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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-10-13

---Logopened Sat Oct 13 00:00:39 2007
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03:11<elmex_>i've been wondering: can someone recomment a new industry grf pack with train cars that can contain the new cargo?
03:12<elmex_>i've been trying PBI, but i'm unsure which train set to use
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03:30<Prof_Frink>elmex_: I'd be surprised if UKRS didn't work with PBI
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04:55<nairan>hmm in ECS the farms are using only a few fertilizer.
04:55<nairan>a lot less then the industries produce.
05:01<Vikthor>nairan: You know, they are trying to be more enviroment friendly :)
05:02<nairan>heh seems so
05:02<nairan>with one factory i can delive a lot fruitplantations.
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05:46<@Bjarni>is it morning already?
05:47<Tefad>in the us at least
05:47<Tefad>long since passed in europe
05:48<Tefad>morning in the sense of daybreak
05:48<dihedral>put it this way
05:48<dihedral>i just got out of bed
05:49<dihedral>that makes it "morning" for me
05:49<dihedral>!seen skidd13
05:49<_42_>dihedral, skidd13 ( was last seen parting #openttd 16 hours 14 minutes ago (12.10. 18:35), after spending 1 hour 24 minutes there.
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06:03<TrueBrain>sending 5 GiB of data in just several minutes.. I love fast connections :)
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06:17<Eddi|zuHause>if i want to send 5GB fast, i burn them on a DVD+RW, and drive over to the other person :p
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06:19[~]dihedral greets Ammler
06:21<Eddi|zuHause>well, it's the truth :p
06:22<dihedral>what kind of connection do you actually have?
06:22<Eddi|zuHause>DSL Light
06:22<Eddi|zuHause>384 down and 64 up or something
06:22<TrueBrain>100 mbit up, 100 mbit down
06:23<dihedral>are you in a college network TrueBrain ?
06:23<TrueBrain>SurfNet, the student network of The Netherlands
06:23<TrueBrain>100 mbit full duplex over the whole country for all school and universities
06:23<TrueBrain>I love it :)
06:24<Eddi|zuHause>i'm sure you do :p
06:24<dihedral>so is that part of uk's uni network?
06:25<TrueBrain>what part of the Netherlands didn't you get?
06:25<dihedral>well - i for one thing know that uk's uni network has a direkt link to canada
06:25<dihedral>so i thought it could have a link to the netherlands
06:25<TrueBrain>via the AMS-IX, it most likely does
06:26<dihedral>i was thinking more along the lines of a 'direct' connection :-)
06:27<TrueBrain>most likely it doesn't, as it would be a bit redundant :)
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06:28<dihedral>was just curious
06:29<TrueBrain> <- this is how big SurfNet is :p
06:29<TrueBrain>(all fiber-optics)
06:30<dihedral>yes - that
06:30<dihedral>'s similar to the uk uni network :-P
06:30<TrueBrain>I love such networks :)
06:30<dihedral>yes - they are great
06:31<TrueBrain>it makes things like a giant telescope possible :)
06:31<dihedral>do they give you public ip's
06:31<TrueBrain>combining multiple telescopes
06:31<dihedral>and unfirewalled connectiosn? ;-D
06:31<TrueBrain>it required a bit of bandwidth :p
06:31<TrueBrain>we have public IPs, but firewalled
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06:31<TrueBrain>but that is my own uni
06:31<TrueBrain>other unis allow more
06:31<TrueBrain>some less
06:32<TrueBrain>(every uni can control it themself)
06:32<dihedral>what some guys in oxford did
06:32<dihedral>was get together with a few people who were at a unfirewalled college
06:32<dihedral>setup a vpn
06:32<dihedral>and :-D
06:32<dihedral>took weeks until we found out who it was
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07:04<CIA-5>OpenTTD: maedhros * r11254 /trunk/config.lib: -Fix: Link with -lpthread on FreeBSD.
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07:29<dihedral>thee ttd midi files are awsome
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07:30<dihedral>garadeband can read every single instrument from those files :-)
07:31<Sionide>i used to use a midi editor called acoustica, years ago
07:33<dihedral>well - got garadge band on my mac :-)
07:33<dihedral>and i imported the midi file, and it split it up all into software instruments
07:36<dihedral>so i can simply replace any single tone or insturment :-)
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07:40<fjb>Is there a switch to make electrified rail more expensive?
07:41<dihedral>more expensive or inflation
07:42<fjb>More expensive than unelectrified rail.
07:45<Maedhros>not at the moment, no
07:46<fjb>Then I was not too stupid to find it. :-)
07:46<fjb>Would it be hard to implement?
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07:55<julius>does someone speak french ?
07:56<fjb>Je ne pas. :-)
07:56<julius>hmm... I'm trying to understand something with the "train lights" (i don't know the word in english)
07:57<Vikthor>julius: probably you mean "signals"
07:57<fjb>Signals? What is the frensh word?
07:57<julius>that's it
07:57<julius>signalisation :p
07:57<julius>Can you tell me what's wrong with this ? (don't laugh please :p)
07:58<nairan>the singal are at are crossings not in the middle.
07:58<nairan>should be
07:59<fjb>The crossings make all the track a single singnal block. Put the signals at the ends of each track to separete them.
08:00<julius>ok, I try
08:01<nairan>julius lok here there are some good examples.
08:01[~]nairan thinks he had not enouth coffee to wake up.
08:02<julius>ok thanks :)
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08:07<dihedral>hey skidd13
08:07<skidd13>Whats up?
08:09<nairan>hmm i still miss sulphur.
08:10<Phazorx>nairan: sulpher in ECS was fixed by glx in 10235
08:11<@Bjarni><julius> Can you tell me what's wrong with this ? (don't laugh please :p) <-- you are hit with a severe case of real life :P
08:11<@Bjarni>either that or PBS
08:11<@Bjarni>none of those are in OpenTTD :/
08:13<Ailure>that does look somewhat realistic
08:13<fjb>There is no real life in OpenTTD? :-(
08:13<Ailure>but absurd for openTTD
08:13<nairan>i think i got all industries , tourist center , animal farm and tinning farm and touriast center has some lil errors.
08:13<Ailure>You misunderstood how signals works D:
08:14<nairan>i think i got all type of industries but not all cargo.
