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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-01-02

---Logopened Wed Jan 02 00:00:47 2008
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00:20<Eddi|zuHause3>the night train is coming
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00:26<murray>toot toot
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01:43<Gonozal_VIII>you know what really sucks?
01:43<Gonozal_VIII>vacuum cleaners
01:43<Gonozal_VIII><-- bored
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01:59<egladil>Sacro: did you highlight me just for fun or did you want something? :p
02:00<Gonozal_VIII>that was 5h ago...
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02:03<egladil>well i was asleep
02:03<Gonozal_VIII>why would you do that?
02:03<egladil>because it's a good way to spend your time ;)
02:04<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm you may have a point there
02:04<egladil>of course i have
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02:19<SpComb>Logs: (old: )
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03:43<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm time to get some sleep
03:44<Gonozal_VIII>night all
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05:11<peter_>hey hey
05:22<peter_>i have a dual core machine
05:22<peter_>how is openttd using all of *both* cores?
05:24<TheMask97>peter_: answer is probably: not :)
05:24<peter_> 4139 petern 16 0 56328 10m 5768 R 149 0.5 1:16.10 openttd
05:24<peter_>the rest is being used by X
05:24<peter_> 4139 petern 16 0 56328 10m 5768 R 171 0.5 1:43.16 openttd
05:24<peter_> 9150 root 15 0 79660 61m 15m S 25 3.0 17:41.10 Xorg
05:25<peter_>for example
05:25<TheMask97>so much cpu %? how is that possible?
05:25<peter_>thought it might be the autosave thread
05:25<peter_>but it's not
05:29<dihedral>autosave runs in a separate thread?
05:30<peter_>ah ha
05:30<peter_>if i turn off the sound driver it only uses 1 cpu
05:30<dihedral>i thought autosave was run in the same thread and doCommands were queued in that time
05:30<peter_>er, no
05:31[~]dihedral is at work so he cannot check for himself... :-(
05:31<peter_>autosave saves the game into memory (quick) and then spawns a thread to compress and save it to disk (slow)
05:32<dihedral>ok - that makes sense
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06:31<dihedral>!seen Bjarni
06:31<dihedral>@seen Bjarni
06:31<@DorpsGek>dihedral: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 17 hours, 17 minutes, and 3 seconds ago: <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause2: actually I was thinking about human beings
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06:39<peter_>ah ha, export SDL_AUDIODRIVER=pulse works well
06:41<blathijs>incidentally, I've been toying around with pulseaudio for the past weeks as well
06:42<blathijs>in particular getting it to compile in embedded gentoo against uclibc :-)
06:42<peter_>er, ok :p
06:42<peter_>i just lazily use binary packages ;)
06:43<peter_>well, now i can mute ottd's audio without muting everything else
06:43<peter_>which is nice
06:44<peter_>hmm, or set the volume to 0% and it remembers it next time. handy.
06:44<blathijs>I tried that, but I only have 100M of storage :-)
06:44<peter_>but flash is so cheap these days...
06:45<blathijs>Hmm, setting volume per audio stream, didn't think of that yet :-)
06:45<dihedral>blathijs: what kind of hardware are you using? and how much space in total on which type of medium do you have?
06:45<blathijs>Yeah, I'm doing my testing on a 512M (or is it 1G?) USB stick that I plug in the back
06:46<dihedral>your computer?
06:46<blathijs>But I want to put the end result in the device's DiskOnChip (100M internal flash device)
06:46<blathijs>dihedral: It's an old thin client
06:46<blathijs>dihedral: 400Mhz K6-II IIRC
06:46<blathijs>With no moving parts :-)
06:46<dihedral>there are nicer things than that
06:46<blathijs>Yeah, but this one was free
06:46<dihedral>i.e. VIA 1GHz
06:46<Gonozal_VIII>400 mhz is much for openttd
06:47<dihedral>yes - but not for it's trains :-)
06:47<Gonozal_VIII>ok, maybe not for open... but for ttd
06:47<blathijs>But I'm not intending to run openttd on it, really
06:47<Gonozal_VIII>played it a lot with 166 mhz
06:47<blathijs>Might be fun to get Xorg to fit, though :-)
06:48<blathijs>But I have no screen to attach to it and it has no tv out
06:48<dihedral>i used to play ttd on a 486 dx2 90
06:48<dihedral>or was it dx4?
