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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-12-16

---Logopened Sun Dec 16 00:00:45 2007
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05:54<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11643 /trunk/src/ (14 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: conform with the coding style for the WP macro uses.
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06:35<strong99>how to change autosave trough console in dedicated server?
06:35<strong99>it saves now every game month
06:35<Gonozal_VIII>i think you can't... only options in the configure patches menu
06:36<Gonozal_VIII>but i'm not sure
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06:36<strong99>stupid, so i have to cancel the server and set it?
06:38<Gonozal_VIII>possibly.. but don't give too much on my opinion, i'm not a dev and i never ran a dedicated server
06:39<strong99>well couldn't find any console command on the wiki :P
06:39<Gonozal_VIII>you can change the cfg, but that won't change anything on the running game, only after restart
06:39<strong99>^^ well thanx anyway
06:40<Eddi|zuHause2>note that exiting the game will overwrite the config
06:40<strong99>yes, thats right
06:40<Gonozal_VIII>but when the server reaches the end year and restarts it doesn't or am i wrong there?
06:43<strong99>don't know
06:44<SpComb>strong99: perhaps with set, list_vars
06:46<strong99>:) will try sec
06:49<Gonozal_VIII>you forgot 1 and possibly 0 stillunknown
06:49<strong99>long live save and load :P
06:50<Gonozal_VIII>save and load of a game loads the changed config?
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06:51<Knightmare>hey guys
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06:52<Knightmare>last time I was in #openttd, i had problems with a modified glasgow underground scenario
06:52<Knightmare>i can confirm that 0.6RC corrects the bug and makes it playable again :)
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06:53<SmatZ>good :)
06:54<Knightmare>i have noticed the groups of trains feature is no longer there, is there an option to re-enable this or was it removed completely?
06:55<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm it is there?
06:55<Knightmare>there is the manage list options, but not to make individual groups in the way 0.5.x could
06:56<Gonozal_VIII>look to the left of the window
06:56<Rubidium>0.5.x could not make individual groups
06:58<Knightmare>perhaps it was 0.4.8. I used to have each line in a group, e.g. barkerloo, circle, etc but for Glasgow
06:58<Rubidium>0.4.x did also not have individual groups
06:58<Rubidium>no version < 0.6 has
06:58<strong99>you have in nightly build those groups
06:59<Knightmare>my mistake, sorry
06:59<strong99>r11629 - 11637
06:59<Rubidium>0.6.0-betas have them
06:59<Rubidium>it's just an option in the configure patches menu somewhere
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07:01<Knightmare>interface > advanced vehicle orders?
07:02<Knightmare>yeah thats the one
07:02<Knightmare>would anyone like a copy of this scenario while i am here?
07:02<Knightmare>has GRFs too
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07:07<Knightmare>I am working on adding more stations in the north east of the map, and improving tracks. I also have suburban rail and bus servuce to add
07:12<LordAzamath>anyone with good knowledge of grfs here?
07:13<LordAzamath>I have one problem...I replaced some sprites of trg1r.grf
07:13<LordAzamath>and recodeced it
07:13<LordAzamath>now everything looks abnormal
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07:13<LordAzamath>yellow and red/black
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07:14<LordAzamath>and strange things happen when I turn transparency on :(
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07:16<Gonozal_VIII>that hurts my eyes
07:18<Eddi|zuHause2>then you obviously did something wrong
07:18<Gonozal_VIII>i have no idea what the windows have to do with grf
07:18<Eddi|zuHause2>also, you should not modify trg*.grf, make a newgrf instead
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07:18<protoss>hi everyone
07:18<LordAzamath>Eddi, I'm working on the sprite replacement
07:19<protoss>where is the openttd.cfg in the beta version ?
07:19<Gonozal_VIII>same place as before
07:19<protoss>i need it to enable full-screen mode
07:19<protoss>hm, it aint here
07:19<Prof_Frink>Gonozal_VIII: I think grdtogrf works under wine, so you can use that to create a newgrf of the sprites you want to play with
07:19<LordAzamath>you can enable it in-game too
07:19<protoss>cool how ?
07:19<Eddi|zuHause2>protoss: openttd.cfg gets created when you first run the game
07:20<protoss>let me run the game
07:20<LordAzamath>Prof_Frink: I don't want to do a newgrf
07:20<Eddi|zuHause2>and there should be a button for full screen in the game options
07:20<LordAzamath>I want to replace the sprites
07:21<LordAzamath>look at thread 8bpp graphics replacement
07:21<LordAzamath>for more information
07:21<LordAzamath>does the trg1r have to be with constant height?
07:21<LordAzamath>in pixels
07:22<Eddi|zuHause2>let's say... don't change any dimensions...
07:22<LordAzamath>I didn't change
07:22<Eddi|zuHause2>just don't...
07:22<LordAzamath>grfcodec did :(
07:22<protoss>ok it works, thanks alot
07:22<LordAzamath>that means I can't edit nfo too?
07:23<Eddi|zuHause2>you shouldn't need to...
07:23<Gonozal_VIII>hmm strange i have fullscreen = false in my cfg but it's fullscreen
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07:24<Eddi|zuHause2>also, if you want me to look at something, post a link
07:24<LordAzamath>eddi, if I replace one sprite, with bigger one, then I need to
07:25<LordAzamath>though I guess I shouldn't change dimensions...
07:26<Eddi|zuHause2>sprite sizes are occasionally used outside the graphics engine
07:26<Eddi|zuHause2>and those may never be different depending on which trg*.grf you use
07:27<LordAzamath>so it would need a code change?
07:27<LordAzamath>to allow it?
07:27<Eddi|zuHause2>just don't change sizes
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07:28<Eddi|zuHause2>it will not only need codechanges, it will also cause incompatibility for multiplayer
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07:33<Gonozal_VIII>for all that can recieve german tv... look at pro 7 teletext page 131
07:34<Gonozal_VIII>a 11 year old girl jumped out of a train doing 120 km/h because the train didn't stop at her station...
07:34<Gonozal_VIII>they searched for her but didn't find her because she walked home...
07:35<Progman>she alived?