08:14<Ailure>although that setup would work somewhat with PBS signals
08:15<@Bjarni> <Ailure> that does look somewhat realistic <-- actually not. He used those combined switches and crossings. Those are really expensive so in real life you often use two normal switches after each other. It's way cheaper and easier to maintain, but it use more space
08:15<@Bjarni>two switches are well two switches while a crossing switch is actually 4 switches and they aren't standard. They are custom made each time
08:16<fjb>I always play on ab big map. You can't make realistic looking train stations on an normal map.
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08:20<Phazorx>aer stats broken?
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08:48<nairan>phasor ping
08:49<Eddi|zuHause><Bjarni> <Ailure> that does look somewhat realistic <-- actually not. He used those combined switches and crossings. Those are really expensive so in real life you often use two normal switches after each other. It's way cheaper and easier to maintain, but it use more space <- there are lots of switch-crossings around here
08:52<@Bjarni>Eddi|zuHause: the European railroads are too expensive to maintain for a reason :(
08:53<@Bjarni>another reason is the crossings. Those things are damn expensive as well
08:54<@Bjarni>like £100k to maintain every year
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08:54<@Bjarni>don't ask me why it's so expensive
08:57<@Bjarni>nairan: message for you ;)
08:57<@Bjarni>it works better if you highlight the nick
09:05<Phazorx>and spell it correctly...
09:07<@Bjarni>that too
09:08<fjb>I tried the passenger destination patch the last days. It works good. Did anybody try it in a multiuser game yet?
09:08[~]Sacro staggers into the channel
09:10<Eddi|zuHause>what's the problem to press p<tab>?
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09:10<Phazorx>ph <tab> is more reliable generaly speaking
09:11<Eddi|zuHause>i have seen cases where the first 4 letters were identical...
09:12<fjb>Not possible for me. :-)
09:12<Eddi|zuHause>not counting clan tags
09:12<nairan>bjarn: what message
09:12<Eddi|zuHause>apparently you did not get it :p
09:13<Eddi|zuHause>b<tab> is probably even more difficult
09:14<Ailure>[15:52] <Bjarni> like £100k to maintain every year
09:14<Ailure>[15:52] <Bjarni> EACH!
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09:14<Ailure>[15:52] <Bjarni> don't ask me why it's so expensive
09:14<Ailure>Each what?
09:14<Ailure>Railway piece?
09:14<@Bjarni>road/railroad level crossings
09:14<@Bjarni>you know, those flashing red lights and barriers
09:15<@Bjarni>they are designed in a failsafe way, so whenever something breaks, it's sure to delay a whole lot of trains
09:15<@Bjarni>and it's damn expensive to try to keep it from breaking
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09:19<mcbane>eddi: no reaction =&
09:19<Phazorx>Bjarni: so bridges are cheaper?
09:19<julius>Bjarni, what do you mean by "you are hit with a severe case of real life :P"
09:19<julius>This situation arrives in the real life ? Oo
09:20<@Bjarni>Phazorx: yeah
09:20<+glx>lack of time usually :)
09:20<julius>(i'm a student engeneer, I'm interested in it :D)
09:20<@Bjarni>julius: I meant you placed the signals like real life railroads do, but it creates deadlocks in no time in OpenTTD
09:21<julius>oh ok :) so that's a good point for my futur :p
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09:28<TrueBrain>Phazorx: for the longest time
09:28<TrueBrain>it took way too long to generate them
09:28<Phazorx>TrueBrain: sorry i missed that conversation i guess
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09:28<Phazorx>what is ist based on?
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09:28<TrueBrain>Phazorx: it was never a conversation :p
09:28<TrueBrain>I just disabled it months ago :)
09:28[~]dihedral is exporting his ttd theme music remix
09:28<TrueBrain>you are the first to notice :p
09:28<TrueBrain>says enough ;)
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09:29<Phazorx>more like a month ago, but you sopunded like you have told me that already
09:29<TrueBrain>no, sorry, wasn't ment like that ;)
09:29<Phazorx>once again what is is based on and how you process it ?
09:29<TrueBrain>_42_ collects the logs, psig generates the logs
09:30<Phazorx>why would it take any longer now than before?
09:30<TrueBrain>euh, pish
09:30<TrueBrain>euh, pisg
09:30<TrueBrain>more log-files
09:30<dihedral>psig generates the html
09:30<Phazorx>in what way
09:30<Phazorx>isnt it time based
09:30<TrueBrain>euh: more tlaking
09:30<Phazorx>like weekly
09:30<Phazorx>hmm... time for a +m i guess
09:30<dihedral>it gets slower when the logfiles grow bigger... just like webalizer - though webalizer is a lot faster
09:30<TrueBrain>no, it uses all logs, else it is no fun
09:31<Phazorx>TrueBrain: but cant you cache the data that has been al;ready processed
09:31<TrueBrain>Phazorx: ask pisg
09:31<Phazorx>like most utilities of that kind do
09:31<Phazorx>!seen pisg
09:31<_42_>Phazorx, pisg? hmm... I'm trying to remember... maybe... I'm not sure... no. I don't remember pisg.
09:31<dihedral>that is probably exactly what psig is lacking
09:31<Phazorx>might be a hard one to ask
09:31<TrueBrain>Phazorx: -> pisg
09:32<Phazorx>TrueBrain: i was under impression it has DB backend and only does incrimental logs
09:32<Phazorx>otherwise it's kidna silly
09:32<TrueBrain>just google it
09:33<Phazorx>google doesnt show anything that might suggest it is relevant to log processing
09:34<TrueBrain>first hit
09:34<TrueBrain>I don't see how you can miss it :p
09:34<Phazorx>that's my 1st hit
09:35<Phazorx>Pipeline Simulation Interest Group (PSIG) 2nd
09:35<TrueBrain>you searched for pisg?
09:35<TrueBrain>not psig, pisg
09:35<TrueBrain>pisg already tkaes 2 minutes to make the stats for 2006 of this channel
09:36<TrueBrain>so I guess I have to add a timespan parameter
09:37<TrueBrain>k, now it generates stats based on the last 30 days
09:37<TrueBrain>not very cool, but okay, at least it gives you something :p
09:38<Phazorx>well that's not the way
09:38<TrueBrain>okay, fair is fair: there are 112 MiB of logs :p
09:39<Phazorx>i did a lot of log parsing and stat generation with sites doing 30G per day
09:39<Phazorx>daily stat runs were seconds
09:39<TrueBrain>30 GiB of LOG files a day? doubtful :p
09:39<Phazorx>30GBytes transfers per server
09:39<TrueBrain>my point exactly :)
09:40<TrueBrain>Anyway, feel free to make a pisg alternative
09:40<dihedral>slightly fresher :-P
09:40<TrueBrain>hmm, for some reason _42_ stopped logging channels...
