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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-01-11

---Logopened Fri Jan 11 00:00:46 2008
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04:38<dihedral>hello peter__
04:39<peter____>i need a web developer / coding guy
04:39<peter____>in the uk, that is
04:41<dihedral>why in the uk?
04:41<dihedral>what is it you need, and any specific location in the uk, peter__?
04:42<peter____>yes, to be located in buckinghamshire
04:42<peter____>this is for permanent employment, not a bit of php on the side ;)
04:45<dihedral>why on earth is that underscor line at the end of you nick longer than yesterday?
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04:45<dihedral>does it grow ^^
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04:48<peter____>peter_ and peter__ were already taken :d
04:49<dihedral>and - when did they last login?
04:49<dihedral>'cause if it's a while back they can release it again
04:49<dihedral> ^^
04:50*roboman is bored
04:52<dihedral>play hide 'n seek in the dark... we'll come to find you
04:52<roboman>I dont feel like playing TTDP/OTTD unless its coop
04:53<roboman>or on someones server
04:53<roboman>with someone
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04:55*roboman wonders where his windows XP disk is
04:55<roboman>and why his pc wont boot/repair
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05:16<peter____>gah, power brown out :(
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05:30<dihedral>one o
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05:54<dihedral>by the way, storing a game_seed in the config of servers has a side affect
05:54<dihedral>every first map of a dedicated server is then based on that seed
05:58<dihedral>@seen Bjarni
05:58<@DorpsGek>dihedral: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 1 day, 13 hours, 51 minutes, and 30 seconds ago: <Bjarni> declaring that nobody else enters his garage
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06:07<rave>excellent, the game is still popular I see
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06:15<dihedral>hello Maedhros
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06:16<Maedhros>hi dihedral
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06:25<dihedral>hey SmatZ
06:26<SmatZ>hello dihedral
06:26<SmatZ>hello :)
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07:57<dihedral>one of the devs might want to check out this statement
08:00<Maedhros>that post would make more sense in, but he's already posted there...
08:02<dihedral>i meant the statement about closing industries being a general bug in ottd and soforth
08:17*SmatZ agrees automatic industry closing / construction should be a patch option
08:17<SmatZ>as it is useful for scenarios
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08:28<Digitalfox>Anyone uses a good program to merge 2 or more txt files in just one txt?
08:28<Maedhros>cat ?
08:29<Maedhros>not telling people which OS you're using doesn't help, btw ;)
08:29<pv2b>Digitalfox: is this on windows?
08:29<pv2b>because on most other operating systems (which happen to have a unixlike userland) there's cat.
08:29<Digitalfox>sorry windows
08:30<pv2b>oh :-)
08:30<pv2b>copy file1.txt+file2.txt bigfile.txt
08:30<pv2b>use copy/b if you're doing binary file concatenation
08:30<pv2b>the b is for binary
08:30<pv2b>otherwise windows manages to mess them up somehow
08:32<Sacro>tum te tum
08:33<ln->Digitalfox: install cygwin
08:35<Sacro>copy does it just fine
08:39<Digitalfox>Well it's 234 txt files each with 2MB, it's txt files with IP's ranges that contains what my ISP considers internal traffic and gives me ilimited traffic to use with that IP's..
08:39<Digitalfox>" - Internacional " for line
08:40<Sacro>write an application!
08:40<Digitalfox>" - Nacional " another line
08:40<Digitalfox>yeah if i could, i'm alreday using a program to test each ip in my ISP
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08:40<Digitalfox>in an automatic mode
08:41<peter____>"test" ?
08:41<Digitalfox>yes, my ISP has a web page that when you insert an ip says what it considers to be
08:42<Digitalfox>National or International
08:43<Digitalfox>This program i use test each ip automatic by using that page, and then writes a txt with the category it belongs
08:43<skidd13>If you like the city and other stuff too :D
08:43<Digitalfox>skidd13: Thanks but not that
08:44<Digitalfox>this is the web page we can insert a IP
08:44<Digitalfox>Let's say you put it will say it's an internacional IP
08:44<skidd13>The page I posted provides the ip-ranges sorted to countries :D
08:45<skidd13>Basicly the basis for your posted script :D
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08:45<Digitalfox>putting this one will say it's a range in nacional list
08:45<pv2b>Digitalfox: so what are you trying to achieve?
08:46<Digitalfox>But skidd13 my ISP has to have some kind of agreement with another ISP to consider it nacional otherwise even in portuguese terrain it will say it's internacional
08:47<pv2b>Digitalfox: why are you concatenating the files?
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08:47<dihedral>why not log to a db?
08:47<Digitalfox>Well here in portugal we have some kind of ipfilters with just the nacional ip's our main ISP considers nacional traffic, and we use it with servers we only want people from to join, use it in P2P programs to only download nacional traffic etc...
08:47<skidd13>Digitalfox: If you are in the same country, wheres the problem?
08:47<Digitalfox>Example # PT Prime
08:48<Digitalfox>Skidd my ISP doesn't think that way it has to have a specific route and use some kind of agreement
08:48<Digitalfox>For example it Uses AS702 from Verizon, but doesn't like any US AS
08:48<pv2b>Digitalfox: ok, so you have text files with networks considered to be national and international, now what doyou want to do with that data?
08:49<Digitalfox>pv2b, well first i need to remove any ip on txt that says internacional
08:49<skidd13>Digitalfox: Ah not fastest route... cheapest route :D
08:49<Digitalfox>Then i need to convert any /24 to /16 or /17 if needed
08:50<pv2b>Digitalfox: why don't you just store the data about permissible addresses in some kind of tree structure?
08:50<Digitalfox>Then manually i'll have to make a query to see what AS or organization uses that IP so it looks better and people know what ip's they are allowing
08:50<pv2b>that way you'd get pretty fast lookups
08:51<pv2b>i'm interested in what you're trying to do, not how you're doing it :-)
08:51<Digitalfox>Because a lot of portuguese progrmas were made to work with just a txt ip/16
08:52<Noldo>doesn't that break stuff horribly when behind a nat?
08:52<Digitalfox>It just blocks any traffic used by that program that isn't in the list
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08:53<Digitalfox>let's say emule, by loading the txt it will not allow any internacional Ip's to connect
08:53<pv2b>Digitalfox: oh wait, you want to find "blobs" in the permissible/nonpermissible networks and consolidate them into fewer networks to reduce the number of lines?
08:53<pv2b>why didnt you just say so?
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08:54<Digitalfox>lol English is not my fisrt language so it's not always easy to speack what i'm thinking
08:54<pv2b>sounds like you could apply a recursive tree-based consolidation algorithm for that
08:55<LA[lord]>digitalfox, earlier you didn't make THAT much mistakes :D
08:55<LA[lord]>a few days ago
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08:55<pv2b>in other words, store everything into a binary tree, which on every node stores blocked/not blocked/mixed
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08:55*LA[lord] has GRFMaker finally
08:56<pv2b>then you iterate over the tree with a depth-first search and if a mixed node has two nodes of hte same status, convert that node itself into the same status
08:56<pv2b>then print the output
08:56<pv2b>the end :-)
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08:57<pv2b>now you probably fdon't even need to store it in an actual tree, you just need a quick way to look up whether a certain line exists in the sample, you could easilly use python and a dictioanry for that
08:57<pv2b>sorting by network size
08:57<pv2b>then apply the algo
08:58<Digitalfox>Will try something like that :)
08:58<pv2b>so basically:
08:59<pv2b>for all network address lengths 32->0:
08:59<pv2b> for all networks of that length:
08:59<pv2b> if the network's immediate binary neighbour also exists in the list:
08:59<pv2b> remove both networks and add the consolidated network
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09:00<pv2b>then just run an algo to eliminate any duplicates you might get
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09:00<pv2b>or any redundant lines
09:01<pv2b>though that will not be neccessary if there are no redundant lines or duplicates in the input to start with
09:01<Digitalfox>ok thanks :)
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09:07<Forked>urgh. utf-8 mandatory in this channel? using irssi, how the I set utf-8 on one channel/network and still use ISO-8859-1 on another :\
09:08<LA[lord]>food tight
09:08<Noldo>Forked: which version?
09:08<Forked>0.8.11 .. but I guess I can upgrade :)
09:09<Noldo> /recode add #channel CharacterSet
09:09<Forked>Irssi: Added #openttd/UTF-8 to conversion database
09:09<Forked>I knew there was a command I had forgotten, cheers
09:13<pv2b>utf-8 is nice.
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09:29<peter____>iso-8859-1 is mandatory on some channels? urgh.
09:31<Forked>nah, but for us with these special norwegian chars and having old iso-8859-1 friends .. we try to avoid puking too much on their screen
09:31<ln->more like windows-1252
09:32<Forked>æøå ..
09:32<murray>utf-8 backwardscompatible my ass
09:36<Maedhros>with 7-bit ascii, yes. it never claimed to be backwards compatible with anything else, as far as i know
09:36<Maedhros>on a different note, i do with i could work out how to display it properly with a combination of freebsd, rxvt-unicode, screen and irssi
09:37<Maedhros>hmm, i seem to have developed a lisp. s/with/wish/
09:37<keyweed>((((((lisp)))))) ?
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10:11<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r11812 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: introduce TrainExitDir() to simplify some functions
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10:16<waldo_>openttd 0.6b keeps telling me it cant open my .. its the same as the one i used for 0.5.3 .. also downloaded a new copy of the game and tried with those ... i put them in /data and chmodded them 777
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10:17<waldo_>still same error msg
10:18<waldo_>are the names case sensitive on a linux system (*.grf and if so should they be in caps or not
10:19<Maedhros>yes, they are case-sensitive. is always lower case. the windows (trg?r.grf) files are lower case, and the DOS (TRG?.GRF) are upper case
10:25<waldo_>tried both versions i have in both caps and no casp :S
10:25<waldo_>keeps saying the same
10:28<pv2b>waldo_: so wait, where exactly do you keep the files?
10:28<pv2b>full path please
10:30<waldo_> /home/waldo/ ... in front of that to be more precise
10:30<Maedhros>it should now be in either ~/Desktop/openttd-0.6.0-beta2/bin/data, or ~/.openttd/data
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10:33<waldo_>ok, now it doesn't say there is a problem with the files anymore .. it just goes back to terminal :S
10:33<waldo_>any way of turning verbose mode on ?
10:33<Forked>try starting it from a terminal
10:35<waldo_>doing that ... just goes back to terminal ... just deleted the.cfg files in the /.openttd dir ... same problem
10:35<Maedhros>did you compile openttd yourself?
10:35<Maedhros>chances are you don't have the sdl development headers and so you've ended up with a dedicated server
10:35<waldo_>i do have the sdl dev libs
10:35<waldo_>... will dubblecheck
10:36<waldo_>altough i build the previous version myself too .. on this pc
10:37<Maedhros>well, try bin/openttd -d driver=9, and see what it says
10:37-!-Osai is now known as Osai^zZz
10:40<waldo_>just installed another sdl package and so some dev packages with short names fly by ... so maybe i was missing some pkgs .. will rebuild .. gimme a minute
10:41<Maedhros>you need the sdl headers, as well as the libs (they come in seperate packages)
10:42<waldo_>ok ... it worx ... :D
10:42<waldo_>stuuuupid me :S
10:43*dihedral nods
10:45<LA[lord]>dihedral, you still interested in that plane?
10:46<dihedral>you got one working?
10:46<LA[lord]>no, bu I asked if you're interested
10:47<dihedral>i'll give you a more definate answer this evening, if that is ok with you
10:47<LA[lord]>ok :)
10:47<LA[lord]>this evening means it's 17:46 here :D
10:47<dihedral>that way i get a chance to talk to the others ^^
10:47<dihedral>it's one hour earlier here
10:47<dihedral>and i am back home at 1900
10:48<dihedral>then a chat with the others
10:48<LA[lord]>it makes 20:00 here
10:48<LA[lord]>and because it
10:48<dihedral>_then_ a chat with the others
10:48<LA[lord]>is Friday I'll be up for long
10:48<dihedral>me too ^^
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11:03<LA[lord]>Is it possible to make a grf that changes a plane, but it has more sprites then the original plane... e-g if I wan't animation
11:04<+glx>yes, but that needs action 0, 1, 2 and 3
11:04<+glx>and probably 4 to
11:05<LA[lord]>I know.. It should be a new plane then.. And four is just for naming... That's not a big problem..
