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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-02-26

---Logopened Tue Feb 26 00:00:16 2008
00:04<Nite>ok i understand
00:04<Nite>i guess
00:05<Nite>if train searches for the depot by it intervall it ignores/does not check the depot order
00:06<Gonozal>that's what i said all the time^^
00:06<Nite>someone said it worked in beta2
00:06<Gonozal>but it didn't
00:06<Nite>i guess so
00:07<Nite>i just know it did in 5.3
00:08<Nite>sry i yust didnt comple4tely get what you mentioned without trying it out by myself
00:09<Nite>so a zero intervall ingame would do it - i still hope its changed ...
00:09<Nite>bla bla
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00:16<Nite>would be nice if service intervalls could be changed by every user and not only for the whol server/game.
00:19<Gonozal>wouldn't work as multiple users can have the same company
00:19<Nite>i see
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00:20<Nite>iam getting to understand why this depot order and autoservice is so delicate
00:21<Gonozal>but being able to set it from 0-800 ingame instead of 30-800 would be nice
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00:21<Nite>it would suck if train goes to a "wrong" depot and then switches to next the order too
00:22<Nite>but with autoservice off it would work anyways
00:23<Nite>thanks a lot - noone could explain this to me so far.
00:24<Nite>any way to see how long a train hasent been serviced?
00:25<Gonozal>last service :-)
00:26<Nite>ok so oyu have to calculate how many days this is by yourself
00:26<Gonozal>well... it's not in days so you have to calculate
00:27<Gonozal>you could suggest to add (x) after the date where x is the number of days...
00:28<Nite>wel i geuss a route taking longer thann 800 days ois unelikely anyway
00:32<Nite>its also tedious taht you cant set the days to 0/800 by typing it in
00:35<Nite>by the way you also can set other umbers ingame and as always a company can be occupied by more players.
00:35<Nite>so why it cant work with this one?
00:36<Nite>i guess it could ...
00:36<Gonozal>which setting should vehicles use?
00:36<Nite>always the one thats set at the date/time they are build
00:37<Nite>... i guess ...
00:37<Gonozal>but with multiple company owners there could be different settings
00:38<Nite>well there coulddnt because you set this for teh company not for the player
00:38<Nite>like the autorenew feature
00:41<Nite>even if it would be set for every player maybee the trains could use the setting by the player thatz build them thenplayer then
00:42<Gonozal>that's not stored in the vehicle info
00:42<Nite>so its stored per company?
00:43<Gonozal>server setting :-)
00:43<Nite>ohh not even by company thats bad ...
00:43<Nite>i slowly get how ttd is built up
00:45<Nite>guess the nearest option is the one click to zero in the vehicles details then ... (and yes thats what you said somehow)
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05:47<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truebrain * r12264 /branches/noai/ (7 files in 3 dirs):
05:47<CIA-1>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Add: added AITileList_vCargoProduction (yorick)
05:47<CIA-1>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Fix: fixed comments around CargoProduction, so now it reflects what is really does
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05:55<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truebrain * r12265 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (16 files): [NoAI] -Add: added a general protection that doesn't allow people using valuators on lists that aren't ment for those valuators
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06:23<ln->hello, elephants.
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06:44<Forked>DJ-Nekkid: kinky..
06:46<DJ-Nekkid>now what?
06:46<@peter1138>Naked DJing?
06:46<Gekz>in french
06:47<Gekz>Je suis.
06:48<DJ-Nekkid>je ne parle pas francoise...
06:48<DJ-Nekkid>and thats about what i know in french :O)
06:48<Gekz>I need to buy azerty stickers for my eee.
06:48<@peter1138>Swap the keys?
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06:52<keyweed>switch to dvorak?
06:52<DJ-Nekkid>dvorek is a norweegian vodka ...
06:52<DJ-Nekkid>or is it polish...
06:52<DJ-Nekkid>atleast buyable in norway
06:55<Gekz>peter1138: ... look up azerty
06:55<Gekz>doesnt matter how many times I swap teh keys, it wont make a cedilla
06:56<@peter1138>Pah, who cares about the symbol keys...
06:56*peter1138 does altgr + = then c...
06:57<Gekz>too much Windows for you
06:57<@peter1138>No Windows at all.
06:58<@peter1138>Yay for cedillas in English.
06:59<Gekz>Facade is a loan word.
06:59*keyweed feels an urge to paste the dutch ij.
07:00<Gekz>dooo it
07:00<keyweed>quite a useles ligature. ij does just as fine as ij
07:00<@peter1138>And also ‘café’
07:02<Gekz>loan word.
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07:05<@peter1138>Actually I’m laughing at the last two entires on under M...
07:06<@peter1138>Entries, of course.
07:06<keyweed>that's a word?
07:06<@peter1138>Half that list would be gone if you removed names.
07:08<keyweed>über, no language should be without über
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07:15<@peter1138># In to outer space
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07:16<Gekz> /* I like comments. */
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07:19<@peter1138>o/˘ Into outer space, with Lucia Pamela
07:19<@peter1138>o/˘ the moon is the place where there's space for Lucia
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07:29*keyweed points in the center of the red lights district.
07:29<Gekz>Red lights district? haha.
07:29<Gekz>it's red light.
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08:19<Phantasm>2 very annoying bugs.. First is that no settings are ever saved unless the game is exited properly. If after, say 10 hours of playing the game crashed all the settings changed before playing, those will all be lost. The savefiles will have the settings of the game you played, but the general settings are gone and must be set again. All those pregame settings should be saved immediately as they are changed.
08:20<Ammler>Phantasm: a export/import function for settings would be fine
08:20<Ammler>btw. thats only a missing feature, not a bug
08:21<@peter1138>It's not a bug, it's a design feature...
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08:21<Phantasm>And for the another bug.. Manual saves are made to saves directory below the game dir and that is also the same place it looks from when opening saves. However, autosaves are made to my documents. It should never put anything to my documents to start with (no-one really wants anything there)... And at least all should go to same place.
08:21<+glx>that depends on where is your openttd.cfg
08:21<Phantasm>I consider it a bug as the program fails to save the settings unless it is exited normally.
08:22<@peter1138>"My Documents" is where your user files should live...
08:22<Phantasm>peter1138: No-one even wants anything to be at my documents even though microsoft idiots think so.
08:22<@peter1138>"No-one really wants anything there" is not true.
08:23<Phantasm>Well, then have a setting for it?
08:23<Phantasm>Those who want it elsewhere can have it elsewhere.
08:23<+glx>that's the only safe place if you have a limited account
08:23<Phantasm>At least the current case of 2 separate folders for different types of saves is a bug.
08:25<Ammler>hmm, autosaves are at MyDocs too, aren't?
08:25<Phantasm>Ammler: Autosaves are in mydocs, every other save and the place it opens saves from are on gamedir/save.
08:26<Ammler>only if you have a openttd.cfg there
08:26<Phantasm>Or well, of course I can manually go to mydocs every time I want to save/load, but that is not so easy.
08:26<Phantasm>All files are where the game put them.
08:26<Phantasm>I don't give a fuck where they are, that is how it works by default and that is where the problem lies.
08:27<Phantasm>Without me modifying thing myself it works as it isn't supposed to work.
08:27<Ammler>hmm, if you don't modify something, every userdata should be at mydocs
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08:27<Phantasm>Well, it isn't.
08:28<Ammler>I guess, you overwrote a old release
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08:28<Ammler>which had all data in gamedir
08:28<Phantasm>I installed the beta3 without having any other version of ottd ever installed on this computer.
08:29<Phantasm>(Of 0.6.0 of course... Haven't played for a while so I don't have beta4 yet. Just remembered the problem now and came to report it.)
08:29<Ammler>and where did you put the origianl GRFs and
08:30<Phantasm>No idea where the installer copied em.
08:30<Ammler>maybe there is the bug (at the installer)?
08:30<@peter1138>It’s possible the installer is making the save/ directory when it shouldn’t do.
08:31<@peter1138>Also, “<Phantasm> I don't give a fuck where they are”... there is no need for that kind of attitude.
08:32<Phantasm>Repeatedly getting they are where the openttd.cfg is after stating everything is as the installer put is makes me grumpy.
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08:33<@peter1138>That does not parse.
