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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-02-12

---Logopened Tue Feb 12 00:00:38 2008
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01:00<DaCrusader>hey guys
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01:06<DaCrusader>damnit only 23000 and i need a new train...
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05:57<Sacro>Yesterday all servers in the U.S. went out on strike in a bid to get more RAM and better CPUs. A spokes person said that the need for better RAM was due to some fool increasing the front-side bus speed. In future, buses will be told to slow down in residential motherboards.
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06:11<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12119 /trunk/src/ (newgrf.cpp newgrf.h): -Codechange: Rename grfspec_feature to match code style, and expose in header for use elsewhere.
06:12<Gekz>Sacro: you fail!
06:13<Sacro>soon be r12121
06:14<Gekz>that's also uncool
06:15<Gekz>12345 is cool
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07:05<@peter1138>lol @ one billion daleks
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07:21<SmatZ>I really don't like people like him :-x
07:21<SmatZ>"The thing is ... I played the original TTD on a 66Mhz 80286 processor with nothing more than a extremely primitive graphics chip on the motherboard"
07:21<SmatZ>not only troll, he is even stupid
07:21<SmatZ>not even that overclocked 80286 wouldn't run 32bit game TTD is
07:22<Priski>he really thinks that he knows the best whats going on in the game mechanics
07:23<Priski>"13:59 < Kutulainen> sensuroitu?
07:23<SmatZ>yeah, and he "knows" it is all done bad
07:23<Forked>strange fellow
07:23<Priski>sorry about that
07:28<Priski>accident paste from discussion on internet sencorship
07:28<SmatZ>hmm lapisporno is not a porno
07:28<Priski>I would NOT recomment to open any of the links if you found a long list of links
07:28*SmatZ is against censorhip and everything :)
07:29<Priski>it is not english, it's finnish
07:29<globester>isn't lapis latin for rock?
07:29<globester>which has a hard core
07:29<globester>hardcore porn
07:30<Sacro>dualcore porn?
07:32<globester>heisse scheisse
07:32<Priski>germans rock btw
07:33<Priski>just came into mind
07:33<globester>any specific reason?
07:33<SmatZ>porn maybe?
07:33<Priski>well been ever before in germany?
07:34<globester>yes, our car broke down
07:36<Priski>for reasons, germans, In my point of view, they really like have sex and it kinda shows, but yet they seem so serious all the time.
07:37<keyweed_>sex is serious business
07:37-!-keyweed_ is now known as keyweed
07:37<Priski>I one time have watched german and italian version of Who want's to be a millionare
07:37<Priski>on hotel at same time
07:37<keyweed>italian tv is weird. they have a bimbo for every occasion.
07:37<Priski>and it was like total opposites
07:38<Priski>italian host barely stayed on the seat when he was busy talkin BS and touching contestant and laughing
07:39<Priski>and german host looked like he was just had his left ball cut off at hospital.
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07:40<Priski>but the best TV in the world
07:40<Priski>it has to be japanese shows
07:41<Eddi|zuHause3>where people get put dangerous animals put on their head and have to gues what it is?
07:42<Priski>well for example
07:42<Eddi|zuHause3>or "human tetris" ;)
07:42<Priski>I like those games that downtown dudes are doing now
07:42<Priski>do not laugh at hospital etc
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07:44<Priski>if you laugh even a little you get punished, and dear god they have funny shit on those places that just meant to get them laugh
07:45<Priski>it's like big brother torture show in a very original way
07:47<Priski>yeah that also
07:48<Priski>on one part on "do not laugh at school" I almost dropped out of my seat when they introduced their ne Gymnastic theacher, same fellow, Hard Gay
07:49<Eddi|zuHause3>i have never heard of that show...
07:50<Priski> there
07:50<Priski>subtitled also some parts of that is missing somewhere in between, since its total over 60min or something
07:50<Priski>copyright claims :(
07:55<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12121 /trunk/src/widgets/dropdown.cpp: -Fix [FS#1764]: Drop down item indexes are now an int instead of a byte (Yexo)
07:56*Forked drinks to that
07:56<SmatZ>good job
07:56<SmatZ>it is very unlikely that 0.6.0 will be r12345
07:56<Eddi|zuHause3>it's not even prime
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08:02<@peter1138>Should it be?
08:03<SmatZ>10000 wasn't prime too
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08:09<Eddi|zuHause3>there was no 10000
08:09<Eddi|zuHause3>@openttd commit 9999
08:09<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause3: Commit by rubidium :: r9999 /trunk (12 files in 5 dirs) (2007-05-31 15:15:00 UTC)
08:09<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause3: -Feature: make it possible to disallow busses and lorries to go a specific way on straight pieces of road.
08:10<Eddi|zuHause3>@openttd commit 10001
08:10<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause3: Commit by belugas :: r10001 /trunk/src (3 files in 2 dirs) (2007-05-31 15:40:36 UTC)
08:10<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause3: -Codechange: Add support for removing dynamically allocated newgrf data
08:10<Eddi|zuHause3>@openttd commit 10000
08:10<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause3: Commit by rubidium :: r10000 mapgen/README (2007-05-31 15:16:44 UTC)
08:10<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause3: -Fix: the readme did not explain how to install the wonderfull ``world'' needed for mapgen.
08:17<nzvip>Is this not legal in C?
08:17<nzvip>n->next->prev = n;
08:17<nzvip>For some reason gcc does not like when I do that.
08:17<nzvip>Here's the message: pqueue.c:39: error: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type
08:18<Eddi|zuHause3>smells like an error in a totally different place
08:19<nzvip>I also get a lot of these warnings:
08:19<nzvip>pqueue.c:17: warning: assignment from incompatible pointer type
08:19<nzvip> pq->first = n;
08:19<nzvip>n = pnode_t*; pq->first = pnode_t*;
08:19<nzvip>So I cannot see what is wrong with it.
08:24<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12122 /trunk/ (7 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: Add framework for generic feature callbacks, along with some parts for AI use.
08:26<SmatZ>nzvip: are next, prev pointers?
08:26<nzvip>It is a doubly linked list.
08:26<nzvip>Simple stuff - or so I thought.
