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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-02-08

---Logopened Fri Feb 08 00:00:40 2008
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02:24<LordAzamath>I just read an interesting news... TGV recieved an update :P AGV..
02:26<DJ-Nekk|d>i did read something similar, but way shorter in norweegian a few days agl...
02:26<DJ-Nekk|d>plus some on BBC-online
02:26<DJ-Nekk|d>it will come out ca 2011
02:26<Gonozal_VIII>i don't understand that
02:27<LordAzamath>Gonozal_VIII: Basically... Faster train, more capacity, same cost
02:27<Gonozal_VIII>no, i can understand that...
02:27<Gonozal_VIII>but not norwegian
02:27<LordAzamath>I know few words of Norwegian..
02:28<Gonozal_VIII>i know even fewer
02:28<LordAzamath>Utgang is exit and ingang is entrance :D
02:28<LordAzamath>I was in Norway erm. two years ago..
02:29<Gonozal_VIII>you probably read that ingang on a german sign where the E fell off
02:29<Gonozal_VIII>it's eingang in german
02:29<LordAzamath>nope.. it was in Oslo
02:29<LordAzamath>I visited Norway two years ago
02:30<DJ-Nekk|d>urc :)
02:31<Gonozal_VIII>does any of you play with daylength patch?
02:31<DJ-Nekk|d>when i played with miniin or chrisin i did...
02:32<Gonozal_VIII>because i made a modification today to enable daily and weekly autosave :-)
02:33<DJ-Nekk|d>that is actually smart...
02:33<DJ-Nekk|d>i remember i played with a factor of 15 or 30 once, and the game crashed at day 26 or something
02:33<DJ-Nekk|d>efficiently killing 10 minutes or so of building
02:34<Gonozal_VIII>a lot can happen in a month with daylength 30
02:34<Forked>Gonozal_VIII: I do, and I saw :) what was the v-> something-> bug though? never seen it
02:34<DJ-Nekk|d>Gonozal_VIII: exact,y
02:35<Gonozal_VIII>vehicle wasn't passed as a pointer anymore or something like that... v changed to this
02:38<DJ-Nekk|d>Btw, Ingang and Utgang is correct LordAzamath/Gonozal_VIII
02:39<@peter1138>LordAzamath, "news" from May 2000?
02:40<@peter1138>The URL you posted.
02:40<LordAzamath>well.. I read a new new in Estonian..
02:40<LordAzamath>and then googled for AGV so I could post a link
02:41<LordAzamath>if you really want
02:42<Gonozal_VIII>keep your olds :P
02:43<LordAzamath>the first sentence means that The world's fastest train, moving in standard gauge, was presented this week in France with Nicholas Sarkozy's participation.... or something like that
02:43<Gonozal_VIII>the trains we use have a top speed of 357 km/h
02:44<LordAzamath>Kümme aastat kestnud arendustegevuse ühe etapina testiti möödunud aastal rongi mootoreid ja saavutati tavaraudteel liikuvate rongide kiirusrekord 574,8 kilomeetrit tunnis.
02:44<LordAzamath>This means 574,8 km/h is top speed
02:44<LordAzamath>but only during testing
02:44<LordAzamath>It'll not going to run this fast
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02:47<Gonozal_VIII>nice train
02:48<Gonozal_VIII>and i read that the energy consumption of a conventional highspeed train is about the same as a maglev train with same speed
02:49<Gonozal_VIII>therefore it doesn't make sense to build maglev tracks, except if you build them in low pressure/vacuum tubes
02:50<Gonozal_VIII>and i think that will replace most air traffic some day
02:51<@peter1138>Aircraft will be clean when they implement flight-path catenary...
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02:52<Gonozal_VIII>now that's a strange idea, where did you get that from?
02:52<@peter1138>Just now.
02:52<Forked>Gonozal_VIII: just shout if you need a new win32 binary hosted
02:53<Gonozal_VIII>at least i hope...
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02:53<Gonozal_VIII>depends on if the modifications i made work
02:54<Gonozal_VIII>stupid sh crashing all the time
02:55<Gonozal_VIII>the new version already works but lots of people want paxdest so i'll include paxdest
02:55<LordAzamath>Gonozal_VIII: Will your diff then be something like.... GonozalIN? ^^
02:55<Gonozal_VIII>eddi wrote Gonozal_VIIIIN^^
02:56<Gonozal_VIII>poking around in the code, not knowig what most of it does...
02:56<Gonozal_VIII>that's fun^^
02:58<LordAzamath>I should probably do something useful... but I'm a bit tired of drawing/coding atm.. :(
02:58<Gonozal_VIII>but your grf stuff got a lot better since you started
02:59<LordAzamath>coding skills?
03:00<Gonozal_VIII>coding i don't know
03:00<LordAzamath>actually, I think no for coding.. I mean I have only used the simplest actions :D
03:01<LordAzamath>ActionA, Action7, Action10, ActionD, Action8 and sometimes Action4
03:01<@peter1138>And all the interesting stuff happens in Action2
03:01<Gonozal_VIII>see.. i don't even know what action d or 4 are
03:02<LordAzamath>D is for defining default parameters and 4 is for renaming stuf
03:02<LordAzamath>peter1138: All the difficult part is in Action2 too
03:02<Gonozal_VIII>and i would never touch a action 2... they are scary
03:02<LordAzamath>especially var Action2
03:02<LordAzamath>so I agree with Gonozal :P
03:03<Gonozal_VIII>they jump around like mad and check for the weirdest things...
03:05<Gonozal_VIII>the openttd code is at least readable^^
03:07<LordAzamath>well.. commented nfo is readable too
03:08<LordAzamath>but not the one you get from decoding
03:10<LordAzamath> is either down, or very slow...
03:13<LordAzamath>does anyone know where is the standalone specs located? or mirrored? The one which is linked in specs page?
03:13<LordAzamath>ttdpatch wiki, I mean
03:15<Gonozal_VIII>aaaand compiling again...
03:16<Gonozal_VIII>that's the good thing about grfs, they compile fast
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03:23<Forked>irc at work!? :p
03:23<ln-_>what? who?
03:23<Forked>DJ-Nekkid I'm guessing (oh and I might be guilty of that too)
03:25<Forked>I work at my ISP .. I thought I was suppose to .. urh .. use the internet .. it's educational.. right? :)
03:25<ln-_>oh, wait, actually i'm also at work at the moment, and on irc.
03:25<Forked>I don't even irc.. I just ssh
03:28<Gonozal_VIII>it works!!
03:29<Gonozal_VIII>i made a new tab in the configure patches menu :-)
03:29<DJ-Nekkid>Forked: what is my host now?
03:29<Forked>DJ-Nekkid: grps-blablabla.telenor
03:29<Forked>therefor I guessed "at work" :)
03:30<DJ-Nekkid>yup ...
03:30<DJ-Nekkid>laptop in service-car :)
03:30<DJ-Nekkid>sitting outside Aspø atm ... gonna troubleshoot one of your ... clients?
03:30<Forked>I'm at the hq.. behind locked doors (leveranseavdelinga)
03:30<DJ-Nekkid> 32105461 in case you were wondering :)
03:31<Forked>the customer is deaf (is that spelled right?) .. can't hear a thing
03:31<DJ-Nekkid>btw guys, his HQ is at the 4th and 5th floor, and in the 1st floor is one of our city's pubs ... and it's among the top5 seller of beer :)
03:31<DJ-Nekkid>isn't it death? ;)
03:32<Forked>pretty sure it's not ;)
03:32<DJ-Nekkid>close enouhg
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03:33<Forked>I'm waiting for vdsl2.. mmm
03:33<DJ-Nekkid>me2 :)
03:34<DJ-Nekkid>2+' aint fast enough any more
03:34<Forked>not with my distance and shitty cabling :\ .. probably more around 40-50Mbit down (650M, alot of it is 0,4mm)
03:34<DJ-Nekkid>well, what im actually is waiting on is "open beta" on your cable tv via dsl
03:34<DJ-Nekkid>im at 1700m so ...
03:35<Forked>vdsl2 is pointless over 1000m afaik
03:36<Forked>also tv signals are overrated.. one does not need such things :)
03:36<DJ-Nekkid>tPB 4tw?
03:39<DJ-Nekkid>can you check if you can see that client btw? so i dont have to call Svein?
03:39<Forked>I don't use nor like tpb :)
03:40<Forked>port is down
03:41<@peter1138>First floor pub? How bizarre.
03:41<Forked>enhet 453
03:41<Forked>peter1138: ground floor
03:41<@peter1138>Pubs should be in their own building, not with floors above...
03:41<DJ-Nekkid>i always confuse thoose floors
03:42<DJ-Nekkid>*get confused*
03:42<DJ-Nekkid>my god my english suck sometimes
03:43<Gonozal_VIII>in english first floor and ground floor is the same... in german the first floor is the one above the ground floor
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03:44<@peter1138>No, in English first floor is also above the ground floor.
03:44<LordAzamath>Gonozal_VIII: peter is right
03:44<@peter1138>It's the Americans who have it all wrong.
03:44<Gonozal_VIII>aaah cool
03:44<LordAzamath>and below ground floor is basement
03:45<@peter1138>08:44. Work at 09:00.
03:45<Gonozal_VIII>americans also don't have a 13th floor and strange things like that
03:45<@peter1138>I should finish getting dressed :o
03:45<Forked>I hate this day already
03:45<ln-_>choose a nice dress
03:46-!-LordAzamath is now known as LA[feeling_ill]
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03:50<Gonozal_VIII>if nothing goes wrong now, i'll only have to compile one more time and then i know all updated and merged patchs work and i can upload :-)
03:51<DJ-Nekkid>Gonozal_VIIIIN ?
03:52<Gonozal_VIII>hehe, yes
03:52<Forked>Gonozal_VIII: say when =p
03:52<DJ-Nekkid>Forked: his patch on that server of yours?
03:53<Gonozal_VIII>huh czech.txt doesn't want to be patched :S
03:53<Forked>DJ-Nekkid: what server of mine? web or ttd?
03:53<DJ-Nekkid>that ttd one you talked about the other day
03:54<Forked>oh, no.. not atm.. but havne't really played the last week .. except for some testing pbs yesterday
03:54<Forked>I could always put one up though later
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03:55<Forked>I expect there is a new patch collection coming any minute now :p
03:55<DJ-Nekkid>im not playing too much on fridays ... wife-time
03:55<DJ-Nekkid>and im also trying to figure out how to use the callbacks...
03:55<Forked>friend of gf might be coming over today.. I heard some talk of "hair dye" then tuned out
03:55<DJ-Nekkid>hehe, no shit sherlock :)
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04:04<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm strange characters in czech.txt are broken
04:04<Gonozal_VIII>probably my fault
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04:06<LA[feeling_ill]>Gonozal_VIII: ofcourse your fault
04:06<LA[feeling_ill]>everything is your fault ;P
04:11<Gonozal_VIII>aaaaand compiling
04:13<Gonozal_VIII>i've compiled like 100 times today...
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04:16<Gonozal_VIII>shouldn't you be at work now peter?
04:17<DJ-Nekkid>he prolly is :)
04:17<DJ-Nekkid>i am :)
04:17<Gonozal_VIII>and very productive ;-)
04:17<Gonozal_VIII>oh, compile finished
04:18<Forked>DJ-Nekkid: did you get that lady up and running? :p
04:18<DJ-Nekkid>i started at 0830, now it's 10:17, and ive fixed 2 connections already
04:18<DJ-Nekkid>she was wrong connected in the central
04:18<LA[feeling_ill]>ttdpatch wiki is STILL down :(
04:18<DJ-Nekkid>(to the old DSLAM/ISP, not to yours)
04:18<DJ-Nekkid>LA[feeling_ill]: i have a zip of that page...
