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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-09-11

---Logopened Tue Sep 11 00:00:37 2007
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04:05<Chris82>good morning
04:06<Chris82>MSVC has these two warnings when compiling current trunk (11087)
04:07<Chris82>it's from the use advanced vehicle list patch for others and see loading indicators for others patch
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04:34<Chris82>this is supposed to say if (( < 10) || ( < 10)) { ... "if rightlicked" ...can I somehow make this if ctrl + rightclick?
04:35<SmatZ>if _ctrl_pressed
04:35<Chris82>thx :)
04:35<SmatZ>np :)
04:35<Chris82>otherwise I can't use rightclick map moving anymore when using the show catchment area with rightclick patch
04:36<SmatZ>mouse has too few buttons to fit all the functions I would like :)
04:38<Chris82>well there are 5 button mouses but I assume even that is not enough hehe
04:39<SmatZ>on MACs, you may have problem when the right-click emulation is done via ctrl+click
04:43<ln->but not in openttd
04:43<ln->by default
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04:54<Chris82>this: if (_ctrl_pressed && ( < 10) || ( < 10)) {
04:55<Chris82>does not do what I want it does something even better :D
04:55<Chris82>now right click on a station will show the catchment area
04:55<Chris82>and rightclick elsewhere will allow browsing the map
04:55<Chris82>bad hack *g*
04:56<Chris82>ctrl is necessary for neither, although the code says something different I think
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08:18<Sacro`>rawr >:C
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08:48<St|off>Is there any easy ways to find out the ingame console command for different patch settings? The setting I want (select town-road layout) isn't on the wiki
08:51<@Belugas>is there a help command somewhere?
08:52<St|off>Yeah, there is a list patches one, but it doesn't show all avalible.
08:52<+glx>patch town_layout
08:53<St|off>thank you
08:53<+glx>usually it's patch <name of setting as in openttd.cfg>
08:54<St|off>Aha, good to know. I have been guessing until now... :)
08:56<frosch123>Does anyone has a oppinion about
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08:56<frosch123>Discussing with someone on the other side of the world, is kind of ...
08:57<@Belugas>on what do you need an opinion, frosch123?
08:57<frosch123>The handling of prop 0D
08:58<frosch123>TTDP does not care about that
08:58<frosch123>Should we stay compatible there, or do our own thing?
09:07<@Belugas>the idea of extending the specs on industry/tiles is not a bad idea as such
09:07<@Belugas>but i don't think we are in position to actually suggest anyting
09:07<@Belugas>right now, i mean
09:07<frosch123>So we should ignore prop 0D, just like TTDP?
09:08<frosch123>And allow autoslope under the default industries, though they never can be built on slopes?
09:10<@Belugas>they ignore it??
09:10<@Belugas>it might be why our implementation is broken up then :(
09:10<frosch123>They ignore it on autoslope
09:10<@Belugas>ho... you mean during autoslope..
09:10<@Belugas>yeah :)
09:10<frosch123>What ist broken?
09:11<@Belugas>i cannot make newindustries work correctly
09:11<@Belugas>there are a lot of callbacks that return the wrong values
09:11<@Belugas>tbus failing or giving wrong behaviour
09:12<@Belugas>mostly during creation of the industries and during animations too
09:12<@Belugas>ECSWoods is a pretty good exemple of failure
09:12<@Belugas>but back to topics...
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09:12<@Belugas>so should we ignore prop D for autoslop...
09:13<@Belugas>the reflex I have is to say if ttdpatch ignores it, so should we.
09:13<frosch123>What bothers me about ignoring it, is that you can terraform the land to a slope, the industry would have never been built on.
09:13<@Belugas>but there is a voice in my head who asks "why do thert ingore it?"
09:14<frosch123>Autoslope was coded before newindustries?
09:14<@Belugas>maybe, dunno. Or maybe by someone who was not aware of the implications
09:15<@Belugas>the problem of using prop 0D is that usrs from patch realm would find our imoplementaion like a bug and complain
09:15<@Belugas>but that should not be a big show stopper,
09:15<@Belugas>both projects have differences
09:16<DaleStan>I don't think so. My guess is that Oskar wanted autoslope to be halfway decently powerful. And if you don't want terraforming to work, well ... CB 3C exists for a reason.
09:16<DaleStan>Though I said before, it does need a little more info to be useful.
09:16<frosch123>Oh, DaleStan is here
09:17<frosch123>No need to wait 24 hours for a reply :)
09:17<@Belugas>lol :)
09:19[~]Belugas is checking if cb 3C is in code or not
09:19<frosch123>in my patch: yes
09:19<DaleStan>Not to mention that the vast majority of current industries only use bit 5 of prop 0D anyway.
09:19<frosch123>untestes though
09:20<frosch123>By the way, is there a difference in setting it to 0x10 or 0x0F?
