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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-01-12

---Logopened Sat Jan 12 00:00:21 2008
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00:09<@Belugas>debugginh...what else :(
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03:17<dih>@OpenTTD youngest
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03:34<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11816 /trunk/src/network/network_client.cpp: -Fix: forgot clearing one byte, causing the passwords to differ slightly on different platforms.
03:35<Gonozal_VIII>that sounds so easy
03:36<hylje>also subtle
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03:52<Gonozal_VIII>it's coming right for us!
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03:55<Gonozal_VIII>They get around the regulations by yelling "It's coming right for us!" in order to exploit the loophole that they can kill any animal in self-defense. :-)
03:56<Eddi|zuHause2>it's not really funny if you have to explain the joke...
04:00<peter__>i got it :o
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04:44<roboman>out of interest, will the win9x version run on anything earlier than win9x?
04:44<roboman>say freedos
04:46<dih>regex it - would help
04:46<dih>dos does not match win9\
04:49<roboman>but 95 yes
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04:53<pv2b>wouldn't be too hard to make a dos port if there were sdl for dos. also i think you'd need something like a 32-bit extender (i think?)
04:56<peter__>freedos being dos, not windows...
04:56<peter__>pv2b, sdl is not required
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04:57<pv2b>well, ok, you could write a custom dos graphics driver
04:57<pv2b>sounds like work though
04:57<peter__>allegro runs on dos, iirc
04:57<pv2b>does openttd have the ability to use allegro for sound and graphics though?
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04:58<peter__>not currently
04:58<Eddi|zuHause2>you should try to make the dedicated server run first
04:58<peter__>there is a driver system to support different stuff though
04:58<Eddi|zuHause2>then you can worry about graphics
04:58<peter__>Eddi|zuHause2, good luck with tcp/ip? :)
04:59<pv2b>you could use wattcp :-)
04:59*pv2b has a dos machine with a tcp/ip toolchain installed on it
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04:59<Eddi|zuHause2>i'm sorry, i might have expressed myself ambiguously... i meant "you" as in "not me" :p
05:00<pv2b>shouldn't the ttdpatch run on dos though?
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05:01<peter__>yes, so?
05:01<pv2b>a alternative if you want to play a relatively modern ttd on a dos only machine.
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05:32<Forked>hrm.. wonder whats the easiest.. cross-compile (target is win32) in linux or figure out how to get BuildOTTD to just compile the source I have, not fuss about and download a selected rev and compile with just one patch.. (don't answer, I'm surfing for it;)
05:34<peter__>cygwin... or msys or whatever it is
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05:37<Forked>ye.. doesn't look like buildottd wants to play along for several patches
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05:47<peter__>yes, but buildottd just uses one of cygwin or msys, i don't remember which
05:58<Desolator>actually MinGW
05:59<Desolator>I'm not sure if it includes MSYS as well
05:59<Desolator>(and it would only need a few bins from it: sh, make, and?)
06:00<Wolf01>mingw is the compiler, but buildottd is based on msys
06:00<Desolator>Forked: If you can find a web install of DX SDK, you can use my guide for MS VC++ 2k5 Express
06:01<Desolator>Well, I haven't really looked at it's contents
06:01<Desolator>Wofl01, do you have some experience with the Windows API registry functions?
06:02<Wolf01>no, i use directly the .net to access registry
06:03<Wolf01>last time with winAPIs i got headache
06:03<Desolator>I know :P
06:04<Wolf01>and now i'm fighting with twain32.dll to be able to acquire color images without the windows' gui
06:05<Desolator>On the PSDK docs it says that the value of the registry value (still with me? :P) must be passed as const LPBYTE (const unsigned char *), and then it's converted internally to Unicode. This is fine with ANSI, but on on Earth are you going to represent Unicode strings in unsigned char arrays?
06:05<Wolf01>with windows all is possible
06:06<Desolator>(also, reinterpret_cast<const BYTE *>(bla) won't work if bla is char * O_o
06:06<Desolator>I nkow :)
06:08<Wolf01>like works, but not or something like it, the second one returns 12:00:00.000 always but the date is correct
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06:32<Wolf01>i have some questions about the 8bpp graphics replacement project
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06:34<Wolf01>i noticed that most of the graphics, especially the gui, but also road tunnels, have only different colours or are slightly different from the originals
06:35<Wolf01>so, if we want open/free graphics, don't they should be more different?
06:36<Wolf01>in this picture by lordazamath is shown the differences with the originals
06:38<dih>some look they have been made from scratch actually
06:39<Wolf01>yes, i read, but if they have been made from scratch, why not made them different?
06:40<Wolf01>like the 2 crates..
06:40<Wolf01>or the buoy with the flag moved left by 1 px
06:40<Wolf01>the bin too
06:41<dih>the bin does not even look like made from scratch
06:41<dih>just has some color replacement ^^
06:41<Wolf01>the pointers instead are really good
06:42<dih>the newspaper is nice ^^
06:43<dih>and the trophe, but why on earth are they going green?
06:43<dih>some of them are a lot darker
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06:55<Forked>Desolator: I'm on that guide now :) was just out for a bit to shop the needed drinkable stuff for tonight.
06:58<Desolator>If you have the space and internet speed, you can dl the whole dx sdk and get rid of the docs & sample code, I'm not sure if there's a web installer for it
06:58<Forked>already had it laying around :)
06:59<Desolator>(also, there's a newer platform sdk availabe, I still kept the older one because M$'s genuine valiation has the worst reliability possible)
07:02<Forked>8192x128 was fun
07:02<Forked>The Longest Track and then just connect everything
07:02<Desolator>yea XDD
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07:03<Forked>I tried generating a 8192x8192 the other day too .. on my amd athlon64 x2 6400+ (3.2GHz dualcore) with 4GB ram .. lets just say that once finished (15mill + population .. 12500ish towns, biggest around 6k people) .. there was nto alot of movement on my one bus :)
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07:04<Gonozal_VIII>wow, i found a tt cd
07:04<Desolator>hmm, who made the credits section of the readme.txt file? :))
07:04<Gonozal_VIII>somewhere in a dark, dusty corner
07:04<Gonozal_VIII>no idea that i had that
07:05<Forked>mm coffee
07:07<Gonozal_VIII>from pc player magazine may 98
07:16<Wolf01>i found a TTDx cd for windows which is for dos :/
07:17<Wolf01>the windows version is impossible to find here...
07:17<Gonozal_VIII>i'll test if my tto cd works in xp
07:18<Wolf01>with dosbox it should do
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07:47<Eddi|zuHause2>my brother bought TTO back when it came out
07:47<Eddi|zuHause2>after we played the demo, he became totally addicted
07:47<Eddi|zuHause2>that hasn't really changed since then ;)
07:49<Gonozal_VIII>yay new atlantis
07:54<@DorpsGek>dih: latest: r11816
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08:11<Gonozal_VIII> <-- heheheheheheheheh nice location of my isp
08:11<Forked>well this is turning out to be a pain
08:12<Gonozal_VIII>you have to click on the minus a few times to zoom out... they don't have high zoom level pictures from the middle of the ocean^^
08:12<peter__>Gonozal_VIII, hah, that site gets my work's ip addresses wrong
08:13<peter__>they end up about 100 metres from my house instead ^^
08:14<Gonozal_VIII>somewhere in the ocean south of africa is a bit more than 100 metres away from here^^
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08:17<Forked>it wont build :\ blergh
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08:24<Forked>..\src\ottdres.rc(58) : error RC2104 : undefined keyword or key name: IDC_STATIC <- any suggestions to what I'm missing in my visual c++ 2005 express? :\
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08:30<+glx>hmm copy afxres.h from "platform sdk/include/mfc" to "Visual studio 8/vc/include"
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08:32<Forked>ah, I see I must have messed up and got the wrong one earlier
08:32<Forked>from 2,15kB to 32,2kB .. heh
08:32<+glx>I think you followed wiki
08:32<Forked>I googled for that file though
08:33<Forked>I always do something wrong :)
08:34<Forked>looks alot better now, thanks
08:36<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r11817 /trunk/src/ (group.h group_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: Base vehicle group validity on owner, not name.
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08:46<LA[lord]>hmm.. you guys give me any "live" comments on GUI too?
08:47<Gonozal_VIII>nooooo to grey!
08:47<Gonozal_VIII>ah... still loading
08:48<LA[lord]>what grey?
08:48<Gonozal_VIII>(forum background)
08:48<LA[lord]>the last post anyway
08:49<Gonozal_VIII>i somehow don't like that cursor
08:50<LA[lord]>that's Zephyris' one
08:50<LA[lord]>and had a discussion several pages ago
08:50<LA[lord]>and this was the result..
08:51<Gonozal_VIII>and the fat arrows are strange... maybe that's just because i'm used to the old ones
08:51<LA[lord]>fat arrows are Zephyris' too :P
08:52<Gonozal_VIII>some symbols look very greenish
08:52<LA[lord]>which ones?
08:53<Gonozal_VIII>fist, 6th, 2nd after the missing, refit thingy.. well most^^
08:53<LA[lord]>in the same post there is a gif too, what has the original ones too...
08:53<Gonozal_VIII>lots of green
08:54<LA[lord]>I don't know why but what's planned to be yellow will turn green if I appl thepalette... That's wh
08:55<LA[lord]>especially on the broken arow
08:55<@DorpsGek>dih: Commit by rubidium :: r11816 trunk/src/network/network_client.cpp (2008-01-12 08:34:16 UTC)
08:55<@DorpsGek>dih: -Fix: forgot clearing one byte, causing the passwords to differ slightly on different platforms.
08:56<Gonozal_VIII>yes, that's all green
09:02<Gonozal_VIII>and the lord looked at what he created and he saw that it was too green
09:03<Gonozal_VIII>so he sent out the man to cut down and poison the greens
09:04<LA[lord]>Gonozal_VIII: If somebody else says it's too green too (maybe mention inthe post) then I'll think of it :)
09:04<dih>bad Gonozal_VIII, ver bad :-P
09:04<dih>it's too green LA
09:04<Gonozal_VIII> Post subject: Re: [8bpp] Graphics Replacement Project - Revived
09:04<Gonozal_VIII>New postPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 2:55 pm
09:04<Gonozal_VIII>Traffic Manager
09:04<Gonozal_VIII>Traffic Manager
09:04<Gonozal_VIII>Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 4:50 pm
09:04<Gonozal_VIII>Posts: 187
09:04<Gonozal_VIII>Aren't the coins and the cup a bit to green?
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09:05<LA[lord]>hi Draakon
09:05<Draakon>baaahhh what, LA?
09:05<LA[lord]>ok.. I'll do something about it
09:05<SpComb>Logs: (old: )
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09:10<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11818 /trunk/src/ (115 files in 7 dirs): -Codechange: split player.h into smaller pieces.
09:11<LA[lord]>but the pause button isn't too green?
09:11<LA[lord]>then I can use colours from there
09:11<LA[lord]>it seems more like orange..
09:12<Gonozal_VIII>are you colourblind?
09:12<LA[lord]>my screen is
09:12<LA[lord]>I've got black&hite monitor :P
09:12<LA[lord]>black and white*
09:13<LA[lord]>actually, it should be a pretty hard to draw with such screen...