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09:40<Phazorx>Uptime 18 days 12 min 38 s
09:40<Phazorx>Started at 2007-09-25 10:27:10
09:40<Phazorx>absolute (since start)
09:40<Phazorx>Requests 107 Mreq
09:40<Phazorx>Traffic 169.96 Gbyte
09:41<fjb>dihedral: cool.
09:41<TrueBrain>Phazorx: truely, I don't care :p
09:41<TrueBrain>http loggers are completely different from IRC loggers
09:41<Phazorx>well you should take more intereset since it is your project
09:41<Phazorx>and it can be done much smarter
09:41<TrueBrain>excuse me?!
09:41<TrueBrain>are you now here going to tell me what should and should not get my interest? And what is and what is not my project?
09:41<TrueBrain>funny guy
09:42<TrueBrain>but I think you should have this conversation with the author of pisg
09:42<TrueBrain>not with me
09:42<Phazorx>you were doing it for qute a while, and maintating it pretty well :)
09:42<Phazorx>nah i like custom tools
09:42<TrueBrain>so make a custom tool
09:43<Phazorx>perhaps perhaps :)
09:43<TrueBrain>anyway, I think you are very confused
09:43<TrueBrain>as I never did anything custom
09:43<TrueBrain>the stats uses pisg
09:43<TrueBrain>pisg used too much CPU-time, and got disabled
09:45<Phazorx>of cource i am confused... no doubt about that
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09:45<TrueBrain>a weirder thing is, that both my bots stopped logging all channels...
09:46<TrueBrain>or the problem is that I can't count
09:46<TrueBrain>and I think today isn't 13/10/07
09:46<TrueBrain>@kick TrueBrain You stink!
09:48<Phazorx>keep the logs going may be one day i get bored enough :)
09:49<TrueBrain>k, the stats are now updated again
09:49<TrueBrain>with the data of the last 30 days
09:49<Phazorx>now it sounds like i forced ya
09:50<TrueBrain>you did :p
09:53<skidd13>Had anyone of the devs time to have a deeper look at FS1328. (Sorry patch looks so huge, but the changes aren't ;) )
09:56<fjb>What is FS1328?
09:56<TrueBrain>@openttd bugs 1328
09:56<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: [FS#1328] Work in progress (sev: Low, prio: Normal, status: New): 'Unify road/rail GUI', by Benedikt Brüggemeier -
09:56<SpComb>Logs: (old: )
09:56<skidd13>fjb: Its a task in the bug reporting system ->
09:57<fjb>Thank you.
10:02<TrueBrain> <- here Phazorx :p
10:02<TrueBrain>@seen darkvater
10:02<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: I have not seen darkvater.
10:03<TrueBrain>now that is odd...
10:03<TrueBrain>!seen darkvater
10:03<_42_>TrueBrain, darkvater? hmm... I'm trying to remember... maybe... I'm not sure... no. I don't remember darkvater.
10:03<TrueBrain>as the logs say it was 2 days ago..
10:03<Phazorx>TrueBrain: nice
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10:08<fjb>It's really hard to build an efficient station entry. :-(
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10:31<TrueBrain>Phazorx: and you talk too much:
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10:32<Eddi|zuHause>fjb: yes it is...,%2012.%20Mai%201939.png
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10:35<Eddi|zuHause>the most that i miss about PBS is the ability to have presignals who do not pay attention to EVERY exit signal, just the one that matters
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10:40<fjb>Looks good, but there are seperate tracks for each direction.
10:41<fjb>We really need PBS.
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10:41<fjb>Is there a documention (beside the OpenTTD source) how YAPF is working?
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10:42<+glx>YAPF implemens A*
10:42<+glx>with some caching
10:43<fjb>How does it translate tiles into nodes?
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10:44<+glx>I don't know how it's done
10:46<Eddi|zuHause>fjb: each platform can be exited in both direction
10:47<Eddi|zuHause>fjb: afaik, a straight track has a value of 10, and a diagonal track 7 (or 100 and 70, not sure)
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10:50<fjb>Eddi|zuHause: Hm, I missed some Signals. But that station still has some fifficulti when some trains arrive and depart at the same time.
10:52<Eddi|zuHause>i did not say it's perfect
10:52<Eddi|zuHause>i have some serious space restrictions there
10:53<Eddi|zuHause>i'm already lucky to have such a big mountain plateau
10:53<fjb>Space is always an restiction at the usual map sizes...
10:54<+glx>not on flat land
10:54<Eddi|zuHause>flat land is boring
10:54<+glx>but on hilly with transmitter there's more fun :)
10:55<fjb>Yes, I don't understand why so many people are only playing flat land.
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10:57<fjb>I'm looking for a solution for stations that and the line.
10:57<Eddi|zuHause>PS: the "before" state:,%2028.%20Sep%201927.png
10:57<Sacro>dihedral: huge game looks awesome, what binaries are you wanting?
10:58<fjb>Oh, that station was cute. :-)
10:58<Eddi|zuHause>that was before i was routing my freight trains through there
11:00<Eddi|zuHause>the flat land enthusiasts would never have such a river valley:,%208.%20Mai%201931.png
11:02<fjb>That valley need a tourist center...
11:02<fjb>I tend to not destroy to much nature in my games.
11:03<hylje>ottd needs smooth foundations
11:04<Eddi|zuHause>it's quite fun to analyse the signalling on this station:,%2024.%20Dez%201939.png
11:04<Eddi|zuHause>it looks reverse, but it does have its sense ;)
11:04<fjb>Are smoother foundations not under development?
11:05<fjb>I guess I need an hour to understand that station...
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11:06<fjb>Eddi|zuHause: What climate are you playing? Alpine? Arctic?