11:05<+glx>because you need to redefine it completely
11:06<LA[lord]>Action1 is logical that it needs to be :D, Action 2 and three.... I have to learn the specs for them..
11:07<UnderBuilder>why I can't use the livery carriage as static
11:07<UnderBuilder>it tells me that it is unsafe for static use
11:08<+glx>livery carriage?
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11:10<Maedhros>yes, but what tells you what is unsafe for static use?
11:10<+glx>because they are not simple replacement
11:11<+glx>they use at least action 2
11:11<UnderBuilder>but that grf doesn't change specs
11:12<+glx>it does
11:12-!-DaleStan_ is now known as DaleStan
11:12<UnderBuilder>no, only graphics
11:13<LA[lord]>glx: The animation is not done by Action2.. is it? I read the specs that action two defines graphics ID and there are num_loadtypes, num_loadingtypes and loadtypes... this is not what I was looking for.. Maybe a variational action2?
11:14<+glx>LA[lord]: yes, you want to select what to draw depending of plane state in game
11:15<Maedhros>you would decide which sprites to show based on the animation counter, which you would test with a variational action 2
11:15<+glx>UnderBuilder: for you it's only graphics, but internally it's a lot more
11:15<Maedhros>glx: if that grf is designed to replace the original graphics, it's not going to be a newgrf, is it?
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11:16<+glx>it's the livery override extension
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11:16<Maedhros>oh, ok
11:16<LA[lord]>the ultimate goal would be that when it flies, then there is a flag animating behind it.. so I found the place where it takes account for height ;)
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11:38<LA[lord]>I found the things I needed, but now I lack knowledge what to do with them :(
11:39<UnderBuilder>then if I can't use it as static, if I create a server, how the people will connect without the grf?
11:41<Maedhros>they won't. same as any other newgrf...
11:43<UnderBuilder>but it changes only graphics
11:48<@Belugas>that is your perception, UnderBuilder
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11:48<@Belugas>[11:20] <+glx> UnderBuilder: for you it's only graphics, but internally it's a lot more
11:48<@Belugas>and glx told you so already
11:48<UnderBuilder>but you only see the graphics change
11:49<hylje>the internal part is what matters
11:50*Belugas nods at hylje
11:55<bumblebee>i probably have a very stupid question, im new to this game so please be nice :P on the winter mod there is a lot of paper mills that need wood, but there is no woods were i can transport it from, what is it i am missing?? i am sure there is a really obvious answer but i can`t see it :P
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11:55<hylje>bumblebee: forests need highland
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11:56<bumblebee>what you mean?
12:00<bumblebee>hylje ??
12:02<Jortuny>is the openttd server browser down?
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12:05<@Belugas>it looks as if the main is down, yes
12:05<Maedhros>bumblebee: as far as i remember, forests can only be built above the snow-line
12:05<Jortuny>oh I didn't even think to check there :D
12:05<Maedhros>bumblebee: so if you don't have any hills that are high enough, you won't get any forests
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12:05<Jortuny>was just wondering if my network config was acting up or if it was a known problem
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12:06<bumblebee>aha, i play with a flat map , maybe thats why
12:06<bumblebee>ty Maedhros
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12:13<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r11813 /trunk/src/ (blitter/32bpp_anim.cpp gfx.cpp gfx_func.h screenshot.cpp): -Fix [FS#1602]: Switch _screen to the output buffer and disable usage of 32bpp-anim animation buffer during giant screenshots.
12:15<@Belugas_Gone>/msg nickserv recover Belugas quentin
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12:25<dihedral>peter1138: got your nick back? ^^
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12:27<@peter__>no ;)
12:27<@peter__>just my ops :D
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12:33<Draakon>any Internet experts here?
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12:36<@peter__>what's an Internet expert?
12:36<Forked>someone who knows all RFCs by heart?
12:36<Forked>hi btw..
12:36<Forked><-new guy
12:37<Prof_Frink>Oh no. We're Forked.
12:37<Draakon>well i think its wrong place to tell my problem
12:37<Draakon>so NVM
12:38<Forked>I didn't mean to be rude.. was just a suggestion :\
12:38<Draakon>it wasnt you
12:39<Sacro>it was me :(
12:39<Lego-->:) i think noone would introduce himself as an expert, since any expert knows that there are miriads of problems he might not know the exact solution to, and by pretending to be an expert before hearing the actual problem it is highly probable he will get embarassed afterwards, if he cant solve it; and anyone who isnt an expert anyway wont pretend to be one either, since he will get embarassed either way
12:39<Draakon>its wrong place to for me to tell my problem
12:41<@Belugas>Draakon, best place for finding infos is actually google, wiki, yahoo whatever... in other words, searching
12:41<Draakon>i know
12:41<@Belugas>not bitching, just pointing out an issue
12:41<Draakon>this place was just a click away :D
12:41<Sacro>*Belugas = issue
12:42<Sacro>Belugas: you be pointing :p
12:44<hylje>what typeless language has low-level pointers using unary *?
12:45<Forked>now I'm curious as to what the problem is/was :\
12:46<Draakon>i cant update trunk with SVN(aka in my computer)
12:46<Draakon>says that this or that one exists already
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12:49<@Belugas>it means that the patch you try to apply contains the creation of a file, and for some reasons, the given file is already on your folder(s)
12:50<Draakon>i dont try to apply a patch
12:50<+glx>well it's more that a new file is svn already exists on your computer (probably because you applied a patch that is now in svn)
12:50<@Belugas>same as updating...
12:50<Draakon>i am trying to update clean source code
12:50<@Belugas>a file of same name exists on your folder
12:51<@Belugas>svn update tries to create it
12:51<@Belugas>it fails
12:51<@Belugas>so, check the name fo the file,
12:51<+glx>source code may be clean, but the dir is not
12:52<Draakon>how can i do updates with SVN then?
12:52<+glx>as svn revert doesn't remove files created by patches
12:52<+glx>remove the file and retry
12:52<Draakon>that means src folder too
12:52<@Belugas>wherever it is required
12:52<Draakon>as it failed on that part too
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12:53<+glx>oh you are using svn up on a source tree from zip?
12:53<+glx>ie you never used svn co
12:53<UnderBuilder>typo in spanish translation: it says 'Vagon de blindado' when it should say 'Vagon blindado'
12:53<Draakon>glx: your right :P
12:54<UnderBuilder>and 'Furgon de Correos' sould be 'Furgon de Correo'
12:54<+glx>better svn co in another place :)
12:54<Draakon>glx: did already
12:57*Draakon compiles now :)
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13:06<Sacro>Draakon: you're
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13:08<Draakon>i see a problem with No Industry Closing patch and ECS Vectors
13:08<@Belugas>Draakon, it's english prof Sacro mentionning that you said "glx: your right :P" while it should have been "glx: you're right :P"
13:08<@Belugas>no kidding :P
13:08<hylje>the more the best
13:08<Draakon>More precisely Iron Ore Mines
13:08<Draakon>Every Iron ore mine has a fixed ore body randomly predetermined during the construction phase at between 100Kt and 600Kt
13:09<Draakon>what happens if that 100Kt has been transported and...
13:09<Draakon> industry closing patch is on?
13:09<Draakon>should that Iron Ore Mine has 100Kt ore body?
13:10<hylje>i believe that functionality works over patch settings
13:10<hylje>being a different mechanic
13:10<Draakon>so that iron ore mine will not close but will stop production?
13:10<@Belugas>and No Industry Closing is just not caring about anything but the author's immediate needs
13:11<UnderBuilder>idea for the multi-climate map: you can select the climates separately, eg temperate only, temperate + snow, temperate + desert, temperate + toyland, or even temperate + snow + desert + toyland :D
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13:12<UnderBuilder>yes... lol
13:12<Draakon>Multi-Climate should not have toylan
13:12<Draakon>brb food
13:13<UnderBuilder>maybe a not so agressive toyland, removing all the annonying items
13:13<@Belugas>[13:15] <Draakon> so that iron ore mine will not close but will stop production? <-- the guy simply boost at maximum productions. He;s using brute force to keep insutries alive.
13:13<@Belugas>that will and does break grfs
13:15<@Belugas>the guy simply "boosts", "... to keep industries..."
13:16<hylje>i read that more than one a time
13:16<hylje>did you by chance change your thoughts mid-sentence?
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13:16<pavel1269-2>why doesn't anyone just disallow to industies go under their "minimal" production? :)
13:17-!-pavel1269-2 is now known as pavel1269
13:18<LA[lord]>Where could I find (and Pavel don't say that *I* can't :P )the info about ttd-trains and their real life models..
13:18<LA[lord]>wiki is crap at this
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13:18<LA[lord]>all entries in wiki say "Real-life Equivalent
13:18<LA[lord]>The MJS250 resembles the American EMD SW600 switching engine. The EMD model was designed in 1954 however. "
13:19<Mark20>hello, does somebody know if it is possible to install openttd with apt-get on ubuntu?
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13:21<LA[lord]>ok, pavel1269, you are allowed to say that I can't but then point me to the place where you can :D
13:21<LA[lord]>wut happinid?
13:21-!-dih [] has joined #openttd
13:21<Draakon_>i cant eat in peace and internet plays me some jokes
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13:22<LA[lord]>so you have to laugh and are distracted from eating?
13:22<Draakon_>i eat my dinner
13:22-!-Draakon [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:22<Draakon_>but when i got here, i got disconnected
13:22-!-Draakon_ is now known as Draakon
13:23<dih>howabout not eating infornt of your computer if you have problems with it ^^
13:23<Draakon>i am not eating infront of my computer
13:23<LA[lord]>but you are eating... you are replying...
13:23<LA[lord]>how come?
13:24<Draakon>i sayed i have finished my dinner!
13:24<dih>odd world ^^
13:25<LA[lord]>nope.. only dih and Draakon are odd.. we down here are perfectly fine :D
13:25<Draakon>your odd too
13:25<LA[lord]>who is my odd and what's he in too?
13:26<Draakon>you don't read proppely
13:26<LA[lord]>you don't write properly
13:26<LA[lord]>it should've been 'you're odd too'
13:26<Draakon>so what?
13:27<Draakon>do you have to make a big number out of it?
13:27<dih>you 2 - get yourselves a room
13:27<LA[lord]>no..I mean, yes.. but then certainly not..
13:28<LA[lord]>dih it isn't very difficult we both live in Estonia :D
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13:28<LA[lord]>and I'm just bored a little bit..
13:28<LA[lord]>so no offence Draakon
13:28<Draakon>btw do you guys know there are 3 types of english? they are: American, Australian and england english.
13:28<dih>move to #dihedrals.bitches
13:29<dih>british english
13:29<pavel1269><LA[lord]> ok, pavel1269, you are allowed to say that I can't but then point me to the place where you can :D <--- you can't
13:29<Draakon>and in one of those types your is written properly
13:29<LA[lord]>And Scots have their own dialect
13:30<dih>in all 3 your is your and you're is you are
13:30<Draakon>if so then it belongs as subgroup in British English, LA
13:30<LA[lord]>Your means 'sinu' like in sentece 'Sinu tee jahtub ära'
13:31<Draakon>why why talk about this in here?
13:31<LA[lord]>not 'sina oled tee jahtub ära' :D
13:31<LA[lord]>I said I'm bored
13:31<dih>well then texan is 'subgroup' of american english, and i dont think they'll like that ^^
13:31-!-peter__ [~petern@] has joined #openttd
13:31<Draakon>we talk about OpenTTD here so lets talk about it
13:31<dih>hey peter__
13:32<Sacro>dih: no, proper english
13:32<dih>no to what?
13:32<peter__>Oh, you require us to use proper English, do you?
