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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-01-20

---Logopened Sun Jan 20 00:00:14 2008
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03:08<yorick>hylje, Eddi|zuHause? any progress on the new rivers?
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03:39<yorick>hylje, Eddi|zuHause? any progress on the new rivers?
03:42<hylje>i was sleeping
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03:59<yorick>use pastie, that can be edited
04:01<TinoDidriksen>Or the wiki.
04:03*peter1138 was writing some stuff for it last night
04:03<@peter1138>but had to scarper
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04:03<yorick>there we go:
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04:03<Yorick|AFK>be back soon
04:04<hylje>peter1138: any thoughts left, then?
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04:44<Sacro>morning wolf
04:45<Sacro>morning Wolf01
04:45-!-Yorick|AFK is now known as Yorick
04:46<Yorick>hello Sacro
04:46<Sacro>alas poor Yorick! :D
04:49<Sacro>Yorick: you should read some shakespear
04:49<Yorick>"te be or not to be"?
04:49<Sacro>yes... that is the question
04:50<Yorick>Sacro: , looked at?
04:50<Wolf01>i always thought that the only speaking skull was Murray
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04:51<Yorick>thinking skull
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04:55<wnight>I can't buy more engines, is there a max number of trains? I've got about 10.
04:55<Yorick> , looked at?
04:55<Yorick>wnight: look in patches
04:55<hylje>there is a max, but it isn't usually that low
04:56<@peter1138>ran out of money? heh
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04:57<Wolf01>i just noticed that Tyrian source code was donated to a group of developers which have rewrite it in c and made openTyrian :O
04:57<Wolf01>the best arcade game ever
04:58<Wolf01>i have it original
05:01*Sacro hugs Wolf01 for posting that
05:04*Yorick does too
05:20<wnight>max trains is set to 500... I saw 'never_expire_vehicles' which might explain this... I'm running steam trains far after other types are released.
05:21<wnight>On that subject, when I try to upgrade to newer track I get "can't convert railtype here", even on lone pieces of track. Is there a trick?
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05:58<LittleMikey>Hey channel
05:59<LittleMikey>Whats up ^__^;
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05:59<LittleMikey>Cool :)
06:00<hylje>Canada: America's Hat
06:02<LittleMikey>So what does that make Australia :P
06:04<Gekz>America's bush.
06:04<lolman>Tasmania's giant comedy hat?
06:07<LittleMikey>Oh, and as some general announcement, can everyone who made an entry in the title page competition please check this thread:
06:10<LittleMikey>Well, clearly not you :P
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06:14<Sacro>bean_xp: nice to see another Hull guy
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06:33<LittleMikey>Howdy howdy hi
06:33<Yorick>hi hi howdy
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07:42<Alberth>hello all
07:42<Alberth>should trains loading at a station continue loading when they break down?
07:42<Alberth>I just witnessed this and it looks kind of strange
07:43<reto>Alberth: was it perhaps just arriving or leaving? not yet loading?
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07:43<Alberth>nope, it arrived, loaded to 12%, then broke down, the next batch was however still loaded
07:44<reto>well, i've turned off break downs anyway :) can't help
07:44<Alberth>well, in favor off the event, the train didn't move :)
07:48<@peter1138>no reason why it can't load while stuck in a station
07:53<Yorick>peter1138: last river draft:
07:56<@peter1138>last? very last?
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08:00<Forked>I wonder what I borked with my "fix" of the daylength patch.. I hope I never find out
08:01<Yorick>ask hylje
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08:02<hylje>it's the latest, yes
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08:47<Yorick|AFK>not very busy...
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08:55<wnight>How do I switch rail types?
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08:55<Chrill>click the rail button and they should simply appear below?
08:55<Chrill>click and keep pressed, wnight
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09:23<Chrill>.se eh?
09:25<Chrill>the site hurt my vision, hylje :P
09:25<hylje>tell that to yorick, he wanted me to use that
09:25<hylje>because it apparently lets me edit the paste
09:25<Chrill>Yorick|AFK <-- AFK
09:26<Chrill>Anyway BRB
09:26<hylje>O RLY?
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09:27<Gonozal_VIII>will be fun to watch lots of water sources pouring towards the coast, merging to streams, flooding valleys and so on :-)
09:27<Sacro>hylje: wiki?
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09:30<hylje>i rather have just plaintext
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09:38<Yorick>hmm... wher's the other paste site
09:39<hylje>i used dpaste in the past
09:40<Yorick>that's the one
09:42<Yorick>that lets you edit things
09:45<Yorick>hylje, Gonozal_VIII, Eddi|zuHause and Prof_Frinkand: changed draft,
09:46<Sacro>Yorick: why not put it in the wiki?
09:46<Yorick>[15:30] <hylje> i rather have just plaintext
09:46<Gonozal_VIII>what changed now?
09:46<Eddi|zuHause>wiki is not that far from plain text
09:46<Sacro>Gonozal_VIII: yes, that's the problem
09:46<Eddi|zuHause>plus, you can view changes
09:46<Sacro>wiki would give you revisions
09:46<Yorick>yes, I think it would be a good idea too
09:46<Sacro>ask me nicely and i'll even wikify it nicely
09:47*Sacro does so
09:47*Yorick asks nicely
09:47<Yorick>NOW WIKIFY IT!
09:48<Yorick>the pastebin allows you to view followups
09:49<Yorick>with .diff :)
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09:50<Gonozal_VIII>a diff for text^^
09:50<Yorick>yes :)
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09:56<Yorick>call a source a spring :)
09:56<Gonozal_VIII>you know that you can edit it too?^^
09:57<Eddi|zuHause> - If there are less than X/2 flow units of water in a wide river, it shrinks in width, starting from the source lake. <- hm, i think you should view a water level of -4 as "dry", in case you have seasonally varying springs (snow melt etc.), you have an indication how far the river grows in those cases, if you then want to build infrastructure near the river, you can do appropriate counter-measures. e.g.: just build next to the river
09:57<Eddi|zuHause>(may flood if water level gets above 0), strengthen the riverbank [=build canal] (protect up to water level 4) or raise terrain
10:00<Eddi|zuHause>water level -4 == dry river bed, former river
10:00<Yorick>anyone editing it now?
10:00<Eddi|zuHause>water level -3 == small stream
10:01<Eddi|zuHause>water level -2..0 == bigger streams
10:01<Yorick>I'm saving it now
10:01<Eddi|zuHause>water level > 0 == big river, potentially lake
10:02<Yorick>so refresh
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10:02<Eddi|zuHause>water level +4 == overfull lake/blocked river, next "water level +1" will result in raising terrain and water level -3
10:03<Gonozal_VIII>that's 9 levels
10:03<Gonozal_VIII>bad with bits
10:03<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, could remove one or so ;)
10:03<Eddi|zuHause>you should just avoid going from +4 to -4
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10:04<Yorick>why the terraforming, wouldn't that that look strange?
10:04<Eddi|zuHause>like, go from +3 to -3 instead, remove level +4 alltogether, and skip level -4
10:04<Yorick>can't we just have higher water
10:04<Yorick>as with deepwateer
10:05<Eddi|zuHause>Yorick: much bigger problem
10:05<Gonozal_VIII>and how would that help with the levels?
10:06<Yorick>water level >3 == increase water height
10:06<Eddi|zuHause>but you need to store that height somewhere
10:07<Yorick>how much bits are free?
10:08<Yorick>btw, what if the lake terraforming reaches max height
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10:08<Gonozal_VIII>can't be blocked up there
10:09<Yorick>hmm... that 's a point
10:09<Yorick>what if someone blocks a spring
10:10<Gonozal_VIII>then it should raise too
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10:10<Yorick>what if the spring is on max height
10:10<Gonozal_VIII>can't be blocked
10:10<Yorick>if its on max-height-1
10:10<Yorick>can't it be blocked with a canal?
10:11<Gonozal_VIII>not to the point where it wants to raise
10:11<Yorick>can it raise if its blocked with a canal?
10:11<Alberth>alternative solution maybe, a maximal level for the spring? (ie its internal forces are finite)
10:12<Yorick>good plan
10:12<Yorick>but still, what if the raising is blocked
10:12<Yorick>by a surrounding
10:13<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm unmovable stuff
10:14<Yorick>a lake has the same problem
10:14<Gonozal_VIII>what happens to that? can you flood away lighthouses and such?
10:14<Eddi|zuHause>canals flood right before the tile would raise
10:14<Yorick>it needs to raise 4 dots to raise a tile
10:15<Eddi|zuHause>yes, and canals flood right before reaching that level
10:15<Yorick>what happens to the tiles surrounding the river tile if its raised
10:16<Eddi|zuHause>so the order is -4 [dry] .. 0 [stay in river bed, standard float direction] -> 1 [flood open plain] -> 2 [ flood canals] -> 3 [raise tile, flood upwards slopes]
10:17<Eddi|zuHause>Yorick: they will be raised at subsequent flood calculations
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10:18<Yorick>and anything with draining?
