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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-01-01

---Logopened Tue Jan 01 00:00:14 2008
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02:43<Gonozal_VIII>ms paint sucks, can't even select a single line of pixels there
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04:25<Gonozal_VIII>i thought you were going to sleep
04:26<Gonozal_VIII>oh... that was 9h ago... kk
04:27<pavel1269>lol :D
04:48|-|a1270 [] has quit [Quit: The ending changes tone & is actually quite sad - but it involves a scene of necrophilia, so that's just another plus in my book.....]
04:54<Gonozal_VIII>my eyes hurt
04:54<Gonozal_VIII>should sleep..
04:55<pavel1269>Gonozal_VIII: good night then
04:57<Gonozal_VIII>but... they'll wake me up at 12... they'll want to feed me
04:58<Gonozal_VIII>with food...
04:58<pavel1269>so you have ione hour ,)
04:59<Gonozal_VIII>i'll just close my laptop then... and the pictures will be gone... then i sleep
05:00<Gonozal_VIII>until they feed me
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05:10<guru3>Happy new year!
05:11<Wolf01>to you too
05:11<pavel1269>guru3: same to you
05:12<guru3>Cheers for that, and to all! Some new year cheer as well!
05:14<Eddi|zuHause2>new cheer? gret :)
05:17<peter__>Wolf01, lol
05:18<Wolf01> this is nice too
05:21<peter__>my browser downloaded it instead of displaying it
05:22<pavel1269>same here ...
05:23<Wolf01>here too
05:26<peter__>bah we need bendy bridges and tunnels
05:26<pavel1269>diagonal? :P
05:26<Wolf01>L shaped
05:27<pavel1269>still dont know ^^
05:27<Wolf01>( shaped
05:27<peter__>like locomotion but better cos it's not locomotion
05:28<Wolf01>F shaped.. uh, there's something wrong
05:28<peter__>possible :p
05:28<peter__>when do oil rigs appear?
05:28<Wolf01>what about no tunnels at all, but the ability to build the rail underground directly?
05:28<Wolf01>when is too late to build a route from oil rig to refinery
05:34<peter__>basically yeah
05:35<Wolf01>uhmm, i don't like some things about ECS industries, and maybe the newindustries in general, but the worse thing is that when i need to rebuild a disappeared industry i can't because it is always too near to another industry...
05:37<Wolf01>i had to fund 3 oil rigs in the middle of a gulf, and connect them with a pipe-styled rail station and a dock... luckily i have too much money so this big and expensive work was not noticed by my finances :P
05:38<pavel1269>sun is shinying on me :(
05:38<Wolf01>death is breathing on my neck
05:39<Wolf01>oh wait, is only the opened window
05:39<peter__>well nothing forces you to use new industries ;p
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05:40<Wolf01>they are very good, but i'm too used to the standard behaviour of the industries
05:40<Wolf01>like multiple near industries or multiple same industries per town
05:45<Wolf01> <- :OOO (is a train, don't kick me)
05:49<valhallasw>Took a total of 6 units to get unstuck. <-- wtf.
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06:00<Wolf01> nice, the 2 greens are the same colour
06:01<peter__>doesn't work
06:01<peter__>it's too obvious
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07:25<pavel1269>question :) OpenTTD is "Open Transport Tycoon Deluxe" or "Open Transport Tycoon" ? :)
07:27<ln->it is OpenTTD.
07:27<pavel1269>so TTD means nothing? ^^
07:27<pavel1269>in OpenTTD
07:28<pavel1269>so if anyone is talking about Open Transport Tycoon Deluxe, so he's talking about other game? ^^
07:29<ln->though you never know what people are really talking about.
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07:52<LordAzamath>Happy New Year everyone
07:52<pavel1269>to you tu
07:52<pavel1269>*to you too
07:52<ln->year 19108
07:53<pavel1269>? :)
07:53<pavel1269>from china? :P
07:53<LordAzamath>1900 + 108
07:53<ln->rather, "19" + years since 1900
07:53<Wolf01>happy new 7D8 :D
07:54<Wolf01>uhm, in octal seem more futuristic: 3730
07:54<LordAzamath>put it into little endian :D D8 07
07:55<LordAzamath>111 1101 1000
07:55<pavel1269>0111 :)
07:56<LordAzamath>111 1101 0111 ended yesterday
07:56<LordAzamath>now the ending is 1000
07:57<Wolf01>we should wait 'til 2047, the 2048 is 1000 0000 0000, like the r10000 of OTTD :D
07:59<LordAzamath>or OpenTTD which is released 2048 :D
07:59<pavel1269>let's see :)
08:00<LordAzamath>anyway for anyone interested..MORE alien blood
08:01<Wolf01>nice depots, but they need more company colour :P
08:02<Wolf01>can you make something like a writing or a logo on the sides of the depot?
08:03<hylje>that depot stuff makes me want to make a large depot feature
08:03<Wolf01>nobody stops you :D
08:03<hylje>but my mad skillz
08:04<LordAzamath>it's full tile, so you can attach them
08:04<hylje>i could of course start with a comprehensive design
08:04<LordAzamath>I have no idea where to put more cc
08:04<LordAzamath>the original depot didn't have it at all
08:04<Wolf01>LordAzamath, a company logo in the walls?
08:05<LordAzamath>yes, but *all* companies would have same logo :D
08:05<Wolf01>doesn't bother for me :P
08:05<pavel1269>but ther colors
08:05<roboboy>can depots have 2cc?
08:05<LordAzamath>and it has to blend in somehow...
08:06<LordAzamath>I guess they can...
08:06<roboboy>maybe a 2band stripe at half hight
08:06<roboboy>one in 1cc and the other in 2cc
08:10<LordAzamath>good night
08:11<LordAzamath>hmm to have 2 cc I need to hassle with nfo code...
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08:48<pavel1269>can anyone help me with minimalizing something? :)
08:51<pavel1269>i can give you table if you want :/
08:52<pavel1269>0 and 0 and 0 = 0
08:52<pavel1269>0 and 0 and 1 = 0
08:52<pavel1269>0 and 1 and 0 = 1
08:52<pavel1269>0 and 1 and 1 = 1
08:52<pavel1269>1 and 0 and 0 = 0
08:52<pavel1269>1 and 0 and 1 = 0
08:52<pavel1269>1 and 1 and 0 = 1
08:52<pavel1269>1 and 1 and 1 = 0
08:52<pavel1269>just with use of ^,&,| :)
08:57<Progman>looks like (~a&b)|(a&b&~c)
08:57<pavel1269>~ :/
08:57<pavel1269>gonna try what it will do i am not sure
09:00<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r11732 /trunk/src/ (rail.h railtypes.h train_cmd.cpp): -Fix (r4150): elrail merge gave elrail, monorail & maglev unintended speed bonuses for curves, as the bonus was based on the railtype index. The bonus is now specified by a property of the railtype.
09:01<pavel1269>byte a = 00000010
09:02<pavel1269>~a = 000000"-1-1"
09:02<pavel1269>because ~a = -3
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09:02<Progman>a bit can be either 0 or 1, but not -1 ;)
09:02<pavel1269>i know, but how can i get -3?
09:03<pavel1269>thats not -3 :D
09:03<Progman>it is
09:04<Progman>depend on the size and if signed or unsigned
09:04<pavel1269>and "byte" in ottd is signed? :)
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09:05<Progman>maybe the variable/type isn't but the output is
09:05<peter__>000000-1-1... lol
09:07<Progman>how did you echo the value? and anyway, as you do bitmasking you dont care about the representation of the value
09:07<pavel1269>just %d :)
09:07<peter__>%d is signed, %u is unsigned
09:08<Progman>maybe you want %x or %X
09:09<pavel1269>whats output of %xM
09:10<pavel1269>bytes? :)
09:11<pavel1269>okay, (~a&b)|(a&b&~c) works
09:11<pavel1269>thank you
09:12<Progman>%x is hexadecimal
09:12<Progman>%X with uppercase hexadecimal
09:13<Progman>printf dont have iirc a bit-style output
09:15<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r11733 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix: Max speed for entering stations overrode the max speed of curves
09:15<LordAzamath>not to interrupt your very notinteresting discussion
09:20<peter__>looks dangerous
09:21<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r11734 /trunk/src/ (15 files in 4 dirs):
09:21<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Change: Allow ToggleFullScreen to return the result of the operation' attempt. Previously, only visual clues were available.
09:21<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix[FS#1519]: When you can not use this resolution at full screen, now you'll know that it failed.
09:21<CIA-1>OpenTTD: As for the reason it did not work, each computer/OS has its reason.
