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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-03-11

---Logopened Tue Mar 11 00:00:56 2008
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04:03<SUPEROGT>hey ppl, i've a question about stations and farms, what is the max distance between the central building of the farm and the station for gathering their goods
04:04<Noldo>show catchment area when building a station might help
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04:04<SUPEROGT>can i cover only the camps? or must cover the the principal building ?
04:05<Noldo>I don't know
04:05<@peter1138>The acceptance list in the station builder window will change as you move around...
04:06<@peter1138>Hmm, Acceptance. I'll shut up :)
04:06<SUPEROGT>yeah but i want to know a kind of giving list... if i put the station here, the farm will gimme grain and beef
04:06<Noldo>what is the status of tha patch that would show suply too?
04:07<@peter1138>It should work with just one tile in the catchment area, I think.
04:08<SUPEROGT>suply, that word i was looking for :P sorry for my english lol
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04:10<SUPEROGT>well i guess i'll make some test, i guess it wont work covering camps without the farm building, but i hope it works
04:14<SUPEROGT>nah, must cover the building
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05:17<@peter1138>Ah, good old... well, people...
05:17<@peter1138>Originally the complaints that My Documents is not used, now the complaints that My Documents is used...
05:18<Forked>people will remain people and complain no matter what you do
05:18<Forked>oh btw.. morning..
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05:28<bcbg54>hello gm anny french friends here ?
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05:30<Forked>shame on you all for not responding within 14 seconds :p
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05:49<De_Ghost>shame indeed
05:54<SUPEROGT>damn i speak spanish, that's closer
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07:13*Celestar peeks into the room
07:14*Celestar has expected some more enthusiasm :P
07:14<Vikthor>Wow Celestar, welcome back! (Better?)
07:15<Celestar>yes ;)
07:15*Celestar goes reading up the svn log (=
07:16<@peter1138>Hello Celestar!
07:18<Celestar>heya peter1138 , how's life?
07:24<Celestar>that sounds boring :P
07:32<@peter1138>Er... busy? :p
07:35<@peter1138>Gah, why is BGP showing the correct selected route but not actually using it...?
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07:41<SpComb>peter1138: try using YAPF instead
07:43<Celestar>what is BGP?
07:43<Noldo>hi Celestar
07:43<Celestar>hey Noldo
07:44<@peter1138>Border Gateway Protocol.
07:45<Celestar>ah :)
07:46<Celestar>was thinking ottd-specific :P
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08:33<Celestar>opensuse 10.3 has 0.6.0beta5 rpms
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08:34<@peter1138>As in, install OpenTTD and you get the beta?
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08:34<Celestar>"zypper in openttd"
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09:00<frosch123>"If I try to save a template as "Con" openttd dies
09:01<frosch123>good old dos compatibility
09:04<Ammler>openSUSE strikes Debian :P
09:05<Ammler>(or beats)
09:07<@peter1138>Shipping betas is fail.
09:08<Ammler>hmm. let me check, who makes the packs
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09:10<Ammler>Toni Graffy <> <-- does someone know him?
09:11<Ammler>The category is also nice: Unterhaltung/Spiele/Strategie/Turn-Based
09:12<frosch123>since when is ottd turn-based?
09:13<ln->since when is Turb-Based german?
09:13<frosch123>lets add a "Press space to end the current game tick"-switch
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09:22<Celestar>Ammler: dunno him
09:22<Celestar>Ammler: it's not in the official repo I see, it's in packman
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09:23<Ammler>well, packman is very common
09:23<Celestar>packman rocks
09:23<Ammler>its also in the Community Repo list
09:23<Celestar>Endeavor crew is in sleep phase. I want that too :(
09:24<Ammler>which can automatically included over yast now
09:24<Celestar>Ammler: I know, I'm just running opensuse 10.3
09:24<Ammler>oh, :-)
09:24<Gekz>I dont like you infidelity
09:24<Celestar>it's basically the only OS I'm using regularly. apart from SLE[SD] 10
09:24<Gekz>stop this talk of the evil Linux
09:24<Gekz>praise Windows like a true weenie
09:25<Celestar>yeah. the shuttle astronauts just took 30 minutes to upload pics from a digital camera to a damn windows laptop
09:25<Celestar>"Houston, Endeavor, the goddamn 'found new hardware' popup is not appearing. Recommendations?" "Endeavour, Houston, suggest to power-cycle the laptop"
09:26<frosch123>perhaps they tried to use "CON" as filename
09:26<Gekz>better than the Atari ST they had before
09:26<@Belugas>hello Celestar. Glad to see you back :) Hope the logs reading will not scare you away ;)
09:26<Celestar>Belugas: heyo.
09:26<Celestar>Belugas: no, up to now, they didn't scare me off.
09:26<Celestar>Belugas: gimme a short update please :) what happened during the past 6 months?
09:26<Celestar>I mean in openttd.
09:26<Celestar>I've been reading the newspaper anyway :P
09:26<Gekz>Celestar: nothing whatsoever!
09:27<@Belugas>6 months???
09:27<@Belugas>that's a lot to ask...
09:27<@Belugas>top of my head...
09:27<Celestar>Belugas: I mean any Big New Features (TM) :)
09:27<@Belugas>newindistries are on
09:28<@Belugas>we have nice slopes
09:28<@Belugas>we have rivers
09:28<ln->the earring bug is still there.
09:28<Celestar>"nice slopes" ?
09:28<Phantasm>Belugas: Any news on the industry shutdown problem on big maps?
09:28<Celestar>rivers? water level > 0 ?
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09:29<@Belugas>Phantasm, have you seen anything in the commits regarding that? No? Well... no news
09:29<Phantasm>Belugas: I do not watch commits.
09:29<@Belugas>shame on you
09:30<@Belugas>nice slopes is a feature coded by frosch
09:30<@Belugas>a nice one
09:30<Celestar>Belugas: I'm considering resuming work on gamebalance :)
09:30<Celestar>Belugas: what do "nice slopes" do/look like
09:30<@Belugas>i was about to remove the branch ;)
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09:31<@Belugas>there, Celestar
09:32<@Belugas>shores too...
09:32<frosch123>Belugas beated me :(
09:32<@Belugas>nice shores
09:32<Gekz>The Naast... crappy french band
09:32<@Belugas>and that one too
09:33*Belugas might dig up the betas changelogs...
