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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-03-15

---Logopened Sat Mar 15 00:00:02 2008
---Daychanged Sat Mar 15 2008
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00:03<Eddi|zuHause2>i take the night
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03:09<Pinchiukas>what do you think about simutrans? why are there multiple games anyway?
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03:46<Sionide>market forces...
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04:55<@peter1138>TheJosh: there's already a plugin for gedit to show tabs & spaces.
04:56<TheJosh>i was looking for ages for one because I heard about it and i couldnt find it
04:57<@peter1138>Makes it a bit slow on my PC though.
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04:57<@peter1138>This one is called "Draw Spaces"
04:57<@peter1138>I don't know where it came from though.
04:58<@peter1138>Sacro, Sacro, Sacro!
04:59<hylje>Sacro! NewDrawSpaces!
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05:02<@peter1138>Vim's draw spaces at end of line is more useful, though.
05:03<TheJosh>Devs, i have a page for you
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05:07<TheJosh>someone said I should write what changes I plan of actually making, so that page has planned features and a simple roadmap
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05:13<TheJosh>anyway im off
05:13<TheJosh>good night all
05:13<TheJosh>good night
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05:48<snappy>Hi, is there a way to play openttd in fullscreen?
05:48<snappy>er nevermind -- alt+enter, i cant believe i didnt bother trying that until i joined this channel and asked heh.
05:55<@peter1138>If you can't figure something out, ask a question. You're bound to figure it out 3 seconds later :D
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07:51<jez9999>I have a question
07:52<jez9999>has anyone written a patch that gives you the ability to set trains' service interval to 20 days, then say 'at any junction, if any turn leads to a service depot within 5 squares and it's been 20 days since your last service, take that junction and go to the service depot'
07:52<jez9999>basically i want to have a load of non-mandatory service depots scattered around, then have not all trains going in there, but doing so when they pass one 20 days after their last service
07:53<Frostregen>the only thing which needs to be changed should be the "do i need to service?" check
07:53<Frostregen>beeing called when entering a junction, instead of every day
07:54<Alberth>couldn't you achieve the same effect by building enough depots along the line?
07:54<Gonozal_VIII>i don't think that's good
07:54<Gonozal_VIII>lots of unneeded checks then
07:54<Frostregen>less checks...
07:54<Prof_Frink>jez9999: The potential problem with that is: it may be only five squares *to* the depot, but how many sqaures is it to get back to the mainline in the right direction?
07:54<Gonozal_VIII>once a day is enough
07:55<Frostregen>ok, depends on train speed
07:55<Gonozal_VIII>you have to place your depots right or just use depot orders
07:55<Alberth>Prof_Frink: Isn't that happening now as well?
07:56<jez9999>prof: well i have service stations off the main track, like this:
07:56<jez9999>so getting back on the main track wouldnt be a problem
07:56<jez9999>maybe within 3 squares, i could say
07:56<jez9999>it could be configurable
07:57<Alberth>jez9999: What would happen with trains that never get at that junction?
07:57<jez9999>i'd build enough juntions around the place (i already do) that all trains will pass at least 1
07:57<jez9999>at the moment, they're mandatory
07:58<jez9999>that's slowing things down with a lot of trains on the track
07:58<Gonozal_VIII>that should work with the current system, no need to change
07:58<jez9999>if each train had to go once every 20 days it would improve a lot
07:58<jez9999>how would it work?
07:58<Gonozal_VIII>you can't set service interval to 20... but 30 should be enough
07:59<Gonozal_VIII>with the way you build that there they should automatically choose the next depot
08:00<Frostregen>i would just leave it mandatory, but build it in a way which allows more throughput
08:00<Alberth>could you elaborate on "slowing things down"? Maybe that can be fixed by a different layout
08:00<Gonozal_VIII>yes, the sidetracks should at least be as long as the trains
08:01<jez9999>Gonozal_VIII: the trouble with that is, if the next destination available to them is their next station, i want them to go to that even if they're due their next service
08:01<jez9999>Gonozal_VIII: currently if they are past 30 days they won't go to the station, they'll turn around somewhere and waste time going to a depot
08:01<jez9999>i want them to simply stop at the next station they get to when they're due their service
08:01<Gonozal_VIII>you could give them service at orders for every depot along the line
08:02<jez9999>Frostregen: well yeah but even with that, EVERY train has to slow down and service
08:02<jez9999>the fact that they're having to service maybe too often slows them down
08:02<Gonozal_VIII>not with service at orders
08:02<Frostregen>you want them to service!?
08:03<jez9999>every 20 days or so
08:03<jez9999>but if i have lots of mandatory service depots, some will no doubt service too often
08:03<jez9999>slowing them down
08:03<Gonozal_VIII>use service at orders, change the signal direction on the straight track
08:03<Gonozal_VIII>then everything should work fine
08:04<jez9999>Gonozal_VIII: eh? not really, the train will still service every time round
08:04<jez9999>you don't want to have to specify 'service at' at all
08:04<Gonozal_VIII>they will skip the service at order if they don't need it
08:04<jez9999>just 'every 20 days'
08:04<jez9999>hmm didnt know that
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08:05<jez9999>so what we need is a patch that kind of automatically puts 'service at' orders in
08:05<jez9999>difficult to write i suppose
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08:05<Gonozal_VIII>don't be so lazy :P
08:05<Frostregen>hmm, first thing would be some better breakdown code ;)
08:06<Frostregen>(which resets on service. not on breakdown)
08:06<jez9999>Frostregen: btw how tough do you think that bridge thing would be with the copy/paste patch?
08:06<Gonozal_VIII>that bridge thing?
08:06<Frostregen>not very hard
08:06<Frostregen>just a fallback routine
08:06<Frostregen>just some work fiddeling out the constraints
08:07<jez9999>should be good
08:07<jez9999>the bridges on my junctions are all so small anyway that any bridge type could be built for them
08:07<Frostregen>but first comes this signal stuff
08:07<Frostregen>there is a minimum length too
08:07<Gonozal_VIII>anyways, leave your tracks as they are, change signal direction on the straight track to allow them to pass through and add service at order for every depot they pass by and it should work just fine
08:08<jez9999>Gonozal_VIII: i know but that's annyoyingly hard work ;-) and requires me to update all trains orders if i add a service depot, very annoying
08:08<jez9999>i have to figure out which trains are going past it, and add it to their orders
08:08<Gonozal_VIII>don't you use shared orders?
08:09<Gonozal_VIII>and/or groups
08:09<jez9999>only for trains on the same route
08:09<Frostregen>so just use mandatory, and live with some trains servicing too often ;)
08:10<jez9999>which i do now
08:10<jez9999>just be nice to have the functionality i specified above, it would be perfect
08:10<jez9999>trains servicing at exactly the right time, but most passing straight thru
08:10<Gonozal_VIII>i told you how to get that :P
08:10<jez9999>without having to spacify manually ;-)
08:11<Frostregen>high-throughput mandatory conserves train order, and train distance to each other. You never have a train slowing down another train due to servicing
08:11<Gonozal_VIII>they do it on their own too, only problem there is that they don't check if they can reach their next destination if they service there
08:12<jez9999>Frostregen: yeah but you have a train slowing down itself due to servicing ;-) thanks for the diagram tho, i'll probably save a copy/paste of that
08:12<Gonozal_VIII>anyways, servicing every 20 days seems to be way too much
08:13<jez9999>yeah maybe 30
08:13<jez9999>but the default of 150 is no good, breakdowns too often
08:13<Frostregen>if my thought are correct this does not limit line throughput, just time needed to arrive
08:13<Eddi|zuHause2><Frostregen> but first comes this signal stuff <- wasn't your MiniIN version already capable of copying PBS signals?
08:13<jez9999>time is everything :-)
08:13<Gonozal_VIII>watch the reliability percentage
08:14<jez9999>Frostregen: it doesnt support PBS copying?
08:14<jez9999>i have a copy/paste with PBS signals in it
08:14<jez9999>is pastes ok
08:15<Frostregen>it is a basic problem...