08:34<+glx>ok the installer creates a save dir
08:36<Phantasm>peter1138: I stated everything is as the installer put it and even having stated that, I was repeatedly told that they are where the openttd.cfg is... That makes me grumpy. Considering the bug report it has nothing to do at all where whatsoever is as they are where the installer put em.
08:36<+glx>Phantasm: they are where the openttd.cfg is if you don't use the installer :)
08:39<Phantasm>Openttd.cfg is at mydocs and autosaves are there manual save/load open gamedir/save, so that only applies to autosaves.
08:40<Phantasm>Openttd.cfg is at mydocs and autosaves are there while manual save/load opens gamedir/save, so that only applies to autosaves.*
08:42<@peter1138>I was going to try out the installer for a moment.
08:42<@peter1138>Then I remembered that I am not running Windows...
08:42<+glx>peter1138: I tried, and it creates save dir :)
08:45<+glx>hmm ok, for saveload dialog, it checks dir existance in same order as it checks openttd.cfg existance on start
08:45<Phantasm>As for the definition of the program of settings not getting saved prior to proper exiting.. I consider anything causing loss of data significantly after the data was last modified as a bug.
08:46<@peter1138>The installer does? So that needs fixing...
08:46<+glx>so if there's a save dir and no openttd.cfg in install dir it will use this save dir
08:46<Phantasm>Also the fact that if the user makes a save dir (as now the installer does), autosaves and save/load end up to different directory, it is a bug as well. So both installer and the behaviour needs to be fixed.
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08:47<@peter1138>Well fix it then :-)
08:47<Phantasm>Nah, I just like to whine.
08:47<+glx>Phantasm: autosave dir is determined on start from openttd.xfg emplacement
08:48<+glx>save dir is determined everytime you open the saveload window
08:48<@peter1138>(Tip, stating that bugs “need to be fixed” does not motivate anyone to actually fix it. Just stating that there is a bug is enough, as it is obvious that bugs need fixing.)
08:49<Phantasm>Ack.. Been awake for an hour and I'm still dead after sleeping for 16 hours..
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09:41<De_Ghost|other>how i check what module is load on nix?
09:42<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truebrain * r12266 /branches/noai/ (4 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Fix: [API CHANGE] minor typo in Ai*r*portAvailable (tnx yorick)
09:45<De_Ghost|other>what about currently running threads?
09:45<frosch123>"ps" with various options or "top"
09:46<Phantasm>ps aux lists all running processes, if you also wants threads, see man ps
09:47<De_Ghost|other>where you guys learn all these ?:)
09:47<HMage>we ask the man to tell us
09:49<@Belugas>not who...
09:49<@Belugas>man == manual
09:49<De_Ghost|other>what is
09:50<ln->frosch123: bash: lsmod: command not found
09:50<@Belugas>man == nix command
09:50<De_Ghost|other>the man is so long
09:50<frosch123>ln: don't know. no problem on kubuntu and gentoo
09:51<eQualizer>man man
09:52<ln->frosch123: this is SunOS/Solaris 10.
09:53<De_Ghost|other>how i execute something?
09:54<frosch123>if your executable is not in the search path, you have to preceed it with "./"
09:54<+glx>frosch123: ./ means current dir
09:55<frosch123>I know, but I only need it when executing, not when using a file in an other way
09:56<ln->and why might that be?
09:56<frosch123>like "./bin/openttd" works, but "bin/openttd" doesn't.
09:57<frosch123>ln-: I assume to prevent hiding programs in the search path.
09:57<@peter1138>bin/openttd should work...
09:58<frosch123>hmm, true
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10:06<Roujin>cheers LA
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10:14<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truebrain * r12267 /branches/noai/bin/ai/regression/regression.txt: [NoAI] -Fix r12266: forgot to update the regression output (again and again...)
10:14<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truebrain * r12268 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (ai_abstractlist.cpp ai_list_valuator.hpp): [NoAI] -Fix: allow AIList_vRandomize to run over any list
10:15<LordAzamath>I wanted to ask if you can do the same for already constructed stations...
10:15<LordAzamath>I mean you can see the accept tab there
10:16<LordAzamath>and ratings only appear after you have transported that item already
10:18<Roujin>i guess it's possible..
10:18<Roujin>i'll note it and look into it when i'm on that patch again
10:18<Roujin>no but ;)
10:19<Roujin>atm i'm fiddling with my traffic lights tho :P
10:20<LordAzamath>hmm can you (or anyone) suggest me a fine set of new landscape options... I want to start a new game, but I don't want a louzy map as they always seem to be...õ
10:20<LordAzamath>the size, the roughness, the number of industries etc..
10:20<Roujin>high mountains, medium or more water and restrict yourself from terraforming much?
10:20<LordAzamath>tell me sizes first :P
10:21<@Belugas>"sizes first"
10:21<@Belugas>i did
10:21<@Belugas>now what?
10:21<LordAzamath>you didn't say ":P"
10:22<@Belugas>true ;)
10:22<Roujin>maybe something long.. 128*1024 or so?
10:22*LordAzamath svn ups a NIGHTLY
10:23<LordAzamath>not nightly actually
10:23<LordAzamath>but the general name for trunk is... nightlys :P
10:24<LordAzamath>anyway, Belugas, any commits coming in next 5 minutes?
10:24<LordAzamath>I'll take the last revision :P
10:24<LordAzamath>because I'm ready to wait ^^
10:24<@peter1138>The general name for trunk is trunk.
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10:25<LordAzamath>but when it's asked if I play nightlys or stables what should I answer? :o
10:25<LordAzamath>ok.. now compiling
10:26*Roujin made a patch setting that allows random road construction in towns (with lower probability than if it's funded)
10:26<yorick>I would like that
10:27*Roujin just tested it and found that at the highest possible setting it would be extremely annoying for anyone who'd like to make a bus route ^^
10:27<Roujin>have to balance the probability still...
10:29<@Belugas>LordAzamath, nope, no commits from me for a while
10:29<Roujin>actually it's part of my traffic lights patch @yorick, because I made towns place traffic lights themselves during road construction
10:29<@Belugas>at work, no way...
10:29<@Belugas>not currently, that is
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10:32<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r12269 /trunk/os/win32/installer/install.nsi: -Fix: [Win32] don't create save dir on install
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10:44<Roujin>with the random road construction plus traffic lights, it's actually quite fun just to watch some traffic in a town ^^
10:46<@Belugas>you mean vehicles do stop at signals?
10:46<@Belugas>never ran the patch
10:48<Roujin>oh, that's only as of today and on my hard disk... next update i post in the forums will contain it of course ;)
10:48<@Belugas>and is there some sort of synchronization of the lights?
10:48<@Belugas>or is it totally random?
10:49<Roujin>it switches every tileloop
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10:52<Roujin>so.. they're not programmable by the user to create some nice traffic flow or so...
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10:53<Roujin>also, can't give one of the roads priority over the other (meaning its green phase is longer than the other's) - shame, but wouldn't know how to squeeze that in the map array ;)
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11:02<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truebrain * r12270 /branches/noai/ (6 files in 3 dirs): [NoAI] -Add: added AIIndustryList_CargoAccepting and AIIndustryList_CargoProducing, which gives you Industry Lists with from where to where you can move cargo
11:03<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truebrain * r12271 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_industrylist.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix r12270: save before commit
11:09<ln->not funny, end of discussion
11:13<Roujin>my my.. loosen up a little
11:14<Roujin>wasn't meant in a negative way - how many times do i compile and wonder why nothing has changed until i notice i didn't save?
11:14<@Belugas>does not occur while using MSVC
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11:22<De_Ghost|other>how i boot up ui to look like os
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11:25<Eddi|zuHause2><keyweed> quite a useles ligature. ij does just as fine as ij <- (very) old german typesets had "st" and "ck" ligatures (similar to the still existing "sz" ligature (ß))
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11:28<keyweed>Eddi|zuHause2: didn't know about 'st' en 'sk'
11:28<Eddi|zuHause2>up until the spelling reform in 1996, this was still reflected in hyphenating rules
11:28<@peter1138>Spelling reform :o
11:29<@peter1138>r u shure u 1 2 do vat
11:29<Eddi|zuHause2>different kind of spelling ;)
11:29<Roujin>that's why you weren't allowed to seperate st at line's end? interesting
11:30<keyweed>my german isn't all that good unfortunatly. i can read and understand everything that's said but speaking is a bit tough
11:30<Roujin>they never told me exactly why you're not allowed to do this in school
11:30<Eddi|zuHause2>but now you may not separate "ck" (used to be k-k)
11:30<Roujin>i know, i'm german aswell :P
11:31<keyweed>my german is understandable but it makes germans laugh every now and then
11:31<Eddi|zuHause2>doesn't mean you know the new spelling rules ;)
11:31<Eddi|zuHause2>or the old ones ;)
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11:31<Roujin>heh, true enough
11:31<keyweed>dutch and german are very a like. but subtle differences can be embarassing
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11:32<keyweed>'i'm already being served' is 'ik word al geholpen' in dutch, if you translate that litterly in german you get 'ich werde schon geholfen' which translates back to englis as 'i'm already being castrated'
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11:33<Eddi|zuHause2>where do you get "castrated" from?