07:36<Gonozal_VIII>not hurt
07:36<Eddi|zuHause2>Progman: bjarni told us that yesterday
07:36<Eddi|zuHause2>Gonozal_VIII too
07:38<Gonozal_VIII>can't remember... i'm getting old...
07:39[~]Gonozal_VIII needs to be replaced
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07:42<Gonozal_VIII>Age: 23 years (20)
07:43<Knightmare>ok im off thanks for your help today guys
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07:56<LordAzamath> going off to windows.. need to use palconvert tool...
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07:56<LordAzamath>is it avilable for linux too?
07:56<LordAzamath>then I need not to reboot
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08:01<LordAzamath>njeeh...anyways I'm off
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08:41<wonea>anyone know when a standalone release is coming ?>
08:41<wonea>trying to introduce OpenTTD to my friends
08:41<wonea>or I want to
08:41<Progman>when someone create sprites for the default ones
08:42<Prof_Frink>and sound effects
08:42<+glx>probably for 1.0
08:42<wonea>a long long way then ?
08:42<wonea>a few years?
08:42<+glx>when it's done ;)
08:42<Progman>until someone creates the sprites ;)
08:42<Prof_Frink>wonea: Can you pixel?
08:43<Gonozal_VIII> you can help by creating some sprites yourself
08:43<wonea>I've read the blender thread for ages
08:43<wonea>some good artwork
08:43<wonea>just a case of bringing it together
08:45<wonea>not complaining I think OpenTTD is great
08:45<wonea>just open source games like Battle of Wesnoth seem to be making progress faster
08:46|-|skidd13 [] has left #openttd [Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. - Eleanor Roosevelt]
08:48<Eddi|zuHause2>the problem is not only great artwork
08:49<Eddi|zuHause2>it's also rules of consistency
08:49<Eddi|zuHause2>similar look to the original
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08:50<wonea>if the replacement graphics are worse than the original than there's no point
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08:50<Prof_Frink>wonea: I wouldn't say no point
08:50<wonea>well from a legal prespective
08:50<wonea>I mean, the point is to make them better
08:51<wonea>like the audio samples are a bit shabby in places
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08:51<wonea>I can hear the low pcm rate sometimes on my headphones
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09:06<Eddi|zuHause2>well, if you find a database of freely distributable sound samples similar to the ones here...
09:16<wonea>If I do
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10:19<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm assertion failed
10:19<Gonozal_VIII>slope.h Line: 347
10:19<Gonozal_VIII>Expression: !IsSteepSlope(s)
10:21<Rubidium>very nice... but how to reproduce it
10:21<Rubidium>looks very FS#1552ish
10:21<Gonozal_VIII>i don't know, i did nothing with slopes
10:23<Eddi|zuHause2>Gonozal_VIII: towns?
10:23<Gonozal_VIII>hmm could be...
10:23<Gonozal_VIII>there was only one very small town, it was a 64^2 map
10:25<Gonozal_VIII>btw it's r11631
10:25<Gonozal_VIII>and the last thing i did was trying to let a road vehicle turn around
10:26<Gonozal_VIII>i can reproduce it in the autosave
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10:26<Rubidium>well, add to FS#1552 and we might be able to get it fixed
10:28<Gonozal_VIII>i have some custom grfs there
10:30<Rubidium>well, if I can't reproduce it I'll bug you to attach them ;)
10:30<Rubidium>but the amount of newgrfs I have has grown considerably
10:30<Rubidium>(so does the amount of savegames of others)
10:31<Rubidium>all with very inspiring names
10:31<+glx>I name them fsxxx.sav ;)
10:31<Gonozal_VIII>you can't have them, i modified them myself
10:32<Gonozal_VIII>ok... loaded the save, paused, disabled the grfs, saved, unpaused... assertion
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10:39<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r11644 /trunk/ (28 files in 6 dirs): -Codechange: merge some functions from tunnel_map.h and bridge_map.h into tunnelbridge_map.h
10:39<Gonozal_VIII>i added the save to fs#1552
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10:43<Gonozal_VIII>btw... the "you can't have them" wasn't supposed to mean that i won't give them to you but that i didn't give them to anybody so you can't have them yet^^
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10:57<UnderBuilder>a question: will the gui be changed?
10:57<Sacro>an answer: yes
10:57<Gonozal_VIII>a strange question...
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10:59<Gonozal_VIII>i guess you think there is something in the gui that needs to be changed?
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11:04<Leviathan>hey where can i find detials on the new industry patch?
11:04<Gonozal_VIII>depends on what you mean by new industry patch
11:05<Leviathan>i remember one
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11:05<Leviathan>with lots more industrys
11:08<Leviathan>ya think so
11:08<Leviathan>it work for ottd?
11:08<UnderBuilder>I have an idea for ecs but will post it in the ttdpatch irc
11:11<UnderBuilder>it is about dividing passengers into: passengers (travelers), passengers (workers), passengers (turists) and passengers (business)
11:15<Gonozal_VIII>hmm different destinations for them ok... but they usually take the same vehicles
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11:20<LordAzamath>pavel1269, you there?
11:23<LordAzamath>hmm...ok then
11:23<LordAzamath>anyone interesting of making a patch?
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11:40<pavel1269>LordAzamath: ?
11:40<pavel1269>what patch? :)
11:41<LordAzamath>scroll down
11:41<LordAzamath>a bit :)
11:41<LordAzamath>basically toggleable grid lines
11:41<LordAzamath>sprites can be provided :) I hope
11:42<LordAzamath>if Zephyris will help again (I always think he has done so much already, that it's a bit rude already to ask more)
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11:43<LordAzamath>(like the pic that Belugas likes the most :D:D )
11:43<LordAzamath>I hope the 'hmm' will mean that you consider it?
11:57[~]Belugas has answered the topic. Hope i've made it clear ;)
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11:58<pavel1269>hehe :)
11:59<Gonozal_VIII>hmm why that belugas?
11:59<Leviathan>how can i do coop
11:59<Leviathan>just host a game and join the same company?