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09:22<DaleStan>I don't think so. In fact, I think 10 is equivalent to all of 05, 07, 0A, 0B, 0D, 0E, 0F. (05 and 0A are the minimum-bits-set values)
09:23[~]Belugas agrees
09:23[~]Belugas is checking frosch123's work a little closer
09:24[~]frosch123 hides
09:24<@Belugas>you should not :)
09:25<DaleStan>... Oh. Of course, 10 is also equivalent to 11..1F. But that should go without saying.
09:26<frosch123>I simply wrote GetIndustryTileCallback and removed the "// not implemented"
09:30<@Belugas>that a little more :)
09:30<frosch123>Ok, to sum up: I remove the new newgrf features from my patch, and imitate TTDP behaviour with industries.
09:30<@Belugas>and yes, 10 is JackOfAllTrade
09:33<@Belugas>not all the newgrf stuff needs to be romoved ;)
09:33<frosch123>But I think the newhouses behavior can stay, i.e. checking the 'can only be built on flat land'-flag.
09:33<frosch123>what stuff?
09:33<frosch123>is there anything special?
09:35<@Belugas>var 63, 69, CBID_INDUSTRY_AUTOSLOPE...
09:36<frosch123>63, 69 are the unofficial new. We just decided to slate them.
09:37<@Belugas>wy do i have the strange feeling that i need to concentrate a bit more on irc than on work@work ?
09:38<@Belugas>so yes, indeed, wipe them out
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09:39<frosch123>ok, fine. Now I have a decision.
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09:47<frosch123>DaleStan: Do TTDP's industries not terraform on creation?
09:49<DaleStan>If they do, it's not done or controlled by NFO.
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09:51<frosch123>Probably. Perhaps it was added to OTTD with TerraGenesis patch.
09:51<Rubidium>s/Probably. Perhaps i/I/
09:52<Eddi|zuHause3>i thought that was limited to land generation, not ingame placement
09:53<Rubidium>that's true too
09:53<frosch123>When I manually found a industry near a slope, it automatically terraforms
09:53<Rubidium>hmm, maybe the terraforming kicks in then too (did think it didn't)
09:53<frosch123>but only to flat land
09:56[~]Belugas recalls seeing some strange slopping from pikka's basic set
09:57<DaleStan>The quarries want a very particular and sometimes hard-to-find slope.
09:59<Eddi|zuHause3>i think the terraforming in TGP was very basic and only designed to create a rectangular flat area
10:00<frosch123>industry_cmd: if (!custom_shape_check) CheckIfCanLevelIndustryPlatform(tile, DC_EXEC, it, type);
10:02<@TrueBrain>yeah! Streaming XViD to XBox360 via Linux :) Finally!
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10:05<@Belugas>the quarries are running fine, DaleStan. IT's more stuff like engineer yard having some tiles raised by a foundation...
10:05<@Belugas>you see, stuff like that
10:06<@Belugas>REALLY bothering
10:06<frosch123>Does C short-circuit boolean evaluations?
10:07<@Belugas>and i still have to find a way to avoid assigning slot 255 to a new industry tile... haven't figured out a nice way yet
10:09<frosch123>I.e. does "if (false && Proc())" call Proc()?
10:09<Eddi|zuHause3>C has lazy evaluation
10:11<@Belugas>i think it fill fail on first fall condition
10:11<frosch123>if (!custom_shape_check && _patches.land_generator == LG_TERRAGENESIS && _generating_world && !CheckIfCanLevelIndustryPlatform(tile, 0, it, type)) return NULL;
10:12<frosch123>Then this looks wrong together with above line
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10:12<frosch123>It does the success-test/cost-estimation only during world generation, but the DC_EXEC is always done.
10:15<@Belugas>so you're saying that somehow, the conditions are not right
10:16<frosch123>Either both should be done only during world generation, or both should be done always.
10:16<frosch123>... I think.
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10:18<@Belugas>first call is done with flag 0, so no execution
10:19<@Belugas>second one, in (if (flags & DC_EXEC)) actually performs it
10:19<frosch123>Yes, but first one returns, if it fails.
10:21<frosch123>So while the world is not being created, some terraforming is done, and then it can fail.
10:21<frosch123>Not important though.
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10:27<@Bjarni>Sacro`: you moron
10:27<frosch123>Hmm, have to test it, when at home. Perhaps it can trigger an assertion or desync...
10:27<@Bjarni>searching for me while I'm doing serious stuff
10:28<@Belugas>on the other hand...
10:28<@Belugas>i wonder...
10:28<@Bjarni>don't you think I haven't got better things to do than to hang around here waiting for you?
