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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-02-20

---Logopened Wed Feb 20 00:00:49 2008
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00:11<UFO64>Thatnks for th example
00:12<UFO64>I'm gonna keep working at it. I'd like to ha ve a better queing system overall for it. Allowing every train to each every loading area while being able to load them at the same time
00:12<UFO64>Take care al
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04:23<zeroc>âñåì ïðèâåò ÿ èç ðîññèè !!! ÿ òóò ïåðâûé ðàç )) õî÷ó íàéòè äåâóøêó ñåáå èç äðóãîé ñòðàíû ))
04:23<zeroc>All greetings I from Russia!!! I here first time)) wish to find the girl to myself from other country))
04:23<zeroc>Badly I do not know your language translate through the program
04:23<ln->use UTF-8.
04:24<zeroc>Why everyone are silent
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04:24<zeroc>ln- » ??
04:24<zeroc>íå ïîíÿë
04:25<zeroc>Why everyone are silent Why everyone are silent
04:26<ln->you only arrived 2 minutes ago.
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04:26<zeroc>The coding should be replaced to me yes??
04:28<@peter1138>Even then, not many of us here will understand it ;)
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04:28<zeroc>ln- » ooo!! very good
04:28<zeroc>I from Russia let's talk
04:28<zeroc>ln- » You are class Russian knows??
04:29<@peter1138>Do you... wish to find the girl to yourself from other country, or wish to talk about TTD-related subjects?
04:30<ln->or find a TTD-playing girl here?
04:30<zeroc>I rich also search to myself for the wife not from Russia to me 20 years
04:30<ln->this can get entertaining...
04:31<zeroc>I ñîîáøåíèÿ to you are clear? The coding normal I through the program translate
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04:36<Morloth>Good morning everyone :)
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04:38<ln->zeroc: do you know what is OpenTTD?
04:40<@peter1138>'is' goes after 'OpenTTD'
04:42<ln->damn, you're right.
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04:45<mikl>Syntax error, unexpected noun 'OpenTTD' in line 1 ;)
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04:47<mikl>expected adjective ;)
05:02<keyweed>use nostrict;
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05:21<Morloth>Is there btw an easy way to replace, say, all vehicles older then 13 years? I now have to find them all by hand and replace then manually, there must be a better way right?
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05:28<Ammler>morning all, is beta new name for monthly? ;-)
05:39<SmatZ>hello Ammler :) it is a coincidence ;)
05:39<SmatZ>wow, 3 months since beta1
05:39<Ammler>yeah, every month one more
05:40<Ammler>what is the main missing feature for final?
05:40<Ammler>plane speed?
05:41<Ammler>or rivers for running game?
05:41<SmatZ>plane speed for sure, and bug fixes
05:43<Ammler>well bug fixes could also be made with RCs
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05:44<@peter1138>plane speed indeed...
05:44<Ammler>the rivers?
05:44<@peter1138>Are only available in the scenario editor...
05:45<Ammler>but that will change, or is that wanted that way?
05:45<Gonozal_VIII>nobody coded automatic river generation yet
05:45<Gonozal_VIII>but i don't think they should be buildable by players...
05:45<SmatZ>you can build locks and canals...
05:46<Gonozal_VIII>that's what people do... but nobody builds rivers...
05:47<@peter1138>Ideally rivers should created automatically and be immutable, but that makes no sense when you can raise and flatten mountains...
05:47*SmatZ thinks should be non-bulldozable
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05:51<Noldo>just make springs and floodfill from there :)
05:51<Gonozal_VIII>lively rivers!
05:53<Ammler>its no problem to switch so scenario editor in single player mode
05:54<Ammler>but we mostly play MP
05:54<Gonozal_VIII>look in the wiki for lively rivers
05:54<Ammler>I think. it doesn't hurt, if you can build rivers in running mode
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05:55<Noldo>are the river tiles just like canal tiles but different graphics?
05:58<Gonozal_VIII>sloped tiles can't be passed by ships
05:58<Forked>meep meep
05:58<Gonozal_VIII>hi forked
05:58<Forked>heya :)
06:00<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r12188 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Codechange [FS#1782]: do not check twice for correct rail owner (patch by Vikthor)
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06:06<SpComb> <-- broadcast works \o/
06:06<Noldo>404 - Not Found
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06:08<Gekz>ipv6 ottd.
06:08<Gekz>that's a milestone
06:08<SpComb>the server just gets listed twice because it gets both the IPv4 and IPv6 broadcast reply
06:08<@peter1138>we need to change the network protocol to handle ipv4 & ipv6 together :o
06:08<SpComb>yeah, the masterserver's next
06:09<SpComb>well, specifically, after lunch and four hours of lectures, for I must remember that I need to study as well :<
06:09<@peter1138>No, now!
06:09-!-DJGummikuh [~joey@ip3198.saw.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #openttd
06:09<@peter1138>What OS is that?
06:09<DJGummikuh>-Fix: Enable YAPF to start searching inside a wormhole [FS#1704] (r12056)
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06:10<SpComb> <-- the code's avilable there, in case someone wants to review it/give feedback on it, it probably needs a fair amount of work/#ifdefs to be usable in trunk
06:10<SpComb>linux, ubuntu 7.10, amd64
06:10<@peter1138>Then what's the theme? ;)
06:11<DJGummikuh>what is a "wormhole" in your terminology?
06:11<@peter1138>DJGummikuh, portal
06:11<DJGummikuh>and what is that?
06:11<Gonozal_VIII>tunnels and bridges
06:11<DJGummikuh>ah ok
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06:11<DJGummikuh>I just wondered what cool extensions yo were planning for openttd ^^
06:11<DJGummikuh>Stargates and such :))
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06:12<keyweed>teleporters would take the fun out of it, i think
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06:12<DJGummikuh>keyweed: it's all a matter of implementation :) I would love to teleport some players on my server to another world or dimension :)
06:13<SmatZ>DJGummikuh: you can use "kick"
06:13<DJGummikuh>now where's the fun in that? :)
06:14<SmatZ>you will teleport them out of your server
06:14<DJGummikuh>yeah and onto someone's else
06:14<@peter1138>SpComb, hmm, hardy doesn't seem to support that very well :(
06:15<SpComb>I need to change it or something, though, because compiz doesn't support dual monitors very well
06:15<SpComb>no windowsnap on the monitor boundary, and maximzed windows span both monitors, which is very annoying
06:15<SpComb>particularly with websites that insist on resizing your browser window
06:15<@peter1138>Seems to work for me, using nvidia's implementation...
06:15<keyweed>kill the webdesigners. websites should never resize browsers.
06:16<SpComb>windowsnap on monitor edges with compiz?
06:16<SpComb>hmm... need to look into that then
06:17<@peter1138>My panel's don't work :(
06:17<@peter1138>No menu is shown
06:17*Fujitsu puts on his Ubuntu dev hat.
06:17<Fujitsu>peter1138: Do you have panels at all?
06:17<@peter1138>... yes
06:19<@peter1138>Ok, it's emerald doing that
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06:28*SpComb wonder how many people who play OpenTTD have IPv6 connectivity
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06:30<SpComb>well, they don't even hazve IPv4 connectivity ^^
06:38<@peter1138>I did, but then BT stopped their tunnel service :o
06:41<SpComb>what kind of tunnel was it?
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06:47<@peter1138>A regular IPv6 over IPv4 tunnel...
06:48<SpComb>there's several different kinds
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07:07<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r12189 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: mark some functions in train_cmd.cpp inline (called once or very short)
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07:31<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r12190 /trunk/src/yapf/yapf_base.hpp: -Fix [FS#1786](r8080): YAPF always shows 0ms PF time in debug for debug level 2 (patch by IguannaB)
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08:42<brazuca>hi guys
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08:42<Morloth>Hi brazuca
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08:43<brazuca>i trying to create my own server dedicated but im struggling
08:45<brazuca>anyone could help me?
08:45<Morloth>I've never done such a thing before, I'm sorry
08:47<brazuca>k tks
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08:51<DJ-Nekkid>!seen thgergo
08:54<Eddi|zuHause3><Morloth> Is there btw an easy way to replace, say, all vehicles older then 13 years? I now have to find them all by hand and replace then manually, there must be a better way right? <- you can move these vehicles to a vehiclegroup, and then autoreplace only in that group
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08:56<fjb>Moin frosch123
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09:02<Morloth>Eddi|zuHause3: K, thanks. I'll try that :)
09:08<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r12191 /trunk/src/roadveh_cmd.cpp: -Fix: Do not start overtaking if the RV reaches wrong-way one-way-road in the next tiles.