04:18<DJ-Nekkid>if u want it
04:19<@peter1138>Gonozal_VIII, yes, I am.
04:19<Gonozal_VIII>it works :-)
04:20<Forked>DJ-Nekkid: ah
04:20<LA[feeling_ill]>DJ-Nekkid: I want :D
04:21<DJ-Nekkid>im DCC'ing
04:21<DJ-Nekkid>if it works (doubtfull)
04:22<LA[feeling_ill]>am I supposed to get some popup window with agree to download? :D
04:22<LA[feeling_ill]>didin't get any
04:23<DJ-Nekkid>add my msn...
04:24<@peter1138>So, are you a DJ, and are you naked?
04:24<DJ-Nekkid>yes and no :)
04:24<Forked>DJ-Nekkid: oh and yep, port is up now :) about 16Mbit
04:24<DJ-Nekkid>i know, svein told me on msn :)
04:24<Forked>he forgot to log it
04:25*peter1138 puts on some ELP.
04:26<Tefad>extremely large penises?
04:26-!-LA[feeling_ill] [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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04:26<@peter1138>Err, no.
04:27<DJ-Nekkid>extended long play
04:27<DJ-Nekkid>aka EP :O)
04:27<Tefad>what about SP?
04:27<@peter1138>Emeerson, Lake & Palmer...
04:27<DJ-Nekkid>single play?
04:27<Tefad>VHS terms?
04:27<@peter1138>DRM taken to extremes ;)
04:28<Tefad>SP LP E(L)P
04:28<@peter1138>Short play.
04:28<Tefad>i've only heard RPMs in coorelation with vinyl
04:31<@peter1138>LP = 12", EP = 10", Single = 7"? or something
04:33<DJ-Nekkid>both EP and LP is 12"
04:34<Gonozal_VIII>yay new version
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04:35<Gonozal_VIII>could you please host a new binary forked? :-)
04:38*peter1138 is listening to: Emerson, Lake & Palmer - Emerson, Lake & Palmer - Take A Pebble - (10:08/12:31)
04:39<@peter1138>Yay, SPAM!
04:39<Gonozal_VIII>oh noes mp3 script
04:40<@peter1138>Ooh, my audioscrobbler plugin is working again.
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04:41*LordAzamath is listening to Moby - Dream about me (Hotel)... this kind of spam?
04:41*DJ-Nekkid is listening to Nrk Petre - Filmplaneten
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04:44<DJ-Nekkid>no ffs....
04:44<DJ-Nekkid>it's Filmpolitiet
04:44<@peter1138>I have no equalizer
04:44<@peter1138>Silly rhythmbox...
04:45*LordAzamath is listening to "Positiivsed tulnukad" by "Chalice" on "Taevas ja perse"
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04:45-!-Gonozal_VIII is now known as Guest798
04:45-!-asgdgdg is now known as Gonozal_VIII
04:46*peter1138 is listening to: Emerson, Lake & Palmer - Emerson, Lake & Palmer - The Three Fates; i) Clotho (Royal Festival Hall Organ) ii) Lachesis (Piano Solo) iii) Atropos (Piano Trio) - (0:09/7:43)
04:47*LordAzamath is listening to "Charango" by "Morcheeba" on "Charango"
04:47<@peter1138>What! There's no Royal Festival Hall Organ in that :/
04:48<LordAzamath>hmm.. I think that's why we have the "Whatcha listening @ da moment" thread for
04:48<@peter1138>Forum threads suck
04:48<Forked>Gonozal_VIII: compiling
04:50<Gonozal_VIII>i hope it works
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04:53*LordAzamath is listening to "Undress me now" by "Morcheeba" on "Charango"
04:55<LordAzamath>hehe, now I added kopete function to do this automatically :D
04:55<LordAzamath>Now listening to:Get Along by Morcheeba on Charango
04:55<LordAzamath>wonder, if it does it twice...
04:55<Gonozal_VIII>does it work forked?
04:56*peter1138 points at #openttd.spam
04:57<Forked>Gonozal_VIII: trying to do some actual work here.. and it's juist done compiling
04:57<Forked>wont testrun it :
04:57<Gonozal_VIII>hehe, work
04:57<@peter1138>Actual... work...?
04:57<Forked>what should I name the .rar file?
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04:58<Forked>long_filename_r12083.patch.rar ?
04:58<Gonozal_VIII>without the patch...
04:58<Gonozal_VIII>i think
04:58<Gonozal_VIII>but doesn't matter
04:59<Gonozal_VIII>yay thanks
05:00<Forked>I am really looking forward to vdsl2 .. maybe I get some 10-20Mbit upload
05:00<Gonozal_VIII>what's vdsl2?
05:00<Forked> <- there.. if you wnat to update your post :)
05:01<Forked>vdsl2 is .. a fairly new DSL technology.. that gives greater speed on >1000M long lines
05:01<DJ-Nekkid>Forked: ETA of that for Ålesund sentral?
05:01<Forked>DJ-Nekkid: I'm pretty sure I can't comment on that to the outside.. sorry :\
05:01<DJ-Nekkid>pm then :)
05:02<Forked>but I'm on ÅL .. so you might see when we start testing for real :p
05:03<Forked>but like I said.. less than 1000M .. or else it turns into adsl2+
05:03<DJ-Nekkid>i wanna be in that test-group :)
05:03<DJ-Nekkid>nah! hehe
05:03<DJ-Nekkid>i want one!
05:04<Forked>2+ or worse, I think
05:04<Forked>only read about it
05:04*Forked curses kapaks
05:05<DJ-Nekkid>im sure it will be better then that!
05:05<DJ-Nekkid>kapaks sux!
05:05<DJ-Nekkid>and the ADSL-ppl in telenor use it as their bible
05:05<DJ-Nekkid>"but kapas say they can have x speed"
05:05<DJ-Nekkid>and i say "but they cant!"
05:05<Forked>"ledig linje" .. well let me use it then
05:05*Forked curses jara a bit too
05:06<Forked>anyway ..
05:07<Forked>Gonozal_VIII: update your win32 binary link :)
05:07<DJ-Nekkid>but i suppose at my line it will surpass the 15mbit i currently have
05:08<Gonozal_VIII>i would need a new link for that :-)
05:08<@peter1138>Lies. If it was digital you wouldn't need modems...
05:08<DJ-Nekkid>100 Mbit/s at 0.5 km (1640 ft) and 50 Mbit/s at 1 km (3280 ft), but degrades at a much slower rate from there, and still outperforms VDSL. Starting from 1.6 km (1 mile) its performance is equal to ADSL2+.
05:09<DJ-Nekkid>what would you hook it into then?
05:09<DJ-Nekkid>the lan-port?
05:09<Forked>DJ-Nekkid: 100Mbit ethernet?
05:09<LordAzamath>is now listening to: "At the River" by "Groove Armada" on "The Best of"
05:09<keyweed>the achieved quality depends on the length of the copper phone line and the quality of it. other factors like interference may also slow you down
05:10<DJ-Nekkid>keyweed: i know ...
05:10<DJ-Nekkid>i work as a telecom installer
05:10<keyweed>whatever your ISP sais .. they cannot change the laws of physics
05:10<keyweed>i work as a perl coder for a Dutch ISP :)
05:10<Forked>this why I'm hoping for 40-50Mbit at my 0.65km
05:11<DJ-Nekkid>keyweed: i also know that, and i struggle with one of the ISPs ppl saying "but t
05:11<Forked>for some reason I get top speed out .. (1199kbps) .. hardly anyone gets that on dsl2 .. even on supposedly better cables
05:11<DJ-Nekkid>"byt my books say you can get a <set> line"
05:11<keyweed>i don't know my speed yet. haven't bothered connecting a new modem
05:11<DJ-Nekkid>and i say "no you cant, there is too much <factors> here"
05:12<DJ-Nekkid>Forked: i get close-to-top-speed at mine ... 1080kbps
05:12<keyweed>customers who think the laws of physics are adjustable. we have those too
05:12*peter1138 finds his 8M/400K adequate
05:12<Forked>DJ-Nekkid: I bet you did replaced parts of it with better cables ;\
05:13<keyweed>i've got a 20/1 line but my current modem can't do that.
05:13<keyweed>i don't care much about speed. i care about reliability
05:14<DJ-Nekkid>keyweed: indeed
05:14<DJ-Nekkid>as much speed as possible for highest possible reliability :)
05:14<keyweed>but this fast line is free. staying on the slower one would have cost me money...
05:14<keyweed>strange place this world.
05:14<Forked>the dslam and modem are generally quite good at finding a good speed vs good reliance .. at least on my connection
05:15<DJ-Nekkid>Forked: not on mine ...
05:15<DJ-Nekkid>i had to adjust it slightly down...
05:15<DJ-Nekkid>or, Svein did
05:15<Forked>I get close to 19000kbps down .. and 1199 up
05:15<DJ-Nekkid>i can get 16,4 or something
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05:15<DJ-Nekkid>slightly unstable
05:15<DJ-Nekkid>and he did set it to 16, and works like a charm
05:15<DJ-Nekkid>check port 1040
05:15*madis[LA] is back with ChatZilla
05:16-!-LordAzamath [] has left #openttd [Kopete 0.12.5 :]
05:16<Forked>not now, got to get this one done before lunch :)
05:16<DJ-Nekkid>well, when you feel like it :)
05:17<DJ-Nekkid>or if :)
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05:18<DJ-Nekkid>*afk, work*
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05:18<Gonozal_VIII>i think now is a good time to get some sleep
05:18<@peter1138>Reboot to windows time :o
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05:19<Gonozal_VIII> *spamspam*
05:20*madis[LA] /kick Gonozal_VIII "No spam here"
05:21<Gonozal_VIII>good night :-)
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05:36<Eddi|zuHause2><LordAzamath> is either down, or very slow... <- there is usually "wiki2" as backup
05:36<madis[LA]>thanks :D
05:36<madis[LA]>is it possible to separate Action0A from realsprites with eg action10?
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05:37<Eddi|zuHause2>i have no idea ;)
05:37<madis[LA]>so I could have action07 skip only headers, but not sprites...
05:39<@peter1138>What are you trying to achieve?
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06:47<madis[LA]>ok.. now a small part of things are done :D
06:47<madis[LA]>of my plan
06:49<madis[LA]>what do you guys think should I make a grf which help you to set up eyecandy dig depots.. something like in this mockup
06:50<@peter1138>write it as a feature so that they're actually real ;)
06:52<@peter1138>was my english complicated?
06:52<madis[LA]>it didn't make sense
06:52<madis[LA]>to me
06:53<@peter1138>how so?
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06:53<madis[LA]>what are actually real?
06:53<@peter1138>the big depots...
06:54<@peter1138>the vehicles sitting in them...
06:54<@peter1138>the shunting yards...
06:54<Digitalfox>madis[LA]: Peter means " Code a feature that allow wagons to be on track without engine " ;)
06:54<madis[LA]>or make the engine transparent
06:54<@peter1138>and shunted around
06:54<madis[LA]>it's actually a screenshot
06:54<madis[LA]>not a mockup :D
06:54<Digitalfox>Unless the newgrf God *Hint* has already created that code
06:55<madis[LA]>and there is only one train in each track
06:55<@peter1138>Digitalfox: no, i don't think Belugas has done it
06:55<@peter1138>madis[LA]: hence it is not real
06:55<Digitalfox>Maybe he has ;) buahahaha
06:55<@peter1138>i didn't mean real as in screenshot vs mockup
06:56<madis[LA]>but until newgrf GOD has done something, why not use this solution?
