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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-12-24

---Logopened Mon Dec 24 00:00:12 2007
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02:38<_Ben_>If anybody is actually here: Does anybody have any idea where the 2nd set of 'rock' sprites appear? There seems to be 2 sets, one which is rocky to the tile edge, and 1 with grass around the sides, I can't seem to find the later in game.
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04:26<pavel1269>*hi :)
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04:54<hylje>someone needs to implement a multithreading designer in ottd
04:54<hylje>and use that to multithread ottd
04:54<hylje>e.g. threads are trains
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05:20<qball>that is going to be an awfull lot of threads
05:25<qball>your overhead would be killing
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06:35<blathijs>qball: hylje: The bigger problem would be the need for syncrhonization
06:35<blathijs>Because the advantage of threads is that you can use multiple cores/cpu's
06:36<blathijs>but the disadvantage of threads is that multiple cores/cpu's could be used and run in parallel
06:36<blathijs>so you need locking :-)
06:37<qball>still your os won't like it if you run 500+ threads
06:37<blathijs>That too :-)
06:38[~]blathijs is off
06:38<qball>btw.. the beta is
06:38<qball>realy realy realy nice
06:38<qball>(realy realy realy )^99 nice
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06:48<SmatZ>threads in ottd have been tested and haven't proved as useful
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06:56<FRkubik>nick FR^2
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07:02<pavel1269>SmatZ: why playing with 32bpp-anim is so much slower than others? :/
07:03<pavel1269>just animations :)
07:04<pavel1269>it's almost killing my pc :/
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07:29<FR^2>For which phrases should I search in which forums, when I want to search for discussions concerning graphics of the railway signals?
07:30<FR^2>Most of my friends have difficulties seeing/recognizing the rail signals since they are so damn small...
07:31<FR^2>I wondered whether there is a discussion on the forums for "enhancing" the look of the signals or even "doubling the resolution" of the whole game so that one can use the signals and other small things easier.
07:34<TheMask97>just zoom in?
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07:35<FR^2>What do you mean, zoom in? There isn't a zoom factor "more scaled" than 1:1, is there? I'm talking about the latest beta
07:35<Digitalfox>Could blitter 32-anim receive more optimizations in future to be less slower? Or it's already at full optimization on code?
07:36<SmatZ>pavel1269: well... even 8bpp animations are killing my PC :) if it helps you ;)
07:37<Digitalfox>SmatZ: Is 8bpp and blitter already at maximum optimization at the code, or there may be more optimizations to do?
07:37<Digitalfox>Is 8bpp and 32bpp blitter already at maximum optimization at the code, or there may be more optimizations to do?
07:38<SmatZ>Digitalfox: there is ever some space for optimizatins, but a lot of effort has been put into optimizing it already
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07:38<SmatZ>at least 8bpp
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07:39<Digitalfox>ok, it's just that 32bpp-anim is really slow, but i do understand that 32bpp animations are a lot more cpu heavy, still maybe some optimizations could be done
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07:41<SmatZ>well... I don't know - the game is unplayable for me with each 32bpp blitter, I haven't looked into that for long time
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07:46<Digitalfox>SmatZ: yeah, is just that 32bpp without animations, well just imagine the water fixed.. The powerplants with no smoke, airports with no animationa lights, radar, etc... :(
07:46<FR^2>TheMask97: Is there a way to zoom in to get the signals displayed more clearly?
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07:47<TheMask97>FR^2: sorry, I haven't played the beta yet, I thought you meant the current stable version
07:48<FR^2>TheMask97: In the current stable version that is possible? *big eyes* I'm trying.
07:49<SmatZ>FR^2: current beta doesn't have any zoom-in modes, and most likely eve 0.6 won't have
07:49<FR^2>Aaah, I see. Well, then my friends and I will have to stick with 0.5.3
07:50<SmatZ>FR^2: the problem is that the Windows Ctrl+D was nonportable and hard to maintain
07:51<FR^2>Is there any other way? A completely new tileset that is twice as big or something like that to make that game more playable?
07:52<Eddi|zuHause2>brb, have to move the computer to another room
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07:58<FR^2>Erm... You're kidding, aren't you? Where in 0.5.3 is there a zoom level more magnified than 1:1?
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08:05<SmatZ>FR^2: if you are using Windows, press Ctrl+D to have "doubled" pixels
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08:34<pavel1269>13:46 <Digitalfox> SmatZ: yeah, is just that 32bpp without animations, well just imagine the water fixed.. The powerplants with no smoke, airports with no animationa lights, radar, etc... :( ------ yeah same here, tahts why i asked :/
08:37<+glx>radar still turns (only palette animation is disabled)
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08:44<FR^2>SmatZ: Thanks, I'll try at my friend's computer ;)
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08:58<SmatZ>pavel1269: Digitalfox you can use 32bpp-anim blitter to have water animated
08:58<+glx>but it's "slower"
08:58<SmatZ>yes... but even 32bpp-optimized is slow
08:58<SmatZ>at least for me
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08:59<+glx>anim is based on optimized
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09:05<pavel1269>optimized runs ok, anim is dead for me :X
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09:30<NDRS>i have a question
09:31<NDRS>how to upgrade all ships on the same time in TTDLX? :)
09:32<Eddi|zuHause>which version?
09:33<qball>howdy all
09:33<Digitalfox>Wouldn't it be possible to use some more GPU instead of CPU for 32bpp-anim, so CPU use would lower down?
09:33<NDRS>aum.. Open TTD
09:33<qball>version. is not the name
09:34<NDRS>I'm playing online with my older brother.. and he is just laughing at me :(
09:35<pavel1269>i would too :)
09:35<NDRS>best game on earth.. but im new to open ttd
09:36<pavel1269>best .. umm ... i don't know :)
09:37<pavel1269>but this game i've played for longest time
09:37<qball>ha my company from yesterday is still online
09:37<qball>lets see how much cash is there
09:37<qball>yesterday I hit the pounds
09:38<qball>ha pounds
09:39<qball>ha ha , drawing error
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09:41<qball> <-- look at graph
09:41<SmatZ>qball: what version are you using?
09:41<qball>the beta
09:41<SmatZ>it has been fixed already, ok :)
09:42<qball>hmmm I wonder what the best tactic is to upgrade from rail to maglev
09:42<SmatZ>send all trains to depot, sell them, convert track and build new trains
09:43<qball>lot's o work
09:43<SmatZ>you will need different number of trains because of different cargo capacities and different train speeds
09:44<FR^2>qball: Build a second depot, create equivalent trains with maglev, copy the plan from the others ;)
09:44<Eddi|zuHause>qball: use a trainset that does neither require this nor makes it viable
09:45<qball>bah, old trains are still making 800m pounds a year
09:45<qball>that's like 8m pounds each
09:45<Eddi|zuHause>e.g. the DBSetXL does not allow transportation of raw materials through maglev
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09:46<qball>I am laying that
09:46<qball>playing even
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09:46<qball>and goods?
09:47<Eddi|zuHause>i think it allows mail, goods and valuables, not sure
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11:42<_Ben_>hi, I asked this earlier, but I take it everyone was asleep, so I'll just ask again and see if anyone knows... How do I make the 2nd set of 'rocky' sprites (the rocks/grey-black landscape tiles) appear? They are the same as the first but without the grassy border
11:43<@Belugas>don't know waht you are talking about, _Ben_
11:43<@Belugas>care to show some visual clues?
11:43<_Ben_>Ok, I'll do sec
11:45<Gonozal_VIII>i know what you mean, decoded an looked at the file some days ago
11:45<Gonozal_VIII>don't know what they are for, maybe it was intended that they are placed if surrounding tiles are rocks too
11:47<_Ben_>Thats what geektoo also suggested, but I can't seem to make them appear that way.
11:47<_Ben_>For the people who didn't understand my discription > < I can't get the set that appear like B to appear
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11:49[~]Belugas searches
11:50<Gonozal_VIII>a full set would also require tiles with grass on one side, two sides three sides in different combinations and so on...
