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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-01-14

---Logopened Mon Jan 14 00:00:55 2008
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03:53<Forked>good morning
03:53<Forked>(thats a lie)
03:53<peter1138>yes, it's terrible
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05:23<@peter1138> :o
05:24<Gonozal_VIII>you need to remove some lines from the serbian sets
05:25<Gonozal_VIII>check for persistantengines and narrow gauge grf with parameter 4
05:25<Gonozal_VIII>the first isn't important... but i don't like warnings^^
05:26<Gonozal_VIII>aaand.. when will that be in trunk?
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06:18<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r11846 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix [FS#1651]: implicit conversion from unsigned to signed int caused compilation failure with MSVC.
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06:32<arfonzo>hi all, i have some questions about openttd.cfg that I don't seem to find answers to on the wiki: (1) restart_game_year = 0, is there an upper limit on the year, or does it really go on forever? (2) are the maximum values for max_companies 8 and max_clients 11?
06:32<arfonzo>(i'm running 0.6.0b2, if it matters, thanks)
06:33<@peter1138>1) forever, pretty much. you wouldn't want to play that far
06:33<@peter1138>2) yes
06:33<arfonzo>thanks peter1138
06:33<arfonzo>why wouldn't it be a good idea to run infinite games?
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06:35<@peter1138>no variety
06:39<arfonzo>i see, makes sense
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06:44<arfonzo>and if I'm running a dedicated openttd server in linux, where would i put/find the on_server_connect.scr? or, where should i make the scripts directory?
06:44<arfonzo>just straight in the same directory where openttd binary is?
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07:11<arfonzo>peter1138: how do I verify that on_server_connect.scr is actually being loaded? I've put a say "blah" in /usr/games/scripts/on_server_connect.scr, which doesn't seem to be doing anything
07:15<@peter1138>/usr/games/scripts? hmm
07:16<arfonzo>yes I've got the .deb installation
07:16<@peter1138>it should be next to the data directory
07:16<Digitalfox>Nice peter :)
07:17<arfonzo>ok, the wiki says to put it in the dir with the openttd binary
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07:17<arfonzo>let me try to put it with the data dir
07:17<@peter1138>i think it's only the .deb build that puts the binary in a different place
07:18<@peter1138>Digitalfox, enough sets? or shall i add more?
07:18<Digitalfox>OH GIVE ME MORE... MORE AND MORE... o_O
07:18<@peter1138>dbg: [misc] [Pool] (Engine) increasing size of pool to 1472 items (394496 bytes)
07:18<@peter1138>quite a few entries :D
07:18<Digitalfox>I guess it's enought hehe ;)
07:19<@peter1138>that's just train sets
07:19<@peter1138>though there isn't much available for other transport types
07:20<Digitalfox>yeah, now we just need some coders and artis willing to create bigger sets, or create a general train set, + expansions so it's still compatible with patch if they desire :)
07:20<arfonzo>hm, peter1138 I've put scripts into /usr/share/games/openttd now, still nothing
07:20<arfonzo>say "hi" in on_server_connect.scr will output something to the clients who connect, right?
07:21<@peter1138>should output to everyone
07:21<@peter1138>Digitalfox, *nod*
07:22<arfonzo>hm ok, it's still not doing any output at all at the moment, strange
07:22<Digitalfox>eh eh :)
07:22<arfonzo>i've tried to put the scripts/ in ~/.openttd, /usr/games, and /usr/share/games/openttd now... am I missing something?
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08:13<arfonzo>peter1138: the issue's resolved if 0.6.0b2 is compiled from source, now all the scripts are executing
08:14<@peter1138>probably the 'compiled from source' bit did it, heh
08:15<arfonzo>on another note, my client openttd's "find server" button doesn't seem to be doing anything today
08:15<@peter1138>i think the master server is down
08:15<arfonzo>does thatmean the master server's down?
08:15<arfonzo>ok, thanks
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08:31<@orudge>it seems as if * (where * = eweka-hosted stuff) is down, indeed
08:31*orudge shall poke TrueBrain
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08:37<arfonzo>how do i check what year it is via console of the server?
08:38<arfonzo>thanks peter1138, is there a way then i can check more or less how long, say 60 months in the game is in real time? (I've set auto clean to 60)
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08:39<@peter1138>60 months is ~ 1800 days. a day is about 2 seconds, so basically, 1 hour
08:39<@peter1138>1 month in a minute
08:39<arfonzo>perfect, thanks
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08:57<Sacro>@openttd commit 11846
08:57<@DorpsGek>Sacro: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information.
08:58<Sacro>ah, svn might be down
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09:04<@peter1138>svn up is, other stuff isn't
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09:04<@orudge>at the moment, we just have to wait for Patric to get back I guess
09:04<rave>hello, what's going on?
09:05<@peter1138>svn up is?
09:05<@peter1138>svn is up :p
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09:12<LA[KoRn]>Draakon: The game you gave me yesterday.. Is it online only?
09:12<Draakon>Salvage? i think so, haven't tested it yet
09:14<rave> down?
09:14<Draakon>seems so
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09:15<rave>what source file contains the code for incrementing the date/year?
09:16<Sacro>ooh i know this...
09:16<Sacro>but I can't recall D:
09:16<rave>can you think of a search string to help me find it?
09:16<Sacro>its somewhere near where i did my daylength patch
09:17<Draakon>web based SVN log is up
09:17<Draakon>but not the real site
09:18<@orudge>I guess Apache is down
09:18*Draakon hopes it gets fixed soon
09:19<waldo_>cant find any multiplayer inet games ... with the 'find server' button, used to work fine ...
09:19<Sacro>waldo_: masterserver is down
09:19<+glx>IIRC TB planed to move his servers to another rack
09:19<+glx>but I don't know if he is doing it right now
09:20<@orudge>glx`: I've not heard anything
09:20<waldo_>no weed and no TTD makes waldo go ...... something something
09:20<@orudge>I'd likely be warned before such things happen
09:20<@orudge>but ah well, he'll sort everything out later I guess
09:20<Draakon>whole community should be warned IMO
09:20<+glx>but it may just be a server crash again :)
09:21<@orudge>well, seems to be working
09:21<rave>why isn't openttd distributed with custom graphics files?
09:21<@orudge>(port 8000)
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09:21<@orudge>rave: because none have been made yet
09:21<@orudge>there's a project doing that now
09:21<LA[KoRn]>rave: which ones
09:21<@orudge>which is doing quite well
09:21<@orudge>so OpenTTD 0.7 may well have its own set of default graphics
09:22<@orudge>hence the use of the word :p
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09:22<rave>has anyone tried contacting the rights owner for permission?
09:22<Draakon>is hg.openttd located on a different server?
09:22<Draakon>rave: no
09:22<Draakon>i think
09:22<LA[KoRn]>Zephyris calculated that if we get sprites as fast as we have been getting, we'll get ready by March 11
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09:22<Draakon>good news then
09:22<@orudge>Draakon: it's the same server, but a different process
09:22<@orudge>ie, it's not the same apache server as runs on port 80
09:23<@orudge>rave: if you mean for the standard TTD graphics
09:23<@orudge>then people have been in contact with Simon Foster
09:23<@orudge>basically, the graphics are licenced to Chris Sawyer and/or Microprose/Atari/whoever (nobody knows these days)
09:23<@orudge>and distributing those is not possible
09:23*LA[KoRn] changes his wifi network
09:23<+glx>I think only the main web server is down
09:23<+glx>(I can log in my dev space with ssh)
09:24<Draakon>server has crashed perhaps?
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09:26<@orudge>then yes, it's likely to just be the web server
09:26<@orudge>and the master server too probably
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09:30<yorick>looks like the masterserver's down again
09:30<@orudge>yes, indeed
09:31<yorick>but not there is no truelight to fix it
09:31<@orudge>we have to wait for TrueBrain to sort it out, but he's away at the moment
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09:31<Draakon>orudge: you don't have rights to check whats wrong?
09:32<yorick>not if he can't contact the server
09:33<@Belugas>even then, i don't think orudge have some rights on that sever (although i can be mistaken)
09:33-!-lws1984_ is now known as lws1984
09:33<yorick>Maarten's IP: :)
09:35<@orudge>Belugas: I don't at the moment
09:35<@orudge>I am supposed to be taking over duties over, but haven't quite got around to sorting that out yet
09:35<@Belugas>quod erat demonstrandum
09:35<@Belugas><< or something in that line ;) >>
09:35<Draakon>what that means?
09:36<@Belugas>it's latin
09:36<yorick>yes we know
09:36<yorick>erat = was
09:37<+glx>Belugas: CQFD ;)
09:37<@Belugas>yeah :D
09:38<@Belugas>"What needed to be demonstrated"
09:38<@Belugas>loosely translated
09:38<@Belugas>as i can see, at least glx has some good scholarship :)
09:39*Belugas wonders what they teach kids nowadays :S
09:39<@orudge>they don't seem to teach them proper English, at least not in this country
09:39*orudge grumbles and mutters and whatnot
09:39<@Belugas>yeah :)
09:39<yorick>they teach them latin, greek and french...