09:13*LA[lord] slaps the a
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09:16<dih>2008-01-10 17:51:35 <Draakon> !password
09:16<dih>2008-01-10 17:51:35 <publicserver> demons
09:16<Draakon>oh lol
09:17<Draakon>LA: blow your current monitor up and buy new one
09:19<Draakon>dih: publicserver once even say gayest too
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09:22<blubb>hi everyone
09:22<blubb>i have a question
09:22<Draakon>what question?
09:22<blubb>can anyone give me a hand with openttd on ubuntu?
09:23<Prof_Frink>blubb: Probably
09:23<Draakon>sorry, windows here
09:23<blubb>i am running linux mint (built on ubuntu) and I dont seem to get it right
09:23<blubb>i downloaded the .deb package and copied all required files into the correct filder as shown in the readme
09:23<blubb>and now i am stuck
09:24<blubb>it says i should do a make, but afaik i dont have a makefile
09:24<Prof_Frink>what happens if you run `openttd` in a terminal?
09:24<Prof_Frink>blubb: No need to `make` from a .deb
09:24<blubb>it says cannot open file
09:24*Hendikins nukes the OS on his laptop, and will have openttd on it later
09:25<blubb>i have seen that somewhere in the forums
09:25<blubb>i can look for it there -
09:25<Draakon>Hndikins: lol why?
09:25<blubb>thank you very much, this ist kind of awkward
09:25<dih>bulbb: where do you have the file named
09:26<Prof_Frink>blubb:'s from the original ttd.
09:26<blubb>oh okay
09:26<blubb>now that you ask i see that it is missing
09:26<dih>and which version of OpenTDD ?
09:27*Prof_Frink thinks openttd should fail more obviously if it doesn't find the files
09:27<LA[lord]>is there such version?
09:28<blubb>i will copy that missing file - funny that there was nothing about the sammple file
09:28<LA[lord]>there is.. I think in readme there is too
09:28<blubb>i dont know i downloaded openttd-
09:29<Prof_Frink>You do know it's in the apt repos?
09:29<blubb>LA[lord] it is in the readme, sorry
09:29<Hendikins>Draakon: Because I've done a lot of prodding, probing and generally breaking stuff (new laptop). Now that I've found what works, doesn't work, etc., I'm going to give it a clean slate
09:29<blubb>Prof_Frink: right it said something about it, but the computer doesn't have internet access
09:30<dih>Hendikins: which os?
09:30<Prof_Frink>blubb: Ah, fair enogh
09:30<Hendikins>dih: Linux, with some hardware not supported out of the box on my distro.
09:30<dih>nasty ^^
09:30<dih>oh - out of the box not supported
09:31<peter__>is it supported in the box?
09:31<Hendikins>dih: Correct - hence prodding, probing and breaking things.
09:31<Prof_Frink>breaking things is good.
09:31<blubb>thank you all! you have been very helpful :)
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09:32<Prof_Frink>I learned how init worked by breaking it horribly
09:32<Hendikins>dih: I've been able to beat it more or less in to submission, but with heaps of cruft and still a bit of breakage
09:35<Sacro> whoops
09:35<LA[lord]>hehe.. look now, is it still so green? I hope not
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09:39<Draakon>what is green?
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09:39<LA[lord]>check the previous pages
09:40<Eddi|zuHause2>"whoops" is good ;)
09:40<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause2: indeed...
09:41<LA[lord]>Eddi|zuHause2: ??
09:41<Eddi|zuHause2>LA[lord]: the article about Auschwitz on the same page as the advertisement to sell "gas"
09:45<Draakon>question: when i click build many random industries in scenario editor, it builds too many, how can i change it?
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09:49<dih>in the difficulty settings
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09:50<Draakon>no. of industries?
09:52<Eddi|zuHause2>sounds like a rather fitting entry ;)
09:55<dih>i would actually think it would be 'number of competitors' that should influence the number of industries
09:55<Draakon>and how that will be possibile?
09:56<dih>that was meant sarcastig nitwhit
09:56<Eddi|zuHause2>i thought about a similar answer, but i decided that sarcasm does not translate well over IRC
09:57<dih>yes it does
09:57<dih>problem here was the receiving end
09:57<Eddi|zuHause2><dih> yes it does <- that might as well have been sarcasm ;)
09:57<dih>not with the message that followed it
09:58<dih>that makes it pretty clear that the _first_ line at least was not
09:58<Eddi|zuHause2>that's why i took it out of context ;)
09:58<dih>meany :-P
09:59*dih wonders how many wars could be started if things were commenly taken out of context
09:59<dih>hey - wait a second...
10:01<Draakon>ok i am waiting, but for what?
10:01<Eddi|zuHause2>Draakon: you are surely the wrong person for this kind of game
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10:04<dih>Eddi|zuHause2: he might be just the right person for such a game :-D
10:04<dih>enphasis on _just_
10:05<Eddi|zuHause2>i have to go
10:07<Draakon>weee new version of ECS is out
10:07<dih>spoil sprt Eddi
10:08<Eddi|zuHause2>i don't want to risk exposing you guys to get infected with real life
10:08<Gonozal_VIII>again? he just released 3 new vectors yesterday
10:08<Gonozal_VIII>argh rl
10:08*dih tries to look at something other than his screen
10:09<Draakon>what 3 vectors?
10:09<Gonozal_VIII>town, mach and basic
10:09<Gonozal_VIII>beta 4
10:10<Gonozal_VIII>with gold mine in temperate
10:10<Draakon>uh oh
10:10<Draakon>i gotta download it soon
10:10<Gonozal_VIII>lots of new sprites too
10:11<Draakon>i know theres a new closing mecanishm included too
10:11<Gonozal_VIII>yes... but i noticed strange behaviour
10:12<Draakon>what behaviour?
10:12<Gonozal_VIII>new game... a narrow gauge rail to a forrest
10:12<Gonozal_VIII>maximum transportet% was 70
10:12<Gonozal_VIII>in 1923 the forrest had ultimate production level
10:13<Draakon>take it as a feature then
10:13<Draakon>and keep it quitet
10:13<Draakon>its a good bug
10:13<Gonozal_VIII>which of course dropped the rating to ~30%
10:13<Gonozal_VIII>and production level went down again fast
10:13<Draakon>darng it
10:13<Draakon>are you using a patched game anyway?
10:13<Gonozal_VIII>couldn't keep up with narrow gauge, the wagons only load 5t of wood
10:14<Gonozal_VIII>no, trunk
10:14<Draakon>as i am seeing this same behavior with patched games but with ECS Beta 3
10:14<Draakon>well not like that
10:14<Draakon>but almost the same
10:14<Gonozal_VIII>maybe it's smooth economy setting or something like that
10:15<Gonozal_VIII>didn't do a lot of testing yet
10:15<Draakon>as i have No closing of Industries patch, when production is 100T and it goes to zero it comes back as it was at start
10:15<Draakon>of the game
10:16<Draakon>file size has been increased too for beta 4
10:16<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm that's not good for georges vectors, they start with normal
10:16<Gonozal_VIII>as i said... lots of new sprites
10:16<Draakon>dont care
10:16<Gonozal_VIII>powerplant and coal mine
10:16<Draakon>as i hate closures of industries
10:17<dih>Draakon are you the kind of person that uses /god in shoot 'em up games too?
10:17<Gonozal_VIII>i don't "hate" it... but it happens too often
10:17<Gonozal_VIII>but that's because map generator generates too many
10:18<Gonozal_VIII>even at very low
10:18<Draakon>dih: in first time of play yes to get familiar with it, after that, it gets to real banging
10:18<dih>same problem with breakdowns set to 'reduced' - there are just too many
10:18<Hendikins>Hrm, would it be considered weird for me to play with openttd at work when I work at a railway station? :P
10:18<Gonozal_VIII>just try not to mix the two things up ;-)
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10:19<Draakon>dih: it is a different story with this game and FPS game
10:19<Draakon>Gonozal: its not wierd
10:19<Draakon>it good
10:19<Draakon>its good*
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10:20<Gonozal_VIII>there should be less industries at map generations but a lot more should open during the game
10:21<Draakon>has the power plant the same sprites for the rest of the game as it has in the begging of 1920?
10:21<Gonozal_VIII>at least one per year on a 512^2 map with ecs
10:21<Gonozal_VIII>i don't know
10:21<dih>Gonozal: have a look at my competition game
10:22<dih>i on purpose set very low towns and low indus
10:22<Draakon>i started a new game and all industries produce nothing
10:22<Gonozal_VIII>changes after 256 ticks
10:23<Gonozal_VIII>also the number or resources left in mines
10:23<Gonozal_VIII>starts with 0
10:23<Gonozal_VIII>i went all WTF over that at first
10:24<dih>Draakon just did ^^
10:24<Draakon>still power plant has too oldish spirets
10:24<Gonozal_VIII>i saw different powerplants
10:25<Draakon>i try year 2500
10:25<Draakon>to see what sprites are then the same as in 1920
10:26<Draakon>same as in 1920
10:27<Gonozal_VIII>maybe the sprites depend on production level
10:28<Gonozal_VIII>i saw one with a concrete cooling tower
10:28<Draakon>hmm k then i start delivering lots of coal there then
10:29<Gonozal_VIII>and there seem to be more breweries
10:30<Gonozal_VIII>no generated
10:30<Gonozal_VIII>less strict placement rules maybe
10:31<Draakon>ah yes
10:31<Draakon>it was annoinyg
10:31<Draakon>annoying for placement rules
10:32<Draakon>how can Bank produce gold? :P
10:32<Gonozal_VIII>almost never generated breweries and shipyards
10:32-!-dih [] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
10:33<Draakon>coal mine size now is bad
10:33<Draakon>too large
10:34<Gonozal_VIII>you can build a station inside it :-)
10:38<Draakon>i like the old one more
10:39<Gonozal_VIII>well... it's hard to see that it's a mine
10:39<Gonozal_VIII>i guess that
10:39<Gonozal_VIII>is because it isn't
10:40<Gonozal_VIII>that's the thing where coal is purified/changed whatever
10:42*Hendikins builds a copy of ottd on his desktop
10:43<Gonozal_VIII>does the gold mine have a blinking sprite in the southern corner for you too?
10:44<Draakon>and for me power plant built 2 coolings now too
10:44<Gonozal_VIII>they change a lot
10:45<Draakon>now one big instead
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10:46<Draakon>try funding a coal mine
10:47<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm i can't?
10:47<Gonozal_VIII>too close everywhere
10:48<Draakon>make a empty scenario
10:48<Draakon>then fund while you play it
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10:51<Gonozal_VIII>you mean the construction animations? that's not new
10:52-!-UnderBuilder [~chatzilla@] has joined #openttd
10:52<Gonozal_VIII>now i have fast forward on and watch a powerplant changing^^
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10:54<Gonozal_VIII>the smoke from the big cooling tower looks strange
10:55<Gonozal_VIII>there's a part of the smoke cloud cut off
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11:00<Draakon>sorry i was away
11:00<Gonozal_VIII>nooooo whyyyyy
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11:04<SpComb>Logs: (old: )
11:04<UnderBuilder>idea for the company signs newgrf: a fence rounding those signs
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11:05<Gonozal_VIII>not only dirt
11:09<LA[lord]>anyone comment on those three sprites?
