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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-08-31

---Logopened Fri Aug 31 00:00:51 2007
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01:23<MarkSlap>Someone who has started a new game that I can join? :)
01:23<MarkSlap>(OTTD 0.5.2)
01:24<MarkSlap>Find alot on the site :D
01:25<Noldo>good for you
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05:42<Greyscale>Damn you openttd
05:42<Greyscale>I keep thinking the delete key will minimise all my windows!
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06:00<alex_>never knew that
06:00<alex_>is a there a hotkey to close all windows?
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06:10<Eddi|zuHause2>Greyscale: it gets worse if you think the F1 key (un)pauses applications :p
06:10[~]Greyscale has aliased del to minimise his windows
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07:39<nairan>i noticed that at random game all mines of same type have same ammount of cargo output
07:40<nairan>like all coal mines have 120t or iron has 90t
07:43<nairan>well i made another game and same all miney of same cargotype have same output..
07:43<nairan>its not really random anyome
07:45<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11013 /trunk/src/ (station.h station_cmd.cpp): -Fix [FS#1171]: MoveGoodsToStation's search area is too small as it assumed a lower maximum catchment area than the real maximum catchment area. Based on a patch by PhilSophus.
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07:50<SmatZ>oh no, I ate too much :-x
07:50<SmatZ>I feel I am going to explode
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07:58<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11014 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Fix (r11011) [FS#1170]: crash when selling the first train of a consist.
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08:06<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11015 /trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#1166]: towns would build bridges through eachother.
08:11<nairan>and also i just noticed that my rating dont go over 73%
08:11<nairan>most time it stays at 69 and i use 2 trains a 5 wagons.
08:12<+glx>build a statue in the town
08:12<SmatZ>glx what is a statue good for?
08:12<+glx>increase rating
08:13<SmatZ>nice, didn't know that!
08:13<Noldo>which rating?
08:13<SmatZ>in TTO, you could build unlimited number of statues :)
08:13<SmatZ>so have whole city full of your statues
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08:20<svip>:( Aw.
08:20<svip>No function to find a station within the area.
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08:25<svip>Is it possible to get all tiles within a specific radius?
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08:39<svip>Which catchment radius does airport uses?
08:41<Rubidium>depends on the airport and catchment settings
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08:56<svip>Hm, Rubidium.
08:57<svip>What catchment radius does industries have?
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09:05<svip>How do I fix this problem?
09:05<svip>src/zoning_cmd.cpp:162: warning: comparison of unsigned expression < 0 is always false
09:06<svip>I need to check if the variable is less than 0.
09:06<svip>But I don't want it always to be false.
09:07<+glx>un unsigned var can't be less than 0
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09:09<svip>What if I subtract more than its value from it?
09:09<svip>Then what does it become?
09:09<svip>Or does it *wrap*?
09:09<Rubidium>it wraps
09:09<svip>:O Gasp!
09:10<@peter1138>why, you can just check the carry flag!
09:10<Eddi|zuHause2>instead of a-b<0 you can test a<b
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11:49<svip>In a for loop.
11:49<svip>If I do continue; it will still perform the last part?
11:49<svip>That would be similar to i++;
11:50<svip>:/ I am having an odd situation with my industry catchment zoning.
11:50<svip>Let me show you some screenshots.
11:52<svip>Check out these three images.
11:52<svip> :: ::
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12:04<Noldo>I updated again
12:05<SmatZ>Rubidium: there is a patch included in -
12:05<SmatZ>it is a patch, not a modification for a client
12:05<@Bjarni>svip: interesting
12:05<Rubidium>SmatZ: true, but it fixes a bug
12:06<Rubidium>and patches are usually used for new features
12:06<SmatZ>Rubidium: ahh... so when I post some bugreport including a patch, then it is a bugreport? and patch is for adding functionality?
12:06<@Bjarni>svip: I have an idea. How about making an overlay of tiles to show all tiles accepting a certain cargo type
12:06<@Bjarni>and also for pickup
12:06<Rubidium>furthermore we easily overlook patches that fix bugs when they are marked as patches
12:07<Rubidium>primarily because my flyspray 'setup' selects bug reports only by default
12:09<Eddi|zuHause2>svip: i don't understand this "industry catchment"... what is it supposed to show, and why is it different in every picture?
12:09<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11016 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#1172]: stations would also be given cargo when vehicles have only dropped cargo of that particular type.