09:40<yorick>and german
09:40<yorick>in Holland
09:41<Draakon>:( no good PBS patches out there
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09:43<yorick>there is one
09:43<yorick>but its a git-diff
09:43<Draakon>this one?
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09:45*Draakon compiles now
09:45-!-mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ
09:45<rave>will towns ever build over your road in the default version of openttd?
09:45<rave>I just noticed it's happening in my mod
09:45*Draakon also goes and eats food so me is away now
09:45<@Belugas>default ?
09:45<@Belugas>please, be a little more specified
09:45<@Bjarni>build over road?
09:46<@Belugas>rave... please... version?
09:46<rave>if you build a road inside a town
09:46<Draakon>belugas: i think he has patched game and he meant non patched
09:46<Draakon>rave: you have a patched game?
09:46<rave>Draakon: correct
09:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r11847 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix: do not affect the speed a train is entering a depot by trackbits behind it
09:47<Draakon>rave: im sorry but developers don't support patched games
09:47<@Bjarni>I think the question is more like how is it behaving in an unpatched game
09:47<rave>I'm talking about the unpatched
09:48<@Bjarni>well... you could try yourself and see what happens
09:48<SmatZ>town shouldn't be able to remove roads it doesn't own
09:48*Belugas does not remember having seen nor heard that behaviour
09:49<rave>to consolodate: in openttd 0.5.3 will a town's local authority ever build over a player's road network within the radius of the town e.g. with houses or land sloping?
09:50<@Belugas>they are not supposed to build a house over your roads, no
09:50<@Bjarni>do you mean ON the road or next to it?
09:50<@Belugas>they can expand their own road network over yours, yea
09:50<@Belugas>BUT! watch out for the magic Bulldozer cheat ;)
09:50<SmatZ>yeah :)
09:50<@Belugas>if YOU can use it, THEY can too
09:51<rave>ok thanks
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09:53*LA[KoRn] just watched videos about the X Noorte laulu- ja tantsupidu/ the tenth youth's Song and Dance festival
09:56<Draakon>im back and my compiler just gave a error
09:56<Draakon>looks like patch does not work
09:57<rave>Draakon: staff don't support patches
09:57<@Bjarni>Draakon: that should teach you to deal with patches from strangers
09:57<Draakon>i was not asking about whats wrong or any similar doing, i just sayed
09:57<Sacro>alas poor yorick! :D
09:58<@Bjarni><rave> Draakon: staff don't support patches <-- there is an exception. If a developer made the patch then feedback is interesting
09:58<@Bjarni>but... I don't know what patch you guys are talking about but since it fails then it's not one from a developer ;)
09:59<Draakon>it may be, who knows
09:59<@Bjarni>you mean you don't know where it's from?
09:59<Draakon>i do, i just saying
10:00<@Bjarni>that's the usual with users
10:00*Belugas thinks Draakon likes saying a lot ;)
10:00<@Bjarni>they just say something without thinking it though and consider the consequences
10:01<Draakon>i just needed to say something or this place looks like a ghost town
10:01<@Bjarni>ghost town?
10:01<@Belugas>in my case, i'm working. So of course, i'm not going to entertain the place
10:01<Draakon>deserted then, if it is better
10:01<@Bjarni>you mean you consider yourself important enough to keep this channel alive?
10:02<Draakon>i don't like empty IRC channels
10:02<@Bjarni>then you make no sense at all
10:02<@Bjarni>this channel is never empty
10:02<@Bjarni>I don't kick THAT many people
10:03<Draakon>ok then, not active
10:03-!-mode/#openttd [-b music!*@*] by Bjarni
10:03*yorick gets distracted by a virus-warning
10:03<LA[KoRn]> /when one falls through the hand of Bjarni, three arise/
10:03<@Bjarni>hehe... forgot about the ban from yesterday
10:03<@Belugas>my leag scratches
10:04*Belugas scratches his leg
10:04<+glx>Bjarni: what is the other ban?
10:04<@Bjarni>I don't think I have anymore active bans
10:05<Draakon>hmm, if you banned someone yesterday how come /ban command shows only 10. January bans?
10:05<rave>*!* [by, 321723 secs ago]
10:05<rave>15:06 -!- 2 - #openttd: ban *!* [by, 321723 secs ago]
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10:05<@Bjarni>those people are banned but I didn't do it
10:05<@Bjarni>so I can't say why they are banned
10:05<@Bjarni>but I guess they deserved it
10:05<SmatZ>I see 3 bans from 25th December
10:06*Draakon has to go now
10:06<dihedral>hey Bjarni
10:06-!-Draakon [] has quit [Quit: bye]
10:06<@Bjarni>hi dihedral
10:06<@Bjarni>party time :D
10:06<SmatZ>hello dihedral
10:06*yorick scanns file online
10:06<SmatZ>98 nicks here :)
10:07*yorick sees results: the ONLY virusscanner that gives a virus is the one I have
10:07<dihedral>hello SmatZ
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10:07<@Bjarni>I banned a guy a few weeks ago because he started talking about home grown drugs and how to do it and wouldn't shut up or talk about something else
10:07<@Bjarni>I don't know why he isn't banned anymore
10:08<dihedral>default timeout?
10:08<+glx>he is still banned
10:08<@Bjarni>SmatZ: 99
10:08<+glx>at least my client says so
10:08<yorick>crazy virusscanner that identifies winlogon.exe(last modified: aug 2002) as a virus
10:08<@Bjarni>glx: no... it was a .ee domain
10:08<+glx>[01:55:25] Bjarni [] a mis le mode +b *!*chatzilla@*
10:08<+glx>[01:55:50] SpamCannon [] a été kické(e) #openttd par Bjarni [] : drugs are banned for a reason and I support that ban
10:09*Sacro sniggers, hehehe, spamcannon
10:09<SmatZ>he is still banned
10:09<@Bjarni>I don't get the ban reasons here
10:10<rave>would the rights/licensing of ottd allow it to be part of a linux distro (with custom graphics files)?
10:10<@orudge>rave: there was a debate about that on the debian-legal mailing list
10:10<@orudge>google "debian openttd"
10:11<@orudge> etc
10:11<@orudge>if we ignore the potential reverse-engineering issues, then there should be no reason OpenTTD couldn't be distribuetd
10:11<@orudge>if graphics and sound were replaced
10:11<@peter1138>orudge is going to make his employer buy all the rights
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10:12<@orudge>I might have to get quite pally with Steve Jobs for that to happen (assuming I were to get the gig in the first place)
10:12<@Bjarni>be careful... Scrooge McDuck will never buy something like that if there is no personal profits in it
10:12<@peter1138>orudge is the next CEO of apple
10:12-!-LA[KoRn] [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:13<@peter1138>yeah, go work for google
10:13-!-LA[KoRn]_ is now known as LA[KoRn]
10:13<@peter1138>they'll buy anything
10:14<@orudge>... or Microsoft
10:14<@Bjarni>you want to sell yourself to the devil to gain ownership?
10:14<@orudge>not hugely
10:14<@orudge>but hey, if all else fails :p
10:15<@orudge>of course, OpenTTD would become closed-source and Vista-only
10:15<@orudge>and would require mandatory activation
10:15*lws1984 dropkicks orudge
10:15<@orudge>maybe going after Jobs would be the better option after all
10:15<@Bjarni>MS has a vista problem
10:15<lws1984>MS has many problems.
10:16<murray>many has problems with MS
10:16*lws1984 goes back to his xbox
10:16<@Bjarni>I read yesterday that in an interview with Bill Gates he was asked what was the poorest prepared MS product in the last 5 years and his reply was vague and indicated vista
10:17*Bjarni looks it up again
10:17<dihedral>there was no other release in the last 5 years
10:17<arfonzo>i've been using vista for over a year now, i think it's a lot better than xp in a lot of ways
10:18<arfonzo>to each his own, i guess
10:18<LA[KoRn]>somebody, please suggest me a good free rts game :D I need it.. Right now! :P
10:18<yorick>is dih's password manager still compatible with openttd 0.6.0-beta2?
10:18-!-GoneWacko [~gonewacko@] has quit [Quit: You just lost the game]
10:18<dihedral>what password manager__
10:18<LA[KoRn]>arfonzo: I've been using Vista since August and I think it suc*s
10:18<arfonzo>LA[KoRn]: warzone 2100 is alright, kinda
10:18<yorick>password manager patch you used @WWOTTDGD
10:19<dihedral>if you hash it yourself you can set a password
10:19<dihedral>if you want to see an md5sum you can also get the currently set one
10:19<dihedral>but that is about the next thing i will update
10:19<yorick>I know how to convert md5's
10:19<LA[KoRn]>arfonzo: I tried that once... on linux, it crashed very many times...
10:20<dihedral>yorick: the passwords are hashed
10:20<yorick>I know
10:20<dihedral>and you will not get the original back
10:20<yorick>would a patched server be compatible with unpatched clients?
10:20<arfonzo>LA[KoRn]: you should return it to the store and ask for a refund!
10:20<dihedral>it only reads and sets the companies password variable
10:21<yorick>dihedral: with an MD5, I can generate passwords that are compatible
10:21<dihedral>hash is done with game seed and servers unique id
10:21<dihedral>that's what i am saying
10:21<yorick>that's less good
10:21<yorick>any way to decrypt?
