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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-02-03

---Logopened Sun Feb 03 00:00:34 2008
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03:28<Forked>useless dsl modem
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04:27<HMage>мямя. всем привет.
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05:10<redmonkey>my openttd 0.6.0-beta3 (linux-version) crashes every now and then, but not always at the same time and without doing anything.. very strange
05:11<Gekz>turn debug on
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05:17<redmonkey>Gekz: what debug level would you recommand?
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05:18<SpComb>Logs: (old: )
05:18<Gekz>redmonkey: well, the highest
05:19<Gekz>but that's personal preference
05:19<Gekz>you know a crash is happening, so detail is dire
05:21<LordAzamath>has anyone already played with this too?
05:21<LordAzamath>if is, I'd like to get some comments :D
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05:25<Rubidium>redmonkey: what about testing the yesterday's nightly and seeing whether it happens there too?
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05:29<redmonkey>Rubidium: i'd have to run it a few days.. it doesn't happy frequently.. and unfortunately i don't have the time for intensive testing
05:30<Rubidium>do you play with AIs?
05:30<Rubidium>then it is most likely a known (and fixed) bug
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05:34<LordAzamath>is there any good reason for this? ?
05:35<LordAzamath>why are they.. in a pattern
05:35<LordAzamath>I was just planting trees in tropic
05:35<LordAzamath>funny thing is that trees shouldn't be on desert anyways..
05:43<guru3>that's different
05:46<LordAzamath>bye all
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06:12<Alberth>Zoeff: Did you file a bugreport about the lack of autorenew yesterday?
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06:46<Amis>is there a reason why i cant press the Build at the Many random industries in the map editor? i could before
06:47<Wolf01>no cities?
06:47<Amis>have cities
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06:48<Amis>i can build the industries manually but i want a lot...
06:49<SmatZ>Amis: works for me... select Many random industries, then press Build
06:49<Amis>but the Build button is unavaliable
06:51<Amis>uhh wait... something wrong with the screenshot
06:51<Gekz>its a photo of you.
06:51<SmatZ>Amis: it is unavailable only when you select Many arndom industries?
06:52<SmatZ>I see the screenshot, not the photo :(
06:52<Amis>what photo of me?
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06:53<Amis>may i did something wrong in the patch configuration?
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06:55<Amis>i reopened but still nothing...
06:55<SmatZ>mmm the code has one bug
06:55<Amis>uhm... can it be a problem i have a town with 247.000?
06:56<SmatZ>but it shouldn't cause this
06:57<SmatZ>hmm it could
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06:58<Reven552>anyone here?
06:58<Reven552>i have a question about the game
06:59<Reven552>hows it going?
06:59<Reven552>are you skilled at the game, i have a question?
07:00<Amis>maybe i can answer but others are listening too :)
07:00<Reven552>ok, good
07:00<Reven552>im bothered by the tall building small house ratio in the game...
07:01<Reven552>... i find it horribly unrealistiv that when a city grows a bit its almost soley tall buildings present...
07:01<Reven552>... and almost no housing...
07:01<Reven552>... like residential houses and such...
07:02<Reven552>is there anyway to influence taht
07:02<Amis>well i think only coding... what i cant do
07:02<Reven552>ok, tx
07:03<Amis>SmatZ: i deleted the town but it still do not work, i hate it...
07:03<Amis>i have to cry...
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07:28<Reven552>have a question again
07:29<Reven552>how do you switch "ON" the newhouses switch?
07:29<Reven552>i have the 0.6.0 beta v3
07:29<Reven552>i want to get some new buildings in
07:29<SmatZ>Reven552: download newhouses grfs, then activate it
07:30<Reven552>you mean just add it as a grf in the grf menu?
07:30<SmatZ> some newgrfs to download, grfs are activated in grf menu
07:30<Reven552>ok, tx
07:30<Reven552>do you know where i can download the newhouses.grf?
07:31<SmatZ>you can choose
07:31<Reven552>k, tx a million :)
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07:40<Reven552>anyone know how to add buildings as supposed to replace them?
07:41<Reven552>*opposed to
07:41<Reven552>add more variation so to speak
07:43<Alberth>write a new newhouses.grf file
07:44<Alberth>Anybody can give some info on FS#1029? (; it seems to be the problem that Zoeff yesterday reported here
07:45<Alberth>in particular, what's the next step?
07:45<Alberth>i briefly looked at the patch, and I am not quite sure its ok. It also doesn't merge with r12030 atm
07:45<Reven552>what do you mean write a newhouses grf file?
07:46<Alberth>the GRF file is designed to replace existing houses. If you don't want that, you have to write a new version of it
07:48<Alberth>Sorry, issue is about auto-renew of trains (but it seems to extend to vehicles in general)
07:48<Reven552>i just read on several sites taht a file like taht has already been made
07:49<Reven552>called newhouses.grf and needs to be switched"ON"
07:49<Reven552>cant find it though
07:49<Reven552>might have misunderstood the whole thing
07:49<SmatZ>Reven552: those sites were about TTDPatch
07:49<Alberth>it's on isn't? the houses were replaced
07:51<Alberth>In openTTD, it is usually enough to make the GRF file available
07:51<Reven552>ah, ok
07:51<Reven552>ill try that then, tx again
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07:54<Amis>this 3x3 town growing can do any size lol...
07:56<Amis>is there any record in town size?
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08:05<joey_>Hey there
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08:06<DJGummikuh>hehe I like it how easy your source is compileable
08:06<DJGummikuh>just started a r12049 dedicated ^^
08:06<DJGummikuh>but I wanted to ask for the names the different landscapes have in the config file
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08:06<DJGummikuh>right now it's set to desert but I would like to change that
08:06<DJGummikuh>it's been ages since I last configured my other running server
08:09<DJGummikuh>hmm you don't talk much I take :)
08:10<SmatZ>DJGummikuh: valid values are temperate arctic tropic toyland
08:13<DJGummikuh>and desert?
08:13<DJGummikuh>because right now it runs as "desert" and gives me the desert theme
08:13<SmatZ>it is the old name
08:13<DJGummikuh>ah ok they were renamed?
08:13<SmatZ>it reads it and converts to new name
08:14<SmatZ>old values: normal hilly desert candy
08:15<yorick>I'm having a problem with the autopilot
08:16<yorick>it says its connected to the IRC server, but I can't find it
08:16<SmatZ>Brianetta is the author of autopilot (as far as I know)
08:16<yorick>@seen Brianetta
08:16<@DorpsGek>yorick: Brianetta was last seen in #openttd 4 days, 0 hours, 22 minutes, and 34 seconds ago: <Brianetta> Simply acknowledging your presence (:
08:17<yorick>its just repeating "Connected to IRC Server"
08:17<hylje>@seen DorpsGek
08:17<@DorpsGek>hylje: I have not seen DorpsGek.
08:19<SmatZ>maybe Ammlller would know... or other people from #openttdcoop
08:20<yorick>I'm having some trouble with the autopilot
08:20<yorick>it is repeating "Connected to IRC server"
08:20<Ammlller>which IRC server?
08:20<yorick> #autopilot
08:21<Ammlller>well, that should work, some other servers aren't possible, like quakenet or euirc
08:21<yorick>yes, but it doesn't work
08:21<yorick>it doesn't appear
08:22<yorick>and is repeating the same thing
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08:29<Alberth>how do you load cargo into a ship from a canal?
08:30<+glx>same as sea
08:30<Alberth>never mind, i found it
08:30<+glx>build a dock
08:31<Alberth>yeh, but I didn't have a ramp next to the canal
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08:33<Alberth>glx: can you give some info how to proceed with FS#1029? (lack of autorenew)
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08:40<DJGummikuh>what exactly triggers the notification that a company is about to become bankrupt?
08:41<DJGummikuh>I just got that message in the midst of june
08:41<SmatZ>DJGummikuh: negative bank account
08:41<DJGummikuh>for what period of time?
08:42<DJGummikuh>because I'm negative all the time ^^
08:42<Amis>i think its the amount of money you DONT have
08:42<SmatZ>if you are in red for 2 quarters, you get the first warning
08:42<SmatZ>after 4 quarters, you go bankrupt
08:42<DJGummikuh>ah ok
08:43<DJGummikuh>but if I get positive again, the counter will be reset right?