12:10<SmatZ>Rubidium: aha... okay, then I will set bugfixes as patches from now ... and include [PATCH] in the subject ... btw, 1169 and 1173 are "Patches" too
12:10<SmatZ>*patches as bug reports
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12:11<@Bjarni>svip: actually it would be cool to make an inner overlay for accepting coal while outer tile overlay is where you can pickup coal
12:11<@Bjarni>I mean, if it should be really useful :)
12:12<@Bjarni>actually it would be something everybody would use if you can make it mark areas where you can build a station and goods are accepted. Right now I don't know how to code it to work fast enough though
12:13<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11017 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Codechange: unify determining whether a vehicle needs/can be service a little more.
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12:16<Eddi|zuHause2>it should suffice to mark all tiles which accept x/8 goods, then the people can easily count that there are at least 3 such tiles in the catchment area
12:17<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11018 /trunk/src/economy.cpp: -Fix [FS#1169]: Disallow buying/selling shares in your own company or a bankrupted/non-existant company.
12:17<Eddi|zuHause2>(most office houses accept 3/8, so 3 should be enough most of the time)
12:17<@Bjarni>it's not really what I asked for, but it would certainly help :)
12:19<Eddi|zuHause2>well, yes, but calculating the acceptance of each tile including surrounding tiles is really problematic, as it depends on catchment radius and stuff, also, the "simple" approach recalculates the same data very often
12:22<svip> <@Bjarni> svip: I have an idea. How about making an overlay of tiles to show all tiles accepting a certain cargo type << A zoning for each layer?
12:22<svip>:/ Hm, that would be nice to have some modifications to the GUI then.
12:23<Rubidium>SmatZ: FS#1173 does not fix the issue when you try to build a ship depot at 0,0
12:23<svip>Because you don't want a HUGE drop list of stuff like "Pick up zone: coal," "Pick up zone: livestock", etc.
12:23<@Bjarni>svip: are you using git or hg?
12:23<svip>I know what git is.
12:23<@Bjarni>I guess not :)
12:23<svip>What what is hg?
12:23<svip><EddizuHause2> svip: i don't understand this "industry catchment"... what is it supposed to show, and why is it different in every picture? << That's the problem.
12:24<svip>It doesn't work correctly.
12:24<Noldo>they are version controll systems
12:24<svip>And it seems the other zonings are "interfering" with it.
12:24<svip>With two l's, Noldo?
12:24<Eddi|zuHause2>svip: no, make one layer "pickup zone", and use different colours for each cargo
12:24<@Bjarni>basically hg (or
12:24<svip>But what if there is more than one cargo in one zone?
12:24<Noldo>svip: my fingers are a bit buttonhappy
12:24<@Bjarni>damn, why is enter next to backspace :(
12:25<svip>Cause that's how they designed it.
12:25<svip>I also wonder why ' is next to enter.
12:25<@Bjarni>basically hg (or Mercurial) is like git, but it should have better clients for windows
12:25<Eddi|zuHause2>svip: either use overrides (like "goods" should always override "passengers"), or mix colours
12:25<svip>:/ Hm, Eddi|zuHause2.
12:26<svip>Maybe there should be a second drop down.
12:26<@Bjarni>the idea for both is that you can commit locally, which makes it easier to develop and maintain just a big diff as you are making
12:26<svip>That will become available or "APPEAR" if you pick "pick up zone".
12:26<Eddi|zuHause2>not a dropdown, but a selection bar, where you can select or deselect certain cargos (like on the station list)
12:26<svip>Then you can pick "all" and then you can pick "specific goods".
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12:27<svip>:( Eddi|zuHause2, that takes up a lot of space.
12:27<svip>And it doesn't always need to be there.
12:27<Eddi|zuHause2>so? make the window bigger :)
12:27<svip>If I select authority, I don't care about the cargo.
12:27<svip>Why is it taking up space then?
12:28<svip>Therefore it should not be there until you pick the correct thingie.
12:28<Eddi|zuHause2>you need space for a colour legenda anyways
12:28<Eddi|zuHause2>you can also open another toolbar...
12:28<svip>:/ Too much work.
12:29<svip>Bjarni: Han elsker kun piger på billeder, og det er ikke særligt sjovt, for han vil ikke nå dem, tag dem, jag dem, slå dem i nat.
12:29<Eddi|zuHause2>english only!
12:32<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11019 /trunk/src/group_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#1176]: Vehicles in a group must always have the same type when adding new vehicles to a group. Patch by SmatZ.
12:32<@Bjarni>svip: this is an English only channel
12:32<@Bjarni>and.... wtf
12:33<@Bjarni>not only is it completely off topic and totally without relationship with anything else in here
12:33<@Bjarni>it's also... wtf
12:33<svip>You are absolutely right.
