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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-03-14

---Logopened Fri Mar 14 00:00:35 2008
---Logclosed Fri Mar 14 00:16:54 2008
---Logopened Fri Mar 14 00:18:12 2008
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05:06<Celestar>gah some people suck
05:07<Gekz>some dont
05:07<Gonozal_VIII>and others do
05:07<Celestar>some people "accidently" remove central installations for critical programs and then go on holiday :S
05:07<Celestar>leaving me with the task of repairing the broken installation
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05:09<Celestar>lusers :S
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05:37<Draakon>hello everyone
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05:40<Draakon>its afternoon here
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06:13<shodan>a1270: your exit message is... funny
06:13<shodan>what's it in relation to?
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07:01<a1270>shodan, is part of a review of a japanese movie. I don't remember which one though.
07:05<a1270>yes, thanks for finding that Gonozal_VIII.
07:06<Gonozal_VIII>that was easy... the only other hit on google was a chatlog of this chan
07:06<a1270>Probably one i idle in.
07:07*a1270 tried googling a few weeks back and got zero hits
07:07<Gonozal_VIII>this as in this ;-)
07:07*a1270 is still tired
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08:47<SmatZ> anyone else noticed this? :)
08:47<@peter1138>I noticed the thread...
08:48<SmatZ>mmm... "experienced" is a better word here?
08:48<SmatZ>I guess it is a joke
08:49<SmatZ>but it looks interesting
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08:51<klauskaan>hi all
08:51<SmatZ>hi klauskaan
08:52<klauskaan>how come my usual nick is now protected?
08:52<klauskaan>its been a while ;)
08:52<ln>SmatZ: certain display drivers support changing screen orientation, even on-the-fly.
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08:53<ln>well, not screen but graphics card drivers.
08:57<Gonozal_VIII>those upside down screenshots are rofl
08:59<Gonozal_VIII>if it's a fake, it was a lot of work
09:00<SmatZ>I am not sure if you do a screenshot when you have rotated screen
09:00<SmatZ>if it will be rotated or not
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09:00<SmatZ>I think it won't
09:01<SmatZ>because when you open that screenshot in an editor with rotated screen
09:01<SmatZ>it would be rotated twice
09:01<SmatZ>I guess
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09:01<Gonozal_VIII>strange, that trees, buildings, cursor, everything is rotated but the terrain and road sprites seem to be ok
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09:02*LordAzamath got his report card today
09:02<Gonozal_VIII>is that something important?
09:03*frosch123 puts "australian view"-patch on this todo-list
09:03<LordAzamath>Gonozal_VIII, my marks for this term are there :P
09:04<Gonozal_VIII>so that's a no?
09:05<LordAzamath>.. maybe
09:05<LordAzamath>but the important thing aong with it is that I now officially have holidays
09:05<@peter1138>School is bullshit.
09:05<@peter1138>LordAzamath, so lots of time to play OpenTTD?
09:06<LordAzamath>peter1138, who knows?
09:06<LordAzamath>maybe I have some other MORE important things to do :P
09:06<@peter1138>Like what? Graphics for (Open)TTD(Patch)?
09:07*LordAzamath wonders what is more important than 24/7 nolife OpenTTD :P
09:07<LordAzamath>peter1138, perhaps
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09:14<@peter1138># imagine me saying the following
09:24*Gonozal_VIII imagines peter1138 saying "the following"
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09:34<SmatZ>Celestar: welcome :)
09:34<Celestar>heya SmatZ
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09:34<Celestar>peter1138: you got RichK's email addy?
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09:39<@Belugas># remember when you were young
09:39<@Belugas>#you shone like the sun
09:39<@Belugas>#SHINE ONE You crazy Diamond
09:39<HMage>мямя, всем привет
09:39<Celestar>Belugas: ?
09:40<@Belugas>#Now there's a look in your eyes
09:40<@Belugas>#like black holes in the sky
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09:40*Belugas sings Pink Floyd, Shine on you crazy Diamond ;)
09:41<@Belugas>ans listens to it too...
09:41<NukeBuster>Are you able to play that song aswell?
09:41<@Belugas>of course...
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09:42<NukeBuster>Nice :)
09:43<@peter1138>Celestar, no
09:43<@Belugas>when Wish You Were Here got out to the stores, i bought it the same day, and spent the following week practicing the solos
09:43<@Belugas>i mean... nothing else than playing it
09:44<@Belugas>like... not a foot outside, just eating sleeping and playing
09:44<@Belugas>man... that album blew me away for good
09:46<@Belugas>psychedelic era
09:46<@Belugas>good old times...
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09:46<SmatZ>[14:44:09] <Belugas> like... not a foot outside, just eating sleeping and playing <--- yeah, like coding OTTD :)
09:48<@Belugas>maybe for you :) but now, i've got a kid who likes grabbing all my attention when he's awake :D
09:49*Belugas did a brief computation and found out he was 11ish at that time... staggering how time flies
09:49<Celestar>Belugas: at what time?
09:49<Celestar>when Voyager 1/2 were launched?
09:49<@Belugas>in 75?
09:50<Celestar>er 77
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09:50<@Belugas>your pic reminds me of The Finger Of God
09:50<Celestar>August and September 1977. I wasn't even born then
09:50<@Belugas>i was
09:50<Celestar>and both probes are still actively doing science
09:50<@Belugas>i don't remember any particuliar brouhaha for the event...
09:51<@Belugas>i do remember clearly the first time the shuttle was launched
09:51<Celestar>well. It was manned. So Brouhaha :)
09:51<Celestar>Voyagers were planned to last 12 years.
09:51<@Belugas>i do remember seeing it flying around Montreal, on top of a 747 too...
09:51<Celestar>now they're over 30 years old
09:52<frosch123>hmm, I guess my generation clearly remembers tschernobyl on tv...
09:52<Celestar>expected to operate for another 12.
09:52<Celestar>That'd be 42 years of continuous operation.
09:52<Celestar>Nice power plant they have ;)
09:52*Belugas agrees with frosch123
09:53<frosch123>was 4 at that time :)
09:53*SmatZ was 1 :)
09:53<Celestar>420 Watts nominal (down to 300 something how I think)
09:53<@Belugas>was a tiny little bit older...
09:54<@Belugas># remember when you were young
09:54<@Belugas>so true...
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09:54<frosch123>I was no longer allowed to eat blueberries from the forrest :(
09:55<Celestar>Voyager 2 is the only probe to have visted Uranus and Neptune. No missions to those planets till then. Shame.
09:55<@Belugas>no kidding frosch123 ????
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09:56*Celestar wishes the politians would finally increase space spending :S
09:56-!-Zr40 [] has joined #openttd
09:57<Celestar>like about 10% of what the Iraq war cost could go to NASA :)
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09:57<Celestar>another 10% in fusion research
09:57<ln>frosch123: forest
09:57<frosch123>Belugas: The avarage radiation was increased for at least one year in europe, and noone knew what was coming down with the rain
09:57<@Belugas>space does not bring back oil ...
09:57<Celestar>Belugas: with fusion power plants and space flight, there's no need for oil
09:58<frosch123>ln: average?
09:58<Celestar>You just get He-3 and H-2 from space and fuse it on Earth. 75% of our planetary problems would be solved.
09:59<frosch123>Celestar: like you want to bomb three quarter off?
09:59<Celestar>frosch123: nope.
09:59<Celestar>but 75% or our problems are because of the ill-distribution of wealth which is directly correlated to the ill-distribution of energy.
10:00<Celestar>Fusion power is a way to solve the dilemma. The only way I can see up to now.
10:00<frosch123>insert water between wealth and energy
10:00<@Belugas>Celestar, obviously, the problem is how much is going into the pockets of the rich ones ;) Dropping oil is going to stirr some controversy. PLus, rememeber petroleum is not only generating gaz for the pumps...
10:00<Celestar>frosch123: not between, but the water distribution problem is also part of the energy distribution problem.
10:00<Celestar>Belugas: no, but 99+% is
10:03*Celestar is amazed by the shortsightedness of politicians every day
10:05<Celestar>it may sound cruel, but maybe the Columbia disaster was the best thing that happend to space exploration in 30 years.
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10:08*Belugas though it was the mars twin robots...
10:09<Celestar>space exploration without human exploration is meaningless imho
10:09<Celestar>The Shuttle resulted in a "go nowhere, do doing"-approach that NASA had for 25 years.
10:09<@Belugas>or Cassini-Huygens probe even...
10:10<Celestar>similar to us Europeans, who still have a "go nowhere, do nothing"-approach
10:10<Celestar>Cassini-Huygens is an outstanding mission
10:10<@Belugas>i differ from your opinion, Celestar. Robot expolaration is far more usefull than human ones
10:10<frosch123>agrees with belugas
10:10<@Belugas>they last way longer,
10:10<@Belugas>can accomplish way more,
10:11<@Belugas>and have way more instrunments to evaluate surroundings
10:11<@Belugas>they only lack quick decisions
10:11<Celestar>From a rocket scientist point of view, Robot exploration is (should be) used to pave way for human exploration.
10:11<frosch123>and what shall the humans do, which robots cannot?
10:11<Celestar>Robots transmit data, Humans transmit cognitions.
10:11<HMage>VERSION=`svnversion -n`
10:12<@Belugas>and make errors...
10:12<ln>frosch123: reproduce
10:12<Tefad>rocket scientist.. i assist in research and development for flight vechicle guidance and control, does this acount for anything?
10:12<Celestar>frosch123: search for evidence of past life on Mars.
10:12<Celestar>frosch123: pave way for future "usage" of Mars
10:12<@Belugas>and robots can take decisions too, if they are not using OpenTTD AI, they should do well...
10:12<Tefad>usage.. exploitation
10:12<Celestar>Tefad: "colonization & Terraforming" is the politically correct term :>
10:12<HMage>robots with openttd ai will walk in a very funny waty
10:13<Celestar>plus: from a cost point of view, robotic missions are no cheaper the human missions.
10:13<Celestar>They never have been, and never will be.
10:14<Celestar>Belugas: cost per experiment or cost per obtained knowledge is pretty equal between robotic and human missions.
10:14<keyweed_>humans have been built and tested. they're fairly reliable and can adapt without the need of elaborate programming
10:14*Belugas cannot imagine the cost of having humans doing the job of Spirit and Opportunity for the 1470 days and more they are working out there
10:14<Celestar>for experiments, the average is around $20 million / experiment. ISS can lower this to around $5.
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10:15<keyweed_>the downside of using humans is that they usually want to be flown back
10:15*Belugas thinks Celestar is not rational on that matter.
10:15<Celestar>keyweed_: yes.
10:15<Celestar>Belugas: I'm pretty pragmatic on that matter.
10:16<Celestar>A manned mission to the moon, if done right, is no more expensive than Cassini-Huygens.
10:17<Celestar>"The best computer is a man, and it’s the only one that can be mass-produced by unskilled labor"
10:17<@Belugas>then, give me the digits of having 2 humans walking on Mars for 1470 and more days. Including life support and all
10:17<keyweed_>too bad people aren't willing to go on kamikaze space missions
10:17<keyweed_>that would reduce cost a lot
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10:17<Celestar>Belugas: the thing is, how much do we obtain from a 500-day human mission to Mars. Estimations are about 100x that of what all missions to Mars have given us up to now.
10:18<@Belugas>or better yet, waht type of spaceship will be required to sustain a human on the Cassini mission...