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09:26<debian__>How can I move something from an train to an ship?
09:26<+glx>with joined dock and station
09:28<Eddi|zuHause3>"transfer and unload"
09:29<Gonozal_VIII>unload alone is enough if the station doesn't accept that stuff
09:29<Gonozal_VIII>but using transfer is safer, if a new industry happens to pop up right there...
09:30<+glx>Gonozal_VIII: transfer is needed if you don't want to lose money
09:30<Gonozal_VIII>really? but the result looks the same with unload
09:31<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r12192 /trunk/src/ (core/math_func.hpp newgrf_town.cpp): -Fix: clamp various town variables to 16bit prior to returning the value
09:31<+glx>yes, but the unloader vehicle is always in red
09:32<+glx>and that's bad for the score
09:32<Gonozal_VIII>i don't care about score^^
09:35<@Belugas>m2 for bridges is already in part used...
09:36-!-Greysc[a]le is now known as Greyscale
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09:38<Gonozal_VIII> <-- that could free bits ;-)
09:39<Morloth>Does someone knows how the running costs are calculated internly?
09:39<Morloth>I have no idea what Vehicle.GetRunningCost() returns
09:40<Morloth>I see the actual cost is calculated by dont a 8 bit shifts !?
09:40<Gonozal_VIII>that's not the calculation, that's some strange bitmagic
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09:42<Morloth> Money GetDisplayRunningCost() const { return (this->GetRunningCost() >> 8); << Don't think so ;)
09:42<Gonozal_VIII>look at getrunningcost :P
09:42<brazuca>could any of you guys do me a favor
09:42<Eddi|zuHause3>Morloth: replace these shifts by multiplications/divisions
09:42<Eddi|zuHause3>>> 8 is the same as /256
09:42<Morloth>Eddi|zuHause3: I know how bitshifts work :)
09:42<+glx>and it's just for display
09:43<Morloth>Eddi|zuHause3: I just wonder how I can calculate the running cost per year for a vehicle
09:43<brazuca>could you check if !![HARDCORE].BRAZUCA is in the server list
09:43<+glx>there is a fract part
09:43<brazuca>if it is available
09:43<+glx>if you see it there, it's ok
09:44<brazuca>it is... tks
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09:45<Morloth>Balogh Armored Truck Running cost: 108090 and max age: 5490 << I get these values. max age is OK it's calculated in years. But the I can't trace back the value 108090. The running cost / year is displayed as: 844
09:45<Morloth>108090 >> 8 = 422
09:45<@Belugas>a good question for anyone playing MP : on a 2048*2048 map, at game's end, how many bridges, any bridges, do tyou think there should be, at the most
09:46<Morloth>But I don't see the *2 anywhere in the code ?
09:46<saati>Belugas: few thousand
09:46<SmatZ>Morloth: do you use Pounds?
09:46<Morloth>SmatZ: yes?
09:47<SmatZ>Morloth: yes?
09:47<Morloth>Don't tell me all values are mulitplied by 2 if you use pounds? :)
09:47<SmatZ>no :)
09:47<Eddi|zuHause3>Belugas: bridge usage should increase if flexible bridges are introduced
09:48<@Belugas>not the answer i wanted to hear
09:48<Morloth>Oh, in fact I use Euros
09:48<SmatZ>Morloth: Pounds are the base - if you use Euros, you will have prices multiplied by two
09:48<@Belugas>a few thousands... that's the best estimate so far
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09:49<Morloth>I had something similar with speeds, but I guess that's the same convertion problem miles <-> km ?
09:49<debian__>Autorenew failed on train 13(money limit), why?
09:49<Gonozal_VIII>what do you think?
09:50<Eddi|zuHause3>on my practically empty 2kx1k map, i estimate around 200 existing bridges
09:50<SmatZ>Morloth: probably :) but maybe the base for RVs is multiplied by 2 ... or so... I don't know
09:51<Gonozal_VIII>what you should think is that the autorenew failed because of the money limit ;-)
09:51<@Belugas>where is dihedral when you need him :S
09:51<@Belugas>Any server admins in here??
09:51<Morloth>SmatZ: It is ;)
09:51<Gonozal_VIII>coop guys are extreme.. look at one of their finished maps
09:52<@Belugas>Gonozal_VIII, yuo're familiar with them?
09:52<Gonozal_VIII>looked at one of them some time ago
09:53<Gonozal_VIII>anyways.. limits are bad
09:53<@Belugas>answer is thus "no" :)
09:54<@Belugas>limits are bad, true. but no-limit stuff has a price to pay too
09:54<@Belugas>so, it is a matter of balancing the pros and the cons to come up to a good compromise
09:54<Gonozal_VIII>allocate the same size again when the first is full :-)
09:54<Eddi|zuHause3>640k ought to be enough for anyone?
09:55<Eddi|zuHause3>or why not specify the limit in the .cfg, like for vehicles?
09:56<+glx>.cfg is the soft limit, there are still a hard limit for vehicles
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09:57<DJ-Nekkid>Belugas: u might wanna check out opencoop game #80 ... that were a 1k^2 map...
09:57<DJ-Nekkid>count them and multiply by 4 or 5 :)
09:58<Eddi|zuHause3>then i vote for a limit like 64k
09:58<@Belugas>spot me one with the most bridges on it, if you can
09:58<Eddi|zuHause3>afaik it's the same as for the vehicles
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09:58<SpComb>Linking ottd_master
09:58<SpComb>shared/network/core/udp.o: In function `NetworkUDPSocketHandler::Recv_NetworkGameInfo(Packet*, NetworkGameInfo*)':
09:58<SpComb>udp.cpp:(.text+0x6d3): undefined reference to `MallocError(unsigned long)'
09:58<DJ-Nekkid>not sure if that one has the most bridges, but it's the largest opencoop game so far afaik
09:58<Eddi|zuHause3>my bridges usually appear in pairs
09:58<SpComb>it's broken! It doesn't work!
09:58<@Belugas>Eddi|zuHause3, that's the point of my query. I want tio be sure 64k will be enough
09:59<debian__>Gonozal_VIII: What money limit? And in beta 4 the popups that tell ho. much an train have lost is wrong.
09:59<SpComb>and that's the unmodified svn:// source
09:59<Gonozal_VIII>oh... so those wrong profit messages are not the fault of my patchpack
10:00<Eddi|zuHause3>well, i can't see me reaching that limit, but i don't play MP
10:00<DJ-Nekkid>Belugas: 64000 bridges?
10:00<@Belugas>roughly, yes
10:00<Gonozal_VIII>you should take some time to read and test all the patch settings debian
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10:01<@Belugas>65535, to be precise
10:01<@peter1138>Belugas, you can always divide that into map areas...
10:01<DJ-Nekkid>unless u make HUGE maps available (16kx16k or even bigger) any time soon that should be sufficient...
10:01<+glx>SpComb: really?
10:01<DJ-Nekkid> <-- opencoop game 80
10:01<Gonozal_VIII>if you want to be on the safe side... 2^21 is the absolute limit
10:02<debian__>How many can play an mulitplayer game?
10:02<Gonozal_VIII>that's a 2'2k map completely covered in minimum size bridges
10:03<DJ-Nekkid>debian__: 11 (or is that 12) atm, a patch have made it to 55 (or prolly 55 and 8 spectators plus the server)
10:03<Eddi|zuHause3>SpComb: afaik it links to some code from the openttd source, have you included that?
10:03<+glx>SpComb: oh it's the same error we had with strgen
10:03<SpComb>well, the externals, yes
10:03<SpComb>MallocError is in src/core/alloc_func.{h,c}pp
10:04<SpComb>but there's no core anything in objs/release/shared/
10:04<+glx>I have core in shared
10:04<+glx>but source.list may need updating :)
10:05<debian__>So only 12 players?
10:05<SpComb>indeed, source.list doesn't include the core dir
10:06<+glx>it does but only for some files
10:06*SmatZ is sure he put core/alloc_func.cpp into source.list
10:06<debian__>DJ-Nekkid: Where do I find that patch? Do I need an induvidual server?
10:06<+glx>SmatZ: not in updater :)
10:06<SpComb>added them in and it works
10:07<SpComb> <-- have a diff
10:07<+glx>thanks (I can't compile it, don't have mysql dev stuff)
10:08<@Belugas>741K ? There musst be something wrong...
10:08<+glx>are all files needed?
10:09<+glx>SpComb: only alloc_func.cpp is needed I think
10:10-!-DJ-Nekk|d [] has joined #openttd
10:13<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r12193 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: Rename a magic variable, give it a decent type, and remove a 'goto'.