11:10<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm it's hard to tell that that's a train
11:10*LA[lord] feels ignored... :(
11:11*LA[lord] not anymore
11:11<Gonozal_VIII>i think it's downscaled too much
11:11<Gonozal_VIII>you should start drawing smaller
11:12<LA[lord]>Actually I drew it in that size
11:12<LA[lord]>and if it was bigger then I couldn't put rails in there
11:13<LA[lord]>but is it a good idea anyway?
11:13<Gonozal_VIII>yes... but it merges with the background
11:13<LA[lord]>because it doesn't have that dark line
11:13<LA[lord]>in the edges
11:13<Gonozal_VIII>the plane and the bus look good
11:14<LA[lord]>it's airport not plane :D
11:14<Gonozal_VIII>i know^^ but there's a plane
11:14<Gonozal_VIII>maybe the train in a different colour?
11:15<LA[lord]>I'll add the dark line, then it's distinguishable
11:15<Gonozal_VIII>ah.. zoomed in now... you're right
11:15<Gonozal_VIII>hmm green pixels between train and rails..
11:15<Gonozal_VIII>what's that?
11:16<LA[lord]>dunno.. a 'typo'
11:18<Sacro>goddamnit tis cold
11:18<Gonozal_VIII>hmm plane is small with runway around... train is small with rail... bus should be smaller with more road?
11:18<LA[lord]>actually, the train isn't aligned in the centre
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11:36<LA[lord]>You meant like this?
11:36<Gonozal_VIII>hehe, yes
11:36<LA[lord]>that train has evil face, don't you think?
11:37<Gonozal_VIII>cthulhu face^^
11:37<LA[lord]>and the icon, where I got the idea to make the train as such
11:38<LA[lord]>cthulhu ??
11:38<Gonozal_VIII>google it..
11:39<Gonozal_VIII>look at the face
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11:45<pavel1269>assert(1) will cause assertation failed or assert(0) ??
11:45<hylje>so long the expression evaluates as false
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11:45<pavel1269>ty 0 :)
11:48<Sacro>pavel1269: 1
11:48<pavel1269>... :/
11:50<Sacro>0 = true
11:51<hylje>that seems silly
11:52<Sacro>hylje: return 0
11:52<Sacro>if (function())
11:53<reto_>heya, is Bilbo sometiimes here in the chat?
11:54<Sacro>@seen Bilbo
11:54<@DorpsGek>Sacro: Bilbo was last seen in #openttd 24 weeks, 4 days, 19 hours, 43 minutes, and 46 seconds ago: <bilbo> or maybe add also no date at alll and "the old style" for compatibility
11:54<Sacro>not for a while
11:55<Sacro>right, i need to burn my cpu to make some heat
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12:00<reto_>hmm, I'm just getting the grass groth patch up to date (at least I try)
12:00<reto_>but I'm not sure if this worth the effort?
12:00<reto_>grwoth :)
12:00<reto_>the patch was updated in october..
12:00<reto_>but the thread has been active in the last two weeks or so
12:01<hylje>go for it
12:01<reto_>@seen boekabart
12:01<@DorpsGek>reto_: boekabart was last seen in #openttd 12 weeks, 4 days, 3 hours, 1 minute, and 4 seconds ago: <boekabart> TrueBrain: i know how hard true pathfinding is - it's almost impossibly hard. I've written software that puts 1000's of connecting pipes in factories - automatically, not easy :)
12:05-!-dih [] has joined #openttd
12:06<LA[lord]>hello dih
12:06<pavel1269>anyone see server on
12:07<LA[lord]>it says server is down
12:08<pavel1269>just wondering ...
12:08-!-Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has left #openttd [Leaving]
12:08<pavel1269>i wonder if i iwll ever solve this problem :(
12:11<pavel1269>maybye i know problem? incoming goes all to 3979 but outgoing go to ... 63972,49675,4530,1263,20903 -- thats like random
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12:13<reto_>pavel1269: wait a second
12:13<Wezz6400>pavel1269 as far as I know that is normal tcp/ip behaviour
12:13<reto_>pavel1269: are you talking about your firewals configuration?
12:13<reto_>pavel1269: if yes, thats normal, the source port is usually choosen randommly
12:13<pavel1269>where is the problem then ... why noone cant see me except MS ...
12:14<dih>otherwise you would have troubble
12:14<dih>pavell269: what are you trying to do?
12:14<pavel1269>start server?
12:14<reto_>pavel1269: so usually you add a rule src-host:any dest-host:<your-ip> src-port:any dest-port:<your-service-port>
12:14<pavel1269>whats that? :)
12:15<reto_>thats an example firwall rule :)
12:15<dih>pavell: windows behind a adsl router?
12:15<Wolf01>pavel1269, i noticed you are interested on keep updated some patches, do you want some others to maintain? ;)
12:15<pavel1269>dih: yup
12:15<pavel1269>Wolf01: which one you mean? :D
12:16<reto_>pavel1269: { internet } -- { ADSL Router } -- { Your Computer } ?
12:16<Wolf01>i have some of my old patches if you want
12:16<pavel1269>reto_ yup
12:16<pavel1269>Wolf01: what kind of patches? :P
12:17<reto_>pavel1269: have you configured your router to forward that port the computer?
12:17<Wolf01>wait, i must browse the patches folder
12:17<pavel1269>thats why i can see on my FW incoming ... :(
12:17<dih>source andy, src port any, forward to your computers local ip, server port
12:17<dih>UDP and TCP
12:18<reto_>pavel1269: I was just able to establishe a tcp connection, so I guess thats correct
12:18<pavel1269>dih: dono on FW ... my router can forward both so ... done that too
12:18<reto_>to port
12:18<pavel1269>port? :o)
12:18<reto_>to port
12:19<pavel1269>but ... tahts all ...
12:19<reto_>perhaps the server browser uses udp :)
12:19<dih>pavel: what is your local computers ip?
12:19<reto_>I'm trying to add your ip address manually here in my client
12:19<dih>then you need to farward to
12:19<pavel1269>already done
12:20<reto_>pavel1269: gimme a sec
12:20<reto_>openttd says that you are offline.
12:20<dih>got a server running?
12:20<reto_>going to sniff what it is doing..
12:21<reto_>18:21:13.551729 IP > UDP, length: 3
12:21<reto_>18:21:13.616446 IP > UDP, length: 82
12:21<reto_>here we go! :)
12:21<reto_>thats kinda strange
12:22<reto_>pavel1269: do you forward UDP as well?
12:22<Wolf01>uhm, since you already updated both the drag&drop purchase land and daylength, i still have the title screen random movement, the show catchement areas, some new menu items like "new game" or "edit scenario" and new features for the transparency gui, but all need more work to be fully functional
12:22<dih>i'm in :-)
12:22<pavel1269>lol ...
12:22<reto_>pavel1269: I think
12:22<pavel1269>reto_ now tell me ... dih is loading map ...
12:23<dih>well - i used the command
12:23<dih>console command
12:23<reto_>I think your udp browsing is somehow borken:
12:23<reto_>look, tahts the browse traffic:
12:23<reto_>you see he asks from port 49531 to port 3979
12:24<reto_>and right after that I get an answer, from port 12096 to port 49531
12:24<reto_>but I bet the answer's source port should be 3979! :)
12:24<dih>davel: you mind me setting OpenTTDLib to query youer server?
12:25<reto_>pavel1269: on what port is openttd running on your local system?
12:25<pavel1269>reto_ if not 3979 then i dont know :)
12:25<dih>then it is 3979
12:25<reto_>pavel1269: can you start a sniffer?
12:25<reto_>and look what port he uses to send the udp answer?
12:25<reto_>network sniffer :)
12:26<dih>what for?
12:26<reto_>dih: I think the udp answer goes out with the wrong source port
12:26<reto_>dih: do you have a working server I could use to compare the network traffic?
12:26<pavel1269>18:24 <dih> davel: you mind me setting OpenTTDLib to query youer server? <--- why not? :P
12:27<reto_>going to use one from the openttd site :)
12:27<dih>connection timed out
12:27<pavel1269>dont choose marteens ... bad ping
12:27<dih>are you _sure_ you are forwarding UDP to the same ip and port?
12:28<pavel1269>dih: i can't choose UDP or TCP ...
12:28<pavel1269>jus tip and port
12:28<dih>then open up everything
12:28<pavel1269>but i am recieving lot of UDP traffic on 3979 ...
12:28<reto_>I've got an example
12:28<dih>oh really?
12:29<dih>your computer is or your router is?
12:29<dih>and does your pc's firewall block udp 3979?
12:29<reto_>no dih
12:30<pavel1269>oops, now yes :D
12:30<reto_>see, the first snippet is pavel1269's server, answer gets back from the wrong source udp port
12:30<pavel1269>i removed rule ^^
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12:30<reto_>second is another server which answers using port 3981
12:30<dih>reto_ have a look at ^^
12:32<dih>i used that tool to query pavel's server
12:32<reto_>dih: yes, pavels server is answering, perhaps some tools accept that answer in some cases
12:32<reto_>the problem is pavels server is answering on a differneport
12:33<reto_>pavel1269: what kind of router do you have?
12:33<pavel1269>whats brand? :D
12:33<dih>pavel: quit the server, and have a look in your openttd.cfg file it is useing
12:33<pavel1269>dih: what exactly do you want?
12:34<reto_>who's the vendor of that router? linksys?
12:34<dih>in your config file is a section for network
12:34<dih>in there you have server_port
12:34<dih>and such
12:34<dih>and bind_ip
12:34<dih>values of those 2 would be good
12:34<pavel1269>server_port = 3979
12:34<pavel1269>server_bind_ip =
12:34-!-Lego- [~Miranda@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:34<pavel1269>connect_to_ip =
12:35<dih>reto_: if he forwards from his router to 3979 and the server accepts, there is no reason to answer from another port
12:35<reto_>dih: I don't think his openttd server answers on a different port
12:35<dih>thank you pavel
12:35<reto_>dih: I guess the router rewrites the address incorrectly
12:35<pavel1269>dih: is that okay?
12:35<dih>would not make sense reto
12:36<pavel1269>yxel Prestige 660RU-T3
12:36<dih>that is a good make
12:37<reto_>pavel1269: can you make a screenshot of your nat config?
12:37<reto_>that would be grat
12:40<pavel1269>mom, i dont remember how i get to my router ^^
12:40<Gonozal_VIII>you should draw a map
12:41<reto_>pavel1269: check your ip config, try to access the gateway's ip address using your borwser
12:42<reto_>usually its something like
12:42<pavel1269>i have it :P
12:47<dih>pavel: how about redirecting _all ports_ for a jiffy?
12:47<reto_>pavel1269: try to replace 3979 with 0 in the first column
12:47<reto_>so 0 to 3979
12:47<reto_>no wait
12:47<pavel1269>i tryed and i can do taht again ... 80,21 is blocked so, np :)
12:47<reto_>thats a port range
12:48<reto_>nevermind then
12:48-!-mindlesstux [~mindlesst@2001:470:1f07:16c:240:f4ff:fe52:a74e] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:50<pavel1269>i have installed wireshack, what now ? :)
12:51<pavel1269>and forwarded all ports :)
12:51<Wolf01>there is anybody who had/has problems loading newgrfs on mac osx?