11:33<Roujin>erm... you sure about that? oO
11:33<keyweed>the girl tending bar in leipzig at wave gotik treffen
11:34<keyweed>she informed me that 'ich werde schon bedient (spelling?)" is the right phrase.
11:35<Roujin>yes, that's correct, but the other phrase doesn't mean you're being castrated, it's just nonsense ;) you may have been made fun of :P
11:37<keyweed>yeah. i know. only fair, we do the same to germans.
11:37<Roujin>'ich werde schon geholfen' is wrong gramatically, correct would be 'mir wird schon geholfen'. and that would translate as 'i'm being helped' rather than 'i'm being served'
11:38<keyweed>well. in dutch, if you're going to have you're cat helped, it means you're going to have him castrated.
11:39<keyweed>don't know if that's the same in german too. 'help' is interpreted differently everywhere :)
11:40<Roujin>ah no, here we don't interpret "help" as cutting of your nuts
11:40<Roujin>i'd be rather angry if i'd recieve such help you know..
11:40<keyweed>ah. we do. some other nations considder bombing the shit out of people 'help'. it's all a matter of perspective :)
11:41<Eddi|zuHause2>no, they "bring democracy"
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11:52<Eddi|zuHause2>hm... autofilling of timetables is pretty useless
11:55<Eddi|zuHause2>i'd rather have an estimation based on distance and (expected average) speed
11:55<Eddi|zuHause2>and setting for loading times
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12:07<Eddi|zuHause2>i have no idea why that tram thing did not disturb anyone before...
12:09<@Belugas>with or without grfs?
12:09<Roujin>that tram thing?
12:11<Eddi|zuHause2>with grf
12:11<Eddi|zuHause2>but should that matter?
12:11<@Belugas>which ones?
12:11<@Belugas>maybe it does matter
12:12<Eddi|zuHause2>"New Tram Tracks v0.4.1" - 46420801
12:12<Eddi|zuHause2>the one with the one-sided pylons
12:12<Roujin>what do you mean with "that tram thing"? i still don't get it
12:13<Roujin>well nvm, i've got to go anyways... see you later
12:14-!-Roujin is now known as Roujin[afk]
12:14<@Belugas>Roujin[afk] , Eddi|zuHause2 posted a bug report. If you want to be in the loop, just get yourself in #openttd.notice
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12:20<Eddi|zuHause2>after some testing, i really like the idea of the vehicle separation patch
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12:34<@Belugas>Eddi|zuHause2, could you provide a screenshot please?
12:34<Eddi|zuHause2>hm... wait
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12:38<@peter1138>It’s realism!
12:38<@peter1138>You’re not allowed to cut trees down these days...
12:46<@Belugas>booo.. confirmed
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13:02<@Belugas>don't even know how to fix that stupid glitch
13:03<@Belugas>wold imply changing the tile to ROADSIDE_PAVED only, but i do not see where nor under which conditions
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13:06<@Belugas>tileloop_road maybe?
13:09<@Belugas>ho... only need to do that on roads crossing tram tracks indeed
13:12<@Belugas>and what about drawroadbits...
13:13<Eddi|zuHause2>Belugas: afaik there recently was a patch to suppress drawing trees under bridges, maybe it is something similar
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13:17<Roujin[afk]>Belugas: what's that #openttd.notice you wrote about? an irc channel?
13:17-!-Roujin[afk] is now known as Roujin
13:18<@Belugas>Eddi|zuHause2, i doubt it is related
13:19<@Belugas>but i have to admit, i know VERY litle about roads
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13:20<@Belugas>well... nothing i can do up until i'm at home :(
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13:20<@Belugas>hoping that i do remember about it :S
13:21<@Belugas>i do have a plan, but i'm not sure where to "attack" it
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13:24<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r12272 /trunk/src/table/bridge_land.h: -Codechange: A bit of code style fixes (tabs instead of spaces), one space too many before macro definition and rename marco MB (MakeBridge) for MBR(MakeBRidge)
13:25<@Belugas>Marco... WAHHH!!!
13:26<Gonozal_VIII>who's marco?
13:27<@Belugas>Marco the macro
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13:32<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truebrain * r12273 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (28 files): [NoAI] -Documentation: big change of many list-related comments. It is now more readable, more explaining, and all unneeded things (API-wise) are removed
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13:34<[1]Roujin>belugas: how does your plan for that bug look like? I think i could do something there, or do you want to do it yourself now?
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13:34<@Belugas>currently, no code yet
13:35<Sionide>bloody ell
13:35<Sionide>anyone remember in windows, how i set it so the user account auto logs on without having to type the password?
13:35<[1]Roujin>i could think of a) disable lamps/trees if tram tracks are present
13:35<@Belugas>it should be done either during tileloop (my prefered way)
13:35<@Belugas>hey Wolf01
13:36<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truebrain * r12274 /branches/noai/src/ai/ai_squirrel.cpp: [NoAI] -Change: [API CHANGE] Removed AITownList_vRandomize, as AIList_vRandomize already does that
13:36<[1]Roujin>or b) draw them according to road and tram bits rather than only road bits
13:37<@Belugas>indeed Roujin, using SetRoadSide, around line 1247 and 1291
13:37<@Belugas>draw.. not too sure about draw, finally
13:37<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truebrain * r12275 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_vehiclelist_valuator.hpp: [NoAI] -Fix r12273: people always find typos AFTER you commit :( (tnx yorick)
13:37<[1]Roujin>problem is b) would add trees and lamps to the sides of tram-only and i don't know how that would look oO
13:37<@Belugas>it shold be a state marked
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13:38<Phantasm>Belugas: Any news for the too little industry and big maps bug?
13:38<nzvip>Newest revision of trunk does not compile for me. ;-;
13:39<@Belugas>Roujin: the idea is : road crossign a tram track? setRoadSide(ROADSIDE_PAVED) or something
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13:39<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truebrain * r12276 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (4 files): [NoAI] -Fix: more typos (tnx yorick)
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13:40<[1]Roujin>you sure you'd rather change the roadside than just prevent drawing the tree/lamps?
13:40<nzvip>Belugas: You know anything about this not compiling?
13:40<nzvip>Or am I missing something?
13:41<@Belugas>could help getting your error
13:41<nzvip>[LANG] Compiling string.cpp
13:41<nzvip>/home/svip/openttd-dev/trunk/src/openttd.h:121: error: expected unqualified-id before ‘<<’ token
13:41<@Belugas>does not ring a bell to me
13:42<[1]Roujin>I mean, the commit by frosch (iirc) that prevented trees&lamps under bridges also just prevented them being drawn, not changed the whole roadside
13:42<nzvip>Is it possible to download an entire new version of the trunk, rather than updating it, Belugas?
13:42<nzvip>I know it is, but I forget the svn command.
13:43<@Belugas>nzvip : svn co svn://
13:43<@Belugas>dunno [1]Roujin
13:43<@Belugas>could be
13:43<@Belugas>nzvip, you could svn revert trunk too...
13:43<@peter1138>Belugas, do it the same way as under bridges.
13:43<Noldo>svn status should tell if there are differences
13:43*NukeBuster is away: Driving lessons (stay inside)
13:44<nzvip>I see a lot of question marks, Noldo.
13:44<@peter1138>Bah, RoR’s recovery truck is useless for things lower than itself...
13:44<[1]Roujin>then the correct place is right before the line: /* Draw extra details. */ <-- in road_cmd.cpp i guess
13:44<+glx>nzvip: looks like a conflict
13:45<nzvip>Entirely redownloading the thing made it work.