08:43<DJGummikuh>all right
08:43<DJGummikuh>I paid all my money for terraforming and installed one train that hauls coal
08:43<SmatZ>you have to be in positive when the check is done
08:43<DJGummikuh>but it takes about a year to travel ^^
08:43<DJGummikuh>when is the check?
08:43<Amis>tell me somebody... what the Other means in the finaces? and whats that money it take each month?
08:44<DJGummikuh>the money you pay the bank to avoid paying money to the country
08:44<SmatZ>every month
08:44<SmatZ>I think
08:45<SmatZ>no, every quarter
08:45<Amis>i made a map what my PC cant handle :D
08:46<Amis>it has 2x 600.000+ town with airports...
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08:46<Amis>oh wait
08:46<Amis>the other town is 1100.000
08:46<Amis>its as big as the capital city of hungary :D
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08:47<Amis>i see the circles! i see the structure of a town
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08:49<Amis>openttd taking 50% cpu xD from the 3800Mhz
08:50<Amis>is there any 64bit OpenTTD? :)
08:50<Prof_Frink>alan@frinkpad:~$ file `which openttd`
08:50<Prof_Frink>/usr/games/openttd: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.6.0, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), stripped
08:51<Amis>and all or aspecial one?
08:51<Yorick>can I log the irc traffic recieved by the autopilot in some way?
08:52<DJGummikuh>damn I have not enough money :(((
08:52<DJGummikuh>I don't really get a good start off... my initial track was too expensive
08:54<DJGummikuh>wtf are Transfer Credits?
08:55<Alberth>credits you get when you 'transfer' rather than 'unload'
08:56<Alberth>(to a station where another vehicle picks it up and transports it further)
08:56<DJGummikuh>Am I getting this right that I now can drop coal at a station taht also transports coal and it doesn't mix up no longer?
08:57<DJGummikuh>like it did before?
08:57<Alberth>what do you mean 'mix up'?
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08:58<Alberth>SmatZ: no pictures! :)
08:58<DJGummikuh>well in older versions of openttd when you had stations A B C and A and B offered Coal and C was the plant, when you transfered coal from A to B for the second train to continue it to C along with the coal produced at B, it would mess up the calculation
08:58<Alberth>ah, 'yes'
08:58<DJGummikuh>COOL :)
08:59<Alberth>although it is 'virtual' money, computed afterwards afaik
08:59<DJGummikuh>well as long as it calcualtes correctly in the end it's fine for me :)
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09:01<DJGummikuh>hehe still no other r12049 server around ^^
09:01<Nesta>Is the linux version to use as a server only?
09:01<DJGummikuh>Nesta: no
09:01<DJGummikuh>I'm running linux version right now
09:01<Amis>i remember when i had a train bringing iron ore from far than it unloaded all at a station from where trucks brang it to the factory, i could not understand why one of the 40 trucks have -$140.00 income
09:01<DJGummikuh>Amis: yes that was what I meant :)
09:02<Nesta>Is it possible to set up OpenTTD for that purpose?
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09:02<Nesta>Was going to load it on my web server to run all the time
09:02<DJGummikuh>Nesta: yes
09:03<DJGummikuh>openttd -D
09:03<Rubidium>DJGummikuh: why isn't the linux version able to use as a server only?
09:03<DJGummikuh>I'm doing that one as well :)
09:03<DJGummikuh>Rubidium: hmm perhaps I missunderstood him
09:03<DJGummikuh>I thought he asked if the linux version is limited to server use only
09:03<DJGummikuh>so since I'm running it as both right now, I answered no :)
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09:05<Nesta>So, as per the FAQ, I just install OpenTDD on my web server, copy the required files... and I assume edit a file some where to set game name, etc... and run server?
09:05<DJGummikuh>Nesta it's quite easy to set up a dedicated under linux... I'm running two in parallel right now.. one 0.5.3 and one r12049
09:05<DJGummikuh>Nesta: yes
09:05<Yorick>is there any way to let the autopilot connect to quakenet?
09:05<DJGummikuh>you need to edit the openttd.cfg
09:05<DJGummikuh>then you're good to go by typing ./openttd -D in the directory where the executable lies
09:05<Nesta>Thanks DJ, I will get to work on this right now
09:05<DJGummikuh>assuming you have shell access by ssh or whatever
09:05<DJGummikuh>yw :)
09:06<Nesta>Oh yea I do.. run TeamSpeak through it =)
09:06<DJGummikuh>through ssh ?
09:06<DJGummikuh>btw someone didn't answer the question here for what I pay money to "Other" each month
09:06<DJGummikuh>what is it?
09:06<+glx>loan interrest and other things
09:06<Nesta>Well upload files, run install and TS through shell....
09:07<DJGummikuh>er... there is a seperate line "Loan Interest" ?
09:07<DJGummikuh>Nesta: ah
09:07<Amis>you pay 500-1000 (depending on inflation) a year
09:07<Nesta>Pretty sure this would work the same way....
09:07<DJGummikuh>Amis: yeah but for what.. currently I pay 624 per year
09:08<Amis>thats what i want to know too
09:08<DJGummikuh>damn and IM nearly bankrupt again >.<
09:08<DJGummikuh>but at least I afforded a second train ^^
09:08<Prof_Frink>DJGummikuh: No-one really knows.
09:08<Alberth>Amis: nah, I have no inflation, and still pay 300/year
09:08<Prof_Frink>It was there in TTO
09:08<+glx>loan repayed?
09:08<Alberth>it's rent for your HQ :)
09:08<Amis>then 200-1000
09:09<DJGummikuh>hmm I wonder why noone joins on my r12049 server
09:09<DJGummikuh>Alberth: rofl
09:09<Amis>well im thinking about.. you pay that cuz you have a bank account? :D
09:09<Prof_Frink>LA actions also get listed there.
09:09<DJGummikuh>I'll destryo it in an instance :)
09:09<Alberth>and new statues
09:10<DJGummikuh>ah yeah... shiny statues :D
09:10<DJGummikuh>hmm I love the new status information about how full a train ist
09:10<Amis>what cause a town to shrink?
09:10<DJGummikuh>not enough transport
09:11<DJGummikuh>rats in the streets :)
09:11<DJGummikuh>ah and yet another question
09:11<Amis>but i changed nothing in the last 10 years
09:11<DJGummikuh>when will the arbitrary limit of 8 companies be removed? :)
09:11<DJGummikuh>or isn't it arbitrary
09:12<Prof_Frink>DJGummikuh: "When it is."
09:12<DJGummikuh>ah ^^
09:12<DJGummikuh>what is it in for anyways? is there any reason for it?
09:12<DJGummikuh>I'm just curious
09:12<Amis>noooo... my town will dieeee...
09:13<Prof_Frink>DJGummikuh: Hysterical Raisins again
09:14<DJGummikuh>something is not working right here
09:14<DJGummikuh>I have two coal trains
09:14<DJGummikuh>one has reached 100% and the other came to 13 or so
09:14<DJGummikuh>but the 100% train wouldn't leave
09:14<Alberth>timetable enabled?
09:14<+glx>theorically it should be possible to have 16 companies, but a lot of things have to be checked
09:14<DJGummikuh>hmm yeah
09:15<DJGummikuh>glx: hmm where does that limit come from then?
09:15<+glx>map array and other things
09:16<DJGummikuh> ah
09:16<DJGummikuh>Amis: which landscape you play?
09:16<+glx>some bitfield too
09:18<Eddi|zuHause3><Amis> is there a reason why i cant press the Build at the Many random industries in the map editor? i could before <- maybe you set industries to none in the difficulty options?
09:19<DJGummikuh>the fill counter is right behind the sign of the station >.<
09:20<SmatZ> scary, isn't it
09:21<SmatZ>it seems to prefer NE and NW directions to grow
09:21<DJGummikuh>whats that on the upper half of the map?
09:21<SmatZ>the city
09:22<DJGummikuh>looking scary
09:22<SmatZ>yeah :-x
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09:29<Nesta>DJGummikuh, Still around?
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09:35<DJGummikuh>Nesta: yes
09:35<DJGummikuh>can't I replace vehicles no more?
09:36<DJGummikuh>I want to renew the engines on my trains but I don't know how
09:36<DJGummikuh>the interface changed
09:36<Alberth>with the replace-vehicles GUI you mean?
