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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-01-04

---Logopened Fri Jan 04 00:00:46 2008
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02:47<dih>good (?:(?:morn|even)ing|afternoon)
02:48<Gonozal_VIII>abend ;-)
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02:57<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm does somebody know what the maglev version of sprite 2437 is? (and the following 7 sprites)
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03:00<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm i think i found it... 4366
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04:08<Gonozal_VIII>the maglev depot button and cursor are not in trg1r.grf :S
04:09<Gonozal_VIII>can't find them
04:10<Gonozal_VIII>been looking through those 5k sprites 3 times now...
04:11<peter_>they're in the openttd base grf
04:12<Gonozal_VIII>really? that's strange
04:12<Gonozal_VIII>the other maglev stuff is in trg1r
04:15<Gonozal_VIII>but you're right... found them
04:15<Gonozal_VIII>thanks... but how can i replace sprites from the openttd.grf with a newgrf?
04:15<DaleStan>Actions 5 and/or A.
04:16<DaleStan>But which and how is poorly documented at best. Ask your devs to elaborate.
04:18<Gonozal_VIII>thanks for the info
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04:48<Rubidium>using action 5 is the safest way to do it (won't work on 0.5.3 and less though)
04:49<Rubidium>on the other hand the offsets for action A would differ between 0.5.3 and the current versions too and might get changed in the future too, though the action 5 offsets will remain stable
04:49<Gonozal_VIII>it doesn't have to work with old versions
04:50<Rubidium>then use action 5
04:51<Gonozal_VIII>i'll try, thanks :-)
04:51<peter_>is there a document list of offsets?
04:53<Rubidium>no(t yet)
04:55<peter_>sounds like a job for Gonozal_VIII on the wiki ;)
04:56<Gonozal_VIII>that would require that i figure it out myself first^^
04:57<Rubidium>Gonozal_VIII: svn co svn:// && gimp split/openttdgui.pcx
04:58<Rubidium>and there they are, and all have the correct number except the last two (they don't have a number yet)
05:00<Rubidium><sprite-number> * <length> 05 95 01 \b74
05:00<Rubidium><real sprite>
05:01<Rubidium>would replace the maglev depot cursor (IIRC)
05:02<Gonozal_VIII>somehow my grf disables maglev, yay^^
05:05<Gonozal_VIII>and i messed up some town houses and most of the bridge ramps face in the wrong direction..
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05:10<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r11755 /trunk/src/debug.cpp: -Fix: Debug level string buffer was not long enough to contain all debug levels.
05:12<Gonozal_VIII>ok, the mess is not too bad...
05:14<Gonozal_VIII>what is \b74? 74 in hex?
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05:18<Gonozal_VIII>yay depot cursor works
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05:27<Gonozal_VIII>how did you get that 74?
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05:40<peter_>probably from SPR_CURSOR_MAGLEV_DEPOT = SPR_OPENTTD_BASE + 74,
05:40<Gonozal_VIII>ah... makes sense
05:40<peter_>in src/table/sprites.h
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05:49<Gonozal_VIII>hehe all the problems i had with the bridges and houses were the fault of a single wrong offset
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06:16<Gonozal_VIII>yay, got all cursors and buttons right
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07:36<sanitarium>Is anyone around that can help me with a specific compile issue with r11748? (hi, by the way! Nice to meet you hehe)
07:38<Gonozal_VIII>not if you don't write what the compile issue is (i can't help anyways) [why do i know your nick?]
07:40<sanitarium>sorry :p the last person I asked was a windows user lol... anyway, I noticed with this nightly it has set my default data directory to home/me/.openttd instead of /openttd/bin/data and I have never seen this before. Is there any way to get it to save my games etc.. in the /bin/data directory like normal or am I stuck with it this way?
07:41<sanitarium>I had to specify the revision number in this compile (which I don't usually do) because I recently started using trams newgrf's in my games. Would this have something to do with why it changed the /data location?
07:41<peter_>check the ./configure options
07:41<peter_>there's a section on paths
07:42<Gonozal_VIII>there was a lot of talk about default path stuff for macs
07:44<sanitarium>thanks peter, checking now :)
07:44<sanitarium>Gonozal_VIII: was it changed recently?
07:44<Gonozal_VIII>i don't know... they talked about it a lot
07:45<sanitarium>Ah! You know what I think would be GREAT? I wish we could have a click and drag buy land tool....its so anoying to have to buy it once square at a time
07:45<Gonozal_VIII>you have that in singleplayer
07:46<Gonozal_VIII>disabled in multi because it's annoying
07:46<Gonozal_VIII>should be server setting
07:47<sanitarium>it worked!!! peter thanks so much!
07:47<sanitarium>yes, I am very surprised because I am not used to messing with options :D
07:47<sanitarium><--- is not vry technically minded hehe
07:48<sanitarium>Gonozal_VIII: I cannot click and drag to buy there a key combination to do it?
07:48<sanitarium>(sorry for all the dumb questions)
07:49<Gonozal_VIII>that used to work
07:49<Gonozal_VIII>i guess that was miniin or chrisin
07:50<Gonozal_VIII>i don't buy land often
07:50<sanitarium>ah thats alright.... this game is great anyway.. i remember when I had only TTD on a 486...I'd literally walk away from my computer for years at a time waiting for something to happen hehe
07:50<sanitarium>neither do I...but everytime I do, I think "man that would be a GREAT feature"
07:51<sanitarium>Before when I ran the game from konsole it would use the correct /bin/data directory, whereas a shortcut on my desktop would use the .openttd/ directory... I had thought I was doing something wrong.
07:51<sanitarium>Anyway, thanks for your help guys I really appreciate it :)
07:52<Gonozal_VIII>ouch, it's 2pm already and i didn't get any sleep yet
07:53<sanitarium>its only 11:56pm here
07:54<Gonozal_VIII>where are you?
07:54<sanitarium>Victoria, Australia
07:54<Gonozal_VIII>ah i see
07:54<sanitarium>ohhh whats the weather like? I got lots of crappy summer heat to swap if you want it?
07:55<sanitarium>In fact I will send it free :D :D (there has to be an IRC option here somewhere...!)
07:55<Gonozal_VIII>hehe, you can have our -11° and half meter snow
07:55<sanitarium>awwww we NEVER get snow :(
07:56<sanitarium>and yes I'd love to...although I'd probably be complaining about the darn cold in about 1/2 hour
07:56<sanitarium>Anyway, its late (and cooler finally!) so I must be off...although I'm pretty inept at this computer don't be surprised if I come bother you guys again!
07:56<Gonozal_VIII>never snow, really? even in summer?
07:57<sanitarium>no, no snow EVER....well except some in the mountains in our country...although most of THAT is man made snow
07:58<Gonozal_VIII>i thought there would be some snow in the south...
