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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-03-20

---Logopened Thu Mar 20 00:00:21 2008
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01:35<ln>gd mrnng!
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01:41<Rubidium>oo oi!
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03:37<Trond>Anyone noticed this one:
03:41<Patrick`>it's just a picture, there'[s nothing we can do (right?)
03:42<Trond>what you mean? I azume its a bug, and now its reported. Just wondered if anyone had experienced the same thing...
03:43<ln>you *azume*?
03:44<Gekz>ln: Ja
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03:44<Trond>yeah, since I have a few patches installed on this game, I couldnt know if its caused by one of those, right?
03:45<Trond>and in that case it isnt a OTTD bug
03:45<Trond>kindoff :D
03:52<Patrick`>yeah, try to reproduce it, then try to reproduce it without any patches or GRFs
03:54<Trond>I just did... and it didnt show up like that in 0.6.0.beta5, so I guess its one of the patches that bugs things up...
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04:05<Gekz>peter1138: do you still love me
04:06<@peter1138>Of course not.
04:06<Gekz>So that steamy night meant nothhing to you
04:08<@peter1138>Sure it did, but that wasn't you...
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05:48<keyweed_>good morning
05:49<Maedhros>morning Celestar
05:49<Celestar>what's new?
05:49<keyweed_>the american economy is crashing
05:50<Celestar>it has been for the past 6 months, hasn't it?
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05:51<keyweed_>yes. new is relative.
05:54<Celestar>smatz fixed 1841?
05:54<@DorpsGek>Celestar: Error: The command "bugs" is available in the OpenTTD and WT2 plugins. Please specify the plugin whose command you wish to call by using its name as a command before "bugs".
05:54<Celestar>@openttd bugs
05:54<@DorpsGek>Celestar: Open Bugs: 19; Not assigned: 13; Closed this week: 16; Opened this week: 10
05:55<Celestar>(_fractcoords_enter[dir] >> 4) <= didn't we decide to do divisions properly? ;)
05:57<Maedhros>ooh, only 3 of the 6 assigned bugs are Bjarni's ;)
06:02<Celestar>what is everyone's idea on the patch for 1793?
06:13*Celestar disagrees with Truelight on this one.
06:13<Celestar>what's peter1138'S opinion on this?
06:15<Noldo>well my motivation was to get away with not impletenting >> operator for the overflowsafe type template
06:16<Celestar>divisions should be done by the / operator, not the >> operator imho
06:21<Noldo>>> does make reading more difficult
06:21<blathijs>There was some functional difference between / and >> IIRC
06:21*Maedhros agrees with Celestar
06:21<blathijs>At least for signed values, but also for unsigned I think
06:22<Celestar>if we're accessing a bitfield, >> should be used. Thus we can clarify whether we're trying to access bits or actually do a division
06:26<blathijs>Hmm, I seem to remember wrong, gcc spits out the same code for >> and / using unsigned int and -O2
06:27<Noldo>truelight does have a point with the possible performance issue
06:28<Celestar>blathijs: I afaik gcc spits out the same code for >> and / for any ints and -O0
06:29<Celestar>unsigned int, sorry
06:30<blathijs>The code is subtly different without -O (which is -O0 I think?)
06:30<blathijs>ie, shrl vs shr and some difference in the use of registers and stack etc.
06:30<blathijs>and the unsigned part is critical in that statement, yes :-)
06:34<blathijs>Celestar: I've read 1793, now writing a comment
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06:37<Celestar>blathijs: ok
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06:44<blathijs>Hmm, firefox threw away my comment... Bugger
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06:52<Celestar>after Apollo 13:
06:53<Celestar>Aerospace Corporation, the builder of the LM, issued an invoice [13] for $312,421.24 to North American Rockwell, the builder of the CM module, for "towing" the crippled ship most of the way to the Moon and back.
06:53<Celestar>North American politely declined payment, citing that they had ferried Grumman LM's to the Moon on two previous occasions with no such reciprocal charges.
06:54<keyweed_>let's keep our kapitalism planet side please
06:54<Celestar>well. neither side regarded this as entirely serious.
06:54<Celestar>there was no payment and no lawsuit :P
06:54<keyweed_>we don't want to end up like the ferengi
06:54<Celestar>I think the Ferengi are better than we are.
06:54<Noldo>who we?
06:55<keyweed_>in a country where lawyers think you should warn your customers not to dry their dog in the microwave there is little room for humor.
06:55<Celestar>At least that have an open, clear and universal code of conduct.
06:55<Celestar>Noldo: we == terrans
06:55<Celestar>keyweed_: it wasn't like that in the 60s I think.
06:56<keyweed_>Celestar: erh ..good point, and erh.. i don't know.
06:56<Celestar>The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?
06:56<keyweed_>when exactly did the american justice system go haywire? it started out pretty okay.
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06:57<Celestar>keyweed_: I think it happened once people discovered they could make a shitload by acting stupid.
06:57<Celestar>keyweed_: honestly, if I were to discover that I could earn half a million bucks by spilling hot coffee over my pants, I'd probably do it.
06:57<keyweed_>so, people figured out they could aquire money which they have no right to by making a fool out of themselves....
06:57<Celestar>keyweed_: yeah.
06:58<keyweed_>i wonder how exactly that will effect 'survival of the fittest'
06:58<Celestar>not at all.
06:58<keyweed_>if the 'fittest' is the person who is able to win the most frivolous lawsuites, things might get interesting in a couple of hundred generations
06:59<Noldo>those people are just leaches
06:59<Celestar>nah it won't, because there won't be a couple of hundred generations left.
06:59<keyweed_>Noldo: i agree, but they have the law on their side
06:59<keyweed_>well, occasionally at least
06:59<Noldo>they have their ecological niche only when their host is in somehwt good health
06:59<Celestar>Noldo: good point.
07:00<keyweed_>noldo is right
07:00<Celestar>talking about leaches .. what's gotten into the Chinese? :S
07:00<keyweed_>power, wealth, olympics
07:00<Noldo>who are they leaching?