09:23<LordAzamath>Feels like pioneer suspension :D
09:23<LordAzamath>after you have driven over it
09:26<LordAzamath>hmm...I'm bored, someone give me some what should I draw next
09:26<pavel1269>draw ... you can redraw stations to fit CSrails :)
09:27<pavel1269>i mean NewGRF stations
09:27<peter__>why do they need to be redrawn?
09:27<LordAzamath>I mean for replacement project :D
09:28<peter__>ah ha
09:28<pavel1269>peter__: because there are old ones
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09:31<TrueBrain>HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!
09:31<TrueBrain>well, boring people :p
09:31|-|TrueBrain [truelight@] has left #openttd [So long and tnx for all the fish]
09:31<LordAzamath>Happy New Year Truelight!
09:31<Wolf01>i was writing :(
09:31<LordAzamath>boring indeed!
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09:33<LordAzamath>What's going on? :D
09:34<peter__>it's your turn next
09:34<LordAzamath>like this?
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09:35<LordAzamath>There should have been connection lost for me
09:35<LordAzamath>for a little moment
09:35<LordAzamath>how can I access IRC logs?
09:35<pavel1269>you? can't :P
09:35<pavel1269>ask SpComb :o)
09:35<SpComb>Logs: (old: )
09:36<SpComb>note how the new logs have been offline for a couple weeks, but nobody's noticed because the implicit behaviour is to use the old ones anyways
09:37<pavel1269>hehe true :)
09:37<LordAzamath>the new logs are indeed offline...
09:37<LordAzamath>and I noticed it right now
09:37<pavel1269>same here
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09:37<LordAzamath>but you didn't give me any new ideas....what to draw :(
09:41<LordAzamath>hmm, I always thought that there is larger community in #tycoon, but I now joined it, there are less people..
09:43<peter__>it's probably in a netsplit again
09:46<SpComb>no, it doesn't generally go over 50 users
09:46<SpComb>so yes, there are fewer idlers there than here
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09:52<ln->Ingen skibe fra Gammakvadranten inden for de anmodede tidsparametre.
09:53<pavel1269>hmm ...
09:53<@Bjarni>ln- is having fun quoting subtitles
09:53<@Bjarni>... again
09:54<ln->cheap, inexpensive humour
09:54<LordAzamath>helllo Bjarin
09:54<@Bjarni>ln-: well... it depends... if you have to get the subtitles first
09:55<@Bjarni>besides the Danish subtitles on Star Trek are just plain weird
09:55<ln->because Klingon doesn't need subtitling into danish?
09:56<@Bjarni>that's not really what I meant
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10:06<Sacro>HAPPY NEW YEAR!
10:07<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r11735 /trunk/src/ (openttd.cpp vehicle.cpp vehicle_base.h): -Fix [FS#1574]: Don't reset loading indicator IDs when only reloading NewGRFs.
10:07<pavel1269>Sacro: to you too
10:08<peter__>happy new 15:08 UTC
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10:12<Sacro>there is a hostage situation at the pub round the corner, but we can find nothing on the radi
10:13<@Bjarni>happy new year?
10:14<@Bjarni>turns out that I'm still in 2007
10:14<@Bjarni>so I guess it's the 32nd of December here
10:15<@Bjarni>you see... new year is when the the clock on the town hall in Copenhagen sounds the bell 12 times
10:15<@Bjarni>so TV broadcasted the clock live
10:15<@Bjarni>and then it happened
10:15<@Bjarni>the clock broke
10:15<@Bjarni>and didn't ring the bell
10:16<@Bjarni>and they still don't know why
10:16<@Bjarni>now that's bad timing
10:16|-|Greysc[a]le changed nick to Greyscale
10:16|-|Greyscale changed nick to Greysc[a]le
10:16<@Bjarni>so... if you want anything done in 2007 you can still make it if you go to Denmark xD
10:16|-|Greysc[a]le changed nick to Greyscale
10:18<@Bjarni>I bet the news tonight will have a long talk about this clock
10:19<Draakon>so in Denmark, its 32 Dec?
10:19<Draakon>instead of 1 January?
10:19<@Bjarni>I guess so
10:20<@Bjarni>however the Calendar says the 1st of January... but they didn't know this would happen when they printed it
10:20<Draakon>and if it wont be repaired today and it is broken tomorrow its 33 Dec? :P
10:20[~]Bjarni is looking forward to the 40th of December
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10:21<@Bjarni>hey... I'm have nothing scheduled until January
10:21<@Bjarni>which means.... an extra vacation :D
10:22<HerzogDeXtEr>happy new year :>
10:22<@Bjarni>now I just have to convince everybody else that this is the way it is
10:22<@Bjarni>HerzogDeXtEr: greatest comment that anybody could show up with :D
10:22<pavel1269>HerzogDeXtEr: to you too ;)
10:22<LordAzamath>we support your efforts :D
10:23<SpComb>Logs: (old: )
10:23<@Bjarni>HerzogDeXtEr: here you see why xD
10:24<HerzogDeXtEr>yippie :D
10:24<HerzogDeXtEr>now i want to see me @ :>
10:24<@Bjarni>I think this is too long for
10:24<@Bjarni>besides they reject all the funny stuff
10:25<HerzogDeXtEr>:> yeah thats true
10:26<Zahl>they only accept those totally made up stupid quotes
10:26<Zahl>so lets invent something
10:26<HerzogDeXtEr>but sometimes it's funny :>, sometimes
10:27<SpComb>let's skip the meta-humour
10:33<peter__>humour? where?
10:37<LordAzamath>eeeeevryooone....I asked Red*Star for permission to use for the replacement prject..
10:39<pavel1269>looks good
10:39<LordAzamath>it IS good
10:42<Sacro>peter__: syndaemon
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10:43<Sacro>peter__: for altering touchpad settings when you have a mouse
10:43|-|XeryusTC2 changed nick to XeryusTC
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11:03<ln->did pv2b succeed with his patching effort?
11:11<@Bjarni>I hope so
11:11<@Bjarni>but he has yet to tell me
11:16<LordAzamath>Bjarni, because nobody answered me before, you must :D. I wan't to draw something but I can't make my mind up, what shall I draw (for )..So because nobody gave me nice ideas you should. :D
11:17<@Bjarni>that's a lot to read
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11:18<@Bjarni>I wouldn't mind getting a replacement set if that is what you are asking
11:18<LordAzamath>ermm...use this
11:18<LordAzamath>it's almost everything we have
11:18<LordAzamath>but I need smb else to decide what shall I draw next :D
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11:19<peter__>draw some gui elements
11:20<LordAzamath>I tried that this morning and found out I can't draw Gui
11:20<LordAzamath>atleast so that it would differ from the original ones
11:20<LordAzamath>that's the problem with small sprites
11:21<LordAzamath>They all are so similar,
11:23|-|lolman [~lolman@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
11:23<@Bjarni>then how about trees and forests?
11:24<pavel1269>LordAzamath: brickland :)
11:24<LordAzamath>I'm still thinking what happened to SAC, maybe we could use her trees....
11:25<LordAzamath>but it seems she left
11:25<LordAzamath>SAC's stolen trees
11:25<pavel1269>they are best!
11:25<pavel1269>i have them in newrgf-static all time
11:25<@Bjarni>what are you talking about?
11:25<LordAzamath>one grf
11:26<LordAzamath>the name is SAC's Stolen Trees
11:26<LordAzamath>I have no idea why this naming
11:26<peter__>they're too big
11:26<@Bjarni>maybe we should ask the owner
11:26<peter__>and the angle is wrong
11:26<@Bjarni>whoever that might be
11:27<Wolf01>because somebody coded and released them before she does, if i remember
11:27<LordAzamath>that would be Aegir
11:28<peter__>by the way, no offence, by why so much effort into 8bpp when 32bpp is available to use?
