eddi|zuHause3>or an actual intelligent city planning, that builds 4-lane roads and bridges if the city grows
18:24<Phazorx>but that really depends on gamestyle and environement
18:24<Phazorx>Eddi|zuHause3: i havent seen that in real life btw
18:24<Phazorx>aside of Moscow actually
18:25<Phazorx>that's the only city i know where they have 8 lane streest in downtown
18:25<Eddi|zuHause3>you mean 4 lane roads?
18:25<Eddi|zuHause3>they are everywhere here
18:25<Phazorx>4 lane both ways
18:25<Eddi|zuHause3>no, i mean 2 lanes in each direction
18:25<Phazorx>Eddi|zuHause3: older cities are unlikely to have it
18:26<Eddi|zuHause3>all cities here are old...
18:26<Phazorx>since only regulation <1500 was "a night should be able to carry a spear across"
18:26<Phazorx>define old :)
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18:26<Eddi|zuHause3>old ::= >200 years
18:26<Eddi|zuHause3>i.e. pre-industrialisation
18:27<Eddi|zuHause3>road traffic is really only an issue since the 1930's
18:28<Phazorx>yeah, but soem towns had big central streets
18:28<Phazorx>like one or two which form a cross
18:28<Phazorx>however not many had full bodied structure that were able to carry a lot fo traffic
18:30<Phazorx>ttd has different timescale
18:30<Eddi|zuHause3>exactly, so lots of cities removed houses to build wider roads
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18:43<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10154 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Fix [FS#870]: some vehicles were not drawn when having a high resolution and a high zoom-out level. Patch by B. N. SmatZ!.
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18:56<kaan>night all :)
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20:13<Phazorx>hmm... were can you construct water towers?
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23:16<mikk36>hmm, still online
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---Logclosed Thu Jun 14 00:00:44 2007