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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-01-15

---Logopened Tue Jan 15 00:00:31 2008
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02:24<LA[lord]>I managed to breath in a big quantity of CO thius morning..
02:24<LA[lord]>so I won't be going to school
02:24<LA[lord]>atleast now...
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02:32<@peter1138>er, whoops?
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02:42<SpComb>Logs: (old: )
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03:14<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r11858 /trunk/src/widgets/dropdown.cpp: -Fix (r1679): Mask and rule colour in drop down lists using wrong source value. (r1679 partially reverted r1368)
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04:06*Rubidium ponders what 'a big quantity' is
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05:28<egladil>[15 03:57 CET] Belugas ln, yopu might want to share your findings and maybe your patches with bjarni an egladil <== share :)
05:37<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r11859 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_station.cpp newgrf_station.h rail_gui.cpp): -Codechange: Update newgrf station class dropdown to use new method of generating list.
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06:01<ln->egladil: the nightlies cannot be executed on Leopard,
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06:04<egladil>that means the compile farm has to be updated (again)...
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06:34<dihedral>good (?:(?:mor|eve)ning|afternoon)
06:35<@peter1138>good day
06:36<Forked>g'day :)
06:36<Rubidium>oh noes
06:37<Rubidium>isn't 'oh noes' #openttd slang for hello?
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06:38<@peter1138>i don't know
06:39<pv2b>dihedral: add good day and good night to that regex :-)
06:43<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r11860 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Fix: Test station class validity against number of classes, not abosolute limit.
06:45<dihedral>anybody got a good idea how i can split an integer into all separate bits?
06:45<dihedral>go to school LA
06:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r11861 /trunk/src/tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp: -Fix: do not call rail specific functions when removing road tunnel/bridge
06:45<dihedral>you can - you just dont _have_ to
06:45<LA[no_school_today]>I breathed in alot CO this morning, and I'm kinda out of rails today
06:46<LA[no_school_today]>so I have to, but can't
06:46<LA[no_school_today]>like CO2
06:46<SmatZ>LA[no_school_today]: do you breath CO for fun?
06:46<dihedral>carbon monoxide?
06:46<dihedral>have another snuff - obviously was not enough
06:47<dihedral>c'mon you code junkies...
06:47<LA[no_school_today]>actually my brother tried cooking and it didn't work out so well.. And he didn't open the windows
06:47<LA[no_school_today]>so I woke up in a blue smoke
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06:47<dihedral>interger split up into it's bits
06:48<pv2b>dihedral: an integer into seperate bits?
06:48<dihedral>fast and efficient
06:48<dihedral>5 = 4 and 1
06:48<pv2b>the naive way would be something like
06:48<dihedral>and processing a string is the last thing i want to do
06:49<pv2b>def tobinary(x) { if (x & 1) s = "1"; else s = "0"; return tobinary(x>>2).s; }
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06:50<dihedral>yes - and i want to process that for i dont know how high it goes
06:50<pv2b>dihedral: what do you mean?
06:50<dihedral>i dont want to process it like that
06:51<pv2b>you can just keep it around in an integer and process it bit by bit. accessing individual bits in an integer isn't that hard
06:51<dihedral>yes - but isn't that nice either
06:51<pv2b>!!(x & (1 << n)) where n is the integer will give you the binary digit at the position n in the integer x
06:52<pv2b>you can wrap that in some syntactic sugar if you want
06:52<pv2b>depends which language you're writing in
06:52<dihedral>a language that actually does not have all that much 'syntactic sugar'
06:52<dihedral>php ^^
06:52<pv2b>oh. :-)
06:52<pv2b>even php has functions though
06:53<dihedral>it close to _only_ has functions
06:54<pv2b>get_bit(x,n) { return (x & (1<<n)) ? 1 : 0; }
06:54<pv2b>my php is syntax is a bit rusty but you know what i mean
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06:56<pv2b>or just write it in pic assembler instead. then you can use BSF, BCF, BTFSS and BTFSC ;-)
06:57<pv2b>btw, counting the number of digits in a binary number is pretty easy to do with a binary (pun not intended) search
06:57<pv2b>or if you're lazy you could just use a logarithm
07:03<dihedral>and the highest set bit?
07:03<dihedral>so in your example n = 0 to highest set bit
07:03<pv2b>highest set bit in php
07:03<dihedral>the ugliest i could think of would be strlen( bindec( x ) )
07:03<pv2b>floor(log(x, 2))
07:04<pv2b>that might not work very well though, floating point rounding and stuff
07:04<dihedral>for the example of 5 that retunes 2
07:04<dihedral>and that clearly is not correct ^^
07:04<pv2b>5 = 101
07:04<pv2b>bit number 2 is the msb
07:05*dihedral slaps himself
07:05<pv2b>but don't actually use that method, you'll run into trouble with large numbers
07:05<pv2b>can you describe what you're trying to do rather than asking how to do what you think is the right solution? :-)
07:06<dihedral>i have a table in an sql db where a history is stored of actions done via the admin frontend
07:07<dihedral>actions are stored bit wise
07:07<pv2b>what's the structure of the bitfield?
07:07<dihedral>so - reading a certain customer ticket could be action 4
07:07<dihedral>writing = 1
07:07<dihedral>so changing the ticket = 5
07:07<pv2b>so, why don't you just do something like
07:08<reto_>hmm.. why do you store bitfileds in a sql table?
07:08<reto_>why don't you use boolean fields?
07:08<pv2b>ticket_read = bf & 4
07:08<pv2b>ticket_written = bf & 1
07:08<dihedral>action & 5 in the sql statement to get the last write access of customer tickets
07:08<reto_>I have just read the last sentence, I dont no the context
07:08<dihedral>will also return 4
07:08<dihedral>because 5 & 4 = 4
07:08<@peter1138>bit :D
07:08<@peter1138>stores a 1 or a 0
07:09<@peter1138>let the sql server handle the storage
07:09<@peter1138>on the other hand
07:09<pv2b>peter1138: i don't think he's in the position to change the schema :-/
07:09<@peter1138>i've know people store boolean values as varchars with the values "True" and "False" ...
07:09<dihedral>it's an integer field
07:09<pv2b>peter1138: :-D..
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07:10<dihedral>makes it easier to read when you need to run selects on the command line ^^
07:10<reto_>a great
07:10<pv2b>dihedral: ok, so you have the integer field. now what do you want to know about it? whether somebody wrote to the customer record or what?
07:10<dihedral>it's easier to catch it in the method that builds the query
07:10<reto_>lets wag the dog
07:11<dihedral>i want to get the last write access for a certain action
07:11<dihedral>as there are custom action 'ids'
07:11<dihedral>i.e. > 1024
07:11<dihedral>which will be defined by 1024 | 4 = custom action of customer ticket
07:12<dihedral>1024 | 4 | 1 = custom action of customer ticket was a write ^^
07:12<dihedral>assume 1024 was a note one could attach to the ticket
07:12<dihedral>then 1024 | 4 was read
07:12<dihedral>1024 | 4 | 1 was write
07:13<dihedral>and 1024 | 8 could be something completetly different ^^
07:13<pv2b>that sounds like a rather convoluted design
07:13<@peter1138>let's store openttd's data in sql!
07:13<pv2b>or you're not explaining it so i understand it :-)
07:13<dihedral>that could well be true ^^
07:13<dihedral>both in fact could be true ^^
07:14<pv2b>i'm not an epert with SQL but couldn't you use a SQL where clause to test for that?
07:14<pv2b>or doesnt the WHERE clause support bitwise operators?
07:14<dihedral>that is what i tried to explain earlier
07:14<dihedral>say field = 4
07:14<dihedral>and i do where field & 5
07:14<dihedral>i still get the records returned where field = 4
07:14<dihedral>as 4 & 5 = 4
07:15<pv2b>so what's the problem? :-)
07:15<dihedral>but i also want to know about the fields where &1024
07:15<dihedral>or greater
07:15<dihedral>so rather than changing a bunch of code or the db and a bunch of code
07:15<pv2b>can't you just do <pseudo code) WHERE (field&1023) & 5
07:15<dihedral>i thought i'd split up the int when it hits the method where the statement is built
07:15<pv2b>or WHERE (field & 5) OR field > 1024
07:16<dihedral>the method only is passed one int
07:16<dihedral>hence i want to split it up
07:16<pv2b>so.... split it up
07:16<dihedral>so then i can build a where field = bit for every bit set in int
07:17<dihedral>where field & bit
07:17<pv2b>or just or the bits together frst
07:17<dihedral>i.e. select * from table where field & 1 and field & 4
07:17<pv2b>whre field & 5 == 5
07:17<dihedral>field & (1|4)
07:18<pv2b>field & 5 isn't the same as field & 5 = 5
07:18<dihedral>with == 5 i deont get those fields that are 1024 | 4 | 1
07:18<dihedral>and it does not end with 1024
07:18<pv2b>so then use an or.
07:18<dihedral>it does not give the the result's that i am looking for in the sql select
07:20<pv2b>ok, just a minute. you want to find lines in the table where bitfield matches which conditions (in plain english)
07:20<dihedral>but 4 & 5 is a match
07:20<pv2b>that was not plain english
07:20<pv2b>what do you want to look for
07:21<dihedral>where every bit in 5 is set
07:21<pv2b>field & 5 == 5
07:21<dihedral>because then 1024 | 4 | 1 will not match
07:21<pv2b>yes it will
07:21<pv2b>1024|4|1 & 5 == 5
07:23<pv2b>per-von-zweigbergks-powerbook-g4-15:~ pvz$ php -r 'print (1024|4|1)&5;print "\n";'
07:23*dihedral slaps himself again
07:23<dihedral>heh - i have a g4 powerbook 12"
07:25<dihedral>thanks pv2b...
07:25<pv2b>np :-)
07:25<dihedral>dont ask me why i was thinking it would not work...
07:25<pv2b>php rots your brain
07:25<pv2b>that's why
07:25<pv2b>perfecly intelligent people become iditos when coding in php :-)
07:26<dihedral>thanks a bunch
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07:39*dihedral smiles
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07:58<roboboy>gnight soon
07:58<dihedral>who is 'soon'?
07:59<Rubidium>maybe it's his imported Thai wife
08:01<dihedral>the sentance i link to the word 'soon' and this channel is 'not in the near future' ^^
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08:03<frosch123>Hello everyone
08:04<Rubidium>do I hear a duck tour there?
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08:07<LA[no_school_today]>no, rubidium, it was dih
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08:07*LA[no_school_today] can't say 'just dih' :S
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08:09<dihedral>Rubidium: you want to tell me where you get the link between FROSH123 and a DUCK?
08:10<Rubidium>dihedral: no, I can tell you the link between 'quak' and duck tour though
08:12<dihedral>i used the german
08:12<dihedral>so you confuse german frogs with ducks?
08:13<Rubidium>no, I assumed English (with a typo)
08:13<Rubidium>quak -> quack -> a sound closely related to the duck tours
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08:15<dihedral>i can understand that
08:15<dihedral>i mix up japanese and chinese too ^^
08:16<Rubidium>that's not hard because they share a fair share of Kanji
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08:18<roboboy>when did the saving still in progress please wait message get added? Does it matter if one closes i, and what does it actually mean by please wait?
08:19<frosch123>roboboy: The debug feature you mention was removed last night, just wait for the next nightly.