13:45<[1]Roujin>there's the check for bridges aswell
13:45<Noldo>new check out is like booting, solutuing for the lazy
13:48<@Belugas>Noldo, that or a new project ;)
13:49<@Belugas>noted peter1138 and [1]Roujin
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13:50<Wolf01>Belugas, do you know I still not understand what are you doing with bridges? :P
13:51-!-SpComb [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:52<[1]Roujin>Eddi: do you have the savegame where you encountered the glitch?
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13:54<+glx>Wolf01: for now he just do some cleanup to make the code easier to understand
13:56<Eddi|zuHause2>[1]Roujin: yes, but it is with Gonozal_VIII's patch pack, and huge
13:56<Eddi|zuHause2>should be easier to just create a new game, or not?
13:57<Gonozal_VIII>what's with my patchpack?
13:58<[1]Roujin>ouch... i failed to make a town with trees on the roadside
13:58<[1]Roujin>turns out i had full details deactivated
13:58<Eddi|zuHause2>haha ;)
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13:59<Gonozal_VIII>strange, the logs stop 16 min ago
13:59<Gonozal_VIII>that could be the reason^^
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14:01<Gonozal_VIII>:S there's different stuff in the logs than here
14:01<[1]Roujin>well I've tried out my proposal b) i mentioned before
14:02<Gonozal_VIII>sooo what were you talking about?
14:02<[1]Roujin>pros: only one little change in code: ...[road] goes ...[road | tram]
14:02<Eddi|zuHause2>Gonozal_VIII: it's a secret
14:02*Gonozal_VIII cries
14:02<[1]Roujin>cons: makes a roadside (even with trees/lamps) for tram only tracks in the town
14:03<[1]Roujin>i'll post a screen at your flyspray entry eddi
14:04<[1]Roujin>uh btw, does newest trunk compile now?
14:06*Belugas is releaved
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14:12<Eddi|zuHause2>hm, my tram system is not capable of bringing the people to the main station anymore...
14:13-!-Maedhros [] has joined #openttd
14:13<Eddi|zuHause2>i need a subway...
14:13<[1]Roujin>oo that notice channel is really interesting
14:15<[1]Roujin>didn't know it's also combined with flyspray ^^
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14:22<Eddi|zuHause2>how does one build a subway without destroying half the city?
14:22<Gonozal_VIII>through coding subways
14:22-!-LordAzamath [] has joined #openttd
14:23<Gonozal_VIII>nobody here
14:23<LordAzamath> is getting a spamattack :O
14:23-!-[1]Roujin [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:24<LordAzamath>it's quite... bad
14:26<LordAzamath>why can't one make a spam report at openttd pastebin?
14:26<LordAzamath>for example allows such thing
14:26<@Belugas>not much that can't be done
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14:27<@Belugas>-can't + can
14:27<LordAzamath>but what can be done?
14:29<@Belugas>just forwarding admin's answer ;)
14:30<LordAzamath>you could have the IP's blocked... although they are probably dynamic...
14:31<@Belugas>Roujin, saw the diff
14:31<@Belugas>looks fine
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14:32*LordAzamath doesn't like homework...
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14:35<@peter1138>What about workhome?
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14:39<LordAzamath>like homeschooling?
14:40<LordAzamath>arghh... Boron is a non-metallic element isn't it?
14:41<@Belugas>maybe. I know Moron is, for sure :)
14:42<Maedhros>LordAzamath: yes
14:42<LordAzamath>you can't write Boron (III) oxide in that case...
14:42<Prof_Frink>Belugas: Moron is non-flammable.
14:42*LordAzamath hopes translation is correct :P
14:42<Maedhros>why not? it's not just metallic elements that have oxidation states ;)
14:43<LordAzamath>but they aren't written that way
14:43<Prof_Frink>'cause, as we know, Oxymoron is self-contradictory.
14:43<LordAzamath>they are written by indexes, not by oxydation levels..
14:43<LordAzamath>hmm.. by???
14:44<Maedhros>erm, which indices? you mean the fact that boron is in group 13? (or 3, if your periodic table is old)
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14:45<LordAzamath>I would say IIIA
14:46<LordAzamath>which means that boron has oxydation level three always, isn't it so...
14:46<LordAzamath>which means even if it would be metallic, the (III) part would not be mentioned..
14:47<Eddi|zuHause2>there is Lead (II) and Lead (IV) oxide
14:47<Eddi|zuHause2>or more commonly, sulphate
14:47<Maedhros>mmm, but lead is a much heavier element
14:48<LordAzamath>Pb is in fourth group
14:48<Eddi|zuHause2>and there is Iron (II) and Iron (III)
14:48<LordAzamath>Fe is not constant
14:48<Prof_Frink>"We're using ACDC because it's heavy metal."
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14:48<Maedhros>and iron is a transition metal, which behave quite differently to main block elements :p
14:49<Prof_Frink>Look Around You S1 ftw.
14:49<Eddi|zuHause2>what exactly is boron anyway? never heard that before
14:49<Prof_Frink>comes before C.
14:49<LordAzamath>and after Be
14:49<Eddi|zuHause2>ah, that is just "Bor" here
14:49<LordAzamath>and boor here :P
14:50<LordAzamath>and Eddi|zuHause2, AFAIK IA, IIA, IIIA group elements have constand oxidation levels...
14:51<LordAzamath>some others too (like Zn), but we don't have to learn them...
14:52<LordAzamath>Eddi|zuHause2: usually?
14:52<Eddi|zuHause2>there's an exeption for everything ;)
14:52<Maedhros>non-integer oxidation states are always fun :)
14:52<LordAzamath>exceptions confirm the rule
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14:54<LordAzamath>:O, I was about to write in English in my chemistry exercise book :O
14:54<Roujin>added fix to eddi's flyspray bug report, secondly afk.
14:55<Roujin>thirdly, probably upping new version of traffic lights later (after dinner ;))
14:56<LordAzamath>someone should poke BigBB to update his road lamps for each position patch..
14:56<LordAzamath>If it's nice, it could be worthy of trunk...
14:57<Eddi|zuHause2>hm... i understand why CBR for rails was not finished, but wasn't there a plan to do CBR for roads at least?
14:57<LordAzamath>:O I have to compare CO and CO2
14:58<Maedhros>as i remember, the C++ port was driven at the time by custom bridgeheads...
14:59<@peter1138>CBR was finished for both roads and rails...
14:59<Eddi|zuHause2>the system was incapable of trains stopping at signals on the bridge heads
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14:59<@peter1138>Then it was made conflicting...
15:00<Eddi|zuHause2>but roads have no signals
15:00<LordAzamath>ok, tis almost the last time I'll mention my homework here :D, does Chlorum have constand oxidation level?
15:01<LordAzamath>Chlorine *
15:01<LordAzamath>what's that?
15:02<Maedhros>-1 ?
15:02<LordAzamath>ok :)
15:02<Maedhros>+7 is... unlikely ;)
15:04<LordAzamath>but +1, +3, +5 are also possible :D
15:06<Maedhros>true, but also unlikely (8-electron rule :)
15:09<Eddi|zuHause2>and i can't put tram stations on bridges...
15:12<Eddi|zuHause2>with the road tiles being full, would CBR for roads actually fit in the map? the 2 bridge above bits could be used for the ramp direction, but there must be a bit for determining if it's a road or rail bridge...
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15:24<LordAzamath>hello fjb
15:27-!-Wolf01 is now known as Wolf01|AWAY
15:28<Sacro>will openttd be participating in GSoC?
15:28-!-Netsplit <-> quits: Rubidium, xand, andyf, dfox, pv2b, ln-, mad_, Noldo
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15:32<LordAzamath>Sacro: What is GSoc?
15:33<Sacro>google summer of code
15:33<LordAzamath>GSOC - German Space Operations Center
15:34<Eddi|zuHause2>yes. sure :p
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15:35<Roujin>german wikipedia says german space operations center; english wikipedia says google stuff :P
15:35<LordAzamath>try google :P
15:36-!-Patrick` [] has joined #openttd
15:36<Patrick`>it's me!
15:36<@peter1138>Oh god, it’s Patrick`
15:37<yorick>wait-that's patrick`
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15:38<Eddi|zuHause2>why does Ctrl+X not work anymore?
