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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-03-29

---Logopened Sat Mar 29 00:00:05 2008
00:00<Dr_Jekyll>with cygwin i can build such version? if yes i will have a look for it...
00:01<Dr_Jekyll> iss will be slowing down the next few hours, while i'm searching how to do what i want to do ;)
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00:21<Dr_Jekyll>hm...seems to work until cygwin is installed...
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00:39<Dr_Jekyll>i've overwritten the svn://... link in bottd with file:///d:/path to the source of chrisin...and it seems to do anything...
00:42<Dr_Jekyll>'s still running...pls don't tell me that this can't work
01:32<DaleStan>You don't use BOTTD. You use ./configure && make .
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02:34<Eddi|zuHause2>BOTTD already sets up a mingw build system
02:34<Eddi|zuHause2>you just can reuse that
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03:29<Forked>thats pretty cool :)
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04:16<Eddi|zuHause2>(sorry, i don't know a suitible translation of that word)
04:18<Gekz>Eddi|zuHause2: crass perhaps?
04:20<Eddi|zuHause2>does not correctly reflect the meaning
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06:12<Wolf01>Is possible to have a flat bed wagon to carry steel with the ECS vectors? I'm trying with UKRS and/or cargoset, but I can't find a suitable wagon to carry steel (only goods wagons and mineral wagons refittable to steel)... and flat bed wagons can carry tourists -_-'''
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06:24<Patrick`>is this some sort of system that says "this cargo can go in a hopper, this cargo can go in a truck" so grain/coal and livestock/goods take the same wagon type (for example) ?
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06:28<Wolf01>It might be interesting... you provide only the wagons, and the cargo system decides what each wagon type can carry
06:32<Eddi|zuHause2>Patrick`: technically, there is a system that says "this cargo is bulk cargo", and "this wagon can carry all bulk cargos"
06:33<Eddi|zuHause2>the question is, is this implemented correctly in all grfs?
06:33<Eddi|zuHause2>Wolf01: you can try a cargo translation table like the one in the DBSetXL ECS extension
06:34<Eddi|zuHause2>it's a bitmask that says for each wagon which cargo it can carry
06:35<Wolf01>can the UKRS plugin do that?
06:35<Eddi|zuHause2>Wolf01: most likely, the UKRS wagons are designed to use the PBI cargos, not the ECS cargos
06:35<Eddi|zuHause2>the structure of the dbxl_ecs.grf is not hard to understand
06:36<@peter1138>ECS is... dodgy
06:36<Wolf01>uhm, so I must use the DBset for ECS
06:36<@peter1138>tourists are passengers & express classes
06:36<@peter1138>express is for freight
06:36<Gekz>tourists are freight
06:36<Gekz>cattle class
06:36<Eddi|zuHause2>yes, like cattle
06:36<Gekz>get in your boxes jews!
06:37<Gekz>that was too neo-nazi.
06:37<Eddi|zuHause2>way beyond the edge...
06:37<ln>way too
06:37<Gekz>I live for reactions.
06:43<Wolf01>seem that yesterday was Rubidium's patch galore day
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06:51<Wolf01>uh, another thing i can't change is the snowline height... it's always at sea level o_O
06:53<Wolf01>ah that's variable
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07:05<Osai>its a LA
07:05<LordAzamath[birthday]>yes it is
07:06<LordAzamath[birthday]>and it has birthday today
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07:26<Mirrakor>This may sound like a stupid question, but I'm new to this game, can my transport system let a city grow?
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07:29<Alberth>I like to believe so, but I have never checked it in the code
07:35<planetmaker>^^ I'm sure, Rubidiium has done so :D
07:35<planetmaker>happy birthday, LA :)
07:36<Alberth>You're too late already, he must be busy unpacking presents
07:38<planetmaker>probably :P
07:38<Mirrakor>Rubidium: any special things to know about that?
07:39<planetmaker>Mirrakor: mostly a passenger (=PAX) transport will have a city grow
07:39<planetmaker>It doesn't matter how far.
07:39<planetmaker>Delivery of goods helps, too, but not as much as passengers
07:39<planetmaker>Cities in desert need water, or nothing will happen
07:39<planetmaker>Cities in snow need food or nothing will happen
07:40<planetmaker>I'm not sure, but probably food in tropical climate is available and will help, too
07:40<planetmaker>in arctic food helps, too
07:40<planetmaker>Don't ask me about toyland, though :P
07:41<Mirrakor>toyland's cool - btw. is there a way to reduce the volume of the sound?
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07:41<planetmaker>You've got in the icon bar an icon with two notes on it. Click it and adjust :)
07:42<planetmaker>it's on the very right side of it
07:42<Patrick`>has anyone done actual beta-or-better work on more complex industries?
07:42<Mirrakor>oh, of course - I just looked for it in the startup dialog
07:42<Patrick`>the current layout is a bit ... simple
07:43<planetmaker>Patrick`: what's "more complex"? Do you know the ECS grf package?
07:46<planetmaker>Mirrakor: it happened to be bothered by that a long time, too - and completely turned off sound of this comp. Only found out recently :)
07:47<Patrick`>planetmaker: i do now, ty
07:48<planetmaker>Patrick`: hm, okay. If that isn't complex enough, there's nothing more complex IIRC
07:48<planetmaker>But being beta doesn't make it not working. Actually it works quite well.
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07:49<Patrick`>looks cool
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07:50<planetmaker>I prefer to use not all modules of ECS at one time though. It makes the map too crowded for my taste.
07:50<planetmaker>And one has to pay attention to use a proper train set which comes with an ECS extension like the DB set, the NARS or -IIRC - the UKRS.
07:51<Mirrakor>in the tutorial there seems to be many different kinds of signals.. but I only see one in the game..?
07:51<planetmaker>(or rather install both, trainset and its ECS extension set)
07:51<Alberth>Mirrakor: Select signal, hold CTL, click at existing signal
07:52<@peter1138>or enable signal gui
07:52<planetmaker>Mirrakor: you may look up pre-signals.
07:52<@peter1138>speaking of which
07:53<Mirrakor>would you place signals along the whole way or just before a crossing?
07:53<Alberth>peter1138: Interesting, how does one do that?
07:53<Patrick`>does ECS introduce a lot of ugly-looking new industries or does it recycle the original sprites?
07:54<@peter1138>Patrick`: ugly new
07:54<@peter1138>(PBI introduces beautiful new)
07:54<Alberth>Mirrakor: Between blocks :) there are a lot of users that place signals every n tiles (4 or so). OpenTTD makes that also quite easy
07:54<Patrick`>but PBI's in alpha, I'll guess
07:54<@peter1138>(some's recycled)
07:54<@peter1138>PBI's fully working
07:55<Alberth>Mirrakor: I tend to prefer 'real' blocks of 10-20 tiles
07:55<Mirrakor>Alberth: and how do I enable the signal GUI?
07:56<@peter1138>it's hidden under a patch setting somewhere
07:56<@peter1138>construction, probably
07:57<Patrick`>mmm, looks good
07:57<@peter1138>oh, and not in 0.5.3 or before
07:58<Mirrakor>ah and in the signal GUI I can change the "block size" ?
08:01<Alberth>(about signal GUI): This feature is in the MiniIN only. (
08:02<Rubidium>Alberth: it's a good case of wiki not-being up-to-date
08:02<Mirrakor>oh boy, this is far more complexe than I thought :D
08:02<Alberth>We intend to keep you busy for a long time :)
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08:03<Mirrakor>I see, I see - but some kind of ingame tutorial would be a nice idea :D
08:04<@peter1138>Not happening, heh
08:04<Mirrakor>uh, a track design question :D atm I've got some sort of L track (I tried to do two long rails), but it be more efficient it I instead would make a \ form?
08:05<Alberth>Everything is possible if you submit a patch, isn't it? :)
08:06<Wolf01>mmh idea: a tool to uniform the land but wich cuts the terrain below, or above a certain level (if below it fills the hole), but not the two at the same time like the level land tool
08:07<Alberth>Rubidium: Could you plz tell me how to enable the signal GUI? I still use the CTL key, and it's kind of a hassle
08:08<Mirrakor>^^ it's a picture, it seems we(or I) would have to consider the terrain height difference too
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08:10<aleex>what is PBI?
08:10<Alberth>Mirrakor: In general, we prefer .png files for screen-shots (OpenTTD can do this). Also I'd simply buy 2 depots, one for each station, and have a more straight line.