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12:00<Gonozal_VIII>if you can switch the gridlines on/off you can also leave them on and won't notice any difference
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12:03<LordAzamath>and you think I mentioned Belugas' name intentionally? So he would say something about it before I make a suggestion or smth? the answer is yes :D
12:06<Gonozal_VIII>could be a button in the transparency options window
12:10<LordAzamath>aarh..forget it Gonozal...if he said no way to it...I don't think he'll reconsider even after a long asking...There are other examples of that..but I don't want to mention them right now :)
12:10<valhallasw>omg... I finally understand why the roller coaster clip is called 'ttdmax.avi'
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12:10<valhallasw>'Right, transport tycoon maximized gives you a roller coaster'
12:10<valhallasw>but no, the coaster is called 'top thrill dragster' :D
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12:13<skidd13>hi folks
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12:19<Leviathan>is that blue arrow on the road construction on the new beta one way road?
12:21<gono_ping_timeout>and do you realise that typing that question took you much longer than pressing that button?
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12:25<+glx>or even right clicking on it
12:26<Leviathan>y doesent tram work
12:26<Leviathan>its grayed out
12:27<+glx>you need a grf with trams in it
12:27<Leviathan>ah... any help?
12:27<pavel1269>anyone here better result? :P
12:27<pavel1269>openttd - 220 error(s), 0 warning(s)
12:28<+glx>what are the errors?
12:28<skidd13>pavel1269: revision?
12:28<Leviathan>nice ty
12:29<pavel1269>i jsut installed VS2005 and added there .... includes and lib ... dx, freetype, libpng and zlib ... anythink missing? :/
12:29<Leviathan>does one way road turn it into a highway?
12:29<Leviathan>use both lanes?
12:29<+glx>pavel1269: latest dx ?
12:30<pavel1269>friend send me dx which he compile with
12:30<+glx>latest dx doesn't have directmusic, so you need an older one
12:31<pavel1269>as i said he compile with it
12:31<+glx>I mean sdk
12:32<skidd13>Leviathan: nope (at least ATM)
12:32<+glx>pavel1269: you followed the wiki?
12:32<Leviathan>i enabled generic trams grf
12:32<Leviathan>do i have to set trams on somehwere
12:32<+glx>you just need a gr
12:32<Leviathan>i have done that
12:33<Leviathan>oh i c
12:33<Leviathan>u have to enable the grf once in game
12:33<pavel1269>maybye i see error now ...
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12:50<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r11645 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix (r8128): station ground tiles may have transparency or company colour
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13:11<Leviathan>i rly dont understand the details performance rating
13:11<Leviathan>ive looked at
13:11<Leviathan>what does Stations: 47/80 mean
13:11<Leviathan>on my game
13:12<Leviathan>and 95/80 the other player has
13:12<gono_ping_timeout>station tiles
13:12<Rubidium>rather stations
13:12<Rubidium>"you have"/"you need for 100% rating"
13:12<gono_ping_timeout>hmmm no parts?
13:13<Rubidium>certainly not tiles
13:13<Rubidium>but it depends on how you define a station
13:13<gono_ping_timeout>ok, you know it better... but i thought it was tile based there
13:13<Rubidium>for each station { for each station type you have { count++ } }
13:14<gono_ping_timeout>80 stations is a lot while 80 station tiles is not
13:14<Rubidium>a 8x10 tile railway station will not give you 80 'points'
13:16<Eddi|zuHause2>so it does not count station signs, but rather station-type icons?
13:17<Leviathan>mind looking at my save game?
13:17<LordAzamath>eddi: ?
13:17<Leviathan>one of us has networks one of us has some point to point lines
13:17<Leviathan>but the one with the p2p has more points
13:17<Leviathan>for stations
13:17<Leviathan>and overall
13:18<LordAzamath>but incomes?
13:18<LordAzamath>guess one of you has better incomes :D
13:19<gono_ping_timeout>the rating doesn't look how those stations are connected or even if they are in use or just useless
13:19<Leviathan>yes i understand that
13:20<Leviathan>oh i think i get it now
13:20<gono_ping_timeout>[19:16:58] Eddi|zuHause2: so it does not count station signs, but rather station-type icons? <-- that seems to be it... didn't know that
13:20<Leviathan>its because he has more stations
13:20<Leviathan>than my network
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13:21<Leviathan>i got 23, he has 64
13:21<Eddi|zuHause2>networks tend to reuse stations more often ;)
13:22<gono_ping_timeout>80 is 100% his 95 too, your 47 stations are only ~59%
13:24<LordAzamath>and tend to use tracks more too
13:25<LordAzamath>think how much upkeep does he have
13:25<LordAzamath>for his tracks
13:25<gono_ping_timeout>there would be lots of possibilities for more rating details...
13:26<gono_ping_timeout>but i usually don't care about that
13:29<gono_ping_timeout>for example calculate how good the tracks are used with the counter that's used in the grass growth on unused tracks patch...
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13:36<Zothar>aren't banks supposed to always be in a town/city rather than out in the middle of the countryside?
13:37<Rubidium>depends on the version of OTTD you're using (and the NewGRFs you're using) ;)
13:38<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11646 /trunk/src/ (openttd.cpp settings_gui.cpp strings.cpp strings.h): -Codechange: check whether (some) characters are missing in the current 'font' for the 'currently' chosen language and give a warning when that does happen.
13:39<Zothar>no NewGRFs
13:39<pavel1269>and old? :)
13:39<Zothar>"built-in" only
13:39<+glx>that's a know bug
13:39<Eddi|zuHause2>i saw a fix somewhere that had something to do with banks
13:39<SmatZ>I think this was fixed "few minutes" after 0.6.0-beta2 had been released
13:39<+glx>already fixed yes
13:40<Zothar>guess I forgot seeing that in the commit logs
13:41<SmatZ>r11615, 0.6.0-beta2 is r11613
13:42<Zothar>for the company passwords not saved between server start for multiplayer games bug, should that be saved in the savegame file? If so, is that simply waiting for someone to submit a patch to do such? [FS#599]
13:43<Rubidium>passwords in savegames are bad because server ops tend to 'release' those savegames
13:43<Noldo>there is some controversy on how it should be done
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13:48<Zothar>Rubidium: one way hash fixes that problem; a server op should always be able to remove the saved password
13:49<Rubidium>one way hashes do not fix that problem
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13:50<Rubidium>it's like instead of "not locking you door", "locking your door but putting the key under the garbage bin"
13:50<Zothar>which problem? making a password known or a 'released' savegame being unsable?