06:48<blathijs>I want to put it in the living room here so I can stream audio over the network to the living room stereo
06:48<dihedral>blathijs: have a look at the neo systems :-)
06:49<Gonozal_VIII>why don't you attach the stereo directly to your pc?
06:49[~]Rubidium_ had a dx four hundred ('sounds' soo much better when written that way)
06:50<dihedral>that is cheating :-)
06:51<Gonozal_VIII>why am i not sleeping?
06:51<Gonozal_VIII>night again...
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06:53<Rubidium_>dihedral: it would be cheating if I would've written dx400 ;)
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06:55<peter_>"dx four one hundred" is normal english
06:57<blathijs>Gonozal_VIII: Because my PC is not in the living room :-)
06:57<blathijs>Gonozal_VIII: And also because I only use a laptop, so I don't want to plug in yet another cable
06:58<peter_>bah, flightgear hits the sndrv_pcm_hw_params bug :(
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06:59<peter_>i found streaming with pulseaudio was very choppy :(
07:00<blathijs>dihedral: I should really use something ARM based for this, I guess, but that's more work :-)
07:00<peter_>but that could've been the wifi or the cisco 7940's passthrough ethernet port
07:01<blathijs>Dunno, haven't tried it with wifi yet
07:01<blathijs>Directly over ethernet worked fine for me
07:02<peter_>daap was fine over both but that's not realtime
07:03<peter_>itunes style sharing
07:03<blathijs>Ah, airport express thingy
07:03<peter_>that supports it also
07:05<peter_>oh crap
07:05<peter_>along with a payrise, and paying of a loan
07:05<peter_>i'm going to be
07:05<peter_>£666 better off
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07:09<blathijs>That's more than I make a month :-)
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07:42<UnderBuilder>is possible to make a rct-like game by forking openttd?
07:43<peter_>a lot of work though
07:44<peter_>might well be better off starting from scratch
07:44<hylje>you'd need a new map
07:44<hylje>because one can't fit that stuff on the current map array
07:45<hylje>so why doesn't one make a more freeform map and *then* fork? :-)
07:46<peter_>well there is that, heh
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07:51<UnderBuilder>I like rct, but what I kind of dislike is that it is objective based
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07:53<UnderBuilder>you play a fixed map and when the objective is done, you go to next level
07:53<UnderBuilder>a random map generator with a 'play until filled' gameplay will rock
07:54<peter_>it has a sandbox mode though, doesn't it?
07:54<UnderBuilder>I hadn't saw it
07:55<UnderBuilder>I have the first one (not the expansion, the first first)
07:58<peter_>i never played it much
07:58<peter_>like locomotion the build system is annoying
07:59<hylje>./configure && make
08:01<UnderBuilder>yes, but it has got a powerful flexibility
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08:26<Digitalfox_>roboman: From what country are you?
08:26<Digitalfox_>00:25? Australia or something?
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08:29<Digitalfox_>Your like the fist country to celebrate new year?
08:30<roboman>New Zealand is before us
08:31<Digitalfox_>New Zealand is the first country in the planet to celebrate new year?
08:31<Noldo>there are some small islands before that
08:31<Digitalfox_>oh, ok..
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10:08<UnderBuilder>LordAzamath: there is a trouble with the road depot replacement grf
10:09<LordAzamath>what kind of trouble
10:10<UnderBuilder>it has the same grfid that the ship depot
10:11<LordAzamath>Funny thing is that I only drew it
10:12<LordAzamath>and gave five lines of code
10:12<LordAzamath>I had no idea they changed grfid :D
10:12<LordAzamath>I suggest to wait for Zephyris to include it to infrastructure set
10:13<LordAzamath>then there will not be any grfid confusion
10:13<UnderBuilder>there is an issue with toyland roads: it is hard to recognise trams in tracks
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10:16<Hendikins>Hrm, I need to get myself a USB mouse. Then I can play openttd online at work :p
10:16<LordAzamath>have to contact Zephyris in that case...better make a reply to the thread with problems
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10:19<UnderBuilder>also, paved roads in toyland look different than outside ones
10:20<UnderBuilder>idea for toyland roads: why not make it checked like the terrain?