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08:16<Frostregen>signaltype are rebuilt by clicking ctrl+buildsignal
08:16<Frostregen>a fixed number of times
08:16<Frostregen>if you use the new pbs patch, you can change the cycle order
08:16<Frostregen>thus corrupting my approach
08:17<Frostregen>back then there was no functionality to build a given type directly
08:17<Eddi|zuHause2>hm... you could change that cycle temporarily
08:17<Frostregen>this has been introduced by signal-gui
08:17<Frostregen>so it is no problem now
08:17<Gonozal_VIII>directly is better than cycling
08:18<Gonozal_VIII>only one command :-)
08:18<Frostregen>i just need to do it ;)
08:18<Eddi|zuHause2>yeah, it is probably the better approach ;)
08:18<Eddi|zuHause2>but i understand that your patch is older ;)
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08:32<jez9999>omg, i just paid 1.1million to 'prospect' for a coal mine and... nothing happpened
08:32<jez9999>does it just take 1.1 million if you cant build one? surtely prospecting should be a lot cheaper
08:32<Eddi|zuHause2>that is the point of prospecting
08:32<mrfrenzy>not all prospects work out in the end ;)
08:33<jez9999>that's incredibly expensive for prospecting though, building i can understand but prospecting should be like 1/10th of the price
08:33<jez9999>otherwise it's never going to be worth it
08:33<Eddi|zuHause2>are you kidding? building is the cheapest of all
08:33<pax``>Is there a way to make openttd run in a particular resolution? It's not comfortable to run 800x600 and 1024*768 is too much in height for my widescreen monitor to play in a window
08:33<Eddi|zuHause2>finding the ressources is the expensive part
08:34<Eddi|zuHause2>pax``: "resolution = 1680,988" in the .cfg
08:34<Frostregen>pax: just resize the window?
08:34<Eddi|zuHause2>but i just maximise the window
08:35<pax``>doh >.<
08:35<pax``>Should've tried the most obvious before asking >.<
08:35<Eddi|zuHause2>that is common these days ;)
08:36<pax``>Weird though, I remember trying resizing and that it wouldn't work... Now it has quirks but works... Maximising works great though
08:37<pax``>The screen starts flickering while resizing
08:37<pax``>Nevermind it's not an issue now that I've been introduced to the mighty maximise button >.<
08:39<Frostregen>hm, yapp changes meaning of CmdBuildSingleSignal p1 bit 7
08:40<Frostregen>so there can't be one version of my code for both :(
08:42<pax``>Is there something besides the visual difference of having either 2 railstations one beside the other and one large with 2 railroads in it?
08:43<Frostregen>and trains cannot choose the other station
08:45<pax``>Hmm... Choose as in when they try to pathfind? Catchment as in how far the station can transfer goods to/from?
08:46<Frostregen>both yes
08:46<Frostregen>if you order a train to load at a station, it will use any free platform of exactly this station
08:47<Frostregen>it will never use a platform of an adjacent but different station
08:48<Frostregen>this is useful for separating loading bays at farms for example. (one for grain, one for cattle)
08:48<Gonozal_VIII>waypoints :-)
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08:49<Frostregen>yes, i use waypoints too
08:49<Gonozal_VIII>but waypoints on a diagonal line suck, there should be diagonal waypoints
08:49<Frostregen>but nonetheless it is a possibility ;)
08:49<SmatZ>and diagonal stations
08:50<SmatZ>and diagonal roads
08:50<SmatZ>and diagonal tunnels and bridges
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08:50<pax``>Just make 3d non-tile based ttd and get it over with =p
08:50<Gonozal_VIII>hehe, hexagonal tiles
08:50<Eddi|zuHause2><Gonozal_VIII> but waypoints on a diagonal line suck, there should be diagonal waypoints <-- problem is, you need two waypoints on the same tile
08:51<Gonozal_VIII>you could disallow that...
08:51<Prof_Frink>Or, do away with phyical waypoints altogether
08:51<Prof_Frink>"Go via 125,482"
08:51<SmatZ>like locomotion
08:52<Gonozal_VIII>rather make them like routemarkers
08:52<Gonozal_VIII>that would be best imho, then you could place them on every tile, even on one with signals
08:53<Eddi|zuHause2>what _i_ need with waypoints is conditional destionations... "go via 'Platform 1' OR 'Platform 3'"
08:53<Eddi|zuHause2>[whichever is free]
08:54<Gonozal_VIII>that could be done with connected waypoints...
08:54<Eddi|zuHause2>only if i want to have fixed sets
08:54<Gonozal_VIII>hmm yes
08:55<Eddi|zuHause2>i could want to send another train to "'Platform 3' OR 'Platform 4'"
08:55<Eddi|zuHause2>the number of combinations is exponential
08:55<Prof_Frink>Or, on the coord-system, be able to drag a rectangle as a waypoint - "Go via 125,482:126,473"
08:56<Eddi|zuHause2>rectangle wouldn't be enough to say "every odd platform"
08:56<Prof_Frink>Yeah, you'd need to be able to use arbitrary shapes
08:57<Gonozal_VIII>with the ; as or :-)
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08:58<Eddi|zuHause2>i'd still prefer a textual representation of the waypoint
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08:59<Gonozal_VIII>trackbits would be needed too...
09:00<Eddi|zuHause2>don't go there ;)
09:00<Frostregen>[13:53:43] <Prof_Frink> "Go via 125,482" -> or make it an area
09:00<Gonozal_VIII>it's quite different to use the right or the left track
09:00<Prof_Frink>Frostregen: [12:55:44] < Prof_Frink> Or, on the coord-system, be able to drag a rectangle as a waypoint - "Go via 125,482:126,473"
09:01<Frostregen>ah, just read it
09:04<Sacro>>< why is x-chat widescreening my text
09:05<Sacro>ITS A 16:9 SCREEN DAMNIT
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09:07<pax``>valuables are only transportable between banks?
09:08<pax``>=( There's only one bank on the map right now...
09:08<Gonozal_VIII>and ecs tourist centers
09:09<Eddi|zuHause2>there is also a minimum distance to discourage transporting back to the same bank
09:12<jez9999>is there a patch that allows mass-upgrading of railroad trains to monorail trains?
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09:12<Frostregen>i don't think so
09:12<jez9999>maybe something like, when you convert track type on a depot, it upgrades all train engines inside to the best possible monorail vehicle?
09:12<jez9999>otherwise it's virtually impossible to convert a large network's track type
09:12<Frostregen>it just takes one or two years
09:13<mrfrenzy>problem for me is finding a good grf set that has trains for all cargo on all traintypes
09:13<Gonozal_VIII>are there even grf sets with monorail?
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09:14<Eddi|zuHause2>jez9999: problem is, the wagons also have to be converted
09:14<Frostregen>since speed changes you have to accomodate for less needed trains anyway
09:15<pax``>Will it make a city grow larger if I only transfer passangers to it, one way?
09:15<jez9999>one or 2 years?
09:15<jez9999>not likely, i have 90 trains
09:15<jez9999>unless you mean 1 or 2 years of real time :-D
09:15<Frostregen>nope, you just need a good system
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09:15<jez9999>what good system?
09:16<Frostregen>send all trains to depot. then go to all loading stations, one after another.
09:16<Frostregen>click on trainlist
09:16<Gonozal_VIII>keep one train of every shared orders group, send it to a depot, sell it, upgrade depot, buy a new train
09:16<Frostregen>build a maglev/mono train which will replace those, then clone enough and start them
09:17<jez9999>and how do you get them to run on railtrack
09:17<Gonozal_VIII>you don't
09:17<Frostregen>convert the track first
09:17<Eddi|zuHause2>the system is very easy... build new depot next to old depot, open both windows
09:17<Frostregen>(after sending to depot)
09:17<Gekz>wake me up
09:17<Eddi|zuHause2>(build new train, share/copy orders with old train, sell old train)*
09:18<Frostregen>eddi: this approach takes more time, since you need to check all depots
09:18<Frostregen>and replace every single train
09:18<Prof_Frink>Eddi|zuHause2: compare ttdpatch: upgrade depot, sell train, buy train, buy wagons, go
09:18<Eddi|zuHause2>well, you have a list of all trains
09:18<jez9999>frost: on many loading stations, i have several different train types
09:18<jez9999>this complicates things greatly
09:19<Frostregen>hmm, ok
09:19<Eddi|zuHause2>Prof_Frink: i think there was a patch that allowed this
09:19<jez9999>nah, i need to write some patch that autoconverts trains in depots when upgrading track type
09:19<Gonozal_VIII>prof frink, it's almost the same in open
09:19<Gonozal_VIII>sell train, upgrade depot, buy train, train has old orders
09:19<jez9999>you should always have an equivalent engine and wagon for each type of old engine and wagon, shouldn't you?