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13:51<SmatZ>and hashed salted password and a salt saved in the savegame?
13:51<Rubidium>same 'issue'
13:51<Noldo>also the server would need to be changed so that it doesn't send the passwords/hashes to the client
13:51<Zothar>or save the salt outside of the savegame so that the password is unusable without the salt value used to hash it
13:52<Zothar>Noldo: I would think it should never do that anyway :)
13:52<SmatZ>yes true :-x
13:52<Rubidium>then people are going to complain that the savegame doesn't work instead of just not having the passwords for the companies
13:52<Noldo>Zothar: but now it sends the whole savegame
13:52<Rubidium>Zothar: futhermore that salt would probably be known pretty soon too as it most likely gets into openttd.cfg
13:52<Zothar>Noldo: send the data as if there is no password in that case
13:52<Rubidium>which people have to supply on bug reports
13:53<Zothar>Rubidium: openttd.cfg shouldn't be published, but if it is, save it in a separate file
13:53<Zothar>to me, the bottom line is that there has to be a way to prevent company passwords being lost by a simple server restart; surely this is not an unsolved problem
13:53<Zothar> we shouldn't have to invent any wheels or anything
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14:02<@Belugas>for those who wonder why no toggeable grids in tile set :
14:02<@Belugas>see my last post
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14:04<jools>Hi room, bit of an openttd newbie here with a question about bus autoupgrading...
14:04<jools>How does it work?
14:05<gono_ping_timeout>doesn't seem to be much problem for the white borders when you select an area of land (sprites 752 - 770) in trg1r
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14:07<gono_ping_timeout>bottom middle of the vehicle list has a manage list dropdown
14:07<gono_ping_timeout>select replace vehicles there
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14:17<gono_ping_timeout>nice rubidium, would never have guessed that reason
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14:21<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11647 /trunk/src/strings.cpp: -Fix (r11646): it did not compile without freetype...
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14:28<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11648 /trunk/src/ (network/network_gui.cpp strings.cpp): -Fix [FS#1560]: the company password was not set when one pressed the enter key.
14:31<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r11649 /trunk/src/ (15 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: some code can be simplified thanks to changes in r11642
14:32<pavel1269>10mins 3 revisions? :)
14:33<Rubidium>I've seen more revisions in less time
14:33<SmatZ>revision spree :)
14:35<gono_ping_timeout>get three for the price of two!
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15:19<TheBlasphemer>I've got a dedicated server running, and want to introduce a new GRF (trams) into an already running game, is there an easy way to do so :P?
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15:20<TheBlasphemer> has some instructions, but they make use the the GUI, which I don't have ;)
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15:24<Eddi|zuHause2>load the game in a local client, add grf, save, load in server
15:24<TheBlasphemer>Bah, that's ugly :P
15:24<TheBlasphemer>But sounds reasonable ;)
15:25<Rubidium>TheBlasphemer: changing NewGRFs in a running network game will never be possible
15:28<kyevan>Seems to me like it would be a bad thing to do that anyway - what do you do if one of the clients doesn't have the new NewGRF?
15:30<kyevan>Also, does anyone know if there are plans to 'fix' the Toyland to Mars conversion to use the origional industries?
15:31<Gonozal_VIII>battery farms on mars or what do you mean?
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15:32<kyevan>The TT+WE Mars was just reskinned Temprate
15:32<Gonozal_VIII>a toyland to brickland conversion would be more fun :-)
15:32<kyevan>But the Toyland to Mars conversion uses the toyland chains and names.
15:33<Gonozal_VIII>ah... haven't tested that in openttd
15:33<TheBlasphemer>Rubidium: I can restart the server, I just don't want to throw our uber-stations away ;)
15:33<TheBlasphemer>Saving and changing locally did the trick though :)
15:33<kyevan>Toyland to Toyland with less garish graphics might be fun.
15:33<kyevan>I kinda like the idea of toyland, but, my eyes! They bleed!
15:34<Gonozal_VIII>have you seen brickland?
15:34<Eddi|zuHause2>kyevan: you can probably attempt the mars conversion with newgrf industries
15:35<kyevan>Gonozal_VIII: No...
15:35<Gonozal_VIII>with lego tiles :-) would be a very nice toyland replacement
15:36<Gonozal_VIII>in 8bpp...
15:36<Eddi|zuHause2>they are NOT Lego® tiles
15:36<kyevan>Eddi|zuHause2: They are lego tiles, though.
15:36<kyevan>"lego", lower case, has come to mean generic Lego-like toys, as well.
15:36<hylje>compatible with all major building blocks
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15:37<kyevan>Just like kleenix isn't just the one brand, you say 'google' when you mean any search engine, etc.
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15:37<Eddi|zuHause2>kyevan: yeah, try to hold up that argument in court
15:38<Gonozal_VIII>well... i'm not the creator so it doesn't matter how i call it
15:39<kyevan>Eddi|zuHause2: You probably couldn't call it 'legoland', but useing the term 'lego' to discribe the appearence is probably OK
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15:39<Eddi|zuHause2>but it's called brickland
15:40<Eddi|zuHause2>there is no lego in there
15:40<kyevan>I don't see how slopes are not going to look really 'steppy', though.
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15:40<Sacro>lego has sloped tiles
15:40<Sacro>just use a slope with 4x1 at the top
15:40<Sacro>or 2x1, whatever
15:40<Gonozal_VIII>why should they not look steppy? look at the screenshots... that steppy look is nice :-)
15:40<kyevan>Eddi|zuHause2: But brickland is designed to look like the world is built out of Legos or similar toys, you have to agree that.
15:41<kyevan>Gonozal_VIII: It'll make rails look odd, for one :P
15:41<Eddi|zuHause2>no, i don't.
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15:41<Gonozal_VIII>again... look at the screenshots ;-)
15:41<Eddi|zuHause2>who are you to tell me what i have to agree to?
15:42<Eddi|zuHause2>lego is not even the first plastic construction brick set i have known...
15:42<Eddi|zuHause2>and also not the second
15:42<kyevan>Eddi|zuHause2: It is the best-known
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15:42<Gonozal_VIII>anyways... it's toyish, it doesn't hurt the eyes, it's good to replace toyland
15:43<kyevan>And I also said 'or similar toys'
15:43<Eddi|zuHause2>maybe where you live...