07:00<keyweed_>occupying is propably the better term
07:00<Celestar>yeah. according to a German newpaper (serious, well-regarded), Tibetian cavalry (!!!) has taken a Chinese town :P
07:01<Celestar>keyweed_: do you know this: ?
07:02<keyweed_>Celestar: can't see youtube from here :/
07:02<Celestar>keyweed_: remember that link!
07:02<Celestar>but that clip is for everyone here.
07:02<keyweed_>Celestar: stored in database
07:02<Celestar>keyweed_: ok :)
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07:07<@peter1138>Hmm, I missed some controversty!
07:07<Celestar>peter1138: you missed a youtube link :P
07:07<@peter1138>Yes, we should use / where division is meant, and >> where shifting is meant.
07:08<Celestar>peter1138: agree. Passed? :P
07:08<@peter1138>Also, direct & 0x0F? :o
07:08<Noldo>is there anyway to address the possible proformance problem truebrain was worried about?
07:09<Celestar>Noldo: there IS no performance problem. If someone decides by not dividing by a power of two, they MIGHT have a reason for doing so.
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07:09<@peter1138>_fractcoords should be changed.
07:10<Celestar>yeah. I have done so in custombridgeheads. We could backport the change.
07:10<@peter1138>In this case, neither / or >> is meant
07:10<Noldo>\o/ lot's of clean up patches to do
07:11<Celestar>we might want to backport some change of custombridgeheads (=
07:11*keyweed_ dreams of playing openttd
07:12<Celestar>peter1138: I quite agree to that diff (=
07:12<@peter1138>Also the v->x_pos & 0x0F should be done
07:12<Celestar>why are we casting anyway?
07:12<@peter1138>Because they're uints, probably.
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07:13<TheJosh>hey all
07:13<Celestar>hey TheJosh
07:13<Celestar>peter1138: methinks we shouldn't cast a lot in C++ but ok (=
07:14<@peter1138>Sometimes it's needed.
07:18<Celestar>hm .. custrombridgeheads is *slightly* out of date :(
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07:27<TheJosh>Celestar: hey
07:27<TheJosh>whats happening?
07:27<Celestar>not much.
07:27<Celestar>going to Berlin today
07:27<Celestar>or rather: flying
07:27<TheJosh>long weekend!
07:27<Celestar>kind of, yeah
07:27<TheJosh>4 days off! (swwt)
07:27<Celestar>but returning Saturday already
07:28<SpComb>Assembly Winter 2008 is this weekend
07:28<TheJosh>Im going to price sometime tomorrow (friday)
07:28<Celestar>it's just snowing here, so I hope the flight's not delayed
07:28<TheJosh>where is price i hear you say...
07:28<TheJosh>ive seen snow twice in my life
07:29<Celestar>where do you live?
07:29<TheJosh>Mount Barker, Adelaide Hills, South Australia
07:30<TheJosh>and we just had the longest heatwave in australian history...16 days of hotter than 35 degrees celcius
07:30<TheJosh>you? europe?
07:30<Celestar>can I move in?
07:30<Celestar>yeah Germany, Munich
07:30<Gonozal_VIII>there's snow outside... snow!
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07:30<Gonozal_VIII>stupid snow
07:31<SpComb>the snow here is melting today
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07:31<Gonozal_VIII>i don't think it's melting anytime soon here
07:31<Celestar>snow sucks
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07:33<Gonozal_VIII>there's snow in munich? that's strange
07:33<Gonozal_VIII>in the city?
07:33<Celestar>Gonozal_VIII: 15km north of the city. It'S snowing.
07:35<Ammler>we have nice snow here too :-)
07:36<Gonozal_VIII>you can have ours too...
07:36<Ammler>well, its really needed from dec to feb
07:37<Gonozal_VIII>if people want to go skiing so badly, there's always the glacier...
07:38<Ammler>galcier are shrinking :-)
07:39<Gonozal_VIII>on the huge german mountains^^
07:41<Gonozal_VIII>"aber hätten wa berge, dann wärn se höher!"
07:41<Celestar>skiing sucks
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07:41<Ammler>skiing is most fun sport
07:42<Ammler>well, austrians don't know, how it goes, but... ;-)
07:42<Gonozal_VIII>snoring is the most fun sport
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07:45*Celestar tries to find his way through Berlin's public transportation system
07:45<Gonozal_VIII>why would you want to go to berlin?
07:46<Celestar>I've got a World-Ranking competition tomorrow
07:46<Gonozal_VIII>in what?
07:46<Celestar>Ballroom dancing
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07:49<Celestar>I've got to get from a Point A (in Berlin) to a Point B in (Berlin). Both points are separated by 10km. There's no way to do this in less than one hour by public transport. This sucks
07:49<Gonozal_VIII>>1h for 10km, berlin sucks^^
07:50<Celestar>I know that Berlin sucks ;)
07:50<Celestar>been there, don't like it.
07:50<Gonozal_VIII>but with that it sucks even more ;-)
07:50<Celestar>plus they have a homosexual communistic mayor :P
07:52<Gonozal_VIII>rebuild the wall... but instead of through berlin, build it around
07:53<Noldo>Celestar: really?
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07:59<keyweed_>so, berlin sucks, but they have a good mayor?
08:00<Gonozal_VIII>you prefer gay communists over other people keyweed?
08:00<Celestar>well, at least he managed to get every business out of town, so that Berlin has an unemployment rate of 20%.
08:00<keyweed_>Gonozal_VIII: not all other, but a lot other
08:01<keyweed_>capitalism: evil intent, evil result. communism: good intent, evil result.
08:02<Celestar>I don't think the intent of capitalism is evil.
08:02<Celestar>it's realistic
08:02<Gonozal_VIII>reality is evil :-)
08:04<Noldo>keyweed_: what do you mean by capitalism?