15:38<Eddi|zuHause2>(open transparency toolbar)
15:39<Gonozal_VIII>try strg instead of ctrl :-)
15:39<Patrick`>hurrah, someone who remembers that I'm not just a random drifter!
15:40<Gonozal_VIII>hi random drifter
15:40<+glx>ctrl-X works for me
15:40<yorick>wait-that's Gonozal_VIII
15:40<Patrick`>Not That I Am Condoning Copyright Infringement But If Someone Was To Pm Me A Link To The Data Files On A Web Server Somewhere On Account Of I Lost Mine When My Hard Drive Blew Up, I'd Be Very Grateful
15:40<Eddi|zuHause2>then Gonozal_VIII broke it ;)
15:40<Patrick`>also, how's things
15:40<Patrick`>revision 12k, good going
15:41<Patrick`>very funny
15:41<Patrick`>I kinda gave up on ottd back at 3900 or so
15:41-!-[1]Roujin [] has joined #openttd
15:41<+glx>I use clean trunk, so Eddi|zuHause2 is probably right :)
15:41<@peter1138>You want to ... download. transporttycoon. from the .net?
15:41<yorick> *
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15:42<Patrick`>ok, yeah, I coulda just underdogs'd it
15:42<Patrick`>but I forgot about them
15:43<Patrick`>yorick: my apologies to yourself and orudge
15:43*peter1138 ponders adding the ‘kick-off’ acceleration bug back to annoy Patrick`...
15:43*glx slaps yorick: don't post "direct" links here
15:43<Patrick`>peter1138: AARGH
15:43<Patrick`>it's good to see you again :)
15:43-!-Zaviori [] has joined #openttd
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15:43<yorick>I should be able to post links
15:44-!-SmatZ [] has joined #openttd
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15:45<Patrick`>glx: hence the PM, at least I tried ...
15:45-!-dih [] has joined #openttd
15:45<Patrick`>it's very important that we be seen to be actively discouraging copyright infringement.
15:45<Patrick`>which we do do.
15:46<Patrick`>bad bad yorick
15:46-!-Netsplit over, joins: mad_, Noldo, ln-, Rubidium, xand, pv2b, andyf, dfox
15:46*yorick demands a cookie
15:46<Patrick`>ln-! I remember him!
15:46<Patrick`>and Rubidium!
15:46<yorick>besides, it wasn't a direct one
15:47<LordAzamath>Patrick`: Any special reason for highlightning them? :D
15:47-!-Roujin [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:47<Patrick`>I hope to cause a flame war, of course
15:47<yorick>it was a link to a page that had mirror link
15:47<yorick>ok, Patrick`
15:47<LordAzamath>Patrick`: Well, if you REALLY want to...
15:48-!-Gonozal_VIII [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:48*LordAzamath flames Patrick` ... or was it Gonozal_IX?
15:49-!-egladil [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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15:51<LordAzamath>peter1138: That's when it's lightning outside and you are somewhere near high spot, possibly wearing an antenna
15:52<LordAzamath>Gonozal_IX: Why did you come back? :O We had so much fun about talking about you...
15:52<Gonozal_VIII>it takes the stupid irc client 10 minutes to find out that it's disconnected
15:53<+glx>Gonozal_VIII: unplug the connection killer ;)
15:53<Gonozal_VIII>there are two of them now...
15:53*orudge downloads peter1138 from the net
15:54*LordAzamath uploads an orudge to the net
15:54<Gonozal_VIII>why does it take mirc so long to find out that the connection is gone?
15:55<LordAzamath>because your net is slowed down by orudge, who is downloading and me, who is uploading
15:56<LordAzamath>whoah, I had no idea that orudge took 4,5 KB :O. Now I freed half of the space in my computer :O
15:57<Gonozal_VIII>you have a 9kb hd?
15:58<LordAzamath>10KB, but 1KB of that is required for firmware
15:58<Gonozal_VIII>makes sense
15:58<Patrick`>man, I remember when the internet mattered and I used to argue with you all the time
15:59<Patrick`>how's things?
16:00<LordAzamath>Gonozal_IX: I just replied to your thread :)
16:00-!-Axamentia [] has joined #openttd
16:00<LordAzamath>a VERY informative post, one should say...
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16:02<LordAzamath>Gonozal_VIII: You disconnected again?
16:02<LordAzamath>23:00:00LordAzamath Gonozal_IX: I just replied to your thread :)Kasutaja Axamentia ühines kanaliga #openttd 23:00:24 23:00:48LordAzamath a VERY informative post, one should say...
16:02<Gonozal_VIII>don't copy stuff, i read the logs :P
16:03<+glx>and when you copy, do it better ;)
16:03<LordAzamath>never read logs..!
16:03<LordAzamath>glx: NO! Never
16:03<Vikthor>LordAzamath: hehe almost the same answer I gave him here
16:04<Gonozal_VIII>there is some norwayianish stuff...
16:04<LordAzamath>"Please try to include this awesome patch in Gogozal multi-patch project.", so you are now Gogozal_VIII?
16:04<LordAzamath>and it's Norwegian..
16:05<Vikthor>No I told to ask Gonozal, not me
16:06<LordAzamath>I asked Gonozal_VIII, if he is now gogozal :D
16:06<Vikthor>aha :D
16:06-!-Guest94 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:06<[1]Roujin>according to my gf (who understands a little norwegian) he asked for a step by step instruction how to split (?) up the patch(es?)
16:07<LordAzamath>He asked that from Trond??
16:07<Gonozal_VIII>the patches are all in the
16:08<LordAzamath>hmm... you should tell him that :P
16:08<[1]Roujin>oh, nvm, not split..
16:08<Gonozal_VIII>i think i'll include that patch vikthor.. well... if it works^^
16:08<[1]Roujin>misread "spilt" for "split" :D
16:09<LordAzamath>what is spilting?
16:09<[1]Roujin>so he probably asked for a step by step instruction how to _play_ with these patches...
16:10<Gonozal_VIII>through downloading the binary^^
16:10<[1]Roujin>well he wrote that he managed to get it running one post later, so...
16:10<Vikthor>Gonozal_VIII: So far i believe there are no known bugs, but there are few issues, like that malicious player can more easily disrupt your game.
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16:11<Vikthor>anyway that's server admin decision, he can turn the patch off
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16:12<LordAzamath>how many servers are there anyway, which use patched versions, Vikthor?
16:13*LordAzamath goes to sleep soon, be ready
16:13<Gonozal_VIII>i guess most of the patched servers are not announced
16:14<LordAzamath>true, but that also means that if I don't say it aloud, I can't play online with patched client anyway..
16:15<LordAzamath>AND, don't think of my last sentence that I have used your patchpack.. UGH
16:15<Gonozal_VIII>you don't have any friends?
16:15<Vikthor>LordAzamath: I don't know I run one with gonozal's pack and my patch, and judging by number of downloads I am the only one
16:16<@peter1138>GONADS PACK
16:17<Vikthor>Not that I play alone, there are few people from Tycoonez:community, but that's pretty much it
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16:19<fjb>Hm... MiniIN, ChrisIN, GonoIN... see which wins the price for staying maintainable for the longest time.
16:20<Gonozal_VIII><-- very reliable
16:20<Patrick`>can I act all dumb over the new options so someone tells me what to do
16:20<Patrick`>MiniIN is still going? crazy
16:20<fjb>Ignore them. :-)
16:21<Patrick`>someone made better roads, that's good
16:21<Patrick`>"remove absurbd elements"
16:21<Gonozal_VIII>but the patches are all seperate... if one of them gets broken beyond repair because of trunk changes i can just drop it until there is a new version
16:21<Patrick`>town growth modifier, cities, all good and understandable things
16:21<Patrick`>"prospecting", now what's all that about
16:21<Patrick`>manual primary industry construction method
16:22<fjb>You pay the money and eventually that industry gets build somewhere on the map.
16:22<Gonozal_VIII>you fund it, it appears at a random spot on the map... or your money is gone and no industry appears...
16:22<LordAzamath>fjb: It's Gonozal_VIIIIN, not GonoIN :P
16:22<fjb>What roman number is N?
16:23<Gonozal_VIII>i could just go back to long_filename^^
16:23<Patrick`>and "as other industries" means it picks one at random?
16:23<Patrick`>that sounds rather fun
16:23<Patrick`>build, plumb up
16:23<fjb>And who was Gonozal_VII?