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10:15<+glx>SpComb: can you try with only alloc_func.cpp ?
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10:18<Morloth>Hmmz... I think there is an error in AIEngine->GetMaxSpeed. For trains it gives the correct values, for boats and vehicles the double value and for aircraft it's 2 km/h off the mark...
10:18-!-Greysc[a]le is now known as Greyscale
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10:18<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r12194 /trunk/src/ (train.h train_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: apply coding style on enum TrainSubtype
10:19<Eddi|zuHause3>debian__: you do not want that patch
10:21<debian__>Eddi|zuHause3: Why not?
10:21<Eddi|zuHause3>trust me...
10:22<debian__>I'm going to an lan, so I need to be able to play with a lot of people...
10:25<Eddi|zuHause3>the limit is 11 players in 8 companies, you'll have to live with that
10:25<LordAzamath>what patch?
10:28<Morloth>Can someone explain these differences?
10:28<Morloth>aircraft.h: int GetDisplayMaxSpeed() const { return this->max_speed * 10 / 16; }
10:28<Morloth>roadveh.h: int GetDisplayMaxSpeed() const { return this->max_speed * 10 / 32; }
10:28<Morloth>ship.h: int GetDisplayMaxSpeed() const { return this->max_speed * 10 / 32; }
10:28<Morloth>train.h: int GetDisplayMaxSpeed() const { return this->u.rail.cached_max_speed * 10 / 16; }
10:29<Morloth>If I call AIEngine.GetMaxSpeed, I have to devide the value by 2 for road vehicles and ships. Think it's related to these calculations
10:30<Morloth>I can understand that 10 / 16 is the transformation from km -> miles, but I don't understand what's up with 10 / 32
10:30<debian__>Eddi|zuHause3: So some players have to be in the same companies?
10:31<+glx>Morloth: internal speed don't use the same scale for all vehicle types
10:31<+glx>and 1/32 = 1/16/2
10:32<Morloth>no its 1/ 16 * 2 ;)
10:32<Morloth>of 1 / (16 * 2 )
10:32<+glx>(1/16)/2 :)
10:34<Morloth>ok, in that case there is an error in AIEngine
10:34*Morloth puts his white gloves on and goes fixing :)
10:39<Morloth>glx: Should I post patches at Or open a new task for them. I'm asking because the fixed I did are depended on the make_static patch
10:39<+glx>just show the diff here :)
10:39<Eddi|zuHause3>arithmetic operators are left associative
10:39<Eddi|zuHause3>so 1/16*2 is wrong
10:39<+glx>yes 1/16/2 was right :)
10:40<Morloth>EddizuHause3: I corrected myself! :P
10:42<Ammler>fjb: around?
10:42<Gonozal_VIII>no the other fjb
10:42<fjb>Ah, ok.
10:43<Ammler>yeah, you seems a little bit experienced with using ECS
10:43<fjb>A bit.
10:43<Ammler>I am packing a new coop pack
10:43<Ammler>what do I need to know about ECS, about orders to other GRFs
10:43<Morloth>diff -x .svn -r /home/bram/src_now/ai/api/ai_engine.cpp src/ai/api/ai_engine.cpp
10:43<Morloth>< return vi->max_speed;
10:43<Morloth>> return vi->max_speed / 2; // Internal speed representation is in km/h * 2
10:43<Ammler>I know, that ECS self needs to be like the IDs
10:43<Morloth>< return vi->max_speed;
10:43<Morloth>> return vi->max_speed / 2; // Internal speed representation is in km/h * 2
10:44<Morloth>Oh... :P
10:44<Eddi|zuHause3>Morloth: pa... what he said
10:44<fjb>Put the ECS grfs first, every other grf later. Put them before any town or vehicle grf.
10:44<Ammler>but after landscape or doesn't that matter?
10:45<fjb>And order the ECS grfs according their grf id. But I guess you knew that.
10:45<Eddi|zuHause3>Morloth: try "diff -u"
10:45<fjb>Landscape doesn't matter.
10:45<Ammler>ok, we have it after TTRS now, I need to fix that
10:45<+glx>Morloth: or just svn diff ;)
10:46<fjb>TTRS will lose the tourists when it is before the ECS grfs.
10:46<Ammler>fjb: no, TTRS is after, but the infrastructure GRF are before
10:46<Ammler>I sorted the GRFs like GRFCrawler Categories
10:46<Morloth>glx: Problem is that I have written several lines of code and try maintain like 3 different 'branches': The main branch, the branch with patches not yet in the main branch, and an other working copy :P
10:47<Ammler>but backwards
10:47<fjb>That is or. Landscape -> ECS -> TTRS -> Vehicles
10:47<+glx>Morloth: try using git or mercurial for your local developpement ;)
10:47<Morloth>glx: Yeah... was thinking about something like that ;)
10:47<Gonozal_VIII>action a stuff can be placed anywhere
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10:48<Morloth>glx: or you could give me svn access ;)
10:48<fjb>ECS has to be loaded before any other grfs that deals with new cargos. Stations also have to be loaded after ECS.
10:48<Ammler>fjb: landscape - infrstructure - industries - buildings- stations -vehicles
10:48<fjb>That sounds ok.
10:48<Ammler>well, then I am lucky
10:49<Ammler>I don't need to change it then
10:49<fjb>Newbridges should go after TTRS if you want to use them. And TTRS bridges have to be disabled then. Newbridges with parameter 2 gives TTRS road compatible bridges.
10:50<Ammler>hmm, are you sure, I had problems with using newbridges after roadsets
10:50<fjb>It you are using TTRS streets and DBset XL you should disable the road crossings of DBset XL.
10:50<fjb>I'm sure.
10:51<fjb>Enable the TTRS roads, but disable TTRS bridges. Load Newbridges after it and use parameter 2.
10:51<@peter1138>Yeah, DBSetXL has loads of options
10:52<fjb>But they are easy to understand.
10:52<Ammler>you can enable TTRS and bridges separate?
10:52<Ammler>TTRS streets and bridges I meant..
10:52<fjb>TTRS road and bridges are separate.
10:53<Ammler>parameter 3
10:53<@peter1138>Morloth, btw, internal representation is not km/h
10:53<fjb>Oh, you were faster.
10:53<@peter1138>As mph/km/h is 1.609, not 1.6...
10:53<Ammler>set it to 1?
10:54<Morloth>peter1138: I know, but I think the internal calculations are simplified
10:54<@peter1138>The TTDPatch people were pedantic enough to insist that it is not 1.6 :o
10:54<Gonozal_VIII>the grf defines km/h, so km/h are right but mph are wrong
10:54<@peter1138>Gonozal_VIII, no, grf does not define km/h
10:54<Gonozal_VIII>sure does
10:54<SpComb> <-- what did I managed to break here?
10:55<@peter1138>Speed (09)
10:55<@peter1138>Train speed is in units of mph*1.6, i.e. approximately km/h.
10:55<fjb>ttrs3w.GRF = 0 0 1 1
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10:55<@peter1138>approximately... the specification states it is mph*1.6..
10:55<SpComb>network/core/core.h defines an enum with the same name that network/network_data.h typedefs to
10:55<Gonozal_VIII>it's exactly km/h and the mph are wrong! because i say so!
10:55<Morloth>I think Gonozal_VIII is right
10:56<DaleStan>No, it's mph*1.56. Which is not kph.
10:56<DaleStan>Erm... No, it's mph*1.6. Which is not kph.
10:56<Morloth>the value of *VehInfo->max_sped is in km/h
10:56<@peter1138>no it's not
10:56<Ammler>fjb: you should somewhere write down your experience with GRFs
10:56<fjb>Hm, I should.
10:56<Gonozal_VIII>but grf authors want it to be km/h
10:57<Ammler>there are readmes for every single grf, but nothing for how to combine them
10:57<DaleStan>No, they don't. They want it to be what it has been for years before OpenTTD was ever released.
10:57<Morloth>If I compare the output of *VehInfo->max_speed with what I see on my screen in the vehicle info dialog it shows the same values in km/h
10:57<Ammler>at least not much :)
10:57<fjb>Ok, I'm back in about half an hour.
10:58<@peter1138>Morloth, not for high values it doesn't
10:58<Gonozal_VIII>then mb wants his transrapid to have 502 km/h top speed?
10:58<Morloth>peter1138: I noticed, the value for airplanes is 2 km/h off the mark as I remarked ^^
10:58<Gonozal_VIII>and lots of other vehicles that are slightly above rl values...