09:20<Eddi|zuHause2>Gonozal_VIII: only works with only one train inside the depot
09:20<Eddi|zuHause2>jez9999: no
09:20<jez9999>when wouldnt you?
09:20<Eddi|zuHause2>some sets disallow freight transportation with maglev
09:20<Gonozal_VIII>that's why i said keep one of each shared orders group
09:20<Eddi|zuHause2>only allow passengers/mail/goods/valuables
09:21<jez9999>Eddi|zuHause2: well presumably you could detect that there is no equivalent?
09:21<jez9999>in that case just popup an error saying 'couldnt convert all trains'
09:21<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r12368 /trunk/ (7 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: use explicit body for loops and conditions and remove -Wno-empty-body from the configure script
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09:22<Eddi|zuHause2>jez9999: the problem is more fundamental, see
09:23<Eddi|zuHause2>it would be the same with replacing rail->maglev
09:23<Frostregen>or maybe you would have to specify a replacement for each existing engine/wagon combo, before conversion
09:24<Frostregen>(just those which are currently used ingame)
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09:24<Eddi|zuHause2>Frostregen: link also applies to you
09:24<jez9999>Frostregen: damn newGRF :-)
09:25<jez9999>well i dont use newgrf, so i'd probably just write s patch for the default stuff
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09:25<Eddi|zuHause2>jez9999: just don't expect this to get into any official build ;)
09:25<jez9999>the buggy current autoreplace is in the official build
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09:26<Frostregen>eddi: no, i said "specify a replacement for any used train/wagon combo beforehand"
09:26<Eddi|zuHause2>it's a bjarnism, that is no comparison ;)
09:27<Eddi|zuHause2>Frostregen: still, replacing happens one by one
09:27<jez9999>what is a DMU?
09:27<Prof_Frink>diseasel multiple unit
09:27<jez9999>what does multiple unit mean?
09:27<Eddi|zuHause2>1. replace engine
09:27<Eddi|zuHause2>2. try to apply wagons to engine
09:27<Eddi|zuHause2>3. fail!!
09:28<Eddi|zuHause2>[4. replace first wagon ...]
09:28<Frostregen>this is the current autoreplace system
09:29<Frostregen>not the one which would be needed for semi-auto tracktype conversion
09:29<Eddi|zuHause2>problem is that you cannot test multiple replacements in a row
09:29<Frostregen>which would have an exact target consist, for every given consist
09:29<Eddi|zuHause2>and rollback in case it fails
09:29<Eddi|zuHause2>no, that is not needed
09:29<+glx>autoreplace needs yet another full rewrite
09:29<jez9999>hmm, is there, like, 1 function that's currently used for autoreplace?
09:29<jez9999>i'm just thinking that this functionality could just hook into that
09:30<jez9999>then when autoreplace is fixed this will be too
09:30<Eddi|zuHause2>it would also be overcomplicated to specify complete consists
09:30<Yorick>grep -r "autoreplace" * ;)
09:30<Eddi|zuHause2>and still there is no way to replace more than one single vehicle at a time [command wise]
09:30<Maedhros>Yorick: you'd probably want a -i in there, too ;)
09:31-!-lugo [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:31<Yorick>noone writes "AutoReplace"...
09:31<+glx>autorenew uses autoreplace too
09:31<jez9999>when you convert a depot's railtype, it can check to see if any stopped rail vehicles are there
09:32<jez9999>if they are, it can hook into the autoreplace for each of them
09:32<jez9999>somehow figuring out an equivalent replacement engine and wagon for the new track type :-)
09:32<Maedhros>glx: out of interest, how many rewrites has autoreplace already had?
09:32<+glx>3 IIRC
09:33<Eddi|zuHause2>Frostregen: what is needed is a vehicle sandbox, where you can assemble the new train without money-constraints, then test if the consist can be started, then test if the money suffices
09:33<+glx>Bjarni's style ;)
09:33-!-stillunknown [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:34<Eddi|zuHause2>jez9999: not needed, you can just upgrade the depot, and then use the "replace" button in the depot to upgrade the trains
09:34<Eddi|zuHause2>only disallow all trains that are not of the correct railtype to be started
09:35<Eddi|zuHause2>[which should already be implemented]
09:35-!-roboman [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:35<jez9999>Eddi|zuHause2: you cant upgrade the depot with trains of a different track type inside?
09:35<jez9999>you get 'train in the way'
09:36<Eddi|zuHause2>jez9999: that is a one-liner ;)
09:36<jez9999>"disallow all trains that are not of the correct railtype to be started"
09:36<jez9999>hmm, interesting idea
09:36<+glx>like you can't upgrade a track with a running train
09:36<jez9999>but depots are fundamentally different
09:36<jez9999>trains 'disappear' inside a depot
09:37<+glx>they are tracks internaly
09:37-!-Yorick [] has quit [Quit: restarting...]
09:37<jez9999>yeah, thought they might be :-\
09:37<Eddi|zuHause2>glx: afaik rail->electric is allowed with train
09:37<+glx>only for depots
09:37<jez9999>i've upgraded rail-electric with tracks
09:38<+glx>jez9999: and you may have missing catenries
09:38-!-mikl_ [] has joined #openttd
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09:39<SmatZ>it just works
09:39<Eddi|zuHause2>it was disallowed in the beginning, but there were too many complaints
09:39<Eddi|zuHause2>so it got allowed
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09:46-!-Yorick [] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> <- In tests, 0x09 out of 0x0A l33t h4x0rz prefer it :)]
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09:57<jez9999>another thing i wanted to ask
09:58<jez9999>has anyone written a patch to filter out companies on the 'view company-coloured stuff' map?
09:58<jez9999>ie. when you go onto the map and view the 'land owners' option, you can select which company's land gets coloured
10:04<Eddi|zuHause2>you mean similar to filtering industries?
10:04<Eddi|zuHause2>that should be easy
10:05<jez9999>seemed quite obvious given the industry filtering so i wondered if anyone had written a patch for it
10:05-!-planetmaker [~chatzilla@] has joined #openttd
10:05<Eddi|zuHause2>i have not seen it
10:06-!-jez9999 [] has quit []
10:09<Gonozal_VIII>they forgot the fireball
10:10-!-helb [~helb@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:10-!-helb [~helb@] has joined #openttd
10:11<Gekz>would you rather be a large man with a small penis, or a small man with a large penis?
10:11<Eddi|zuHause2>wrong question
10:11<Gekz>answer it
10:11<SmatZ>I don't get why he has 2 helmets on his head
10:12<Gonozal_VIII>because it's xtra dangerous there
10:12<SmatZ>at 01:39
10:12-!-divo [] has joined #openttd
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10:12-!-Link [] has joined #openttd
10:13<Eddi|zuHause2>i found the missing Link
10:13<SmatZ>between "apes" and human?
10:13<Gonozal_VIII>isn't that the zelda guy?
10:13-!-Yorick [] has joined #openttd
10:14<Link>yes im from zelda
10:14*SmatZ doesn't mind
10:14<Link>i actually heard this name before i found it that there was a game called zelda...
10:14<Gonozal_VIII>i never mindeded at all
10:15<Yorick>I think the whole chatting stuff should be redone...e.g. [all] chat and other chat types seperated, colors
10:15<Link>Is there anywhere i can find a manual for rail lights ? :P
10:15<Gonozal_VIII>when they are green, trains move
10:15<Eddi|zuHause2>in the wiki?
10:15<Link>it always gets fucked up when i use them..
