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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-03-01

---Logopened Sat Mar 01 00:00:00 2008
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02:07<Forked>meep meep..
02:14*Eddi|zuHause2 unpacks the newest ACME box
02:24<Forked>that MIGHT backfire =p
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03:16<dih>good morning ladies
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03:17-!-mode/#openttd [+o peter1138] by ChanServ
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03:19<Draakon>hello everyone
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03:30<bumblebee>nooish question incoming, how do i add these patches ->, to the game?
03:31<Alberth>Maybe with BuildOTTD?
03:32<Draakon>bumblebee; Download this patch: and use BuildOTTD to patch the source and compile
03:32<Draakon>if you want all the patches in
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03:42<Tefad>homestarrunner eh
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03:46<Poopsmith>hehe yep Tefad
03:58<bumblebee>i got compiled failed when i opened the gonozal patch with buildttd thingy
03:59<bumblebee>any suggestions to what could have gone wrong?
04:02<Eddi|zuHause2>try to compile without patch first
04:02<Draakon>are you sure you got r12180?
04:03<bumblebee>how do u check that? so sorry im realy new in this stuff
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04:04<Draakon>first of all, what are you running in? Windows, Mac or Linux?
04:04<bumblebee>win XP
04:04<Draakon>and with what you got the nightly source?
04:06<bumblebee>i dont know what you mean :S
04:07<Draakon>do you even know what nightly is?
04:07<bumblebee>well, no :S so far i have just played openttd
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04:08<Draakon>well then i think you are playing in plain binary, aka 0.60 beta 4?
04:09<bumblebee>0.5.3 it says when i start the game
04:10<Draakon>the patch you are trying to apply cant be applied to 0.5.3 or 0.6.0 Beta 1-4, only plain Nightly
04:10<Eddi|zuHause2>bumblebee: there should be a compiled version of gonozal's patch pack
04:10<Eddi|zuHause2>just use that one
04:11<Draakon>Bumblee: check this page for more info on nightly
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04:19<Draakon>wtf? since when in daylenght patch you can increase the daylenght factor over 36?
04:19<bumblebee>nightly is the latest openttd patch correct?
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04:20<Draakon>its the latest version you can get with the newest features and fixes
04:21<Draakon>and being updated 24/7
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04:26<Draakon>dam it
04:28<Draakon>i need a tutorial course on PBS
04:30<Draakon>path based signaling
04:30<Draakon>feature that is in Patch but being made for OpenTTD currently(avabile from development forum)
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04:46<Poopsmith>i'll have to look at it... from the name, it sounds useful
04:47<Draakon>indeed its usefull
04:48<Draakon>you know the very basic T-Junction where all the railways crossed each other?
04:48<Draakon>aka this
04:49<Draakon>well PBS lets 2 trains coming from north for example be on the same junction at the same time if they both go south
04:49<Draakon>or one takes a turn that the other wont be interrupted
04:50<Poopsmith>so multiple trains can enter an intersection, provided they won't collide?
04:50<Draakon> and
04:50<Draakon>check those pages i gave for more info
04:50<Poopsmith>that will often make things easier
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04:51<Poopsmith>then again, i'm still getting used to things like presignals :P
04:52<Draakon>i just got to play PBS for the first time
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05:10<@peter1138>Bah, you can’t load and unload cargo at the same station :(
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05:15<Draakon>you can
05:17<@peter1138>Not from and to it.
05:17<@peter1138>I have a coal mine next to a steel mill.
05:18<Draakon>that kind of system wont give you no income
05:19<Draakon>but it is possibile if you build at the beginning a 7 tiles long station, destroy 1 tile in the middle and build a railroad there. Then after that make a train that makes a full load and unload on that same station
05:19<Draakon>but the train wont make no profit
05:20<@peter1138>Careful of your double negatives there.
05:21<@peter1138>"Won't make no profit" does not mean what you meant to say.
05:22<Draakon>so you say they make some money?
05:22<Draakon>if they load and unload at the same station
05:22<@peter1138>No, you're saying they do.
05:22<@peter1138>They won't make a profit.
05:23<@peter1138>They will make no profit.
05:23<Draakon>i sayd wont
05:23<Draakon>not they will
05:23<@peter1138>You said "they won't make no profit" which means they will.
05:24<Draakon>won't is a no word
05:24<Draakon>will is a yes word
05:24<Draakon>i said the no word
05:25<Yexo>you said the no word with another no after it (no profit)
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05:25<Yexo>but if you just give a full load order, trains do unload if they can't, don't they?
05:25<Yexo>* if they can
05:26<Draakon>onyl full
05:26<Yexo>ok, wasn't sure about that
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05:27<@peter1138>I'm using road vehicles, anyway.
05:27<@peter1138>And they won't unload.
05:27<Draakon>then do this
05:27<@peter1138>Even with an unload order.
05:27<@peter1138>I just made a second stop ;)
05:27<Draakon>build a station-road-depot
05:27<Draakon>in that order
05:27<Draakon>if you do like this
05:28<Draakon>when they have full loaded, they go to depot and then back to station for unloading
05:28<Draakon>and when unloaded, the same time full load
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05:32<Draakon>peter, you have iron ore mine and steel mill together right?
05:32<@peter1138>Coal and steel.
05:32<@peter1138>Using Pikka's industries.
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05:34<Draakon>any vehicle newgrfs?
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05:37<Draakon>my game crashed of testing the above explained system
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05:40<@peter1138>I'm using grvts
05:43<Draakon>i quess i have mistaken by the RVs but the trains should have get some money
05:43<Draakon>if using only 1 station as load&unload
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05:50<Gonozal_VIII>12:25:35 < Yexo> but if you just give a full load order, trains do unload if they can't, don't they?
05:50<Gonozal_VIII>12:25:46 < Yexo> * if they can
05:50<Gonozal_VIII>12:25:57 < Draakon> no
05:50<Gonozal_VIII>12:26:00 < Draakon> onyl full
05:50<Gonozal_VIII>full load unloads first if the station accepts
05:51<Draakon>it doesnt
05:51<Draakon>full load only full loads
05:51<Draakon>nothing else
05:51<Gonozal_VIII>does too
05:51<Yexo>Now I'll go test :)
05:51<Gonozal_VIII>my passenger lines always have full load on both sides
05:51<Yexo>that's right!