10:18<Eddi|zuHause>suppose you have 4 tiles lower than the surrounding, tile 1 gets flooded from 0 to 1, it spreads to a neighbouring tile, resets to level 0, then that neighbouring tile floods up to level 0
10:18<Yorick>each tile will lose X amount of water
10:18<Yorick>every X ticks
10:18<Eddi|zuHause>if both tiles are full, first tile will flood to 1 again
10:18<Eddi|zuHause>fill other tile
10:18<Eddi|zuHause>continue with the fourth tile, now all 4 tiles have level 0
10:19<Eddi|zuHause>next water level will put the first tile to 1
10:19<Gonozal_VIII>nothing to flood, noting happens, next tile level 1
10:19<Eddi|zuHause>but it can't flood anymore, so it passes the next water level to the other tiles, until all have level 1
10:19<Eddi|zuHause>same with level 2 and 3
10:19<Yorick>but if the river makes a lake that is big enough, it can stay there without flooding because of the draining
10:19<Eddi|zuHause>now first tile gets to level 4
10:20<Eddi|zuHause>means it is set to level -3
10:20<Eddi|zuHause>and raised
10:20<Eddi|zuHause>now all subsequent water levels get passed on to the neighbouring tiles, since they are in main float direction (downwards)
10:20<Eddi|zuHause>they will also reach level 4, and get raised
10:21<Eddi|zuHause>now all tiles are raised to the surrounding plain territory, river searches a new float direction and goes on
10:21<Gonozal_VIII>then up to level 1, there's floodable area again, it floods on
10:22<Gonozal_VIII>hmm random direction then?
10:22<Gonozal_VIII>ah.. direction of first tile to reach level 1
10:23<Yorick>Lakes that become large enough without a way out become sinks for incoming water. <-- that means they have to drain water
10:23<Gonozal_VIII>i think that part should wait until the rest works
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10:24<Yorick>we need a list with ideas sorted by order
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10:26<Yorick>of implementation
10:27<Yorick>springs need to act like some kind of industry with economy adaptions
10:27<Yorick>in scenario editor, you can set amount of water it generates
10:27<Yorick>ingame, it will change like if it was an industrie
10:28<Gonozal_VIII>you can't really service it..
10:28<Yorick>so changes will be random
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10:28<Yorick>as a player, you can install a meter on top of the spring to see how much water it generates =)
10:29<Yorick>ok, bad idea ;)
10:29<Eddi|zuHause>springs might be locations of interest for tourists
10:29<Yorick>if newindustries grf's are present
10:30<Eddi|zuHause>(looooooong way down the list of implementations :))
10:30<Yorick>the grf may place industries that only occur near a spring
10:30<Eddi|zuHause>only near a river would sound more realistic
10:30<Gonozal_VIII>right, the grf can do that by itself
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10:31<Gonozal_VIII>no need to implement anything for that except the tile type
10:31<Yorick>the grf may increase watergeneration-amount if the industrry is serviced well
10:31<Yorick>like giving salt
10:32<Eddi|zuHause>that is totally useless...
10:32<Gonozal_VIII>i don't think springs care about how many tourists are watching them^^
10:32<Yorick>"but it's fun"
10:32<Yorick>they do care about other things
10:32<Eddi|zuHause>you can't create water from nothing
10:32<Yorick>maybe in tropical, you can transport water to the industrie
10:32<Yorick>that pumps it down the spring
10:33<Eddi|zuHause>i won't discuss this idiocy any further
10:33<Vikthor>that's crazy :p
10:33<Gonozal_VIII>sure... you put water in a train, transport it through the desert to a spring and poor it in all the time^^
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10:34<Alberth>make swimming pools for the rich :)
10:34<Vikthor>Only think I can think of would be some bottling industry near spring
10:34<Eddi|zuHause>anyway: tropical -> green areas appear near rivers, water supplies are more likely to appear near rivers, you can then transport water from the water supplies to the desert areas
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10:34<Yorick>that would be a goof idea
10:35<Yorick>Alberth: that would decrease water-generation-amount
10:36*Yorick switches back to normal mode
10:36<Vikthor>Yeah, some possibility to dry lakes like Aral sea by using too much water, but that's really too down on priorities list
10:38<Yorick>k, back to the normal idea
10:39<Yorick>anyone has some thoughts about it?
10:40<Gonozal_VIII>so... it floods empty plains at level 1 and canals on level 2... other used land like buildings, rails and so?
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10:41<Yorick>but it won't flood plains?
10:41<Yorick>and industries?
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10:42*Yorick barries Gonozal_VIII
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10:44*Yorick quickly excavates him again
10:44<Yorick>[16:42] * Yorick barries Gonozal_VIII
10:45<Gonozal_VIII>you barried me? :O
10:45<Gonozal_VIII>oh noes, i got barried!
10:45<Gonozal_VIII>wtf is that?
10:47<Alberth>can't you go around industries?
10:47<Eddi|zuHause>not always
10:47<Gonozal_VIII>it does that if there is room
10:48<Gonozal_VIII>but if not, everything gets flooded
10:48<Alberth>a industry surrounded by water seems like a good candidate for closing to me
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10:49<Alberth>so what's the problem exactly, that water expands over the entire map, or that you have to flood something unmovable?
10:50<Yorick>[16:44] * Yorick quickly excavates him again <-- must be digg's him out
10:51<Yorick>river's won't expand over the whole map
10:52<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm what happens to bridges with horizontal ramps if the valley they are bridging over gets flooded and raised
10:52<Alberth>ok, so you are thinking about flooding a tile with something on it
10:53<Gonozal_VIII>do they just change to bridges with sloped ramps?
10:53<Eddi|zuHause>Gonozal_VIII: rather destroyed
10:55<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm tunnels... just destroyed when water touches them or does it flow through them?
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10:56<Alberth>Taking a big leap now: Wouldn't it be better to have a water level on top of the ground, eg as in RCT?
10:57<Yorick[1]>said that
10:57<Alberth>sorry, missed that
10:57<Gonozal_VIII>no idea how water in rct works
10:57<Yorick[1]>can someone kick the other Yorick, I disconnected
10:57<Gonozal_VIII>kicking doesn't help to speed up the ping timeout
10:58<Gonozal_VIII>except kicking from the server i guess...
10:59-!-Zothar [] has joined #openttd
10:59<Gonozal_VIII>if your nick is registered you can use regain... /nickserv help regain for details ;-)
10:59<Eddi|zuHause>Gonozal_VIII: water doesn't go through tunnels currently either...
11:00<Gonozal_VIII>i know, i tested that with deepwater
11:00<Gonozal_VIII>tunnel on level -1 just gets destroyed...
11:00<Alberth>water in rct is a transparent sprite at the water level when waterlevel is above ground level, so you can see the bottom below the water
11:00<Gonozal_VIII>no transparency
11:01<Alberth>(and optional non-transparent :) )
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11:02<Gonozal_VIII>deepwater in chrisin causes a lot of problems...
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11:06<Gonozal_VIII>i wonder if one could raise the water level pixel by pixel even over multiple height levels through sprite offset...
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11:07<Alberth>a wall of water...
11:07<Gonozal_VIII>of course same height on neighbouring tiles^^
11:08<Yorick>said that yesterday
11:08<Yorick>hylje still listening?
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11:15<Yorick>silent in here
11:16<Gonozal_VIII>all your fault
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11:18-!-mode/#openttd [+o peter1138] by ChanServ
11:19<Yorick>now you have to give a link in response!
11:19<Yorick>Sacro made it for us
11:19<Sacro>did he?
11:20<Yorick>he wikified it
11:20<Yorick>[15:46] <Sacro> ask me nicely and i'll even wikify it nicely
11:20<@peter1138> ?
11:21<Sacro>peter1138: why did i right click and open that ><
11:21<@peter1138>because you were hoping it was back?
11:21<Sacro>CX7800 Ink Cartridges <-- ooh nice
11:22<Prof_Frink>Mmm, goats
11:24<hylje>some things i stumbled upon
11:25<Yorick>go on
11:25<hylje>1. rivers and lakes are entities. rivers are unlike anything, lakes have some parallels to cities
11:26<hylje>rivers can start and end at lakes and river junctions
11:26<Yorick>put it on the wiki
11:26<hylje>not yet
11:26<hylje>river tiles know the related river and flow direction
11:27<hylje>lake tiles know the related lake. the lake knows its water level, the incoming water flow and the outgoing water flow (unless it's a sink)
11:27<Eddi|zuHause>you mean store the river ID like a town ID or something
11:27<hylje>this makes sense because rivers have the same water volume in all points
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11:28<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, that should be improvable upon
11:28<hylje>and it should allow rivers to decide to become wider when volume increases, become more narrow when volume decreases
11:28<Yorick>like town growth
11:29<hylje>a lake grows in size when its water level reaches a certain threshold
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11:31<Ammler>heya Yorick
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11:35<Yorick>have you seen our "Lively rivers"
11:37<hylje>nothing to be seen yet ;)
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11:39<Yorick>The amount of flow may influence ship speed. <--added by me
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11:44<Eddi|zuHause>the amount of flow does not really matter
11:44<Eddi|zuHause>flow only indirectly has something to do with speed
11:44<Eddi|zuHause>flow = speed*area
11:44<Yorick>same thing
11:45<Yorick>there's being talked about "Flow units"
11:46<Eddi|zuHause>yes. but there is no direct correlation between flow and speed
11:46<Yorick>The amount of flow units may influence ship speed.
