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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-02-13

---Logopened Wed Feb 13 00:00:20 2008
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00:34<Phantasm>There is some bug in cargo payments. 1773 long route is paying around one fourth of what it is supposed to be paying.
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00:35<Phantasm>Both comparing to shorter route in same game and other long (~800) routes on other games.
00:36<Phantasm>Using nightly build for windows downloaded from 6-7 hours ago.
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00:37<Phantasm>Is there some maximum length on a route and thus it ends up paying for much smaller distance than it is supposed to and thus the speed also goes much slower reducing the payment as well?
00:38<Gonozal_VIII>cargo packets have a maximum age of 255 days...
00:38<Phantasm>If it takes more than 255 days to travel to target the payment will go weird?
00:39<Phantasm>As it does take more than that for 1773 squares.
00:39<Gonozal_VIII>i don't know exactly what happens then
00:41<Gonozal_VIII>nappe is working on a cure for that illness
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03:05<darx>hi.. how do i construct stuff? i can't place stuff by clicking.
03:05<darx>i need to learn how to play this game. :-(
03:06<Gonozal_VIII>you have to select what you want to build first...
03:06<darx>i did that
03:06<darx>from the menu on the top and the cursor changes to indicate what is selected
03:06<darx>then what?
03:06<Gonozal_VIII>can't build in pause without cheat
03:08<darx>also how do i remove some thing that i've just build?
03:09<Gonozal_VIII>dynamite removes everything and the bulldozer thing active together with a build tool removes only that
03:11<darx>ok i just constructed a rail section complete with depots now how do i add a train and start moving goods around?
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03:14<darx>Guest1363: how do it do that ^^
03:14<Gonozal_VIII>what part of it?
03:14<Gonozal_VIII>ah... stupid disconnection
03:15<Gonozal_VIII>you need to build stations near the source and destination and connect them and buy a train in a depot
03:15<darx>do i have to place a train or would that be automatic?
03:15<darx>i can't find a train
03:15<Gonozal_VIII>click on the depot
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03:20<darx>ok.. i added a few bogeys and an engine.. now its running without any orders. how do i add orders?
03:20<Gonozal_VIII>click on the train
03:21<Gonozal_VIII>see the yellow broken arrow?
03:21<Gonozal_VIII>that's where the orders are
03:22<darx>its all greyed out except the go to
03:22<Gonozal_VIII>then use that ;-)
03:22<darx>whats it for?
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03:23<Gonozal_VIII>click there and then on a station
03:23<Gonozal_VIII>then you ordered the train to go to that station ;-)
03:24<darx>yeah but the carts are empty
03:25<Gonozal_VIII>the station starts to recieve cargo after the first train was there
03:25<Gonozal_VIII>you can use full load to avoid letting the train run around empty
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06:20<SmatZ>hello :)
06:23<Gonozal_VIII>sooo wazzup?
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06:25<SmatZ>nothing interesting :-x
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06:34<Gonozal_VIII>automatic reconnect takes almost 10 minutes..
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06:46<Eddi|zuHause2>solution is easy: do not disconnect that often ;)
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06:47<Gonozal_VIII>as if that was my choice :P
06:49<Eddi|zuHause2>everything is your choice
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07:07<yorick>something seems to happen when closing the newgrf selection window...
07:07<Gonozal_VIII>yes, the window is gone
07:07<yorick>no, it applies everythings
07:07<yorick>like when clicking on apply
07:08<yorick>something that has effect on a grf'd tiltle screen
07:08<yorick>all graphics get reverted no normal and animation stops
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07:16<yorick>it should not execute ReloadNewGRFData when on main screen
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07:23<@peter1138>It's something to do with town name support...
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07:35<yorick> <-- this patch will hopefully fix my problem
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07:43<Yorick|AFK>peter1138 or trunkanizer: see above ^^ :-)
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07:47<@peter1138>That will break town names.
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07:58<@peter1138>Hi Tekky
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08:01<Tekky>Hi everyone :)
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08:16<Yorick>hi michi_cc , tekky
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08:51<Yorick>Peter1123: explain to me how that would break town naming...
08:52<@peter1138>There is some magic involved so that NewGRF town names can appear in the town name drop down list. Obviously that has to happen before a game is started.
08:53<Gonozal_VIII>start screen doesn't have any town names
08:54<Yorick>well...find me a way to stop the newgrf settings dialogue from breaking the intro game when clicked on apply
08:54<Gonozal_VIII>never broke it for me
08:55<Yorick>a intro game with grfs ;)
09:00<@peter1138>Just have an intro game without grfs :p
09:01<Yorick>not an option
09:01<Yorick>looks ugly :r
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09:18<+glx>Yorick: it's needed for actionF grfs
09:18<+glx>they must be loaded in intro, and saved in running games too
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09:22<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r12129 /trunk/src/ (11 files in 2 dirs): -Change [FS#1759]: simplified patch settings for pathfinders (Yorick)
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09:22<Yorick>thanks SmatZ!