08:10<yorick>Pikkas Basic Industries?
08:10<aleex>that means what?
08:11<yorick>a newindustries grf
08:11<aleex>ah ;)
08:11<Mirrakor>Alberth: indeed, I prefer them too, but it seems some people (mostly microsoft victims) have troubles seeing those pictures ;)
08:11<Alberth>Mirrakor: and a longer station may be useful too :)
08:12<Mirrakor>Alberth: what's a longer station used for?
08:12<Mirrakor>it can unloade at once?
08:13<@peter1138>you can only fit a very short train there
08:13<Alberth>longer trains of course
08:13<Mirrakor>but my 3 wagon train doesn't seem to have a problem with that station.. except it seems it loads/unloads rather slow
08:14<Mirrakor>ok, good to know :)
08:14<Mirrakor>Can I expand those stations or do I've to remove them and place a new one?
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08:15<Alberth>If you replace quickly enough, the new station keeps the old name
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08:15<Mirrakor>to I've to remove it and quickly build a new one at the same place?
08:16<@peter1138>you can expand then
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08:24<Mirrakor>uff.. I should have build a busstop first.. D
08:26<Mirrakor>the tutorial recommend sending the train into the train depo after a completed task - why?
08:29<planetmaker>Mirrakor: probably to service it and thus get up its reliability back up to its maximum.
08:30<planetmaker>The default is to play with break downs and an unserviced train is bound to breakdown very often
08:35<Mirrakor>a train always waits 'till he's fully loaded?
08:37<planetmaker>Mirrakor: if you set the orders to "load" then it will. Otherwise it will pick up as much as there is or until it's full - whatever comes earlier
08:37<Mirrakor>good to know, thanks :)
08:38<Mirrakor>and now it says there's mail to pick up.. but I'm not sure where it would be delivered - to the next city?
08:38<planetmaker>Normally it's a good choice to use the "load" order
08:38<planetmaker>Mirrakor: yes. You can click on a station and it will tell you what it accepts
08:38<Mirrakor>so accept stands for both in and out?
08:38<planetmaker>it will even tell you while placing.
08:38<planetmaker>Mirrakor: accepts stands for exactly that: accepts.
08:39<planetmaker>What a station provides isn't written anywherre - so far
08:39<Mirrakor>so if I've got a station where it says "accept: mail", but my other two stations doesn't accept mails it would make no sense loading them in the train?
08:39<planetmaker>But a town produces passengers and mail and the primary industries produce their product
08:40<planetmaker>a station which accepts mail also provides. The same for passengers
08:40<planetmaker>Different for all cargo
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08:41<planetmaker>If you've got only one station which accepts mail, there's no point for a mail train: you cannot deliver it anywhere
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08:42<Mirrakor>answers my question perfectly :)
08:42<Mirrakor>May I ask you a signal question?
08:44<Alberth>you can always try
08:45<Mirrakor> I've read the whole signal wiki entry - but I'm still unsure which signals I'd place here
08:45<Mirrakor>I think I should place a signal in front of the train stations and before the crossing
08:47<Alberth>what are you trying to achieve?
08:47<Mirrakor>two trains on the same network - not crashing - minimal delay :D
08:48<Mirrakor>One should transport passanger from top to bottom, and the other one should transport coal from top to the left
08:48<Alberth>I understood that :) train 1 from bottom-left to top-left, but the other one?
08:49<Mirrakor>did I answer your question?
08:49<Alberth>so the power station is the common one
08:49<Mirrakor>wait, np
08:50<Mirrakor>the mine accepts passanger - this should be the common one
08:51<Alberth>so you need a signal just below the crossing (where the 1st coal wagon is), and one at the right of the crossing
08:51<Alberth>in both directions of course
08:51<planetmaker>full ack
08:51<Mirrakor>so two two-way-signals?
08:52<Mirrakor>the bottom-right or the upper right?
08:52<Alberth>trains need to move through the signal in both directions
08:53<Alberth>towards the town
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08:53<planetmaker>But you might rather transport passengers between two towns than from a town to the steel mill
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08:54<Alberth>(full passenger trains in both directions then => more money coming in)
08:55<Mirrakor>ok, so it doesn't make sense to set "load" and "unload", when it's unlikely that the train gets full
08:55<Alberth>also, I'd probably have 2 platforms at the steel mill, and seperate lines
08:55<Mirrakor>I can still expand it?!
08:56<Mirrakor>But then I'd need two other combo signals, right?
08:56<Alberth>'unload' just prevents loading, 'loading' may take a lot of time of inflow of cargo/passengers is low
08:57<Alberth>plz explain the combo signals, you lost me there
08:57<Mirrakor>it's in the wiki :D
08:57<Mirrakor>I think they're the two-way signals
08:57<planetmaker>Mirrakor: for a two track stations entry and exit signals make sense
08:57<Alberth>i'd have *completely* seperate lines
08:58<Mirrakor>ops, another time :D
08:58<planetmaker>Alberth: I wouldn't. I'd have an incoming and one outgoing
08:58<planetmaker>which shares for both services
08:58<Alberth>different people, different preferences :)
08:58<planetmaker>But i might seperate coal and steel by means of a waypoint immediately prior to the station
08:59*planetmaker is spoilt in this respect by the coop guys :)
08:59<Mirrakor>so there's a difference between combo signals and exit signals..
08:59<Alberth>over engineering :P
08:59<planetmaker>Mirrakor: a combo signal will only relay the combined state of all following exit signals
09:00<planetmaker>kind of (state exit #1) or (state exit #2) or (state exit #3) or...
09:00<planetmaker>it will ignore normal signals which follow
09:01<Eddi|zuHause2>,%2028.%20Sep%201927.png <- how i (used to) use signals
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09:01<Eddi|zuHause2>hm... anyone else gets timeout?
09:03<Mirrakor>i can't reach it too
09:03<planetmaker> --> terminus for simple cases
09:03<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause2: yes, me
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09:05<Alberth>Mirrakor: You have a pre-signal and exit-signal normally. Combo-signal is when you want to split such a block in more parts
09:10<Mirrakor>lol, now I've must made a mistake.. both trains wait at the crossing with a red light
09:12<planetmaker>Mirrakor: that happens, if they want to go to where the other train is waiting
09:12<planetmaker>And exactly that's the reason why I always use one track per direction - at least :)
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09:15<planetmaker>btw: a comprehensive city grow guide:
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09:22<Mirrakor>now I totaly screwed up :D
09:23<ln>how old is she?
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09:28<Patrick`>Mirrakor: "ignore signals" button is awesome
09:30<Patrick`>and has cost me a lot of money
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09:54<Diadem>Hello people :) Can I ask a question?
09:54<Diadem>I recently started playing this game again after two years. I remember back then we used to have PBS. What happened to it?
09:55<Joop>it is no longer in the game because it is/was too buggy...
09:57<Mirrakor>are the 6 different bus stations equal to each other?
09:57<Diadem>Hmm, that's a real shame. It was a great feature
09:57<Diadem>Ah well, we'll have to do without :)
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09:58<Joop>mirrakor, they are all for passengers... Only the last 2 are drive through, so they will drive on after stopping...
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10:06<Eddi|zuHause2>Diadem: there is a new PBS implementation called YAPP
10:07<Eddi|zuHause2>it is just not in trunk yet
10:07<Diadem>Yeah I read about that. Seems really in its development stage though? With many bugs etc
10:08<@peter1138>Not that many
10:10<Diadem>Hmm, might look into it then.
10:10<Diadem>Later, for now i'm still in 1953 anyway, no need yet :)
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10:11<Gekz>Eddi|zuHause2: what does YAPP really do?
10:12<Eddi|zuHause2>read the thread?
10:12<Mirrakor>Yet Another Path... ? :D
10:12<Eddi|zuHause2>read the wiki?
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10:39<Diadem>no wiki entry on yapp is there?
10:39<Eddi|zuHause2>but on PBS
10:46<Diadem>Gonna have to download one of the two later I guess
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10:56<Sacro>YAPP is so much better than PBS
10:56<Sacro>well, part of me did enjoy the huge crashes
10:58<hylje>what is yapp
10:58<@peter1138>i should update my server
10:59<Sacro>peter1138: ci
10:59<Sacro>could do
10:59<@peter1138>and a new game
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11:01<@peter1138>SO I SHALL
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11:04<Sacro>peter1138: GO ON THEN
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11:04<@peter1138>there's a windows binary too
11:05*peter1138 compiles
11:07<@peter1138>that one
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11:10<hylje>and there was much rejoicing
11:13<@peter1138>finished compiling
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11:14<@peter1138>SERVER RUNNING
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11:23<Diadem>I want RoRo depots
11:23<@peter1138>code it :D
11:24<hylje>or just faux stations for depots
11:25<Diadem>Imagine a big line with a gazillion trains running over it. Those need to be serviced on occasion. So you order them to visit the depot before picking up cargo
11:25<Diadem>but all trains share orders, so they all visit the depot
11:25<yorick>I thought about that, but from which side should trains come out?