11:00<Morloth>peter1138: But it could be that internally the value is translated from km/h -> mhp by * 10 / 16. And if the value needs to displayed in screen it is again translated but this time by the correct value from mph -> km/h
11:01<Morloth>But that would be very messy programming =)
11:01<Gonozal_VIII>it's integer calculation, lots of rounding involved
11:02<Morloth>that too...
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11:04<DaleStan>If 502 is what MB coded, then 502 is what MB wanted. If he wanted 500, he could reduce the property by 2.
11:05<Gonozal_VIII>some km/h values can't be reached
11:05<DaleStan>Or maybe 3; there's got to be a few locations where an increase of one does not change the displayed speed.
11:06<Gonozal_VIII>and it's 2, i changed it some time ago
11:06<DaleStan>Which values?
11:07<Gonozal_VIII>i think it was 200
11:07<DaleStan>Oh, wait. Nevermind. that is the way it goes.
11:07<Gonozal_VIII>goes directly from 199 to 201
11:07<Gonozal_VIII>or something like that
11:07<Gonozal_VIII>it was a multiple of 10
11:08<@peter1138>well, you are actually wrong. it was changed to be km/h internally once, but there were a load of complaints from grf authors so it was changed back...
11:09<Gonozal_VIII>who complained?
11:10<@peter1138>can't remember off hand
11:10<Gonozal_VIII>anyways... if they want to have mph, then why is it mph * 1,6?
11:10<@peter1138>and no doubt one of the complainants was DaleStan :D
11:11<DaleStan>I don't think I said much. I do remember Pikka complaining that his trains were suddenly going the wrong speeds.
11:12<Gonozal_VIII>mph or km/h would make sense... but a strange unit like mph*1,6?
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11:15<DaleStan>Because that is what the docs say. I seriously doubt patchman invented a new unit just to mess with us; I expect that's TTD
11:15<DaleStan>'s internal value. (Maybe CS got lazy?)
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11:16<Gonozal_VIII>ah.. from ttd... didn't think of that
11:23<Morloth>Date is such a tricky problem as well ;)
11:23<Morloth>Some classes think a year has 366 days, others 365 :)
11:24<Gonozal_VIII>364 for running cost :-)
11:25<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r12195 /trunk/src/openttd.cpp: -Fix [FS#1787](r12100): there can be oil rigs at map borders, do not set water class for them
11:25<Morloth>there you go :P
11:26<SmatZ>I suppose it is because of rounding
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11:27<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r12196 /extra/masterserver_updater/source.list: [MSU] -Fix: compilation due to some changes in trunk
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11:52<SpComb> <-- MySQL \o/
11:56<yorick>are you rewriting the master server or something?
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12:07<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r12197 /trunk/src/ (8 files in 3 dirs):
12:07<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#1788](r12134): show correct last year profit when the train had negative income
12:07<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Codechange: use GetDisplayProfitThisYear() to convert vehicle profit to readable form
12:09-!-Morloth is now known as Morloth|Dancing
12:09<Morloth|Dancing>cya later!
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12:12<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12198 /trunk/src/main_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#1789]: "Transparent buildings" now only toggles buildings, so show tick when buildings are transparent.
12:13<frosch123>bugs have a very short life today
12:18<SpComb>yorick: adding IPv6 support
12:18<SpComb>hmm, MasterServer::GetServerListPacket's max_count doesn't seem to take the version byte into account
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12:20<nzvip>Anyone in here knows anything about threads?
12:21<saati>you sew thing from them
12:21<frosch123>general-, delphi- and java- thingies: yes
12:21<nzvip>:P Not those threads!
12:21<nzvip>Threads in C!
12:21*frosch123 never used them in C
12:21<nzvip>Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
12:21<nzvip>[Switching to Thread -1209721968 (LWP 10765)]
12:21<nzvip>0xb7fa4550 in pthread_mutex_lock () from /lib/tls/i686/cmov/
12:22<saati>that depends on the platform
12:22<nzvip>This error makes no sense to me!
12:22<nzvip>Why will it segfault at mutex_lock()?
12:22<frosch123>Do you have to allocate a mutex-class, -handle or something like that?
12:23<nzvip>I have allocated that.
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12:50<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r12199 /trunk/src/ (30 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: Remove magic around the results of GetTileTrackStatus().
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12:56<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r12200 /trunk/src/ai/default/default.cpp: -Fix: force AI to build rail or road instead of bridges if possible, so it doesn't build bridges everywhere
12:57<@Belugas>SmatZ to the rescue of poor simple minded AI :D
12:57-!-Brianetta [] has quit [Quit: Tschüß]
12:58<@Belugas>and Frostregen doing high intelligence exercises on trackbit stuff!
12:58<@Belugas>Frosch :S
12:58<@Belugas>not Frostregen
12:58<SmatZ>yeah, it was really nice cleanup
13:01<debian__>How do I bould aeroplanes?
13:01<Gonozal_VIII>you already asked for trains and ships :P
13:01<Gonozal_VIII>figure that one out on your own
13:01<debian__>Found out
13:02<debian__>But witch one is the bombing plane?
13:02<debian__>Please tell me
13:02<debian__>My friend bombed my railroad
13:03<debian__>Gonozal_VIII: How to bomb him back?
13:03*LordAzamath just woke up
13:03<Gonozal_VIII>sorry, couldn't type, laughing...
13:03<LordAzamath>/and it's 8PM
13:04<Gonozal_VIII>that wasn
13:04<Gonozal_VIII>t him
13:04<debian__>Who was it?
13:04<debian__>And why did I get payd for it?
13:04<Gonozal_VIII>an ufo has landed on your rails, random disaster
13:04<Gonozal_VIII>you got money for that?
13:05<debian__>Gonozal_VIII: Yes, and my railroad houses also dissapeared...
13:05*LordAzamath wants to bomb his opponents' rail as often as possible
13:06<debian__>I got payd for the railroad, not the houses...
13:07-!-Yorick|AFK is now known as Yorick
13:07<Prof_Frink>debian__: Do you have a password on your company?
13:07<debian__>Prof_Frink: Nope
13:07<LordAzamath>check players list
13:07<Gonozal_VIII>guy with black hat
13:07<LordAzamath>hold down the company manager button.. The first menu item
13:07<debian__>No more than us now...
13:11-!-a1270 [] has joined #openttd
13:14<debian__>How does shares work?
13:15<debian__>Can I own the other company? Would my friend loose control of it then?
13:16<debian__>No I cant own it, or no he wont loose control?
13:16<ln->"lose" is spelled with one o.
13:17<globester>unless it's loose controll
13:17<globester>control :o
13:19<@Belugas># Ground Control to Major Tom
13:20<Gonozal_VIII>take your protein pills and put your helmet on
13:21<Eddi|zuHause3>if you have loose control, you better fix it
13:21<@Belugas># lift off
13:23-!-LordAzamath [] has left #openttd [Kopete 0.12.5 :]
13:23<@peter1138># it's been a long long time
13:24<@peter1138># hasn't it
13:24<Gonozal_VIII>what's up with that # stuff?
13:24<Eddi|zuHause3># vööööllliiiig schweeherelooos
13:25<Gonozal_VIII>peter euro
13:25<@peter1138># i know a farmer who looks after the farm
13:26<@peter1138># with water here he cares for his harvest
13:28<debian__># peter1138 ?
13:28<@peter1138># bang bang bang!
13:28<@peter1138># and they're giving me a wonderful potion
13:29<@peter1138># cos i cannot contain my emotion
13:30<Prof_Frink>[ ] :)
13:30*Belugas cries... it's not available on my system :(
13:30<Prof_Frink>I cannot contain my emoticon.
13:30<debian__>I want to win this game, what is hidden in the source code?
13:30<Prof_Frink>The secret of eternal youth.
13:30<Gonozal_VIII>the hidden secret is that you can't win
13:31<@peter1138>Belugas, can you youtube?
13:31<Gonozal_VIII>no matter what you do and how long you play, there's always more to do
13:32<@Belugas>"they" kinda forbide it, and "kinda" disabled it :S
13:33<Gonozal_VIII>"they" again! it's always "them"!
13:33<@peter1138>can you voip? hehe
13:34<@Belugas>neither ;)
13:34<@Belugas>but thanks
13:34<Prof_Frink>Belugas: A block shouldn't stop someone 1337 like you
13:34*Belugas knows not much on network wizardy
13:35<@Belugas>eitherway, i've got some Mogwai going on
13:35<@Belugas>so.. it's better than nothing ;)
13:35<Gonozal_VIII>oh noes! don't get water on them or feed them after midnight!
13:36<@Belugas>not a chance
13:36<@Belugas>at midnight, my headset willnot play
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13:55*SpComb shizzles
13:55<SpComb>a dual-stack IPv6 server supports IPv4 and IPv6, so what do you stick into the master server?