16:23<LordAzamath>his predecessor
16:23<Gonozal_VIII>as other industries means you can place it yourself
16:23<Patrick`>aah, duh
16:23<Patrick`>or "none" for not building primaries
16:23<ln->Patrick`: was OpenTTD partially made by using disassembled code from the original TTD exe?
16:23<Gonozal_VIII>nope, not partially^^
16:24<Patrick`>ln-: revision 1 from the original database was the results of a disassembler
16:24<Patrick`>so, entirely
16:24<Patrick`>hence all the structs in the industry layout code
16:24<LordAzamath>no.. there were revisions before r1
16:24<Patrick`>unless they've been polished up
16:24<Gonozal_VIII>the other r1
16:24<Patrick`>LordAzamath: check the log for revision 1
16:24<yorick>@openttd commit 1
16:24<Patrick`>says it was revision 9 hundred and something from the old archive
16:24<@DorpsGek>yorick: Commit by truelight :: r1 / (202 files in 13 dirs) (2004-08-09 17:04:08 UTC)
16:24<@DorpsGek>yorick: Import of revision 975 of old (crashed) SVN
16:24<@peter1138>The other r1 is not the first revision either, of course...
16:24<ln->Patrick`: good, you have learned that much since last time.
16:25<LordAzamath>Ok.. anyway, good night.. You can start flaming me....
16:25-!-LordAzamath [] has left #openttd [Kopete 0.12.5 :]
16:25*Patrick` starts a new game
16:25<fjb>That is alway a good idea.
16:26<Gonozal_VIII>ecs, ecs!
16:26<Patrick`>is the AI still really useless and snarls up the map with shitty track everywhere?
16:26<Patrick`>or else buses up a town and makes it grow bloblike to consume half the map
16:27<Gonozal_VIII>nah, it just messes up the landscape, builds and removes track until its money is gone
16:27*fjb thinks Gonozal_VIII must be a white haired pale and a bit strange looking guy...
16:27<Patrick`>someone polished up "very low" industry density and committed it
16:27<yorick>but the noai ai's are doing prety well
16:28<dih>now that noai is again under dev :-)
16:28<Gonozal_VIII>did you find google fjb?
16:29*fjb remembered the silver coverd books on the attic.
16:29-!-dih [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:29<Gonozal_VIII>on the attic :O
16:29<fjb>Yeah. I read them when I was a kid.
16:30<Gonozal_VIII>the books leave out most of the good stuff...
16:30<@peter1138>Those are the bits your imagination fills in.
16:32<Gonozal_VIII>[22:30:58] <@peter1138> Those are the bits your imagination fills in. <-- huh?
16:32<fjb>The good parts are your imagination.
16:33<Gonozal_VIII>the books are only a short version of the original... you know that, right?
16:33<@peter1138>Are you referring to some particular series of books, or books in general?
16:33<Gonozal_VIII>the ones on fjbs attic^^
16:34<@peter1138>< fail.
16:35<Gonozal_VIII>about 160k pages of finest science fiction :-)
16:35<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truebrain * r12277 /branches/noai/src/ (7 files in 3 dirs):
16:35<CIA-1>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Change: overlay GlobalPointer with local instance access and create sub-node to contain data
16:35<CIA-1>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Change: relay PrintFunc to redirect via overlay and supply AIController with Print, in order to establish bypass of the log created by the AI
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16:37<Eddi|zuHause2>argh, i built this subway to reduce the passenger load, but now i have more passengers waiting than ever...
16:37<Patrick`>wait wait wait
16:37<Patrick`>geeze, how long have I been out of it
16:37<Gonozal_VIII>no subway
16:38<fjb>Finest science fiction? A german science fiction trivial book series from the 60s.
16:38<Gonozal_VIII>from 1961 until forever!
16:39<Patrick`>the subway is a lie
16:39<Patrick`>but what about the cake
16:40<Gonozal_VIII>they predicted the moonlanding to be 1971...
16:40<fjb>Yeah, every week a book. Written very hasty by a lot of different auther.
16:41<Gonozal_VIII>!!! don't talk that way about the bestest of the best, nothing is besterer!
16:41<Gonozal_VIII>sorry... bester
16:41<fjb>But it's the truth. Scifi for small money.
16:42<fjb>If you like good Scifi from the 60s then read Lem.
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16:43<ActySofts>hello people
16:43<fjb>Hello ActySofts
16:44<ActySofts>Anyone with knowledge of C(++) and UTF-8 (and the W32 API preferably, but optional)? I need some help.
16:44<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truebrain * r12278 /branches/noai/projects/ (openttd_vs80.vcproj openttd_vs90.vcproj): [NoAI] -Fix r12211: MSVC project files weren't generated correctly
16:44<Gonozal_VIII>don't ask that kind of stuff, ask your question directly
16:44<ActySofts>OK then.
16:45<ActySofts>Does it matter if UTF-8 is stored as signed or unsigned char? It might be a pain to cast everything to signed char for use with most of the Windows API.
16:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truebrain * r12279 /branches/noai/projects/ (openttd_vs80.vcproj openttd_vs90.vcproj): [NoAI] -Fix r12211: by mistake committed new files in MSVC project files that .. well .. aren't done yet ;)
16:46<Eddi|zuHause2><Patrick`> subway? <- not a real subway, but a railway that is one level below the town, with tunnels to not destroy it all
16:46<Eddi|zuHause2>but the new PBS are awesome ;)
16:46<@peter1138>ActySofts, I doubt it cares.
16:47<ActySofts>Well, at least here, MSVC shouts at me for doing it.
16:47<Gonozal_VIII>somebody wrote about that signed char stuff some days ago... i still don't get it, wtf is a signed char
16:47<@peter1138>Gonozal_VIII, ‘char’ is C-ese for ‘8 bit data type’
16:47<@peter1138>Being an 8 bit value, it can be signed or unsigned.
16:47<ActySofts>it's a char that can represent from -128 to 127, which is by defautl the same as char, while unsigned uses the whole byte for postitive, up to 256
16:47<Eddi|zuHause2>Gonozal_VIII: the bit representations are exactly the same
16:48<ln->ActySofts: 255
16:48<ActySofts>0 = 256 ;)
16:48<Gonozal_VIII>silence the warnings with a cast :-) i did that with the comparison of signed and unsigned int crap too...
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16:49<ActySofts>I'd do that but I' not sure if there are issues with that
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16:49<ActySofts>as casting to a signed representation from an unsigned one that goes beyond signed limit could break some stuff
16:50<ActySofts>but then I'm not sure, that's why I'm asking in the first place
16:50<@peter1138>Just use 'char', you shouldn't need to use signed or unsigned anywhere.
16:50<Gonozal_VIII>btw if char is the 8 bit stuff, what's byte then?
16:51<ActySofts>well OTTD tells MSVC to treat char as unsigned and it uses UTF-8 (I believe), so that's one reason for the question
16:51<ActySofts>8 bits = byte
16:51<@peter1138>byte does not exist.
16:51<ActySofts>*1 byte
16:52<Gonozal_VIII>wtf byte does not exist
16:52<ActySofts>typedef unsigned char byte; >.<
16:52<Gonozal_VIII>there are lots of bytes in the code
16:53<@peter1138>See what ActySofts wrote.
16:53<ActySofts>byte means 8 bits, it's just like a meter being 10 decimeters
16:53<Gonozal_VIII>i know that :P
16:53<Gonozal_VIII>i can do java but c data stuff is complicated
16:54<ActySofts>C data stuff...well C++ isn't as much
16:54<ActySofts>the thing is with C & C++ being static languages
16:54<ActySofts>use Python if you don't want to deal with low-level stuff
16:54<[1]Roujin>Gonozal: typedef unsigned char byte; <-- that means "if i write 'byte' somewhere in the code, treat it as if i'd written 'unsigned char' ;)
16:55<ActySofts>yes, sort of
16:55<ActySofts>it's an alias
16:55<ActySofts>but unlike #define byte char, typedefs ensure proper type-checking
16:55<Gonozal_VIII>what's the point with uint8?
16:56<Maedhros>i'm pretty sure gcc will ignore it if you mix byte and uint8
16:56<Eddi|zuHause2>hm, the paxdest gets horribly confused when lines have multiple transfer points
16:56<ActySofts>(that's what I've been told, but in what way does it provite it?)