06:57<@peter1138>i don't see what it has to do with newgrf, heh
06:57<madis[LA]>me neither
06:57<madis[LA]>but Digitalfox mentioned it
06:57<@peter1138>so make a very slow transparent engine, heh
06:57<@peter1138>so bored people can pretend
06:57<madis[LA]>and transparent wagons too
06:57<@peter1138>that is unnecessary
06:57<madis[LA]>3/8 lenght
06:57<madis[LA]>so you can add whatever gap in there
06:58<@peter1138>oh, i suppose
06:58<madis[LA]>but only for toyland
06:58<@peter1138>make the engine refittable
06:58<madis[LA]>because it's WIP
06:58<Digitalfox>No sense of humor.. :(
06:58<@peter1138>dunno if that can change its length
06:58<@peter1138>i want real shunting :D
06:58<madis[LA]>engines can't
06:58<@peter1138>engines can't what?
06:59<madis[LA]>change lenght
06:59<madis[LA]>only wagons
06:59<@peter1138>why not?
06:59<@peter1138>engines certainly can have different lengths
07:00<madis[LA]>This property does not work for the first vehicle in a train (i.e. the engine).
07:00<@peter1138>that's bollocks
07:00<madis[LA]>from wiki
07:00<@peter1138>ukrs has used shorter engines since... well, years ago.
07:00<@peter1138>yes, i can read
07:01<@peter1138>never trust 'facts' in a wiki :p
07:01<@peter1138>Sacro: MORE PBS SERVERS!
07:01*peter1138 ponders doing his
07:01<Forked>hmm I could do that..
07:02<Sacro>peter1138: go on then D:
07:02<Sacro>with UKRS
07:02<Sacro>and blackjack
07:02<Sacro>and hookers
07:02<Forked>infact.. forget the UKRS and the blackjack
07:03*peter1138 is compiling
07:03<@peter1138>no, don't forget UKRS
07:04<@peter1138>gah, my chosen server is slow :(
07:06<@peter1138>Sacro: have you played with it on a server yet?
07:06<@peter1138>gah, still compiling :o
07:07<Sacro>peter1138: indeed i have, co-op server has one
07:08<@peter1138>so they have
07:08<@peter1138>hmm, i don't have a windows build :p
07:10<Sacro>peter1138: there's one bck on the forums
07:10<@peter1138>12072 it seems
07:11<@peter1138>it is r12072 not r12062
07:12<@peter1138>ah well, i can't play now anyway
07:12<@peter1138>but i'll leave it on
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08:09*peter1138 waits for 2003r2 to install.
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08:47<fjb>Hm, I found a workaround for the problem that the trains don't go into the depot with YAPP. Building the depots in non PBS sections helps.
08:50<Tekky>I think the best solution may be to disable automatic depot servicing in PBS areas and require trains to use go to depot orders for servicing in PBS areas.
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08:51<fjb>The trains don't follow the order to go into the depot for service. They go into the depot, but not only for service but always.
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08:52<Vikthor>Tekky, I agree, but that would cause insane amount of "bug" reports regardless of how much you will advertise it :D
08:53<@peter1138>can the train be told check if it needs to go to a depot before reserving a path...?
08:53<Noldo>why not?
08:54<Noldo>when is it checked now?
08:54<fjb>peter1138: That sounds like the solution if it is possible.
08:54<Tekky>fjb: are you using the order "service in depot" or "go to depot"?
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08:55<fjb>Tekky: I used "service in depot". It always reserved the path to the depot then, not only when it needs service.
08:56<Tekky>oh, then it's a bug.... just a moment, let me check whether that happens in my game.
08:56<Sacro>hey Tekky
08:56<fjb>It happens with v2 and v3
08:57<Tekky>hi Sacro :)
08:57*Sacro is in a rather boring lecture
08:57<fjb>Forcing a train into the depot (with the depot button in the train status window) makes the train bypass the depot, go to the station, reverse there and go back to the depot.
08:59<madis[LA]>arggh.. I'm stuck. how do I define for an engine that it doesn't have capacity?
08:59<DaleStan>Set the capacity to zero?
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09:00<madis[LA]>yes I thought that too
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09:02<@peter1138>that coop is funny
09:02<@peter1138>they've completely missed the point on how to use the signals
09:03<Sacro>oh fsck
09:03<Sacro>got to move
09:03<madis[LA]>but I hthink I'm getting blind, because I can't find anything about capacity in action0Trains... only refittable cargo classes and 1D, but these are for refitting
09:03<hylje>these new fancy scwancy pbs signals?
09:03<madis[LA]>ok.. 14 - cargo capacity ^^
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09:04<Tekky>fjb: I cannot confirm that "service in depot" doesn't work. It works just as intended with me. However, it is possible that a train doesn't need servicing when it first encounnters the "service in depot" order and therefore skips it. But a few seconds later, when it actually passes near the depot, it decides that it needs servicing and tries to get to the depot anyway, which fails.
09:04<fjb>peter1138: coop people are often doing funny things. Where did they miss how to use the signals?
09:06<fjb>Tekky: That is strange. I alway see the trains passing the depot (and a going to depot message shows a very short time at the bottom of the vehicle status window).
09:06<Tekky>fjb: yes, that sounds to me like a failed attempt of automatic depot servicing.
09:07<fjb>Tekky: How far are your signals apart at your line?
09:07<Tekky>that has nothing to do with the "go to depot" or "service at depot" order.
09:07<Tekky>6 tiles
09:08<fjb>Tekky: With the service at depot order the train always visits the depot in my game.
09:08<@peter1138>fjb: they still use "exit block" signals
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09:08<@peter1138>they still place signals every other tile
09:09<fjb>peter1138: That are bad habits. I didn't like that style even without PBS. But I think I have seen the screenshot that you were talking about. And I also wondered.
09:10<Tekky>with PBS, it is now much more meaningful to increase capacity by offering several tracks to use. There is no need to increase capacity by placing a signal on every square anymore.
09:11<fjb>peter1138: But it is always not easy to change the habbits one is used to.
09:11<Tekky>you should have not more than one signal per train length in the new PBS system.
09:12<fjb>It looked always awful to have signals on every tile.
09:12<hylje>plus signals every other tile means bridges and other gaps need to have themselves doubled
09:12<hylje>to compensate
09:13<fjb>And it prevented trains from reversing to solve a lock.
09:13<Ammller>fjb: there is about 5 years experience in it
09:14<@peter1138>at least the platforms don't have entry signals, i suppose
09:14<fjb>Ammller: Yes, it is. Very specialized for a very specialized style.
09:14<Ammller>for high traffic
09:15<fjb>High traffic with very short trains and only old industries and flat land.
09:16<hylje>short being..?
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09:18<fjb>up to 6 or 7 tiles. Most are about 5 tiles long.
09:18<@peter1138>Sacro, play bitch :p
09:18*Sacro is back in the same lecture
09:18<Sacro>but a different theater
09:18<@peter1138>boo :(
09:18<@peter1138>i setup a server for you
09:18<@peter1138>and you repay me by being in a lecture!
09:18<Sacro>well i am supposed to be listening to... err...
09:18<Sacro>Software Engineering and Human Computer Interaction
09:19<Sacro>but instead I am playing Peggle
09:19<Sacro>doy ou have windows binaries available?
09:19<Ammller>fjb: tell me a kind of train/map compination we didn't make...
09:19<@peter1138>thought you already had them :o
09:21<fjb>Ammller: I cann only tell from your screen shots. But you layout is not the best for new industries that don't have an endless high output.
09:22<Sacro>peter1138: on my desktop at home
09:22<Sacro>i'm on the laptop at uni
09:22<Sacro>what rev?
09:22<Ammller>fjb: coop games are not specialized
09:22<Ammller>we like to try everything someone suggest
09:22<fjb>Tekky: Now I got the service at depot order working at one line. I have to investigate that problem deeper.
09:23<Ammller>if you like build something "big" just join and tell us
09:23<Sacro>i only have 12072
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09:23<fjb>Ammller: You have very precise style rules. How do you try new styles then?
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09:24<Ammller>rules are just for public server
09:24<Ammller>but you can change them, if you like or need
09:25<Ammller>(not on the wiki :-)
09:25<Ammller>(for your kind of game, you like to play)
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09:27<fjb>Ammller: I don't want you to change your style. But I still think it is a very specialized style. Play with industries with low output, like PBI.
09:27<Ammller>we DON'T have a special style
09:28<Ammller>that rules are just to help new players, how to build and to make it coopish
09:28<fjb>Ammller: But all your screen shots show the same style with slight variations.
09:29<fjb>Building coopish isn't a style?
09:29<Ammller>hmm, one style is given: "big"
09:29<Ammller>and because of that, it looks mostly the same for "outsiders"
09:30*Belugas listens to sigur Ros. Anything that is available on his system
09:30*Sacro wants to do something interesting
09:30<Ammller>fjb: of course it isn't
09:30<Ammller>its not a building style
09:31<Eddi|zuHause2>,%209.%20Mai%201977.png <- i take suggestions on how to properly PBS that station...
09:31<Ammller>its just a "howto", how to play together and its far away from perfect.
09:32<fjb>Ammller: Try another kind of big, not many short trains, try it with long trains (really long traing, 20 tiles and more) and fewer signals and fewer tracks per line. That is also big, but very different from your approach.
09:32<Mark>fjb, we have
09:32<Ammller>just shortly
09:33<Ammller>Mark: do you have the archive link?
09:33<Mark>one sec
09:33<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause2: start by placing PBS signals on the exit of stations
09:33<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause2: simple :)
09:33<Sacro>and then adding 1 way PBS signals on the approaches
09:33<Ammller>fjb: but of course with signals on every 2.
09:33<Sacro>well, that is if you want 2 way platforms
09:34<fjb>Mark: Ok, I just never saw a screenshot of that. All the coop srceen shots always look almost like the same. Diffent town names, different landscapes, but you cann tell it is a coop game by the first view.
09:34<Ammller>of course, nice networks are mostly from there
09:34<Tekky>Eddi: remove all normal signals, put a two-way single PBS signal facing the platform in front of every platform, on both sides. Upgrade all pre-signals to one-way single PBS signals. Finished!
09:34<@peter1138>my dual-core 5600+ is not enough for that coop game :o
09:34<Tekky>peter1138: dual cores are useless in OpenTTD, I think :)
09:35<Sacro>Tekky: no, facing *away* from the platform
09:35<@peter1138>Tekky: it's still 2.8 GHz ;)
09:35*Sacro doesn't want to go through this agin :*
09:35<Sacro>lso, dual core halfs compile times
09:35<Ammller>fjb: no 2x45 and most realistic station entries :P
09:35*peter1138 is going to play on his server by himself, or something
09:36<Eddi|zuHause2>Tekky: that's not "proper" ;)
09:36<Tekky>Eddi: why?
09:37<Tekky>Eddi: You want one platform to stay one-way?
09:38<Tekky>Eddi: Ok, then make one of the platform signals one-way instead of two-way to prevent entry from one side.
09:38<Eddi|zuHause2>both the northern and the southern station entrance have crossing that are unavoidable because of the old signal system, that doesn't allow proper twoway platforms
09:39<Eddi|zuHause2>with PBS, these can be done much more efficient, by keeping the entrances LRLR
09:39<Eddi|zuHause2>instead of mixing them to LLRR
09:40<Eddi|zuHause2>but at that point, you need to make sure that exiting trains can reach all exit lines
09:40<Tekky>oh, sorry, were you talking about PBS'ing Gbf or Hbf? I was talking about Gbf :)
09:40<Eddi|zuHause2>Sacro: Güterbahnhof, Hauptbahnhof
09:40<Tekky>there are two stations on Eddi's screenshot.