09:33<@Belugas>would be easier :S
09:33<Celestar>I see you guys have not been lazy (=
09:34<Noldo>there is some interesting PBS actiong going on too
09:34<@Belugas>not really... indeed
09:34<@Belugas>but right now, pretty much stuck
09:35<@Belugas>waiting to branch 0.6
09:35<@Belugas>i was thinking, Celestar...
09:35<@Belugas>there is that branch that Richk67 is working on
09:35<@Belugas>the newgrf_ports
09:36<@Belugas>basically, i think you both should work togueter
09:36<@Belugas>on it
09:36<@Belugas>yu know state machine code,
09:36<@Belugas>so does he
09:36<Celestar>that's correct
09:36<@Belugas>joining forces on it will be more helpfull than game balancing, no offense meant
09:36<Celestar>that sounds reasonable
09:37<@Belugas>good !
09:37<Celestar>I'll talk to him once he's online
09:37<Celestar>WEE!! I finally got NASA TV working on linux
09:37<@Belugas>once the airports are done, the truck/bus stops will be possible to change, so will be shipyards :)
09:38<Celestar>just typical stupid codec messup
09:38<Celestar>firefox just crashes on NASA TV, all other browsers work :P
09:39<@Belugas>better leave a PM to richk67, he was on irc yesterday, but it has been after a very long no-connect time
09:39*Belugas heads down to work
09:39<Celestar>touch foo > svn ci -m "richk. please contact me" ?
09:40<Celestar>svn add foo :P
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09:41<Ammler>Celestar: my favorite browser is more and more Opera
09:41<Celestar>Ammler: I'm using epiphany
09:42<Ammler>hmm, don't know that
09:42<Celestar>it's firefox-based, but lightweight
09:42<Celestar>so rather gecko-based
09:43<keyweed>kazehakase is a nice light weight browser.
09:44<keyweed>only wish they'd chosen another name
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09:48<Celestar>but epiphany also works with flash 9, mms and crap
09:48<Celestar>hey glx
09:48<keyweed>i don't need or want flash and crap
09:48<Celestar>meanwhile, you sometimes need even flash for crappy driver downloads or shit
09:48<+glx>wow Celestar is back :)
09:48<Celestar>yeah \o/
09:49<keyweed>i don't. i also don't need drivers.
09:49<GoneWacko>w3m is the one and only browser :3
09:49<keyweed>well, to be honest, i need 1 driver.
09:50<keyweed>not really needb ut want.
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10:14*peter1138 returns!
10:16<Celestar>shuttle launches are cool to watch
10:16<@peter1138>Except when they go wrong.
10:16*Celestar wonders why astronauts have a 23:45 hour day
10:16<@peter1138>Then you don't know whether to think "wow, cool!" or "oh my god!"
10:21<Rubidium>huh? A Celestar? Here? How can it be?
10:21<Rubidium>And that when I was thinking about going to bed
10:22<Celestar>Rubidium: :)
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10:23<Celestar>peter1138: only one launch went wrong up to now, you know (=
10:23<Noldo>and one landing?
10:23<Celestar>not the landing actually
10:23<Celestar>the re-entry
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10:26<Celestar>we need a better transportation systems
10:26<Celestar>some brits came up with a good idea
10:26<mrfrenzy>subways maybe
10:27<mrfrenzy>aah you're talking space flight now ;)
10:27<Rubidium>Celestar: yes, trains sucks (especially Shinkansens), also planes sucks (especially the ones with cracks in the windscreen)
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10:28<Celestar>a company called Reaction Engines Ltd
10:29<larsemil>so i am going to play some openttd with some friends tonight. and we are going to play the latest nightly. but i was wondering about the tram-thingy? how do i get that into the game?
10:29<larsemil>and is there something else i should add?
10:30<mrfrenzy>larsemil: grf
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10:30<larsemil>mrfrenzy: how do i do that?
10:30<mrfrenzy>you just grab for example "german trams.grf"
10:30<mrfrenzy>put them in the data dir, and add it in the settings
10:30<mrfrenzy>there is a whole wikipage about it
10:30<larsemil>mrfrenzy: and then i can build on roads etc?
10:31<mrfrenzy>you build "tramroads"
10:31<larsemil>cool. where do i put this file?
10:31<mrfrenzy>in the data dir as i said
10:31<mrfrenzy>read the wiki ;)
10:32<larsemil>ah sorry
10:32<larsemil> this one would work?
10:32<mrfrenzy>I use the nice openttdcoop pack
10:33<mrfrenzy>sry I
10:33<mrfrenzy>m on 56k today ;)
10:33<mrfrenzy>t browse like that
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10:34<larsemil>i understasnd that. :)
10:36<larsemil>mrfrenzy: how do i install it?
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10:36<larsemil>its like 7 direcotiries? i just copy them all into data or i have to copy the .grf files?
10:37<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truebrain * r12359 /3rdparty/squirrel/squirrel/sqvm.cpp: [Squirrel] -Fix [FS#1845]: 'return' caused the stack to be cleaned up twice, and causing asserts
10:40<larsemil>i add the file. and then choose new GRF settings. add gertram file. save settings. start new game. but cant find where to build tram-tracks.
10:41<@peter1138>Click and hold on the road build icon
10:42<larsemil>super! thanks
10:42<@peter1138>Hidden features ahoy...
10:44<Celestar>where's TB anyway?
10:46<Rubidium>likely closer to you than he's to me (physically that is)
10:49<larsemil>hmm is the building canals thingy any fun?
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10:51<@peter1138>It's expensive...
10:52<keyweed>it's fun to see boats sailing over rails
10:53<Slowpoke>you can totaly erase sea squares and put a canal around those squares
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11:04<Celestar>the braindead EU liquid-ban on airline flights might be cancelled soon \o/
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11:09<larsemil>okay home and play. will get back if i miss something. tonight
11:09<larsemil>see ya
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11:46<Eddi|zuHause2>a Celestar? my eyes must be decieving me!
11:50<Celestar>they ain't
11:50<Noldo>that's what the deciving eyes would say
11:52<Noldo>I need a backup tinkering project :/
11:52-!-ln [] has quit [Quit: ×]
11:53<Noldo>just in case my primary project doesn't get support
11:56<Eddi|zuHause2>implement shunting ;)
11:59<Noldo>I don't do features ;)
11:59<Celestar>primary project?