13:32<Sacro>not british english
13:32<Sacro>tis just English
13:32<Draakon>stop talking about English, talk about OpenTTD
13:32<Sacro>anything else is a bastardisation
13:32<dih>Sacro: i said British english, because that is slightly more correct than england english ^^
13:33<LA[lord]>Draakon, why didn't you join #dihedrals.bitches ?
13:33<Draakon>because i dont want to
13:33<LA[lord]>I did and I'm alone there now
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13:33<dih>i'll send you my bot
13:34<dih>is JJ there?
13:34<LA[lord]>Sacro was once too...
13:35<dih>i did not know sacro was my bitch ^^
13:35<Sacro>i can be whatever you want me to be
13:35<Draakon>well i am not your bitch either
13:36<dih>Sacro: no you cannot
13:36<LA[lord]> <LA[lord]> @eightball are you Dihedral's bitch?
13:36<Sacro>oh :(
13:36<LA[lord]> <JJ> No chance.
13:36<dih>dihedral is written with a lowercase d
13:37<dih>D is just sheer ugly
13:37<Draakon>@eightball is LA[lord] dihedral's bitch?
13:37<LA[lord]> <LA[lord]> @eightball am I dihedral's bitch?
13:37-!-Wolf01 [] has joined #openttd
13:37<LA[lord]> <JJ> No chance.
13:37<dih>LA, no need to post it all in here
13:37<dih>just invite Draakon there ^^
13:37<dih>hey Wolf01
13:37<Draakon>i wont join
13:37<LA[lord]> <LA[lord]> @eightball is Draakon dihedral's bitch?
13:37<LA[lord]> <JJ> NO!
13:38*dih slaps LA
13:38<Draakon>that is the reason
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13:38<LA[lord]>That bot is wise
13:39<LA[lord]>I asked if he be dih's bot and he said I know the answer beter than him
13:39*dih wonders if he should publish the log of that channel ^^
13:39<Draakon>dih programmed him to say that when asked that question :P
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13:40<Draakon>dih: remember if you do you may get a invitation to court :P
13:40<LA[lord]>gaah.. don't do dih.. I have some very.. personal materialthere
13:41<dih>that would exactly be my reason...
13:41<LA[lord]>..why he wonders but not does..
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13:42<LA[lord]>dih you have the logs?
13:42<dih>in a database ^^
13:42<LA[lord]>can you check them?
13:42<dih>if i wanted to - yes
13:43<pavel1269>LA[lord]: try this patch :P
13:43<LA[lord]>could you check them.. I don't want to post again..
13:43<LA[lord]>pavel, I can't compile atm
13:43<pavel1269>your bad :D
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13:43<Draakon>pavel: what that patch does?
13:43<LA[lord]>no closing industry I guess
13:44<pavel1269>i didn't tested it, but i am sure, no industry will close down
13:44<pavel1269>i hope no -production or something like that apear :)
13:44<Draakon>there is a patch for it allready
13:44<pavel1269>not good
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13:45<Digitalfox>Thank you peter :)
13:45<pavel1269>what does that patch do?
13:46<peter__>Nothing, er, major...
13:46<Digitalfox>Multiple loading of vehicles set
13:46<peter__>It's pretty rubbish, isn't it Digitalfox?
13:46<Digitalfox>why do people need it anyway
13:46<LA[lord]>hylje: I know of it :) Already read the news.. I bet that would've been some of you if here would be any geniuses but me...
13:47<Digitalfox>i don't understand why you lose time with it peter
13:47<@Belugas>pavel1269, yours is not good enough either
13:47<LA[lord]>UKRS and Db set together...
13:47-!-marra [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
13:47<@Belugas>lol @ Digitalfox :D
13:47<@Belugas>he's not waisting time at all ;)
13:47-!-stillunknown [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
13:48<Digitalfox>Belugas: I guess you didn't feel my humor ;)
13:48-!-Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:48<Digitalfox>I was using sarcasm
13:48<Draakon>that patch has the ability to run UKRS and DBset togheter?
13:48<Digitalfox>It's a great patch and feels very stable
13:48<@Belugas>i just have this stuff in my mind "the most usefull patch ever"
13:49<Draakon>does that patch do that?
13:49<Digitalfox>It comes from peter, so its reliable has everyone should know
13:49<Digitalfox>yes it does
13:49<LA[lord]>I'm dih's bit
13:49<LA[lord]>no longer
13:49*Draakon gets the patch and starts compiling
13:49<Draakon>btw, for what revision that patch is?
13:49<Digitalfox>lol and madness begins..
13:50<@Belugas>it's written in the patch itself Draakon
13:50<Draakon>i see now
13:50<@Belugas>and it wold surprises me if it was not head
13:50<Draakon>Digitalfox: how come?
13:51<Digitalfox>i can't acess it.. Maybe my ISP is enjoy taking my fun :(
13:51<Draakon>somebody make a thread in the forums
13:51<Draakon>or i could make it
13:51<LA[lord]>anyway.. I repeat my question in hope that you guys missed it and not ignored :D 'Where could I find the info about ttd-trains and their real life models.. Wiki isn't good'
13:52<Draakon>why wiki isn't good?
13:52<LA[lord]>coz all trains have this:
13:52<LA[lord]>Real-life Equivalent
13:52<LA[lord]>The MJS250 resembles the American EMD SW600 switching engine. The EMD model was designed in 1954 however.
13:52<LA[lord]>so no info there
13:53<Draakon>because there are no trains that are named after like that
13:53<Draakon>and there are no same looking trains
13:53<LA[lord]>TGV is T.I.M
13:53<Draakon>out here in the world
13:53<LA[lord]>AsiaStar is EuroStar
13:53-!-Purno [] has joined #openttd
13:53<LA[lord]>or vice versa the last one
13:54<CIA-1>OpenTTD: orudge * r11814 /trunk/src/os2.cpp: -Fix: Get OpenTTD compiling again on OS/2
13:54<LA[lord]>and I know there is a grf with right names floating around somewhere but I haven't found it yet
13:54<Draakon>peter__: how do i use that patch? apply it to trunk, compile and apply UKRS and DBset in NewGRF window?
13:54<Sacro>orudge: zomg commit
13:54<Digitalfox>By the way LA[lord] What are you thinking on doing about the names, Chris Sawyer renamed the TGV in TT to T.I.M in TTD to protect him from trademarks, but now with open couln't the real names be used?
13:54<@orudge>Sacro: quite
13:55<Digitalfox>Draakon: yes
13:55<@orudge>Sacro: http:// if you're suitably bored
13:55<Digitalfox>just that
13:55<@orudge>just the one http:// :P
13:55<LA[lord]>Digitalfox: I dunno...
13:55<Draakon>Sacro: orudge is "The SiffMaster"
13:55<peter__>Draakon, there's a patch setting to enable, "patch dynamic_engines 1" from the console before starting a game
13:55<Draakon>peter: in menu?
13:55<Sacro>orudge: does it come with the musics :p
13:55<@orudge>Sacro: no, not at present
13:55<@orudge>but you could haxxor it to play wav files
13:55<peter__>(tilde to bring up the console)
13:55<Digitalfox>oh peter you took all the fun of saying it didn't work
13:55<@orudge>the new music support will take a bit longer
13:55<@orudge>mainly due to GUI things
13:55<peter__>Oh poo :(
13:56<Draakon>how do i get into console? as button next to 1 does not work?
13:56<pavel1269>19:47 <Belugas> pavel1269, yours is not good enough either <-- i know, but i dont break newgrfs :D
13:56<Digitalfox>But maybe he doesn't know how to call the console
13:56<Digitalfox>So maybe i can teach him where o_O
13:57<LA[lord]>is it legal to use trademarks in trains' names? As df suggested? Anyone knows?
13:57<Sacro>LA[lord]: heh, probably noy
13:57<Sacro>depends on le country
13:57<Draakon>ah it works
13:57<Draakon>i just have to hold that button
13:58<+glx>Draakon: you may need to press it twice (depends on keyboard layout)
13:58<Draakon>dont care, main thing that patch works
13:58<peter__>pavel1269 has a patch?
13:58<Digitalfox>Draakon: You can also just enable it in openttd.cfg
13:59<pavel1269>peter__: if you mean any, then yes :(
13:59<Draakon>Digitalfox: what line in cfg?
14:00<Digitalfox>Draakon: dynamic_engines = true
14:00<Draakon>but does this patch work only with UKRS and DBset only?
14:00<Digitalfox>no every vehicles set work
14:00<Digitalfox>planeset with av8 etc..
14:01<Draakon>but is it possible to use UKRS, DBset and US Train set tohgeter?
14:01<Draakon>good work then guys
14:02<Digitalfox>oh dude just try and if it doesn't work report it
14:02<peter__>that enables the original engines
14:02<peter__>as well
14:02<Draakon>use with NewGRF trains?
14:03*Draakon thinks that patch should be in trunk then
14:03<LA[lord]>dih I started drawing that plane again... how big do you want it to be... And what capacity and speed.. Like something near-abotu what I could base the plane..
14:03<Digitalfox>Well maybe because its in testing phase o_O
14:03<dih>good job that Draakons thought on what should be in patch, has much influence ^^
14:03<dih> /
14:04<Draakon>sry, i don't understand what did you say. My english is not good yet :(
14:04<pavel1269>i dont understand it either :)
14:04<dih>* Draakon thinks that patch should be in trunk then
14:04<dih>i was refering to that
14:05<Draakon>it indeed should be in trunk :D 100%
14:05<Digitalfox>one thing that is still in my head is what ever happen to the guy who said would post this patch
14:05<Draakon>MingW compiles currently, cant test patch yet xD
14:06*peter__ has to go shopping
14:06<peter__>good job the supermarket is close
14:06<dih>not our fault
14:07<Draakon>look at the time dude
14:07<peter__>close, not closed
14:07<dih>yes - just realized ^^
14:07*keyweed looks at the time
14:07<Digitalfox>Let's help peter by finding online shops that will deliver at his house in 1 hour :)
14:07<keyweed>shop's here still open for another hour.
14:08<keyweed>yes. i know. sorry.
14:08<Draakon>Google tour bus is our friend
14:08<@Belugas>and another 5 hours in here ^_^
14:09<Digitalfox>Here in Portugal supermarkets close at 9PM
14:09<keyweed>here in the netherlands too.
14:09<@Belugas>same here
14:09<Digitalfox>The UE made this happen.. They closed at 11PM, but here comes the comission of this and that and all should start closing at 9PM :(
14:09<Sacro>here they are 24 hour
14:10<Sacro>local stores close at 11 or 00
14:10<keyweed>i want a 24 hour economy to. :(
14:11<dih>and then ask for a job ^^
14:11<@Belugas>keyweed,you have one in otttd ^_^
14:11<dih>transport tycoon tremendous deluxe ?
14:12<keyweed>true. 24 train and bus service. it's utopia.
14:12<Digitalfox>Besides free traveling between country's on the EURO zone i don't know what good does it do for Portugal.. 70% of our laws are already modified to comply to rules by the EU
14:12<Draakon>still compiles :(
14:12<keyweed>i travel alot. i don't object to all the EU has done.
14:12<Digitalfox>It seems we are always complying to new EU law's every day..
14:13<Digitalfox>When most of that laws didn't any portuguese to vote at least
14:14<keyweed>i currently have more problems with our dutch government then with the EU. sorry.
14:14<keyweed>it appears we're getting a ban a month. this month they're trying to ban fireworks on new years eve.
14:15<Draakon>weee compiling done
14:15<LA[lord]>DigitalFox: Is Portugal part of Schengen?
14:15<Draakon>lets test the new patch
14:15<LA[lord]>so you could travel to Estonia w/o passport control?
14:16<Draakon>we are in Senchein
14:16<Draakon>have you read the news?
14:16<LA[lord]>We are I know!!