08:05<keyweed_>Noldo: pretty much the dictionary meaning
08:05<keyweed_>Celestar: it isn't working, people are starving in the streets it the world wealthiest nation
08:05<keyweed_>*in the world
08:06<Noldo>so you are against private ownership?
08:07<keyweed_>pretty much irrelevant. people think they own stuff. they actually don't
08:07<Noldo>well that is the dictionary meaning
08:08<keyweed_>it's one of the aspects, but to keep it simple, no, i don't beleive in private ownership.
08:08<keyweed_>i don't think at exists, no matter how hard you try to define it by law
08:09<Gonozal_VIII>if everybody had the intention of improving other peoples lifes, everybody would be happy
08:09<Celestar>keyweed_: of course it isn't, but it's still working better than anything else we have tried up to now
08:09<Celestar>gotta go for a sec
08:09<Noldo>in what way is socialism better in this aspect?
08:09<keyweed_>Celestar: unfortunatly, you're right.
08:10<keyweed_>and so the lucky few do nothing and own more then some nations while others work hard and wither away in poverty
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08:11<Noldo>how does socialism stop that from happening?
08:11<@peter1138>Pom te pom
08:11<keyweed_>Noldo: in theory, by helping to poor upwards, limiting the wealth of the absurdly rich and control the distribution of wealth, labour and resources.
08:12<keyweed_>in practice, it doesn't
08:12<keyweed_>because a human with power takes what he wants without caring about anyone else
08:13<Celestar>you cannot strengethen the weak by weakening the strong. that's what I think
08:13<keyweed_>capitalism was designed by people who were already rich, socialism designed by those who had nothing.
08:14<keyweed_>good point. captilasim evolved and was formalised. socialis was purposely designed.
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08:16<Volley>can't help thinking of the phrase "defective by design" here :)
08:16*keyweed_ shurgs
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08:16<keyweed_>it's all defective
08:17<keyweed_>but i've grown quite adapt at crushing the weak, so capitalism keeps me alive.
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08:19<Noldo>I don't quite understand why private ownership automatically leads to crushing the weak
08:20<keyweed_>if we understould that we'd be a step closer to a solution.
08:20<keyweed_>but i'm not the person to ask that. since i don't really beleive anyone owns anything
08:21<Volley>my pc is mine! don't you dare to question that! :)
08:21<keyweed_>well, you might think that, do you run windows?
08:22<Volley>lol ... good point :)
08:22<Volley>(tough i'm not running it at the moment)
08:23<keyweed_>actually, economicly it's better to sell 'the right to use' then the ownership, companies are trying to move towards that now.
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08:46<nickthorley>hi all - just found the game - not played the original for years and used to love it. Can anyone advise where to buy the original so that I can get the files required for this linux version - not even sure if it will still be for sale?
08:46<Celestar>it'S getting difficult to buy the gae ...
08:47<Aerandir>im pretty sure you dont need to own the original
08:47<Aerandir>eventhough I do, I didnt need it last time I installed the game
08:47<keyweed_><whisper from the shadows> there are other ways to obtain said files</whisper>
08:47<nickthorley>oh ok i will try it and see - thanks
08:48<nickthorley>keyweed_: does the whisper have book marks somewhere?
08:48<@peter1138>You do need to own the original.
08:49<keyweed_>well. i might not point you in the general direction of something like peer 2 peer software
08:49<@peter1138>You need to own Windows to use it, too.
08:49<nickthorley>keyweed_ oh ok - thanks
08:49<nickthorley>keyweed_: i will try amazon then :)
08:52<Tefad>err what? i need to own windows to use ottd?
08:52<Ammler>@openttd grfs
08:52<@DorpsGek>Ammler: original grf files:
08:53<@DorpsGek>Ammler: newgrf files:
08:53<@peter1138>You need to own Windows to use Windows, too.
08:53<keyweed_>you can't own windows, but you can buy the right to use it
08:54<Tefad>the "license" part is understood
08:54<Tefad>it's hard to actually buy software.
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09:13<Richlv>hi. running 0.6.0 beta5, 'total cargo' for my trains shows, for example, '-115 tonnes of coal (300)'
09:13<Richlv>why is the first value negative ?
09:13<Richlv>it seems to be amount of cargo loaded, but being negative doesn't look too correct to me :)
09:14<Gonozal_VIII>don't go too far into the negative or your trains fly away
09:17<blathijs>Richlv: Can you reproduce that? Ie, does it happen all the time, or just happened once?
09:17<blathijs>Richlv: Does it happen on more than one train? Does it happen in more than one game?
09:18<Gonozal_VIII>did you refit the train or something?
09:18<Richlv>blathijs, happens for all trains
09:18<Richlv>Gonozal_VIII, no
09:18<Richlv>even '0' is shown with - infront
09:19<Gonozal_VIII>there's no -0 in binary :S
09:19<Richlv>this is my first game in a while, so i haven't tried it in several games yet :)
09:19<blathijs>Gonozal_VIII: There is, for floating point numbers :-p
09:19<blathijs>Richlv: It would be good to see if it also happen in a new game, with only a single train for example
09:19<Gonozal_VIII>but that's integer
09:20<@peter1138>Richlv: It's not a minus sign
09:20<blathijs>Richlv: In any case, I suggest you file a bug report at
09:20<@peter1138>It's a bullet point line, heh
09:20<@peter1138>- 115 tonnes of coal (300)
09:20<Richlv>peter1138, i had such an idea, but i compared it with other minus signs :)
09:20<blathijs>So it's a feature :-)
09:20<@peter1138>Richlv, well it's the same symbol ;)
09:20<Richlv>and it looks exactly the same to me
09:20<blathijs>(In reality, it's probably the same glyph)
09:20<Richlv>yeah :)
09:21<blathijs>Richlv: Never mind the bug report thing then :-)
09:21<@peter1138>I have no idea why it's there, but it is.