09:40<Eddi|zuHause2>Tekky: i mean the entire station ;)
09:40<Sacro>i get train station
09:40<Sacro>but not the prefix
09:40<Sacro>:utf8 on
09:41<Eddi|zuHause2>Güter == Goods
09:41<Tekky>Eddi: entire station = both stations?
09:41<Eddi|zuHause2>Haupt == Main
09:41<Eddi|zuHause2>Tekky: yes, either all or nothing ;)
09:41<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause2: can you repeat goods
09:41<Sacro>testing utf8
09:41<Tekky>I would translate Güterbahnhof = freight station
09:41<Sacro>i has umlauts
09:41<Eddi|zuHause2>HAHA ;)
09:42<keyweed>ᛄᛅᛍᛘᛙᛛᛞᛝ !
09:42<Eddi|zuHause2>yes, i agree ;)
09:44<fjb>Tekky: Here is the problem. That train has service at depot orders, but it choses to go to the depot even it was services one month ago and the way through the depot is longer:
09:45<@peter1138>so it's reserving the path to the next order even though it's not going to stop there
09:46<Sacro>those graphics are awesome
09:46<fjb>peter1138: Yes, but other trains are only goint to the depot when they need service. Could it be a problem that this train uses a single track line while the other lines are dual track (one per direction)?
09:46<Sacro>what grfs are in use fjb ?
09:47<fjb>Sacro: Just TTRS and Georges ECS vectors (beta 4).
09:47<madis[LA]>so... I just came to this page Last time I had seen it Belugas said it's updated almost frequently...
09:47<fjb>Sacro: Trains are DBset XL and the catanary is dutch catanary (they are using the same as in Germany).
09:48<madis[LA]>but for example there are some things /rivers, additional coast/ which are said no
09:48<madis[LA]>even tram tracks
09:48<madis[LA]>But, I dare not update it :P
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09:48<madis[LA]>so some dev.. who knows exactly what is he doing :D
09:48<madis[LA]>could do it
09:49<Sacro>fjb: any trin set but ukrs confuses me
09:49*Sacro doesn't get german sets
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09:49<Sacro>dutch catenary is nice though
09:50<fjb>Sacro: Use what you like. I also used UKRS.
09:51<fjb>Sacro: Here is the grf list:
09:51<@Belugas>when I do stuff, i do update it, madis[LA]. But i'm not responsible to update stuff done by other devs...
09:52<madis[LA]>Belugas! :D
09:53<madis[LA]>but yes.. just the thing is that no-one else updates it
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09:53<madis[LA]>so still some things get outdated
09:53<Sacro>fjb: thanks
09:54*hylje outdashes madis[LA]
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09:56<@peter1138>madis[LA]: feel free to update it. other people have not been stopped by posting bollocks before...
09:57<madis[LA]>peter1138: how do I know for sure, am I right?
09:57<@Belugas>looking at the sources is the only way
09:58<madis[LA]>so it's very helpful, that I can't understand c++?
09:58<Sacro>this guy is talking rubbish
09:58<madis[LA]>Sacro: me?
09:59-!-madis[LA] is now known as LordAzamath
10:00<frosch123>LordAzamath: start with newgrf_callbacks.h, there are a lot "// not implemented". I assume they are up to date.
10:01<Sacro>LordAzamath: no
10:01<Sacro>this "lecturer"
10:01*Sacro yawns
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10:02<Sacro>time to depart
10:02*Sacro reserves a path
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10:02*Sacro disappears over the block
10:02*hylje crashes with Sacro
10:02<Sacro>damn bug
10:02*Sacro fleees
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10:04<+glx>frosch123: comments are usually up to date for callbacks ;)
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10:05<hylje>how quickly can lonely locomotives accelerate in general?
10:05<hylje>IRL, that is :>
10:05<@peter1138>ottd's acceleration model sucks :D
10:05<hylje>realistic acceleration more so?
10:06<LordAzamath>erm... no, glx. Look at 0x37... Source says it's not implemented wiki says it's supported :D
10:06<Yorick>peter1138: does everything suck?
10:06<@peter1138>Yorick: you probably do
10:06<+glx>LordAzamath: wiki is wrong then :)
10:07<+glx>I just checked and it's not implemented
10:07<LordAzamath>which leads to our recent discussion about Yorick being a bot.. So peter1138, you are right, it is a thing
10:07<LordAzamath>!Yorick this year..
10:08<LordAzamath>slow bot
10:09<LordAzamath>!yorick say "/me is a bot"
10:09*Yorick is a human
10:09<Eddi|zuHause2> <hylje> how quickly can lonely locomotives accelerate in general? <- not fast, they have huge power, but few friction to use for tractive effort
10:12<Eddi|zuHause2>i mean, you can easily beat a 6000hp engine with a 60hp car
10:13<@peter1138>NOT IN OTTD!
10:17<@Belugas>LordAzamath, you are therefor allowed to remove cb37 from supported wiki grf stuff
10:19<dih>peter - what do you think of that pbs stuff
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10:27<ernestower>I need help: What is the error 4?
10:27-!-keyweed_ [] has joined #openttd
10:28<@Belugas>the one before 5 and after 3
10:28-!-pm|away [] has joined #openttd
10:28<+glx>looks like a network error
10:28<@Belugas>like... waht don't you give us a bit of a context first ? :P
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10:28<dih>it only sais error 4? nothing else?
10:29<dih>yes - running away solves problems
10:29<dih>hey enestower, are you femail by any chnace
10:29<Yorick>[16:29] *** ernestower ( left ()
10:29<dih>[16:29] <dih> yes - running away solves problems
10:30<dih>those lines were more for the channels amusement
10:30<dih>but i am doubting you understood that
10:30<+glx>he's a bot ;)
10:33<dih>a young one :-)
10:34-!-keyweed [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:35<CIA-5>OpenTTD: frosch * r12084 /trunk/src/ (engine.cpp engine.h): -Fix: 'Early retirement'-properties are signed.
10:37*Yorick analyzes discussion about "he"
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10:51<fjb>Tekky: The service at depot order is working when the dapot is in a PBS block with one prefered way:
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10:53<fjb>But why doesn't the trail take the track straight ahead is another mystery...
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10:56*peter1138 tries a release build on the openttdcoop server
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11:10<LordAzamath>is it possible to have separate views in _ and buy vehicle window? for trains?
11:11<LordAzamath>good :)
11:12<LordAzamath>but that's not all I want to know
11:12<Prof_Frink>Forty two.
11:12<frosch123>Action 3 cargo id 0xFF IIRC
11:13<LordAzamath>Prof_Frink: nope.. that was answer for the third question
11:13<LordAzamath>frosch123: going to check that out
11:13<bananafly_>LordAzamath, what IS that question anyway
11:14<Prof_Frink>LordAzamath: African or european?
11:14*LordAzamath got confuzed
11:15<bananafly_>The swallow, is it african or european?
11:15-!-helb [~helb@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:15<bananafly_>Never seen Monty python's quest for the holy grail?
11:15<LordAzamath>I haven't watched all of them
11:15<bananafly_>:o indeed
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11:16<Prof_Frink>Bring me... a shrubbery!
11:16<bananafly_>Prof_Frink: Are you saying NI to that old woman?
11:18<@Belugas>confusion makes this a big confused channel
11:18<@Belugas>said Confucius
11:18<LordAzamath>Kon Fuzi
11:20<Prof_Frink>Confucius say too much.
11:21<@Belugas>and not enough too.
11:22<Prof_Frink>Confusedus say train waiting at signal is in rear of signal.
11:23*Belugas says "Walk to the fridge, pick up a beer and bring it"
11:23-!-XeryusTC [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:24*Prof_Frink says "Reach down and to your right, pick up a beer"
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11:26<CIA-5>OpenTTD: frosch * r12085 /trunk/src/ (npf.cpp npf.h roadveh_cmd.cpp ship_cmd.cpp train_cmd.cpp): -Fix(r12058): Road vehicles could get stuck, when NPF told them to reverse on junction tiles. (spotted by SmatZ)
11:26*Belugas thanks Prof_Frink and pat him on the head
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11:28<DJ-Nekkid>anyone who can help with callbacks? (.nfo/grf)
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11:30<frosch123>don't ask if someone can answer if you would ask.
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11:37*Belugas nods at frosch123 :)
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11:38<planetmaker>DJ-Nekkid: yes. But I don't know who ;D
11:38<LordAzamath>what's with the wiki?
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11:39<LordAzamath>seems weird...
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11:39<LordAzamath>like.... a little bit blank
11:40<+glx>just incomplete
11:43*Belugas updated the bridges part
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11:45<DJ-Nekkid>frosch123: well ... i cant make it work it seems ...
11:45<DJ-Nekkid>*were slight afk*
11:45-!-Greyscale is now known as Greysc[a]le
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11:47<@Belugas>and more parts...
11:47<frosch123>I assume you have already used nforenum and grf2html to check your code...
11:47<DJ-Nekkid>nforenum i always use
11:48<frosch123>Which callback do you want to use?
11:49<DJ-Nekkid>mainly 11 12 and 15 iirc
11:49<DJ-Nekkid>wagon length, capacity and load ammount
11:49<DJ-Nekkid>and eventually 1D as well (can wagon be attached)
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11:57<CIA-5>OpenTTD: glx * r12086 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_commons.cpp newgrf_commons.h): -Fix [FS#1747] (r11425): check overrides only for industries when mapping newgrf entities to 'real' entities
11:58<LordAzamath>ok.. now THAT is weird... FF doesn't load openttd wiki, konqueror does
11:59<LordAzamath>actually, FF can connect it, even I could get the source of the wiki apge, but it doesn't display it
11:59<LordAzamath>but anyway, since DJ-Nekkid already started to ask questions, I'll ask too :)
11:59<planetmaker>LordAzamath: I've no problem with the wiki
12:02<LordAzamath> //!!Fatal Error (42): Length does not match n-id and num-cid of 01 and 01. (Expected 10 bytes)
12:02<LordAzamath> 16 * 8 03 00 01 71 01 FF 02 00
12:02<LordAzamath>//!!For feature 0 the following cargoIDs have not been used since their most recent definition:
12:02<LordAzamath>//!!01 (last defined at sprite 15)
12:03<LordAzamath>Can't understand what's wrong there... n-id is set to 01 and I refer to only one id (71).. and then num-cid is 01.. CargoID is ff so it is in purchase window, then it refers to previously defined action02 id 02.. and then the default-cid...
12:03<LordAzamath>I'm trying to add separate sprites for buy vehicle window...
12:03<DJ-Nekkid>i see the problem actually
12:03<@peter1138>action 2 ids are words
12:03<DJ-Nekkid>-1 * 0 03 00 01 48 01 FF A0 00 AC 00
12:03<LordAzamath>so in the end is 02 00 00 00
12:04<DJ-Nekkid>03 00 01 71 01 ff 02 00 <default id> 00
12:04<LordAzamath>default is 00 currently
12:04<DJ-Nekkid>then that would be correct :)
12:04<LordAzamath>I defined it earlier :P
12:05<LordAzamath>renum doesn't complain :D
12:05<DJ-Nekkid>renum is dumb :)
12:06<DJ-Nekkid>but as a sidenote, i find it easier to make sets and whatever when not useing the 00-range for cids
12:09<Prof_Frink>< CIA-2> flocati * r772402 <-- You guys have got a fair way to go...