10:16<Eddi|zuHause2>use the yapp signals, they are much more natural ;)
10:16<Yorick>how about redrawing the LA window when the rating changes :o
10:16<Maedhros>this is one of the best guides i've seen - (though it is a bit ttdp-specific at times)
10:17<Eddi|zuHause2>Yorick: provide a patch ;)
10:17<Link>oh its called signal not rail lights ^^
10:17*Yorick wants that programmable signals
10:18<Link>woot ? O.o
10:25-!-Link [] has quit []
10:25<Eddi|zuHause2>you have strange eyes
10:26-!-DEFACKTwalker [] has joined #openttd
10:26<DEFACKTwalker>hi all
10:26<DEFACKTwalker>is anyome here?
10:27<Yorick>and the 103 others aren't here either
10:27<murr4y>no i haven't seen anyome in a while
10:27-!-nzvip [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
10:28<DEFACKTwalker>okay, cYa
10:28-!-DEFACKTwalker [] has quit []
10:32<Eddi|zuHause2>this is ever so funny ;)
10:33<Eddi|zuHause2>"hi, is this the maths channel, where you can ask about maths?"
10:33<Eddi|zuHause2>"no, this is a CS-Clan channel called 'maths'"
10:33<Eddi|zuHause2>"ok, bye"
10:35<BrDead>I just can't understand why there are so many ircnets for open source communities, isn't just one enough?
10:36<BrDead>I knew freenode already, I heard about OFTC first time when I joined here :)
10:36<BrDead>and probably there are many others too
10:37<SmatZ>BrDead: maybe #oftc is a good place where to ask
10:37<Eddi|zuHause2>this "isn't just one enough" comes up ever so often all over the place
10:38<Eddi|zuHause2>openttd vs. ttdpatch
10:38<Eddi|zuHause2>gnome vs. kde
10:38<Eddi|zuHause2>oftc vs. freenode
10:38<Yorick>freenode vs. devnode
10:38<hylje>vim is superior
10:38-!-[1]Mark [] has joined #openttd
10:38<Eddi|zuHause2>yes, i was getting to that ;)
10:39<SmatZ>yay notepad!
10:39<BrDead>SmatZ: maybe, I was just wondering... :)
10:39-!-Mark [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
10:39-!-[1]Mark is now known as Mark
10:39<BrDead>I'm not a linux geek but maybe that's the reason why I can't find that so reasonable :)
10:40<SmatZ>BrDead: it has a good side - IRC servers limit the number of channels you can join...
10:40<SmatZ>when you are at more networks, you can join more channels :)
10:41<Yorick>they do?!
10:41<SmatZ>Yorick: yes, at least quakenet had limit ~25 channels
10:41<SmatZ>I don't remember, but I know I reached it...
10:41<SmatZ>though you can connect under multiple nicks :)
10:42<Yorick>they block that for my IP
10:42<BrDead>SmatZ: yeah, but I think that if you have a need to join more than 25 channels you might have some other problems too than that :D
10:43<BrDead>meaning that in that point getting a life would be a better solution :)
10:43<SmatZ>BrDead: well... probably it is this way for historical reasons (that I don't know :-)
10:44<BrDead>SmatZ: in most cases that's the way
10:44-!-nzvip [] has joined #openttd
10:44<Yorick>what happenes if I do p->Recv_uint8(); while there isn't anything to Recv anymore?
10:44<Eddi|zuHause2><SmatZ> though you can connect under multiple nicks :) <- except if you use t-online ;)
10:44<Yorick>or wanadoo
10:45<SmatZ>Yorick: probably it will wait
10:46<Yorick>is there any way to check if there is anything to recv then?
10:47-!-UnderBuilder [~chatzilla@] has joined #openttd
10:47<SmatZ>most likely there is
10:52<SmatZ>NetworkReceive() uses select()
10:52<SmatZ>with zero timeout
10:52<SmatZ>to check if there is any packet waiting
10:58-!-Alberth [] has joined #openttd
11:04<Yorick>I just broke something
11:04<Gonozal_VIII>use a cast
11:05<Yorick>I broke everything that has to do with PACKET_CLIENT_SET_NAME
11:05<Yorick>and I'm not sure about the cause yet
11:05<Yorick>the client list just fails with a spritecache error
11:06<Gonozal_VIII>that's what you use if something is broken
11:06-!-a1270 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:06<Yorick>it fails to transmit the first char
11:07<Eddi|zuHause2>yeah, just cast everything to void* and you never have type errors anymore ;)
11:07<Yorick>it swapped the name and the language somehow, I think
11:07<Yorick>how much can a packet actually contain?
11:08-!-Washu [] has joined #openttd
11:08<Yorick>a char[80] and uint8?
11:08<Eddi|zuHause2>truebrain is the network expert, i believe
11:08<Yorick>and not here
11:08<Eddi|zuHause2>@seen truebrain
11:08<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause2: truebrain was last seen in #openttd 4 weeks, 5 days, 16 hours, 14 minutes, and 39 seconds ago: <TrueBrain> night :)
11:09<Yorick>now try /whois TrueBrain on the other hand
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11:13<Alberth>Yorick: I think it can; it depends on the MTU, which is for my eth0 1500
11:14<Alberth>Yorick: although I don't know whether that number includes or excludes checksums etc
11:14<Yorick>so it could be not-possible?
11:15<Eddi|zuHause2>MTU should have nothing to do with it... larger high-level packets are just split into several low-level packets
11:16<Alberth>Wikipedia says it is without, ie you have MTU bytes available for use
11:16<Alberth>Eddi: Not if you are using UDP
11:17-!-a1270 [] has joined #openttd
11:17<Yorick>using TCP
11:17<Eddi|zuHause2>you deserve a giant slap for this unqualified statement
11:18*Yorick slaps Alberth's bottom and grins cheekily
11:18-!-Washu [] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!]
11:20<Alberth>Well, you started over packet sizes... :P
11:20<Yorick>because it fails
11:20<Alberth>s/over/talking about/
11:22<Eddi|zuHause2># Der Wolf, das Lamm ... HURZ
11:22<Yorick>:o wait-wrong order of recv-ing
11:23-!-stillunknown [] has joined #openttd
11:23<Alberth>So the network is byte order-preserving :)
11:26<+glx>and it is endian safe too
11:27-!-mikl [] has quit [Quit: mikl]
11:27<Eddi|zuHause2>a friend of mine had huge endian issues when trying to construct a CRC for his packet (on an FPGA)
11:27<Eddi|zuHause2>he somehow had to reverse the bytes
11:27<Eddi|zuHause2>and then he had to reverse the bits in each nibble
11:28<Prof_Frink>Eddi|zuHause2: Huge Endian? Is that like Big Endian, but biggerer?
11:28<Eddi|zuHause2>yes, bigerererer
11:28-!-mikl [] has joined #openttd
11:29-!-anhedral is now known as dih
11:31<Yorick>hello dih
11:31<dih>hell... oh
11:33*dih pats yorick on the head
11:33<dih>there there
11:33<dih>it'll all be over soon
11:33<Yorick>I don't know what to think of that :o
11:35<Eddi|zuHause2># Wenn früh am Morgen die Werkssirene dröhnt
11:35<Eddi|zuHause2># und die Stechuhr beim Stechen lustvoll stöhnt.
11:35<Eddi|zuHause2># In der Montagehaale die Neonsonne strahlt,
11:35<Eddi|zuHause2># und der Gabelstaplerfahrer mit der Stapelgabel prahlt.
11:35<Yorick>| And English only
11:35<Eddi|zuHause2># Ja dann wird wieder in die Hände gespuckt,
11:35<Eddi|zuHause2># wir steigern das Bruttosozialprodukt
11:37-!-LordAzamath [~LAlord]] has joined #openttd
11:38<Yorick>if (ci->client_name != client_name) { <-- this check at DEF_SERVER_RECEIVE_COMMAND(PACKET_CLIENT_SET_NAME) somehow fails
11:38<Eddi|zuHause2>comparing strings by addresses?
11:39<SmatZ>hi LordAzamath
11:39<Gonozal_VIII> hehe funny translation
11:41<Yorick>would strcmp work therE?
11:42<Eddi|zuHause2>there are a million different versions...
11:43<Yorick>doesn't strcmp just work?