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08:32<Slayerofrage>ey up
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08:35<nzvip>SmatZ; here is the source
08:40<SmatZ> pnode_t* n = malloc(sizeof(pnode_t));
08:40<SmatZ>can't this be the problem? malloc returns void*
08:40<SmatZ>but maybe it is valid in C
08:40<@peter1138>it is valid in C
08:41<HMage>it's valid in C
08:41<SmatZ>ok, it is valid in C :-)
08:41<@peter1138>your struct definitions are invalid
08:42<@peter1138>the struct is called pnode not pnode_t
08:42<@peter1138>the typedef is called pnode_t
08:42<nzvip>I thought the name afterwards was the name.
08:43<nzvip>:o peter1138 was right.
08:43<Eddi|zuHause3>what's the use of a typedef anyway?
08:44<@peter1138>minor. means you don't need to reference it by struct foo everywhere
08:44<HMage>and, you can have a name that some editors might recognize that it's a type
08:44<HMage>emacs, for example, highlights every type that ends with _t
08:45<nzvip>What is the switch for debug in gcc?
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08:48<@peter1138>emacs... ew ;)
08:49<HMage>that was an example :D
08:49<HMage>but I admit I use it from time to time
08:49<@peter1138>vim doesn't understand general _t :(
08:50<@peter1138>one day i'll figure out how to get it to highlight ottd's types...
08:51<Eddi|zuHause3>rewrite openttd in python, then you don't need to care about types anymore ;)
08:51<HMage>then create a perl wrapper around python to cater about people that use perl :D
08:51<@peter1138>then a C wrapper around that...
08:51<HMage>then create an API for C language
08:51<HMage>and a C+ wrapper for C API
08:52<+glx>extern C { ... } <-- done
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08:52<HMage>then make it into D
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09:15<@peter1138>is for horses
09:15<Forked>munch munch
09:16<dragonhorseboy>very funny
09:16<dragonhorseboy>anyone got oat and/or grain for me to eat then? :p
09:16<dragonhorseboy>either way how're you peter?
09:17*dragonhorseboy pokes slayerofrage for no reason ;)
09:18*Slayerofrage attacks dragonhorseboy with random movie quotes
09:21<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r12123 /trunk/projects/generate.vbs: -Add: generate.vbs script to allow project files generation for users unable to run generate bash script
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09:26<Eddi|zuHause3>i'm not sure wether the users randomly spamming around or the vbs is more scary yet ;)
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09:35*dragonhorseboy whacks slayerofrage with "who the b***h are you?" from movie :p
09:39*Slayerofrage slaps dragon horseboy with some 0xdeadbeef
09:39<dragonhorseboy>slayerofrage hehehehehehhe
09:41<dragonhorseboy>so what you doing now?
09:43<Slayerofrage>Trying to export some Maya prototypes to blender so i can work on some 32bpp sets
09:43<Slayerofrage>tis a pain in the arse cos a lot of my maya stuff is for MSTS, and animation i have done
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09:44<Slayerofrage>and trying to convert into ottd lighting views, palletes is a pain :(
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09:48<dragonhorseboy>slayerofrage good luck with that ;)
09:49<dragonhorseboy><is looking for more grfs aside to trying to redraw the pcx (from the ttd base grfs especially tr1gr.grf too)
09:51<Eddi|zuHause3>V100 in blue looks weird...
09:51<dragonhorseboy>V100? is that the diesel shunter or that mainline hydraulic-driven with V shaped exhausts?
09:51<dragonhorseboy><never could quite remember german classes sometimes
09:52<Eddi|zuHause3>V100 is a side line diesel
09:52<dragonhorseboy>what was that one with the hydrualic transmission and V-shaped exhaust then?
09:52<Eddi|zuHause3>V stands for "Verbrennungsmotor"
09:53<dragonhorseboy>I know it was dual cabs and painted both red then blue
09:53<Eddi|zuHause3>100 is roughly 1/10 of the power
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09:54<dragonhorseboy>eddi...heh wait... I did a dumb search for 'german hydraulic rail diesel' and what I was thinking of was V200
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09:55<dragonhorseboy> in the well known red
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09:55<dragonhorseboy>I remember seeing some photos of these being in the blue paint for a while tho
09:56<Eddi|zuHause3>well... they were kinda before my time...
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09:58<dragonhorseboy>eddi...mine too, I don't know why DB (or was it DR or was that even both? meh there you go) bothered painting several things blue instead of the typical red for some time
09:58<Eddi|zuHause3>it was DB... DR did not change liveries very often...
09:58<dragonhorseboy>at least the BR101 (or was that 110? ughh anyone mind helping here???) was left in a nice yellow+red stripped paintjob together with coaches to match
09:59<Eddi|zuHause3>103 you are thinking of
09:59<dragonhorseboy>you see how I'm not so good at remembering most german classes :p
09:59<dragonhorseboy>at least there is one named class I do always remember tho due to their unusual look...
09:59<dragonhorseboy>Kof and Kof II .... little low thinge shunting cars around
10:00<Eddi|zuHause3>103 is likely the most famous engine of all
10:00<Eddi|zuHause3>sure it wasn't Köf?
10:00<yorick>is there anyone that wants the regional_yapf_for_ships.patch updated?
10:01<dragonhorseboy>eddi....don't bother asking...I have enough trouble typing special characters at times here :p
10:01<dragonhorseboy>especially for the 'a' in marklin too
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10:02<Eddi|zuHause3>like i said... if you don't have ö, write oe
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10:02<dragonhorseboy>fair enough ^_^
10:03<dragonhorseboy>but anyhow...the reason I like these little things is because well they seem to be the smallest [standard gauge] near-mainline working engine I've ever known of
10:03<dragonhorseboy>smaller than the GE 44 tonners in usa even
10:03<Eddi|zuHause3>well, they were that small to load them on a wagon to move them from one station to another
10:04<dragonhorseboy>oh hmm never knew that one
10:04<Eddi|zuHause3>with 40km/h, they would block the line too long driving on its own
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10:04<dragonhorseboy>but anyhow this is the smallest yet common diesel we even had (thats an early covered hopper car behind it yeah)
10:05<dragonhorseboy>GE also made these to skirt an early steam>diesel era requirement that you needed a crew of two above certain locomotive weight (alak these little things could be driven with only the engineer and conductor alone with no issue)
10:06<dragonhorseboy>hmm say that reminds me...