11:46<Eddi|zuHause>no. you completely missed the point
11:47<Gonozal_VIII>well.. indirectly through a formula with river width and depth... but that goes much too far for now
11:48<Yorick>The flow may influence ship speed.
11:48<Yorick>I think I missed it
11:49<hylje>no concept of depth yet, maybe with rivers3
11:49<Gonozal_VIII>oh right... flowing tiles all have the same depth
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11:54<Yorick>tiles with water level 0 are 10 meters deep
11:54<Yorick>I think
11:55<Gonozal_VIII>random number?
11:55<Yorick>flowing tiles
11:55<Yorick>10 meters seems a nice number
11:55<Gonozal_VIII>shouldn't fix it to any real units...
11:55<Yorick>k, 1 tile
11:55<Yorick>but that would be comparable to 50 meters
11:55<Eddi|zuHause>10m? that is almost an astronomic number
11:56<@peter1138>10 metres is a very high for a river, heh
11:56<hylje>ottd is not to scale
11:56<hylje>but lets indeed say something less
11:56<Eddi|zuHause>small streams have depth of like 10-50cm
11:56<Eddi|zuHause>bigger rivers can have something around 5m
11:57<Yorick>and canals?
11:57<Eddi|zuHause>if a river reaches 10m, they usually flood all cities around them...
11:58<Eddi|zuHause>canals are just as deep as the biggest ships need them to be
11:58*Yorick lives in a houseboat
11:58<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think they are often much deeper than 2m
11:58<Yorick>depth there is 7m
12:00<hylje>keep in mind the concept of flow units is very arbitrary
12:00<hylje>we dont need to think about measurements
12:01<Yorick>we do need to think about flow influencing speed
12:02<Eddi|zuHause>no we don't
12:02<Eddi|zuHause>that can be decided upon much later
12:03<Gonozal_VIII>backlit keyboard :S
12:03*SpComb has no need for a backlit keyboard, for he has a ThinkLight!
12:03<Gonozal_VIII>why oh why?
12:03<Prof_Frink>Yay ThinkLight!
12:03*Yorick gotta eat
12:04-!-Yorick is now known as Yorick|AFK
12:04<Gonozal_VIII>the screen is light enough
12:06<SpComb>no, it isn't
12:06<Gonozal_VIII>it is!
12:06<SpComb>it's hard to use a keyboard in the dark with just the light of the screen
12:07<Prof_Frink>not if you set it to 35% or so brightness
12:07<SpComb>a thinklight/backlit keyboard is really useful
12:07<Gonozal_VIII>i do that all the tieme
12:07<hylje>you don't/shouldn't look at the keyboard anyway
12:07<Prof_Frink>Of course, if you have a das keyboard it's a moot point
12:08<Gonozal_VIII>gamma 0,75, no other light source in the room except some leds and i can see the keyboard perfectly well
12:14<Eddi|zuHause>i never use the computer in a dark room
12:14<Gonozal_VIII>maybe you should
12:14<Eddi|zuHause>if the screen is light, the background (wall) must be light, too
12:15<Gonozal_VIII>i can't even see where the screen ends and the wall begins
12:15<Eddi|zuHause>it is just not comfortable to watch the screen on a dark background
12:15<SpComb>hylje: unless you need to hit the { key or something
12:16<Eddi|zuHause>i know where the { key is
12:16<Eddi|zuHause>{[]} AltGr+{7,8,9,0}
12:17<SpComb>indeed, but it might be a bit difficult to hit that key when typing in a password in the dark on a laptop keyboard that's at a weird angle
12:17<Gonozal_VIII>hehe, you password includes {?
12:17<Eddi|zuHause>and the really odd keys like ¬⅝¤£ are not on the keyboard anyway
12:17<Prof_Frink>How is £ odd?
12:18<Prof_Frink>It's s-3 for fsm's sake!
12:18<Eddi|zuHause>it's on AltGr+Shift+3
12:18<Eddi|zuHause>shift+3 is §
12:18<Gonozal_VIII>i have € and $ keys
12:19<Prof_Frink>You crazy forners
12:19<Eddi|zuHause>altgr+3 is ³
12:19<ln->shift+3 is #
12:19<Gonozal_VIII># is #
12:19<Eddi|zuHause># is next to enter
12:19<Prof_Frink>s-# is ~
12:19<Eddi|zuHause>' is shift+#
12:19<ln->' is next to enter
12:19<Prof_Frink>' is '
12:19<Gonozal_VIII>shift # is '
12:20<Prof_Frink>s-' is @
12:20<Gonozal_VIII>@ is altgr q
12:20<Eddi|zuHause>@ is AltGr+Q
12:20<ln->@ is altgr+2
12:20<Eddi|zuHause>² is altgr+2
12:20<Gonozal_VIII>³ is altgr 3 :-)
12:21<Eddi|zuHause>¹ is altgr+1
12:21<Eddi|zuHause>i knew that was coming :p
12:21<Gonozal_VIII>me wantey!
12:21<Eddi|zuHause>get a real OS ;)
12:21<ln->actually, altgr+e=€ is the only altgr combination with a letter. (on the normal dos/windows layout anyway, linux has a lot more)
12:22<Gonozal_VIII>altgr m is µ
12:22*SpComb has a "
12:22<Eddi|zuHause>µ, @ and € are the ones printed on the keyboard
12:22*SpComb has a umlaut key that doesn't actually work in ubuntu
12:23<Eddi|zuHause>SpComb: you can choose a keyboard layout "with dead keys"
12:23<SpComb>it actually does work, if you press it twice
12:23<SpComb>but ¨<space> gives you "
12:24<ln->the traditional fin/swe keyboard layout doesn't have any useful characters such as µ°šž.
12:25<Gonozal_VIII>yay, same encoding as i have
12:25<SpComb>typed out on a fin/swe keyboard
12:25<Gonozal_VIII>hylje has same ancoding as me!
12:25<ln->SpComb: you're using linux, and those characters are not printed on the keyboard, so it doesn't count.
12:25<SpComb>AltGr-m, AltGr-Shift-0, AltGr-s, AltGr-z
12:25<Eddi|zuHause>š is AltGr+Shift+ä, s
12:26<Eddi|zuHause>ê is AltGr+ä, e
12:27<Eddi|zuHause>ű is AltGr+ö, u
12:27<LA[lord]>oeh,, how easy üõöäšž@ł€¶ŧ←↓→øþ½^ĸjħŋđðšæž»¢“”nµ<>|éúóáèùòà
12:27<Eddi|zuHause>ë is AltGr+ü, e
12:28<ln->is š or ž part of german alphabet?
12:28<SpComb>·la la la·
12:28<Eddi|zuHause>i can't find the dead key version of ~
12:28<Eddi|zuHause>ln-: no
12:29<LA[lord]>Eddi|zuHause: shift+btn over tab
12:29<SpComb>utf8 is fun, even though it's slightly broken for me
12:29<Gonozal_VIII>german alphabet has 30 letters, a-z, ä, ö, ü and ß
12:29<SpComb>all the weird chars show up fine in my input row, and show up fine for everyone else, but my own chars in the main text area are broken
12:29<Eddi|zuHause>in the traditional german layout, ^, ` and ' [french accents] are dead keys
12:29<ln->they are basically part of finnish alphabet, but very often not mentioned, and very often not used. (sh used instead)
12:29<Eddi|zuHause>LA[lord]: no, that is °
12:30<Eddi|zuHause>also not dead
12:30<LA[lord]>a new smiley :P
12:30<LA[lord]>for boring/sleepy
12:30<LA[lord]>Iäm so ˇ~ˇ
12:30<Eddi|zuHause><LA[lord]> ǔťˇrěďǧȟ <- that better not be a real expression :p
12:31<LA[lord]>that's an Estonian word :P noooot
12:31<SpComb>ä works fine for me, but capital-Ä is broken
12:31<LA[lord]>öäüõÖÄÜÕ these are std letters :P
12:32<Eddi|zuHause>¯ is AltGr+Shift++
12:32<Eddi|zuHause>~ is AltGr++, but it is not dead
12:32<Gonozal_VIII>what does dead mean?
12:33<LA[lord]>that's a spanish letter
12:33<LA[lord]>like señor
12:33<Eddi|zuHause>Dead Key == key produces no output, but affects result of next key
12:33<LA[lord]>spelled senjor
12:33<Gonozal_VIII>^ does that
12:33<Eddi|zuHause>like "+e produces ë
12:34<LA[lord]>altgr+ü -> e produces it
12:35<Gonozal_VIII>you're all offtopic, go kick yourselfes :P
12:37<ln->last night i was going to ask a question, but got stuck arguing about the validity of the premises...
12:38<ln->so, let's try again: do we agree that: "people can easily eat hot food that would burn their hands"?
12:39<@orudge>ln-: with a knife and fork, or similar, sure?
12:40<LA[lord]> __ __ .___/ \ / \___________ __| _/\ \/\/ / _ \_ __ \/ __ | \ ( <_> ) | \/ /_/ | \__/\ / \____/|__| \____ | \/ \/
12:40-!-floffe [] has joined #openttd
12:40*orudge kicks people for spam
12:40<Gonozal_VIII>the spit cools it and if you swallow it fast, there's more liquid in your stomach awaiting it... water has a very high capacity for heat
12:40-!-Yorick|AFK is now known as Yorick
12:41<ln->orudge: yeah. i.e. the idea that the mouth tolerates higher temperatures than fingers or hands.