05:52<Yexo>And I sometimes have busses with full load on two stations, that'd never work if they didn't unload
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05:52<Draakon>Gonozal: are you even using some patches?
05:52<Yexo>hi LordAzamath
05:52<Gonozal_VIII>has nothing to do with patches
05:53<Draakon>they change stuff
05:54<Gonozal_VIII>if that doesn't work anymore it's a bug in the patch
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05:54<Gonozal_VIII>only loading at a station that accepts the cargo is transfer and take cargo
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05:56<Draakon>pff, wtf?
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05:57<Draakon>ah fucking internet
05:57<Gonozal_VIII>could happen to me too anytime... stupid storm
05:57<Gonozal_VIII>power gone for some split seconds and router resets
05:57<Draakon>it wasnt power failure
05:57<Draakon>for me
05:58<Draakon>something is wrong with my internet this days
05:58<Gonozal_VIII>these :-)
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06:00<Gonozal_VIII>usually not but singular/plural stuff should be right..
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06:04<Draakon>ah g2g cya
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06:05<dih>that is the only kid i know that can join, swear, feel the urge to tell us that he has to leave, and leave
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06:06<Alberth>dih: rofl!
06:07<guru3>c, time el
06:07<guru3>wrong channel... *whistles*
06:07<Gonozal_VIII>was that spanish or something?
06:07<Gonozal_VIII>because of the el^^
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06:10<guru3>no spanish involved
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06:16<dih>whatd does questionmark do here?
06:17<Patrick`>idle, I guess
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06:35<dih>questionmark: help
06:35<questionmark>dih: (help [<plugin>] [<command>]) -- This command gives a useful description of what <command> does. <plugin> is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin.
06:36<dih>questionmark: list
06:36<questionmark>dih: Admin, Alias, Anonymous, Channel, ChannelStats, Config, Ctcp, Filter, Format, Games, Herald, Insult, Internet, Later, Math, Misc, Network, News, NickCapture, Nickometer, Note, Owner, Plugin, Protector, Quote, Reply, Seen, Services, Status, String, Time, Topic, URL, User, Utilities, and Web
06:36<roboboy>questionmark are you a supybot?
06:37<Wolf01>and now why my irc started to type by itself?
06:37<Wolf01>ah, the list..
06:38<Wolf01>i thought it was enabled only for the italian channel
06:38<Wolf01>ok, another if statement on the script
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06:39<Gonozal_VIII>italian openttd channel?
06:39<Gonozal_VIII>are there many italians playing openttd that can't write english?
06:39<Wolf01>because there is an italian community too?
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06:41<dih>talking of italians
06:41<dih>i ordered 4 pizzas yesterday
06:42<dih>it took them an hour to fine me
06:42<dih>ONE HOUR
06:42<Wolf01>maybe you ordered directly from italy
06:42<dih>that's what i said ^^
06:43<dih>in fact i said if i had ordered directly from italy it would have gotten here faster
06:45<Patrick`>oh no
06:45<Patrick`>an hour for pizza
06:45<Patrick`>it's bizzare that specifically a lot of italians should be attracted to the game
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06:59-!-mode/#openttd [+b questionmark!*@*] by peter1138
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07:42<Yorick>peter1138: ...
07:43<Yorick>is that done for a reason?
07:43<LA[lord]>why is ? banned?
07:43<Yorick>if it's because its a bot, what is DorpsGek doing here?
07:44<Yorick>and me?
07:44<LA[lord]>and SpBot
07:44<Yorick>13:59:53 -!- mode/#openttd [+b questionmark!*@*] by peter1138
07:45<Patrick`>unsolicited bot, probably
07:46<Yorick>and I'm solicited?
07:46<LA[lord]>Patrick`: What does unsloicited mean?
07:46<Patrick`>didn't ask for it, didn't know the person who runs it
07:46<Patrick`>just randomly turned up one day
07:47<Yorick>it turned up today
07:47<LA[lord]>it didn't randomly turn up either...
07:47<Yorick>it was just logging things
07:47<Patrick`>I dunno the story
07:47<Yorick>guru3 is logging things aswell
07:47<LA[lord]>Yorick has introduced it too..
07:48<Yorick>ok, it won't be here anymore... as long as you make it like I CAN JOIN FROM MY HOME IP
07:50<guru3>eh? what's this about me?
07:50<Yorick>you're logging things too
07:50<Yorick>for displaying on a website
07:50<LA[lord]>but ?`got banned
07:50<guru3>not for displaying
07:51<guru3>i just generate stats
07:51<guru3>i'm also a real person though
07:52<Yorick>should I ask permission to use you as an example the next time?
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07:52<Yorick>__I just told__
07:53<Yorick>peter1138: why?
07:53<LA[lord]>Yorick: I doubt he is @KB reight now
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08:08<Purno>any php-scripter available who can help me with something which should be fairly easy?
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08:22<Eddi|zuHause2>why can people never ask _real_ questions?
08:22<Forked>does anyone know computers?? I need help
08:24<Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause2: are you going to correctly answer those real question?
08:24<Eddi|zuHause2>i can't answer without the question.
08:26<Rubidium>How's the system used in Tokyo to prevent overflows of canals due to typhoons called? It's a series of tunnels and resevoirs.
08:28<Eddi|zuHause2>see... at least that is a question that i know that i don't know the answer to.
08:28<Eddi|zuHause2>besides, it is missing a questionmark
08:28<Rubidium>but... it has been on discovery channel
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08:35<Rubidium>hmm, that sucks; you have to understand Japanese to go on the tour for 'security reason'. It's called the Edogawa River Project or G-Cans Project if you're interested in it.
08:38<Yorick>why is questionmark banned?
08:38<dih>what do you need it here for?