12:00<Eddi|zuHause2>Noldo: you can focus on the underlying infrastructure ;)
12:00<Eddi|zuHause2>i.e. separate "trains" from "[front] rail vehicles"
12:01<Noldo>Celestar: FS1843
12:01<@Belugas>Noldo : suggestion : bug fixes!
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12:01<@Belugas>they are, when well done, far more appreciated than features...
12:01<@Belugas>anyone can do features
12:01<@Belugas>only the good ones are bug fixing
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12:05<@Belugas>Noldo, am i right in assuming you've created a new file out of the code based in ship_cmd ?
12:05*Celestar is going to leavel
12:06<Eddi|zuHause2>btw. Celestar... remember the suggestion i made 2 years ago?
12:06*Belugas straps Celestar to his chair
12:06<@Belugas>NO YOU DON"T
12:06<Eddi|zuHause2>it's not entirely perfect
12:06<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause2: he nice :)
12:06<Eddi|zuHause2>but might be improved upon
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12:16<Noldo>Belugas: yes
12:18<yorick>can I get xchat for windows for free somewhere?
12:18<@Belugas>Noldo, i fear you did it wrong then
12:19<@Belugas>it should have been done with a svn copy,
12:19<@Belugas>since that will allow to keep the history of the code been shipped in new file
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12:20<@Belugas>yorick, you are REALLY boring
12:20<yorick>yes, thank you
12:20<Noldo>Belugas: and svn diff has the copy information too?
12:21<@Belugas>svn diff as such no, but once it will be commited, it will follow. IIRC, it will show the new file a bit differently
12:22<@Belugas>on the diff...
12:22<Noldo>ok, I keep that in mind when making a new version
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12:26<@peter1138>Have we branched 0.6 yet? :o
12:26<Eddi|zuHause2>are we there yet?
12:27<@Belugas>i think we are pretty much at that point indeed
12:27<@peter1138>Just waiting on more beta5 bugs really.
12:28<@peter1138>Although FS#1841 is odd.
12:28<@peter1138>It leaves the depot when track is occupied.
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12:34<nicfer>one question: can be changed via grf the requirements of the city for its grow?
12:35<nicfer>for example, making the temperate cities require goods for its grow
12:36<yorick>no, you can't do that using a grf
12:36<yorick>the requirements are defined in the code (town_cmd.cpp)
12:36<nicfer>I want to do a thing like the challenge spinoff
12:39<Eddi|zuHause2>yorick: actually, you are wrong
12:39<Eddi|zuHause2>e.g. the alpine.grf removes the need for food above snow line
12:40<yorick>the last time I checked...
12:40<yorick>maybe alpine overrides houses
12:40<Eddi|zuHause2>houses don't have anything to do with towns
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12:46<yorick>hmm...I can't find the requirements for temperate or toyland
12:47<yorick>but, eddi: if (TilePixelHeight(t->xy) >= GetSnowLine() && t->act_food == 0 && t->population > 90) return;
12:47<yorick>only way I can think of is swapping the food and goods ids
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12:48<Eddi|zuHause2>i assume a grf callback somewhere
12:48<yorick>see for yourself
12:49<Vikthor>And doesn't alpine work on temperate, just adding winter graphics?
12:49<yorick>it needs snowline ;)
12:49<Eddi|zuHause2>no, alpine works on arctic, adding temperate grass and industry
12:49<yorick>maybe the town growth isn't compatible with variable snow line heights, in which case it would be a bug
12:50<Vikthor>aha OK
12:50<LordAzamath>anyone got some spare time?
12:50<LordAzamath>not you.. pff
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12:52<Eddi|zuHause2>strike! ;)
12:52<yorick>but it seems to be very unlikely that GetSnowLine() doesn't support ot
12:54<yorick>because it is used for newindustries snow checking aswell
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13:09*Belugas slaps itself 'cause of wrong command type used
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13:11<mirkn00b>anyone here
13:11<@Belugas>from time to time, yes
13:12<mirkn00b>hi there... got an openTTD Q, anyone know why my LAN games don't get any AI companies starting?`
13:12<yorick>let the other 97 say hello aswell :)
13:12<mrfrenzy>hi ;)
13:12<yorick>have you activated "AI in Multiplayer"?
13:12<mrfrenzy>I think those are disabled by default in multiplayer mirkn00b
13:12<mirkn00b>Where is that setting?
13:13<yorick>it is at "Opponents" patch tab
13:13<mirkn00b>ah, found it..... thx guys
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13:16<yorick>I need another language pack header: to what netlang it converts
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13:33<yorick>slowchatting by 1847 :x
13:34<+glx>yorick: there's no problem in openttdw.grf :)
13:34<+glx>the problem is in rev.cpp
13:34<@peter1138>yorick: Try the TE_ enum...
13:34<@peter1138>16:45 yorick> but, eddi: if (TilePixelHeight(t->xy) >= GetSnowLine() && t->act_food == 0 && t->population > 90) return;
13:34<@peter1138>regarding that...
13:35<@peter1138>You can make a GRF that makes goods behave as food for towns.
13:35<@peter1138>NFO wiki lists it as town growth substitute type, or something similar.
13:38<yorick>uint16 act_food;uint16 act_water; <-- you can't have both at the same time, so why not merge them?
13:39<@peter1138>Why can't you?
13:39<yorick>I can, I think, I was just curious if there was a reason not to do that?
13:40<@peter1138>No, I mean why can't you have both?
13:41<yorick> save memory?
13:41<yorick>some 16 bytes?
13:41<@peter1138>You've stated that you can't have both at the same time... well why not?
13:42<yorick>no, you can, but I think, it's not needed
13:42<@peter1138>Why is it not needed?
13:42<yorick>because you can't use both at the same time?
13:42<@peter1138>You can.
13:44<@peter1138>Both food and water must be supplied for a desert town to grow.
13:44<yorick>food in tropical?
13:44*yorick is outdated
13:44<hylje>always been
13:49<yorick>* TODO: usrerror() for errors which are not of an internal nature but caused by the user, i.e. missing files or fatal configuration errors. Post-0.4.0 since Celestar doesn't want this in SVN before. --pasky */ <-- ooh, old comments!