09:23<SmatZ>nice patch :)
09:24<Gonozal_VIII>what version did you use?
09:24<Gonozal_VIII>the one i changed?
09:24<SmatZ>Gonozal_VIII: well, I used that one you changed,but I had to do further changes...
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09:25<Gonozal_VIII>can't find the change online.. where is that?
09:25<Yorick>it has diffs
09:26<Gonozal_VIII>4 hours ago...
09:26<Gonozal_VIII>ah there it is
09:26<Yorick>he changed the if-else structure you changed in openttd.cpp
09:27<Gonozal_VIII>the ( ) are needed?
09:27<Gonozal_VIII>didn't use that ? : stuff much
09:28<Yorick>_patches.pathfinder_for_ships = (_patches.new_pathfinding_all ? VPF_NPF : VPF_OPF);
09:28<Gonozal_VIII>yes, additional ()
09:28<@peter1138>they're not needed but sometimes make things clearer
09:29<Gonozal_VIII>ok :-)
09:31<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r12130 /trunk/src/lang/ (38 files in 2 dirs): -Cleanup (r12129): remove now unused strings from all language files
09:32<Yorick>yes, that is needed too, I found out during compiling the new langfiles
09:32<Yorick>it gives a warning about strings that dont exist in the master file
09:33<Gonozal_VIII>isn't there a easy way to change all lang files in one go?
09:33<Yorick>maybe with some script
09:34<+glx>grep or perl :)
09:34<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm yes... a script that only reads the left side.. that's the same everywhere so it can just do the same everywhere :-)
09:35<SmatZ>for i in *.txt unfinished/*.txt ; do mv $i ttt ; cat ttt | grep -v $1 > $i ; rm ttt ; done
09:35<SmatZ>though it is not fully automatic
09:35<SpComb>cat abuse
09:35<Gonozal_VIII>no idea what that is^^
09:35<Gonozal_VIII>but i like cats
09:35<SpComb>and you could stick the rm ttt outside of the loop or something
09:36*SmatZ isn't skilled in scripting :)
09:36<Gonozal_VIII>what language is that anyways?
09:36<@peter1138>perl -pi -e 's/STR_foo.*\n//g' *.txt
09:38<Gonozal_VIII>why didn't belugas use that to change that varname in every file yesterday?
09:38<Yorick>he was not @ home
09:38<@peter1138>probably Belugas does not have perl, heh
09:38<Yorick> if I do...
09:39<Forked>dot match!
09:39<Forked><-in the lead
09:39<Yorick>I know someone that believes you can make programs out of perl :-P
09:39*keyweed raises hand
09:40<keyweed>you can run entire isps on perl
09:40<Yorick>but they don't have a gui, do they?
09:40<+glx>who needs gui?
09:40<Forked>hmm.. asciittd
09:41<Forked>====== <- guess what it is
09:41<keyweed>command line openttd. ... *ponders*
09:41<Gonozal_VIII>how do you get/use perl?
09:41<Yorick>download activeperl from activestate (windows)
09:41<keyweed>most os'es come with perl
09:42<+glx>windows comes with IE
09:42<Yorick>[15:41] <Yorick> download activeperl from activestate (windows)
09:42<Yorick>and windows media player
09:42<+glx>can't have anything :)
09:42<Gonozal_VIII>that's not free...
09:42<Yorick>it is
09:42<keyweed>perl is free
09:42<Yorick>only the enterprise edition isn't
09:43<Gonozal_VIII>i see only free trial stuff there
09:44<keyweed>i don't understand windows users.
09:44<Gonozal_VIII>ah there
09:45<Yorick>keyweed: I'm not a volunteer, but this PC came with windows, and I can't install something else
09:46<Gonozal_VIII>circling around on that site for some time now, click click click, i'm back where i started
09:46<Yorick>laptops usually lack linux drivers
09:46<keyweed>Yorick: can't as in "not allowed" or "unable to" or "physicly impossible" ?
09:46<keyweed>Yorick: drivers ?!@?!@!?1
09:46<keyweed>what would you need drivers for ?????
09:46*keyweed cries loudly and runs for the hills
09:47<Yorick>as in "not allowed", drivers are needed for laptops with builtin webcams, WLAN, keyboards, touchpads, do I need to say more?
09:48<keyweed>ever tried burning an ubuntu live cd to see if it works?
09:48<Yorick>Gonozal_VIII: <-- I recommend the 5.8 thingy, because their teapot thingy is broken
09:48<keyweed>Yorick: you should
09:48<Yorick>no DVD burners here
09:48<keyweed>very likely everything will "just work"
09:48<Gonozal_VIII>asi msi :S
09:49<Yorick>try MSI
09:49<Gonozal_VIII>what does asi and msi mean?