10:28<frosch123>[17:27] <Bjarni> searching for me while I'm doing serious stuff <- serious stuff, what are you coding for OTTD? :)
10:28<@Belugas>this whole test is in fact typicall to ottd
10:28<@Belugas>it is not done on ttdp
10:29<@Belugas>problem we have is tgp
10:29<@Bjarni>frosch123: actually I have been at uni all day
10:29<@Bjarni>so no time for coding (at least so far)
10:29<@Belugas>the shape of the land can be quite more problematic, since we have a hell of a lot more "noise" possibility
10:30<frosch123>Wasn't there a discussion in the TTDP forum with RickK?
10:30<@Belugas>maybe.. cannot remember
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10:37<@Belugas>thanks for pointers
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10:46<@Belugas>isn't it the customcheck stuff?
10:47<@Belugas>i should go back to work@work :(
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11:29<@Bjarni>hi Wolf01
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12:01<ThePenguin>Where do I set the revision number in the SVN? What file is it?
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12:03<Eddi|zuHause3>./configure --help
12:04<ThePenguin>I'm on windows
12:04<Eddi|zuHause3>that doesn't stop you :p
12:04<Wolf01>do you have tortoiseSVN installed?
12:04<+glx>there's a compile flag for that
12:04<+glx>what compiler?
12:05<Wolf01>to check the revision you can right click on the trunk folder and then properties->svn
12:05<ThePenguin>Microsoft Visual C++ 2008 Express Edition
12:05<Wolf01>then follow their indications
12:06<ThePenguin>no I mean in the source code instead of it being OpenTTD norev000 make it OpenTTD rev1000
12:06<+glx>no need to change the source code, you just need to add a flag in projects settings
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12:10<ThePenguin>which flag is it?
12:10<ThePenguin>I'm really new to C++ and compiling
12:12<Noldo>don't worry about the norev
12:12<Eddi|zuHause3>that kind of information really should go into the wiki
12:13<+glx>Eddi|zuHause3: if not used carefully we can get many desync report
12:14<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah, it should come with a big fat warning, of course
12:15<Eddi|zuHause3>but it's the same with norev000 being able to join any server...
12:15<+glx>any norev000 server IIRC
12:15<Rubidium>yup... only norev000 servers can be joined by norev000 clients
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12:18<Nickman>hi all
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12:24<Noldo>Rubidium: I need your opinnion
12:25<Rubidium>get a proper spell checker <- that kind of opinion?
12:25<Noldo>I noticed your comments on FS1114, I can make the changes you proposed, but I would also like to make Money into class
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12:29<Noldo>The question is if you would rather commit fixed FS1114 with Money the way it is now or first do the Money changes and then get back to CommandCost
12:30<Noldo>not implying that either is the certain future
12:33<Rubidium>better idea: make a templated class for overflow safe calculations and make Money an instantiation of that template and then use money in CommandCost
12:34<Rubidium>that way we can reuse the overflow safe calculations everywhere without the need to "misuse" Money or CommandCost for it
12:34<Noldo>good idea
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12:37<Noldo>is it enough that it works only for signed values?
12:39<Rubidium>you can easily make it work for unsigned values too (I think)
12:44<Noldo>how can I get the max/min values of given type compile time ?
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12:45<+glx>there are #define IIRC
12:45<Rubidium>the "user" has to supply them?
12:45<Rubidium>OverflowSafeInt<int64, INT64_MIN, INT64_MAX>
12:45<Noldo>glx: given as in template
12:46<Noldo>that even makes it more reusable
12:51<Noldo>I need to have "OverflowSafeInt operator+(int64 a, OverflowSafeInt b);
12:52<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r11088 /trunk/src/ (economy.cpp vehicle_gui.cpp): -Fix (r11063, r11067): MSVC warning C4804: '>' : unsafe use of type 'bool' in operation
12:53<+glx>nice lag CIA-1
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12:55<Noldo>helpers.hpp is a good place for this?
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13:28<Progman>are the struct with functions are going to be converted to classes?
13:29<blathijs>Progman: There isn't really any difference
13:30<Progman>thats my point
13:32<Rubidium>the only difference is scope
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13:39<blathijs>Rubidium: scope? You mean default visibility?
13:39<blathijs>Progman: So, there wouldn't be any "converting" needed, just changing of syntax for consistency :-)
13:40<blathijs>Progman: And I don't know if we're gonna do that, perhaps when somebody feels like it :-)
13:40<Rubidium>yes, meant visibility
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14:16<Progman>bug or feature? if you'r running in fast-mode, it runs faster if there is less visible (of the game-window)
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14:19<@Belugas>neither bug nor feature. normal logic
14:19<@Belugas>less to paint less work to do
14:19<@Belugas>i think
14:19<Wolf01>less load for your computer
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14:22<Progman>but I espect the game just runs N times faster, not faster if there is nothing to draw
14:22<Rubidium>Progman: then you are flawed
14:22<Rubidium>or at least your expectation
14:22<Rubidium>it runs as fast as it can possibly go
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14:42<Tefad>Progman: remember swallow mode in simcity?