14:16<LA[lord]>And I know the prtugese are
14:17<LA[lord]>so nothing like free travel in Euro zone... it's in Schengen zone
14:17<Draakon>all countries that belong to EU Union belong to Senchein
14:17<LA[lord]>not yet
14:17<Draakon>should be
14:17<Draakon>but theres a problem with Schengen still
14:17<LA[lord]>some asked for delaying
14:18<Draakon>after a certain time or something you need to show a passport still
14:18<Draakon>at last so i understand from news
14:18<valhalla1w>you need to be able to identify yourself in other countries
14:18<valhalla1w>there are just no border checks
14:19<Sacro>Draakon: not all
14:19<keyweed>in the netherlands you are required to be able to identify yourself whenever asked.
14:19<Draakon>Patch works
14:19*Sacro isn't in a Schengen country
14:19<keyweed>they can ask on the border if they want to. they usually don't though.
14:19<Draakon>that means that Netherlands isnt in Schengen
14:20<LA[lord]>-where is scaro-
14:20<valhalla1w>Draakon: erm, not exactly
14:20-!-valhalla1w is now known as valhallasw
14:20<Eddi|zuHause3><keyweed> in the netherlands you are required to be able to identify yourself whenever asked. <- that is not part of the schengen treaty
14:20<valhallasw>the schengen treaty does not define wether you need to be able to identify yourself
14:21<Sacro>LA[lord]: i'm here
14:21<Eddi|zuHause3>you need some kind of personal identification, schengen just says it doesn't need to be a passport
14:21<Eddi|zuHause3>and you don't need a travelling visum
14:21<keyweed>Eddi|zuHause3: no. just dutch law.
14:21<Eddi|zuHause3>keyweed: that is probably similar in all EU states
14:21<valhallasw>Eddi|zuHause3: does schengen explicitly say it doesn't need to be a passport?
14:22<keyweed>if i fail to produce a valid id when the police asks i get a fine.
14:22<Draakon>Digitalfox: how did you were able to make so that DBSet Pax trains cant carry UKRS grain hoopers?
14:22<Draakon>valhallasw: you still need it but wont be asked for it
14:22<LA[lord]>we in case can do it with ID'card for example
14:22<keyweed>but since the chance some thug steels my id then the police asking for it, i usually don't cary it.
14:22<LA[lord]>no need to passports
14:22<Digitalfox>I don' what Schengen is
14:22<Digitalfox>LA[lord]: That i haven't test it, too many things to test at just one or 2 days
14:22<keyweed>we have id cards too. but i need a passport and i'm not going to pay for two ids.
14:23<valhallasw>then get your drivers license
14:23<keyweed>i don't have or want one.
14:23<keyweed>public transport gets me to work and wherever i need.
14:23<LA[lord]>keyweed: but we DON'T need passports anymore
14:23<valhallasw>LA[lord]: you do
14:23<keyweed>if i want to go to australia i do.
14:23<Draakon>we do
14:23<valhallasw>you need to be able to identify yourself in a foreign country
14:24<Draakon>we do need passport still in Schengen
14:24<valhallasw>schengen just removes the need for visa
14:24<LA[lord]>Australia yes.. I was refering to inter-euro travel
14:24<Draakon>but one thing i dont undestand
14:24<valhallasw>LA[lord]: if I travel from the Netherlands to Germany, I need to carry either an EU ID card or a passport
14:24<LA[lord]>valhallasw: The eu countries didnt' need visa anyhow
14:25<Draakon>if i for example 12 years old, can i still travel freely in Schengen as adults too?
14:25<keyweed>you can travel freely. there are no border checkpoints anymore.
14:25<LA[lord]>valhallasw: YOU need to carry passport I guess ...
14:25<Draakon>even for children?
14:25<valhallasw>LA[lord]: so do you
14:25<LA[lord]>It's just maybe allowed to minors
14:25<keyweed>but if you mispark your car in amsterdam and you can't produce a valid id, you're fined extra :)
14:26<LA[lord]>valhallasw: we didn't need passports even before Schengen to travel in *most* eu countries.. ID-Card was enough but passport was good too
14:27<valhallasw>LA[lord]: EU ID-card, yes
14:27<valhallasw>but it remains you will need either an EU ID card or a passport to travel to another schengen country
14:27<LA[lord]>I don't call it that way.. besides 95% of Estonians have ID-card
14:28<LA[lord]>.. and I'm among the 5 percent
14:28<@Belugas>now i know what you're blablatting about
14:28-!-[1]Mark [] has joined #openttd
14:29<keyweed>i need to be able to go out of europe, i need a passport thingy, not an european id.
14:29<LA[lord]>keyweed: that's your bad...
14:29-!-KritiK [] has joined #openttd
14:30-!-bumblebee [] has joined #openttd
14:31<peter__>You may now celebrate, for I have returned!
14:31<LA[lord]>and I think we totally forgot that some people aren't in EU (like some *canadians* )so let's remind Draakons suggestion and talk about OpenTransportTycoonTremendousD
14:31*LA[lord] celebrates
14:31-!-TommyGun [] has joined #openttd
14:31<TommyGun>hello ppl
14:31<LA[lord]>Peeter Paan has returned..
14:31<LA[lord]>hello TommyGun
14:31<Draakon>did someone called me?
14:32<Draakon>i was busy applying multiple sets
14:32*Belugas would like to know peter__'s trick to make it so fast.
14:32<@Belugas>ho... i know
14:32<@Belugas>no woman ;)
14:32<peter__>Yes, I went on my own :)
14:32*LA[lord] is laughing at Draakon...And mentioned his name the second time intentionally
14:33*Draakon nukes LA for fun ;D
14:33<peter__>Also the supermarket is 3 minutes walk away...
14:33<@Belugas>" (like some *canadians* )" <--- there are in here???
14:33<TommyGun>I have a question, maybe that someone knows more 'bout it. Well i run a server myself (quad machine, 4 p3 xeon processors) but openttd only uses 1 cpu and that one is around 90% load all the time which occurs lag. any tips for that?
14:33<@Belugas>close to job, close to supermarket.. nice place you've got :)
14:33<peter__>Yes, openttd only ever uses 1 CPU
14:33<LA[lord]>Belugas: Not that I know about...
14:34<TommyGun>hm cause i run a quiet big map with a lot of trains
14:34-!-stillunknown [] has joined #openttd
14:34<LA[lord]>2048 is always a bad chice for mp
14:34<TommyGun>yeh i thought so
14:34<TommyGun>didnt had any probs with 1024
14:34<peter__>And there are no plans to make it multi-threaded.
14:34-!-Mark [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:34-!-[1]Mark is now known as Mark
14:34<TommyGun>thats a shame peter
14:35<@Belugas>not a shame at all
14:35<TommyGun>why not
14:35<@Belugas>it's not profitable enough
14:35*Draakon plays with all train, truck&bus, plane and ship sets now :)
14:35<TommyGun>everyone has a core 2 duo nowadays or whatsoever
14:36<peter__>Not everyone, heh
14:36<@Belugas>it has been discussed many many many times
14:36<TommyGun>maybe that says enough Belugas
14:36<valhallasw>it's fairly hard to implement for the gain it will yield
14:36<@Belugas>plus, the synchornizxation of data would be so nightmarish that all benefits woukld be lost
14:36<TommyGun>hm depends on how its done
14:36<peter__>There's no objection to multi-threading per s,
14:36<Draakon>i dont have core 2 duo
14:37<valhallasw>the problem is keeping multiple clients in sync when multi-threading
14:37<peter__>but on the technical side it just wouldn't work.
14:37<@Belugas>TommyGun, if it has to be done, it wold require nothing less than a total rewrite of the applicaiton
14:37<TommyGun>i dont see the prob tbh
14:37<@Belugas>wel... dig the sources :)
14:37<valhallasw>the problem of doing a full rewrite?
14:37<@Belugas>and make your best shit ^^
14:38<Eddi|zuHause3><Digitalfox> I don' what Schengen is <- Schengen is a village in Luxemburg, near the river Mosel, on a boat on the river, the first Schengen treaty was signed by 5 countries (i assume germany, france and the benelux states), to ease border traffic, and in the long term remove inner border controls and instead increase controls at the outer borders
14:38<peter__>It's not like there's a compiler flag to enable multi-threading... :(
14:38<valhallasw>multi-threading is an headache
14:38-!-Wolf01 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:38<TommyGun>but i think its worth it in the end
14:38<pavel1269>question ... you have just removed SET_EXPENSES_TYPE? no replace with something?
14:39<Eddi|zuHause3>meanwhile, the treaty covers 24 countries
14:39<valhallasw>well, then code it.
14:39<valhallasw>simple building a multi-threaded http library in python cost me two days
14:39<TommyGun>me pavel1269?
14:39<valhallasw>(that is: extending httplib2 to have threading and shared connections)
14:39<pavel1269>no, general question :)
14:39<valhallasw>it's only 522 lines
14:40<Draakon>Peter or Digitalfox here?
14:40<@Belugas>TommyGun, no one disputes it. It's just not worth the effort. A total rewrite is not an understatemet, and as been said, it willnot benefits everyone
14:40<valhallasw>and those two days were not spent coding but drawing on a piece of paper to find out how to do proper locking
14:40<TommyGun>well ok ur the bosses ;)
14:41<valhallasw>it has nothing to do with who is the 'boss' or not, but rather that no-one who has the knowledge to do it thinks it's worth doing
14:41<TommyGun>i get ya
14:42<peter__>Draakon, at your service
14:42<blathijs>valhallasw: So, those who can do things are the boss :-)
14:42<valhallasw>blathijs: :D
14:42<Digitalfox>Draakon: peter is one who wrote the patch i'm just a user of it like you..
14:43<Draakon>peter: nvm i just i thought i found a bug with your patch but it was a bug in my Load order
14:43<blathijs>valhallasw: Open Source projects are usually a Technocracy :-)
14:43<Draakon>but it does work
14:43<valhallasw>it doesn't work for everything
14:43<Digitalfox>Draakon: Pretty cool isn't it?
14:43-!-Wolf01 [] has joined #openttd
14:43<Digitalfox>thnaks for the explanation Eddi|zuHause3 :)
14:43<LA[lord]>gaah.. you guys are boring.. :D I'll better do something else.. Bye
14:43<valhallasw>I mean, open source gui's are just... not suited for 'normal people' ;)
14:44<Draakon>Digitalfox: yup except conflicting sets
14:44<valhallasw>er, s/gui/windowmanager
14:44<Digitalfox>Eddi|zuHause3: I do remember hearing something about that on TV
14:44-!-LA[lord] [] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.79 [Firefox]]
14:44<Digitalfox>Draakon: Like what?
14:44<Sacro>there, evdev mouse
14:44<Draakon>Digitalfox: Long Vehicles with Hovkus Bus and Serbian set
14:44<Sacro>better :)
14:45<Draakon>and DBSet with ECS Vehicles Alpah 1
14:45<Sacro>ooh funn
14:45<Digitalfox>Draakon: Didn't test that part, but don't they all show up?
14:45<Eddi|zuHause3>Digitalfox: signing the schengen treaty is a requirement to join the EU meanwhile, only UK and Ireland have signed a limited subset of the treaty
14:45<Draakon>Digitalfox: those mentioned sets conflict so they all are disabled
14:45<Draakon>but it works fine
14:46<peter__>Ah, nothing much to be done about that
14:46<Draakon>peter: i know
14:46<Eddi|zuHause3>also, some non-eu states joined the treaty (iceland, norway) because of previous treaties with their neighbour states, soon switzerland joins the treaty also
14:46<peter__>If sets all used GRM there'd be no problem, but a lot of this stuff was made before that was invented...
14:48<Draakon>peter: but how did you manage to do so that DBset coal hopper wont work with UKRS pax train? like you try to apply a grain hopper to a Pax Train if you only use one set
14:49<peter__>That's probably luck, to be honest
14:49<peter__>The callback that controls that is a bit flawed.
14:49<Draakon>peter: heh nice work anyway
14:49-!-Dominik [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:49<Eddi|zuHause3>Draakon: afaik the DBSet engines check if the cargo of the attached wagons is "passenger"
14:49<Eddi|zuHause3>else they reject the wagons
14:50-!-egladil [~egladil@] has joined #openttd
14:50<peter__>Technically it's the wagon that checks, that's the flaw.
14:51<peter__>Or is it? Hmm...