08:20<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11862 /trunk/src/ (8 files in 2 dirs):
08:20<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#1559]: when two NewGRFs 'fight' to define the same cargo it could
08:20<CIA-1>OpenTTD: happen that the strings are defined by one cargo and the 'action2' by another
08:20<CIA-1>OpenTTD: and when one assumes that both come from the same NewGRF... So store the GRF ID
08:20<CIA-1>OpenTTD: with the strings. To be extra sure add the same protection mechanism to
08:20<CIA-1>OpenTTD: industries and towns too.
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08:21<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r11863 /trunk/src/widgets/dropdown.cpp: -Fix (r11848): One day I'll learn C++... Delete all items in a drop down list before deleting the list.
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08:33<roboboy>I wonder if I cn get a real media plugin for firefox without installing realplayer
08:34*Hendikins plays a 64x2048 map
08:35<Hendikins>I've got one loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong island
08:35<Hendikins>Which is actually going to be quite fun to play with once I clear off my debt and get a line running end to end
08:36<keyweed>an no need for large complicated hubs
08:36<roboboy>I once tried it with a loop and each station was a cross member
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08:37<Hendikins>keyweed: Just one long main line, balloon loop at each end, and some branches
08:37<keyweed>Hendikins: yup. that will work
08:37<keyweed>Hendikins: untill you reach the maximum capacity of your long main line
08:37<Hendikins>So you quad track it and have stuff going from one branch to another
08:37<Hendikins>It can be made to work :)
08:38<keyweed>yeah. i think it will.
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08:39<Hendikins>Might require being a bit creative
08:43<LA[lord]>Hendikins: how many industries/towns?
08:43<Hendikins>LA[lord]: High/Normal
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08:46<Forked>hmm me and a buddy have a co-op 8192x128 going :)
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08:48*Hendikins makes use of DebtMax technology to speed things up
08:50<Eddi|zuHause3>for my next game i need industries with little output and villages that have near to no growth
08:50<Eddi|zuHause3>then play with high/high
08:51<Eddi|zuHause3>so i can actually have small branch lines and truck transport to hub stations
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08:56<Hendikins>mmmm, 5 coal mines close together and quite a distance from where I'm dumping the coal. mmmmmmmmmmm.
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09:04<rave>is it distance between the resources or distance between the stations that affects profit?
09:05<Eddi|zuHause3>Hendikins: yeah, that is the plan ;)
09:05<rave>are you sure? wow
09:05<LA[lord]>anyone familiar with a program graphics gale?
09:05<Eddi|zuHause3>rave: yes i'm sure
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09:22<LA[lord]>hey Gonozal_VIII :)
09:24*Hendikins watches his train profits jump 7x within 2 years
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09:26<Gonozal_VIII>sacro, jumpQ
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09:27<Gonozal_VIII>yay, if i say jump he jumps
09:27<Eddi|zuHause3>at least you have to give him a dog-cookie now
09:27<Eddi|zuHause3>see his face?
09:28*Gonozal_VIII gives sacro a cookie
09:29<Gonozal_VIII>can you recycle empty cyanide bottles?
09:29<Gonozal_VIII>got some here from my last cookie baking..
09:30<Hendikins>Gonozal_VIII: $450k to ~$3.2mil within 2 years. Not huge sums, but for a new/small company, not bad either.
09:30<Gonozal_VIII>ah i see
09:30*Hendikins pieces his trunk line together
09:30<Gonozal_VIII>mine often jump infinity times in 1920
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09:49<frosch123>DaleStan: Is there an easy way to find out whether variables in /inc/ are signed or unsigned? Except looking at the code where they are used.
09:55<DaleStan>frosch123: Not really, but TTDPatch, for most purposes, only does signed integers in the same places that TTD does them.
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10:00<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r11864 /trunk/src/ (9 files): -Codechange: pass owner whose signals we will update instead of complex detection later
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10:10<rave>does the cargo delivery timer start when a train leaves a station or arrives?
10:10<Gonozal_VIII>when it finishes loading
10:11<rave>even if there isn't cargo waiting at the station?
10:12<Gonozal_VIII>why would it matter then?
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10:12<dihedral>LOL ln-
10:12<Gonozal_VIII>oh, you got the rest of your nick back dih
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10:19<Hendikins>Hrm, 412 days in each direction
10:20<Hendikins>At 144km/h
10:21<Gonozal_VIII>@calc 412*24*144
10:21<@DorpsGek>Gonozal_VIII: 1423872
10:22<Hendikins>1.4 million km. Impressive.
10:22<Hendikins>Probably better suited to maglev though
10:23<Gonozal_VIII>@calc 1423872/40075
10:23<@DorpsGek>Gonozal_VIII: 35.5301809108
10:23<Gonozal_VIII>35,5times around the world :-)
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10:31<Gonozal_VIII>dbset is very chaotic
10:31<fjb>In what way?
10:31<Gonozal_VIII>i tried to extract only the transrapid
10:32<Gonozal_VIII>parts of that are all over the place...
10:32<fjb>Oh, you mean the source.
10:33<fjb>I guess Michael never intended that somebody looks into the grf.
10:33<dih>@seen Bjarni
10:33<@DorpsGek>dih: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 15 hours, 41 minutes, and 11 seconds ago: <Bjarni> goodnight
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10:36<Gonozal_VIII>i guess he had comments...
10:37<Rubidium>and a preprocessor
10:37<fjb>Maybe he stripped them before releasing the grf.
10:37<Rubidium>there are two types of comments and only one gets into the grf
10:37<Gonozal_VIII>the normal // comments are removed by the codec
10:38<Ammler>Action 0c
10:38<dih>hello Ammler
10:38<dih>how was it?
10:39<Ammler>how was what?
10:39<Gonozal_VIII>what's a preprocessor?
10:39<dih>that swiss army stuff
10:39<fjb>I saw and nfo assembler and a kind of compiler released the last weeks. Is anybody using them?
10:39<dih>still on?
10:39<Ammler>hmm, not atm
10:39<Ammler>but I need still about 30 days to spent there
10:39<Eddi|zuHause3>fjb: the "compiler" is hardly finished...
10:40<dih>you get to go home in the evenings?
10:40<Gonozal_VIII>grf2html helps a lot with reading grfs
10:40<Ammler>not usually, but you can get a permission
10:40<fjb>Gonozal_VIII: Something like that:
10:41<fjb>Eddi|zuHause3: Ah, you are the author of the compiler. I didn't look at it yet.
10:41<Ammler>those 30 days will be spent there later (sommer or next year), for now, I am done :-)
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10:41<Eddi|zuHause3>swiss army... that always reminds me of that movie...
10:41<Gonozal_VIII>you have to spend 30 days in the swiss army?
10:42<Eddi|zuHause3>"Achtung! Fertig! Charlie!" or so
10:42<@DorpsGek>rave: help [<plugin>] [<command>]
10:42<Gonozal_VIII>do you have your own rifle to take home and shoot rats and guys that scratch your car with?
10:43<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause3: that was extreme, but quite real...
10:44<Gonozal_VIII>sig 500 or something like that
10:46*fjb can't await the next release of the new pbs patch.
10:46<Gonozal_VIII>yes, that sounds promising
10:46<fjb>It is fun to toy with.
10:48<Gonozal_VIII>i think presignals have to be removed for that, that just can't work with default red
10:48<fjb>I didn't have the urge to use presignals with pbs.
10:48<Eddi|zuHause3>why? presignals are mostly ignored, and show the state of the next real signal
10:49<fjb>The common use of signals in TTD is not related to the real working of signals.
10:49<Eddi|zuHause3>presignals should stay mostly for backwards compatibility
10:50<Gonozal_VIII>i would just ditch signalling backwards compatibility with pbs
10:51<fjb>I could live without that bakward compatibility. But I fear many will complin that the signals are not like they used to be.
10:51<Gonozal_VIII>when loading an old game with that patch it should just convert all signals to pbs
10:51<fjb>Mixing both signal systems would lead to chaos, I guess.
10:52<Gonozal_VIII>all presignals.. not the defaults of course^^
10:52<Eddi|zuHause3>i would not allow mixing, but i would allow a setting for using/simulating the old system
10:53<Gonozal_VIII>i guess a switch: default signal colour (red | green) should be enough
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10:54<Gonozal_VIII>could even work with presignals then
10:55<Gonozal_VIII>well... not as intended... but without the locks that are there now
10:55<Eddi|zuHause3>default red with the current signalling... you would never need green signals then
10:56<Gonozal_VIII>no only for the pbs signals
10:56<Eddi|zuHause3>because green means "signal is reserved by a train that has not passed yet"
10:57<Gonozal_VIII>with green they would always be green yes...
10:57<Eddi|zuHause3>i have no idea what you are talking about
10:58<Eddi|zuHause3>"should be enough" <- for what?
10:58<Gonozal_VIII>pbs signals with default green are always green..
10:58<Gonozal_VIII>to avoid those ever red presignals
10:59<Gonozal_VIII>and trains that won't come out of the depot
10:59<Eddi|zuHause3>i told how to solve that
10:59<fjb>"should be enough" always means for everybody. :-)
10:59<Eddi|zuHause3>train ignores presignal
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11:00<Eddi|zuHause3>presignal shows state of next real signal
11:00<Gonozal_VIII>hmm it could try to reserve a path further if there is a presignal and if it can't the presignal turns red and the train stops there
11:01<Eddi|zuHause3>if real signal turns out to show definite red (instead of idle red), train stops at presignal
11:03<fjb>Don't mix the real meaning of the term "presignal" and the the TTD meaning. That leads to confusion in discussions.
11:03<Gonozal_VIII>but the presignal should turn green then... i guess users would complain if the train sometimes passes the red signal and sometimes not... and it turns green after the train passed because the next signal is green and things like that^^
11:04<Gonozal_VIII>there are no real presignals yet
11:05<Gonozal_VIII>hmm how do you make priorities with pbs?
11:05<Eddi|zuHause3>i'm talking about TTD (legacy) presignals
11:06<@orudge>TTD didn't have presignals
11:06<Eddi|zuHause3>i know
11:07<Eddi|zuHause3>but all TTD successors had them, and shared a similarly wrong nomenclature
11:10<Eddi|zuHause3>what is called "presignal" should probably be renamed to something like "entrance signal"
11:11<Eddi|zuHause3>"presignal" should come before the "entrance signal", and should signal "go slower, because next signal is red"
11:11<Sacro>like a repeater?
11:11<Eddi|zuHause3>i don't know what a repeater is
11:13<Gonozal_VIII>i think he means that yellow and double yellow signals he was talking about yesterday
11:13<Sacro>kind of
11:13<Sacro>except a repeater is tied to a main signal
11:14<Gonozal_VIII>that could be a way to get rid of those unrealistic instant stops
11:14<Sacro>yes, possibly
11:14<Sacro>well a train could maybe slow to 66% on a double and 33% ona yellow
11:14<Eddi|zuHause3>" Ist das Hauptsignal für den Triebfahrzeugführer, z. B. in einem Gleisbogen, nicht innerhalb von 300 m zu sehen, stehen zwischen dem Vor- und dem Hauptsignal ein oder mehrere Vorsignalwiederholer (Lichtsignal)"
11:14<Gonozal_VIII>it's kind of boring that no matter how bad you place your signals, your trains will never crash...
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11:16<Eddi|zuHause3>if i understand this correctly, the meanings are like follows:
11:16<Eddi|zuHause3>double yellow: expect red
11:16<Gonozal_VIII>there should be light crashes where both trains have a breakdown but without total destruction
11:16<Eddi|zuHause3>double green: expect green
11:16<Gonozal_VIII>or only the last wagon destroyed..