10:20<LordAzamath>btw we haven't made toyland roads yet ;)
10:21<dihedral>Belugas: you around by any chance?
10:22<LordAzamath>only thing that is done is terrain and deniyng of road depots
10:22<UnderBuilder>I said that so before doing them you had an idea of how will you do it
10:22<LordAzamath>I resay, make a reply or I'll forget
10:23<LordAzamath>but now g2g
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10:24<UnderBuilder>instead of electric pylons for elrails / trams there should be some odd replacement to it
10:25<Arbitrary>third rail in "not enough pixels" shocker?
10:28<UnderBuilder>maybe a post that throws rays to the locomotives?
10:28<UnderBuilder>or trams
10:37[~]glx is still looking for buildottd, mingw or cygwin users
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12:16<UnderBuilder>I should do the fences but my damn xp refuses to load pcx files
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12:21<+glx>what are you using to open them?
12:22<UnderBuilder>I have no programs installed
12:23<peter_>psp will load them
12:23<UnderBuilder>xp's viewer should have function to read it
12:24<peter_>pcx is rather obsolete
12:24<Ammller>UnderBuilder: gimp
12:25<UnderBuilder>the latest version for win is outdated
12:25<hylje>good luck on making sprites with no software
12:27<UnderBuilder>I should use paint to make the fence
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13:07<Draakon>looks like nobody is home
13:09<Draakon>as nobody answerd to my hi
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13:22<Sacro>tits or gtfo :p
13:23<Draakon>weee, i found the world scenario i was looking for :P
13:24<pavel1269>Draakon: hi :o)
13:28<Wolf01>we should call you not sacro, but sexro
13:29<Sacro>bloomin italians :p
13:41<DeGhost>you know what i need?
13:41<DeGhost>a signal that's always green
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13:42<Wolf01>i need a presignal always red instead
13:43<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r11744 /trunk/src/string.cpp: -Codechange: don't redefine snprintf when using MinGW Runtime 3.14 or superior, as it now have snprintf() and vsnprintf conform to C99
13:44<UnderBuilder>I started my own coop server
13:45<UnderBuilder>well, pretended to be a coop because nobody joined yet...
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13:50<pavel1269>DeGhost: no problem, i am making patch ... Programmable signals ... and one version ... well, signals won't turn red at any chance :))
13:53<DeGhost>yea cuz a always green signal i know there is always a free track ahead and i just want em to move forward!!
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13:56<Eddi|zuHause3>what sense does an always green signal have?
13:56<Wolf01>crash the trains
13:56<Eddi|zuHause3>it can't be green while a train is passing
13:57<Wolf01>in this case... it asserts, or the game crashes directly
13:57<Sacro>DeGhost: i've done that
13:57<Wolf01>you done all, sacro
13:58<Sacro>Wolf01: with what?
13:59<UnderBuilder>seems that noone wants to join my server :(
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14:03<dih>UnderBuilder: how long has been up for?
14:03<UnderBuilder>5~10 minutes
14:04<dih>then be pacient and stop wining
14:05<UnderBuilder>one entered but now leaved
14:05<hylje>why did dih forgot how to spell
14:21<UnderBuilder>seems that all the players are running out when they join
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14:22<koexistens>Hey, I'm just wondering, is there anyone here who is running OS X Leopard? I can't seem to get build r11719 to run.
14:22<koexistens>Btw, the latest build doesn't run either.
14:23<koexistens>Stable and beta does. :)
14:23<koexistens>In system.log:
14:23<koexistens>Jan 2 20:06:08 c-6474e455[76] ([0x0-0x12b12b].org.openttd.openttd[2114]): posix_spawnp("/Applications/OpenTTD/", ...): Bad executable (or shared library)
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14:24<koexistens>Tried to build r11719 from source also, which failed with linking errors..