14:51-!-stillunknown [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
14:52<peter__>Yeah, I'm wrong.
14:52<Eddi|zuHause3>that's not what i read out of the dbset_ecs readme
14:52<peter__>It's the engine that checks...
14:52<peter__>I misread my code ;(
14:52<Eddi|zuHause3>happens ;)
14:52<peter__>The wagon is passed as the vehicle object to check, but it's the engine's varaction chain that's tested.
14:53<peter__>So yes, if the set is sensible and checks with cargo type and the like, it'll work fine.
14:53<peter__>If it tests against specific engine IDs it may or may not work properly.
14:53<peter__>I just need to fix the GRF specified engine list sorting.
14:53<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah, i am not sure how it checks for engines that specifically require "long distance coaches"
14:54<peter__>Property 0x25
14:55<Eddi|zuHause3>btw. if you give each grf a unique "namespace", how do you check that for sets that are designed to override vehicles of a different set (like the dbxl_ecs.grf?)
14:56<peter__>By adding a feature to allow sets to override another set.
14:57-!-stillunknown [] has joined #openttd
14:57<pavel1269>how can i "consistent" line ending style? :/
14:57<peter__># Money!
14:57<Draakon>peter: you should post a thread in the forums about your patch
14:58<hylje>pavel1269: i think one should use UNIX line breaks (e.g. \n)
14:58<Eddi|zuHause3>pavel1269: svn will set the correct line endings on checkout
14:58<pavel1269>i applied patch something was wrong i copied right lines to right place and ... :(
14:58<Eddi|zuHause3>(as long as the property svn:eol-style=native is set)
14:59<Eddi|zuHause3>also, there are programs "dos2unix" and "unix2dos" which convert line endings
15:00<dih>Draakon: i am not quite sure if peter__ has to add his patches to the forums before he can submit them to trunk ^^
15:00<Draakon>oh he can commit it to trunk? nice
15:00<dih>you have never seen the svn log have you?
15:00<dih>never payed attention to the 'author' information there?
15:01<dih>or perhaps messaves from CIA-1
15:01<pavel1269>i got it :P notepad .... then i deleted the "correct" ending and in MSVS added there that ... box :)
15:02<Draakon>dih: guess so
15:05<peter__># us ... ... ... ... and them ... ... ... ... and after all we're only ordinary men
15:06<peter__># me ... and you ... god only knows, it's not what we would choose to do
15:07<Eddi|zuHause3>now you are gettin freaky...
15:08-!-Gonozal_VIII [] has joined #openttd
15:09<Gonozal_VIII>i'm back!!!!
15:09<peter__>That is my line.
15:09<Draakon>using that multiple sets patch, prices have sky rocketed, why?
15:09<Gonozal_VIII>you all missed me, right?
15:10<Gonozal_VIII>basecosts modified
15:10<peter__>Because the prices are still set by the last set that is loaded.
15:10<Gonozal_VIII>4rv does that
15:10<peter__>I might consider making the base prices be per-GRF, some how...
15:10<Gonozal_VIII>for example
15:11<Gonozal_VIII><-- not chinese
15:11<pavel1269>DOS2UNIX etc don't work ... :/
15:11<peter__>Damn it, this laptop
15:11<pavel1269>MSVS can't do that?
15:11<peter__>'s sound card sucks :(
15:11<Draakon>so this means if i have LV loaded last it has higher prices than a train set that has lower prices?
15:11<Gonozal_VIII>only road vehicles
15:12<Draakon>still then, US train set prices have sky rocketed
15:12<Gonozal_VIII>maybe you have a train set that does that too
15:13<Draakon>lemme recheck my findings
15:13<Draakon>i might be wrong
15:13*dih smiles
15:13*Eddi|zuHause3 waits how long Draakon takes to notice that he has to pay a fee for each "hmm" line ;)
15:13<Draakon>no i dont Eddi
15:14<Eddi|zuHause3>yes, you do, peter__ reserved that word years ago
15:14<dih>why do you think people log this channel?
15:14<Draakon>i confirm my findings
15:14<Draakon>1. I have only US train set loaded in non patched game
15:15-!-HerzogDeXtE1 [] has joined #openttd
15:15<Draakon>2. E8 price is about 21k dollars
15:15<dih>none in static grfs?
15:15<Eddi|zuHause3>satic grfs may never change anything like prices
15:15<peter__>I'd be a millionaire!
15:15<Draakon>3. E8 in patched one has about 100k or more price
15:15<Draakon>dih: no
15:15<Draakon>hmmm isnt copyrighted line!
15:16<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm really eddi? if i put 4lv to static it doesn't change the rv basecosts?
15:16<Eddi|zuHause3>Gonozal_VIII: any grf that does that may not be loaded as static
15:16<dih>but if it were?
15:16<Draakon>i have all sets loaded through GRF options window
15:16<Eddi|zuHause3>dih: that is a quantum state
15:16<dih>same date in the game?
15:17<Draakon>:S now another bug
15:18<Draakon>i bought H8 Allegheny and USTrain set boxecars with refitted to sand but they are not like that anymore
15:18<Draakon>as they should
15:19<Draakon>instead cars have UKRS and TTD car designs
15:19-!-TommyGun [] has quit [Quit:]
15:19<Eddi|zuHause3>my networks would look so much more beautiful with PBS :(
15:20<dih>peter__: someone's calling for you ^^
15:21<peter__>Where does sand come from?
15:21<Gonozal_VIII>sand pit^^
15:21<Draakon>that bug only occured with that train only
15:22<Eddi|zuHause3>and my RMB did not magically fix itself over... day :(
15:22<Draakon>now i use a different one and nothing i explain happened
15:22-!-HerzogDeXtEr [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:22<Draakon>well if i found it again, where should i post error report? with screens offcourse
15:23<Draakon>i think i have too many sets loaded :D
15:23<Gonozal_VIII>there's never too many
15:23<peter__>E8 for me is £12k
15:23<peter__>so some other GRF is changing the base price. no problme.
15:24<Draakon>for me it is above 100k
15:24<Draakon>in dollars
15:24<peter__>then some other set is changing the cost
15:24<Draakon>its maybe because i have too many sets loaded?
15:24<Draakon>US train set is last btw
15:25<peter__>some other set has changed the base price
15:26<Draakon>i am reducing sets in my order
15:26<Draakon>hope that helps
15:26<peter__>it's not a bug, it's just the way that bit was designed...
15:26<Gonozal_VIII>afaik the patch should be able to load 256 sets at the same time... and spritelimit in openttd is also huge now
15:27<Draakon>new vehicles list is too big anyway for current load order
15:27<peter__>Gonozal_VIII, only 256?
15:27<peter__>hehe, it does that :)
15:27<Gonozal_VIII>i think i read about 256 slots
15:27<peter__>there are 256 default engines, and a maximum of 65535 engines
15:27<peter__>not all sets define every engine though
15:28<Draakon>aa prices are now normal
15:28<Gonozal_VIII>would be 256 full sets...
15:28<peter__>or 500 train sets, heh
15:28<peter__>or, infact, just one set
15:28<peter__>as with the patch a single set can define 65535 engines...
15:29<Gonozal_VIII>i don't know how that patch works...
15:29<peter__>hmm, there's probably a bug there :D
15:29<Gonozal_VIII>but that's nice
15:29<Draakon>if we have 500 train sets on, each atlast 10 trains a memory eater is made
15:29<pavel1269>500train sets :P
15:29<Gonozal_VIII>memory? no i don't think so
15:29<peter__>someone will want to run it with a 32768x32768 map, no doubt...
15:29<Draakon>not that there are 500 train sets
15:30<peter__>Gonozal_VIII, 65535 engines will use about 170MB just for the basic data
15:30<pavel1269>32K .... 2K is quite far :D
15:30<peter__>i misread
15:30<peter__>that's not a lot
15:30<dih>i dont want to see the computer you need to handle 65k trains (running that is)
15:31<Draakon>i want
15:31<Draakon>so i can steal it
15:31<Gonozal_VIII>you don't have to use every engine
15:31<dih>i dont think you would be able to lift it Draakon
15:31<Gonozal_VIII>or at least not every engine at the same time
15:31<peter__>i think the main advantage to this will not be using multiple sets but will allow grf authors to make extended sets starting earlier and going on later
15:31<Draakon>dih: who sayed it must be heavy?
15:31<peter__>and ships!
15:32<Draakon>it can be the size of a A4 paper
15:32<peter__>i think there are 10 ship slots by default
15:32<dih>doubt it Draakon
15:32<Gonozal_VIII>huge number of different vehicles + very high daylength factor = teh fun
15:32<Draakon>Aliens have that kind of technology perhaps
15:32*dih slaps Draakon
15:32<peter__>now you can have 65,000 ships, hehe
15:32<dih>with yapf ^^
15:33<pavel1269>lol :D
15:33*Draakon slaps twice dih
15:33<pavel1269>yapf for ships sux really hard
15:33<Draakon>it is a memory eater for ships
15:33<Gonozal_VIII>not when they can only use canals
15:33<Gonozal_VIII>(with water canals as shipping line markers)
15:34<Draakon>after this patch gets into trunk, i wonder what guys at TTDP do?
15:35<Draakon>what why?
15:35<DaleStan>Which patch? And why wonder?
15:35<pavel1269>what do?
15:36<Gonozal_VIII>where to?
15:36<Draakon>that patch that peter is writting/wrote
15:36<pavel1269>Draakon: they will write similar patch ;)
15:36<Draakon>your sure?
15:36<@Belugas>pavel1269, i doubt that.
15:37<@Belugas>not that they cannot, mind you
15:37<dih>hello Belugas ^^
15:37<@Belugas>hey dih
15:39<@Belugas>and Draakon, there is no race of features between the two programs, by the way.
15:39<@Belugas>not that i'm aware of, anyway
15:39<Draakon>i was asking
15:39<dih>trying to debug what i believe to be an endianness issue
15:39<dih>would someone mind helping?
15:39<@Belugas>Draakon: well.. my opinion? they will keep on doing what they do :)
15:40<dih>issueing company_pw on windows and on mac returns different strings to the server
15:40<@Belugas>dih, i cannot, now.
15:40<dih>_someone_ mind helping ^^
15:40*pavel1269 is mind-helping
15:40<pavel1269>happy now? :P
15:41<dih>i checkt the game seed on the client and server, and the server unique id
15:41<dih>that is all fine
15:41<dih>the string the mac generates and arrives at the server is the same too
15:42<dih>so i am not quite sure what to check next
15:42<pavel1269>hello :)
15:44<pavel1269>i still cant "consist" ending line style :'(
15:45<Draakon>sand pits are no good MM now
15:45<Draakon>Money Maker
15:45<hylje>there needs to be one?
15:46<Gonozal_VIII>sand pits are ok
15:46<Draakon>or else i go bankrupt before i can do something
15:46<Gonozal_VIII>sand doesn't bring much money but they produce a lot
15:46<Draakon>Gonozal: not in newest ECS
15:46<Gonozal_VIII>really? hmm
15:46<Draakon>as they dont produce a lot now too
15:47<Gonozal_VIII>you can still make glass out of it
15:47<Draakon>i know
15:48<Gonozal_VIII>then transport the glass with planes or helicopters... got your money
15:49*dih misses Bjarni
15:49<Draakon>no current airplane avabile for that
15:49-!-Frostregen_ [] has joined #openttd
15:50<Gonozal_VIII>i think av8 has that
15:50<dih>heh - anybody with a core2duo mac?
15:50<dih>intel mac :-)
15:50<Draakon>year is 1921 and only 2 airplanes are avabile
15:50<Draakon>none of them can transport glass
15:50<peter__>hmm, maybe i should download ECS... what's needed? heh
15:51<Draakon>here you can get them
15:51<Draakon>direct link
15:51<Draakon>to downloads list
15:51<peter__>hmm, mix 'n' match them all or what?