11:25<yorick>how to store their heading
11:25<@peter1138>yorick: whichever is appropriate
11:25<Alberth>Hmm, RoRo depots, would that look like hiding an entire bus behind a tree?
11:25<Diadem>How to do that without causing slowdowns?
11:25<Diadem>I can't see a way
11:25<yorick>nah, behind a stone wall
11:26<@peter1138>Diadem: RoRo depots, no?
11:26<yorick>and an infinite number of ~
11:26<Alberth>I mean, first the entire train disappears in it, then at the other side it re-appears :P
11:26<exe>***is it very easy to add merge_company request command to another player's window? then he answers yes/no.
11:28<Diadem>But guys. Some advice. I have a lot of trains travelling down a one-way track. I want them to visit the depot before they arrive at the station at the end of the line
11:28<Diadem>How to do this without causing slowdowns? Ie: one train enters depot, drives out again very slowly causing the next train on the line to have to stop
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11:29<Diadem>I mean I could do something like this:
11:29<Diadem>But that doesn't work, because the next train won't just pass by, it also wants to go to this depot
11:29<Alberth>Diadem: Maybe have several depots in parallel?
11:30<Diadem>But can I order trains to "Visit any depot along this line" instead of "visit this particilar depot"?
11:31<Alberth>Hmm, good one, hadn't thought of that
11:32<Diadem>Guess I can remove the depot order from the orders list and let them decide for themselves when they want to be serviced. But that somehow always leads to my trains ignoring all stations for 3/4 years while looking for the furthest possible depot.
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11:33<Alberth>In the original TTD, I once split a stream of trains between two stations by hand by giving them different destinations, worked quite well
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11:34<Alberth>(unloading was too slow then)
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11:34<Diadem>yeah but I like the option of sharing orders too much to abandon it :P
11:35<yorick>@calc 3000/4
11:35<@DorpsGek>yorick: 750
11:35<Alberth>you'd only need n shared orders for n depots
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11:37<Diadem>perhaps these advanced main line depots are still the best options though
11:37<Diadem>And then i'm gonna have to put them in front of every station
11:38<Diadem>that'll slow down some cargo delivery, but will be fastest otherwise
11:39<@peter1138>just turn off breakdowns ;)
11:40<lolman>Wimps turn breakdowns off
11:41<hylje>i believe breakdowns should be redesigned among other things
11:41<Eddi|zuHause2>yes, the whole game needs to be redesigned :p
11:42<hylje>wouldnt be (or should not be) TTD after then
11:43<Diadem>The best thing about TTD though is that you can load coal at a coal mine for free, then sell your train without any penalty
11:43<Diadem>As long as that is kept it'll be TTD imho :P
11:43<hylje>that's silly
11:44<@peter1138>I don't quite know about 'best thing'...
11:44-!-Sacro` is now known as Sacro
11:45<yorick>and, you can go to another station, get money for the cargo, turn the train around at 90%, and load 10%, and get 100% of the money again
11:45<Diadem>Another very realistic part of TTD is that you can load cargo and then transport it anywhere you want. And actually get payed more for trasnporting it to the other side of the map
11:46<hylje>it could be another game where one would have to strike contracts for traffic
11:46<hylje>micromanagement emphatised
11:46<Alberth>maybe only get paid with subsidies :)
11:47<Dr_Jekyll>someone could help me with adding a patch using cygwin? i've installed it and when i now try to ./configure it tells me "gcc not found...please define the CC/CXXenvironment to where it is located" what does this mean?
11:47<hylje>well, it'd be like "we pay XX for tracks between YY and ZZ, then you will transport at least AA items of interest per month with conditions BB and CC (..)"
11:48<hylje>maybe not as freeform and fun as TTD, but a different game altogether
11:48<mrfrenzy>Dr_Jekyll: I suggest you use mingw instead
11:48<Alberth>Dr_Jekyll: Define environment var CXX with gcc path in it
11:50-!-anhedral is now known as dih
11:50<Joop>If i add a DIFF to my binarys and compile this... Can i start a multiplayer with the patch running?
11:51<Alberth>A diff to your binaries? Usually one applies a diff to source code
11:51<dih>if you patch the binary - no
11:51<dih>if you patch the source - yes
11:51<Joop>i am new to compiling :) but i mean that script that you can compile with "make" :P
11:52<dih>Alberth: you beat me too it - but mind was more funny :-P
11:52<yorick>"mind", yes, Joop, but you compile binaries with "make", not a script
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11:54<Diadem>Perhaps I should play this game at a harder difficulty :)
11:54<Alberth>dih: Well, I did once write a diff/patch for binaries, so it can be done :P
11:54<Joop>i mean that thing that you get from the SVN and compile with the "make" command... is this binaries or source? :P (new :P )
11:54<Diadem>I'm making 10 million profit in 1952 :)
11:56<Alberth>Joop: If it's readable in a text editor, it's source, if you can run it, it's an executable/binary
11:56<Eddi|zuHause2>problem is, with any difficulty you get to a point where you get money faster than you can spend it
11:56*dih takes his laptop and runs around... making his source binary
11:57<Eddi|zuHause2>i can read the binary in a text editor, does that count?
11:58<Eddi|zuHause2>i mean these python binaries that i have for my work project
11:58<Eddi|zuHause2>i can run them directly
11:58<Eddi|zuHause2>so they are binary
11:59<yorick>no, Eddi, those are scripts
11:59<Eddi|zuHause2>what i really wanted to say... that "definition" is flawed
11:59<yorick>scripts != source
12:00<yorick>and script != binary
12:00<hylje>you dare define python as mere scripts?
12:00<dih>yorick - you lost yourself
12:00<yorick>script = interpretable snippets of code that can be executed using a script interprenter
12:00<Alberth>No, non-executable Python is not a script
12:01<Alberth>it's source
12:01<Eddi|zuHause2>yorick: i368 is a "script interpreter", it interprets "machine code" scrips
12:02*yorick dislikes python
12:03<Eddi|zuHause2>you have no taste, we know that
12:03<Alberth>and you shouldn't try eating it :P
12:04<Eddi|zuHause2>ahh... server appears to be back...
12:05<Eddi|zuHause2>at least i got a dozen emails at once ;)
12:06<yorick>I only like flexible scripting languages
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12:07<Eddi|zuHause2>i can dynamically change the syntax tree of the language, is that flexible enough?
12:08<Alberth>Or change the class of an object after creating it :)
12:08<yorick>but you can't, change variable types from string to integer
12:09<Alberth>variables have no type
12:09<yorick>"1" * 1 = 1 :)
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12:09<yorick>"" + 1 = "1" :)
12:10<Eddi|zuHause2>sure, just redefine the operator
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12:10<valhalla1w>yorick: not in python
12:10<valhalla1w>oh, right
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12:11<valhallasw>what's wrong with just doing int("1")*1 if that's what you mean?
12:11<valhallasw>strong typing prevents assumptions by the interpreter/compiler :)
12:11<yorick>assumptions :o
12:12<valhallasw>are the mother of... ;)
12:13<jez9999>damnit. i lost my wallet :-(
12:13<yorick>you can't add methods to the prototype of certain things, can you? *String.prototype.*
12:14<Eddi|zuHause2>yorick: you can, just not to builtin types
12:14<valhallasw>erm, there are no prototypes in python
12:14<Eddi|zuHause2>def x(self, other): [...]
12:15<valhallasw>that's monkey patching
12:15<Eddi|zuHause2>it's totally fun ;)
12:15<hylje>and totally bad for health
12:17<Eddi|zuHause2>it's not much different than C function pointers
12:17<Eddi|zuHause2>only you can't do pointer arithmetics ;)
12:17<Alberth>nah, "myobject.__class__ = OtherClass" is (which changes the class of an existing object)
12:17<valhallasw>because C does it doesn't mean it's good ;)
12:17<Eddi|zuHause2>nobody talked about "good" ;)
12:17<valhallasw>Alberth: "A monkey patch (also spelled monkey-patch, MonkeyPatch) is a way to extend or modify runtime code without altering the original source code for dynamic languages (e.g. Smalltalk, Javascript, Ruby, Perl, and Python)."