11:28<LordAzamath>"Graohics by SAC. Coded by Aegir, who has no shame"
11:28<pavel1269>peter__: sameone can't use 32bpp property
11:28<LordAzamath>in newgrf description
11:28<pavel1269>like i can play only without animations at hard otherwise it kills my pc
11:29<LordAzamath>because 32bpp still needs 8bpp sprites
11:29<pavel1269>and no animations means = ugly water, unplayable CSsignals :(
11:29<LordAzamath>and w/o replacement OpenTTD can't be fully freely distributed
11:30<LordAzamath>w/o breaching copyright laws for original grpahics
11:30<pavel1269>btw, who care about tree angle since tree is circuit? :P
11:30<egladil>no it doesn't, 32bpp can use both 32bpp or 8bpp sprites
11:30<Wolf01>not all trees are circles
11:30<pavel1269>but all trees look good
11:30<LordAzamath>yes but 32bpp needs 8bpp sprites to exist
11:31<Wolf01>just make a blank grf and replace all the graphics with 32bpp
11:31<LordAzamath>you may read more here
11:32<LordAzamath>there are lot's of good reasons why not to do it, but I don't know them all...ask a dev
11:32<LordAzamath>pavel, I guess the "angle" was maybe lightning angle
11:33<pavel1269>okay then
11:33<LordAzamath>I just looked, the lightning angle is good
11:34[~]LordAzamath keeps staring at stolen trees
11:35<LordAzamath>they're just too good :(
11:35<egladil>LordAzamath: will do :)
11:37<peter__>no, view angle
11:37<peter__>you see too much trunk
11:38<peter__>they're drawn as if you're a person at ground level
11:38<peter__>but in the game your viewpoint is in the sky
11:38<pavel1269>ahh this angle :)
11:38<pavel1269>this means they are totaly wrong :X
11:39<peter__>and as Wolf01 says there is not enough variety
11:39<peter__>no tall but thin trees, iirc
11:39<LordAzamath>does anybody know good train replacement set that only replaces graphics not stats? Something like generic set?
11:40<peter__>your graphics replacement set i assume
11:40<peter__>i dunno, maybe it can use newgrf
11:41<Eddi|zuHause2>LordAzamath: get a some graphics, and use
11:43<CIA-1>OpenTTD: miham * r11736 /trunk/src/lang/ (5 files):
11:43<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2008-01-01 17:42:54
11:43<CIA-1>OpenTTD: catalan - 1 fixed by arnaullv (1)
11:43<CIA-1>OpenTTD: german - 4 fixed by chu (4)
11:43<CIA-1>OpenTTD: hungarian - 23 fixed by miham (23)
11:43<CIA-1>OpenTTD: romanian - 17 fixed, 2 changed by kneekoo (19)
11:43<CIA-1>OpenTTD: slovenian - 1 fixed by Necrolyte (1)
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11:46<LordAzamath>guess what? I got a reply from Red*Star and it stated that I may use his graphics!!!!
11:47|-|tokai [] has joined #openttd
11:47|-|mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ
11:47<LordAzamath>So Eddi|zuHause2 I guess I can use your thing now :)
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11:49<SpComb>Logs: (old: )
11:50<LordAzamath>hmm, Eddi, seams that firefox crashed when I tried to save link as :)
11:50<Eddi|zuHause2>*mental note* close openttd before compiling the new version ;)
11:51<Eddi|zuHause2>cp: reguläre Datei „/home/johannes/spiele/OpenTTD/bin/openttd“ kann nicht angelegt werden: Das Programm kann nicht ausgeführt oder verändert werden (busy)
11:51<pavel1269>translate? :P
11:51<LordAzamath>that just said *alot* to me
11:51|-|Prof_Frink [] has joined #openttd
11:51<+glx>pavel1269: file in use
11:52<pavel1269>thank you :)
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11:57<LordAzamath>Eddi|zuHause2 sorry but I can't understand that higher level language so well...i think for simple 0a sprite replacement plain nfo is better
11:58<LordAzamath>actually I can't understand it at all
11:58<Eddi|zuHause2>LordAzamath: use the example2.ndl as base
11:58<Eddi|zuHause2>there is a line "Sprites = (...)"
11:58<LordAzamath>at first i have to add line breaks before # marks so I can read it
11:59<LordAzamath>it's all one big line now
11:59<Eddi|zuHause2>LordAzamath: use an editor that understands linux-line breaks
12:00<LordAzamath>I might just do that...two possible means -> reboot to mandriva or use ConText
12:01<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r11737 /trunk/src/autoreplace_gui.cpp: -Fix: Reinstate NewGRF-specified engine list order in autoreplace window.
12:02<Wolf01>:O seem that somebody returned
12:02<@Bjarni>I noticed
12:03<@Bjarni>but I thought about something else regarding this commit
12:03<@Bjarni>all my local changes to autoreplace >_<
12:03<Eddi|zuHause2>haha ;)
12:03<peter__>Bjarni, it's one line (plus a little extra out of the way)
12:03<@Bjarni>I think I can manage this
12:04<peter__>i don't remember it becoming broken
12:04<peter__>but i guess it was since the last rewrite :o
12:04<peter__>anyway, what local changes do you have? heh
12:05<@Bjarni>I'm trying a redesign that should improve newGRF compatibility with less messy code
12:05|-|peterbrett [] has joined #openttd
12:05<@Bjarni>and it should work even if newGRF makes up something I didn't think of
12:05<@Bjarni>well... hopefully ;)
12:06<peter__>well the "too long" trains problem was fixed
12:06<peter__>i guess there are other problems though
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12:07<peter__>hmm, ukrs double metrocammel to sprinter or something?
12:08<@Bjarni>the issue is that whenever he notice an issue we add a fix for it. By design a whole lot of the newGRF features needed a fix (and some aren't fixed yet) and the code risks getting messy
12:08|-|Osai [] has joined #openttd
12:08<peter__>i thought it was pretty good now
12:08<@Bjarni>not to mention time consuming
12:08<peter__>the "too long" trains problem was not even autoreplace related
12:08<@Bjarni>I know
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12:09<LordAzamath>Bjarni> the issue is that whenever he notice an issue we add a fix for it. By design a whole lot of the newGRF features needed a fix (and some aren't fixed yet) and the code risks getting messy
12:10<LordAzamath>that's like osome of my biggest junctions
12:10<LordAzamath>I repair them
12:10<LordAzamath>and think that they are now huge
12:10<LordAzamath>when in the same time time I could do it with very little effort
12:10<LordAzamath>bu I just won't rebuild the whole thing
12:11<peter__>autoreplace has been rebuilt about 5 times now ;)
12:11<@Bjarni>actually my plan is to go though the train recursively instead of in a loop
12:12<peter__>well anyway, i doubt that minor gui change will affect your changes at all
12:12<@Bjarni>this should fix the newgrf overwrite for what vehicles that can be connected
12:12<peter__>i guess you need to detach all old engines, then attach new engines
12:13<peter__>this needs transactional c++ ;)
12:13<peter__>of course, in some cases it is correct that things can't be replaced
12:13<@Bjarni>it goes though the train and replaces the engines in a recursive function. Once it reaches the end it will join the train from the rear
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12:14<@Bjarni>so changing a DMU to another one will not fail because the new and old can't be connected
12:15<peter__>even so, it still works marvellously well
12:15<peter__>remember when you ended up with single engines running around instead...
12:15<@Bjarni>but it's an experiment. I'm wondering about how fast it will work. If it turns out to be a slowdown then I will likely try to figure out some other way to solve this
12:18<@Bjarni>my biggest problem is how to revert the train to the original state and costs to 0 when it fails
12:18<@Bjarni>but I might have a solution :)
12:18<peter__>yeah, that's the messiest bit
12:18<Eddi|zuHause2>you need a vehicle sandbox
12:18<@Bjarni>I guess you could call my idea for a sandbox
12:19<@Bjarni>basically it allocates memory for the whole chain and copies each vehicle into it. If something fails then it just sells everything and creates the train again from the backup
12:19<@Bjarni>well.. that's the idea
12:20<@Bjarni>it's not done yet so I can't test the idea yet
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12:22<@Bjarni>well... I hope that if the backup system works then the code should be less messy because it just goes ahead and presumes that it will work until proven otherwise
12:22<@Bjarni>no check
12:22<Eddi|zuHause2>sandboxes of certain selections of the game state would be a good idea for a lot of things
12:23<peter__>copy & paste patch? heh
12:23|-|wiese [] has joined #openttd
12:23<@Bjarni>so you are saying that we should start by making a sandbox feature?
12:23<peter__>sounds like way too much work for one feature ;(
12:24<@Bjarni>snapshot of economics and the ability to restore this... could be an interesting feature
12:25<Eddi|zuHause2>it could be used for all the command stuff, just do the ~DC_EXEC part in the sandbox
12:25<@Bjarni>I have wondered about the commands. They all estimate if it's possible and then they assert if they estimate incorrectly. It would be more interesting to just do the commands with the ability to revert the changes
12:26<@Bjarni>murray: you aren't allowed to cover the license plate like that. You better take it off again
12:27<Eddi|zuHause2>a lada... haven't seen that one in ages...