10:18<@Belugas>no... we are talking about costs, not dividents
10:18<Celestar>A properly designed human mission to Mars is about 30 billion dollars.
10:19<Celestar>that's 2.5 months worth of war on Iraq
10:19<@Belugas>how long for that mission?
10:19<keyweed_>i think it can be done cheaper
10:19-!-keyweed_ is now known as keyweed
10:19<keyweed>virgin (russian?) style
10:19<Celestar>Belugas: 500 days there, 1000 days on Mars, 500 days back. 6 people.
10:20<@Belugas>is it a personal estimate?
10:20<keyweed>but it doesn't matter much what we think. the human race rather spends it's time blowing eachother to small bits.
10:20<keyweed>and i think this will be the most popular activity for a long time to come.
10:21<Celestar>Belugas: no, it's an estimate from people who iterate reference missions to Mars within NASA
10:21<@Belugas>got the link?
10:21<Celestar>Belugas: not here. At home somewhere.
10:22<Celestar>Belugas: you can also read up on the "Mars Direct"-mission by Robert Zubrin.
10:22<Celestar>30 billion however, assume that a limited number of missions are flown, not only one.
10:22<@Belugas>will look at it when time allows it, which i snot the case anynmore
10:23*Celestar heads back to analyzing 1.5 TB of data :S
10:25<Celestar>damnit. I think I'm getting sick
10:26<Celestar>dunno if it's the data or something else :P
10:26<Celestar>"Crash programs fail because they are based on the theory that, with nine women pregnant, you can get a baby a month." :)
10:26<keyweed>'out of memory in central nervous system'
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10:32<Ammler>frosch123: is it possible to save output from grf2html on a custom location?
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10:33<frosch123>Ammler: like some "-o path" option to put data in "path/grfname/..."
10:35<Ammler>yoh :-)
10:35<Ammler>well, else I could make a script and move it somewhere else...
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10:39<Ammler>hmm, does that mean, there is such a option?
10:40<frosch123>no yet :), but maybe in 0.5
10:41<frosch123>I guess easiest way is currently to copy the .grf to the wanted location and execute grf2html there
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10:46<Ammller>frosch123: and could you upgrade the output to XHMTL
10:47<Ammller>then you could use the output easier for other things too...
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10:48<Ammller>I thought about using your tool for extracting GRFID and Name...
10:48<frosch123>my knowledge about html and xhtml is on a level of 2002. If they are small changes you have to give me an example, or write a patch :) If they are big changes you will have to wait at least for 0.7
10:49<frosch123>Ammler: In that case get the svn source, get freepascal and use the newgrf parser
10:50<frosch123>of grf2html
10:51<LordAzamath>Ammller, you meant vehID?
10:51<Ammller>LordAzamath: no, just GRFID and Name (Action8)
10:52<LordAzamath>but... Why do you need that?
10:52<Ammller>I like to semiautomate "our" GRFTable
10:53<Ammller>and also including GRFID and md5sum
10:54<frosch123>Ammller: Have you tried to run OTTD with "-d grf=3"?
10:54<Eddi|zuHause3>and why not just use the openttd code?
10:54<frosch123>I guess it prints the information you are searching for
10:55<LordAzamath>If you start making that xhtml thingie, you could add an option so it would gather all used IDs for vehicles.. So one can see which one is free :P
10:55<frosch123>LordAzamath: Something similiar will be in 0.5
10:56<Ammller>frosch123: is it possible to run OTTD without starting the game?
10:56<frosch123>Try "--help" or "-h"
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11:03<Ammller>hmm, I fear ottd debug mode doesn't help
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11:04<+glx>Ammler: probably with -v null:ticks=0
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11:50<UnderBuilder>one question... is possible to put desert in temperate?
11:51<Yorick>wwottdgd hacked it
11:51*Sacro plays with WUBI
11:52<Draakon>plain mock-up perhaps?
11:52<Yorick>no, because it had a patch released
11:53<Draakon>404 - Not Found
11:53<Yorick>but it got kinda removed })
11:54<Yorick>maybe you could ask TrueBrain
11:54<Draakon>hes not here
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11:55<UnderBuilder>how they made it? I hear that the desert and the snow had the same ID for terrains and then would be impossible to have them together
11:55<Yorick>if you change the ID
11:55<frosch123>UnderBuilder: It only worked for exactly that map. Hardcoded.
11:55<Yorick>its "hacked"
11:56<frosch123>UnderBuilder: But you can open the cheat menu and switch landscape until ottd crashes :p
11:56<Yorick>desert gets changed to snow that way
11:56<Yorick>same id ^^
11:57<UnderBuilder>would more fun if toyland were too added
11:57<Yorick>but cola factories that produce wood are fun :)
11:57<Draakon>it crashes for that? i have been switching landscape for 10 min row(after i closed the game) and no crashed happend
11:57<UnderBuilder>but that's a overload
11:57<Eddi|zuHause3>it's a "if (coordinate in rectangel and height > blah) make desert"
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11:59<Yorick>itsn't that "make snow"?
12:00<@Belugas>1) there is snow level in temperate
12:01<@Belugas>2) it's currently a binary system: if there is not desert, it's forest (or none)
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12:01<@Belugas>3) the sysatem will have to be extended to "regions" of snow/desert/forest/tree forest
12:02<@Belugas>4) the whole climate scheme wil have to be re-think over, as there are lots of entertwined logics here and there
12:02<@Belugas>so dream on baby
12:02<Draakon>lol, why dream if you can code?
12:03<@Belugas>1) there is NO snow level in temperate...
12:03<Sacro>Draakon: why code if you can dream
12:03<@Belugas>why code if it does not appeal?
12:03<Draakon>sacro: so you can have the feature instead dream of it
12:03<@Belugas>why code a rewrite??
12:04<Draakon>maybe its needed?
12:04<frosch123>why code if you don't dream
12:04<@Belugas>wy code a lenghty process just for an eye candy?
12:05<Draakon>so the game looks good
12:05<Draakon>and morden
12:05<hylje>to lift constraints
12:05<@Belugas>the game looks old by nature.
12:05<@Belugas>that does not going to make it fresher
12:05<@Belugas>this is not a constraint
12:06<@Belugas>this is a desing
12:06<@Belugas>to change it means a rewrite of the design
12:06<hylje>design is pretty much about what to constrain
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12:07<@Belugas>a constraint is not a requirememt for a change of design
12:07<@Belugas>that is called a new feature
12:07<Draakon>right right, for conclusion, we can code, we can dream or we can play
12:07<@Belugas>a constraint is , for example, no more than 32 widgets to be referenced in a single window
12:08<@Belugas>that has been lifted
12:08<@Belugas>a constraint is that there is no more than 255 slots for vehicle types
12:09<@Belugas>and it's going to be liffted
12:09<@Belugas>but the climate stuff is not the same thing at all
12:09<@Belugas>so dream on, and shift climate with the cheats
12:09<@Belugas>and play, of course
12:10<Draakon>or code, if person wants to code, let him code, shall we?
12:10*Sacro whistles
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12:11<UnderBuilder>well, the climates thing for me is not necesary, so instead why not make a grf for making tropic/artic only industries appear in temperate?
12:12<UnderBuilder>that would be nice to see in WWOTTDGD instead of the buggy multi-climate patch
12:13<@Belugas>there are two ways of coding. To hack or to code. I hope that if anyone wants to dwelve on the matter, it would be to code it, and not to hack it
12:14-!-LordAzamath [~LAlord]] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> <- \o/]
12:14<Yorick>what's the dev opinion about my flags-in-clientlist-patch?
12:17<UnderBuilder>so, what about the omni industrial temperate?
12:18<frosch123>UnderBuilder: Read newgrfspecs about Action0 for cargos and industries. That should be enough for you to do it.
12:19<@Belugas>Yorick: Me? sorry to be blunt, but i don't care, since i dont play network. and i don't kow where it is right now, so i can't even comment on the code style nor the code itself
12:19<frosch123>If you fear hex coding, use grfmaker, which should suit perfectly for an action0-only task.
12:20<Draakon>grfmaker? what the heck is that?
12:20<Yorick>ok, (but no MP?!)
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12:21<@Belugas>i don't even play anymore
12:21<@Belugas>i code and i code
12:21<frosch123>Draakon: a gui-based program for coding newgrfs, search forums
12:21<Yorick>I'll upload it somewhere as soon as I have the extra language flags in place
12:21<Draakon>hmm, sounds neet
12:25<Draakon>frosch123:do i still need to write in Hex with GRFMaker?
12:26<@Belugas>waht's wrong with hex?
12:26<Draakon>bunch of numbers and letters that doesnt make sense(c++, java, php and python for example make)
12:27<Draakon>like reading some cordinates
12:27*frosch123 has tried grfmaker only one or two times and does hardly know details.
12:27<@Belugas>well... they do make an awfull lot of sens....
12:27<@Belugas>and there are easy ways to translate them
12:28<@Belugas>on windows, the calculator has a "scientific" mode where yu can switch between hex, dec and binary
12:28<Draakon>for me, as a noob, looked at C++ in the first time and Hex coding in grf, i understanded C++ better then Hex
12:28<@Belugas>even octal...
12:28<@Belugas>hex is so simpler than c++...
12:29<@Belugas>the mian idea to keep in mind in 16
12:29<frosch123>Draakon: You won't have to deal with hex that much when using grfmaker
12:29<@Belugas>that's the key
12:29<@Belugas>0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15
12:29<@Belugas>0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 A B C D E F
12:29<@Belugas>that's it
12:30<@Belugas>with that, you can understand it
12:30<Draakon>belugas: C++ is like a normal text that you can like read like a story of an adventure, while Hex you read it like it was your first time in even reading something
12:30<Yorick>I fail at adding flags :(
12:32<@Belugas>Draakon, hex is just a numbering system based on 16. C++ is a whole language on its own
12:32<@Belugas>you cannot compare them at all...
12:32<Draakon>maybe some can, but still C++ is easier for me
12:32<Yorick>it displays a questionmark in the client list, and a lang_any sprite in the client window
12:32<Yorick>I probably forgot a place
12:33<@Belugas>well... don't let it stop you
12:33<@Belugas>just have a hex to dex and a dec to hex converter
12:33<@Belugas>and after a while, it will come fluidly
12:33<Yorick>?base 16 10 0xFF
12:33<@Belugas>and for the record, i prefer a lot more the hex system...
12:33<Yorick>@base 16 10 FF
12:33<@DorpsGek>Yorick: 255
12:34<Yorick>when I decode openttdw.grf, the extra flags are in it
12:35<Yorick>I've not changed the md5 check yet, but that shouldn't be a problem
12:35<UnderBuilder>is there a programming language hex-based like nfo?
12:36<frosch123>UnderBuilder: There are languages based on whitespace
12:36<Eddi|zuHause3>UnderBuilder: you can code directly in machine code
12:37<frosch123>Yorick: Did you increase FLAGS_SPRITE_COUNT ?
12:37<+glx>Yorick: did you update the action 5 handler?
12:37<Yorick>the what?
12:37<frosch123>hehe, faster :)
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12:37<Yorick>I increased the FLAGS_SPRITE_COUNT yes
12:38<Yorick>the sprites are added to the info
12:38<frosch123>Does "openttd -d grf=2" report that the correct amount of sprites was loaded?