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12:10<@Belugas>depends... maybe they are doing a lot mo re bugs then us :P
12:14<DJ-Nekkid>LordAzamath: for example: i use A0 as purchase window sprite, and A1+n for Engine sprites, B1+n for pax wagon sprite(s) C1+n for Mail
12:14<DJ-Nekkid>or whatever
12:15<DJ-Nekkid>makes code much more readable
12:16<LordAzamath>but atm I'm just testing my coding skill limits :D
12:16<LordAzamath>which means a new grf soon too
12:17<DJ-Nekkid>LordAzamath: actually lower then mine ? :)
12:17<DJ-Nekkid>or perhaps about the same :)
12:17<LordAzamath>DJ-Nekkid: possible
12:18<DJ-Nekkid>guess when i can debug some1 im actually not that bad
12:18<LordAzamath>I'm no expert, but I can do some stuff
12:18<DJ-Nekkid>same here...
12:18<DJ-Nekkid>soon-(tm)-to-be-expert ;)
12:19<Prof_Frink>Belugas: It's more a case of being a bigger project
12:19<LordAzamath>DJ-Nekkid: The case you were able to debug my code happened, because I had a bug. I had a bug, because I haven't done that thing before...
12:20<@Belugas>granted, Prof_Frink
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12:20<Prof_Frink>That was a commit to Dragon Player.
12:20<Prof_Frink>Which is in the KDE svn.
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12:22<DJ-Nekkid>LordAzamath: me either, and i had the same bug just 3-4 days ago :)
12:22<LordAzamath>and actually peter1138 fixed my bug :P
12:23<LordAzamath>because you stated you saw the problem
12:23<LordAzamath>but he helped faster :D
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12:26<LordAzamath>hmm.. is there any special reason why it shows the sprite in purchase window but not in depot as icon when I have bought it?
12:28<Eddi|zuHause2>after you bought it it shows the regular - sprite
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12:31<LordAzamath>Eddi|zuHause2: Is there any way to change this?
12:31<Eddi|zuHause2>i don't think so...
12:32<LordAzamath>because if there isn't then my last three hours are.... a little bit wasted
12:32<LordAzamath>I hoped it'll do rhe same for both windows...
12:33<@peter1138>hmm, vista crashed :o
12:33<|Jeroen|>thats quite normal
12:33<|Jeroen|>its a feature
12:39<@peter1138>blue screen of stop error 0x0000007F :o
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12:42*Prof_Frink panics peter1138
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12:52<LordAzamath>how can it be that nforenum doesn't say a word about the code and ttdpatch says it has invalid sprite 7...
12:53<CIA-5>OpenTTD: glx * r12087 /trunk/src/ (settings_gui.cpp tree_cmd.cpp): -Fix: MSVC warnings
12:53<DJ-Nekkid>LordAzamath: as for the earlier comment; he had the proper language, i didnt :)
12:54<LordAzamath>and about my problem... I guess it's the fault of running it through wine...
12:54<LordAzamath>because now suddenly it didn't complain
12:54<DJ-Nekkid>and btw; i saied i saw the problem at the exact same second :)
12:54<DJ-Nekkid>and i took me another 9 to give you the example :)
13:00<UnderBuilder>one question... how do I keep up the ratings for two bus stations away one from each other?
13:01<UnderBuilder>in a competition server, I get ratings ~25% and I don't get passengers
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13:02<LordAzamath>can anyone point out what does this mean? ( Dalestan ?)
13:02<LordAzamath># Eyecandy empty engine
13:02<LordAzamath># 4D413032
13:02<LordAzamath># Eyecandy empty engine for depots. By LordAzamath.
13:02<LordAzamath># Faulty A:80 F:00
13:02<LordAzamath># �File "newgrf/empty.grf" has invalid sprite #7 (code 6/16).
13:03<LordAzamath>sprite 7 is like this:
13:03<LordAzamath> 7 * 32 00 00 0b 01 71
13:03<LordAzamath> 09 14 00
13:03<LordAzamath> 0B 64 00
13:03<LordAzamath> 12 FD
13:03<LordAzamath> 05 02
13:03<LordAzamath> 2a 51 B3 0A 00
13:03<LordAzamath> 06 07
13:03<LordAzamath> 17 02
13:03<LordAzamath> 22 40
13:03<LordAzamath> 21 05
13:03<LordAzamath> 14 00
13:03<LordAzamath> 16 01
13:03<LordAzamath>Ammller: this is so tiny piece of code...
13:04<Ammller>netiquette sais 3 lines, imo. :)
13:04<Wolf01>not so tiny, i can't see it all on my view
13:04<LordAzamath>Wolf01: ok.. sorrt
13:04<Ammller>Wolf01: mobile phone? :P
13:05<Wolf01>no, too many chat windows
13:06<LordAzamath>but anyway, regarding my problem: this is what the ttdpatch says.. grf works fine in openttd
13:07<LordAzamath>and sprite 7 is duplicate sprite 8 only difference is that vehID is other and railtype is other...
13:07<LordAzamath>and it doesn't complain about sprite 8
13:07<LordAzamath>nor 9
13:07<LordAzamath>renum doesn't say anything
13:12<LordAzamath>ok.. I added the full code to openttdpaste...
13:13<DaleStan>LordAzamath: code 6 is invalid property, I believe. (
13:13<LordAzamath>why doesn't renum complain?
13:13<DaleStan>I'm guessing your version of TTDPatch is too old to know about prop 2A.
13:14<+glx>what version are you using?
13:14<LordAzamath>2.5 beta9
13:14<+glx>that explains ;)
13:14<+glx>use nightlies
13:15<LordAzamath>got it here:P
13:15<DaleStan>IMO, the 2.5 branch should support the long intro dates, but I dunno if it actually does, and beta 9 definitely predates them.
13:15<DaleStan>What glx said. Use the nightlies.
13:16<LordAzamath>yes.. I'm trying to find the correct page now..
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13:17<UnderBuilder>one question... how do I keep up the ratings for two bus stations away one from each other?
13:17<UnderBuilder>in a competition server, I get ratings ~25% and I don't get passengers
13:17<LordAzamath>r1825 is good?
13:18<+glx>it is the latest
13:20<LordAzamath>hmm :(... doesn't seem to run through wine...
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13:23<+glx>LordAzamath: that's ok
13:23<LordAzamath>I can't run it
13:23<LordAzamath>it terminates instantly
13:23<+glx>it should ask you to press y to continue
13:24<LordAzamath>I even cant say y/n there
13:25<LordAzamath>is all I get
13:26<+glx>DaleStan: <-- I needed to do this to compile grfcodec with mingw/msys
13:26<LordAzamath>but I can deal with patch later.. Main thing is that grf works :)
13:27<+glx>I don't know how wine works
13:32<LordAzamath>well I could start it before with older version...
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13:42<@peter1138>pommeh, teh, pommeh
13:43<hylje>peter1138 is testing his new drum set for lamers
13:46-!-stillunknown [] has joined #openttd
13:46<Prof_Frink>I want a drum kit with lasers
13:47<Gonozal_VIII>in the future, everything has lasers
13:48<Prof_Frink>No, not everything
13:48<Prof_Frink>It'd be awkward to have to carry a shark tank around with you.
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13:53<@Belugas>i'd like to have a tank big enouh for a shark near by...
13:53<@Belugas>i could use it a lot ^_^
13:53<Gonozal_VIII>to put snow in?
13:54<Tefad>the sharks will have laser eyes
13:54<Gonozal_VIII>lasers will have lasers built in
13:56*Belugas throws all the snow in his garden onto Gonozal_VIII
13:57<LordAzamath>Gonozal_VIII: In the future, there will be robots ^^
13:58*LordAzamath ... GTA:VC
13:58<LordAzamath>but as usual, I quite spammily advertize some of my creations :)
13:59<Gonozal_VIII>invisible engine?
14:01<@peter1138>Now code it properly ;p
14:01<Gonozal_VIII>i thought i had every important patch covered... now they want timetable seperation
14:02<@peter1138>Or at least use refitting, cargo subtypes and the vehicle length callback...
14:03<LordAzamath>peter1138: I have coded it whole today
14:04<LordAzamath>it's eyecandy
14:04<LordAzamath>what do you think is not properly there?
14:04<LordAzamath>Gonozal_VIII: Yes, invisible
14:06<@peter1138>Bah, why is my avahi not working :o
14:07<Noldo>bah, my son just won't sleep :/
14:07*Belugas knows the feeling and sympathizes with Noldo
14:07-!-yorick [] has joined #openttd
14:08<@Belugas>and if you want to know, it took my own son about a year and a half before he made its full first night :(
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14:09<Noldo>waking up only once a night would be wondeful start ;)
14:12<Eddi|zuHause2>take Gonozal_VIII as babysitter ;)
14:13<LordAzamath>take Gonozal_VIII as another baby
14:13<Gonozal_VIII>neither :P
14:13<Prof_Frink>take Gonozal_VIII up the arse?
14:14<@Belugas>how old is he, Noldo?
14:14<LordAzamath>Gonozal_VIII was about 23 IIRC
14:14<Gonozal_VIII>wtf how do you know that
14:15<Noldo>Belugas: three weeks tomorrow
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14:17<LordAzamath>Gonozal_VIII: You certainly not did not tell me this about a month/two ago in this same IRC channel :P
14:17<Gonozal_VIII>you can remember stuff that long :O
14:18<yorick>I can too
14:18<LordAzamath>I can still remember some stuff I did when I was 3-year old :D
14:18*LordAzamath is 4 years ole
14:18*LordAzamath old*
14:19<yorick>I remember stuff from when I couldn't talk
14:19<yorick> was quite frustrating being picked up and moved against your will
14:19<LordAzamath>ermm.... ok but that's logical too, you're bot, you've got logs somewhere ^^
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14:20<Gonozal_VIII>and now you let the waves pick you up and move you against your will? you've come so far :P
14:21*LordAzamath is going to increase his postcount @ offtopic
14:22<Gonozal_VIII>as usual
14:22<LordAzamath>I'll get to 5th page on number of posts after three more posts
14:22<yorick>my postcount was at 2421 yesterday
14:22<yorick>the stats only get generated every night...
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14:22<LordAzamath>actually, I haven't posted to offtopic for eons
14:22<Gonozal_VIII>and i think you're the only one who cares^^
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14:24<yorick>I don't want to have a random quote :( (and if I do get one, I want this one to be it :-))
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14:42<@peter1138>Gah, stinging eyes :o
14:43<yorick>who are you talking to?
14:45<Gonozal_VIII>to the laser eye sharks
14:46<yorick>I think its to the stinging-eye fish
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14:49<@peter1138>Dozens of DJs
14:49<@peter1138>Didn't The Smiths write a song about that?
14:49<@peter1138># Hang the DJ, hang the DJ, hang the DJ... Hang. The. DJ...
14:49<Gonozal_VIII>another update^^
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14:50<@peter1138>Mmm, tea...
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14:53<@Belugas>Tea in the Sahara
14:53<@Belugas>With YOuooo
14:55<Gonozal_VIII>who broke belugas?
14:56<yorick>you did
14:56<Gonozal_VIII>did not!
14:56<yorick>who broke the autoreplace in MP?
14:57<@Belugas>Police - Tea in Sahara... ignorants!
14:58<CIA-5>OpenTTD: smatz * r12088 /trunk/src/openttd.cpp: -Fix: assert when loading savegame with wrong tiletype at south map borders
14:59<yorick>make something to fix what caused the assertion failure and then execute the assertion instead of just failing ;)
14:59<@peter1138>. . .