12:33<@Bjarni>I know
12:34<svip>Now I've downloaded hg.
12:34<@Bjarni>for your sake: I will not translate that line for anybody... you will have to survive in here in the future
12:35<svip>Yeah yeah.
12:35<svip>I'd translate it myself if I wanted to.
12:35<svip>And for your information, it is the line from a song.
12:35<svip>So, uh, Bjarni.
12:36<svip>How do I convert it into hg?
12:38<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11020 /trunk/src/main_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#1174]: One could not give money when (s)he had too much money or rather: when casting the amount of money to an int32 becomes negative.
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12:43<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11021 /trunk/src/command.cpp: -Fix [FS#1175]: do not display income/expenses when they do not belong to a "valid" tile, like the money cheat/giving money.
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13:01<Noldo>hi skidd13
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13:26<Eddi|zuHause2>since when do docks have an increased catchment radius?
13:26<Eddi|zuHause2>and how does it behave on mixed stations?
13:27<svip>I noticed that docks have 5 radius.
13:27<svip>It surprised me as well.
13:27<svip>But I guess that's it.
13:27<@Belugas>T h a t i s a v e r y n i c e l o o k i n g s c r e e n s h o t !
13:27<svip>What's with the spaces in that line?
13:28<Eddi|zuHause2>after trying to do data recovery, i am starting to hate reiserfs...
13:28<svip>He did murder his wife.
13:29<Eddi|zuHause2>that is completely besides the point...
13:29<Eddi|zuHause2>and is that proven meanwhile?
13:29<svip>Not really.
13:29<svip>In fact, I still believe he didn't do it.
13:30<skidd13>genie and insanity are really close things
13:30<Eddi|zuHause2>it still does not have anything to do with data recovery...
13:30<SmatZ>Rubidium: you didn't give me a credit in svn 11018 :-(
13:30<@Belugas>you have a few ways to put the enphasise of something. Uppercase is considered yelling. Cannot use bold.
13:30<@Belugas>So white space has inddeed produced its effect :D
13:31<svip>You can't use bold?
13:31<svip>I usually use asterisks.
13:31<svip>Like *this*.
13:31<@Belugas>hem... i do not know how rather :D
13:31<svip>Or slashes, like /this/.
13:31<svip>Or underscores, like _this_.
13:32<svip>Or exclamation marks, like !this!.
13:32<skidd13>whitespaces are IMO more eye-friendly
13:32<svip>And sometimes to make SUPER emphasise, I use them all.
13:32<svip>*/_!T H I S!_/*
13:33<@Belugas>next time, i'll just say "cool"
13:34<Eddi|zuHause2>next time, i'll just use ext3...
13:34<svip>Or xfs. :]
13:35<Eddi|zuHause2>is this bold?
13:35<Eddi|zuHause2>cool :)
13:37<Eddi|zuHause2>konversation uses % with another character (B,I,U,S) to start/end bold/italics/underlined/struck-out
13:37<svip>Cause that is good when you're posting a link with special characters in it, Eddi|zuHause2.
13:37<svip>Xchat used to do that.
13:38<svip>But then they realised that some links may be "messed" up due to that.
13:42[~]Sacro pockets Prof_Frink's chips
13:43[~]Prof_Frink --> chippie
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13:57<svip>Crisps or chips?
13:58<Eddi|zuHause2>!calc ibase=16;13BE46
13:59<_42_>Eddi|zuHause2: 1293894;
13:59<Greyscale>!calc ibase=2;99
13:59<_42_>Greyscale: 3;
14:00<svip>:P Greyscale
14:00<svip>!calc ibase=12;99
14:00<_42_>svip: 117;
14:00<Eddi|zuHause2>now if i only knew what unit that number represents...
14:00<svip>!calc ibase=12;10
14:00<_42_>svip: 12;
14:00<Eddi|zuHause2>stop abusing the bot...
14:00<svip>Ah, I get it.
14:00<svip>You write in the base you write in.
14:00<svip>And then it outputs in base 11.
14:00<svip>How annoying.
14:01<svip>I want to go to 12.
14:01<svip>Base 10 sucks.
14:01<SpComb>there's no digit 9 in base-2
14:01<svip>Indeed, SpComb.
14:01<svip>But yet it said 3.
14:01<Eddi|zuHause2>that's what obase is used for, svip
14:01<SpComb>it probably sanitized it to 11
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14:01<SpComb>which is 3
14:01<svip>But Google does it better, Eddi|zuHause2.