11:54<_Ben_>I'm surprised the original had 2 variations actually, it doesn't seem very convervative considering the amount of sprites available
11:54<@Belugas>set A is referenced by SPR_FLAT_ROCKY_LAND_1, set B by SPR_FLAT_ROCKY_LAND_2
11:54<@Belugas>so... where is the disctinction...
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12:00<@Belugas>_Ben_, i cannot tell you just right now
12:00<@Belugas>i'm at work, so i have little capabilities
12:00<@Belugas>but so far, it seems only set A is used, not B
12:01<_Ben_>Ok, not a problem, I won't be able to work on them for many days now anyway. I just searched through the differnet scenarios, I can't find the 2nd set anywhere
12:02<_Ben_>thanks for looking. I'm off now, Happy Christmas everyone
12:02<@Belugas>you too :D
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12:08<dihedral>merry x-mas ladies :-)
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13:46<narg>does anyone have a hint for boosting primary industry production in the latest nighlty?
13:46<narg>i searched forums for like 3 hours :/
13:47<narg>rating is around 74-80 but is staying at around 70 (for a forest)
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13:49<@Belugas>narg, try to make it so you pick up all the wood you can get. The better yu serve the station, the higher the rating
13:49<narg>distance from pick to drop is around 100 squares
13:50<@Belugas>drop does not matter. It's the pick part that does
13:50<narg>and four trains with cap 100 going there
13:50<narg>there are two lanes at forest pick
13:50<narg>there is a train waiting most of the time
13:51<narg>every 2 weeks or so a full train (100wood) is leaving pick to drop
13:51<@Belugas>there has to be one all the time if you want to increase rating. "no waiting" is the key
13:52<narg>but is it important how long it takes the trains to full-load?
13:52<narg>i tried to scale train capacity to production
13:53<@Belugas>that, i don't know
13:53<narg>how many years does it take to get a forest to produce say like 1000/month
13:53<@Belugas>but i doubt length of train is really important
13:53<narg>yap, i guess trainlenght needs to fit production rate
13:53<@Belugas>dunno, it's pretty random stuff, plus the rating
13:54<narg>otherwise there are loading to long, and that not good for the payment (time/distance)
13:54<narg>i checked 10 years on fast forward, good station rating, but the forest keeps production very low
13:54<@Belugas>payment is relevant by the time you leave the station and the time it takes for arrival
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13:55<narg>i thought it was calculated by first piece of cargo loaded
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13:56<narg>okay, thanks for the info
13:56<narg>say you have a train with 500wood capacity, but the forest only makes 32/month, so it takes ages to full-load
13:57<@Belugas>use more smaller trains
13:57<narg>> less money paid for the cargo loaded first
13:57<narg>of course i do :)
13:57<narg>my problem is just the production rate not incrreasing with the smooth eco....
13:58<narg>over years...
13:58<narg>wiki says a station rating of around 75% is optimal chance for increase in production.
13:59<narg>there is demand (train waiting at station) but the forest does not spit out more wood for them...
13:59<kyevan>I would have thought it would increase at least just as much in the 80s and 90s
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14:00<kyevan>no, 80% and 90% rating
14:00<narg>sirkoZ smooth economy patch got in trunk since 11500 right?
14:01<narg>it says if rating is >60 percent its a good chance to go up
14:01<narg>if <60 is goes down slowly to starting values
14:01<narg>i have never seen a prim industry producing more than 300units/month
14:01<narg>independently of the stationrating.... :(
14:03<narg>belugas: is sirkoZ smooth eco patch in the latest nightly (this night 2 am?)
14:03<kyevan>narg: Have you seen one producing more than 255?
14:03<narg>i have a forest spitting 302/month
14:04<kyevan>It's amazing how often that's the limit. It's not like an extra byte matters much <_<
14:04<kyevan>narg: ...
14:04<kyevan>302 > 300
14:04<@Belugas>it's not garanteed that industry will always increase. it's always changing. random stuff. And yes, there is some part of SirkoZ's patch in trunk
14:04<narg>3% i think
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14:04<narg>is the chance for increas if station rating is over 60%
14:05<@Belugas>kyevan, production is a byte, havuing a multiplier applied to it
14:05<narg>the max is around 2k for primary industriy as sirko says
14:06<narg>i tried to reach such prod-rates but no luck
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14:07<narg>well, with the actual nightly its better than in 11600, i had oil wells and farms with rates around 30grain/12livestock...
14:08<narg>oil wells going down to 24.000/month and then disapearing :)
14:08<narg>(for no reason)
14:09<hylje>oil wells disappear like that
14:09<hylje>they get replaced with offshore platforms
14:09<narg>ah okay
14:09<narg>but farms?
14:09<pavel1269>farms too? :/
14:09<narg>i have a lot of farms with 30/12 or forest with 30/month... that sucks
14:09<narg>sometimes a farm disapears :)
14:10<narg>but there is no replacement, like a new farm opening somehwere else with proper prod-rates
14:10<narg>hylie: so in 2000 you have no more wells and only platforms?
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14:11<hylje>more or less
14:11<narg>i will check the bugtracker
14:13<narg>hylje: have you spotted a primary industry spitting more than say 400 untis/month?
14:14<hylje>some 1.5k and 2k too
14:14<narg>how many trains/plattforms/rating?
14:14<hylje>a few tens of trains
14:14<hylje>~ 4 platforms
14:15<pavel1269>i am using 3*7 ...
14:15<pavel1269>to raw materials
14:15<pavel1269>always enought
14:16<narg>and your trains are waiting for ages to full-load?
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14:16<narg>i will try a 4x4 with 10 trains and distance 100 from pick to drop
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14:17<narg>its important how often a train leaves the station in a month (as wiki says)
14:17<Gonozal_VIII>yes, time since last train is a part of the rating
14:18<Gonozal_VIII>there should always be a train loading
14:18<narg>so shorter trains are better than longer trains if production is average
14:18<narg>later when they spit 1k or 2k of raw material it does not matter
14:18<hylje>really long trains are only useful for secondary / aggregated cargo
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14:18<narg>full ack
14:19<Gonozal_VIII>doesn't matter if long or short as long as there's always one at the station loading
14:19<narg>any more hints for boosting my primary industry production rates? :)
14:19<+glx>but for your finance it's better if the train doesn't spend month to load
14:19<Eddi|zuHause>i usually search for 2-3 raw material industries in an area, send short trains to a gathering station, and send long trains to the secondary industry
14:19<Gonozal_VIII>10% more
14:19<narg>for the rating
14:20<@Belugas>by the way, farms CAN be closed down. They are part of the ORGANIC type of industries. The only ones that will not have a chance to close down are those we call BLACK_HOLE, mainly the banks, the watertower, the powerstations and toy shops
14:20<Gonozal_VIII>i try to use trucks for that because it looks a bit more realistic :-)
14:20<@Belugas>evertything else can close down
14:20<narg>thx belugas
14:20<narg>that must be the reason for my farms collapsing for no reason :)
14:20<Gonozal_VIII>10% more rating means you also get 10% more of the produced cargo
14:20<+glx>and oil wells never increase
14:21<Gonozal_VIII>i know that picture
14:21<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, i have shown it before
14:22<narg>glx: oil wells only decreas :(
14:22<Eddi|zuHause>the short trains get wood and ore from the hills, the long trains bring to the saw mill and steel mill
14:22<narg>eddi could you reanme the pic?
14:22<narg>i canot open the link for some reason
14:23<Gonozal_VIII>just copy everything into the browser
14:23<narg>i tried
14:23<narg>i get this
14:23<hylje>copypaste it
14:23<Gonozal_VIII>the rest too
14:23<narg>because of the comma..?
14:23<+glx>you need the comma and after it
14:23<Eddi|zuHause>the comma never caused problem for anyone
14:24<narg>its a safari issue
14:24<narg>firefox is okay
14:24<+glx>blame apple ;)
14:24<narg>rüsselshorst :)
14:24<Eddi|zuHause>i don't remember the ascii value for comma...