11:16<Eddi|zuHause3>yellow+green: expect slow green
11:17<Eddi|zuHause3>repeating signals have a white light next to them
11:17<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause3: depending on country
11:18<Eddi|zuHause3>of course ;)
11:18<Sacro>german signalling confuses me
11:18<Eddi|zuHause3>where would we get to if each country would not have at least one different system ;)
11:18<Gonozal_VIII>sprites could always be changed, that's not the problem
11:18<Eddi|zuHause3>germany has like 4 different signalling systems
11:19<hylje>Eddi|zuHause3: counting the signaling-without-the-signals system for fast trains and crowded track?
11:19<Sacro>britain has 2
11:19<Eddi|zuHause3>hylje: i'm not really sure
11:20<Sacro>hylje: moving block
11:22<Sacro>bloody hell
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11:22<Eddi|zuHause3>"Signalsysteme: In Deutschland existieren derzeit bei der großen Bahn fünf verschiedene Signalsysteme"
11:22<Sacro>US has red, yellow, green, white, blue, purple
11:24<Gonozal_VIII>yellow and white... blue and purple... that's easy to misread with sunlight around
11:29<Eddi|zuHause3>"Tip: Wer alle Signalsysteme auf einmal sehen will, fährt nach Hamburg oder (noch besser) Berlin. Dort sieht (sah) man auf der S1 von Wannsee nach Oranienburg Ks-Signale im Bahnhof Wannsee, Sv-Signale auf der Nordsüdbahn, H/V-Licht- und Formsignale auf dem nördlichen Abschnitt und ab der Stadtgrenze bis Oranienburg Hl-Signale. 5 Signalsysteme entlang einer S-Bahn-Linie, die Formsignale sind jedoch 1992 abgebaut worden!"
11:30<hylje>aaaaa, the german!!
11:31<Gonozal_VIII>tipp is written with 2p :-)
11:31<Eddi|zuHause3>it says there was a line in berlin where you could see 5 different signalling systems (not counting the "LZB" system without signals)
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11:33*dih hides
11:34*dih peeks to have a look if he can attack skidd13
11:34<Gonozal_VIII>hi skidd15
11:34<toet>pff cpu multi tasks ingame! >.>
11:34*skidd13 takes his machine gun out and spots possible enemys ;)
11:35<skidd13>Gonozal_VIII: buy a new keyboard
11:35<Eddi|zuHause3> <- the most simple "Main-/Presignal" system, 3 signal states: "stop", "go" and "slow"
11:35<Eddi|zuHause3>where "slow" means 40km/h unless otherwise stated
11:35<dih>slow would be fun
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11:37<flaa>O hai!
11:37<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah, upon reserving the track you could check wether you go along the branching side of a switch, and set signal state to "slow" then
11:38<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause3: i like that idea
11:38<Sacro>we would need more signal graphics though
11:38<dih>that should not be the hardest part
11:38<Gonozal_VIII>they don't slow down to 40km/h on every switch..
11:38<Eddi|zuHause3>you have the pictures in the link, just draw them ;)
11:39<dih>you have enough grf authors
11:39<dih>LA would be happy to do something like that
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11:41<flaa>sorry about the bad image quality. but it's the intention that matters ;3
11:41<Eddi|zuHause3> <- a "combo" signal, which is actually two signals at the same place
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11:42<dih>here comes an ice - lets crash it ^^
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11:46<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause3: i actually kinda understand that now
11:46<Sacro>red + green is wrong
11:46<Eddi|zuHause3>it is yellow+green
11:46<Sacro>that's scary
11:47<Eddi|zuHause3>or orange+green on the presignal
11:47<Gonozal_VIII>that's the special yellow that they use to grow oranges
11:48<Sacro>implementing german signalling in openttd looks quite easy
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11:48<Eddi|zuHause3> <- examples
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11:53<Eddi|zuHause3>it looks easy until you get to the more complicated systems :)
11:54<Eddi|zuHause3>like this one of the east german railway:
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11:54<Eddi|zuHause3>it only consists of "combo" signals, where redundant lights may be left out
11:54<Eddi|zuHause3>also has a java applet to show signal states
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11:55<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r11865 /trunk/src/widgets/dropdown.cpp: -Feature(tte): Support scrolling of drop down lists when in drag mode by moving the pointer above or below the list.
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12:00<Gonozal_VIII>that system is nice
12:01<Eddi|zuHause3> <- another type of "combo" signals, used in berlin and hamburg, basically the left half is the main signal, and the right half the presignal
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12:02<Sacro>shall i start a signal drawing project in the graphics forum?
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12:04<tneo>Can someone tell me about hard-coded features, that will make a city grow?
12:05<tneo>For the openttdcoop servers I'm intending to write a guide on how to make a city grow
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12:07<Eddi|zuHause3> <- the west german system for "combo" signals, each signal will only ever show one light, and have yellow or red plates to show wether it is a presignal, main signal or combo signal
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12:10<Eddi|zuHause3> <- and then there is the "combo-combo" signal system, that tries to combine all 4 previous systems
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12:13<Sacro>hmm, white spot means diverging
12:13<Sacro>flashing green means slow down
12:14<Gonozal_VIII>that would be stopp
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12:22<Gonozal_VIII> <-- repair thingy pulling three wagons? :S
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12:37<rave>what port does openttd .6 on LAN use?
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12:43<+glx>same as 0.5.x
12:43<Zr40>he left
12:46<fjb>Are there plans to implement the push/pull feature for trains?
12:46<Gonozal_VIII>push/pull feature?
12:48<fjb>A trains arrives at a station with the locomotion ahaead pulling it and then leaves it with the locomotion at the end of the train pushing it.
12:49<hylje>no magically reversing trains
12:49<Sacro>decouple and run around!
12:49<fjb>Nobody does that today anymore...
12:50<Gonozal_VIII>they push the trains all the time here
12:50<Gonozal_VIII>push in one direction pull in the other
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12:50<Gonozal_VIII>can't turn around anywhere
12:50<Gonozal_VIII>that's the reason i had more than an hour delay today...
12:51<fjb>Why? Did they try zo turn around?
12:51<Sacro>they do run arounds here
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12:51<Gonozal_VIII>the button/pedal/something that the driver has to push all the time to keep the train going in the back cabin thingy was broken
12:51<hylje>i think most delays here (in long-distance) happen due to pendolinos failing to couple
12:52<Gonozal_VIII>so the safety thing let the air out of the brake and the train stopped in the middle of nowhere and they couldn't get it to move again
12:53<hylje>local traffic suffers from the occassional dead EMU
12:53<Gonozal_VIII>it was a brand new 1116
12:54<Gonozal_VIII>well... the wagons were older
12:55<Gonozal_VIII>they had do get another engine and pull us back into the next station because there's only a single line and we were blocking everything
12:56<Gonozal_VIII>even a road, the train stopped at a crossing^^
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13:17<dih>in some trainsets there are 'break waggons' or 'caboose waggons'
13:17<dih>will they have an affect on the 'loading' time
13:17<dih>if they are the waggons that make the train too long?
13:18<dih>i.e. end waggons
13:18<+glx>if they are outside platform yes
13:19<Gonozal_VIII>the caboose wagons in serbian set are the ones i was trying to replace with transrapid
13:19<@peter1138>yes they do
13:20<@peter1138>but i have thought about that
13:20<@peter1138>if a wagon has no capacity, don't count it
13:20<LA[lord]>same for engine then?
13:20<@peter1138>or something similar
13:20<@peter1138>front engines don't matter nayway, heh
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13:28<LA[lord]>hello skidd
13:29<LA[lord]>I avoided it..
13:30<Gonozal_VIII>skidd is abstract
13:34<dih>would it not make more sense if only waggons to be filled had an influence?
13:35<dih>and only influence loading time if the waggon going to be filled is not in the platform
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13:36<dih>glx, peter1138: last 2 lines are for you ^^
13:36<fjb>Or build platforms long enough. :-)
13:36<dih>fjb: there is a reason why
13:36<Gonozal_VIII>disabe long trains ;-)
13:36<dih>if you have one waggon sticking out in the end of the station you can have
13:37<dih>normal signal - exit signal
13:37<dih>the waggon sticking out of the station will turn the normal signal red and the exit signal too
13:37<Forked>hm. any newgrfs with atomic waste as a product? and maybe even gives you minus to town rating if you use it on a track too close?
13:37<Gonozal_VIII>ah i see, faster green
13:37<dih>once the train starts moving, the normal signal remains red but the exit signal turns green, telling trains waiting at a pre signal to move in
13:38<fjb>Forked: Not that I know about any such grf, but it was discussed to make such a grf.
13:38<@peter1138>now that's a nasty hack :o
13:38<Forked>fjb: ok :) thanks
13:38<dih>peter1138: it's useful though
13:38<dih>and it's not so nasty
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13:39<dih>you are only working with what is available
13:39<dih>and making the best out of that
13:39<dih>i think the english expression is "make do" ^^
13:40<@peter1138>demand pbs :D
13:40<dih>peter1138: how hard would it be to add checks that the loading time is only influenced it the waggon we are currently loading is not in the station?
13:41<dih>and pbs would not solve it
13:41<dih>as a train would still be in the pbs block until it's left the station and passed the next signal
13:42<dih>would it be something you guys would 'approve' of?
13:43*dih fills the silence with thoughts
13:44<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11866 /trunk/src/ (16 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: swap OFB_* and OF_* so it conceptually in sync with other cases of *B_* vs *_* like VETSB_* and VETS_*.
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13:47*dih hopes peter1138 read my last question ^^
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13:51<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11867 /trunk/src/ (genworld.cpp openttd.cpp):
13:51<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix: do not reset changes to persistent storages during world generation.
13:51<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix: store changes to persistent storages after performing all the game logic instead of resetting them.
13:53<@peter1138>that's how easy
13:53<dih>by the way - generation_seed should not be saved to cfg
13:53<dih>that was amazing peter1138
13:54<dih>is it something that could be considerd 'worthy of trunk'
13:54<Rubidium>hmm... should rething multiheads then ;)
13:54<dih>why is that?
13:54<@peter1138>Rubidium, in what way?
13:55<Rubidium>add your engines to the end of the train as you can then have shorter platforms -> more profit!
13:55<@peter1138>ahh, yes
13:55<@peter1138>maybe only count wagons...
13:56<dih>and that what counts as the second engine if waggons have to be placed in between the 2
13:57<Gonozal_VIII>Each platform tile is worth 2 rail vehicles. <-- ?
13:57<dih>what's wrong with that?
13:57<Gonozal_VIII>short wagons?
13:57<@peter1138>it was true, originally :)
13:57<dih>those are additional grf's
13:57<hylje>up-to-date comment is very up-to-date
13:57<@peter1138>the code is still valid
13:57<Rubidium>it's still true ;)
13:58<Rubidium>a 'short' wagon is just 75% of a rail vehicle
13:58<dih>they are _worth_
13:58<Rubidium>or 62.5% or 87.5%
13:58<dih>w rail vehicles
13:58<Rubidium>yet, platforms have to be paid in rail vehicles
13:59<@Belugas>stupid question, but i have to ask: while browsing source code, searching for whatever, do you tend to recognize (or look for) the "shape" of the functions? of enums, or structures... I do. I just hope i'm not the only one, or i'd be ready for the fun farm...
13:59<@peter1138>bah, why are there no interesting complaints on the forums...
13:59<hylje>Belugas: congitive patterns are a bad thing since when?