15:43<Noldo>why replace?
15:43<Gonozal_VIII>replace as a grf like toyland to mars
15:44<Noldo>why can't we have more climates
15:45<Gonozal_VIII>doesn't matter much... you can turn the grf on and off easily and can't play both climates at the same time anyways
15:48<kyevan>*Actually, that gives me an idea
15:50<Gonozal_VIII>yay ideas
15:50<kyevan>Why don't we (meaning someone who actually knows his or her way around the source >_>) add a "GRF set" option, so players can define sets they like to use alot (Like, "Toyland Climate with the Mars Conversion" or "Temperate with trams", etc
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15:52<austin_>hey, im trying to get the noai branch from the subversion repository to run; can anyone help?
15:52<Gonozal_VIII>i agree that the newgrf settings window where you have to add/change every grf one by one is not the fastest solution... most of the time i copy and past directly into the cfg
15:52<austin_>everything compiles fine, but when i start openttd, it just exits normally
15:53<Eddi|zuHause2>austin_: what does openttd -h say in the section "video drivers"?
15:54<austin_>List of video drivers:
15:54<austin_> sdl: SDL Video Driver
15:54<austin_> null: Null Video Driver
15:54<austin_> dedicated: Dedicated Video Driver
15:54<austin_>er, wrong binary
15:54<austin_>List of video drivers:
15:54<austin_> null: Null Video Driver
15:54<austin_> dedicated: Dedicated Video Driver
15:54<austin_>its all coming together now :)
15:54<Eddi|zuHause2>yeah, that is more what i expected ;)
15:54<austin_>how do i enable sdl?
15:54<Eddi|zuHause2>you need to install sdl-devel package
15:55<+glx>and configure should detect it
15:56<austin_>good deal. in case someone asks, in ubuntu its "libsdl-dev"
15:56<Eddi|zuHause2>that's probably called differently everywhere ;)
15:58<austin_>yeah, its just especially irritating in ubuntu because they try and enforce their own naming scheme on all their packages
15:59<austin_>is there a canonical ai written in c++ to look at? the ones on the wiki are all squirrel
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15:59<Eddi|zuHause2>it is recommended to make squirrel AIs
16:01<+glx>there's no need to recompile after each small change :)
16:02<austin_>i know; i was just wondering :) ive got a lot of time on my hands, so i figured i'd start doing bug fixes for openttd since i've played so much of it
16:02<austin_>and it would be nice to start with something easier like ai programming to learn the api
16:03<Rubidium>the AI API is vastly different from the rest of the 'core' of OpenTTD
16:03<Rubidium>but in src/ai/NoAI there is a C++ 'AI'
16:03<austin_>ok, just recompiled; everything works now. thanks for the help
16:05<TheBlasphemer>hmmmz... Could it be the trams grf is causing desyncs?
16:05<Eddi|zuHause2>austin_: it's just a very common problem ;)
16:06<TheBlasphemer>Server used to be really stable to me, and now that I've enabled trams it's throwing me out randomly :S
16:06<Eddi|zuHause2>TheBlasphemer: changing grf midgame is never a really safe thing to do
16:09<Eddi|zuHause2>it _might_ go well, but it is not guaranteed to
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16:39<austin_>NoAI doesnt have an api for railroads yet, right?
16:40<Rubidium>that is right
16:40<Rubidium>actually, the API is far far from finished
16:40<austin_>is it under development by someone, or is the field there wide open?
16:40<Rubidium>currently nobody is actively developing the API
16:41<Rubidium>primarily due to time contraints
16:41<austin_>oh :)
16:41<austin_>if someone else starts working on it, are there still devs around to answer questions?
16:42<Rubidium>not 24/7 though
16:42<Gonozal_VIII>hmm almost
16:45<Rubidium>4am-6am CET everybody is asleep
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16:46<Gonozal_VIII>nope :D (looking through my logs)
16:48<Rubidium>glx is (usually) the last to go to bed around 4-5am. I'm usually the first between 6 and 7am
16:50<+glx>and you may see Belugas during the gap, but it's very rare
16:50<Eddi|zuHause2>i have quite often seen Belugas going to bed roughly at the same time as i am ;)
16:51<Eddi|zuHause2>i really should move towards GMT-5 at some point ;)
16:51<+glx>same for me ;)
16:51<Gonozal_VIII>and me...
16:51<Gonozal_VIII>most of my logs end at around 3:30
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16:53<Prof_Frink>logs... end?
16:53<Eddi|zuHause2>what he said.
16:53<Gonozal_VIII>yeeees mine do
16:53<Gonozal_VIII>as i don't have a bouncer or stuff like that
16:54<Eddi|zuHause2>who needs a bouncer?
16:54<Prof_Frink>alan@frinketto:~/irclogs/oftc$ wc -l \#openttd.log
16:54<Prof_Frink>73689 #openttd.log
16:54<Prof_Frink>No bouncing involved
16:55<Gonozal_VIII>i don't know what that means...
16:55<Gonozal_VIII>i meant the logs that my client creates while i'm here...
16:56<Gonozal_VIII>for full logs i just type !logs and click the link :-)
16:56<Eddi|zuHause2>'wc' == "word count" '-l' == "count lines instead" '\#openttd.log' == the filename
16:56<Eddi|zuHause2>it is really simple...
16:56<Prof_Frink>Oh, and another 12191 from the old #openttd
16:57<pavel1269>glx: do you have somewhere instalation of KPF?
16:57<pavel1269>i eman the old one
16:58<+glx>I only have the sunbelt one
16:58<Prof_Frink>...and 149958 lines of #tycoon
16:58<Gonozal_VIII>i don't know how many lines it has but it's 2,31mb uncompressed
16:58<pavel1269>okay, i am missiong "security of system" tab
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16:59<Gonozal_VIII>4246 lines
16:59<Prof_Frink>alan@frinketto:~/irclogs/oftc$ du -sh \#openttd.log
16:59<Prof_Frink>4.8M #openttd.log
17:00<Prof_Frink>OK, the -s wasn't needed
17:00<Gonozal_VIII>(opened it in crimson editor)^^
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17:01<Prof_Frink>Gonozal_VIII: I could in theory do these tests and output to IRC without leaving my client
17:01<Gonozal_VIII>weeeeell... i don't need that
17:01<Eddi|zuHause2>i can also open a Konsole within Konversation ;)
17:02<Prof_Frink>Eddi|zuHause2: Now you make me want to do strange things
17:02<Gonozal_VIII>and i don't like that very much because i can't remember commands
17:03<Prof_Frink>Namely: Open Konversation, open konsole inside it, ssh to my server, reattach the screen session and IRC from an IRC client.