11:06<Eddi|zuHause>alpine, yes
11:06<TrueBrain>did you know that the nightly archive contains over 15000 files? :p
11:06<SpComb>Eddi|zuHause: but there's serveral places where it could deadlock, assuming you have more than two trains using each station entrance, or some random train gets lost and wanders into that station
11:07<Eddi|zuHause>SpComb: yes, but it is that way to fix the most common deadlock
11:07<Eddi|zuHause>the two passenger trains using the single-track section in front of the station
11:07<Eddi|zuHause>to the right
11:08<Eddi|zuHause>the freight trains work quite well
11:08<Eddi|zuHause>yes, it _could_ deadlock, but it doesn't
11:08<Eddi|zuHause>the presignal system does not allow me to fix all deadlocks
11:09<fjb>My stations always deadlock if they can. :-(
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11:10<fjb>I should try Alpine climate, it looks very interesting.
11:10<Eddi|zuHause>single track sections deadlock the most, i recently had one that deadlocked EVERY time at the same place, i fixed it by adding another switching section at the right place
11:11<TrueBrain> <- if anyone is interested :)
11:11<Eddi|zuHause>fjb: there still are some issues
11:11|-|mode/#openttd [+o TrueBrain] by DorpsGek
11:11|-|mode/#openttd [+nt] by ChanServ
11:11|-|[TrueBrain] changed the topic of #openttd: 0.5.3 | Website: * (DevBlog: blog, Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, NightlyArchive: archive, WIKI: wiki, SVN mailinglist: maillist, Dev-docs: docs, Patches & Bug-reports: bugs) | #openttd.notice for FS + SVN notices | YouTube link == Ban
11:11|-|mode/#openttd [-o TrueBrain] by DorpsGek
11:11<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: the images don't work
11:11<TrueBrain>less bandwidth :p
11:12<TrueBrain>2007 is on, older are on :)
11:13<TrueBrain>hmm, stupid, I forgot to store the mtime...
11:13<TrueBrain>oh well
11:13<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: soon I will create a simple front-end for it :)
11:14<fjb>I always bought the KI when they were out of money. Now I have 26 airports. I never looked at them. I guess I should now. :-)
11:15|-|julius [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:15<fjb>And I guess I have to setup my own subversion repository to play with the OpenTTD source.
11:16<+glx>just use mercurial
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11:20<fjb>mercurial looks interesting...
11:20<Vikthor>or you can try git
11:20<TrueBrain>hg is better
11:20<TrueBrain>Windows friendly
11:21<@Bjarni>hg installed without any problems here. I gave up on git (didn't really try hard though, but it gave odd errors)
11:21<@Bjarni>I like the hg installer better... it just works ;)
11:23<fjb>TrueBrain: No Windows here... :-)
11:26<TrueBrain>fjb: still, with hg you can share your code with windows users more easily
11:26<TrueBrain>and despite the fact I hate windows, it really is a benifit
11:26<TrueBrain>also, hg is more userfriendly
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11:29<+glx>hg serve is nice :)
11:30<+glx>but I can't start it as daemon
11:30<fjb>I don't like Windowws that much. And I don't want to pay that much for a Windows licence.
11:39<Sacro>my windows licence was free :D
11:39<Sacro>which is about as much as i wanted to pay
11:42<fjb>I never got a free licence.
11:43<Sacro>i did
11:43<Sacro>i have several i think
11:52<@Bjarni>students get free software at uni... for some reason the software companies wants the students to learn their products and to get used to them
11:52<Sacro>i only use my free copy of XP for games
11:52<Sacro>otherwise i'd be perfectly happy with Linux
11:52<@Bjarni><fjb> I don't like Windowws that much. And I don't want to pay that much for a Windows licence. <-- you don't pay for windows. Either you are in a location where you can get it for free or you install linux
11:53<Sacro>mono does all my C# stuff
11:53<Sacro>latex is fine for documents
11:53<@Bjarni><Sacro> i only use my free copy of XP for games <-- same here (and once in a while a win only app for specific tasks for uni)
11:54<Sacro>Bjarni: so far, we have had nothing windows specific
11:54<Sacro>i mean, we use the command line vis studio compiler
11:54<Sacro>and notepad :(
11:54<Sacro>i prefer to use notepad++
11:55<@Bjarni>I need windows to make PCB layouts
11:56<+michi_cc>TrueBrain: do you know if hg has something similar to the git rebase command?
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11:56<fjb>Bjarni: I don't get Windows for free, but I don't use Linux either. :-P
11:56<CIA-5>OpenTTD: glx * r11255 /trunk/src/oldloader.cpp: -Fix [FS#1332]: industry counter was not updated on TTD savegame loading
11:57<TrueBrain>michi_cc: no idea, sorry
11:57<Ailure>heh loading old savegames
11:57<Ailure>it's been awhile since I tried that
11:58<+michi_cc>that would be one clear advantage for git if you write patches without having commit access
11:58<@Bjarni>git rebase?
11:58<@Bjarni>is that like setting a different server for hg pull and stuff?
11:58<+michi_cc>no, it a kind of history rewrite
11:59<TrueBrain>michi_cc: hg uses other things for that
11:59<TrueBrain>MQ I believe it is called
11:59<+michi_cc>dead usefull to keep a patch up-to-date or produce a pretty patch history
11:59<@Bjarni>I think there is something like that, but I didn't need it so I didn't pay attention and forwarded to the stuff I needed
11:59<TrueBrain> <- all you want to know about hg :)
12:00<@Bjarni>how do you revert to last commit when "hg revert" fails?
12:00<dihedral>Sacro: when we have tested it
12:00<TrueBrain>last commit you can rollback, most of the time more useful
12:00<@Bjarni>I tried hg merge and then I wanted to revert it and reverted the files, but now it complains that there is an uncommitted merge
12:00<@Bjarni>yet there is no file changes
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12:01<dihedral>i guess we will want binaries for linux (diff flavours) os x and win (where i think we can make the windows one)
12:01<TrueBrain>dihedral: if you can give me a patch, I can run it through the nightly system
12:02<dihedral>TrueBrain: apparently you know it already :
12:03<Sacro>i prefer TrueBrain's idea :)
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12:03<dihedral>Sacro: lol
12:03<TrueBrain>dihedral: I know the patch sucks :p But it will do for your job
12:04<dihedral>how many clients do you think it could handle?