10:21<dihedral>hence i want to get the hashing into the server, then company_pw on the server would work again
10:22<dihedral>what do you think the hashing is there for
10:22<yorick>can we still set a password
10:23<yorick>if we know the game seed an server id
10:23<dihedral>i just said - i would like to get the hashing into the server, then you can set again
10:23<yorick>well... I just want to be able to move between companies unpassworded, and with unpatched clients
10:25<yorick>because of the unpatched clients, I cant use the move patch
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10:30<yorick>I know kirk douglas tried, but that was for evil purpose
10:30<yorick>seen last message?
10:30<yorick>well... I just want to be able to move between companies unpassworded, and with unpatched clients
10:30<dihedral>if you only want to move inbetween unpassworded companies, you dont need my patch
10:31<yorick>no, I want to move between companies without the need of asking the password
10:32<rave>is DestroyTown() obsolete?
10:32<dihedral>grep for it
10:33<+glx>good luck to adapt 0.5.3 code into trunk ;)
10:34*Bjarni wonders why people still code for 0.5.3
10:34<yorick>its the last stable
10:35<+glx>but we stopped support for it (ie won't release any bugfixes)
10:35<rave>how far has it diverged from .5.3?
10:36<@Bjarni>we switched coding language
10:36<rave>to C++?
10:36<@Bjarni>from C to C++
10:36<murray>did it help?
10:36<rave>did that affect performance?
10:36<rave>obviously it helped for the code structure
10:36<+glx>compilation is slower
10:36-!-Gonozal_VIII [] has joined #openttd
10:37<+glx>code structure is the same :)
10:37<@Bjarni>we can now use C++ stuff in the code and some coders benefit a lot from it
10:37<+glx>but it is improved every day
10:37<rave>oh wow
10:37<rave>sounds terrible
10:37<Gonozal_VIII>yay benefit and improve
10:37<rave>C style code abusing C++ features
10:37<Gonozal_VIII>oh noes terrible
10:38<Gonozal_VIII>oh noes abusing
10:38<dihedral>shush Gonozal_VIII
10:38<@Bjarni>have you actually read the code?
10:38<rave>no, I said "sounds"
10:38<dihedral>read != understand
10:38<rave>if it hasn't been updated to use classes then it sounds like the C++ switch was a bad idea
10:39<murray>next step, C# in 0.7.0 ?
10:39*Bjarni slaps murray
10:39<Sacro>C# is nice
10:39<@Bjarni>we are using classes
10:39<hylje>c++ is awful
10:39<Gonozal_VIII>rave, try to change everything to oo from one day to another
10:39<@Bjarni>but likely not as much as we would have been if we started with C++
10:40<hylje>just port ottd to python :-)
10:40<rave>Gonozal_VIII: try to learn to communicate in a productive way
10:40<Gonozal_VIII>that was productive :P
10:41<murray>ur mom is productive
10:41<Gonozal_VIII>you would have to start from scratch to get everything oo
10:41<+glx>we use classes where they are useful
10:41<@Bjarni>we don't use classes just to use classes
10:41<rave>time to have a look
10:42<rave>sql error on homepage btw
10:43<+glx>oh server is back
10:47<@orudge>ah, good
10:49<@peter1138>hmm, classes :D
10:50<Eddi|zuHause2>some code could use classes but doesn't...
10:50<Eddi|zuHause2>instead it simulates virtual function calls by function pointers
10:50-!-pavel1269 [] has joined #openttd
10:51<@Belugas>and we start using MEMBERS too, but with class
10:52<@peter1138>vehicles use classes
10:52<@peter1138>hmm, that reminds me
10:53<Gonozal_VIII>i'm afraid to read the code...
10:53<Eddi|zuHause2>let me guess, you have a patch somewhere ;)
10:53<Gonozal_VIII>it's so much..
10:53<@Belugas>Gonozal_VIII, it's only the fact there is so much to read
10:53<@Belugas>don't get scared by the volume
10:54<Eddi|zuHause2>get scared by the templates ;)
10:54<Gonozal_VIII>complicated too i guess
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10:55<rave>is NPF better than NTP?
10:55<Eddi|zuHause2>use YAPF
10:55<Eddi|zuHause2>except for ships
10:55<+glx>yes and YAPF is better than NPF
10:56<+glx>don't use NPF for ships either :)
10:59-!-Draakon [] has joined #openttd
10:59<Draakon>hi im back
10:59<Draakon>hi im back
11:00<Gonozal_VIII>you were gone twice?
11:00<Gonozal_VIII>[16:59:20] Draakon: hi im back
11:00<Gonozal_VIII>[16:59:33] Draakon: hi im back
11:01<Draakon>i thought when i typed first one i wasnt in the channel
11:02<+glx>you have so much lag that you didn't see the first one?
11:03<Gonozal_VIII>you can have lag with your own text?
11:03<rave>local lag
11:03<+glx>Draakon: you said it twice in this log
11:03<Draakon>the topic and joining notification come when i said my first hi
11:03<rave>before he recieved the join message
11:04<Draakon>coma after*
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11:10<yorick> O_O
11:11<Gonozal_VIII> :-)
11:11<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r11848 /trunk/ (18 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: New class-based drop down list functionality. Lists are now dynamically generated, and can include parameters, or be extended however needed.
11:11<Gonozal_VIII>hehe, he really had a patch lying around
11:12<Gonozal_VIII>sounds nice
11:12<dihedral>peter1138: that is a neat one ^^
11:12<Draakon> is back
11:12<yorick>we know
11:13<Draakon>what happend to the server anyway?
11:13-!-skidd13 [] has joined #openttd
11:13<mcbane>zombies sandbox r9976 ^^
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11:15<dihedral>hellp skidd13
11:15<skidd13>Hi dih
11:15-!-scia [~scia@] has joined #openttd
11:15<Draakon>hello skidd13
11:15<LA[KoRn]>hello Skidd15
11:16<skidd13>Hi folks
11:16<Gonozal_VIII>hello skidd15
11:16*skidd13 pats LA[KoRn] on his head... It's ok... I know you are not able to count :P
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11:17<LA[KoRn]>what about Gonozal_VIII then?
11:17<skidd13>LA[KoRn]: just copy and paste :D
11:17<LA[KoRn]>I had Skidd, he had skidd
11:18<Gonozal_VIII>and i was the one who brought up the skidd15 thing^^
11:18<Eddi|zuHause2>hello s[tab]
11:19<scia>and thats how tablature was invented
11:19<LA[KoRn]>s[tab] -> S
11:22-!-yorick [] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> <- Go on, try it!]
11:23<@orudge> has been switched (back) to lighttpd
11:23<@orudge>if anyone notices any problems, please say
11:23<Draakon>will do
11:24<LA[KoRn]>aaah problem.. not anyway related to openttd though
11:24<Gonozal_VIII>everything is related to openttd
11:24<Gonozal_VIII>it is!
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11:25<LA[KoRn]>well.. perhaps you are right.. geeks tend to make connections everywhere
11:25<Draakon>example: when my cousin dies, it is related to openttd too?
11:26<mcbane>if he/ahe is hit be train yep.
11:26<mcbane>ahe == she
11:26<Gonozal_VIII>or if he died outside... wouldn't have happened while playing openttd
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11:29<Gonozal_VIII>i don't know of anybody who died while playing openttd
11:30<Gonozal_VIII>openttd makes you immortal!
11:30<LA[KoRn]>well, you see the pr.....aarggghhhh..hh..h.
11:31*LA[KoRn] died while playing OpenTTD
11:31-!-LA[KoRn] is now known as LA[resurrected]
11:31<Gonozal_VIII>you should draw some graveyard sprites for yourself^^
11:32*Belugas tracks down the zombied LA[resurrected] and returned it to the grave
11:33<LA[resurrected]>haha you think to threaten me? I'm immortal now, I played OpenTTD.. Oh, what's thi... aaaaaaa.... a crucifix.... aargh
11:33-!-|Bastiaan| [~Bastiaan@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:34<Digitalfox>Since I'm not a native English language person, sometimes some sentences don't make sense to me.. So in simple words what does this means " New class-based drop down list functionality. Lists are now dynamically generated, and can include parameters, or be extended however needed. " ? o_O
11:34*dihedral waves hello to Belugas
11:34-!-pm|work is now known as planetmaker
11:34<Gonozal_VIII>what part of it do you not understand?
11:35<Digitalfox>Well drop down, does it mean the GUI?
11:35<LA[resurrected]>Digitalfox: I think it has something to do with being capable to do some coding, not gameplay-affecting
11:35*Belugas waves back at waving dihedral
11:35<Gonozal_VIII>drop downs are in the gui, yes
11:36<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r11849 /trunk/src/widgets/dropdown_type.h: -Fix (r11848): Incomplete(?) class broke MSVC/mingw compilation
11:36<LA[resurrected]>you can ask peter1138
11:36<dihedral>does Fix mean you removed it again? ^^
11:36<@Belugas>no... that is Revert
11:36<@Belugas>Fix means... fixed ;)
11:36<Digitalfox>I'm going to check for comments in the code to se if learn something about this :)
11:37<pavel1269>sometimes fixed == reverted :P
11:37<@Belugas>not in this context, but true sometimes
11:37<Gonozal_VIII>after a commit like: "added a bug that breaks the game" ?