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14:29<Eddi|zuHause3>Bjarni doesn't seem to be here
14:31<peter__>11744 is the latest revision..
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14:33<murray>is the guy who calls himself Maarten here?
14:33<koexistens>I need 719 to run the games at #openttdcoop
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14:40<Sacro>@seen Maarten
14:40<@DorpsGek>Sacro: Maarten was last seen in #openttd 3 weeks, 1 day, 22 hours, 52 minutes, and 33 seconds ago: <Maarten> BiA|pavel-css: A written test I did about 5 years ago, and about 2 years ago I did one online, but I can't remember where.
14:42<pavel1269>19:57 <Wolf01> in this case... it asserts, or the game crashes directly --- no, trains crash ... no assert failed, no game crash
14:42<pavel1269>why DorpsGek said my name :/
14:43<Draakon>it dint
14:44<pavel1269>BiA|pavel-css --- thats my old nick
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14:44<pavel1269>ahh, last maarten message
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14:59<Wolf01>!seen leviath*
14:59<Wolf01>@seen leviath*
14:59<@DorpsGek>Wolf01: leviath* could be Leviathan (2 weeks, 2 days, 3 hours, 53 minutes, and 38 seconds ago) or LeviathNL (2 weeks, 4 days, 0 hours, 39 minutes, and 58 seconds ago)
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15:16<Draakon>question: how can cargo waiting to be processed amount increase without a train unloading coal to a station?
15:16<Draakon>i am talking about power station
15:16<Draakon>> is it because of a nearby coal mine?
15:16<Gonozal_VIII>doesn't take coal from a mine by itself
15:18<Gonozal_VIII>are you sure that it increased?
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15:19<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm did the production increase? that also increases the stockpile size, that could possibly also increase the ammount stored
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15:26<Draakon>i am talking about power station here
15:27<Gonozal_VIII>i know?
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15:29<Draakon>i dont understand then what are you asking
15:30<Gonozal_VIII>i think the stockpile size is increased with a multiplier
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15:32<Draakon>which means?
15:33<Gonozal_VIII>that the multiplier could also increase the ammount stored
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15:40<pavel1269>bye 4 now
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15:47<Wolf01> AHAHAH
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15:54<Eddi|zuHause3>Wolf01: OOOLD
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16:00<Gonozal_VIII>do not want!
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16:25<+glx>koexistens: does r11708 works?
16:25<koexistens>Will try, wait!
16:25<+glx>@openttd commit 11709
16:25<@DorpsGek>glx: Commit by bjarni :: r11709 trunk/config.lib (2007-12-27 15:05:46 UTC)
16:25<@DorpsGek>glx: -Fix [FS#1385 FS#1386]: [OSX] Compiles on Leopard with the default settings
16:25<@DorpsGek>glx: -Change: [OSX] configure will no longer enable static by default
16:26<@DorpsGek>glx: Turns out that Leopard can't handle static builds without the user installing extra libs
16:26<@DorpsGek>glx: The tradeoff is that now people might have to enable static manually if moving the binary around
16:26<+glx>because your problem may be related to this commit :)
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16:32<koexistens>Compiling now.
16:38<koexistens>Same error as before...
16:38<koexistens>SRC] Linking openttd
16:38<koexistens>ld: warning in /usr/local/lib/libstdc++.dylib, file is not of required architecture
16:38<koexistens>Undefined symbols:
16:38<koexistens> "___cxa_guard_acquire", referenced from:
16:38<koexistens> AiBuildRoadHelper(unsigned int, int, int)in default.o
16:38<koexistens> BlitterFactoryBase::GetBlitters() in 32bpp_anim.o
16:38<koexistens> BlitterFactoryBase::GetBlitters() in 32bpp_optimized.o
16:38<koexistens> BlitterFactoryBase::GetBlitters() in 32bpp_simple.o
16:38<koexistens> BlitterFactoryBase::GetBlitters() in 8bpp_debug.o
16:38<koexistens>And then the list goes on for pages with missing links...
16:39<+glx>tried to reconfigure ?
16:39<koexistens>I just did the initial configure?
16:39<koexistens>Did I miss any arguments?
16:40<koexistens>Maybe --disable-static?