12:04<TrueBrain>then Windows starts to bitch
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12:05<+michi_cc>TrueBrain: MQ seems to have some similarities to git rebase, but is indeed a different concept. I belive something like that is available for git as well
12:05<TrueBrain>michi_cc: it indeed is
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12:05<dihedral>TrueBrain: so it could easily fit 50 or rather 64 to get a standart m-player client number
12:05<+michi_cc>rebase can do some cool things, like interactivly reordering, merging or splitting of commits
12:06<TrueBrain>dihedral: depending on the hardware, I guess
12:06<TrueBrain>nobody ever tested it
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12:10<dihedral>well then it's about time
12:15<fjb>50 compynies on a big map? That sounds like fun.
12:16<@Bjarni>if the hardware can handle it
12:16<@Bjarni>i can imagine that the server has to have a decent net connection if lag should be at an acceptable level
12:17<TrueBrain>not companies, clients
12:17<@Bjarni>also I guess the number of packages would increase so everybody would use a bit more bandwidth
12:17<@Bjarni> <TrueBrain> not companies, clients <-- both are interesting concepts :)
12:18<TrueBrain>companies can't be raised that simple
12:18<@Bjarni>I didn't say that it would be simple
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12:18[~]Sacro hands TrueBrain a large integer
12:18<@Bjarni>I said that it would be interesting to have in the game
12:19<@Bjarni>but I guess we would have problems in a whole lot of locations
12:19<@Bjarni>like everywhere we use bitmasks for the companies
12:19<TrueBrain>Bjarni: really, that is fixed in several minutes
12:19<TrueBrain>that isn't a true problem
12:19<TrueBrain>_m is the problem
12:19<sdfahakan>Hi, probably doing some mistake, but can't help myself - a new vehicle became available, first electrified; I converted the track to electrified (and the depot as well), but I can't find the new train in the list of available - what am I doing wrong?
12:23<@Bjarni>ohh yeah... _m... that would be a problem
12:23<@Bjarni>a big one
12:23<dihedral>well - i hope to make it also a hudge party to celebrate Belugas work on new Indu
12:23<+glx>dihedral: you know there are still bugs ;)
12:23<dihedral>and would love to see you all there at some point or other if and when it works
12:24<@Bjarni>and you expect all of us to show up at a weeks notice at your place?
12:24<dihedral>glx: whats your point?
12:24<@Bjarni>at a normal weekday, right?
12:24<dihedral>there are still bugs in everything
12:24<dihedral>Bjarni: 1. it talks of a saturday in forum and on my website, 2. i would rather see you in the game :-)
12:25<Phazorx><TrueBrain> Phazorx: and you talk too much: << yeah, or i am around too much, or both
12:25<@Bjarni>wow, we can all sit at home and play some game where we are able to write to each other
12:25<@Bjarni>some party
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12:26[~]Sacro fancies some train derailing
12:29<fjb>At least the new industries are working. And the bugs are getting fewer every day.
12:35<fjb>What do you think about passenger (or even freigt) destinations?
12:36<Ammler>Truelight: nice to see you still in toplist of irclog.
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13:05<Eddi|zuHause>fjb: should be a difficulty setting
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13:06<Eddi|zuHause>basically, i would like to have destinations for all city based cargo (passengers, mail, good, food etc.)
13:06<fjb>Eddi|zuHause: Hm, yes, some people like it only easy. :-)
13:06<Eddi|zuHause>for industry cargo it would make more sense to just have capacities
13:08<fjb>It is important that mail has destinations too. Just imagine my mil would be delivered randomly, not where I want it to go. :-)
13:09<Eddi|zuHause>well, currently, it has destination, just nondeterministic
13:09<Eddi|zuHause>wherever it ends up, it wanted to go in the first place
13:10<Eddi|zuHause>i hate the way bridges work...
13:11<Eddi|zuHause>you don't have any diversity, you always need the fastest bridge available
13:11<Eddi|zuHause>there should be multiple bridges available with the same speed
13:12<Eddi|zuHause>maybe for different lengths
13:12<fjb>Yes. And diagonal bridges would be great.
13:13<Eddi|zuHause>that is something entirely unrelated
13:17<fjb>I can'T believe it! Sound is working on FreeBSd now.
13:22<huma>is 0.6 builds stable enough?
13:22<huma>i'd like to try new industries and bus stations
13:23<huma>yea, nightbuilds
13:23<fjb>It's pretty stable for me.
13:23<Noldo>just try it, we don't know how stable you want it
13:24[~]huma fetchs r11255
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13:31<bruce89>any word on the <gallery> tags on the wiki?
13:45<fjb>Eddi|zuHause: Is the alpine climate compatible to ttr3?
13:45<Eddi|zuHause>i have not tested that in a while, in the beginning, loading both made OTTD crash
13:46<fjb>Then I will try it. Are there other important things to know about the alpine climate?
13:46<Phazorx>load alpine 1st then bridge/road sets if you have them, then ttrs
13:47<Phazorx>and ttrs params "0 5" for most funkiness
13:48<Phazorx>hylje: it is in my book
13:48<hylje>functional, or not quite? ;)
13:49<Phazorx>doesnt affect functionality, just the looks
13:50<fjb>I usually use 0 0. I guess 0 5 would be a bit too funky.
13:52<fjb>Does the snow line change in summer and winter?
13:52<Phazorx>fjb: for large city games 5 is more variety and colors
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13:57<fjb>At which height is the snow line in alpine climate?
13:59<Eddi|zuHause>fjb: it changes during the seasons
14:00<fjb>Great. Which are the minimum an maximum heights?
14:03<Eddi|zuHause>something like 4 and 12, not sure
14:03<fjb>Ok, I will try
14:08<fjb>It's January 1921 and there is no snow at all. :-(
14:08<hylje>new year cycle!
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14:17<fjb>Ups, no coal mine and no power station...
14:18<fjb>Do you have to use the scenery editor with the new industries?
14:26<TrueBrain>Pirates of the C. part 3 really really REALLY sucks (ass)...
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14:34<fjb>Part three is pretty dark...
14:34<fjb>IS YAPF usable with ships now?
14:34<TrueBrain>mor elike: boring
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14:37<TrueBrain>and it sucks that you can't do VC1 encoding on linux
14:38<fjb>I saw it at a cinema.
14:39<Phazorx>tb you actualy got BD?
14:42<TrueBrain>blathijs: VC1 == WMV3
14:42<Phazorx>blue ray
14:42<TrueBrain>Phazorx: no
14:42<Phazorx>and vc1 used to be wm9
14:42<TrueBrain>I got a XBox
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14:42|-|Frostregen_ changed nick to Frostregen
14:42<TrueBrain>Phazorx: it still is, in fact
14:42<Phazorx>TrueBrain: sint there ffdshow port for linux?