12:41<@orudge>I tend to find that is the case
12:41<Gonozal_VIII>make your hands wet and you can touch hot stuff
12:41<@orudge>but one can still burn one's mouth fairly easily
12:41<Eddi|zuHause>temperature resistance is mainly about blood flow
12:41<Eddi|zuHause>there is much more blood flow in the mouth than in the hands
12:41<Eddi|zuHause>so dangerous temperatures can be balanced out faster
12:41<Gonozal_VIII>that too... another liquid
12:42<ln->orudge: yes, certainly it is possible to burn one's mouth.
12:42<Yorick>hmm... nice ontopic :)
12:42<@orudge>mmm, pizza
12:43<ln->think about e.g. meatballs on your dish that you took out of the microwave oven. they are damn hot to move with fingers, but feel only comfortably warm in the mouth.
12:43<Yorick>lets go ontopic
12:43-!-Vikthor [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:43<Eddi|zuHause>what topic?
12:43*orudge is hungry
12:43<Yorick>0.5.3, 0.6.0-beta3 | Website: * (DevBlog: blog, Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, NightlyArchive: archive, WIKI: wiki, SVN mailinglist: maillist, Dev-docs: docs, Patches & Bug-reports: bugs) | #openttd.notice for FS + SVN notices | UTF-8 is mandatory | use English | no off topic YouTube links
12:43-!-lekro [] has joined #openttd
12:43<Yorick>that one
12:43<@orudge>doesn't say | no food discussion
12:44<CIA-5>OpenTTD: miham * r11933 /trunk/src/lang/ (11 files): (log message trimmed)
12:44<CIA-5>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2008-01-20 18:42:56
12:44<CIA-5>OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 2 fixed by fukumori (2)
12:44<CIA-5>OpenTTD: catalan - 6 fixed by arnaullv (6)
12:44<CIA-5>OpenTTD: croatian - 4 changed by blozo (4)
12:44<CIA-5>OpenTTD: czech - 6 fixed by Hadez (6)
12:44<CIA-5>OpenTTD: dutch - 2 fixed by habell (2)
12:44*Yorick knows orudge is going to say he's going to get food
12:44*orudge is
12:44<@orudge>going to get food, not say that I am
12:44-!-Vikthor [] has joined #openttd
12:44<@orudge>which has now been messed up
12:44<@orudge>but oh well
12:44<Yorick>oh, where's oh?
12:44<ln->so, my ACTUAL question: is the heat tolerance of mouth the result of adaptation during one's lifetime, or are also animals capable of eating hot food?
12:45<Gonozal_VIII>it's not about tolerance it's about the fact that the heat gets absorbed by spit and also transported away by the blood :P
12:46<Eddi|zuHause>like i said, for any (rather close to human) lifeform, that whole fact about heat resistance is about transporing heat away by blood (or other liquids, but blood is the most acively circulated one, so it fits best)
12:49<ln->Gonozal_VIII: as you wish. but can animals eat hot food?
12:49<Yorick>some can
12:49<Eddi|zuHause>but you will probably find sulphur breathing procaryote lifeforms that live in 90°C hot geysirs, or fish that swim in -4°C "hot" water, that is probably not comparable
12:49<Yorick>some can't
12:50<Yorick>Eddi: bacteria...
12:50<Gonozal_VIII>i guess they can but where would they get hot food from?
12:50<Yorick>he's talking about animals
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12:53<Gonozal_VIII>the river implementation doesn't show random slope sprites
12:53<Yorick>Animal: A multicellular organism of the kingdom Animalia, differing from plants in certain typical characteristics such as capacity for locomotion, nonphotosynthetic metabolism, pronounced response to stimuli, restricted growth, and fixed bodily structure.
12:54<ln->does someone know what's the typical speed of a Metronome train like this:
12:54<Gonozal_VIII>not all animals can move
12:54<Yorick>"certain typical characteristics"
12:54<Gonozal_VIII>i guess the line speed... 120, 160, something like that
12:55<Yorick>50 km/h?
12:55<Eddi|zuHause>double decker local coaches are typically allowed for 140km/h, 160km/h if they have special brakes and LZB
12:55<Yorick>some more
12:56<Eddi|zuHause>i have no idea what engine that is
12:56<Yorick>type says 146-17
12:56<@peter1138>probably an ME 146 ;)
12:57<Eddi|zuHause>it's a private rail company, that could mean anything
12:57<Gonozal_VIII># ME 146-17 (146 517) – Langenhagen
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12:58<Yorick>he found it a bit earlier :(
12:59<Gonozal_VIII>"eisenbahngesellschaft" in the english wiki
12:59-!-Greysc[a]le is now known as Greyscale
12:59<Gonozal_VIII>ME 146-17 "Langenhagen" - Bo'Bo' Bombardier 2005/34042 146.2 5600 kW Eigentum LNVG
13:01<Gonozal_VIII>Höchstgeschwindigkeit 160 km/h :-)
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13:09<Wolf01>are rivers supposed to flood?
13:09<Gonozal_VIII>not yet
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13:09<hylje>flooding is the state of change for rivers and lakes
13:09<Wolf01>but they will be?
13:09<Gonozal_VIII>but they're supposed to have random sprites at the slopes
13:09<hylje>it doesn't work exactly as the sea flooding
13:10<Gonozal_VIII>that action 2 (or 3?) in the grf doesn't work... or only gets executed once per map
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13:12<Yorick>as of the river-flooding
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13:16<Yorick>did you read it?
13:16<Wolf01>yes, about 1 hour ago
13:16<Gonozal_VIII>wat you say?
13:17<Yorick>[19:09] <Wolf01> are rivers supposed to flood? <-- why did you ask this question then?
13:17<Wolf01>but 1 hour ago i didn't know we had rivers, so i assumed that was only a wish feature
13:19<@peter1138>Gonozal_VIII, no, there is just no random data yet
13:19<Yorick>make random data
13:19-!-Zavior [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
13:20<Yorick>2398798374928734263491876 isn't that hard <<
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13:20<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138! NewRandomData!
13:20<Prof_Frink>/exec -o cat /dev/urandom
13:21<Yorick>-/notice peter1138 random
13:21<Yorick>hmm... he's broken
13:21<Yorick>we need to install a new random plugin
13:22<Eddi|zuHause>humans aren't capable of sufficient randomness
13:22<Yorick>- /msg peter1138 rcon 923857 "install \"random.dll\""
13:22<Gonozal_VIII>you can always measure very exactly and discard the leading digits...
13:23<hylje>you did't just give out peter1138's rcon pw?
13:23<Wolf01>do you plan to add river creation to the random map creation?
13:23<@peter1138>you are cruising for an ignore
13:23<@peter1138>Wolf01, come up with an algorithm :D
13:23<@peter1138>Wolf01, or if rivers will flow, then it just needs a few starting points...
13:23<Wolf01>just let do it at the AI
13:24<Wolf01>AI is specialised to make rivers... with roads
13:24<Eddi|zuHause>just sprinkle the springs around the map, and let the river search its own path
13:24<Wolf01>and flood the entire map :P
13:24<Yorick>if(within("river", 1)) place
13:24<Wolf01>some lakes would be nice
13:24<Eddi|zuHause>no, you can limit the output of springs ;)
13:24<Digitalfox>Just a small and not important thing on servers page..
13:25<hylje>the river AI needs not be anything more than dead simple
13:25<Yorick>name is too long
13:25<hylje>lakes are created in holes in the landscape the river ends up in
13:25<Wolf01>i think is sufficient to place some starting points for rivers
13:25<Wolf01>and then let them to flow
13:25<Yorick>did you read the new wiki page, peter1138
13:26<Eddi|zuHause>that is what i said
13:26<Wolf01>so i agree with eddi
13:27<Yorick>well peter1138, more pressure to introduce this soon
13:27<@peter1138>pressure = ignored
13:27<Wolf01>i can tell it :P
13:28<Prof_Frink>Yorick: You're Doing It Wrong.
13:28<Eddi|zuHause> <- we totally need those in OpenTTD
13:28<Prof_Frink>peter1138! NewStuff!
13:28<Yorick>- /msg peter1138 rcon 923857 "unignore \"pressure\""
13:28*Prof_Frink hands Yorick a / /msg
13:28<Eddi|zuHause>it's a B'B narrow gauge mallet engine
13:29-!-peter1138 [~petern@] has left #openttd []
13:29<Gonozal_VIII>small shiny steam train
13:29<Yorick>9] /msg Unknown command
13:29<Prof_Frink>DCC SEND peter1138 hugs
13:29<Yorick>- /msg Belugas rcon Ilovetrains "code \"new rivers\""
13:30<Gonozal_VIII>yorick, stop bugging the devs or they'll never implement it :P
13:30<Yorick>he must be offline :(
13:30<Prof_Frink>You have to do it subtly.
13:31<Prof_Frink>Whisper it in their ears while they sleep.
13:31<CIA-5>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r11934 /trunk/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: add persistent random data for river and canal tiles.