07:59<sanitarium>Victoria is South-East Australia and we don't have any... Victoria is of course, the coolest state (temperature wise)
07:59<sanitarium>Anyway, I really must be off (sorry) got some pesky housework to do!
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08:16<Brianetta>Dudes, I got a segv when I try to play my 0.5 game
08:16<Brianetta>I have it halted in gdb right now (:
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08:17<Rubidium>can you post the backtrace on
08:18<peter_>assuming it's a debug build, heh
08:18<Brianetta>it isn't, but I can build one
08:19<Brianetta>I do have an unstripped binary
08:19<peter_>ok, unstripped build, heh
08:19<Brianetta>It's a newgrf-heavy game
08:19<Brianetta>I can provide all relevant wossnames
08:19<peter_>a savegame might be useful
08:20<Brianetta>I haev a few
08:20<Brianetta>they're the same game, but years apart
08:20<Brianetta>I was going to show it to my boss, but it kept dumping
08:20<Brianetta>so I rebuilt it with stripping disabled
08:20<Brianetta>and got gdb to run it
08:21<Gonozal_VIII>to your boss?
08:21<peter_>Gonozal_VIII, he clearly wants to get sacked :D
08:21<Brianetta>He was just showing me glist!
08:22<Brianetta>Recounting tales of how he beat his six-year-old-son, and then got trounced in teh rematch
08:22<peter_>dishwasher tablets?
08:23<Brianetta>glist is a free RTS
08:23<Brianetta>I think that's its name
08:24<peter_>doesn't appear in google
08:24<Gonozal_VIII>and rts is like glist where you have to pay
08:24<Gonozal_VIII>perfectly logical
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08:24<Brianetta>I knew it was something like that
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08:25<Brianetta>Rubidium: That's the saved game
08:25<Brianetta>If you need any of the newgrfs, let me know the md5sum
08:26<peter_>heh, still using old pgs
08:26<Brianetta>There's a reason for old stations
08:26<peter_>license probably
08:26<Brianetta>unambiguous licensing
08:27<peter_>old ukrs too
08:27<Brianetta>It is?
08:27<Brianetta>Shouldn't be too old
08:28<peter_>ooh, bug
08:28<Brianetta>You saw it?
08:28<peter_>different bug
08:28<peter_>when you load a game with incompatible grfs, the game starts paused
08:28<Brianetta>Mine started fine
08:28<Brianetta>I think it found the relevant old versions around the place
08:28<peter_>if you try to load a game, it then unpauses it instead of (keeping it) paused
08:28<Gonozal_VIII>why is that a bug? sounds like a feature
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08:29<peter_>$1 = (const SpriteGroup *) 0x1d
08:29<peter_>not a good pointer value...
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08:34<peter_>(gdb) print set
08:34<peter_>$13 = 5
08:34<peter_>(gdb) print totalsets
08:34<peter_>$14 = 4
08:34<peter_>pom te pom?
08:35<peter_>gdb) print v->cargo.Count()
08:35<peter_>$15 = 50
08:35<peter_>(gdb) print v->cargo_cap
08:35<peter_>$16 = 25
08:35<peter_>hmmz indeed
08:36<peter_>i guess some callback was implemented
08:36<peter_>or that might be cos my grfs are different... heh
08:37<peter_>it's a segfault at the right place though
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08:40<Brianetta>I found a bug (:
08:40<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r11756 /trunk/src/newgrf_engine.cpp: -Fix: Out of bounds access caused if a vehicle's cargo amount was higher than its capacity when resolving sprite groups.
08:41<peter_>well that was easy
08:41<Brianetta>Best kind.
08:41<peter_>assuming it's the same bug, heh
08:41<Gonozal_VIII>aaaaah you're peter1138
08:42<peter_>do you still have the zip of the grfs (assuming it's the same ones) ?
08:42<peter_>Gonozal_VIII, er, yeah
08:42<Brianetta>peter_: Not so much The Zip as a damned huge folder with loads of grfs in
08:43<Gonozal_VIII>i thought you were a random new peter^^
08:43<Brianetta>including subfolders containing earlier versions
08:43<peter_>hmm, i have a 24MB folder of grfs
08:43<peter_>4MB of pikka's stuff
08:49<peter_>well i guess you can just try the latest revision
08:50<peter_>i need a non-debug build to run this map
08:50<peter_>even on my 5600+...
08:50<peter_>(silly dualcore obsession)
08:52<peter_>heh, white has stuck trains due to an inability to use presignals properly
08:57<Brianetta>I was brown
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08:57<hylje>no more brown?
08:57<Wolf01>[14:42:00] <Gonozal_VIII> aaaaah you're peter1138 <- he is disguised to hide from me, but don't tell him i know his deceit :P
08:58<hylje>that's fairly meta, you know
08:59<Wolf01>[14:57:21] <Brianetta> I was brown <- eeek Michael Jackson
08:59<Wolf01>hi SmatZ
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09:00<SmatZ>hello Wolf01
09:00<peter_>damn it
09:00<peter_>i should've got Brianetta to post it to flyspray
09:00<peter_>would look better in the bugs-fixed stats ;)
09:01<Brianetta>I never managed to get a flyspray account working.
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09:01<Gonozal_VIII>tokai is a glx clone?
09:02<Wolf01>Joins: tokai (
09:02<Wolf01>Joins: glx (
09:02<Gonozal_VIII>tokai is a german glx clone?
09:03<+glx>stop that now
09:03[~]Gonozal_VIII stops that now
09:06<Gonozal_VIII>not much, not much
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09:07<peter_>"Please read the following license agreement carefully."
09:07<peter_>"I accept the terms in the license agreement ... ..."
09:07<peter_>useful :p
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09:07<Gonozal_VIII>it's written in white fonts size 0
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09:49<Eddi|zuHause3><Gonozal_VIII> you have that in singleplayer <- that was a user patch, it is not in trunk
09:50<Gonozal_VIII>i realised that some time later
09:50<Eddi|zuHause3>although i don't really know the reason why it isn't
09:50<SpComb>Logs: (old: )
09:51<Gonozal_VIII>i don't like to buy land in singleplayer because it looks ugly
09:51<Eddi|zuHause3>Gonozal_VIII: you are kinda slow in realising things, could that be? ;)
09:52<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah, buying land should only mark it, not clear it immediately
09:52<Gonozal_VIII>yes, but i make up for that with my ability to forget anything important fast
09:54<Eddi|zuHause3>ok, then it's all right ;)
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10:11<Gonozal_VIII>what's the trick with action 4?
10:14<Gonozal_VIII>bah... tired.. sleeping... night
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10:20<+glx>Gonozal_VIII: what do you mean?