14:42<hylje>large xbox is large
14:43<TrueBrain>Phazorx: ffmpeg doesn't have i
14:43|-|blathijs [] has quit [Quit: Reboot - LVM is being nasty]
14:43<TrueBrain>and I need an encoder
14:47<TrueBrain>I tried it in WinXP in a VMWare, but it failed to do any encoding.. output stream was 0 bytes :p
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15:00<huma>dahil water tower :)
15:00<TrueBrain>* do something wrong and simple, its irrelevant anyway as no sane person
15:00<TrueBrain> would encode to this format unless she has no other options
15:00<TrueBrain> also doing something wrong would fit well in the whole wmv design ...
15:00<TrueBrain>I love how people can talk about MS thingies :p
15:01<huma>btw, if anyone wants archlinux svn package, i have one :)
15:01<TrueBrain>what is so special about it? :p
15:02<Sacro>huma: i have it
15:02<Sacro>probably cos i wrote it...
15:02<huma>i did too :)
15:02|-|Zr40 [~zr40@2001:960:786:0:21b:63ff:fe9e:ab24] has joined #openttd
15:03<TrueBrain>poor description of package
15:03|-|boekabart [] has joined #openttd
15:03<Sacro>TrueBrain: i copied it straight from the stable one
15:04<TrueBrain>then thatone is poor too :p
15:04<TrueBrain>msg "SVN checkout done or server timeout" <- too lazy to check exit-code?
15:04<Sacro>hmmm, well that was copied from the SVN template :)
15:04<huma>mine says: OpenTTD is a clone of Transport Tycoon Deluxe :)
15:04<Rubidium>so a "Yes"
15:04<fjb>Is there an easy way to compile OTTD on Windows? Or do I have to download and install all nedded libraries separetely?
15:04<huma>just copied from the site :)
15:05<Sacro>Rubidium: "yes" would also be a correct answer
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15:08<Sacro>eek a blathijs
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15:15<Sacro>we need pbs
15:17<fjb>Yes, we need it. Is Tekki still with us?
15:22<TrueBrain>@seen Tekki
15:22<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: I have not seen Tekki.
15:22<TrueBrain>!seen Tekki
15:22<_42_>TrueBrain, I don't remember seeing Tekki.
15:22<TrueBrain>poor bots, can't handle a reboot?
15:23<TrueBrain>no, they can :p
15:24<Sacro>@seen tekky
15:24<@DorpsGek>Sacro: tekky was last seen in #openttd 5 weeks, 6 days, 1 hour, 24 minutes, and 10 seconds ago: <Tekky> bye blathijs.
15:29<TrueBrain>stupid UT3 Demo.. it needs .NET framework, and Wine doesn't have that, DAH!
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15:29[~]TrueBrain slaps software
15:29<SmatZ>I am downloading the demo, too
15:30<huma>nothing beats q3
15:30<SmatZ>It would be nice if it worked under Linux, as older Unreals do
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15:31<bruce89>.NET? bloody silly
15:32<SmatZ>I doubt wine can use mono, but I will try :)
15:35<Sacro>mono ftw
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15:42[~]dihedral greets orudge
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15:43<TrueBrain>ha, I made my first ffmpeg patch :) WHOHO!
15:43<TrueBrain>SmatZ: don't count on it :)
15:43<TrueBrain>it is an executable that extracts a .NET application
15:44<TrueBrain>will be hard to get mono to help you out in thisone :)
15:45<TrueBrain>SmatZ: I guess it will be waiting for the official port to be released :)
15:47<fjb>Is it usual that half of the tourist center is flipping away?
15:47<bruce89>usually not
15:48<+glx>fjb: you mean partly disapearing when moving a window over it?
15:50<fjb>Yes, and not even a window, the mousepointer is enough to make it disappear.
15:50<+glx>it happens in ttdp too
15:52<fjb>Looks like a bug in the tourist center than. I would not spend my holidays there.
15:52<TrueBrain>I hate reading white letters on black background for a long time
15:53<TrueBrain>when you stop reading, you can't read other things clearly
15:53<+glx>same for me :)
15:54<fjb>Try to read under red light. :-)
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16:07<fjb>There is no snow. :-(
16:08<bruce89>it's only October?
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16:09<fjb>No snow in my alpine climate. :-)
16:10<bruce89>of course
16:10<bruce89>wasn't a question anyway
16:12<Eddi|zuHause><fjb> Is there an easy way to compile OTTD on Windows? Or do I have to download and install all nedded libraries separetely? <- there is a "" somewhere
16:12<Eddi|zuHause>fjb: sure you started in arctic climate, not temperate?
16:12<+glx> is to use with MSVC
16:13<fjb>I saw some chocolate santa claus at a chopping center a few days ago. :-(
16:13<bruce89>a place with lots of knives?
16:13<fjb>I startet in temperate...
16:14<Ammler>TrueBrain: thats the only patch for clientLimit 11 and would it make easier to raise the limit later:
16:15<Ammler>you already removed the need for patching settings.cpp
16:15<Eddi|zuHause>fjb: do you also expect to find a train at the bus station?
16:16<fjb>Ok, I will start a new game in arctic climate.
16:16<fjb>Didn't know that there is arctic ibn the middle of Europe. :-)
16:17<Ammler>I am not sure, if I should make a FS post anyway, because its so small?
16:18<fjb>Now there is _much_ snow.
16:19<Maedhros>good night
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16:28<Eddi|zuHause>fjb: that's why it's renamed to "alpine"
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16:31<fjb>Thougt it was a kind of modified temperate climate.
16:32<TrueBrain>EVE-Online refuses here to work via cedega... :( :( :(
16:33<Ammler>fjb: search for BuildOTTD in the forums
16:33<fjb>Ammler: Thank you.
16:33[~]Sacro uses VS2005 under 'doze
16:33<Sacro>or MingW under Leenux
16:33<Ammler>and I guess, Alpine.grf is a arctic replacement
16:33<Ammler>just with the landscape of temperate and snow
16:34<TrueBrain>ha, fixed it :) YEAH!
16:34<+glx>you can use it in temperate Ammler
16:34[~]Ammler tries...
16:35<fjb>It definitely looks arctic.