12:28<@Bjarni>I thought you were living in Lada country
12:28<hylje>we can't stop here
12:28<hylje>it's lada country
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12:30<Eddi|zuHause2>lada is a russian car, i believe
12:30<Eddi|zuHause2>they were qute common here until ~15 years ago
12:30<@Bjarni>hence why you once lived in Lada country
12:30<@Bjarni>DDR used Russian stuff
12:33<@Bjarni> <peter__> sounds like way too much work for one feature ;( <-- agreed. Either I make this more general or I will not finish it
12:33<Eddi|zuHause2>well, most common were the german produced car ("Trabbi" (Trabant), and "Wartburg")
12:33<@Bjarni>general as in "other functions can call on this functionality too"
12:34<peter__>trabants rock
12:35<valhallasw>you mean they are as noisy as a rock concert? :P
12:35<@Bjarni>may I recommend better suspension :p
12:35[~]ln- has visited the Wartburg castle thing at Eisenach
12:35<@Bjarni>ln-: is there anywhere you haven't been?
12:36<Eddi|zuHause2>the "Wartburg" car was manufactured in Eisenach (hence the name ;))
12:36<ln->the US
12:36<@Bjarni>ln-: is there anywhere you haven't been that's worth visiting?
12:36<ln->the Moon
12:36<Eddi|zuHause2>i have been in the US
12:36<Eddi|zuHause2>in the year 2000
12:36[~]Bjarni feels sorry for Eddi|zuHause2
12:37<@Bjarni>was it painful?
12:37<ln->Luther used to live at the Wartburg castle thing, as far as i understand
12:37<Eddi|zuHause2>we were guest of an orchestra that played "german" music ;)
12:37|-|Wolf01 changed nick to Wolf01|AWAY
12:38<ln->Wolf01|AWAY: no away nicks
12:38<@Bjarni>he just made a statement
12:38<Eddi|zuHause2>ln-: yes, under a pseudonym
12:38<@Bjarni>about German music :P
12:39<Eddi|zuHause2>ln-: in that time, he made his translation of the bible
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12:42<ln->webtranslator 0.05
12:42<@Bjarni>is that better or worse than babelfish?
12:42|-|bumblebee [] has joined #openttd
12:43<@Bjarni>is it free?
12:43<ln->did he have to come up some new names for animals, for example?
12:44<Eddi|zuHause2>no, but he is said to be the Root of the Habit to capitalise Nouns in German
12:46|-|bumblebee [] has quit []
12:46<ln->the finnish translator, Acrigola, called the lion a "noble deer", because obviously finns at the time did not have much contact with lions.
12:48<@Bjarni>reminds me of the cow with a pantograph on it's head
12:48<Eddi|zuHause2>it is said the intention was to give each object created by god a capital letter
12:48<Eddi|zuHause2>except the lord himself, he got two
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12:49<ln->like LOrd?
12:49|-|bumblebee [] has joined #openttd
12:49[~]Bjarni sets mode +b *!*@*.no
12:49<Eddi|zuHause2>yes "HErr"
12:49<@Bjarni>no quitting and joining all the time
12:50<Eddi|zuHause2>that apparently did not hold very long
12:50<Eddi|zuHause2>it was then either capitalised entirely, or just with one letter
12:51|-|pv2008b changed nick to pv2b
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13:00<ln->pv2b: did you succeed?
13:00<pv2b>ln-: in what?
13:00<ln->the Patch
13:00<pv2b>which one of them?
13:00<ln->the OS X path thing
13:00<pavel1269>that one, that you will shut up :))
13:01<pv2b>oh, that. well, successful, except for one bug. i forgot that some global variables are initialized in another fuction on windows than on posix machines, so i had an uninitialized global. otherwise it should work.
13:01<pv2b>so technically i didn't make a patch without breaking anything
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13:03<@Bjarni>it's a wicked world
13:03<@Bjarni>specially if pv2b managed not to break anything
13:03<peter__>well he didn't
13:06<pv2b>hey, you know, the promise i made about shutting up about this doesn't count if you bring the subject up *<:-)
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13:07<pavel1269>that at end you said now
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13:08<Eddi|zuHause2>very yoda you speak
13:09<pavel1269>or trying proper english? .)
13:10<@Bjarni>trying out your Engrish skills?
13:11<@Bjarni>I think people speaking Engrish would use smilies like ¦)
13:11<@Bjarni>Asians don't look like us :)
13:12<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r11738 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: Refactor realistic acceleration's curve counting to use DirDiffs instead of local tables, and remove an unnecessary loop.
13:12<peter__>Bjarnis don't look like peter__s
13:13<pv2b>peter__: also, you broke the zoom key a few months ago, so it all evens out *<:-)
13:13<@Bjarni>peter__: wtf???
13:13<Eddi|zuHause2>Bjarni: you mean like this?
13:14<pv2b>peter__: don't believe me? try going back to the revision just before the smooth scrolling patch. it'll work *<:-)
13:14<@Bjarni>Eddi|zuHause2: actually I was thinking about human beings
13:14<peter__>it's not that i don't believe you
13:14<Eddi|zuHause2>i was mainly referring to the smilie ;)
13:14<peter__>it's just that "lies" is a standard method of denial :p
13:15<pv2b>peter__: you watch too much of the early seasons of stargate sg-1.
13:15<Eddi|zuHause2>anyway, it's better than the clown smilies, for sure
13:15<Eddi|zuHause2>pv2b: lies!
13:15<peter__>anyway, it's not broken, it just behaves differently
13:17<pv2b>explain to me how it behaves. i can't find any pattern except "erratic"
13:25<peter__>seems to me if you're zoomed out, it zooms in on the centre of the screen, otherwise it scrolls
13:25<peter__>presumably it needs to zoom in to where the mouse pointer is
13:27<LordAzamath>that one, that you will shut up :))
13:27<LordAzamath> <pv2b> oh, that. well, successful, except for one bug. i forgot that some global variables are initialized in another fuction on windows than on posix machines, so i had an uninitialized global. otherwise it should work.
13:28<peter__>dman it
13:28<peter__>accidentally saved a header file :(
13:29<peter__>that i hadn't changed
13:29[~]peter__ awaits another full recompile :p
13:35<Eddi|zuHause2>you could "touch" the file ;)
13:35<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r11739 /trunk/src/main_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#1609]: Set the new scroll position after zooming in instead of before, as the zoom will cancel it out.
13:38<pv2b>peter__: btw, just for reference, which platform did you test that on?
13:38<peter__>linux, why?
13:38<pv2b>i'm just curious becuase rubidium couldn't reproduce it on his linux system apparently
13:39<pv2b>so either he was doing it wrong, or it was platform specific
13:39<pv2b>i guess he was doing it wrong if you could reproduce it on your end *<:-)
13:39<peter__>i'd guess it's because the bug report didn't contain enough information
13:39<peter__>or something, who knows
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13:40<peter__>that wasn't meant to happen
13:40<pv2b>"The zoom key (Z) doesn't center and zoom like it should. It just zooms, the centering becomes erratic. It still centers if zoomed in 100%, but not from a smaller setting."
13:42<pv2b>peter__: ooh, your solution seems to work slightly different from my patch if i'm reading the code correctly.
13:42<pv2b>because here, if you have smooth scrolling on it'll smooth scroll if you use Z
13:42<pv2b>even when zooming in, which could be a long distance
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13:43<peter__>but it zooms fairly quickly, so...
13:43<peter__>and if you don't want it, turn off smooth scrolling, heh
13:44<pv2b>that, or just zoom use immediate=true when zooming *<:-)
13:44<pv2b>but ok, whatever, i don't care. i don't use smooth scrolling anyway
13:44|-|thgergo [] has joined #openttd
13:44<pv2b>important thing is i can use Z again
13:49<Eddi|zuHause2>have i ever mentioned that i need PBS?
13:49<pv2b>Eddi|zuHause2: not that i've seen
13:53<Eddi|zuHause2>> grep Eddi* -C2 | grep PBS -C2 | grep need | wc -l
13:53<Eddi|zuHause2>rough estimation ;)
13:53<Eddi|zuHause2>[Sa Sep 8 2007] [22:27:55] <Eddi|zuHause3> argh, i need PBS :(
13:53<Eddi|zuHause2>[So Nov 18 2007] [03:39:08] <Eddi|zuHause3> and i really need PBS
13:53<peter__>PBS is for people who can't design junctions ;)
13:54<Eddi|zuHause2>i can design junctions
13:54<Eddi|zuHause2>just they always end up being designed for PBS ;)
13:54<pv2b>a lot of junctions would be much more compact and efficient with pbs
13:55<CIA-1>OpenTTD: egladil * r11740 /trunk/src/window.cpp: -Fix [FS#1610]: Modify and possibly discard key events for code points in the unicode private use area.
13:56<pv2b>wow! two of my bug reports squished! and i was barely half way though compiling r11739 *<:-)
13:56<Eddi|zuHause2>typical example of my junctions:,%2012.%20Mai%201939.png
13:57|-|MDGrein [] has joined #openttd
13:57<peter__>any thoughts on newgrf's tilt feature?