09:49<Yorick>the asi package is some scripted buggy installer
09:49<Gonozal_VIII>and wtf is a teapot?^^
09:50<Yorick>teapot is the utility they want you to download packages with from version 5.10
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09:53<dragonhorseboy>hey ;)
09:53<Yorick>don't ask me how I know these things...
09:54<dragonhorseboy>so how're both of you today?
09:54<Yorick>my patch got trunkanized :)
09:55<Gonozal_VIII>head hurts, didn't sleep too well
09:55<dragonhorseboy>ic gonozal
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09:56<dragonhorseboy>well not much for me otherwise..just a typical morning for now
09:56<dragonhorseboy>leaving in a bit less than a hour for doctor just to ask some things tho
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10:00<Yorick>download time estimate for ubuntu: 3 minutes :O
10:00<Yorick>2.40 mb/s
10:02<Yorick>this internet connection finally seems to be usefull for once
10:03<ln->is that mb or Mb or MB?
10:03<Gonozal_VIII>milibyte :D
10:04<dragonhorseboy>Mega Bites :p
10:04<Yorick>if ubuntu appears to be 695 mb using that scale
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10:07<Yorick>I think its megabyte
10:07<Gonozal_VIII>milibit is funnier
10:08<Yorick>I would be all happy if it was only 700 kb/s...
10:09<Eddi|zuHause2>i would be happy if i had 70kb/s
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10:10<Gonozal_VIII>had ~300 kb/s today with that terminator thingy
10:11<Yorick> its gonna merge the file from 6 to one...
10:12*Yorick has finished and resets other downloads
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10:32<@Belugas>[09:38] <Gonozal_VIII> why didn't belugas use that to change that varname in every file yesterday? <--- Indeed i was not at home and indeed i do not have perl and indeed i do not know how to program perl. Nor do i want to :S
10:33<Gonozal_VIII>hi belugas
10:34<dragonhorseboy>going for now so bye till later ;)
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10:47<Yorick>the 135 degree turns for aircraft are still there ^^
10:47<Yorick>but now in 2 steps :D
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10:53<@DorpsGek>Yorick: Invalid arguments for _commit.
10:53<@DorpsGek>Yorick: Commit by smatz :: r12129 /trunk/src (11 files in 2 dirs) (2008-02-13 14:21:36 UTC)
10:53<@DorpsGek>Yorick: -Change [FS#1759]: simplified patch settings for pathfinders (Yorick)
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11:17<Eddi|zuHause2>you wanna just look at it for one more time or are you going to brag about it, too? :p
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11:34<fjb>How is prospecting a new ore mine working? Does the game chose a random tile and then looks if it can build the mine there?
11:34<Yorick>and if it can't, it finds another random tile, I think
11:35<Eddi|zuHause2>same as generating a random industry
11:36<fjb>I tried it some times now and I never got a new mine, only wasted the mony. My wolrd is hilly, that makes it difficult.
11:37<Eddi|zuHause2>it should flatten the land
11:37<Eddi|zuHause2>but prospecting has a random chance that it will fail completely, before trying to build an industry
11:38<fjb>Oh, the I hit that chance.
11:49<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r12131 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r3374): with mammoth trains disabled, maximum train length was limited to 9
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11:58<fjb>Balancing the ECS industies is not easy.
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12:15<Sacro>SmatZ: surely that's the point of having mammoth trains disabled?
12:17<Eddi|zuHause2>Sacro: no, the limit is 10
12:17<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause2: ah
12:20*Yorick had to puzzle to match the names
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12:24<ln->buenas tardes
12:27<Eddi|zuHause2>ln-: it's called tardis ;)
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12:54<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r12132 /trunk/src/ (roadveh_cmd.cpp ship_cmd.cpp train_cmd.cpp): -Cleanup: convert pathfinder selection from if/else to switch/case at many places
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13:06<Wolf01>hello boys
13:07<hylje>hi dear
13:07<ln->hello, admiral
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13:11<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12133 /trunk/src/vehicle_gui.cpp: -Fix: Vehicle sorting by max speed did not work properly for trains. Instead of trying to work it out again, just use the cached values...
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14:04*LordAzamath want's pikkabird to answer a PM
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14:07<Eddi|zuHause2>ma'n thi's p'oor a'p'os'tr'o'p'y'
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14:08<LordAzamath>Eddi|zuHause2: You're alright? You sound kinda.. apostrophy..
14:09<Axamentia>is that poor as socially deprived, or poor as in bad though? or maybe even both, an apostrophy for the socially deprived perhaps?? lol
14:10<Eddi|zuHause2>that sentence does not make any sense
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14:12<Axamentia>it does
14:12<Sacro>LordAzamath: want is?
14:12<LordAzamath>actually has
14:12<@Belugas>naa.a.. ofrace
14:13<LordAzamath>now happy?