13:59<@peter1138>Belugas, yes, of course :)
13:59<Wezz6400>hmm adding engines to the back looks stupid though, I'd rather have the train stop a few tiles forward so the engine doesn't stop at the platform, just the cars
14:00*Belugas feels better :)
14:00<Gonozal_VIII>faster than skimming the text and easier to remember...
14:01<hylje>"oh, that. the func that looks like a llama."
14:02<dih>Rubidium: regarding the reload config patch
14:02<@peter1138>that's usually bjarni's code
14:02<dih>if the generation seed used for the map generator is stored in the config
14:02<flaa>don't u liked my lolcats? T_T
14:02-!-Diabolic-Angel [] has joined #openttd
14:03<dih>one can end up with always the same map
14:03<dih>also dedicated servers, when started, will always have the same map, unless they load a scn or sav
14:04-!-skidd13 [] has left #openttd [Ping timeout: Hmm ping sucks :D]
14:06<@Belugas>flaa : needless to say, i have nothing to say regarding your stuff. I might be stupod, but i see nothing nor amusing nor interesting. maybe expand about it?
14:06<Gonozal_VIII>btw that's a thing i noticed, if you open the new game window it always generates a new seed but the same window in the scenarion editor doesn't
14:07<Gonozal_VIII>i spammed that link around to everybody in icq the last time you posted it
14:09<dih>flaa: what are you expecting us to say?
14:09<Gonozal_VIII>that's a reaction i got:
14:09<Gonozal_VIII>[20:06:54] Bartleby: jo und weita? hattma schon
14:09<Gonozal_VIII>[20:07:31] Robert: kazze!
14:09<Gonozal_VIII>[20:07:35] Robert: und openttd!
14:09<Gonozal_VIII>[20:07:39] Robert: openttd kazze!
14:09-!-Diabolic1Angel [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:10*dih thinks of bone
14:10<Gonozal_VIII>bone :S
14:11<dih>i like this one a lot:
14:11-!-Dark_Link^ [] has joined #openttd
14:12<@Belugas>"kazze!" ?
14:12<@Belugas>ho.. makes sens... NOT
14:12<dih>i thought that one was amusing
14:12<dih>perhaps more for germans
14:13<dih>i mean all 3 lines by Robert
14:13<Gonozal_VIII><-- robert... you would never have guessed that^^
14:14<dih>getting back on topic
14:15<Gonozal_VIII>what could be more on topic than a cat playing openttd?
14:15*dih will not say anything against cats, as it might offend Belugas
14:15*dih actually likes cats
14:16<Gonozal_VIII>cats rock
14:16*dih is unfortunately really allergic
14:16<Gonozal_VIII>that's bad... really bad
14:17<@Belugas>i love my cat. The others? baah... i cant love them as i can't touch them...
14:17<dih>i hate my allergies
14:17<Gonozal_VIII>ha! get aids, your immune system will break, your allergies will stop too and you can have cats :D
14:17<dih>but i like animals - so usually i am the one who sufferes ^^
14:18<dih>that was a cheap, Gonozal_VIII
14:18<dih>can you not come up with better lines
14:18<Gonozal_VIII>not always
14:20-!-Zr40 [~zr40@2001:960:786:0:21b:63ff:fe9e:ab24] has quit [Quit: Zr40]
14:20<dih>anyhow - i am curious to hear/read other people's oppinion on the train longer than station thing, and the generation_seed (not) stored in config
14:21<Gonozal_VIII>well, the trick with the signal is nice
14:21<dih>where did peter1138 head to? he disappeared
14:22<@Belugas>shhhhutt.... he is working hard
14:23<dih>in his diff is the following comment: /* Reduce time penalty if the last wagons do not carry cargo */
14:24<dih>would you not want to reduce the time penalty if the last waggons are not going to be loaded at that station?
14:24<dih>i.e. multicargo trains
14:24<@peter1138>cos that would be more complex and i can't be bothered
14:25<dih>i like that answer
14:25<Gonozal_VIII>i usually don't use multi cargo trains
14:25<dih>me neither
14:25<dih>i was just thinking of that case
14:26<LA[lord]>dih, you think too much.. do something useful.. like play OpenTTD..
14:26<dih>or slapping LA
14:26<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm spriteless 0 px engine
14:26<Gonozal_VIII>1 px
14:26*dih slaps LA[lord]
14:27-!-Tlustoch [] has joined #openttd
14:27*LA[lord] is sad
14:27<Gonozal_VIII>could be attached there to trigger the signal and also to get eyecandy wagons without engines on some platforms
14:28-!-|Jeroen| [] has quit [Quit: oO]
14:31<Gonozal_VIII>could an engine read the custom name you give it and use that as hp?
14:32<Gonozal_VIII>maybe even negative...
14:33-!-KritiK [] has joined #openttd
14:33<Gonozal_VIII>if you think one of your trains accelerates too fast to be realistic... buy one of those 1px engines, rename it to -1000, attach it and voila... train has 1000hp less^^
14:34<@Belugas>feels like ttdp's cheat sign :)
14:34<Gonozal_VIII>cheat sign?
14:34<hylje>cheat wagon
14:34<Gonozal_VIII>never played ttdp
14:37<LA[lord]>I played..twice.. maybe thrice :D
14:39-!-peter1138 [~petern@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:39*AntB is currently playing patch more then open
14:40*LA[lord] slaps AntB with a fresh copy of OpenTTD nightly
14:40<@Belugas>it is your choice AntB :)
14:40<@Belugas>it SHOULD no bother anyone, even LA[lord]
14:41<AntB>I've only just downloaded it actually, just to see what it was like
14:41<AntB>and PBS :)
14:41<LA[lord]>Belugas: *should* is dangerous word...
14:43<dih>should is not dangerous the way it was used there
14:43<LA[lord]>that doesn't matter
14:43<tneo>point of view
14:43<dih>pointy view
14:44<LA[lord]>pointy ears
14:44<AntB>rabbit :p
14:45<dih>and AntB just rabbits on
14:45<dih>no pun not intended
14:45<AntB>oi! its not very often I actaully chat in this room :P
14:45<dih>that 'oi' is _very_ british ^^
14:46<Gonozal_VIII>isn't that kind of frenchish?
14:46<AntB>well considering i /am/ brittish dih :D
14:46<dih>i did not meet another person (appart of my (?:grand)?mother) using that
14:47<dih>Gonozal_VIII: go to london and say "oi! is french"
14:47<dih>or even better
14:47<dih>say "the french rock"
14:47<AntB>come to where I am and mention the french ;)
14:47<dih>not entirely sure you'd make a bunch of friends
14:47<dih>he should still be able to report back to this channel AntB
14:47<@Belugas>[14:52] <dih> say "the french rock" <--- no, say "French rocks"
14:48<AntB>a french woman come in the pub and I lost count of the amount of people sayin to chuck her out
14:48<dih>unfriendly snobs
14:48<AntB>you call them snobs and they'll have ya :P
14:48<dih>i know
14:48<dih>i lived in the uk for 2.5 years
14:48<Gonozal_VIII>usually if a woman walks into a pub the guys check her out not chuck..
14:49<dih>totally depends on the woman and the guys in the pub
14:49<hylje>a woman walks into a bar ..
14:49<hylje>.. ouch.
14:49<AntB>well theres a barmaid in my local who has a "double" cleavage
14:49<AntB>lol @ hylje
14:50<Gonozal_VIII>double :S
14:50-!-haclet [] has joined #openttd
14:50<AntB>her jeans don't fit very well
14:50<dih>that is normal in the uk
14:50<AntB>not like hers it aint :D
14:51<dih>one thing i did learn after living 2 years in oxford
14:51<tneo>aint aint a word ;)
14:51<dih>it was _not_ my fault that i _never_ saw an attractive woman
14:51<AntB>not commenting on oxford, too far south for my liking
14:51<flaa>21:43 <@Athan> flaa: 16:39:36 < LuomuXP>
14:52<@Belugas>flaa, warning
14:52<dih>if i had the ability to
14:52<@Belugas>express something else but screenshots
14:52<dih>go Belugas go
14:52<@Belugas>or face the consequences
14:52<AntB>OTTD Touched... its moved on a bit since that screenie :)
14:53<haclet>I have o question - I just updated my openttd and comiled it. All like before (long time I didn't have time to do that) - but when I am running game - it seems be running like in network mode ?
14:53*dih gets some popcorn to watch the 'kick off'
14:53<Gonozal_VIII>i helped with improving :D
14:53<flaa>Belugas: huh? are screenshots prohibited on this channel?
14:53<@Belugas>with a reason, yes
14:53<@Belugas>without one, it is spamming
14:53<@Belugas>reason or ban
14:53<@Belugas>your chopise
14:53<flaa>erm... wait a sec, that wasn't even a screenshot, it was a regular image
14:54<flaa>of some device running openttd
14:54<flaa>or whatever it was running
14:54<dih>kick kick kick
14:54<@Belugas>the last one, we all know aobut it. thanks
14:54<AntB>Flaa: Nintendo DS, not "some device" :P
14:54<flaa>well that would have been my second guess
14:54<@Belugas>the first one you sent twice, still not getting the beauty of it
14:54<dih>Belugas dont you have some steam to let out
14:55<dih>THEN LET IT OUT
14:55*hylje hugs Belugas
14:55<Gonozal_VIII>snow makes people angry
14:55<flaa>that was not the same image i sent twice
14:55*dih snows
14:55<Gonozal_VIII>bad dih
14:55<Gonozal_VIII>not again
14:55<dih>i just need to get a bucket to overflow
14:55<@Belugas>freakingly resembling then...
14:55<flaa>how does a DS and a kitten resemble each other
14:56<tneo>they don't
14:56<Gonozal_VIII>you just have to take more snow out of the bucket than it has inside and you end up with maximum
14:57<@Belugas>[11:42] <flaa> O hai!
14:57<@Belugas>[14:07] <flaa> don't u liked my lolcats? T_T
14:57<@Belugas>i see two
14:58<tneo>same url can't miss ;)
14:58<@Belugas>nor logs :)
14:58<tneo>You're just in this channel 24/7 :P
14:58<@Belugas>my client is :)
14:58<dih>belugas, give yourself a kick
14:58<@Belugas>i'm at work 9-5
14:59<flaa>Belugas: yes i see two also. i think we already came to that conclusion, no?
14:59-!-Belugas was kicked from #openttd by Belugas [muhaha]
14:59-!-Belugas [~belugas@] has joined #openttd
14:59-!-mode/#openttd [+o Belugas] by ChanServ
14:59<AntB>wtf? lol
14:59<Gonozal_VIII>wooden rail?
14:59<dih>now do the same for flaa
15:00<LA[lord]>Belugas, you don't have to do ALL that dih orders...
15:00<LA[lord]>or dou you?
15:01<dih>the thing is, deep inside he wants to
15:01*AntB wonders why dih isn't an op yet then :P
15:01<dih>i am - just not here
15:01<flaa>what i meant to say the image was not the same as the two i sent earlier
15:02<Gonozal_VIII>as the one you sent earlier :P
15:02<flaa>which actually should have been clear from the context of the dialogue
15:02<@Belugas>flaa, if it was, i would not have interveen
15:02<@Belugas>it was not
15:03<@Belugas>so, now you now
15:03<flaa>tell me if these two are the same image: and
15:04*dih slaps flaa
15:04*Rubidium ignores flaa
15:04<LA[lord]> Ah yea. I remember now.. I need to make a grf that has some parameters in it.. So like possible two options for different sprites... It has something to do with action07(sikp sprites) and 0D(assign parameters) but I don't know how..