08:38<Yorick>logging while I'm not here
08:44<Yorick>< Eddi|zuHause2> besides, it is missing a questionmark <-- yes, we know questionmark isn't here :D
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08:57<dih>Yorick: logs are also at
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09:18<Yorick>try on #openttdcop
09:22*glx adds that to the kick script :)
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10:29<Eddi|zuHause2>uuups ;)
10:29-!-bumblebee [] has joined #openttd
10:30<ln->it wasn't me!
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10:41-!-Yorick was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.]
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10:42<+glx>it works :)
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10:45<Yorick>I still want to know the reason questionmark is banned
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10:47<LA[lord]>ln-: monorail?
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11:16<Eddi|zuHause2>hm... r12252 does horrible things with YAPP... but i don't know enough of the code to figure it out...
11:18<+glx>but it was a request from YAPP coder :)
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11:19<Eddi|zuHause2>yes, but i can't find an updated yapp
11:20<Gonozal_VIII>updated yapp?
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11:21<Gonozal_VIII>i want new yapp, gimme gimme
11:21<Eddi|zuHause2>learn to read, would you?
11:22<Gonozal_VIII>just because you can't find it :P
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11:25<Eddi|zuHause2>ah, Gonozal_VIII, what i wanted to ask... cargo generation amount is divided by daylength, yes? what about passenger generation?
11:26<Gonozal_VIII>nothing divided
11:26<Gonozal_VIII>longer days, more cargo...
11:27<Gonozal_VIII>wouldn't be much to transport otherwise
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11:34<LordAzamath>!seen skidd13
11:34<LordAzamath>@seen skidd13
11:34<@DorpsGek>LordAzamath: skidd13 was last seen in #openttd 6 days, 18 hours, 22 minutes, and 30 seconds ago: <skidd13> LordAzamath: ??? I do
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11:35*Yorick has to go for 2 hours or more now
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11:49<LordAzamath>can dorpsgek convert decimal to hex?
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11:51<SmatZ>@base 16 4096
11:51<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: 16534
11:51<SmatZ>@base 10 16 4096
11:51<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: 1000
11:55<LordAzamath>@base 10 16 1283
11:55<@DorpsGek>LordAzamath: 503
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12:07<Gonozal_VIII>Train Crash near Brühl! 416 die in fireball after collision with tree
12:08<SmatZ>Gonozal_VIII: seriously?
12:08<Diabolic-Angel>For a second I thought that was real news o0
12:08<Diabolic-Angel>then i saw the channel name
12:08<Gonozal_VIII>well... +-416 dead... and maybe there was no fireball..
12:09<Gonozal_VIII>but an ice hit a tree today
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12:13<Eddi|zuHause2>the poor tree
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12:14<Gonozal_VIII>yes, i'm quite sure the tree didn't survive
12:17<SmatZ>it was dead already before the train crashed
12:17<Eddi|zuHause2>well, with a storm like this, something was bound to happen
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12:17<Gonozal_VIII>it was stormy here too... for about half an hour
12:18<Eddi|zuHause2>the whole day now
12:18<Roujin>it even snowed where i live
12:19<Gonozal_VIII>my mother said that she saw parts of a plastic roof that almost hit parked cars... the poor cars
12:19<ln->i wouldn't dare to travel on TTD trains. 100% mortality rate in every accident.
12:20<Roujin>something completely different.. I made a new signature for my patches in the forum, what do you think about it? 8)
12:20<LordAzamath>yeah... A small bump with front engine and last wagons all explode
12:20<Gonozal_VIII>i would go everywhere by ship... they are 100% save
12:20<LordAzamath>Gonozal_VIII: And 100% slow
12:20<Gonozal_VIII>but you don't die^^
12:20<Eddi|zuHause2>and 100% CPU power ;)
12:21<Forked>ln-: not if a train hits a bus.. the train is fine and keeps going?
12:21<ln->Forked: well, yes. but then i wouldn't want to be in that bus.
12:21<Eddi|zuHause2>ln-: why rand() and not Random()?
12:21<Forked>but you'd look great as an invisible pixel
12:22<Eddi|zuHause2>would probably solve the multiplayer bit
12:22<ln->maybe i didn't remember Random() back then.
12:24<Eddi|zuHause2>ln-: what happens with an empty train?
12:24<Eddi|zuHause2>i kinda fear division by 0
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12:24<Gonozal_VIII>hmm is modulo 0 bad too?
12:24<ln->it is
12:24<ln->depending on platform
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12:24<SmatZ>you have at least 2 drivers
12:25<Eddi|zuHause2>yes, but he does num-2
12:25<Gonozal_VIII>leave that +2 stuff out..
12:26<ln->or, use PPC where division by zero does not crash a program.
12:26-!-yorick is now known as Yorick|brb
12:27<Gonozal_VIII>rand % num should be enough... why should the crew have no chance of survival?
12:27<hylje>because the train FUCKING BLOWS UP
12:27<hylje>all of it, not just the loco
12:28<Gonozal_VIII>there should be different result based on speed... only a long breakdown for slow trains or something like that
12:28<Eddi|zuHause2>why would potentially undefined behaviour be preferable to crash?
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12:29<Gonozal_VIII>imho it should just be defined as something in pc use.. integer division has strange rules anyways
12:31<Gonozal_VIII>x / 0 = max value of the data type or something like that
12:31<ln->one could argue that integer overflow should also crash a program, like division by zero does on many platforms.
12:31<ln->Gonozal_VIII: on PPC, x / 0 appears to be 0.
12:33<Gonozal_VIII>openttd would crash at least every few hours if overflow would crash stuff
12:33<Gonozal_VIII>_tick_counter is always increased, never set back
12:42-!-Yorick|brb is now known as Yorick
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12:48<Eddi|zuHause2>Gonozal_VIII: no, the other way round, it would have been programmed to catch that
12:50<Eddi|zuHause2>ln-: but cyclic addition is a good mathematical foundation, whereas x/0=0 is a totally random definition
12:50<Eddi|zuHause2>besides, the processor sets an overflow flag, which makes it an exact result of the addition (just you have one bit too many)
12:51<Eddi|zuHause2>and i know the borland pascal compiler had a flag to tell wether overflow should cause a crash/exception
12:52<Eddi|zuHause2>only the C definition says "ahh... f*ck it"
12:54<ln->0 == avg(-inf, inf)
12:54<ln->(i'm not serious)
12:56<Eddi|zuHause2>lim[n->inf](avg(-n,85*n)) == ?