14:13<Axamentia>hey belugas i saw one of your laptop guitars in manchester today for £60!! I got to play with :)
14:14<Axamentia>Twas slightly wierd with no neck to slide teh fretboard though
14:14*LordAzamath wonders why
14:16<@Belugas>i can imagine, Axamentia :)
14:17<@Belugas>you've got a lead on me, never touched it before
14:18<Axamentia>I was trying to work some chords out, but you muscle memory is programmed to come from behind the fretboard, wheras this is over the top, so it was disorientating
14:18<Axamentia>Suppose its more like tapping
14:19<@Belugas>but somhow, i think it;s more realted to slide guitare
14:19<@Belugas>i doubt chords are to be used
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14:20<Axamentia>aye true
14:20<@Belugas>see you
14:21<Axamentia>the guy demostrating though was managing, some open e's, and g's on it though lol
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14:24<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r12134 /trunk/src/ (14 files in 3 dirs):
14:24<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Change: count the number of ticks a vehicle was running this day to calculate running cost
14:24<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#1739]: vehicle profit is now counted with 8bit fract, so it is now shown properly in the vehicle details window
14:27<@Belugas>hoo... you had a demo :)
14:27<@Belugas>fun fun
14:27<@Belugas>seems i have to revise my perception of the instrument
14:27<@Belugas>FTP'ing a deployment is alwasy shitty
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14:55<Eddi|zuHause2>soo... vehicles have now 0 running costs while loading etc.?
14:57<@peter1138>Not as far as I know...
14:57<Eddi|zuHause2>then what does this change do?
14:57<@DorpsGek>Yorick: Commit by smatz :: r12134 /trunk/src (14 files in 3 dirs) (2008-02-13 19:24:40 UTC)
14:57<@DorpsGek>Yorick: -Change: count the number of ticks a vehicle was running this day to calculate running cost
14:57<@DorpsGek>Yorick: -Fix [FS#1739]: vehicle profit is now counted with 8bit fract, so it is now shown properly in the vehicle details window
14:58<Yorick>loading == running, I think
14:58<@peter1138>Yeah, running means "not manually stopped"
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14:58<Eddi|zuHause2>ah, the message wasn't exactly clear about that
14:59<Yorick>but I think that I actually think that I might be thinking that I'm thinking too much
14:59<@Belugas>i think so too
15:00<Yorick>you're wise to thing so
15:03<SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause2: the running cost was calculated as if the vehicle was running all 74 ticks if it was running at new day start
15:03<SmatZ>so you could (theoretically) have 0 running cost if you stopped the vehicle before day end, and started it the next tick...
15:04<Yorick>that requires timing...
15:05<hylje>apparently this PBS a bit.. acts up if a vehicle breaks down
15:05<hylje>i just got a vehicle broken down just after reserving a path
15:05<hylje>then another train came and crashed it
15:05<Yorick>I suppose it wasn't tested with breakdowns
15:06<hylje>using its very location as its path, no less
15:07<Eddi|zuHause2>why would breaking down unreserve the path?
15:07<Eddi|zuHause2>stopping doesn't...
15:09<hylje>i dunno, but it just did
15:09<@peter1138>There are a few ... issues :)
15:10<hylje>apparently one of the crashed trains left a permanent reservation
15:10<Yorick>I think its the speed the trains slows down with, it calls some kind of function that is used when going to station too, and that is the function the pbs uses to unreserve the path(just a theory)
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15:22<White_Rabbit>why does OTTD freeze for a few seconds every time I close the 'NewGRF settings' window?
15:22<SmatZ>White_Rabbit: do you remove or add a newgrf?
15:23<White_Rabbit>I close it without making a change
15:25<+glx>it applies them
15:25<+glx>in case there are action 0F
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15:31<White_Rabbit>I was asking because there are a lot of multiplayer games that uses newGRFs, and OTTD freezes for about 3 seconds every time I close the window. isn't it unnecessary to apply them when you look at other people's newGRF settings?
15:32<@peter1138>It is there, yes.
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15:53<Tekky>hylje: I don't think the crash took place due to the breakdown, at least I have never encountered such a bug. I rather think the crash took place for a different reason, related to a train getting lost. The most frequent cause of a train getting lost is if it tries to service at a depot but fails, because it has already reserved too much track in another direction.
15:54<hylje>that could be it
15:55<Tekky>hylje: I suggest you keep the last savegame where this happens and then see whether it still happens in the upcoming new version, which - according to michi_cc - will be released in the next few days.
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16:00<Tekky>I am periodically checking the forum thread whether a new version of YAPP (=PBS) has been released, because I cannot wait for the new version :)
16:00<hylje>its certainly neat at the moment
16:00<hylje>just trying it out and getting a feel of its stuff
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16:00<Eddi|zuHause2>Tekky: subscribe to the thread, then you will get any updates as email ;)
16:01<Tekky>ah, thanks for the advice :)
16:04<Tekky>hylje: I suggest you disable train servicing until the next version, that should get rid of most train crashes in YAPP.