15:05<Rubidium>/ignore flaa
15:05-!-haclet_ [] has joined #openttd
15:05<LA[lord]>Rubidium: You are mean..
15:05<Rubidium>mean in what way?
15:05-!-haclet [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:05-!-haclet_ is now known as haclet
15:06<LA[lord]>every time I'm here you suggest /ignore arandomornotsorandomname
15:06-!-helb_ [~helb@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:06-!-helb_ [~helb@] has joined #openttd
15:06<Rubidium>well... it's better than a ban
15:06<Gonozal_VIII>la, look at the combined airport grf, that has lots of parameter based sprite skipping and nothing else...
15:06<Rubidium>as I do not have to care about reversing it
15:07<LA[lord]>Gonozal_VIII: I know.. Skidd15 told me that..
15:07<Rubidium>why do so many Skidd15 when it's skidd13?
15:07-!-peter1138 [~petern@] has joined #openttd
15:07-!-mode/#openttd [+o peter1138] by ChanServ
15:08-!-tubul [] has quit [Quit: I cna ytpe 300 wrods pre mniuet!!!]
15:08<LA[lord]>no it's not skidd13 (Gonozal, may I? )
15:09<Gonozal_VIII>you may ;-)
15:10-!-lobster [~michielbi@] has quit [Quit: HELP ME I AM A PENGUIN YET I HAVE NO BEAK ONLY MARSHMELLOWS]
15:11<LA[lord]>welll.. the thing is that I desperatly needed skidd13 and but gonozal could offer me only skidd15 (for a good price) so he disguised him as skidd13 and tried to sell him
15:11<LA[lord]>but I saw it through, took skidd13, but didn't pay
15:13<Gonozal_VIII>yes... that was very evil
15:15-!-HerzogDeXtE1 [] has joined #openttd
15:22<flaa>you guys gotta loosen up a bit
15:22-!-flaa [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
15:22-!-HerzogDeXtEr [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:22<dih>a kick would have been more fun
15:24<SpComb>Logs: (old: )
15:25<Gonozal_VIII>you're not seriously going to sleep now belugas?
15:26-!-peter1138 [~petern@] has quit [Quit: bwaaahahaha, te eeeh eeehee boingk!]
15:27<Gonozal_VIII>[21:24:36] Belugas: gnignigni
15:27<@Belugas>that's the sound of sadistic pleasure seeing flaa gettiing away
15:28<Gonozal_VIII>so that's what sadistic pleasure sounds like...
15:29<@Belugas>you should had a grim in the face,
15:29<@Belugas>and two hands with long nailed fingers doing . that motion.. hem...
15:29<@Belugas>forgot the word...
15:31-!-rave [~user@] has joined #openttd
15:33<LA[lord]>goood niiigght
15:33<pavel1269>gn ;)
15:34-!-LA[lord] [] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.80 [Firefox]]
15:34-!-haclet [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:35<@Belugas>rubing or maybe rubbing
15:35<@Belugas>not sure
15:36<Gonozal_VIII>i don't want to know about your fantasies involving rubbing motions..
15:36<@Belugas>twisted mind...
15:37<@Belugas>like a witch, you know...
15:37<@Belugas>one over the other
15:37-!-Mucht [] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
15:37<@Belugas>in a griddy way
15:38<Gonozal_VIII>i don't know any griddy rubbing witches, sorry...
15:39<hylje>witches, both of you
15:39-!-DJ_Mirage [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:40-!-DJ_Mirage [] has joined #openttd
15:40<Prof_Frink>What do we do with witches?
15:41<hylje>we burn them!
15:41<Gonozal_VIII>yes, burn belugas, burn him! *steps aside*
15:42<Prof_Frink>What else burns?
15:44<Gonozal_VIII>insanity is the new sanity
15:44<@Belugas>i should have shut my big mouth
15:44<Gonozal_VIII>you should adapt
15:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11868 /trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs): -Fix: some files were still mentioning that beta1 is the latest release when that's not the case.
15:45<Gonozal_VIII>why does the code mention that? :S
15:46-!-thgergo [] has joined #openttd
15:46<pavel1269>what about making some topic in ottd->problems like ... "WHERE" orsth similar with instructions to find screenshots and saved games? :o)
15:46<Rubidium>Gonozal_VIII: the readme is not code
15:47<Gonozal_VIII>you mean like an alphabethically sorted list of words and each of them has a link?
15:47<Gonozal_VIII>5 files readme?
15:47<rave>does the share order dropdown option on the vehicle list/group window work?
15:49-!-Nite [] has joined #openttd
15:50<Nite>anyone about bugtracking here?
15:50-!-fjb_ [] has joined #openttd
15:51<Nite>hey i mean the channle is full
15:51<Digitalfox_>A fix Rubidium lol
15:51<Gonozal_VIII>[21:50:11] Nite: anyone about bugtracking here? <-- that's one of those questions you don't ask
15:51<Nite>why the hell?
15:51<Digitalfox_>Nite: Just ask the question..
15:52<@Belugas>you simply state your problem...
15:52<Gonozal_VIII>that's like asking if you can ask something
15:52<Nite>simple problem
15:52<Rubidium>asking to ask something is worse, because you already asked something
15:52<Nite>i was playing with depot orders heavily in 5.3
15:53<Nite>and i guess in 0.6.0 they dont work correct anymore
15:53<Gonozal_VIII>because a train entered a depot twice in a row?
15:53<+glx>use service order
15:54<Rubidium>wow ;) OpenTTD is so much faster when using a release build *and* 1000 MHz more than normally ;)
15:54<Nite>when a train enters the depot and is not able to get out right away (ie: is blocked by another passing or entering train) it dous not switch to the next order
15:54<hylje>Rubidium: thats totally not expected
15:54-!-fjb [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:55<@Belugas>Nite : [15:58] <+glx> use service order
15:55<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm that blocked thing is new but i guess it's the same problem
15:55<Nite>(it has nothing to do with service order or not NOR with any patches enabled or disabled NOR with pathfinding NOR with nonstop handling)
15:55<Digitalfox_>bye pavel1269
15:55-!-pavel1269 [] has quit []
15:55<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11869 /tags/0.6.0-beta3/ (11 files in 3 dirs):
15:55<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Release: 0.6.0-beta3
15:55<CIA-1>OpenTTD: Took way too long, but that happens when real life interferes and the bugcount is rising instead of declining.
15:56<Gonozal_VIII>what are the orders?
15:56<Nite>also with heavy traffic some really wired things happened like skipping the next 2 orders after performing the depot order
15:57<Nite>orders where ... goto station A unload - go to depot (nonstop/service) - goto station A ...
15:58<Digitalfox_>Another beta oh why why why o_O
15:58<Nite>the "..." where many orders to different stations
15:58<Rubidium>Digitalfox_: and you still have not installed it?
15:58<Digitalfox_>Nope i'm one of those crazy nightly testers...
15:58<Nite>i also tried to switch off the timetables - but same things happened
15:59<Digitalfox_>It's always crashing but oh well..
15:59<Nite>i also tried different station/depot designs
15:59<Digitalfox_>Someone must do the dirty job ;)
16:00<Gonozal_VIII>that problems sound new to me...
16:00<Nite>they where new to me also
16:01<@Belugas>maybe you should repoprt them on forums problem sections and see if it rings a bell to anyone
16:01<Digitalfox_>If it wasn't for those rare and crazy nightly testers, how would you have so many bug reports and a way of spending your free time Rubidium ?
16:01<Nite>5.3 depot orders worked ...
16:01<@Belugas>like... adding savegames, diagrams, screenies of different behavioours
16:02<Gonozal_VIII>depot orders always worked for me, even with the nightlies... maybe it has something to do with the number of orders
16:02-!-Bjarni [~Bjarni@] has joined #openttd
16:02-!-mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ
16:03<Digitalfox_>And people say " Donate some money to the dev's for so much work " Well i say Dev's donate money to us nightly testers for all the work we do and make you don't work finding bugs!!
16:03<Gonozal_VIII>i usually don't have many orders for a vehicle, so i wouldn't notice if that causes problems
16:03<Nite>there where 7 stations in a pingpong "1unload-depot-1-2-3-4-5-6-7unload-depot-7-6-5-4-3-2-"
16:03<Digitalfox_>I'm joking.. Before someone thinks it's for real :\
16:04<@Bjarni>Digitalfox_: it can be more fun to betatest than to code and fix bugs
16:04<@Bjarni> <Digitalfox_> I'm joking.. Before someone thinks it's for real :\ <-- too late :P
16:04<Nite>i also like testing more
16:04<Digitalfox_>And my net just catch some fish
16:04<Digitalfox_>oh a bjarni fish
16:04<Digitalfox_>what a strange fish
16:05<Digitalfox_>better sending it to water again, don't want to eat it
16:05<ln->it's Bjarni!
16:05<Nite>if forums wherendt so tedious/boring
16:06<ln->Bjarni: a workaround is: use the PPC binary.
16:07<Nite>ppc bin ?
16:08-!-lekro [] has joined #openttd
16:08<@Bjarni>ln-: what???
16:08<@Bjarni>you are saying that people should use rosetta?
16:08<@Bjarni>I tell people NOT to use rosetta because it creates odd issues
16:08<ln->that way the game at least starts.
16:09<ln->but let me paste this link for the third time:
16:09-!-helb_ [~helb@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:10<Nite>openttd website states "You should direct these questions to the forums or in our IRC channel." but whatr is "theyr" irc channel ???
16:12<Nite>yes they call it "our"
16:12<Digitalfox_>Wasn't there a page that showed the statistics for this channel? I remember seeing it but don't remember who posted the link :\
16:12<Gonozal_VIII>you're talking to "them"^^
16:13<Nite>(their sry)
16:13<@Belugas>"our" channel is this one
16:13<Nite>ok i wasnt sure
16:13<Gonozal_VIII>it's on the page, i just checked
16:14<@Belugas>you did? ho... good boy Gonozal_VIII ;)
16:14<ln->Nite: "their" is spelled with i.
16:15<Nite>i alreadi applogyzed ;-)
16:15<ln->Bjarni: what say thou about that link?
16:16<@Bjarni>I say it looks like something needs updating ;)
16:19<Nite>maybee there should be a "bug" gameserver, where the task is to reproduce bugs ... (non crashing bugs)
16:19<dih>they are all over
16:20<tneo>I got a question :)
16:20<Nite>oki then
16:20<dih>and the bug is called 'desync'
16:20<Gonozal_VIII> <-- you can find lots of bugs there
16:20<tneo>What helps to make a city grow in game play?
16:20<Gonozal_VIII>desyncs still happen?
16:20<Gonozal_VIII>you already asked that today
16:20<@Belugas>and these are the servers in question :
16:21<@Belugas>tneo : passengers/mail/goods
16:22<dih>and search for desync
16:22<@Belugas>no... that's for me
16:22<Nite>i never noticed "many" desyncs at all in ottd
16:23<tneo>Belugas, and are there certain conditions that will speed up the process e.g. placing stations "inside" gray paved area, amount of stops at station, etc. ?
16:23<tneo>Does the chosen road layout matter for instance?
16:23<Gonozal_VIII>i noticed a lot of them some time ago at revision 5000-8000 or something around those numbers
16:23<Eddi|zuHause3>hmm... my autoreplace is failing...
16:23<@Belugas>nope to all the questions
16:24<@Belugas>not that i know, anyway :S
16:24<Gonozal_VIII>they grow much better if you build roads for them
16:24<@Belugas>and dont forget to dance under the moonlit night
16:24<@Belugas>or is it on a volcano?