13:51<yorick>would saving pcx images when using the 32bpp blitter even work?
13:53<nicfer>is possible to make houses produce another cargos than passengers/mail?
13:54<@Belugas>these are the direct houses properties ->
13:55<@Belugas>using callbacks, mmore can be done
13:55<@Belugas>and maybe more precisely :
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14:04<nicfer>well, grf is not for me, so I can provide the design of the challenge spinoff revival if someone has enough free time and knowledges to do it
14:04<nicfer>grfs are like a maze for me
14:05<nicfer>(my nick on tt-forums is UnderBuilder
14:05<@Belugas>better to learn grf than to try to patch the code, imho
14:06<@Belugas>if a grf can be made, it's always better, since it can be shared
14:06<@Belugas>patches are useless withiout recompile
14:07<Gonozal_VIII>depends on who you want to play with
14:07<Gonozal_VIII>sending a binary to some friends is no problem
14:08*Belugas was thinking about the overall community
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14:09<Gonozal_VIII>the community of people wearing overalls?
14:13*peter1138 has some of the basics of that already
14:13<@peter1138>very basic :o
14:14<@peter1138>Korenn's challenge spinoff
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14:19<skidd13>@seel LA[lord]
14:19<skidd13>@seen LA[lord]
14:19<@DorpsGek>skidd13: seen [<channel>] <nick>
14:20<skidd13>damn brackets....
14:20-!-skidd13 [] has left #openttd [Ping timeout: Hmm ping sucks :D]
14:21<Prof_Frink>@seen LA\[lord\]
14:21<@DorpsGek>Prof_Frink: seen [<channel>] <nick>
14:21<Prof_Frink>Worth a try.
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14:33*Sacro is back on ABBA
14:33<Prof_Frink>Amarok: Chumbawamba - Tubthumping
14:34<nicfer>one question... is there any jabber clients for mobile phones?
14:35<Sacro>nicfer: yes
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14:39<yorick>Prof_Frink: [19:38] <@The_Master> yorick: LordAzamath was last seen in #? 1 hour, 49 minutes, and 43 seconds ago: <LordAzamath> you saw me coming at #openttd right? :P
14:40<yorick>FS#1847 can be closed, right?
14:40-!-Osai is now known as Osai^Kendo
14:40<Prof_Frink>yorick: 'twas more a test of the bot than actually giving a damn when LA was last here
14:40<yorick>it fails at []
14:41<yorick>LA* should work
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14:58<Barry>Any body here play with Gonozal_VIII patchpack
14:59<Gonozal_VIII>yes, i do
14:59<yorick>:D I really couldn't have guessed that
14:59<Barry>hehehehe ofcourse :-) I'm my game with your patchpack the competitors don't build anything. Is that right?
15:00<Gonozal_VIII>didn't change the ai... the ai just sucks
15:00<yorick>non-human competitors are bad
15:00<+glx>the AI has some problems if map is not 256*256
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15:02<@Belugas>ho... The_Master is a bot... good... i've banned a bot
15:02<Barry>Gonozal do you play with competitors in your game?
15:02<Gonozal_VIII>no, never
15:03<yorick>Belugas: [20:03] <@yorick> The_Master, are you a bot? [20:03] <@The_Master> yorick: No, are you?
15:04-!-Zavior [] has joined #openttd
15:05<yorick>[20:04] <@yorick> The_Master, no, I am not, but Belugas strongly believes you are one. [20:04] <@The_Master> yorick: Why do you say that? [20:04] <@yorick> The_Master, because belugas says that you are a bot. [20:04] <@The_Master> yorick: No, I am a human, you are a bot.
15:05-!-mode/#openttd [+o glx] by DorpsGek
15:05<@glx>ok stop spamming now :)
15:06-!-LordAzamath [] has joined #openttd
15:06<@Belugas>or you'll follow The_Master's state, whatever he/it is
15:06<LordAzamath>TheMaster isn't here.. why are you talking about it? :o
15:07<yorick>try !logs
15:09<LordAzamath>@seen skidd13
15:09<@DorpsGek>LordAzamath: skidd13 was last seen in #openttd 49 minutes and 51 seconds ago: <skidd13> damn brackets....
15:10<LordAzamath>I hoped he'd be here
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15:10<@Belugas>hey guys, i've discovered a very clever feature on my browser! It's called BOOKMARK
15:10<Forked>what does it do!?
15:11<@Belugas>you should try it too.... it's awesome...
15:11<@Belugas>it remembers URLS...
15:11<Prof_Frink>Belugas: Or, locationbar history
15:11<@Belugas>like, you don't have to type anything to get a usefull web page...
15:11<Forked>but I like typing
15:11<Forked>it makes me more attractive to women.. right?
15:12*Forked shuts up and does some housework to avoid gf agression
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15:12<LordAzamath>Belugas: Implement bookmarks to openttd?
15:12<LordAzamath>â very clever feature you said
15:12<@Belugas>not needed...
15:13<LordAzamath>for latest savegames? for best newgrfs?
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15:13<Gonozal_VIII>there are bookmarks in openttd
15:13<Gonozal_VIII>they are called signs
15:13<LordAzamath>you can't click on them to go somewhere
15:13<LordAzamath>you can only edit them
15:13<Gonozal_VIII>you can
15:13<@peter1138>The sign is the place to go :o
15:13<Gonozal_VIII>click on a sign in the sign list
15:13<Ammler>hmm, a good thing would be possibitly to export/import cfg
15:14<LordAzamath>export :)
15:14<@peter1138>Ammler, er, just copy openttd.cfg?
15:14<LordAzamath>but what if you change something in-game?
15:14<Ammler>hmm, but you don't write it after start anymore, do you?
15:14<LordAzamath>you can never save thrm..
15:15<LordAzamath>Ammler: Isn't it written on exit?
15:15<@Belugas>open door to bug reports frenezy
15:15<LordAzamath>oh yea..
15:15*LordAzamath has a bug report
15:15*peter1138 has a bug reporting system.
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15:16*yorick has SmatZ!
15:16<LordAzamath>good for you
15:16<@peter1138>Hello SmatZ
15:16<SmatZ>hello yorick!
15:16<SmatZ>hello peter1138!