12:17<Eddi|zuHause2>i said "fun" ;)
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12:33<Wolf01>anybody who can help me a little? I'm trying to add 2 new tools, one to level the area if it is below the start point, and one to level the area if it is above the start point... but it crashes :D
12:37<Alberth>Where is Doxygen text supposed to go, in the .h file or the .cpp file?
12:40<Alberth>Wolf01: configure with --enable-debug, re-compile, enable core-dumps, make it crash again, look in the debugger what it was doing
12:42<Wolf01>I'm already debugging with vs80
12:42<Wolf01>but it seem to work
12:42<Wolf01>at least with step execution
12:44<Wolf01>it asserts, but I know why (at least), and the "fill area" works
12:44<Wolf01>the "cut area" simply crashes
12:45<yorick>asserts how?
12:47<Wolf01>something about the costs
12:48<Wolf01>ok, seem that leaving a "=" sign fixed the crash
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12:51<Wolf01>res.GetCost() == res2.GetCost() && CmdFailed(res) == CmdFailed(res2)
12:53-!-dih is now known as anhedral
12:54<Wolf01>if I can make it work, I'll finally have a way to destroy mountains and keep coast lines intact... and the same to fill valleys and keep mountain top intact :P
13:13<Wolf01>it occurs only when I try to level multiple tiles :/
13:13<Eddi|zuHause2>Peace the huts, war the palaces!
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13:15<yorick>redefining stuff?
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13:21<Eddi|zuHause2>what do you mean?
13:21<Dr_Jekyll>baah...two weeks of searching, reading, trying, trying and trying...and now i have compiled my first build ;)
13:22<Eddi|zuHause2>the second time gets easier ;)
13:22<Dr_Jekyll>but now holidays are over and i haven't no time for playing...
13:24<yorick>you should have gotten yourself a bottd, the mingw32 that comes with it has everything preinstalled
13:25<Dr_Jekyll>but wit bottd it isn't possible to add more than one patch...someone told me
13:25<yorick>you don't have to use the actual bottd
13:25<yorick>just the mingw that comes with it
13:26<Dr_Jekyll>now i've done it with tortoisesvn and cygwin
13:27<Diadem>Doesn't it work with normal mingw?
13:27<yorick>but needs some libs ;)
13:29<Eddi|zuHause2>cygwin is baaad
13:29<Eddi|zuHause2>you should really have gone with mingw
13:30<yorick>tortoisesvn is baaad
13:30<yorick>you should really have gone with normal svn
13:30<Diadem>indeed, mingw > cygwin
13:30<Sacro>linux > mingw
13:30<yorick>price(windows) > price(linux)
13:31<Diadem>actually "linux > mingw" ==> syntax error
13:31<Diadem>can't compare OS with compiler :)
13:31<yorick>compatibility(windows) > control(linux)
13:31<Sacro>linux is only a kernel
13:32<Diadem>nevertheless, it is not a compiler :)
13:32<yorick>compilers don't have sh.exe, do they?
13:34<Diadem>Hey guys something completely different :)
13:34<+glx>yorick: sh.exe is in msys not in mingw
13:34<Diadem>When I last played this game 2-3 years ago I wrote a patch that allowed to demolish and raise/lower land not only in squares, but also diagonally
13:34<Diadem>Does anyone know what became of that?
13:34<yorick>it became outdated
13:35<Diadem>hehe, yeah, I guess so :)
13:35<Diadem>So noone picked it up for any patch collection or anything?
13:35<Diadem>shame, it was so useful ...
13:36<yorick>yes, but was outdated
13:36<yorick>patch collections started 6 months ago
13:36<Diadem>And noone updated it? Hmm
13:36<Diadem>gonna have to do that myself then I guess
13:36<yorick>and noone gave permission
13:36<Diadem>permission for what?
13:37<yorick>updating / picking up for patch collections
13:37<Diadem>Hmm, quite sure I did back then
13:37<Diadem>but it's ages ago
13:38<Diadem>Anyway you have heard of my patch then?
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13:54<Eddi|zuHause2><yorick> patch collections started 6 months ago <- you got that totally wrong
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13:55<yorick>Eddi, no, miniin is not counted a patch collection from my side
13:55<Eddi|zuHause2>there were "integrated nightlies" even before i joined here over 2 years ago
13:55<Eddi|zuHause2>what else would miniin be?
13:56<@Bjarni>I'm against the idea of people using multiple patches of questionable quality
13:56<Eddi|zuHause2>it started out the same way as all the other "patch collections" as you call them
13:57<@Bjarni>because if it fails they presume it's a bug in the game core and makes bug reports like it's a clean source
13:57<SmatZ>that doesn't happen that often
13:57<Eddi|zuHause2>and miniin was also not the first
13:59<@Bjarni>SmatZ: not often but it's really annoying when it happens
14:02<jez9999><@Bjarni> I'm against the idea of people using multiple patches of questionable quality
14:02<jez9999>^ hey, you contributed autoreplace. :-D
14:02<@Bjarni>that's different
14:02<@Bjarni>because it's one single feature
14:03<@Bjarni>also it has a determent developer fixing the severe issues
14:03<Diadem>Yeah I remember those integrated nightlies
14:04<jez9999>i dont suppose you feel like unilaterally making a very small (8 line modifications) code change that would significantly improve the game?
14:04<Diadem>I think my patch made it into those actually. But what happened to them?
14:05<Eddi|zuHause2>Diadem: after a while, especially with developers disappearing, they get impossible to maintain
14:05<Diadem>guess that's true :)
14:09<@peter1138>17:55 @Bjarni> also it has a determent developer fixing the severe issues
14:10<@Bjarni>like there are any severe unfixed issues in autoreplace
14:11<jez9999>my face code got chucked out because of the odd wrong curly brace
14:11<jez9999>apparently severe issues aren't the only problem :-)
14:11<yorick>if it fails to compile, it's severe
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14:21<Eddi|zuHause2>if it compiles, ship it!
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14:28<jez9999>Bjarni: <jez9999> i dont suppose you feel like unilaterally making a very small (8 line modifications) code change that would significantly improve the game?
14:28<jez9999>you didnt answer ;-)
14:30<jez9999>i was asking :-)
14:30<@Bjarni><EddizuHause2> if it compiles, ship it! <-- use Titanic if it breaks savegames and stuff like that
14:30<@Bjarni>read: ensure that it's lost for good in the transfer
14:31<jez9999>u didnt answer
14:31<@Bjarni>you didn't tell what you want me to do
14:32<@Bjarni>changing 8 lines at random makes little sense
14:32<jez9999>ok well check out this:
14:32<jez9999>tell me if you can think of a good reason why not to check it in :-) i think it just improves things with no negative effects
14:34<Eddi|zuHause2>change whitespaces in 8 lines ;)
14:35<Eddi|zuHause2>looks good
14:36<jez9999>it's going back to the oldskool look for the land owners view
14:36<jez9999>but it looks much clearer i think
14:36<@Bjarni>are you sure you want me to check this?
14:36<Eddi|zuHause2>i _can_ read ;)
14:36<@Bjarni>for all you know I could be blind
14:37<@Bjarni>or colourblind
14:37<@Bjarni>or just don't care for the map
14:37<@Bjarni>because you never asked about those issues ;)
14:37<jez9999>i'll take the risk :-)
14:38<@Bjarni>also it's possible that I use a B/W monitor
14:38<jez9999>then you'll have bigtime trouble playing openttd
14:38<@Bjarni>some people claim that I don't :/
14:38<Eddi|zuHause2>i played TT a lot on a B/W laptop
14:39<Eddi|zuHause2>it is no problem at all
14:39<@Bjarni>I played civilisation on a monochrome monitor
14:39<@Bjarni>worked great
14:39<Eddi|zuHause2>i played civ2 on that same laptop
14:39<@Bjarni>using monochrome sprites
14:40<@Bjarni>each unit had a black line with white icons in it below the actual image
14:40<@Bjarni>and each civilization had a pattern so it's possible to tell them apart without colours
14:41<@Bjarni>I guess I just told jez9999 that I'm not blind
14:41<@Bjarni>or at least used to be able to see
14:41<fjb>You did.