12:57<SmatZ>depends on your definition of avg
12:57<ln->we'll divide both by infinity, and get avg(0,0) == 0
12:57<Eddi|zuHause2>avg(x,y) = (x+y)/2
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12:58<Eddi|zuHause2>and i would really like to see how you get to -inf on that one ;)
12:58<SmatZ>lim[n->inf](avg(-n,n)) = lim[n->inf]((n-n)/2) = lim[n->inf](0) = 0
12:58<SmatZ>[18:56:16] <Eddi|zuHause2> lim[n->inf](avg(-n,85*n)) == ?
12:58<SmatZ>errr I read it as "-n, 0,85*n"
13:00<ln->SmatZ: misreading the formulas doesn't significantly affect on the validity of these theorems.
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13:46<LordAzamath>@base 10 16 2676
13:46<@DorpsGek>LordAzamath: A74
13:47<ln->@base 9 26 8134
13:47<@DorpsGek>ln-: 8KG
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13:49<ln->@base 26 10 peter1138
13:49<@DorpsGek>ln-: Error: Invalid <number> for base 26: peter1138
13:49<ln->@base 26 10 PETER1138
13:49<@DorpsGek>ln-: Error: Invalid <number> for base 26: PETER1138
13:49-!-divo [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:49<@peter1138>You need base 36, I'd imagine.
13:50<@peter1138>@base 36 10 PETER1138
13:50<@DorpsGek>peter1138: 71688864595652
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13:51<@peter1138>Now I don't imagine.
13:51<ln->ah, true.
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13:59-!-mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ
14:00<Sacro>what a coincidence...
14:01<Gonozal_VIII>bloody shoes - knights in wild satan
14:03<ln->Bjarni! :D
14:03<ln->let's count Bjarni's telephone number
14:04<ln->@base 36 10 BJARNI
14:04<@DorpsGek>ln-: 697543038
14:04<Gonozal_VIII>why 36?
14:05-!-Digitalfox [] has quit [Quit: Bye]
14:05<ln->why not?
14:05<Gonozal_VIII>that's not a good answer...
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14:15<Forked>I tried that once as a kid
14:15<Forked>it was flamy
14:18<Yorick>why did you feel like +b questionmark?
14:18<Gonozal_VIII>stop talking to yourself in public
14:26<LordAzamath>he wasn't talking to himself
14:26<LordAzamath>he was talking to peter1138
14:27<Yorick>yes good, I scared LA away :(
14:27*LordAzamath is scared away
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14:53<+glx>Gonozal_VIII: 36 = 0-9a-z
14:55<SmatZ>@base 10 37 100
14:55<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: base <fromBase> [<toBase>] <number>
14:55<SmatZ>@base 10 36 100
14:55<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: 2S
14:55<+glx>hehe it can't write base 37 numbers
14:55<+glx>not enough chars
14:57<SmatZ>@base 10 36 2176782335
14:57<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: ZZZZZZ
14:58<+glx>@base 36 2 glx
14:58<@DorpsGek>glx: 101010000010101
15:00<Gonozal_VIII>@base 10 36 1337
15:00<@DorpsGek>Gonozal_VIII: 115
15:00<ln->@base 10 1 1337
15:00<@DorpsGek>ln-: base <fromBase> [<toBase>] <number>
15:01<Gonozal_VIII>base 1?^^
15:05<De_Ghost> ConfigFile();
15:05<De_Ghost> ~configFile();
15:05<SmatZ>@base 10 2.81 3
15:05<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: 11
15:06<De_Ghost>@base 10 1 1337
15:06<@DorpsGek>De_Ghost: base <fromBase> [<toBase>] <number>
15:06<De_Ghost>@base 10 2 1337
15:06<@DorpsGek>De_Ghost: 10100111001
15:06<De_Ghost>@base 10 1337 1337
15:06<@DorpsGek>De_Ghost: base <fromBase> [<toBase>] <number>
15:07<De_Ghost>what a rip off
15:07<+glx>De_Ghost: constructorsµ/destructors for class ConfigFile
15:07<De_Ghost>obviously that's 1
15:07<De_Ghost>ah ok thx
15:07<De_Ghost>what does it do?
15:07<De_Ghost>do i need to do sumthing with it?
15:07<+glx>init/deinit the object
15:08<De_Ghost>what's #ifndef CONFIG_READ
15:08<De_Ghost>#define CONFIG_READ
15:08<+glx>like you malloc stuff in constructor and you free it in destructor
15:08<+glx>recursive include protection
15:10<Eddi|zuHause2>De_Ghost: there are no number literals for base > 36
15:10<De_Ghost>it should draw some pictures !! ::)
15:10<De_Ghost>err glx
15:10<De_Ghost>can u look at this quickly for a sec
15:10<Eddi|zuHause2>De_Ghost: the babylonians had a base 60 system
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15:24<SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause2: did they have 60 symbols?
15:25<Eddi|zuHause2>SmatZ: it was... complicated...
15:25<Gonozal_VIII>two symbols
15:27<Gonozal_VIII>a symbol for one and a symbol for 10
15:28-!-redmonkey [] has joined #openttd
15:28<redmonkey>hi. how do i send money to other companies?
15:28<redmonkey>the patch is activated
15:28<@Bjarni>as you can see the Babylonians used a 60 number system, hence the reason why we have 60 minutes in each hour
15:28<LordAzamath>hold down the man with the hat button
15:28<LordAzamath>>client list
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15:29<@Bjarni>sometimes reasons for something is way older than you might think
15:29<LordAzamath>hold down the client you want to send money (IIRC) and choose send money
15:29<ln->Bjarni is awake after all!