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14:11<Noldo>\o/ managed to fix some self-inflicted package dependecy knot, maybe I can now install git
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14:20<@peter1138>you must be known
14:20<@peter1138>you've been here a while
14:23<Rubidium>SmatZ: sorry about that
14:25<Prof_Frink>svip: Chips of course
14:25<MarkSlap>Uhm, how can I see which port OTTD is using to the internet?
14:25<svip>Sniff them.
14:25<svip>Get Wireshark.
14:26<@DorpsGek>blathijs: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication and UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound)
14:26<MarkSlap>Hmm, that's a way :p
14:26<MarkSlap>Thanks ^^
14:26<MarkSlap>But i've seen some servers under "Servers" on OTTD-site, and they uses 3980 :o
14:26<MarkSlap>Can you change it?
14:27<Sacro>number of horns on a unicorn acre = 7.7675003 × 1024 US teaspoons per light year
14:27<svip>But either through GUI or recompile.
14:27<svip>The game is open source.
14:27<svip>So everything is changeable.
14:27<MarkSlap>Okey :)
14:27<MarkSlap>I think i'll stick to 3979 :D
14:27<MarkSlap>Thanks ^^
14:28<+glx><svip> But either through GUI or recompile. <-- no GUI setting and no need to recompile, there's a setting in openttd.cfg
14:28<svip>:O Or that.
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14:36<MarkSlap>Anyone who can try to come in to my server and just check if it works?
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14:40<MarkSlap>Didn't think so :D
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14:46<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11022 /trunk/src/water_cmd.cpp: -Fix: the canal border determination did not take oil rigs into consideration.
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14:49<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11023 /trunk/src/player.h: -Fix [FS#1150]: Switching players (using the cheat) crashed on Big Endian machines.
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15:04<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11024 /trunk/src/ (clear_cmd.cpp tree_cmd.cpp water_cmd.cpp): -Fix [FS#1173]: give a more correct error when building some things on tile 0; "Can't build on water" or "Too close to the edge" instead of "Vehicle in the way". Patch by SmatZ.
15:05<Rubidium>SmatZ: that was an interesting list of small bugs ;)
15:06<SmatZ>Rubidium: yes it was, but was rather critical :)
15:06<SmatZ>I spoke about it to Bjarni and glx yesterday
15:08<skidd13>good night
15:08<SmatZ>at least, there are things to import to 0.5 branch :) so 0.5-RC4 will be here sooner
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15:10<SmatZ>Rubidium: I was trying to find some security issues
15:10<SmatZ>I found only some little problems, so there came those bugreports from
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15:50<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11025 /trunk/src/string.h: -Fix: safeguard StrEmpty from calls with NULL.
15:51<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11026 /trunk/src/signs.cpp: -Fix: the name of a sign could sometimes be NULL causing crashes.
15:52<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11027 /trunk/src/ (depot.h vehicle.cpp): -Fix: do not unconditionally assume that a tile has a depot.
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15:59<SmatZ>another small catches, Rubidium :) today was a day of many small bugfixes
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16:01<svip>:O TrueBrain
16:01[~]svip pokes TrueBrain a million times.
16:02<@Bjarni>that might be a bit too much :p
16:02<Rubidium>now you've broken TrueBrain :(
16:02<@Bjarni>like 999.999 times too much
16:02<TrueBrain>@kick svip me kicks svip one time
16:02|-|svip kicked [#openttd] DorpsGek [me kicks svip one time]
16:03|-|svip [] has joined #openttd
16:03<svip>Anyway, TrueBrain.
16:03<svip>O_O Help fix me hg problem.
16:04<svip>The version I originally had doesn't have the branch option.
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16:04<svip>So I compile new version.
16:04<svip>But each time I put the new version in /usr/bin, it becomes the old version.
16:04<svip>So... the question is.
16:05<svip>Does hg actually search through some lib files to check which version it is or some shizzle?
16:05<TrueBrain>hg == python
16:05<TrueBrain>so touching /usr/bin is a bit useless
16:06<TrueBrain>yes, putting new versions in /usr/bin is useless
16:06<TrueBrain>put them in /usr/lib/python2.N/site-packages/mercurial
16:06<TrueBrain>much more useful
16:06<TrueBrain>as it is a PYTHON application
16:06<TrueBrain>or use the installs cript
16:06<svip>What install script?
16:07<@Bjarni>make install?