16:40<koexistens>But as you said, that sould be disabled by default.
16:40<+glx>after r11709 they should yes
16:41<koexistens>This strange link error is not one that I've found in the bug tracker..
16:42<koexistens>Ah, I know!
16:42<koexistens>It tries to link with my iPod touch dylibs!!
16:42<koexistens>Can I get it to not look for libstdc++.dylib in /usr/local/lib first?
16:43<+glx>LDFLAGS=/where/to/look ./configure
16:44<+glx>well -L/where/to/look :)
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16:44<koexistens>Nice, I just have to see where the standard dylib is...
16:45<+glx>maybe in /usr/lib
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18:11<UnderBuilder>I have got a trouble with opengrf set and r11744
18:11<UnderBuilder>the coast tiles doesn't get replaced but the water ones yes
18:12<Gonozal_VIII>known problem, will be fixed soon
18:12<Rubidium_>UnderBuilder: no kidding ;)
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18:59<CIA-1>OpenTTD: skidd13 * r11745 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Unify the spinner widget drawing of the difficulty settings window and make its disabled state min max aware.
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19:43<Sacro>now, shall i start by moving all signalling stuff to signalling.{c,h}
19:43|-|Greyscale changed nick to Greysc[a]le
19:44<Eddi|zuHause3>cpp i'd suggest ;)
19:44<Eddi|zuHause3>and rather signal_gui and signal_cmd, like the other stuff
19:46<Sacro>Progress on the AnkhSVN project is tracked by the CIA.
19:46<Sacro>that sounds quite worrying
19:46<Sacro>ooh yes, signal_cmd
19:52<Sacro>ooh, svn inbuilt into VS2005
19:52<Sacro>how sweet
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19:59<Sacro>who controls the Visual Studio build stuff?
19:59<Sacro>I feel there is some stuff needing sorting
19:59<Sacro>glx: why do i need unistd.h?
20:00<Sacro>and zlibstat.libz
20:01<Sacro>hmm, something tells me i need flex :\
20:02<+glx>you are not trying to compile openttd
20:02<Sacro>am I not?
20:03<Gonozal_VIII> <-- that's a flex
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20:03<Sacro>glx: yes i am
20:05<Sacro>its not called zlibstat.lib on windwos
20:05<Sacro>it should be zlib.lib
20:05<+glx>unistd.h is not needed
20:07<+glx>and it is zlibstat.lib because you need
20:08<Sacro>I don't wish to have loose files around
20:08<Sacro>can I not use gnuwin32 for it all?
20:08<+glx>zlib.lib requires zilb.dll to be present on all machines you want to use your binary
20:12<Sacro>i don't see this anywhere
20:12<+glx>by default zlib is a dynamic library
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20:15<Sacro>all i have is zlib1.dll
20:15<+glx>that's the official zlib dll
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20:16<+glx>"libgw32c (for developing with the Zlib library)" <-- that's the bad thing with gnuwin32
20:16<Sacro>i have that too
20:16<+glx>contains a lot of not really needed stuff
20:17<Sacro>well, i don't think i need it anyway
20:17<+glx>you need it to compile with "their" zlib
20:18<Sacro>how do i do that?
20:18<+glx>dunno I don't use libs from gnuwin32
20:19<+glx>I only use some exe
20:19<+glx>and when I need a lib I compile it myself
20:19<+glx>using official releases
20:20<Sacro>the wiki links to
20:20<Sacro>which then sends you to gnuwin32
20:25<Sacro>this is so confusing and annoying
20:25<Sacro>i think you don't need ZLIB_WINAPI
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20:30[~]Sacro is fiddling
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20:31<Sacro>eek, germans
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20:32<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause2: Germany :(
20:32<Gonozal_VIII>germans? noooooo!
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20:32<Sacro>oh noes... an at :\
20:32<Sacro>wtf is .at
20:32<Gonozal_VIII>austria :P
20:32<Sacro>ooh, hilly
20:32<Gonozal_VIII>and snowy..
20:32<Gonozal_VIII>snow sucks
20:33<Eddi|zuHause2>lies! he is in a valley!