15:30<Gonozal_VIII>they coul have used 9 of those 10symbols instead of just 5 and we would have a 100 minute system...
15:30<Gonozal_VIII>or 5 of both... you can show that with your hands...
15:32<Gonozal_VIII>assuming you have 5 fingers on each hand...
15:32<redmonkey>LordAzamath: doesn't work like that
15:32<Gonozal_VIII>and a total of 2 hands
15:32<@Bjarni>ln-: you might be unaware of it but I am able to not stay on IRC all the time
15:32<LordAzamath>redmonkey, perhaps
15:33<@Bjarni>it's not like I have nothing else to do ;)
15:33-!-planetmaker [] has joined #openttd
15:33*LordAzamath hasn't said that yet
15:33<+glx>redmonkey: the other company should have at least a client
15:33*Bjarni adds LordAzamath to the ignore list
15:33<ln->Bjarni: with a proper video driver, you could more easily apple-tab between the game and IRC.
15:34<@Bjarni>ln-: that's not an issue
15:34<LordAzamath>Bjarni, if you do.. I'll get some invitations ready :(
15:34<@Bjarni>I'm too busy for OTTD :(
15:34<redmonkey>oh i see, i cant send money to AI players? :)
15:34<LordAzamath>redmonkey, no
15:34<LordAzamath>it's only for multiplauer
15:35<redmonkey>ok, thanks for helping
15:35*LordAzamath likes multiplauer much more than multiplayer.. Sounds better
15:36<LordAzamath>Yorick, if he has ignored ?, then he surely hasn't ignored the other
15:36<LordAzamath>which means... the channel is too small for a hostile takeover
15:41<Yorick>he has banned ? ;)
15:41<LordAzamath>he has been banned*
15:42<LordAzamath>by evil peter1138
15:42<+glx>someone is asking for a ban :)
15:43<Gonozal_VIII>will you ban everybody again like you did yesterday?
15:43<LordAzamath>glx, Well if you really really want.. But it does have side effects :D :P
15:44<LordAzamath>[22:42] <+glx> someone is asking for a ban :) >>>
15:45<+glx>my question was for the side effects :)
15:45<ln->i'd like translations for the following two strings: GenericName="Text Editor", Comment="Fast, extendable programmers' text editor"
15:46<ln->danish, estonian, french, ...
15:46<Eddi|zuHause2>didn't you already ask that?
15:46<Gonozal_VIII>a lot
15:47<ln->Eddi|zuHause2: yeah, but didn't get answers for e.g. danish, estonian, french.
15:47<+glx>Comment="Editeur rapide et extensible, pour les programmeurs"
15:48<+glx>I let you guess the language :P
15:48<+glx>Editeur de texte
15:48<+glx>but "de texte" can be omitted
15:48<+glx>I think
15:48<Eddi|zuHause2>it was estonian ;)
15:49<LordAzamath>ln-: GenericName="Tekstiredaktor", comment="Kiire, paindlik programmeerijate tekstiredaktor" Estonian
15:49<LordAzamath>something like that
15:50<LordAzamath>but I'm afraid it isn't the best sentence...
15:51<LordAzamath>pole tänu väärt :)
15:51<ln->fortunately, it's not a sentence at all, since there is no verb.
15:51<LordAzamath>Eddi|zuHause2, and you have no idea about Estonian...
15:51-!-thomas_ [] has joined #openttd
15:51<LordAzamath>ln-, doesn't matter
15:51<Eddi|zuHause2>LordAzamath, and you have no idea about irony.
15:53<ln->Bjarni: is danish advanced enough to be used to express the strings above?
15:53<LordAzamath>ln-, Doubt that
15:54<Eddi|zuHause2>ln-: just do a random mix between swedish and german ;)
15:54<Eddi|zuHause2>and sprinkle in some ø
15:55<ln->let's see... "Schnabb, utbyggbarer textredigerare før programmiererare"
15:56-!-Yorick [] has left #openttd [leave leave quit!]
15:56<@Bjarni>what sentence? :)
15:57<Gonozal_VIII>btw what does that o / thingy sound like?
15:57<@Bjarni>ø <- like that :P
15:57<Gonozal_VIII>great answer :P
15:57<ln->Gonozal_VIII: østerreich
15:57<Gonozal_VIII>that's ö
15:57<@Bjarni>ö isn't used in Danish
15:58<Gonozal_VIII>so that's exactly the same?
15:58<ln->Bjarni: 22:45 < ln-> i'd like translations for the following two strings: GenericName="Text Editor", Comment="Fast, extendable programmers' text editor"
15:58<@Bjarni>not entirely but damn close
15:58<SmatZ>ln-: GenericName="Textový editor", Comment="Rychlý a rozšiřitelný textový editor pro programátory" Czech
15:59<@Bjarni>also when used by itself it's a valid word :)
15:59<Gonozal_VIII>:S what does it mean?
16:00<ln->also å by itself is a valid word, at least in swedish.
16:00<@Bjarni>it would appear that the 500 islands in Denmark made the word so common that people had to be able to say it quickly... or something
16:00<@Bjarni><ln-> also å by itself is a valid word, at least in swedish. <-- in Danish too
16:00<LordAzamath>oo oo oo
16:00<Eddi|zuHause2><Bjarni> island <- they use the word so often, so it has to be short? :p
16:01<SmatZ>"a i k o u v z" are valid Czech words...
16:01<SmatZ>and "s"
16:01<Eddi|zuHause2>i can't think of any one-letter-words in german
16:01<Eddi|zuHause2>even one-syllable words are quite hard to find
16:01<ln->SmatZ: nouns or prepositions?
16:01<Eddi|zuHause2>where in english you can have whole conversations with those
16:01<SmatZ>ln-: prepositions...
16:01<Gonozal_VIII>ugh ugh ugh^^
16:02<SmatZ>and connectors
16:02<ln->Bjarni: so, are you satisfied with "Schnabb, utbyggbarer textredigerare før programmiererare"?