10:07<dragonhorseboy>eddi if you want to what you think of the power on this train? heh
10:07<dragonhorseboy>(yeah they're 6 axles)
10:08<Eddi|zuHause3>why would they need that huge engines when they only carry that few cars?
10:08<dragonhorseboy>Alco PA+PB units...and early on it wasn't unusual for sets to only have a single numbering to make them appear as only one locomotive alak only one crew needed (again the transition era was weird, don't ask me)
10:09<dragonhorseboy>eddi...Rio Grande was a "through the mountains, not around them" railroad in middle of Colorado and well you can imagine
10:09<dragonhorseboy>otherwise yeah it could have had been only two units in flatter country
10:10<Eddi|zuHause3>then why not go electric?
10:10<Eddi|zuHause3>i don't understand american railways...
10:12<dragonhorseboy>electric? I think it would be due to the cost and not wanting to have to do engine swaps
10:13<Eddi|zuHause3>mountain routes were the main reason to introduce electric in germany
10:13<dragonhorseboy>but there is one thing tho... one coal slugger line did electrific a particular line because of a harsh grade with tunnel in middle ... but whats interesting and unique to them was that when they finally did a line relocation that was less serve the electrics were retired for yet a batch order of more steam (rather than diesel)
10:14<dragonhorseboy>eddi yeah I have to agree with you there...but there is one short copper railroad that went all-electrified from the start for economy reason
10:15<dragonhorseboy>started 1913 and retired to diesels in '67 (thats 54 years on the old boxcabs!)
10:15<Eddi|zuHause3>by WWII, pretty much 100% of the swiss railway network was electrified
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10:18<dragonhorseboy>eddi...Sweden kept some steam in storage due to concern about a powergrid sabotage effectively halting all electric locomotives but eventually the cold war ended in '89 and one of them ended up in canada [actually only a few km from where I'm living ha] on a short popular tourist line
10:19<dragonhorseboy> this is the site they have
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10:20<hylje>and diesel..
10:20<Eddi|zuHause3>russia kept a big stash of (german conquered) steam engines for the european standard gauge in poland
10:21<dragonhorseboy>eddi ... I never did really understood why electrification wasn't more spreadwide in north america but at least you can count on the east usa corridor service being a healthy mix of amtrak electrics
10:21<dragonhorseboy>or if you were to go back to before amtrak (probably best in 30-50's) you'll find a lot of variety in electrics not to mention our infamous GG1 units
10:22<Gonozal_VIII>"our"? you're from america and write english like that?
10:23<Gonozal_VIII>(sorry... but strange)
10:23<dragonhorseboy>artist render for anyone wondering (some of them got steam boilers so the smoking from the rear roof section is pretty normal)
10:23<dragonhorseboy>gonozal...well excuse me..sometimes I don't always pick good words ok? :p
10:23<dragonhorseboy>hylje...thats -diesel- ;)
10:24<dragonhorseboy>this is ELECTRIC!
10:24*dragonhorseboy chuckles
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10:25<dragonhorseboy>eddi hmm I just had to ask but did german have any kind of special mail trains before and/or now?
10:26<Gonozal_VIII>mail is mostly transported by lkw here (austria)
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10:26*dragonhorseboy sides with hylje (yeah whats that?)
10:27<frosch123>lkw = "lastkraftwagen" = truck
10:27<Gonozal_VIII>oh sorry, forgot that that's german^^
10:28<Gonozal_VIII>road vehicles... trucks.. rubber wheel thingies^^
10:28<saati>why do an electric train have a steam boiler?
10:28<Gonozal_VIII>wagon heating?
10:28<Eddi|zuHause3>dragonhorseboy: usually, passenger trains carried an extra mail wagon
10:28<dragonhorseboy>well in north america mail got moved by train quite often for till up to like 60-70's somewhere where the postal office decided that there was no point in it anymore and so the few remaining large mail trains ended their life the next day and that was it for good
10:29<Eddi|zuHause3>until the DB stopped all mail traffic on rails
10:29<Slayerofrage>happened in the uk too
10:29<dragonhorseboy>wasn't too rare that sometimes you would have one solid mail train then following it was an extra section with yet solid mails ... sure was lot of mails back then
10:29<Eddi|zuHause3>they did that in the 1990s
10:29<Slayerofrage>I remember when Royal mail used to have EMU, night sorting trains
10:30<Slayerofrage>but they stopped in the late 90's
10:30<dragonhorseboy>saati...frequently you would get new locomotives but still be reusing old consists and so hence thats why many early diesel and electrics had to come with steam boiler to handle heating the train till newer consists finally could be ordered re electric heating via HEP instead
10:31<saati>whats hep
10:31<dragonhorseboy>HeadEndPower heh
10:31<dragonhorseboy>meaning electric from the locomotive themself
10:31<dragonhorseboy>(or in case of car could have its own pantograph instead)
10:31<Gonozal_VIII>that's what i said :-)
10:31<Gonozal_VIII>well... bjarni did
10:31<dragonhorseboy>someone care to explain to saati? ^^^
10:32<Gonozal_VIII>never heard that word
10:32<saati>it's something that creates heat from electricity
10:32<Eddi|zuHause3>in germany, some wagons carried their own electric generator
10:32<saati>in hungary too
10:32<Eddi|zuHause3>to power the heating, when the engine didn't have electric heating
10:32<saati>i think they still have
10:32<Gonozal_VIII>graph indicates that it's something that writes...
10:32<dragonhorseboy>gonozal...must be different countries use different word for the same thing...
10:33<Eddi|zuHause3>the generators were driven by the wheels
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10:33<dragonhorseboy>gonozal..what do -you- call the metal arms thats used to collect electric from the overhead wires? ;)
10:33<Gonozal_VIII>used to?
10:33<Gonozal_VIII>well i call it stromabnehmer
10:34<dragonhorseboy>oh ok
10:34<Gonozal_VIII>metal and carbon
10:34<Eddi|zuHause3>in common language, they are often called "Bügel"
10:35<Gonozal_VIII>i'm near a factory that produces the carbon part
10:35<dragonhorseboy>hm well eddi you ever heard of steam+diesel (or steam+electric even) combo power being used on certain trains or not really?