09:37<Alberth>if yes, it's at the bottom of the train overview window
09:39<Alberth>I don't seem to get 'road vehicle out of date, needs replacement' messages
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09:39<DJGummikuh>Alberth: I don't see it
09:39<DJGummikuh>I have this grouping interface
09:39<DJGummikuh>and then I have Available Trains | Manage list | and this arrow down and a red an da green flag
09:40<Alberth>click 'manage list'
09:40<DJGummikuh>I want to replace my old vehicles :(
09:40<DJGummikuh>I didn't see that one
09:40*DJGummikuh hits himself
09:42<Yorick>I'm trying to use the base costs mod, but whatever parameters I fill in, it doesn't do anything :(
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09:48<Yorick>hmm...the autopilot is still not working
09:48<Yorick>the normal part of it works, but it says it's connected to IRC and I can't find it
09:53<UnderBuilder>one question... what grfs of the opengfx proyect work in 0.5.3?
09:53<Sacro>danger will robinson!
09:57<Yorick>there seems to be a problem with the $::irc join command
09:58<+glx>UnderBuilder: they should all work (most of them are just action A grfs)
09:58<UnderBuilder>even the industries replacements?
09:58<+glx>if they are just graphics change yes
09:58<Eddi|zuHause3>newindustries is about industry behaviour, industry look could be changed long ago
09:59-!-Takato [] has joined #openttd
09:59<+glx>if they are newindustries they won't work
09:59<+glx>the best way is to try it yourself ;)
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10:25<SmatZ> even more scary :) here, it decided to grow to the NE and SE directions
10:26<hylje>scary indeed
10:27<Amis>thats funny
10:27<Amis>cant you send me the map?
10:28<hylje>certainly a map to build a mass transit system in a huge city would be intriguing
10:29<SmatZ>Amis: here it is
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10:32<Nesta>So, I installed the linuz server, got it working, but I dont see where to configure the name, etc....
10:33<Nesta>I dont see it in the directory I created
10:33<Amis>smartz, with what version you saved the game? cuz i cant open :P
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10:36<Rubidium>Amis: I guess something recent like r12049
10:37<Amis>small medium large, city is the largest or its between large and medium?
10:40<SmatZ>Amis: savegame version last changed in r12042
10:41<SmatZ>Amis: probably the largest, and it has probably set the 'city' flag, so it grows faster (just guesses)
10:41<Amis>and one more: how much time you clicked the expand? :D
10:42<SmatZ>Amis: 100000 times :)
10:42<SmatZ>edited source to repeat the operation 100000 times ;-)
10:43<SmatZ>it took roughly one hour
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10:47<Amis>phej... that was close...
10:47<Amis>i started a mouse clicker
10:47<Amis>it clicked 4600 times on the many random towns and i couldnt stop it
10:48<Amis>1 click / 0.001 second
10:49<Hendikins>SmatZ: Good lord
10:49<Hendikins>(I just looked at the screenshot)
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10:55<Zoeff>question time!
10:55<Zoeff>How does one remove only one part of a station?
10:55<SmatZ>Zoeff: click on Remove button
10:57<Zoeff>doesnt work on airports that are connected to a train station though. :'(
10:57<SmatZ>you can remove the airport by dynamite
10:58<Zoeff>yes but wont it remove the things connected to it as well?
11:01<Amis>am not good in drawing but its fun :D
11:02-!-Zr40 [~zr40@2001:960:786:0:21b:63ff:fe9e:ab24] has joined #openttd
11:07<redmonkey>hehe, nice idea Amis :)
11:07<Amis>what "better roads" means at towns?
11:10<Eddi|zuHause3>it means it cleans up road bits that can not be connected anywhere (dead end)
11:10<Amis>nothing else?
11:11<Eddi|zuHause3>i'm not sure what else has changed
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11:11<Amis>i wonder why the no more roads option is not allowed... not coded in map editor or removed for some reason?
11:11<Amis>with it we could build nice maps
11:12<Amis>any idea?
11:13<Mark>the editor wont make towns if "no roads" is on
11:13<Amis>but i NEED IT!
11:13<Ammler>does cities grow in scenario editor?
11:13<Ammler>so why you need it?
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11:13<Amis>to expand towns to follow the roads i do
11:14<Mark>doesnt it just say "no roads not recommended" or so?
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11:18<yoe_>anyone else having problems compiling with --enable-debug=3 --enable-desync-debug=2? in core/random_func.cpp
11:21<Rubidium>not anymore
11:21<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12050 /trunk/src/core/random_func.cpp: -Fix: random_func broke for desync debug.
11:21<Rubidium>though I'm wondering why you want to use desync debug
11:22<Rubidium>and especially that level of desync debug
11:23<yoe_>just playing around... i'm not very familiar with C but i'd like to see how everything works with vehicles leaving/entering stations, what funcs that are called etc. and instead of bothering you guys i thought i'd investigate it myself =)
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11:26<Nesta>Ok, so everytime I edit and save my openttd.cfg and upload it to the server (linux) and start ./openttd , it just loads the default values
11:26<yoe_>Rubidium, what should i use to get the "normal" debug output to STDOUT? --enable-debug=<int> didn't do anything here..
11:26<Rubidium>run openttd -d 9
11:26<yoe_>oh, thanks =)
11:27<Rubidium>the --enable-debug just adds debugging symbols and other useful stuff when trying to debug stuff in the debugger
11:27<Rubidium>anyhow, the binary you are running will be dead slow
11:28<yoe_>i did a new configure without desync
11:29<Rubidium>debug 2 disables most optimizations and 3 even disables any inlining of code (so lots of overhead due to function calls)
11:29<Nesta>Should the openttd.cfg have this in it connect_to_ip = EYÿEYÿEYÿEYÿEYÿ ?
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11:30<Rubidium>does you server have more than 8 network interfaces (physical and virtual)?
11:31<Rubidium>then you need a very recent nightly
11:31<Rubidium>betas (or stables) will not work correctly
11:33<Amis>to have nightly, the only thing i have to do is to dowload the latest nighly and copy it onto openttd?
11:34<Amis>or what do i have to do?
11:34<Nesta>Its asking for a password....
11:35<Nesta>For the SVN that is
11:35<Rubidium>well you shouldn't try to commit I guess
11:36<Rubidium>checkouts and updates do not require passwords
11:36<Amis>somebody? nightly? thats the way to do?
11:36<Rubidium>Amis: probably, but I never actually installed a nightly
11:37<Amis>and yes it works... and yes i can open SmatZ map :D
11:38<Nesta>I dont know why it was asking for a password.. maybe the wrong address or something.. but I downloaded the latest nightly they have from the website.. uploading it now
11:41<SmatZ>Amis good :)
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11:45<yoe_>hm, wouldn't a "ETA" be kinda useful in the status window of vehicles (e.g. "Heading for Station B, ETA 00:01:29")?
11:46<Amis>wow... river tool
11:50<SmatZ>yoe_: impossible
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11:51<Eddi|zuHause3>i'd not say impossible, but complicated
11:51<Eddi|zuHause3>you could have YAPF return the length of the path it chose
11:51<Eddi|zuHause3>and mangle that with some kind of average speed
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11:51<SmatZ>but the problem is how to determine your average speed on that way
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11:52<yoe_>yeah, it'll be pretty complicated.. but what about a simple one? for, lets say "without anything in my way, i'll be there XX:XX:XX or something
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11:53<Eddi|zuHause3>the main use of that should be estimating a timetable (instead of filling out one run)
11:53<yoe_>or maybe base it on data.. average time per delivery
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11:55<ln->oh, denmark has two internets.
11:56<SpComb>how many internets does finland have?
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11:57<Eddi|zuHause3>i have teh jiggainternets!
11:57<SpComb>hah, so finland is at least half a millions better than denmark
11:57<SpComb>(except that my internet traffic to europe is moslty routed via denmark)
11:57<yoe_>what dev tool would you suggest under linux?
11:58<yoe_>for this project i mean
11:58<SpComb>svn? make? gcc?
11:58<SpComb>and vim
11:58<Eddi|zuHause3>half copy...
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12:05<Amis>somebody should make a new, improved city growing algorithm :)
12:06<Rubidium>and that somebody is .... Amis. Congratulations with the task!
12:06<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause3: thats a sweet-ass comic
12:07<Amis>and yes! i killed 2,724,586 people with one click :D
12:07<Yorick>TLC Error: char map unbalanced <-- is that normal when starting the autopilot with 0.6.0-beta3?