16:24<Nite>ok it seems to be the "goto destination(depot) twice" bug
16:24<Eddi|zuHause3>..with no clothes on :p
16:25<Eddi|zuHause3>(but don't tell us)
16:25<Nite>but happening constantly
16:25<@Belugas>and a broom in your...
16:25<Gonozal_VIII>that's not a bug nite, that's just a misunderstood feature
16:25<tneo>Gonozal, is building roads the only thing (that you know) that will help?
16:26<Eddi|zuHause3>tneo: you can finance office buildings
16:26<Gonozal_VIII>no.. some bus stops and transport people around
16:26<Gonozal_VIII>that extends the area where big buildings will appear for some time
16:26<Nite>no its not
16:26<Eddi|zuHause3>it also speeds up town growth for that time
16:27<ln->attention! i need name suggestions for a fork of FTE. <>
16:27<Nite>when i order a train to go to depot and it has gone to depot it definately should go on with the next order, shouldnt it?
16:27<Gonozal_VIII>it didn't go to depot because of that order but because it needed service
16:28<Gonozal_VIII>then it continues with next order... no matter what that is
16:28<Nite>you do not understand
16:28<tneo>Gonozal_VIII So funding buildings, frequent bus stops and building roads will help to grow a city. And the more ppl you move around the faster it will grow?
16:28<@Belugas>nite, did you read my PM?
16:28<Nite>no i didnt got a PM
16:29<@Belugas>look in tyou IRC client
16:29<Eddi|zuHause3>tneo: no, the amount of stations you visit matters (up to 5), transported amount is irrelevant
16:29<Gonozal_VIII>i don't know tneo
16:29<Nite>(i use dana dont thinks it has PM)
16:29<Nite>ok found it
16:29<@Belugas>[16:15] <Belugas> I really meant what I said about putting your report to the forums
16:29<@Belugas>[16:16] <Belugas> unless you want to put it on Flyspray, but you should really really document it.
16:29<@Belugas>[16:16] <Belugas> like what was happening,
16:29<@Belugas>[16:16] <Belugas> what is now happeinig
16:29<@Belugas>[16:16] <Belugas> ways to reproduce it
16:29<@Belugas>[16:16] <Belugas> etc etc...
16:29<@Belugas>[16:16] <Belugas> otherwise, just on IRC, yo're pretty much screwed to oblivion
16:29<dih>then get a decent irc client
16:30<@Belugas>dih... shhhuush
16:30<Gonozal_VIII>and the roads don't really speed up the growth, they avoid places without road access inside the city where no houses can appear
16:30<Nite>ok so irc might not be the right place for bugtracking
16:31<Nite>whats the command for PM?
16:31<tneo>Eddi|zuHause3 and those 5 stations need they have a certain frequency?
16:31<Gonozal_VIII>it can be for easy to fix bugs or to find out if a bug is already known
16:32<Eddi|zuHause3>tneo: yes, but i don't know the right number... like each month or each 3 months or so
16:32<Nite>well i just wantet more ppl to know about it
16:32<tneo>Ok thx guys :)
16:32<@Belugas>Nite, i dont know about command for PM on your client.
16:33<Nite>idn honestly i dont like messages like "no thats not a bug yu just didnt understand taht feature"
16:33<Nite>ok i thought there where a standrd irc one ... thx sry
16:33<@Belugas>IRC might be a good place to inquiry if the given bug is known or not. But to actually fix it (if it is one), it's better to leave informations (as i mentioned) so it can be scrutinized later
16:34<@Belugas>'cause we MAY not be in the right position to fix it...
16:34<@Belugas>like right now...
16:34<@Belugas>still at work
16:34<Gonozal_VIII>well sorry... but there are a lot of people that report that their trains enter the depot for servicing and then enter it for the depot order, and that's not a bug
16:34<@Belugas>althoug I talk a lot on IRC for a working man...
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16:35<Nite>yeah ok - for me, i know the difference betwenn service in depots and just goto depot refit and non stop ...
16:36<Nite>but neither one works constantly in 0.6.0
16:36<@Belugas>you know, it may be a bug, but it may be that the previous behaviour has been changed to something else for this or that reason...
16:36<@Belugas>so that is why a decent bug report is required
16:37<Nite>guess you cant call that a behaviour it messes up the whole order sequence
16:37<Gonozal_VIII>with savegame, config, maybe screenshots, instructions to reproduce it, everything that could be useful to understand it
16:38<Nite>because strangely trains dont skip to the next order but also dont go to the depot a second time right away
16:38<Gonozal_VIII>then what else?
16:39<Gonozal_VIII>do they have the possibility to turn around?
16:39<Nite>first they drive out in thee blue, which is often behind some one way signal
16:39<Nite>htey dont turn araound in stations so they could head to the depot again
16:40<Gonozal_VIII>i'm not sure about that but i think they can only turn around at stations when they stop there
16:40<Nite>nad oh yes its hard to bel9eive without havin seen it in action
16:41<@Belugas>report the bug for examination
16:41<Nite>true but they stop if they are not set to non stop anyways but dont turn raound to go to that already visitet but not "switched" depot
16:41<Gonozal_VIII>and there's something about pathfinder doesn't like dead end bouncing
16:41<Nite>all this its why i duiscus it here because its really hard to describe at once ...
16:42<@Belugas>well... if yuo grab your logs, you should have a lot already write ^)^
16:42<Gonozal_VIII>i think i understand it now
16:42<Gonozal_VIII>you need a loop somewhere for the trains to turn around
16:43<Gonozal_VIII>or just activate service at for the depot order :-)
16:43<Nite>could be an option - i found taht when im forcing them to turn around with the icon they alwas visited the depot a second time then swichting it also
16:44<Nite>when i activate service at its teh same problem & tehy only use the order when theyr service intervall is "active"
16:44<Nite>("their" i kno i know )
16:44<Gonozal_VIII>set the service interval to 10 and they will use it always..
16:45<Gonozal_VIII>and they shouldn't go there twice then
16:45-!-fjb_ is now known as fjb
16:45<Nite>if i set it to low they will always try to go there even when in the middle of theyr rout
16:45<Gonozal_VIII>not with a service at order
16:45<Nite>and this is something we also dont wonat
16:46<Nite>you mean if they have a service at order they dont go to depot "by them self"?
16:47<Nite>kewl didnt know that
16:48<Nite>still it would be nice they always skip the order if they visited the right depot ...
16:48<Nite>i will try the service at
16:48<Nite>.. again ...
16:48<dih>a force option would be more interesting
16:48<dih>i.e. goto regardless
16:49*dih seecretly names his station 'regardless'
16:49<Nite>i thought the simple goto would be force enough
16:49<dih>apparently not
16:50<Nite>well they go there but they dont notice/skip
16:50<Gonozal_VIII>a normal depot order does force them to go there
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16:50<Nite>guess its jsut a littel quirk with entering and exiting depots
16:51*dih goes to try nite's setup
16:51<Gonozal_VIII>no it's just them wanting service by themselves and then following the depot order
16:51<Nite>they only switch to next order if they go in and are able to go aou right away
16:53<Nite>the server where u could see the depot restartet aperently
16:54<Nite>ah no still there
16:54<Gonozal_VIII>hmmmm it skips duplicate orders
16:54<Nite>there are no doubel/duplicate orders
16:54<Gonozal_VIII>i have 10times go via waypoint bla and then service at depot
16:55*Belugas goes home . good night all
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16:55<Gonozal_VIII>when it reaches service interval while it's at the 5th pass (or something) at te waypoint it skips the rest to the depot order
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16:56<Nite>even when i skip the orders manually it doues not work
16:58<Nite>all that AI af the trains yust is wired thy yust should follow the orders one by one without asking
16:59<Gonozal_VIII>that's what they do
16:59<Nite>apperently not
16:59<Gonozal_VIII>service interval servicing is not an order
17:00<Nite>i have a look if i can turn intervalls off 100%
17:00<Gonozal_VIII>yes, set it to 0
17:00<Gonozal_VIII>but unfortunately you can do that only through default interval
17:00<Nite>set to very high?
17:00<Nite>i guess
17:01<Gonozal_VIII>that should be made possible in the train details...
17:01<Gonozal_VIII>0.. that means disabled
17:01<Nite>better in the patch settings
17:01<Gonozal_VIII>it is in the patch settings
17:01<Nite>true that would be an option to maybee prevent mayn pf quirks
17:01<Gonozal_VIII>but you can set the service interval from 30-800 in the vehicle details... why not 0-800?
17:02<Nite>dont ask me :D ?
17:02<dih>Nite: the setup you described earlier works alright for me
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17:02<Gonozal_VIII>it was an open question^^
17:03<Nite>i see
17:04<dih>so i have no idea what you did _exactly_
17:04<dih>but what you described works
17:05<Nite>you mean it works for you or the bug works
17:05<dih>there is no bug
17:05<dih>same way as there is not spoon
17:06<Prof_Frink>Name two films that contain the line "There is no spoon".
17:07<murr4y>pulp fiction
17:07<murr4y>citizen kane
17:07*Rubidium ponders whether The Matrix is allowed as answer
17:07<murr4y>oh and saw iv
17:07<dih>Nite: and i just looked at my game server where you have a company
17:07<dih>and it workes there too
17:07<Nite>no it doesent
17:07<dih>so i have no idea what you are going on about
17:08<Nite>plz go there
17:08<dih>watch train 9
17:08<Rubidium>because it's "Imaging there is no spoon" and "There is no spoon" implies that there is the first word of the sentence
17:08<Prof_Frink>Rubidium: Neo mumbles it later later.
17:08<Nite>i do wathc and as u see its still trying to go to a depot is has already passed
17:09<Prof_Frink>But you've not got the other one I was thinking of
17:11<Nite>ill skip train 9 to Igualda forest
17:13<Nite>i also skiped train 12 to taht
17:13<Nite>now look
17:14<fjb>Why do trains go round half the world instead of waiting a short time in front of a red signal? :-(
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17:14<dih>it looks like 2 depots are being confused for eachother
17:14<Gonozal_VIII>you can set that in the cfg
17:14<fjb>Oh, where? What di I have to change?
17:14<Gonozal_VIII>signal wait time
17:15<Gonozal_VIII>wait_oneway_signal = 15
17:15<Gonozal_VIII>wait_twoway_signal = 41
17:16<Nite>so you saw that it doesent work now ??
17:16<fjb>Gonozal_VIII: Thank you. What di the numbers mean?
17:16<Gonozal_VIII>i think ticks
17:16<Gonozal_VIII>or days
17:16<Gonozal_VIII>or something
17:17<dih>Nite: you should hae
17:17<fjb>Is that the time it should wait?
17:17<dih>*have said that in the first place
17:17<Nite>i should what?
17:18<Gonozal_VIII>i had a strange bug looooooong ago where two depots seemed to be connected... a train could enter one of them and when you turned the train around then it teleported to the other depot
17:18<dih>Rubidium: in the game it looks like 2 depots are being confused for eachother
17:18<Gonozal_VIII>that's the default
17:18<Nite>you mean fault
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17:18<Nite>well so if i delet one depot it should work?
17:18<Gonozal_VIII>i'm having different conversations at the same time nite
17:19<Nite>i swear it worked in 5.3
17:19<fjb>Gonozal_VIII: Do I have to set the numbers higher or lower?