13:58<peter__>it's just a flag that if set gives trains less speed penalty when going round curves
13:59<Eddi|zuHause2>shouldn't that be part of "realistic" acceleration?
14:01<peter__>but our curve handling is different from TTDPatch's so following how it works there is probably not the best result
14:01<pv2b>Eddi|zuHause2: 404
14:01<hylje>pv2b: it works, you're doing it wrong
14:02<pv2b>hm. interesting.
14:02<pv2b>that chokes on safari.
14:02<pv2b>the redirect containing a ,
14:02<Eddi|zuHause2>pv2b: your browser/url catcher/whatever probably doesn't work with the ,
14:02<Eddi|zuHause2>try %24
14:02<pv2b>yeah, i wonder what the http spec says about , files
14:02<pv2b>, characters
14:02<pv2b>that works better.
14:03<pv2b>Eddi|zuHause2: that junction at the very left can be done with an extra bridge and eliminate one level crossing without slowing the train down at all
14:03<Eddi|zuHause2>bridges are bad
14:04<pv2b>bridges are less bad than level crossings
14:04<Eddi|zuHause2>(interestingly, i have that conversation every time...=
14:04<pv2b>and in this case you can do it without any changes in when a train has to go uphill and downhill
14:04<pv2b>so you don't even lose anything using bridges
14:05<Eddi|zuHause2>i lose [with one o even!!] realism
14:06<Eddi|zuHause2>that is one of the words that look as bad with one o as with two o, that's the prime reason why i always get it wrong
14:07|-|Gonozal_VIII [] has joined #openttd
14:08<Eddi|zuHause2>TTD bridges are unrealistic by themselves (e.g. too low), and building bridges into simple junctions is even more unrealistic
14:14|-|mcbane [] has joined #openttd
14:19<Eddi|zuHause2>those are the lines that i really missed... "heh" and "hmm" ;)
14:23<pavel1269>19:56 <Eddi|zuHause2> typical example of my junctions: <--- they look good except one thing
14:23<pavel1269>near that depot ...
14:23<Eddi|zuHause2>yeah, depots are always ugly
14:24<Eddi|zuHause2>because you need exits in all directions
14:24<pavel1269>but you can do that not that much ugly or tataly different
14:24<Eddi|zuHause2>instead of have the train leave backwards, and then turn on the line
14:24<Eddi|zuHause2>all station tracks are designed for leaving in both directions
14:26<Eddi|zuHause2>i can't have the depot how i would like it to fit the track design
14:26<Eddi|zuHause2>unless i change the tracks/signals each time i want to send a train to the depot
14:26|-|bumblebee [] has joined #openttd
14:27<pavel1269>i am using easy way
14:27<pavel1269>which dont look that ugly
14:27<pavel1269>and i have nowhere to upload it on :o)
14:28<Eddi|zuHause2>suggestion: i will send you the savegame, and you rebuild the depot how you think it would best fit my track style ;)
14:29<pavel1269>i will rebuild everything :o)
14:29<pavel1269>which i iwll not like soo much
14:29<Eddi|zuHause2>no, best if you keep it just to the depot
14:29<Gonozal_VIII>but don't send it to me, i would remove and rebuild your whole network ;-)
14:30<Eddi|zuHause2>i don't like a lot of the tracks either, but i have to fit all those signals in there somehow
14:30<pavel1269>send :o)
14:32<Eddi|zuHause2>4MB, could take a while to upload
14:32<pavel1269>4MB save or whole TTD?
14:33<pavel1269>2048x2048 fully build or what? :D
14:34<Eddi|zuHause2>trees are easily killing compressibility
14:34<Gonozal_VIII>we've been playing a 7mb map in multiplayer^^
14:34<Eddi|zuHause2>it isn't fully built by far
14:34|-|valhallasw [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:34<Eddi|zuHause2>it _should_ be loadable with standard ttd
14:35<pavel1269>well once we played around ~10mb .. it was sth like 20Kx512 :))
14:35<Gonozal_VIII>that was in a time with a lot more desyncs...
14:35<Gonozal_VIII>it was 2048^2
14:35<pavel1269>eddi, what version u play it in? and what newgrfs?
14:36<Eddi|zuHause2>2kx2k is like 8kx512
14:36<Eddi|zuHause2>so 20k is not much bigger
14:36<Gonozal_VIII>the good thing was that the friend i was playing with had 1mbit upload
14:36<Eddi|zuHause2>pavel1269: mainly dbsetxl and alpine
14:37[~]pavel1269 looking to his grfpack
14:37<Eddi|zuHause2>some tram sets, dutch catenary and stuff, but that shouldn't matter much
14:39<pavel1269>we'll see
14:42<pavel1269>your upload is 2kB/s or what? :D
14:42<Eddi|zuHause2>yeah, something around that ;)
14:43<Eddi|zuHause2>75% done
14:43|-|Bjarni [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
14:44[~]pavel1269 just downloaded one of his favourites games
14:44[~]pavel1269 doesn't property remember that one
14:45<Gonozal_VIII>i don't think you wanted to say property
14:47<Eddi|zuHause2>scroll to the right along the track
14:47|-|valhallasw [] has joined #openttd
14:48<pavel1269>i will place to each position what i changed a sign ;)
14:48<Gonozal_VIII>make a .diff^^
14:48<peter__>at, not to
14:48<Gonozal_VIII>that, not what
14:49<peter__>place a sign, not place ... a sign
14:49<peter__>"i will place a sign at each position that i changed"
14:49<Eddi|zuHause2>grammarnazis for the win! ;)
14:49<pavel1269>thats exactly what i wanted to say :D
14:49<Gonozal_VIII>i didn't start it^^
14:49<peter__>now i'm back, it's #openttd-english-lessons
14:50<pavel1269>peter__: so join :D
14:50<Eddi|zuHause2>btw... what's about the english speaker's habit of adding -nazi to everything? that is somewhat... uncommon... in germany ;)
14:50<pavel1269>Eddi|zuHause2: my FF is freezeed :(
14:51<Eddi|zuHause2>use a real browser...
14:51<pavel1269>what O_o IE? :D
14:51<peter__>lynx :D
14:51<Gonozal_VIII>ff is a real browser!
14:51<Eddi|zuHause2>just wget the file or something...
14:52<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm ff tries to open the file as text
14:53<pavel1269>FlashGet can get it too
14:53<peter__>that sounds a bit close to "flash git"
14:53<Eddi|zuHause2>i can't really influence that...
14:54[~]peter__ ponders 'investigating' the bottle of wine his boss game him before christmas
14:55<DeGhost>it's poisoned!!
14:55<pavel1269>can't get it anyway
14:55<peter__>probably, he gave me a pay rise just before that too :p
14:59<Gonozal_VIII>then it's poisoned for sure
15:00|-|dih [] has joined #openttd
15:05<peter__>well, that's great
15:06<peter__>i'll get a day off tomorrow
15:06<Gonozal_VIII>because of the poisoning?
15:06<Eddi|zuHause2>pavel1269: what exactly is the problem with getting the file?
15:07<Eddi|zuHause2>right click - save to disk?
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15:11<Gonozal_VIII>not every irc client has that?
15:12<LordAzamath>*With the degree of His Excellency, Zephyris, all old Factories everywhere are to be demolished. New ones to be built. Degree is to be committed immedeatly.*
15:13<LordAzamath>maybe :D
15:13<LordAzamath>I'll edit
15:13<Eddi|zuHause2>it's "Dekret" in german, so "g" sounds a bit off
15:14<LordAzamath>and dekreet in estonian :D
15:14<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm fence is missing
15:14<Eddi|zuHause2>well, that depends on dialect ;)
15:14<Gonozal_VIII>"missing"... not sure if it's needed
15:15<Noldo>looks different but with similar elements
15:15<Eddi|zuHause2>hm, the windows look like holes, not like glass
15:16<Gonozal_VIII>hmm i don't agree
15:16<Gonozal_VIII>they look like glass
15:16<Gonozal_VIII>the doors look like holes
15:16<LordAzamath>I hope you don't mind that I forgot to upload grf :D
15:17<LordAzamath>it's up now
15:18<LordAzamath>anyway, I'll do one thing more tonight and then I'm gone until Sunday
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15:58<ludde>btw, is ttdpatch still under active development?
15:58<Sacro>ludde: yeah, it is, slowly
15:58<Sacro>#tycoon on if you wanna join there :)
15:59<ludde>why don't they join openttd instead?
15:59<Sacro>i wonder how many would recognise your name and bow down
15:59<Sacro>err, eis_os can't for legal reasons
15:59<Sacro>patchman seemed to get WoWnapped
15:59<ludde>legal reasons?