12:08*Yorick wants glx to respond
12:08<Amis>question: why the tree planting is limited?
12:08<Rubidium>Yorick: you better ask the author of autopilot about it
12:09<Yorick>@seen Brianetta
12:09<@DorpsGek>Yorick: Brianetta was last seen in #openttd 4 days, 4 hours, 14 minutes, and 49 seconds ago: <Brianetta> Simply acknowledging your presence (:
12:10<Yorick>I would love to do that
12:10<Yorick>but he's not here
12:10<Nesta>My linuxI'll use the console command to change the server_ip and saveconfig then download the config and it is changed... but when I restart the server it resets everything
12:10<Yorick>reload_config set?
12:11<Nesta>to true or false?
12:11-!-LordAzamath is now known as LordAzamath[baltica]
12:12<Nesta>it was set to false... set it to true... still doign the same thing
12:12<Eddi|zuHause3>Nesta: the game overwrites the .cfg file on exit
12:12<Eddi|zuHause3>exit the game first
12:12<Eddi|zuHause3>then edit the config
12:12<Eddi|zuHause3>then start
12:13<Nesta>Uploading config....
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12:14<Nesta>Start server...
12:14<Nesta>Still jacked up
12:14<Nesta>'server_ip' changed to:
12:15<Nesta>'server_name' changed to: My example dedicated gameserver
12:19<Amis>man... Trigger Happy TV is amazing :D
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12:19<Eddi|zuHause3>are you sure you changed the right config file?
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12:23<Yorick>I would really like to get the autopilot to work today :(
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12:35<Yorick>I'm trying your autopilot, but there is one problem with it, as soon as I try to join my server, error: char map unbalanced appears
12:35<SmatZ>sounds Yoda-ish :)
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12:39<Yorick>Brianetta ?
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12:43<Yorick>Brianetta , please, help!
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12:44*Yorick slaps Brianetta's bottom and grins cheekily
12:45<Sacro>Yorick: he isn't single :p
12:45<Yorick>the hydrairc slap command author had soo many inspiration
12:47<peol>could someone point me in the right direction? how would one make a station to trigger on vehicle leaving/entering (e.g. run a count function that tracks vehicles to get throughput per month)
12:47<Yorick>ask belugas to implement that grf feature :-)
12:48<Gonozal_VIII>there's a patch on flyspray for waypoint stats
12:48<Gonozal_VIII>hmm even station stats i think
12:49<Gonozal_VIII>just woke up, not too good at thinking atm^^
12:49<Brianetta>Yorick: wtf
12:49<Brianetta>I'm trying to clean the sofa fabric
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12:49<peol>hm, i never found any working ones (the waypoint stats i found was for r4XXX)
12:50<Gonozal_VIII>update it ;-)
12:50<peol>hehe, sure, because i'm a god in C-programming ;)
12:52<Gonozal_VIII>you are? cool
12:52<Yorick>Brianetta, please help *begs*
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12:54<Brianetta>Yorick: With what?
12:55<Yorick>the autopilot doesn't let me join
12:55<Brianetta>Which autopilot?
12:55<Brianetta>Which server?
12:56<Yorick>hmm...private server
12:56<Yorick>it lets me join
12:56<Yorick>but then gives an error
12:56<Brianetta>What error?
12:56<Brianetta>You need to volunteer a great deal more information
12:56<Yorick>[18:35] <Yorick> I'm trying your autopilot, but there is one problem with it, as soon as I try to join my server, error: char map unbalanced appears
12:57<Brianetta>Never seen that error before. haven't heard of it. Is this at the server, or in your game?
12:57<Yorick>the server
12:57<Brianetta>Try using a less weird name
12:57<Yorick>Error sourcing /Documents and Settings/Eigenaar/Mijn documenten/downloads/OpenTT
12:57<Yorick>D/FreeWrap/autopilot.tcl: char map list unbalanced
12:57<Brianetta>Try using a less weird name
12:57<Yorick>less wierd what?
12:57<Yorick>as client?
12:58<Brianetta>What's your player name?
12:58<Brianetta>OK, so the next thing to look at is your config file
12:58<Brianetta>The only thing left is that you've changed the responses
12:59<Yorick>only thing I've changed is the irc part, but even if I disable it
12:59<Brianetta>Even if it's disabled, the IRC settings must remain valid
12:59<Yorick>they are
12:59<Brianetta>otherwise the file doesn't parse properly
13:00<Brianetta>What are your responses?
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13:00<Yorick>here is a copy of my openttd.cfg:
13:00<Yorick>my what?
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13:01<Gonozal_VIII>maybe get rid of that _ in the nick and server name?
13:01<Brianetta>GoneWacko: Doesn't matter
13:02<Brianetta>Yorick: Are you using the latest version of autopilot?
13:02<GoneWacko>Learn to tab complete you!
13:02<Gonozal_VIII>hehe poor gonewacko, always gets highlighted because of me
13:02<Brianetta>Gonozal_VIII: I did tab-complete :-p
13:02<Gonozal_VIII>i know that :P
13:02<Gonozal_VIII>but gontab isn't enough
13:02<Brianetta>Yorick: Try the latest SVN release
13:03<GoneWacko>You'd be thoroughly retarded if you actually wrote my nickname entirely by hand
13:03<Brianetta>Gon*: Work out between you which of you is responsible for this sorry state of affairs.
13:03<Yorick>Brianetta, I'll try, but I'm going to eat something first
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13:04<Gonozal_VIII>since when does one have to leave irc for food?
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13:05<Gonozal_VIII>fish = Today's fish is Trout a la crème. Enjoy your meal. <-- that setting seems to be very important
13:10<Amis>good night all! byebye
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13:12<Sacro>i'm sure _42_ used to respond
13:16<Ammler>Sacro: nope, it doesn't
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13:17<Ammler>just tested at #openttdcoop
13:17<SmatZ>_42_ is not here
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13:31<Yorick>well brianetta, how do I check out the svn?
13:32<Yorick>peol, I know about that =D
13:33<Yorick>Access to the SVN server on is only available through ssh.
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13:33<peol>svn checkout <url> <local dir>
13:34<Yorick>but that is not very nice fr a windows system
13:34<Gonozal_VIII>tortoise svn :-)
13:35<Yorick>without having to install more junk, please
13:35<Gonozal_VIII>that's no junk
13:35<Eddi|zuHause3><peol> could someone point me in the right direction? how would one make a station to trigger on vehicle leaving/entering (e.g. run a count function that tracks vehicles to get throughput per month) <- there might be a function "VehicleLoadUnload" or something that will trigger on arrival of a train on a station, and will also send it going again, you could hook up the counting there
13:35<Yorick>it is
13:35<Rubidium>what scm works nice on windows?
13:35<Gonozal_VIII>you also need tortoise merge for applying and creating patches
13:35<Yorick>no you dont
13:35<Gonozal_VIII>do too
13:36<Yorick>MSYS _O_
13:36<Rubidium>nah... applying patches on windows systems is much better done in Microsoft Word
13:36<peol>Eddi|zuHause3, aye. i found EnterStation/LeaveStation in train_cmd.cpp
13:36<Gonozal_VIII>microsoft word wtf?
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13:36<Gonozal_VIII>ah... joke
13:37<Rubidium>well... notepad sucks even more
13:37<Rubidium>and with MS Word you can (manually) do highlighting
13:37<Gonozal_VIII>you don't need a texteditor for applying patches..
13:37<Rubidium>you do not want to know how many people apply patches that way ;)
13:38-!-mindlesstux [~mindlesst@2001:470:1f07:2df:240:f4ff:fe52:a74e] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:38<Rubidium>as a matter of fact I even did it
13:38<Gonozal_VIII>well i did that too with too many conflicts to solve in tortoise merge...
13:38<Gonozal_VIII>but not on a regular basis
13:39*Rubidium wonders whether backporting is 'on a regular basis'
13:42<Yorick>yes, but now tell me how to get the svn using the windows svn
13:42<Rubidium>a) there is no "windows svn"
13:42<Gonozal_VIII>tortoise svn :P
13:42<Yorick>svn for windows
13:42<Gonozal_VIII>right click on a folder and svn checkout
13:42<Rubidium>Gonozal_VIII: that is not svn for windows
13:42<Yorick>WITHOUT tortoise!