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17:19<wombat>does anyone know of a train speed editor?
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17:20<wombat>I want to change the speeds of a few trains.
17:20<Prof_Frink>wombat: For openTTD you need to either make a newgrf or hack the source
17:20<wombat>whats a good grf editor?
17:21<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11650 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix: 'initialised' NewGRFs could still be deactivated in the later 'activation' pass.
17:23<+glx>notepad ;)
17:25<wombat>ah ok, ill go poke around
17:26<wombat>hmmm, grf's open into machine code
17:32<Eddi|zuHause2>wombat: you might want to use grfcodec first ;)
17:32<Gonozal_VIII>the actions are good described there, the only thing i couldn't get to work is the palette colour stuff...
17:38<wombat>if i wish to open an original grf and simply tweak speed, how do i open the grf into a formatable state?
17:38<Rubidium>the original GRF does not contain said information
17:38<Gonozal_VIII>no? :S
17:38<Gonozal_VIII>has to be somewhere
17:39<Eddi|zuHause2>i'd search in src/table
17:39<wombat>which is located?
17:39<Eddi|zuHause2>in your local checkout
17:39<Gonozal_VIII>btw... what exacty do you want to change?
17:40<wombat>monoral engine to 400
17:40<Gonozal_VIII>bah monorail
17:40<wombat>ive got this massive system of monorail, and I cant be bothered to remake 150 trains in maglev lol
17:40<Eddi|zuHause2>now you need to consider the tradeoff... is it easier for you to install grfcodec, and learn a few lines of grf
17:40|-|Digitalfox [] has joined #openttd
17:41<Eddi|zuHause2>or set up a compiler, find the line in the source, and compile your own binary
17:41<Gonozal_VIII>150 trains shouldn't be that hard to upgrade... depending on how many shared orders groups they are in
17:41<wombat>many different groups, its a pretty complicated system
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17:43<wombat>the alternative is to build a maglev depot, make each train and then copy orders but that would take a fair while
17:43<wombat>plus i wldnt mind messing around with a few other fast trains
17:44<Gonozal_VIII>you can let a monorail train enter a monorail depot, sell it, upgrade the depot, buy a maglev train and the new train has the orders from the sold monorail train
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17:45<wombat>bah, anyone know where one can download faster than normal train grf's, already made and ready to go ones?
17:45<Gonozal_VIII>the train grfs i know are slower...
17:46<wombat>yea thats what ive seen.
17:46<Gonozal_VIII>it's fun to start the game with a 16km/h narrow gauge train :-)
17:46<Eddi|zuHause2>you really sound like "i am too lazy to solve my problem, i demand someone else solve it for me in the next 20 seconds!"
17:47|-|xintron [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:48<wombat>I havent demanded, only asked for other peoples information.
17:49|-|lugo [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:49<wombat>seems i may jus need to learn some grf coding then ^^
17:49<Eddi|zuHause2>meaning is not only made up by the words you say
17:50<wombat>and understanding is not only made up of the meaning you percieve
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17:51<wombat>anyway, What i was hoping for was a modern version of the old ttdlx editor
17:51<wombat>train editor*
17:51<wombat>dosnt seem to exsist :(
17:52<Eddi|zuHause2>i heard of plans for some kind of grfwizard, i don't know how that turned out
17:52<Gonozal_VIII>my personal opinion: you don't need that fast trains
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17:53<wombat>no, its why the last 200 years of that level have been in monorail, 210mph is pretty fast
17:53<wombat>i just wanted to maybe up it to 300 for a cross level route.
17:53<wombat>it can end up taking a while to cross 2048 by 2048 lol
17:57<wombat>so how long has everyone been playing this game? I got it the year it came out and have kept coming back to it atleast once a year, for a addictive few weeks or months, since then
17:59<Eddi|zuHause2>you hear similar stories all over the place ;)
17:59<Gonozal_VIII>i got ttd from a games magazine cd some years ago... but i never did well back then, i started to get better when i found openttd, that was somewhere around revision 4000 or something...
17:59<Gonozal_VIII><-- bad memory
18:00<wombat>1996 is the first release date i was 8 when i got it lol
18:00<Eddi|zuHause2>i got the TT demo in some game pack, my brother then bought TT for extremely high price
18:00<Ondalf_Stardust>i played the demo at 1995-1996 and got TT from friend 1997. since then. at least once in year for about month straight on :) i found openttd for PPC mac about 2-3 years ago. i used ttdpatch when was playing with winxp (when i played on pc). now i got linux at my desktop and i use openttd, same goes to my titanium powerbook. OpenTTD, the name of the game ;)
18:01<wombat>lol its so damn addictive
18:01<Ondalf_Stardust>ehm, or was it released at 1995? ;) cannot remember. too old thing u know :P
18:01<wombat>and im glad they made openttd to overcome some of the limitations in the original
18:01<Eddi|zuHause2>i played TT(+WE) for years
18:01<Gonozal_VIII>they don't make games like that anymore
18:02<Eddi|zuHause2>i can't decide wether i or my brother is more addicted ;)
18:02<wombat>question is, who wins at multiplayer?
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18:03<Eddi|zuHause2>the one with the most efficient network
18:03<Gonozal_VIII>i never played multiplayer against other people... only coop
18:03<wombat>coop is kwl
18:03<Ondalf_Stardust>simcity 4 was addictive for like week, but after getting problems with commuter time, i changed back to OTTD. Now i got 2048x256 map with one company. my housemates (or roommates) have helped me with that one big layout :)
18:03<Eddi|zuHause2>there is a score system
18:03<Eddi|zuHause2>my latest addiction is civ4 ;)
18:04<wombat>didnt get on well with that game
18:04<wombat>although if im not playing transport im playing EVE, not much time for other games with university and things
18:04<Ondalf_Stardust>oh, greetings from finland. we got snow here and so on... santaclaus is almost my neighbour (i live at arctic circle, not that pole -thing)
18:05<Eddi|zuHause2>i got to TTD with TTDPatch 1.6 or something
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18:05<Ondalf_Stardust>i'm from there :) and for those who got stereotypics from finland, we got no reindeers as pets and polar bear aren't my friends.