09:21<Richlv>it looks quite weird, though. probably should be removed or replaced with something better
09:21<Noldo>there is -0 also for some signed integer binary representations
09:22<Richlv>while i'm here, what does "transfer credits" mean in that tab ? :)
09:23<Gonozal_VIII>the profit from the part of the transfer chain before that vehicle
09:24<Richlv>profit for the same cargo that was previously transferred by other vehicle ?
09:24<Richlv>or what's 'transfer chain' :)
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09:25<Gonozal_VIII>you transfer stuff by using the transfer and unload order or just onload if the station doesn't accept the cargo
09:25<Gonozal_VIII>then it lies around at the station and waits to be picked up by another vehicle :-)
09:26<keyweed>or rots.
09:27<Gonozal_VIII>i don't know if transferred stuff does that...
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09:28<keyweed>i think it does. at least people do.
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10:03<Xels>hi there, i´ve got a question about the waiting time for trains at two way signals. i want that they wait for ever, until the signal turns green. i´ve tried to set the waiting time to 255 in the .cfg file, but it automaticly changes to 100, is there a way around it so the trains realy wait as long as the signal is red?
10:06<mrfrenzy>are you using the latest nightly?
10:06<Xels>no, i´m using 0.6.0 beta5
10:06<mrfrenzy>I read something about the train waiting being fixed in one of the latest versions
10:06<mrfrenzy>but it can also have been in the YAPP thread
10:07<Xels>ok, so i will try the nightly
10:08<mrfrenzy>I recommend you read about yapp also in the forum
10:08<mrfrenzy>aah yes
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10:09<Xels>k, i´ve searched a litlle bit for this problem in the forums, but there was only the thing about setting the time to 255, which didn´t work
10:11<Celestar>-rw-r--r-- 1 fischer fischer 1.1G 2008-03-20 15:11 .xsession-errors
10:12<Tefad>holy crap
10:12<Celestar>hm ...
10:12<Celestar>all totem-movie-player :P
10:12<Celestar>(totem-plugin-viewer:31417): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: invalid unclassed pointer in cast to `GtkWidget'
10:12<Celestar>(totem-plugin-viewer:31417): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: invalid unclassed pointer in cast to `GtkObject'
10:12<Celestar>2 GB worth of these messages :P
10:12<Tefad>yet another reason i use vanilla mplayer.
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10:17<Celestar>yeah :)
10:17<SmatZ>hello Celestar, FS#1841 fixed :)
10:17<Xels>i tried out the new nightly (r12383), but it also changes the time to 100 -_-
10:17<Tefad>why on earth do i have the music from Nights into Dreams stuck in my head : (
10:17<Celestar>SmatZ: I know. Congratz
10:17<SmatZ>thanks :)
10:17<Celestar>SmatZ: We've had some comments about it (=
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10:19<+glx>Xels: the .cfg is only valid for new games
10:20<SmatZ>Celestar I hope you didn't find any problems with it :) except typos :-x
10:21<Celestar>SmatZ: we usually get bits from a variable by using the GB() marco/template ^^
10:21<+glx>Xels: you need to type "patch <patch_name> = <value>" in the console if you want to modify it in a running game
10:21<Celestar>but ok guys.
10:21<Celestar>I'm off
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10:21<Celestar>cu Tuesday or something
10:21<SmatZ>Celestar yeah :-x I did copy+paste from VehicleEnter_Track
10:21<SmatZ>bye Celestar :)
10:22<Xels>@glx: it changes the time to 100 only when i start the game, i mean where i can load games, create scenarions ect. so even when i start a new game the time won´t be infinite, i guess
10:23<Xels>k i´ll try that glx
10:29<@peter1138>Vista crashed AGAIN
10:29<+glx>what were you doing?
10:30<+glx>installing VS2005?
10:30<@peter1138>Using IE7...
10:30<@peter1138>As I had been for a while.
10:30<@peter1138>IRQ error in USBPORT.SYS
10:30<Tefad>if a web browser has enough power to bring down an OS.. something is flawed very horribly
10:30<Tefad>hmm. sounds like a hardware/driver problem
10:32<Xels>thx glx, now they´re waiting all the time, i can´t say its infinite, i would have to sint here a longtime but it looks right ^^
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11:46*yorick 's firefox config files got emptied :( probably more, after hitting reset button instead of shutdown button yesterday
11:46<Gonozal_VIII>sucks to be you
11:47<ln>fortunately you have backups.
11:47<yorick>"Can't complete chkdisk"
11:48<Gonozal_VIII>because windoof is running...
11:49<yorick>yes, and the backups are...emptied
11:49<Gonozal_VIII>you keep your backups in the ram?
11:49<yorick>no, and I don't keep the config in the ram either, do I?
11:51<yorick>everything that has a backup file is empty, and the backup itself is aswell :(
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12:15<yorick>Gonozal_VIII: do you have an up-to-date version of YAPP?
12:17<yorick>ah, there it is
12:18<yorick>not, there is no YAPP with it :(
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12:19<Gonozal_VIII>told ya
12:19<yorick>lets highlights michi_cc
12:20<yorick>the follow_track was removed for some reason I can't understand yet
12:20<Gonozal_VIII>i know
12:23<yorick> <-- programmable waypoints O_O :)
12:33<@peter1138>Don't hold any hope for that particular incarnation.
12:33<Noldo>yorick: follow track was removed... What?
12:34<Gonozal_VIII>from trunk
12:34<Gonozal_VIII>that source file is gone
12:34<Richlv>yorick, looks interesting, but i didn't see "current load" :)
12:35<yorick>its not mine anyway
12:35<Gonozal_VIII>and the station entry in the screenshot sucks^^
12:37<yorick>@openttd commit 12252
12:37<@DorpsGek>yorick: Commit by KUDr :: r12252 /trunk (6 files in 3 dirs) (2008-02-25 15:09:22 UTC)
12:37<@DorpsGek>yorick: -Fix [FS#1801]: Broken FollowTrack_t related functions (thanks michi_cc).