14:24<narg>looks nice
14:24<Eddi|zuHause>otherwise you could replace it by %XX
14:24<narg>i bet they are doing full load and transfer service right?
14:24<+glx>ascii for dot +/- 1 IIRC
14:24<Eddi|zuHause>where XX is the (hex) value of comma
14:25<narg>eddi, is it Reichsmark?
14:25<Eddi|zuHause>DM was introduced in 1948/49
14:25<pavel1269>can i turn off samehow ... this: i.e. coal mines have 10% productivity and after year they got back? is this normal?
14:25<narg>how did you manage to get 461.769.460 RM in say 20 years
14:26<+glx>very easy :)
14:26<narg>or is 461million like 20.000DM :)
14:26<Eddi|zuHause>it's 4*20
14:26<narg>ah :)
14:26<Eddi|zuHause>and i set the factor to 20
14:26<pavel1269>inflation off all time :)
14:26<Eddi|zuHause>4 == daylength
14:26<Eddi|zuHause>inflation off
14:27<Eddi|zuHause>realistic inflation could be fun ;)
14:27<Eddi|zuHause>a factor of 1:
14:27<narg>i will try building a system like yours with transfer station
14:27<Eddi|zuHause>in 1922/23
14:27<@Belugas>we are quite limited regarding the inflation... i think the max we can handle is 4% or something in that zone
14:27<narg>prim industriy > short train > transfer drop > longer train picking up > Drop
14:28<Gonozal_VIII>you could abuse that, take full loan right before the inflation and buy trains
14:28<Eddi|zuHause>narg: the important thing about transfer is, you have to time it right so that cargo does not pile up in the intermediate station
14:29<narg>as on your picture :)
14:29<narg>looks like 1k waiting there
14:30<Gonozal_VIII>also the pickup train shouldn't stand around with 99% cargo waiting month for full load...
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14:30<narg>i know that from factories...
14:30<Gonozal_VIII>so large train capacity = multiple of small train capacity
14:31<narg>and frequent service
14:32<narg>the cargo ages when waiting to be transfered right?
14:32<Gonozal_VIII>as i said, i prefer trucks for that...
14:32<Gonozal_VIII>or narrow gauge :-)
14:32<narg>for the feeding service?
14:32<narg>its more realistic isnt it
14:32<Gonozal_VIII>but it doesn't age while it's being loaded at the source
14:32<Gonozal_VIII>so a huge train that takes years to load doesn't matter
14:33<narg>i will keep that in mind
14:33<narg>it counts, when the train is leaving the station
14:33<Gonozal_VIII>yes.... but not with transfer
14:33<narg>of course
14:34<narg>well thanks
14:34<narg>i am off for dinner
14:34<narg>thanks to everybody
14:34<narg>have a nice evening (xmas and stuff)
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14:34[~]narg is afk
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14:36<SpComb>Logs: (old: )
14:37<Gonozal_VIII>8h disconnect stuff again...
14:38<Eddi|zuHause><narg> looks like 1k waiting there <- it's bad programming on the newgrf station side, one small train unloading makes the station look full already
14:40<kyevan>Is there a limit to what they can hold?
14:41<Gonozal_VIII>is that newgrf cargo animation thing based on station size?
14:41<kyevan>Upper bound on a 32 bit unsigned int is my guess, but :P
14:41<Gonozal_VIII>cargo used to decay but i'm not sure if it still does that
14:42<Gonozal_VIII>if it does then a lot slower than before
14:45<Eddi|zuHause>kyevan: it used to be 4k, but that has been lifted with cargopackets
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14:47<Eddi|zuHause>Gonozal_VIII: i'm not sure if it can be done, but this one apparently isn't
14:57<Gonozal_VIII>would be really nice if you could count the pieces of wood at the station and know how much there is waiting... something like 100 tonnes per pile maybe
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15:14<kyevan>Can you change the difficulty options on a running dedicated server?
15:14<SmatZ>I just bought myself some games for really low prices for Chrismass (UFO - Trilogy, Commandos - Trilogy).... I hope I won't waste too much time with them :-D
15:14<kyevan>(Through rcon, or the direct console, I have access to both :P)
15:15<@Belugas>kyevan : no, unless you are not running a game ( or so i think )
15:16<kyevan>Belugas: Aw.
15:16<@Belugas>SmatZ: it's okay to play, you have until midnight :) then code!
15:16<kyevan>I wanted to turn off breakdowns, which i forgot to do ahead of time.
15:16[~]Belugas was joking
15:16<SmatZ>they are windows games, I have rebooted my notebook to windows - I am playing while coding ;-)
15:18<@Belugas>i am coding, not playing, and not for ottd and on win XP
15:18<Eddi|zuHause>kyevan: same procedure as every year
15:19<kyevan>Eddi|zuHause: Hmm?
15:19<Gonozal_VIII>dinner for one
15:19<kyevan>Anyway, how do I set breakdowns off in the config file?
15:20<Eddi|zuHause>load game locally, change setting, load game on the server
15:21<kyevan>sftp is slow as hell to transfer stuff, though >_>
15:21<Eddi|zuHause>changing the config will not affect your savegame
15:23<kyevan>OK, how do I do it, then I can start a new game? :P
15:23<Eddi|zuHause>there should be a wiki page about the meaning of the difficulty setting
15:26<kyevan>Why can't you change difficulty options from the console?
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15:33<@Belugas>kyevan, we have reasons for that. Like technical ones
15:34<@Belugas>been from the console or been with gui, they are the same
15:35|-|Zaviori [] has quit [Quit: ( :: NoNameScript 4.1 :: )]
15:36<kyevan>But... you CAN set it from the gui :P
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15:40<@Belugas>not every one of those
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15:43<Eddi|zuHause>"German narrator Heinz Piper originally made a grammatical mistake in his introduction to the 18 minute version: He misquoted Warden’s line “Same procedure as every year” as “Same procedure than every year”. While the mistake appears to have gone unnoticed initially, it later prompted annual protest letters to the NDR, most notably from German teachers of English. The NDR eventually responded by editing the recording slightly,
15:43<Eddi|zuHause>substituting a small bit of its audio track with audio recorded during one of the rehearsals. Thus, in 1988, the error had been edited out and Piper could be heard to correctly say “Same procedure as every year”. This in turn annoyed some purists who would rather respect the original."
15:43<Eddi|zuHause>you can never make everyone happy :p
15:44<Gonozal_VIII>that text included lots of signs that i couldn't read
15:46<Eddi|zuHause>they are opening and closing quotation marks
15:47<Gonozal_VIII>and a ' i guess
15:51<Gonozal_VIII>[21:43:19] Eddi|zuHause: you can never make everyone happy :p <-- think of energy production... they don't like water powerplants because they have to flood land for that, they don't like wind because they don't like how they look in the landscape, no matter what, there are people that don't like it
15:51<Eddi|zuHause>„The same procedure as last year, Miss Sophie?“ <- these are german style opening and closing quotation marks
15:52<dihedral>merry x-mas
15:52<dihedral>and cu :-)
15:55<Gonozal_VIII>i used that because of his "x-mas"
15:55<dihedral>frohe und gesegnete weihnacht Eddi :-)
15:56<Eddi|zuHause>i never really understood this "x-mas" thing...
15:56<@Belugas>night all! Merry Christmas, enjoy time :D
15:57<@Belugas>and see you soon
15:57<Gonozal_VIII>what? night? you're going to sleep now? O_o
15:58<Gonozal_VIII>strange time^^ but good night, merry christmas to you too
15:58<@Belugas>nope... it's onley 16:00 herre, but i know it's quite later in our timezeon :)
15:58<@Belugas>by the time ti will be MY night, you'll be sleeping drunk :D
15:58<Eddi|zuHause>but you also know that neither of us go to bed before 3AM our time :p
15:59<Gonozal_VIII>i don't drink and i don't think i'll be asleep by then ;-)
16:00<Gonozal_VIII>first season of battlestar galactica almost finished :D
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16:03<Eddi|zuHause>i did not find the first season that great
16:03<Eddi|zuHause>might be because of the translation though
16:04<Gonozal_VIII>that's why i'm downloading it in english
16:04<Gonozal_VIII>already saw it in tv in german
16:06<kyevan> Is it treason to listen to the music from SimCity Classic while playing TTD? >_>
16:06<Eddi|zuHause>season 3 is available in dual language, i might start watching in english...