16:35<fjb>In temperate climate I got no snow.
16:35<bruce89>I don't see what's wrong with good old make
16:36<Ammler>bruce89: BuildOTTD uses make, imo
16:36<+glx>BuildOTTD is o front end for mingw/msys
16:37<bruce89>svn co openttd && cd openttd && ./configure && make
16:37<bruce89>or something along those lines
16:37<+glx>you need a working mingw/msys install for that
16:37<+glx>(on windows)
16:37<bruce89>that's why I'm using Linux
16:37<Ammler>buildottd has that all incl.
16:38<fjb>BuildOTTD looks like the thing I was looking for.
16:38<+glx>bruce89: I use that too, but on windows
16:38<bruce89>although the OpenTTD build system is messed up
16:38<bruce89>make compiles all files each time
16:38<Ammler>glx, what need I to do for using Alpine in temperate?
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16:39<fjb>I'm using FreeBSD. But I have to build a patched version of OpenTTD for a windows user.
16:39<+glx>fjb: you need a crosscompiler
16:40<fjb>I have access to a windows workstation for that.
16:40<Ammler>fjb: BuildOTTD is really nice
16:41<+glx>Ammler: it worked when I tried some rev ago, but I cannot make it work now
16:42<+glx>was probably a bug ;)
16:42<fjb>Ammler: I will try it. Thank you.
16:42<Ammler>hmm, I use it not regulary, I only used it when I needed a win bin like fjb
16:43<Ammler>on VirtualBox Win ;)
16:43<bruce89>bloody C# though
16:43<Ammler>glx, please help me, I don't see any snow in temperate.
16:44<+glx>Ammler: it fails for me too indeed
16:44<Ammler>maybe, it does in TTDPatch?
16:45<fjb>I don't mind if it's arctic. It looks great.
16:45[~]glx checks
16:45<bruce89>is there supposed to be snow?
16:46<fjb>Oh, now I have three kinds of bank...
16:47<+glx>Ammler: works the same in ttdp and ottd
16:47<Ammler>bruce89: what else is in Alpine?
16:47<bruce89>in temperate I mean
16:47<Ammler>the best thing on Alpine is, you can use DBSetXL on arctic
16:47<Ammler>and of course the changing snowline
16:48<fjb>But looks like there are more new industry bugs in arctic...
16:48<fjb>I found a bank that produces nothing.
16:48<Ammler>yep, you can't use PBI in arctic
16:49<Ammler>or even you can't use alpine and PBI together
16:50<Ammler>fjb: which newindustries set do you use?
16:50<fjb>What is PBI?
16:50<fjb>I use the Georges sets.
16:51<fjb>The same sets that I use in temperate climate, uónly the basic vector got echanged for the acrtic basic vector.
16:55<fjb>Ammler: Ah, thank you.
16:55<fjb>I prefer DBSetXL anyway. Reminds me of my Märlin model railway.
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16:58<Ammler>fjb: You played with the new GRF of Michael, does it work well?
16:59<Eddi|zuHause>fjb: arcticw.grf does some newindustries stuff itself, it might not work well with ECS or other newindustries stuff it was not designed for
17:00<dihedral>the patch snow_line_height - is that still wroking at all?
17:00<Eddi|zuHause>it should be...
17:01<fjb>Ammler: yes, it works.
17:01<dihedral>so if i set the value to 3 and play a temperate game, i should have snow all over the place, right?
17:02<+glx>dihedral: it's not snow_on_temperate :)
17:02<fjb>Ammler: Only some graphics don't show the real freight. But you can transport any ECS cargo.
17:02<dihedral>according to this
17:02<dihedral>quote "it's possible to have snow-capped mountains etc. without having to play an arctic map"
17:02<Ammler>fjb: and tourists?
17:03<Ammler>can you transport them on the fast passengers trains?
17:03<Eddi|zuHause><Ammler> yep, you can't use PBI in arctic <-- i have somewhere a patch to make a GRF believe it was a different climate, maybe that could help?
17:03<+glx>dihedral: don't trust the wiki :)
17:03<Ammler>dihedral: did you check Alpine?
17:03<dihedral>no- not yet
17:03<dihedral>is it in the ottc grfpack?
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17:04<Ammler>dihedral: yes
17:04<Eddi|zuHause>dihedral: once upon a time there was a "snow in temperate" patch, it was in MiniIN
17:04<fjb>Ammler: Tourists are working. Only some locomotives are not able to pull trains with tourists. The BR 18 is the only one where that happens.
17:04<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: I can try
17:05<dihedral>Eddi|zuHause: once upon a time... and nobody cleaned up the bits and pieces of something that never made it into trunk?
17:05<Ammler>fjb: so you can transport tourists with the ICE?
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17:06<fjb>Ammler: Don't know. I didn't get that far in that game yet. I only have some TEE using BR 103.
17:06<fjb>Ammler: Look here:
17:07<+glx>dihedral: I just removed the wrong stuff on wiki
17:07<bruce89>@seen MiHaMiX
17:07<@DorpsGek>bruce89: MiHaMiX was last seen in #openttd 2 weeks, 1 day, 2 hours, 7 minutes, and 47 seconds ago: <MiHaMiX> Prof_Frink:
17:08<dihedral>glx: does it at least have affect on the arctic map?
17:08<Sacro>"This file becomes a file of the text form when defrosting with decompression software."
17:08<+glx>yes it's the only landscape where it has effect
17:09<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: [Di Nov 7 2006] [13:37:51] <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause2: maybe ;p <-- that was for the snowy newstations to appear in temperate
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17:09<+glx>you can modify it in lanscape generator GUI when arctic climate is selected
17:09<Eddi|zuHause>hm, is not there anymore
17:09<Eddi|zuHause>i dig out the file
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17:14<Eddi|zuHause>the "requirement: within x tiles from town" sound interesting
17:16<Ammler>PBI makes also patch settings more industries per town and industries close together obsolete
17:19<Eddi|zuHause>E94 is a great engine ;)
17:19<Eddi|zuHause>[for 10 tile trains]
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17:23<fjb>Eddi|zuHause: Yes, it indeed is. And you can use it for many years.