13:56<@peter1138>needs to be both
13:56<SpComb>trying to stick both, but there's something weird about it sending the packet over IPv6 even though I have an IPv4 socket bound to an IPv4 adddress and sent to an IPv4 address
13:57<@peter1138>hmm, an IPv6 socket should still be reachable via IPv4...
13:57<@peter1138>sort of
13:57<@peter1138>well it works for :::22 ;)
14:03<SpComb>indeed, but I didn't think the kernel would be able to automatically convert to 2002:5282:1012:1234:250:8dff:fed5:c0b9
14:05<Yorick>hmm...I get my livebox configuration screen if I go to
14:06<Yorick>it resolves to
14:08<@peter1138>yes, and?
14:09-!-Wolf01 [] has joined #openttd
14:10<Yorick>should it resolve to publicly?
14:11<@peter1138>well it's only a test environment
14:11<@peter1138>you'll need your own master server
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14:14<NukeBuster>Peter1138, what kind of build system does openttd use?
14:14<SpComb>the IPv6 one should work though
14:15<Sacro>Yorick: wtf
14:15<Sacro>it resolvse to .1.1 here
14:15<debian__>I want an train to bring and take stuff, how?
14:16<SpComb>and now it doesn't resolve at all
14:17<Eddi|zuHause3>debian__: won't work with transfer
14:17<SpComb>and yeah, I figured out what was wrong... it was, not >_<
14:17<SpComb>so it was sending the UDP packet to my router, and I'd just miscounted the IPv6 retries
14:17<SpComb>spent two hours on that...
14:18<Yorick>you should thank me
14:18<Yorick>"Bezig met het traceren van de route naar []"
14:21<@peter1138>NukeBuster, build system? Depends where it's being compiled...
14:21<NukeBuster>If I compiled it in a linux environment?
14:21<@peter1138>VS8 project, VS9 project, or makefile ...
14:22<@Belugas> <-- good.. I have the lyrics. Now i need to SING them
14:22<@Belugas>ho boy...
14:22<@peter1138>they have lyrics? :o
14:22<@Belugas>i THINK this is icelandic
14:22<@Belugas>not hopelandic
14:23<@Belugas>hopelandic, lost hope...
14:25<@peter1138>NukeBuster, so what's the question?
14:27<NukeBuster>well I'm trying out the GNU buildsystem, with autoconf and automake... but while doing that I was wondering what openttd uses
14:28<NukeBuster>(to get your configure script and makefile updated)
14:28<Prof_Frink>How was it that arstechnica described autoconf/automake?
14:28<Yorick>the configure script updates the makefile
14:29<NukeBuster>Yorick, but the configure scripts has to be made from something.... or do you type the whole thing yourself?
14:29<Yorick>I thought they did
14:30<NukeBuster>with autoconf, autoconf generates a configure script
14:30<NukeBuster>but it's quite a hassle...
14:30<Prof_Frink>"KDE's build system was previously based on Autotools, an intractably arcane and grotesquely anachronistic cesspool of ineffable complexity that makes even seasoned programmers nauseous."
14:30<NukeBuster>Yeah it isn't pretty
14:30<NukeBuster>Documentation doesn't tell everything either
14:31<@peter1138>NukeBuster, ours is totally custom
14:31<NukeBuster>Ok, thanks. Already wondered how you set it up like that.
14:32<@peter1138>It also sucks apparently, some people say, though without pointing specific reasons or parts that suck...
14:33<@peter1138>ln- is good at that though
14:33<NukeBuster>Hmm, at the moment I like the way you made it. Because I don't want makefiles all over the place
14:34<Prof_Frink>peter1138: It sucks because it's software, and all software sucks.
14:34<Prof_Frink>Some just sucks less.
14:35<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r12201 /trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r12060): compilation warnings - uninitialized variable when compiling with assert disabled
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14:35<SpComb> <-- updated
14:35<ln->peter1138: it doesn't work with distcc the normal way, and the location of the actual binary is hidden behind "make run".
14:35<Eddi|zuHause3>someone needs to branch 0.6, and then include YAPP...
14:36<SpComb>terom@marttila:~$ traceroute6
14:36<SpComb>traceroute to (2002:5282:1012:1234:250:8dff:fed5:c0b9), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets 1 (2002:5282:1012::1) 55.784 ms 55.915 ms 56.131 ms 2 (2002:5282:1012:1234:250:8dff:fed5:c0b9) 57.645 ms 57.787 ms 57.860 ms
14:36<SpComb>hmm, smelly
14:36<SpComb>terom@marttila:~$ traceroute6
14:36<SpComb>traceroute to (2002:5282:1012:1234:250:8dff:fed5:c0b9), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets
14:36<SpComb>1 (2002:5282:1012::1) 55.784 ms 55.915 ms 56.131 ms
14:36<SpComb>2 (2002:5282:1012:1234:250:8dff:fed5:c0b9) 57.645 ms 57.787 ms 57.860 ms
14:37<@peter1138>ln-, no, it's in bin/openttd
14:37<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12202 /trunk/src/openttd.cpp: -Fix: When loading a savegame fails, don't start creating a new game, just go straight back to the intro screen.
14:37<@peter1138>that's not hidden
14:37<@peter1138>make run is some stupid shortcut that i never use...
14:37<Eddi|zuHause3>Unable to connect to 2002:5282:1012:1234:250:8dff:fed5:c0b9: Network is unreachable
14:37<SmatZ>I use "make run" very often
14:37<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r12203 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r12199): Make trains pay attention to signals again.
14:38<Eddi|zuHause3>i don't use "make run", i always do b[PgUp]
14:38<@peter1138>b[PgUp] just beeps
14:38<SmatZ>lol @ r12203
14:39<Eddi|zuHause3>string[PgUp] cycles through the history of all commands starting with string
14:39-!-Digitalfox [] has joined #openttd
14:39<Eddi|zuHause3>where the last command starting with b is usually bin/openttd &
14:40<@peter1138>not with my shell
14:40<Eddi|zuHause3>occasionally it's bg
14:40<@peter1138>which appears to be bash
14:40<Eddi|zuHause3>but not much else starts with b
14:40<@peter1138>also known for sucking
14:40<Eddi|zuHause3>well, i have bash
14:41<Eddi|zuHause3>i found that it does not work in cygwin
14:41<Eddi|zuHause3>so probably it has to be configured somewhere
14:42<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r12204 /trunk/src/core/math_func.hpp: -Fix (r12192): using UINT16_MAX broke compilation on many targets
14:42<Digitalfox>If i set in messages settings, "Open/close of industries = OFF" and set "Production changes of industries served by the player = Full", will i be notified about my industries closing?
14:43<Digitalfox>My objective is that i only know if my industries close not every industry in the map..
14:44-!-|Jeroen| [] has quit [Quit: oO]
14:46<Digitalfox>What does "company information" inform?
14:46<Digitalfox>Bankrupt info/annual finances?
14:46<Yorick>companies getting closd by autoclear etc
14:47<debian__>Do I loose stuff stored in train stations?
14:51<@peter1138># it's me i'm cathy
14:52<@peter1138># i've come home and i'm so cold let me inna your window
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15:05<@Belugas># Sheeeeee is susceptible
15:05<@Belugas># heeeeeee is impossible
15:05<@Belugas># Theeeeeeey have their crosses to share
15:05<@Belugas># three of a perfect pair
15:06<Sacro> <- Er lebt!
15:06-!-Gonozal_VIII [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:06<Prof_Frink>I take it that translates to "He lives!"
15:10<@peter1138># i love to watch things on teeee veeee
15:11<SpComb> <-- topic
15:12<Prof_Frink>0.5.3, 0.6.0-beta4 | Website: * (DevBlog: blog, Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, NightlyArchive: archive, WIKI: wiki, SVN mailinglist: maillist, Dev-docs: docs, Patches & Bug-reports: bugs) | #openttd.notice for FS + SVN notices | UTF-8 is mandatory <-- topic
15:13<@Belugas># Heeeee has his contradictive views
15:13<@Belugas># sheeee has her cyclotimic mood
15:13<@Belugas># They make a study in despair
15:14<@Belugas># three of a perfect pair
15:14<@Belugas><--- lyrics
15:14-!-Gonozal_VIII [] has joined #openttd
15:14<Prof_Frink># Before the leaves have fallen, before we lock the doors, there must be the third and last dance, this one will last forever
15:16-!-UFO64 [] has joined #openttd
15:17<@Belugas># On this harvest moooooooooon
15:20<Sacro>Belugas: spammah
15:21<Prof_Frink>Sacro: hamtouchah
15:23<@Belugas>Sacro, singah!