13:31<Yorick>hmm... at least he works
13:31<Gonozal_VIII>and fast too
13:31<Prof_Frink>DCC SEND peter1138 morehugs
13:31<Yorick>lets apply some pressure
13:31<Prof_Frink>Yorick: No, just hugs
13:32<dih>[19:29] <Prof_Frink> DCC SEND peter1138 hugs <--- LOL
13:32<Yorick>- /whisper peter1138 code it please
13:32*Yorick hugs peter1138
13:32<dih>what you going on about ladies?
13:32<Gonozal_VIII>flowing and flooding rivers
13:33<Yorick>ladies <-- yes, thanks
13:33<Eddi|zuHause>Yorick is kinda trying to find out peter's highlighting threshold
13:33<Yorick>well he left
13:33<Yorick>he's still on #tycoon ;D
13:34<hylje>this is why we cant have nice thing
13:34<Eddi|zuHause>it's Yorick's fault, yeah.
13:34<dih>i am working on nice things :-P
13:34<Eddi|zuHause>burn him!
13:35<Gonozal_VIII>let's burn yorick
13:35*Yorick burns
13:35*Yorick is done burning
13:35<Prof_Frink>Goodness gracious
13:35<Prof_Frink>Great Yoricks of fire
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13:35<Yorick>dih: what nice things?
13:36<dih>nice things :-P
13:36<dih>you'll see at some point :-)
13:36<Gonozal_VIII>yay random sprites now
13:36<Yorick>not enough information
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13:38<Digitalfox>What's the command for IRC stats?
13:38<@DorpsGek>Yorick: I have 5 registered users with 5 registered hostmasks; 1 owner and 0 admins.
13:39<Digitalfox>Well not that like but for open
13:39*SpComb wonders if he has stats somewhere
13:39<SpComb>Logs: (old: )
13:39<Digitalfox>thanks SpComb :)
13:40<@orudge>hm, 40th in the stats
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13:41*SpComb overtakes Born_Acorn by posting 86 lines of crap
13:42<Prof_Frink>SpComb: Shirley you could just edit the stats
13:42<Gonozal_VIII>16th ;D
13:42<SpComb>Prof_Frink: I got bored of that a while ago, they get overwritten twice a day
13:42<hylje>i'm the most longed-for user. yay.
13:42<Prof_Frink>SpComb: Edit the logs then
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13:44<Gonozal_VIII>"Bjarni is a very aggressive person"
13:44<hylje>that's fairly obvious
13:44<Eddi|zuHause>we know that :p
13:44<Gonozal_VIII>Poor Sacro1, nobody likes him/her. <-- hehehe
13:44<Eddi|zuHause>we know that, too :p
13:45<Gonozal_VIII>Bjarni's faithful follower, Eddi|zuHause3
13:46<SpComb>the nicknames are slightly off
13:46<Gonozal_VIII>i referenced to the nick seal :S
13:46<hylje>that's me
13:46<hylje>i think i have a common word associated to my nick
13:47<hylje>theres no way i'm that popular
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13:49<Prof_Frink>hylje: You're not popular, it's everyone swearing at you.
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16:16<Gonozal_VIII>hehehe nice fix that forked did there with the daylength patch^^
16:16<Gonozal_VIII>changed assertion x >= 0 && x <= 65535 to x >= 0 && x <= 965535
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16:18<@peter1138>Gonozal_VIII, sounds a bit like disabling desyncs...
16:19<Forked>like I said.. I don't know any C++ (or any other language for that matter) ..
16:19<Forked>I probably broke something else :)
16:19<Forked>but! Map sucessfully saved to nice.sav
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16:21<Rubidium>the map will be b0rked when you load it though (and it'll desync whenever someone joins)
16:24<Forked>loaded (on dedicated server) and connected with client.. looks fine
16:25<@peter1138>why not just compile without asserts... same result
16:26<Rubidium>then you haven't reached the limit yet
16:27<Eddi|zuHause>i guess i am glad that i use a no-save version of the daylength patch
16:28<Gonozal_VIII>no save version?
16:28<Eddi|zuHause>but what exactly is that value that overflows?
16:28<Gonozal_VIII>x :-)
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16:33<Forked>whatever x is.. (making dinner, hardly here) .. I have no clue what asserts are.. so I was hoping I could for the most part leave them alone.
16:33<Forked>I did figure it was the worst way possible to "fix" it though.. I'll cry when this game crashes
16:34<Eddi|zuHause>Forked: asserts do nothing, they are used by programmers to tell "when this value is out of this range, something undefined may happen"
16:35<Gonozal_VIII>it saves the value as 16 bit thingy, so there will be problems if it's bigger than 2^16-1
16:50<blathijs>Forked: Eddi|zuHause: Actually, assert(foo) basically means "Check if foo is true, and exit with an error otherwise"
16:51<Gonozal_VIII>i think eddi knows what assert does^^
16:51<blathijs>Yeah, I was amending his explaination a bit
16:51<blathijs>but, I should really be sleeping
16:51<blathijs>good night~
16:51<Gonozal_VIII>early evening...
16:53<Gonozal_VIII>"Finally got a backtrace out of it - the crash seems to occur while saving _date_desc."
16:54<Rubidium>so it's definitely going to cause desyncs, which then are seemingly unreproduceable
16:57<dih>@seen bjarni
16:57<@DorpsGek>dih: bjarni was last seen in #openttd 20 hours, 52 minutes, and 7 seconds ago: <Bjarni> dih: you did it
16:58*Rubidium agrees with Bjarni
16:58<Gonozal_VIII>20h O_o
16:58<Gonozal_VIII>almost 21...
16:59<Gonozal_VIII>go find bjarni!
17:02*Rubidium wonders how long it's going to take before people know the cause of Forked's assertion
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17:03<Gonozal_VIII>since it's been there for weeks i guess long
17:04<Gonozal_VIII>dih isn't here pikita, never was and never will be
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17:05<@peter1138>Rubidium, and that the proper fix is pretty simple, assuming the value of x is right...?
17:06<Rubidium>peter1138: the fix is dead-simple, at least for me ;)
17:06-!-Gekz [] has joined #openttd
17:06<Gonozal_VIII>fix it :D
17:06<+glx>not our bug
17:06<Gonozal_VIII>trunkify it and then fix it :D
17:07<Rubidium>in that case I'd end up fixing every patch, which I do not intend to do
17:08<Gonozal_VIII>daylength is important :-)
17:08<+glx>not for me
17:08<Rubidium>getting a new stable is *much* more important IMO
17:08<Gonozal_VIII>ah stable..
17:09<Gonozal_VIII>makes sense i guess
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17:10<@peter1138>192 FastEthernet interfaces
17:10<@peter1138>8 Gigabit Ethernet interfaces
17:11<@peter1138>hmm, i need more :D
17:11<Gonozal_VIII>no idea what that means^^
17:12<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm 300 lines diff
17:13<Gonozal_VIII>doesn't look too much... i don't know shit about c++ bit i'll look at it :-)
17:16<Rubidium>Gonozal_VIII: just means that the biggest switch/router that he can find does not have enough ports to satisfy his (company's?) needs
17:17<Gonozal_VIII>just connect multiple of them?
17:18-!-Pikita [~qwertypop@] has quit []
17:18<@peter1138>actually that particular one has 32 ports in use, heh
17:20<dih>this flipping kid highlighted me on every channel he could find me
17:20<Gonozal_VIII>hehe and why?
17:20<Gonozal_VIII>something about your servers i guess?
17:20<Eddi|zuHause>Gonozal_VIII: connecting routers is not as easy as you might think... suppose you have 192 computers on one, and 192 computers on the other, each connected with 100MBit, then suppose each of these wants to communicate to a computer at the other switch, you need a 19.2 GBit connection between the switches
17:21<dih>not directly
17:22<Gonozal_VIII>of course you have to connect them in a way that the ones from the first router don't have to communicate a lot with the ones on the other :-)
17:23<@peter1138><peter1138> 8 Gigabit Ethernet interfaces
17:23<@peter1138>hence ;p
17:25-!-fjb [] has joined #openttd
17:29<fjb>Not much happening here.
17:29<Gonozal_VIII>at least not since you joined
17:29*Forked is hiding
17:30<Gonozal_VIII>that tortoise thingy download takes ages...
17:30<Gonozal_VIII>3-4 kb/s
17:30<fjb>Atleast I got some ideas how to make my single track lines double track:
17:31<fjb>Downloding tortoise?
17:31-!-lolman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:32<fjb>Once 3-4 kb/s was high speed...
17:32-!-lolman [] has joined #openttd
17:32<Gonozal_VIII>downloading since 20 minutes and still 30 more to go..
17:33<Forked>I wish I had time so I could learn to code
17:33<Eddi|zuHause>after the first few, i rarely build single track lines
17:33<Rubidium>well... you have time, otherwise you wouldn't have stumbled on that issue you tried to fix
17:33<fjb>You only learn to code by dong it.
17:34<Gonozal_VIII>that's right
17:34<Forked>still need time to do it though
17:34<fjb>Eddi|zuHause: Single track lines were good enough with few trains. But now I got a few more trains. And double track lines are more expensive.
17:35<fjb>And it is fun to build a simple network first and then upgrading it as nedded.
17:35<Gonozal_VIII>single track is almost never enough
17:35<Eddi|zuHause>single track can't be efficiently handled by the limited signalling
17:36<fjb>A single track is good enough for only few trains.