18:05<Eddi|zuHause2>and later to OTTD around r33xx
18:05<Gonozal_VIII>kids seem to like openttd... happend at least two times to me that i was sitting in a train, playing openttd and some kids saw that and watched me playing and asked me questions
18:06<Tefad>no, you just have weird guys who write OS kernels.
18:06<Ondalf_Stardust>Tefad: haha :)
18:06<Tefad>and speak swedish of all things
18:06<wombat>anyone playing in 32bb?
18:06<wombat>or still the normal?
18:06<Tefad>i don't know the difference. i'm always in 32bpp
18:07<Ondalf_Stardust>Gonozal_VIII: also my girlfriend like that. yesterday i taught her track building and overall transportation with trains
18:07<Tefad>i can't get my friends into ottd
18:07<Ondalf_Stardust>Tefad: we speak finnish, but mock swedes :p
18:07<wombat>tefad, are all the graphics in there 32bb or do you still have a mix of old and new?
18:07<Tefad>wombat: i don't think i have any 32bpp graphics
18:07<Gonozal_VIII>not all graphics exist in 32bpp yet
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18:08<wombat>yea its rather annoying, im not upgrading till its all 32bpp it looks odd otherwise lol
18:08<Rubidium>Gonozal_VIII wins the understatement of the week award!
18:08<Tefad>Ondalf_Stardust: i think linus comes from one of the regions that doesn't speak much finnish but mostly swedish
18:08<Eddi|zuHause2>Ondalf_Stardust: maybe you can clear things up for me, is Conan o'Brien really such a big "star" in finland as he always claims?
18:08<Ondalf_Stardust>Eddi|zuHause2: not sure. but i use to watch that show :)
18:09<Eddi|zuHause2>it's a shame they only show 2 episodes per week here...
18:09<Gonozal_VIII>should i know that?
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18:10<Eddi|zuHause2>Gonozal_VIII: american late night comedian
18:10<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11651 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_industries.cpp newgrf_industrytiles.cpp): -Codechange [FS#1555]: implement GRF parameter querying for industries and fix a 'bug' as side effect.
18:10<Eddi|zuHause2>and he's really good ;)
18:10<Gonozal_VIII>where do they show that?
18:11<Eddi|zuHause2>here, on CNBC Europe
18:11<Gonozal_VIII>i don't have that
18:11<Eddi|zuHause2>saturday and sunday 21:45 CET
18:11<Eddi|zuHause2>you can get it on ASTRA (digital)
18:12<Gonozal_VIII>can't recieve sattelite tv here
18:12<Ondalf_Stardust>Tefad: not actually. he was born in helsinki which is our capital and i think there's more finns than finn-sweds
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18:12<Gonozal_VIII>bad mountain between the sattelite and me
18:13<Eddi|zuHause2>climb on top of the mountain, put dish there ;)
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18:13<Rubidium>or remove the mountain
18:13<Eddi|zuHause2>use the terraforming tool ;)
18:13<Gonozal_VIII>we have a collective dish at the lake for the whole valley and they only add recievers for stations that lots of people want to watch
18:13<Ondalf_Stardust>just take a little loan and remove that
18:13<UnderBuilder>a question: besides coal, what resource do you recommend me for starting with?
18:14<Ondalf_Stardust>wood is good too
18:14<Gonozal_VIII>sand :-)
18:14<Eddi|zuHause2>Gonozal_VIII: and you are certain nobody would watch a business channel like CNBC?
18:15<Gonozal_VIII>in a 900 people town that consists mostly of people that can't understand english?
18:15<Ondalf_Stardust>coal and wood network. in winter map i always start with wood -> paper mill and transport that paper to place which makes papers to goods
18:16<UnderBuilder>iron? I can generate from there steel and from it goods
18:16<Ondalf_Stardust>UnderBuilder: after you got good network with profit, you can move to farms. yeah, iron ore is good too.
18:16<Ondalf_Stardust>iron ore -> steel mill, steel -> factory
18:16<Digitalfox>Rubidium: FS#1555 thank you :)
18:16<Eddi|zuHause2>Gonozal_VIII: but you can also get the shows at "the usual sites" :p
18:17<UnderBuilder>only one processing industry?
18:17<UnderBuilder>or should I use multiple ones?
18:17<Gonozal_VIII>hehe but not without the knowledge about its existance
18:18<Ondalf_Stardust>UnderBuilder: sorry for my misunderstand, but can you say that "only one processing industry" other way... i miss the point for some reason
18:18<Tefad>His family belongs to the Swedish-speaking minority (roughly 6%) of Finland's population.
18:18<Gonozal_VIII>they have a production limit, i think it's somewhere around 40k crates of goods
18:18<UnderBuilder>I mean transporting all the coal to one power station only or to two or more?
18:19<Gonozal_VIII>with power stations it doesn't matter
18:20<Gonozal_VIII>but... longer way = more payment... so one industry in every corner or something like that could be useful
18:20<Ondalf_Stardust>depends on a map. in our project (2048x256) we got 3 different regions. every of them has a littlebit different transportation network and they aren't connected
18:20<UnderBuilder>and how do I search a location with much coal stations?
18:20<Gonozal_VIII>what game version do you play with?
18:21<Gonozal_VIII>then you can switch off all the other industries in the map view
18:21<Ondalf_Stardust>UnderBuilder: if that's your first time and also first begin with network, just look for good site with many coal stations around one power plant. make a moneymaker from it
18:22<Gonozal_VIII>a good moneymaker can be a single line between a distant mine and a power plant
18:23<Ondalf_Stardust>Gonozal_VIII: haven't tried that yet :)
18:23<Svish>where can I find a changelog for openttd nightly versions?