10:35*dragonhorseboy is just asking
10:36<Gonozal_VIII>only diesel electric...
10:36<Gonozal_VIII>most common form of diesel engines
10:37<Slayerofrage>dragonboy: there were some steam diesal prototypes by LNER in the 1920's!!
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10:38<Gonozal_VIII>why steam diesel? what's the point?
10:38<dragonhorseboy>heh well..sometimes steam was the helpers on otherwise diesel express trains in some grades-heavy areas before
10:39<Slayerofrage>Gonozal: diesal back then was an unporven tech
10:39<Slayerofrage>So lots of different experiments were done with it
10:39<dragonhorseboy>and I think I've actually heard once of a dead GG1 being hauled by one of santa fe's best steam even straight into the chicago terminal too
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10:41<dragonhorseboy>either way brb to sort grfs
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10:41<nzvip>Is it possible in anyway to increment a void pointer?
10:42<Eddi|zuHause3>well, a lot of steam engines were refitted to be powered by oil instead of coal
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10:43<Slayerofrage>aye nothing as majestic as some of those old steam engines though
10:43<Slayerofrage>well the Deltic's were impressive
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10:43<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r12124 /trunk/src/ (newgrf.cpp newgrf.h newgrf_spritegroup.cpp):
10:43<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Codechange: Move newgrf-variables that are common to VarAction2 and Action7/9/D to their own function.
10:43<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix: Add some variables that were missing in one or both cases.
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10:45<Yorick>- /* TODO: usrerror() for errors which are not of an internal nature but caused by the user, i.e. missing files or fatal configuration errors. Post-0.4.0 since Celestar doesn't want this in SVN before. --pasky */
10:47<@Belugas>nzvip :
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10:49<nzvip>What do I do instead then, Belugas?
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10:54<@Belugas>whatever you want nzvip. I've shown you the result of a quick search I did for you regarding incrementing void pointer
10:55<Eddi|zuHause3>in what possible scenario would you want to modify void pointers?
10:55<Eddi|zuHause3>i mean, cast to something sensible before doing any operations
10:56<dragonhorseboy>damn hmm do anyone perhaps know of this landscape here?
10:56<dragonhorseboy>(ignore the dialogs :p )
10:56<Gonozal_VIII>terribly slow opening
10:57<Eddi|zuHause3>btw, how do you find the "coincidental" similarities between east german and west german engines?
10:58<Gonozal_VIII>hehe even same name
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10:58<Eddi|zuHause3>well, the naming scheme was probably an earlier invention...
10:59<Eddi|zuHause3>power (in hp) / 10
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11:01<Gonozal_VIII>the map is generated with the old map generator, not tgp
11:01<DaleStan><nzvip> Is it possible in anyway to increment a void pointer? <-- No. Given foo *bar;, and assuming appropriate widths (sizeof(int) == sizeof(foo*)) bar++; is the equivalent of bar=(foo*)(((int)bar) + sizeof(foo));. sizeof(void) is undef, therefore the operation of incrementing a void pointer is also undef.
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11:01<nzvip>I got that.
11:01<nzvip>Hm, Eddi|zuHause3.
11:01<nzvip>I have a function pointer.
11:01<nzvip>And its data is void.
11:01<nzvip>Well a void pointer.
11:03<dragonhorseboy>gonozal hmm so you saying some older openttd had their own landscape tiles rather than using ttdp's?
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11:05<DaleStan>Never never never modify a function pointer. Unless you're working in assembly, you're entirely too likely to end up with a pointer into the middle of an instruction. That works rather poorly on a good day.
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11:05<Gonozal_VIII>no, not the terrain sprites, the shape of that hill with the tunnel is typical for the old map generator
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11:08<dragonhorseboy>ohh heh
11:08<dragonhorseboy>I've never bothered with that newer mode in openttd as it seem to bog down into sometimes even freezing up so .. meh ^_^
11:09<Gonozal_VIII>now because of your question i wasn't fast enough to answer the 1000th "i'm using transfer and don't get any money" post
11:09<Eddi|zuHause3>oh, if you are ever having problems with remembering classes:
11:09<Eddi|zuHause3>the system is very easy, the bigger the number, the bigger the engine ;)
11:10<dragonhorseboy>eddi hehe...are the V160 and V200 just the same hydraulic w/V exhaust?
11:10<dragonhorseboy>never heard of a V160 before but it looks like same body shortened
11:11<Eddi|zuHause3>both are in the DBSetXL
11:11<dragonhorseboy>yeah? hmm...
11:12<Eddi|zuHause3>yes, it is basically a smaller version of the V200
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11:13<Eddi|zuHause3>of the V320 only one engine was built
11:14<Eddi|zuHause3>it was desinged for cargo traffic on unelectified main lines, but the DB plan was to electrify exactly those lines ;)
11:15<Eddi|zuHause3>basically, the V320 is two V160 glued together
11:18<dragonhorseboy>there was one particular uk diesel shunter I like...barely by the time they were being purchased the breching axe was already underway and so you can imagine that that was a hard short life....let me see if I can recall the class
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11:20<dragonhorseboy> class 14 it was (or nicknamed 'teddy bear' as I remember the magazine saying)
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11:32<Yorick>the new shore tiles seem to be flooding to above, when they can
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11:36<Eddi|zuHause3>but with all the similarities of the smaller engines, you wonder why these two are so different:
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11:44<hylje>windows seven
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11:46<dragonhorseboy>hm..almost done with grfs hopefully
11:46<dragonhorseboy>unless something stupid errors out :p
11:46<ln->ds9 4x01
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12:19<dragonhorseboy>how're you?
12:25<LordAzamath>I'm fine, you?
12:28<dragonhorseboy>doing okay...bit too long day of stupid grfs and forum threads tho hehehe
12:28<dragonhorseboy>taking break now already
12:28<Phantasm>Is it intentional that scrolling speed is affected by fast forward?
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12:47<UnderBuilder>how can I play simcity and openttd in the same game?
12:48<UnderBuilder>I mean, building cities and a transport company simultaneously
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12:50<Eddi|zuHause3>openttd &; sc2000 &?
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12:54<nappe1afk>Gonozal_VIII: hey... :)
12:54<Gonozal_VIII>got pm?