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14:41<Eddi|zuHause2>the heraldic system had a code for drawing the colours of shields when no colours were available
14:41<jez9999>but thankfully we have progressed beyond the days of CGA and Hercules (monitors), so .. what do you think of the patch?
14:42<@Bjarni>actually I have gone blind
14:42<Eddi|zuHause2>i had VGA back when i played civ 1
14:42*Prof_Frink steals Bjarni's wallet
14:42<@Bjarni>Prof_Frink tricked me into opening goatsee or whatever that image was called
14:42<Eddi|zuHause2>oh those were the days, when you needed SVGA (!) to play SC2000
14:43<jez9999>ouch, don't mention wallets :-(
14:45<fjb>What would happen if the lenght of a tick would be doubled?
14:45<Eddi|zuHause2>say portemonnaie instead ;)
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14:45<Eddi|zuHause2>fjb: that should not cause any trouble
14:46<Eddi|zuHause2>fjb: same as when you would have a really slow CPU
14:46<fjb>Would everything still run smooth but slower?
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14:46<Eddi|zuHause2>whatever you call "smooth"
14:46<fjb>Or would the vehicles start to jump?
14:47<Eddi|zuHause2>vehicles only move every tick
14:47<jez9999>Eddi|zuHause2: lost my wallet today :'-(
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14:47<fjb>Yes, but they appear constantly moving.
14:47<Eddi|zuHause2>i _can_ read ;)
14:48<Eddi|zuHause2>fjb: the brain can only view like 18 pictures per second
14:49<Eddi|zuHause2>which is why movies look smooth with 24 pictures per second
14:49<fjb>I know. The question is how long can a tick be without anybody noticing that the are not constantly moving.
14:49<ben_goodger>Eddi|zuHause2: mine can tell the difference between 30 and 40 fps quite easily
14:49<ben_goodger>they both look smooth, but they are comparable
14:50<ben_goodger>playing FPS at 50fps is a lot more pleasant than at 30
14:50<@peter1138>Playing Rigs of Rods at 5 FPS is unpleasant
14:51<Eddi|zuHause2>ben_goodger: i guess it has to do with being interactive
14:51<fjb>How many ticks per second is OpenTTD using now? (If the CPU is fast enough)
14:52<ben_goodger>the 24fps PAL framerate comes from 24fps being the smallest framerate where one cannot see the gaps between the frames on the physical film as it moves past. it's not smooth, merely smooth enough to not break
14:53<@peter1138>PAL doesn't have a 24fps framerate
14:53<fjb>Doubling that time would not only slow down everything. The vehicles would not appear to be constantly moving anymore.
14:54<Eddi|zuHause2>PAL is 50 frames interlaced
14:54<ben_goodger>oh, I see
14:54<fjb>PAL uses 25fps because German power network uses 50Hz.
14:55<ben_goodger>so 25fps
14:55<ben_goodger>24fps in film, then
14:55*Sacro upgrades RoR
14:55<Eddi|zuHause2>films are older than TV ;)
14:55<fjb>But only Tonfilm (what is the english Term for that?).
14:56<Eddi|zuHause2>the first TV transmission was the opening of the olympic games 1936 i think
14:56<@peter1138>PAL uses 25fps because the British power network uses 50Hz...
14:56<ben_goodger>fjb: explain it
14:56<+glx>same for SECAM
14:56<jez9999>Bjarni: im pretty sure i didnt upload goatse.
14:56<fjb>ben_goodger: Movies with audio track.
14:57<jez9999>oh, whoops, i did
14:57<jez9999>fixed it now though, it really is the patch pic
14:57<ben_goodger>fjb: could be anything
14:57<fjb>Movies bevore audio tracks were invented used 18fps.
14:57<ben_goodger>Eddi|zuHause2: it was in the 1910s, used a mechanical system and was of a passing schoolboy who was bribed to do it
14:57<Eddi|zuHause2>ben_goodger: i mean one viewed by a larger audience ;)
14:58<ben_goodger>fjb: yes, but they were speeded up when playing to avoid seeing the inter-frame sections of film
14:58<fjb>ben_goodger: No, they were originally shown at 18fps.
14:58<Diadem>Hmm, it says "train 10's profit last year was -€4,636"
14:58<Diadem>how do I turn that message off?
14:58<Diadem>(which message setting controls it?)
14:59<yorick>info about vehicles
14:59<Eddi|zuHause2>Diadem: "vehicle information"?
14:59<ben_goodger>fjb: with horrible flicker. they are now shown speeded up
14:59<Diadem>any other messages I loose then?
14:59<Eddi|zuHause2>"vehicle is getting old"?
15:00<Diadem>hmm, wanna keep that one though
15:00<Diadem>probably "train is lost" which is also useful to have
15:00<fjb>They are now shown speeded up because you can not show movies with 18fps today.
15:00<fjb>The sideeffect is that everything moves way too fast.
15:00<mrfrenzy>Diadem: why do you have trains with negative profit
15:01<Diadem>They are tributaries
15:01<ben_goodger>mrfrenzy: I get that. it's because the transfer system doesn't work as it says it does
15:01<mrfrenzy>works fine here
15:01<fjb>peter1138: PAL is a German invention. :-)
15:01<Diadem>I have a few very long coal routes that make profit
15:02<Diadem>and a few short lines that supply the long ones
15:02<mrfrenzy>Diadem: if they get longer than 120 days or so they make less money per trip
15:02<Diadem>Say you have 2 coal mines together and a third a little bit off. You build a station at the two coal mines and transport it to a power station
15:02<Diadem>And you get a little train that runs for the 3rd one to the station at the 2 mines with 'unload'
15:02<Diadem>that one is useful, but makes no profit
15:03<Eddi|zuHause2>Diadem: use "transfer"
15:03<mrfrenzy>you should use transfer, no tunload
15:03<Eddi|zuHause2>"transfer and leave empty"
15:03<Diadem>what does that do?
15:03<Diadem>Never noticed that button. It wasn't there 2 years ago :)
15:03<mrfrenzy>same as unload, but you get paid for the two trips separately
15:04<Diadem>Can you make a loop that way?
15:04<Diadem>Or when is payment done?
15:04<Eddi|zuHause2>you get "virtual" money
15:04<Eddi|zuHause2>the real money gets payed on final delivery
15:05<Eddi|zuHause2>the "virtual" money is only for the train statistics, not for the bank account
15:05<Sacro>aaah RoR
15:06*peter1138 kills Sacro
15:06<Diadem>that sounds cool
15:06<Diadem>Hm, does it also keep track of where the goods came from then?
15:07<Diadem>Example if I have : A ----- B --------------- C
15:07<Diadem>A and B are coal mines, C is a power station. I transfer from B to A and then to C
15:07<fjb>peter1138: Where you the one who told me that the new canadian set is not that interesting?
15:07<Diadem>do I get payed for B - C or for A - C
15:07<@peter1138>fjb, yes
15:07<Sacro>peter1138: i broked my mig :(
15:07<@peter1138>fjb, however, i'd not used it ;P
15:07<fjb>peter1138: You were right.:-)
15:08<@peter1138>probably full of way too powerful steamers...
15:08<@peter1138>Sacro: boo
15:08<fjb>More advertasing than working and fun.
15:08<Sacro>and i can't steer with my mosue
15:08<fjb>Yes, I'm missing the samm cheap shunters.
15:09<Eddi|zuHause2>Diadem: from original starting point to final destination
15:09<fjb>And the ECS support is not working that great. But that might be an OpenTTD bug. Don't know. But the engines are not that interesting.
15:10<Eddi|zuHause2>Diadem: but be aware, this drastically decreases in value for the waiting times inbetween
15:10<jez9999>peter1138: what do you think of ?
15:10<Eddi|zuHause2>so the intermediate stations should not pile up cargo
15:10<Sacro>peter1138: 16fps
15:10<jez9999>peter1138: what do you think of ?
15:10<@peter1138>fjb, well, oztransltd doesn't quite get cargo classes ;)
15:11<Diadem>Eddi|zuHause2: What do you mean?
15:11<Diadem>Eddi|zuHause2: You mean that you get payed for the full transfer time, including time the cargo spends laying around on thbe station?
15:11<Eddi|zuHause2>Diadem: you get payed less the longer it takes
15:11<fjb>peter1138: The wagons can not be refitted to all the goods that the manual states.