18:23<Svish>the one on the download page only shows a few
18:23<Ondalf_Stardust>do you ppl use some patch which makes industries easier increase production than decrease?
18:23<Gonozal_VIII>after some time you can add some double track to let more trains pass until you have a full one way system
18:24<Gonozal_VIII>i use ecs industries, they work completely different
18:24<UnderBuilder>or should I start a passengers network?
18:25<Gonozal_VIII>passengers can also be easy money
18:25<Gonozal_VIII>well... everything is easy money^^
18:25<Eddi|zuHause2>some people play all-passenger games
18:26<Ondalf_Stardust>Gonozal_VIII: would you like to explain a little about those industries?
18:26<Ondalf_Stardust>and are those compatible with latest nightly or SVN?
18:27<Svish>thank you :)
18:27<Gonozal_VIII>those are the ecs vectors i use
18:27<Svish>how does multiplayer work anyways? cause the time it takes to play a game... lol...
18:28<Svish>or is it like counter-strike and stuff, where you can just... join and build some, and leave and stuff?
18:28<Gonozal_VIII>yes you can leave and join again later
18:28<Svish>maybe I will try that sometime then..
18:28<Gonozal_VIII>but you should set a company password
18:29<+glx>it's safer
18:29<Svish>where do I do that? in the game?
18:29<Gonozal_VIII>or somebody else could join the company and do stuff you don't want
18:29<Svish>i see..
18:29<Svish>are newbies welcome? :p
18:29<BigBB>What is prefered for patches? or ? I see no activity on the maillist, but on flyspray.
18:30<Gonozal_VIII>everybody was a newbie^^
18:30<UnderBuilder>will be nice a game where each company transports only one cargo type
18:30<UnderBuilder>so there is a company for passengers and mail... other for coal... other for grain/livestock...
18:30<Svish>Gonozal_VIII: well.. yeah.. but I usually have a tendency to join games when no one is a newbie anymore, and everyone are crazy good and I dont have a chance =/ :p
18:31<Gonozal_VIII>you don't have to play against the others... play with them, look how they build, ask questions and you will learn fast
18:32<Digitalfox>BigBB: I guess FS is better, since it has more activity :)
18:32<Svish>thats true
18:33<BigBB>Digitalfox: I think so, too (especially devs are rare there). But my last info was: that is the new and one place for patches...
18:34<UnderBuilder>any server where my idea is being used?
18:35<Svish>does anyone use the timetable feature?
18:35<Gonozal_VIII>i don't know all servers but i think no
18:35<Svish>is it just for monitoring? or?
18:35<Digitalfox>BigBB: Post on FS and then if a dev thinks it's better in mail list they will move it or ask you too :)
18:35<Svish>tried to run the autofill thing, but not much happend..
18:35<Gonozal_VIII>i don't fully understand how that timetable thing is supposed to work^^
18:36<Svish>yeah, i dont have a clue either
18:36<BigBB>Digitalfox: Make a FS task and a maillist post to this link?! I think I do this .... :)
18:37<Digitalfox>BigBB: Why not ? :)
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19:47<BigBB>Comments to ?
19:50<Gonozal_VIII>yay :-)
19:50<Gonozal_VIII>newwater is nice but the missing shores suck
19:54<Digitalfox>Gonozal_VIII: Well that's what the BigBB patch also do if i'm not mistaken, or i might not understanded what you mean :|
19:55<Gonozal_VIII>that's why i wrote yay
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20:01<BigBB>Digitalfox: in a second step (and patch) it will fix it, yes. This patch only include the possibility to show this (corner shores) alternatively with original or newGRF sprites. Also it fix a main 05-0D problem (the think what frosch wrote)
20:03<Digitalfox>It's a nice work BigBB :)
20:03<BigBB>Thanks :)
20:03<Digitalfox>I love your patch :)
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20:35<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r11652 /trunk/src/ (8 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: add the svn $ header for several files
20:36|-|Gonozal_VIII_ changed nick to Gonozal_VIII
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20:55<UnderBuilder>smatz a dev?
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20:56<SmatZ>UnderBuilder yes...
20:57<UnderBuilder>who more has been made a dev?
21:01<UnderBuilder>I was a bit outdated
21:02<UnderBuilder>last one I noticed was maedhros
21:03<SmatZ>UnderBuilder: I am just asking if you are not some of master OTTD dev under some unknown nickname :-)
21:04<UnderBuilder>no, I have no connection with any developer of openttd
21:04<UnderBuilder>I'm a casual player :S
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21:13<BigBB>hmm, maedhros is a dev since over a year IIRC, so you are very outdated UnderBuilder :)
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21:28<BigBB>Sacro: a nice new feature :)
21:28<Sacro>BigBB: indeed
21:28<Sacro>thats more like a desync
21:41<kyevan>Sacro: Er... oops >_>
21:41<Sacro>heh :p
21:44<BigBB>I was sur I can drive drunken...
21:57<kyevan>The first looks like what you get on #openttdcoop on a bad day, actually :P
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22:01|-|UnderBuilder changed nick to Cats
22:01<Cats>how are you gentlemen!!
22:01<Cats>all your base are belong to us
22:01<Cats>you are on the way to destruction
22:01<Cats>you have no chance to survive make your time
22:02|-|Cats changed nick to UnderBuilder
22:02<UnderBuilder>oh no!
22:02<UnderBuilder>take off every 'zig'!
22:02<UnderBuilder>for great justice!
22:02[~]kyevan sets UnderBuilder on fire
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22:31<laz0r>are there servers where you can build cool 'networks' cooperativly?
22:32<laz0r>or is it standard behaviour to just destroy everything as soon as someone attempts to make a 'coop company'
22:32<laz0r>that is, opening a game and not setting a password (both the game and the company)
22:33<laz0r>as you may guess, i already tried
22:33<+glx>well, there are lame users everywhere
22:34<+glx>and the only way to prevent this is game password and company password
22:34<+glx>even for coop games
22:34<laz0r>i had hoped the amount of lame users would be minimal enough with a game like openttd
22:34<laz0r>but it seems the community is more 'active' then i thought
22:35<laz0r>which is of course also a good thing
22:35<laz0r>btw. i just started playing the game two days ago
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---Logclosed Mon Dec 17 00:00:52 2007