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10:36<dih>!seen Bjarni
10:36<dih>@seen Bjarni
10:36<@DorpsGek>dih: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 2 days, 21 hours, 22 minutes, and 12 seconds ago: <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause2: actually I was thinking about human beings
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10:39<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r11757 /trunk/src/ (newgrf.cpp newgrf.h):
10:39<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix(r11727): Don't use a function's default parameter when the value can be (more adequately, even better) computed from another source.
10:39<CIA-1>OpenTTD: Thanks peter1138.
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10:43<Eddi|zuHause3>how many of my "default value" issues is that going to fix?
10:44<@Belugas>only ine, the one i introduced
10:44<@Belugas>"my" ?
10:44<Eddi|zuHause3>well... i have had a few newgrf issues, which i believe they are of "default value" nature
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10:47<@Belugas>could you explain a little more, i'm totally lost...
10:48<peter_>bugs of the unreported variety, maybe?
10:49<Eddi|zuHause3>most have been resolved, i believe
10:49<@Belugas>most? which ones are remaining?
10:50<Eddi|zuHause3>e.g. BR 01 wagon override set loading speed to 0 was resolved
10:50<Eddi|zuHause3>ore does not count as freight in DBSetXL/Alpine, that was not resolved, afaik
10:51<@Belugas>does it count as freigh in ttdp?
10:51<@Belugas>can you re-check in ottd?
10:51<Eddi|zuHause3>i think i tested it, and it did in ttdp
10:53<@Belugas>you mean "Bulk freight (Coal,Grain etc.,Ore,Fruit)" ? as in Cargo Classes, prop 28,29?
10:53<Eddi|zuHause3>as in, the freight multiplier does not apply
10:56<Eddi|zuHause3>i rechecked TTDP, it works there
10:56<@Belugas>fun... i do not know what property/action to check... none seems to refer toyour wording :(
10:57<@Belugas>unless it's a callback or something alike
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10:59<@Belugas>ha... there is a patch option... ok...
10:59<@Belugas>that's a start
11:00<Eddi|zuHause3>in openttd, it works correctly in temperate, but not in alpine (arctic)
11:00<@Belugas>and it's linked to the cargo...
11:00<peter_>,...,..., 0x15: /* Freight status */
11:00<peter_>,...,...,...,...cs->is_freight = (grf_load_byte(&buf) != 0);
11:01<peter_>check for that property, heh
11:01<Eddi|zuHause3>so i would assume it to be somewhere in the newindustries part of alpine grf
11:01<peter_>although alpine is probably pre-freight status
11:01<@Belugas>newgrf.cpp:1645, yes
11:02<@Belugas>my impression is that there is a problem with cargo loading in arctic. would not be the first time...
11:03<Eddi|zuHause3>i am pretty sure i mentioned that together with the loading speed problem back then
11:03<@Belugas>vehicle.cpp:2580 and train_cmd.cpp:62
11:04<@Belugas>vehicle.cpp is meaningless to the problem, i think
11:05<peter_>the grf doesn't set freight status
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11:07<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah, so it magically fetches a default value in ttdp so it works?
11:07<@Belugas>undocumented feature?
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11:14<peter_>ah, i think i can guess
11:15<peter_>the grf should really set the parameter though
11:15<dih>planes landing on rv's could be a funny idea :-P
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11:50<peter_>Eddi|zuHause3, do you compile?
11:52<chb>I've got a question about gameplay - when do oil rigs appear ... is this set to a specific year or does it depend on water level?
11:53<peter_>does alpine add any vehicles to use the new cargos?
11:53<peter_>chb, it's a fixed year
11:53<Eddi|zuHause3>hm, i never played alpine with default vehicles...
11:53<chb>peter_» i see .. when? ;-)
11:54<Eddi|zuHause3>i assume it enables the temperate vehicles in arctic
11:54<peter_>- 0 tonnes of iron ore (40 tonnes) (x4)
11:54<peter_>seems good
11:54<Eddi|zuHause3>except for the - ;)
11:55<peter_>it was the total list
11:56<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah, but that - is still odd... passengers don't have it
11:56<peter_>yeah they do
11:57<Eddi|zuHause3>then it is missing in the german string?
11:57<peter_>possibly so
11:57<peter_>i guess it's in the string with (x...)
11:57<peter_>but not the other one
11:58<@Belugas>chb: after 1960
11:58<Eddi|zuHause3>there's not even anything to translate in there...
11:59<chb>Belugas» thanks ..
12:01<Eddi|zuHause3>how does one report translation errors?
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12:04<Eddi|zuHause3>anyway, i think the - is bad, because it looks like a negative number
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12:26<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r11758 /trunk/src/ (cargotype.cpp table/cargo_const.h):
12:26<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix(ette): Populate 'void' cargo slots (unused slots in temperate and arctic)
12:26<CIA-1>OpenTTD: with default data as per pre-newcargo support. These slots are still disabled by
12:26<CIA-1>OpenTTD: default, but some NewGRFs (erroneously?) expect the default data.
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12:31<peter_>god the bodges we have to do :p
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12:38<Eddi|zuHause3>"fixette" :p
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13:09<LA[lord]>so...what's been up here lately...I just discovered that tt-forums have built-in IRC client, so I can chat :D
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13:18<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r11759 /trunk/src/ (clear_cmd.cpp gui.h main_gui.cpp terraform_gui.cpp): -Feature: Add drag-n-drop support to the raise/lower land tools. Land is raised/lowered at the start and the rest of the area levelled to match. Patch by Roujin.
13:21<UnderBuilder>yay :D
13:21|-|mindlesstux [~mindlesst@2001:470:1f07:16c:240:f4ff:fe52:a74e] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
13:21<dih>a commit by peter?
13:21<dih>well _hello_ there
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13:22<peter__>that's our user-supplied patch of the year...
13:23<LA[lord]>hmm...of this year?
13:24<peter__>an in-joke ;)
13:24<LA[lord]>peter, you were faster than me in replying..:(
13:24<LA[lord]>although both are 20:22
13:25<Eddi|zuHause3>your clock is wrong
13:25<@Belugas>60 seconds in a minute.... lots can be done :)
13:25<LA[lord]>how wrong is it now?
13:25|-|mindlesstux [~mindlesst@2001:470:1f07:16c:240:f4ff:fe52:a74e] has joined #openttd
13:25<LA[lord]>currently it's 20:25 here
13:26<@Belugas>13:31 in here
13:26<peter__>it's two hours out
13:26<peter__>18:26 mine says
13:26<LA[lord]>mine is 20:26 now too :D
13:26<Eddi|zuHause3>and mine is 19:26
13:26<Wolf01>19.26 :)
13:26<Eddi|zuHause3>must be a conspiracy
13:26[~]LA[lord] laughs at belugas' clock
13:27<peter__>do we have anyone on any of those crazy 15/30/45 zones?