11:43<Eddi|zuHause2>Gonozal_VIII: sounds like a google translation or something ;)
11:43<Gonozal_VIII>there are even words left untranslated^^
11:45<Eddi|zuHause2>but it's surely one of the greatest songs ever ;)
11:46-!-Yorick [] has quit [Quit: have to go]
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12:00<UnderBuilder>I tried to enter maarten's server and I get connection lost in joining
12:03-!-divo [] has quit [Quit: Quitting]
12:05<Rubidium>sounds like a sucky connection somewhere
12:05<UnderBuilder>mine is 256k down
12:05-!-Zavior [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:07<Rubidium>sucky being lots of dropped packets and such
12:07*Gonozal_VIII drops a packet at rubidiums head
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12:08-!-Gonozal is now known as Gonozal_VIII
12:09<Gonozal_VIII>dropping packets is bad for the connection...
12:10<Gonozal_VIII>woa, sp season 12
12:12-!-LordAzamath [~LAlord]] has quit [Quit: Try HydraIRC -> <-]
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12:21<Devedse>can someone help me with setting up a server
12:21-!-Zaviori [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:22<Devedse>some1 here?
12:23*SpComb yawns
12:24<Devedse>can u help me with setting up a server
12:24-!-Mark [] has joined #openttd
12:24<Devedse>can someone help me a litle setting up a server
12:24<SmatZ>Devedse: don't ask to ask, ask
12:25<Devedse>huh wot O_O
12:25<SmatZ>somebody could know
12:25<SmatZ>just ask your question
12:25<Devedse>k :)
12:25-!-yorick [] has joined #openttd
12:25<Devedse>i want to run a server with the cfg file: c:/ded.cfg and that automatically loads the saved file: c:/ttdsave/online.sav. de server should nevah reset or something and only be private for me and my friend
12:26<Devedse>so it has to be protected with the password (lets say): hello
12:27-!-Slowpoke [] has joined #openttd
12:29<Devedse>ah man i post it on the form
12:29<Devedse>no one is here ;(
12:29-!-Devedse [] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!]
12:29<yorick>no, you don't ask anything
12:29<SpComb>patience is undervalued
12:30<Purno>yo yorick
12:30<yorick>hello Purno
12:31<Purno>are you able / willing to host a 24/7 openttd server in future?
12:31<yorick>willing: yes, able: no
12:32<yorick>why do you ask?
12:32<Rubidium>yorick: reading with (packet)->Recv_* when there is nothing left in the packet will terminate the connection
12:35<yorick>how to check?
12:35-!-divo [] has joined #openttd
12:35<Rubidium>well, if you don't know the data that is in the packet there's something wrong with the protocol (imo)
12:36<yorick>I want to check if clients are patched or not
12:36-!-Slowpoke [] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
12:36<Eddi|zuHause2>bad idea
12:36<Eddi|zuHause2>patch all clients or none
12:36<yorick>thats not always possible
12:37<Eddi|zuHause2>yes it is, just include the patch in the official build ;)
12:37<yorick>thats not always possible
12:38<Eddi|zuHause2>it is for patches that make sense ;)
12:38<yorick>now some don't
12:39<yorick>like distributing grf's, makes sense, but not included
12:39<Eddi|zuHause2>gnah... i just tried to write [ESC]:wq in kate :p
12:39-!-Slowpoke [] has joined #openttd
12:40<Eddi|zuHause2>no, there are reasons for not doing it
12:40<Eddi|zuHause2>they have been brought up multiple times
12:40<Eddi|zuHause2>just look up the discussions
12:41<yorick>I know the reasons
12:41<Eddi|zuHause2>main opposing reasons are typically varying license issues, and outdated grf versions
12:41-!-kaan [~Klaus@] has joined #openttd
12:42<kaan>hello all
12:43-!-Singaporekid [] has joined #openttd
12:43<yorick>Purno: will the NS-set be finished anytime soon?
12:45-!-NukeBuster|laptop [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:50<Gonozal_VIII>national socialistic set?
13:00<yorick>no, "Nederlandse Spoorwegen
13:02<pax``>Is it best to connect the longest possible routes? That is, rather than delivering resources from close mines go across the map to find one far away?
13:02<yorick>depends on cargo payment factors
13:02<Gonozal_VIII>you get more money per tonne that way
13:03<mrfrenzy>the one way trip shouldn't take more than approx 140 days
13:03<mrfrenzy>depending on what cargo
13:03<mrfrenzy>for some cargoes its as low as 90 days
13:04-!-dih is now known as anhedral
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13:05<pax``>I usually get the rating of the station drop very low and the AI players block resources tapping to my station if I don't have trains coming in frequently... Any way to prevent that?
13:05<yorick>add more trains
13:05<yorick>if crash, learn how to make signals
13:06<Gonozal_VIII>there should be enough trains that there's always one loading
13:08<pax``>I'll try that, thanks
13:08-!-Journy [] has joined #openttd
13:10<Journy>does anyone have any reccomendations for train sets?
13:10*Journy is bored with the stock sets...
13:11<yorick>try US
13:11<yorick>UK? Dutch? Canadian?
13:11<@peter1138>CanSet! :D
13:11<Gonozal_VIII>serbian is cool
13:12<Journy>i have tried the north american renewal set, and the mag lev trains at the end arent capable of running anything but goods?
13:12<Gonozal_VIII>most sets have that
13:12<Journy>why is that?
13:12<yorick>because wagon ID's are used for nice wagons
13:13<Gonozal_VIII>transporting coal at 500 km/h is not very (sorry for the bad word) realistic
13:13<De_Ghosty>it is the future!!
13:13<Journy>indeed, the future...
13:13<Gonozal_VIII>nah... i don't think that will happen in the future
13:13<+glx>and imagine how the coal "react" in corners
13:14<Journy>so umm all sets are like that?
13:14<De_Ghosty>why are we transporting coal in the future?
13:14<Gonozal_VIII>it just doesn't make sense to transport cheap mass goods very fast
13:14<Journy>because coal will still be a very cheap energy source in the future
13:14<Journy>2050 isnt that far in the future anyways...
13:14<De_Ghosty>coal is not really that cheap anymore
13:14<Journy>blame china.
13:15<yorick>[18:13] <Gonozal_VIII> transporting coal at 500 km/h is not very (sorry for the bad word) realistic, transporting pax at 500km/h, however, is!
13:15<Slowpoke>coal is cheaper that some years back
13:15<Gonozal_VIII>pax care about speed, coal doesn't
13:15<Journy>of course coal cares.
13:16<mrfrenzy>yorick: there already are working trains that go 500 km/h
13:16<Journy>isnt the speed record 580?
13:16<mrfrenzy>It's not unrealistic at all that they will be common in 2020
13:16<mrfrenzy>574 or smth
13:16<Journy>oddly enough China has a few maglevs...
13:17<Journy>ok so, how hard is it for me to add in a coal car for maglevs?
13:17<Gonozal_VIII>there could also be vacuum maglev networks with 5000 km/h or simmilar stuff but i don't think something like that will be used for freight
13:18<Journy>nah only intercontinental transport im sure.
13:18<Gonozal_VIII>global network :-)
13:18<Gonozal_VIII>could replace planes
13:18-!-kaan [~Klaus@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
13:18<yorick>well...we have a kinda european network
13:19<mrfrenzy>I would like to see in the future different multiplayer games interconnected like continents
13:19<Journy>europe is small.
13:19<yorick>with transfer and take goods
13:19<Gonozal_VIII>that won't happen
13:20<Journy>erm... so whats the best train sets?
13:20<Journy>is the US renewal set pretty decent?
13:20<Gonozal_VIII>you already got a lot of answers
13:20<Sacro>how do i compile openttd for windows on linux
13:20<Purno><<yorick>> Purno: will the NS-set be finished anytime soon? <-- it will be finished anytime, yes
13:20<Sacro>./configure --build=i486-mingw32 works
13:20<Sacro>but make fails when using strgen
13:21<Journy>ok how about another question, how different are the nightly builds from the most recent release?
13:21<+glx>Sacro: use --host maybe
13:21<De_Ghosty>2007 - France - TGV - 574.8 km/h
13:21<De_Ghosty>u don't even need the future
13:21<Sacro>glx: i tried that and it failed too
13:21<Sacro>but i did a make clean
13:22<Sacro>then tried again, and it seems happier :D
13:22<Sacro>eugh, need fontconfig
13:23-!-a1270 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:23<Sacro>installing mingw32-freetype now
13:23<+glx>disable fontconfig (not needed for win32)
13:23<Sacro>glx: pfft
13:23<Sacro>i've built it now
13:24*yorick goes on with his ficl patch
13:24<+glx>freetype != fontconfig anyway
13:24<Sacro>glx: :(
13:24<Sacro>well it disposed of the wrnings
13:24<Sacro>now SDL fails
13:24-!-Wezz6400 [] has quit [Quit: Caught sigterm, terminating...]