15:16<Ammler>well feature request without patch isn't nice :-)
15:16<Ammler>or bugreport
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15:17<SmatZ>with a working patch with correct coding style :)
15:17<@Belugas>i've got a bug reporting system too :)
15:17<LordAzamath>I just deconfirmed a bug
15:18<Ammler>good one
15:18<@peter1138>THIS IS SLOW!
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15:19<LordAzamath>I somewhere read that saving a game naming it "con" will just crash openttd.. but it gives an error message instead :P
15:19<LordAzamath>and don't crash
15:19<LordAzamath>and I know that one can't have a file named con.* on windows sys :P
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15:20<Sacro>you should not be able to call a file "con" "prn" or "nul"
15:20<Sacro>or C:\Progra~1\
15:21<Prof_Frink>Good ol' con\con
15:22*Sacro creates a Program~1 folder
15:22<Sacro>apparently it makes windows go fubar
15:23<Prof_Frink>I have had two dirs with the same name before
15:23<Prof_Frink>*exactly* the same name, not even different case
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15:37<@peter1138>Mmm, mashed potato
15:38<Forked>this bookmarks thing is pretty cool
15:38<Forked>Belugas: thanks :D
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15:39<@Belugas>hehe... irony, peter
15:40<Forked>what? :\
15:40<Forked>sorry I'm just bored while installing a random distro to test something
15:40<Forked>the resolution sucks btw.. 640x480 on a 24" widescreen =p
15:44<@Belugas>go and install on a 13" :)
15:44-!-dihedral is now known as dih
15:44<Forked>I don't have one :(
15:45<@Belugas>lucky you
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15:46<@Belugas>i've spent quite a good amount of my first year of programing on such a small gizmo
15:48<Forked>I can't imagine :)
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15:59<LordAzamath>good night *!
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16:01<@peter1138>One of my colleagues asked me the other day... "What does it mean when an email address ends in .ee instead of"
16:01<SmatZ>new station of subway is going to open soon :)
16:01<SmatZ>it is ontopic
16:01<@peter1138>No flash on here.
16:02<ln->SmatZ: i doubt that's the minimal way to express that url.
16:02<SmatZ>hmm yes sorry :-x
16:02*SmatZ kicks SmatZ
16:02-!-SmatZ [] has left #openttd [Konversation terminated!]
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16:14*Belugas is a tiny little bit despaired, as his todo list grows faster than the done one :(
16:14<SpComb>solution: drop the "done" list
16:14<Noldo>another solution: drop the "todo" list
16:14<@Belugas>solution wold be somewhere toward the todo, actually :S
16:14<@Belugas>problem is that the todo list pays my bills :(
16:14<Noldo>I've managed to keep my "todo list that pays the bills" at work
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16:14<@glx>he's still at work
16:14-!-Zavior [] has joined #openttd
16:14<@peter1138>Gah, why does this train leave :o
16:14<Gonozal_VIII>you scared it
16:14<@peter1138>Harr harr
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16:21<@Belugas>haaa... 30 Ghosts IV :D
16:21<@Belugas>my ears are pleased
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16:22*yorick is sad
16:22*Slowpoke gives yorick a cookie
16:22*yorick eats cookie
16:23*yorick gives cookie to Gonozal_VIII
16:23*Belugas passes a glass of milk
16:23<@Belugas>goes well with cookie...
16:23<Gonozal_VIII>baaaah, i don't want digested cookies
16:23*yorick doesn't like milk
16:24*yorick gets some water and passes milk do Gonozal_VII, "goes well with digested cookie.."
16:24<@Belugas>you ain't going to have anything else form me!
16:25*yorick passes move-client-in-companies to Belugas
16:26*peter1138 passes wind
16:26*Belugas passes time
16:26<@Belugas> between compilations
16:27<@Belugas>so back to 32 ghosts now :)
16:27<Gonozal_VIII>your ghosts are multiplying
16:28-!-Gekz [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
16:28<@Belugas>no more no less
16:28*Belugas hope there would be more :(
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16:30<@peter1138>Display all 35075 possibilities? (y or n)
16:30<@peter1138>Oops :o
16:31<yorick>try redirecting to Gonozal_VIII and pressing y
16:32<Prof_Frink>/exec -o yes
16:32<@Belugas> <-- for those who a re intrigued by the Ghosts in my machine
16:32<@Belugas>hu hu
16:32*peter1138 rebuilds with debug 3...
16:32<@peter1138>Thought it was running a bit fast... :)
16:34<@peter1138>Might help with the 10 minute compile times too.
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16:36<@peter1138>v == 0x1 is always a fun sign...
16:37<@peter1138>5 minutes instead of 10... betterer.
16:40<@peter1138>Hehe, now the GRF scan takes ages instead...
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16:54<yorick>goodbye all!
16:54-!-yorick [] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> <- In tests, 0x09 out of 0x0A l33t h4x0rz prefer it :)]
16:55<@peter1138>Oh, it leaves the depot because the game was saved just after it was told to skip signals...
16:55<@peter1138>Nothing bad happens to me after that though.
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17:02*Belugas goes home :D
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17:32<fjb>Oh, DaleStan is back.
17:32<ln->not to mention Celestar
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17:33<fjb>Is it the big come back day today?
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17:38<nycerine>Hey. A quick question.. I've been fooling around a lot with railroads, but what can I gain from using the diffrent types of signals?
17:40<fjb>They prevent your trains from crashing. :-)
17:42<fjb>nycerine: Did you bother to read the manual?
17:42<nycerine>I've been using signals for a long while.
17:42-!-divo [] has quit [Quit: Quitting]
17:42<nycerine>But not the other ones (that must be with the new ver, or from a grf)
17:43<fjb>Which other ones?
17:43<nycerine>three others.
17:43<nycerine>combination signals, etc.
17:44<Eddi|zuHause2>they are... "new"... as in... like 5 years old...
17:44<fjb>Do you mean they have a different funtion or are only different looking?
17:45<nycerine>aah, sorry.
17:45<nycerine>I should've checked that wiki page.
17:47<fjb>Looking at the manual helps lost of the time.
17:48<Wolf01>'night all
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17:49<fjb>Apropos manual, I was just reading the manual of the new CanSet. And I'm too stupid to understand the shunting example.
17:50<fjb>Canadian train set.