12:52-!-mindlesstux [~mindlesst@2001:470:1f07:16c:240:f4ff:fe52:a74e] has joined #openttd
12:52<reto_>pavel1269: im afk for 5 minutsre
12:53<dih>Wolf01: i have ppc, use os 10.4
12:53<dih>and the openttdcoop grf pack
12:53<pavel1269>server up ...
12:53<dih>no joy
12:54<dih>is the 'advertise' setting on?
12:55<Wolf01>the problem is in the integrated grf gui, seem that it can't find anything on /data
12:55<reto_>pavel1269: does it work now?
12:55<pavel1269>test :)
12:55<reto_>gimme a sec
12:56<reto_>no, I think it doesn't work yet
12:56<reto_>dih: can you confirm?
12:56<dih>try it yourself, as long as your ip does not change ^^
12:57<reto_>I have tried
12:57<reto_>ah, using this side
12:57<dih>error message is hidden in the html code
12:57<reto_>pavel1269: okay, wanna try to create a short network dump using wireshark?
12:57<dih>it's a comment, int error number, line after that string message
12:57<pavel1269>lets do that :P
12:57<reto_>let me get a copy of it
12:58-!-Gonozal_VIII [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:58<pavel1269>copy of wireshark? :)
12:58<reto_>pavel1269: I haven't installied it at themoment :)
12:59<pavel1269>sry for my bad english :/
13:00<reto_>no problem :)
13:00<reto_>It'll take me a minute or so to get it running :)
13:02<pavel1269>User Datagram Protocol, Src Port: smwan (3979), Dst Port: 4269 (4269)
13:03<pavel1269>User Datagram Protocol, Src Port: smwan (3979), Dst Port: 63627 (63627)
13:03<pavel1269>User Datagram Protocol, Src Port: smwan (3979), Dst Port: jediserver (2406)
13:03<pavel1269>jediserver? :D
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13:05<reto_>pavel1269: do a filter on 'host:'
13:06<reto_>pavel1269: i can guide you step by step in a seocnd
13:06<reto_>pavel1269: start wireshark
13:07<reto_>pavel1269: select capture -> options
13:07<reto_>(it gets a bit noisy in here now) sory
13:07<reto_>pavel1269: in captur efilter you type host
13:07<reto_>without the ""
13:07<reto_>ensure that you have elected the correct network interface in the drop down meu
13:08<reto_>select start
13:08<reto_>you should now see a empty screen :)
13:08<reto_>okay, first, lets try a tcp connection
13:08-!-Tino|Home is now known as TinoM
13:08<reto_>now a few items should belisted
13:08<pavel1269>3 packets? on connect 2 on disconnect :P
13:09<reto_>okay, now the openttd browser
13:09<reto_>just wait
13:09<reto_>how you should have gotten some traffic
13:09<reto_>select capture stop
13:10<reto_>then select file->save
13:10<reto_>to save the dump
13:10<reto_>save the dump and send me the copy later, but keep wireshark open
13:10<reto_>you can now examine the network traffic
13:10<reto_>the first five or so packets should be the tcp connection
13:11<reto_>then there should be some udp package
13:11<reto_>both incoming and outoging
13:11<reto_>okay, wanna mail it to me, or rather uplaod it?
13:12<reto_>you can also check for yourself, the udp traffic should look like:
13:12<reto_>reto:X to pavel:3979 (thats the incoming)
13:12<reto_>and then
13:12<reto_>pavel:3979: to reto:X
13:12<reto_>thats the outgoing
13:12<pavel1269>check it yourself :)
13:13<pavel1269>but, yeah
13:13<reto_>you see, on your side it looks correct
13:14<reto_>but from the outside, it looks like:
13:14<reto_>so your router is as far s I can see responsible for all the trouble you have :)
13:14<pavel1269>grrr :)
13:14<pavel1269>but this is not with port forwarding or yes?
13:15<reto_>that looks like a not-working portforwarding :/
13:16<pavel1269>i dont understand what r u posting, so you dont have to do that :))
13:16<reto_>do what?
13:16<pavel1269>posting that strange :P things
13:17<pavel1269>better, what repair, what check
13:17<reto_>:) sorry about that then
13:17<pavel1269>nvm ;)
13:17<reto_>pavel1269: can you go to the upnp settings on your router
13:17<reto_>and make anther screenshot?
13:17<reto_>or just write what you can configure there? if it isnt much
13:18<pavel1269>Enable the Universal Plug and Play(UPnP) Service
13:18<pavel1269>Allow users to make configuration changes through UPnP
13:18<reto_>is it enabled?
13:18<reto_>that really suck
13:18<pavel1269>both unchecked
13:18-!-Vikthor [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:19<reto_>dih: what do you think? should he try to to activate that? is openttd even using UPnP
13:19<reto_>pavel1269: what about 'security'?
13:19<pavel1269>it ottd using SNMP?
13:20<pavel1269>reto_: all unchecked except ... SNMP traffic is blocked from the WAN, thats checked
13:20<reto_>pavel1269: are there different pages under 'NAT' or just the one you showed us?
13:21<pavel1269> Network Address Translation
13:21<pavel1269> None
13:21<pavel1269> SUA Only Edit Details
13:21<pavel1269> Full Feature Edit Details
13:21<pavel1269>i have checked SUA only
13:21<reto_>okay, can you show us full features?
13:21<pavel1269>it dont want show me ... i will have to check that .... will my internet work then? :)
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13:22<reto_>perhaps the other forwarded service will stop working
13:22<reto_>the one on 50572
13:24-!-pavel1269 [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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13:26<pavel1269>was you sure ? :D
13:26<LA[lord]>pavel1269 has left (Read error: Connection reset by peer) >>> looool
13:26<reto_>I'm really sorry :)
13:27<reto_>I'm not sure anymore
13:27<reto_>pavel1269: I'm reading your routers manual
13:27<reto_>pavel1269: I'm not sure if the full feature mode will help
13:27-!-dns [~budbot@] has joined #openttd
13:27<reto_>I doubt it
13:27<dih>later ladies
13:27<pavel1269>i made screenies while i was "there"
13:27<dih>a little fun for you?
13:28<dih>search for "question: when i click build many random" on and read from there on ^^
13:28-!-dih [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
13:29<reto_>pavel1269: I'm running out of ideas
13:29<reto_>pavel1269: to be honest
13:29<reto_>pavel1269: let me see if a friend of mine is online who got some experience with zyxel
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13:34*SmatZ prefers One-to-One
13:35<Draakon>uh what? dam me i forgot IRC running while playing BF2 :D
13:36<reto_>pavel1269: could you see what firmware you are running?
13:37<pavel1269>where? :)
13:37<Forked>that looks like a zyxel interface
13:38<Forked>oh, doh.. it says so a bit up
13:38<pavel1269>ZyNOS F/W Version: V3.40(ANG.0) | 03/17/2006
13:38<pavel1269>thats it? :)
13:38<pavel1269>DSL FW Version:DMT FwVer:, HwVer: T14F7_0.0
13:38<Forked>whats the goal? forward port(s)?
13:38<pavel1269>run server :)
13:39<reto_>Forked: tcp gets forwarded correclty, udp gets forwarded broken
13:39<reto_>the zyxel config looks correct, I have no idea whats wrong
13:40<reto_>pavel1269: prestige-660Ru-t3 right?
13:40<pavel1269>System Name: P660RU-T3_T7
13:40<reto_>pavel1269: I've read through the firmware changelogs, I couldn't see an entry that would suggest that such a bug was fixed
13:41<reto_>plus a firmware update is risky, so I don't want to suggest that, it somehow sounds too extreme :(
13:41<pavel1269>sure? :D
13:41<pavel1269>To upgrade the internal router firmware, browse to the location of the binary (.BIN) upgrade file and click UPLOAD. .... no more actions :))
13:42<reto_>pavel1269: hm..
13:42<reto_>look, there's a slight chance it might be the solution, but I'm far from being sure
13:42<reto_>I might be compelty on the wrong track..
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13:49<reto_>pavel1269: I'm EOUTOFIDEAS
13:49<reto_>pavel1269: I'm sorry
13:50<pavel1269>hmm, ty anyway
13:50<pavel1269>at least you found where problem is
13:50<reto_>I think I have found it
13:50<reto_>should I try to explain the dump I've showed you several times?
13:52<pavel1269>4. [BUG FIXED]
13:52<pavel1269>Symptom: Packets routing form WAN to LAN are duplicate.
13:52<pavel1269>5. [BUG FIXED]
13:52<pavel1269>Symptom: IP source address is translated to zero by NAT, if destination IP address is
13:52<pavel1269>multicast group.
13:52<pavel1269>should it be sometzhing like this?
13:55<reto_>i dont think so
13:55<reto_>pavel1269: here some explanations:
13:55<reto_>please ask if something is still not clear
13:57<pavel1269>why my server send info to other ports? :D
13:58<reto_>pavel1269: nono, it uses different port for sending
13:59<reto_>from: Reto to Pavel: Hey, do you have a server??
13:59<reto_>from: Joe to Reto: yes, I've got a game running here
13:59<reto_>correct would be:
13:59<reto_>From Pavel to Reto
13:59<reto_>... well whatever :)
14:00<reto_>pavel1269: but the network dump in your lan showed us that it is still correct on your system
14:00<pavel1269>reto_: so lets say to Joe, to not distrupt our communication :D
14:00<reto_>well, Pavel is shizophrenic
14:00<reto_>he he thinks he is joe
14:00<reto_>for some reason :)
14:01<pavel1269>what if i will turn off NAT? :)
14:01*ben_goodger pokes with the psychiatric pedancy stick - reto_ is referring to multiple personality syndrome as opposed to schizophrenia
14:02<pavel1269>schizophrenic see ppl who doesnt exist, right?
14:02<reto_>pavel1269: look here:
14:02<pavel1269>so reto is schizophrenic since he see joe :D
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14:02<reto_>pavel1269: the config screen looks different :(
14:02<ben_goodger>actually I believe they hear voices in the head during psychotic episodes as opposed to hallucinating visually
14:03<ben_goodger>but meh
14:03<pavel1269>update firmware?
14:03<reto_>pavel1269: hmm I think its a different router
14:04<reto_>pavel1269: can you check, perhaps there somewhere a setting which enables an 'advanced user mode' or something like that :)
14:04<pavel1269>true that one is HW i have RU
14:07<reto_>I won't buy zyxel anymore
14:07<reto_>I've got a good linksys router
14:09<Forked>the 660ru-t3 is such a good modem too :\
14:10<Forked>it's my favourite adsl2 modem
14:10<pavel1269>help me ...
14:11<Forked>so under SUA .. just picking the port and selecting udp (can you do tcp+udp?) doesn't work?
14:11-!-Draakon [] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.79 [Firefox]]
14:13<pavel1269>Forked: where is that UDP?
14:14<Forked>actually thats an excellent question. Tried telnet to it?
14:15<reto_>pavel1269: yeah, thats another idea
14:15<reto_>pavel1269: zyxel has a second configuration interface
14:15<reto_>pavel1269: Start->Run 'telnet'
14:15<reto_>pavel1269: Start->Run cmd
14:15<reto_>then type in telnet <ip of your router>
14:15<pavel1269>so what?