20:33<Sacro>glx: now thats differnet
20:33<Sacro>i added /Progra~1/gnuwin32/bin to the binary file path
20:33<Sacro>now link.exe breaks it
20:33<Gonozal_VIII>but my valley is still some hundred meters higher than you are ;-)
20:34<Sacro>i am about +1m
20:35<Gonozal_VIII>lowest point in my town is ~500m and highest ~3000
20:35<Eddi|zuHause2>possible ;)
20:35<Eddi|zuHause2>i am actually on "high flats"
20:36<Eddi|zuHause2>or "high plains"
20:36<Eddi|zuHause2>almost 200m
20:37<Gonozal_VIII>i don't know if we even have regions that low here in austria
20:37<Eddi|zuHause2>well, the "Mansfelder Hochebene" is higher than the "Leipziger Tiefland"
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20:37<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm lowest point seems to be ~150m
20:38<Gonozal_VIII>and highest 3798
20:38<Sacro>lowst point in this city is probably about -1
20:38<Sacro>highest is about... +5
20:39<Gonozal_VIII>you'll all drown ;-)
20:40<Sacro>when global warming comes, Hull is the first city to go
20:40<Sacro>glx: where are the lib names specified?
20:41<Eddi|zuHause2>the village center (lowest point of the village) is 123m
20:41<Eddi|zuHause2>i am somewhat higher than that
20:41<+glx>Sacro: in vcproj :)
20:41<Gonozal_VIII>hmm actually the lowest point here would be the bottom of our lake... that would be somewhere around 375m
20:43[~]Sacro changes them
20:43<Gonozal_VIII>but you can't flood a lake..
20:43<+glx>else it is in properties/linking/input
20:43<+glx>if you want to use gui
20:43<Eddi|zuHause2>chuck norris can
20:44<Gonozal_VIII>i never got that chuck norris thing...
20:50<Sacro>glx: i reckon I can build it without freetype using the lib from gnuwin32
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20:51<Sacro>or not...
20:53<Sacro>i need freetype 1.4
20:53<Sacro>of course
20:53<Sacro>that explains it all!
21:02<Sacro>glx: think i've sorted i
21:03<Sacro>some kind of debug linking output would be nice though
21:03<ln->Sacro: ever been to denmark?
21:03<Sacro>ln-: nope
21:04<ln->nobody's perfect.
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21:08<ln->if you ever do, go ring bjarni's doorbell and hide
21:14<Sacro>oh i shall
21:16<Sacro>i think i'll just disable freetype
21:16<Sacro>not like i use it
21:18<Gonozal_VIII>bjarnis house is the one that looks like a steam train
21:19<Gonozal_VIII>can't miss it, just follow the rails
21:21<Gonozal_VIII>but be careful, it's guarded by robots
21:21<Gonozal_VIII>robots with lazers!
21:22<Sacro>i doubt that
21:26<Eddi|zuHause2>we've already seen the evil pirate robot with the eyepatch
21:28<Sacro>what happened to all the grf files?
21:30<@Belugas>been merged in openttdw/d.grf
21:30<@Belugas>i think
21:30<@Belugas>i'm sure
21:31<@Belugas>i'm certain
21:31<Gonozal_VIII>you guess
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21:39<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r11746 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix(r11727): Make sure that action 0A does follow the same new ordering of shore sprites. It was not considered in the missing shore patch
21:40<@Belugas>mars and alpine grf are now back to duty
21:41<Gonozal_VIII>newterrain and newwater?
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21:43<Sacro>shouldnt the binary be mvoed to the right folder?
21:43<Sacro>ie trunk\bin
21:43<Sacro>not objs\Win32\Release
21:45[~]Belugas leaves the scene and heads to bed.
21:45<Gonozal_VIII>night belugas
21:45<@Belugas>Sacro, i find it really convenient and logical that way
21:46<@Belugas>bye guyes
21:46<Sacro>Belugas: to move it, or to not?
21:46<Sacro>night Belugas
21:46<@Belugas>Sacro,m to keep it as it is
21:46<Sacro>Belugas: alright, night
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---Logclosed Thu Jan 03 00:00:22 2008