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18:24<stevenh>Howdy all
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18:25<ln->cos(90°-x) == sin(x) ?
18:29<murray>aren't you reversing it
18:29<murray>should be +
18:29<Eddi|zuHause2>cos(90°+x)=sin(-x), sin(-x)=-sin(x), but don't take my word for it
18:29<Patrick`>it's easier to just draw it on a calculator
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19:21<dih>good night ladies
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19:51<dragonhorseboy>I think I found a silly bug in beta5 hehe :p
19:52<dragonhorseboy>I think you can replica it....try make any scenario with the lighthouses sitting on foundations ... then start a game...and try to raise the land underneath the lighthouses flat (as in ridding the foundations) -- it doesn't want to let you
19:53<Eddi|zuHause2>a) the real bug is letting lighthouses be built on foundations [i thought that was fixed]
19:54<Eddi|zuHause2>b) unmovables are designed to not let you terraform underneath them
19:54<dragonhorseboy>well this silly lighthouse is in the way of fixing a long sloped face as to be able to put some rails without a klink curve in it -_-
19:55<dragonhorseboy>meh..guess 88km/h trains will have to sufficent I guess?
19:55<Eddi|zuHause2>that is exactly the purpose of a lighthouse
19:56<Patrick`>aha, ok, yeah
19:56<Patrick`>the bug is permitting construction of lighthouses on foundations
19:57<Patrick`>my terminology was rusty
19:58<Eddi|zuHause2>that is what i said... only in passive ;)
19:58<Patrick`>someone's put lively rivers in as a ttdpatch feature in ottd
19:58<Patrick`>probably not right
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19:59<dragonhorseboy>patrick...yeah if terraforming can't be done underneath lighthouses then I say make them NOT build themself onto foundatins in first place? heheeh :->
19:59<DaleStan>"lively rivers"?
19:59<Eddi|zuHause2>"lively rivers" is not a ttdpatch feature... it is a project for automatically generating rivers on the map
20:00<DaleStan>Why are they "lively"?
20:00<Patrick`>it was classed under ttdpatch features tho
20:00<Patrick`>also: amusing limitations of ttdpatch
20:00<Patrick`>like map size
20:01<Eddi|zuHause2>Patrick`: where is this classification?
20:01<Patrick`>also, ttdp has fully programmable signals
20:01<Patrick`>top item
20:02<DaleStan>TTDPatch does have user-generated rivers, but without knowing what makes a river lively, I can't say if that's the same feature.
20:02<Patrick`>probably not
20:03<Eddi|zuHause2>Patrick`: that is very wrong
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20:03<Eddi|zuHause2>afaik, no coding has been done for "lively rivers" yet, and it is completely an ottd invention
20:04<Eddi|zuHause2>what IS a ttdpatch feature is showing river graphics as some kind of custom canals [only possible in scenario editor]
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20:19<dragonhorseboy>either way just a curiousity question but when think pbs could be found in a release of openttd? :p
20:22<DaleStan>When both (1) its done and (2) 0.6.0 is released.
20:23<dragonhorseboy>fair enough :p
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20:24<@glx>and it won't be in 0.6.0
20:24<dragonhorseboy>I once saw someone making a bit of a mess with a station that was 5 platforms yet only had two lines (typical in/out) and was getting jammed up..even after I helped this player by trying to rebuild the junction into a 2+3 one ... like you think having pbs could be helpful heh
20:24<dragonhorseboy>I never had any problem building 4-8 platforms to just one set of double mainline in ttdp
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20:27<@glx>DaleStan: <-- I don't know if it's the right way to do it, but that's solve the problem we have with -m (it converts glyph palette when it shouldn't, breaking openttdd.grf)
20:27<@glx>*that solves*
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20:28<DaleStan>Which sprites is -m converting? -m is supposed to automatically detect and ignore character glyphs.
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20:29<DaleStan>.... As in, "Which sprite numbers"? And that's the wrong way to do it; glyphs can also appear in action A. Maybe action 5 too.
20:29<@glx>we use grfcodec -e -m1
20:30<DaleStan>SVN rev? (though I think the -m/-M distinction has been around a while.)
20:31<@glx>I use the latest rev
20:34<@glx>and as far as I can see in grfcodec source, -m/-M is only used when decoding
20:36<dragonhorseboy>whats the deadend waypoint for?
20:36<Eddi|zuHause2>turning cargo trains
20:37<Eddi|zuHause2>PBS-Version of that same station:,%202.%20Mai%201985.png
20:40<Eddi|zuHause2>dragonhorseboy: i have a cargo line from the top left to the bottom left (and return), i used the waypoint to let them reverse at the station without blocking a platform, but it hat very low capacity, so i later built the western passing track, the waypoint is unused since then
20:41<DaleStan>*grumble* Then the correct solution is to fix -m. Which isn't going to be easy.
20:41<dragonhorseboy>heh eddi I see how several excessive rails had been removed around junction area ^_^
20:43<@glx>I think -m works correctly on decoding (by looking in the code it detects if colours are 0,1 or 2)
20:43<Eddi|zuHause2>dragonhorseboy: without PBS, you need a lot of extra rails to put signals on
20:44<dragonhorseboy> true that and one more thing I've sometimes found a blessing in...
20:45<dragonhorseboy>where I have like double mainlines barely parallel to a town that I first skipped by but then when I decide to have service stop there..I just slap a station and put in two quick 'X' junctions...
20:46<dragonhorseboy>and traffics doesn't even change much since the trains can pass each others by like they don't care they're only a few pixels apart
20:46<dragonhorseboy>(and to think I used to hate building through stations due to the complex of trying to seperate north and south lines before pbs came)
20:48<Eddi|zuHause2>the most interesting part is that even the "simple" station is designed so trains can leave each platform in each direction
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20:56<SpComb>discussion about how great PBS is?
20:56*SpComb joins in
20:56<SpComb>is that YAPP?
21:01<Sacro>YAPP is awesome
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21:02<SpComb>is there some document about the signalling somewhere?
21:02<SpComb>how they work/where to place them?
21:04<dragonhorseboy>well I think I'm going off anyhow so bye ^-^
21:04<DaleStan>glx: Does this fix the problem too?