15:59<hylje>wownapped, ha. that's a good one
15:59<ludde>lemme try if someone recognizes me :p
16:00<ludde>i was wownapped once too
16:00<hylje>oh me too
16:00<ludde>but it wore out after like 2 months
16:00<Sacro>ludde: i won't say anything ;)
16:00<pv2b>Sacro: legal reasons?
16:01<hylje>tbc didnt have that kind of grapple though
16:01<Sacro>I'm not sure if something happend with the government
16:03<+glx>any mingw user with an old mingw-runtime (before 3.14) ?
16:03<hylje>pi :-)
16:03<+glx>I upgraded my mingw and openttd fail to link, but I have a patch to fix it
16:04<+glx>works for me but I don't want to break compile farm and others
16:08<LordAzamath>Hello! I now finished coding Red*Star's ship depot for the replacement project.
16:09<Digitalfox_>LordAzamath: I don't think Red Star ship depot fits with the rest of open graphics, but that's just my opinion :)
16:09<Gonozal_VIII>i like the one from industrial stations renewal better
16:09<LordAzamath>don't know
16:09<LordAzamath>I may change it any time
16:09<Gonozal_VIII>ok, that wouldn't fit either...
16:10<LordAzamath>and rember that we have complete renewal so maybe it now fits
16:10<Gonozal_VIII>right... doesn't have to be all the same
16:13<LordAzamath>anyway, I go visit my relatives tomorrow and return in Sunday evening I think. So add comments in that thread, make new graphics :D and suggestions..but I can't code or draw anything during this school holiday anymore
16:13|-|bumblebee [] has quit [Quit: ( :: NoNameScript 4.2 :: )]
16:13<LordAzamath>and good night for now
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16:14<UnderBuilder>a question: would be legal recreating from scratch a copyrighted sprite from TTD and making it 100% identical?
16:15<UnderBuilder>it should be legal because you aren't modifying the originals
16:15<Gonozal_VIII>how would you proof that it's recreated and not the same?
16:15<peter__>if it's 100% identical then it's... copied
16:15<Gonozal_VIII>well... 100% identical IS the same
16:16<+glx>where are mingw users when you need them ?
16:19<Sacro>i think :\
16:19<+glx> <-- please check if it compiles
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16:21<Gonozal_VIII>i tried installing that stuff to compile openttd too but after some hours of searching and trying i gave up
16:22<+glx>using buildottd should be enough for this patch
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16:40<ln->interesting vehicle:
16:40<+glx>looks like it is a 2CV
16:41<+glx>it is for sure a flat-twin
16:41<Gonozal_VIII>that's obviously an opel
16:41[~]glx slaps Gonozal_VIII ;)
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16:50<Gonozal_VIII> <-- ^^
16:52<Gonozal_VIII>complaining that he can't have more money than 2^63 pounds^^
16:52<+glx>silly users
16:55<pavel1269>did u noticed that he plays on total narrow map? :)
16:55<+glx>330 planes is silly
16:55<Gonozal_VIII>yes and lots of planes
16:56|-|Osai changed nick to Osai^zZz
16:56<pavel1269>1planes_income == 5-10 train_income == 50-hundreads bus_incomes .o)
16:57<Gonozal_VIII>much more for long distances
16:57<pavel1269>i wonder how can he enjoy ... SimCity with no worries :)
16:58<Gonozal_VIII>he can't enjoy it... not enough money
16:59<pavel1269>insdead of trying to bugfind my RR i should make one airport/city ... make aicrafs loading much more .... and airport will influence whole city ...
17:00<pavel1269>si airport near it great railway station and train gogo :P
17:00<peter__>i guess we need to make Money a float...
17:00<+glx>int128 should do it :)
17:01<pavel1269>or like in other games ...
17:01<pavel1269>move to negative :)
17:01<Gonozal_VIII>i guess with a float that high a bus income wouldn't change anything
17:02<Gonozal_VIII>and after some time even the plane incomes wouldn't increase the value anymore...
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17:03<pavel1269>have you seen Wacki's todays house?
17:04<Gonozal_VIII>all his houses look great
17:04<pavel1269>and that 2. stage
17:04<pavel1269>how the hell he made that roof :)
17:04<pavel1269>what he creats, thats just great!
17:05<Gonozal_VIII>hmm the roof doesn't look that hard
17:05<Gonozal_VIII>regular shapes are easy.. the tree and flowers are difficult
17:05<pavel1269>since i cant draw anything more complex than one color circle ...
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17:07<pavel1269>wow i spent last 4 days trying to get to work RR
17:08<Gonozal_VIII>wtf is rr?^^
17:08<pavel1269>route restrictions == programmable signal
17:08<Gonozal_VIII>i still want programmable switches :D
17:08[~]glx is still waiting for feedback about is small patch
17:09<pavel1269>"about is small patch" ?
17:09[~]pavel1269 doesn't see anythink :/
17:09<Gonozal_VIII>[22:19:27] glx: <--
17:10<+glx>I want to know if it compiles with buildottd or mingw using mingw-runtime 3.13 or older
17:10<pavel1269>cant't help
17:11[~]pavel1269 is using MSVS
17:11<+glx>I know it's ok for MSVC (I have it)
17:11<UnderBuilder>a question: is propietary the .grf format?
17:11<UnderBuilder>because it was developed by microprose
17:12<UnderBuilder>if that's propietary, then we have to need to replace it
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17:12<peter__>depends how you define proprietory
17:13<peter__>at least 4 different pieces of software handle them
17:13<pavel1269>peter__: yes/no :D
17:13<peter__>and the specification is available
17:13<UnderBuilder>I mean if there are patents involved
17:14<peter__>i doubt anyone's bothered to look
17:14<Gonozal_VIII>ding fries are done
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17:19<UnderBuilder>one question... can I use graphics replacement set in a server that doesn't have the set on?
17:20<pavel1269>put it in your config under newgr-static
17:20<Gonozal_VIII>weeeeell not all of them
17:20<pavel1269>you can have there all newgrf which are not chanching some mechanism or statistic in-game or it will cause desync for ya
17:21<peter__>it shouldn't cause desyncs, it should just ignore the newgrf entry
17:21<pavel1269>hmm :)
17:22<+glx>desyncs should not happen as openttd checks if it is safe
17:22[~]pavel1269 is putting all newgrf to newgrf-static
17:24<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r11741 /trunk/src/ (train_cmd.cpp vehicle_base.h): -Feature: Add support for NewGRF's train 'tilt' flag. Trains with tilt capability (specific details are per NewGRF set) will be given a 20% speed limit bonus on curves.
17:25<+glx>hmm just though about it, but I need someone to check my patch with cygwin too
17:27<Gonozal_VIII>finland wtf
17:28<+glx>overpaid translator :)
17:29<Mortomes>Well, going to finland would put you at a safe distance from the tsunami.
17:34<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r11742 /trunk/src/ (6 files): -Codechange [FS#1319]: Run window tick events when paused, so that news pop-ups and the about window still progress. For other windows the events are ignored when paused.
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17:39<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11743 /trunk/src/group_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#1614]: group names got not deallocated in the command test run.
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17:41<peter__>^ old,, but still...
17:42<SpComb>what's that finland really supposed to mean there? :o
17:43<Gonozal_VIII>inland would be my guess
17:43<SpComb>as in, what the signmaker meant with that
17:43<SpComb>or meant to mean or such
17:43<Gonozal_VIII>as in away from the coast
17:44<Gonozal_VIII>would at least make some sense
17:45<Rubidium_>I guess Finland, ON is far enough from the coast to be safe for tsunamis
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17:48<pavel1269>peter__: wow, never saw that ;)
17:48<Sacro>that's what she said
17:49<Rubidium_>night peter__
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17:50<Gonozal_VIII>but i guess a strong building at the coast could be safer than the same building further away.. less debris in the water there
17:51<Rubidium_>but more 'pressure' behind the water close at the coast
17:52<Gonozal_VIII>yes that's why i said a strong building... nothing wooden... maybe a lighthouse
17:52<Rubidium_>any idea what the pressures could be?