15:12<Diadem>Eddi|zuHause2: And it keeps track of the full trip time? ah
15:12<Diadem>Hmm, with 'unload' is just resets the time and profit I think
15:12<Eddi|zuHause2>no. it keeps track also, just it does not split the profit between the trains
15:13<Diadem>It does? Whenver I look in my wagons it always says the cargo comes from the transfer station, not the original one
15:14<Eddi|zuHause2>the wagons can only display one source station
15:14<@peter1138>fjb: did you set the appropriate parameter?
15:14<Eddi|zuHause2>also, it doesn't work correctly in 0.5.3
15:14<@peter1138>it works correctly
15:15<fjb>peter1138: Yes, it tells me what I can refit the wagon too. But that list is different from the list in the manual.
15:15<@peter1138>it just isn't designed to show it ;)
15:15-!-Mikko_A [] has joined #openttd
15:15<Eddi|zuHause2>Diadem: the intermediate station should say something like "300 tons of coal (50 en-route from XXX)"
15:15<Diadem>My first train with the new setup will arrive in a few seconds
15:15<Diadem>But with 'unload' it didn't :)
15:16<Eddi|zuHause2>Diadem: that is probably a bug
15:17<Diadem>ah yes now it did
15:17<Diadem>except that 2 trains were waiting in the station to pick up cargo :)
15:17<Diadem>so it was gone again immidiately :)
15:18<Mikko_A>is there easy way to convert railways? i have 120 trains.. and open tdd 0.6 rc1.. I have found the converting tool... but how i can convert trains and carriages?
15:19<mrfrenzy>you convert them in the depot
15:19<Mikko_A>now i know how to convert railways but trains?
15:19<Diadem>If you have a train stopped in a depot and you convert it, does it convert the train?
15:20<mrfrenzy>there will be a button in the new depot
15:21<Mikko_A>in ttdpatch there was easy way to do it... just writing to the sign cht tracks 1... it was a cheat but it still costs...
15:22<@peter1138>there's no way of doing that currently
15:22<Eddi|zuHause2># Orthannen im vi ól
15:22<Eddi|zuHause2># Coll e dû
15:22<Eddi|zuHause2># Or hiriath naur
15:22<Eddi|zuHause2># Na rovail mae sui 'waew
15:24<Diadem>So how do you upgrade a train?
15:24<Zuu>You have to manually copy the train.
15:24<Zuu>Orders however can be copied.
15:25<Eddi|zuHause2>Wolf01: yeah
15:26<Eddi|zuHause2>Wolf01: it's the text of the music when Frodo and Sam get picked up by the eagles
15:27<@peter1138># Welcome, to the hotel california
15:27<Eddi|zuHause2>under "common translation" it says: In a dream I was lifted up. Borne from the darkness, Above the rivers of fire. On wings doft as the wind.
15:28<Mikko_A>cani use replace vehicles?
15:28<fjb># You can try every time you want, but you can never leave. :-)
15:28<Mikko_A>if i call aall trains in first...
15:28<Mikko_A>then change all tracks ans stuff
15:29<Mikko_A>and then replace all
15:29<Wolf01># Brothers everywhere, raise your hands into the air, we are warriors, warriorsof the world
15:29<Eddi|zuHause2># There's nothing we can't face
15:29<Eddi|zuHause2># Except for bunnies
15:31<Mikko_A>i think im gonna download original ttd and download ttdpatch :D
15:31<Mikko_A>and try does same savegame work :D
15:32<Eddi|zuHause2>openttd's savegames do not work in patch
15:32<Mikko_A>damn :I
15:32<Wolf01>I tried to apply TTDPatch to my original TTD installation... but I found that is too tifficult to set up that and I turned back to OTTD
15:33<Eddi|zuHause2>i got The Patch running under wine after a few tries
15:33<Eddi|zuHause2>but you immediately miss some of the most basic usability features
15:33<Eddi|zuHause2>like autorail
15:33-!-Roujin [] has joined #openttd
15:34<fjb>Wine doesn't like me.
15:34<Eddi|zuHause2>Bier auf Wein, das laß sein ;)
15:36<ln>what is "patch settings" in elvish?
15:36-!-stillunknown [] has joined #openttd
15:37<@Bjarni>ln: you shouldn't wonder about that before you figured out how to say text editor
15:37-!-anhedral is now known as dih
15:41<Sacro>ln: OpenTTD does *not* need an elvish port
15:41<Eddi|zuHause2>ln: Sindarin or Quenya?
15:42<@Bjarni><Sacro> ln: OpenTTD does *not* need an elvish port <-- are you being a racist?
15:42<@Bjarni>what do you have against elves?
15:42<yorick>get me an elvish flat
15:42<@Bjarni>you want a treehouse?
15:43<Sacro>Bjarni: more heightist
15:43<Sacro>i don't like elves, hobbits
15:43<Sacro>the danish...
15:43-!-stillunknown [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:44<Eddi|zuHause2>Sacro of the easterlings
15:44<nicfer>I got an error while trying to enter a game after a desync
15:44<DaleStan><Eddi|zuHause2> like autorail <-- Whyever would you want autorail? It's to hard to control which direction you get with just one or two tiles. Mash [1]..[4] to select the direction, and you don't have that problem.
15:44-!-Sacro was kicked from #openttd by Bjarni [don't put me in the same group as hobbits]
15:44-!-Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
15:44<ln>Eddi|zuHause2: sindarin.
15:44<Eddi|zuHause2>DaleStan: it's not about "hard to control", it's about "getting used to"
15:44<nicfer>it said: game load failed internal error: inflate() failed
15:45<yorick>happens sometimes
15:45<SmatZ>nicfer: do you have enough free space?
15:45<nicfer>multiplayer, yes
15:45<SmatZ>no your hard disk
15:45<yorick>someone else on your IP who also plays on the same server?
15:45<yorick>or is viewing info from it?
15:46<nicfer>nobody playing in my other pc
15:47<yorick>try to reconnect?
15:47<@peter1138>out of diskspace?
15:47<Eddi|zuHause2>doesn't really fit into the standard format ;)
15:47<@Bjarni>then whoever decided on the standard is a racist
15:47<yorick>peter1139, I've had it while I had enough diskspace
15:48<@Bjarni>and can expect to get a visit by elves when he least expect it
15:48<Eddi|zuHause2>ln: i guess tolkien didn't really have computer vocabulary in the first half of 20th century ;)
15:48<nicfer>68gb free
15:48<@Bjarni>nicfer: are you sure that's enough?
15:48<@Bjarni>and is it the right disk?
15:49<nicfer>I have one disk
15:49<yorick>enough for?
15:50<@Bjarni>single disk systems
15:50*yorick has one ;(
15:50<@Bjarni>btw have you ever seen windows telling you that it can't install something on the D drive because it lacks free space on the C drive?
15:50<yorick>nicfer: have you accidentaly pressed ctrl-G so you're out of diskspace?
15:50-!-McHawk [] has joined #openttd
15:50<nicfer>I was rejoining a multiplayer game
15:51*yorick should clean up hist temp files, over 1 gb
15:52<Eddi|zuHause2>8611694 /tmp
15:52<nicfer>would be good that the banks could be builded in other directions
15:52-!-stillunknown [] has joined #openttd
15:52<SmatZ>nicfer: is there network_client.tmp file in your save/autosave directory?
15:53<nicfer>yes, in autosave
15:53<Eddi|zuHause2>nicfer: if you provide a patch for rotatable map
15:54<nicfer>no, not rotate the map
15:54<nicfer>the banks should be rotable
15:54<yorick>I think they could be made using a grf
15:54<Eddi|zuHause2>yes, rotate the map under the bank
15:55<ln>nicfer: build, built, built
15:55<nicfer>oh yes my english sucks
15:55<SmatZ>nicfer: try deleting that file
15:55<yorick>but backup
15:55<nicfer>now I can join normally
15:55<SmatZ>no need to backup temporary files
15:56<yorick>ln: stop nitpicking on non-native english speakers
15:56-!-Mikko_A [] has quit []
15:57<ln>yorick: i thought this channel was English only, and besides i'm not nitpicking, i'm giving advice.
15:58<@Bjarni>is "drop dead" also giving advice?
15:58*hylje throws exp at ln
15:59-!-Slowpoke [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:59<yorick>ooh...!bjarni makes Slowpoke quit!
16:00<yorick>the mighty power of the lord bjarni!