14:15<pavel1269>good :)
14:15<reto_>perhaps you can configure more on the telnet gui :)
14:16<reto_>did I mention that I don't like zyxel.. ah.. yes I think I did :)
14:16<Forked>sure beats tilgin
14:16<reto_>got onto the telnet gui?
14:17<pavel1269>"same" as in internet browser in NAT :D
14:17<reto_>alright :8
14:18<Forked>sec, asking a co-worker now .. he has that modem (we both work at our ISP..)
14:19<reto_>Forked: have you seen
14:19<reto_>Forked: both tcpdumps from before and after the router
14:19<reto_>Forked: plus some explanations :)
14:19<Forked>in a few seconds.. hang on
14:19<reto_>would be great if we could find that bug :)
14:20<Forked>sort of trying to get drunk here
14:20<reto_>soudns like a great idea too :)
14:20-!-mindlesstux [~mindlesst@2001:470:1f07:16c:240:f4ff:fe52:a74e] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:20<pavel1269>what? give some beer to my router? :D
14:20-!-Arbitrary [] has joined #openttd
14:20<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r11819 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix: do not access the Vehicle struct that has been already deleted when removing crashed train
14:23<Forked>reto_: hmm, thats a bit beyond me, sorry. I just like that modem :\
14:23<Forked>err wait
14:23<Forked>is the computer ?
14:23<pavel1269>so what? some bug is in my modem eating sth? ^^
14:23<Eddi|zuHause2>i'd have said "has already been"... which one is more "correct" english?
14:23<pavel1269>Forked: yup
14:23<Forked>huh, strange setup
14:24<Forked>gw at 254? :)
14:24<pavel1269>? :)
14:24<reto_>what ip has your router?
14:24<reto_>hmm.. shouldn't be a problem, just a bit unusual
14:25<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r11820 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix: invalidate depot window when removing crashed train
14:25<Eddi|zuHause2>if you have a feeling you need a private class A network ;)
14:25<peter__>classes schmasses
14:25<pavel1269>class A ... that whan i am learning at school atm ... that sux hard :)
14:26<Eddi|zuHause2>anyway, what about the english?
14:26<Eddi|zuHause2>pavel1269 has really bad english ;)
14:26<pavel1269>no, thats joe!
14:26<Forked>doesn't really matter, I'm really crap at chinese :)
14:27<reto_>well, what about the german english accent Eddi|zuHause2 :)
14:27<Eddi|zuHause2>it's not like you actually hear my accent ;)
14:27<reto_> :)
14:28<Eddi|zuHause2>my question was which one is better... "has been already" or "has already been"
14:28<Forked>pavel1269: sorry, I don't know whats wrong.. from what I got from my co-worker it forwards both tcp and udp ports when you do it as seen in nat.png
14:28<reto_>i'd use the latter, but I think it depends on the context
14:28<Eddi|zuHause2>(i believe both are valid)
14:29<reto_>"No, the system has already been installed"
14:29<Eddi|zuHause2>i have hardly ever heard arnold schwarzenegger speaking actually...
14:29<reto_>Eddi|zuHause2: well, the movie is not thaat
14:30<Eddi|zuHause2>he doesn't speak himself in the german translation of the movies
14:30<Eddi|zuHause2>he has a weird austrian dialect ;)
14:30<Eddi|zuHause2>everybody would just laugh at him :p
14:30<Eddi|zuHause2>the first page is still loading...
14:31<reto_>hmm got some problems yes
14:32-!-Mucht [] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
14:32<reto_>perhaps that one works:
14:33<Eddi|zuHause2>my connection is not exactly the fastest...
14:33<pavel1269>any crazy idea to solve my problem? :/
14:33<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r11821 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r11802): 'optimization assert' when removing crashed wagon in some cases
14:34<Eddi|zuHause2>i only know the "interpretation" of various american comedians, who often parodise arnolds accent
14:34<Eddi|zuHause2>e.g. Conan o'Brien
14:35<pavel1269>Forked: may firmware update help?
14:36<Forked>pavel1269: it might, but only do so if you know what you're doing :)
14:36<pavel1269>well ... there is only ... upload .bin file ... nohink else :P
14:37<Forked>true :) as long as it doesn't mess with the modems config
14:37<Forked>brb, gonna see if I get fluxbox running
14:44<Born_Acorn>Imma spyin on you all.
14:44<Tefad>is the accent viewed similarly to how americans view southern accents?
14:47<Eddi|zuHause2>it's worse... because it's not accents but grown up dialects ;)
14:47<Born_Acorn>Wow, I haven't connected to here in yonks. I've got a "new" message from March 2007
14:47<LA[lord]>how come?
14:48<Tefad>Eddi|zuHause2: hmm k
14:49<Eddi|zuHause2>Tefad: if people start to talk in their local dialect, you have absolutely no chance to understand them
14:49<Gonozal_VIII>wia moansd des?
14:49<LA[lord]>Oeh... I updated two first posts at one thread any it took me almost an hour... Kinda creepy
14:49<Eddi|zuHause2>which does not need to be a north-south difference... in Thüringen you have neighbouring villages that won't understand each other ;)
14:51<Eddi|zuHause2>but with increasing flexibility and over-regional communication that effect gets less over the years
14:51*LA[lord] wants to do something
14:52<Eddi|zuHause2>e.g. the northern "low/flat-german" slowly disappears
14:52<Gonozal_VIII>flat german^^
14:52<Eddi|zuHause2>it's a direct translation
14:52<Gonozal_VIII>i know
14:53<Gonozal_VIII>direct translations are teh funniez
14:53<Eddi|zuHause2>it's not even a translation, it's just a sound-shift
14:53<SmatZ>LA[lord]: you may try to fix :-)
14:54<Eddi|zuHause2>you have that same shift in "apfel" vs. "apple"
14:54<Eddi|zuHause2>(although the other way round ;))
14:54<Gonozal_VIII>wow :P
14:55<pavel1269>SmatZ: :D
14:55<LA[lord]>SmatZ: Yea, sure... It'd take me atleast five years.. 3 learning C++, one understanding OpenTTD's code and one year fixing the bug and creating several others...
14:56<Gonozal_VIII>i want to file a bug report for that bug report!
14:56<pavel1269>LA: so help me :)
14:56<Ammler>pavel1269: is your router "problem" fixed? I guess its because you need 3978 for the advertising server, the gui might route both types
14:56<Gonozal_VIII>it doesn't have a screenshot
14:56<pavel1269>Ammler: no, i will try :(
14:56<Ammler>!openttd port
14:57<@DorpsGek>Gonozal_VIII: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication and UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound)
14:57<LA[lord]>pavel1269: Help you in what?
14:57<UnderBuilder>!openttd ports
14:57<Ammler>[20:57] <_42_> Ammler: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication and UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advsertise) communication (outbound)
14:57<pavel1269>well ... MS see me :D
14:57<Ammler>ah well DorpsGek can it too
14:58<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r11822 /trunk/src/ (38 files in 2 dirs):
14:58<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Codechange: Replaced fixed size custom name array. Names are now attached to their object directly and there is
14:58<CIA-1>OpenTTD: no limit to the amount of names.
14:58<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix: NewGRF engines could not be renamed.
14:59<LA[lord]>pavel1269: what?? didn't get a bit out of that sentence (although tried, tried hard..)
14:59<Eddi|zuHause2>he said "the masterserver does see me" [meaning outbound UDP works]
15:00<Gonozal_VIII>i joined his server :-)
15:00<Gonozal_VIII>not now... but back then in the days of old
15:00<Eddi|zuHause2>that's a way too uncryptic commit message ;)
15:00<pavel1269>now ... MS doesnt see me ...
15:01<pavel1269>wtf ...
15:01<LA[lord]>you are correct :D
15:01<LA[lord]>I just tried to see your server
15:02<LA[lord]>pavel1269> LA: so help me :) >>>> help you in what?
15:02*LA[lord] is bored
15:02<pavel1269>to get my server working ...
15:04<pavel1269>with opened 3978 its broken ^^
15:04<LA[lord]>aah.. You have to get xmera program, download the second addon from the list, put the 'rain' value to 0, 'grem=f667' and reset the router. Then add the patch which helps you and there you go
15:05<Gonozal_VIII>du musst zuerst den nippel durch die lasche ziehn...
15:05<LA[lord]>the site to get xmera:
15:05<pavel1269>jiste, kazdej si tu bude mluvit svou reci ... ze jo SmatZ ...
15:05<pavel1269>LA[lord]: ?????????????????????????????????????
15:05<pavel1269>chinese? :)
15:06<LA[lord]>japanese I guess...
15:06<LA[lord]>it's with .jp ending
15:06<LA[lord]>the tenth answer in google for xmera
15:07<Gonozal_VIII>(that was part of a song that's about a long series of complicated actions to perform a simple task)
15:08<LA[lord]> /why to do it the simple way, if you cando it the hard way?/
15:08<LA[lord]>can do*
15:10<Ammler>Hi, is it anyhow possible to "preview" the GRF Slots/Groups? (having different GRFs loaded)
15:11<LA[lord]>like these are train grfs and these industry etc.?
15:11<Ammler>nope, like using DBSet and UKRS at same time
15:12<Eddi|zuHause2>what do you mean "preview"?
15:12<Ammler>is there a patch available?
15:12<LA[lord]>you can use them at the same time... I guess it was peter__ who made that patch
15:12<LA[lord]>I don't have the link though
15:12<Eddi|zuHause2>you know peter__'s patches are always secret ;)
15:13<LA[lord]>but he gave a link yesterday
15:13<LA[lord]>IIRC Draakon even compiled them
15:13<SpComb>Logs: (old: )
15:13<Ammler>hmm, not availalbe
15:13<LA[lord]>try older one
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15:17<LA[lord]>I think it's this patch.. not sure though
15:19<LA[lord]>!!! !!! all generous guys, take a look there
15:20<ln->you have exceeded your exclamation mark quota for today.
15:21<pavel1269>who? :)
15:21<pavel1269>ln is bot or human? :P
15:21<Forked>with a minute and two seconds responsetime.. I hope "it's" human
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15:22*LA[lord] can't use flipped iiiiiii - s anymore :(
15:23<Born_Acorn>They count, that'll be 32.44, thank you.
15:24<Born_Acorn>Just because they're upside-down doesn't mean they're not exclamation marks!
15:24*orudge throws an interrobang at Born_Acorn
15:24*Born_Acorn dies
15:27<LA[lord]>orudge: Sorry I can't donate myself, but I atleast advertised that thread here :P.. And lost !-mark quota for today :(
15:27<@orudge>oh, that was my thread you linked to? heh, didn't notice that
15:27<@orudge>OpenTTD itself tends to receive a fairly steady stream of donations
15:27<@orudge>but the forums do not
15:27<@orudge>maybe OpenTTD would like to donate to the forums? ;)
15:28<Born_Acorn>I've tried starting it with the commandline -donate, but alas
15:29<LA[lord]>./openttd -donate 20£ -paypal owen_rudge
15:30<LA[lord]>this should do the trick...
15:30<pavel1269>la: are you still bored or you are thinking how "repair" my router? :P
15:31<peter__>Born_Acorn! newdonations!
15:31<Born_Acorn>I cannot!