13:43<Gonozal_VIII>it works fine in windows
13:43<Rubidium>svn for windows is the command line svn client from svn built to run on windows
13:43<Rubidium>so it should be done as peol said
13:43<Yorick>Access to the SVN server on is only available through ssh.
13:44<Rubidium>tried svn+ssh://<whatever> ?
13:44-!-saati [] has joined #openttd
13:46<saati>in 0.6-beta3 mail/goods tram dissapear (i cant buy new ones) sometime near 1997, is this a bug or by design?
13:47-!-Zavior [] has joined #openttd
13:47<Sacro>MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russians visiting a health resort received a rude shock when a nurse used hydrogen peroxide instead of water to give them enemas.
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13:47<Rubidium>saati: probably by design (no new trams after somewhere in the 1950s/1960s I guess)
13:48<Gonozal_VIII>you can turn on the patch option "vehicles never expire"
13:49<Yorick>svn: Can't create tunnel: Can't find file.
13:50<Gonozal_VIII>tunnels have to be placed slope :-)
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13:51<Gonozal_VIII>make sure your internet is sloped
13:51<Yorick>[19:51] Yorick is connected via SSL (secure link)
13:51<Yorick>I think my internet is sloped enough
13:52<Gonozal_VIII>huh, where did the words go in the first line
13:52<Yorick>"/whois Yorick"
13:52-!-Jortuny is now known as Jortuny-away
13:52<Gonozal_VIII>[19:50:21] Guest232: tunnels have to be placed slope :-)
13:52<Gonozal_VIII>i wrote more...
13:53<Gonozal_VIII>and my nick :S
13:53<saati>Gonozal_VIII: thx
13:53<Yorick>[19:50] <Gonozal_VIII> tunnels have to be placed slope :-)
13:53<Yorick>Brianetta ?
13:54*Yorick gives Brianetta a clout round the head with a fresh copy of HydraIRC
13:58<Yorick>someone help me?
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13:59<LordAzamath[baltica]>with what?
13:59-!-LordAzamath[baltica] is now known as LA
13:59<Yorick>trying to checkout from a ssh+svn server
13:59<Brianetta>Are you using the private key?
13:59<Gonozal_VIII>just use tortoise :P
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14:00<Brianetta>There's no such thing as anonymous ssh
14:00<Yorick>yes I know
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14:00<Brianetta>Which ssh client are you using?
14:00<Brianetta>and which SVN client?
14:01<Yorick>Anonymous SVN access for autopilot seems to be the title of your post
14:01<Yorick>there comes the problem
14:01<Brianetta>Anonuymous SVN, yes, but not anonymous ssh
14:01<Yorick>putty with Subversion standard client
14:02<Brianetta>When you say standard client, do you mean the Unix one, or Tortoise?
14:02<Yorick>Unix one, running on windows
14:02<+glx>putty + svn works for me
14:02<Brianetta>What did you do with the secret key?
14:02<Yorick>yes, but I dont know how to set up and you do
14:02<+glx>but you need a public key :)
14:02<Brianetta>glx: You need a secret one, ironically
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14:03<Yorick>I put the secret key in the putty folder
14:03<Yorick>I dunno how to do it
14:03<Gonozal_VIII>you need to upload your private key to a website
14:03<Brianetta>Gonozal_VIII: You're misunderstanding this.
14:04<Yorick>ah, thanks
14:04<Yorick>Ammler: don't make it that easy
14:04<Yorick>you spoiled all the puttistic fun
14:04<Ammler>I wasn't able to checkout it either
14:05<Ammler>Brianetta: is 42 last revision?
14:05<Brianetta>hang on
14:05<Gonozal_VIII>putting the private key in some dir for a program to read isn't exactly the best for security
14:06<Brianetta>Gonozal_VIII: There's no other way to do it
14:06<Brianetta>Since that private key is available to download, it's hardly an issue
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14:07<Ammler>Brianetta: how to checkout it with linux?
14:08<Ammler>should be easy, I assume :)
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14:08<Yorick>svn svn+ssh://...
14:09<Yorick>svn co ... , I mean
14:09<Ammler>hmm can you be more specific?
14:09<Yorick>svn co svn+ssh://
14:10<Ammler>and the private key?
14:12<Yorick>how should I know that?
14:13<Yorick>hmm...I like that winmerge-thingy :)
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14:18<Yorick>Brianetta: the same problem again!
14:18<DirtYiCE>any NoAI people here?
14:19<Rubidium>Yorick: you should get the SSL key needed for the ssh connection
14:19<Rubidium>and you can find that on the forum
14:19<Gonozal_VIII>most people here are not ais
14:19<Yorick>Rubidium: ammler gave me the source
14:19<Gonozal_VIII>or any kind of i
14:20<Rubidium>DirtYiCE: why?
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14:20<Yorick>DirtYiCE: *check
14:20<Yorick>but I think you should ask Rubidium, he's the main dev
14:20<Yorick>on it
14:20<DirtYiCE>i just started to (or try) make an ai
14:21*Rubidium has very very little AI knowledge
14:22<DirtYiCE>well currently..
14:22<DirtYiCE>why can't I change colors?
14:22<DirtYiCE>but it's not the most important thing..
14:22<DirtYiCE>only a nice to have thing :)
14:22<Gonozal_VIII>ai doesn't care about colours ;-)
14:23<Rubidium>DirtYiCE: because the API is far from finished and colours are very low on the todo list
14:23<DirtYiCE>where is the todo list?
14:23<Rubidium>and the API isn't going far lately due to serious time constraints
14:24<Yorick>somewhere inside Rubidiums head
14:24<Rubidium>actually there isn't one
14:24<DirtYiCE>oh :)
14:25<DirtYiCE>anyway, what do you reccomend to start with? road transport or air transport?
14:25<Gonozal_VIII>air is easier
14:25<Rubidium>air is quick money, road transport is more challenging
14:25<DirtYiCE>so then i should make somethong working with air, tnen after challenge with road :)
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14:26<Gonozal_VIII>a good train ai would be nice
14:27<DirtYiCE>and what's with the LowerRaise patch? did it get into trunk?
14:29<Rubidium>I have no idea what patch you're talking about
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14:32<Yorick> works!
14:32<Yorick>I put an email
14:32<DirtYiCE>hmm.. how can i get a list of available cargos?
14:32<DirtYiCE>i see no AICargoList
14:33<Rubidium>then you have to iterate them manually I guess
14:34<Yorick>Brianetta: email needs to be filled in
14:34<DirtYiCE>Rubidium: hmm.. but where can i get cargo_ids?
14:35<DirtYiCE>( sorry if i ask stupid questions )
14:35<Rubidium>nowhere, just that it is 0..31
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14:36<DirtYiCE>or maybe get it from vechiles? because i shouldn't care with cargos that i can't transport..
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14:53<Yorick>the autopilot is just not coming up with unpausing the game when going from 0 to 1 client
14:53<Yorick>but when I go from 1 to 2, it unpauses
14:53<Yorick>and when I go back to 1, it unpauses again :(
14:53<Yorick>going from 1 to 0 pauses the game, as it should
14:55<valhallasw>then fix your config file?
14:55<Yorick>its at pause_level = 0
14:55<Yorick>and min_players = 0
14:55<Nesta>What should this variable be set to? "lan_internet"
14:55<valhallasw>sounds like a variable that's hardcoded in one location and variable in the other
14:56<Yorick>maybe the coop guys have changed the thing
14:57<Yorick>ah, I can see $::players > $::pause_level && $::pause_level >= 0
14:57<Yorick>on onjoin
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14:59<Yorick>it's a variable on both
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15:05<Nesta>Any one know why I would be having a problem with the config file resetting everytime I start the linux server?
15:06<Gonozal_VIII>not beginning with a newline? :-)
15:06<Eddi|zuHause3>EWrongWindow detected
15:07<Nesta>Going to try it
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15:07<Yorick> seems to miss the clientcount
15:08<Nesta>Should I be using the -D command?
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15:09<Nesta>Gonozal_VIII - Didn't help
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15:11<Ammler>Yorick|AFK: older ottds hadn't the pauselevel
15:11<Ammler>thats why Brian made that in autopilot
15:12<Ammler>if you like to switch off, pauselevel, set it to -1
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15:12<Ammler>in other hand you can switch off min_players with 0
15:13<Ammler>pause_level = min_players - 1
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15:14<planetmaker>any of the devs here? In nightly 12025 on my mac the currency symbol for euro doesn't work. I got a question mark there...