15:51<Draakon>just download and follow the GRFID list above of the menu to see the correct order
15:51<Draakon>not needed
15:51<Draakon>at all
15:52<Draakon>but more fun and more better if mixed
15:52<Draakon>and more chains too
15:53<Draakon> for all info about ECS
15:54<peter__>gah, fucking rar
15:54<Eddi|zuHause3>unrar x <file>
15:54<Draakon>you want grfs not rars?
15:55<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause3: unrar e
15:55<Eddi|zuHause3>Sacro: depends...
15:55<peter__>done now, i just dislike rar
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15:55<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause3: i have x as exclude
15:55<Eddi|zuHause3>e ignores directories
15:55<Eddi|zuHause3>x includes directories
15:55<Sacro>silly german
15:56-!-Frostregen_ is now known as Frostregen
15:56<Eddi|zuHause3>Sacro: -x is exclude
15:57<Eddi|zuHause3> e Extract files to current directory
15:57<Eddi|zuHause3> x Extract files with full path
15:57<Draakon>peter: what made you to download ECS? :P
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16:00<peter__><Draakon> i bought H8 Allegheny and USTrain set boxecars with refitted to sand but they are not like that anymore
16:00<peter__>though it works for me
16:00<Draakon>well i had a lot of other sets loaded too
16:01<peter__>probably used the wrong box car then? heh
16:01<Draakon>i bought US set train and a USTrain Set Boxcar
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16:03<Wolf01> lol
16:03<peter__>i have 5 boxcars and 3 box cars
16:05<Gonozal_VIII>boxcars for sand?
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16:06<Draakon>peter: what sets are you using?
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16:07<LA[lord]>any dih's presence noticed?
16:08*dih slaps Draakon
16:08<dih>you were not supposed to tell
16:08<Draakon>di you tell that before? NO!
16:08*Eddi|zuHause3 slaps Draakon
16:08<LA[lord]>so... dih. have you made your mind?
16:08<Eddi|zuHause3>you were supposed to know
16:09<+glx>dih: what did you do so far to trace the company_pw thing?
16:09<dih>have not seen any of the other yet
16:09*Draakon kills Eddi|zuHause3 with M4
16:09<Draakon>no Eddi
16:09<LA[lord]>Draakon, how can you be so violent?
16:09<Draakon>its a joke
16:09<LA[lord]>you always nuke or kill smb
16:09<dih>glx: i have outputted on the mac the hashed code, and on the server
16:09<Draakon>so what?
16:09*Eddi|zuHause3 drives Draakon over with a BR 01
16:10<dih>i have then set the password from a ppc mac client, and a windows client and a intel mac client
16:10<LA[lord]>Draakon: seems that you too
16:10*dih ties Draakon to the rotors of a helicoptor and turnes on the engine
16:10<Draakon>seem that i too?
16:11<Draakon>rope broke before you turned engine on
16:11<LA[lord]>no, I don't see you.. you are turning too fast
16:11<Draakon>bad eyes then
16:11<LA[lord]>Draakon: I meant that it seems that you missed Eddi|zuHause3 too..
16:11<Draakon>i dint
16:11<dih>glx: i also outputted game seed and servers uniqu id on the client side
16:11<Draakon>how do say
16:11<dih>they both seem fine
16:12<LA[lord]>"rope broke before you turned engine on" -> only conclusion -> Draakon weighs *alot*
16:12<Draakon>ah nvm about that, we dont talk this kind of talk here
16:12<LA[lord]>but let us not spam
16:12<LA[lord]>good night
16:12<LA[lord]>ladies and gentleman
16:13<dih>glx: on the client i am in src/network/network_client.cpp
16:13<LA[lord]>(like here would be any ladies...)
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16:13<dih>i just dont know what else it could be
16:14*glx really need to find a linux ppc that can be installed in pearpc
16:14<dih>debian ^^
16:14*Draakon wonders what to do
16:15<dih>Draakon: lets play a game
16:15<Draakon>what game?
16:15<dih>how about: you win if you manage to be a little more quite for the next 10 mins while dih tries to sort out the endianness issue with company_pw
16:15<Draakon>erm no!
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16:17<dih>glx: do you have any forther ideas?
16:17<dih>what i could check
16:17<dih>hashing is done bu using server unique id and game seed
16:17<dih>they both seem fine though
16:17<+glx>no idea, but if I can install debian in pearpc I can have fun tracing thid bug :)
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16:18<dih>how would you 'trace' it?
16:18<UnderBuilder>there is a blank trg1r.grf for those who doesn't have the data files but the other grfs and the are still without blank versions
16:19<+glx>printf everywhere ;)
16:19<dih>but on what?
16:19<+glx>before sending, after receiving
16:19<dih>i have done the hashed password on both ends, compared the unique id and game seed on both ends
16:20<+glx>and the hash are ok locally?
16:20<dih>the hash is the same on client as on server
16:20<+glx>so the problem is the transmission
16:21<dih>because then there would be a difference between client and server
16:21<dih>but they are both the same
16:21<dih>so the issue is either in the salting or the salt
16:21<+glx>and typing the same password on both end gives the same hash?
16:21<dih>you dont hash the pass on the server
16:22<dih>you hash on client and send hash to server
16:22<dih>this was 'test' from an intel mac 4c7343bd509e9fca13b5b340cba2db76
16:22<dih>this was test from a ppc mac: c00e53872b576ddef501a7a2e47f9f3c
16:22<+glx>so the hashing is the problem
16:23<dih>what i said :-)
16:23<peter__>where is this code? heh
16:23<peter__>hmm, this is all new isn't it...
16:24<dih>for (uint i = 0; i < NETWORK_UNIQUE_ID_LENGTH; i++) salted_password[i] ^
16:24<dih>= _password_server_unique_id[i] ^ (_password_game_seed >> i);
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16:24<+glx>did you compare salted_password?
16:25<dih>salted_password with hashed_password
16:26<Draakon>who is going to hack a OpenTTD server anyway to know a company password that is best there?
16:26<+glx>salted_password on both clients
16:26<dih>how should i
16:26<dih>you mean on 2 clients?
16:27<dih>because the server will not have salted_password
16:27<dih>congratulations Draakon ^^
16:27<+glx>yes ppc and intel clients, salted password should be the same for a given password
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16:28<dih>you were quite for 10 mins ^^
16:28<Draakon>big deal
16:28*dih fires up is linux box
16:29<dih>glx: i can give you results in about 15 mins
16:36<Draakon>gah! im am not making profits :D
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16:41<Draakon>what happens if No closing of Industry patch is on, production is zero and i start taking raw there?
16:41<dih>try it and tell us
16:43<Draakon>instead of taking raws, wait till industry refits himself :P
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16:45<Draakon>and then instantly decreasing too
16:46<Draakon>the magic of patches :D
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16:51<Eddi|zuHause3>santa claus!
16:52<dih>bjarni :-)
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16:59<peter__>bah, crashed my phone :o
16:59<Gonozal_VIII>:S a phone can crash?
16:59<Rubidium>ofcourse it can
16:59<Rubidium>even 5 year old ones can
17:00<Gonozal_VIII>i've never seen one doing that
17:00<Rubidium>well... a spontanious reboot is IMO a kind of crash too
17:00<peter__>this is my sip phone
17:01<Gonozal_VIII>no "reboots" either
17:02<Rubidium>happy you
17:02<@Bjarni>Gonozal_VIII: I recall you saying something out about heating up trains with steam from the locomotive even though you had no idea that the railroads used to do that... well
17:02<@Bjarni> <-- this is what it looks like :)
17:02<SmatZ>my phone locks up really often, several times a day
17:02<@Bjarni> <-- and this is on the outside (with open safety valve)
17:03<Gonozal_VIII>that's a lot of funny thingies..
17:04<@Bjarni>it's semi automatic... it's supposed to maintain the right pressure and water level on it's own
17:04<@Bjarni>but if it worked 100% as intended then the safety valve would never open... and it did ;)
17:05<@Bjarni>it also managed to close it again before I got close :|
17:06<@Bjarni>naturally I was in the rear and of the train when it happened so I had to zoom. The picture ended up being ok anyway
17:06<Eddi|zuHause3>afaik even the early electric engines in germany pre WW I had capability for electric heating
17:06<Eddi|zuHause3>of course they needed matching wagons
17:06<@Bjarni>this system is designed to share the wagons with steam locomotives
17:07<@Bjarni>so electric heating is out of the question as steam locomotives can only supply enough power for headlights and stuff
17:08<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah, of cours
17:08<@Bjarni>also all the cars are pre WW1 ;)
17:08<Gonozal_VIII>that women (or is it a man?) at the end of the platform is so shocked that (s)he has an exclamation mark above her(his) head
17:09<@Bjarni>it's a woman
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17:10<@Bjarni>and she is getting something inside her bag
17:10<Gonozal_VIII>look above her
17:10<@Bjarni>you mean the signal?
17:10<Eddi|zuHause3>Gonozal_VIII: you played too much the sims or something :p
17:11<Gonozal_VIII>that appeared there because she's shocked!
17:11<Gonozal_VIII>people do that all the time
17:11<@Bjarni>she doesn't look like that when I zoom in on her
17:11<Gonozal_VIII>also lightbulbs
17:12<@Bjarni>Gonozal_VIII: you dipshit
17:12<@Bjarni>now you made me zoom in on a random woman who happened to be in a picture I took in a public place
17:12<@Bjarni>I'M NOT LIKE THAT!!!
17:13<Gonozal_VIII>am i supposed to understand that?^^
17:14<SmatZ>lol @ Gonozal_VIII
17:14<SmatZ>"exclamation mark above her(his) head"
17:14<Eddi|zuHause3>"Ab April 1913 erfolgt die Lieferung der 5 bayerischen 1'C1'-Lokomotiven der Baureihe EP 3/5, spätere EP 1, Reichsbahnbaureihe E 62. Es waren die ersten deutschen Elektrolokomotiven mit elektrischer Zugheizung."
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17:15<@Bjarni>1913... that's like a decade newer than these wagons
17:15<Gonozal_VIII>sure, you can see it through the smog
17:15<@Bjarni> <-- here you can see the whole row of wagons with the heat enabled... it's really supposed to leak like that
17:16<@Bjarni><Gonozal_VIII> sure, you can see it through the smog <-- it's not smog... it's fog... it's not uncommon in that area
17:16<@Bjarni>though it was a generally foggy day
17:16<Gonozal_VIII>smog :P
17:17<Gonozal_VIII>much cooler word
17:17<Gonozal_VIII>doesn't have to be right as long as it's cool
17:17<@Bjarni>smog is generated by pollution. Fog is a natural thing that's pretty common in wet areas like the one in question
17:17<dih>glx: hashed password is really different on both clients
17:18<dih>salted password is a bit of troubble getting outputted ^^
17:18<dih>i guess i need %x (does that to hex?)
17:18<peter__>"print" ?
17:18<dih>i was putting it through DEBUG()
17:18<peter__>salted is normal text
17:19<peter__>well starts offa nyway ;)
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17:19<+glx>you can loop to print each char in hex
17:19<dih>DEBUG(net, 1, "[udp] %s", salted_password);
17:19<dih>only gives me gibberish
17:20<Gonozal_VIII>i used to do better jokes... but i'm quite exhausted... been doing uni stuff for more than 12h without a pause
17:21<dih>glx: how?
17:21<dih>i mean - output a char in hex
17:21<peter__>%x indeed
17:21<peter__>printf("%02x", foo)
17:21<dih>thank you
17:22<+glx>for (uint i = 0; i < NETWORK_UNIQUE_ID_LENGTH; i++) printf("%02x", salted_password[i]);
17:22<+glx>followed by printf("\n");
17:22<dih>i used sizeof(salted_password)
17:24<+glx>use lengthof() as it is an array
17:24<+glx>but using the const is ok too
17:25-!-stillunknown [] has joined #openttd
17:26<Arbitrary>what's wrong with putchar('\n'); :( - kids with their grand and fancy passing arbitrary strings to formatter functions these days
17:27<Mark20>is it possible to install openttd with apt-get on ubuntu?