16:06<Eddi|zuHause>i don't remember the music from sim city
16:06<Gonozal_VIII>i never play games with the music on
16:07<Eddi|zuHause>we had only PC Speaker back then
16:07<Eddi|zuHause>wasn't that great for music
16:07<Eddi|zuHause>except monkey island, that had an awesome music for pcspeaker
16:08<kyevan>SimCity Classic has this single midi track that's burned into my memory from when I was little
16:08<Gonozal_VIII>the squeaky sound effects of scorched earth...
16:08<kyevan>Of course, they never used even parts of it in the later SimCities >_>
16:08<Eddi|zuHause>i had a soundcard already when i got TT
16:08<Eddi|zuHause>i listened to the music very long
16:09<Eddi|zuHause>but now i don't turn it on anymore
16:09<Eddi|zuHause>i have amarok running in random mode most of the time
16:09<Gonozal_VIII>what's amarok?
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16:09<Eddi|zuHause>music player
16:10<Gonozal_VIII><-- winamp user
16:10<Eddi|zuHause>for kde
16:10<kyevan>Amarok > *, just about
16:10<kyevan>Except it's not working on windows, yet
16:10<Gonozal_VIII>winamp is very cool imho
16:10<Gonozal_VIII>well.. i guess everything is better than wmp
16:10<narg>winamp used to be cool in v3, but nowadays its so fat
16:11<narg>17mb like itunes :D
16:11<Eddi|zuHause>for songs that i do not like, i can give a rating <3, and it can filter those out of the playlist dynamically
16:11<narg>can play videos and stuff no one needs
16:11<Eddi|zuHause>song rating can be done by global hotkeys
16:11<narg>in winamp i used to have one big playlist with all files available and the superduper jump/search key :)
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16:12<Gonozal_VIII>yes that search thing is extremely cool
16:12<Gonozal_VIII>had a playlist with 18k songs and it searches them in realtime without any delay
16:12<narg>very fast
16:12<Eddi|zuHause>amarok has some problems with big playlists
16:13<Eddi|zuHause>with 4k songs it was quite slow
16:13<Gonozal_VIII>same with wmp
16:13<Eddi|zuHause>with 1,7k now it is ok
16:13<Gonozal_VIII>can't search anything there with several k songs
16:13<Eddi|zuHause>but i read that in amarok 2 they fixed that
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16:14<kyevan>I usually just use vlc, honestly
16:14<narg>for mp3s?
16:14<Eddi|zuHause>another correction, i have only 1,3k songs in the playlist
16:14<Gonozal_VIII>for music?
16:15<kyevan>It plays damn near anything, the default interface doesn't have any silly skinning or crap, it works
16:15<Gonozal_VIII>i use that for videos but for music?
16:15<kyevan>There's nothing good available for windows >_>
16:15<Gonozal_VIII>is there even a playlist management?
16:15<narg>on windoze i used foobar2000 for music: slick and fast
16:15<narg>kyevan: foobar
16:15<Gonozal_VIII>winamp is for windows
16:16<kyevan>Gonozal_VIII: I said there's nothing good.
16:16<kyevan>narg: I never liked foobar, dunno why
16:16<Gonozal_VIII>winamp is good :-)
16:16<kyevan>Gonozal_VIII: How do you turn off the ugly slow skining and use native widgets?
16:16<SmatZ>kyevan: the default console interface doesn't have any skins, nor any GUI ;-)
16:16<narg>winamp downstriped to bare playback is good, without that video stuff
16:16<kyevan>You cant, = not good.
16:17<Gonozal_VIII>i use the mmd3 skin :-)
16:17<narg>my "industry does not increase production rate"
16:17<narg>problem still exists..
16:17<narg>i simulated 15 years on 80% rating on fast forward
16:17<narg>no increase...
16:17<narg>a farm...
16:18<Gonozal_VIII>what game version?
16:18<Gonozal_VIII>used to be random no matter how the rating was
16:24<kyevan>Gonozal_VIII: EWWWWW!
16:24<kyevan>That looks NOTHING like the native interface!
16:25<Gonozal_VIII>what native interface?
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16:25<kyevan>The native Windows interface.
16:25<kyevan>Square and grey, but not quite as square and grey as Next.
16:26<Gonozal_VIII>my windows is round and grey
16:26<Gonozal_VIII>stealth os skin
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16:29<Gonozal_VIII>hmm i don't have a ftp program installed
16:29<Gonozal_VIII>any suggestions for a good one?
16:30<kyevan>Heh, actualyl.
16:30<kyevan>Someone should hack together a ttd-style skin for windows :P
16:30<Gonozal_VIII>well.. make one, it's not that hard
16:30<Gonozal_VIII>i guess^^
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16:50<Gonozal_VIII> <-- that's what my desktop looks like atm
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16:51<Gonozal_VIII>sr 71 :-)
16:51<Eddi|zuHause>the aliens DID land...
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17:30[~]kyevan hopes Dylan doesn't get too anoyed at him running for running an openttd server on his linode for a while>_>
17:31<@Bjarni>merry Christmas
17:32<Gonozal_VIII>thanks, you too
17:33<@Bjarni>now I should ban all of you for spending time online instead of with your families
17:33<Gonozal_VIII>they're all sleeping
17:33<Gonozal_VIII>first drinking than sleeping...
17:33<Gonozal_VIII>not than... pff
17:34<@Bjarni>you got a family of hill billies?
17:34<@Bjarni>drinking and sleeping
17:34<Gonozal_VIII>well it's christmas
17:34|-|narg [~narg@] has joined #openttd
17:35[~]Bjarni is sober
17:35<Gonozal_VIII>like me
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17:38<Eddi|zuHause>you poor individuals
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17:44<pavel1269>i sleep? where? :)
17:46<pavel1269>i dont see myself in the bed ^^
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17:47<Gonozal_VIII>not bed... czech republic then
17:48<pavel1269>i am certainly sure, i dont sleep
17:50<Gonozal_VIII>some weeks ago i told my grandmother that there will be a football match czechoslovakia against ddr and asked her who she thinks is gonna win... can't remember what she answered but she didn't realise anything strange
17:51<Eddi|zuHause>reminds me of "Goodbye, Lenin"
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18:00<pavel1269>Gonozal_VIII: czechoslovakia?!
18:00|-|Greyscale [] has quit []
18:00<Gonozal_VIII>yes and ddr
18:01<Gonozal_VIII>(eastern germany)
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18:03<pavel1269>Gonozal_VIII: czechoslovakia does not exist anymore :)
18:03<Gonozal_VIII>i know that ;-)
18:04<pavel1269>i am not sure :P
18:04<Eddi|zuHause>neither does DDR
18:05<Eddi|zuHause>that's the funny (or worrying) part of it
18:05<pavel1269>heh, now i understand that :))
18:07<Eddi|zuHause>my sister learned in 1st grade that it was called "CSFR" (that must have been around 1990)
18:07<Gonozal_VIII>free republic?
18:08<Eddi|zuHause>federal, i believe
18:08<Eddi|zuHause>they needed something to replace "socialistic", i assume ;)
18:08<Eddi|zuHause>they split up shortly afterwards
18:09<Gonozal_VIII>can't remember much of german merge, czech split or anything from back then...
18:10<Gonozal_VIII>can't even remember stuff from last year^^
18:10<Gonozal_VIII>well.. some...