15:16<Rubidium>planetmaker: and in 12050?
15:16<Rubidium>because I'm not fancying fixing already fixed bugs
15:16<Rubidium>furthermore did you compile yourself?
15:17<Nesta>Rubidium - Know why my openttd.cfg would be resetting everytime I start the linux server?
15:18<Rubidium>I got absolutely no idea
15:18<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12051 /branches/noai/ (345 files in 26 dirs): [NoAI] -Sync: with trunk (r11795:12050).
15:18<peol>Nesta, write protect it ;-)
15:19<Rubidium>but it is most likely because you have invalid settings in there
15:20<Nesta>I was thinking that LoL
15:20<planetmaker>rubidium: I didn't compile myself. Just from the archive. Haven't tested, but will test with xxx50.
15:23<Nesta>peol - No dice, still loads up in the default, just doesn't change file now
15:24<CIA-1>OpenTTD: maedhros * r12052 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix [FS#1737] (r11494): The cargo translation table was loaded at the right time, but all the other global variables were now loaded too early. ;)
15:24<peol>probably some invalid settings as Rubidium noted
15:24<Nesta>The damn thing is so crunched together I cant make head or tails of most of it anyway LoL
15:26<Nesta>Any one have a working config file, I could nab to work off of?
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15:26<planetmaker>rubidium: I got a ? on the latest nightly, too.
15:27<planetmaker>for the currency symbol instead of euro that is
15:27<Rubidium>just a black one or a red one?
15:27<Rubidium>and are you using any newgrfs?
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15:28<planetmaker>The right colour. In all places, like status bar, money chart...
15:28<Maedhros>actually, i'm not getting any symbol at all where the euro symbol should be in options menu dropdown
15:28<planetmaker>I've the openttdcoop grf package...
15:28<planetmaker>and was playing on their server...
15:29<Rubidium>the euro character works for me
15:29<Maedhros>i can just about see it on the in-game status bar, but it seems to be the same colour as the status bar, so all i see is the shadow
15:29<Ammler>openttdcoop currency is pounds :P
15:31<planetmaker>ammler: yes? Hmm... I always thought currency was a local issue...
15:32<planetmaker>it is. the other currency symbols work.
15:32<Maedhros>(this is with no newgrfs at all, on r12052)
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15:34<planetmaker>I get the same w/o any newgrf
15:34<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12053 /branches/NewGRF_ports/ (177 files in 14 dirs): [NewGRF_ports] -Sync: with trunk r11949:12050.
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15:34<Ammler>planetmaker: didn't you see the smily?
15:35<planetmaker>sry. missed it :)
15:35-!-Yorick [] has quit [Quit: quitterdyquitquit hmm...Peter R. de Vries is showing how it really went with Nathalee Holloway right now :-)]
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15:36<Chrill>DJ Chrill @ TGS Radio | #TGS.Radio | Winamp: | WMP:
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15:38<planetmaker>anyplace to paste screenshot (sniplets)?
15:38<Maedhros>hmm. £ and ¥ still work, so it can't be just due to multi-byte problems
15:39<planetmaker>yes. $, too.
15:39<Maedhros>that's only a single-byte in utf-8 ;)
15:39<planetmaker>But unlike your scree shot, in the currency selection I still have currency (EUR) available.
15:40<planetmaker>but ingame it screws.
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15:58<Nesta>screenshot_format = savegame_format =
15:58<Nesta>is that line supposed to look like that?
16:00<Nesta>Is there a page some where that explains how this should look....
16:01<+glx>it should be 2 lines
16:02<Nesta>screenshot_format = savegame_format
16:02<Gonozal_VIII>savegame format is png :-)
16:02<Nesta>and rightclick_emulate = false
16:03<+glx>screenshot_format =
16:03<+glx>savegame_format =
16:03<+glx>rightclick_emulate = false
16:03<+glx>should be like that
16:03<Nesta>jpeg for screenshot?
16:04<+glx>keep the default value
16:04<Prof_Frink>Do what Gonozal_VIII said.
16:04<Nesta>There is no value... thats the problem
16:04<+glx>that's the default value :)
16:04<Nesta>there are a few that have no value
16:04<+glx>the game will do the right thing
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16:28<Nesta>I was redoing the config file and I just reran it and got this error up exit...
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16:29<Rubidium>Nesta: looks like you're missing a S
16:29<sHELL>._. kinda wondering, any way to add some more industry to OpenTTD?
16:29<sHELL>and not replacing the orginal ones :/
16:29<Chrill>There's the NewIndustries, but I am not sure if they work in OpenTTD..
16:30<Chrill> check this
16:30<Eddi|zuHause3>newindustries works in 0.6 but not in 0.5
16:31<sHELL>new industrie as in adding more of the same? (thats most of the hits I get in google)
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16:33<sHELL>more talking about, a new industry like having an extra suply chain... example, uranium mine >>> uranium enrichment >>> nuclear plant :P
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16:34<Gonozal_VIII>with lots of protestors and a train maximum speed of 5 km/h?
16:34<hylje>newind allows for more complex stuff than that
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16:37<sHELL>can I get a url to that... google keeps pushing me back to the "buy new industry" stuff :/
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17:12<Noldo>I didn't know there was such a recent rerelease
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17:13<SmatZ>no TTD in that package
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17:14<Noldo>ah sorry
17:15<Noldo>so this is the latest release
17:15<Gonozal_VIII>Minimum Age: 3 O_o
17:15<Gonozal_VIII>Fun Toyland world <-- hehehehe
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17:16<Gonozal_VIII>can't see a 3 year old playing ttd...
17:16*SmatZ cannot order from Amazon
17:16<Gonozal_VIII>in the "fun toyland world"
17:17<Gonozal_VIII>cannot order from amazon? why?
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17:18<SmatZ>Czech republic is not listed in "Countries Covered by Amazon Payments".... nor Austria as I can see
17:18<SmatZ>maybe I misundestand what it means
17:18<Gonozal_VIII>amazon works fine here
17:18<SmatZ>hmm so it should work here too :)
17:19<Gonozal_VIII>well... there's but no
17:20<SmatZ>"Marketplace" is probably that 'second-hand' store from Amazon
17:20<Noldo>Gonozal_VIII: well, there is nothing in the content that would make it not suitable for a 3 year old
17:21<Gonozal_VIII>it's not about the content... chess content is suitable for children too
17:21<Noldo>though I remember my 7 year old sister-in-law playing and she was mostly just blowing up stuff
17:26*SmatZ wonders why he gets "svn: No such revision 11934" when he tries to "svn up" in ttdpatch svn directory...
17:26<Noldo>eventually I had to ask here how to cheat for more money and people were giving me the "don't you wanna play fair" lecture :)
17:26<+glx>lol @ SmatZ
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17:26<Gonozal_VIII>wait a few decades^^
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17:43<Gonozal_VIII>every odd number is prime
17:43<Gonozal_VIII>1, 3, 5, 7.... see?
17:44<Rubidium>1 isn't a prime
17:44<Gonozal_VIII>well... it can be divided by 1 (and) itself...
17:45<Rubidium>it isn't a prime number by definition
17:45<fjb>Gonozal_VIII has less than nine fingers.
17:45<Gonozal_VIII>some exceptions are to be expected
17:46<Gonozal_VIII>but 11 and 13 works again, so 9 is no problem
17:49<Gonozal_VIII>i can read thoughts over irc...
17:50<Gonozal_VIII>think of any even prime number and i'll guess which one it is
17:50<Rubidium>using Gonozal_VIII's principles a Fibonacci sequence exists of only primes too
17:51<Gonozal_VIII>yep :-)
17:51<Gonozal_VIII>nobody cares about stupid 8
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17:56<Prof_Frink>Gonozal_VIII: `fortune` says:
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17:57<Gonozal_VIII>that's where i got it from^^
17:57<@peter1138>from me?
17:57<Gonozal_VIII>that's old
17:57<Rubidium>from chanserv ofcourse
18:00<fjb>That reminds me about a very religios guy. I asked him out of curiousity why he belives in god. He explained that all science is a lie, so only religion is true.