16:00<@Bjarni>you can't trick me again
16:00-!-Prof_Frink was kicked from #openttd by Bjarni [not again]
16:00-!-Prof_Frink [~proffrink@] has joined #openttd
16:00<@Bjarni>I'm serious
16:00<@Bjarni>you are
16:01<ln>Bjarni the serious
16:02<hylje>bjarni are serious bjarni
16:03*yorick puts bjarni in a serious imaginary box
16:04<@Bjarni>yorick: move that damn box. It's blocking the view
16:05<yorick>the imaginary view?
16:05<@Bjarni>the virtual one
16:05*yorick moves the imaginary box because it's blocking the virtual view
16:06*Prof_Frink puts Bjarni in a windowbox
16:06*Prof_Frink waters Bjarni
16:06*yorick gets his imaginary box out of Prof_Frinks windowbox and dries the water out of it
16:07<@Bjarni>not only did you place me near an MS product, you also watered down the hardware
16:07<Diadem>I've found a very funny bug
16:07<Prof_Frink>Bjarni: No, not a Windows box, a windowbox
16:07<@Bjarni>I need something funny
16:07<@Bjarni>because the funny guys in this channel aren't actually that funny
16:07<Diadem>lemme make a screenie
16:07<@Bjarni>they just think so
16:07<@Bjarni>so it's imaginary funny
16:08<yorick>as I said ^^
16:08<Eddi|zuHause2>ln: advise
16:09<Diadem>The train in the middle is waiting for itself
16:09<SmatZ>Diadem: it is not a bug :)
16:10<Diadem>Waiting for yourself is clearly a bug :)
16:10<yorick>no, its not a bug
16:10<ln>Eddi|zuHause2: advice
16:10*SmatZ closes Diadem's bug as "Won't fix"
16:10<yorick>it's because the signal block is looping over that depot track
16:10<Diadem>I understand why it happens
16:10<Eddi|zuHause2>i should rephrase that
16:11<Diadem>I'm not stupid :P
16:11<yorick>and you can get around it by making that track longer
16:11<yorick>and put a signal on it
16:11<Diadem>But just because you understand why a bug occurs doesn't mean it's magically not a bug
16:11<Eddi|zuHause2>ln: advise him!
16:11<yorick>but this is magically a bug
16:12<yorick>because it's expected behavior: signal is red if train is behind it
16:12<yorick>train is behind signal, signal is red in this case
16:12<Diadem>Again, I understand why it happens. But basicly the train is triggering itself. That's just wrong :)
16:12<yorick>it's not
16:12<Diadem>Even the Dutch railways have never ever used that as an excuse for delays
16:12<Diadem>and they are very creative with excuses :)
16:12<yorick>but it's normally snow
16:13<Prof_Frink>Eddi|zuHause2: Turn on trains-crashing-into-themselves and call it a feature.
16:13*dih jumps
16:13<Prof_Frink>Diadem: Unlike .uk, where it's "Leaves on the line"
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16:13<SmatZ>Diadem: did you know trains can cross itself withou crashing?
16:13-!-stillunknown [] has joined #openttd
16:14<Eddi|zuHause2>Prof_Frink: not what i meant ;)
16:14<Diadem>Yeah I do
16:14<SmatZ>I think it is a funny "bug" ,too :)
16:14<Prof_Frink>Or just commit YAPP to trunk
16:15<Eddi|zuHause2>Diadem: it's not a bug, it's the design of the signal block
16:15<Diadem>actually check this screenie I made 2-3 years ago already :)
16:15<Eddi|zuHause2>there is a train in the signal block so the signal is red
16:15<Eddi|zuHause2>everything else would be a bug
16:16<Eddi|zuHause2>snakes on a train... err...
16:17<Diadem>I have more great screenies :)
16:18<Diadem>I once grew a city to over 1 million people ;)
16:18<dih>boom boom boom boom, i want you in my room....
16:19-!-yorick [] has quit [Quit: En ik ga!]
16:19<Sacro>dih: damn, cannae find tht track
16:20<dih>vengaboys rock :-P
16:21*Sacro downloads the party album
16:21<Sacro>dih: one on one just me and you
16:21<dih>hello party people, this is kaptain kim speaking....
16:22<dih>don't wanna be a bus driver all my life....
16:22<dih>that kinda is suiting for OpenTTD :-D
16:23<Eddi|zuHause2>you guys are weird...
16:23*peter1138 continues building his sacro-less empire
16:23<Prof_Frink>Eddi|zuHause2: Took you long enough to realise
16:23<Sacro>1 album
16:24<Sacro>and 3 best of/greatest hits
16:24<Eddi|zuHause2>yes, i haven't noticed all these years
16:24<dih>Sacro: lets take it to ts :-P
16:24<dih> :-)
16:24<Sacro>not found D:
16:25<Sacro>this is trashing my reputation ><
16:26<Eddi|zuHause2>it recently said my taste in music is close to the one of orudge
16:26<@peter1138>oh dear
16:27<Sacro> <- gits :p
16:27<Sacro>Including: Overseer, Stereo MC's, The Arrogant Worms, Lunatic Calm, Tenacious D, Underworld, Eric Idle and more
16:27<Sacro>Underworld, Eric Idle
16:27<dih>8 o'clock get up get out of bed, i feel like a truck ran over my head....
16:27<Sacro>dih: skinny dipping all night long (take your clothes off(
16:27<Eddi|zuHause2>i don't have any of these...
16:28<dih>but my oncle john from jamaca keeps on calling every day...
16:28-!-Chrill [] has joined #openttd
16:28*dih hooks up his laptop to his big-ass hifi
16:30<Eddi|zuHause2># ich zahle und verlasse den Bäcker
16:30<Eddi|zuHause2># hör noch den Nachrichtensprecher
16:30<Eddi|zuHause2># "Lage wieder mal dramatisch verschlechtert,
16:30<Eddi|zuHause2># heute fantastisches Wetter"
16:30<dih>Sacro: you gonna join?
16:31-!-stillunknown [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:32<Sacro>i don't have it
16:32<dih>get it :-P
16:32<dih>i am assuming here you have a headset or something...
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16:33<@peter1138>i have a phone
16:34<@peter1138>it talks sip
16:34*peter1138 ponders asterisk/teamspeak integration :p
16:34<Sacro>dih: yah, creative fatal1ty
16:34<Sacro>peter1138: go on :p
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16:35<dih>Sacro: all you need:
16:37<Sacro>i don't have a 5.25 to 3.33 converter
16:37*dih slaps Sacro
16:37<Sacro>though hang on
16:37<Sacro>i might not need on
16:38<Sacro>i do for my x-fi drive :(
16:38<@peter1138>the linux teamspeak client has the gay
16:39<Sacro>peter1138: GTK1 D:
16:40<Sacro>who is on TS?
16:40<Sacro>my laptop can run TS XD
16:40-!-lolman [] has joined #openttd
16:40<Sacro>oh noes
16:40<@peter1138>how gay
16:40<@peter1138>sooo ugyl
16:40<dih>i use speekx
16:41-!-stillunknown [] has joined #openttd
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16:45<Sacro>all quiet D:
16:45<@peter1138>got no mic :p
16:45<Sacro>what channel?
16:45<dih>Misc, Music
16:45<Sacro>now i have a great big loud heavy ipod!
16:46<@peter1138>with crap quality
16:46<@peter1138>unless ipods have that anyway
16:46<Sacro>peter1138: its not amazing
16:46<ln>Sacro: apostrophe
16:46<Sacro>ln: in'deed
16:46<dih>then turn it down...
16:47<Sacro>right click dih
16:47<Sacro>click mute
16:48<dih>dont hear nothing you say :-P
16:48<Sacro>all i can hear is your music
16:48<dih>you should have output volume controll of ts
16:49<Sacro>CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW?
16:49<dih>i can read what you right
16:49<dih>and i am not waering my headset
16:49<ln>dih: apostrophe
16:50<@peter1138>sort of
16:50<@peter1138>say something sensible
16:50<@peter1138>harr harr
16:51<Sacro>wtf is this crap
16:51<dih>roxette :-D
16:51-!-Tekky_ [] has joined #openttd
16:51<dih>you wanna play some?
16:51<Sacro>hey Tekky_
16:51<Sacro>wtf is peter doing
16:52<Sacro>HAHAHA XD
16:53<dih>go on then
16:53<Sacro>ahh peace :P
16:54*Sacro rick rolled y'all
16:54<ln>for the next two minutes, Danish Only
16:54*dih preferes his ttd-theme remix
16:55<dih>ln - seems like you already lost
16:56<dih>i hope that was not Sacro singing :-P
16:56*Sacro was heard
16:56<@peter1138>this one goes on a bit doesn't it...