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21:05<Sacro>SpComb: on teh froums
21:07<Eddi|zuHause2>SpComb: there's a wiki page on the design of the new PBS
21:08<Eddi|zuHause2>SpComb: practically it is "remove any signal that is not an entrance signal"
21:10<@glx>DaleStan: yes
21:11<Eddi|zuHause2>browsing old screenshots raises so many memories...
21:12<Eddi|zuHause2>(that is with the old PBS)
21:13<DaleStan>Good. I like that solution better, so in it goes.
21:13<@glx>yes your solution is way better :)
21:13<@glx>it is in the right place
21:14<@glx>and more general
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21:17<SpComb>looks good
21:17<SpComb> <-- does YAPP implement this?
21:20<Eddi|zuHause2>yes, except the priority signals
21:21<Eddi|zuHause2>(the ones with the red plate)
21:21<@glx>DaleStan: is broken (missing } at the end
21:22<Eddi|zuHause2>your line is broken, missing ) at the end ;)
21:23<Eddi|zuHause2>SpComb: not described on this page is the ability to mark signals as not passable from behind (yellow plate)
21:25<Sacro>1 way pbs
21:28<DaleStan>glx: *grumble* Fixed, again.
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21:49<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r12360 /trunk/ (bin/data/openttdd.grf src/table/files.h): -Fix: openttdd.grf was using the wrong colours for glyphs due to a grfcodec bug (fixed in grfcodec 0.9.10 r1837)
21:50<Sacro>glx: openttdd?
21:50<@glx>the dos one
21:54<@glx>DaleStan: I did another try to fix grfcodec compilation with mingw/msys
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22:42<DaleStan>glx: That won't work either; the build process doesn't necessarily delete the old .exe file before creating the new one. Would "... if [ -e $@ ]; then ..." work?
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22:43<@glx>as long as it doesnt't do "cp grfcodec.exe grfcodec.exe" it's ok
22:45<stevenh>Does anyone know of a GRF that uses all 4 railtypes at once?
22:45<DaleStan>But there's no way it can do that; $@ and $@.exe aren't the same thing.
22:45<@glx>hmm "... if [ -e $@ ]; then ..." doesn't work
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22:48<Eddi|zuHause3>stevenh: pretty much all grfs are designed for TTDP, which can only handle 3 railtypes at a time
22:49<stevenh>yeh, as i thought... and whilst working on this current issue with catenary on maglev, i'm trying to work out how to allow them to both work at the same time
22:49<stevenh>ie. have a grf that thinks it can only use 3 also work on 4 if need be
22:49<stevenh>without too much hassle to both sides.
22:52<Sacro>i would love to have more railtupes
22:52<Sacro>locomotion style
22:52<Sacro>ie base track
22:52<Sacro>base + 3rd rail
22:52<Sacro>+ 4th rail
22:52<Sacro>+ overhead catenary
22:52<Eddi|zuHause3>stevenh: the grf can use 4 railtypes, but no grf does
23:00<stevenh>my issue is that when they decide to, the current patch i'm working on wont cover everything they might want to do.
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23:04<stevenh>DaleStan, when unifiedmaglev is set to, say 1, and a vehicle is defined for maglev, does TTDP automagically switch it to monorail?
23:05<stevenh>...i was under the impression that the GRF would choose the assigning, ie. checking the patch variable first and then setting mono|maglev
23:05<@glx>DaleStan: the problem is
23:05<@glx>cp grfcodec grfcodec.exe
23:05<@glx>cp: `grfcodec.exe' and `grfcodec.exe' are the same file
23:07<DaleStan>stevenh: No, TTDPatch leaves the track type alone. The only thing unifiedmaglev changes is which strings and sprites are used for the third track type.
23:09<DaleStan>TTDPatch may or may not move a track type 01 engine to track type 02 when electrifiedrailways on. That is the effect, but the different motive powers may or may not be maintained internally.
23:11<@glx>because "g++ -o grfcodec ..." always add .exe (default output is a.exe)
23:13<DaleStan>Can you get ISCYGWIN, or a similar constant, to trigger for MinGW/msys ? That seems like the better solution, to me.
23:14<DaleStan>... "similar" would be the better solution, as -mno-cygwin probably wouldn't be appreciated by MinGW's gcc.
23:14<@glx>it doesn't care :)
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23:21<@glx>I have 2 options, "gcc -dumpmachine" and "uname"
23:25<Eddi|zuHause3>that statement actually reads like "ttdpatch can do whatever it wants"
23:27<DaleStan>Well, it can, provided the user-visible behaviour remains the expected behaviour. There's no significant difference between changing the track-type of an engine from 01 to 02 and changing the track-type check for track type 02 to "Engine requires a track type of either 01 or 02". They both end up with the engine in question working properly on the third track type.
23:28<DaleStan>*Engine must require
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23:31<Eddi|zuHause3>how long until ttdpatch completely got rid of all TTD code? ;)
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23:34<stevenh>I still can't see an elegant solution to this, one way favours the old ttdp method meaning minimal
23:34<stevenh>(re)coding for GRF authors... the other way allows more railtypes, etc...
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23:34<stevenh>which wont be on the ttdp radar...
23:34<Eddi|zuHause3>honestly, i'd view that "unifiedmaglev" thing as a hack, if you design new stuff, leave that totally out of the view
23:35<stevenh>but then you're not supporting ttdp properly.
23:35<Sacro>stevenh: personally, i'd like the new railtypes method
23:35<DaleStan>But you must have the correct value for unifiedmaglev, as GRFs use that to determine which track sprites will be displayed, and thus which track sprites they should replace.
23:35<stevenh>DaleStan, well in OTTD, setting that to 1 or 2 will have consequences...
23:36<stevenh>1 is the best idea... to just use up the monorail slot
23:36<stevenh>but that means no catenary...
23:36<stevenh>2 is ok, but that means no realistic acceleration, etc...
23:36<Eddi|zuHause3>stevenh: the openttd system was specifically designed to be able to take more railtypes, you should definitely build upon that
23:36<DaleStan>No, if it's set to 1, the third rail type uses monorail sprites.
23:36<stevenh>in TTDP, yes.
23:37<DaleStan>No. Period. Because GRFs must be able to rely on reading unifiedmaglev to determine which railsprites to replace with action A.
23:37<Sacro>why not have a seperate system for OpenTTD
23:38<arielcanada>do you guys mind if i ask a non-technical question?