12:54<nappe1afk>Gonozal_VIII: I have that patch ready, and it works but the payment rates graphs have something seriously wrong...
12:54<nappe1afk>Gonozal_VIII: lol, I have not checked... hold on... :)
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12:55<Gonozal_VIII>max factor changed to 255 and >30 it displays the time in the status bar :-)
12:55<guru3>i was bored today:
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12:57<Gonozal_VIII>what's that guru?
12:57<guru3>a random php script that generates terrain of... some variety
12:57<nappe1afk>Gonozal_VIII: nice. :) If it's the one posted in thread, I used that as basis for my mods. :)
12:58<Gonozal_VIII>no i didn't post that anywhere
12:58<Gonozal_VIII>i think
12:58<nappe1afk>ookay... :)
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12:59<nappe1afk>well, I need to figure out what's wrong with the Cargo Payment Rates graph... it does not scale y-axis right somehow...
12:59<Gonozal_VIII>no idea about that graph
12:59<nappe1afk>otherwise I can send you the patch if you like to merge it... :)
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13:00<Gonozal_VIII>yes please
13:01<Gonozal_VIII>the height differences are not openttdish
13:04<nappe1>Gonozal_VIII: I think I just made a bit progress with the graph problem... I'll look into it a bit.
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13:07<@peter1138>You may celebrate, for I am back.
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13:07<Gonozal_VIII>why would that be a reason for celebration?
13:08<@peter1138>Well the kettle has just boiled.
13:09<@Belugas>and the kittne has been spoiled
13:09<Gonozal_VIII>boiling cattle? that's animal cruelty!
13:10<Phantasm>Belugas: Is it intentional that scrolling speed is affected by fast forward?
13:10<@peter1138>Fast forward affects everything.
13:10*Belugas nods
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13:12*LordAzamath doesn't nod, but agrees to atleast seem smart
13:13<Gonozal_VIII>that could be changed...
13:14<Gonozal_VIII>for that stuff that normaly happens every tick but shouldn't on ff...
13:16<Gonozal_VIII>add a counter, increase it by ms passed since last tick and only do that stuff if it's >30 then do % 30
13:17<@peter1138>Gonozal_VIII, it could, but the main game loop is actually in each video driver...
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13:18<Gonozal_VIII>don't quite understand that
13:19<@peter1138>The main game loop is in each video driver.
13:19<@peter1138>So to change that you need to change each video driver...
13:19<@peter1138>Not a hard job, just something of note, heh
13:22<Gonozal_VIII>in the beginning of the tick loop, ms are added to foo, every one of those functions starts with if(foo >= 30) { and in the end of the tick loop foo is moduloed with 30... shouldn't be too hard i think...
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13:35<@peter1138>Gonozal_VIII, lol, fast forward is funning :D
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13:35<@peter1138>I told it to do all gui updates only every 3oms
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13:36<Gonozal_VIII>and now?
13:36<@peter1138>so 1) fast-forwarding doesn't increase the frame-rate
13:36<@peter1138>and 2) there is even more spare time to run it faster
13:36<@peter1138>so my debug build on my old slow pc now runs an average game fast...
13:36<Gonozal_VIII>[19:27:59] Guest1295: all the graphical stuff could have that... would make ff a lot faster
13:36<Gonozal_VIII>[19:28:30] *** You have been disconnected.
13:37<@peter1138>yeah, but i actually did it
13:37<Gonozal_VIII>ah, not now, earlier?
13:37<@peter1138>no, just now
13:37<@peter1138>for only the SDL driver, though
13:38<@peter1138>there must be ways of doing more optimisation though
13:38<@peter1138>one problem is there could be so many tile updates between gui ticks that it forces a full screen refresh
13:38<Gonozal_VIII>everything that reacts on key press...
13:39<@Belugas>dalek, leave peter1138's mind, will you?
13:39<nappe1>peter1138: I have problem with graphs... the cargo payment rates graph does not scale the y-axis correctly somehow...
13:39<@peter1138>nappe1, how so?
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13:41<nappe1>peter1138: well, I did my own method to economy.cpp which returns scaled cargo payment rate (acording to daylength multiplier) if such option is selected from patches.
13:41<nappe1>I added that cuntion to everywhere where cargo_payment_rates[] is used and it is working in game.
13:42<nappe1>but in graphs, only curves are scaled, not the y-axis labels.
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13:43<nappe1>I did debug it and the code founds correctly max value and setups it with DParam, but then something weird happens when the label is rendered, as it always gets valua as it would be time running 1x
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13:44<@peter1138>The Y-axis is dynamic... hmm...
13:44<nappe1>that is happening at graph_gui.cpp lines 169-176
13:45<nappe1>peter1138: i can send you patch where is my changes, but I have not changed stuff at graph_gui.cpp as it seems that it should be working fine from code point of view.
13:48<@peter1138>an overflow, possibly?
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13:48<nappe1>I thought that too, so I went thru all my code and changed all variables to use Money as type... at least that did not change anything...
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13:51<nappe1>peter1138: I also tried (line 171) changing "DParam(1, y_label);" to "DParam(1, (y_label*2));" which resulted y*axis to double again.
13:51<@peter1138>are your values actually doubled?
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13:52<nappe1>peter1138: on y-axis scale, yes.
13:52<nappe1>peter1138: but that only ment that now they were 4 times bigger than they should been.. :D
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---Logclosed Tue Feb 12 13:55:20 2008
---Logopened Tue Feb 12 13:55:22 2008
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13:59<nappe1>peter1138: I have been trying to close all possibilities it being my own mistake, but as I do stuff with 3 different languages on each day (VB.NET and C# at work, C++/C as this on my free time) so it can be also my code...
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14:06<nappe1>I think I just isolated it to my own code. :D
14:07<nappe1>but it needs a bit more investigating...