15:31<Born_Acorn>[20:22:01] <Born_Acorn> and alas, my moneys level is loooow
15:31<Born_Acorn>ie £5.00 in the bank!
15:31<LA[lord]>pavel1269: I already told you how...
15:31<Born_Acorn>With more than 10 days till payday!
15:32<pavel1269>rly? where?
15:32<LA[lord]>LA[lord]> aah.. You have to get xmera program, download the second addon from the list, put the 'rain' value to 0, 'grem=f667' and reset the router. Then add the patch which helps you and there you go >>> if that doesn't work, I can't help you
15:32<LA[lord]>rly, I can't help you, sorry
15:33<LA[lord]>which means I'm still bored..
15:36<LA[lord]>that's a record, the 8bpp replacement thread has not had any replies for 4 hours straight :O
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15:37<Desolator>heelo folks
15:37<LA[lord]>hello Desolator
15:40<ln->aaaaargh, yet another lwaxana troi episode.
15:40<Desolator>Could you recommend me a relatively lightweight IDE, or at least a powerful source-code editor? I'm currently using MS VC++ 2k5 Express, but I don't like it much because it takes forever to load some simple windows and is missing some highlighting (operators, etc.). I looked at Code::Blocks, but I like VC++'s tooltips, I hover over a type and see how it is defined, this is very useful with the W32 API.
15:41<ln->Desolator: FTE is the best text editor on the planet. but IDE it is not, just a text editor.
15:48-!-stillunknown [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:48<LA[lord]>good night!
15:49<Born_Acorn>Strange, grain trains aren't unloading properly at their destination
15:49-!-LA[lord] [] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.79 [Firefox]]
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15:50<Born_Acorn>They empty one or two wagons and then leave
15:51<peter__>does the destination accept more grain?
15:52<Born_Acorn>Accept more?
15:53<Born_Acorn>Has there been a change to the factories?
15:53<Desolator>Ammler: I'll be doing Windows Development on Windows to have it integrated smoothly.
15:54<Desolator>Born_Acorn: Peter can't know if you have some NI GRFs loaded or not ;)
15:54-!-Frostregen [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
15:54<Born_Acorn>There's no newindustries at all, just your normal ones
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15:57<Desolator>LinCity :P
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16:00<Ammler>peter__: anything viewable of your current work?
16:01<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r11823 /trunk/src/ (engine.h oldloader.cpp): -Fix (r11822): Custom names from old TTD games were not updated.
16:04-!-Guest2932 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:04<@orudge>SimCity source released, funky
16:05<Desolator>Why do you guys mix .h with .hpp in the OTTD source?
16:05<+glx>KUDr started to add hpp IIRC
16:06<Desolator>even more confusing: yapf.h AND yaph.hpp in the same dir
16:08<peter__>Ammler, viewable?
16:09<peter__> < patch for head
16:09<Ammler>and playable :)
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16:12<Desolator>www...wwwwww....wwwhhhaaattt? multiple sets running at the same time? :D
16:13<Ammler>peter__: anything to do or just including 2 engine GRFs?
16:13<peter__>patch dynamic_engines 1
16:13<peter__>before starting a game, heh
16:14<Desolator>so basically you solved the issue with vehicle ids?
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16:25<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r11824 /trunk/src/oldloader.cpp: -Fix (r11822): Converting signs from TTD games incomplete
16:29<Ammler>peter__: thats really cool!
16:29<Ammler>also callbacks seems to work fine :)
16:30<Ammler>but maybe a group possibitly on the buy window would be fine, else you will have a really big list :)
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16:36<Ammler>oh peter, don't forget the default set... :-)
16:40<Ammler>well, thats a alternative :-)
16:41<Ammler>how about RVs?
16:43<pavel1269>wow, simcity is one of best games :(
16:50<pavel1269>ottd is better :P
16:51<hylje>ottd sucks
16:52<SmatZ>hylje hylje don't you like ottd?
16:52<Ammler>SmatZ: do you?
16:53<SmatZ>Ammler: of course
16:53<Ammler>I like the patch from peter
16:54<pavel1269>ottd dont like me :(
16:58<pavel1269>and i was trying to be nice :)
17:02<Ammler>pavel1269: still problems with NAT?
17:02-!-Desolator [Desolator@] has quit []
17:03<Ammler>your local maschine has no firewall?
17:03<pavel1269>and i dont whink i will solve that in near future(untill i will smash this modem with hammer)
17:03-!-Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
17:03<pavel1269>i have fw
17:03<Sacro>now why am i not on this channel :\
17:04<pavel1269>but watching packets show that recieving/sendon is okay
17:04<Ammler>Sacro: because you like ottd?
17:04-!-Andel [] has joined #openttd
17:04<pavel1269>but sending ... if you watch from outside is broken
17:05<Ammler>did you try with telnet?
17:06<pavel1269>what to try?
17:06<Ammler>to opent UDP
17:06<SpComb>oh dear, Andel's here
17:06<pavel1269>Ammler: there is same as in browser ... :(
17:06-!-bumblebee [] has joined #openttd
17:06<Ammler>not possible to choose protocol?
17:07<pavel1269>if i dont have opened port, how is possible that i am recieving packets?
17:07<Ammler>did you google for your router and UDP?
17:07<pavel1269>*recieving from that port
17:09<@orudge>Sacro: we're not moving just yet... :p
17:10<Sacro>orudge: well 2 of us already have
17:10<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11825 /trunk/src/roadveh_cmd.cpp: -Fix (FS#1627): an articulated road vehicle could split up when it turned around at a corner and then would enter a drive through station at the next tile.
17:10<@orudge>Sacro: yes, well, you'll be missing out all of the goings-on on proper #tycoon :P
17:10<@orudge>there won't be an official move any time soon
17:10<@orudge>as in, tonight
17:10<Sacro>orudge: i'll straddle the pair
17:10<@orudge>as I'll be doing at least a 24-hour survey
17:11<Sacro>but then there's still 4 people on #openttd on freenode!
17:11<@orudge>I've not been in freenode for yonks
17:12<Sacro>i am in a few channels there
17:13*Prof_Frink is in one quakenet, one oftc, four freenode and three blitzed
17:14<pavel1269>Ammler: i am thinking about firmware update ... what do you think? :P
17:14-!-peter__ is now known as peter1138
17:15<Prof_Frink>Yay! peter1138 is back in business!
17:15-!-mode/#openttd [+o peter1138] by ChanServ
17:15<Ammler>pavel1269: did you read that on a html page?
17:16<Ammler>about needing for upgrading firmware?
17:16<pavel1269>everyone just forward ports as i did and okay ...
17:17<Ammler>I had never a router without possibilty to choose from TCP and UDP
17:19<Ammler>or if I had, UDP was same
17:20<@peter1138>implement upnp support? :D
17:21<@peter1138>i think that should do it
17:21<Sacro>pavel1269: i recognise that router
17:21<Sacro>we use Zxyel ones at work
17:21-!-Prof_Frink is now known as ProfFrink
17:21-!-Sacro is now known as Prof_Frinl
17:21-!-Prof_Frinl is now known as Prof_Frink
17:22<pavel1269>lets try :)
17:23-!-bumblebee [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:23-!-Prof_Frink is now known as Guest2944
17:23-!-ProfFrink is now known as Prof_Frink
17:23<Guest2944>pavel1269: what are you trying to do?
17:23-!-Guest2944 is now known as Sacro
17:23<pavel1269>to get working server ...
17:23<ln->just for the record, i'm not there
17:23<Sacro>did you open the port in the firewall? W->L section
17:23<Sacro>ln-: good, cos I can't see you
17:24*Eddi|zuHause2 makes record
17:24<pavel1269>w->l ???
17:24<pavel1269>peter1138: upnp didnt help ;)
17:25<Sacro>pavel1269: wan -> lan
17:25<Sacro>or DMZ the whole thing, but make sure you have a good firewal
17:25*Sacro recalls that he does't have a firewall :o
17:25<@peter1138>pavel1269, of course not, openttd doesn't do it
17:25<pavel1269><- kerio
17:26<pavel1269>firewall ... no FW on router .. on pc, allowed for OTTD
17:26<Sacro>we could implement libuPNP
17:26<Forked>Sacro: doesn't really work if you have more than one computer behind the router, or does it? I've never tried.. say you have one WAN IP .. and you DMZ one computer.. does the router then forward all ports to ocmputer1 while computer 2 and 3 can still use the mighty internet?
17:26<Sacro>pavel1269: are you sure the router doesn't have one?
17:26<Sacro>Forked: yes
17:27<pavel1269>at least i cant setup it ...
17:27<Sacro>i have my desktop as DMZ
17:27<Sacro>but i forward 22,80,443 to my server
17:28<pavel1269>what if i have FW on router? how can i acces him?
17:28-!-Andel [] has quit [Quit: Caught signal 15, Terminated]
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17:29<ln->where is the Bjarniest person of the channel?
17:29<Sacro>ln-: denmark
17:29<ln->most likely
17:29-!-Purno [] has quit [Quit: Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else.]
17:31-!-peter1138 is now known as petern
17:31<Forked>Sacro: so it forwards everything except those 3 ports to your desktop?
17:31<Sacro>Forked: yep
17:31<Forked>hm, nice
17:32<Forked>oh sweet, thanks for the update to the daylengt patch, pavel =)
17:32<pavel1269>heh, yw
17:38<Gonozal_VIII>not trunkify it
17:39<Gonozal_VIII>bad fingers type wrong words
17:40<Forked>meh, wont work with bilbos latest extra-large-maps
17:40<Forked>note to self: learn some basic coding
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17:41<pavel1269>wats wrong?
17:42<Forked>according to svn (and the compiler:) src/genworld_gui.cpp has changed in a way from rev 11781 to 11814 that the patch applied on rev 11781 messes things up
17:42<pavel1269>so update it ...
17:46<Forked>pavel1269: see, thats where I'm clueless (and useless) as of now =p
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17:55<Gonozal_VIII>the h goes first!
17:55<@petern>sacro is backwards :o
17:58<Gonozal_VIII>ha! sacro is multiple whales
17:58<@petern>you know what they say about whales, don't you?
17:59<Gonozal_VIII> <-- i found a picture of him
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18:05<Sacro>oh the heat
18:05*Sacro rubs his legs
18:07<ben_goodger>go southern hemisphere!
18:07<Gonozal_VIII>northern rules!
18:08<ben_goodger>well, I live in the north, but evidently sacro is either in an equatorial zone or the southern hemisphere
18:09<Gonozal_VIII>not really^^
18:09<ben_goodger>"oh the heat... /me rubs his legs" indicates warmth...
18:09-!-bumblebee [] has joined #openttd
18:10<ben_goodger>since it's mid-winter in the north, the location of heat is in the south
18:10<ben_goodger>additionally, the degree of heat is extreme
18:10<Gonozal_VIII>ah the heat thing.. he lives in a cardboard box and has a barrel where he burns stuff to heat himself... i guess he put too much stuff into the fire
18:10<ben_goodger>so I estimate that sacro is located in australia
18:10-!-jonisdead [] has joined #openttd
18:11<ben_goodger>and yet his whois says sverige
18:11<@petern>sacro's heating is several computers...
18:11<ben_goodger>go sweden, nonetheless
18:12<Prof_Frink>petern: They're whelsh?