12:38<Yorick>I'll see
12:39-!-Draakon [] has quit [Quit: Meh, hex is teh l337 speak :P]
12:40<Yorick>it doesn't
12:40<Yorick>it reports 28 sprites loaded
12:40<Yorick>while the default flag count is 29 :o
12:40<+glx>I know, you didn't update the action 5 line in nfo
12:40<Yorick>I probably didn't no ^^
12:41<Yorick>I don't know anything about nfo
12:41<Yorick>05 14 1D, it says
12:41<frosch123>update the <num-sprites> field
12:42<+glx>1D -> 1E
12:42<Yorick>@base 16 10 1D
12:42<@DorpsGek>Yorick: 29
12:42<Yorick>lets see
12:43<Yorick>@base 10 16 36
12:43<@DorpsGek>Yorick: 24
12:44<Yorick>that's clear, isn't it, but not very 1Ey
12:45<Yorick>I'll try with 05 14 24
12:48<Yorick>ok, now the server list fixing
12:49<@DorpsGek>Patrick`: base <fromBase> [<toBase>] <number>
12:50<Patrick`>@base 10 1 30
12:50<@DorpsGek>Patrick`: base <fromBase> [<toBase>] <number>
12:50<Patrick`>@base 10 2 30
12:50<@DorpsGek>Patrick`: 11110
12:51<UnderBuilder>I'm guessing...
12:51<UnderBuilder>@base 10 5 28
12:51<@DorpsGek>UnderBuilder: 103
12:51<Celestar>oh man
12:51<Patrick`>aww, he only goes up to base 36
12:51<Celestar>I really need some help with that Newgrf stuff soon :P
12:51<Yorick>now it still displays the any flag in the network list
12:52<Yorick>I probably forgot something else
12:52<LordAzamath>Celestar, what for?
12:54<Celestar>I'll go ahead with the Newgrf_ports
12:54<Celestar>and join forces with RichK on this one
12:55<Celestar>Belugas: why do we still have a newhouses branch?
12:55*Yorick needs help
12:55*LordAzamath is willing to help :P
12:55<Celestar>doing what?
12:55<Yorick>LordAzamath can't help :p
12:55<Yorick>I'm adding some flags
12:56<LordAzamath>I can check your nfo :P
12:56<Yorick>but the gamelist keeps displaying the anyflag on unknown languages
12:56<Yorick>LordAzamath: the loading is done correctly ;)
12:57<Celestar>Yorick: where is the draw-flag code?
12:57<Yorick>but, I have to go now :(
12:57<Yorick>bye all!
12:57-!-Yorick [] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> <- The alternative IRC client]
13:03<@Belugas>Celestar, we do still have newhouses ?
13:03<@Belugas>that is new to me
13:04<frosch123>no, there is no newhouses branch
13:08<@Belugas>svn list svn:// do confirm both my surprise and frosch123's statement :)
13:09<@peter1138>map.. hehe
13:09<@Belugas>yeah :D
13:09<@Belugas>wb peter1138
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13:10<Yexo>When trying to compile openttd under cygwin, I keep getting "pngread.c: (...): undefined reference to `_setjmp`"
13:10<Yexo>libpng and libpng-dev are installed
13:10<pax```_>hi, i've a problem... I can't seem to find `win' button =( jk, I was wondering what makes a town/station no longer accept goods... Is there some kind of goods counter that says a town needs x goods and as soon as it's fulfilled it doesn't accept anymore?
13:11<@Belugas>mostly, the town has shrinked
13:11<LordAzamath>if it doesn't have enough goods accepting buildings in range
13:12<LordAzamath>then it won't accept goods
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13:12<@Belugas>gonna said that...
13:12<@Belugas>saved me some keystrokes :D
13:12<Gonozal_VIII>use the ? tool and click on buildings, then you see things like 3/8 goods
13:12<pax```_>=( Is there a way to make it unshrink? >.<
13:12<@Belugas>not deleting houses, for once...
13:12<Yexo>build a pax netwerk :)
13:12<LordAzamath>have a passenger service running to the town
13:13<LordAzamath>and perhaps Fund new buildings
13:13<Tekky>Is the current passenger destinations patch similar to passenger destinations in SimuTrans?
13:13<UnderBuilder>idea for controlling the town grow in temperate: make the towns only grow when passengers/mail/goods are being supplied
13:13<@Belugas>maybe, maybe not
13:13<@Belugas>ask prissi
13:14<Patrick`>UnderBuilder: isn't that already implemented?
13:14<Yexo>UnderBuilder, but goods are only accepted by big enough towns, so small towns cannot grow that way
13:14<Patrick`>delivering passengers to small towns makes them grow
13:14<Patrick`>but towns naturally grow at a slow rate, is that what you want to disable?
13:14<Yexo>yeah, but UnderBuilder said make them ONLY grow when they are supplied
13:14<mrfrenzy>it would be nice if all towns accepted goods, the amount proportionate to town size
13:15<mrfrenzy>and town growth increases the more goods, food, and passengers they get
13:15<UnderBuilder>I forget, only towns with above 1000 citizens require goods
13:15<UnderBuilder>or maybe 500/750
13:15<pax```_>Ouch... Fund new buildings is costly :(
13:16<@Belugas>you think? chek how it cost to fund a new industry ;)
13:16<UnderBuilder>so you require to transport pax and mail constantly to make the city build offices and buildings that accept goods and then you can do it grow more
13:16<Patrick`>buildings accept goods.
13:16<Patrick`>Yexo: I thought they still grew on supply when town growth was set to "off"
13:17<+glx>Yexo: setjmp is not provided by libpng
13:17<+glx>it should be part of standard dev env
13:17<Yexo>Patrick`, didn't know that, gonna try it out
13:17<Yexo>glx, any idea what package it could be in?
13:17<LordAzamath>ok.. bbl perhaps
13:18<UnderBuilder>also, wasn't actually the town grow in temperate based on quantity of stations active?
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13:18<frosch123>Yexo: try libc
13:18<Yexo>I can compile, but only with ./configure --without-libfreetype --without-libpng
13:22<+glx>you followed ?
13:23<Yexo>glx, shame on me, I didn't
13:25<UnderBuilder>one question, the town growth in temperate depends on passengers transported or in the quantity of stations active in the city?
13:27<Yexo>looks like my cygwin install is f*cked up
13:27<Yexo>A lot of packages I'm sure I have installed don't show up in the setup program
13:32<Yexo>reading the wiki better did it
13:32<Yexo>I had to pass --disable-static to ./configure
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13:35<pax```_>Is there a way to tell trains to just wait until they have a green light rather than going back looking for another way?
13:36<mrfrenzy>how do you mean "going back"
13:36<mrfrenzy>if you use one way signals they will not reverse
13:37<Yexo>they will reverse even with one-way signals
13:37<Yexo>only there turn back quickly because they arrive at the back of another one-way signal
13:37<mrfrenzy>well unless you disable reversing like me ;)
13:38-!-anhedral is now known as dih
13:38<pax```_>Hmm... How do you disable reversing then?
13:39<mrfrenzy>in the patch "trains only reverse at stations and end of line"
13:39<mrfrenzy>or somethng like that
13:43-!-Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
13:43<kaan>I just found the nicest bug :)
13:43-!-Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
13:45<dih>say( !Sacro ? 'shit' : 'hello' );
13:45<dih>what a friendly welcome, eh?
13:45<+glx>kaan: probably nothing we can do :)
13:46<mrfrenzy>kaan: WHY, do you keep your music in C:\testpath890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789 ?!
13:46<kaan>glx: oh, thats too bad
13:46<Yexo>I linked openttd succesfully now, but it won't start
13:46<Yexo>It shows a window that is completely black with the openttd-cursor in it
13:46<kaan>mrfrenzy: actually i dont
13:46<mrfrenzy>kinda figured ;)
13:47<kaan>mrfrenzy: i keep it in C:\Documents and Settings\Klaus\My Documents\My OTTD Builds\trunk_r12187_yapp_r12187_v4_3_svn.patch_08-03-2008_14-41-02
13:47<mrfrenzy>aah, that's actually a valid path ;)
13:50-!-Sacr1 [~ben@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
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13:51<UnderBuilder>UnderBuilder> one question, the town growth in temperate depends on passengers transported or in the quantity of stations active in the city?
13:53<Tekky>Yexo: which operating system do you have problems running OpenTTD on?
13:53<Yexo>windows xp
13:53<Tekky>which compiler are you using?
13:53<Yexo>and I can run openttd fine, just my newly compiled version gives problems
13:53<Yexo>gcc 3.4.4 under cygwin
13:54<mrfrenzy>Yexo: have you tried buildottd
13:54<Yexo>yep, works fine
13:54<mrfrenzy>works really smooth here
13:54<mrfrenzy>you can also use that environment to build whatever version you like
13:54<Yexo>if I compile with ./configure --without-libfreetype --without-libpng && make it works fine
13:54<Tekky>I'm not sure if the cygwin POSIX emulation environment is compatible with OpenTTD. Try using MinGW/MSYS instead.
13:54<Yexo>But I just compiled with ./configure --disable-static and that gives problems
13:55<kaan>Yexo: when compiling under cygwin there are some .ddl files you need to copy to the ottd dir
13:55<Yexo>I did that, before it wouldn't even start
13:55<dih>.ddl ?
13:55<Yexo>and that's only when compiling with --disable-static
13:55<+glx>Yexo: if you use --disable-static you need the dlls
13:55<kaan>oh, .dll
13:58<UnderBuilder>one question, with an 256k connection what is the maximum mapzise of the server I can join?
13:59<mrfrenzy>doesn't matter
13:59<mrfrenzy>only problem is if you can't keep up to the changes
13:59<+glx>depends onmax_join_time I think
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14:02<Celestar>boo :P
14:02<@Bjarni>hi Celestar
14:02<@Bjarni>long time no see
14:02<@Bjarni>we missed you
14:03<kaan>hi bjarni
14:04<Yexo>Well, I'll just give up for now ;(
14:04<@Bjarni>hi kaan
14:04<@Bjarni>long time no see :)
14:04<@Bjarni>did I enter some sort of time warp or something?
14:04<kaan>yes, but dont tell anyone ;)
14:04<@Bjarni>the channel is full of people who haven't been here for ages
14:05<Celestar>shit happens :P
14:06<dih>you are late
14:06<dih>late late late
14:06<Gonozal_VIII>channel was not scrolling and i didn't notice :-/
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14:12<@Belugas>kaan, i think that your is not related to ottd
14:12<@peter1138>Right, so...
14:13<kaan>Belugas: ok, then what is it?
14:13<@Belugas>it might be more related to the os's palyer it self
14:13<@Belugas>thing is, i do not see yet any array delimiting the name been send to the driver yet
14:13<@peter1138>Not MAX_PATH?
14:13<@Belugas>in fact, it it a pchar
14:13<+glx>shoud be MAX_PATH
14:13-!-divoafx [] has joined #openttd
14:14<@peter1138>Which is 260.
14:14<kaan>hmmm, then it would be likely that its a windows thing
14:14-!-divo [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
14:14<@Belugas>your filename reaches 130 chars, more or less
14:15<@Belugas>who will double, i think, the lenght, or something
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14:16<@Belugas>char filename[MAX_PATH];
14:18<+glx>kaan: using win32 or dmusic?