16:02<SmatZ>Ook! Ook? Ook! :-D
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16:03<ben_goodger>you forgot Ooook
16:03<@Bjarni>ln-: isn't it "tekst"?
16:03<@Bjarni>or did Swedish vandalise that word?
16:03<ln->Bjarni: definitely "text" in swedish
16:03<@Bjarni>nice to know
16:04<ben_goodger>and esperanto ^^
16:04<LordAzamath>tekst is much more nicer :D
16:04<LordAzamath>(is in Estonian too :P)
16:04*SmatZ just found is valid C code
16:05<planetmaker>^^ that makes the letter x kind of unneccessary...
16:05<ln->Wolf01: text editor en italiano?
16:05<Eddi|zuHause2>the article is funny... it says "meanwhile there are more Ook! interpreters than Ook! programs" ;)
16:05<ln->Wolf01: e "Fast, extendable programmers' text editor"?
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16:05<SmatZ>you have Ook! <-> brainfuck coverters... written in both languages :-)
16:06<planetmaker>SmatZ: ah... shouldn't it be valid C?
16:06<SmatZ>planetmaker: I didn't know C standard allows that
16:07<Eddi|zuHause2>SmatZ: what should be the semantics of that?
16:07<@peter1138>SmatZ, original style parameters... urgh...
16:07<ln->that's pre-C89 syntax
16:07<Eddi|zuHause2>reminds a little of fortran
16:07<SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause2: the same... default "int" everywhere, "int main(int argc, char *argv[])"
16:07<Phantasm>How much does high station spread limit increase the cpu usage?
16:08<LordAzamath>peter1138, you can unban questionmark now.. He is (perma I guess) offline
16:08<Eddi|zuHause2>Phantasm: the bigger the stations are, the longer it takes to walk all surrounding tiles for cargo production
16:08<SmatZ>it reminds me of "old" verilog (pre-01 I think)
16:09<Phantasm>Eddi|zuHause2: Does that take any cpu time in reality?
16:09<Eddi|zuHause2>Phantasm: i have not done any profiling
16:09<Eddi|zuHause2>but generally, that code is run pretty often
16:11<+glx>SmatZ: it is old style
16:11<Phantasm>I suppose I should test it out myself then.
16:11<@peter1138>LordAzamath, I could, but I can't be bothered.
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16:12<ln->another one
16:13<Draakon>another one what?
16:13<ln->nothing, just an observation.
16:13<@peter1138>It's an invasion.
16:13<Eddi|zuHause2>he could proofread the translation ;)
16:13<LordAzamath>You want me to call kratt too?
16:13<Draakon>invasion? since when? :P
16:13<@Bjarni>and the politicians said that the people in the east wouldn't show up here even if they joined EU
16:13<@peter1138>Since a minute ago ;)
16:14<LordAzamath>We, Draakon, invade this channel
16:14<@Bjarni>btw that's a public joke now because there are Polish workers everywhere
16:14<Draakon>LordAzamath; Not enough of our kind here to invade it :P
16:14<LordAzamath>Haha.. I know alot Estonians even in the forums
16:14<LordAzamath>I could arrange something
16:15<Draakon>i know 1 in the channel and 5 on forums
16:15<LordAzamath>Draakon, I know three in IRC
16:15<@Bjarni><LordAzamath> Haha.. I know alot Estonians even in the forums <-- this indicates that you even know some who aren't on the forums
16:15<@Bjarni>I would never have imagined that
16:15<LordAzamath>Bjarni, well.. that's obvious
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16:16<@Bjarni>no it isn't
16:16<Draakon>to my question
16:16<@Bjarni>you are online
16:16<Draakon>Any PBS experts here?
16:16-!-thomas_ [] has quit []
16:16<@Bjarni>you could be a geek not knowing anybody around you but you could know people in all other countries
16:17<Gonozal_VIII>isn't that normal?
16:17-!-Leviath [] has joined #openttd
16:17<Draakon>Is someone here that has used PBS for long time?
16:17<@Bjarni>Gonozal_VIII: he just claimed that it's not the case in his case
16:17<Gonozal_VIII>then he's not normal
16:18<Gonozal_VIII>ban him!
16:18<Draakon>ban who?
16:18<LordAzamath>geek = normal? not really
16:18-!-mode/#openttd [+b *!*LAlord]@*] by Bjarni
16:18<Gonozal_VIII>no... geek == normal
16:19-!-mode/#openttd [-b *!*LAlord]@*] by Bjarni
16:19<@peter1138>Draakon, YAPP?
16:19-!-LordAzamath [~LAlord]] has left #openttd []
16:19<Draakon>geek=person who is intelligent aka has more brains but doesnt have power and sex appeal
16:19<Draakon>peter1138: Yes
16:19*peter1138 uses it..
16:19-!-LordAzamath [~LAlord]] has joined #openttd
16:19<@Bjarni>Draakon: you just claimed that I'm not a geek
16:20<LordAzamath>ban him
16:20<@Bjarni>why should I ban him twice?
16:20<Draakon>well, bjarni, are you super smart but dont get any dates?
16:20<@peter1138>Bjarni has no brains? That sounds reasonable...
16:20<Draakon>i havent been banned
16:20<LordAzamath>Bjarni, you banned me
16:20<LordAzamath>not him
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16:21<@Bjarni>I banned some Estonian... you guys are all alike :P
16:21<Gonozal_VIII>just ban *.ee
16:21<LordAzamath>Yes LA[lord] is me
16:21<ln->han kan banna, banna dig så hårt
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16:21<Draakon>lets just ban *.at
16:21<@peter1138>So, er... what about YAPP?
16:22<@Bjarni> <peter1138> Bjarni has no brains? That sounds reasonable... <-- that's not what I meant
16:22<Draakon>Oh yeah
16:22<ln->som alltid vaktar alla som är här
16:22<Draakon>Peter1138; In some screenshots i saw people use only PBS signals instead normal, is this action normal and does it have some advances?