16:04<hylje>i did :)
16:04<hylje>fortunately i had enough monies to replace all those trains
16:09<Tekky>is anyone here familiar with SimCity 4 Rush Hour/Deluxe (the expansion, not SimCity 4 vanilla)? I really like the tool in that game that allows you to see where all your residents go to work and which route they take. I think it would be great if this could be implemented into OpenTTD somehow. This system in SimCity 4 Rush Hour seems better to me than the current passenger destinations patch.
16:09<hylje>it'd involve a more fine-grained cargo model
16:09<hylje>(applied to passengers and mail)
16:12*peter1138 doesn't play any games other than OpenTTD...
16:14<Tekky>I think that for every tile with a house on it, OpenTTD should store where the person living in the house goes to work. That way, passenger routes would be from tile to tile instead of from station to station. Currently, in the "new passenger destinations" patch, passenger routes are from station to station, aren't they?
16:14<@peter1138>I believe so.
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16:17<Eddi|zuHause2>tile to tile makes much more sense
16:17<Eddi|zuHause2>then people can also switch companies if the stations are close
16:20<hylje>tile to tile would involve a bit higher resolution towns
16:20<hylje>a single tile represents such a large set of people that it should have several folks going to work somewhere
16:21<hylje>and then we come to having places to work
16:21<hylje>which can easily made another beast
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16:22<Tekky>Eddi: Yes, that would be great. Companies would fight for passengers and would try to offer better (e.g. faster) routes than the competition.
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16:23<Tekky>Eddi: that would also make multiplayer games more interesting :)
16:23<Tekky>hi planetmaker
16:24<hylje>Tekky: station ratings kinda do that already
16:24<hylje>Tekky: but the poor folk don't get a choice to where to go, be it intra-city or intercity
16:24<Tekky>and if the trains are timetabled, the passengers will be able to plan their routes more easily.
16:27<Tekky>hylje: yes, since passengers don't care where they go, players have no incentive to offer fast intercity passenger routes.
16:33<fjb>The latest passenger destinations patch already makes a huge difference to the plain game. You have to offer a good intra-city service or you don't get enough passengers for the inter-city lines. Not just building two airports and getting rich anymore.
16:34<Tekky>fjb: Ah, I didn't know that.... I guess I should look a bit further into that patch.
16:35<Tekky>hylje: Yes, you are right that OpenTTD would have to be scaled to offer more tiles per city.
16:36<Tekky>hylje: But I think this is desirable, if you want to also build a good inter-city service.
16:36<fjb>Try it out, it really changes the game. When you include some industry sets like PBI or ECs and the game starts to get challanging.
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16:52<fjb>Haha, verry funny...
16:56<Sacro>nice theft of the THX logo
16:56<Sacro>that'll get a DMCA takedown
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17:33<dragonhorseboy>hey vikthor
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17:34<dragonhorseboy>'re both of you?*
17:35<Roujin>if i encode a ground sprite, what should the offset be?
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17:37<Roujin>should it be the uppermost pixel? or the leftmost pixel..?
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17:40<Roujin>guess i have to try eh?
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17:40<@peter1138>The 'top-corner' pixel.
---Logclosed Wed Feb 13 17:46:21 2008
---Logopened Wed Feb 13 17:53:08 2008
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---Logclosed Wed Feb 13 18:00:04 2008
---Logopened Wed Feb 13 18:00:28 2008
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18:00<fjb>Yes, why not?
18:01<@peter1138>I think the question is what do you mean by heavy load.
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18:01<Eddi|zuHause2>doesn't look very heavy to me...
18:02<fjb>Ah, I didn't understand that question.
18:02<dragonhorseboy>looks like light or maybe light-medium to me
18:02<Eddi|zuHause2>some of my normal signalled stations took more than that
18:03<@peter1138>Stupid screenshot... it won't scroll :(
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18:03<fjb>Eddi|zuHause2: Three train in the same signal block, tho leavin in the same direction, one entering from that direction?
18:03<fjb>peter1138: Yeah, I know that problem...
18:05<Maedhros>good night
18:05<Tekky>good night, Maedhros
18:05<Eddi|zuHause2>it obviously wasn't the same signal block back then ;)
18:05<Wezz6400>what the heck, yet another package of patches o.O
18:05<fjb>Good night Maedhros
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18:05<Eddi|zuHause2>but yes, similar situations were possible
18:05<fjb>That station is small, but it has three lines crosiing there, two of them with many trains and you get no jam.
18:05<@peter1138>Well, it's not that impressive really because that is the point of it, to be honest ;)
18:06<@peter1138>Looks nice though.