17:37<Gonozal_VIII>i sometimes start my games with single track and some sidings for the trains to pass by each other... and i add more of them and make them longer until they are connected and it's a double track :-)
17:37<Eddi|zuHause>as soon as 4 trains use a single track line, it will block
17:37<Gonozal_VIII>4? why 4?
17:38<dih>an even number
17:38<Eddi|zuHause>2 trains on the siding, and 2 approaching from each direction
17:38<fjb>That depends on the number of points where the line has a second track, like at stations with two platforms.
17:38<Eddi|zuHause>no, it is independent from the number, because if they can meet at the same siding, they will do that
17:39<Eddi|zuHause>and the presignalling system doesn't work bi-directional
17:39<Gonozal_VIII>it slows down everything but it doesn't lock
17:40<fjb>Yapf is really stupid sometimes, but it handles a single track with stations with more than platforn inbetween very well.
17:40<Gonozal_VIII>it would if it would only recoginze reachable exits... but then lots of people would complain that their priority lines and things like that don't work anymore
17:41<fjb>I fear thatmany people will not use the new PBS because that is not bug compatible to the old signalling system.
17:42<Gonozal_VIII>imho it doesn't have to be compatible, either use the old or the new
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17:42<fjb>I second you.
17:42<Noldo>bug compatible is very nice consept :)
17:43<fjb>But many people will complain that they can not abuse the old bugs.
17:43<Gonozal_VIII>they can... but then only that without the new signals
17:44<Noldo>I've been trying to figure out what kind of construct could replace the current priority construct in the new pbs system
17:44<Gonozal_VIII>priority with pbs is kind of difficult i guess
17:45<Gonozal_VIII>maybe declare some trains as express and they reserve a longer path?
17:45<fjb>It could be build into PBS. Faster trains get a higher priority.
17:45<Gonozal_VIII>or that
17:45<Noldo>it's not about the speed
17:45<Noldo>the mainline must flow nicely
17:47<Gonozal_VIII>place those on the mainline^^
17:48<Gonozal_VIII>it could work with something like that...
17:48<Noldo>what would that mean codewise?
17:48<Gonozal_VIII>when a train reaches that type of signal, it reserves a path through the next switch
17:49<fjb>I thought about programmable signs instead of programmable way points or signals. They could be implemented for road vehicles and trains.
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18:07<@Bjarni>this is fucked up
18:07<@Bjarni>wrong people talk to me
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18:09<@Bjarni>Gonozal_VIII: you freak
18:09<@Bjarni>you are too late
18:09<Gonozal_VIII>you were gone for so many hours and now i missed your join :-(
18:09<@Bjarni>you screwed up dih
18:10<Gonozal_VIII>dih was always screwed up
18:11<Gonozal_VIII>poor little dih
18:11<Gonozal_VIII>why are you all so cruel to him?
18:11<Gonozal_VIII>shame on you!
18:11<dih>why is Bjarni so resentful...?
18:12<dih>was he droped as a kid?
18:12<Gonozal_VIII>01:03:21 -!- Gonozal_VIII [] has quit [Quit: Trillian (]
18:12<Gonozal_VIII>01:05:27 -!- Bjarni [] has joined #openttd
18:12<@Bjarni>not that I recall
18:12<dih>_that_ does not mean anything
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18:14<Gonozal_VIII>soooo where have you been?
18:15<@Bjarni>trying to have a private life
18:15<@Bjarni>where users will not bug me all the time
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18:17<Eddi|zuHause>hm... kde 4 seems faster than kde 3.5
18:18<Gonozal_VIII>can i load kde on windows instead of explorer?^^
18:19<Eddi|zuHause>kde 4 was always advertised to have (or get) a windows port
18:19<Eddi|zuHause>i have not investigated upon that any further
18:19<Eddi|zuHause>but there is definitely a "kde on windows" community
18:20<Eddi|zuHause>the panel (task bar) configuration is ... lacking ...
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18:27<@Bjarni>Eddi|zuHause: official benchmarks claims kde 4 to be noteworthy faster than 3.5
18:27<@Bjarni>I forgot how much though
18:27<Gonozal_VIII>there is a windows installer...
18:27-!-thgergo [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
18:27<Eddi|zuHause>yes, my inofficial benchmarks support that claim ;)
18:28<@Bjarni>it's like it didn't really matter to me since I don't use any of them
18:28<@Bjarni>Gonozal_VIII: windows installer?
18:28<@Bjarni>for kde?
18:28<@Bjarni>Gonozal_VIII: are you drunk?
18:29<Eddi|zuHause>it's not like kde 3.5 was awfully slow, but if you are acustomed to the speed, the difference is notable
18:29<Eddi|zuHause>it's like if you bought a new computer, and everything is suddenly fast ;)
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18:33<@Bjarni>ohh... news can be interesting at times. One guy was out sailing in a boat when it sank and he called his dad telling that he had problems. His dad made the military send out a helicopter to find him (standard procedure). The helicopter found him holding tight to a pole in the water just a few meters from land
18:33<@Bjarni>he didn't notice that he was so close to land due to darkness o_O
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18:34<Gonozal_VIII>why military?
18:35<pv2b>what else are they going to do with those helicopters?
18:35<@Bjarni>because in such a situation you need somebody with helicopters within reach and that's ready to take off quickly
18:35<@Bjarni>the military are the only ones who can solve this task
18:35<Gonozal_VIII>well.. we have lots of helicopters here
18:36<Gonozal_VIII>for transports and rescue
18:36<@Bjarni>same here
18:36<@Bjarni>except we gave the task to the military
18:36<Gonozal_VIII>i guess our military just sucks too much for that^^
18:37<Chrill>Military and suck? Take a look at Sweden
18:37<@Bjarni>there has been talk about using actual ambulance helicopters but nothing happened so far
18:38<@Bjarni>what's wrong with Sweden?
18:38<@Bjarni>apart from being Swedish, that is :P
18:38<Chrill>there is no military here?
18:38<Chrill>I mean, we haven't been in a war for over 200 years
18:38<@Bjarni>no military?
18:38<Chrill>There is barely any
18:39<Chrill>We'd be easily invaded by any country
18:39<@Bjarni>then how could be buy a submarine from you guys?
18:39<Eddi|zuHause><Bjarni> what's wrong with Sweden? <- i would never have expected that sentence from you...
18:39<Chrill>You buy crap from us
18:39<Chrill>cus we cant afford to actually have them here :P
18:39<@Bjarni>Eddi|zuHause: it was partly a rhetorical question ;)
18:39<Chrill>Our military consists of selling planes and boats, and a few tanks, really
18:40<pv2b>Chrill: not selling planes very well
18:40<Chrill>I mean, BIG news when a Swedish troop in Afghanistan got into a fight
18:40<Chrill>no injuries even
18:40<Chrill>but it was sooo big still
18:40<@Bjarni>we lost 7 men or something like that
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18:40<Gonozal_VIII>stupid disconnecting...
18:40<pv2b>to be fair, sweden is one of the few countries in the world with our own aircraft design
18:40<@Bjarni>maybe 5... I can't remember
18:41<Chrill>Aye that is true, pv2b
18:41<Chrill> we use Viggen nowadays..? xD
18:41<@Bjarni>two of them were killed by British rockets though
18:41<pv2b>Chrill: i think there may be a few, probably mostly for training :-)
18:41<pv2b>wikipedia should know
18:41<Chrill>which one is the main use tho? Gripen?
18:42<@Bjarni>and the soldiers were so happy when it turned out that it was friendly fire... They really feared that Taliban had got their hands on heavy rockets like that
18:42<Chrill>anyway, VIQ pv2b. Moderaterna or Sossarna? :P
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18:42<ln->Bjarni: the swedish army is some sort of a joke.
18:43<@Bjarni>fits the country
18:43*Bjarni hides
18:43<Chrill>Does not :o
18:43<pv2b>Chrill: nope, last viggen was decommissioned in mid-2007
18:43<pv2b>Chrill: piratpartiet
18:43<Chrill>We've got.. Basshunter
18:43<Chrill>oh damnit
18:43<Chrill>We've got THE HIVES
18:43<@Bjarni>am I supposed to know all of that?
18:43<Chrill>THE HIVES
18:44<Chrill>Well, you should know Hives
18:44<Chrill>and as a Dane, you should know the others
18:44<@Bjarni>is it a music group?
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18:44<Gonozal_VIII>that other guy is downloading again...
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18:45<pv2b>Chrill: we also have piratpartiet.
18:46<@Bjarni>I remember when some Swede named Kent or something showed up and made a concert... we didn't know who it was and it was damn loud to be near it... We couldn't talk normally indoor :(
18:46<@Bjarni>piratpartiet is world famous
18:46<@Bjarni>I'm not sure how they would rule the country as I only heard what they are NOT going to do
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18:47<Chrill>Bjarni, all they would do is to get rid of the feckin cameras in public spaces and let people live their own lives
18:47<Chrill>Probably way more right-wing than left
18:47<@Bjarni>they are not going to get my vote
18:48<pv2b>Chrill: how do you figure?
18:48<Chrill>how do I figure what?
18:48<pv2b>that the pp is right?
18:48<ln->why can't i find any stereotypical swedish army photos with google images?