16:07<TrueBrain>or else, just a guess: python install
16:07<TrueBrain>but I am sure it is in either INSTALL, or on their webpage ;)
16:07<svip>:D That worked.
16:07<svip>Thanks for the help.
16:07<TrueBrain>np ;) And all that with only common python knowledge :p
16:08<TrueBrain>for all I knew, Mercurial used a completely different system :p
16:17|-|mode/#openttd [+o TrueBrain] by DorpsGek
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16:19|-|[TrueBrain] changed the topic of #openttd: 0.5.2 | Fundraiser 2007/2008 - Support OpenTTD, donate today:
16:21|-|MrBrrr [] has joined #openttd
16:21<MrBrrr>hey all!
16:21<@TrueBrain>hi MrBrrr
16:21<svip>MrBrrr seems happy.
16:21<MrBrrr>TGIF :)
16:22<svip>More acronyms?
16:22<svip>When will it stop!?
16:25<MrBrrr>Got a question, what does the bool mode affect in static void TrainLocoHandler(Vehicle *v, bool mode)?
16:26<svip>It's wither or not the mode is true.
16:26<MrBrrr>What mode would that be?
16:27<svip>Nobody knows!
16:27<MrBrrr>EEEK :(
16:28|-|Smoovious [] has joined #openttd
16:28<@TrueBrain>That is not true svip
16:28<@TrueBrain>anyway, MrBrrr, just follow 'mode' yourself in the code
16:28<MrBrrr>But I'm lazy :(
16:28<Smoovious>and we're not?
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16:29<@TrueBrain>MrBrrr: we are _not_ here to pave the road for you :)
16:29<lag>hey, just donated towards openttd, great program keep up the good work :)
16:30<Smoovious>just the painting of the lines
16:30<MrBrrr>Meanies :(
16:30<@TrueBrain>tnx lag, we will try :)
16:31|-|mode/#openttd [-o TrueBrain] by DorpsGek
16:31<TrueBrain>I hate having +o :p
16:31<TrueBrain>gives me too much power :)
16:34<Smoovious>I'll take it instead if it bothers you so much :D
16:34<TrueBrain>@op Smoovious
16:34|-|mode/#openttd [+o Smoovious] by DorpsGek
16:34<TrueBrain>@deop Smoovious
16:34|-|mode/#openttd [-o Smoovious] by DorpsGek
16:34<TrueBrain>you had your chance
16:34<Smoovious>would give me an even # of o's
16:35<Smoovious>welp... I got 2 more days tops available to tinker with my chat script for about 5 weeks...
16:36<Smoovious>if you or someone else has an opportunity to critique it further... .. .
16:36<TrueBrain>Smoovious: you really don't make any sense
16:37<Smoovious>Monday morning I leave for Tulsa to start company training with a trucking company... I won't be b ack home for 5 weeks...
16:38<Smoovious>aand if there is anything else you guys think needs changing in my chat script FS#532, this weekend is my last opportunity to do so for a while
16:38<TrueBrain>ah, that makes it more clear :p
16:38<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: [FS#532] Patch (sev: Very Low, prio: Normal, status: Assigned): 'Chat Messages: set # of seconds before chat dissapears', by Smoovious -
16:38<Smoovious>part of the patch was allready comitted...
16:39<Smoovious>which basicallly just renamed some things to better seperate them from text effects
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16:56<TrueBrain>Smoovious: I wish I had the time to review it for you, but I don't...
16:56<TrueBrain>and we will miss you those 5 weeks :(
16:57[~]Smoovious snorts, "yeah, right. :P"
16:57<TrueBrain>at least you talk :p
16:57<Smoovious>sometimes, way more than I should
16:58<TrueBrain>same here :p
16:58<@Bjarni>Smoovious: we will surely miss you
16:58<Smoovious>anyways, the plan is to get a laptop as soon as I can, and then I can hop on and do some coding during the times I'm not allowed to be driving...
16:58<@Bjarni>a whole month....
16:58<@Bjarni>how can it take a whole month to learn driving those things?
16:58<Smoovious>yeah... been setting up my computer for remote login, so I may luck out and be able to pop in for a few here and there
16:59<@Bjarni>I mean, I guess you will do little else
16:59<Smoovious>well, it doen't... I already spent 2 weeks learning to drive enuf for my license... the first week with the company will be classroom, learning the paperwork and procedures, and the other 4 weeks on the road with a trainer... may be shorter, depends...