18:07<fjb>It is easy to have many trains going into and out of a big station with many platforms, ottdcoop shows that. But it is far more difficult to get that many trains through a small station with only four platforms.
18:08<Roujin>little coding question
18:08<Roujin>ROAD_NONE = 0U, ///< No road-part is build
18:08<Roujin>what does the U in 0U mean?
18:10<Roujin>i wonder though why it is used there oO
18:10<Roujin>night peter
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18:48<Gonozal_VIII>can't understand that.. main_gui.cpp and rail_gui.cpp always grow newlines at the end
18:49<Roujin>i had that sometimes as well
18:49<Roujin>well it doesn't break anything does it?
18:50<Gonozal_VIII>newline doesn't break anything... but it's annoying
18:50<Gonozal_VIII>i remove them manually from the patch files all the time and they keep reappearing
18:50<Roujin>hmmm... maybe it's got to do with the amount of lines a patch alters?
18:51<Roujin>somewhere at the beginning of each file block, it says how many lines there should be, and even if you remove the +[empty line], it will fill the file up with empty lines so that number fits?
18:51<+glx>Gonozal_VIII: removing them is not enough, you may need to modify the chunk header
18:52<Gonozal_VIII>removed the header too glx
18:52<+glx>don't remove the header
18:52<+glx>it is needed to patch
18:52<Gonozal_VIII>there was nothing else
18:53<Roujin>then do the following:
18:53<Roujin>apply it to vanilla source
18:53<+glx>remove the line and rediff
18:53<Roujin>revert the file that had the newline added at the end
18:53<Roujin>create a new patch
18:54<Roujin>should work imho...
18:54<+glx>and slap the patch author for not checking his diff
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18:56<Gonozal_VIII>keeps adding newlines at the end of those files
18:57<+glx>it shouldn't
18:57<Gonozal_VIII>i know that^^
19:00<Gonozal_VIII>i apply it, create a new patch and it looks like that:
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19:01<Gonozal_VIII>and no, i didn't add newlines :P
19:02<+glx>I applied it and no newline added
19:02<+glx>what are you using to apply?
19:03<Gonozal_VIII>tortoise merge
19:03<Roujin>well g'nite, and good luck blasting those newlines ;)
19:03<+glx>that may be the problem
19:03<+glx>I use patch and it works as intended
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19:03<Gonozal_VIII>could the problem also be that the original files end with lots and lots of newlines?
19:04<Gonozal_VIII>confuses the patch^^
19:04<+glx>shouldn't matter
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19:21<NukeBuster>Anyone of you guys familliar with GCC? I have searched the internet for an error but can't seem to find a solution....
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19:39<Tekky>I'm afraid I've not used GCC much....
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21:14<fjb>Does the ai do random terra forming?
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21:15<+glx>not random
21:15<Gonozal_VIII>looks random
21:15<+glx>it just tries to find a flat path
21:15<Gonozal_VIII>at random^^
21:16<fjb>Hm, a flat path look different. It builds almost mountains, three tiles higher than the things it tries to connect.
21:17<fjb>And it does that in all directions aroud the objects.
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21:17<fjb>It terraformed away half of the rain forest.
21:18<fjb>Oh, four tiles higher. That can't give a flat path.
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21:22<Gonozal_VIII>it tries to alter rainfall patterns to prevent its new track masterpiece from being flooded
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21:24<fjb>Ah, that might be the explanation.
21:25<Gonozal_VIII>also it doesn't like trees
21:25<fjb>It still looks random. Even almost flat areas are not any kind of flat anymore. Small bumps and holes all over the place.
21:26<fjb>It really hates rain forest.
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21:27<SmatZ>AI does "do_some_terraform" if it cannot find any way to go :)
21:30<fjb>It constantly terraforms some langer parts of the map. Even I don't know where to build a way anymore in that areas. It wouldn't have been that hard before.
21:31<SmatZ>AI does random terraform if the tile is not flat... though that is pretty useless if it is in a hilly terrain
21:31<Gonozal_VIII>well... ai sucks
21:32<Gonozal_VIII>don't play with ai ;-)
21:32<SmatZ>AI put some effort into making it a bit better :-( Not invalid vehicles anymore, "big" aircraft on small airports, not trying to build road thoughr depot or tunnel entry :)
21:33<fjb>It is hilly. Now it made mountains around most industries and towns. Everything sits in a hole now.
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21:33<Gonozal_VIII>[03:32:24] <Gonozal_VIII> until noai branch is ready and in trunk and there are some new ais..
21:33<SmatZ>fjb: hmm the more hilly, the worse... the algorithm tries to level the land (make it flat), but with hilly terrain, it fails...
21:34<Gonozal_VIII>been disconnected again...
21:34<fjb>Road through the depot is classic. Also building a bridge over that part of the raod that it would have nedded to connect to.