11:37<@peter1138>bah, wrong commit message, never mind :p
11:38<pavel1269>Gonozal_VIII: yup :)
11:38<LA[resurrected]>hmm.. you devs ever wanted to revert back some thousands of revisions and then make people confused for the lack of features? :P
11:39<pavel1269>... :)
11:39<Gonozal_VIII>release tto as 0.6.0 final^^
11:39*Sacro could release t1 :P
11:40<@Bjarni>I have r122
11:40<LA[resurrected]>if you aint got final 0.6 till 1. April, you might try that :P
11:40<@Bjarni>of the old server
11:40<@Bjarni>beats your modernised version :p
11:40<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r11850 /trunk/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Fix (r11848): forgot to update vc project files
11:40<@Bjarni>I don't know why I should release it though... I can't even compile it :P
11:41<Sacro>Bjarni: r1, from ludde's cvs
11:41<@Bjarni>here is a question: why should we care?
11:41<rave>if (t->fund_buildings_months && dist <= 25) return 4;
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11:42<rave>anyone know what that does in GetTownRadiusGroup?
11:42<Gonozal_VIII>it returns 4
11:43<rave>what does 4 signify?
11:43<Gonozal_VIII>if t->fund_buildings_months
11:43<Gonozal_VIII>and dist <= 25
11:43<Gonozal_VIII>look where it's called and what happens to that 4
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11:51<mcbane>ahe == she
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11:59<Draakon>what assertion error is this: owner < OWNER_END on players.cpp line 277?
11:59<@Belugas>rave, strangely enough, there are only 4 radius zones in towns...
12:00<@Belugas>i wonder if there is a relation :S
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12:02<@Belugas>Draakon, how do you read it? in the context of the function, that is...
12:03<@Belugas>mmh... lunch time
12:04<rave>Belugas: but what is the relationship between if the town is funded for building and radius zone 4?
12:04<Draakon>well i will sent a screenshot but dont know how do make one while error is in the way
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12:06<@Belugas>Draakon, i have not asked for a screenshot. I've asked : how do you read the assert, what is its use
12:06<@Belugas>rave, it is a bit evident. Look where the result is used
12:07<Draakon>one momento belugas
12:10<Spitfireleet>hi all, does this make sense? "OpenTTD is an open source port of the Chris Sawyer game Transport Tycoon Deluxe to C using a disassembly of the original game binaries." how does one do such a thing?
12:10<@Belugas>with the right tools
12:10<Draakon>This is what i did: loaded up a savegame, started demolishing a piece of land with town buildings in it and then i get assertion error: C:\Program Files\OpenTTD\openttd.exe
12:10<hylje>by being ludde
12:10<@Belugas>and a lot of patience and skills
12:11<Spitfireleet>i mean by coding and such
12:11<@orudge>you sit and disassemble the original binary
12:11<@orudge>figure out what it all does
12:11<@orudge>and then rewrite it in C
12:11<@orudge>which is a pretty big task, really.
12:11<Draakon>File: /compile_farm/openttd/nighly/compile.../players.cpp
12:11<Draakon>line: 277
12:11<Draakon>owner < OWNER_ENDS
12:12<Spitfireleet>i thought the original was a closed source, so it would be pretty much impossible to port over
12:12<Dominik>but in the case of ttd a lot of the binary was already commented, which made it a bit easier then doing it from scratch
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12:17<Sacro>Spitfireleet: you can port from binary to assembler quite easily afaik
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12:18<@Belugas>rave, radius 4 is the center of the town. Does that help you a bit more?
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12:19-!-planetmaker|procrastinating is now known as pm|work
12:19<pm|work>see you later. got to go home and eat something :)
12:20<+glx>Draakon: easy, you have an invalid owner for some reason
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12:20<Draakon>i also demolished that part of land with magic bulldozer
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12:21<Spitfireleet>Sacro: Spitfireleet: you can port from binary to assembler quite easily afaik <---- how do you do that exactly?
12:22<Sacro>Spitfireleet: with a disassembler
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12:25<rave>it's a bit harder than you may think
12:26<pv2b>from binary to assembler is easy compeltely automatically.
12:26<pv2b>understanding it however...
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12:28<rave>do you know of a disassembler that outputs in a format ready to be assembled?
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12:30<Dominik>IDA pro is a good disassembler, but unfortunately quite expensive
12:31<pv2b>rave: my experience with assembler has bee pretty much limited to pic assembler, but on that architecture, sure
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12:31<@orudge>my experience with assembler is limited to some basic Intel assembly, some assembler for some RISC platform, and Whitespace, which I wrote my own "assembler" for.
12:32<pv2b>oh, and i cracked a shareware game (that was no longer available for purchasing due to a bullshit lawsuit) on OS X once ;-)
12:33<pv2b>by using a disassembler and a hex editor
12:33<pv2b>this was without really knowing PPC assembler at all. fortunately the guy left debugging symbols in, and cracking it was as easy as making sure IsRegistered() already returned 1 ;-)
12:33<Spitfireleet>once you have the assembly code, how would that process then go to being C++ code?
12:33<pv2b>Spitfireleet: with a lot of mental effort
12:33<@orudge>deja vu
12:33<@orudge>I *have* seen this before
12:34*orudge checks logs to be sure
12:34<SpComb>Logs: (old: )
12:34<@orudge>that's really weird
12:34<@orudge>was it somewhere else I saw it
12:34<pv2b>(in the end the program still checked whether it was registered, but it was kinda like the drink machine in the Heart of Gold)
12:34<@orudge>but for sure, I saw you saying those lines, pv2b, some time ago (a few weeks maybe)
12:34<@orudge>and now I just had deja vu
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12:34<pv2b>not a few weeks ago
12:34<pv2b>more like years
12:35<@orudge>I've certainly seen it :p
12:35<@orudge>and now you're messing with my mind :[p
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12:35<pv2b>or it could be déjà vu as you say
12:36<@orudge>tis most weird
12:36<Dominik>Spitfireleet: you have to take every single line of assembly code and translate it into c. the hard part is to figure out what it all means.
12:37<rave>I'd leave it in assembly and gradually convert the bits I need to modify to C
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12:38<@orudge>Dominik = dominik81, or a different Dominik?
12:39<Dominik>orudge: yes, i'm the one :)
12:39<@orudge>just wondering
12:39<+glx>oh you changed your nick again ;)
12:39<Dominik>i wish i could change my forum nick, but i think "Dominik" is already taken
12:39<@orudge>who is it taken by, and do they have any posts?
12:40<@orudge>well, it's taken by "Dominik" I presumeb
12:40<@orudge>but if they have no posts
12:40<@orudge>then it may be possible to arrange for some alterations
12:41-!-|Jeroen| [] has quit [Quit: oO]
12:42<Dominik>orudge: hmm, i just did a quick search for posts by *ominik*. There are exactly 723, all of which are by me
12:42<Spitfireleet>how do you translate from one programming language to another?
12:43<@orudge>Dominik: if there is a "Dominik" user, they don't appear to be activated
12:43<@orudge>keep an eye out for the username change thread
12:43<Dominik>Spitfireleet: for example "a := 1" in pascal becomes "a = 1;" in c ^^
12:43<@orudge>(I post it from time to time)
12:43<@orudge>an post in there
12:44<+glx>there's no Dominik in user list
12:44<@Belugas>Spitfireleet: a language is just the support of a concept/idea. So understand what a) does means you can write it in b) if you know how to read/write in a) and b)
12:44<Dominik>i'm pretty sure a few years ago when i checked there was
12:45<Spitfireleet>i wish there was just a simple way of using some program to do for you
12:46<@Belugas>in programming, Spitfireleet, the easy and simple ways are always the worse :)
12:46<@Belugas>the best tool is the brain
12:46<rave>where are screenshots saved?
12:46<Dominik>or you could write such a program yourself ;)
12:46<+glx>in same dir as openttd.cfg rave
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12:47*Belugas nods at Dominik, but would not want to perform such a task :)
12:47<@Belugas>at all!
12:48<Dominik>and even so, you still would need to manually go through everything
12:50<@orudge>hm, nice, my DOS port of OpenTTD seems to have been based on r121 of the old SVN
12:50<@orudge>the source tree looked so much less cluttered back then :p
12:50<rave>screenshots aren't working in 0.6.0-b2 on debian
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13:00<@orudge>heh, and my old attempt at larger airports from 2004
13:00<@orudge>some interesting stuff buried around here
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13:11<Draakon>argh, dam PC
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13:14<pv2b>rave: that's.... rather conurbanationific
13:14<hylje>looks great
13:14<hylje>now if you had a train network in that :-)
13:15<pv2b>openttd needs a simcity style subway system, but better ;-)
13:15<Gonozal_VIII>naah, not trains... that map needs trucks, busses and trams
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13:17<@Belugas>pv2b, agreed. Can't wait for you to code it ;)
13:18<pv2b>you'd probably have to have a seperate "underworld" map. it'd be rather nontrivial :-)
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13:19<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r11851 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_callbacks.h town_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: A few magic numbers removal, plus a little code style
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13:21<@Belugas>non trivial to say the least...