14:59<yorick>i.e. fix the wrong tiletype at south map borders instead of just crashing/giving error about it
15:00<@peter1138>"There's a problem, never mind, just randomly change it to something else" ?
15:00<SmatZ>yorick: asserts are to show we are in invalid state, not to try to fix it automatically and mess things up even more
15:00<Gonozal_VIII>that way you can't find out what caused the wront tiletype in the first place
15:01<yorick>hmm...can't I compile without npf?
15:02*peter1138 ponders gui/map clicking interaction
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15:03<hylje>integrated minimap!
15:03<hylje>think the world map
15:03<hylje>but in a smaller scale mostly without extra data
15:04<Gonozal_VIII>i know what you mean but why do you write that now? is there a patch?
15:04<SmatZ>like zoom-out 1x, 2x, 4x, 8x, then minimap, right?
15:04<Wolf01>if i understood well, i tried to do something related to it: the fast gui, you click on a tile and some widgets appear around, floating, which you can click to start building something on that tile
15:04<LordAzamath>would be nice :)
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15:05<Gonozal_VIII>if you zoom out far enough, the main window changes to minimap... yep
15:05<Wolf01>a feature required mainly for handheld devices, where the gui takes too many space
15:06<Wolf01>so you keep the pen pressed on the tile and the gui popups
15:06<Prof_Frink>For handhelds you ideally want a tabbed UI
15:06<Wolf01>no, for handheld a gui is not an option
15:06<Wolf01>like toolbars
15:07<Wolf01>maybe the options/patches one
15:07<Prof_Frink>instead of showing the minimap in a window, the "map" button would switch the whole screen to map view
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15:07<Gonozal_VIII>stupid bots
15:09-!-Guest837 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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15:10<Gonozal_VIII>see.. all female nicks on irc are bots
15:10<Prof_Frink>random idea: marker flags
15:11<Gonozal_VIII>marker flags?
15:11<Prof_Frink>Place on a tile, when it's off the screen, you get an arrow showing the direction and distance to the flag
15:11<Prof_Frink>would be useful for building long-distance tracks
15:11<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm that could be added to signs
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15:12<yorick>I want a scrollto option: type in a name, after pressing 's', press return, and it will find the name from signlist or town names or station names :)
15:13<Gonozal_VIII>opening the list and clicking is faster than typing?^^
15:14<yorick>it isn't
15:14<yorick>having to find a town or a sign can be very complicated
15:14<Wolf01>but without a keyboard...
15:14<Prof_Frink>especially for terminal junkies
15:14<yorick>you can just use the mouse, wolf01
15:14<Prof_Frink>Wolf01: most people play on devices with a keyboard
15:14<Wolf01>to type?
15:14<Gonozal_VIII>you know the jump to file feature in winamp? 'j' ?
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15:15<Prof_Frink>wotcha slartibartfast
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15:16*yorick has 2 sh's open on windows
15:21<LordAzamath>don't forget to add feedback to ^^
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15:21<Wolf01>anybody knows if there is a web browser which run with cygwin and supports user authentication?
15:22<Prof_Frink>"user authentication"?
15:23<Wolf01>protected pages
15:23<yorick>I don't know about any webbrowser which runs with cygwin
15:23<yorick>why do you need one?
15:23<yorick>maybe Konqueror will do
15:23<+glx>good question :)
15:24<Wolf01>my router only has http interface
15:24<Wolf01>with ssh?
15:24<+glx>why ssh if it only has http?
15:24<Wolf01>that's why i asked :)
15:25<yorick>why do you need a webbroser with ssh over cygwin that supports user authentication?
15:25<Wolf01>because i can use my server remotely with ssh
15:25<yorick>putty has ssh too
15:25<planetmaker>or for copying use winscp ^^
15:26<Wolf01>i tried with links but it doesn't support authentication, it shows directly "this page has protected content"
15:27<Wolf01>so i need always to use vnc, but it has a password too, and i don't remember it :P
15:27<Prof_Frink>Wolf01: links2?
15:28<Wolf01>not available for cygwin
15:28<Prof_Frink>"get a real os for your server"?
15:29<Wolf01>i'll put ubuntu server or slackware when i'll have time
15:29<yorick>you have to pay real money for windows :)
15:29<Gonozal_VIII>do people really buy windows?
15:30<Gonozal_VIII>they just use it if it comes with their pcs, right?
15:30<yorick>and they try to make it as much linuxy as possible
15:30<yorick>at least, I do :-P
15:30<Gonozal_VIII>i mean... i can't imagine walking into a shop and buying windows...
15:31<yorick>YODM3d as window manager :-)
15:31<planetmaker>well... at our university all members are free to use windows on all of their computers, also their private ones. So technically, I didn't buy it, but it also didn't come with my PC...
15:31<Gonozal_VIII>they would all laugh at you and point fingers at you...
15:31<Prof_Frink>Gonozal_VIII: Not if you went to pissy werld
15:31<Prof_Frink>Then we would point and laugh at you double,
15:33*yorick has successfully patched openttd with paxdest, truckdriver security, YAPP, daylenght
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15:33<yorick>and set daylenght to 1 minute
15:33<Gonozal_VIII>aaand disconnect again..
15:33<yorick>stop disconnecting!
15:34<Prof_Frink>OK, who's eaten my DNS?
15:34<Sacro>peter1138: do you have a grf pack for your server?
15:34<planetmaker>what is truckdiver security?!
15:34<yorick>I know
15:35<yorick>but I managed to find out about it when compiling
15:35<yorick>truckdriver security=closing lvlcrossings as soon as a train reserves them using PBS
15:35<Gonozal_VIII>yes i want that, where's that?
15:35<planetmaker>ah... THAT is nice :)
15:36<yorick>Gonozal_VIII: its in my head
15:36<yorick>I must have it somewhere
15:37<Gonozal_VIII>hmm can you make a patch out of it? then i'll include it
15:37<yorick>its a patch for a patch :O
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15:37<Gonozal_VIII>then i'll include it in the yapp version i use..
15:38<yorick>I think
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15:38<yorick>I don't know if the diffing worked
15:38<Gonozal_VIII>or you could do that... download the from the link, there's the yapp version in my multipatch
15:38<Tekky>yorick: What if the reserved area of the train is very large so that the train will only arrive at the crossing in one minute? Will the crossing close anyway?
15:38<Gonozal_VIII>they do that in rl...
15:39<yorick>the crossing will always close when it gets reserved
15:39<Gonozal_VIII>crossings closed for ages
15:39<Gonozal_VIII>train nowhere to be seen...
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15:39<yorick>I had to compare a yapp patched file to a my-patched file
15:39<yorick>I don't know if it works
15:39<Gonozal_VIII>yep, got that
15:39<yorick>I have to go now, cya!
15:40-!-yorick [] has quit [Quit: bye all!]
15:40<planetmaker>yorick: I guess you sent your levels crossing patch to michi_cc?
15:40-!-Greysc[a]le is now known as Greyscale
15:40<planetmaker>bye, Yorick
15:41<@peter1138>Sacro: No. They're all on or near GRFCrawler...
15:41<Prof_Frink>what the... it's not *DNS* that's broken, it'd *ARP*
15:41<Sacro>peter1138: but i'm soooooooooo lazy
15:41<@peter1138>no shit :p
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15:45*Sacro downloads coop grfpack
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15:48<Sacro>peter1138: i'm missing one set D:
15:49<Sacro>peter1138: can you upgrade canset to 0.3d
15:50<Sacro>cos i can't find 0.3c :(
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15:52<Prof_Frink>silly routerer
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15:57<Eddi|zuHause2><Tekky> yorick: What if the reserved area of the train is very large so that the train will only arrive at the crossing in one minute? Will the crossing close anyway? <- that is totally realistic, signals may not turn green unless the road crossings have been reserved
15:58<Gonozal_VIII>that link opens two tabs at once^^
15:59<Gonozal_VIII>wikipedia page for zugunglück and a 404
15:59<@peter1138>it's good fun when a station is right next to a level crossing
15:59<@peter1138>train is near, crossing closes, train stops at station, cars get pissed off....
15:59<Sacro>peter1138: i need canset 0.3c
15:59<Sacro>or you to upgrade to d
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16:00<Gonozal_VIII>we have that every day here
16:00<SmatZ>Gonozal_VIII: pissed off cars?
16:01<@peter1138>yay, shared restrictions
16:01<Prof_Frink>Sacro: care to make a grfpack so's I can destroy you?
16:01<Sacro>Prof_Frink: what do you mean?
16:01<Sacro>i have Brianetta's standard grf pack
16:01<Eddi|zuHause2>Gonozal_VIII: only for people who do not use UTF-8
16:01<Sacro>and the Co-op v6 pack
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16:06<HMage>мямя, всем привет
16:06<Gonozal_VIII> <-- either that's the wrong diff or it doesn't work... that is already in yapp and bars don't close earlier
16:09<@peter1138>Gonozal_VIII: robots are not infallable
16:10<Sacro>peter1138: please email me teh codez
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16:10<Sacro>or you upgrade to 0.3d
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16:15<@peter1138>(and compiling my local copy of pbs)
16:16<Sacro>HE IS IN :D
16:16-!-DJMirage [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:16<@peter1138>:D :D :D
16:17<@peter1138>poo, i need a release build as this laptop is too slow :o
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16:23*HMage распаковывает Numark TotalControl -- (184kb)
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16:26<Eddi|zuHause2>ooook... that is really major blockage there...
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16:41<Sacro>Tekky: oi, join the server
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16:47<Phantasm>Have any users reported any weird crashes of the whole computer with windows and openttd 0.6.0-beta3?
16:48<Phantasm>I don't recall my computer crashing even once during at least half a year other than playing openttd.. And with it I tend to get crashes on average every 5 hours or so.
16:48<+glx>there are known bugs in it, but only ottd should crash
16:48<+glx>well not crash, but assert
16:48<Phantasm>I don't recall getting any crashes in single player mode though. So might be only multiplayer.
16:49<Phantasm>Usually it gives a BSOD.. At least once the reason was 'irql is not less or equal'.
16:53<fjb>Hm, some defective RAM that is usually unused?
16:53<Phantasm>Can't be.
16:54<Prof_Frink>why not?
16:54<Phantasm>Much more is typically used than when I play ott.
16:54<Vikthor>So maybe network-card drivers?
16:55<Prof_Frink>Still, an app shouldn't be able to crash the OS
16:55<Phantasm>Prof_Frink: Talking about windows, many games do crash windows.
16:55<Phantasm>As in some games do it with some stuff faulty in them.
16:55<Phantasm>It is a normal way to code for windows to make everything yourself overriding windows API. Thus you need admin rights to run the game and you can also crash the comp with it.
16:55<Gonozal_VIII>if you want to make an app that crashes windows, you have so many possibilities to choose from...
16:56<Prof_Frink>"lol, winfail."
16:56<Gonozal_VIII>most harmless... just trigger a shutdown
16:57<Phantasm>Faulty driver is possible, but as nothing else has crashed the comp, it is more likely that the game has a bug.
16:58<@peter1138>a bug that nobody else has triggered
17:00<Gonozal_VIII>did you set it to open in a resolution that your monitor doesn't support or something?
17:01<Phantasm>Gonozal_VIII: That wouldn't do anything special... And I play at windowed mode.
17:01<Gonozal_VIII>well... it could look like a crash if the screen goes black^^
17:02*Belugas goes home
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17:03<Phantasm>Gonozal_VIII: It doesn't crash at start. And if it gives a BSOD the screen isn't black at that time. Though, it does go black for some time typically.
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17:03<Phantasm>Then it either gives BSOD or the whole comp is not responding (ctrl+alt+del etc don't work) and has to be reset.