21:34<SmatZ>road through depot shouldn't happen anymore :)
21:34<SmatZ>but yes, that bridges everywhere are stupid
21:34<fjb>It really isn't that hilly. Or at least it wasn't.
21:34<SmatZ>then it's worse than I thought :-P
21:35<fjb>It made mountains.
21:35<Gonozal_VIII>hehe, new form of map generator, take some flat land and let the ai mess it up^^
21:35<SmatZ>it "randomly" terraforms land to make it flat
21:35<fjb>Now even I don't know where to put a station this early in the game. I would need milions to pay for the terraforming.
21:36<fjb>Looks like recursive randomnes.
21:36<SmatZ>maybe building on slopes should be allowed for AI
21:37<fjb>I should try to get everytile to the same hight, not every tile to a different hight. :-)
21:38<SmatZ>then it would make hilly map flat in a moment :-D
21:38<fjb>And it terraforms away the fields...
21:38<Gonozal_VIII>fields come back
21:38<fjb>Now it made the hilly map mountainous.
21:38<fjb>Do they come back in tropic?
21:39<fjb>Looks like on the moon now.
21:39<Gonozal_VIII>i don't play tropic...
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21:41<Gonozal_VIII>!seen nappe*
21:41<Gonozal_VIII>@seen nappe*
21:41<@DorpsGek>Gonozal_VIII: nappe* could be nappe1afk (1 day, 6 hours, 35 minutes, and 5 seconds ago) or nappe1 (1 day, 6 hours, 37 minutes, and 52 seconds ago)
21:45<fjb>Now it terraforms away the tiles under my mouse which I just had terraformed.
21:45<Gonozal_VIII>bad ai^^
21:46<fjb>And it terraforms that fast that I have no time to change the toll for building anything there.
21:46<Gonozal_VIII>slap it
21:46<fjb>Give me a hammer.
21:47<Gonozal_VIII>fish is best for slapping
21:47*Gonozal_VIII slaps ai around a bit with a large trout
21:48<fjb>Hm, does the ai really try to level the land? It looks like a kind of game of life.
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21:48<Gonozal_VIII>it wants to be alive!
21:50<fjb>It will be dead really soon. I think I have to start the game over. No chance tu build any railway or street.
21:51<Gonozal_VIII>so it did a good job
21:51<Gonozal_VIII>it never wanted to build anything, only tried to sabotage you ;-)
21:52<Axamentia>try disabling AI rails and it doesnt terraform
21:52<fjb>It is really stupid. It tried to connect two pionts which are on the same level. But it rose a four tiles high mountain in between and than gave up.
21:53<Axamentia>though sometimes its nice to have the ai supposedly challenge you with rails, but its networks are genarlly laughable anyway
21:53<fjb>Ai usually makes the map a bit more colorful.
21:53<Axamentia>when i cant be bothered i just disable rails then the ai sticks to airports, buses and ships
21:54<Axamentia>colorful and congested with its rail networks that double back on themselves several times lol
21:54<Gonozal_VIII>like the civ 4 ai... if it can't kill you with a stack of 150 cavalry, 100 infantry, 100 artillery and lots of other stuff, it starts to throw nukes until the planet crumbles and everybody loses^^
21:55<Axamentia>the civ ai was always amusing
21:55<Axamentia>Like the ai in civ3 which i still play which starts pointless wars, when your ten times bigger than it lol
21:55<SmatZ>I played Civilization a lot
21:55<SmatZ>I mean, the original Civilization :)
21:56<SmatZ>it was pretty hard
21:56<Axamentia>Lol yeah i remember the dos version, used to play that and the orginal railroad tycoon
21:56<fjb>Civ III ai wasn't that bad. Sound it got worse in Civ 4.
21:56<Axamentia>Oh and colonization
21:56<Gonozal_VIII>it managed to destroy the planet in a single turn^^
21:56<Gonozal_VIII>more than 100 nukes launched
21:57<fjb>I never saw the Civ III ai do that.
21:57<SmatZ>once I found where the player money are stored in the savegame, the Civilization was no challenge for me :-D
21:58<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r12135 /trunk/src/ (bridge_gui.cpp gui.h rail_gui.cpp road_gui.cpp):
21:58<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Codechange: Road and rail bridge selection windows were identical apart the caption. So remove one window definition and set manually the caption accordingly.
21:58<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Codechange: prepare the "type" of bridge parameter only once, at the beginning of the selection process. Makes less magic around.
21:58<Gonozal_VIII>ch34t0r :P
21:58<fjb>SmatZ: You don't have to cheat...
21:58<Axamentia>heh civ3 i remember if you asked to ai to give 999999999999999 gold per turn for 1 gold lump sum it would
21:58<SmatZ>yeah, I was really excited by all these things I could hexedit :) Civilization, Stunts, TestDrive, TransportTycoon... :-)
21:59<@Belugas>what's taht?
21:59<SmatZ>Belugas haven't you ever played games?