17:00<Smoovious>I'll be d oing alal the driving tho
17:00<Smoovious>its flatbed work, so I got a lot more to learn yet... the driving school doesn't cover flatbeds
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17:03<Wolf01>i think there's a bug with the oil rigs, maybe is due to the grf i loaded, but they don't produce oil :/
17:06<@Bjarni>so the well ran dry :(
17:07<Smoovious>its a design feature to make them more like the original TTD
17:08<Wolf01>no, the owners are selling air... the oil production is specified in the rig window... but no oil is coming in my tankers
17:09<Wolf01>the same for oil wells
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17:12<Wolf01>can somebody try it before i'll open a bug in the tracker? i use UKRS, TTRSv3.x, AV8, and some newstation and other eyecandy sets
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17:29<Rubidium>Wolf01: is it only with oil?
17:29<Wolf01>seem so
17:29<Wolf01>with passengers and iron ore it works
17:30<Smoovious>iron ore? from a rig?
17:30<Wolf01>maybe other industries can have problems?
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17:31<svip>That is a funny name.
17:32<TrueBrain>hi jow
17:32<jow>i have an issue with the latest ottd version (r11024)
17:32<TrueBrain>which is?
17:33<svip>That is not the latest.
17:33<svip>r11027 is out.
17:33<jow>yeah, ic, it was the latest some hours ago :)
17:33<TrueBrain>jow: please ignore svip and continue :)
17:34<jow>yes, i have sucessfully compiled the trunk and tried to run a game
17:34<jow>the problem is, the vehicles get no cargo
17:34<svip>O_O Hm.
17:34<Wolf01>ok, so is a bug
17:34<jow>okay, shall i file on in flyspray?
17:35<TrueBrain>Rubidium: I think you can be of a bit more help here? :)
17:35<TrueBrain>jow: clean game? As in: no patches?
17:35<Wolf01>the stations which already have cargo will continue to produce cargo
17:35<TrueBrain>jow: any grfs loaded?
17:35<jow>first i had some grfs loaded but after having this issue i wiped out my entrie ~/.openttd
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17:36<jow>still no success
17:36<jow>tried the current nightly too, same results
17:36<Rubidium>argh... annoying crap
17:36<jow>can i help you somehow to debug this
17:37<TrueBrain>jow: any grfs loaded?
17:37<TrueBrain>wrong window to press up and enter
17:37<jow>TrueBrain, no none
17:38<TrueBrain>sorry jow, I pressed the wrong buttons here ;)
17:38<svip>Well jow is apparently right.
17:38<jow>oh, np this happens to me all the time :D
17:38<svip>They *do* receive no cargo.
17:38<TrueBrain>of course he is, why wouldn't he?
17:38<svip>:/ Hey hey.
17:38<svip>Nothing wrong in testing that is.
17:39<TrueBrain>I agree
17:39<jow>is svip your chatbot? *hehe*
17:39<TrueBrain>I wish we could write a chatbot that good
17:39<TrueBrain>or that annoying, for that matter
17:39<Rubidium>problem is that I tried to fix some bug this morning, with this as collateral damage due to the fact that I misread the state of a station during debugging this morning
17:40<TrueBrain>happens to all of us
17:40<Wolf01>and wasn't i right? i spent more than half of my cash to purchase a refinery and i can't get oil for it!
17:41<Rubidium>but it seems like I keep messing up the whole "when does station need to get cargo from industries" thing
17:42<Rubidium>over *and* over again :(
17:42<TrueBrain>someone has to! :)
17:42<TrueBrain>then people appreciate it more when it works :)
17:42<TrueBrain>then people appreciate it more when it works :)
17:42<TrueBrain>wrong window AGAIN
17:42<TrueBrain>(see, I have it too :p)
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17:43<jow>hmm okay, im not a C(++) coder but i tried to read through the changelogs in your trac but haven't found some obvious change so far that might be the cause of the bug
17:43<Wolf01>ok, good work to fix it, and good night people :)
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17:46<jow>Rubidium: so you have an idea what might be the cause?
17:47<TrueBrain>jow: he does
17:47<TrueBrain>give him a bit of time :)
17:47<jow>ah, okay
17:49<Rubidium>well, I know what causes it, but I've got no real idea how to (nicely) solve it
17:49<jow>btw, you have done a nice work with the game so far
17:49<jow>it's amazing :)
17:50<TrueBrain>good to hear you like it :)
17:50<jow>have just read your fundraiser page
17:51<jow>i don't like (and use) paypal but like to doate some euros ayways
17:51<jow>have read one should contact orudge for details with bank transfer
17:51<TrueBrain>Yup, he handles all the donations
17:52<TrueBrain>He is out of town till tomorrow though
17:53<jow>okay, so i'll try to ask him later here
17:53<TrueBrain>or email him: owen at owenrudge dot net
17:53<jow>that's even better, thank you :)
17:53<TrueBrain>no, thank you :)
17:55<jow>unfortunatly my ips's mail server is down right now *argh* >:|
17:56<jow>i'll try tomorrow
17:57<TrueBrain>why do bugs always hide when you try to squash them...