14:42<Tefad>it just runs the game full throttle.
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14:43<Tefad>agreed there could probably be a patch for straight N multipliers of speed.. but i doubt anyone cares enough to add it, or if it would be accepted as a useful feature
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14:57<MrBrrr>Which function would be a good starting point to start reading on the load/unload functionality of trains?
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14:59<MrBrrr>Thanks ;)
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16:28<lenmx4more>some there ? :D
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16:29<Rubidium>depends what "there" is
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16:31<lenmx4more>i got one question about making a game on the internet with openttd :D
16:31<nairan_zzZZ>just ask =)
16:31<lenmx4more>when i open a game on the internet my friend cant see my game @ the list : /
16:32<nairan_zzZZ>did he choose the option advertise server?
16:33<lenmx4more>i thought it could be the firewall
16:33<Rubidium>@openttd ports
16:33<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication and UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound)
16:34<lenmx4more>hm nice i try out :D
16:35<Rubidium>as long as your server does not show up at you haven't configured your firewall properly
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16:56<nairan_zzZZ>ini: trailing characters at end of setting 'advanced vehicle list'
16:56<nairan_zzZZ>ini: trailing characters at end of setting 'loading indicators'
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16:56<nairan_zzZZ>i get that at start and after ending ottd.
16:56<Rubidium>either remove those lines from your config file or modify the settings for those patches in-game
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16:58<nairan_zzZZ>hmm i dont find those options in config ingame.
16:59<Rubidium>they're both under patches -> interfaces
17:02<nairan_zzZZ>nm deleting those 2 lined in the cfg fix it
17:04<nairan_zzZZ>ok found it there too =) thanks.
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18:24<wleader>anyone got a few minutes to help me figure out a problem with my code.
18:26<wleader>I am working on a patch that required me to call GrowTown in town_cmd.cpp from code in clear_cmd.cpp. The problem is that GrowTown isn't in town.h like other functions in town_cmd.cpp. But when I add it to town.h, I get a a linker error: LNK2019: unresolved external symbol. I have to admit that I'm not really experienced enough to know why or what to do about it.
18:29<ln->remove "static" from the function definition, if it is there.
18:29<wleader>It is there, and I did remove it. I got a similar error, but I don't recall exactly, let me try and see what happens again.
18:30<ln->the "static" can't be there, that's for sure.
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18:30<wleader>error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol "bool __fastcall GrowTown(struct Town *)" (?GrowTown@@YI_NPAUTown@@@Z) referenced in function "class CommandCost __fastcall CmdPurchaseLandArea(unsigned int,unsigned int,unsigned int,unsigned int)" (?CmdPurchaseLandArea@@YI?AVCommandCost@@IIII@Z)
18:31<wleader>I really wish that meant something to me.
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18:35<wleader>any other ideas?
18:35<+glx>it's a linking error
18:36<wleader>just to be sure I cleaned, and rebuilt, with the same results.
18:38<SmatZ>did you remove static at town_cmd.cpp: 1190 and : 600 ?
18:39<wleader>Ah, I missed the one at 600.
18:39<wleader>Build: 2 succeeded, 0 failed, 1 up-to-date, 0 skipped
18:39<wleader>Time to test the changes.
18:39<wleader>Thanks ln, glx, SmatZ.
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19:17<wleader>Cool, the first part of my patch is working. If you try to purchase land a tile that has a town building on it, it clears it, buys it, and grows a new town tile somewhere else.
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19:17<wleader>Its also got the cost substantially higher, and a reduced rating cost.
19:18<wleader>So now I need to do the same thing with road tiles.
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19:54<wleader>Cool version 1 of my town restructuring patch is done. Anyone interested having a quick look over it?
19:55<Eddi|zuHause3>i'm not sure if i could gather the sense of that patch...
19:55<wleader>what do you mean?
19:58<Eddi|zuHause3>i'll rephrase that: what are you actually trying to achieve?
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20:01<wleader>The base program, you can use eminent domain and bulldoze a town tile knocking down builings that way really messes with your town rating.
20:01<wleader>To deal with that you have have to plant trees, wait, bribe, etc.
20:02<wleader>But why not just make the property owner an offer they can't refuse.
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20:02<wleader>if you have the money its just easier to offer the property owner 10 times market value, and overall unhappiness is reduced.
20:02<wleader>So it kind of simulates that sort of situation.
20:05<wleader>its just a faster more reliable way of building in a town.
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20:40<Eddi|zuHause2>my isp is having the hiccups
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20:51<MrBrrr>Try to scare your ISP, always helps with the hiccups.
20:56<Eddi|zuHause2>i don't think the Big Magenta T is that easily scared by a random poor student complaining
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---Logclosed Wed Sep 12 00:00:47 2007