14:19<kaan>glx ohhh, dont ask tough questions ;) where do i look it up? i think it might be win32 as i didnt include any dx headers
14:19<+glx>,...char start_song[260]; <-- nice magic value there :)
14:20*Celestar is going home
14:20<Celestar>have a nice weekend
14:20<@peter1138>Bye Celestar.
14:20<kaan>bye :)
14:20<@Belugas>bye Celestar
14:21<Sacro>!seen michi_cc
14:21<Sacro>~seen michi_cc
14:21<Sacro>@seen michi_cc
14:21<@DorpsGek>Sacro: michi_cc was last seen in #openttd 1 week, 2 days, 21 hours, 18 minutes, and 9 seconds ago: <michi_cc> well, that doc change before was rather telling. enough time to prepare. I'm watching commits rather closely currently, have to keep up with what I might have to change this time again :)
14:21<Sacro>make[1]: *** No rule to make target `yapf/follow_track.d', needed by `yapf/follow_track.o'. Stop.
14:21<@peter1138>Use the right revision...
14:22<@peter1138>12179. YAPP 4.2...
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14:28<@Belugas>glx, maybe, just wid guess, the 260 value has been hardcoded since it would have been a mess to add the proper include
14:29<dih>hello Belugas
14:29<@Belugas>hey Dih
14:29<dih>a capital D ??
14:29<dih>that hurts
14:30<@Bjarni>it calls for a capital punishment
14:30<+glx>Belugas: no MAX_PATH is available :)
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14:31<Pinchiukas>isn't there a free version of the data files so I could play openttd?
14:32<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r12366 /trunk/src/music/win32_m.cpp: -Codechange: use MAX_PATH instead hardcoded value
14:32<+glx>no you need the original files
14:32<dih>how far is the OpenGFX project?
14:33<dih>how OPEN is it actually :-P
14:33<@Belugas>depends wghere you are, regarding the forums server, dih :D
14:35<@Belugas>point taken and proven, glx
14:35<@Belugas>hey Wolf01
14:35<kaan>hi Wolf01
14:36<LordAzamath>dih, if you want to ask about OpenGFX, please highlight me :D
14:36<@peter1138>Is it open?
14:36<Pinchiukas>glx: as if everybody here has bought the game? :)
14:36<LordAzamath>peter1138: Is it closed? :o
14:37<@peter1138>Is it up?
14:37<LordAzamath>IIRC it used to be open though..
14:37<LordAzamath>well.. It hasn't yet died..
14:38<LordAzamath>but we haven't got any serious things lately either
14:38<@Bjarni>ln: what now?
14:38<LordAzamath>but one can... Bjarni!.. can't hope that somebody makes atleast one good thing per day
14:38<Pinchiukas>somebody give me the damn data files :) I'm so keen to try the game
14:38<ln>Bjarni: just an announcement that i noticed you have joined the channel.
14:39<pax```_>Pinchiukas, you can get the game at abandonware sites(hope i'm not breaking room rules by saying that >.<)
14:39<kaan>Pinchiukas: do a search in the forums
14:39<LordAzamath>breakruler :|
14:39<Pinchiukas>pax```_: if you were telling me a warez site then maybe
14:39<Pinchiukas>pax```_: anyway, thanks :)
14:39*peter1138 ponders running a Gonozal_VIII's patch-pack server
14:40<Pinchiukas>I'll make a package of the files and openttd and post it to my local tracker :D
14:40<LordAzamath>peter1138: Soon another ChrisIn will appear too :P
14:40<LordAzamath>then another server? :P
14:40<+glx>Pinchiukas: don't do that
14:40<@Bjarni><LordAzamath> but one can... Bjarni!.. can't hope that somebody makes atleast one good thing per day <--- I make at least one good thing each day
14:40<+glx>openttd files should not be distributed with ttd files
14:41<@Bjarni>in fact I make a lot of great stuff every day
14:41<@Bjarni>so much that it's hard for me to find time to code OTTD stuff :s
14:41<Pinchiukas>glx: why not? It's already an illegal warez site
14:41-!-SmatZ [] has joined #openttd
14:41<ln>glx: that doesn't make any difference really, does it.. (though I agree with you)
14:42<LordAzamath>bjarni, I was referring to OpenTTD related stuff..
14:42<LordAzamath>good things...
14:42<Pinchiukas>you're all confusing me
14:42<LordAzamath>like another sprites
14:42*LordAzamath sometimes confuzes himself too
14:43<LordAzamath>and because people have to do some other good things in their day aswell, you may not fear some several-day stallings :P
14:43<+glx>OpenTTD requires TTD files, but it should not distribute them
14:43<LordAzamath>Because the grfs are copyrighted
14:43<+glx>we may have problems if it's the case
14:43<LordAzamath>and OpenTTD has no rights to distribute them :P
14:44<@Bjarni>some people add those files though but we can't recommend those downloads... who knows if they have been modified in any way ;)
14:45<@Bjarni>there are some people drawing sprites and hoping that we will some day have our own graphics
14:45<Pinchiukas>so if I put the ttd data files along with openttd, then openttd would still not be distributing them
14:45<Pinchiukas>how many sprites are there anyway?
14:45<LordAzamath>trg1r.grf has...
14:45<@Bjarni>a lot
14:45<@Belugas>over 5000
14:45<ln>glx: if the copyright holders wanted to get OTTD in trouble, that would very well succeed with the current things. whether the graphics are distributed with it is only a small nuance.
14:45<LordAzamath>4791 sprites
14:45<Pinchiukas>but they're so small and simple
14:46<LordAzamath>Pinchiukas: Then try to draw them
14:46<@Belugas>sprites, sounds, music...
14:46<LordAzamath>if you think they are small and simple
14:46<+glx>ln: right, but it's safer to have separate things ;)
14:46<Pinchiukas>I'm not a drawer at all, but it looks simple to me :)
14:46<@Bjarni>ln: I disagree
14:46<SmatZ>ln: I doubt
14:46<Pinchiukas>I assume some of you are openttd developers?
14:46<@Bjarni>we are all just freaks in here
14:46<Pinchiukas>did you try contacting the ttd owners to ask to make the game open source or something?
14:46<LordAzamath>bjarni, glx and SmatZ certainly not
14:46<@Belugas>the point is, right now, distribution of data has never happended.
14:46<@Belugas>only exe
14:46<@Bjarni>doing nothing but bullying the new guys :P
14:46<SmatZ>nor Belugas
14:47<Pinchiukas>I was also curious about the multiplayer thing - how is that done? I just see scores of others? that doesn't sound much fun :/
14:47<ln>Bjarni: you are completely free to disagree, but that doesn't change anything.
14:47<@Bjarni>DorpsGek is a developer though
14:47<@Belugas>it's not a matter of contacting or not
14:47<LordAzamath>Pinchiukas: Atari was contacted..
14:47<@Belugas>it is a matter of ditribution
14:48<Pinchiukas>Belugas: I don't quite understand what you mean
14:48<@Belugas>distributin is not allowed
14:48<@Belugas>that's it
14:48<@Belugas>we tried many time to contact Atari
14:48<Pinchiukas>but if atari released the game/content as freeware, it'd be legal
14:48<SmatZ>Belugas: do you mean distribution of TTD?
14:48<Pinchiukas>Belugas: what did they say?
14:48<ln>Bjarni: copyrighted text strings are distributed with OTTD, for one.
14:49<@Belugas>the fact we did not received any answers does not mean we can distribtue anything
14:49<Pinchiukas>of course
14:49<Pinchiukas>ah the bastards! :)
14:49<+glx><Pinchiukas> but if atari released the game/content as freeware, it'd be legal <-- and ttd is still not free
14:49-!-pax```_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:49<Pinchiukas>it's a shame :/
14:50<Pinchiukas>but don't tell me that all of you have bought the game :)
14:50*LordAzamath wonders if a fundraiser to buy TTD rights to the community would have any value..
14:50<LordAzamath>Pinchiukas: I have bought the game
14:50<Pinchiukas>I'd think they would want a lot more money than a fundraiser could raise
14:50<@Belugas>LordAzamath, a million might not be enough i fear
14:50-!-Frostregen_ [] has joined #openttd
14:50<Pinchiukas>though I'm not an expert in those matters :)
14:50<ln>LordAzamath: first one would have to find out who owns the copyright.
14:50<LordAzamath>Well.. yes
14:51<@peter1138>CS's agency say they do.
14:51<+glx>atari doesn't know :)
14:51<SmatZ>Pinchiukas: nobody says you have to get TTD in an illegal way - everytime somebody asks where to download TTD, devs (and everyone else here) say to buy it
14:51<Pinchiukas>is it even possible to buy it now?
14:51<+glx>on ebay
14:52<LordAzamath>but it's so old game.. Maybe the owners would be so kind to "sell" the rights for a symbolic 1 EUR or something :P
14:52<LordAzamath>just for freewill
14:52<SmatZ>LordAzamath: I doubt :)
14:52<LordAzamath>why not
14:52<Ammller>SmatZ: you should give him that link:
14:53<SmatZ>Ammller: well, I am not happy this thread is at tt-forums
14:53<LordAzamath>it doesn't bring in any money to anybody even right now..
14:53<+glx>SmatZ: tt-forums is not ottd forum
14:54<SmatZ>glx: yes, at least :) but it stil can be connected with OTTD, and theoretically it could be used against OTTD (like owen is an OTTD dev, tt-forums are the most known forum about OTTD, many OTTD devs are speaking there, etc)
14:54<Ammller>I couldn't play ottd without that thread or simular at
14:55<Ammller>lost my floppies long time ago
14:55*peter1138 pats his trusty CD
14:55<@peter1138>Let's add a CD check...
14:56<Ammller>online activation :P
14:56-!-Frostregen [SADDAM@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:56-!-Frostregen_ is now known as Frostregen
14:56<SmatZ>yeah, distribute OTTD with SecuRom or similiar soft :-x
14:57<SmatZ>running on all platforms...
14:57<hylje>get some bored hacker do elaborate activation stuff
14:59-!-UnderBuilder [~chatzilla@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:02<LordAzamath>I still think tha.... Well.. stupid thought
15:03<@Belugas>therefor yiu still are
15:03<@Belugas>that's good :D
15:05<LordAzamath>I still am what?
15:06<Gonozal_VIII>cogito ergo sum
15:06<@Belugas>"i think, therefor I Am"...
15:06*Belugas nods
15:07<LordAzamath>/leave pff
15:07<@Belugas>but i was avoiding the latin text, as it wold have confused LordAzamath even more...
15:07<Gonozal_VIII>i never learned latin but that's the kind of stuff you just know
15:08-!-yorick [] has joined #openttd
15:08-!-ksh [] has joined #openttd
15:08<yorick>Celestar, have you looked into the language flags?