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18:02<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11028 /trunk/src/player_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#1177]: crash when having the Finance window opened of the player you are cheating to.
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18:10<jow>i have another question too, airplanes in the trunk versions are flying pretty fast compared to the speed in the 0.5.x series of the game... is this a wanted behavior?
18:11<TrueBrain>yes; we (finally) matched the speed of trains with the speed of airplanes
18:11<TrueBrain>if a plane now goes 500 km/h, and a train too, they move equally fast
18:11<TrueBrain>in 0.5 this doesn't hold
18:11<svip>o_o FANTASTIC!
18:11<svip>That appears like a wanted behaviour.
18:12<jow>ah cool, i was just curious about this
18:12<ln->which one weighs more, one kilogram of feathers or one kilogram of iron?
18:13<TrueBrain>ln-: in the past, according to OpenTTD: the feathers
18:15<MrBrrr>but doesn't that make airplanes a bit too profitable?
18:16<svip>Not really.
18:17<svip>They are still expensive.
18:17<TrueBrain>and they already made an insane amount of money
18:17<TrueBrain>now it is just a tiny bit more :p
18:24<MrBrrr>Is it normal that cities no longer generate passengers?
18:24<TrueBrain>no; a bug, is being worked on as we speak
18:25<MrBrrr>What an odd bug.
18:25<jow>from what i understood so far it's a generic cargo producer -> station bug
18:26<jow>that should affect passengers too i think
18:27<TrueBrain>MrBrrr: it happens with trunk development :)
18:27<MrBrrr>Gotta love it ;)
18:30<CIA-3>OpenTTD: glx * r11029 /trunk/src/music/win32_m.cpp: -Fix [FS#1164]: win32 midi doesn't stop when closing openttd
18:31<svip>Is that why music doesn't work on Linux?
18:31<+glx>svip needs glasses
18:31<svip>No, glx.
18:31<svip>You said Win32 midi.
18:31<svip>And there is no midi on Linux.
18:31<svip>So if the music uses midi, it'd make sense for the music not to work on Linux.
18:31<+glx>there is but you need an external program
18:32<+glx>and yes the music is in midi format
18:32<svip>midi sucks.
18:32<svip>Do something about that.
18:32<svip>Like ogg.
18:32<+glx>original files are midi files
18:33<MrBrrr>midi sucks? blasphemy
18:33<+glx>we can't convert them
18:33<svip>You can't? Or you _can't_?
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19:10<Smoovious>midi and ogg just aren't comparable as music file types
19:11<Smoovious>midis are just an instruction set for how to play the music... ogg is a recording
19:11<svip>But no one uses midis any more.
19:11<Smoovious>yes they do
19:11<svip>I mean on a serious level.
19:11<Smoovious>so do I
19:12<Sacro>midis ftw
19:13<Smoovious>midis didn't even originate wiith computers, but with electric keyboards
19:14<Smoovious>and personally, I won't buy a sound card without excellent, programmable, midi support
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19:42<MrBrrr>Aye Aye!
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19:52<svip>In order to check for which tool is selected.
19:52<svip>I need to make some sort check function.
19:52<svip>But also make it public the functions that _place_proc refers to.
19:52<svip>So I can compare them.
19:52<svip>Unless of course there is another way to check what something points at.
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20:16<@Belugas>[19:34] <svip> You can't? Or you _can't_? <--- the music is not our property, but still Atari (or whoever has the rights). So if we convert them to something else, it means we are manipulating original and copyright material.
20:16<@Belugas>therefor, cannot touch nor convert the music
20:16<Sacro>not even whistle it on the bus?
20:17<@Belugas>but we would welcome all the artists who could donate any piece of good and in-the-style type of musice :)
20:17<@Belugas>and yes, why not, recording of Sacro's whistling :)
20:18<Sacro>i have the tt music on my phone
20:18<Sacro>i have Broomers Rag when i recieve a call
20:18<Sacro>and the TTDX theme for my alarm
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20:21<@Belugas>not as hooked :D
20:22<@Belugas>alhough my cell phone rings with the sound of a steam engine entering a station, with whistle and steeam release :)
20:22<@Belugas>plus the tracks clickering
20:27<_Ben_>If people play back the music on instruments, but the sheet music is made from the midi, would that still be copyright to atari? (or whoever..)