13:24<yorick>yes, I've named it "FICL", "Flags In Client List"
13:24<+glx>not needed for windows
13:25<Sacro>i don't think it installed mingw32-libpng
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13:27<yorick>but I need some help with
13:27<Journy>guys also, with the US renewal set some of my trains travel by rail slower than the states maximum speed they have, one of my trains says maximum speed 110 mph, but max's out at 60 mph, is there a reason for this?
13:28<yorick>wagon speed limits
13:28-!-Wezz6400 [] has joined #openttd
13:28<yorick>disable them using the patches if you don't like it
13:29<Journy>im really new to this game, is there a place to find all these patches?
13:29<yorick>3rd button from the right on main-toolbar, keep-pressed and select Configure Patches
13:31<Journy>is this a standard patch though?
13:31<yorick>Vehicles->Enable wagon speed limits
13:32<Journy>ahh thank you.
13:34-!-planetmaker [~chatzilla@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:34<yorick>but is there anyone that can help mé?
13:37<Sacro>how do i disable sdl?
13:37<yorick>-v anyother
13:37<yorick>-h to list them
13:37<Sacro>no, when compiling
13:39<@peter1138>Not much use without it...
13:41<Sacro>Unknown Option --disable-sdl
13:41<Sacro>tis using /usr/include/SDL
13:41<Sacro>which isn't right
13:41<Sacro>should be using /usr/i486-ming32/include
13:42<yorick>modify configure?
13:42<Gonozal_VIII>what about that yorick?
13:43<yorick>they suggest that chrissicom should go working with you on maintaining a patchpack
13:44<yorick>hmm...can uint8's be negative?
13:44<yorick>ok, they can't
13:45<yorick>uint6 doesn't exist, does it?
13:45<Gonozal_VIII>wouldn't make sense
13:45<Gonozal_VIII>ok, it could..
13:45<Sacro>oh god now what
13:46<Sacro>i think it's lacking g++ :(
13:46<Gonozal_VIII>you could combine 6 booleans^^
13:46<Sacro>or maybe ln
13:46<Sacro>its)]+0x183d): undefined reference to `operator delete[](void*)'
13:46<Sacro>yapf/yapf_ship.o:yapf_ship.cpp:(.text$_ZN16CYapfFollowShipTI16CYapfShip_TypesTI10CYapfShip313CFollowTrackTIL13TransportType2ELb0EE20CNodeList_HashTableTI14CYapfShipNodeTI20CYapfNodeKeyTrackDirELi16ELi20EEEE15ChooseShipTrackEP7Vehiclej13DiagDirection9TrackBits[CYapfFollowShipT<CYapfShip_TypesT<CYapfShip3, CFollowTrackT<(TransportType)2, false>, CNodeList_HashTableT<CYapfShipNodeT<CYapfNodeKeyTrackDir>, 16, 20> > >::ChooseShipTrack(Vehicle*, u
13:46<Sacro>collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
13:46<yorick>or I could combine uint4 with 2 bools?
13:47<yorick>but that way, I would look crazy
13:47<Gonozal_VIII>you mean even crazier?
13:47<@peter1138>uint4? heh
13:48<Sacro>argh god
13:49<Gonozal_VIII>int4 :-) -8 to 7 :-)
13:50<@peter1138>Used in some of the NFO spec...
13:51*yorick help!
13:51<yorick>if (strcmp (ci->client_name, client_name) == 0) { is always true :(
13:53-!-planetmaker [] has joined #openttd
13:56<Gonozal_VIII>why not ! instead of that == 0 stuff?
13:58<ln>Gonozal_VIII: bad style
13:58-!-|Jeroen| [] has joined #openttd
13:58<Gonozal_VIII>really? hmm
13:58<ln>in someone's opinion at least
13:58<Sacro>grrr, can't build
13:59<Gonozal_VIII>what about if(somebool == true)
13:59<ln>ben the builder -- can we fix it!
14:00<Sacro>how do i stop it finding SDL >M
14:00<Purno>how can I resetvehicles in openttd?
14:01<Purno>resetengines, ok, how can I do it?
14:02<Purno>how can I open the console?
14:02<Gonozal_VIII>thingy above tab
14:02<Purno>nvm, got it
14:02<Purno>key wasn't really responding
14:02<Gonozal_VIII>bad key
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14:02<Sacro>i can get the ./configure --build=i486-mingw32 --enable-sdl=/usr/i486-mingw32-bin/sdl-config
14:02<Sacro>but make fails
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14:03<Gonozal_VIII>oh noes, another ee
14:03-!-k4 is now known as LordAzamath
14:03<yorick>oh noes
14:03<Sacro>yapf/yapf_ship.o:yapf_ship.cpp:(.text$_ZN16CYapfFollowShipTI16CYapfShip_TypesTI10CYapfShip313CFollowTrackTIL13TransportType2ELb0EE20CNodeList_HashTableTI14CYapfShipNodeTI20CYapfNodeKeyTrackDirELi16ELi20EEEE15ChooseShipTrackEP7Vehiclej13DiagDirection9TrackBits[CYapfFollowShipT<CYapfShip_TypesT<CYapfShip3, CFollowTrackT<(TransportType)2, false>, CNodeList_HashTableT<CYapfShipNodeT<CYapfNodeKeyTrackDir>, 16, 20> > >::ChooseShipTrack(Vehicle*, u
14:03<Gonozal_VIII>i was worried there
14:03<Gonozal_VIII>invasion and stuff
14:03<Sacro>it doesn't like `operator delete[](void*)
14:04-!-mikl [] has joined #openttd
14:04<Purno>I did reset engines, but I still can't build e-rails, while I should
14:04<Purno>(openttd 0.5.3)
14:04<yorick>try to restart
14:04<yorick>0.5.3 :o
14:05<LordAzamath>Purno: 0,5,3????
14:05<Gonozal_VIII>sure that there are electric engines available?
14:05<LordAzamath>, -> .
14:05<Gonozal_VIII>year and climate?
14:05<Purno>it's the only one which got pixel doubling, AFAIK
14:05<LordAzamath>Gonozal_VIII: You dislike .ee?
14:05<Purno>yes, the NS set got an EMU in 1924, current year is 1930
14:05<Purno>it's a scenario, but apparantly GRF info is stored in the scenario
14:05<Gonozal_VIII>i dislike invasions :P
14:06<Purno>meaning I gotta enable the GRFs after the game has started, right?
14:06<Gonozal_VIII>sometimes that doesn't work right
14:07<Gonozal_VIII>but for vehicles it usually did for me
14:07<Purno>so how do I enable these GRFs in this scneario?
14:07<Sacro>WHY WON'T IT BUILD >M
14:08*LordAzamath invades.. not
14:08-!-LordAzamath [] has left #openttd [Konversation terminated!]
14:09<Journy>ok im trying to complile Gonozal_patch_r12180
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14:13<Journy>BuildOTTD is so simple its confusing? why isnt it compiling the build and putting it in My OTTD builds? Does this work with vista... hmmm
14:13<Gonozal_VIII>nah, not vista
14:15<Prof_Frink>What's so hard about ./configure && make anyways?
14:15<Journy>as in not vista's fault? or it doesnt work with vista?
14:17<Gonozal_VIII>everything is vistas fault
14:17<Journy>lol almost sounds like bush's fault.
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14:23<LordAzamath>.ee attacks
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14:45<@peter1138>That was quite nice.
14:47-!-Journy [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
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14:59<Eddi|zuHause2><De_Ghosty> why are we transporting coal in the future? <- because oil runs out in 20-50 years, but coal runs out in 100-200 years
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15:00<Eddi|zuHause2><Journy> of course coal cares. <- you can convert coal into oil, they did that a lot in the 1940s
15:01<Slowpoke>they will do it again when oil ran out...