15:08<LordAzamath>helllo yorick
15:08<@orudge>SmatZ / Ammler / whoever: as long as no official OpenTTD devs give out those links and suggest they be used with OpenTTD, I don't see it's too much of a problem
15:08<yorick>hello :p
15:09-!-Tekky_ [] has joined #openttd
15:09-!-Tekky_ [] has quit []
15:09<@orudge>although you may argue it's dubious
15:09<@orudge>well, yes
15:09<@orudge>but if not, we'd just get way too many threads asking where to get TTD
15:09<LordAzamath>orudge: But aren't you also a dev..? :P
15:09<yorick>he was
15:09<@orudge>I am
15:09<@orudge>I'm just semi-inactive
15:10<@orudge>I do have that new sound engine patch to finish up
15:10<@orudge>but it's not likely to be 0.6 anyway
15:10<@orudge>as it'd be a fairly major change
15:10<yorick>he retired, but unretired some time ago
15:10<yorick>not to make any commits after that
15:10<@orudge>not true
15:10<@orudge>but my commits tend to be minor in nature :p
15:10<@orudge>eg, related to OS/2
15:11<@orudge>I'm still active in that I maintain the forums and the donations and all that sort of stuff
15:11<@orudge>[19:09:30] <LordAzamath> orudge: But aren't you also a dev..? :P <-- yes, but I haven't said "oh use these downloads WITH OpenTTD"
15:11<@orudge>I just link to them...
15:11<@orudge>which isn't quite the same
15:11<@orudge>anyway, it's all a bit dubious, but I can't see there's much of a way around it
15:12<@peter1138>I'm so proud :o
15:13<hylje>what, no top gun, i teh lied
15:13<hylje>top gear rather.
15:14-!-Tekky [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:14<@orudge>hmm, Top Gun meets Top GEar
15:14<@orudge>that could be interesting
15:14<Ammller>another link for downloading ttdx:
15:14-!-UserErr0r [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:14<@peter1138>We should release RC1.
15:14<@peter1138>Then we're bound to get another dozen bug reports for beta5...
15:15<@peter1138>Ammller, nobody cares.
15:15<@orudge>Ammler: was set up mainly because I got literally hundreds of people asking for it on my site
15:15<SmatZ>hylje: I do not like it when people hurt things :-x
15:15<@orudge>if Chris Sawyer/whoever would just rerelase TTD
15:15<@orudge>it would probably make them back a bit
15:15<@orudge>of course
15:15<@orudge>that could then bring OpenTTD into further murky waters
15:15<@orudge>but oh well
15:18<Ammller>the only thing he could do is sponsoring ottd...
15:18<LordAzamath>hmm... But what does Chris Sawyer think of (Open)TTD(Patch)?
15:18<@orudge>He doesn't like either of them
15:18<@orudge>he likes his games they way he makes them
15:18<@orudge>he doesn't like people modifying them
15:18<@orudge>or messing with his "artistic vision" and so on
15:18<LordAzamath>hmm.. Could learn from Valve :P
15:18<Ammller>LordAzamath: same as some GRF Maker do too...
15:19<LordAzamath>Ammller: Michael Blunck?
15:19<Ammller>buhh, dunno, if he don't like it
15:19<LordAzamath>well then, who?
15:19<Ammller>but some other guys has in the licence that you should not change nfo
15:20<LordAzamath>even fo your own use?
15:20<LordAzamath>well... he'll never know..
15:21*LordAzamath considers licencing all his work so far with no-use licence :P. That means that you are not allowed to use them.
15:21<Ammller>yup, has nothing to do with legality, but respect
15:21<LordAzamath>but you are allowed to download them though
15:22<yorick>LordAzamath: which means that the whole opengrf project is not very open anymore
15:22<LordAzamath>It's not my work
15:22<LordAzamath>I only started discussion and update (sometimes) first two posts
15:23<yorick>and the tropical bank?
15:23<yorick>the flags?
15:23-!-stillunk1own [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:23<LordAzamath>gahh.. I've done too many things to now deny them :P
15:24<LordAzamath>so use them as you like as long as you won't say that you made them :P
15:24<LordAzamath>And that's usually my whole licence
15:24<Ammller>hmm, did you also public the source?
15:24<LordAzamath>Ammller: Well.. no
15:24<yorick>@base 16 10 24
15:24<@DorpsGek>yorick: 36
15:25<Ammller>so its closed, but free
15:25<LordAzamath>I don't have most of commented nfos myself
15:25<yorick>stupid...I only remember the hex values now XD
15:25<LordAzamath>I *could* release uncommented nfos though :P
15:25<LordAzamath>as a source
15:25<ln>DorpsGek: are you as smart as Bjarni?
15:26<yorick>try chatting with another bot, The_Master for example
15:26<Pinchiukas>so Chris Sawyer is the author of all these tycoon games?
15:26<yorick>[20:26] <@yorick> The_Master, are you as smart as Bjarni?
15:26<yorick>[20:26] <@The_Master> yorick: I know.
15:26<ln>what "all these tycoon games"?
15:26<yorick>rollercoaster, transport
15:27<Patrick`>transport, railroad, rollercoaster
15:27<Pinchiukas>locomotion, transport tycoon
15:27<yorick>locomotion aswell
15:27<ln>then the answer must be Chris Sawyer is the author of some of them.
15:27<Patrick`>him and sid meier basically had a thing going where they'd hang out and swap game ideas
15:27<Patrick`>and DNA.
15:27<yorick>Chris Sawyes is a company, not a person name ;)
15:27<Patrick`>also: I'd take it in the ass for spore.
15:28<Patrick`>scuse me, someone has control of my terminal
15:28*LordAzamath knows no Sawyes company :o
15:28<yorick>NETWORK_NUM_LANGUAGES = 36 <-- shouldn't this be changed in the masterserver_updater aswell?
15:28-!-KritiK [] has joined #openttd
15:28<LordAzamath>If you ask it, it probably should
15:29<Pinchiukas>so how does multiplayer in openttd work?
15:29<LordAzamath>you join a server and play
15:29<yorick>and have chat, see others actions
15:29<LordAzamath>against other opponents
15:29<LordAzamath>and get addicted
15:30<yorick>can play in the same companies and agains other
15:30<Pinchiukas>I can connect my railroads to my opponents?
15:30<yorick>not (yet)
15:30*Pinchiukas has only played some railroad tycool 2 :)
15:30<yorick>a patch for doing that has been made, but is not in the trunk
15:30<Pinchiukas>I see
15:30<Pinchiukas>for some reason the game seems pretty popular :)
15:31<@Belugas>not for "some"
15:31<yorick>for the technical details about MP, there is an (outdated) wiki page
15:31<@Belugas>for GOOD
15:31<Pinchiukas>like what? :)
15:32<@Belugas>'cause it's good, and it looks good, and it plays good, and it's good'ly coded, and it's good to watch, and it has all those good new features...
15:32<@Belugas>FEATURES !!!!
15:33<@orudge>Belugas has gone all weird!
15:33*orudge calls for a man in a white coat
15:33<Patrick`>I always read him as beluga
15:34<Patrick`>as in the ship from BGE
15:34<Pinchiukas>"looks good"? :/
15:36<@Belugas>weird? me? naaaaaa...
15:37<@Belugas>[15:34] <Pinchiukas> "looks good"? :/ <--- right... i should have said TASTES good instead :S
15:39<Pinchiukas>ok, off to watch some google tech talks :P
15:41<yorick>if (info->server_lang >= NETWORK_NUM_LANGUAGES) info->server_lang = 0;, so I've done NETWORK_NUM_LANGUAGES = 36,
15:41<yorick>but it still fails to work
15:45<yorick>the GetCurrentIsoCode should be removed
15:45<yorick>but bugfixing comes first
15:47<@Belugas>ho... my eyes hurts...
15:47-!-Pinchiukas [~lox@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:47*yorick is proud of hurting eyes, because his eyes got hurt with that toyland
15:47<@Belugas>iso_codes is not aligned
15:48-!-Draakon [] has joined #openttd
15:48<@Belugas>-> // Draw flags ->> /* Draw flags */
15:48<yorick>that was a copy-paste
15:48<@Belugas>+VARDEF uint8 _network_current_networklang; // The current language for the network to be shown in the client list
15:48<@Belugas>should be ///<
15:48<@Belugas>that was not an excuse
15:49<@Belugas>+/* Send the changed language over the network */
15:49<@Belugas>should be
15:49<@Belugas>+/** Send the changed language over the network */
15:49-!-helb [~helb@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:49-!-helb [~helb@] has joined #openttd
15:49<@Belugas>const char *GetCurrentIsoCode() should be documented
15:50<yorick>as I said, it should be removed
15:50*Belugas nods
15:50<ln>Belugas: and the documentation would be approximately "returns the current iso code"?
15:50<yorick>[20:45] <yorick> the GetCurrentIsoCode should be removed
15:50<yorick>[20:45] <yorick> but bugfixing comes first
15:50<yorick>true ^^
15:50<ln>why should it be removed?
15:50<yorick>because it's not used anymore
15:51<yorick>I replaced it by the grf_isocode table
15:51<@Belugas>i say, whatever you propose so someone else, add comments for the others not to spend time guessing
15:51<@Belugas>i say
15:51<yorick>and I say, I just say that that function was still in there, and it should be removed
15:52<yorick>but well, when was the previous flag-adding commit
15:52-!-UserError [] has joined #openttd
15:52<yorick>as I can't find it
15:52-!-LordAzamath [] has left #openttd [Kopete 0.12.5 :]
15:54<yorick>as I can't find it out with svn log, because someone *cough* split network.h
15:55<@peter1138>Splitting a file does not remove history.
15:55<yorick>I found out
15:57<@Belugas>svn blame is really usefull too...
16:02<yorick>@calc 36-29
16:02<@DorpsGek>yorick: 7
16:02<yorick>7 :o
16:02<yorick>is me sure?
16:03<Draakon>@seen dih*
16:03<@DorpsGek>Draakon: dih* could be dih (1 hour, 28 minutes, and 59 seconds ago), dih_ (3 weeks, 3 days, 2 hours, 4 minutes, and 56 seconds ago), dihedral (8 weeks, 3 days, 4 hours, 50 minutes, and 47 seconds ago), dihedral_ (17 weeks, 2 days, 0 hours, 14 minutes, and 2 seconds ago), dihedral|work (19 weeks, 2 days, 10 hours, 54 minutes, and 37 seconds ago), dihedral|lunch (19 weeks, 3 days, 8 hours, 11 minutes, and 44 seconds (1 more message)
16:03<@Bjarni>(36+1)-(29+1) = 37 - 30 = 7
16:03*yorick thought he only added 6 sprites
16:03<@DorpsGek>yorick: Error: You haven't asked me a command; perhaps you want to see someone else's more. To do so, call this command with that person's nick.
16:03<yorick>@more Draakon
16:03<@DorpsGek>yorick: ago), dihedral|afk (19 weeks, 5 days, 1 hour, 59 minutes, and 52 seconds ago), dihedral|away (20 weeks, 0 days, 14 hours, 33 minutes, and 38 seconds ago), dihedral|bad_mistake_hunting (25 weeks, 0 days, 2 hours, 37 minutes, and 40 seconds ago), or dihedral|laptop (37 weeks, 1 day, 2 hours, 5 minutes, and 22 seconds ago)
16:04<yorick>dih* has many kinds
16:04<yorick>@seen Yorick*
16:04<@DorpsGek>yorick: Yorick* could be yorick (4 seconds ago), yorickSatan (6 days, 4 hours, 44 minutes, and 42 seconds ago), Yorick|AFK (1 week, 1 day, 1 hour, 44 minutes, and 50 seconds ago), or Yorick[1] (7 weeks, 5 days, 4 hours, 6 minutes, and 25 seconds ago)
16:04<Draakon>yoricksatan xD
16:04<yorick>that wasn't me
16:05<@Bjarni>it was your evil twin
16:05<@Bjarni>but we can't tell the difference
16:05<@Bjarni>so who knows who we end up burning
16:05<Draakon>let me test something
16:05<Draakon>@seen yorick
16:05<@DorpsGek>Draakon: yorick was last seen in #openttd 58 seconds ago: <yorick> that wasn't me
16:07<Draakon>@seen me
16:07<@DorpsGek>Draakon: I have not seen me.