23:38<stevenh>but the point is, it doesn't matter for OTTD which sprites you replace
23:38<DaleStan>Because GRFs do that. And because the first rule of NFO is that once supported, it is *set* *in* *stone*.
23:38<stevenh>I suppose the issue is where the vehicles go.
23:39<DaleStan>The vehicles go on the third track type. That's easy.
23:39<stevenh>if vehicles are always going to be coded to the maglev track-type, then we should lock in 2.
23:39<stevenh>and then let this patch go to trunk immediately with that little change.
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23:39<Eddi|zuHause3>stevenh: what exactly are you trying to achieve?
23:39<stevenh>and then add a new user-patch for allowing realistic acceleration of 'maglevs'
23:40<stevenh>Eddi|zuHause3, Japan Set wants catenary on maglev... for bullet trains.
23:40<DaleStan>They aren't coded to "maglev". They're coded to 0, 1, or 2. Which strings and sprites correspond to those values depend on the user-specified settings of electrifiedrailway and unifiedmaglev.
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23:40<stevenh>there is a variable to set this in the GRF realm, but due to OTTD allowing 4 track types and TTDP 3 there is a slight problem
23:41<@glx>DaleStan: <-- new version
23:42<stevenh>my assumption to this is that elrails will never be off...
23:42<stevenh>and that ottd has 0,1,2,3
23:43<Eddi|zuHause3>well, i don't count as a 100% secure source, but my understanding is that grf railtypes are [0,1,2] with a separate "electrified" flag
23:44<DaleStan>Eddi|zuHause3 is correct. you can't code a train to use track type 3 in NFO. You can code 00 (normal or electric, depending on traction setting and electrifiedrails), 01 (monorail or "third", depending on unifiedmaglev), or 02 (maglev or "third", also depending on unifiedmaglev).
23:44<Eddi|zuHause3>and ottd railtypes are [0,1,2,3], where grf 0 gets mapped to ottd 0, grf 0-E mapped to 1, grf 1 mapped to 2 and grf 2 mapped to 3
23:44<DaleStan>glx: That I like. Committing soon.
23:46<stevenh>how does one code a monorail for ottd?
23:47<stevenh>would they have to turn off elrails?
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23:47<@glx>,...,..., 0x05: { // Track type
23:47<@glx>,...,...,...,...uint8 tracktype = grf_load_byte(&buf);
23:47<@glx>,...,...,...,...switch (tracktype) {
23:47<@glx>,...,...,...,..., 0: rvi->railtype = rvi->engclass >= 2 ? RAILTYPE_ELECTRIC : RAILTYPE_RAIL; break;
23:47<@glx>,...,...,...,..., 1: rvi->railtype = RAILTYPE_MONO; break;
23:47<@glx>,...,...,...,..., 2: rvi->railtype = RAILTYPE_MAGLEV; break;
23:47<Eddi|zuHause3>no, monorails, maglevs and electrified coexist in ottd
23:47<@glx>Eddi|zuHause3 is right ;)
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23:48<Eddi|zuHause3>there is no setting comparable to "unifiedmaglev", because it is unnecessary
23:49<stevenh>but that's the issue... it makes a difference and needs to be 'emulated' in OTTD
23:49<Eddi|zuHause3>if the grf sets monorail type (1), it gets monorail type (2) in ottd, if the grf sets maglev type (2) it gets maglev type (3) in ottd. very simple
23:49<@glx>the grf can check if it is openttd and do what it should
23:50<stevenh>OTTD currently just responds with "3"
23:50<DaleStan>But what about grfs created before there was an OpenTTD check?
23:50<stevenh>glx, i like that idea.
23:50<stevenh>i'm just trying to cover all bases.
23:51<Eddi|zuHause3>it is up to the grf coder to not mix 1 and 2 when he wants all to behave the same
23:52<stevenh>my current issue is that i just have no ability to turn catenary on monorail.
23:52<stevenh>maybe I should just add that flag
23:52<Eddi|zuHause3>that is purely a ottd-code issue
23:52<DaleStan>Indeed. And most coders obey that. But the other purpose of unifiedmaglev is to report whether "third" uses monorail or maglev sprites, so that GRFs can change the correct sprites. Either unifiedmaglev is 1, and "third" uses monorail sprites, or unifiedmaglev is 2, and "third" uses maglev sprites.
23:52<stevenh>and then have the GRF authors check for OTTD and then set the specific tracktype to have catenary
23:53<Eddi|zuHause3>catenary is hardcoded to railtype electric
23:53<stevenh>Eddi|zuHause3, yes, it is...
23:53<DaleStan>But what about grfs created before there was a way to set catenary both places?
23:53<stevenh>but sometimes we want it on the other track types too :)
23:53<stevenh>DaleStan, that's why i don't have a solution yet.
23:54<stevenh>that's why I suggested OTTD report "2" for unifiedmaglev and then they'll just all go to track type 3 and hack that.
23:54<stevenh>and then just add a patch to enable realistic accel on the third.
23:55<Eddi|zuHause3>it should be more or less search&replace for every instance of "type==RAILTYPE_ELECTRIC" to "RailtypeHasCatenary(type)"
23:55<stevenh>Eddi|zuHause3, already done.
23:55<stevenh>for maglev and the currently existing variable to allow catenary on maglev
23:56<stevenh>now i just need one for catenary on monorail
23:56<Eddi|zuHause3>ottd should report "unifiedmaglev off", because it does not unify anything
23:56<DaleStan>glx: should Makefile.setup:61 also be modified.
23:56<stevenh>Eddi|zuHause3, that's also correct, since it doesn't... but the fact is that setting it to "2" just means "maglev is still maglev, no adjustments"
23:57<DaleStan>But "off" can't be reported to GRFs. There is no way to test for on vs off. Only to test for its value.
23:57<stevenh>because on TTDP, unifiedmaglev cannot be "3" if elrails is on
23:57<Eddi|zuHause3>DaleStan: i was under the impression that "off" and "0" mean the same thing
23:58<Eddi|zuHause3>well, it does that for openttd "patches"
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23:59<DaleStan>glx erm... :31
23:59<Eddi|zuHause3>DaleStan: it follows the same reasoning as (int)False == 0
---Logclosed Wed Mar 12 00:00:17 2008