15:23-!-Zaviori [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:25*Prof_Frink queues up 6DOIT
15:25-!-Purno [] has quit [Quit: Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else.]
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15:25<Prof_Frink>Belugas: It's your fault.
15:28-!-NukeBuster [] has quit [Quit: using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.3.12]
15:28*Belugas whistles innocently
15:28<Prof_Frink>(Music about insanity ftw)
15:28-!-NukeBuster [] has joined #openttd
15:30<debian__>When does the company start selling shares?
15:31<Vikthor>after being 5 years in bussines or so
15:33<debian__>Is that so it will be wotrth something?
15:33<debian__>And can someone point me in the direction of the shares wiki page?
15:37<@Belugas>and SEARCH! :D
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15:40-!-Yorick [] has quit [Quit: Always remember you're unique, your quit message is not.]
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15:53<debian__>Belugas: It was small
15:53<debian__>Make it more informative so I'll know.,
15:55<LordAzamath>do static grfs have priority over dynamic grfs?
15:55-!-KritiK [] has joined #openttd
15:56<@Belugas>debian__, there are two ways of finding stuff. One is following a direction to where those things are, the other is to know/learn how to get it yourself.
15:56<@Belugas>the latter has the advantage to be faster
15:57<@Belugas>altough it requires work
15:57<@Belugas>as in do it your self ;)
15:57<@Belugas>but it pays on the long run :D
15:57<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12205 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Codechange: rename RailVehicleInfo::running_cost_base to running_cost, inline with other vehicle types (It is the factor, not the base)
15:57<fjb>And it doesn't annoy other people.
15:58<@Belugas>hey.. i did not said that
15:58<fjb>But I did.
15:58<Prof_Frink>But you were thinking it loudly.
16:00<@Belugas>LordAzamath, i cannot answer that one. I don't know what you mean by priority
16:01<LordAzamath>if I have two grfs modifying the same thing, which one will be showed, static or non-static?
16:01<Eddi|zuHause3>LordAzamath: by default, static grfs are loaded last
16:01<Eddi|zuHause3>but you can change the order in the newgrf window
16:01<LordAzamath>hmm ok
16:01<LordAzamath>but in cfg file?
16:02<LordAzamath>just put [newgrf-static] before [newgrf]
16:02<Eddi|zuHause3>i don't think that will have any effect
16:02<+glx>won't change anything
16:02<Ammler>hmm, is there a reason why they are loaded after?
16:02<Ammler>not better they would be loaded first?
16:02<LordAzamath>I had always the idea that static things run in background and others run over them
16:03<LordAzamath>run (space) over * :D
16:04-!-UFO64 [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:06-!-Zealotus [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:06-!-Zealotus [] has joined #openttd
16:06-!-LordAzamath [] has left #openttd [Kopete 0.12.5 :]
16:08<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r12206 /trunk/src/misc_gui.cpp: -Fix: A comma is not a rare resource. Do not hesitate to use it when needed.
16:09<Prof_Frink># I'm alive again, the darkness far behind me, I'm invincible, despair will never find me
16:13<fjb>Belugas: Can I have that commit message?
16:13*Belugas granted
16:13<fjb>Thank you. It is widely applicable outside the OpenTTD source.
16:14<Prof_Frink>As, Tony Blair, will, happily demonstrate.
16:15<fjb>Does he never use a comma when speaking?
16:16<Prof_Frink># Deception of fame, vengeance of war, lives torn apart, losing oneself, spiralling down, feeling the walls closing in. A journey to find, the answers inside, our illusive mind!
16:17<Prof_Frink>fjb: It's more a case of, he will pause, at random points, in the sentence.
16:18<@Belugas>instrumental songs are bad for singing, would I say
16:18<fjb>Oh, not good for a politician. They should learn how to speak.
16:19<Prof_Frink>Belugas: Only the overture is instumental ;)
16:20<@Belugas># the holy city breaths like a dying man
16:20<@Belugas>Prof_Frink, try singing Mike Oldfield - Taurus1 ;)
16:23-!-Osai^work is now known as Osai
16:26-!-Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
16:27<fjb>He is always too fast...
16:29-!-Digitalfox [] has quit [Quit: Bye]
16:29-!-Morloth|Dancing is now known as Morloth
16:31<Sacro> <- i want :(
16:32<Prof_Frink>Sacro: But what would you /do/ with it?
16:32<Prof_Frink>Apart from heat the house
16:33<Sacro>Prof_Frink: compete with zernebok
16:33<Sacro>run a shedload of openttd servers...
16:33<Prof_Frink>shedload = 64?
16:33<Sacro>yes :D
16:34<Sacro>might even be able to run YAPF on ships
16:35<Gonozal_VIII>with 400mhz processors? nowai
16:36<debian__>Can ottd run on 400mhz cpu?
16:36-!-lobster [~michielbi@] has quit [Quit: AS A VAGINA ONCE SAID: <yorick> SOMEONE BAN HIM]
16:36<Prof_Frink>openttd has been known to run on a P166 w/ 32MB RAM
16:36<@peter1138>So, debian__, are you etch, sarge, woody or potato?
16:36<Sacro>YOUR NAMING 2.2 POTATO?
16:36<Prof_Frink>or lenny or sid?
16:37*Prof_Frink is now known as kubuntu__
16:37<Gonozal_VIII>not with shipyapf prof
16:37<Prof_Frink>Gonozal_VIII: No, this would have been when I had X on my libretto
16:38<ln->Prof_Frink: ClosedTTD has been known to run on a 486/33 w/ 8MB RAM.
16:38<Prof_Frink>True dat.
16:38<Gonozal_VIII>but that thingy should be able to run 64 normal openttd servers just fine
16:38-!-Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has left #openttd [Leaving]
16:38-!-Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
16:38<Prof_Frink>Sacro: It could also host your irssi session
16:38<Sacro>CIA censoredyst Jack Ryan is drawn into an illegal war fought by the US government against a Colombian drug cartel.
16:39<Gonozal_VIII>way too much ram for that...
16:39*Sacro wonders what a censoredist is
16:39<@Belugas>for what it's worth, i did not kicked Sacro
16:39<@Belugas>he did it himself!
16:39<Sacro>Prof_Frink: I have an irssi host
16:39<Prof_Frink>Sacro: Arse splitting.
16:39<Sacro>but when i press ^I it detaches the x-chat window
16:39-!-Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has left #openttd [Leaving]
16:39-!-Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
16:39<Sacro>like that ><
16:39<Sacro>and i have to close and reopen to attach it
16:39<Prof_Frink>Sacro: So do I! It's the P166 w/32MB RAM I mentioned before!
16:40<@peter1138>Sacro, er, pressing ^I again reattaches it
16:40-!-ThePizzaKing [] has joined #openttd
16:40<Sacro>peter1138: well whaddaya know!
16:40<Prof_Frink>silly Sacro.
16:40<Sacro>it does ^^
16:40<Prof_Frink>c-a d detaches the window
16:41<Prof_Frink>Sacro: Can you imagine what that site would make of a cocklepicker analyst from Scunthorpe?
16:41-!-Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:42<Sacro>i suppose it's clbuttic regex abuse
16:42<fjb>Belugas: It is Bjarni's job to kick Sacro.
16:43<@Belugas>Bjarni finds it amusing to kick a lot of people lately
16:43*fjb knows...
16:44<fjb>At least he kicked himself once.
16:45-!-TinoM [] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
16:47<debian__>I'm a genious in this game... I hvae 1.300.000
16:48<fjb>How great.
16:48<Gonozal_VIII>profit per day?
16:48<Sacro> #define _________ }
16:48<Sacro> #define ________ putchar
16:48<Sacro> #define _______ main
16:48<Sacro> #define _(a) ________(a);
16:48<Sacro> #define ______ _______(){
16:48<Sacro> #define __ ______ _(0x48)_(0x65)_(0x6C)_(0x6C)
16:48<Sacro> #define ___ _(0x6F)_(0x2C)_(0x20)_(0x77)_(0x6F)
16:48<Sacro> #define ____ _(0x72)_(0x6C)_(0x64)_(0x21)
16:48<fjb>Gonozal_VIII: That was evel...
16:48<Sacro> #define _____ __ ___ ____ _________
16:48<Prof_Frink>Gonozal_VIII: You should see my horribly broken ttdpatch game
16:48<Sacro> #include<stdio.h>
16:48<Prof_Frink>Belugas: *cough*
16:49<Gonozal_VIII>wtf is sacro doing
16:49<Sacro>that's some lovely code there lou
16:49<Prof_Frink>Gonozal_VIII: I was hitting the £2Gi overflow every day
16:50*fjb is playing with passenger destinations and ECS to not hit that overflow.