13:21<@Belugas>underworld would not be adequate
13:21<Draakon>underworld rules
13:21<@Belugas>might be something in the line of pointed tiles, or something like that
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13:22<@Belugas>Draakon, yes, pretty cool movie
13:23<Draakon>what about building subways like in locomotion? is it possible currently?
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13:24<@Belugas>becuase it is not possible currently.
13:24<@Belugas>code does not support it
13:24<@Belugas>nor gui
13:24<@Belugas>nor map
13:25<@Belugas>it might be, but with serious code change
13:25<@Belugas>and i mean really srious
13:25*Draakon needs to find C++ tutorials from google tour buss
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13:27<Spitfireleet>Draakon: what about building subways like in locomotion? is it possible currently? <--- You can build subways?
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13:27<Draakon>in Locomotion yes, but not in OpenTTD
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13:30<Tefad>i never figured out the subway thing
13:30<Draakon>on Locomotion?
13:30<Tefad>but then again after running locomotion for an hour or two i almost vomited due to the interface..
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13:31<pv2b>i hear the ai in lomo was worse than in ttd
13:31<Tefad>(i am exaggerating a little)
13:31<pv2b>never played lomo thoguh, but i've seen some rather.... extreme screenshots
13:31<Tefad>lomo is also still 8bit.
13:33<Maedhros>are you sure? i thought the graphics were at least 16 bit (not that i've ever actually played it)
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13:34<@Belugas>i think Tefad is right. Graphics are still in 8 bits. I have to admit that i like the look of the rendered engines and industruies and all
13:34<@Belugas>tru, gui is not really enjoyable
13:34<@peter1138>it's 8bpp with a very durgy grey/brown palette
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13:37<Maedhros>ok, fair enough :)
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13:39-!-X is now known as ^_^
13:40-!-^_^ is now known as lws1984
13:40<Wolf01>not only the gui, but i think that lomo lacks some features which made TTD a great game, and i don't mean only gameplay features, but the atmosphere too
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13:40<hylje>atmosphere is too easy to screw up
13:42<@Belugas>in my case, the gui killed the fun of it
13:42<@Belugas>i really loved the gfx, though
13:44<@peter1138>well more ttd-style would be better
13:44<@peter1138>but the construction method... oh dear
13:45<Wezz6400>building underground in lomo works nicely, until you try it in a city
13:48<Tefad>isn't that where you'd need to do it anyway?
13:49<hylje>hmm, ottd froze on me :<
13:49<hylje>and i lost a savegame
13:50<hylje>one that i havent saved, that is
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13:50<hylje>i want to file a complaint
13:50<Draakon>im listening :P
13:51<@Belugas>here's your refund, hylje
13:57<@Belugas>bugger :( it is still snowing. hasn't stopped since this morning
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13:58<skidd13>Belugas: better snow than ice ;)
13:59<Gonozal_VIII>snow + rain means lots of ice...
13:59<@Belugas>true skidd13
14:00<Gonozal_VIII>cold snow is ok for walking on...
14:00<@Belugas>or freezing rain even :S
14:00<@Belugas>hot snow is ok to ...
14:00*Belugas gives up
14:01<skidd13>Gonozal_VIII: I think belugas does not mean the snow wich is a form of water :D
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14:04<pavel1269>we want too some snow here!
14:04<Gonozal_VIII>snow sucks
14:05*Belugas agrees
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14:09*dih smiles
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14:14<dih>you are missing a password there LA
14:14<LA[lord]>why not
14:14<LA[lord]>and slash too
14:14<dih>you know what is awsome
14:15<dih>identifying with ssl certs
14:15<@orudge>but yes, it is rather funky
14:15<dih>i never said it was new
14:15<dih>or having a static ip and being authenticated by a hostmask is nice too
14:15<SpComb>Logs: (old: )
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14:16<dih>mine are nicer ^^
14:16<dih>they just look better :-)
14:16<LA[lord]>.. :( I want snow..
14:17*dih snows
14:17<Gonozal_VIII>stop that dih
14:17<Gonozal_VIII>bad dih
14:17<LA[lord]>where do you locate dih?
14:17<Gonozal_VIII>the snowing
14:17<dih>you dont locate dih
14:17<dih>dih locates himself
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14:19<LA[lord]>where is your location dih?
14:19<LA[lord]>I mean where does the snow fall because of you?
14:20*dih stops snowing
14:20<dih>coming to think about it
14:21*dih starts snowing heavily over Gonozal_VIII
14:21<LA[lord]>Come over Estonia.. snow here too, please :D
14:21<LA[lord]>We had snow... for a week.. and it all melted
14:22<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm strange... estonia is a lot further north
14:22<LA[lord]>a *lot*
14:22<ln->my first copy of TTD was bought from estonia...
14:22<ln->sorry, TT, not TTD
14:23<LA[lord]>Gonozal_VIII: It has been raining here for some days...
14:23<LA[lord]>and it's +2C here currently
14:23<LA[lord]>and for thetime (21:22) it's quite much
14:24<LA[lord]>not to count it's middle of January :roll:
14:24<LA[lord]>ln-: You go frequently to Estonia?
14:25<Gonozal_VIII>i guess he doesn't have to go far... by ferry or something
14:25<ln->not frequently.
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14:25<LA[lord]>Gonozal_VIII:about 80 km-s
14:25<LA[lord]>between Tallinn and Helsinki
14:25<ln->2 hours by train plus about 3 hours by ferry.
14:26<Gonozal_VIII>how do you know those distances?
14:26<LA[lord]>because I know.. It's logical...
14:26<LA[lord]>The finns are almost like Estonians... I think I should know atleast something about them...
14:27<ln->"almost like"... that's quite far-fetched
14:27<Gonozal_VIII>hmm they're rich and you're poor?^^
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14:27<LA[lord]>yes, they are poor and we are rich...
14:28<LA[lord]>actually, there is no big GAP anymore... The just didn't have 50 years of Soviet occupation..
14:29<ln->also we don't have a 50% russian minority in the country.
14:29<LA[lord]>we don't too
14:30<@Bjarni>how can 50% be a minority?
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14:30<LA[lord]>1. 50% isn't minority 2. We have about 1/3
14:31<ln->Bjarni: minority = a group that speaks a language which is not an official language of the country
14:32*dih waves
14:32<Gonozal_VIII>hehe then we have a huge austrian minority here
14:32<Gonozal_VIII>official language is german... nobody speaks that :-)
14:32<dih>huge minority...
14:32<dih>ich ich ich
14:33<dih>but i aint austrian
14:33<@Bjarni>then what are you? Russian?
14:33<ln->we also shouldn't forget the kangaroo minority of austria.
14:34<Gonozal_VIII>oh noes... poor you
14:34<dih>yes - living in germany is a pain ^^
14:37<LA[lord]>dih: Come further north then :P
14:37<@Bjarni>come on
14:37<dih>i would love to move to sweden ^^
14:37<@Bjarni>I will show you what a "warm" welcome during the winter is
14:37<@Bjarni>remember your swimming suit if you don't want to be naked
14:38<ln->achtung, ein österreich-youtube-link:
14:38<LA[lord]>well.. our winter here has been VERY warm :(.. it once dropped to -15 butit's about 0 all the winter now..
14:38<LA[lord]>*no off topic YouTube links* :P
14:38<ln->LA[lord]: this is on-topic.
14:38<LA[lord]>and so what?
14:39<ln->LA[lord]: was sagen sie?
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14:39<hylje>i did have a console open
14:39<LA[lord]>sagen? sie?
14:39<dih>LA[lord] sagt scheisse
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14:39<Gonozal_VIII>wer sie?
14:39<LA[lord]>I have english- german auto-translator..
14:40<@Bjarni>you mean Engrish-German translator?
14:40<ln->LA[lord]: meinen sie daß sie kein deutsch selbst verstehen können?
14:40<Sacro>oh learry?
14:40<LA[lord]>They believe that they themselves do not understand German?
14:40<hylje>so i got a backtrace and a partial memory map
14:41<dih> <-- loriot - der sprechende hund
14:41<Gonozal_VIII>translate it a few times back and forth, that's fun
14:42<LA[lord]>*| use English |*.. please :(
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14:44<ln->LA[lord]: miks sä ei räägib saksa keeles?
14:45<LA[lord]>because I can't... Just as you can't speak Estonian :P
14:46<LA[lord]>although I admit you tried...
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14:46<ln->mä omab eesti keele õpik.
14:47<ln->though i don't have it here now.
14:47<LA[lord]>mul on eesti keele õpik * :D
14:48<ln->funny, so it would have been closer to finnish than i imagined.