12:37<@DorpsGek>yorick: -Fixed by removing FollowTrack_t structure and all related functions. Their purpose was to allow to call track followers from C code. They were:
12:37<@DorpsGek>yorick: 1. never used
12:37<@DorpsGek>yorick: 2. obsoleted by switching to C++
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12:57<@peter1138>ESPECIALLY FOR YOU!
12:57<yorick>oh, the reason ^^
13:04<Gonozal_VIII>bah, that's spanish or something
13:05<Gonozal_VIII>why do they subify anime in languages that nobody can understand...
13:06<+glx>I understand french subtitles
13:07<Gonozal_VIII>but i don't! i want english subtitles!
13:07<yorick>bah, french
13:08<Gonozal_VIII>and it was something that looked like spanish, not french
13:08<@Belugas>could be italian or portuguese ^_^
13:08<Gonozal_VIII>or italian... whatever
13:09<+glx>Gonozal_VIII: try to find an us team site
13:10<Gonozal_VIII>spanish, italian and french people should all be able to read english anyways
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13:17<+glx>french fansubbers usually use english subtitles to make french subtitles
13:18<+glx>there are rare japanese to french translators
13:18<yorick>why don't the french just read english?
13:19<Gonozal_VIII>that's what i was trying to say...
13:19<+glx>we are known to be very bad to learn foreign languages
13:20<Gonozal_VIII>when do you start learning english?
13:20<@Belugas>plus, it is all relevant to the need to speak or read another language
13:20<@Belugas>if it is not required, why do it?
13:20<yorick>because it is required
13:20<Gonozal_VIII>even more reason not to translate it
13:21<yorick>because of your failure to understand the need of learning english, we have to learn french? :p
13:21<+glx>no you need to search for english subtitles
13:22<Gonozal_VIII>couldn't find any for that... had to watch german...
13:22<@Belugas>change your DVD
13:23<+glx>find the team, and use irc to download
13:23<@Belugas>or whatever :)
13:23<+glx>most fansubs are available on irc
13:23<+glx>and only on irc
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13:24<Gonozal_VIII>i found almost everything on veoh and in some cases only low quality stuff on google or youtube..
13:25<Gonozal_VIII>i don't want to wait for the download before watching...
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13:26*glx prefer quality
13:26<+glx>I even get HD versions when available
13:27<Gonozal_VIII>the quality of 1mb/min stuff isn't that bad... my laptop can't display hd stuff anyways
13:29<mrfrenzy>have you tried coreavc gonozal_viii
13:29<mrfrenzy>works wonders for old pcs
13:30<Gonozal_VIII>what's that?
13:30<+glx>I play everything with vlc
13:30<mrfrenzy>codec for h264 that's very cpu efficient
13:30<Gonozal_VIII>i don't think that thing can multiply my screen pixels or something...
13:31<mrfrenzy>aah you mean the monitor is too bad ;)
13:32<Gonozal_VIII>cpu doesn't have problems with the decoding
13:32<+glx>hi-res video on low-res display is always better than low-res video on hi-res display ;)
13:32<@Belugas>ho... anime stuff...
13:32<@Belugas>thanks wiki :)
13:33<Gonozal_VIII>usually i have vlc too but i watch the veoh stuff inside veoh, that's less klickery
13:33<Gonozal_VIII>you didn't know what anime is? O_o
13:34<@Belugas>i had a good idea, but the fansub stuff is totally new to me
13:34<@Belugas>guess i'm too old for the stuff...
13:34<Gonozal_VIII>tip: never watch dubs
13:34<+glx>I have no problems with dubs
13:34<@Belugas>and i've never been a fan of japanese animations either so...
13:35<+glx>we have good editors here
13:35<+glx>the dubbing was worse 20 years ago
13:35<+glx>especially the one for "hokuto no ken"
13:36<Gonozal_VIII>but the japanese voices are a lot more kawaii
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14:34<henkie>hi, can i add newgrf to a multiplayer game?
14:35<henkie>because i am missing a food carriage :(
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14:39<Ammler>henkie: there are food carriage in default set
14:40<Ammler>but you can also add newgrfs to MP game of course... :)
14:40<+glx>but not directly
14:40<henkie>Ammler, i cannot seem to find it
14:40<henkie>also a running game? :(
14:40<Ammler>(just save the MP game local add the grf and load it up to the server
14:40<Ammler>and load that game
14:40<henkie>ah sweet
14:41<Gonozal_VIII>activating grfs in a running game is risky
14:41<+glx>bad things can happen yes
14:41<Ammler>well, not from default, I assume
14:41<+glx>Ammler: try adding trams with running buses
14:41<Gonozal_VIII>all kinds of things can happen
14:42<henkie>hmm, the newgrf seems to be disabled
14:42<Gonozal_VIII>like the wrong sprites for something... i had signals that looked like planes once :-)
14:42<henkie>is there a location to find good up to date newgrfs?
14:42<henkie>pref. one location :)
14:42<Ammler>!openttd grfs
14:42<Ammler>@openttd grfs
14:42<@DorpsGek>Ammler: original grf files:
14:42<@DorpsGek>Ammler: newgrf files:
14:44<henkie>hmm, lots of choice :)
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14:53<yorick>I think you should set some Due In's for bug reports
14:54<henkie>hmm, still no food
14:55<Gonozal_VIII>call for pizza or something
14:56<henkie>will they deliver by train?
14:56<Gonozal_VIII>only with the right newgrf :P
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14:57<MyNick1>hello ?
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14:58<yorick>you're asking hello to 105 users, are you afraid noone will answer?
14:58<yorick>don't worry, I wil :) What's your question?
14:58<MyNick1>not relly no
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14:59<@Belugas>he said he had a question??