13:27<Eddi|zuHause3>Belugas: are you always 5 minutes off?
13:27<@Belugas>dunno why
13:27<LA[lord]>it's his personal timezone
13:27<peter__>Eddi|zuHause3, he gets to go home five minute early :)
13:27<Eddi|zuHause3>oh, right ;)
13:28<LA[lord]>think of it, Belugas is only person in the whole world who has his personal time-zone :D weee
13:28|-|LA[lord] [~LAlord]] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!]
13:28<@Belugas>i did not kicked him, i swear!
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13:29<LA[lord]>hmm...back button is wrong one :P
13:29|-|dih [] has joined #openttd
13:29<LA[lord]>it disconnects :(
13:30<Eddi|zuHause3>only when you use silly clients...
13:31<LA[lord]>yes like the tt-forums integrated chat room
13:31<LA[lord]>because this laptop isn't mine and I don't want to install any software here
13:31<peter__>telnet exists :D
13:32<pavel1269>19:26 <Belugas> 13:31 in here ......... personal timezone ......... :D
13:32<LA[lord]>hmmm...anyway, one post by Roujin some time ago gave me this thought/question..What was the last feature you implemented based on a post in OpenTTD Suggestions?
13:33<Eddi|zuHause3>we do not read openttd suggestion thread ;)
13:34<Eddi|zuHause3>ore wagons work great now, btw ;)
13:34<LA[lord]>""Unfortunately I have the impression that the suggestions forum is just there to give the normal players the *feeling* that someone listens to their ideas - and not really a base for devs and patch devs to look for ideas.""
13:34<Eddi|zuHause3>now i have only one issue left
13:34<Eddi|zuHause3>or two
13:35<Eddi|zuHause3>or five
13:35<Eddi|zuHause3>or ...
13:35<LA[lord]>so to say, lot's of issues
13:35<peter__>Eddi|zuHause3, next time :p
13:37<Eddi|zuHause3>peter__: i knew i mentioned it:
13:38<peter__>that's not the iron ore/freight trains one
13:39<peter__>well, it's mentioned, but unrelated, heh
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13:40<Eddi|zuHause3>well, if you insist, i will put a feature request for PBS on there ;)
13:41<peter__> Major opcode of failed request: 135 (XFree86-VidModeExtension)
13:41<peter__> Minor opcode of failed request: 10 (XF86VidModeSwitchToMode)
13:41<peter__>making ottd switch from fullscreen to windowed failing :(
13:42<peter__>wondering what's wrong with this laptop
13:42<Eddi|zuHause3>i never play full screen...
13:42<peter__>it works perfectly well on my desktop
13:42<peter__>same os...
13:43<@Belugas>not same hardware capability :)
13:44<Eddi|zuHause3>passenger wagons are way too short...
13:44<@Belugas>ChangeDisplaySettings (in Win32) needs better param values, i think
13:44<pavel1269>hmm i play always full screen when not testing
13:45<LA[lord]>I don't
13:45<Eddi|zuHause3>i always play maximised window
13:45<peter__>i'm on linux
13:45<LA[lord]>I hava 'always' lot's of things opened in taskbar
13:46<pavel1269>but i have one mouse so i can control only one thing :P
13:47<LA[lord]>so full-screen is a nono...Gotta pack three mice and four rats next time pavel :)
13:47<@Belugas>linux? well... obviously not a win32 problem :)
13:49<Eddi|zuHause3>"XFree86" usually does not point to windows ;)
13:50<pavel1269>somehow is v->max_speed changing ... where is then stored max train speed?
13:52<@Belugas>in the vehicle specs
13:53<pavel1269>hmmmm .... v->u.rail.cached_max_speed?
13:53<pavel1269>is train max speed all time there?
13:53<pavel1269>or it's changing too?
13:55<@Belugas>have you checked in table\engines.h:366 ?
13:55<@Belugas>or you're not talking about the same thing at all...
13:55<LA[lord]>hmm...Are betas builded on top of trunk? So in 0.6 stable the Roujin's patch will be in?
13:56<LA[lord]>but RCs don't add features as such so they will be bugfixes of previous RCs?
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13:59<@Belugas>betas are not RCs
13:59<LA[lord]>I know
13:59<peter__>betas are pre-branch
13:59<peter__>RCs are post-branch
14:00<@Belugas>when we'll release 0.6 rcs, they will follow the same pattern as other RCs
14:00<peter__>for us, anyway :)
14:00<peter__>i'm not quite sure of the point of those betas, heh
14:00<peter__>possibly to get more testing of new feature
14:00<peter__>(duh, that's the point of a beta)
14:01<LA[lord]>maybe a unified point revision for multi
14:01<pavel1269>Belugas: yes about this ... :/
14:01<pavel1269>i hope :D
14:02<@Belugas>what i've shown yu are the default datas.
14:02<Rubidium>the ideas of betas is to get lots of extra tester that would otherwise use RCs. The advantage of this is that we do not have to backport fixes made between betas whereas we have to do that for RCs
14:03<Rubidium>i.e. less work for us, meaning we can effectively do more
14:03<pavel1269>Belugas: but ... they must be stored in Vehicle or not? or the original value is taken from there??
14:03<@Belugas>taken from there
14:04<@Belugas>or supplied by grf files
14:04<pavel1269>so i get it by engine id ...
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14:04<pavel1269>i will search a bit in source, ty
14:05<@Belugas>engines.h might help yu
14:06<pavel1269>no :)
14:06<pavel1269>v->u.rail.cached_max_speed ...
14:06<pavel1269>is what i wanted ;)
14:06<pavel1269>it doesn't changed like max_speed did
14:23<Eddi|zuHause3>there peter__ ... like that?
14:24<Eddi|zuHause3>hm, i should have removed some irrelevant grfs...
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14:29<peter__>i knew about that bug
14:29<peter__>of course, i always forgot about it, heh
14:30<peter__>hi Roujin
14:30<Roujin>thanks for including my patch :)
14:30<Roujin>nice surprise ^^
14:30<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah, i also knew about it, and i also forgot about it every time ;)
14:31<Eddi|zuHause3>but now it's on flyspray, there's no excuse anymore ;)
14:31<peter__>Roujin, no problem ;)
14:31<peter__>Eddi|zuHause3, yeah, thanks, heh
14:31<peter__>i know why it happens too
14:31<Eddi|zuHause3>i assume it's in the gradual loading handler
14:31<Roujin>what bug are you talking about?
14:32<peter__>gradual loading sends the "you've got new cargo" event, rightly, and the grf triggers change the whole lot :o
14:32<peter__>Roujin, and old newgrf one
14:33<Roujin>oh ok, thought it was about something else when eddi mentioned gradual loading..