14:49<LA[lord]>and we generally don't have two-letter words what ends with ä, ö, ü, õ
14:49<LA[lord]>so your first sentence would have been Miks sa ei räägi saksa keeles and the second as I told you
14:52<LA[lord]>arrgghh. tomorrow school again :( I should go get some sleep
14:53<LA[lord]>good night
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15:06<CIA-1>OpenTTD: miham * r11852 /trunk/src/lang/ (4 files):
15:06<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2008-01-14 21:05:38
15:06<CIA-1>OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 36 changed by fukumori (36)
15:06<CIA-1>OpenTTD: korean - 1 fixed by leejaeuk5 (1)
15:06<CIA-1>OpenTTD: piglatin - 20 fixed by adammw (20)
15:06<CIA-1>OpenTTD: portuguese - 1 fixed by nars (1)
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15:19<weirdy>FECK ME
15:19<weirdy>how many are there in here?
15:20<@Belugas>as many as here in here :)
15:20<Gonozal_VIII>one more since you joined
15:21-!-weirdy [] has left #openttd [OTTD Smells. With so many people in such a small space...]
15:21<Gonozal_VIII>and same as before again
15:21<MiHaMiX>yet another b*start
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15:23<mcbane>funny one ..
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15:30<CIA-1>OpenTTD: bjarni * r11853 /trunk/ ( config.lib configure):
15:30<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix [r11837]: [OSX] reconfigure killed the space in shared-dir
15:30<CIA-1>OpenTTD: Thanks to TrueLight for finding the solution to this one
15:30<CIA-1>OpenTTD: Note: if the shared-dir setting is already broken due to this then you have to manually run configure again
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15:52<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r11854 /trunk/src/widgets/dropdown_type.h: -Fix (r11848): Nightly build farm showed up more compiler warnings... c++ is fun
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15:54<dih>"c++ is fun" <-- lol
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15:57*dih waves
15:59<skidd13>Is a lifeguard in here someone seems to need it
15:59<skidd13>/me points to the waving dih
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16:00*skidd13 pats dih on his head ... ;)
16:00<dih>i needed that
16:00*orudge is a lifeguard
16:00<@orudge>I was
16:00<@orudge>my qualification has expired now
16:00<dih>although that is my line
16:00<@orudge>but I still have the card, and the t-shirt
16:01<skidd13>orudge: Same here
16:01<lws1984>well, the t-shirt is the most important bit
16:01<Prof_Frink>And the big chair?
16:02<@orudge>Don't have that, alas.
16:02<@orudge>I don't have the keys or the whistle, either
16:02<@orudge>had to give those back in
16:04<Chrill>it's a shame orudge goes spam-a-lot in #openttd nowadays
16:05<Wezz6400>is there another way to stop a forked openttd except for killing it with its pid?
16:05*Chrill was intelligent enough to keep his GRFs when he reinstalled the computer, but not his savegame
16:06*orudge understands not Chrill
16:06<ben_goodger>perhaps you randomly burst into songs from monty python films?
16:07<@orudge>on #tycoon, yes
16:07<@orudge>but never on #openttd
16:07<lws1984>Always loook on the briight side of life!
16:07<lws1984>*do-do, do-do, do-do-do-do-dodo*
16:07<Noldo>we're knights of the round table...
16:08*Bjarni makes a cut in the table
16:08<@orudge>Half a bee, philosophically
16:08<@Bjarni>now it's not round anymore :P
16:08<@orudge>must ipso facto half not be
16:08<lws1984>We're knights of the irregularly-shaped table...
16:08<Noldo>orudge: that's so my favourite!
16:08<@orudge>I'm a lumberjack and I'm okay
16:08<lws1984>Beat that, Bjarni.
16:08<ben_goodger>we're knights of the toroid table...
16:08<Noldo>"Cyril Conelly?"
16:08<@orudge>No, semi-carnally!
16:08<lws1984>He puts on women's clothing, and hangs around in baars!...that makes Sacro a lumberjack, then.
16:09*Bjarni burns the table
16:09<@Bjarni>now you don't have a table anymore
16:09<lws1984>We're knights of the ashen table!
16:09<Sacro>tis ilke #tycoon in here
16:09<@Bjarni>Sacro: I was thinking the same thing. I just showed up
16:09<@Bjarni>and now I will hurry away again
16:09-!-Chrill [] has quit [Quit: Besides, snow really should be banned worldwide..]
16:09<@Bjarni>this appears to be dangerous for a healthy mind
16:10<lws1984>Healthy mind?
16:10<lws1984>What's that?
16:10<ben_goodger>we're knights of the {mass of CO2 and particulate exhaust that previously constituted the round table and a suitable quantity of dioxide}
16:10<lws1984>now you're just being silly.
16:10<@Bjarni>silly enough to be on the news
16:10<Rexxars>we are the keepers of the sacred words ni, peng and nywhom!
16:11<ben_goodger>I'm rather hyperactive this evening following some rather exciting research on industrial carbonic chemistry
16:11<@orudge>spam, anyone?
16:11<ben_goodger>spam fritters, please.
16:11<ben_goodger>and a parrot
16:11<@orudge>I only have this dead one, I'm fraid
16:11<@Bjarni>like some researcher who just discovered that rotting leaves releases more CO2 than the tree absorbed during it's lifetime so removing the trees would reduce CO2 emissions
16:12<Prof_Frink>The norwegian blue?
16:12<@Bjarni>now that's bullshit
16:12<@orudge>Prof_Frink: beautiful plumage
16:12<Prof_Frink>The plumage doesn't come into it!
16:12*orudge waits
16:12<Prof_Frink>This is an ex-parrot.
16:12<lws1984>This is an ex-parrot!
16:13<lws1984>oh damn.
16:13<Prof_Frink>It has ceased to be.
16:13<ben_goodger>Bjarni: no, it's leaf mulch :) but the principle is identicle
16:13<lws1984>What kind of a bloody cheese shop is this?
16:13<@orudge>no, no
16:13<@orudge>"it's stone dead"
16:13<ben_goodger>does any productive work occur in this channel?
16:13*Prof_Frink was doing it in a notthenineoclocknews style
16:13<@Bjarni>the trunk contains carbon taken from the air so the leaves would have to contain less carbon than taken from the air. The leaves can't produce more CO2 molecules than it has carbon atoms so it has to release less CO2 than it took from the air in the first place
16:13<skidd13>ben_goodger: If asked yes
16:14<@Bjarni>it's like building with Lego
16:15<@Bjarni>if you build something out of 10 blocks and you take 5 away you can't make the remaining part spray out say 12 blocks (forget about breaking them. Rotting leaves don't split carbon atoms)
16:15<Prof_Frink>And if they did, they wouldn't be carbon
16:15<@Bjarni>that too
16:15<Prof_Frink>So basically the most environmentall friendly thing is furniture
16:15<ben_goodger>though they could legitimately be C-14
16:16<ben_goodger>which would split into C-12 and... something else
16:16<@Bjarni>so how can you get funded to do research like that and then enter the news with such a "breakthough" discovery?
16:16<@Bjarni>it sure took everybody by surprise because trees are supposed to reduce CO2 levels not increase it
16:16<@orudge>I blame Apple, they went and released a whole pile of carbon into the atmosphere. And then they're exploiting third world farmers with cocoa.
16:16*orudge shall get his coat
16:16<ben_goodger>Bjarni: it involves the word "carbon"
16:17*ben_goodger opens door for orudge
16:17*lws1984 makes orudge Carbon-compatible
16:17<@Bjarni>yeah... it's likely something that stupid
16:17<ben_goodger>on second thoughts,
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16:17<Prof_Frink>ben_goodger: "Carbon" is the new "Terrorism"
16:17<@orudge>we're going to have a war in the rainforest?
16:17<@Bjarni>I read that some researchers wants to use solar light to split CO2 into CO and then use CO as fuel
16:18<Prof_Frink>Put it into the title of your project to get funding
16:18<ben_goodger>Bjarni: this is precisely what I was researching. it's actually ludicrously easy
16:18<@Bjarni>my first thought was "CO is really dangerous... what if the machinery leaks... it's without colour or smell and it breaks the oxygen transportation ability in the blood so you become tired"
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16:19<@Bjarni>ben_goodger: you do research?
16:19<ben_goodger>however, you wouldn't use the CO directly: you can quite simply convert it to saturated hydrocarbons, from where it easily becomes ethanol or ordinary gasoline
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16:19<ben_goodger>or diesel, though that's less easy
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16:20<ln->"Ett Ryanairplan på väg från Dublin till Tampere i Finland nödlandade strax före lunchtid på Skavsta flygplats, detta sedan piloterna fått en indikation om ett hydraulikfel."
16:20<@Bjarni>the question is if we want to produce diesel. It's not like it's clean to burn as it is now
16:20<ben_goodger>actually, diesel is very clean-burning
16:21<@Bjarni>however I presume it would be free of impurities like sulphur
16:21<ben_goodger>the problem is that current blends of diesel oil is full of sulphur and other things I am calling particulate exhaust to avoid having to learn what they're actually called
16:22<ben_goodger>basically, given a ready source of CO and H2O (as well as a huge quantity of energy) one can quite easily synthesise a range of reasonably short alkanes (i.e. up to dodecane (diesel))
16:22<ben_goodger>it is not economically viable, as the energy would almost certainly come from burning hydrocarbons in the first place
16:22<@Bjarni>but where would the energy come from?
16:23<@Bjarni>is it a process you can start and stop quickly so you do it say while the wind is blowing?