18:10<@Bjarni>you just mentioned that your whole family went to bed drunk.... could be memory related events
18:11<Eddi|zuHause>"i told uncle willy not to touch me there"
18:12<Eddi|zuHause>(that's a quote from Veronica Mars btw.)
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18:13<Eddi|zuHause>one of the best series of the last few years, but of course they had to cancel it
18:14<Gonozal_VIII>they cancel every good series, that's what they do
18:15<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, like 4400
18:16<Gonozal_VIII>didn't see much of that
18:16<kyevan>DDR isn't a country anymore, this is a good thing.
18:16<@Bjarni>I have no idea of what you are talking about
18:16<@Bjarni>don't know any of those titles
18:16<kyevan>Otherwise, they'd have lots of people steping on them :P
18:16<Gonozal_VIII>i guess that's like lost... doesn't make any sense when you don't watch every episode
18:17<Gonozal_VIII>but... i don't know if lost makes sense at all
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18:20<Eddi|zuHause>definitely not if they don't get to finish it :p
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18:21<SpComb>Logs: (old: )
18:23<fjb>Did anybody here try the new North American City Set?
18:24<fjb>Looks like it is not working in OpenTTD.
18:25<Eddi|zuHause>i have never heard of that set
18:25<Gonozal_VIII>me neither
18:25<Gonozal_VIII>North American City Set v0.1a [25 Dec 2007] - Released !!
18:25<Gonozal_VIII>25. 12.^^
18:25<fjb>It is new. Was released yesterday.
18:26<fjb>Yes, that set.
18:26<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm looks a bit boring imho
18:27<Eddi|zuHause>25. is only 25 minutes old
18:27<Gonozal_VIII>same colours everywhere even for the small houses
18:27<fjb>It was released yesterday, the stated date is wrong.
18:27<Eddi|zuHause>have you ever seen american cities?
18:28<Gonozal_VIII>i didn't say that it doesn't look realistic... only boring
18:28<Eddi|zuHause>they have exactly the same house next to each other, hundreds of times
18:29<Gonozal_VIII>but the buildings look very good
18:29<Eddi|zuHause>"Little boxes, on the hillside, and they look all the same" [Weeds intro song]
18:29<Gonozal_VIII>would be nice to use some of them mixed with others
18:31<Gonozal_VIII>seem to be some nice ideas in the coding too
18:31<fjb>The land of freedom has very restrictive rules how a building or even the flowers in front of the buildings have to look like.
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18:46<Eddi|zuHause>well, in the USA, a lot of political power lies within the individual communities, so what may be allowed in one city, could be forbidden in the neighbour city
18:48<Gonozal_VIII>can't get it to work, always disabled
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18:50<Eddi|zuHause>does it say why?
18:51<Gonozal_VIII>i updated to r11689 and removed all other grfs but doesn't activate
18:52<Eddi|zuHause>you could decompile the grf, and look at the first few lines, there should be some action 7 that tell when and how to deactivate this file
18:53|-|Zr40 [~zr40@2001:960:786:0:21b:63ff:fe9e:ab24] has quit [Quit: Zr40]
18:53<Gonozal_VIII>i know, that's what i was about to do after some more ingame messing around
18:54<Eddi|zuHause>"Oh du Shrekliche" is funny ;)
18:55<Gonozal_VIII>i'm watching poltergeist
18:55<Eddi|zuHause>Shrek in itself is funny anyways ;)
18:55<Gonozal_VIII>1708 sprites, wow
18:55<Eddi|zuHause>that does not mean 1708 images
18:56<Gonozal_VIII>i know that too
18:56<Eddi|zuHause>each action i a sprite
18:56<Gonozal_VIII>but the code is even more work...
18:56<Eddi|zuHause>not if you had a high level language ;)
18:57<Gonozal_VIII> 5 * 35 0B 03 7F 02 "'newhouses on' in ttdpatch.cfg" 00
18:57<Gonozal_VIII>i guess that's the problem
18:57[~]fjb is thinking about a high level language for nfo code.
18:57<Eddi|zuHause>newhouses switch is on
18:57<Gonozal_VIII>but there's not ttdpatch.cfg?
18:58<Eddi|zuHause>but the grf doesn't know this
18:58<Eddi|zuHause>openttd tells the grf that newhouses is on
18:58<Gonozal_VIII> 3 * 22 0B 83 7F 00 "2.6 alpha 0 r1705" 00 <--
18:58<Eddi|zuHause>that might be more of a problem, somewhere in openttd is a variable that says "we simulate this version of ttdp"
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18:59<Gonozal_VIII>there's a openttd specific line too
18:59<Gonozal_VIII> 9 * 15 0B 83 7F 06 "0.6 r11451" 00
18:59<Gonozal_VIII>but that's after the ttd line
19:00<Gonozal_VIII>i should look what the lines really do instead of just the comments^^
19:01<Eddi|zuHause>that's just a name, somewhere near there should be the actual check
19:02<Gonozal_VIII>but it doesn't skip everything, it deactivates the grf... that's a different action, right?
19:03<Eddi|zuHause>"skip everything" is the same as "deactivate"
19:03<Eddi|zuHause>action B does only tell how to generate an error message
19:05<Gonozal_VIII>a better language for grfs would be really nice...
19:06<fjb>A compiler for a high level language to nfo would do. But that is not easy to make.
19:09<@Bjarni>The class on prophecy has been cancelled due to unforeseen circumstances. <-- tells something about the skills of the teacher :P
19:09<fjb>The big problem with nfo is the self modifying code.
19:10<@Bjarni>ohh... grf encoding stuff
19:10<Eddi|zuHause>problem in which way?
19:10<@Bjarni>we should simplify this mess :s
19:10<@Bjarni>preferably to a level where I can understand it
19:10<fjb>The compiler has to know in advance what code it pissibly will generate.
19:11<Eddi|zuHause>a compiler needs not necessarily exploit every single feature of the base language
19:11<Eddi|zuHause>if you need to know what you will do, you just traverse the tree another time
19:11<fjb>It has to when there is no possible work around.
19:12<fjb>It is possible to generate self modifying code, but that makes the compiler a lot more complicated.
19:12<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, for that you need to know the base language well enough to know if you have other workarounds
19:13<fjb>And you have to do the whole compiler by hand. No compiler generating tools are supporting self modifying code.
19:13<Eddi|zuHause>the question is, for which feature do you actually need self modifying code?
19:13<fjb>Arguments passed to the grf.
19:14<Eddi|zuHause>alright, but you can probably do that in an isolated part of the grf
19:14<Eddi|zuHause>and then refer to that part with all other actions
19:14<fjb>Not really.
19:15<fjb>It will possibly modify the sprite number.
19:15<fjb>And the sprite number is used in a lot of places.
19:15<Eddi|zuHause>yes, you replace the number in one action 2
19:16<Eddi|zuHause>and then refer to that action 2 from everywhere else
19:16<Eddi|zuHause>(from what limited knowledge i have of nfo)
19:16<fjb>You can modify other things too.
19:17<fjb>You have to profide the self modifying functionallityx in the compiler in any way.
19:17<Eddi|zuHause>the question is, do you need to do that in the higher language?
19:18<Eddi|zuHause>in modern high level languages, self modifying code is usually avoided by introducing function pointers or virtual functions
19:18<fjb>The language does not contain parts to modify the language, but the generated code has to modify itself.
19:19|-|XeryusTC [] has quit [Quit: May the ducttape be with you]
19:19<Eddi|zuHause>yes, dynamic resolving of virtual function calls is also some kind of self modifying code
19:20<Eddi|zuHause>the point is that this is limited to a quite small place (the virtual dispatcher table)
19:20<fjb>It still makes the compiler more compicated.
19:21<Eddi|zuHause>i really don't see that as a problem
19:21<fjb>Then write a compiler...
19:25<kyevan>Has anyone considered adding pretty graphs for money, income, debt, station rating, etc?