14:33<Roujin>so nvm..
14:38<Roujin>sooo.. reason why i actually bumped my area terraform patch is because i started working on a new patch
14:39<Roujin>but i cant figure something out :/
14:41<peter__>i think that was probably the first patch i haven't tweaked at all, heh
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14:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r11760 /trunk/src/ (6 files):
14:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Codechange: unify the way how other end of a tunnel/bridge is determined at some places
14:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix: adding road/tram to tram/road bridge was cheaper by one tile
14:46<hylje>ooh, exploit fix!
14:47<hylje>(not really an exploit but .. EXAGGERATION)
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14:55<Noldo>if I have function that returns CommandCost can actually return anything that can be casted to thet with constructors?
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15:23<LA[lord]>hmm...I'm about to edit wiki, but I need to know for sure, 100% rating in stations decrease the output of an industry, yes?
15:24<peter__>i shouldn't think so
15:24<LA[lord]>As I have understood about 80% is the best
15:24<Noldo>that's what I have heard too
15:25<LA[lord]>because 100% often decreases production...and not only on oil wells :P
15:25<Noldo>ask the #openttdcoop people
15:26<LA[lord]>in it says that 100% cargo transfer results in a 3.8% chance for output to grow, but it decreases
15:26<LA[lord]>Noldo, I play #coop myself too, though not member :D
15:27<@Belugas>LA[lord], depends of the economic model, of the grf (if any)
15:27<@Belugas>and more, i'm sure...
15:27<LA[lord]>but if I ain't got any grfs, this still "works"
15:29<peter__>i don't remember there being any direct links between station rating and industry production
15:30<LA[lord]>indusrty delivered percent depends on station rating doesn't it
15:30<LA[lord]>and this states what happens when production changes
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15:56<Wolf01>64x64 maps with all the ECS sets loaded are very cool
15:59<+glx>is there free space to build tracks?
15:59<hylje>tracks are overrated
16:00<@Belugas>yeah, use road!
16:00<peter__>you just need two bus stops
16:00<peter__>with a large catchment area
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16:08<Ailure>between 0.6 (beta) and the nightly
16:08<Ailure>have there been anything intresting new stuff?
16:08<Ailure>Been absent :)
16:09<SmatZ>Ailure: raise/lower land with dragging ability
16:09<SmatZ>commited just today :)
16:09<@Belugas>a good bunch of fixes
16:09<@Belugas>but we all kow fixes are boring
16:10<Ailure>boring, but important
16:10<Ailure>buggy software is not fun
16:10|-|peter__ [~petern@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:10<Ailure>and nice, read about that patch on the forums earlier
16:15<Wolf01>uh, i just wanted to try the new feature, when i clicked on the "create new scenario" button, i found that the images of the climates are changed ò_O
16:17<DaleStan>Wolf01: You didn't happen to load any ECS GRFs, did you?
16:17<Wolf01>yes i did
16:17<Roujin>sneaky George :P
16:17<DaleStan>Then unload them, and the changed climates will disappear.
16:17|-|Greyscale changed nick to Greysc[a]le
16:18<Wolf01>now... how can i use the new feature?
16:18<Roujin>actually i wonder how a >patch< with a few lines of code should generate new icons ^^
16:19<Wolf01>grfs maybe
16:19<+glx>Wolf01: ECSTown IIRC
16:20<Roujin>just drag and drop somewhere with the raise or lower land tool selected
16:20|-|Greysc[a]le changed nick to Greyscale
16:20<Wolf01>doesn't work :/
16:20<Wolf01>in the editor
16:21<Wolf01>where this feature is extremely useful
16:21<Roujin>oooo but the editor has this adjustable size thingy already
16:23<Wolf01>but behaves slightly differently
16:23<Roujin>ok, it's not really the same... maybe drag and drop could also be enabled in the editor if the size is set to one
16:25<Wolf01>Roujin, maybe i already asked you, but do you think is possible to have a tool to raise the land by keeping pressed the mouse button and move the mouse up and down?
16:28<Wolf01>this way you can make pyramids very quicly, and bigger is the brush, bigger is the pyramid
16:28<Eddi|zuHause3>,%2028.%20Aug%201948.png <- now the master question, how do i prevent the steam train from taking the middle exit without using a waypont on the right (train view) exit?
16:29<hylje>use a waypoint as penalty
16:29<hylje>pathfinder penalty
16:30<Eddi|zuHause3>but that is not implemented, afaik
16:31<hylje>it is
16:33<Eddi|zuHause3>i don't see adjustable penalty for it...
16:33<Roujin>Wolf01: I'm afraid that would be too complicated for me.. that would require a whole new kind of drag-and-drop
16:35<Roujin>I don't think there is anything that has such a kind of control yet in OpenTTD. Honestly I would not know how to do that :(
16:36<hylje>now that's a goal ;)
16:37<Eddi|zuHause3>there's drag&drop in the depot window
16:38<Roujin>but it only needs to do something when you click or release
16:38<Roujin>not inbetween
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16:39<Roujin>nah, that's not a project for me... I'll stick to little things i can actually manage ;)
16:39<peter__>laptop suspended :o
16:39<@Belugas>speaking of projects...
16:39<peter__>keyboard didn't work when it came back
16:40<Roujin>maybe someone else is interested in that, so
16:40<Roujin>HOLY CRAP
16:40<hylje>i take that is *not* the well-engineered thing the other day
16:40<Roujin>I'M OFF TESTING
16:41<Eddi|zuHause3>hylje: it doesn't work
16:43<@Belugas>does not seems to be a rewrite of the old pbs, the hackykid one
16:43<Roujin>hmm can't apply it either
16:44<Eddi|zuHause3>"This is not the official PBS! For that look in the other thread." <- maybe it is less official than he thinks it is :p
16:44<Roujin>dang, now i crapped my pants for nothing :(
16:44|-|Greyscale changed nick to Greysc[a]le
16:44<@Belugas>it's a git diff
16:44<peter__>it's a git diff
16:44<peter__>damn it
16:45|-|Greysc[a]le changed nick to Greyscale
16:46<Eddi|zuHause3>how does one convert that to a "real" diff?
16:46<peter__>it is a real diff
16:47<+glx>use -p1 to apply that's all
16:47<LA[lord]>Good night!
16:47<@Belugas>good idea, LA[lord], good idea...
16:47<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah, that did it ;)
16:47<@Belugas>Good night all!
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16:51<Roujin>good night belugas
16:53<Roujin>ah worked for me now aswell... ooooh excitement :P
16:55[~]peter__ waits 5 million years
16:57<Eddi|zuHause3>oh hell is that slow...
16:58[~]Roujin starts to faint as the compiler is currently at the letter m
17:00<Eddi|zuHause3>it's very noisy on the console
17:03<peter__>i get loads of train crashes on the title map
17:04<Roujin>he said that in the forum thread :P
17:04<+glx>peter__: what did you do?