18:12<ben_goodger>I'd like to move to norrköping, possibly
18:12<Andel>Sacro is defo not in Aussie
18:12<Andel>he is in a hot place though
18:12<@petern>not swedish
18:12<Andel>because where he is can be considered "Hell"
18:12<@petern>Prof_Frink, obviously
18:12<Gonozal_VIII>the australien part of hull
18:12<Andel>that would be it
18:13<ben_goodger>evidently I read IRC's whois data wrongly
18:13<ben_goodger>I cannot imagine anyone is warm in hull
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18:21<Sacro>ben_goodger: so where do you think i'm from?
18:21<Sacro>considering my ISP is only 1 city, 1 town and about half a dozen villages
18:22<ben_goodger>your whois says kingston-upon-hell
18:22<ben_goodger>I previously misread the IRC whois, the server being located in sweden
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18:32<Sacro>zomg, jonisdead
18:33<Gonozal_VIII>did not!
18:33<Sacro>Gonozal_VIII: he died in a car accident
18:33<Gonozal_VIII>ah ok
18:33<Sacro>that was paulisdead
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18:37<@DorpsGek>dih: latest: r11825
18:37<@DorpsGek>dih: Commit by rubidium :: r11825 trunk/src/roadveh_cmd.cpp (2008-01-12 22:10:00 UTC)
18:37<@DorpsGek>dih: -Fix (FS#1627): an articulated road vehicle could split up when it turned around at a corner and then would enter a drive through station at the next tile.
18:37<@DorpsGek>dih: Commit by peter1138 :: r11824 trunk/src/oldloader.cpp (2008-01-12 21:25:04 UTC)
18:37<@DorpsGek>dih: -Fix (r11822): Converting signs from TTD games incomplete
18:38<@DorpsGek>dih: Commit by peter1138 :: r11823 /trunk/src (engine.h oldloader.cpp) (2008-01-12 21:01:27 UTC)
18:38<@DorpsGek>dih: -Fix (r11822): Custom names from old TTD games were not updated.
18:38<@DorpsGek>dih: Commit by peter1138 :: r11822 /trunk/src (38 files in 2 dirs) (2008-01-12 19:58:06 UTC)
18:38<@DorpsGek>dih: -Codechange: Replaced fixed size custom name array. Names are now attached to their object directly and there is
18:38<@DorpsGek>dih: no limit to the amount of names.
18:38<@DorpsGek>dih: -Fix: NewGRF engines could not be renamed.
18:41<dih>thank you
18:43<Ammler>or even many RV sets
18:43<Sacro>i like this
18:43<dih>that is nice
18:43<dih>you needed a patch for that right?
18:44<Ammler>yes, peter posted it some time ago
18:44<dih>that is sweet
18:44<dih>so you could run narrow and standard gauge at the same time
18:44<dih>but then you would want to have to build different tracks too ^^
18:44<Ammler>[22:09] <peter__> < patch for head
18:45<Ammler>[22:13] <peter__> patch dynamic_engines 1
18:45<Gonozal_VIII>i have narrow gauge and standard gauge in my games
18:45<Gonozal_VIII>narrow gauge replace maglev
18:45<Ammler>dih: you can that already without this
18:45<Ammler>ie. you use normal rail for narrow and erail for normal
18:46<Ammler>or in serbianset you are using maglev for narrow gauge
18:46<Gonozal_VIII>yes, serbian set
18:46<dih>that was the one i was thinking
18:47<Ammler>parameter 4
18:47<Ammler>just read the GRF Table on our wiki page
18:48<Ammler>I know, I did that only for myself :)
18:48<Gonozal_VIII>i did lots of modifications to the narrow gauge grf to fit to newterrain and replace the autorail, depot and convert buttons/cursors too
18:48<Gonozal_VIII>but i couldn't get it to replace the strings
18:48<Gonozal_VIII>so it's still maglev construction...
18:49*petern hides his patches directory
18:49<Gonozal_VIII>but i don't care about that
18:50<@petern>also, bye
18:50<dih>your up late ^^
18:50-!-petern [~petern@] has quit [Quit: bwaaahahaha, te eeeh eeehee boingk!]
18:50<Gonozal_VIII>i also have newwater water combined with newterrain land and coast and modified stolen trees with growth states :-)
18:50-!-Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
18:52*dih waves good night to all
18:52<Ammler>gn all
18:52<Gonozal_VIII>was a lot of work combining all that stuff but it looks nice :-)
18:52-!-dih [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
18:53<Ammler>Gonozal_VIII: you share your work with the original authors?
18:54<Gonozal_VIII>hmm i didn't give it to others because i used their stuff... but you're right i should give it to them
18:55<Gonozal_VIII>hmm that's complicated, got stuff from a dozen different authoes combined in one grf
18:56<Ammler>complicated but doable
18:57<Ammler>or you could make thread and ask for permission...
18:57<Ammler>like I did for #openttdcoop grf pack
18:59<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm it only works in combination with other grfs that i modified
19:00<Ammler>you should know it self, if its worth to share... :)
19:01<Gonozal_VIII>well it works alone... but not the way it's intended to... like serbian narrow gauge won't activate because it's looking for the original narrow gauge grf
19:01<Gonozal_VIII>for me i removed that action 7 from the serbian narrow gauge grf
19:02<Gonozal_VIII>and the persistantengines warning^^
19:02<Ammler>original narrow gauge grf -> your mod -> serbian narrow gauge
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19:04<Eddi|zuHause2>hm... V140 get old really fast...
19:05<Eddi|zuHause2>not even any of my BR 38 got old yet...
19:05<Gonozal_VIII>i guess i'll start with trying to backtrace what i really included in the grf^^
19:05<Eddi|zuHause2>and i don't have any diesel engines to replace them yet...
19:09<Eddi|zuHause2>hmm... wagons attached to E 16 don't get dining cars :(
19:10<Eddi|zuHause2>it's about time version 0.9 gets released, i want an E 18 :(
19:10<Gonozal_VIII>i want newshipsxl
19:11<Ammler>hmm, I guess, would be also no problem with peters patch to use many different ships
19:12<Gonozal_VIII>and better ecs support for the ships
19:12<Eddi|zuHause2>without rivers, there is not a real use for ships
19:12<Gonozal_VIII>yes, rivers too, rivers are cool
19:12<Eddi|zuHause2>i am quite sure you could modify the dbxl_ecs.grf to work for the ships instead
19:13<Gonozal_VIII>really? cool
19:13<Gonozal_VIII>but i'm not good with the grf actions
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19:13<Gonozal_VIII>and dbxl_ecs doesn't work perfect either
19:14<Eddi|zuHause2>what do you mean with "perfect"?
19:14<Gonozal_VIII>no new wagon can transport sand
19:14<Gonozal_VIII>only the old lowside, not the new or the gondolas
19:14<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r11826 /trunk/src/music/dmusic.cpp: -Fix (r10444): at least one instance of dmusic driver is needed for it to be registered and usable
19:14<Eddi|zuHause2>hm, that should be easy to fix
19:15<Eddi|zuHause2>there is a bitmask for each wagon
19:15<Gonozal_VIII>just change a bitmask, that's all?
19:15<Gonozal_VIII>i guess i could try that
19:16<Eddi|zuHause2>the meaning of the bits is defined in the cargo translation table
19:16<Eddi|zuHause2>below that, there are the bitmasks for each wagon
19:16<Eddi|zuHause2>the vehicle ids are in the dbset readme, for reference
19:16<Gonozal_VIII>i use serbian rail set instead of dbset because it works much better with the ecs cargos...
19:17<Gonozal_VIII>didn't know that it was quite easy to change
19:17<Eddi|zuHause2>yeah, i once modified it to work with the PBI cargos
19:18<Gonozal_VIII>i guess i'll try to use dbset together with serbian narrow gauge and narrow gauge set to monorail :-)
19:19<Gonozal_VIII>and the new transrapid trackset for maglev
19:20<Eddi|zuHause2>in the dbxl_ecs.grf there is a line like
19:20<Eddi|zuHause2>00 08 01 20 00 09 "PASSCOALMAILOIL_[...]"
19:20<Eddi|zuHause2>each 4 letters define a cargo
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19:21<Eddi|zuHause2>then a few lines below there are lines like
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19:21<Eddi|zuHause2>00 00 01 01 [VehicleID] 1D [4 Byte Bitmask]
19:22<Gonozal_VIII>hmm doesn't seem to be too hard
19:22<Eddi|zuHause2>bit is set == vehicle can be refitted to that cargo
19:23<Eddi|zuHause2>a similar line, just for Feature = Ships should do for the newships
19:23<Gonozal_VIII>thanks for that information, i guess i'll have a few new things to do with that
19:24<Eddi|zuHause2>just don't get too confused with the byte and bit order ;)
19:25<Gonozal_VIII>the endianness is strange...
19:26<Eddi|zuHause2>it's not too strange
19:26<Eddi|zuHause2>if you decode each byte into bits with LSB in front, the bits have the same order as the cargo names
19:26<Gonozal_VIII>like 1000 = E8 03
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19:27<Eddi|zuHause2>so if you have like 25 04 00 80 you get 1010 0100 | 0010 0000 | 0000 0000 | 0000 0001
19:28-!-Wezz6400 [] has quit [Quit: ffs just nuke the planet, it's not like there's anything here worth preserving]
19:28<Eddi|zuHause2>meaning passengers, mail, goods, valuables, tourists
19:28<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11827 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: do not include enum_type.hpp unnecessary.
19:29<Gonozal_VIII>and i have no idea how you did that
19:29<Eddi|zuHause2>take each nibble, start with the least significant (5)
19:29<Eddi|zuHause2>5 (hex) = 0101 (bin)
19:30<Eddi|zuHause2>then you reverse that
19:30<Gonozal_VIII>ah just reversed
19:30<Gonozal_VIII>i thought so when i converted 80
19:31<Eddi|zuHause2>you can just decode reversed in the first place
19:31<Eddi|zuHause2>5 is not divisible by 2, so set 1
19:31<Gonozal_VIII>i used windows calculator
19:31<Eddi|zuHause2>substract 1, divide by 2
19:31<Eddi|zuHause2>2 is divisible by 2, so set 0
19:31<Eddi|zuHause2>divide by 2
19:31<Gonozal_VIII>set to hex, typed in 80, set to bin^^
19:31<Eddi|zuHause2>1 is not divisible by 2, so set 1
19:32<Eddi|zuHause2>substract 1, divide by 2
19:32<Eddi|zuHause2>0 is divisible by 2, so set 0
19:32<Gonozal_VIII>i know how to convert to bin...
19:32<Eddi|zuHause2>you get 1010
19:32<Gonozal_VIII>5 clicks are faster
19:33<Eddi|zuHause2>not if you can do it in your head, needs no clicks ;)
19:33<Gonozal_VIII>i'm not an authist that can do that faster than 4 clicks^^
19:33<Gonozal_VIII>(recounted the clicks, only 4)
19:33<Gonozal_VIII>see, i can't even count to 5
19:34<Gonozal_VIII>how should i do stuff like that in the head then?^^
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19:35<Eddi|zuHause2>it's just two operations... sub and shift...