19:26<Gonozal_VIII>and there are some patches for that
19:30<@Belugas>fjb, self modifying code is not the most used nfo spec, by far. you are stopping yourself out of an exception
19:31<@Belugas>you'd better simply add the notion of keywords to certain type of action/command rather to burst in complex plan
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19:33<@Belugas>furthermore, may i recall that in some language, such as delphi, you can have assembly lines specified. why not do the same with some pretty twisted nfo lines?
19:33<fjb>Belugas: You are speaking of a kind of assembler? I already thought about that.
19:34<@Belugas>i'm pointing out stuff you were discussing earlier. yes, an assembler/complier. i've worked on the matter a long time ago.
19:34<@Belugas>it was nice, bus as i do not have much experience in such kind of programming, it stayed at the level of concept
19:35<fjb>A way to include nfo hex codes in the high level language would be needed anyway.
19:36<fjb>nfo is no specified processor, new opcodes may be added to nfo any time.
19:38<Eddi|zuHause>yes, there should be a way to introduce NFO code in the higher language
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19:50<@Belugas>haaa... found it :D
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19:50<@Belugas>that is what i wrote a long time ago
19:50<@Belugas>it was really at the very beginning of the concept
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19:51<fjb>Looks interesting.
19:52<@Belugas>after a very shgort discussion, the name have changed to NGL, but apart from that, it did not changed
19:53<@Belugas>oups... short discussion with Dalestan...
19:53<@Belugas>but... it does not do even one tenth in this form, to what it should do
19:54<@Belugas>just a matter of reflexion if you are serious about going there
19:54<@Belugas>and i sincerely hope laziness would not kill that good intention mood you seem to be in ;)
19:54<fjb>I'm not sure how rserious I am about writing a compiler.
19:55<@Belugas>maybe not the compiler itself, but maybe you guys can work togueter in actually defining the language itself
19:56<@Bjarni>Belugas: that looks like a good
19:56<@Bjarni>but I wonder about one thing.... why did nobody tell me about this idea? :)
19:56<fjb>Bjarni: You will write the compiler?
19:56<@Bjarni>not right now
19:57<@Belugas>thanks Bjarni. Becasue when i wrote it down, i was not a dev yet, nor was i ineresting in been one nor did i knew you
19:57<@Bjarni>ohh.. that long ago
19:58<@Belugas>i have to go, will be back in a while
20:00<qball>hi Bjarni
20:01<@Bjarni>hi qball
20:01<@Bjarni>do I know you? :)
20:01<@Bjarni>I think so....
20:01<qball>depends on the quality of your memory
20:01<@Bjarni>I have seen your nick before...
20:02<qball>maybe I should make some nasty remarks to trigger your memory.
20:02<qball>anway, great work on the latest beta
20:02<@Bjarni>clearly you didn't end up in hall of shame for saying stupid stuff... I would have noticed ;)
20:03<qball>nasty != stupid be definition. (but probly is in my case)
20:03<@Bjarni>so basically you aren't stupid.. just a pervert or ?
20:04<qball>no pervert.
20:04<qball>(I hope)
20:04<@Bjarni>the last comment tells it all
20:05<qball>but i realy enjoyed playing the beta.
20:05<@Bjarni>your next question might be something like "is it normal to have a thing for women in red socks?" or something
20:05[~]qball still waits for the promised pbs in yapf..
20:05<qball>Bjarni: I prefer women in red underwear...
20:06<qball>but a detail.
20:07<@Bjarni>most men prefer women in NO underwear xD
20:07<qball>true true
20:07<@Bjarni><qball> but i realy enjoyed playing the beta. <-- the question is not if it is enjoyable but more if it is stable
20:07<@Bjarni>but it's still nice to know this :)
20:07<qball>worked fine for me on my 64bit machine
20:07<qball>gonna give ppc a try tomorrow
20:08<qball>some drawing glitches
20:08<qball>like buttons marked unsensitive, while you could still click them (and was usefull to click them)
20:08<@Bjarni>unknown graphical problems?
20:08<qball>a graph seeemed to be know
20:09<qball>but if you buy a train that cannot be refitted, add refittable wagon, the refit button is still insensitive, but you can click it
20:09<qball>(and refit the wagons0
20:09<qball>this was with the dbset
20:09<qball> <-- this was another one
20:11<@Bjarni>that issue
20:11<@Bjarni>do we really still have that one...
20:12<qball>it was in beta2
20:13<Eddi|zuHause>"hall of shame for saying stupid stuff" <-- you mean or
20:13<Digitalfox>I just killed open svn.. " Show all log messages " lol
20:14<qball>qdb is dedicated to me.. qball database of stupid remarks
20:14<Digitalfox>Oh and by the way merry Christmas o_O
20:14<qball>merry xmas
20:15<Eddi|zuHause>i will never understand this "xmas" thing...
20:16<qball>something todo with a stable, and a new born thingy
20:16<Digitalfox>Let's see what was the first commit from Bjarni o_O
20:16<Eddi|zuHause>no, i understand what "christmas" is
20:17<Eddi|zuHause>but i have no idea how you come from "christmas" to "xmas"
20:17<Digitalfox>By the way, what does " merry " means ?? I don't think that direct translation to Portuguese exists, so could someone explain what it means?
20:18<Eddi|zuHause>in german it is "froh" or "fröhlich"
20:18<qball>a horse I think,
20:20<Eddi|zuHause>Digitalfox: maybe this helps you (german-spanish dictionary)
20:20<Eddi|zuHause>"frohe Weihnachten" translates to "feliz Navidad" in spanish
20:20<Digitalfox>Eddi|zuHause: like " happy "
20:21<Digitalfox>i see
20:21<qball>a well night
20:21<Eddi|zuHause>it is close to "happy", but not really the same
20:21<Digitalfox>never really thought about it, but now after thinking about it i was curious ;)
20:21<Digitalfox>but ok i got the point :) thanks
20:22<Eddi|zuHause>"happy" is more "glücklich" than "fröhlich"
20:23<Eddi|zuHause>i have never seen anyone wishing a "happy christmas", only a "happy new year"
20:24<qball>Bjarni: even on this
20:24<Eddi|zuHause>although you rarely say "glückliches neues Jahr" in german... usually rather "guter Rutsch [ins neue Jahr]"
20:24<qball>anyway i was off to sleep.
20:24<Eddi|zuHause>"slide well" ;)
20:25<Eddi|zuHause>(occasionally meant literally :p)
20:28<fjb>I remember a new year morning when every car was covered with some mm of ice. :-)
20:28<fjb>We had to unfreeze the cars to drive home.
20:30<CIA-1>OpenTTD: egladil * r11690 /trunk/src/settings.cpp:
20:30<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix: Since indices into the patch array is sent over the network having
20:30<CIA-1>OpenTTD: conditionally compiled entries in the table can cause desyncs. Moving them to
20:30<CIA-1>OpenTTD: the end will hide this issue, but it should really be solved in a better way.
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20:40<Digitalfox>Wow bjarni fisrt commit was in r114 in 22 August 2004, pretty old guy on open o_O
20:40|-|Ammler [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:40<Eddi|zuHause2>@openttd log 114
20:41<Eddi|zuHause2>@openttd commit 114
20:41<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause2: Commit by bjarni :: r114 trunk/ (2004-08-22 19:40:50 UTC)
20:41<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause2: updated to display merged files (blathijs)
20:41<Eddi|zuHause2>i kinda doubt that was the first commit
20:41<Eddi|zuHause2>you know, there were like 900 revisions before r1
20:42<Digitalfox>yeah i know, but it's lost, so i have to base my search on the new SVN :(
20:43<Eddi|zuHause2>iirc Bjarni made the OSX port around version 0.1.3
20:43<Digitalfox>And the first time you " Eddi|zuHause " were mentioned in SVN is r4705 ;)
20:44<Eddi|zuHause2>hm... what might that have been...
20:44<Digitalfox>i'll let you gess who was the dev..