17:04<+glx>the new pbs?
17:04<peter__>yeah, just loaded it
17:05<peter__>now it's locked up :(
17:05<Eddi|zuHause3>my trains are locked up, too...
17:05<peter__>ah, and recovered. hm.
17:05<Roujin>hehe maybe he wrote and tested it on a supercomputer only :P
17:06<peter__>hmm, all signals are pbs
17:06<peter__>seems to be junction based
17:07<Roujin>tell us more :O
17:07<Roujin>us being the poor people still compiling xD
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17:10<peter__>Eddi|zuHause3, if you can run it without a console window it runs much faster
17:10<peter__>(^Z "bg", etc)
17:10<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah, i figured that ;)
17:10<peter__>that just means your trains crash/lock up quicker
17:10<peter__>shame :(
17:11<peter__>from what i can see
17:11<peter__>only signals and junction tiles are actually reserved
17:11<peter__>that may just be what's visible though
17:12<peter__>but if not, that makes finding a crossing path harder
17:14[~]peter__ reverts
17:14<peter__>tis not quite ready yet, heh
17:15<Roujin>they ignore signals that point the other way?
17:15<Roujin>i can't build one way lanes with that...?
17:16<peter__>i didn't get that far
17:16<Eddi|zuHause3>why harder? crossing paths must cross at a switch or crossing
17:17<reto>is there a patch which allows to see how much traffic is on which rails?
17:17<reto>like trains-passes/yearh
17:17<peter__>Eddi|zuHause3, point :p
17:17<reto>transparent = < 10, green < 20, orange.. etc.
17:17<peter__>maybe it just doesn't see some touching paths as colliding
17:18<reto>or avg/speed last year: full speed transparent, 75% speed orange (useful for jam detection
17:20<Eddi|zuHause3>reto: there was a waypoint-statistics patch
17:20<reto>Eddi|zuHause3: my idea would be for all tiles, not just for wayoints
17:20<reto>kinda overlay the user could acitvate
17:21<ln-> (barcodes)
17:21<Eddi|zuHause3>i haven't had any problems in a new game yet...
17:22<Eddi|zuHause3>someone should teach him how to do debug output ;)
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17:26<Roujin>either this patch does something very wrong, or i have understood something very wrong in terms of pbs signalling
17:26<@Bjarni>or both
17:27<Roujin>trains are not supposed to go on a track which has one way signals facing AWAY from that train, or are they?
17:27<peter__>the driver had no red signal...
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17:28<pavel1269>Roujin: you are right
17:28<pavel1269>but i know that only with YAPF
17:28<pavel1269>NPF ... i retire from getting to it :D
17:30<@Bjarni><peter__> the driver had no red signal... <-- well... that's real life. I think he meant inside the game
17:31<@Bjarni>but talking about real life signals whenever somebody shows up with an OTTD signal problem sounds like a good idea
17:31<@Bjarni>I guess I can do that without any problems :D
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17:35<Lonestar79>someone here?
17:35<Roujin>yes, look at the list on the right
17:36<Roujin>these people are all here :P
17:36<Lonestar79>just wanted to be sure someone really reads this
17:36<Lonestar79>at least they are logged in
17:36<Lonestar79>but now to my question
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17:37<Lonestar79>I played TTD and TTD Patch in SP .. the AI was not really smart, but at least able to build up a working company..
17:38<Eddi|zuHause3>don't finish that sentence :p
17:38<Lonestar79>in OpenTTD all AI Players are hardly doing anything...
17:38<@Bjarni> <Lonestar79> but now to my question <-- you already asked one at this time
17:39<@Bjarni>there is a 1 question for every 10th minute limit in here
17:39<Lonestar79>Ill wait
17:39<@Bjarni>I just made up that rule :D
17:39<Lonestar79>i know
17:40<@Bjarni>but the point is that questions like "can I ask a question?" is rather pointless.... just ask the question right away
17:40<Lonestar79>i searched the forum for that thing ... but found nothing.
17:40<Lonestar79>I didnt ask to ask a question
17:41<Lonestar79>I just said that I will ask my question ;-)
17:42<Lonestar79>I cannot believe that the AI behaves the same at other players and no one writes something about it
17:42|-|Osai changed nick to Osai^zZz
17:43<peter__>you didn't search very well
17:43<@Bjarni>you searched the wrong one :P
17:43<Lonestar79>I couldnt search for 'AI' :(
17:43<@Bjarni>or something
17:43<SmatZ>Lonestar79: there are often bugreports about AI, and they are often closed very soon
17:43<SmatZ>because old/new AI is not maintainted
17:44<Lonestar79>I dont complain about the original TTD / TTDPatch AI ... it was not really good, but it wasnt that bad, too
17:44<Lonestar79>so Open TTD got a complete different AI than TTD?
17:45<SmatZ>Lonestar79: no, but OTTD has many new features, and AI may be confused because of it
17:45<Vikthor>Roujin: Actually I think that wolfc may have intended, that trains drive trough one way signals from back.
17:46<Eddi|zuHause3>this is nice and all, but then there definitely needs to be a "never pass here" signal
17:47<Lonestar79>maybe I should ask in another way:
17:47<Lonestar79>who of you ( who plays SP) thinks ther is nearly NO difference wether play with AI or without?
17:48<Vikthor>Eddi|zuHause3: Well it does seem like WIP. May be that is also planned
17:50<Roujin>@eddi: agree
17:51<Roujin>lonestar: i don't play with AI, but maybe that is because AI is not bright
17:51<Lonestar79>all topics about bad AI I can see implicate that there IS an AI
17:51<Roujin>but, there is a branch called noAI which aims to create a completely new AI
17:52<Lonestar79>when I play I feel as if there is no AI at all... I dont feel AI isnt bright... I feel like AI is just nothing
17:52<Roujin>currently that new AI works only with road vehicles though
17:52<Lonestar79>hum ... I read about
17:53<Eddi|zuHause3>i have not played with AI long before i started with TTD
17:53<Lonestar79>I just wondered because of the signifficand drop of AI from TTD / TTDPatch to OpenTTD
17:53<Lonestar79>Eddi: was?
17:55<Lonestar79>however.... got to go to bed. my wife is just going and I got to go to work tomorrow
17:55<Eddi|zuHause3>i meant i played without AI in TT (original)
17:56<@Bjarni>work tomorrow?
17:56<Eddi|zuHause3>before i even found out TTD existed
17:56<@Bjarni>during the weekend?
17:56<Lonestar79>yep ... I got to work 4 hours saturdays
17:56<Eddi|zuHause3>hm. the depot finding does not take these reverse signals into account
17:57<Lonestar79>bye... my girl is calling :-)
17:57<Lonestar79>maybe I am on again...