18:01<Prof_Frink>Gonozal_VIII: fortune also says
18:01<@peter1138>time is fleeting
18:01<fjb>He claimed that teaching science is bad, because science has proofs. But you can trust in no proof, so that is bad. Religion has no proofs because you just have to belive, that is a good thing.
18:02<Gonozal_VIII>makes a whole lot of sense^^
18:03<Rubidium>but then he proved his point, which makes it untrustworthy, i.e. bad
18:03<@peter1138>the days when he frequented his on fan group...
18:04<fjb>Yeah. We discussed a bit about that and the principles of proofs. But he claimed that all asumptions on which proofs are based are plain wrong. I saw no sense in further dicussing that and he didn't understand why. At least I think my questions was answered.
18:05<fjb>Don't discuss with religious people about religion. :-)
18:05<fjb>And don't ask them simple questions.
18:07<Gonozal_VIII>the less they know, the more they believe
18:07<SmatZ>the more they believe, the less they know
18:07<SmatZ>the other way around....
18:07<fjb>Yes, the is a principle of many religions, sadly.
18:07<fjb>That also.
18:08<Gonozal_VIII>like those idiots teaching creationism in schools
18:08<fjb>I didn't want to question his religion.
18:09*Rubidium ponders whether there are actually people that believe nothing
18:09<fjb>Yeah, he voted for creationism as an alternate view of the world.
18:10<fjb>I knew somebody who belived almost nothing. At least nothing that somebody (even close friends) told him. :-)
18:10<Gonozal_VIII>well... all unproven theories in science are believes too
18:10<Rubidium>fjb: but then he believed in that
18:10<SmatZ>but there are many indicies they are true
18:11<fjb>Rubidium: Yes, he believed in something. Almost nothing, but really not nothing.
18:11<SmatZ>like - well, somebody could say there are many indicies a God exists...
18:11<Gonozal_VIII>yeah... wouldn't believe stuff without any kind of indication that it could be that way...
18:13<fjb>SmatZ: Most people belive that because they were told when they were little kids. God may exist, but the chances are low.
18:13<Gonozal_VIII>there are things where science just doesn't work... like the question what was before the big bang or what's beyond the event horizon of a black hole...
18:15<SmatZ>Gonozal_VIII: yes, that's also what I don't understand - why is there anything instead of nothing? wouldn't it be simpler if there never was anything? no people, no Earth, no Sun, no Space at all
18:16<SmatZ>why is our space energetically cheaper than 'nothing' -
18:16<Gonozal_VIII>simpler and a lot more plausible... probability of an universe like ours where we can exist are low... but if it was otherwise, we couldn't think about why it is like it is^^
18:16<fjb>That would be simpler, not OpenTTD hacking, no discussions like this. But is that an indication of god? Maybe. Or is it just we not understanding it yet? Both is possible.
18:16<SmatZ>I think one day scientists will understand that - and I hope I will be alive that day :)
18:17<SmatZ>fjb: the other question, what was before the God? :-)
18:17*fjb thinks SmatZ is a Timelord.
18:17<fjb>SmatZ: I also had that tought.. Who made god?
18:18<Rubidium>god ofcourse
18:18<Rubidium>via recursion
18:19*SmatZ is afraid of possible Stack Overflow
18:19<Gonozal_VIII>my believe in that part would be that there were a lot of universes before ours started and there will be a lot more after that, almost all of them not suitable for life but we wouldn't have evolved in one of those
18:19<fjb>Rubidium: How big is the god stack?
18:19<Chrill>Patchman made love to orudge`, thus creating God
18:19<SmatZ>uh :-x
18:20<Chrill>Anyone here who can download two songs for me? I sort of can't find em thru the hub I have access to
18:20<SmatZ>Gonozal_VIII: maybe there were +inf universes before us with intelligent life, and there will be +inf after us
18:20<Gonozal_VIII>that's illegal chrill ;-)
18:20<fjb>Chrill: Try amazon.
18:21<Rubidium>try itunes
18:21<Gonozal_VIII>yes that too smatz
18:21<Chrill>but that's not for free
18:21<Chrill>and iTunes suck
18:21<Chrill>my computer can't handle it :(
18:21<Gonozal_VIII>and i'm sure there's other intelligent life in ours too
18:21<fjb>Nothing is for free.
18:21<Chrill>is too
18:21<SmatZ>downloading is legal here...
18:21<SmatZ>but I couldn't send it to you, because it is illegal
18:22<fjb>Gonozal_VIII: If it is really intelligent we will never get to know about it.
18:22<Chrill>why's everyone proper like orudge here? :(
18:22<fjb>Mr Proper?
18:22<fjb>Makes the kitchen clean.
18:22<SmatZ>make mrproper doesn't work in OTTD Makefile
18:22<Rubidium>primarily because the CIA is watching and relaying info to the RIAA?
18:22<Gonozal_VIII>distances are too big to ever meet others anyways
18:22*Chrill slaps CIA upside down with a forktruck
18:22<UnderBuilder>one question... is legal changing the firefox icon by the internet explorer one?
18:23<fjb>Gonozal_VIII: better for them.
18:23<Rubidium>SmatZ: make mrproper does work!
18:23<UnderBuilder>not creating one, selecting it from the icon list
18:23<SmatZ>Rubidium: yeah, sorry - make realclean doesn't work
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18:24<SmatZ>Gonozal_VIII: maybe... maybe there will be a way to do shortcuts in space - and maybe there are other civilisations watching us already
18:24<fjb>UnderBuilder: That depends on where you are living. Better ask a local lawyer.
18:24<UnderBuilder>I want to camuflate my firefox as IE
18:25<UnderBuilder>here suitments by piracy are strange thing (Argentina)
18:25<UnderBuilder>(i'm talking about the Chrill thing)
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18:28<Serval>aww, no easly link XD
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18:29<fjb>Strange guy.
18:29<Sacro>superbowl 42!
18:30<Chrill>UnderBuilder, it's legal to DL but not to share, I think, here
18:30<fjb>Chrill: Where are you living?
18:31<fjb>SWE? That is no ISO country code.
18:34<fjb>That is part of the EU. I would not asume that sharing copyrighted thinks is allowed there. I may be wrong, but better ask a lawyer first.
18:34<Chrill>why's everyone so boringly legal
18:35<fjb>Chrill: We don't care if the police takes your computer away. But we care if they take ours.
18:35<Chrill>And they monitor OFTC to take someone sending a single song, oh yes
18:35<Chrill>nobody's ever busted for file sharing damnit
18:36<+glx>happened here
18:36<fjb>Not busted, but you can easily lose your computer equipment that way.
18:36<Chrill>oh noes, CIA's gunna eat me up
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18:36<ln->01:21 < Chrill> but that's not for free <-- why would you need to get your songs free?
18:36*Chrill is arrested
18:36<fjb>Chrill: Why don't you do illegal things by yourself?
18:36<ln->Chrill: would you like to work for free, too?
18:36-!-peter1138 [~petern@] has quit [Quit: bwaaahahaha, te eeeh eeehee boingk!]
18:37<Chrill>Soz guys, gotta go to the station, i got arrested
18:37-!-Chrill [] has quit [Quit: Weee Waaa Weee Waaa Wee Police r comings to get mee]
18:37<SmatZ>ln-: because you pay fees for recording companies by every empty CD, HDD, DVD,... you buy in a shop?
18:37<fjb>Stupid guy.
18:37<Gonozal_VIII>most of the money for cds never reaches the artists
18:38<SmatZ>I have the right to download music/movies, because I pay much more in these fees than the music/movies I download is worth
18:38<ln->SmatZ: i don't pay, i doubt he pays either.
18:38<SmatZ>Gonozal_VIII: nor the price you pay in shop
18:38<fjb>If they would never get him for doing illegal things, they get him because he is asking in open chanels...
18:38<+glx>SmatZ: but you can't upload :)
18:38<Rubidium>Gonozal_VIII: s/most/none/;s/never /
18:38<Gonozal_VIII>that's what i was talking about smatz
18:38<SmatZ>glx: yeah...
18:39<SmatZ>but somebody has to, so I can download
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18:40<fjb>Asking people "Can you do illegal things for me for free?" is still stupid.
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20:16<fjb>Hm, please no een longer long vehicles...
20:19<Gonozal_VIII>nobody wrote anything?
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20:20*fjb read the forum.
20:20*glx is watching superbowl
20:20*fjb doesn't care for superbowl.