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20:32<Sacro>_Ben_: yes
20:33<_Ben_>hmm, how to artists usually get away with doing covers?
20:33<Sacro>Fair use
20:33<Sacro>or they pay royalties
20:34<@Belugas>or they make enough modifications that it is almost a different song, such as the lawyers could not prove it is the same.
20:35<@Belugas>difference between inspired and copied, i guess :)
20:36<_Ben_>hmm, if you are playing it on an instrument then it can only be inspired, as the original method was manually entered
20:36<_Ben_>what about just switching the key to a perfect 4th of the original. Almost the same, but not a single note in common!
20:37<@Belugas>progressin is still the same
20:37<@Belugas>transposition is not a new song
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20:37<@Belugas>what about getting a keyboard ang get inspired :D
20:37<_Ben_>I have a keyboard
20:38<@Belugas>my stuff is only on guitar, and i can't finish a damn song i've composed
20:38<@Belugas>you do? nice :)
20:38<@Belugas>in that case, we may start to replace the files :D
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20:39<_Ben_>I can play the TT theme song, although I don't have a convincin claranet midi, although my sister plays claranet but I dought I could convince her to play TT music!
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20:45<_Ben_>If an artist rights sheet music, its not illegal to sell a recording of that being played is it? Or is that different as you buy that right when paying for the sheet music?
20:46<@Belugas>i do not know... it may depends on what you wnat to do, i guess
20:46<@Belugas>as for the sound of claranet, weel... to bad :)
20:46<@Belugas>maybe we need some new music style ;)
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20:51<@Belugas>it has to be hem...
20:52<@Belugas>with good rythm,
20:52<@Belugas>something joyfull
20:52<_Ben_>christmas carols...
20:56<_Ben_>hmm well structured jazz is kinda that, although that is the original style is it not?
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21:43<Eddi|zuHause2><_Ben_> hmm, how to artists usually get away with doing covers? <- here is an institution [in germany that's called GEMA] that gathers money from all performing artists and gives it to the writers of the music. there is a similar institution for playing back recordings, which pays to the artists that recorded it
21:44<_Ben_>Do you know how long music holds copyright?
21:44<Eddi|zuHause2>like anything else, death of the author + 70 years [in europe]
21:45<_Ben_>hmm tricky to get around that one
21:46<Eddi|zuHause2>means you are free to play mozart or beethoven ;)
21:46<Sacro>so we need to kill CS
21:46<Sacro>and then wait 70 years
21:46<_Ben_>somehow I don't think TT players would see that as a suitable equivilent
21:46<Eddi|zuHause2>chances are, CS had absolutely nothing to do with the music :p
21:47<Sacro>Simon Broomhall then
21:47<_Ben_>well we could do some scott joplin, as locomotion has
21:51<_Ben_>If the original TT music is recorded from real instruments and distributed, I asume that wouldn't be a crime if it released under a leicence that inshores it remains free, as it's the profiting that would be the crime right?
21:54<Eddi|zuHause2>i don't think that is going to work...
21:56<Eddi|zuHause2>the laws (at least in germany) are a little more liberal with music than with software, i.e. you are allowed to make private copys of music and give them to family and close friends (as long as it does not involve circumventing copy protection)... but afaik that does not include non-profit public distribution
21:57<_Ben_>dam the law. Always getting in my way
21:57<Eddi|zuHause2>(note that it also does not include "friends" you "meet" over "filesharing programs" :p)
21:59<_Ben_>Although the music is devirved from a copyrighted origin if you were to transfer midi to sheet and then play it on instruments, the actually music you have has required a person/people to add a great deal of there own work to it in order to get the music to the finished state, so I think that is quite unfair that it remains copyrighed to the author of the midi
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22:00<Eddi|zuHause2>it's not necessarily the author of the midi, it's the composer of the music, which might or might not be the same person
22:01<_Ben_>In TT I asume it is the same person?
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22:02<Eddi|zuHause2>i have no idea... but creating a midi from sheet music is usually not a "creative work" in the sense of copyright law...
22:03<_Ben_>yeah, I was refering to the reading and playing of an instrument that is creative
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22:38<Smoovious>making a midi from sheet music is an awful way to make a midi file anyways
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23:23<Red>$20 heading your way.
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---Logclosed Sat Sep 01 00:00:37 2007