17:53<Rubidium_>and the weakest part of a building are usually the windows and the door
17:53<Gonozal_VIII>depends on the shape of the walls
17:55<Gonozal_VIII>i guess you could apply the same principles for a tsunami as they are used for avalanches
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17:59<Rubidium_>I guess that's not possible due to the fact that water is very fluid and snow is (much more) solid; imagine a bin with snow and a small hole in the bottom, then push the whole snow mass down -> snow won't poor through the hole, water will
17:59<Rubidium_>thus, if snow breaks your window lots less will flow into your house than it would with water
18:00<Rubidium_>on the other hand the solidness could give more pressure
18:00<Gonozal_VIII>you don't have to keep the water away from the houses, you only have to slow it down and lead the force to safe places
18:01<Gonozal_VIII>the houses will still get flooded but they won't be washed away
18:01<Rubidium_>true, but one hole gets *very* big very quickly when water poors through into the areas where it should not go
18:01<Rubidium_>furthermore avalanches are of much smaller scale
18:02<Rubidium_>if it's a few hundred meters wide then it's big. A tsunami is rather in the order of hundreds of kilometers, so devertion gets much harder
18:03<Gonozal_VIII>yes, that's right... but there are also a lot more people
18:03<+glx>but you can be warned way before the tsunami
18:04<Rubidium_>on the other hand, big avalanches can usually be prevented by setting of much smaller ones; tsunamis can't
18:05<Gonozal_VIII>you could try to set off small earthquakes instead of waiting for a big one :-)
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18:09<dekan>hey, i'm having a problem with my gamserver .. it keeps on showing as different ports on the master server
18:09<dekan>using 0.6.0-beta2
18:09|-|Wolf01|AWAY changed nick to Wolf01
18:09<Gonozal_VIII>forward udp
18:10<dekan>gono mm?
18:10<Gonozal_VIII>3979 both tcp and udp
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18:10<dekan>oh, it is
18:11<dekan>wel,l i mean, it's not port forwarded .. it has it's own ip
18:11<Gonozal_VIII>pavel, what did you do?
18:11<dekan>i'm sure it used to work with earlier versions without issues
18:12<Gonozal_VIII>i saw your server on lots of different ports too
18:12<dekan>if i use -n from command line i can connect
18:12<dekan>oh, and the server is openbsd if that makes any diff
18:14<dekan>i'm assuming it's picking up on the port it's coming from .. and it's not coming from the rigth port for some reason
18:15<dekan>oh i turned server_advertise off for a bit also
18:15<dekan>but i wonder if there's a way to kill the current onse
18:16<dekan>hey there's still lots
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18:18<UnderBuilder>I am planning on do the fences for the opengrf proyect
18:19<pavel1269>00:11 <Gonozal_VIII> pavel, what did you do? --- ???
18:19<Gonozal_VIII>read a bit more
18:20<pavel1269>my server dont work ...
18:20<pavel1269>id didnt figured it out
18:20<dekan>pavel, so you never managed to fix it?
18:20<pavel1269>*i didnt
18:20<dekan>using openttd -n it works
18:20<pavel1269>tryed, but unsuccesful
18:20<pavel1269>whats -n?
18:21<+glx>yes -n ip:port#player
18:22<pavel1269>maybye later ..
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18:24<dekan>i think it's actualyl sending the individual ip addresses back from random pors
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18:27<UnderBuilder>there is a trouble... ship depots and road depots opengrfs have got the same grfid
18:30<dekan>pavel1269:29:59.027820 > udp 3 (DF)
18:30<dekan>pavel1269:29:59.053875 > udp 77
18:30<dekan>that seems to be the issue
18:32<pavel1269>dekan: what's that? :D
18:32<pavel1269>orrr ... hos can i solve that?
18:33<dekan>oh hangon
18:33<dekan>i don't know why it stuck your name in it
18:33<dekan>that was my problem :)
18:33<pavel1269>i may have same
18:33<dekan>but uhh, yeh. . i'm rtying to determine how it decides what outgoing port to use
18:34<dekan>you see how it comes from port 34172 to 3979
18:34<pavel1269>everything setuped right, nothing
18:34<dekan>then it replies from another port, back to 34172
18:37<dekan>i'm trying to google
18:37<dekan>not sure what to google fro exactly
18:38<pavel1269>dekan: are you registered at forums?
18:46<pavel1269>gn all
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18:51<dekan>okay, i've got some ideas now
18:51<dekan>i need to show the debug stuff though
18:52<dekan>oh it shows dbg hmm
18:53<dekan>bah, and this time it works
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19:01<UnderBuilder>there is a trouble... ship depots and road depots opengrfs have got the same grfid
19:02<Gonozal_VIII>you already wrote that
19:03<Gonozal_VIII>those grfs are only temporary anyways i guess, afaik they will be combined to one when everything is finished
19:06<dekan>hmm, i wonder if i can reproduce the problem i had eearlier .. i've actually got an idea what it could be
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19:07<Gonozal_VIII>with pavels server i got a new list entry with different port everytime i tried to join
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19:11<UnderBuilder>I think that the filenaming for openttd's opengrf set should be one per climate
19:12<Gonozal_VIII>btw how do grf artists decide grf id? is that just something random?
19:12<dekan>gonozal, yeh same for me
19:12<dekan>but i restarted with -d hoping to get debugging and it worked normally
19:13<UnderBuilder>well, it is already one per climate but what I want to highlight is that now trg1r holds elements from other climates
19:13<UnderBuilder>maybe there would be also a shared elements grf
19:15<UnderBuilder>and maybe create a function to add more climates without replacing current ones
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19:16<Gonozal_VIII>i think there are lots of sprites that are used in more than one climate
19:17<@Belugas>[19:17] <Gonozal_VIII> btw how do grf artists decide grf id? is that just something random? <--- they are suposed to forge something that will be unique
19:17<UnderBuilder>something that would be nice is a multiclimate world
19:18<@Belugas>GRF ID
19:18<@Belugas>This is a series of 4 bytes. It's a convention to use the first two bytes for the creator's initials in ASCII code, e.g. 54 57 for "TW". The last two bytes should be numbers, typically the first number identifying which of the author's sets this is, and the second number being a version number.
19:18|-|lolman [~lolman@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
19:18<Gonozal_VIII>ah i see
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19:19<@Belugas>[19:16] <UnderBuilder> I think that the filenaming for openttd's opengrf set should be one per climate<--- if i understnad it correctly, you're talking about the original data files
19:19<@Belugas>we do not touch them, they stay as they are
19:19<Gonozal_VIII>so 01 03 03 07 is not a good grfid?
19:20<@Belugas>it is a convention. not an enforced rule
19:20<@Belugas>do whatever you want, but make sure it is unique...
19:20<UnderBuilder>one question... what should I use to see pcx files in windows?
19:20<@Belugas>what goggle dopes say about that UnderBuilder?
19:20<@Belugas>does, note dopes...
19:20<UnderBuilder>propietary solutions maybe?
19:21<@Belugas>search... you'll see
19:21<Gonozal_VIII>picture and fax viewer or paint...
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19:23<Gonozal_VIII>with the codec...
19:23<@Belugas>[19:20] <UnderBuilder> and maybe create a function to add more climates without replacing current ones <---- you have NO idea at all of what you're asking... really not
19:24<DeGhost>all i want for christmas is more variations :D
19:24<DeGhost>and you life!!
19:24<Gonozal_VIII>you can already have 5 climates since a long time
19:24<DeGhost>to work on ottd
19:24<Gonozal_VIII>just activate/deactivate the toyland to mars grf
19:25<Gonozal_VIII>there's no limit to how many climates you can have that way
19:26<@Belugas>[19:29] <DeGhost> and you life!! <--- you can't have my life for a whole month, you will not be able to sustain it!
19:26<UnderBuilder>you are replacing toyland with it
19:26<UnderBuilder>that is not adding a new climate
19:26<Gonozal_VIII>toyland is still there
19:26<@Belugas>toyland is disguised in mars
19:26<UnderBuilder>the industries are the same...
19:26<Gonozal_VIII>grf can change them too
19:27<@Belugas>the grf have not gone far enough
19:27<Gonozal_VIII>in theory you would only need one climate and some grfs
19:27<dekan>mm, if i want to unload something to route it somewhere else, then how do i make the smae train not just pick it right back up again, if i want to load other cargo onto it afterwards?
19:27<Gonozal_VIII>you can't dekan
19:28<@Belugas>man.... takes forever to compile :S
19:28<Gonozal_VIII>use a seperate dropoff and pickup station for two way transfers... doesn't work any other way unfortunately
19:28<dekan>oh, hmm
19:29<dekan>well it seems to work if something's already waiting .. but not if it's not
19:29<UnderBuilder>and what about the multiclimate suggestion?
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19:29<@Belugas>i'd say screw it for now
19:30<UnderBuilder>so... in a map you have desert and artic simultaneously
19:30<Gonozal_VIII>that's been suggested several times
19:31<UnderBuilder>for example, at north and south extremes you have artic
19:31<UnderBuilder>at centre, you have tropical
19:32<Gonozal_VIII>we know what you mean, the idea is not new
19:32[~]Belugas nods
19:33<UnderBuilder>and whats better, a big central server which can handle a rich quantity of clients or a high quantity of small servers?