19:35<Gonozal_VIII>aaand... try your method with hex numbers >9^^
19:35<Eddi|zuHause2>that is just a matter of getting used to
19:35<Eddi|zuHause2>you had to learn the small 1x1 once, too
19:36-!-DaleStan [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:36<Eddi|zuHause2>you just have a slightly bigger 1x1 ;)
19:36<Gonozal_VIII>EC divided by 2 is?
19:39<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm hex is based on powers of 2... there should be an easy way to divide by 2
19:39<Prof_Frink>Oh, by the way, INCOMING!
19:40<Eddi|zuHause2>Gonozal_VIII: you only need to check one digit
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19:40<Eddi|zuHause2>and after the first step, the number is below 9
19:40<Eddi|zuHause2>you just need to check if the number is odd or even
19:40<Gonozal_VIII>well e is odd, c is odd, odd and odd is even
19:41<Eddi|zuHause2>what does that have to do with this? each hex digit represents one nibble (4 bits) which you can calculate independently
19:42<Gonozal_VIII>i was looking for a fast way to do that odd even thing
19:42<Eddi|zuHause2>you can also start by substracting 8, and set the highest bit
19:42<Gonozal_VIII>with the number EC that i wrote before
19:42<Eddi|zuHause2>like i said, do it for C alone
19:43<Eddi|zuHause2>then do it for E alone
19:43<Eddi|zuHause2>they don't affect each other
19:44<Gonozal_VIII>[01:39:11] Gonozal_VIII: hmmm hex is based on powers of 2... there should be an easy way to divide by 2 <-- that's where that comes in
19:45<Eddi|zuHause2>yeah, and my very first sentence in the "algorithm" was: consider each nibble individually
19:46<Gonozal_VIII>i have no idea what nibbles are^^
19:46<Gonozal_VIII>i know tribbles..
19:46<Gonozal_VIII>they cause troubles
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20:02<Eddi|zuHause2>nibble is half a byte
20:03<Eddi|zuHause2>i.e. 4 bit or exactly one hex digit
20:04<Eddi|zuHause2>hah, finally V200 ;)
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20:05<Eddi|zuHause2>and a load of new wagons
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20:10<Eddi|zuHause2>hm... it's about time i electrify that route...
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20:16<Grew>guys I would just like to say congrats with the 0.6.0 beta, it works perfectly over my lan, and the internet and the new features work brilliantly :D
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20:17-!-robotboy is now known as roboboy
20:17-!-roboboy is now known as robotboy
20:20<Eddi|zuHause2>and once again the E 94 shows what it is worth ;)
20:21<Eddi|zuHause2>now if i only had an E 18 to go with the express trains...
20:22<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11828 /trunk/src/ (129 files in 8 dirs): -Codechange: include table/* as the last includes and remove an unneeded include from openttd.h.
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20:24<Lachie>sup brothers.
20:24<Eddi|zuHause2>some MB person is denying me E18, that's up
20:26<Eddi|zuHause2>long distance trains look bad without dining car
20:31-!-Eddi|zuHause3 [] has joined #openttd
20:31<Eddi|zuHause3>well, let's see how long until the E 10 then...
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20:32<Gonozal_VIII>hmm tracktype 02 is maglev?
20:32-!-_orudge_ is now known as orudge
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20:34<Eddi|zuHause3>hm, that i don't know...
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20:35<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm could be... if elrail is 03...
20:37<Rubidium>talking about newgrfs?
20:37<Rubidium>because then it's in the specs
20:37-!-Grewrules is now known as Grew
20:37<Rubidium>there is no specific tracktype for elrail
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20:38<Gonozal_VIII>i don't need elrail anyways
20:38<Gonozal_VIII>wanted to get a narrow gauge vehicle from maglev to monorail... changed 02 to 01 and it works so that seems to be right :-)
20:39<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11829 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Feature: allow reloading openttd.cfg when starting a new game on a dedicated server. Patch by dihedral.
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20:46<Gonozal_VIII>well that was easy...
20:46<SpComb>and as a piece of relevant info, the #tycoon channel on Quakenet has moved to OFTC
20:46<SpComb>(seeing as noone else had mentioned it)
20:46<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah... i should do that to the Transrapid one time...
20:47<Eddi|zuHause3>why would they do that?
20:47<Gonozal_VIII>eddi, i'm very stupid...
20:47<Gonozal_VIII>much easier to move the transrapid to monorail than all narrow gauge things
20:49<Eddi|zuHause3>hehe ;)
20:49<Eddi|zuHause3>it looks nicer even ;)
20:49<Gonozal_VIII>i want to use the transrapid tracks anyways
20:51<Eddi|zuHause3>the ones with the weird offset? they are strange...
20:52<Gonozal_VIII>optical illusion thing...
20:52<@orudge>You now have #tycoon as an oftc-buddy
20:52<@orudge>if anyone of you are interested
20:53<Sacro>its too specialist for the #openttd people
20:53<Gonozal_VIII>i guess it works as long as i avoid using it in situations where it doesn't^^
20:55<SpComb>well, in case anyone here tries to redirect anyone to the #tycoon channel
20:59<Eddi|zuHause3>Gonozal_VIII: i'd find it better to center them and implement train offsets
21:00<Eddi|zuHause3>and especially bridges will look weird...
21:00<Eddi|zuHause3>also, the road crossing code should be changed
21:00<Gonozal_VIII>i would like that solution a lot better too
21:01<Gonozal_VIII>rvs should just ignore trains on that track
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21:06<Eddi|zuHause3>what i always wanted to know... why does "service in depot" order get cancelled randomly?!?
21:06<Gonozal_VIII>cancelled? never seen that happening
21:08<Eddi|zuHause3>"goto depot" stays, but "service in depot" (ctrl+click) gets cancelled after a few ticks
21:09<Gonozal_VIII>i've only seen that if i send the train to depot manually
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21:10<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah, that is what i mean
21:11<Gonozal_VIII>yes... you have to click twice to actually send it to the depot
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21:11<Gonozal_VIII>done that a lot
21:11<Eddi|zuHause3>i have sent a train to service to depot 5 times in a row, after a few ticks, the order gets reset to goto station
21:12<Gonozal_VIII>ah you skipped orders?
21:12<Eddi|zuHause3>i did nothing with orders
21:12<Eddi|zuHause3>i ctrl+clicked on the depot icon in the train window
21:13<Gonozal_VIII>didn't know that you can ctrl click that
21:13<Eddi|zuHause3>it's very useful for autoreplace
21:13<Gonozal_VIII>after how many ticks?
21:14<Eddi|zuHause3>looks pretty random to me
21:15<Eddi|zuHause3>might not even depend on ticks
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21:16<Gonozal_VIII>well... i didn't even know about that feature so i never noticed that
21:17<Gonozal_VIII>i don't send trains to autoreplace manually, they all have depot orders and get replaced soon enough
21:17<Eddi|zuHause3>i never give depot orders
21:17<Eddi|zuHause3>and i only sparsely have depots throughout the map
21:18<Gonozal_VIII>i don't like it when they want to go to the depot at random
21:18<Gonozal_VIII>maybe the next depot is right after the station it should visit next... it goes there and has to loop all around... not good
21:19<Eddi|zuHause3>no, the depot is before the station
21:20<Eddi|zuHause3>i had a train cancel the order right before the last switch to the depot
21:20<Gonozal_VIII>i don't place depots before unloading stations
21:20<Gonozal_VIII>only before loading
21:20<Eddi|zuHause3>i place depots in locations where i can reach them from every direction, and leave in every direction
21:21<Eddi|zuHause3>which is very complicated
21:21<Gonozal_VIII>i don't do complicated
21:21<Sacro>neither do i
21:21<Eddi|zuHause3>i have a feeling this conflicts with autoreplace...
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21:21<Gonozal_VIII>tracks are very busy, complicated stuff slows everything down
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21:21<Eddi|zuHause3>there was once a function that was meant to send all trains to service in a depot if they have an autoreplace orders, and servicing is off
21:22<Eddi|zuHause3>it might behave wrongly
21:22<Gonozal_VIII>possibly, ask bjarni
21:22<Eddi|zuHause3>is wrongly even a word?
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21:23<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause3: meh, who cares
21:23<Gonozal_VIII>sounds wrongly
21:24<@Belugas>mmmh... is that true?
21:24*Belugas goes to #tycoon
21:25<@orudge>we got fed up of quakenetsplits
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21:29<Gonozal_VIII>i know some channels that moved away from quakenet for the same reason... to gamesnet (now gamesurge) and shortly after that there were problems too
21:39<Sacro>i miss freenode :(
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21:43<zil>anyone here?
21:44<zil>well, I have not played transport tycoon for years and I have just found out about open ttd... I love it, but one question that has been driving me mad.... if there are two industries near each other and you build a station that has the catchment area of both, will you get the production of both industries?
21:45<SpComb>we're all asleep
21:45*SpComb under-the-blanket with his n810
21:45<zil>basically, does it make a diffrence if the catchment area of a station covers one or all of the industry... obviously it makes a diffrece with mail / passangers, I was just wondering if it made a diffrence with industry
21:46<Gonozal_VIII>you only need to touch a corner
21:46<zil>and thanks to everyone for such a great game, can't beleive how good open ttd is!
21:47<+glx><Gonozal_VIII> you only need to touch a corner <-- not always true
21:48<Eddi|zuHause3>zil: it makes a difference for passengers/mail because each house is an own "industry"
21:48<Gonozal_VIII>to recieve stuff it is
21:48<+glx>no, you need to touch enough squares to get 8/8
21:49<Eddi|zuHause3>glx: only for delivering, not for receiving
21:49<+glx>hmm wrong
21:49<Gonozal_VIII>oh... i was talking about industries, he already wrote that he knows that town houses are different
21:49<+glx>for receiving you need to touch a tile that produce something
21:51<Gonozal_VIII>all tiles produce something in the existing industries
21:51<+glx>in original yes, but with newindustries it's differenr
21:51<Gonozal_VIII>wouldn't work good the other way... at least not without that new patch
21:52<Gonozal_VIII>georges industries also do that
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21:52<Gonozal_VIII>every tile produces but only some recieve
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21:54<+glx>hmm I just checked and you're right, production is industry wide, acceptance is tile wide
21:55<Gonozal_VIII>that was one of the first things i tested when i played my first game with ecs vectors
21:55<+glx>well cargo type accepted is defined by industry, and tiles define accepted ammount
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21:58<zil>:S so... basically, I have two forests that are a few squares apart, I have built a station in the middle of both and I am touching a few squares from each... would I get the same ammount of wood from touching part of the industry as to touching the whole thing? I used to only build if the entire place was within catchment... but I am really curious about this
21:59<Gonozal_VIII>same ammount no matter how many tiles you touch
22:00<Eddi|zuHause3>damn, i need a diagonal tunnel...
22:00<Gonozal_VIII>everybody does
22:00<Gonozal_VIII>code it ;-)
22:01<Sacro>didn't someone already start? like smatz or something
22:01<Sacro>ah well, gnight
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22:03<Gonozal_VIII>[04:01:48] Guest2952: afaik not diagonal tunnels but tunnels with stuff inside
22:03<Gonozal_VIII>[04:02:26] *** You have been disconnected. Sun Jan 13 04:02:26 2008.
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22:24<Gonozal_VIII>bed... night
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---Logclosed Sun Jan 13 00:00:15 2008