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17:06<Gonozal_VIII>how big is the limit for attachment size in the forum?
17:08<Rubidium>if OTTD creates BSODs then either the hardware is bugged or the drivers of the hardware or Windows because it must be impossible for an user application without elevated rights to crash a computer to a BSOD
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17:10<Sacro>Rubidium: that sounds like a challenge
17:13<+glx>the only BSOD I get with XP are caused by graphic card driver
17:16<+glx>and usually it's my fault
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17:41<Tekky>Phantasm: It is true that Windows games often crash the whole PC. But these games have their own drivers, for example for copy protection.
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17:42<@Bjarni>you are so predicable
17:42<Gonozal_VIII>am not
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17:42<@Bjarni>you are
17:42<@Bjarni>unless proven otherwise
17:43<Gonozal_VIII>you didn't predict that:
17:44<@Bjarni>actually I did :p
17:44<@Bjarni>you talked about adding patches and getting them to compile
17:44<@Bjarni>so I had a feeling that you might do something like this
17:44<Gonozal_VIII>i'm predictable :-(
17:45<@Bjarni>now a predictable action would be to do something really silly like declaring to get naked and start dancing (to avoid being predictable)
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18:11<@Bjarni>lol... some town council and their administration isn't replying on emails and when a computer magazine asked them why the major said "The mail system is something we all need to get used to use"
18:11<@Bjarni>so far it has taken them more than a year for their new structure to figure out how to reply to simple emails
18:11<Gonozal_VIII>yes, those new electronic mail thingies confuse me all the time
18:12<@Bjarni>I hate them
18:12<@Bjarni>I always wonder what will happen if the cable leaks
18:12<Gonozal_VIII>i don't even know where to place the stamp
18:12<@Bjarni>will the electrons flood the floor
18:12<@Bjarni>will I have to clean or replace the floor if it happens?
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18:13<Gonozal_VIII>i think you should... i've heard those electrons are very dangerous
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18:14<@Bjarni>so you are saying that those emails are actually pretty dangerous?
18:14<@Bjarni>and they can blow up houses?
18:14<Gonozal_VIII>indeed! they can kill you!
18:14<SmatZ>oh noes!
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18:16<Eddi|zuHause2>Bjarni: "Major" is a military commanding officer, the head of a town is called "Mayor"
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18:16<@Bjarni>I meant Mayor :s
18:16<Eddi|zuHause2>(compare to the common german family name "Maier")
18:17<@Bjarni>I knew it looked wrong when I wrote it :/
18:17<Gonozal_VIII>but maier has different roots i think
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18:19<@Bjarni> <-- wtf
18:20<@Bjarni>now Muslims are upset that somebody posted a picture of Muhammed on wikipedia
18:20<@Bjarni>the picture is a Muslim created one from 1315 so they are upset about their own picture
18:20<Eddi|zuHause2>"Meier" meanwhile is an unused word, it only occurs in names, but when you read texts about medieval times, "Meier" is used as a job name for people with administrative purpose, (also compare "Hausmeister")
18:20<Sacro>i bet a dane uploaded it
18:21<Gonozal_VIII>they are upset about everything
18:21<Eddi|zuHause2>Bjarni: the islamic religion forbids direct depiction of muhammed and the prophets
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18:23<@Bjarni>but then why did they make pictures of him themselves hundred of years ago?
18:23<Eddi|zuHause2>because it was less frowned upon?
18:23<@Bjarni>Sacro: that statement deserves to be ignored. Besides the wikipedia log appears to tell that the image started on the German page
18:24<Sacro>Bjarni: i love how your second sentance totally contradicts the first
18:24*Prof_Frink burns Sacro's embassy
18:24-!-Greyscale is now known as Greysc[a]le
18:24-!-Greysc[a]le is now known as Greyscale
18:25<@Bjarni>Sacro: no they don't. The first is a statement that you made a statement without investigating and such statements should be ignored. My 2nd statement was that I proved you to be incorrect and even gave the correct answer
18:25<@Bjarni>now you shouldn't make the same mistake again
18:25<@Bjarni>I'm being friendly to you
18:26<Andel>I've just called my teddy "jebus"
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18:26<Andel>I'm expecting media fall-out shortly
18:28<@Bjarni>you expect us to nuke you?
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18:32*Sacro checks the topic
18:32<Sacro>[23:24] <weirdy> *yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawn*
18:32<Sacro>[23:25] <Sacro> Just nod if you can hear me
18:32<Sacro>err :\
18:32<Sacro>forgot to press ^c
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18:42<@Bjarni>Sacro == Evan ?
18:42<Sacro>swiss != sweden
18:44<Gonozal_VIII>have you been to switzerland and sweden? do you know that they are not secretly the same?
18:44<@Bjarni>I saw "trading places". It had Leiderhosen from Sweden
18:45<@Bjarni>so it must be the same
18:45<Sacro>Gonozal_VIII: to be honest
18:45<Sacro>i don't belive in either
18:45<@Bjarni> <Gonozal_VIII> leiderhosen? <-- or something... you know... those pants you guys wear during the summer in the Alps
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18:47<@Bjarni>dammit I don't know how to explain it to you but I know what kind of pants I mean
18:47<@Bjarni>I know what they look like and such
18:47<@Bjarni>and so do you
18:47<Gonozal_VIII>lederhosen :P
18:47<@Bjarni>ohh... all I needed was to google it and google corrected the spelling xD
18:48<@Bjarni>yeah I just figured it out
18:48<Gonozal_VIII>and no, "we guys" don't wear them
18:48<@Bjarni>or google did :D
18:48<@Bjarni>you don't?
18:48<@Bjarni>are you nudists or something?
18:49<Gonozal_VIII>erm... normal pants?^^
18:49<Gonozal_VIII>that stuff is just for the tourists
18:50<@Bjarni>so you are saying that you screw history?
18:50<Gonozal_VIII>yep, a lot
18:50<@Bjarni>then how am I supposed to know you?
18:50<@Bjarni>if you dress up like everybody else
18:50<Gonozal_VIII>you're not
18:51<@Bjarni>why not?
18:51<@Bjarni>are you ashamed of your country?
18:51<Gonozal_VIII>you will notice, when i shout bjarni!
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18:51<Gonozal_VIII>do you wear the same stuff that people in your country wore centories ago?
18:52<Eddi|zuHause2>something is not quite right with these overtaking sections...
18:52<Gonozal_VIII>missing priority
18:52<Eddi|zuHause2>trains that were just overtaken tend to overtake the other train again immediately
18:52<@Bjarni><Gonozal_VIII> do you wear the same stuff that people in your country wore centories ago? <-- sometimes
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18:53<@Bjarni>and I bet we would do it more if we had cool pants like that
18:53<Gonozal_VIII>do you know, how expensive those are?
18:54<@Bjarni>but usually there are tourist prices and local prices
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18:54<@Bjarni>EU don't want that but it's the truth anyway
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18:55<Eddi|zuHause2>Gonozal_VIII: yes, missing lookahead reservation
18:55<@Bjarni> <-- cold?
18:55<@Bjarni>those guys don't understand physics
18:55<Gonozal_VIII>i guess if priority trains would reserve a longer path than normal trains, it could work
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18:57<Eddi|zuHause2>no, it wouldn't, then the second train would just reserve two overtaking sections ahead
18:59<Gonozal_VIII>how about not building them so close after one another? then the faster train would already be too far ahead for the other to overtake back
18:59<Eddi|zuHause2>if a strong reservation hits a lookahead reservation of another train {needs some way to resolve the train from the reserved tile}, train priorities are decided (some formula of speed, distance, nice value)
18:59<Eddi|zuHause2>if lookahead reservation has higher priority, reservation is denied
19:00<Gonozal_VIII>(some formula of speed, distance, nice value) <-- dropdown 0-7 or something
19:00<Eddi|zuHause2>Gonozal_VIII: no, when the "fast" train gets back to the main track (which is unrealistic, usually the slow train switches lanes)
19:01<Eddi|zuHause2>the "slow" train is already waiting at the signal
19:01<Eddi|zuHause2>so as soon as the fast train releases the switch, the slow train reserves the track
19:01<Eddi|zuHause2>it can't reserve the normal track, because the train is still in the way
19:01<Eddi|zuHause2>so it reserves the overtaking track
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19:02<Eddi|zuHause2>and the "fast" train cannot go on, because the overtaking track reserves the way to the main track again (to guarantee overtaking completed)
19:03<Gonozal_VIII>well, that sucks then
19:04<Gonozal_VIII>don't use trains with different speed :P
19:05<Eddi|zuHause2>yeah, right :p
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19:10<Eddi|zuHause2>i think you can make it work the way Tekky described it, have 4 types of reservation
19:10<Eddi|zuHause2>full: this is the area where the train would stand if it stopped at the next signal
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19:10<Eddi|zuHause2>strong: this is the area where the train will go no matter what
19:11<Eddi|zuHause2>weak: this is the area where the train will go unless he is intercepted
19:11<Eddi|zuHause2>lookahead: this is where the train would go if he could do as he pleased
19:11<Gonozal_VIII>what's the difference between full and strong?
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19:12<Eddi|zuHause2>strong is the way between where the train is now and where he might stop
19:12<Eddi|zuHause2>the point is that strong is expected to get free soon
19:12<Eddi|zuHause2>whereas full might stay full for a while, when the train is waiting
19:13<Eddi|zuHause2>full is always one train length backwards from the next signal
19:15<Gonozal_VIII>so reservation needs 3 bit
19:15<Gonozal_VIII>still 3 options left then^^
19:15<Eddi|zuHause2>more like a bitmask
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19:16<Eddi|zuHause2>a tile might be full reserved by the slow train, and lookahead reserved by the fast train behind it
19:16<Eddi|zuHause2>then the slow train will switch lanes, because that is lookahead reserved with lower priority
19:16<Eddi|zuHause2>the fast train will then overtake on the right track
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19:17<Eddi|zuHause2>you get the idea?
19:18<Gonozal_VIII>sounds complicated
19:18<Eddi|zuHause2>gets worse if you want to store a priority value and a train number with the reservation
19:20<Gonozal_VIII>you can store that in the train
19:20<Gonozal_VIII>bitmask for reservation
19:20<Gonozal_VIII>(on the track)
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19:20<Eddi|zuHause2>not if you want to resolve the train which reserved the track while reserving for another train
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19:20<Eddi|zuHause2>the priority value is dynamic
19:20<Eddi|zuHause2>it increases when the train apporaches
19:21<Gonozal_VIII>a lot to store
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19:21<Eddi|zuHause2>train may have priority -30 on one tile, and -25 on the next
19:21<Eddi|zuHause2>priorities are usually signed
19:21<Gonozal_VIII>no negatives...
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19:22<Eddi|zuHause2>so you have 0 as the default value
19:22<Eddi|zuHause2>and can both assign lower and higher priorities for special occasions
19:22<Eddi|zuHause2>and also, negative number is usually the higher priority
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19:29<Sacro>so... how
19:29<Sacro>do i do graphics
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19:47<Tekky>Eddi: Actually, I define a "weak" reservation differently. By making a "weak" reservation, you are telling other trains: "You may use this track for now, as long as you promise that you won't get stuck on this piece of track, because I will be needing this piece of track myself in the near future or I may risk causing a deadlock."
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19:48<Tekky>Eddi: In other words, a "weak" reservation permits other trains to make "strong" reservations but not "full" reservations.
19:48<Tekky>Eddi: Otherwise there would be the risk of a deadlock.