16:07<yorick>@seen openttd
16:07<@DorpsGek>yorick: I have not seen openttd.
16:07<yorick>there was someone called that way
16:07<Draakon>@seen dropsgek
16:07<@DorpsGek>Draakon: I have not seen dropsgek.
16:09<ln>is it currently possible add a new feature to OTTD without rewriting half of the game?
16:10<ln>yorick: you are not qualified to answer.
16:10<yorick>yes, thanks
16:11<@Bjarni>ln: that depends on what feature you want but generally yes
16:12<ln>is it possible to e.g. attach a 4-byte integer to each tile without breaking everything?
16:12<ln>err.. 4-bit i meant.
16:13<yorick>but why do you want such a thing?
16:13<ln>22:10 < ln> yorick: you are not qualified to answer.
16:13<yorick>bytes enough on the map array ^^
16:13<Patrick`>it'll break saves, it'll break networks and everything
16:13<Patrick`>but as a branch it'll survive.
16:13<@Bjarni>ln: that's not even hard but why? :)
16:13<Patrick`>I guess to add more map info per tile
16:14<Patrick`>like, say, for heterogenous diagonal rails
16:14<ln>yorick: i want a public telephone box on each tile, and a telephone needs a number.
16:14<@Bjarni>but what should be stored
16:14<+glx>Patrick`: there are enough free bits for that
16:14<@Belugas>4 bits ??
16:14<@Belugas>8 i would understand, but 4...
16:15<yorick>0-16 ?!
16:15<@Bjarni>ln: seriously what are you trying to store?
16:15<+glx>ln: use the TileIndex ;)
16:15<dih>Whatsup ladies?
16:15<ln>Bjarni: ah, you haven't been here any of the times when i've said: "how about introducing the concept of countries into OTTD".
16:15<yorick>hello dih
16:16<@Bjarni>not your language skills :P
16:16<ln>(that was a hint)
16:16<Draakon>dih: when did you come online?
16:16<Draakon>forgot one thing'
16:16<yorick>loong time ago
16:16<Draakon>hello dih
16:16<dih>look at my whois?
16:16<yorick>not in there ;)
16:16<@Bjarni>ln: ahh.... I didn't know that you would actually do it. Besides I have been really busy lately
16:17<dih>yorick: tis
16:17<dih>[21:16] * [dih] idle 00:00:42, signon: Tue Mar 11 20:35:19
16:17<yorick>I stilll don't know where the whole countries is about
16:17<dih>say that again
16:17<yorick>only for self ;)
16:17<ln>Bjarni: i'm gathering information to be able to decide whether it's doable without an insane amount of work.
16:17<Patrick`>now, I remember when bigmaps were first introduced
16:17<dih>how about /msg info dih
16:18<@Belugas>ln, sorry, but... phone box is one thing, but countries? should not be requiring bits on the map
16:18<Patrick`>and at one point the max map size was 4096 square
16:18<@Bjarni>would 4 bits be enough?
16:18<yorick>info no such nick/channel
16:18<@Bjarni>imagine the Europe map
16:18<yorick>16 countries
16:18<Patrick`>so I propose that the map size should not be limited to 2048 in each direction, but instead limited to 2048 ** 2 tiles
16:18<dih>yorick: looser ^^
16:18<Patrick`>so you could have an 8192 x 512 map :)
16:18<ln>Belugas: well yes, countries could be stored to some other structure.
16:18<@Belugas>proposal rejected
16:18<Patrick`>aww :(
16:18<@Belugas>indeed ln,
16:18<Patrick`>it'd be trivial to code though
16:19<Patrick`>to the branchmobile!
16:19<@Bjarni><yorick> 16 countries <-- I know what 2^4 is but the question is if it's enough
16:19<@Belugas>it's the only sane way to go, i think
16:19<@Belugas>but, to be honest, i don't like at all the whole country idea
16:19<ln>22:18 <@Bjarni> imagine the Europe map <-- "i thought Europe is a country!"
16:19<yorick>me neither
16:20<Draakon>Europe is a part of the world
16:20<yorick>a very cooperative one
16:20<@Belugas>if ever the map should be divided, it wold make way more sens to have geological regions, or economical ones
16:20<yorick>we wouldn't be here speaking english otherwise ^^
16:20<Draakon>we would
16:21<@Bjarni>ln: <-- you are thinking of this one, right?
16:21*Belugas puts on ignore list both draakon and yorick
16:21-!-Zaviori [] has joined #openttd
16:21<ln>btw, btw, it's still not technically possible to have all three types of climates in one map?
16:21<Draakon>why Belugas?
16:21<ln>Bjarni: exactly that one.
16:21<yorick>I don't believe him
16:21<@Belugas>as i explained earlier, yes it can be done, but to a big extend
16:22<@Belugas>lot of work, in fact
16:22<@Belugas>if it has to be done properly
16:22<ln>(are you answering to me?)
16:23<@Belugas>as the others who might have slipped usual non sens comments are now on ignore
16:23*Draakon ignores everyonre
16:23<ln>it's just that all climates on one map would make sense.
16:23*Belugas does not agree
16:23<yorick>does your igore list work with hostmasks?
16:24<yorick>no, Belugas's
16:24<ln>Belugas: why not?
16:24<@Belugas>the thing is, it might make sens visually on big maps, but as the map size is getting smaller, it will look silly for once
16:25<@Belugas>second, the chain of production as it is will be useless
16:25-!-paulsen [~paulsen@] has quit []
16:25<Draakon>you only add tiles
16:25<@Belugas>since all industries are connected in their own world
16:25<yorick> finally works!
16:25<@Belugas>if i may say so
16:25<ln>ok, there could be some minimum distance between climates, so many wouldn't fit on a small map.
16:25<Draakon>yorick: What? where who?
16:25*Belugas nods
16:25*yorick can see the South-African flag on the server-list!
16:26<@Belugas>but technically, it wold be a huge task
16:26<dih>join it
16:26<Draakon>picture or this dint happen
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16:27<dih>i have seen that before Gozy
16:27<Gonozal_VIII>yes, i posted it here before...
16:28<Gonozal_VIII>but since the climate on same map topic came up
16:28-!-Draakon [] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.79 [Firefox]]
16:28<ln>i just noticed my working copy of openttd has my previous attempt to introduce a new symbol into station signs, the tram stop.
16:28<dih>get yourself a highlight for gozy
16:28<dih>think i might stick to that
16:28<Gonozal_VIII>i don't think so polly :P
16:28-!-stillunknown [] has joined #openttd
16:29<yorick>nathanael, it was?
16:29<dih>well done for looking up a whois on a domain name
16:30<yorick>actually, I remembered
16:30<dih>that img host sucks
16:30<Gonozal_VIII>what img host?
16:31<yorick> I can blame myself for clicking cancel on a screenshot and trying to fix a bug because it freezed ^^
16:31-!-Zaviori [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:31<Gonozal_VIII>ah... i ignored that link since it came from yorick
16:31<yorick>but its a good one
16:31<Gonozal_VIII>i figured it would just be the same flag stuff again
16:32-!-Pinchiukas [~lox@] has joined #openttd
16:32<yorick>its another flag stuff ^^
16:32<dih>but actually for a 13 year old yorick is not doing bad, in regards to at least writing his own little patches
16:32<yorick>LordAzamath was nice enough to draw me some flags
16:33<dih>LA does a lot of stuff if you ask him kindly :-)
16:33<dih>he made me a flag too
16:33<Gonozal_VIII>afrikaans... where is that spoken? africa has plenty of languages...
16:33<dih>beautiful language
16:34<yorick>it is a mix of english and 18th-century dutch
16:35<Gonozal_VIII>and dutch is a mix of german and english...
16:35<yorick>no its not
16:36<Gonozal_VIII>german dialect then?
16:39<ln>danish dialect?
16:40-!-TheJosh [] has joined #openttd
16:41<TheJosh>good morning everyone long time no see
16:41<yorick>good evening TheJosh never no nee
16:42<dih>you blind?
16:42<yorick>I don't look at the client list
16:43<TheJosh>I havent been around for a while, and im back
16:43-!-yorick [] has quit [Quit: And I go]
16:43<TheJosh>quick question, is the trunk going to be frozen any time soon?
16:44<Gonozal_VIII>why would that happen?
16:44<ln>where are the tiles drawn?
16:44<@Belugas>it is frozen (feature wise) as we speak,
16:44<@Belugas>but would not be for long
16:45-!-TinoM [] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
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16:45<TheJosh>ok. so when will it be de-frozen? basically to get to the point, i would like to rewrite shares, and I would do it in a number of patches, with the first being a new GUI seperate from the company details GUI
16:46-!-roadfish [] has joined #openttd
16:47<dih>then write it
16:48<TheJosh>duh but if the trunk is feature frozen then it wont get in for ages
16:48<roadfish>at talk:Village Pump, I read about a "Offline Wiki" that can be downloaded ... where is download located?
16:48<dih>that is a completetly different thing
16:48<dih>you writing a patch and it getting in to trunk are separate things
16:48<@Belugas>trunk is frozen 'cause of release of 0.6
16:48<@Belugas>it's going to be unfrozen after ward
16:49<@Belugas>release is imminent
16:49<TheJosh>i know
16:50<TheJosh>so theres no point me writing a patch until its defrozen
16:50<TheJosh>or i will be waiting for ages to get it in
16:50<@Belugas>well.. you would be pretty fast...
16:50<dih>thejosh - wrong approatch
16:50<TheJosh>ok ill write now
16:50<@Belugas>writing a patch and getting it into trunk are totally not related in anyways
16:50<roadfish>#join /wiki
16:50<dih>at least then you also have time to introduce it on the forums and get feedback :-)
16:51<TheJosh>good point
16:51<dih>remember bugs
16:51<dih>they are never intended, but always present
16:51<@peter1138>Except rivers ;)
16:52<dih>rivers are not always present ^^
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16:52<TheJosh>So is a new shares system a desirable feature?
16:53<dih>what you want to achieve?
16:53<@Belugas>objectives? why is it required? What was the problems with the old one?
16:53<@Belugas>who required it?
16:53<TheJosh>1. New GUI - a seperate window listing all the companies and how much of the actual company they own
16:53<@peter1138>Well the shares cheat is a good reason to revamp it ;)
16:54<TheJosh>2. Shares not stored as percentages but as numbers (20,000 total per company for example)
16:54<@peter1138>But these things need stating...
16:54<TheJosh>3. Proper calculation of the share price
16:54<TheJosh>they are the patches
16:54<TheJosh>the reason - because of the cheat basically
16:54<TheJosh>and theres a feature request for better shares
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16:55<@peter1138>Who owns the shares by default?
16:55<TheJosh>100% owned by the company itself to begin with
16:56<@peter1138>The current method makes no sense there...
16:56<TheJosh>the first patch will be just the gui. the specifics of how shares will work will come in the later patches
16:56<@peter1138>I'm for it as long as it still remains simple.
16:56<@peter1138>Oh, and maybe toggleable.