17:19<Gonozal_VIII>the name suggests higher
17:19<Nite>i see but that depot connection thing fitet to my situation also
17:19<dih>Nite: kill one of the depots and create a new one
17:20<Gonozal_VIII>ask eddi, he changes that all the time
17:20<dih>and then i hope you are using shared orders ^^
17:20<Nite>i did create new ones -. and new orders - didnt help
17:20<Nite>but itry it with just one now
17:21<Nite>done that i get "lost tains"
17:21<fjb>Eddi|zuHause3: What Do I have to set?
17:21<Gonozal_VIII>lost or invalid order?
17:22<Eddi|zuHause3>i change "first_twoway_eol" or something
17:22<Gonozal_VIII>invalid order is normal, lost isn't
17:23<Eddi|zuHause3>HAH, i found why my autoreplace failed...
17:23<dih>it was disabled?
17:23<Eddi|zuHause3>i made a group for my diesel passenger trains, and assigned a steam train there
17:23<Nite>the lost train seems normal for me too it happens sometimes
17:23<Eddi|zuHause3>then in that group i set a rule to replace the BR 18 with a V 200
17:24<Eddi|zuHause3>but for "all trains" there was already a rule to replace BR 18 with BR 110
17:24<fjb>Eddi|zuHause3: What value do you set for "first_twoway_eol" ?
17:24<Eddi|zuHause3>fjb: false
17:25<Eddi|zuHause3>fjb: it means "if the first signal is two-way and it is red, treat it like an end of line (do not search paths beyond this point)
17:25<Eddi|zuHause3>so... apparently autoreplace barfed at these conflicting replacement rules
17:27<Nite>ok train 3 went to depot but didnt advance to the next order - ie: sent to depot dont works
17:27<Nite>same thing for 7
17:28<Eddi|zuHause3>Nite: make a savegame, describe what to do with that savegame, and post it to
17:28<Nite>again they dont go to depot again but try to go "somewhere else going once around the whole track"
17:28<Nite>i saved but have to go now
17:29<Gonozal_VIII>[23:25:30] Eddi|zuHause3: fjb: it means "if the first signal is two-way and it is red, treat it like an end of line (do not search paths beyond this point) <-- that's a good thing, i use that to route trains into waiting depots
17:29<Nite>thanx for reading my not so good expieriences ...
17:29<Gonozal_VIII>two way combo presignal
17:29<Eddi|zuHause3>it's a bad thing, i don't have waiting depots
17:29-!-Nite [] has quit [Quit: Dana]
17:30<dih>savegames can be found at
17:30<Gonozal_VIII>it's a bad thing that you don't have waiting depots
17:31<dih>watching his trains is sufficient
17:32-!-Bjarni changed the topic of #openttd to: 0.5.3, 0.6.0-beta3 | Website: * (DevBlog: blog, Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, NightlyArchive: archive, WIKI: wiki, SVN mailinglist: maillist, Dev-docs: docs, Patches & Bug-reports: bugs) | #openttd.notice for FS + SVN notices | UTF-8 is mandatory | use English | no off topic YouTube links
17:34<dih>night ladies
17:34*dih is off to bed
17:34<Gonozal_VIII>good idea
17:34<Gonozal_VIII>i'll do that too
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17:36<@Bjarni>why do you two leave for bed at the same time?
17:37<Rubidium>same bed?
17:37<@Bjarni>that's the strangest reaction that I have ever seen to a release
17:38<dih>diff is, i say good night but never manage to leave at the same time
17:38<@Bjarni>that is what you want us to believe
17:39<dih>quick question
17:39<dih>is there an easy way a config option does not by default get saved to the config file?
17:39<dih>though if it's there gets loaded?
17:40<+glx>check how it's done for "blitter"
17:41<dih>k - thanks for the keyword ^^
17:41<dih>now then - good night ^^
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18:34<Wolf01>'night all
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19:28<fjb>The path guessing algorithm is almost unusable with single track lines. :-(
19:29<Gekz>that just sounds insane.
19:30<fjb>And the bad thing is that it doesn't find it's way back to the route once it lost it.
19:30<Gekz>give it a high five.
19:32<fjb>And I can't afford to build doble track everywhere. That is just stupid for that few trains on that lines.
19:35<Rubidium>can't afford?
19:35<Rubidium>just make a debug build and you can afford anything without using the cheat window ;)
19:35<Rubidium>by pressing ALT-1
19:35<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r11870 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp:
19:35<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix: slow down train when approaching tile we can't enter in more cases
19:35<CIA-1>OpenTTD: (tunnel/bridge/depot from wrong direction, competitor's track, wrong railtype)
19:35<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix: do not make crossing red when we can't enter it in any case
19:35<Rubidium>pressing ALT-0 in a debug build is funny too
19:35<Sacro>SmatZ: oooh, tell me more
19:35<SmatZ>Sacro: just changes in TrainCheckIfLineEnds(), nothing extra :)
19:35<fjb>Rubidium: What does ALT-0 do?
19:35<+glx>try it :)
19:35<SmatZ> case '0' | WKC_ALT: // Crash the game
19:35<+glx>SmatZ: you spoiled the fun ;)
19:35<SmatZ>sorry :-x
19:35<fjb>And it would still be insane to build a whole double track line just in cast one lost trains gets onto that line.
19:37<fjb>I tried the pbs patch. You can see where the pathfinder reserves block with that patch. Is that a debug option that can be switchesd on in every build?
19:38<Rubidium>showing the reserved blocks? that's always on by default
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19:39<Rubidium>but then again, there is no block reservation so there's nothing to show anyways
19:39<fjb>The swiches got a bit darker showing the route with that patch.
19:40<fjb>I mean instaed of the block reservation the path that the pathfinder found in the not patched build.
19:42<Rubidium>npf can do under certain circumstances (-d npf > 0, not networking)
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19:44<fjb>But yapf can not?
19:44<Rubidium>don't know about it
19:44<Rubidium>don't think it can though
19:45<Rubidium>and npf shows the path stuff by cutting grass under the rail tiles
19:45<fjb>Ok, I will lok into the source if I find something.
19:45<Rubidium>so with many trains it'll become pretty bare
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19:46<fjb>I would not mind that. I'm having a hopelessly lost train that doesn't find it's way back. It always misses the swich it had to take.
19:47<@Bjarni>imagine that in real life
19:47<@Bjarni>it happens
19:47<fjb>And trains get lost really easy with single tack lines.
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19:47<@Bjarni>it did happen before electric systems made it clear where each train was
19:47<fjb>But they will get the train back onte the route some times in reality...
19:49<@Bjarni>I read a story about a large group of people waiting for a train and it didn't show up and the station manager feared it had derailed because it was so late without any messages. Eventually it turned up at a station and the station manager there put his head out of the bedroom window and said "there aren't suppose to be any trains for the next two hours". Turns out that the train went down the wrong line and due to darkness and fog they didn't notice it
19:50<@Bjarni>meaning none of the crossings where secured and stuff
19:50<@Bjarni>but they could see NOTHING :P
19:50<@Bjarni>luckily nothing happened
19:51<ln->Bjarni: btw, have you heard about this combination called "screen + irssi"?
19:51<fjb>Strange things happen...
19:52<@Bjarni>for the record this incident happened in the steam era before they even got electric signals
19:52<@Bjarni>ln-: do you mean you get one very long line?
19:54<ln->Bjarni: no.
19:54<Eddi|zuHause3>fjb: if trains miss the right switch, your setup is probably wrong
19:54<ln->Bjarni: i mean; with that combination you could be here 24/7
19:55<Eddi|zuHause3>fjb: if all fails, you can put up waypoints to better enforce directions
19:55<@Bjarni>ln-: why would I want to be here that long
19:55<@Bjarni>I sleep once in a while
19:55<fjb>Eddi|zuHause3: The train had to turn right to go left. And it was lost, so none of the waypoints were in it's route.
19:55<@Bjarni>besides I prefer to think that I have a life
19:55<fjb>I got it back on route by removing a pice of track.
19:56<Eddi|zuHause3>fjb: i mean before it got lost
19:56*fjb doen't believe that Bjarni has a life.
19:56<Eddi|zuHause3>in normal operations, trains should never get lost
19:56<ln->Bjarni: you want to be here 24/7 so that people can bug you about Mac things 24/7 even if you're sleeping.
19:56<@Bjarni>fjb: why not?
19:56<fjb>Eddi|zuHause3: It had all needed waypoints in it's list.
19:56<@Bjarni>ln-: that would be a reason why NOT to do so ;)
19:57<Eddi|zuHause3>fjb: i can't judge that, because i do not know your setup
19:57<fjb>Bjarni: I know you good enough to not believe in everything you say. :-)
19:57<@Bjarni>I'm dead
19:57<ln->Bjarni: besides, if you're here 24/7, it's harder to tell when you're having a life and when not. at the moment you can be assumed not to be having a life while online.
19:58<@Bjarni>fjb claims I lack a life... I guess that means I'm dead
19:58<fjb>Eddi|zuHause3: It's a single track triangle.
19:59<Eddi|zuHause3>fjb: still, i don't know it
19:59<Eddi|zuHause3>for single tracks, i suggest switching twoway eol off
20:00<Eddi|zuHause3>patch yapf.rail_firstred_twoway_eol off
20:00<Eddi|zuHause3>that is the only reason i imagine that trains could take wrong switches
20:00<ln->Bjarni: does your university offer a shell + screen + irssi?
20:00<@Bjarni>I think I can get whatever I want there
20:01<@Bjarni>as long as it's legal, that is
20:01<@Bjarni>rumours has it that they kill people with p2p or hosting stuff they shouldn't host
20:02<fjb>Eddi|zuHause3: I will try that. What does that switch do?
20:02<@Bjarni>I guess those two are related
20:02<Eddi|zuHause3>[2008-01-15 23:25] <Eddi|zuHause3> fjb: it means "if the first signal is two-way and it is red, treat it like an end of line (do not search paths beyond this point)
20:02<ln->Bjarni: also, being online 24/7 makes it a lot harder for others to use your nick while you're gone.
20:03<@Bjarni><ln-> Bjarni: does your university offer a shell + screen + irssi? <-- well. Looks like the shell I just opened has access to both screen and irssi
20:04<@Bjarni>so how do I figure out how to use this stuff?
20:04-!-KritiK [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20:04<ln->say "screen -q". then say "irssi"
20:04<ln->then say "/connect" and join here
20:05<fjb>Eddi|zuHause3: Thank you.
20:06<@Bjarni>xmodmap: unable to open display ''
20:06<@Bjarni>that went well :P
20:06<ln->err.. what command resulted in that?
20:06<@Bjarni>screen -q
20:07<ln->fascinating.. but are you inside screen nevertheless?
20:07<ln->are you sure?
20:07<@Bjarni>how do I make sure?
20:08<@Bjarni>ohh... now I have shitloads of screen-4 and bash running
20:08<ln->say e.g. "ls", then press ^A and c.
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20:08<ln->cool. time to execute irssi then.
20:09<@Bjarni>killed all of them
20:09<@Bjarni>starting over
20:09<@Bjarni>I don't need to run screen 5 times
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20:11<Sacro>zomg, Bjarni-test
20:11<@Bjarni>ok I'm in
20:12<Bjarni-test>then what?
20:12<roboboy>why do websites use realmedia
20:12<@Bjarni>to harass visitors
20:12<ln->the important functionality is to know how to detach and attach a screen.
20:12<SmatZ>roboboy: because they don't use Windowsmedia, thanks God :-P
20:12<ln->when you press ^A d, your screen is detached.
20:12<Bjarni-test>I never used screen before :(
20:13<valhallasw>roboboy: because realmedia has the best compression ratio for video?