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14:09<@Belugas>don't laugh, Slayerofrage. it takes a lot of courage for someone to find and admit his own errors
14:10<@Belugas>in fact,
14:10*Belugas congrats nappe1
14:10<nappe1>Belugas: not to me... :) I am part of demo scene and as you know demo scene's purpose is make quality crap. ;)
14:11<nappe1>Belugas: but yes, I do know ppl that are too sensitive to be coders. ;)
14:11*Belugas knows the feeling
14:11<Slayerofrage>nah im not laughing at nappe, it takes a lot of work to code, and a lot more to debug lol
14:12<@Belugas>you bet
14:12<@Belugas>debugging is so.. frustrating
14:12<Slayerofrage>damn straight it is
14:12<yorick>coding isn't so much work, (for me), debugging...yes
14:12<nappe1>peter1138: however, there is something interesting going on with those labels, as biggest y_label value is 208 and graph says 416. :D nevertheless the graphs still look fine, so if there's something wrong then there's two bugs. :D
14:12<@Belugas>but when you find out the reason, and yo fix it... damn... the day is brigher :D
14:12<Slayerofrage>especially when you spend most of your day working with crappy .net eww
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14:14<nappe1>Belugas: especially debuging is pain in the donkey when your code is not working and you debug it again and again and again, just to notice eight hours later that your work mate's adapter class is the problem, not your code. ;)
14:15<yorick>I've been busy with debugging the wrong source yesterday
14:16<yorick>I was debugging 0.6.0beta3 with a patch instead of trunk
14:16<@Belugas>nappe1, and what's even worse? The day is over and you still debug, but for otttd :D
14:16<@Belugas>kind of been sadistic lol
14:16<@Belugas>niuce too, yorick
14:17<yorick>means I've been downgrading yapp and pax destinations for beta3 before I found out
14:18<nappe1>yorick: well I was at work until 22:30 yesterday to fix one thingy... I got that fixed and tested as company policies say... well, came home and launched VC++ to just debug more code that is not mine which I decided to end at 3:30... at 9:00 this morning phone rangs and guys calls me that the thingy I tested to be working yesterday evening is borked... the words I said to that guy weren't really something you could print in project end report. ;
14:19<yorick>nice story :)
14:19<Slayerofrage>lol id bet those words would make a great quote though
14:19<nappe1>Belugas: sadistic? maybe... Addicted? maybe yes... Stupid? definetely. :D
14:21<nappe1>I think it went something like this: "How the Hell you already got that picture adapter fucked up? How on earth you were able to do that in hour, while it took 3 to code and test it! you fuckin' morons don't touch it anymore until I am back to office..."
14:21<@Belugas>insane, in a word ehehe
14:22<Slayerofrage>lol nappe
14:23<nappe1>and I don't usually curse that much, but awake like that... well that changes behavior a bit. ;)
14:23<Slayerofrage>bet ya get a nice cup of coffee for that one
14:23*Belugas noticed that nappe1 has about the same kind of relationship whit his colleagues
14:24*Belugas is known for having a very bad temper
14:24*nappe1 does his adapter classes in VB.NET just because everyone else does not understand it (aka. are C# guys) so it usually keeps them out changing my stuff. ;)
14:25<Slayerofrage>eww i hate .net
14:25<Slayerofrage>thats all we use at my place
14:27<nappe1>VB.NET is actually suprisingly good. it really gave a new life to Basic. again, C# should have never been called C... there's waaaayy too big differences. (like parameter passing as reference and no need of memory clean up.)
14:27<@Belugas>that's a danger, nappe1. I've done that too, and now, the said project has become one of the conerstone of the company. maening, i'm on the front line almost everyday
14:28<Slayerofrage>belugas: never a good place to be
14:28<Forked>or you could call it "job security"
14:29*Belugas nods
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14:30<@Belugas>anyway, payment processing might be a bitch, it is nonetheless a cool job to do
14:30<nappe1>Belugas: well, the fact is that there's only 3 of us and one comes with Java, so C# is natural choice to him, while other one comes from Basic, so he likes to do it, but unfortunately he does VB.NET as it would be QBasic... which is like trying to do Delphi with good old Pascal. so, basically this other basic guy can do some of the things, but design and planning are out of his limits.
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14:36<@Belugas>nice "plot"
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14:41<nappe1>peter1138: ah... I found the problem... it's definetely my problem. :)
14:44*HMage codes in C even in these days :)
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14:45<nappe1>HMage: it's not with language you use, but how you use it. :)
14:45<Gonozal_VIII>objects are cool
14:46<murray>but classes are the *definition* of cool
14:47<nappe1>I code or I have been coding with C, C++, C#, Java(little), VB, Basic, VB.NET, Pascal, Delphi, Coldfusion, PHP, Perl and Assembler. (also Poveray if you can count it's definition language as one...)
14:47<Gonozal_VIII>it's hard to have objects without classes^^
14:47<Gonozal_VIII>i can only do java...
14:48<Gonozal_VIII>so when it comes to memory stuff and typemagic in the openttd code i'm lost
14:50<HMage>regarding objects -- dunno, with 10 years of exposure to C++ I still prefer C. C++ has the only advantage of having functions inside structs. That eases stuff a little.
14:51*nappe1 giggles
14:51<HMage>I know I said something funny for you, OOP-oriented guys :)
14:51<nappe1>Gonozal_VIII: it works now... :) BUT...
14:51<Gonozal_VIII>there's always the but^^
14:52<nappe1>Gonozal_VIII: day length multiplier at 16, there's no use of transporting passenger longer than 180 days... :D you get zero income from them :D
14:53<nappe1>to be honest, I don't see that bad turn at all.. :)
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14:53<nappe1>[12022008 21:52] <nappe1> Gonozal_VIII: day length multiplier at 16, there's no use of transporting passenger longer than 180 days... :D you get zero income from them :D
14:53<nappe1>[12022008 21:53] <nappe1> to be honest, I don't see that bad turn at all.. :)
14:53<Gonozal_VIII>why would you transport passengers >180 days on daylength 16?
14:54<Gonozal_VIII>they could walk faster on their own^^
14:54<nappe1>Everyone here, hand up if you would like to travel in train more than 6 months a straight. :D
14:54<Gonozal_VIII>no need to copy... disconnecting all the time, logs open all teh time...
14:54<nappe1>ah. :)
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14:55<Gonozal_VIII>makes sense that stuff expires and you don't get anything for it then
14:56<Gonozal_VIII>especially with passengers^^
14:56<nappe1>Gonozal_VIII: I'll clean up the code and send the .patch file via forum private messaging later on... now I have to horry to meet one friend. (for those who are old enough: we are about to fix my Commodore 1581 3.5" disk drive. ;) )
14:57<Gonozal_VIII><-- not old enough
14:57<nappe1>peter1138: still around? I have quick fix for that cargo payment rates scaling...