16:56-!-roadfish [] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.1.4 (IRC client for Emacs)]
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16:56<TheJosh>i may even leave the buy-by-percentage and just have good share price calculations
16:57<@peter1138>Well the old system is already turn on-and-off-able.
16:57<@Belugas>1. New GUI - a seperate window listing all the companies and how much of the actual company they own <--- i'm a bit confused
16:57<@peter1138>I don't think it needs a new GUI. Just extend the existing bit.
16:58*peter1138 "accidentally" opens a b eer.
16:58<@Belugas>a list of all the companies, and with the amount of shares the current company has in each of them?
16:58<@Belugas>hoooo... beer
16:58<TheJosh>currently is says on the company details page, 25% owned by ...
16:58<TheJosh>and it will show upto 2 companies, when in fact 3 can own 25% each - thats a bug
16:59<TheJosh>instead there needs to be a full list of all the owners of a company - so the company details window needs to be bigger, or just a new 'ownership details' window
16:59<TheJosh>listing all the owners of a company, and how much they own
17:00<Noldo>btw what is the point of owning part of a company?
17:00<@peter1138>TheJosh, simple enough to make it dynamically sized now, so each owner adds a new line.
17:00<@peter1138>That would keep it simple but able to show enough info.
17:00<@peter1138>(And adding a new GUI always makes patches massive)
17:02<@peter1138>Hmm, maybe I'm getting too technical already ;)
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17:02<TheJosh>ok you make a good point
17:02<@peter1138>Noldo, if it's done properly, you should be able to get a share of the profits.
17:03<TheJosh>currently its just a way to cheat basically
17:03<@peter1138>So the question is, why sell off any of your company if you may lose profits?
17:03<@peter1138>(Maybe you need the up-front cash?)
17:04<Noldo>that would be the reason why real companies do it
17:04<Noldo>to get capital
17:04<Noldo>it's basically just another kind of loan
17:05<@peter1138>Currently the first company able to buys up 75% of the other companies.
17:05<Gonozal_VIII>i don't think dividends should be paid
17:05<@peter1138>But then they never sell because the other companies either go bust (and the purchaser's lost $2) or continue making profit and there's no real point in selling...
17:06<@peter1138>Gonozal_VIII, what other incentives are there?
17:06<Gonozal_VIII>value increase
17:06<Noldo>somewhat irrelevat to the concrete gameplay
17:06<Noldo>+n somewhere
17:07<TheJosh>it should be done well or removed I think
17:07<TheJosh>kinda pointless and switched off on tons of servers now
17:07<@Belugas>And would the real cash in hand be used as a measure? or would it be the money plus the assets?
17:07-!-peter1138 is now known as not_peter1138
17:08<Gonozal_VIII>could create a loop
17:08<@Belugas>not not makes it true
17:09<Noldo>I wish I knew these accounting terms in english
17:09-!-not_peter1138 is now known as peter1138
17:10<Gonozal_VIII>calculating of company values including shares should be possible with equations
17:10-!-Zaviori [] has joined #openttd
17:10<Gonozal_VIII>without creating a loop
17:10<TheJosh>share price is more than just company value.
17:10<@peter1138>current system is silly as you don't own your own company
17:10<Noldo>yes, but it has some quite interesting effets
17:10<Noldo>peter1138: but who is you?
17:10<hylje>i prefer AC
17:11<@peter1138>Noldo: as a 'client' of the 'company' you get full control, therefore you are acting on behalf of the mysterious 'owner'
17:11<Gonozal_VIII>you should definitely get the money if somebody buys your shares
17:11<TheJosh>share price is what someone is willing to pay for your company. doing it that detailed would be too complicated, so you would probably make share price = total value of assets / number of shares in existance
17:12<Noldo>peter1138: similar to railroad tycoon II ?
17:12<@peter1138>Noldo: never played it beyond building a train.
17:12<Gonozal_VIII>peter, you start with zero capital only loan, so you are the owner
17:14<@peter1138>So basically we're saying that TheJosh should just get on with it? ;)
17:15<Noldo>I'm not convinced that the shares add anything to the game, if you don't count the buyout option
17:15-!-Pinchiukas [~lox@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:15<@Belugas>well... there has been a lot of talks on badly current system is... so if anyone is willing to work on it, it wold be very intersting to look at the work that willbe done
17:15<@Belugas>i'd say yes
17:15<TheJosh>"i'd say yes" - yes to what?
17:16<@Belugas>[17:14] <@peter1138> So basically we're saying that TheJosh should just get on with it? ;)
17:17*Belugas is tired
17:17-!-divo [] has joined #openttd
17:17*Belugas goes to home
17:17-!-Zavior [] has quit [Ping timeout: 481 seconds]
17:17<@Belugas>night all
17:17<TheJosh>once i get my newly-installed debian system setup for development I will start
17:17<@peter1138>Noldo: subsidaries and buyouts! in MP games!
17:18-!-divoafx [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:18<TheJosh>i had to wipe because of a hdd crash and now i have forgotten how to get gcc to work :(
17:19<Tefad>"gcc" done?
17:19<Tefad>: x
17:19<TheJosh>i think i have found the package I need
17:19<@peter1138>libsdl1.2-dev (or similar)
17:19<TheJosh>nah ive got that. i just didnt have the right version of gcc
17:20<Noldo>in case of buyout, what happens to the player that used to controll the company?
17:21<TheJosh>i havent thought any of this through. Im gonna go the GUI thing first - and that can be counted as a bugfix
17:21<@peter1138>1) it has to be agreed, no forced buyouts
17:21<TheJosh>i agree
17:21<@peter1138>2) player could just be switched to the buying company, or become a spectator.
17:21<TheJosh>window popup: <player> has requested to buy you out
17:22<Noldo>so no hostile takeovers then ;)
17:23<dih>how a bout a lend money system
17:25<Eddi|zuHause3> <ln> Bjarni: ah, you haven't been here any of the times when i've said: "how about introducing the concept of countries into OTTD". <- but why do you want to store country in the map? wouldn't it make more sense to e.g. group some towns into a country, and then decide "country authority" by nearest town authority?
17:25-!-Zaviori [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:26<TheJosh>does anyone here run debian because i cannot get openttd to configure
17:27<TheJosh>ive installed 'gcc', 'gcc-3.4', 'gcc-4.1' and 'g++-3.4'
17:27<@peter1138>What does it say? heh
17:27<TheJosh>checking build c++... g++ not found
17:27<TheJosh>I couldn't detect any g++ binary on your system
17:27<TheJosh>please define the CC/CXX environment to where it is located
17:27<@peter1138>Get rid of 3.4, install g++-4.1
17:27<TheJosh>there inst one
17:27<@peter1138>also make sure libc6-dev is installed.
17:28-!-dR3x4cK [] has quit [Quit: dR3x4cK]
17:29<TheJosh>i found g++-4.1 sweet
17:29<@peter1138>Oh, are you using a gui to install packages? Heh
17:29-!-Gonozal_VIII [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:30<TheJosh>on all my srevers i use command-line, but for my personal computer I just cannot be bothered
17:31<TheJosh>although i still use the command-line a fair bit more than average
17:31<@peter1138>I just find aptitude/synaptic way slower to use than apt.
17:33-!-divo [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:33<TheJosh>your a debian user?
17:34<@peter1138>On servers, Ubuntu on my desktop.
17:34<TheJosh>gentoo on my servers, debian on the desktop
17:34<hylje>(desktop debian sucks implied)
17:35<TheJosh>and a slackware server at my church
17:35<@peter1138>Gentoo... on servers... :o
17:35<TheJosh>its tweakable
17:35<@peter1138>My servers get installed, set up, and left.
17:35<TheJosh>its only my one server so i really dont care
17:36<TheJosh>i should say this. debian on my box, gentoo on my server, and slack on the server at my church
17:36<@peter1138>Well, nice bit of variety, heh
17:36<TheJosh>slack uptime = 310 days :)
17:36<@peter1138>Not much then.
17:37<TheJosh>im happy with it
17:37<TheJosh>for what it is
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17:51<@Bjarni><EddizuHause3> <ln> Bjarni: ah, you haven't been here any of the times when i've said: "how about introducing the concept of countries into OTTD". <- but why do you want to store country in the map? wouldn't it make more sense to e.g. group some towns into a country, and then decide "country authority" by nearest town authority? <-- that depends on how often this info is needed and hence how fast we need to be able to read this i
17:51<@peter1138>Are you unable to write replies without quoting the whole line?
17:52<Eddi|zuHause3>i quoted the line because it was written an hour ago
17:53-!-HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@] has joined #openttd
17:54<@peter1138>You didn't over-quote ;)
17:54-!-Tekky [] has joined #openttd
17:55<@peter1138>Hmm, drive-through road stops do need improving.
17:56-!-Nitehawk [] has joined #openttd
17:56<@Bjarni>it's not like I interrupted anything
17:57-!-josch [] has joined #openttd
17:57<josch>woohooo!! openttd!!!!
17:57<josch>hello there!
17:57<Wolf01>no, wrong chat, bye
17:57<josch>is there a way to support the project by buying the official transport tycoon from you?
17:58<Wolf01>no, but you can always donate
17:58<TheJosh>hey i just realised one of my patches was partially applied
17:58<josch>i have to buy ttd - is there a preferred webshop for this?
17:59<TheJosh>a fix that would show the owners of a company properly
17:59<Wolf01>I should do it, I promised, but I still don't have the prepaid card to be able to purchase via internet :/
17:59<ln>josch: try
17:59<Wolf01>josch, ebay, or if you are lucky, a local store warestock... or some sites
17:59<josch>okay - so the usual way...
18:00<Wolf01>or simply download it
18:00<josch>well I thought that maybe you guys have something like: buy here and we get something from your payment
18:00<josch>lol download? isn't ttd still illegal to download?
18:01-!-Zr40_ [] has joined #openttd
18:01<Prof_Frink>the first rule of ttd-downloaders club...
18:02<josch>never tell anyone about the ttd-downloaders club?
18:03<Prof_Frink>The second rule of Robot Club is: You do not talk about- no wait, I got that wrong.
18:03<Prof_Frink>The second rule is "No Smoking."
18:04<@peter1138># What do you do? What do you do, in the bath?
18:07<josch>hrm... to whom should I donate my last euros on paypal? wikipedia or openttd?
18:08-!-Zr40 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:14<Prof_Frink>josch: The Prof_Frink Beer Fund
18:14<josch>i have to meditate about this decision...
18:22-!-Munchlax [] has joined #openttd
18:22<Munchlax>hi people
18:23<Patrick`>there's a ship called the pearl necklace
18:23<@Bjarni>this channel is mine
18:23<@Bjarni>so it's my people
18:23<@Bjarni>you shouldn't try to steal them >_<
18:24<@peter1138>Have we been announced somewhere? Seems quite an influx this evening...
18:24<@Bjarni>good question
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18:25-!-Munchlax [] has quit []
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18:26<@Bjarni>hi Munchlax
18:26<@Bjarni>haven't I seen you before?
18:26<@Bjarni>you sound familiar somehow
18:26-!-jm [~jm@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
18:27<Munchlax>this is my first time comming to this server and this channel
18:27<@Bjarni>technically it's your 2nd time right now :P
18:27<Munchlax>i was on with my ipod..
18:27<@Bjarni>you got IRC on your iPod???
18:28<Eddi|zuHause3>your ipod runs as root?