20:21<Gonozal_VIII>me neither
20:22<Gonozal_VIII>i don't care for any sports on tv but even less for stuff like american football or baseball
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20:34<Gonozal_VIII>"Please George do not make LV5s shorter." <-- i don't agree with that.. if the scale doesn't fit into the boxes, the scale should be changed, not the box size
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20:36<Gonozal_VIII>i wouldn't mind different scales even within the same set
20:36<ln->a Tron?
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20:45<fjb>Yes, TTD has no scale, but LV4 vehicles already look out of place.
20:45<Gonozal_VIII>that's what i mean
20:46<Gonozal_VIII>he should use a smaller scale
20:46<Gonozal_VIII>and maybe different scale for early and new vehicles
20:46<fjb>It is harder to draw the vehicles then but the railway set designers are showing what you can do with that few pixels.
20:48<fjb>Long vehicle are too long, grvts are looking too simple.
20:49<Gonozal_VIII>well they are supposed to be simple
20:49<Gonozal_VIII>like the originals
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20:50<fjb>They don't even have tires.
20:50<fjb>And you can sometimes not tell which gerneration a vehicle is.
20:51<Cavalier92>Hey gang - newbie here with a perplexing issue i cant find covered in the forums
20:51<Cavalier92>all of the available vehicals are greyed out - even after i set the year to somewhere in the middle
20:51<fjb>Feel free to ask.
20:51<Cavalier92>any help on this one?
20:51<Gonozal_VIII>greyed out?
20:52<Cavalier92>the box is grey - no vehicles are available for purchare
20:52<Cavalier92>they are therein the list
20:52<Cavalier92>but cant be bought
20:52<Gonozal_VIII>you mean the autoreplace window?
20:52<fjb>Where do you try to buy them?
20:52<Gonozal_VIII>grey vehicles on the left side?
20:52<Cavalier92>in in the new road vehicles box
20:53<Gonozal_VIII>in a depot?
20:53<Cavalier92>im running openttd 0.5.3 with my origial TTD files off the CD
20:53<Gonozal_VIII>they can only be bought inside a depot
20:53<Cavalier92>that's it
20:53<Cavalier92>it's bneen too many eayrs
20:54<fjb>Did you read the manual?
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20:54<Cavalier92>fjb - yeha many years back - i guess i need to re-read
20:54<Cavalier92>thanks all for your help - its a great product
20:54<fjb>That would help.
20:55<Gonozal_VIII>i never read any manual^^
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20:57*fjb neither.
20:57<fjb>But reading the manual helps if you can't get something to work.
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21:01<Gonozal_VIII>or you could just scream and cry and hit your face onto the wall until the problem goes away
21:01-!-orudge` [~orudge@] has quit [Quit: zzz]
21:01<fjb>Or the wall does.
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21:18*fjb votes for road / railroad crossings in tunnels. There is a light at the end of the tunnel...
21:18*Gonozal_VIII votes for anything inside tunnels
21:20<fjb>But crossings would be most fun. :-)
21:20<Gonozal_VIII>underground explosions?^^
21:21<fjb>Maybe it would be more safe. You see the trains earlier.
21:21<fjb>At least the light of the train.
21:21<Gonozal_VIII>not if the tunnel is lit all the time...
21:22<Gonozal_VIII>most tunnels have light :-)
21:22<fjb>But railroad tunnels are usually not lit.
21:23<Gonozal_VIII>crossing has to be for the rvs
21:23<fjb>Don't lit the whole tunnel.
21:23<Gonozal_VIII>you can't see around the corner from the road tunnel..
21:24<fjb>Use mirrors like at some road crossings.
21:24<Gonozal_VIII>hmm yes...
21:25<fjb>And if somebody doesn't see the mirror you have fun. :-)
21:25<Gonozal_VIII>rvs never look ahead :-)
21:27<fjb>They should not look ahead, they should look to the side...
21:28<Gonozal_VIII>i guess the problem is not with the rvs but with the trains.... don't turn the crossings read early enough
21:28<fjb>Half a tile in front of the crossing.
21:30<Gonozal_VIII>so when a train is a half tile away, rvs can still enter... they have to travel a full tile while the train travels a half
21:30<Gonozal_VIII>full tile + length
21:38<fjb>Good night.
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21:57<SmatZ>there is 'Tunnel crossing' cheat :)
21:58<Gonozal_VIII>well yes... but that sucks^^
21:58<Gonozal_VIII>cheating is bad
21:59<Gonozal_VIII>would only make sense for longer tunnels and they can ruin the network because of the signal distance
22:05*sHELL votes for tubetransport after maglev
22:06<Gonozal_VIII>after maglev? kind of misplaced... tubes have been around much longer
22:06<Eddi|zuHause2>so, who had bet for who to win, and who was right?
22:06<Gonozal_VIII>or you mean tubes like in futurama?
22:07<Gonozal_VIII>not tubes like what they call the london subway...
22:08<sHELL>see if I can find a picture of it
22:09<sHELL>ah yes
22:09<Gonozal_VIII>they wanted to build something like that in germany, called something like cargo cab
22:10<sHELL>yeah, the got the same idea here in rotterdam
22:10<Gonozal_VIII>quite slow small vehicles inside underground tubes
22:11<sHELL>the idea that I herd, it will be realy fast
22:11<Gonozal_VIII>something like 30 km/h
22:11<Gonozal_VIII>faster than average truck speed in that area
22:11<sHELL>hehe true
22:12<sHELL>ah well, there working on those special bus lanes first
22:12<Gonozal_VIII>special bus?
22:12<sHELL>yeah, still in development
22:13<Gonozal_VIII>what's so special about it?
22:13<sHELL>its a line from the west to north of holland
22:13<sHELL>special buslane
22:13<Tefad>in the US there are HOV lanes
22:14<sHELL>from what I read the busses will go at an avarage speed of 150km/h
22:14<Tefad>uh, wow
22:14<sHELL>the keep bitching that maglev is to expensive :/
22:14<Gonozal_VIII>that's a nice speed... but why busses and not trains?
22:14<Gonozal_VIII>well, maglev IS too expensive
22:14<sHELL>design error back in the 1930's :/
22:15<Gonozal_VIII>you can go 300 with conventional rails and that's much cheaper
22:15<sHELL>the dyke connecting holland with the north of the netherlands can't support train rail
22:15<De_ghosty>noooooooooo the 450 passanger dormont tram is gone111
22:16<sHELL>the TGV is to expensive as well..
22:17<sHELL>the talys is way to expensive :/
22:18<sHELL>here in holland the call it the furcoat line -_-
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22:18<sHELL>altho, imho the train is the future
22:19<sHELL>used the shinkansen in japan alot... got I love that transportation system
22:20<Gonozal_VIII>our normal train engines are able to go 350 km/h :-)
22:20<Eddi|zuHause2>hm... why do i have a load of 9 when almost nothing is running?
22:21<Gonozal_VIII>waggons and rails are not made for that
22:21<Eddi|zuHause2>9 ~ 900%
22:21<sHELL>hmmm yeah, I did notice that most of the shinkansen only top 300
22:21<Gonozal_VIII>how's 900% possible?
22:22<Eddi|zuHause2>means on average, 9 processes want to access the same ressources
22:23<Eddi|zuHause2>> uptime
22:23<Eddi|zuHause2> 4:23am an 8 Tage 6:56, 7 Benutzer, Durchschnittslast: 9,49, 7,03, 5,88
22:23<sHELL>uptime... mwhe
22:23<sHELL>bed time :D
22:23<Gonozal_VIII>7 users?
22:23-!-sHELL [] has quit []
22:23<Eddi|zuHause2>x server and 6 open shells?
22:23<Gonozal_VIII>close them :-)
22:25<Eddi|zuHause2>well, it might be about the fact that i switched to the open source graphics driver
22:26<Gonozal_VIII>sooo driver doesn't work too well with your hardware?
22:27<Eddi|zuHause2>it might not do as much hardware acceleration during video playback (TV)
22:28<Gonozal_VIII>i have a tv smiley :D
22:29<Eddi|zuHause2>haha ;)
22:31<Gonozal_VIII>(bttf) a delorean :D
22:33*Sacro accelerates Gonozal_VIII to 88mph
22:33*Gonozal_VIII jumps through time
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---Logclosed Mon Feb 04 00:00:12 2008