14:59<MyNick1>:( how can i get my nick name to work
14:59<yorick>type /nick Tom
14:59<MyNick1>still not working
15:00<yorick>probably because someone else already took the name "Tom"
15:00-!-lolman [] has joined #openttd
15:00<yorick>try it with another name
15:00<MyNick1>i dont know
15:00<yorick>and /nick _Tom_
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15:01<yorick>that's fine either ^^
15:02<yorick> you have a question? And if so, what is your question?
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15:02<tomo>i have none, sorry, i was making sure this IRC stuff worked, first time user lol
15:02<+glx>yorick: don't annoy the noob :)
15:02<Gonozal_VIII>as you see, it doesn't work
15:03<Wezz6400>glx I'm sure calling him noob won't annoy him
15:03<yorick>:( why can't I annoy noobs? and then don't even have a question!
15:03<henkie>do i need something special for a food carriage? or am i just using the wrong combo of newgrfs?
15:03<tomo>i might be a noob to this IRC stuff, but i'm no noob when it comes to Openttd
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15:05<yorick>ooh...selfish noobs! henkie: I guess you need to load the trainset after the cargo set, or assure you're playing in a climate which has food and your train set supports food
15:06<Gonozal_VIII>or tell the people to eat something else instead... paper doesn't taste too bad
15:08<Wezz6400>Gonozal_VIII how do you know that/
15:09<Gonozal_VIII>you never ate paper?
15:09<Gonozal_VIII>you should!
15:09<yorick>yes, it tastes like...err...paper!
15:10<yorick>a bit dry, actually
15:10<Wezz6400>hell no!
15:10<Gonozal_VIII>but you shouldn't try used toilet paper
15:10<yorick>that's the more wet thing
15:11<yorick>and it doesn't taste as nice aswell
15:11<Wezz6400>you guys are gross
15:11-!-tomo is now known as ooo4tom
15:11<yorick>but I only tried eatable paper
15:11<Gonozal_VIII>and that from a person that never ate paper...
15:12<Gonozal_VIII>shame on you
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15:12<yorick>shhhhhh...shhh for the non-believer!
15:14<Wezz6400>get it off, get it off!
15:14<Gonozal_VIII>you can also write the name of any food you want on some paper and eat that!
15:14<@Belugas>eating paper... people are really lazy...
15:14<@Belugas>or not knowing what more to do to impress the neightboroud...
15:14<yorick>they've even invented paper which taste like pizza
15:15<Gonozal_VIII>and pizza that tastes like paper
15:15<yorick>no that's p-
15:15<ooo4tom>what about rice paper ? does that count
15:15<@Belugas>so... our new IRC tomo is no more than ooo4Tom from the forums...
15:15<@Belugas>well, welcome :)
15:15<Gonozal_VIII>no more than?^^
15:15<@Belugas>no less?
15:16<@Belugas>no less would have been better, i guess
15:16<Gonozal_VIII>but more is bad^^
15:18<@Belugas>at least, I did welcomed our new guess :P
15:18<Gonozal_VIII>you should know your own language ;-)
15:18<@Belugas>i'm a french speaking one!
15:18<@Belugas>mother tongue etc...
15:19<Gonozal_VIII>english is also official language there, right?
15:19<@Belugas>so, it's not english is not my language
15:19<yorick>I'm a dutch speaking one!
15:19<yorick>Gonozal_VIII: who bended your mind in that direction?
15:19<@Belugas>both french and english are the official ones
15:20<Gonozal_VIII>then what of what i wrote is "nope"?
15:20<@Belugas>[15:18] <Gonozal_VIII> english is also official language there, right? <--- that
15:20<@Belugas>[15:19] <@Belugas> both french and english are the official ones
15:20<Gonozal_VIII>also as in besides french
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15:29<Ammler>yey, cool done!
15:29<Ammler>trains drive backwards
15:29<Gonozal_VIII>without an engine in front?
15:30<Ammler>hmm, no idea, I added a "cab control car"
15:31<Gonozal_VIII>all the trains on my line have those
15:32<Gonozal_VIII>wendezuggarnitur... or something like that
15:33<Ammler>check Canadian set
15:33<Ammler>it has some trains supporting that
15:33<Ammler>no idea, if there is another set
15:33<Eddi|zuHause2>you must have really bad resolution if that is the max you can get ;)
15:34<Eddi|zuHause2>nevermind ;)
15:34<ln>Gonozal_VIII: English channel.
15:34<Gonozal_VIII>i don't know the english word for that :P
15:34<Gonozal_VIII>i wasn't even sure if it was the right german word
15:35<ln>Gonozal_VIII: i don't either...
15:35<yorick>peter1138: remember when I said something about cpu usage of 32bpp blitter, the problem appears to be localized to 32bpp-anim
15:35<Eddi|zuHause2>what i always wondered about... why it is called "Wendezug" when it does not "wendet"
15:35<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm that's a good point
15:36<yorick>and what does that mean exactly?
15:36<Gonozal_VIII>turn around
15:37<Ammler>check the signals for prove
15:37<yorick>if I disable palette animation, 32bpp works fine, enabled, it takes a hel of a lot of CPU usage, just like it redraws anything
15:37<Gonozal_VIII>those wagons look somewhat strange...
15:37<Ammler>well, bilevel
15:38<Gonozal_VIII>egg shaped..
15:38<Gonozal_VIII>easter train
15:38<Eddi|zuHause2>well... it IS easter ;)
15:40<yorick>Ammler: pause, press reverse, press ignore signals a couple of times, et presto!
15:41<Gonozal_VIII>why pause?
15:42<Ammler>then its already known?
15:42<Ammler>doesn't need bugreport...
15:43<yorick>if you press ignore can expect train to drive agains signals
15:43<Gonozal_VIII>that's the point...
15:47<Ammler>yorick: as I did that, my client broke
15:47<Ammler>I thought, you mean that
15:48<Gonozal_VIII>strange, i forced trains through a lot of signals without breaking the game
15:48<yorick>actually, I didn't
15:48<yorick>not backwards, did you?
15:48<Gonozal_VIII>trains don't go backwards...