15:02<Slowpoke>no plane will fly with a coal engine
15:02<Slowpoke>brb inventing
15:07<Slowpoke>"It was, in practice, incapable of flight since it had insufficient power from its heavy steam engine to fly."
15:07<Eddi|zuHause2>hm... funny... civ4 doesn't repaint the window if it does not have focus (although it is only partially covered)
15:08<yorick>where does * in front of a C variable stand for?
15:08<Gonozal_VIII>read further down
15:08<Eddi|zuHause2>now the music OSDs stack up ;)
15:08<Gonozal_VIII>the 1848 thingy flew
15:08<Slowpoke>a few meters in a hangar
15:08<Gonozal_VIII>until it hit the wall
15:08<Eddi|zuHause2>Slowpoke: the first airplanes had similar problems
15:09<Slowpoke>yeah sure I know
15:09<Gonozal_VIII>it gradually rose until it reached the farther end of the room, striking a hole in the canvas placed to stop it.
15:10<Slowpoke>I just wanted to pount out that coal is not the best fuel to power a plane
15:10<Gonozal_VIII>nobody said it was
15:11<Slowpoke>and I didn't say somebody did ;)
15:15<stillunknown>yorick: It's a pointer.
15:16<stillunknown>(away now)
15:19<Eddi|zuHause2>technically, the * after the type ;)
15:24<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r12369 /trunk/src/ (settings.cpp train.h train_cmd.cpp): -Fix (r1681): reset train speed limits when _patches.realistic_acceleration changes
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15:25-!-mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ
15:27<Sacro>Bjarni: Welsh mountain rescue team make art discovery in snowdonia.
15:27<Sacro>They think it's a constable.
15:27<Sacro>wrong paste ><
15:28<yorick>away again
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15:32<Patrick`>peter1138: wider
15:35<@peter1138>:( )
15:37<@Bjarni>Sacro: why tell me?
15:38<@Bjarni>you want to trick me to give you my sperm or something?
15:38<Gonozal_VIII>yes, tell him that he doesn't have to use tricks just for that
15:38<@Bjarni>actually nomatter what he offers he can never get it
15:40<@Bjarni>now imagine what would happen if it's used to create children with my brain and Sacro's ethics
15:40<@Bjarni>sounds like a horror movie
15:41<@Bjarni>why would I go to a festival anyway?
15:42<Slowpoke>Ill start!
15:42<SmatZ>Slowpoke: sounds sick
15:43<@Bjarni>ANNOUNCEMENT: somebody named Slowpoke wants to host a page called
15:43<Slowpoke>children or sperm?
15:43<@Bjarni>or both
15:44<Digitalfox_>Why does strgen.exe come with the binary's of OpenTTD 0.6 betas? Needed for what?
15:44<@Bjarni>good question
15:44<Slowpoke>I will think about that later
15:44<@Bjarni>I don't think I added it to the OSX betas
15:45<Gonozal_VIII>just get some candy and park in front of a school
15:45<Digitalfox_>Well with Windows 32bit builds it comes
15:45<@Bjarni>Gonozal_VIII: sounds dangerous for whoever is doing that
15:46<Digitalfox_>The other builds i didn't test =0
15:48<@peter1138>I need less GRFs.
15:48<@peter1138>Start up takes way too long, heh...
15:50<+glx>too many paths where to search for grfs (including tar files)
15:50<@peter1138>No, just too many GRFs.
15:50<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12370 /trunk/src/network/network_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#1853]: Close language drop down when parent window is clicked/closed.
15:52<@peter1138>Hmm, 332 currently.
15:52<Digitalfox_>peter1138: You load 332 grf's at start? =0
15:52<Digitalfox_>That's a record ;)
15:53<+glx>but openttd opens 332 grfs
15:53<@peter1138>I just have 332 available.
15:53<@peter1138>It opens each to see what's there.
15:53<+glx>check for duplicates, ...
15:54<Digitalfox_>peter1138: And don't you find it a mess when some names aren't enough descriptive?
15:55<@peter1138>I hardly ever look
15:55<Digitalfox_>I don't have even half of that, but i find it sometimes hard because of names not really showing what it is :|
15:56<+glx>they have a description field
15:56<@peter1138>And a path/filename.
15:56<Digitalfox_>Yes but some don't have any extra info ( Old ones or unfinished versions )
15:56<+glx>don't use them then ;)
15:56<Digitalfox_>No newer versions :(
15:57<Digitalfox_>Offcourse i could use grfcodec and add the missing description.. but...
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16:00<Digitalfox_>One of the reasons I fully support OpenGFX, is that there is any real replacement for a lot of graphics.. Sure there are lot's of vehicles set's, some Houses and industries, bridges, roads, etc... But a lot of sprites just don't have any replacement.. But maybe I'm just bored of original graphics and want new ones..
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16:01<Digitalfox_>*there isn't
16:01<roobi>hi all
16:02<roobi>ive got a terraforming question
16:02<SmatZ>so, ask youe question
16:02<roobi>has someone a glue how I can lower all land by 1 in the scenario editor?
16:02<ln>a glue?
16:03<roobi>sooory clue I mean
16:03<planetmaker>roobi: Lower one corner and then use the level tool.
16:04<planetmaker>oh... or you just want to subtract one from every height - may it as it is?
16:04<roobi>yes, thats it!
16:04<Eddi|zuHause2>roobi: not easily
16:04<roobi>I don't want make plain land :)
16:05<Eddi|zuHause2>but why do you want to do that anyway?
16:05<roobi>yes. the reason is I have a good card for the scenario, but the import-funktion makes the "ground-level" too high
16:05<Eddi|zuHause2>roobi: the easiest way i imagine is to modify the source to change a command that it does that
16:06<roobi>huu ... I'm sorry, is there somewhere a guide how to do that?
16:07<roobi>Eddi .. ich sehe an Deinem Nick, daß Du deutsch sprichst, richtig?
16:08<Gonozal_VIII>english chan :P
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16:09<roobi>I know.. should I translate?
16:09<Eddi|zuHause2>by "card", do you mean a heightmap picture?
16:10<roobi>yes, I mean
16:10<Gonozal_VIII>you could change the colours in gimp
16:10<Gonozal_VIII>or other image editor...
16:10<Eddi|zuHause2>yeah, edit the palette (or the greyscale, depending on type of picture)
16:11<roobi>good idea... I'm going to try that
16:11<planetmaker>roobi: I'd open the image and subtract some gray values in a reasonable image manipulation prg
16:12<Tefad>convert to grascale
16:12*planetmaker is slower than Gonozal_VIII :)
16:12<Tefad>adjust contrast brightness gamma
16:12<Gonozal_VIII>not gamma
16:13<Gonozal_VIII>gamma isn't linear
16:13<Tefad>sometimes i use gamma for emphasis.
16:13<Gonozal_VIII>you could end up with different terrain with that
16:13<Tefad>slightly different
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16:13<Tefad>it changes the bands depending on how you palettize
16:14<Tefad>i tend to save a palette to use for ttd maps
16:14<Tefad>evenly spaced grayscale
16:14<planetmaker>subtract the lowest grayscale value and then rescale to 1 byte.
16:15<Tefad>sometimes the elevation contours just don't feel right to me
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16:20<roobi>... I'm still trying...
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16:33<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r12371 /trunk/src/window.cpp: -Fix [FS#1823]: do not let window hide behind the main toolbar after resizing the screen
16:35<yorick> <-- it finally works as it should now :)
16:36<roobi>I've got it!!
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16:37<roobi>I made greyscale and putted the brightscale down, so the land becomes flat!
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17:12<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r12372 /trunk/src/music/win32_m.cpp: -Fix: win32 music driver fails if path contains non-latin chars
17:12<Eddi|zuHause2>who invented these damn non-latin characters anyway :p
17:13<Prof_Frink>glx: So I couldn't install it in C:\jgames\openttd\ then?
17:13<Eddi|zuHause2>Prof_Frink: no, your comment is not funny...
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17:20<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r12373 /trunk/src/music/win32_m.cpp: -Fix [FS#1849]: win32 music driver fails if path is too long (128 chars is too much for mci it seems), so retry using the short path name (8.3 style) if available
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17:30<HMage>мямя. всем привет
17:31<Gonozal_VIII>what's with the russian stuff?