21:59<SmatZ>PC games
21:59*Belugas is going to take care of some auto-inflicted conflicts
21:59<fjb>Belugas: Nothing of interest. Stick to the real world, OpenTTD.
21:59<SmatZ>or computer games at all
21:59<@Belugas>not much, to be honest
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22:00<@Belugas>ottd a lot, before coding
22:00<@Belugas>the Myst series a lto too
22:00<fjb>Most games are boring.
22:00<@Belugas>i love the immersion
22:00<Axamentia>Myst was rather good
22:00<Axamentia>I miss the adventure style and immersion games
22:00<SmatZ>yeah, I loved adventures... but are there any adventures nowadays?
22:01<Axamentia>Things like Monkey Island, Broken Sword, Gabriel Knight, Myst, Phantasmagoria
22:01<Axamentia>No smatz, all the kids want is shooters
22:01<Gonozal_VIII>i played a lot of scorched earth^^
22:01<SmatZ>Gonozal_VIII: me too!
22:01*Belugas hates shooters to the outmost
22:02<SmatZ>it was perfect... though we had Yankee Doodle (Vienna, you should know ;-) in that game...
22:02<Axamentia>I dont mind some of them, but i lose intrest with shooters quickly
22:02<Gonozal_VIII>on a pc that was so slow that a death head attack took some minutes^^
22:02<SmatZ>we got infected our computer many times...
22:02<SmatZ>yeah, I had to reset that PC, sometimes it really looked to be locked up
22:03<Axamentia>my fav games, have always been sim, strategy and adventure
22:03*fjb never liked shooters.
22:03<Gonozal_VIII>did you sometimes crash other tanks by driving over them?^^
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22:04*fjb once played Castle Wolfenstein years ago.
22:04<Axamentia>mind you in the chop/shoot/slash, there were RPG hybrids liek eye of the beholder that were good
22:04<SmatZ>I bought a power shield and the most destructive weapon :-D
22:04<SmatZ>I didn't like Wolfenstein :-(
22:04<Gonozal_VIII>that would be death head then ;-)
22:05<Gonozal_VIII>or a nuke but that does only one boom...
22:05*fjb didn't like it either. But the patches were fun.
22:05<SmatZ>most likely, though it was really expensive, 20 000 I think :-) 12 000 for nuke IIRC
22:05<Gonozal_VIII>yep, that's deathhead
22:05<@Belugas>oh chooooo :(
22:05<@Belugas>forgot something
22:05<SmatZ>oh no
22:05<Gonozal_VIII>baby rollers are fun^^
22:06<Gonozal_VIII>shield killers
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22:06<SmatZ>I liked Eartquake
22:06<SmatZ>shield won't help you, only parachute
22:07<SmatZ> :-) The Mother Of All Games
22:07<Gonozal_VIII>hot napalm with a lazy boy guidance systam through a hill launched into the inside of an opponents heavy shield^^
22:08<fjb>The ai still teraaforms the same regions of the map over and over again.
22:08<Gonozal_VIII>shield fills up with napalm^^
22:08<SmatZ>I don't remember using napalm :) I was really young when I played it :_(
22:08<Axamentia>i usually build something on it fjb: just to annoy it
22:08<SmatZ>fjb: AI doesn't have to pay for it :)
22:09<fjb>Axamentia: The areas are too big for that. I'm still early in the game.
22:09<fjb>SmatZ: I know...
22:09<SmatZ>fjb: I know you know :)
22:09<fjb>Does it ever stop to terraform half of the map?
22:10<Gonozal_VIII>buy the pieces of land on each side of the station it wants to connect
22:10<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r12136 /trunk/src/ (bridge_gui.cpp gui.h): -Fix(r12135): Code style compliance and... code style as such
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22:11<@Belugas>and now, time to disappear
22:11<Gonozal_VIII>oh noes
22:11<@Belugas>ho yezz
22:11<Jaybud>Quick question: Which variable in openttd.cfg will disable the needless "Blah production at Blahville has gone up/down X%"?
22:11<Gonozal_VIII>news settings
22:11*Belugas 's wife is happy, i'm not too late this time :S
22:11<Jaybud>well yes
22:12*Belugas is gne
22:12<Gonozal_VIII>you can change that ingame
22:12<Gonozal_VIII>cu belugas
22:12<Jaybud>uh, where?
22:12<Gonozal_VIII>newspaper icon in the menubar
22:12<Jaybud>that makes sense :P
22:13<fjb>It terraforms without having a station there.
22:13<Gonozal_VIII>and that doesn't make sense^^
22:13<Gonozal_VIII>maybe it's trying to place an airport?
22:14<fjb>Gonozal_VIII: Don't know what it wants to build. There is constant terraforming in some parts of the map.
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22:44<fjb>Good night.
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---Logclosed Thu Feb 14 00:00:12 2008