16:22<@Bjarni>it was more like I can say that I got all 3 "items"
16:23<Eddi|zuHause2>Draakon: you should not mix PBS and normal signals
16:23<@peter1138>YAPP was designed to be all PBS signals, it just happens to allow non-PBS signals.
16:23<Eddi|zuHause2>can have nasty sideeffects
16:23<@Bjarni>I mean.... after all how many of you have had to reject girls who wanted you but you didn't want them
16:23<Draakon>why not Eddi?
16:24<@peter1138>Using all-PBS means you won't get any problems with mixing them, (er, obviously)
16:24<SmatZ>Draakon: because *BOOM*
16:24<Draakon>but i cant have some advances of presignals aka having track priorities for example
16:25<Eddi|zuHause2>Draakon: the main rule to mix them is: do not have normal signals leading into the same block as PBS signals, you can have different entry and exit signals, though
16:25<@Bjarni>see.... nobody yelled "ME"
16:26<@Bjarni>in fact you all ignored the question as a stupid one indicating that it's too far from your world
16:26<@peter1138>michi_cc has done an outstanding job on making PBS and normal signals play nicely.
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16:27<@peter1138>Draakon, another reason is, at least for me, I just set the patch option to place PBS signals by default, and that's all I place.
16:27<Gonozal_VIII>bjarni, i had to...
16:27<planetmaker>^^ Bjarni: is there a point you're going to make...?
16:27<Draakon>but can you combine presignals and PBS somehow?
16:27<@peter1138>There is no need to
16:28<Draakon>there is for me
16:28<Eddi|zuHause2>Draakon: then you probably used them improperly
16:28<Draakon>like service area exits going to ML and i want ML have priority over service area lines
16:29<@Bjarni> <planetmaker> ^^ Bjarni: is there a point you're going to make...? <--- since I tried that and you didn't then it should indicate that I have more sex appeal than you guys indicating that I actually have some
16:29<@Bjarni>that sounded wrong
16:29-!-mode/#openttd [+b *!*Bjarni@*] by peter1138
16:29<@peter1138>you don't have talk some shit
16:29-!-mode/#openttd [-b *!*Bjarni@*] by Bjarni
16:31<Eddi|zuHause2>,%2012.%20Jul%201933.png <- that is how i use PBS
16:32<Gonozal_VIII>don't post links until you have finished uploading :P
16:32<Eddi|zuHause2>'t says 100% here...
16:32<Draakon>is that even possibile for image uploaders?
16:32<@Bjarni>well... as I said then what I said ended up sounding wrong
16:32<Gonozal_VIII>that's not an image uploader
16:33<Draakon>oh well
16:33<Gonozal_VIII>that station looks a bit oversized..
16:33<Draakon>i guess i cant build OpenTTDCoop style networks with PBS then
16:34<LordAzamath>no-one asks you to use it ^^
16:34<Draakon>but i want to
16:34<Eddi|zuHause2>Gonozal_VIII: length or width?
16:34<Gonozal_VIII>width.. but probably both
16:34<Draakon>i dont know how do build in the other style
16:34<Eddi|zuHause2>Gonozal_VIII: there are 5 train lines (excluding the "subway")
16:35<Gonozal_VIII>that doesn't look like a subway at all
16:35<planetmaker>Bjarni: so you want us to acknowledge that you at least HAVE sex appeal - in contrast to some random subjects in lurking int this channel? Well... if you feel better :)
16:35<@peter1138>Draakon, you can, you just need to place them carefully.
16:35*planetmaker getting quite off topic...
16:36<Eddi|zuHause2>Gonozal_VIII: no, but it is one level lower than the city
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16:36<Gonozal_VIII>and there are no trains on the platforms... therefore it is either new and the trains haven't arrived yet or it is way too big
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16:36<Draakon>is this mixing bad?
16:37<@peter1138>Draakon, of course, there is the caveat that YAPP is not designed for placing signals every other tile or so...
16:37<Gonozal_VIII>mixing is always bad
16:37<@peter1138>Draakon, mixing there will work, however it offers you no advantage.
16:37<Eddi|zuHause2>Gonozal_VIII: the tracks are not fully developed yet... the station is planned for future expansion
16:37<Eddi|zuHause2>(including 8 tile ICEs in the far future)
16:37<@peter1138>Well, minor...
16:37<planetmaker>Draakon: should be ok...
16:38<@peter1138>PBS signals are designed to be placed at 'safe waiting points'
16:38<Gonozal_VIII>very tight corners... nothing for fast trains
16:38<@peter1138>and those 'exit' signals there are not safe waiting points
16:38<@peter1138>(in that they block other paths)
16:38<Eddi|zuHause2>that signalling looks very wrong
16:38<Gonozal_VIII>because it is
16:39<Draakon>last question, if i build only PBS in the junctions like i showed in the pictures and at the entrance of stations while rest being normal and presignal, it will be safe?
16:39<Draakon>good then
16:39<Gonozal_VIII>not 100%
16:40<@peter1138>You lose a big advantage of YAPP PBS signals by placing them willynilly.
16:40<Gonozal_VIII>trains could turn around at normal signals and block stuff
16:40<Eddi|zuHause2>but they should not crash anymore
16:40<Draakon>why did i ever install PBS then
16:40<Gonozal_VIII>just don't use normal signals
16:41<Draakon>but i want for building some OpenTTDCoop style stuff
16:41<Eddi|zuHause2>as someone stated in the forum recently. you have to unlearn a lot that you know about signals
16:41<Gonozal_VIII>and place signals only on places where trains can stop without blocking anything
16:42<Gonozal_VIII>you need a lot less signals
16:42<Eddi|zuHause2>mainly i would advise you to not have signal distance closer than 1 train length
16:42<@peter1138>Yes, YAPP PBS basically offers no advantages for OpenTTDCoop style of playing
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16:42<@peter1138>Only for simplied station entrances.
16:42<Draakon>i guess then i have to experiment and see stuff for myself
16:42<Draakon>or get coding :P
16:43<Gonozal_VIII>you can get priorities too with signal distances...