16:56<@peter1138>uint8 follows the style of uint16 and uint32
16:56<ActySofts>Maedhros: kinda all compilers ignore it's an alias, so there shouldn't be any differences
16:57<ActySofts>also, exactly what benefit does typedefs provide over #defines?
16:57<@peter1138>#defines are ugly ;)
16:58<ActySofts>#define _T(x) L ## x --> not much you can do in other ways
16:58<@peter1138>"#define byte unsigned char" would not work
16:58<@peter1138>Cos I would disallow it ;D
16:58<ActySofts>good reason LOL
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17:00<ActySofts>OK, so peter, you are suggesting m to use plain char to store UTF-8, but in openttd MSVC is told to make it unsigned, why?
17:01<@peter1138>Probably MSVC is a bitch...
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17:01<ActySofts>umm, the projects are set with /J (treat char as default unsigned)
17:02<ActySofts>so is it done for a purpose or it's an overlook?
17:02<@peter1138>Well you need to be doubly sure with MSVC...
17:03<ActySofts>heh, a few days ago MSVC gave me errors in the windows headers O_o
17:03<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truebrain * r12280 /branches/noai/ (7 files in 4 dirs): [NoAI] -Add: added AICargoList (Morloth)
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17:03<ActySofts>I was like "WTF?! You guys can't manage your own stuff? How did ya compile MSVC with then? GCC?!"
17:04<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truebrain * r12281 /branches/noai/projects/ (openttd_vs80.vcproj openttd_vs90.vcproj): [NoAI] -Fix r12280: forgot to update MSVC project files
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17:04<ActySofts>truebrain: you forgot to do that twice in a row?
17:05<ActySofts>hmm, he doesn't seem to be on IRC
17:05<@peter1138>Never mind, it is only a branch...
17:05<Morloth>peter1138: It's THE branch ;)
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17:19<ActySofts>For x64, is `int' 64-bit or 32-bit?
17:19<+glx>probably 64
17:19<@peter1138>Generally 32 for compatibility...
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17:19<@peter1138>Or something silly...
17:19<+glx>right there are long int for 64 bits
17:19<Sacro>48 for the average
17:19<@peter1138>Tron would know.
17:20*peter1138 feeds Sacro with 37 bit data types.
17:20<fjb>Why not 23 bit?
17:21<@peter1138>Because 23 is not 37, obviously.
17:21<ActySofts>sizeof(int) = sizeof(long) + 1 ;)
17:21<fjb>But 23 bit would get him eventually iluminated.
17:21*SmatZ likes __attribute__ ((mode (TI)))
17:22<Maedhros>good night
17:23-!-SmatZ [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:23<@peter1138>Yes, good idea...
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17:27<Patrick`>this AI seems to like building airports a lot more than it used to
17:29<ActySofts>g'night here, too
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17:32<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r12282 /trunk/projects/generate.vbs: -Fix (r12123): generate.vbs should not skip files in NO_THREADS section of source.list
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17:34<[1]Roujin>sooo.. play a little with my updated TL patch and leave me some comments, will ya? ;)
17:35<[1]Roujin>where TL = traffic lights
17:35<[1]Roujin>good night
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18:01<Patrick`>it seems the wiki is lacking junctions that utilise "build anything you damn well want to under a bridge"
18:01<Patrick`>I had the default AI just build a bridge, then build a loop of track under the bridge and running parallel to it :(
18:02<Gonozal_VIII>wiki junctions suck and ai does that
18:03<Patrick`>anyway, and Normalised so that 4-tile trains don't hit double-turn slowdown, if that code's even used any more for realistic accn
18:03<Phantasm>I almost never find any need for any weird junctions..
18:04<Patrick`>great minds think alike :)
18:04<Patrick`>I do my middle with bridges, I don't use build on slope for prudish reasons (it's ugly)
18:05<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truebrain * r12283 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_industry.hpp: [NoAI] -Fix: document that GetProduction can return -1 if the Industry doesn't produce the Cargo (tnx Progman)
18:05<Patrick`>signals on bridgeheads would be possible
18:05<Patrick`>yours is nicer, less ups and downs
18:05<Gonozal_VIII>more slopes with bridges...
18:06<Patrick`>I built it back when RA allowed a fully laden maglev to do top speed as long as it didn't corner
18:06<Gonozal_VIII>i tried to minimise them too
18:06<Patrick`>I think we minimised it as much as possible
18:06<Phantasm>Literally anything can be transfered with a track pair (one for each way).. And generally there isn't need for that much multiple stuff to go to same station that having different rails wouldn't be a problem.
18:06<Patrick`>the shortest turn is 7 half-tiles
18:07<Gonozal_VIII>or 6 if it goes on in the same direction
18:07<Patrick`>I thought a sideways kink wasn't penalised no matter how small it was
18:07<Patrick`>I'd experiment but it's zed time
18:07<Gonozal_VIII>hmm right
18:07<Gonozal_VIII>but there was something with 6^^
18:07<Patrick`>I've done sidesteps of features before
18:08<Patrick`>my mainline's been going on the same x-axis for 600 tiles, then I find a bit of landscape. Hurrah.
18:08<Patrick`>I do like
18:08<Patrick`>merge-before-split tho
18:08<Gonozal_VIII>yes, that's a problem there
18:09<Gonozal_VIII>but not a big one
18:09<Patrick`>yeah, you really gotta cram it up
18:09<Patrick`>was the crappiness associated with multiple-width track junctions ever sorted out?
18:09<Gonozal_VIII>trains can do u-turns if they really need to...
18:09<Patrick`>as in, trains would pile onto one line until it was full
18:10<Patrick`>I tried to build a flip-flop train splitter but never succeeded
18:10<Patrick`>then we started to make nand gates and got distracted
18:10<Gonozal_VIII>well, yapp looks 10 signals ahead by default... a full line has most of them red so high penalty
18:10<Gonozal_VIII>not yapp
18:11<Patrick`>very nic
18:12<Patrick`>so if I space out my signals a bit more and add cross-tracks, it'll naturally load balance
18:12<Patrick`>very very nice
18:12<ben_goodger>how long before openttd is turing-complete?
18:12<Patrick`>it is.
18:13<Patrick`>we made nand gates
18:13<ben_goodger>I mean IO
18:13<ben_goodger>one could just about implement a microprocessor using little shunters
18:13<Patrick`>they take some time to reset, though, because a little train has to go back to the start of the gate :)
18:13<Patrick`>--> z
18:14<Gonozal_VIII>and then port openttd to that^^
18:15<ben_goodger>seriously, 8486 in openttd
18:15<ben_goodger>you'd have to use maglevs [for speed :P], but you could do quite complex stuff with it
18:16<Gonozal_VIII>don't juse could all the time... you can
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18:17<ben_goodger>well, it hasn't been done yet, so it's still a "could", as in "potential"
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18:45<foe>Can I change the cargo weight multiplier in the cfg?
18:46<foe>It doesn't have a variable
18:46<foe>There's FreightWagonMult in src/train.h, but there's no FreightWagonMult in the cfg.
18:47<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truebrain * r12284 /branches/noai/ (9 files in 5 dirs): [NoAI] -Add: added AICargoList_v(IsFreight|CargoIncomes) (Morloth)
18:47<foe>So freight_trains = 1 means the train is twice as heavy when loaded?
18:48<Gonozal_VIII>it's a factor
18:48<foe>...multiplying a weight factor of each type of goods?
18:49<Gonozal_VIII>everything with the is_freight flag
18:52<foe>Is there any way to set the cost of construction to a higher factor than "high"?
18:53<Gonozal_VIII>there's a grf that lets you change costs
18:53<Gonozal_VIII>at least one..
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19:01<foe>But that means everybody playing need to have that grf installed?
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19:14<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r12285 /3rdparty/squirrel/ (include/squirrel.h sqstdlib/sqstdstring.cpp): [Squirrel] -Add: added scsnprintf, scfprintf and scvsnprintf
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19:23<Progman>scvsn-printf? the abbrevation is almost longer than the actually function namen
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19:24<+glx>the function is vsnprintf or vsnwprintf (depending on _UNICODE)
19:25<+glx>and the sc prefix is the squirrel standard
19:25<Progman>scvsnwutf8mbsprintf \o/
19:29<foe>Initial loan also has to be changed through a grf file?