17:57<@Bjarni>you do it that quick?
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18:04<Roujin>hmm i asked in his thread about the signal issue
18:05<Roujin>he answered "it is not a bug, it is a feature (TM)"
18:05<Roujin>ok, seems i haven't gotten the hang out of pbs yet
18:06<Eddi|zuHause3>well, it's incomplete...
18:06<UnderBuilder>what should I do?
18:07<ln->Bjarni: do you know Cocoa?
18:07<@Bjarni>I know what it is
18:07<@Bjarni>but coding it.... tricky
18:07<Roujin>bang, just managed to crash my first trains in my pbs test game :D
18:07<@Bjarni>Roujin: it's only a simulation... nobody died in real life
18:08<@Bjarni>at least that's what we keep telling ourselves about accidents like that
18:08<Roujin>we're only telling ourselves that? O__O
18:08<Eddi|zuHause3>we are not schitzophrenic
18:09<@Bjarni>either am I
18:10<Eddi|zuHause3>oh this screws up so heavily with old savegames...
18:10<@Bjarni>but I might be
18:10<@Bjarni>me too
18:10<Eddi|zuHause3>not even stop all and then release one train after another works right...
18:10<@Bjarni>anyway I read the strangest thing the other day
18:10<Roujin>dang, the crashed trains left their pbs reservation
18:10<@Bjarni>Apple is getting sued for making a monopoly
18:11<Eddi|zuHause3>Roujin: that is an improvement over the old version :p
18:11|-|Dark_Link- [] has joined #openttd
18:11<@Bjarni>because they are NOT using MS's wma in iTune store
18:11<Roujin>no i mean they left... it there where it was
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18:11<Roujin>in what sense would that be an improvement? oO
18:11<@Bjarni>how can you be sued for making a monopoly because you are NOT using a Microsoft product???
18:12<Eddi|zuHause3>Roujin: the old version removed them before the trains were fully removed :p
18:15<@Bjarni>how about implementing a system where a train drives slow enough to stop in front of any danger?
18:15|-|Zothar [] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.79 [Firefox]]
18:16<@Bjarni>could be useful to enter a block with broken trains
18:16<@Bjarni>that would likely need more CPU power than this feature is worth
18:16<egladil>ln-: what do you want to do with cocoa?
18:17<@Bjarni>that's actually a good question :)
18:18<ln->well, as we all know, FTE is the best text editor on the planet -- see e.g.
18:18<ln->and it doesn't have a Cocoa port, so...
18:18<ln->nor any other Mac port besides X11
18:20<ln->so, the actual question is whether Cocoa provides something that can easily be used as the text area, i.e. fixed-width font, 16 colors
18:21<egladil>it should
18:22<egladil>that should cover it :)
18:23<@Bjarni>guys do you have any idea to why *something* just deleted everything inside ~/Library ?
18:24<@Bjarni>luckily I wasn't my account but it scared the hell out of me just the thought of losing everything
18:24|-|chb [] has quit [Quit: chb]
18:24<egladil>huh?!? that wouldn't be fun at all
18:24<@Bjarni>it didn't look like the computer was attacked by any malware or anything
18:25<ln->egladil: but the point is not to use something like NSTextView, but to handle colors, input events and stuff within the program, and make the thing look like the one in screenshot.
18:25<@Bjarni>I spent a great deal of time looking at the computer and couldn't find anything wrong
18:25<@Bjarni>besides all the settings were gone
18:25<ln->sounds... interesting
18:25<@Bjarni>I searched the net too without any luck
18:26<@Bjarni>to be honest I'm at a loss to what happened.... meaning I have no way of preventing it from happening again
18:26<ln->Bjarni: try #macdev@freenode? (although it's not strictly a developmental question)
18:26<@Bjarni>how is this even considered to be a developer question at all?
18:26<egladil>i bet you could get a NSTextView to look like in the screenshot by using a fixed width font and changing char colors
18:27<@Bjarni>it wasn't full disk or anything else like that one might suspect
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18:32<pv2b>Bjarni: very strange
18:32<pv2b>but it's ok, you keep backups, right? :-)
18:32<ln->Bjarni: anyway, there are some people on #macdev who know something about mac stuff. (abuse them.)
18:32|-|peter__ [~petern@] has quit [Quit: peter__]
18:33<@Bjarni><pv2b> but it's ok, you keep backups, right? :-) <-- wasn't my computer... I was told to come and take a look because it made no sense to the owner
18:34<@Bjarni>people of #macdev beware
18:34<@Bjarni>tomorrow I will come :P
18:35<ln->only tomorrow?
18:35<Eddi|zuHause3>grmbl... i hate deadlocks...
18:35<Eddi|zuHause3>i need a combo signal that does not behave like a presignal
18:35<@Bjarni>yeah tomorrow
18:36<@Bjarni>right now I'm not paying enough attention to IRC to ask strangers ;)
18:36[~]Bjarni has something to prepare for tomorrow
18:36<@Bjarni>you see... I have to attend a meeting
18:36<ln->you're going on a date?
18:36<dih>hello Bjarni
18:37<@Bjarni><ln-> you're going on a date? <-- I sure hope not.... AFAIK no females will show up
18:37<@Bjarni>hi dih
18:37<Eddi|zuHause3>not even the locomotive is female?
18:37<dih>a sheloc :-P
18:38<@Bjarni>but there will not be any locomotives present either
18:38<@Bjarni>it's a meeting
18:38<@Bjarni>talk and paperwork
18:38<dih>covet covet covet - NOT
18:38<pv2b>-Feature: Add drag-n-drop support to the raise/lower land tools. Land is raised/
18:38<pv2b>lowered at the start and the rest of the area levelled to match. Patch by Roujin
18:38<pv2b>hmmm... sounds great. thanks :-)
18:39<dih>try it - should be in the last nightly if i am not mistaken
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18:46<Roujin>@pv2b it is not in the scenario editor tho
18:46<Roujin>only in game
18:47<GT>Hi Guys, first time on IRC, hope I'm not interrupting any discussion
18:49<@Bjarni>not more than everybody else
18:50<@Bjarni>and welcome to a complete waste of time :P
18:50<pv2b>Roujin: that's ok, i don't use the scenario editor. would be nice if it were there too.
18:50<pv2b>i'll have to try it in a while :-)
18:52<GT>"welcome to a complete waste of time"
18:52<GT>Sound promising...
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18:55<Roujin>wasn't there once a film or something called complete waste of time?
18:55<Roujin>ah no it was a game
18:56<dih>hehe - ironic :-P
18:56<Roujin>Monty Python's Complete Waste of Time
18:57<Eddi|zuHause3>"This schedule takes 8700 ticks to complete"
18:57<Eddi|zuHause3>"This vehicle is 60784 ticks late"
18:58<Eddi|zuHause3>someone should really introduce a modulo there...