16:23<ben_goodger>and there is little point in burning hydrocarbons to power a machine that makes a lot less hydrocarbons
16:23<@Bjarni>so it's kind of a stored wind energy system... that would be interesting
16:23<ben_goodger>no, it takes a fair while to get going - requires quite large heat and pressure, plus electricity to electrolyse the H2O
16:23<@Bjarni>the question is what is the efficiency compared to batteries and hydrogen
16:24<@Bjarni>I think hydrogen will win in the long run
16:24<ben_goodger>unfortunately, proper hydrogen fuel cells cost a huge amount and has a ridiculously tiny energy density, as does lithium-ion battery technology
16:25<ben_goodger>gasoline, for instance, stores roughly 35 times more energy per litre than a lithium ion battery, which is the reason that current battery vehicles have tiny ranges
16:26<@Bjarni>ever seen a tesla roadster? It has a decent range
16:26<@Bjarni>and high top speed
16:26<ben_goodger>top speed is not an issue
16:26<ben_goodger>you can basically just keep building bigger motoros
16:26<ben_goodger>it's unfortunate especially considering the extremely improved efficiency, reliability and acceleration of an electric motor as opposed to an otto engine, but current electricity storage systems are simply inadequate
16:27<@orudge>I was reading about the Roadster a few weeks ago, rather impressive looking
16:27<@orudge>shame about the technical hitches
16:27<@Bjarni>220 miles on a charge... I guess it depends on how you are driving but it's a usable range
16:27<ben_goodger>and cars have relatively tiny range requirements compared to things like aeroplanes and ships
16:27<@Bjarni>I don't see ocean travelling container ships using batteries
16:27*peter1138 ponders an wind powered oil tanker...
16:28<@Bjarni>technically possible
16:28<ben_goodger>so really, the only viable solution is to synthesise diesel and such
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16:29<ben_goodger>if we had a free energy source, it would be economically viable. unfortunately, it is not - perhaps some hydroelectrically powered system
16:29<ben_goodger>or we could just use my imitation perpetual motion machine
16:29<@Bjarni>ben_goodger: I'm not so sure... you are saying that we should stick to fossil fuels (and produce them ourselves when they run out). Sounds like the steam engine lobby when the diesel engine started to be used
16:30<ben_goodger>not really
16:30<ben_goodger>we simply cannot use anything else
16:30<@peter1138>nuclear powered oil tankers
16:30<ben_goodger>how can you power an aeroplane on anything but kerosene?
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16:30<ben_goodger>(or similar)
16:31<@Bjarni> <ben_goodger> how can you power an aeroplane on anything but kerosene? <-- NASA did it with solar power
16:31<ben_goodger>link me
16:31<@Bjarni>it has unlimited range but I think it lacked cargo space
16:31<Prof_Frink>And wasn't the fastest
16:32<@Bjarni>it's not commercially usable but it works
16:32<@Bjarni>and it's a start
16:33<ben_goodger>that wingspan is unfeasible
16:33<ben_goodger>you'll need a light aircraft to get between airport terminals
16:35<@Bjarni>it needs that wingspan to get to the extreme altitude that it's designed for
16:35<ben_goodger>oh, and we can't forget the inestimable cost of retrofitting 800bn existing oil-powered vehicles
16:35<skidd13>@seen LA*
16:35<@DorpsGek>skidd13: LA* could be LA[lord] (1 hour, 42 minutes, and 22 seconds ago), LA[resurrected] (4 hours, 50 minutes, and 48 seconds ago), LA[KoRn] (5 hours, 4 minutes, and 29 seconds ago), Lachie (1 day, 13 hours, 1 minute, and 47 seconds ago), LA[lord]_ (1 week, 0 days, 1 hour, 45 minutes, and 50 seconds ago), LA[Stop_spam] (1 week, 1 day, 2 hours, and 51 seconds ago), LA[Azamath] (1 week, 2 days, 1 hour, 14 minutes, and (2 more messages)
16:35<@DorpsGek>skidd13: 3 seconds ago), LA|Eater (1 week, 2 days, 4 hours, 44 minutes, and 42 seconds ago), LA[lallalala] (1 week, 2 days, 4 hours, 47 minutes, and 30 seconds ago), LA[STOP_SPAM|AWAY] (1 week, 2 days, 4 hours, 59 minutes, and 4 seconds ago), LA[stop_tab-spam] (1 week, 2 days, 5 hours, 27 minutes, and 11 seconds ago), LA[stop_nick-spam] (1 week, 2 days, 5 hours, 58 minutes, and 55 seconds ago), LA[AL] (1 week, 2 (1 more message)
16:35<@DorpsGek>skidd13: days, 6 hours, 41 minutes, and 52 seconds ago), laz0r (2 weeks, 0 days, 2 hours, 7 minutes, and 20 seconds ago), LA[I_want_Orange_Box] (2 weeks, 3 days, 5 hours, 30 minutes, and 2 seconds ago), lag (19 weeks, 3 days, 0 hours, 5 minutes, and 49 seconds ago), or laci (24 weeks, 5 days, 10 hours, 40 minutes, and 22 seconds ago)
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16:36<ben_goodger>anywho, I'm off to finish my perpetual motion machine diagram. "investors can put your money in the hole in the floor"
16:36<@Bjarni>ben_goodger: it looks like you are missing the point. Nobody wants to do that at this stage
16:37<ben_goodger>nobody can do that at this stage, and nobody will
16:37<ben_goodger>the entire economy of, at least, the united states is designed to function with ever-increasing supplies of petrochemicals
16:38<@Bjarni>and that's part of the economical issue these days
16:38<@Bjarni>US economy is too dependant on oil prices
16:38<ben_goodger>manufacturing industries probably could convert to electric power. plastics are made from petrochemicals, as are fertilisers
16:39-!-wiese [] has left #openttd []
16:39<ben_goodger>the question of how to grow and distribute food across five developed continents without the aid of huge quantities of oil has, as yet, not been successfully answered
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16:40<@Bjarni>the question is why we can't accept eating more local food
16:40<@Bjarni>why do our food has to have seen more of the world than we have?
16:41<ben_goodger>let me tell you about local food
16:41<@Bjarni>that would be a good place to start
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16:42<@Bjarni>we will eat more local food as the oil prices and hence the transport prices raises
16:42<@Bjarni>transporting is too cheap
16:42<ben_goodger>if you buy scampi in the UK that is caught in scotland, it goes by truck to a local port before going to thailand to be shelled. it then is reimported and distributed around the country, still being "caught in scotland"
16:42<@orudge>well, you could buy it from a local market or whatever
16:42<@orudge>instead of from a supermarket
16:43<ben_goodger>there aren't any
16:43<ben_goodger>at least, none that I've ever seen
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16:45<@Bjarni>that's not what I meant about local food
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16:45<ben_goodger>anyway, as previously stated I must go and finish my perpetual motion machine diagram
16:45<@Bjarni>it's a very good example of how not to do
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16:47<@Bjarni>like the country in Africa where cotton is the main income and they sell it really cheap to other countries. Germany then buys a lot of it, wash it and sells it for a high price to where it was grown. They are too poor to build real washing facilities locally so they can't really afford to buy their own cotton back
16:47<@Bjarni>I forgot which countries this is... It's in the west somewhere
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16:49<@Bjarni>no... some African countries that lies in the western part of Africa
16:49<@orudge>[21:43:04] <ben_goodger> there aren't any
16:49<@orudge>[21:43:14] <ben_goodger> at least, none that I've ever seen
16:49<@orudge>you live in a deprived town, I guess
16:50<@orudge>Mold and St Andrews certainly have local butchers/fishmongers and markets
16:50<@orudge>and Kirkwall too
16:50<@orudge>those are the only towns I've lived in in recent years
16:50<@orudge>(in or near, anyway)
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16:52<ben_goodger>I live in what is apparently the poorest county of western europe
16:53<Eddi|zuHause2>that probably depends by which statistics you judge ;)
16:53<@Bjarni>ben_goodger: Ireland?
16:58<Dominik>what's the reason for #define DEBUG_DUMP_COMMANDS in stdafx.h? is it for debug purposes only?
16:59<@Bjarni>sure sounds like it
16:59<skidd13>Dominik: yed for debug usage. (To find hard to reproducable errors)
17:00<@Bjarni>Dominik: in other words: you shouldn't care about it
17:00<@Bjarni>at least not for a while
17:00<Dominik>i think it might be the cause of the bug i have been working on all day... so, yes i should
17:00<Dominik>confirmed, that bug cost me ~8 hours of debugging
17:01<@Belugas>night all
17:01*Belugas goes home
17:01<@orudge>ta ta
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17:11<GoneWacko>now you know
17:11<GoneWacko>meh wrong channel
17:11<skidd13>wooo my 500 post in the forums
17:15<ln->syntax error
17:16<Eddi|zuHause2>he said he posted a 500 in the forums, where is the syntax error?
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17:21<ln->Bjarni: alert! it seems that apple might be abandoning slot-loading optical drives on macbooks!