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18:48-!-asddfsgf is now known as Gonozal_VIII
18:48<Chrill>pv2b, an assumption I've made xD
18:48<@Bjarni>because there aren't any army in Sweden?
18:48<Gonozal_VIII>wtf according to wiki it's really what it sounds like
18:48<Eddi|zuHause>french military victories?
18:49<@Bjarni>Gonozal_VIII: what sounds like what?
18:49-!-Guest3818 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:49<Chrill>pv2b, they themself claim not to have a position on the scale
18:49<Chrill>but still
18:49<Chrill>I saw Rickard Falkvinge @ Plattan some weeks ago :O
18:49<pv2b>Chrill: left/right distinctions are irrelevant when it comes to the pp -- copyright reform, personal freedoms and human rights don't really fit.
18:49<Eddi|zuHause>well, they are the political wing of the pirate bay, what do you expect ;)
18:50<@Bjarni>the red army
18:50<@Bjarni>ok, maybe not
18:50<Gonozal_VIII>i accidently pulled a cable out of my router...
18:50<pv2b>Bjarni: anyway, i think we have plenty of politicians with good or bad ideas about how to run the day-to-day issues. there's not really any difference between (s) and (m) other then rhetoric really
18:51<ln->did you know swedish soldiers can have long hair and use hair nets instead of getting a hair cut?
18:51<Eddi|zuHause>Gonozal_VIII: for like the 5th time this evening? :p
18:51<Chrill>that's gay
18:51*Chrill slaps Swedish Military
18:51<pv2b>eh, what's wrong with using hair nets for long hair if you want to?
18:51<pv2b>sounds like common sense to me
18:52<Chrill>Military in Sweden should be abolished
18:52<@Bjarni>sort of
18:52<Chrill>I mean, put that money in like.. I dunno, taking care of older peeps and that jazz
18:52<Gonozal_VIII>why would anybody want long hair?
18:52<Chrill>It's cooler
18:52<@Bjarni>it's Sweden
18:52<Gonozal_VIII>that's a lot of work...
18:52<pv2b>Gonozal_VIII: because it makes them more attractive to the opposite sex?
18:52<Chrill>True, so true
18:52<ln->pv2b: because you are not supposed to have long hair in the army.
18:52<Chrill>True, so true
18:52<Eddi|zuHause>pv2b: you mean men? ;)
18:53<pv2b>Eddi|zuHause: no, women.
18:53<ln->unless the goal is to kill the enemy with laugh.
18:53<Chrill>True, so true
18:53<pv2b>i don't really have a preference one way or the other,but some do.
18:53<@Bjarni><pv2b> Gonozal_VIII: because it makes them more attractive to the opposite sex? <-- and then why have it in the army when there is a lack of "the opposite sex"?
18:53<pv2b>Bjarni: because you're not in active combat all the time?
18:53<Chrill>You're never in active combat, not in Sweden >_>
18:54<pv2b>Bjarni: and growing hair takes a long time, and a hair net solves the same problems?
18:54<@Bjarni>Swedish soldiers are slackers then
18:54<ln->pv2b: if people area allowed to have long hair if they want to, then why not allow them to wear the kind of clothes they want to...
18:54<pv2b>ln-: growing new clothes doesn't take years
18:54-!-Guest3821 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:54<Chrill>True, so true
18:55<Gonozal_VIII>never tried growing new clothes, but there are a lot of nudists that run around without their clothes regrowing for years, so i guess it takes a long time
18:55<pv2b>also, body hair.
18:56<ln->pv2b: there is nothing bad about being without long hair for a while.
18:56<@Bjarni>Gonozal_VIII: for all you know they shave everywhere every day
18:56<pv2b>ln-: so, what's wrong with long hair if you can manage it?
18:56<Gonozal_VIII>it's gay^^
18:56<Chrill>This turned into quite the debate
18:56<@Bjarni>you have to spend time and resources managing it
18:57<pv2b>Bjarni: the same is true of many body parts.
18:57<pv2b>that's not an argument -- in that case why do soldiers shave?
18:57<ln->pv2b: long doesn't dry in 2 minutes.
18:58<pv2b>ln-: well, that's *their* problem.
18:58<@Bjarni>what if they are attacking Alaska?
18:58<@Bjarni>or Canada
18:58<ln->soldiers shave because a soldier isn't supposed to have a beard.
18:58<pv2b>or.... sweden
18:58<pv2b>ln-: "isn't supposed to".
18:58<ln->nor mustache.
18:59<pv2b>ln-: a soldier is supposed to kick ass in defense of his country
18:59<pv2b>hair is irrelevant to that unless it interferes with that
18:59<@Bjarni>soldiers are supposed to be identical grunts
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19:00<ln->pv2b: you have to assume certain axioms of what soldiers should be, or else it gets ridiculous and others laugh at you. (like everyone laughs at the swedish army.)
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19:00<pv2b>ln-: i don't think epople laugh at the swedish army because they allow soldiers with long heir.
19:00<pv2b>they laugh because it's majorly underfunded
19:00<Eddi|zuHause>in germany, the rule is, you either shave, or have a _real_ beard, not some 3-days-unshaved look
19:00<@Bjarni>makes sense
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19:01<@Bjarni>but how do you go from no beard to a full beard if you aren't allowed to pass the 3 day stage?
19:01<ln->the long hair thing is one of the stereotypical first impressions of the swedish army.
19:01<Eddi|zuHause>and if you have a beard, it may not interfere with the working of the gas mask
19:01<Gonozal_VIII>i can't grow a beard :'(
19:01<@Bjarni>Gonozal_VIII: why not?
19:01<Eddi|zuHause>Bjarni: during holidays
19:01<Gekz>Eddi|zuHause: no going outside for 2 weeks while you transition? xD
19:01<pv2b>ln-: anyway, a perception of weakness is a good thing. it makes the enemy underestimate you. then you kick their ass.
19:01<Gonozal_VIII>always red blonde stuff that looks stupid
19:01<@Bjarni>isn't it really simple... quit shaving
19:01<Gekz>or, purchase a BSD manual
19:02<Gekz>you instantly get a 50cm beard.
19:02<pv2b>Gekz: what manual do i need to buy to get the same length increase to other body parts?
19:02<Gekz>and you suddenly have the urge to homebrew beer
19:02-!-Gonozal_VIII was kicked from #openttd by Bjarni [my beard doesn't look stupid]
19:02<Gekz>pv2b: Rofltard's Guide to the Universe
19:02<Gekz>I for one would not like a half-a-metre long dong.
19:03<Gekz>that would just shit me.
19:03<@Bjarni>your beard would shit on you?
19:03<pv2b>exactly. i just need to know what to avoid.
19:03-!-Gonozal_VIII [] has joined #openttd
19:03<Gekz>pv2b: lol
19:03<Gonozal_VIII>i saw myself getting kicked
19:03<Gekz>everyone does.
19:03<pv2b>Gekz: this is normal
19:03<Gonozal_VIII>and client didn't realise that it was me so no rejoin
19:04<pv2b>maybe you turned off autorejoin
19:04<Gonozal_VIII>[01:02:30] *** Gonozal_VIII has been kicked from #openttd by Bjarni: my beard doesn't look stupid
19:04<Gonozal_VIII>[01:02:44] Guest3821: huh?
19:04<Gonozal_VIII>[01:02:51] Guest3821: why am i still here?
19:04<Gonozal_VIII>[01:03:26] *** Gonozal_VIII has joined #openttd.
19:04<pv2b>it thinks youre still guest3821
19:04<pv2b>use a real irc client
19:05<@Bjarni>that's just awesome
19:05<ln->i'm not 100% certain this is politically correct, but gives a short introduction to swedish military history:
19:05<Gekz>I am too l33t for this ircd.
19:06<NukeBuster>Hey guys,
19:06<NukeBuster>What do you think of
19:06<@Bjarni>ln-: hehe
19:07<Eddi|zuHause>if i only had bandwidth spare...
19:07<@Bjarni>actually Sweden ended up getting in a really bad situation during WW2. Germany wanted to send trains though Sweden to supply their troops in Norway. If they agreed then they would help Hitler. If they refused then they would be attacked by Hitler
19:08<@Bjarni>and they made a solution based on Swedish logics
19:08<@Bjarni>soldiers and weapons aren't allowed on board the same train
19:08<@Bjarni>if they promised that then they could use the Swedish rails
19:09<Gonozal_VIII>makes a lot of sense...
19:09<@Bjarni>one ammunition train blew up once... officially because ammo is dangerous
19:09<Eddi|zuHause>better than the austrian variant ;)
19:09<@Bjarni>however no real investigation were ever started
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19:09<Eddi|zuHause>99% of the population voted to join
19:09<Gonozal_VIII>as if there was any other choice
19:09<@Bjarni>it's not like it was against the will of the population
19:10<Eddi|zuHause>well, it was against half a dozen international treaties and stuff...
19:10<pv2b>words on a paper.
19:10<Gonozal_VIII>they're currently advertising for reprints of austrian newspapers from 38-45
19:10<@Bjarni>for how much?
19:11<Gonozal_VIII>they didn't say that
19:11<@Bjarni>will they send them across boarders if ordered from here?