18:58<Roujin>took a shortcut?
18:58<@Bjarni>ohh... btw did I tell you about the guy flaming linux during our robot presentation in mid December?
18:58<@Bjarni>(this is a good story :D )
18:58<Roujin>anything with robots in it is a good story...
18:59<@Bjarni>well... we use linux in the lab
18:59<@Bjarni>most of us anyway
18:59<@Bjarni>the computers are dual boot
18:59<@Bjarni>one guy insisted that it was best to boot in windows
18:59<@Bjarni>and flamed linux loudly for doing stupid stff
19:00<@Bjarni>so he used windows when he made his presentation for the rest of us about his results
19:00<@Bjarni>all of a sudden windows showed this nice window telling that it was done installing updates and that it would restart
19:00<@Bjarni>and "later" was grayed out
19:00<Roujin>ahahaha ^^
19:01<@Bjarni>then people started saying the same stuff as he just said except it was about windows
19:01<dih>how red did his face get?
19:02|-|Greyscale changed nick to Greysc[a]le
19:03<@Bjarni>not red enough :(
19:03<GT> Too bad
19:04<@Bjarni>he just continued and declared his presentation as over when the computer started shutting down
19:04|-|Greysc[a]le changed nick to Greyscale
19:04<@Bjarni>if it haven't done that then he would have kept on talking for like 30 sec or so (I think)
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19:08<+glx>I think I already read this story here :)
19:08<GT>So what, I think it should be told every week
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19:10<GT>As you might have guessed, I'm a Linux user too (Gentoo) so I like these kind of stories
19:11<+glx>GT: it was this story ;) not a similar one
19:12<@Bjarni>looks like most of the people reading it has changed but not the story
19:12<@Bjarni>so it was worth to tell it again :)
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19:14<GT>But now a serious question( :-( ) and the reason why I came here, does anybody know if someone is developing for 32 bpp graphics, since I'm creating a patch for the extra zoom levels, and don't want to do double work
19:15<+glx>someone on the forum is working on it IIRC
19:15<SmatZ>GT: how far are you with your patch?
19:16<GT>If that someone is GeekToo, well, thats me, just a lazy typer. I can show tile sprites for deep zoom levels, and scroll windows and add dialogues w/o ugly bits.
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19:17<+glx>I wasn't sure it was you :)
19:17<GT>Now you are
19:19<Gonozal_VIII>who is who?
19:19<+glx>I'm me
19:20<Gonozal_VIII>wow! me too!
19:20<Rubidium>Gonozal_VIII: who is who
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19:22<GT>So he ( who ) is working on 32 bpp too, I'll think I'll contact him
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19:28<Eddi|zuHause3>we are ...
19:29<Gonozal_VIII>we do!
19:30<Eddi|zuHause3>i'd have said "immer bereit", but there is no appropriate translation...
19:30<GT>Try 'always ready'
19:30<Eddi|zuHause3>that doesn't quite get the meaning ;)
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19:37<Wolf01>'night all
19:37|-|Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
19:38<GT>I've read that, and did not understand all of it (I'm not German) but I do understand that it does not quite get the meaning
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19:40<GT>I know Egladil did some work on 32bpp in the past, but does not seem to be active recently, so is anybody else ?
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20:12<ln->ok, i have a custom class derived from NSView; black background, some white text on it...
20:14<ln->i suspect it is best to draw the stuff myself, because all i want is basically an N×M table of characters with attributes for each.
20:15<ln->and i want nothing like line-wrapping, scrollbars or other help from NSTextView
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20:17<ln->good to have this book, helps a lot.
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22:16<selckin>why is pasanger transport totally superior as a money maker
22:17<bumblebee>because u are a greedy bastard at the ticket price
22:18<selckin>very long coal train never needs to wait for goods 100k/yr, pasanger trains betwean 2 towns 810k a year
22:19<bumblebee>set more coal tankers on the train?
22:20|-|Greysc[a]le changed nick to Greyscale
22:20<selckin>13 of em
22:20<Eddi|zuHause2>answer: cities grow faster than coal mines
22:21<selckin>seems a bit utterly unbalanced and silly, thought i might be missing something
22:21<Eddi|zuHause2>who said the game was balanced? :p
22:22<selckin>nobody :)
22:22<selckin>but was reading some sites, and they all go coal for big money at the start
22:22<Eddi|zuHause2>yes, at the start, when cities are too small
22:23<bumblebee>because the cities are so small then
22:23<+glx>you can make money with passengers at start
22:23<selckin>cities are far supperior to coal at the start
22:23<Eddi|zuHause2>then maybe your coal lines are wrong :p
22:24<Eddi|zuHause2>anyway, there are people who do passenger-only games
22:24<selckin>find the 2 biggest cities, make 2 stops in eatch, that unload transfer at a train station
22:24<selckin>get ritch
22:25<+glx>you are not using newgrfs, are you?
22:25<+glx>it's very hard to make money from passengers with high running costs in 1920
22:26<selckin>maybe becuase i usualy start in 1950 then ?
22:26<+glx>without newgrfs you can't start before 1950 (no vehicles)
22:27<+glx>well you can but you lost some money before being able to buy anything
22:27<Eddi|zuHause2>i think they start in 1935 or something
22:28<+glx>hmm maybe in temperate yes
22:29<Eddi|zuHause2>it's a long time ago since i played the last time with default vehicles ;)
22:29<+glx>I never remember the appearance dates ;)
22:30<Eddi|zuHause2>selckin: anyway, get a newgrf vehicle set like DBSetXL or UKRS, then start in 1920, see how well you do then
22:30<Eddi|zuHause2>UKRS is closest to the original vehicles, because they are both based on british rail
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22:31<bumblebee>where do u get that grf?
22:32<Eddi|zuHause2>i like the dbset more, for ... some ... reason
22:32<+glx>your location probably ;)
22:32<+glx>I'll use a french set if it was done
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22:37<@Belugas>Eddi|zuHause2, dbset is made by MB?
22:37<Eddi|zuHause2>yes, that one ;)
22:37<@Belugas>the same MB who made alpine set?
22:38<Eddi|zuHause2>how many MBs do you know? :p
22:38<@Belugas>my point ;)
22:38<@Belugas>i bet that MB has the same nationality as you ;D
22:39<@Belugas>since yu love alpine soo much hehe
22:39<@Belugas>and dbset too
22:39<Eddi|zuHause2>that might just as well be coincidental ;)
22:40|-|Greyscale changed nick to Greysc[a]le
22:42<@Belugas>ok... sleepy time for me
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---Logclosed Sat Jan 05 00:00:37 2008