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15:49<Ammler> ./bin/openttd
15:49<Ammler>openttd: /home/marcel/bin/ottd/trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp:3155: void TrainController(Vehicle*, Vehicle*, bool): Assertion `chosen_track == TRACK_BIT_X || chosen_track == TRACK_BIT_Y || chosen_track == TRACK_BIT_UPPER || chosen_track == TRACK_BIT_LOWER || chosen_track == TRACK_BIT_LEFT || chosen_track == TRACK_BIT_RIGHT' failed.
15:49<yorick>hey, SmatZ knows that assertion!
15:49<Gonozal_VIII>there are other trackbits than those?
15:49<Ammler>that happens, as I pushed many times reverse
15:49<yorick>yes, TRACK_BIT_INVALID
15:50<Gonozal_VIII>how the hell would it choose that
15:50<yorick>that happens, as I pushed many times reverse
15:50<Eddi|zuHause2>Gonozal_VIII: there are combinations of trackbits
15:50<Eddi|zuHause2>the assert says "exactl one trackbit is left"
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15:51<yorick>Ammler: let me guess, the train has different wagon sizes and is partially in depot?
15:51<Noldo>please tell me what is happening here:
15:51<Ammler>its on same part as I made the screen
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15:52<yorick>hmm...just a warning
15:52<Gonozal_VIII>but a always false comparison seems to be bad
15:53<Noldo>that is true, but I still want to know
15:53<Noldo>Gonozal_VIII: it doesn't matter that much, it's in the debug functions
15:53-!-SmatZ [] has joined #openttd
15:53<yorick>SmatZ: check the logs
15:54<yorick>ammler has encountered the Assertion `chosen_track == TRACK_BIT_X || chosen_track == TRACK_BIT_Y || chosen_track == TRACK_BIT_UPPER || chosen_track == TRACK_BIT_LOWER || chosen_track == TRACK_BIT_LEFT || chosen_track == TRACK_BIT_RIGHT' failed. assertion
15:54<Ammler>SmatZ: I reversed a "push-pull" train some times
15:55<SmatZ>Ammler: can you send me the savegame?
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15:55<Ammler>SmatZ: try to rebuild, because of the assert; i have none
15:55<Ammler>maybe a autosave, let me look
15:56<SmatZ>would be useful
15:56<SmatZ>I did many checks
15:56<Ammler>is there an other trainset with push-pull support?
15:57<Ammler>(then canadian set)
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15:59<SmatZ>Ammler: I don't know
15:59<Ammler>was a accident
15:59<Ammler>can't reproduce
16:00<SmatZ>Ammler: was the train leaving a depot or something unusual?
16:01<Ammler>it was running in a loop
16:01<Ammler>like that screen:
16:02<SmatZ>did you reverse it while it wasn't moving?
16:02<Ammler>i klicked many times
16:02<Ammler>and then it seems like one waggon lost the train
16:03<Ammler>and after some secs the game broke
16:03<yorick>again invisible wagons
16:03<Ammler>not invisibe
16:03<SmatZ>I don't think I touched this code
16:03<Ammler>just a cap between train and last waggon
16:04<Ammler>last waggon was that special pull-push waggon
16:04<SmatZ>Ammler: are you able to build exactly the same consist as was the one that broke?
16:04<Ammler>thats what I meant, not able to reproduce it
16:04<+glx><Ammler> is there an other trainset with push-pull support? <-- ukrs for some combo
16:05<Ammler>glx: thanks
16:05<+glx>and push-pull is just a display effect
16:05<+glx>internally the train really reversed
16:06<Ammler>oh so you should look to have same looking waggons
16:06<+glx>so your problem is probably more general
16:06<Ammler>well, I have not a problem :-)
16:06<Ammler>I love that effect
16:06<+glx>assert is not a problem?
16:06<Ammler>the assert isn't reproduceable
16:06<SmatZ>Ammler: you were playing with Canadian Trainset v0.3c ?
16:07<SmatZ>ok :)
16:08<Ammler>just a notice, Canadian set and UKRS isn't changeable on running game :-)
16:08<+glx>of course
16:09<+glx>the red warning is there for no reason ;)
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16:09<Ammler>red warning?
16:09<SmatZ>interesing, I get artifacts while running Canadian set
16:10<Gonozal_VIII>alien artifacts?
16:10<Ammler>ah, maybe the first time I read that red box :-)
16:10<Gonozal_VIII>those can be dangerous!
16:11<Ammler>how do I see, which engine of UKRS is push-pull?
16:13<Ammler>or in other words, why is not every engine push&pull?
16:13<+glx>you need a breaking car
16:14<Gonozal_VIII>because most trains don't drive backwards
16:14<Ammler>glx: hmm, or you would need to return the train with a sideline or something like that
16:15<Ammler>in canadian set the train drives packwards only about 10 km/h
16:15<Gonozal_VIII>ah ic
16:18<SmatZ>Ammler: I think I didn't break it, all engines and wagons that are able to push/pull I could find have length 8
16:19<Ammler>i never said, you broke it
16:19<SmatZ>Ammler: I was afraid I did :)
16:19<Ammler>I just did, what yorick said and posted the assert here
16:19<Ammler>but not able to reproduce anyway
16:19<yorick>did I say something?
16:20<mrfrenzy>I have found that it's easy to create asserts if you mix grfs randomly
16:20<Ammler>oh, I also had ECS loaded
16:20<SmatZ>21:51:50 < Noldo> please tell me what is happening here:
16:20<SmatZ>maybe compilerbug
16:20<SmatZ>gcc 4.3 doesn't issue this warning anyme
16:21<+glx>Ammler: in ukrs you can try 0.6.0 tank engine with a brake van
16:21<Gonozal_VIII>yay, a tank
16:22<yorick>Tomas The Tank Engine Set!
16:22<+glx>but don't mix wagon types else it looks ugly ;)
16:23<Sacro>yorick: is that still going?