16:51<debian__>Gonozal_VIII: Per day? I only see yeer
16:51<debian__>~400.000 an year
16:53<fjb>I'm making about 9000000 after expeses a year in my actual game.
16:53<Gonozal_VIII>i remember single trains doing that^^
16:54<fjb>Yes, but it is not that easy to handle ECS. Much experimenting nedded...
16:54<Prof_Frink>Gonozal_VIII: I have ships making a loss on each journey
16:54<Gonozal_VIII>that's strange
16:54<Prof_Frink>Again, this is TTDPatch
16:54<Gonozal_VIII>my ships always made profit.. not much but no loss
16:55<Gonozal_VIII>is that so much different?
16:55<Prof_Frink>No overflow-protect
16:56<Gonozal_VIII>oveflowing ships :S
16:57<debian__>I buy every computer that came along
16:57<debian__>so I dont actualy do any building
16:58<fjb>Buying computers in the game? You are sure you are playing OpenTTD?
17:02<debian__>fjb: The AI's
17:02<debian__>I'm buying them through shares...
17:03<Eddi|zuHause3> <Sacro> that's some lovely code there lou <- you did not show any code yet
17:03<debian__>Gonozal_VIII: Then they can build for me...
17:03<Gonozal_VIII>i don't think, that's such a good idea^^
17:04<debian__>Can I turn off the siund effects?
17:04<Eddi|zuHause3>my current profit is 230.000.000 per year
17:05<Eddi|zuHause3>debian__: yes, click on the notes icon on the right of the main toolbar
17:05<Eddi|zuHause3>then turn the sound effects volume to 0
17:07<debian__>That was nice
17:07<debian__>The music is nice, but the constant train noise was annoying.
17:08*glx plays without music, but likes the train noise
17:08<fjb>Hm, is digging tunnels under oil wells a good idea...?
17:09*fjb didn't get music working yet.
17:10<debian__>Why does the AI's borrow so much money?
17:11<fjb>Because it fails to make profit.
17:12<debian__>I'm making profit, and I only buy AI's!
17:12<@peter1138>debian__, so have you considered a more suitable nickname for IRC?
17:12<Sacro>like root!
17:13<fjb>peter1138: Maybe his real name is Deborah Ian...
17:13<Gonozal_VIII>how about "/quit"
17:14<debian__>Is this better?
17:14-!-debian__ is now known as IRC-Nick
17:14<Prof_Frink>not really :/
17:14*fjb thinks that IRC-Nick is a very creative guy.
17:15-!-IRC-Nick is now known as yzaLyzarC
17:15<@peter1138>CrazyLazy? heh
17:15<yzaLyzarC>peter1138: Is it suitabole for me?
17:15<@peter1138>I don't know you well enough :p
17:15<yzaLyzarC>From what you've seen today!
17:16<fjb>How about: vqvbg :-)
17:16<Gonozal_VIII>he's letting the ai build for him
17:16<Gonozal_VIII>i think the nick is fitting
17:18<yzaLyzarC>Gonozal_VIII: Thank you!
17:20<yzaLyzarC>I have a company value of: ~8.800.000
17:20<yzaLyzarC>Year 1976
17:23*fjb has a company value of 34597818 in August 1951.
17:23<yzaLyzarC>If I tell it to automagicaly change from diesel to electrical, will it update the rails?
17:24<yzaLyzarC>I think it did, or the elektronic train is driving on diesles tracks
17:26<@peter1138>Prof_Frink is a Dieselist
17:26<yzaLyzarC>And as far as I can see it updates the tracks!
17:27<yzaLyzarC>Or else it is an bug...
17:28<fjb>Was the track build by the ai? It usually builds electrified tracks.
17:29<yzaLyzarC>fjb: Maybe...
17:29<ln->is there a cheap (USB or PCI) soundcard that can output AC3?
17:29<Sacro>wow, that was good
17:29<Sacro>ln-: you mean undecoded?
17:29<yzaLyzarC>Can I upgrade railways?
17:30<ln->Sacro: no, i want AC3 verbatim in coaxial form.
17:30*Sacro has a soundcard that outputs dts amd dolby digital
17:30<Sacro>ln-: yes, creative ones can
17:30<Sacro>actually, onboard ones might too
17:31<ln->i've got SPDIF out integrated on my motherboard, but it's unfortunately unable to output AC3 properly under linux.
17:31<Sacro>hmm :s
17:31-!-NukeBuster [] has quit [Quit: using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.3.12]
17:31<Sacro>linux support is a puzzler
17:31<Sacro>maybe an emu10k1 card would be better
17:31-!-NukeBuster [] has joined #openttd
17:31<Sacro> <- that'd be good
17:32<Sacro>but i think that is emu20k1
17:32<Sacro>or 10k2
17:32<ln->depending on the decoder in the amplifier, there is either sound or no sound. it doesn't properly set some AC3 bit on, but some decoders ignore that.
17:32<Sacro>i can never recall
17:32<ln->says internet.
17:33<fjb>yzaLyzarC: That is what the upgrade button is for.
17:33-!-fjb_ [] has joined #openttd
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17:35<fjb_>yzaLyzarC: Did you ever try to find out any function of the game by your own?
17:35<yzaLyzarC>I found it
17:36<yzaLyzarC>fjb_: I managed to open the game, and install almost without help...
17:36<fjb_>And now the rest of the world is there to tell you what you have to do?
17:38<yzaLyzarC>fjb_: No, only a few guys on irc
17:40<fjb_>I guess that guys will stop to answer your questions if you are to lazy to read the manual or even the tooltips.
17:40*Sacro tests LOTR:FOTR in surround
17:40<Sacro>errr. no
17:40<Sacro>that's Juno
17:41-!-fjb [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:41-!-fjb_ is now known as fjb
17:47<yzaLyzarC>This might seam like a stupid question but, where is the manual?
17:47-!-Wezz6400 [] has quit [Quit: The soviets! Tanks incom...]
17:48<@peter1138> i think
17:49-!-peter1138 [] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
17:53-!-XeryusTC [] has quit [Quit: May the ducttape be with you]
17:53<yzaLyzarC>Is the person who made this game here?
17:54<yzaLyzarC>The person who open-sourced it!
17:54-!-Progman [] has joined #openttd
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17:55<Sacro>yzaLyzarC: no, yes
17:55<Sacro>@seen ludde
17:55<@DorpsGek>Sacro: ludde was last seen in #openttd 6 weeks, 1 day, 2 hours, 32 minutes, and 4 seconds ago: <ludde> :)
17:56<yzaLyzarC>Is ludde the person who open-sourced this game?
17:57-!-Wezz6400 [] has quit []
17:57<ln->no, the game was never open-sourced.
17:57<fjb>Oh, somebody exorcized our ghost... :-(
17:58<Prof_Frink>ln-: Well, when it only existed on ludde's hard drive it was effectively closed source
17:58<yzaLyzarC>ln-: Definition on the word open-sourcED, bavaward engeenering to get the source code of something.
17:58<Sacro>yzaLyzarC: no, orudge did that
17:58<ln->"bavaward engeenering"...
17:58<Sacro>ludde owned the copyright, so techincally he "open sourced"
17:58<Sacro>but orudge released it to the hounds
17:59<Sacro>err s/hounds/world/
17:59<yzaLyzarC>So ludde made the original game? He didnt backward engeneer anything?
18:00<Prof_Frink>Chris Sawyer made Transport Tycoon.
18:00<Sacro>no, Chris Sawyer made the original game
18:00<Sacro>and ludde backwards engineered fit
18:00<fjb>Reengeneering never opens the source. You get an alternate source that leads to that executable.
18:01<yzaLyzarC>fjb: To the ecsact same executable?
18:01<Prof_Frink>Sacro: With reference to Marcin's internals that were done for TTDPatch
18:01<fjb>yzaLyzarC: Ofcourse. Start thinking.
18:01<Sacro>fjb: that word requires an i ;)
18:02<yzaLyzarC>fjb: Can it be done with any executaboles?
18:02<fjb>Sacro: Ok, then I buy an i.
18:03<Sacro>can i have an i please bob?
18:03<ln->00:58 < yzaLyzarC> ln-: Definition on the word open-sourcED, bavaward engeenering to get the source code of something. <--- this is YOUR definition of it, but not a commonly accepted definition.
18:05<yzaLyzarC>Open-sourced means to release the source-code, agreed?
18:06<ln->of something you have the source to.
18:06<ln->and you own the source.