20:44<Digitalfox>give me names
20:44<Digitalfox>and no looking
20:45<Eddi|zuHause2>might be the yapf commit where i requested some 2-way dead end stuff
20:45<Eddi|zuHause2>would mean KUDr
20:45<Digitalfox>i don't think so, but yes the dev is right
20:45<Eddi|zuHause2>@openttd commit 4705
20:45<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause2: Commit by KUDr :: r4705 branch/yapf/yapf/yapf_costrail.hpp (2006-05-03 00:28:57 UTC)
20:46<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause2: [YAPF] Fix: some diesel engines can't find path when rail combined with elrail (thanks Eddi|zuHause)
20:46<Eddi|zuHause2>ah, that one
20:46<Eddi|zuHause2>yeah, there is a later one with a similar message
20:46<Digitalfox>eh eh
20:46<Digitalfox>And you're last one was r11058
20:47<Eddi|zuHause2>@openttd commit 11058
20:47<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause2: Commit by belugas :: r11058 trunk/src/newgrf_commons.cpp (2007-09-08 00:37:37 UTC)
20:47<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause2: -Fix[FS#1216]: GetTerrainType was a bit too relax with snow line.
20:47<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause2: After double checking with ttdpatch, behaviour is now more alike (Eddi)
20:47<Digitalfox>You right?
20:47<Eddi|zuHause2>yeah, that was when snowline was one tile off
20:48<Eddi|zuHause2>but the yapf regression was earlier?
20:48<Eddi|zuHause2>there were two commits where i actually provided code
20:48<Eddi|zuHause2>but that was in miniin
20:50<Digitalfox>You have you're name in revision 4705 4710 4959 5528 6970 7132 7195 7319 7497 10491 11058 :)
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20:58<Eddi|zuHause2>@openttd commit 4710
20:58<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause2: Commit by KUDr :: r4710 /branch/yapf/yapf (3 files) (2006-05-03 14:46:00 UTC)
20:58<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause2: [YAPF] Fix: when train is deciding whether to reverse or not while leaving station, the rule 'treat first red two-way signal as dead end' doesn't apply (should make Eddi|zuHause more happy with the YAPF / two-way stations)
20:59<Eddi|zuHause2>yeah, that was the one i meant earlier
20:59<Eddi|zuHause2>that was only 5 revisions later ;)
21:00<Digitalfox>Dis new amazing set doesn't seem to load in openttd :(
21:00<Eddi|zuHause2>yeah, people reported that already here
21:01<Digitalfox>oh, i didn't read the logs, shame on me... :(
21:01<Digitalfox>thanks Eddi|zuHause2
21:02<Eddi|zuHause2>you could check wether this is a) the fault of the grf or of openttd, and if the latter b) report that on bugs
21:03<Digitalfox>yeah, but it's not in FS and i don't have patch installed to confirm it works well in patch
21:04<Digitalfox>so i presume "Good or Bad " that it's not compatible with open r11689
21:04<Eddi|zuHause2>well, Gonozal_VIII said it checks some ttdp and openttd versions, but it might do that wrong... i don't know
21:06<Digitalfox>Anyway, it's to sleep, tomorrow I'm going to paint my kitchen all by myself and it's going to be a very *LONG* day... o_O
21:06<Digitalfox>bye everybody and thanks for your time Eddi|zuHause2 :)
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21:26<kyevan>I want support for nicely rounded tracks.
21:27<Gonozal_VIII>draw the sprites for it
21:27<kyevan>You would need to redraw all the cars, too, wouldn't you? >_>
21:28<kyevan>I suppose you could just change at the right times and it might not look TOO bad.
21:28<Gonozal_VIII>that's where the voxel thing came up in the forum
21:28<Eddi|zuHause2>problem is, in ttd scale, a "voxel" does not have equal size in all directions
21:29<Eddi|zuHause2>vehicles travelling diagonal are longer than vehicles travelling on X/Y tracks
21:30<Gonozal_VIII>which is something that i would call a bug^^
21:30<kyevan>So, rewrite the whole thing in true 3d? :P
21:30<@Bjarni><Digitalfox> Wow bjarni fisrt commit was in r114 in 22 August 2004, pretty old guy on open o_O <-- that's even with the current svn server. I committed to the old one too
21:31<Eddi|zuHause2>i suppose you'd get away with 4 more angles
21:31<kyevan>Eddi|zuHause2: Are they really longer, or do they just look longer because of the angle?
21:32<kyevan>Actually... I wonder...
21:32<Gonozal_VIII>if they would just look longer because of the angle it wouldn't be a problem with voxels
21:32<Eddi|zuHause2>kyevan: a diagonal track is 0.7 length of a normal track
21:32<Eddi|zuHause2>but there fits only one wagon on it (0.5 normal track)
21:33<Gonozal_VIII>but... does it have to stay that way?
21:33<Eddi|zuHause2>so the 0.5 wagon is streched to 0.7 length
21:33<kyevan>Gonozal_VIII: Well, without art reworking, probably >_>
21:33<Eddi|zuHause2>where 0.7 is actually sqrt(2)/2
21:35<Eddi|zuHause2>yes, i know what sqrt(2)/2 is
21:35<kyevan>so, .7 :P
21:36<Eddi|zuHause2>and the sqrt(2) comes from good old pythagoras
21:36<kyevan>Gonozal still has a point. Why streach in the first place?
21:36<kyevan>I mean, OK, it'll make math a little harder, probably >_>
21:37<Eddi|zuHause2>hysterical raisins
21:37<kyevan>Oh, right
21:37<Eddi|zuHause2>two problems:
21:37<Eddi|zuHause2>a) isolate all occurences of this stretch, and resolve them simultaneously
21:37<Eddi|zuHause2>b) convince the TTD purists that this is necessary
21:38<kyevan>The origional thing was written in assembly, no one wants to do more than they have to in assembly. >_>
21:38<Eddi|zuHause2>that's not even an excuse
21:38<kyevan>"Paving the way for Cool New Features".
21:39<kyevan>Eddi|zuHause2: I'm being silly >_>
21:39<Eddi|zuHause2>you drank too much
21:39<Gonozal_VIII>or you could still use voxels and modify the way they are drawn to stretch them
21:39<kyevan>(I really, really wonder why Sawyer wrote TT/D in assembly to begin with...)
21:40<kyevan>Aye, non-square pixles have been used before, why not non-cube voxels? :P
21:41<Eddi|zuHause2>the problem is not to strech the voxels, that can be done easily
21:41<Eddi|zuHause2>the problem is the transformation steps for the intermediate angles
21:41<Gonozal_VIII>for every angle in use you define a stretching factor
21:42<Gonozal_VIII>could even be linear, so easy to calculate on the fly
21:42<Eddi|zuHause2>the other problem is, rendered sprites need to be pixel perfect (in 8bpp "compatibility mode")
21:44<Gonozal_VIII>what does that mean? pixel perfect?
21:44<Eddi|zuHause2>meaning you can't calculate intermediate pixels in 8bpp
21:44<Eddi|zuHause2>in 32bpp you can do AA stuff to make downscaled versions look good
21:45<Eddi|zuHause2>in 8bpp you can't automatically downscale an image
21:45<Eddi|zuHause2>the downscaled images need human touchups
21:46<Gonozal_VIII>ok, that's a good point, did that a lot myself
21:47<Gonozal_VIII>use 32bpp voxels :-)
21:47<kyevan>ctrl-clicking on 'look' needs to be more obvious
21:48<Eddi|zuHause2>err... what?
21:49<Gonozal_VIII>what's look?
21:51<Gonozal_VIII>i have no idea what you mean with ctrl-clicking on "look"
21:51<Gonozal_VIII>i guess it's not obvious enough
21:51<Eddi|zuHause2>you are not alone
21:53<kyevan>Gonozal_VIII: the eye button on a train's pannel
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21:53<kyevan>that takes you to it
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21:53<kyevan>ctrl-click follows it with the camera.