16:23<yorick>not that I know of
16:25<Ammler> <-- with smoke, now you can believe me :-)
16:26<Gonozal_VIII>i will never believe you!!
16:26<+glx>Ammler: var FE bit 8 ;)
16:26<ln>does OTTD support off-road vehicles, in theory?
16:26<Gonozal_VIII>and ships
16:26<ln>you know i didn't mean that.
16:26<yorick>ln: no
16:26<Gonozal_VIII>it could work
16:27<yorick>unless you mean planes or ships
16:27<yorick>but it would be very pathfinder-intensive
16:27<ln>yorick: and you are familiar with how many per cent of the code?
16:27<Gonozal_VIII>if you see every open tile as a full road tile..
16:27<yorick>lets say 0.2%, ln
16:28<Gonozal_VIII>but i guess that would be worse than ship yapf
16:28<Ammler>oh, changing back from ukrs->canset works
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16:29<yorick>welcome back
16:29<ooo4tom>thanks :)
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16:32<Ammler>glx: do you know that X10 effect from TTDPatch?
16:32<Ammler>it drives very slow backwards
16:33<+glx>it does in ottd
16:33<+glx>128km/h forward, 32km/h backward
16:35<Ammler>it works
16:36<SmatZ>yay, yay, OTTD is great, isn't it? :-)
16:40<Ammler>well, you support know that GRF Feature, but wouldn't it be "wiser" to make it other way?
16:41<Ammler>like don't let trains reverse at all?
16:42<Ammler>only those, which have such a break waggon or control cab
16:42<Ammler>(not reversing, just let them drive "backwards")
16:43<Gonozal_VIII>negative speed
16:50<Alberth>hmm, I have a train with battery wagons in a depot, and am trying to pick up wagons and dump then one line lower onto the first wagon I dropped there, but it doesn't work. Dumping on the second, third, etc wagon does work, it seems
16:51<Gonozal_VIII>i think that battery thingy isn
16:51<Gonozal_VIII>'t supposed to pull stuff
16:52<Gonozal_VIII>or something like that...
16:52<Alberth>the first wagon is directly below the first wagon still after the locomotive (ie I am not trying to put it under the locomotive)
16:53<Gonozal_VIII>i can't really understand... screenshot!
16:53<Alberth>where should I put it?
16:54<Gonozal_VIII>some image hoster, doesn't matter
16:55<Alberth>any recommendations? (I never post images online)
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16:56<Prof_Frink>Alberth: Do you have an account on PM yourself and attach the image.
16:57<ooo4tom>photobucket, imageshack
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17:04<Alberth>Prof_Frink: Done, and now?
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17:05<Prof_Frink>right click, copy image location, paste here
17:09<Alberth>talk about giving away private data :)
17:09<Alberth>red wagon I am trying to drop here, but it doesn't work
17:09<Alberth>(cursor is still on 1st wagon)
17:10<Alberth>Prof_Frink: tnx
17:10<Alberth>maybe wagon is a bit too low in the pic
17:11<Gonozal_VIII>you can put it at the end of the wagon line
17:11<Gonozal_VIII>you can't sort wagons without an engine
17:13<Alberth>I am not sorting, just want to drop all wagons one line lower (I needed different wagons and didn't want to sell these)
17:13<Alberth>weird thing is that it works when dropping on non-first wagon
17:13<Gonozal_VIII>ok, now i see you can drop it after every other
17:14<Gonozal_VIII>that's strange indeed
17:14<Alberth>looks like a bug :)
17:15<Gonozal_VIII>it doesn't put it after the wagon you drop on but before it
17:15<Gonozal_VIII>even if you drop it on the last pixel
17:16<Alberth>hmm, that may explain the problem
17:16<Gonozal_VIII>why did i never notice that :S
17:16<Alberth>nobody moves 7 times 1 wagon, maybe?
17:18<Alberth>or with a locomotive it does work?
17:19<Gonozal_VIII>it works with wagons too, it's just a little strange
17:23<Eddi|zuHause2>Alberth: suggestion, hold ctrl while dragging a wagon moves all wagons behind it, too
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17:24<Alberth>Wow, another use of the magic ctl key.... tnx Eddi
17:26<Prof_Frink>Pfft, ctrl is not magic. SysRq is magic.
17:27<Dominik>Alberth: i'd suggest reading this
17:29<Alberth>Prof_Frink: and nicely documented in Wikipedia (can you imagine that in encyclopedia brittanica? :) )
17:30<Alberth>Dominik: tnx, I was wondering whether something like that existed (you must have read my mind).
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18:14<nick_>hi all - can anyone help me where the speed of the game is located - its going stupidly quick
18:14<Gonozal_VIII>only options are paused, normal speed or as fast as the cpu can
18:15<nick_>it goes that quick its hard to keep up with
18:15<nick_>i thought on an older version i had you could adjust how quick time went
18:15<Gonozal_VIII>>> button in the top bar
18:15<Gonozal_VIII>deactivate that ;-)
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19:21<CIA-1>OpenTTD: miham * r12387 /trunk/src/lang/ (6 files): (log message trimmed)
19:21<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2008-03-21 00:20:05
19:21<CIA-1>OpenTTD: german - 1 fixed by moewe2 (1)
19:21<CIA-1>OpenTTD: icelandic - 346 fixed by scrooge (346)
19:21<CIA-1>OpenTTD: korean - 2 fixed by darkttd (2)
19:21<CIA-1>OpenTTD: portuguese - 6 fixed by nars (6)
19:21<CIA-1>OpenTTD: russian - 15 fixed by Smoky555 (15)
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21:36<Gonozal_VIII>nobody here
21:36<fjb>I see
21:39<Gonozal_VIII>you're not here either
21:39<fjb>Me? I'm never here.
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22:07<Tobin>Hey, hey, hey.
22:08<Gonozal_VIII>still nobody here
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---Logclosed Fri Mar 21 00:00:24 2008