19:29<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r12286 /branches/noai/src/ (ai/ai_squirrel.hpp squirrel.cpp squirrel.hpp): [NoAI] -Fix (r12277): restore compilation with _UNICODE
19:29<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm i don't know if a grf can change that
19:30<+glx>no it cannot
19:30<Gonozal_VIII>so you have to change the code for that
19:35<Gonozal_VIII>i guess you could also change the code to enable grfs to do that^^
19:36<Gonozal_VIII>or something like that..
19:37<foe>My problem is that the game is too easy. I'd like to set up a hardcore-hardcore server.
19:37<Gonozal_VIII>try vehicle grfs with more expensive purchase and running cost
19:38<foe>That's the problem again, then everybody need those grf's.
19:38<Sacro>"you have made a middle aged man very happy)"
19:38<Gonozal_VIII>sold your body again?
19:38<foe>Are there *any* non-middle-aged men playing openttd? ;)
19:39<Gonozal_VIII>depends on your definition of middle aged...
19:39<Gonozal_VIII>and i've heard rumors about the existance of female players
19:39<foe>Oooo =)
19:39<foe>I almost persuaded one.
19:40<+glx>foe: is £100 000 too much ?
19:40<Sacro>Gonozal_VIII: yes there are
19:40<foe>In my case, middle-aged would mean the age of 32.
19:40<Sacro>i've played with a few
19:40<Sacro>@seen SAC^
19:40<@DorpsGek>Sacro: I have not seen SAC^.
19:40<foe>glx: How much is that in DM? 300 000?
19:40<Gonozal_VIII>just because they have a female nick doesn't mean they are female :P
19:41<+glx>yes DM 300 000
19:41<foe>Yes, it's too much. I imagine a hardcore game where players are *forced* to start with buses and lorries in order to built a train route.
19:41<Gonozal_VIII>dm? there is something called euro if you haven't noticed^^
19:42<foe>Heh, I noticed. My mother's from Germany so my vacation memories of Germany usually involve DM's :>
19:42<foe>Sacro: I assume
19:42<Gonozal_VIII>german currency
19:42<+glx>you can use high interrest rate (4%), low subsidies multiplicator (x1.5), high construction costs
19:43<foe>glx: Still too easy.
19:43<Gonozal_VIII>yep, nothing of that makes it challenging
19:43<+glx>with normal vehicle breakdows
19:43<Gonozal_VIII>even mountainious maps are easy with default stuff
19:43<Gonozal_VIII>but grfs can make it a lot harder, you should use them
19:44<+glx>high running costs
19:44<+glx>and try other climates
19:45<foe>I'm thinking: a guy running a simple train route without synergy, constantly sending empty cars back to the pick-up spot, should go bankrupt. That kind of hard.
19:46<foe>Which would imply about ten minutes of planning and pondering before you settle for a route.
19:46<foe>Most online maps today are more about building than thinking.
19:46<+glx>yeah they use too flat maps
19:47<+glx>with no water nor anything hard in landscape
19:47<+glx>low number of industries and towns can make things harder too
19:47<foe>Exaclty. Makes the game mechanic somehow.
19:47<foe>That's true
19:50<Gonozal_VIII>you can't make the game that hard without grfs or changing the code
19:50<Rubidium>you actually can
19:50<Rubidium>just limit the number of road vehicles to about 5-10 and the number of other vehicles to 0, then high running costs etc.
19:51<Gonozal_VIII>ok, that would be hard... but wouldn't make much sense
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19:52<Gonozal_VIII>but you could do rvs/ships only with a reasonable limit
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19:54<Gonozal_VIII>rvs would be more fun with diagonal roads, highways, road signals/waypoints and stuff like that
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20:01<Gonozal_VIII>what earthquake?
20:01<Sacro>Gonozal_VIII: the whole fucking city just shook
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20:02<Gonozal_VIII>since when are there earthquakes in gb?
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20:02<Axamentia>I felt it to man
20:02<Sacro>Gonozal_VIII: since 00:57 GMT
20:02<Axamentia>I mean my monitor moved
20:02<Sacro>yeah, as did mine
20:02<Sacro>everything fucknig moved
20:02<Toby>We just had an earthquake a few days ago where I live
20:03<Axamentia>I thought my building was falling down or something
20:03<Gonozal_VIII>maybe just some nuclear tests in your area :-)
20:04<Gonozal_VIII>what's the speed of sound in rock?
20:05<Gonozal_VIII>but i guess i can't notice anything here anyways
20:05<Axamentia>Sacro that was a pretty violent earthquake, well not violent, but heavier than the ones we had a few years back
20:10<Gonozal_VIII>Between 200 and 300 quakes occur in Britain each year, but only about 10% are strong enough to be felt. <-- oh... 20-30 that can be felt... here i didn't notice a single one since i can remember
20:11<Gonozal_VIII>except some vibrations from avalanches...
20:11<Axamentia>Weve had a few minor ones Gonozal, and manchester was hit with ones in 2002 or something
20:11<Gonozal_VIII>yes i just read about that
20:12<Axamentia>But that was heavy i mean, the whole room shook and my monitor actually moved
20:12<Gonozal_VIII>hmm i never experienced an earthquake
20:12<Phantasm>Earthquake "simulator" is nice.
20:14<Eddi|zuHause2>we have had a mine collapsing
20:15<Eddi|zuHause2>but it was at night, and i was too far away to notice anything
20:16<Axamentia>4.7 on the richter scale
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20:18<Phantasm>Over 10 would be nice. ;P
20:18<Phantasm>4.7 is still light.
20:18<Gonozal_VIII>i guess i would have noticed that here
20:19<foe>Here you go Sacro:
20:19<foe>Tell them your monitor jumped.
20:19<foe>So do you guys use the in-game menu to find multiplayer games or are there better sources?
20:20<Gonozal_VIII>tell them it broke, maybe you can get some insurance money^^
20:20<Gonozal_VIII>i only play with people i know
20:20<foe>They'll probably just send him some silver tape.
20:20<+glx>all advertised servers are in the in-game list
20:21<+glx>but you can use "private" servers too (not advertised)
20:21<+glx>they are not in the list though
20:21<foe>glx: Just a matter of finding them then
20:22<+glx>yes you need to know the owner, or someone playing on it
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20:22<foe>In what way can I mod the game and still play online? I'm thinking 32-bit graphics, new train sets a s o.
20:22<Gonozal_VIII>32 bit stuff is only local
20:23<foe>Modified trains sets aren't?
20:23<+glx>32bpp is just a cosmestic thing
20:23<Gonozal_VIII>can't be, everybody has to use the same trains
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20:23<foe>Yes, and the same visualization of the trains it would seem.
20:24<Gonozal_VIII>i guess you could change that
20:24<+glx>you can override train images with 32bpp
20:24<Gonozal_VIII>but only the sprites, no data
20:25<foe>Do you guys use any of the 32bpp candy?
20:25<Gonozal_VIII>it slows down the game quite a lot...
20:25<Gonozal_VIII>at least for me
20:26<Phantasm>The highest ever recorded earthquake is 9.5 on Richter scale.
20:28<foe>Seems to me there's this uncoordinated sea of tiny 32bpp files floating around in forum threads. Is there some kind of "big 32bpp experimental show-off package"?
20:30<Gonozal_VIII>tar files.. you don't need to unpack them
20:31<Gonozal_VIII>or something like that... didn't use much 32bpp stuff
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21:50<@Belugas>question: you havd an array of struct inside a class. You want a function that returns a pointer to an element of this array.
21:50<@Belugas>hoiw would you declare and define it?
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21:55<Eddi|zuHause3>too unspecific question...
21:55<Eddi|zuHause3>but i have a PBS bug
21:55<Eddi|zuHause3>an electric train cannot reserve a path into an electric station, when the continuing track is unelectrified and has no signal
21:58*Belugas does not care about pbs
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23:00<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r12287 /trunk/src/table/bridge_land.h:
23:00<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Codechange: Give meaning to two other bridges sprites arrays.
23:00<CIA-1>OpenTTD: A bit of re-indenting too
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23:26<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r12288 /trunk/src/table/ (bridge_land.h sprites.h):
23:26<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix(r12287): forgot to include two sprite renames out of consistency.
23:26<CIA-1>OpenTTD: And obviously forgot to compile before committing, as the array rename would have been evident.
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---Logclosed Wed Feb 27 00:00:55 2008