17:27<pavel1269>gn all
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17:28<Rubidium>Mark20: when they take packages from Debians 'SID', then you can
17:28<Mark20>Rubidium: probably not
17:30<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r11815 /trunk/src/signal.cpp: -Codechange (r11802): some compilers were giving a false warning about uninitialized variable
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17:30<dih>salted_password is the same but for the last hex
17:30<+glx>then it's not the same
17:30<dih>but i shalll try it in a nother map ^^
17:30<Rubidium>is the input also the same? and the salt?
17:31<dih>the mac had salted_password of 44ffffffd3ffffffd472012dffffffbe74ffffffc0ffffffb30952ffffffaa2bffffff9e30ffffffcdffffffb058017bffffffbcffffffffffffff86ffffff944b0a273e323a3000
17:31<dih>the amd had 44ffffffd3ffffffd472012dffffffbe74ffffffc0ffffffb30952ffffffaa2bffffff9e30ffffffcdffffffb058017bffffffbcffffffffffffff86ffffff944b0a273e323a3007
17:31<+glx>hmm do the same for password
17:31<Gonozal_VIII>007 yay
17:31<SmatZ>MD5 not working right? or is the last byte the salt?
17:32<+glx>I think md5 works as intended
17:32<@Bjarni>Gonozal_VIII: looks like AMD is an agent... maybe they are a part of echelon and is designed to spy on us
17:33<@Bjarni>we never know what's in the firmware
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17:33<Gonozal_VIII>little red monkey!
17:33<redmonkey>hi :)
17:33<@Bjarni>hidden so well that not even the hardware developers connecting to it will notice
17:34<peter__>One day, Bjarni will say something sensible.
17:34<@Bjarni>Gonozal_VIII: when you said that you have non-secured railroad crossings.. did you mean like this?
17:34<dih>this run they were similar again up to the last 3000 and amd = 3027
17:34<@Bjarni>peter__: everything depends on the eye of the beholder
17:34<dih>sorry 3028
17:35<Gonozal_VIII>hmm yes?
17:36<SmatZ>dih: NETWORK_UNIQUE_ID_LENGTH == 33, but you have written something 144 chars long, meaning 72 bytes
17:36<dih>Bjarni: eye of the 'beerholder'
17:36<SmatZ>but it is very likely I am wrong
17:36<dih>i did sizeof(salted_password)
17:37<SmatZ>but char salted_password[NETWORK_UNIQUE_ID_LENGTH];
17:37<SmatZ>and "44ffffffd3ffffffd472012dffffffbe74ffffffc0ffffffb30952ffffffaa2bffffff9e30ffffffcdffffffb058017bffffffbcffffffffffffff86ffffff944b0a273e323a3007" isn't 66 chars long
17:37<SmatZ> NETWORK_UNIQUE_ID_LENGTH = 33, ///< The maximum length of the unique id of the clients, in bytes including '\0'
17:37<+glx>as I said use lengthof() or the const
17:37<dih>printf("%02x", salted_password[i])
17:38*dih uses the const...
17:38<dih>gives me a sec
17:39<Rubidium>hmm... is a char 4 bytes?
17:39<Rubidium>hmm, that wouldn't explain the values
17:40<SmatZ> for (uint i = 0; i < NETWORK_UNIQUE_ID_LENGTH; i++)
17:40<dih>then why use sizeof() here: checksum.Append((const uint8*)salted_password, sizeof(salted_password));
17:40*Rubidium has a hunch
17:40<SmatZ>^^^ that makes i 0..32, not 0..31 as might be intended
17:41<SmatZ> memset(salted_password, 0, sizeof(salted_password));
17:41<@Bjarni> <Gonozal_VIII> hmm yes? <-- I mean... the crossing is what you see... the signs and nothing else
17:41<@Bjarni>no bells or lights
17:41<SmatZ>there is sizeof() used too...
17:41<Rubidium>oh boy... I wasn't awake when I wrote that
17:42<+glx>it's a memset so sizeof is right there
17:42<@Bjarni>Gonozal_VIII: well... it's not what you expect to see in curves where the speed limit for the trains is 75 km/h
17:42<SmatZ>glx: ok sorry, I am 'a bit' tired :-x
17:43<peter__>char is, of course, 1 byte
17:43<Gonozal_VIII>you can see far there... our crossings are much worse
17:43<@Bjarni>thanks for the warning
17:43<dih>i am getting the same output
17:44<dih>and i am doubting you want me to past it again ^^
17:44<SmatZ>this year, 30 people died at crossings in our country... it is ~3% of all dead in car accidents, a lot :-x
17:44<SmatZ>*last year
17:45<Gonozal_VIII>hmm doesn't seem to be that much
17:45<Gonozal_VIII>and they all died in cars?
17:46<SmatZ>I think so
17:46<Gonozal_VIII>most of the dead on the rails here didn't have a car
17:46<Gonozal_VIII>well.. not with them when they died
17:46<SmatZ>I was talking about only car accidents at crossings
17:46<@Bjarni>last year 400 people died on the roads... 380 of them were due to too high speed so if nobody were speeding then the number would be 20
17:46*Bjarni goes to look up the stats for the railroad
17:46<SmatZ>Bjarni: no speeding != no dead
17:47-!-peter__ [~petern@] has quit [Quit: bwaaahahaha, te eeeh eeehee boingk!]
17:47<@Bjarni>well 20 people died in cases where nobody were speeding
17:48<@Bjarni>I like the name of that diff
17:48<dih>i'll give it a shot Rubidium
17:49<SmatZ>it is like "2% of accidents was caused by 'drunk drivers' (alcohol level > 0)", but nobody says that all accidents where somebody has alcohol > 0 is accounted to alcohol and the statistical number of people with alcohol is > 1%
17:49<SmatZ>so in fact, 'drunk' driving do not increase the danger of accident
17:49<Rubidium>SmatZ: according to that rule 100% of the accidents happen due to alcohol
17:49<SmatZ>Bjarni: would it really matter if they were going 95 (over limit) or 90 (in limit) ?
17:50<Rubidium>as everybody has some alcohol in his/her blood
17:50<SmatZ>Rubidium: that's the other side of our unrealistic laws, yes
17:50<@Bjarni>looks like there are no 2007 numbers but I can get 2006 numbers
17:50<@Bjarni>they are likely the same (more or less)
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17:51<Gonozal_VIII>drunk is >0,05% here and that's a lot more than 2% of the accidents
17:52<@Bjarni>4 collisions in road crossings
17:53<@Bjarni>the 4 lines later it says 1 for the very same thing
17:53<dih>Rubidium: that did it
17:54<SmatZ>people here usually go 5km from one village to another when they are 'drunk' and it really doesn't burt anyone...
17:54<SmatZ>so a few accidents, but a lot caught 'drunk'
17:54<dih>password received on server by ppc mac: 1b627d6fbcf70c5fbdaa77d353cf2911
17:55<dih>password received on server by amd: 1b627d6fbcf70c5fbdaa77d353cf2911
17:55<Gonozal_VIII>84, 67, 57, 56 dead in accidents caused by alcohol in the years 03, 04, 05, 06
17:55<Gonozal_VIII>in austria
17:55<Sacro>dih: fixxored!
17:55<Gonozal_VIII>9,0% 7,6% 7,4% 7,7%
17:55<Gonozal_VIII>of total traffic dead
17:56<SmatZ>Gonozal_VIII: well, "caused by alcohol" doesn't mean it wouldn't happen if there was no alcohol
17:56<SmatZ>and that all accidents when one of drivers has alcohol is accounted to the 'drunk' driver
17:56<SmatZ>no matter how it happened
17:56<SmatZ>so the number could be divided by 2
17:56<Gonozal_VIII>4.020 4.017 3.825 3.565 <-- number of people that got hurt but survived
17:57*dih waits for Rubidiums commit ^^
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17:58<@Bjarni>ok here is the detailed description of injury on people in crossing collisions. One person killed in a car in a crossing with no automated security (like the one I just showed a pic of). One person was lightly injured while riding a vehicle without engine (presumably a bike)
17:58<@Bjarni>that's it
17:58<@Bjarni>so it looks like the roads killed 400 times as many people as trains killed in crossings
17:58<Gonozal_VIII>they wrote "a vehicle without engine" ?^^
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17:59<@Bjarni>actually they wrote "-vehicle without engine" and then 1 in the field for the amount of injuries
18:00<@Bjarni>I can also see that it was in a crossing where the whole road is blocked by barriers (not just the common half road wide ones)
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18:00<Gonozal_VIII>hmm 2.841 2.835 2.746 2.579 <-- that's the number of accidents with alcohol involved...
18:00<SmatZ>the problem here is that there are new very strict laws
18:00<Gonozal_VIII>notice that the injured people are much more...
18:01<SmatZ>and people ignore the laws the more now
18:01<SmatZ>the problem of strict laws
18:02<Gonozal_VIII>i guess they have a strange definition of injured... oh noes, i broke my nail at the crash
18:03<Gonozal_VIII>oh... only the accidents where somebody was hurt are counted
18:04<@Bjarni>the stats I'm reading counts all accidents where people were injured/killed for damaged stuff for at least 10.000 EUR
18:04<@Bjarni>don't ask me why the Danish railroads count damage in EUR instead of our own currency
18:05<Gonozal_VIII>you have a currency?
18:05<Gonozal_VIII>what for?
18:06<Gonozal_VIII>can't you just give people something and get something else back?
18:06<@Bjarni>what else do you use a currency for? :)
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18:06<@Bjarni><Gonozal_VIII> can't you just give people something and get something else back? <-- you could but you need a currency to be able to have a strong currency and strong economy
18:06<Gonozal_VIII>like a paperclip for a house...
18:07<Gonozal_VIII>you could but you need a currency to be able to have a strong currency <-- oooooh
18:07<@Bjarni>I don't think people can disprove that one
18:08<Gonozal_VIII>what about the people that have a weak currency?
18:09<@Bjarni>they don't live here
18:09<@Bjarni>they live down south
18:09<@Bjarni>in Euroland
18:10<dih>go read
18:10<@Bjarni>well... weak is a relative word
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18:10<@Bjarni>weak compared to here :)
18:10<dih>go read
18:10<Arbitrary>2.8 accidents with alcohol involved? Is that someone half-drunk, or a very messy accident?
18:10<Gonozal_VIII>well.. everything got much more expensive with euro
18:11*Bjarni goes to read on the 2020 plan
18:11<Rubidium>Gonozal_VIII: as if oil would not have become as expensive as it is now due to the euro...
18:12<Gonozal_VIII>13,7603 schilling = 1 euro... but directly after the euro was there, everything that used to cost 10 schilling was at least 1 euro
18:12<Rubidium>the prices for food and such have even dropped since the introduction of the euro (at least in the Netherlands)
18:13<Gonozal_VIII>food... at least twice the prices
18:13<Gonozal_VIII>only electronics got cheaper
18:13<Rubidium>Gonozal_VIII: that's due to the weak dollar
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18:14<dih>Rubidium: i beleive that goes to you --> [00:13] <publicserver> planetmaker: hey, dih. That's sweet! You're great devs.
18:14<Rubidium>ah well.... a long time ago a bread was worth the equivalent of one eurocent
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18:14<dih>i used his help at one point when looking for the password issue ^^
18:14<Rubidium>now it's much more, is that the cause of the euro?
18:16<Gonozal_VIII>the cost for foodstuff went up more then 30% in the year of euro introduction
18:17<@Bjarni>crops are more expensive now because farmers started to grow "bio petrol"
18:18<@Bjarni>so combined with that Gonozal_VIII said then it's something you should really notice
18:18<Rubidium>Gonozal_VIII statistics are sooo nice to get such figure ;)
18:18<Gonozal_VIII>personal experience, not statistics
18:18<Gonozal_VIII>they didn't use 13,76, they used 10...
18:19<Rubidium>at the 31st of december a <whatever vegetable that grows in the winter> is worth one euro, in the summer it costs 3 euro -> see prices have gone up by 200% due to the euro
18:19<Gonozal_VIII>things that used to cost 29,90 are now 2,99...