17:31<HMage>it's semi-accidental
17:31<+glx>I still don't understand the first word :)
17:32<Gonozal_VIII>those rs face the wrong direction...
17:32<+glx>it's miamia but I don't have it in my dictionnary
17:33<HMage>it's not in the dictionary :)
17:34<Gonozal_VIII>Mia Mia Jewels is a small company specialising in creating beautiful handcrafted glass jewellery
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17:36<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12374 /trunk/src/group_gui.cpp: -Fix (r11892): Don't close a dropmenu when clicking on a dropdown widget
17:36<Purno>waht does one need to run a dedicated server on a webserver?
17:38<@peter1138>Shell access.
17:38<@peter1138>Oh, and permission.
17:39<@peter1138>And another copy of TTD for the data files... probably...
17:44<Purno>that's all?
17:44<Ammlller>Purno: OpenTTD, Autopilot, Webconfigurator, OpenTTDlib and most important some guys to watch it.
17:45<Purno>ok thx
17:45<Ammlller>Purno: there are many NL-guys admin at #openttdcoop, they would like to help you too, I assume ;-)
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17:46<Slowpoke>is there some "sandbox"like server around? I mean some where nobody laughts at me when I fail hard and stuff ;)
17:46<Purno>haven't seen them replying in the topic yet. I asked Xeryus but he didn't know anyone who could host a server
17:46<Ammlller>oh, you also need a server?
17:47<Purno>I need a game hosted 24/7 :P
17:47<Purno>I'm a noob with this kinda stuff
17:47<Ammlller>[22:36] <Purno> waht does one need to run a dedicated server on a webserver? <-- indicates you have already a webserver :-)
17:48<Purno>Eh... yeah, for hosting a site... dunno if that's enough
17:48<Purno>basicly, it doesn't matter where it's hosted, as long as it's hosted :P
17:48<Ammlller>well, if you don't find one, you could have one at my server
17:49<Purno>a 24/7 hosted openttd game?
17:49<Ammlller>I guess, they aren't around yet
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17:51<Purno>I have no clue whatsoever what exactly is required and how it works :P
17:51<Ammlller>well, it require much CPU usage if you really fill the map
17:51<Ammlller>and for sure, when, PBS is there too
17:52<Purno>so it's gonna be a small map?
17:52<Ammlller>max should be 1024²
17:53<Ammlller>on coop, its 512² and about 1000 vehicels
17:53<Eddi|zuHause2>people should still be able to download the map with their home dsl
17:53<@peter1138>256x512 is a nice size
17:54<Ammlller>if you use something like webconfigurator, its easy to change the size from time to time without ssh
17:55<Ammlller>and the IRC bridge is also nice to watch the game, without running it self all the time
17:55<Purno>hmm... if we'd get your offer to have one at your server, would that include your help setting the stuff up?
17:57<Ammlller>yeah, but there are also other dutch guys who would like to help, I am sure.
17:57<Ammlller>its really easy...
17:58<Ammlller>Admins from coop have already access to my server
17:58<Purno>dunno what dutch guys to ask
17:58<Ammlller>do you need it now?
17:59<Purno>nah, once the Dutch Trainset is gonna be released
17:59<Purno>will take *at least* a few weeks
18:00<Ammlller>Well, then you have time, setting up a server needs about half an hour.
18:00<Purno>any idea what dutch guys to aks to help?
18:01<Purno>didn't know anyone who could help
18:01<Purno>he said
18:02<Ammlller>I thought about himself ;-)
18:02<Purno>well, I guess why he didn't say that himself when I asked...
18:04<Ammlller>Mike would be another one
18:04<+glx>I need a MSVC+TortoiseSVN user
18:04<Ammlller>thats XeryusTC too :-)
18:04<Purno>Mike or Mark? (or both, wasn't it a typo?)
18:04<Ammlller>type, yes Mark
18:04<Purno>I'll ask
18:05<Ammlller>he is framiliar with configuration of server
18:05<Ammlller>but new to linux
18:05<Ammlller>do you like to run nightlies?
18:05<Purno>I'll ask him
18:06<Purno>ehm... I don't update my openttd often
18:06<Purno>so it's usually stables and betas
18:07<Ammlller>and an other option is, when it will be run more stable. :-)
18:08<Sionide>that's a cooool idea!
18:08<Purno>is it free?
18:08<Sionide>if it works how i think it works
18:08<Ammlller>yes, but very buggy, as it states
18:09<Ammlller>and of course, really cool
18:10<Sionide>so that server has a script which runs a dedicated server requested by a user giving it what version to run etc?
18:10<Ammlller>yeah, you could also upload a save and play it there
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18:19<Ammlller>Purno: just ask some days before you need the server, if you still don't have other server or help...
18:19<Purno>will do, checking out now
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18:21<Ammlller>Purno: you should specially check NewGRF support...
18:21<Ammlller>sometimes, it works...
18:21<Purno>I got the server running now... but about newgrfs, it wants me to upload them...
18:22<Purno>that's not something I'd like to do to test an yet unrealeased grf :P
18:22<@peter1138>How else is it going to get the GRF?
18:23<Prof_Frink>mount an sshfs share back to your computer?
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18:26<Ammlller>Purno: use GRFs which are realeased already
18:26<Ammlller>just to try, if it works
18:27<Purno>finding out how to remove a server now...
18:27<Purno>can't find a link/button to that
18:27<Ammlller>impossible I guess
18:27<Purno>shame, I just started 3 :o
18:27<Ammlller>but you can stop them
18:27<Purno>since I got some errors and stuff
18:27<Purno>I stopped them
18:28<Ammlller>its very alpha... :P
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18:32<Purno>got it working
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18:43<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r12375 /trunk/projects/determineversion.vbs: -Fix [FS#1847]: revision detection failed to detect 64bit TortoiseSVN when ran from a 32bit MSVC on win64 system (Jafinto)
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19:15<SpComb>I actually used to play a game of OpenTTD with a friend of mine a couple weeks back
19:15<SpComb>some insane fiddling with the configuration was needed (defaults were wrong), but it did work
19:17<Ammller>SpComb: I had many issues with login and sessions at all
19:17<Ammller>almost every request ended with an error
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19:17<Ammller>but somehow saved too
19:17<SpComb>I fixed the one with every redirect giving you an error page
19:17<SpComb>I also changed the error page so it gives the full details including stack trace
19:18<SpComb>login still causes an AssertionError, I don't know how to fix that, but it doesn't actually stop you from logging in
19:20<SpComb>I also tried to move it over to my new server last week, but Pylons is silly and complains about some missing depedancy that doesn't, to the best of my knoewledge, exitst
19:20<SpComb>there's a package that goes under that name but as far as I can tell it works fine
19:20<Ammller>something with NewGRF didn't work
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19:20<Ammller>tried to setup a ECS game
19:22<SpComb>hmm... you'd need to get back to me with the full error page
19:23<Ammller>well, is the current version running now?
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19:23<SpComb>there are no seperate dev/test/prod versions, so yes
19:24<Ammller>also the dev preview of mapvewer was nice :-)
19:25<SpComb>that's still online
19:26<SpComb>although heh, it's been running the same savegame for ages, and I guess the network got stuck and the company went bankrupt
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19:46<Sacro>michi_cc: i keep getting trains stuck in a terminus station, they won't turn round D:
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19:56<HMage>ямям. всем спокойной ночи
19:57<Gonozal_VIII>strange russian stuff again...
19:57*HMage <--- strange
19:58<HMage>strange stranger strangled
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19:59<Ammller>good night HMage :-)
20:02<Tefad>well cryillic anyway
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20:04<Tefad>моя як на крыше, и она была объята пламенем. где находится туалет?
20:05<Sionide>actually, no
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20:11*Sacro shoots Tefad for beef
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20:16<+michi_cc>Sacro: give me a savegame if you think it's a bug and I'll look at it tomorrow
20:17<Sacro>michi_cc: you should take a look at peter1138's server, i've abused YAPP a lot ;)
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21:58<Eddi|zuHause>hmm... don't copy 3GB files with ntfs-3g
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---Logclosed Sun Mar 16 00:00:43 2008