16:57-!-Tekky [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:57-!-Tekky_ is now known as Tekky
16:57<dih>it's my remix :-P
16:57<@peter1138>i was playing the .gm file :p
16:57<dih>fresher / different instruments
16:58<dih>what on earth
16:59<dih>what is that
17:00<dih>peter1138: that is very unclear :-P
17:00<@peter1138>very noisy :p
17:00<dih>like no base?
17:00<@peter1138>probably no good for a voice codec, hehe
17:00<dih>only mid 'n highs?
17:00<Mark>dih: like what was that
17:00<dih>i aint playin that :-P
17:00<@peter1138>plenty of bass here :P
17:01<dih>the ttd themes were alright :-P
17:01<ln>interestingly, i sort of have no idea wtf people are talking about right now, but maybe i'll go sleep instead of pondering that.
17:02<dih>and your threshold is too high - so it breaks up
17:13<dih>peter1138: do you know Flanders and Swan
17:13-!-stillunknown [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:14<@peter1138>er, not personally
17:15<dih>well - no - of course not personally
17:15<@peter1138>ok, no ;p
17:15<dih>i'll play ya one in a minute
17:15<dih>they are hillarious
17:15<dih>old commedians - mid fifties or so
17:24<dih>i love that humor :-P
17:27<dih>not in ts
17:27<Eddi|zuHause2>I KILL YOU.
17:35-!-Roujin [] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> <- Would you like to know more?]
17:36<dih>I KILL YOU FIRST
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17:42<Eddi|zuHause2># stop
17:42<Eddi|zuHause2># hammertime
17:43<Wolf01># hail and kill
17:43<Prof_Frink>/* Quite. */
17:47<fjb>>> /dev/null
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17:50<jez9999>what do people think of this:
17:50-!-Poopsmith [] has joined #openttd
17:50<jez9999>could it be quickly checked into the trunk? just a few different colours but makes the land owners screen so much nicer/clearer; i've been using it for a while now and love it
17:50<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12483 /trunk/config.lib: -Change: disable stripping of binaries by default so we have a (much) better chance of actually getting something useful out of OSX stacktraces.
17:51<mrfrenzy>you are in a hurry jez9999 ;)
17:51<Rubidium>newgrf authors will most likely start complaining that their industry's colour makes them invisible on the smallmap whereas it's still visible on the TTDP smallmap.
17:52<mrfrenzy>why don't you supply some prepatched versions for people to try
17:52<mrfrenzy>then when you get all praises it might be considered :P
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17:57<jez9999>"their industry's colour makes them invisible on the smallmap"?
17:58<Prof_Frink>jez9999: Same colour as background
17:58<@peter1138>it only affects the company colour map
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18:00<Rubidium>then we'll get bug reports about it being inconsistent colour wise
18:00<jez9999>i think it looks quite nice
18:01<@peter1138>what about adjusting the blue cc slightly?
18:01<@peter1138>that's the only one which clashes, isn't it?
18:01<jez9999>you switch from a view to the land owners view, looks like it's 'darkened' the less relevant bits like the land and sea and towns
18:01<jez9999>and is highlighting the colours of the land owners
18:01<jez9999>i think it works really well
18:01<jez9999>i tried that first
18:01<jez9999>it's hard though, and much easier to use the same palette colour for all companies
18:01<jez9999>this solution seems nicer
18:01<jez9999>in fact i prefer the look of it
18:02<jez9999>so did Chris Sawyer when he made TT ;-)
18:02<@peter1138>obviously he didn't like it as he changed it ;)
18:02*Sacro belches loudly
18:03*fjb wonders if Sacro ever says something useful.
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18:04<jez9999>peter1138: yeah and for all the maps but the land owners one i prefer the new look :-)
18:05<jez9999>you tried my patch? see if you like the land owners display, it should seem as if the land and sea have been 'dulled' and the overlaid colours for land owners 'highlighted'
18:05<jez9999>the colour change actually feels fine
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19:54<Mirrakor>I've got a city with 1,438 citizens - with 3 bus stops and one depot.. how many busses would you suggest me to use?
19:55<Mirrakor>now, when you say it - it really makes sense to me :D
19:56<@Belugas>Mirrakor, try 2-3 for each station
19:56<@Belugas>as the success grows, add a few more
19:56<@Belugas>you'll see
19:56<Mirrakor>2-3 for each station? o_o
19:56<@Belugas>trial and error, in fact
19:56<@Belugas>what's wrong?
19:56<Mirrakor>I'd have used 2-3 in the whole city :D
19:56<Mirrakor>nothing wrong - I'm just surprised ;)
19:57<@Belugas>well.. i usually do that
19:57<@Belugas>sometimes, i have to reduce the number
19:57<@Belugas>sometimes, it's not enough
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19:57<@Belugas>there is no rules
19:57<Mirrakor>Belugas: have an idea how they should move?
19:57<@Belugas>it's all depending
19:57<@Belugas>i tend to let them visit each station on a circuit
19:58<Mirrakor>ok :)
19:58<@Belugas>or make a more uniform distribution
19:58<@Belugas>and a -> b->c->d->a
19:59<Mirrakor>well.. now I only have to get some money to buy busses :D
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20:10<Mirrakor>can I sell an old train?
20:10<jez9999>you have to keep them around forever and put them in a museum
20:11<Mirrakor>can I at least make money from the exhibition? :P :D
20:11<Mirrakor>no - seriously, how can I sell them?
20:11<jez9999>send them to the depot and... sell them?
20:12<Mirrakor>hm.. I thought I send it to the depot.. - but thanks :)
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20:32<bt>anyone help with a question?
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20:32<@Belugas>i'm sorry to say, but how can anyone help if no one knows the question???
20:33<@Belugas>lay down the question. if anyne can help, you'll know
20:34<bt>i'm a couple of hundred years into a game and helicopters have disappeared (i can't build them) is there any way (through patches or the like) that I can bring them back?
20:34<bt>so i can build them
20:35<@Belugas>there is no way to bring them back
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20:35<@Belugas>their life span has expired
20:35<@Belugas>not that i know of, anyway
20:35<@Belugas>unless you create or find a grf that allows it, of course
20:36<bt>hmmm - are there any really good grf creation guides? I can't seem to find any
20:37<Ammller>patch setting "vehicels don't expire"?
20:37<@Belugas>there is such a patch???
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20:37<Ammller>you should know it :P
20:39<@Belugas>why should i know everything on this game???
20:41<bt>should this work if the vehicle has already expired? I've enabled it now, but still can't see heli's in my build options.....
20:41<@Belugas>that's waht i wonder too...
20:41<+glx>try reset_engines in the console after modifying the setting
20:41<Ammller>hmm, there is a console command reset_vehicels
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20:45<bt>super duper - the command is resetengines - helichoppers are back!
20:46<bt>thanks for your help
20:46<bt>that will keep me up til silly o'clock now!
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21:08<jez9999>what's the norm when posting a binary version of openttd with a patch applied?
21:08<jez9999>do you include any support files?
21:09<Sacro>jez9999: some do, some don't
21:09<Sacro>depends if it needs anything, or if you can jsut dump the binary over a normal build
21:09<jez9999>it's annoying; i've just got a kickass train network setup with the help of the copy/paste patch...
21:09<jez9999>then i upgraded it all to monorail in 5 mins using another version with my auto vehicle convert patch applied
21:09<jez9999>but i cant go back and play in the copypaste version as it's older :-)
21:10<jez9999>damn these things just need to all be checked into trunk
21:13<Sacro> for(i = 0; i = (data.Length - 2 ); i++)
21:14<Sacro> for(j = 0; j = (data.Length - 1); j++)
21:14<Sacro> for(k = i; k = j; k++)
21:14<Sacro>nothing like brute forcing
21:16<Sacro>this algoritm is going to be quite inefficient
21:19<Sacro>except it doesn't work D:
21:20<Sacro>oh yes
21:20<Sacro>!= :P
21:21<jez9999>it's troublesome if good patches arent checked in because they work with different builds of openttd :-\
21:21<jez9999>which means you often cant use several together
21:21<Mirrakor>damn this summertime..
21:21<jez9999>nor are the savegames usually compatible
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21:23<Sacro>oh crap
21:24<Sacro>its 3:30 am now D:
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---Logclosed Sun Mar 30 00:00:11 2008