18:20<@Bjarni>Rubidium: that's a really poor example and you know it. However you just stated your political view on the euro
18:20<Rubidium>then the people of your country were stupid enough to pay that price for it
18:20<Rubidium>Bjarni: but it *is* the way statistics are made
18:20<Rubidium>especially the ones you read in the paper/see on the news
18:21<Rubidium>if it isn't shocking, it's not in the paper or the news
18:21<@Bjarni>Rubidium: if ALL shops increases the price by 30% overnight... will you be stupid enough to buy stuff anyway or will you stop buying food?
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18:22<Rubidium>well, you all go to the cheapest store
18:22<Prof_Frink>Rubidium: No, only 17% of statistics are made that way.
18:22<Prof_Frink>83% are made up on the spot.
18:22<@Bjarni> <Rubidium> Bjarni: but it *is* the way statistics are made <--- not really. You just made up an example that wouldn't last a day in the real life
18:22<Gonozal_VIII>don't have much to choose here
18:23<Rubidium>Bjarni: I have *seen* those comparisons in the paper
18:23<SmatZ>Bjarni: 30% inflation?
18:23<@Bjarni>SmatZ: no... your paycheck will not increase
18:24<Sacro>SmatZ: but your penis will, BUY CIALIS
18:24<@Bjarni>Rubidium: I have seen bullshit articles as well... it's not like everything the papers says are correct
18:24<@Bjarni>in fact it's usually not entirely correct
18:24<Rubidium>and the less correct ones are the ones that are the most shocking and thus remain noticed
18:25<@Bjarni>not by me
18:25<SmatZ>Sacro: thanks :-p
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18:25<@Bjarni>well... I notice them but I kill them off quickly for being incorrect
18:27<Rubidium>yes, I know people have misused the introduction of the euro, but in my opinion the effects have been very small and probably unnoticable w.r.t. the fluctuations in the inflation figures
18:28<Rubidium>what is 'more' shocking is that companies are very good in hiding the fact that the raise the price of something
18:28<Gonozal_VIII>expensive stuff didn't change much, only the cheap things
18:29<Rubidium>an example (in 2007): a bag of <sweets X> was 1 euro, then they made the bag 30% smaller for 10% less of the price and they introduced a bag with 30% more that costs 50% more
18:29<Rubidium>this is happening all the time and I have not heard ANYBODY about it
18:30<Rubidium>when it has more effect on the prices of the product than the whole euro introduction has (at least where I live)
18:30<@Bjarni>I don't buy stuff like that
18:30<@Bjarni>so I wouldn't notice
18:30<@Bjarni>it's sweets
18:30<Rubidium>happens with more than just sweets
18:30<@Bjarni>whenever I eat I eat food
18:32<Rubidium>Bjarni: you were good in Japanese, weren't you?
18:32<@Bjarni>that depends on how you define good
18:32<Rubidium>you're the one that's talking Japanese all the time ;)
18:32<@Bjarni>I can read a bit
18:32<@Bjarni>but I can't sit down and read a book
18:33<@Bjarni>at least not yet
18:33<@Bjarni>but... what does that have to do with the euro?
18:33<Rubidium>nothing, but I'm having trouble finding something
18:34<Rubidium>something being the time table for the bus going from the main bus terminal of Tsukuba to a busstop called "Namiki 2-Chome"
18:35<@Bjarni>then try Akihabara... you can buy all the freaky stuff there
18:35<@Bjarni>ohh... like that
18:35<Rubidium>that's where the train to Tsukuba departs from ;)
18:35<Gonozal_VIII>why do you want a timetable from a bus in japan :S
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18:35<@Bjarni>I think he is planning on going there
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18:36<Rubidium>yup, in about four weeks ;)
18:37-!-Sacr1 [~Ben@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
18:37<Sacr1>something isn't right...
18:37-!-Sacr1 [~Ben@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit []
18:37<Rubidium>now it's right again
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18:46<@Bjarni>Rubidium: btw if you go to Akihabara, then don't look like an otaku... some criminal minds discovered that otaku tend to have plenty of money when going shopping there and in Japan they go shopping with cash, not credit card
18:46<@Bjarni>meaning the risk of getting robbed is present
18:47<@Bjarni>so don't look like the typical otaku (which is likely hard with your skin colour, but still)
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19:12<Gonozal_VIII>wtf is an otaku and what colour do they have? blue?
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19:14<@Bjarni>and for colour... they try to hide themselves by getting the same skin colour as the local population
19:17<@Bjarni>well... a description on how they look (if they aren't cosplaying) is dirty cloth and unwashed hair... or something
19:17<@Bjarni>not really sure
19:29<Gonozal_VIII>openttd.exe has encountered a problem and needs to close. We are sorry for the inconvenience.
19:30<dih>the german db sometimes has to say stuff in english, and once said (after a delay of 20 mins or so) "we appologize for any conveniance we may have cause"
19:31<Gonozal_VIII>at least they don't have much to apologize for
19:32<@Bjarni>I like what they said on the speaker here once
19:33<@Bjarni>train (dest and time) is cancelled today. (repeat). The cancellation is due to the fact that we lost the train and have no idea where it is
19:33<@Bjarni>they really said something like that :D
19:34<@Bjarni>well... I wouldn't be surprised that they actually lost the train
19:34<@Bjarni>I'm just surprised that they told why it was cancelled in that case
19:35<dih>was on a plane once and just after take off the captain admitted that the 3rd engine nearly went up in flames on the flight out
19:35<@Bjarni>now they installed GPS units in all locomotives, EMUs and DMUs and it's active even when the train is turned off
19:35<dih>"we wont use it, dont worry - we'll get there, it'll just take a little longer"
19:35<@Bjarni>so they can track them at all time
19:35<@Bjarni>dih: heh... sounds nice
19:36<dih>bed is calling
19:36<dih>have a nice one ladies ^^
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19:37<@Bjarni>huh... did you guys actually read the wikipedia link I posted?
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19:37<@Bjarni>Common uses are anime otaku (one who sometimes enjoys many days of excessive anime watching with no rest) <-- wtf
19:37<Gonozal_VIII>no, never
19:38<@Bjarni>watching anime... for days... even with sleeping breaks I wouldn't do that
19:38<@Bjarni>hi Hendikins
19:38<@Bjarni>I heard the dry season is over... you should be happy now :)
19:39<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm... those new sand pits can run out of sand...
19:39<Gonozal_VIII>how can you run out of sand :S
19:39<Sacro>Gonozal_VIII: stand on the beach
19:39<Sacro>walk towards the water
19:39<@Bjarni>a locomotive can
19:40<@Bjarni>and that's not a good thing
19:40<@Bjarni>but it's not as severe as running out of diesel... but still you shouldn't do that
19:41<@Bjarni>Hendikins: are you here? :)
19:41<Hendikins>Bjarni: Hrm?
19:41<Gonozal_VIII>there's a gold mine :S
19:42<Gonozal_VIII>in temperate...
19:43<@Bjarni>Hendikins: you joined a moment too late. I quoted a speech on the speaker for cancelling a train
19:44<@Bjarni> <Bjarni> train (dest and time) is cancelled today. (repeat). The cancellation is due to the fact that we lost the train and have no idea where it is
19:44<@Bjarni>Hendikins: have you ever said anything like that? :)
19:44<Gonozal_VIII>valuables are gone but there's gold instead
19:45<Hendikins>My special for yesterday is "Attention passengers on platform 1. For the comfort of your fellow passengers, passengers using personal entertainment equipment should use headphones with it - nobody else wants to listen to your music"
19:45<Hendikins>Bjarni: ^
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19:48<@Bjarni>"keep your personal stereo personal"
19:48<@Bjarni>I think they say something like that in London
19:48<@Bjarni>basically the same thing
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19:53<Gonozal_VIII>wtf is happening there, random tiles are getting cleared and i get a message saving still in progress, please wait until finished bla
19:55<@Bjarni>Rubidium: I think I found the timetable... but acrobat reader is currently busy installing Asian fonts :/
19:55<Sacro>mmm asians
19:56<@Bjarni>looks like Rubidium is going there
19:56<Sacro>wish i was
19:56<Gonozal_VIII>hmm random tile clearing seems to be not really random but around sawmills... i guess that's a new ecs feature then...
19:57<Gonozal_VIII>but what's up with the saving still in progress, please wait until it is finished error message every month without doing anyting?
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19:59<Hendikins>Bjarni: Well, there was silence after I announced it, which was the point of the exercise.
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20:00<Hendikins>Bjarni: And one of the security staff loved it
20:01<Gonozal_VIII>aaaand the population assertion
20:02<@Bjarni>Rubidium: never mind... it turned out to be high speed busses only... they look nice though
20:03<SmatZ>Gonozal_VIII: nice
20:04<SmatZ>Gonozal_VIII: I wasn't able to reproduce it
20:04<Gonozal_VIII>but i don't know how
20:06<Sacro>mmm reproducing
20:06<Gonozal_VIII>but i get the saving still in progress thing wit r11814, new game, no newgrfs every month
20:07<Sacro>is Bjarne Stroustrup Bjarni?
20:08*Sacro is 83% sure
20:08<Sacro>that's good enough for me
20:09<Gonozal_VIII>how to disable that annoying error thingy?
20:09<SmatZ>Gonozal_VIII: only by recompiling
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20:10<Gonozal_VIII>so it was fixed today?
20:10<+glx>Gonozal_VIII: was it a new game?
20:11<+glx>and it asserted?
20:11<Gonozal_VIII>yes that too
20:11<+glx>and you didn't restarted after the assertion?
20:11<Gonozal_VIII>it terminates by itself after that
20:12<@Bjarni>Sacro: さいこうきみつ です
20:12<+glx>Gonozal_VIII: go on
20:13<@Bjarni>Sacro: so quit talking about it
20:13<+glx>and attach latest dmp_cmds_*.sav
20:13<+glx>and commands-out.log
20:14<+glx>(they are in save/autosave)
20:14<@Bjarni>Sacro: that is what you get for starting to talk about me while I look in the dictionary in order to find info for Rubidium
20:15<Gonozal_VIII>i started the game with ecs active and then deactivated it in the running game to see if that caused the saving in progress stuff... shortly after that i got the assertion
20:15<@Bjarni>now I told you a message and you will have to work to figure out what it is
20:15<@Bjarni>honour what I said or die.. it's as simple as that
20:15<Sacro>make me
20:15<@Bjarni>I just did
20:15<Sacro>no you didn't
20:15<+glx>Gonozal_VIII: to remove the "saving in progress" stuff just disable autosave
20:15<@Bjarni>prove me wrong then
20:16<Gonozal_VIII>buuut i want autosave?
20:16<@Bjarni>stop obeying what I just told you
20:16<+glx>Gonozal_VIII: you still have it (but with strange names)
20:16<@Bjarni>then you do honour it
20:16<Sacro>it's my party and i'll cry if i want to
20:17<@Bjarni>looks like Sacro is lost in translation
20:18<Gonozal_VIII>ah.. you added a "manual" save to the loop to track the assertion thing?
20:19<+glx>so reload the latest autosave and don't disable any newgrf
20:19<Gonozal_VIII>not good...
20:19<+glx>maybe it will still assert (use latest autosave with newgrf not disabled)
20:19<Gonozal_VIII>did a lot of new game starting and fast forwarding after that
20:20<+glx>next time you know what to do if you get this assert
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20:26<Gonozal_VIII>asserted again
20:27<Gonozal_VIII>new game, 3 years fast forward... nothing... disabled ecs grfs, assertion at the end of the running month
20:29<Sacro>Gonozal_VIII: it's probably bored
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20:33<Gonozal_VIII>i guess the command log is not very useful... the only thing inside there are the saves
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20:37<Gonozal_VIII>no assertion with the save and not disabling ecs
20:37<Gonozal_VIII>i guess that's a different problem
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21:27<@Belugas>Gonozal_VIII: "disabled ecs grfs," what do you mean? remove them from the grfs list?
21:31<Sacro>@openttd commit
21:32<Sacro>oi bot, answer
21:32<Sacro>@openttd help
21:32<SpComb>Logs: (old: )
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23:48<Draakon>whats up?
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---Logclosed Sat Jan 12 00:00:21 2008