18:28<Munchlax>there is openttd on ipod
18:28<@Bjarni>oh right
18:28<Munchlax>so thats how I got to know
18:28<@Bjarni>iPod touch
18:28<Munchlax>or you could go on IRC with safari
18:28<@Bjarni>we didn't make that port
18:28<josch>there ist also openttd on neo1973 with openmoko - works great! :-D
18:29<Munchlax>I dont think you guys did
18:29<@Bjarni>but it's based on our source code
18:29<Patrick`>oh, the fork from the forking eejits
18:29<Patrick`>who didn't honour the GPL for like 3 months
18:30<Patrick`>the openttd fork for handhelds
18:30<Patrick`>I just remember this fuss a few years back
18:30<Munchlax>i dont know who it is
18:30<@Bjarni>I'm not sure the iPod touch port is made by those people. I think it's a new person/group who is/are behind it
18:30<@Bjarni>but I'm not sure
18:31<kaan>night all
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18:31<Munchlax>i can play that..
18:31<Munchlax>do I have to take picture of it
18:31<@Bjarni>you can play OpenTTD which is the important part
18:31<Munchlax>i have one
18:32<Munchlax>oww!! I gotta figure out how to play this game!
18:32<Munchlax>it seems fun
18:34<@Bjarni>I once heard this one: "I tried to build a rail line and added a train. When it made income I made a new line and built a new train. That one started to make income too and then I figured that I had tried everything in the game so I ditched it because it wasn't my type of game. Too much of the same stuff over and over"
18:34<@Bjarni>or something like that
18:34<@Bjarni>this is what NOT to say ;)
18:34<Munchlax>i wouldnt say that
18:35<Munchlax>what is this whole purpose of playing this game
18:35<Prof_Frink>killing time
18:35<@Bjarni>it would be like playing Doom and say "now I figured out how to move forward and backwards so I did that a bit and ended up finding it boring so I quitted"
18:35-!-thgergo [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
18:35<Prof_Frink>which it does *very* effectively
18:35<@Bjarni><Munchlax> what is this whole purpose of playing this game <-- to make money
18:36<Prof_Frink>"Hmm, a new line here, some buses here, ooh, it's 2AM"
18:36<SmatZ>to have fun
18:36<Munchlax>I mean..
18:36<Munchlax>i tried stuff on this 'small' ipod
18:36<Munchlax>and I dont know
18:36<Munchlax>how to transport stuff
18:37<@Bjarni>first you switch to a resolution as big as possible because you can see shit on that small display
18:38<@Bjarni>maybe it would be adviceable to start on a real computer so it's easier to read the text and so on
18:38<Munchlax>do you play this online too?
18:38*peter1138 plays at 640x480 :o
18:38*peter1138 is playing 'against' Sacro
18:39<Munchlax>thats cool
18:39<Prof_Frink>peter1138: old school
18:39<Munchlax>is it full screen
18:40<@Bjarni>on a computer it supports both fullscreen and window modes
18:40<Munchlax>and it says
18:40<Munchlax> is missing
18:40<Munchlax>on data folder
18:41<@Bjarni>you have to add that yourself
18:41<@Bjarni>as it's copyrighted
18:41<@Bjarni>we can't distribute that one
18:41-!-Ammlller [] has joined #openttd
18:41<Slowpoke_>but you find it using google ;)
18:42-!-lolman [] has joined #openttd
18:42<@Bjarni>now you summoned lolman
18:43<Eddi|zuHause3><Bjarni> [...] it's a new person/group who is/are behind it <- group is also singular
18:43<Munchlax>like right after i said lol
18:43<Munchlax>he was summoned
18:44<lolman>For I am the great lolman
18:44-!-helb [~helb@] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
18:44<@Bjarni>Eddi|zuHause3: ...
18:44<@Bjarni>time for bed
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18:44<Slowpoke_>TTD is now abandonware?
18:44<Munchlax>i need to find that thing
18:45<@peter1138>No such thing. Move along.
18:45<Eddi|zuHause3>there is no such thing as abandonware
18:45<lolman>Abandonware is a legal grey area
18:45<Eddi|zuHause3>and is in the same location as the trg*.grf
18:45-!-Ammller [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:45<Tekky>yes, I am sure none of us have downloaded TTD from an abandonware site :)
18:45<lolman>Copyright still applies bte there's noone to enforce it
18:47<Eddi|zuHause3>which is not the case with TTD, so stop right there
18:47<Eddi|zuHause3>actually, stop three lines ago
18:47<Slowpoke_>good night
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18:50<Munchlax>I got it worked
18:51<TheJosh>how do you resize a window?
18:51<TheJosh>in code
18:52<TheJosh>or is it easier to just make the window big enough to begin with
18:52<Munchlax>what is the patch for
18:53<TheJosh>better shares
18:53<TheJosh>im going to research the widget docs
18:53<@peter1138>TheJosh: ResizeWindowForWidget()
18:55<SmatZ>night peter1138
18:56<Sacro>someone needs to fix this newgrf issue
18:57<Eddi|zuHause3>*wave hand* this is not the issue that you seek
18:57<Sacro>this is not...
18:57<Sacro>yes it is
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19:19<Ammlller>hmm, orudge didn't change my name, was too less complicated, I fear. :-)
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19:26<@orudge>Ammler: you didn't ask, did you?
19:26<@orudge>or if so, I somehow missed it
19:26<@orudge>feel free to post in said topic
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19:48<SmatZ>hi fjb
19:48<Eddi|zuHause3>"oh noes" ;)
19:48<fjb>Oh, I'm not alone.
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19:53<TheJosh>When I resize a window with ResizeWindowForWidget, it is leaving garbage from where the window was
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19:54<TheJosh>ive tried calling RedrawScreenRect() but thats just segfaulting
19:55<TheJosh>any ideas anyone?
19:55<Eddi|zuHause3>MarkWholeScreenDirty() or something
19:57<TheJosh>sweet. thats not an expensive function is it?
19:58<TheJosh>ah I only call it when the window actually needs resizing so it shouldnt be too bad. Thanks for the help
20:03<Eddi|zuHause3>it is expensive when you call it multiple times per tick, but if you do it only on user input, it should be fine
20:03<Eddi|zuHause3>there are similar functions that mark rectangles dirty
20:05<TheJosh>I think this will be fine. Its only called when the number of owners of a company goes from 2 <-> 3 or 3 <-> 4
20:05<TheJosh>very rare I would think
20:06<Eddi|zuHause3>one suggestion was to have more smaller steps than 25%
20:06<Eddi|zuHause3>like 10% or so
20:06<TheJosh>I wrote a patch for that as well, but i canned it
20:07<TheJosh>The problem was the GUI was bad, so it would only list 3 companies, but at 5% increments, all 8 companies can own some of the company
20:07<TheJosh>Now it lists them all properly and resizes the window. thats the patch I just made
20:08<TheJosh>are you a dev?
20:11-!-NukeBuster|laptop [] has joined #openttd
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20:20<TheJosh>Ok i have made Improved Shares patch 1
20:20-!-stillunknown [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:24<Eddi|zuHause3>oh, and one probably important aspect of shares is that the company has to decide that it actually gives out shares
20:25<TheJosh>all coming later
20:25<TheJosh>but you make a good point. if to give out and how much to give out
20:25<Eddi|zuHause3>and also important that shares don't cost nothing just because the company has loan
20:26<TheJosh>Its going to use an actual share price at some point
20:26<TheJosh>probably based on assets
20:27<TheJosh>im/were gonna think up something funky to prevent share cheating
20:31<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r12367 /trunk/src/network/network_data.cpp: -Fix [FS#1650](r707): commands were sent to clients waiting for map download causing 'executing command from the past' error
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20:35<TheJosh>Patch now in FlySpray
20:39<TheJosh>anyway im going now
20:39<TheJosh>cya round all;
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20:55<Guest1376>is it possible to rotate the map?
20:56<Guest1376>ok, thanks
20:56<Sacro>Guest1376: yes
20:56<Sacro>just times it by i
20:56<Sacro>and it'll rotate by 90 degrees
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20:57<Guest1376>Sacro: what does "times" mean? what to I press?
20:58<Sacro>Guest1376: there's nothing in game you can press
20:58<Sacro>it would need coding
20:58<Sacro>and special physics
20:58<Sacro>and possible an imaginaryInt
20:58<SmatZ>and new sprites
20:59<Guest1376>ah, square root of minus 1
20:59<Guest1376>ok, thanks for the explanation
20:59<Sacro>wow, someone who understood my humour
21:01-!-Guest1376 is now known as roadfish
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21:08<SmatZ>zomg :)
21:10<SmatZ>"This content is .... unavailable"
21:10<SmatZ>I don't understand that one word :-x
21:11<SmatZ>but why
21:14<Sacro>uploading i guess
21:16<roadfish>load me up Scottie
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21:23<TheJosh>me back
21:23<TheJosh>me gone again
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21:24<Patrick`>good to know
21:27-!-dih is now known as anhedral
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21:55<Eddi|zuHause2><Sacro> and possible an imaginaryInt <- it's called a "Gaussian Plane"
21:56<Eddi|zuHause2>Sacro: were you actually able to play this?
21:56<Eddi|zuHause2>the video
21:57<Eddi|zuHause2>i was under the impression the american tv stations would block all non-american IPs from downloading their stuff
21:57<Sacro>it didn't wor
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22:02<Eddi|zuHause2>hm... my capital is already level 4 culture while my other cities are just level 2...
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23:24<TheJosh>hello all peoples
23:30<@Belugas>hey TheJosh
23:31<@Belugas>i saw your patch
23:31<@Belugas>looks very goog
23:31<@Belugas>only tiny problem i saw
23:31<@Belugas>do you have atext editor who can show you tabs and spaces?
23:33-!-glx [] has quit [Quit: bye]
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23:36<@Belugas>if you do, look at it using that feature
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23:36<@Belugas>you'll see that the patch as some rogue tabs, as well as some spaces where there should not be any
23:38<TheJosh>oh i am sorry about the tabs and spaces
23:38<TheJosh>do you want me to use sed to rip them out and then resubmit?
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23:41<TheJosh>ah yes i found it the fourth to last line of the diff. im very dissapointed with myself :(
23:41<@Belugas>heheh just a minor point, really...
23:41<@Belugas>as the rest is very top notch
23:42<TheJosh>ill hack gedit to show me spaces and tabs :)
23:42<@Belugas>thing is, most patchers tend to not look at their patches before submitting them
23:42<@Belugas>for devs, it is a must, since we have this pre-commit hook that rejects work if eveer there is a trailing space
23:43<@Belugas>so, let say been picky on it is normal :D
23:43<TheJosh>sorry that I missed that when i did my pre-submit checks
23:43<@Belugas>even commit mesages have tobe written in accordance to the rules ;)
23:43<@Belugas>no problem, TheJosh. it's normal
23:44<TheJosh>so will that patch get in sometime soon?
23:44<TheJosh>not being pushy of course :P
23:46<@Belugas>of course not, you're not pushy at all ;)
23:47<@Belugas>i think it has some pretty good chances indeed
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23:48<TheJosh>cool thanks
23:48*Belugas searches for examples of contructors overrides
23:51*TheJosh starts hacking gedit
23:53*SpComb learns bash scripting
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23:55*Belugas goes to bed
23:56<@Belugas>night/day/whatever-suits-you all
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---Logclosed Sat Mar 15 00:00:02 2008