19:11<Eddi|zuHause>yeah. like they negotiated the last rate of reparation of the versailles treaty down to a few million Reichsmark... which germany is still due
19:11<Gonozal_VIII>i guess so
19:12*Bjarni wonders about those newspapers
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19:13<@Bjarni>the question is if I should spend the needed time to read them
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19:13<@Bjarni>could be interesting
19:13<@Bjarni>but so many other things could be interesting
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19:14<Chrill>I can't read German :o
19:14<Gonozal_VIII>bjarni can
19:15<Chrill>But he's not as sexy as I am
19:15<ln->hint: if you are going to join a military alliance with germany, it's better to have your leader sign it on behalf of himself, not on behalf of the state.
19:16<ln->so when it is necessary to get rid of the alliance, it is enough for just the leader to resign.
19:16-!-dih [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
19:16<@Bjarni>good point
19:17<Chrill>But if you'd sign it with random citizen's name
19:17<Chrill>it'd be even easier
19:17<Chrill>What is an average citizen worth to a big nation like that? :O
19:17<pv2b>Bjarni: latest nightly doesn't start on this imac im sitting at btw. known bug?
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19:18<Gonozal_VIII>what's the signature of a random citizen worth for an alliance?
19:19<@Bjarni>pv2b: intel Leopard?
19:19<pv2b>Bjarni: yes
19:19<@Bjarni>known issue
19:19<ln->pv2b: use the PPC binary
19:19<@Bjarni>the nightly build server has a buggy linker :(
19:19<@Bjarni>and we have problems replacing it
19:20<@Bjarni>it only affects Leopard though
19:21<Gekz>why cant you just have two linkers?
19:21<Gekz>and when ld needs to be called specify LD=this-noobish-binary
19:21<@Bjarni>that's not the issue
19:21<@Bjarni>the issue is to get a linker to work with Leopard
19:22<@Bjarni>basically we need to update the linker but we can't find the source for a version that's recent enough
19:22<Gekz>well what's the linker you need and the versiom
19:23<Gekz>I have my ways to find these things -_-
19:23<@Bjarni>the problem is that the guys releasing the source lacks a maintainer
19:23<@Bjarni>so they didn't release anything that's recent enough
19:24<@Bjarni>meaning we have a problem
19:24<Gekz>there's no alternative?
19:24<@Bjarni>not that I know of
19:24<pv2b>Bjarni: is this "official apple code"?
19:25<@Bjarni>for some reason this linker is not part of the released source from Apple
19:25<@Bjarni>don't ask me why they give the source for all compilers and stuff and not the linker
19:26<pv2b>cant you run the binary linker from osx? but i guess your build machine is a non-osx machine
19:26<@Bjarni>it's gentoo
19:26<@Bjarni>if it were a mac then there would be no problem
19:26<@Bjarni>just download an Xcode update for free
19:26<@Bjarni>Xcode 2.2 or newer will do the trick
19:26<@Bjarni>and avoid this issue
19:30<@Bjarni> <-- this is the one
19:30<pv2b>not fixed in svn either?
19:32<@Bjarni>add support for 64-bit darwin targets <-- I wonder if this could be it
19:32<@Bjarni>or "add x86_64 diffs"
19:33<@Bjarni>it's worth a try
19:33<pv2b>or try building for 32-bit on osx/intel
19:33<@Bjarni>newest commit is from 2006
19:33<pv2b>or is is already on 32-bit? i dunno
19:33<fjb>Are rivers generated on a random map with the last commit?
19:34<@Bjarni>it is
19:34<Gonozal_VIII>no fjb
19:34<pv2b>unlikely to be that then
19:34<pv2b>'Update tarballs for Xcode 2.4'
19:34<pv2b>you said 2.2 was good enough?
19:34<pv2b>what is the version of the current linker?
19:35<@Bjarni>oh wait
19:35<@Bjarni>the tarball is based on the newest commit
19:35<pv2b>... yay.
19:35<@Bjarni>well... I have to ask TB about this again. He is the one actually installing the stuff
19:36<@Bjarni>he said he would try and then I haven't heard from him since
19:36<@Bjarni>basically because I didn't contacted him
19:36<@Bjarni>but since the binary is still broken I guess it didn't work
19:37<pv2b>here's a fork --
19:37<pv2b>tried that?
19:38<pv2b>seems to be a fork at least
19:38<pv2b>sure, but the iphone runs a stripped down osx
19:38<pv2b>i bet the linker still works for it
19:38<ln->Bjarni: we demand the iPhone version of OTTD to be ready by tomorrow!
19:39<@Bjarni>somebody already made it
19:39<@Bjarni>I think
19:40<ln->cool. well in that case the demand is not at all unreasonable, is it?
19:41<@Bjarni>donate the hardware to me and I will look at making an official port
19:42*Sacro prods Bjarni
19:43<@Bjarni>the problem is the resolution
19:43<pv2b>Bjarni: anyway, do try that fork of the linker -- sure it has some arm crap in there, but it might be fixed
19:43<@Bjarni>we still lack proper support for such small displays
19:43<pv2b>not to mention text entry
19:43<pv2b>that should be relatively easy though
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19:51<HUNRusty>hi all!
19:52<HUNRusty>can anybody help me with on_server_connect.scr
19:53<Sacro>yeah, anybody can
19:53<HUNRusty>thanx :)
19:53<HUNRusty>i read about all i could find on wiki and forum but it still doesnt work
19:54<HUNRusty>i have suse 10.3
19:54<Gonozal_VIII>wtf compile succeeded.. that's strange
19:54<HUNRusty>i put the scripts folder in the folder of binary and next to the data folder
19:55<Sacro>Gonozal_VIII: quick, call it beta4
19:55<HUNRusty>but nothing
19:55<Gonozal_VIII>buildottd actually worked for me... never did that before
19:55<HUNRusty>any idea?
19:58<HUNRusty>then i should come back later....
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20:25<Eddi|zuHause>hm... i think i'll switch back to kde 3.5, there are still too many annoyances...
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20:38<mcbane>can anyone tell me how that with the rivers work?
20:39<mcbane>i have the latest nightly and the river grf added. what else i need to do?
20:40<Gonozal_VIII>only works in the scenario editor for now
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21:25<BloodyRose>I came here to get some help..
21:26<BloodyRose>I just unpacked latest beta and have a problem with fonts. I have read readme and added Tahoma words to my cfg file, but fonts are still corrupted
21:26<Eddi|zuHause2>so, did you find any?
21:26<Eddi|zuHause2>what do you mean with corrupted?
21:27<BloodyRose>I see just symbols like ?????????
21:27<+glx>then you failed setting fonts in openttd.cfg :)
21:27<+glx>what did you do?
21:28<BloodyRose>I added Tahoma to my cfg file
21:29-!-SmatZ [] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
21:29<BloodyRose>I already had cfg file and added Tahoma after such strokes: small_font =
21:30<BloodyRose>here's part of my config
21:30<BloodyRose>small_font = Tahoma
21:30<BloodyRose>medium_font = Tahoma
21:30<BloodyRose>large_font = Tahoma
21:31<BloodyRose>I did sumthin wrong or what?
21:32<+glx>try openttd -dfreetype9
21:33<BloodyRose>um. I'm not in linux right now. I have win version
21:34-!-Jortuny [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:34<+glx>you can do that under windows :)
21:34-!-AntB [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:34<BloodyRose>hold on :)
21:35<BloodyRose>nothing's changed.
21:36<BloodyRose>fonts are still looking like ???
21:38<+glx>hmm debug_level9 was too much, retry openttd -dfreetype2
21:38<+glx>does it says something in the console?
21:38<BloodyRose>i didnt check it. lol
21:38<Chrill>gn all
21:39-!-AntB [] has joined #openttd
21:39<BloodyRose>here's what it says: dbg: [freetype] No font faces specified, using sprite fonts instead
21:40-!-Chrill [] has quit [Quit: SPIDER PIG, sPIDER PIG]
21:40<+glx>then you modified the wrong openttd.cfg
21:40<BloodyRose>where can I get good config?
21:40<+glx>where is the one you modified?
21:40<BloodyRose>and where to put it
21:41<BloodyRose>in the same folder as .exe file.
21:41<+glx>then it should use this one
21:43<BloodyRose>can u gimme ur config file?
21:44<+glx>openttd -dmisc3 will tell you which openttd.cfg he loaded
21:45<+glx>... found as personal directory
21:49<BloodyRose>thank u. I found a problem. Game folder was on my desktop. I am not american and name of Desktop folder is different here, in another encoding. I moved game folder to C drive and got it workin
21:50<+glx>shouldn't be a problem
21:51<+glx>you can check all paths searched by openttd with openttd -dmisc4
21:54<BloodyRose>why should I do this?
21:55<+glx>if openttd can't find where it is installed, then it's a bug
21:57<BloodyRose>openttd wasnt installed here. it was unpacked from archive. problem was in path to program. there was non latin letters in path.
21:58<+glx>still it should know where it is
21:58<+glx>if it doesn't it's a bug
21:59<BloodyRose>maybe it just couldnt read config because of non latin path
21:59<+glx>are you using win32 or win9x?
22:00<BloodyRose>I think
22:00<+glx>win32 has unicode support (so non latin char in path shouldn't matter)
22:00<+glx>but win9x doesn't
22:04<+glx>ok I can reproduce the problem, I'll try to fix it
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---Logclosed Mon Jan 21 00:00:49 2008