20:13<ln->after that, the command "screen -dr" will attach it back to you.
20:13<roboboy>I can understand if they dont want to go with microsoft or apple but shurely mp3 would be best for audio
20:13<roboboy>every one can use it
20:14<Bjarni-test>then it says "no other window"
20:14<Bjarni-test>I'm doing this wrong :(
20:14<ln->you pressed ^A twice?
20:14<Bjarni-test>pressing it once did nothing
20:15<Bjarni-test>so I tried again
20:15<+glx>"^A d"
20:15<ln->it isn't supposed to do anything visible
20:15<@Bjarni>now it worked
20:15<@Bjarni>I hope
20:15<ln->Bjarni-test: ^A is a special start-of-command key.
20:16<Bjarni-test>now I'm back
20:16<Bjarni-test>but it looks horrible :(
20:16<Bjarni-test>I lost colours, ability to click links and stuff
20:16<Bjarni-test>it looks just like a shell
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20:17<Bjarni-test>no GUI at all
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20:17<ln->you have no colors at all, everything's black&white?
20:17<@Bjarni>roboman: welcome in the lines of the adults :)
20:17<Bjarni-test>B&W only
20:18<Bjarni-test>it sucks
20:18<ln->then there's something odd about your terminal settings.
20:18<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r11871 /trunk/src/ (10 files in 2 dirs): -Fix [FS#1074]: do not update signals after each tile when building/removing a large block of track/signals/station
20:18<Tefad>TERM=xterm ? TERM=rxvt ?
20:18<Bjarni-test>I have no idea
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20:19<@Bjarni>nice idea
20:19<ln->detach your screen, say "echo $TERM"
20:19<@Bjarni>but it didn't really work
20:19<@Bjarni>I don't want to chat in terminal anyway
20:20<@Bjarni>it lacks the abilities I'm using now with tabs and stuff
20:20<ln->Bjarni: even newbie girls learn to use screen + irssi over here. (this is a chauvinistic comment, i know)
20:20<SpComb>pfft, tabs
20:20<@Bjarni>it's not like I can't figure out how to use it
20:20<@Bjarni>it's more like I don't see the need for it
20:21<Tefad>my wife uses a console based music player
20:21<ln->Bjarni: err... you can have e.g. 50 windows (equivalents of "tabs") in irssi.
20:21<@Bjarni><SpComb> pfft, tabs <-- I need those when people talk to me in more than one window/tab
20:21<ln->Bjarni: and the ability to click links depends on your terminal.
20:22<@Bjarni>maybe setting this up after midnight isn't the best time
20:22<Tefad>text-select then middle click
20:22<Tefad>sometimes ctrl+n in browser first
20:22<Tefad>(or ctrl+t)
20:22<ln->03:11 [oftc] CTCP VERSION reply from Bjarni-test: irssi v0.8.10 - running on SunOS sun4u
20:23<@Bjarni>it's a nice system
20:23<ln->03:23 [oftc] CTCP VERSION reply from ln-: irssi v0.8.10 - running on SunOS sun4u
20:24<SmatZ>I didn't know you are using SunOS
20:24<@Bjarni>I am when I'm not at home
20:24<ln->it's the university's unix server.
20:25<SmatZ>I didn't like its WM - CDE
20:25<ln->i also have a Sun SparcStation on my desk, but i don't use that for irc.
20:25<ln->... unfortunately i don't have a screen for the Sparcstation.
20:25<Tefad>i have a sparc that doesn't boot
20:25<SmatZ>and well, I am too lame to run anything except windows and linux :)
20:25<Tefad>it has VGA output
20:25<Tefad>also a DEC Alpha PWS
20:26<ln->i ordered a vga adapter from a while ago, still waiting for it.
20:26<Tefad>the alpha gets as far as trying to boot an OS, then fails.
20:27<Tefad>weird critters those are.. their firmware emulates x86 to be compatible with VGA BIOS.
20:27<Tefad>(PC VGA adapters)
20:27<CIA-1>OpenTTD: bjarni * r11872 /trunk/src/engine.cpp: -Fix (r9874): EngineHasReplacementForPlayer() didn't look in ALL_GROUP
20:28<ln->Bjarni: let's have a 24-hour experiment with innocent human specimens, m'kay?
20:28<SpComb>Bjarni: indeed, and I have 72 windows ("tabs") in irssi, all switchable to in under a second
20:28<SpComb>it's the ultimate IRC client in terms of efficiency
20:29<Eddi|zuHause3>Bjarni: is that related to one of my still-unsubmitted findings?
20:29<@Bjarni>with all the IRC setup and checking then when are I'm supposed to get coding time?
20:29<@Bjarni>Eddi|zuHause3: I have no idea. I just noticed this issue and coded a fix for it
20:30<ln->Bjarni: mode -c for 24 hours??
20:30<SpComb>Bjarni: using all the time that you save when you don't have to click around with your mouse anymore
20:30<ln->and if some bonehead abuses it, kick + mode +c
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20:31<Eddi|zuHause2>i told about the trains-cancel-service a few days ago, and today i had an issue that replacement failed when i had a rule set in "all vehicles" and a different one in its group
20:31<@Bjarni>basically I made a vehicle in group DEFAULT_GROUP and a replace setting in ALL_GROUP and because those two weren't the same then it failed to check for the replacement. The stuff I was looking at is still broken though but now it's due to the function itself and not the functions it calls
20:32<Eddi|zuHause2>DEFAULT_GROUP is "ungrouped vehicles"?
20:33<@Bjarni>Eddi|zuHause2: well... now it *should* use the settings for the group and if it lacks settings for the engine in question then it checks the all group if the group haven't used replace protection
20:33<@Bjarni><Eddi|zuHause2> DEFAULT_GROUP is "ungrouped vehicles"? <-- yeah... it's the group vehicles starts in when they are build
20:34<Eddi|zuHause2>ah, one thing i noticed: when i sell a vehicle, and build a new one immediately, it copies orders and stuff, but not the vehicle group
20:34<Eddi|zuHause2>similar when ctrl+cloning
20:34<@Bjarni>you should post bug reports about those findings
20:34<Eddi|zuHause2>yeah, i should
20:35<@Bjarni>I'm not going to solve it right now
20:35<@Bjarni>I should be sleeping
20:35<@Bjarni>ln- took way too much of my time with the screen stuff :(
20:35<@Bjarni>that... and I shouldn't be coding at this hour either
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21:07<@Belugas>Sacro : ping
21:09<@Belugas>who is native emglish speaker around?
21:10<ln->try asking anyway
21:12<@Belugas>a town have different zones
21:13<@Belugas>in ottd as well as in reality
21:13<@Belugas>i'm trying to find the best naming scheme
21:13<@Belugas>for those zones
21:13<@Belugas>so far, from the further to the inner, i've got
21:14<@Belugas>but... i do not know if it is ... hem...
21:14<@Belugas>so... suggestions, comments?
21:15<Andel>london does it in numbers
21:15<Andel>but you have centre, the suburbs, then thats it
21:16*Belugas notes centRE instead og centER
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21:17<@Belugas>what downtown really means, by the way?
21:17<Tefad>Belugas: non-commonwealth is usually Center, British is Centre.
21:17<Sacro>Belugas: pong
21:17<@Belugas>hey Sacro :)
21:18<Tefad>downtown means high desnsity usually
21:18<Sacro>hey :)
21:18<Tefad>density too
21:18<Sacro>Tefad: downtown is more an american term
21:18<@Belugas>i wanted to ask you about the upper posts i write, town zones
21:18<@Belugas>Sacro,any british equivalent?
21:19<Tefad>downtown can also mean the oldest part of a city
21:19<@Belugas>by a de facto standard, the british flavor of english is enforced in ottd
21:19<@Belugas>too bad, i liked the downtown name :(
21:20<Tefad>the city in which i live has a "historic downtown" district
21:20<Sacro>Belugas: mainly just centre, suburbs, outskirts
21:20<Eddi|zuHause2>whatever "historic" in america means ;)
21:21<Eddi|zuHause2>my city recently celebrated 1200 years
21:21<Andel>Tefad: downtown means the centre
21:21<Andel>historical areas are not always "down town"
21:21<Andel>Belugas - yes, after suburbs
21:21<Tefad>Andel: i said "usually"
21:21<Sacro>Belugas: the edges of a city
21:21<Andel>!bugger me
21:21*Sacro buggers Andel
21:22<Andel>try it, Sacro
21:22*Sacro buggers Andel
21:22<Tefad>Eddi|zuHause2: my state just established 400 years of settlement
21:22<Andel>try !bugger
21:22*Andel buggers Sacro up the arse.
21:22<@Belugas>periphery could be valid and a synonim of outskirt?
21:22<Andel>Belugas: is that an innuendo?
21:22<Tefad>Belugas: sounds ok
21:23<@Belugas>a WHAT???
21:23<Andel>double entendre?
21:23<@Belugas>oh... ok...
21:23<Andel>i'll get my coat
21:23<@Belugas>i don't know
21:23*Andel wanders off again before causing offence
21:24<@Belugas>the probnlem i have,is that ttd has 5 town zones
21:24<@Belugas>i want to giuve them proper naming
21:24<@Belugas>and...well...not easy
21:24<Andel>try high street (central), town centre, inner suburbs, outer suburbs, outskirts?
21:25<Andel>high street being very tiny
21:25<Andel>outer being fairly more... whats the word - affluent?
21:25<@Belugas>so... centre, inner suburb, outer suburb outskirt, edge (or border)
21:25<@Belugas>looks good?
21:26<Andel>inner suburbs will contain more built up houses
21:26<Andel>maybe flats
21:26<@Belugas>now... edge or border?
21:26<Andel>a few small houses
21:26<Andel>nothing much else
21:27<@Belugas>almost country side
21:27<Sacro>Andel: Central Business District?
21:27<ln->where's "ghetto"?
21:28<Sacro>ln-: we don't have them here
21:28<Sacro>Andel: cottages? what kind of suburbs do you have?
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21:29<Tefad>ghetto hahaha
21:29<Andel>Sacro: south of hull
21:29<Tefad>ghetto is two blocks from downtown ; )
21:29<Sacro>Andel: the river?
21:29<@Belugas>i like edge
21:30<Eddi|zuHause2>ln-: in germany we call such words "historically tainted"
21:30<@Belugas>i live east of Hull!
21:31<Sacro>Belugas: germany?
21:31<Andel>Belugas: oh crap
21:31<@Belugas>no canada :D
21:31<Andel>I was about to like you, too lol
21:31<Sacro>i think you mean west :p
21:31<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause2 is to the east
21:31<Sacro>Andel to the south
21:31<Eddi|zuHause2>the question is how far east :p
21:31<@Belugas>no east
21:31<Sacro>and orudge to the north :(
21:31<Eddi|zuHause2>orudge is in scotland?
21:31<@Belugas>we do have a Hull in canada!
21:34*ln- likes maple syrup
21:34<ln->Eddi|zuHause2: we don't
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21:37*Belugas goes to bed
21:37<@Belugas>enjoy the evening
21:37<@Belugas>and thanks for the help
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21:39<ln->Eddi|zuHause2: btw, >74.2% of people here probably wouldn't associate the word "ghetto" with its original meaning.
21:39<ln->but rather understand it as "area of the poor and criminals"
21:54<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r11873 /trunk/src/ (road_cmd.cpp town.h town_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: less a few magical numbers and a tiny bit more comments on town zones
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---Logclosed Wed Jan 16 00:00:08 2008