18:06<ln->neither of those were true in this case, except on the ludde-orudge scale.
18:07<yzaLyzarC>You dont have to own it, only in some way be able to release it to the general public!
18:07<ln->that is not the commonly accepted definition, i claim.
18:08<fjb>Ludde never had the TTD source code.
18:09<yzaLyzarC>fjb: He made it from assembely, why dont people still code assembely?!
18:09<fjb>Do you still do it?
18:10<Prof_Frink>yzaLyzarC: People do.
18:10<Prof_Frink>patchman for one.
18:10<fjb>People do it in special cases for special reasons.
18:22-!-stillunknown [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:24<yzaLyzarC>I would love to manually put bits on my hd with an magnet
18:25<fjb>Buy a magnet and do it.
18:25<Prof_Frink>yzaLyzarC: Magnet? Pfft. Use a butterfly.
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18:26<yzaLyzarC>Can openttd be run in an ssh console?
18:28<fjb>The dedicated server can without question. The version with the X interface can if you enable X forwarding in ssh.
18:28<@peter1138>fjb, and if you like it slow...
18:29<ln->morning, peter
18:29<fjb>peter1138: He didn't aks for speed. And I don't think speed is important for somebody who wants to manipulate bits on his hard disk using a magnet.
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18:30<Sacro>heh, i've done x-forwarding ottd before
18:30<Sacro>hmm, i just realised i left my laptop next to a 380W subwoofer
18:31<fjb>Sacro: That shouldn't harm it.
18:31<Gonozal_VIII>better chech the hd then
18:31<fjb>Gonozal_VIII: Better use an unified diff.
18:31<Sacro>fjb: it came with a note saying "DO NOT PLACE THIS SUBWOOFER WITHIN 60cm (2 foot) OF ANY PC/MONITOR/TV"
18:32<Sacro>and the box has a "WARNING: MAGNETIC CONTENTS INSIDE" sticker
18:32<Prof_Frink>Sacro: Does it warp the fabric of thyme and space?
18:32<fjb>It would influence the display tube.
18:33<Gonozal_VIII>indeed it does prof, any matter does that
18:33<fjb>But I doubt that it will have any influence on your hd.
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18:37<Sacro>any chance of an L shaped openttd window?
18:37<Sacro>hey Tekky
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18:40<Tekky>hi :)
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18:41<Tekky>I've just been testing the new version of YAPP, I'm impressed :)
18:42<@peter1138>Another new one? :o
18:42<fjb>Hi Tekky
18:42<Tekky>peter1138: I've only tested YAPP version 4 today, although it has been already released 3 days ago.
18:43<@peter1138>Ah right...
18:43<fjb>4.3 is great.
18:44<Tekky>automatic train reversal is a pain in version 4 though, if you mix traditional and PBS signals.
18:44<fjb>You can switch that off.
18:44<@peter1138>Isn't it, Sacro :D
18:45<Sacro>peter1138: what?
18:45<fjb>wait_for_pbs_path = 255
18:45<Tekky>ben_goodger: YAPP = Yet Another PBS Patch
18:46<ben_goodger>thank you
18:46<ben_goodger>I ask only because the wiki lies bereft
18:46<Sacro>Police in the Czech republic are trying to find out who stole a 4 tonne railway bridge from the border town of Cheb.
18:46<Sacro>The company which was responsible for looking after the bridge raised the alarm when, ever alert, they noticed that the bridge wasn't there any more.
18:47<Sacro>how does someone steal a bridge :\
18:47<@peter1138>Sacro, is it the same organisation that keeps losing CDs?
18:47<Tekky>fjb: you can only switch off trains waiting for a PBS paths, but you can't switch off waiting time in front of standard signals. And michi_cc added a feature which prevents trains from moving after reversing in blocks with PBS signals. This causes trains to deadlock in PBS areas when reversing in front of a non-PBS signal.
18:47<fjb>A steel mill disappeared in China about 30 years ago.
18:47<Sacro>peter1138: possibly
18:48<Morloth>peter1138: I though you went to bed? ;)
18:48<fjb>Tekky: Ah, ok.
18:48<Gonozal_VIII>steal mills disappear ingame all the time
18:49<fjb>Where is the chinese rail set?
18:50<fjb>Lots of steam engines and the transrapid.
18:50<Vikthor>Sacro: If you were living here, in Czech republic such news couldn't surprise you anymore
18:50<Tekky>that newGRF railset does not allow any multiplayer, though, because all transportation is monopolized by the state company :)
18:50<ben_goodger>hmm, looks good
18:51<fjb>Perfect for the coop guys.
18:51<@peter1138>g'night again
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18:52<fjb>Oh, he really left.
18:53<Eddi|zuHause3>hm... something is wrong... there is a wagon missing...
18:53<fjb>It got stolen.
18:53<Eddi|zuHause3>i did not get the 120km/h gondola wagon
18:54<fjb>In which year are you?
18:54<Eddi|zuHause3>1986, i got all the other wagons a while ago
18:54<fjb>It comes really late.
18:54<Eddi|zuHause3>no, that is the self discharging wagon that comes in 1990
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18:55<Eddi|zuHause3>but the gondola wagon should come with the others
18:55<Eddi|zuHause3>DB Hochbordwagen rotbraun 1970 30 t Getreide Kohle, Eisenerz, Waren
18:56<Eddi|zuHause3>DB Selbstentladewagen rotbraun verkehrsrot 1990 1997 120 Eisenerz Kohle, Getreide
18:56<fjb>Hm, strange.
18:56<Eddi|zuHause3>they are different wagons
18:56<fjb>I thought about the later.
18:56<fjb>You probably were not nice to MB and this is his revenge.
18:57<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah. sure. :p
18:57<fjb>Do you have any other grf loaded which could cause a conflict?
18:59<Eddi|zuHause3>not that i know of
19:00<Gonozal_VIII>there's no 120km/h wagon for sand and limestone
19:02<Eddi|zuHause3>Gonozal_VIII: then edit the bit mask ;)
19:03<fjb>I guess MB simply forgot that. The ECS extension grf for the DBset XL is only a hack. He didn't have much time to spend on it.
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19:06<Eddi|zuHause3>still, it's just a simple bitmask
19:08<+glx>wait for the next dbset version ;)
19:08<Gonozal_VIII>i made an excel table for that :-) where you select the stuff it should be refittable to and get the hex value for that below
19:09<fjb>It will be released soon, next year maybe.
19:09<Gonozal_VIII>next year != soon
19:09<fjb>And half of the grf is not working because OpenTTD is horribly broken and doesn't implement all the cool features.
19:11<Gonozal_VIII>kann kein griechisch :P
19:11<fjb>You even don't speak german. :-P
19:12<Gonozal_VIII>that's because i speak a much easier and more efficient version of german :P
19:12<fjb>I doubt...
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19:52<Eddi|zuHause3>you should definitely learn more languages, Gonozal_VIII...
19:53<Eddi|zuHause3>fjb: half the cool features are not implemented because there are not enough test cases
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19:53<fjb>Eddi|zuHause3: Don't tell me. I know that.
19:54<fjb>And our PBS is way cooler.
19:54<Eddi|zuHause3>aye ;)
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19:59<fjb>Converting old saves to YAPP is 80% removing signals.
19:59<Tekky> hehe
20:00<Tekky>yes, many signals are redundant now :)
20:00<Eddi|zuHause3>oh yeah, i am still not done with my game ;))
20:01<fjb>And it is far more easy to learn.
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20:10<Morloth>good night everyone! :)
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21:21<fjb>Good night.
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21:40<UnderBuilder>tt-forums down?
21:55<Belugas_Gone>not only tt-forums...
21:57<Belugas_Gone> is down too
21:57<Belugas_Gone>MY UNIVERSE IS DOWN!!!
21:57<+glx>both are in the same data center
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22:01<Eddi|zuHause2>it even got him :p
22:04<Sacro>but then surely the srotu would be gone
22:04<Eddi|zuHause2>the what?
22:05<Eddi|zuHause2>ah, nevermind ;)
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22:30<UnderBuilder>uh oh
22:30<UnderBuilder>searching servers also doesn't work
22:40*Belugas_Gone is tired, he makes stupid mistakes
22:48<UnderBuilder>YOU FEEL ASLEEP?
22:49<Belugas_Gone>at 10:48h PM, yes
22:49<UnderBuilder>I don't know why wrote that in uppercase
22:49<UnderBuilder>maybe because of the metal gear citation?
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22:59<Belugas_Gone>that's it, me is going to bed
23:00<Belugas_Gone>night all
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---Logclosed Thu Feb 21 00:00:29 2008