19:49<Tekky>Please see my wiki article on how these "weak" reservations prevent deadlocks:
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19:51<Eddi|zuHause2>well, i won't believe it until you show the patch ;)
19:52<Eddi|zuHause2>but that doesn't exclude my explanation
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19:52<Eddi|zuHause2>my version said "i want to go here, but not immediately, so you can still cross"
19:53<Eddi|zuHause2>the "but don't make full reservation" bit sounds interesting, though
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19:58<Tekky>Eddi: <Eddi|zuHause2> weak: this is the area where the train will go unless he is intercepted <--- your formulation was very different :)
19:58<Eddi|zuHause2>hm, i need a pathfinder penalty for taking the left branch of a switch
19:58<Tekky>Eddi: but I am happy with your new formulation.
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19:59<Gonozal_VIII>hm, i need a pathfinder penalty for taking the left branch of a switch <--?
20:00<Tekky>Eddi: Yes, I had the same problem too. We need a facility for adding an additonal weight for every trackpiece :)
20:00<Tekky>Eddi: Or at least for every track segment.
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20:02<Tekky>but it would be a waste of memory to store it in the map array.
20:02<Tekky>as there are about 10 possible track pieces per tile.
20:02<Tekky>well, we need to be able to specify the weight for every direction, so 12.
20:03<Tekky>so this will have to be stored externally from the map array.
20:03<Gonozal_VIII>reservation array?^^
20:04<Tekky>well, this feature won't be used much, anyway, the user will only want to specify 100 track pieces per map to have additional weights.
20:04<Eddi|zuHause2>Gonozal_VIII: when there are two equivalent paths through a signal block the right one is usually the less blocking one
20:05<Gonozal_VIII>what if the train has to turn left?
20:05<Gonozal_VIII>then it will probably turn right tree times instead^^
20:05<Tekky>it will still do so, we are only taking about additonal weights.
20:05<Tekky>taking = talking
20:06<Tekky>the pathfinder will then still take the "bad" route if the "good" route is not available.
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20:08<Tekky>we only want to discourage the pathfinder from taking a specific route.
20:08<Tekky>and not to forbid it from doing so.
20:09<Tekky>Eddi: Do you think it would be enough to specify an additional weight for a specific trackdir on a specific tile?
20:09<Tekky>Eddi: in order to solve your problem? I have been thinking about making such a patch. It should be easy to implement, the main work is making a GUI where you can define these tiles, trackdirs and weights.
20:10<Eddi|zuHause2>Tekky: no, i think a global yapf penalty for left and right should suffice, default to equal
20:10<Eddi|zuHause2>alternately, let users specify which one is the main track and which one is the branching track
20:11<Tekky>hmmmmm, let me post a screenshot where I think such a global penalty won't be sufficient.... just a moment...
20:12<Gonozal_VIII>signs with that:
20:12<Gonozal_VIII>and that^^
20:13<Gonozal_VIII> and that too :-)
20:13<Eddi|zuHause2>Gonozal_VIII: more like Wn 1 and Wn 2:
20:14<Gonozal_VIII>i like the others better
20:14<Gonozal_VIII>i can actually read them^^
20:15<Tekky>there is the screenshot.
20:15<Gonozal_VIII>screenshot on rapidshare...
20:15<Eddi|zuHause2>an image hoster might have been more useful ;)
20:16<Tekky>what's wrong with entering a 4-digit code? :)
20:16<Tekky>you can still view it inline with your browser.
20:16<Gonozal_VIII>the entering a 4-digit code part ;-)
20:16<Eddi|zuHause2>Tekky: afaik, YAPF also tries to minimise the number of crossings
20:16<Gonozal_VIII>that's a hugeish station
20:17<Tekky>On this screenshot, you can see two trains trying to leave the station. One train has now reserved a route in the screenshot. However, it should have turned right immediately, so that the second train could also have reserved a path out of the station.
20:18<Gonozal_VIII>you don't need 6 lines in and out to serve a 12 platform station
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20:18<Gonozal_VIII>a single line can fill 5 platforms easily
20:18<Gonozal_VIII>depending on the speed and length of the trains...
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20:19<Eddi|zuHause2>my double track lines usually end at a 4 track station
20:19<Tekky>well, I like my station that way :)
20:20<Tekky>I was mainly experimenting....
20:20<Eddi|zuHause2>Gonozal_VIII: don't tell me you have never seen these
20:20<Gonozal_VIII>you can overload the station and still have 3 lines free :-)
20:21<Gonozal_VIII>sure i've seen the cube thingies with white stuff but i can't read them while i can read the road signs ;-)
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20:22<Tekky>Eddi: minimizing the number of crossings doesn't seem to help here.
20:23<Tekky>Eddi: The only thing that would help would be to be able to add a specific weight for a specific trackdir on a specific tile.
20:23<Gonozal_VIII>but what would help? would need an ai to figure out the best path
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20:24<Tekky>the user can then manually add specific weights for specific track pieces.
20:24<Tekky>that way, I could discourage the train from doing what it did in my screenshot.
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20:24<Eddi|zuHause2>yes, but that needs very much micromanagement
20:25<Tekky>well, there won't be many situations where you will be needing this.
20:25<Eddi|zuHause2>more useful would be a "station planner" that can explicitely prefer certain routes from one platform
20:25<Gonozal_VIII>and you can't see it right away how it is set... you would have to click on every tile to check
20:26<Tekky>Eddi: are you suggesting that the preferred routes should be stored from signal to signal?
20:26<Eddi|zuHause2>yes, something like that
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20:29<Gonozal_VIII>buuut i would say all that can wait until the more basic features of pbs work correctly ;-)
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20:33<Gekz>I know you from somewhere...
20:34<Gekz>could it be a drunken computer rage aftermath?
20:34<Gonozal_VIII>[02:33:29] *** Nickname already in use. Please choose another (/nick {name}).
20:34<Gonozal_VIII>that sucks
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20:36*You have been disconnected from IRC. Please reconnect.
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20:36<Gonozal_VIII>funny :P
20:36<Eddi|zuHause3>been there, done that
20:37<Gonozal_VIII>there was a whole conversation with nicks like that
20:37<Gonozal_VIII>that was fun :-)
20:38<fjb>Good night.
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21:06<Eddi|zuHause3>so... which idiot made me open bash today?
21:07<Gonozal_VIII>that would be sacro
21:07<Eddi|zuHause3>no, it's always bjarni
21:09<Gonozal_VIII>danland :-)
21:10<+glx>Sacro did post a bash link 25 min before bjarni
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21:16<Eddi|zuHause3>your intartubes are teh borken
21:17<Gonozal_VIII>other guy downloading and downloading and downloading..
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21:42<Phantasm>Sure is nice to have 25k people town in 1963 with 100 fountains/statues.
21:42<Phantasm>Make that 100 of both.
21:42<Gekz>you hacker you
21:43<Phantasm>Nope. Just enough traffic and it goes to 25k when starting from 1950.
21:43<Gonozal_VIII>there's a setting for that
21:43<Phantasm>And the town is such that it has those stupid and almost useless fountains/statues in the middle of it.
21:43<Phantasm>Like every other building is statue/fountain near the middle.
21:44<Gonozal_VIII>towns often have big squares and parks in their center...
21:45-!-murray [murray@2002:9e27:7c85:8:210:5aff:fe3b:5950] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:46<Gekz>we need to write a town ai
21:46<Gekz>where they dont fail.
21:47<CIA-5>OpenTTD: belugas * r12089 /trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): -Cleanup: re-order, yet another time, the files in msvc projects
21:49<CIA-5>OpenTTD: belugas * r12090 /trunk/src/ (economy_type.h player_base.h player_gui.cpp): -Codechange : removed a magic number and code style application on enum ExpensesType
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22:03<CIA-5>OpenTTD: belugas * r12091 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Codechange : remove all production level magic numbers and replace them by enums
22:04<urlauber>hi there. is it possible to change the vehicle breakdown behaviour on a dedicated server somehow?
22:05<+glx>only in openttd.cfg
22:05-!-ThePizzaKing [] has quit [Quit: ThePizzaKing]
22:05<+glx>like all difficulty settings
22:05<urlauber>so I have to restart the game, right?
22:06<urlauber>sh*t :)
22:06<+glx>maybe one day they will be modifiable from console
22:07<Phantasm>Improved loading algorith sure is nice.. I can now send 40 ships to a dock at same time without worries.
22:07<+glx>yes it's a real fifo loading now
22:07<Phantasm>The game just lags a bit when I click the green button on depot.
22:07<urlauber>this would be great! thx, bye!
22:07<+glx>disable yapf and npf for ships
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22:08<Phantasm>YAPF is disabled, how do I disable NPF just for ships?
22:09<+glx>disable npf for all
22:09<Phantasm>I want to disallow trains doing 90 degree turns.
22:09<+glx>works with yapf too
22:10<Phantasm>The patch setting says it requires NPF.
22:10<+glx>it needs updating :)
22:10<Phantasm>How much will disabling NPF affect the pathing of trains?
22:10<Phantasm>And if YAPF is in use for everything else than ships, will it affect anything else?
22:11<saati>how does openttd calculate time in transport for cargo? time elapsed since it is in the station, since it's loaded on a vehicle or since it started from the station?
22:11<+glx>yapf has priority over npf
22:11<Phantasm>How will ships path without NPF?
22:12<+glx>so if yapf is enabled for a vehicle type, npf is not used for this type
22:12<+glx>they will use OPF
22:12<CIA-5>OpenTTD: belugas * r12092 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp:
22:12<CIA-5>OpenTTD: -Fix(r11532)[FS#1755]: Make sure the production level will not get out of delimited boundaries, while using var result 0D/0E and than multiplying/dividing it.
22:12<CIA-5>OpenTTD: And use multiply/divide operations instead of shifting. It does the same, just adds a bit more readability
22:12<+glx>(the original pathfinder)
22:12<+glx>it needs buoys, but is less resource eater
22:13<Phantasm>I wonder how the pathfinder works as it doesn't seem to affect how big the lake is.
22:13<Phantasm>With NPF that is.
22:14<+glx>it considers each water tile has all tracks (in train sense)
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22:14<Phantasm>So with a long distance on very big water are it would need to do a lot of work, while on a small water area it should be fast?
22:15<saati>is the path search algorithm documented somewhere or use the source luke?
22:15<@Belugas>Eddi|zuHause3, fs1754, how does it look in ttdpatch?
22:15<Phantasm>Yet, I don't see the difference.
22:15<+glx>each tile is a junction, so it needs to try a lot of path to find the best
22:18<Phantasm>200 squares long route, about straight, on a sea with few obstacles and a total of a couple hundred thousand tiles. Lag of sending 20 ships at once is about same as it is in 40 squares route on sea area with 500 tiles.
22:19<+glx>saati: try
22:20<saati>that looks an awfoul lot like an api doc
22:22<+glx>I know some parts of code are very well detailed, don't know if pf are in this case
22:22<@Belugas>it is a documetation generated out of the sources themselves
22:22<Phantasm>Is there a documentation on how fluctuating economy works on industry production levels? What are the odds for production going up/down depending on rating etc.
22:23<+glx>hmm there's a blog entry about that
22:23<Gekz>steady is boring
22:23<Gonozal_VIII>oh noes, blog
22:23<saati>in wich file is yapf.FindPath?
22:23<Gekz>grep yapf.FindPath -Ri ./
22:24<saati>i would need a checked out svn copy for that
22:24<Phantasm>Especially, what does "If the service achieves excellent or outstanding ratings, industry tries to fill the increased demand for cargo." mean in reality?
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22:26<sadfsdg>i've been called a developer :D
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---Logclosed Sat Feb 09 00:00:49 2008