14:57<mcbane2>commodore 1581? i know c64
14:58<@peter1138>nappe1, thought it was your code? :p
14:59<nappe1>peter1138: it was, sort of... :)
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15:00<Wolf01>mmm i updated the ECS industries, the coalmine don't produces anything and constantly popups a blank newspaper ò_O
15:01<Gonozal_VIII>there is no new version?
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15:02<nappe1>peter1138: graph_gui.cpp at line 133. That causes that 416 get always as max value. (because window x_axis_offset * 2 is always the highest_value :) )
15:02<+glx>Wolf01: don't upgrade ECS in running games
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15:02<dragonhorseboy>hey ;)
15:03<nappe1>peter1138: replace that with highest_value=0; and the graph scales nicely every time.
15:03<Wolf01>mmmh, i can't revert to the old ones
15:03<nappe1>but now I am offline an hour or so...
15:04<nappe1>see you everyone
15:04-!-nappe1 is now known as nappe1afk
15:04<@peter1138>nappe1afk, so your cargo payment rates are *less* than normal?
15:05<Gonozal_VIII>of course less
15:05<@peter1138>right :p
15:05<Gonozal_VIII>hmm no wait, makes no sense^^
15:05<nappe1afk>peter1138: yes. because trains are moving basically twice of the distance per day.
15:05<Slayerofrage>i get it lol
15:06<nappe1afk>peter1138: and factories are outputting twice amount of production in month
15:06<Gonozal_VIII>now you broke my thinky thing!
15:06<nappe1afk>peter1138: what used to be 2 days, is now one day :)
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15:07<Slayerofrage>Its the space time continium issue lol
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15:21<dragonhorseboy>slayerofrage you mean time paradox? :P
15:21*dragonhorseboy chuckles
15:22<Slayerofrage>damn you
15:22<dragonhorseboy>hehe no hard feeling ok? ;)
15:23<Slayerofrage>im trying to nail a really hard solo so its a space time continium issue at the min :(
15:23<Prof_Frink>han solo
15:24<Slayerofrage>guitar solo, but han solo is amusing lol
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15:34<Sacro>trying to nail han solo?
15:35<dragonhorseboy>I'll prefer to leave han solo alone knowing who he is ;)
15:35<Prof_Frink> if "Han Solo" wasn't euphemistic enough already
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16:08<dragonhorseboy>be back later :p
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16:18<@Belugas>One eye
16:18<@Belugas>Goes laughing
16:18<@Belugas>One Eye
16:19<@Belugas>Goes crying
16:19<@Belugas>Throught the trials
16:19<@Belugas>and trying
16:19<@Belugas>One life
16:19<@Belugas>so... moving lyrics :D
16:20<Prof_Frink>One of these days, I'm going to cut you into little pieces!
16:20<@Belugas>said Pink Floyd...
16:20<@Belugas>Pink Anderson or Floyd Council?
16:20<@Belugas>no... Rick Mason :D
16:21<Prof_Frink>gold star for Belugas
16:21<@Belugas>or was it Nick??
16:21<Prof_Frink>Nick, I think
16:22*Belugas thinks too
16:22<@Belugas>therefor, he is
16:22<Prof_Frink>wiki agrees
16:22*Belugas wants a slide guitar :S
16:24<Axamentia>Prof: Wiki will always agree.. if you dont like it, edit it that way lol
16:24<Axamentia>Belugas, as in a bottleneck slide?
16:25<@Belugas>bottleneck plus that special guitar on 4 legs
16:25<@Belugas>i guess it's called a pedal guitar not sure
16:26<@Belugas>or a pedal steell
16:26<@Belugas>yeah :D
16:27<@Belugas>it is in fact the guitar David Gilmour uses in One of These Days during the solo
16:27<@Belugas>man does it sounds good
16:27<Eddi|zuHause3>you could buy an air guitar off ebay!
16:28<@Belugas>really hard to tune :P
16:28<Axamentia>Ahh yeah
16:28<Axamentia>I want a chapman stick, 12 string tapping guitar :0
16:29<Axamentia>Check that out
16:29<Axamentia>Its sick tapping across 12 strings
16:30<@Belugas>hoho... is it on topic or off topic youtube link???
16:30<Axamentia>on topic of the conversation
16:36<Tefad>at the risk of getting kicked:
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16:44<@Belugas>got to go home
16:44<@Belugas>nght all
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17:01<Eddi|zuHause3> <--- err... wtf?
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17:05<@peter1138>that seems fairly pointless :)
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17:43<Phantasm>What significant updates are there in current nighty build compared to 0.6.0-beta3?
17:46<Eddi|zuHause3>svn log
17:46<Prof_Frink>Standard response #7: See the changelog
17:47<Phantasm>I'm too lazy to read over whole list of insignificant changes.. What I could use is a short listing of only the significant changes.
17:47<Eddi|zuHause3>svn log | grep Feature
17:47<Prof_Frink>grep the changelog for ^Feature thern
17:47<Prof_Frink>Eddi|zuHause3: Great minds...
17:48<Phantasm>Where can the svn log be found?
17:48<Prof_Frink>by the `svn log` command
17:49<Phantasm>I don't have svn, so would be hard to use such command.
17:50<Prof_Frink>alan@frinkpad:~/src/openttd/trunk$ svn log|grep Feature|wc -l
17:50<Prof_Frink>nice :)
17:50<Phantasm>Copy & paste it to pastebin for me to read? ;P
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18:12<Eddi|zuHause3>there is also
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18:41<Phantasm>Is there any way to make some key, like x, to cycle between 2 different saveable transparency settings?
18:41<Phantasm>The current on/off for all without any custimization is very bad.
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18:57<Eddi|zuHause3>you can ctrl+click to lock the setting for some groups, and ctrl+number for toggling individual groups
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19:17<+glx><Phantasm> What significant updates are there in current nighty build compared to 0.6.0-beta3? <-- a fatal bug fix
19:17<Phantasm>What kind of a bug?