16:44<Draakon>but why railroads get darker when train enters PBS block?
16:44<Gonozal_VIII>^^ that's the reservation
16:44<Eddi|zuHause2>Draakon: you can turn that off
16:44<planetmaker>Draakon: that's a debug feature or patch level.^^
16:44<Eddi|zuHause2>in the patch settings
16:45<Eddi|zuHause2>"show reserved track" or something
16:45<@peter1138>That's the "remind peter1138 he's using pbs" feature
16:45<Gonozal_VIII>but it's very useful to learn how to use pbs so you shouldn't turn it off
16:46<Draakon>but when trains going forward, get into PBS block, they stop and then continue, why=
16:46<Gonozal_VIII>only without orders
16:46<Draakon>it was same with orders too
16:46<Gonozal_VIII>hmm that shouldn
16:47<Gonozal_VIII>'t happen..
16:47<Draakon>it has happend here
16:47<Gonozal_VIII>maybe lost
16:47<Eddi|zuHause2>you do it wrong ;)
16:48<Eddi|zuHause2>is there an adverbial form of "wrong"?
16:48<Draakon>gonozal; no they arent lost
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16:49<Eddi|zuHause2>are they on an island in the south pacific?
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16:50<Draakon>my trains? no
16:50<Eddi|zuHause2>hm... i need 4-lane roads with embedded tram in the middle (2 tiles wide)
16:51<+glx><Eddi|zuHause2> is there an adverbial form of "wrong"? <-- like "wrongly" ?
16:51<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm one way tram
16:52<Eddi|zuHause2>glx: this adverb stuff is very confusing for me... in german it's all the same..
16:52<Gonozal_VIII>in a wrong way
16:54<Eddi|zuHause2>the real problem with english is that is has really simple rules, and then 10 pages worth of exceptions
16:55<Eddi|zuHause2>while german has more complicated rules, but then only a handful of exceptions
16:57<planetmaker>wrongly is actually a valid word
16:57<@peter1138>incorrectly sounds more, er, correct.
16:58<planetmaker>^^^probably just much more common
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17:34<ln->what motherboard do i want?
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17:46<Eddi|zuHause2>one that works.
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17:59<ln->Eddi|zuHause2: exactly
18:00<Sacro>ln-: indeed
18:01<ln->i'm thinking of Asus P5KC
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18:41<ln->well what would you say about { Asus P5KC + Intel Core2Quad 2.4G + 2x2GB + 500GB + Asus EN8800GT/512M + Antec Sonata Designer 500W } = 871€ ?
18:44<SmatZ>Roujin: probably building rail over one-way roads will be disallowed
18:45<Roujin>i see. well this is the other way to address this problem
18:46<Roujin>why can't a oneway sign be drawn over this?
18:47<SmatZ>if there are barriers, the one-way sign is drawn over them...
18:47<SmatZ>nothing serious, but it was decided not to draw it
18:47<SmatZ>I wondered, too :)
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18:48<SmatZ>actually, I considered this as a bug, too - so I made the patch, but then Rubidium explained me it is intended
18:48<Roujin>oh, so it's more an issue of taste than of limitations?
18:49<Roujin>well good that you're around right now then ^^ i was starting to make the same patch as you made, appearently ^^
18:50<Roujin>less wasted time, more sleep for me ^_^ good night ^^
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18:52<jez9999>just downloaded a recent beta version, and i cant find any documentation on a config setting
18:52<jez9999>'manual primary industry construction method'
18:52<jez9999>what does that do?
18:53<Eddi|zuHause2>see the industry icon at the top? if you hold that down you can get to the industry construction window
18:54<Eddi|zuHause2>normally, you can only place secondary industries (i.e. ones that accept cargo and produce something out of that)
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18:54<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r12323 /trunk/src/vehicle_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#1821](r6789): vehicle sorting by name was broken, it was comparing two the same strings (when caching was not used)
18:54<Eddi|zuHause2>primary industries (that only produce cargo out of nothing) are not allowed
18:55<Eddi|zuHause2>"prospecting" means you can build primary industries, but can not decide the location, and there is a chance that it does not work at all
18:55<jez9999>and 'as other industries'?
18:55<Eddi|zuHause2>well, that treats them like they were secondary industries
18:55<jez9999>ah ok
18:55<jez9999>i like the sound of prospecting
18:55<jez9999>sounds more challenging
18:56<Gonozal_VIII>especially with ecs^^
18:57<Gonozal_VIII>i mean georges vectors...
18:57<Gonozal_VIII>the industries have strict placement rules there, prospecting fails most of the time
18:57<jez9999>sorry i havent used openttd in a while
18:57<jez9999>what are tehy?
18:57<jez9999>are they enabled by default in 0.6.0-beta4?
18:58<jez9999>oh, i guess you have to load them
18:58<Gonozal_VIII>they are newgrf
18:58<jez9999>i have to say i didnt think development on this was going anywhere
18:58<jez9999>im quite impressed with 0.6.0-beta4, so many neat patches
18:58<jez9999>you even put in my face customization. :-) didnt think that would ever get in
18:59<Gonozal_VIII>that's the vectors i was talking about
18:59<jez9999>one thing that's missing, though? A good AI. :-) i would soo like an AI that challenges me, and tries to found new industries, and stuff
19:00<Gonozal_VIII>noai branch had a lot of changes lately
19:01<jez9999>that sounds like... the lack of an AI
19:01<Gonozal_VIII>yes, strange name^^
19:01<jez9999>so the idea is one day that will be merged into the main openttd?
19:02<Gonozal_VIII>yes, that's what a branch is for...
19:02<Gonozal_VIII>i think^^
19:02<jez9999>btw if anyone sees KUDr, tell him jez thanks him for checking the face customization stuff
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19:26<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r12324 /trunk/src/vehicle_gui.cpp: -Fix (r6789): vehicles could be sorted in a wrong order when a vehicle name changed - cached name was not invalidated
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23:53<De_Ghost>fujitsu makes garbages
---Logclosed Sun Mar 02 00:00:42 2008