21:53<Eddi|zuHause2>consider that an easteregg ;)
21:54<Eddi|zuHause2>and i'm pretty sure you get told that with a right click
21:55<Eddi|zuHause2>that is probably worth a bug report then
21:55<Gonozal_VIII>"Centre main view on train's location"
21:55<Gonozal_VIII>center :-)
21:55<Eddi|zuHause2>not in BE
21:56<Gonozal_VIII>even for that use?
21:56<Eddi|zuHause2>BE<>AE is mainly about re<>er inversion
21:56<Gonozal_VIII>i know it's tourist centre but centre view?
21:56<Eddi|zuHause2>then some left out letters, like ou<>o
21:57<Gonozal_VIII>that's strange
21:57<Eddi|zuHause2>well, i'm not a native speaker, so i can't tell
21:57<Eddi|zuHause2>but the rules from my observations would say yes, even if it looks strange
21:57<Eddi|zuHause2>the -re comes mainly from french
21:58<Eddi|zuHause2>the americans often lost the french roots, especially with major german influence
22:00<Gonozal_VIII>well.. i guess the british would have noticed if it was wrong
22:00<Eddi|zuHause2>helper text is not exactly something that gets viewed very often ;)
22:01<kyevan>It's all in data files,right?
22:02<kyevan>Surely some people read those for gramar and such?
22:04<kyevan>Are there separate AU, UK, and US english files?
22:04<Gonozal_VIII>only us
22:04<Gonozal_VIII>no au
22:04<kyevan>(Canada gets left out, sorry. Depending on where you are, it's usually pretty much identicle to either UK or US.)
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22:05<Gonozal_VIII>if somebody wants it he can make it... there is even an esperanto file
22:05<kyevan>There is?
22:05<Gonozal_VIII>3 different norwegian as it seems...
22:05<kyevan>Is there one for klingon yet?
22:06<kyevan>Hmm... that's an idea for april fools...
22:06<Gonozal_VIII>what's piglatin?
22:06<kyevan>A special april fools release with the language files removed except for one special one - Pig Latin :P
22:06<kyevan>There already is a pig latin file o.O
22:07<Gonozal_VIII>yes there is
22:07<kyevan>Ig-pay atin-lay is-yay a-yay eird-way ittle-lay ame-gay.
22:07<kyevan>Pig latin is a weird little game
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22:07<kyevan>It's just a slightly cyphered english
22:08<kyevan>Google's available in it, why not openttd?
22:08<Gonozal_VIII>i already googled for it...
22:08<kyevan>(There's also a klingon translation of google.)
22:09<kyevan> <-- Oogle-gay
22:09<kyevan>But they don't type the -es
22:10<kyevan>I normaly don't, except when I'm teaching someone.
22:10<Eddi|zuHause2>"Angelsächsische Kinder schnappen irgendwann Pig Latin auf. Das ist eine Spielsprache, bei der englische Worte so umgestellt werden, dass sie fremdartig klingen. Gegen Erwachsene hilft das meist wenig, weil sie - auch wenn es für Kinder unwahrscheinlich klingt - auch einmal in dem Alter waren. Aber gegen Deutsche funktioniert es wunderbar, denn die haben keine Ahnung, was abgeht."
22:10<kyevan>Oh god no.
22:10<kyevan>Someone did an AAAAAAA translation?
22:10<Gonozal_VIII>no^^ that's missing
22:11<kyevan>Google in Klingon, if you didn't beleave me.
22:11<Eddi|zuHause2>all people that attempted klingon translation before came across the same problem, there is no trains and railway vocabulary
22:11<kyevan>there's also l33t
22:11<kyevan>Eddi|zuHause2: PEople have tried it?
22:11<kyevan>Why am I not actually surprised?
22:12<Eddi|zuHause2>let's say you are not the first one that got this idea :p
22:12<kyevan>Oh, there's also Bork Bork Bork,
22:13<kyevan>and Ewmer Fudd!
22:14<Gonozal_VIII> :-)
22:15<Gonozal_VIII>would be hard to play if every word is AAAAAA ^^
22:16<kyevan>Gonozal_VIII: I know AAAAAAAA
22:16<kyevan>Gonozal_VIII: Not really, not if you know the game really well./
22:16<Gonozal_VIII>try to get a subsidy if every townname is AAAAAA ;-)
22:16<kyevan>There are enough picture cues that you could build and manage trains and such just fine
22:16<kyevan>Well, there are some areas that are tougher :P
22:16<Gonozal_VIII>ok, you can click on the message to center...
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22:28<Gonozal_VIII>wow i just found the fastest way to read the forum
22:28<Gonozal_VIII>lots of undread posts?
22:28<Gonozal_VIII>Mark forums read
22:28<Gonozal_VIII>and you read everything :D
22:30<Eddi|zuHause2>Gonozal_VIII: you can cycle the appropriate towns when you click on the subsidy
22:30<+glx>I often do that in suggestions
22:30<Gonozal_VIII>i know eddi
22:31<Eddi|zuHause2>especially for experienced players, AAAAA should not be a big problem
22:31<Eddi|zuHause2>you get more problems with the town name generator
22:32<Eddi|zuHause2>i think that one checks the actual result string for duplicates
22:32<Gonozal_VIII>that's bad then
22:32<Eddi|zuHause2>instead, you can make an AAAAA.grf that replaces the font sprites
22:33<Gonozal_VIII>would that result in an endless loop or would it skip the town generation and you end up with a single town?
22:33<Gonozal_VIII>aaah good idea^^
22:33<Eddi|zuHause2>probably not endless, it will give up after a while
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22:36[~]kyevan laughs
22:36<kyevan>the OpenTTD server is taking less cpu than bash, and less memory than irssi :P
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22:37|-|Gonozal_VIII changed nick to Guest1195
22:37|-|Guest1195 changed nick to Guest1196
22:37|-|bla changed nick to Gonozal_VIII
22:40<Gonozal_VIII>wtf was that now
22:41|-|helb [~helb@] has joined #openttd
22:41<Gonozal_VIII>[04:36:20] *** Nickname already in use. Please choose another (/nick {name}).
22:42<Gonozal_VIII>then i did /nick bla
22:42<Gonozal_VIII>then it rejoined...
22:42|-|Guest1196 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:42<Gonozal_VIII>[04:37:36] *** You are now known as Guest1195.
22:42<Gonozal_VIII>[04:37:36] *** You are now known as Guest1196.
22:42<Gonozal_VIII>[04:37:36] *** bla is now known as Gonozal_VIII.
22:42<Gonozal_VIII>then that...
22:42<+glx>you had a ghost
22:42<Gonozal_VIII>yes me
22:43<Gonozal_VIII>i always have that when i get 8h disconnection
22:43<Eddi|zuHause2>honestly, 8h is insane
22:43<Eddi|zuHause2>and i go to bed
22:43<Gonozal_VIII>yes it is...
22:43<Gonozal_VIII>hmm that's an idea
22:44<+glx>you can't download anything to big in 8h
22:44<Gonozal_VIII>not via ftp
22:44<Gonozal_VIII>torrent doesn't have much problems with that
22:46<+glx>but still
22:47<Gonozal_VIII>yes, that's probably why they do that
22:50<Gonozal_VIII>and only huge stuff takes more than 8h to download on a 3mbit line
22:52<Gonozal_VIII>it's a bigger problem in multiplayer games...
22:52<Gonozal_VIII>not in openttd, i can just rejoin there
22:52<Gonozal_VIII>but there are other games where it's more complicated
22:53<Gonozal_VIII>but i didn't play any other games for a long time now anyways...
23:03|-|TinoM| [] has joined #openttd
23:07|-|TinoM [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:18<kyevan>why are there two snow line options, only one of which works?
23:38<kyevan>In the config file
23:39<kyevan>in the generic options towards the top, there's snow_line (does nothing) and further down, in the patches, there's snow_line_height, which does.
23:40<Gonozal_VIII>does it get generated in a new config or is it from an old one?
23:41<kyevan>in a new one
---Logclosed Tue Dec 25 00:00:46 2007