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19:18<dragonhorseboy>hey ;)
19:18<+glx>a bug reported at least 10 times in bug tracker
19:21<Phantasm>Eddi|zuHause3: Thx. That however doesn't allow the freedom of cycling between 2 sets.
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19:23<Phantasm>In my case though there are 2 fixed settings and other are opposite on the 2 cases, so locking those 2 to the wanted ones and using x will luckily work.
19:23<dragonhorseboy>cycling 2 sets....?
19:24<Phantasm>As in if I want set 1 to be '00001111' and set 2 to be '00110000', it would be nice to be able to save such sets and toggle between them easily.
19:25<Eddi|zuHause3>well, provide a patch ;)
19:25<Phantasm>Currently it seems there isn't anything else than locking of settings + swapping every unlocked one.
19:25<Phantasm>Will not.
19:25<Phantasm>I will just whine, but not provide patches.
19:26<Phantasm>Would take too much work to properly learn some coding (well, I know some, but not really anything).
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19:29<Phantasm>And we have a channel full of willing coders. :)
19:32*Chrill codes Phantasm to Jupiter
19:34<dragonhorseboy>just had to ask - anyone use grfcodec in here?
19:37<dragonhorseboy>hm no? heh
19:39<@Belugas>some have used it, some do use it, some will use it
19:39<dragonhorseboy>well I'm just curious if its just grfcodec not thinking dos/win straight or is it normal to get certain pcx's with pink colours over some sprites?
19:39<+glx>you have no other choice if you want to make grfs
19:40<+glx>pink color is your fault :)
19:40<+glx>use -p
19:40<dragonhorseboy>funny that it works fine on many win grfs .. wonder whats up with certain openttd ones
19:41<dragonhorseboy>(as in some are fine, some shows the pinks)
19:41<+glx>we have some known color problems with openttdd.grf
19:41<dragonhorseboy>so I'll have to do as '-d -p 2 thisgrf.grf' instead I presume right?
19:41<+glx>if it's a win grf yes
19:42<dragonhorseboy>that works this time..thanks
19:44<@Belugas>ad will next time too
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19:46<dragonhorseboy>yeah..thats a bit funny tho...
19:46<dragonhorseboy>some openttd can be just -d .. others needs -p2 added
19:46<dragonhorseboy>but oh well who's going to ask when the pcx comes out fine anyway
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19:50<Phantasm>Oh yea, and sometimes new windows open partly outside the screen.
19:53<Phantasm>And it would be nice to be able to disable automatic appearance of the finiance screen when year changes.
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19:53<+glx><Phantasm> And it would be nice to be able to disable automatic appearance of the finiance screen when year changes. <-- already possible
19:54<+glx>patches settings
19:54<+glx>it's the third in interface tab
19:55<dragonhorseboy>hm allright got the fixed pcxs I needed for now anyway
19:55<Phantasm>Ah it is. Was too quick to check out if there is anything new there when going to nightly build from beta3.
19:55<dragonhorseboy>thanks a lot :p
19:55<Phantasm>It would also be nice that the changes to settings would be saved other than when quitting the game.
19:55<+glx>and it's not new
19:55<Phantasm>That is the 'permanent' settings modified before going to game.
19:56<Phantasm>Then I must have missed it both now and earlier. ;P
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19:58<Phantasm>Bah.. Only 151 000 € from a single trip on 9 wood wagons train on 1969.. And I went all the trouble making 1773 squares long route.. ;P
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20:02<Phantasm>Ahaha. I sure got a nice idea! Would be neat to be able to automatically do the following: Full load at station a, unload at station b, sell and buy a new one to start from station a.
20:03<dragonhorseboy>well I'm off for now
20:03<Phantasm>Would allow a track without any return route and on a very long route it might actually be worth it.. :)
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20:04<Axamentia>Phantasm wghy on earth would you do that?
20:04<Axamentia>It would be costly with engine cost, far outweighing income from goods
20:06<Phantasm>Axamentia: With XS 2400 (Diesel), designed 1965, the price drop on a 1773 squares route is about 20% of the profit.
20:07<Phantasm>With faster trains the price is higher, but so is speed.. Not sure how much it would change from that..
20:08<Phantasm>Anyway, the reason for that is to get the rating boost from having a new train there.
20:08<Phantasm>And also not having to make another track for returning trains.
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20:10<Phantasm>Assuming around 80% rating without the boost, 93% with new train would give 16.25% more goods to transport. Also it might affect the output increase on the primary industry to have outstanding rating instead of just excellent.
20:13<Phantasm>Also you save running costs of returning.
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20:24<Phantasm>Ok I did some calculations.. With CS 2400 (Diesel) the profit is both no matter if you use it normally or sell the train after one way trip. So effectively there would be 2 differencies.. First being not needing the other track for returning and second being the extra 16% cargo transported and thus 16% more cargo to transport off the factory in case it produces something.
20:25<Phantasm>And that is with engine + 9 wagons.
20:25<Phantasm>Now let's see for engine + 19 wagons.
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21:44<dragonhorseboy>hey again :p
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22:23<dragonhorseboy>hey ridayah
22:23<dragonhorseboy>how're you?
22:23<Ridayah>Fine. Setting up for the night before doing homework.
22:24<dragonhorseboy>heh ok
22:27<dragonhorseboy>what time is it for you?
22:28<Ridayah>Late at night.
22:28<dragonhorseboy>10:29pm too hm?
22:29<Ridayah>Ha, stop fishing for personal information.
22:32<dragonhorseboy>next time tell me an actual number hm? :p (rather than just "late at night")
22:32<Ridayah>I'm not interested in giving out data that could identify me, thanks :)
22:32<Ridayah>I don't have to tell you anything.
22:32<dragonhorseboy>umm...why are you online then?
22:33<Ridayah>Why are you so curious?
22:36<dragonhorseboy>1. there's nothing wrong with giving actual time otherwise 2. have to look up your whois and see whats the location to check with then
22:37<Ridayah>If you care that much, do it that way, but I won't give it away. :)
22:38<Ridayah>Now, I have things to do. Goodbye.
22:39*dragonhorseboy wonders why he's thinking 'giving time' is "identify me" but decides there's better people to talk with instead
22:40<dragonhorseboy>think I'm going to bed anyhow
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---Logclosed Wed Feb 13 00:00:20 2008