17:24<Eddi|zuHause>i actually remember seeing two here at the station
17:24<Sacro>shift+2 to stick me head out the window
17:24<Sacro>that'll make driving a steam engine much easier
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17:27<Sacro>1.3 miles for a HST to go from 125 to stop
17:27<Sacro>thats a long way :(
17:27<Eddi|zuHause>i'm just in 1943, they're practically brand new
17:28<huma>hmm, i get a popup message that shows unloading progress in percent, but not in the game
17:28<huma>current svn
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17:40<huma>Eddi|zuHause: ah, damn, right :)
17:40<huma>neat feature
17:40<dihedral>i just paused the game and someone was still able to sell trains which were in the depo
17:41<dihedral>no - sorry 0.5.3
17:42<dihedral>i paused the game and watched the train list...
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17:52<dihedral>looks like you guys all have gone to the land of nod
17:54<fjb>It's sometimes better to say nothing. :-)
17:55<dihedral>do you know of this?
17:56<fjb>No, that's why I say nothing.
17:56<bruce89>isn't that in Command and Conquer?
17:56|-|gfldex_ changed nick to gfldex
17:56<dihedral>bruce89: wrong channel :-D
17:56<bruce89>the lad of NOD
17:57<bruce89>there was a brotherhood of nod in Tiberian Sun if I remember rightly
17:58<dihedral>yes - they were in the very first c&c IIRC too
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18:00<dihedral>g'night ladies
18:01<Eddi|zuHause>dihedral: you were always able to build and sell vehicles in a depot in pause modus
18:01<dihedral>why is that?
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18:01<dihedral>can that not be... pause?
18:02<dihedral>esp in a network came it can be hand to have a pause really mean pause
18:03<dihedral>anyhow - my bed is calling for me
18:03<dihedral>so have a good night
18:03<SmatZ>good night
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18:10<DaleStan><Belugas> Could it be that newindu.asm:1920 should read "...for callback 28" instead of "...for callback 22" ? <-- It looks like you are correct, and the comment is wrong. The comment by the definition of newindu_placechkproc also says 28.
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18:32<@Belugas>exactly, DaleStan
18:37<@Belugas>DaleStan, would you prefer i contact csaboka or can you fix it yourself? I don't know how it works on yor side regarding stuff like that
18:37<@Belugas>or do yu consider it's not worth correcting?
18:46<bruce89>can anyone unprotect the main wiki page?
18:46<huma>bruce89: you want to deface it? :)
18:46<TrueBrain>bruce89: mainpage changes need to be relayed to one of the developers
18:46<TrueBrain>they can change it :)
18:47<TrueBrain>for the reason huma states ;)
18:48<bruce89>I don't see the point in it being locked
18:49<huma>tropics is kind of nice, but.. snowy hills are better
18:49<DaleStan>Belugas: I'll start a collection of comment-fixes. With my recent luck and current sleepiness, I'd somehow manage to break TTDPatch by editing that comment.
18:49<bruce89>the spammers just go to a random page to vandalise
18:49<Sacro>bruce89: if anyone could do it then by definition it wouldn't be protected
18:50<bruce89>I'd also ban unregistered edits
18:50<DaleStan>bruce89: I expect the Open main page will get unprotected about when Wikipedia unprotects their main page.
18:51<bruce89>OpenStreetMap's main page isn't protected
18:51<bruce89>but they don't allow non-registered edits
18:51<bruce89>and they have a CAPTCH
18:51<bruce89>with an A
18:52<@Belugas>granted DaleStan :) (about cb28 fix)
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18:53<Ammler>bruce89: just tell them, what you like to change, it will be done very fast...
18:53<Ammler>nah, here...
18:53<@Belugas>yeah... tell us
18:53<bruce89>I want <gallery>s seen to, unregistered users banned and the main page unprotected
18:54<Ammler>hmm, they also need to agree, of course ;)
18:54<bruce89>well, the first one and the last one certainly
18:54<@Belugas>forget the last one
18:55<@Belugas>why do you want gallery tag ?
18:56<@Belugas>frm what i can guess, you want to change it for a new design
18:56<@Belugas>waht design?
18:58<bruce89>the second one will mean the 3rd one is no longer an issue
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19:00<DaleStan>By "what you like to change", I think he meant "what text you want placed where".
19:02<@Belugas>indeed :) referring to the main page unprotected
19:02<bruce89>there's 4 things then
19:02<@Belugas>regarding the gallery tag, i'll try to talk to Mihamix whenever he comes by
19:03<bruce89>[[Image:OpenttdManual.png]] to [[Image:OpenttdManual.png|64px]]
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19:03<bruce89>and all the other icons down the left side
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19:06<@Belugas>[20:06] <bruce89> and all the other icons down the left side <-- what do yo mean?
19:07<bruce89>hang on
19:07<bruce89>the ones beside development and graphics development
19:09<bruce89>without the smile
19:11<@Belugas>ho... ok
19:11<@Belugas>sutpid quesiton, but... what is the advantage?
19:11<@Belugas>"stupid question"
19:11<bruce89>it means the icon in the top left doesn't look stupid
19:11<bruce89>user manual that is
19:13<@Belugas>i'll pass by the info
19:13<@Belugas>i do not have rights to edit the page myself (and do not want it either, not my
19:14<Ammler>indeed, looks ugly the bigger image...
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19:20<Digitalfox>I'm doing it wrong?
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19:22<bruce89>so am I
19:23<+glx> SpComb [] a quitté IRC : Ping timeout: 480 seconds <-- Digitalfox: no you see why it failed :)
19:23<Digitalfox>I know there are two places and since is down, i'm looking for the other
19:23<Digitalfox>right glx
19:23<Digitalfox>but glx there was other adress
19:25<+glx><SpComb> Logs: (old: )
19:25<Eddi|zuHause>what happened to grep?
19:26<Eddi|zuHause>well, granted, you need logs to grep through :p
19:27<CIA-5>OpenTTD: belugas * r11256 /trunk/src/window.cpp:
19:27<CIA-5>OpenTTD: -Codechange: Make opening a new toolbar not overlapping its parent one, by locating it under the parent, and aligned with the left side of it.
19:27<CIA-5>OpenTTD: FS#1310, by BigBB
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19:39<Eddi|zuHause>that sounds great ;)
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20:09<Ammler>Does someone else here IRC over SSL?
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20:17<bruce89>sounds rather fun
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21:57<Maarten>I always keep forgetting that openttd is on IRC too :P
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22:43<Soup>everyone how do i install squirrel
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---Logclosed Sun Oct 14 00:00:22 2007