19:33<@Belugas>and ... if it was so 1) appealing 2) doable, it would already been made
19:34<Gonozal_VIII>many small servers becaus everything that runs on the server has to run on the clients too
19:34<@Belugas>UnderBuilder, get yourself a very good book of C++, learn thelanguage, then learn what OTTD has under the hood, and then, DO IT
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19:35<UnderBuilder>I prefer the former because the players are more nearer
19:36<Gonozal_VIII>huge map with lots of players wouldn't work for clients without highspeed internet and high end pcs
19:36<pv2b>Gonozal_VIII: it could, if the server sent them just enough information to render whatever they are looking at at any point in time
19:36<pv2b>Gonozal_VIII: that'd require *major* redesigning of openttd though
19:37<pv2b>as in a complete rewrite from the ground up of the network code
19:37<Gonozal_VIII>yes... truelight was working on something like that
19:37<UnderBuilder>but then, how can interact the players?
19:37<pv2b>not just the network code, in fact
19:37<pv2b>the entire game code
19:38<UnderBuilder>the players in a server can't talk with others of other server
19:39<Gonozal_VIII>well, to transfer chat text would be the easiest part i guess
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19:42<Gonozal_VIII>chat between clients on different servers... irc does that all the time
19:42<UnderBuilder>but irc chat doesn't include openttd chats
19:43<UnderBuilder>maybe include a irc client in openttd?
19:43<Gonozal_VIII>why do you want to chat ingame with players on different serversß
19:43<UnderBuilder>maybe there is someone you know in other server
19:44<UnderBuilder>imagine you have a friend playing ottd
19:44<UnderBuilder>how do you localize it?
19:44<Gonozal_VIII>icq ;-)
19:45<Gonozal_VIII>yes irc too...
19:45<UnderBuilder>maybe he isn't on irc and you haven't his icq
19:45<Gonozal_VIII>but you can try to include an irc client in openttd
19:45<@Belugas>[19:48] <UnderBuilder> maybe include a irc client in openttd? <--- lol ! getting better every time :D
19:45<DeGhost>that makes no sense
19:46<UnderBuilder>and the biggest quantity of IM people uses microsoft's network
19:46<DeGhost>why would i waste bw connecting with ppl on chance i might know them?
19:46<dekan>it'd be pretty easy to do a bot kind of system
19:46<dekan>that looks at what the dedicated server gets .. or somehow else bounces it
19:46<dekan>and then get in game chat .. but you don't really need it :)
19:46<DeGhost>we use signs in openttd coop
19:46<dekan>it reminds me of when i sent icq messages using micq and screen somehow sending to the console.
19:47<dekan>openttd coop i haven't done that yet.
19:47<Gonozal_VIII>i also communicate through signs a lot^^
19:47<dekan>i find the problem with openttd is that playing versus other players you kind of have to "expect" that people wont' be idiots.
19:47<dekan>and on the net you don't know who you'll find
19:48<DeGhost>airplane ftw
19:48<DeGhost>and mass landscape for 1 really long train
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20:03<Gonozal_VIII>nothing really matters
20:03<Gonozal_VIII>anyone can see
20:03<Gonozal_VIII>nothing really matters, nothing really matters to me
20:03<Gonozal_VIII>for great justice!^^
20:07<Sacro> <- WHOAH THAT AIN'T RIGHT
20:08<Eddi|zuHause2>just a supersized tram ;)
20:08<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause2: the back wheels :p
20:08<Gonozal_VIII>hmm there should be some people around to secure the crossing for that..
20:09<Eddi|zuHause2>what about them?
20:09<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause2: follow the rails
20:09<Sacro>(they should)
20:10<Eddi|zuHause2>just because you don't see the rails below the wheels doesn't mean they are not ther
20:10<Gonozal_VIII>i think there are rails around the curve
20:10<Sacro>so you hope
20:11<Eddi|zuHause2>sure there are, hence the warning side...
20:11<Eddi|zuHause2>*sign on the side
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20:57<UnderBuilder>will be generic tram set included with openttd someday?
20:58<UnderBuilder>so, if you don't have got one, at least you can use some trams
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21:06<Sacro>!seen egladil
21:06<Sacro>@seen egladil
21:06<@DorpsGek>Sacro: egladil was last seen in #openttd 9 hours, 31 minutes, and 36 seconds ago: <egladil> LordAzamath: will do :)
21:07<Sacro>ooh, he still lives
21:07<UnderBuilder>@seen Zephyris
21:07<@DorpsGek>UnderBuilder: I have not seen Zephyris.
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21:10<UnderBuilder>question: is possible to create a rv set where you purchase the engine and after you add to it the trailer with the desired cargo?
21:10<Sacro>night all
21:11<Gonozal_VIII>should be underbuilder
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21:14<Gonozal_VIII>it's pi o clock
21:16<UnderBuilder>other question, how do I build articulated rvs? it doesn't appear on the wiki
21:17<Gonozal_VIII>no idea... decode a grf and look :-)
21:31<UnderBuilder>would be nice as a parallel proyect to the opengrf proyect a set that adds to every climate some new industries and optimizes the already existant
21:31<UnderBuilder>I'll make a graphic with the proposed new industries
21:32<Gonozal_VIII>there are some sets that offer different new industries
21:34<UnderBuilder>maybe some optimizations to the existant industries, like steel mills accepting coal
21:36<Gonozal_VIII> <-- steel mill that accepts coal
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21:41<@Belugas>Gonozal_VIII: pretty cool, don't you think?
21:41<Gonozal_VIII>i use it since ecs works with openttd
21:41<@Belugas>UnderBuilder, do you know where to look for informations on newindustries?
21:42<@Belugas>good ^_^
21:44<Gonozal_VIII>wouldn't want to use the old industries anymore, georges vectors are so much better imho
21:44<Gonozal_VIII>even the alphas
21:45<mikegrb>Sacro: we had a heavily used track down the street for about half a mile in dowtown pensacola, fl
21:45<@Belugas>i have to say, to be honest, that i prefer pikka, as its style fits more with ttd style
21:46<@Belugas>george is a bit hem... adventurous :)
21:46<mikegrb>most of the rail traffic was at 2-4 am thoough
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21:46<Gonozal_VIII>i replaced most of the game graphics with various grfs, so not much ttd style left^^
21:49<@Belugas>good point
21:49<Gonozal_VIII> <-- that's my grflist
21:50<Gonozal_VIII>for some of them i have my own modified versions
21:50<Gonozal_VIII>hmm only trees and water edges
21:52<Gonozal_VIII>ah.. that reminds me that i wanted to modify a better tram grf to work with 4lv without replacing the trucks
21:52<@Belugas>noted... next time you'll come around with a bug, i'll know i will not touch it, sice there are way too many grfs involved :D
21:53<Gonozal_VIII>nonono... when i find a bug i always narrow it down
21:54<Gonozal_VIII>and the last 3 bugs i found had nothing to do with grfs^^
21:55<Gonozal_VIII>i did a lot of testing with all the grfs i could find in grfcrawler and in the forum and in the german forum and i even tried to search in the russian^^
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22:00<Gonozal_VIII>hi arbitrary, got some bridges/tunnels?
22:05<Eddi|zuHause3><UnderBuilder> question: is possible to create a rv set where you purchase the engine and after you add to it the trailer with the desired cargo? <- road vehicles cannot be put together like trains, but it might be possible to add trailers through refit options, although i do not remember a grf doing this
22:05<UnderBuilder>then, how do you build aRVs?
22:06<Gonozal_VIII>4rv has different trailers for different goods... default that to no trailer and you get what you want
22:06<Eddi|zuHause3>the grf specifies that a certain vehicle is articulated, if you buy that vehicle, it automatically adds the articulated parts
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22:36<@Belugas>sound of me going to bed
22:36<@Belugas>wave good night
22:37<Gonozal_VIII>always first in bed despite timezone^^
22:37<@Belugas>having a wife... you know... don't upset her ;)
22:40<Eddi|zuHause3> <- that turned out to be quite some essay...
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23:04<Gonozal_VIII>hausmeister krause :-)
23:05<Eddi|zuHause3>you act like you were the first one to imagine that association...
23:05<Gonozal_VIII>i'm not?
23:05<Eddi|zuHause3>almost :p
23:06<Gonozal_VIII>but much more people on irc know me
23:06<Gonozal_VIII>the evil connection resetter :-)
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23:09<Gonozal_VIII>[all:the:time] *** everybody has signed off IRC (Read error: Connection reset by Gonozal_VIII).
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23:44<Gonozal_VIII>bakerman is baking bread
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---Logclosed Wed Jan 02 00:00:47 2008