17:21<@Bjarni>I know
17:22<@Bjarni>I read the rumours too
17:22<@Bjarni>I also read that they wanted to make a 50" TV with OSX in it so you could check main and stuff on it
17:22<@Bjarni>that didn't happen at the date it said it would
17:23<ln->and they're going to make macbooks aluminium grey.. :/
17:23<@orudge>[22:21:20] <ln-> Bjarni: alert! it seems that apple might be abandoning slot-loading optical drives on macbooks! <-- I had fun with a disc getting stuck in mine some time ago
17:23<@orudge>I did manage to coax it out eventually
17:23<@orudge>but it was a bit hairy
17:24<@Bjarni>I'm not too found of slot loading drives
17:25<@Bjarni>I had mine replaced right away on warranty. It had a 50/50 chance of ejecting the disc when I requested it (hardware failure)
17:25<@orudge>speaking of things like that
17:25<@orudge>I need to get my battery fixed/replaced
17:25<@orudge>while my power adaptor was dead, my battery managed to entirely discharge (I'd basically run it down a bit too much, it seems) and now the MacBook doesn't recognise it
17:25<ln->you are the duracell bunny?
17:26<@Bjarni>power adaptor died?
17:26<@Bjarni>that sucks
17:26<@Bjarni>it happened to my PowerBook 5300
17:26<@Bjarni>and "funny" enough they had to order a new one. They didn't have a single one in the country >_<
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17:27<Prof_Frink>Someone should mod slotloading drives to fire ninja stars
17:30<Osai>Bjarni: is openttd compatible to os x 10.5 yet?
17:30<Osai>and btw. hi :-)
17:30<@Bjarni>sort of
17:31<@Bjarni>the screen driver is slower
17:31<Osai>yep, I remember that
17:31<@Bjarni>apart from that all serious issues should be solved by now
17:32<@Bjarni>but... I have only seen 10.5 once... and that was on the computers in a mac store
17:32<@Bjarni>needless to say I didn't go there to code and debug ;)
17:32*ln- compiled OpenTTD on 10.5 the day it was released.
17:33<ln->well, tried.
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17:33<Osai>I guy at our channel is reporting issues
17:33<Osai>but he is not familiar. neither with openttd and nor with os x
17:33<@Bjarni>not to mention adding a perfectly valid sentence in Engrish
17:33<@Bjarni>wtf do you mean? :)
17:34<Osai>engrish :p
17:34<@Bjarni>oh... you mean a random visitor claims to have issues on 10.5
17:34*orudge hasn't yet upgrades to 10.5
17:35<@Bjarni> <-- this is official Engrish
17:36<Osai>okay. our random visitor is trying to fetch the error
17:36<Osai>I hope he finds the console
17:36<ln->use the pastebin!
17:36<@Bjarni>Osai: <-- if you want to write Engrish... then this is what you are up against
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17:54<Dominik>which pathfinder uses the least memory and which is the fastest (computation-wise)? i don't care about finding good routes.
17:54<+glx>the old one
17:56<Dominik>is that the one simply called TrackPathFinder?
17:57<+glx>the one in pathfind.cpp
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18:15<Sacro>so... PBS
18:15<Sacro>which is the best patch currently
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18:17<Sacro>@seen fjb
18:17<@DorpsGek>Sacro: fjb was last seen in #openttd 20 hours, 6 minutes, and 53 seconds ago: * fjb would prefer a monorail maglev.
18:17<Sacro>oh foo
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18:20<Rubidium>Sacro: I guess TTDPatch is currently best w.r.t. PBS
18:23<Eddi|zuHause2>but behind the seven hills, with the seven dwarfs...
18:23<Sacro>Rubidium: but i don't like patch, i like open :(
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18:24<Eddi|zuHause2>that doesn't even rhyme in english
18:24<Eddi|zuHause2>how does that story go in the english translation?
18:25<Rubidium>Sacro: you asked for the best patch with PBS
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18:26<Sacro>right, i've got trains to crash
18:27<Sacro>right, i need some more signalling grfs
18:27<Sacro>it looks quite easy to implement yellow signals
18:28-!-Zr40 [~zr40@2001:960:786:0:21b:63ff:fe9e:ab24] has quit [Quit: Zr40]
18:31<Wezz6400>yellow signals, sounds like a great idea to me
18:32<Wezz6400>nothing looks more stupid than train heading for a red signal with 160 KM/h
18:35<Sacro>Wezz6400: well... i need some grfs drawing :D
18:35<Wezz6400>don't look at me
18:36<Wezz6400>I cannot draw, even the guy that draws xkcd can draw better than me
18:37<Prof_Frink>Wezz6400: Well, xkcd is made of pure awesome
18:38<lws1984>even if it is bad drawing
18:38<Wezz6400>oh very true
18:38<Wezz6400>however my drawings just plain suck
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18:40<ln->Bjarni: what's your editor?
18:41<@Bjarni>it depends on what I'm doing
18:41<@Bjarni>usually Xcode
18:42<@Bjarni>all my commit messages are written in pico though
18:42<ln->you mean nano?
18:42<Sacro>zomg lobster
18:43<@Bjarni>ln-: btw maybe you can be helpful. I just learned that the nightly build server produces binaries that fails on 10.5
18:43<@Bjarni>when I compiled the very same rev and sent it to the guy with the issue it worked
18:43<@Bjarni>I can execute the binary from the nightly build
18:43<ln->fail.. do they crash or do not even start?
18:43<@Bjarni>fail to start
18:44<@Bjarni>not a proper binary
18:44<@Bjarni> 14/01/2008 22:40:43[105] ([0x0-0x348348].org.openttd.openttd[24427]) posix_spawnp("/Users/Daniel/Desktop/OTTD-macosx-intel-nightly-r11838/", ...): Bad executable (or shared library)
18:44<@Bjarni>and I have no idea why
18:44<ln->let me guess it's a mismatch of libiconv.dylib versions.
18:44<ln->assuming libiconv is used.
18:44<@Bjarni>it is
18:45<@Bjarni>but then why did the binary I made work
18:45<@Bjarni>I'm using the same version as the nightly build server
18:45<@Bjarni>well... I was thinking that you have access to 10.5. I don't
18:45<Rubidium>Bjarni: that
18:45<@Bjarni>maybe you could figure out why it fails
18:46<Rubidium>Bjarni: that's what I'm thinking is not the case
18:46<ln->hmmm, actually it's probably not about libiconv, because that problem arises only if you try to run something on 10.4 that is compiled on 10.5.
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18:46<ln->Bjarni: when i get to work tomorrow, i'll look at it.
18:46<@Bjarni>I think I ruled out lib issues
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18:47<@Bjarni><ln-> hmmm, actually it's probably not about libiconv, because that problem arises only if you try to run something on 10.4 that is compiled on 10.5. <-- this is why SDKs should be used ;)
18:47<ln->or i could even download it now and look what it says
18:47<@Bjarni>no hurry
18:47<Rubidium>Bjarni: are you sure your compiler links them against exactly the same libraries? I can imaging OSX has some lingering around
18:48<@Bjarni>since the compile farm kept failing and needed to be more and more modified we ended up giving it a full mac file system (when it comes to libraries, that is)
18:48<@Bjarni>so it should be the same as all macs running 10.4
18:49<ln->-bash: ./ cannot execute binary file
18:49<ln->./ Mach-O executable i386
18:51<@Bjarni>I need to sleep now
18:51<@Bjarni>I was heading for bed when this issue showed up
18:51-!-lolman [] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
18:51<@Bjarni>an hour ago
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18:52<@Bjarni>well... if anybody get any ideas on stuff to check then it would be most welcome
18:52<@Bjarni>I'm out of ideas :(
18:52-!-Bjarni [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
18:53<ln->and now he's gone
18:53<ln->here's the answer:
18:53<Sacro>but he'll return
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18:54<ln->i doubt that
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19:04<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r11855 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_house.cpp newgrf_house.h openttd.cpp town_cmd.cpp): -Fix [FS#1335]: recompute town population when removing a 'newhouses' grf, or when loading a game with missing 'newhouses' grfs
19:05-!-Zahl [] has quit [Quit: Windows shutdown) ((~_~]"]
19:11<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r11856 /trunk/src/ (date.cpp stdafx.h): -Revert (r11772): since FS#1335 is solved, we do not need the extra checking and such anymore.
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19:48<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11857 /trunk/src/widgets/dropdown_type.h: -Fix: some compile time warnings.
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21:38<ln->i know a workaround for the nightlies Leopard issue.
21:38<lws1984>do tell!
21:38<ln->what? you have a mac and you have an issue?
21:39<lws1984>Yes, as in, nightlies don't work on Leopard
21:39<ln->according to very minimal testing, i propose the following workaround: use the PPC binary.
21:39<lws1984>i'll try that once i feel like it...
21:41<Sacro>damnit i need to sleep
21:41<Sacro>instead i'm watching threshold
21:41<Sacro>despite the fact i know it got cancelled
21:41<Sacro>thus i'll never know the ending
21:54<Jortuny>yeah, the ppc binary works fine
21:54<Jortuny>(on leopard)
21:57<@Belugas>ln, yopu might want to share your findings and maybe your patches with bjarni an egladil
21:58<ln->there's no 24/7 bjarni here, unfortunately.
21:58*roboman away
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---Logclosed Tue Jan 15 00:00:31 2008