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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-04-02

---Logopened Wed Apr 02 00:00:05 2008
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00:15<TheJosh>hey all
00:15<TheJosh>releaseing on april fools day...classic!
00:15<TheJosh>just like StarCraft (10 years ago though)
00:21<TheJosh>made another version of shares part 1 version 1: (updated to latest rev)
00:25<TheJosh>me off now, need to do some video editing
00:25<TheJosh>cya all around
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02:51<ln>indeed it is
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03:22<@DorpsGek>Celestar: Open Bugs: 30; Not assigned: 22; Closed this week: 8; Opened this week: 17
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05:41<Eddi|zuHause2>no, it's called halo
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05:51<Trond>I never really liked halo :P
05:52<Gekz>halo is for gays
05:52<Gekz>gays and hitler.
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05:54<keyweed>gay nazi zombi slayers from dimension x?
05:55<Gekz>dimension y do you question me
05:56<Trond>:P omg, did you see this one...
05:58<Gekz>thats insane
05:59<Trond>what a mess that would be if they crashed...
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06:34<SpComb>no GSoC for OpenTTD? :(
06:37<ln>why would there be?
06:38<ben_goodger>well, there are some pretty obvious areas that could do with it
06:39<ben_goodger>the most obvious I can think of is 32bpp
06:39<@peter1138>nothing to stop people working on those areas
06:39<@peter1138>32bpp works perfectly :D
06:39<ben_goodger>indeed not, but gsoc makes people work on them more
06:39<ln>ben_goodger: but does gsoc support projects whose copyright holder and legal status is unknown?
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06:40<ben_goodger>it's now in debian contrib [sinbin] exclusively because it requires the old graphics files
06:41<@peter1138>and nothing at all to do with the dubious origins
06:44<@peter1138>does GSoC include graphics data files?
06:44*peter1138 suspects not
06:45<@peter1138>i don't know, but i'd imagine it's more of ... a code thing.
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06:45<ben_goodger>ok, let's see
06:46<ben_goodger>there's [afaik for all] the rivers thing, that needs testing and stabilising; newPBS, same; AI
06:46<@peter1138>pbs is done, pretty much
06:46<@peter1138>ai is already being worked on
06:46<@peter1138>rivers... fine
06:47<ben_goodger>yes.. that doesn't mean it can't be improved significantly [my copy gives a big warning on start that says "works only for X mode of transport"
06:47<@peter1138>what, with noai?
06:48<ben_goodger>I don't know what it's called. I press "enable new AI [beta/something]" and it presents that
06:48<ben_goodger>that's on 0.6.0beta2, I believe
06:48<@peter1138>well that's old and obsolete
06:48<@peter1138>noai has been in development for a while, but separately
06:49<ben_goodger>ok, I've now lost my openttd installation
06:50<ben_goodger>it was on my desktop last week! !.!
06:50<ln>i was able to compile trunk in ~23 seconds while experimenting with overclocking.
06:50<ben_goodger>good grief
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06:51<ben_goodger>beagle informs me that openttd has inexplicably been moved to my films directory
06:51<@Belugas>blame GSoC for that :D
06:52<ben_goodger>oh, it was beta1
06:55<@peter1138>well the AI's not been changed
06:56<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truebrain * r12538 /branches/noai/ (14 files in 4 dirs):
06:56<CIA-1>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Codechange: introducing fiber.hpp, a class to have fibers in your application via either Windows Fibers, or via thread.h
06:56<CIA-1>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Codechange: rewritten ai_threads.cpp, to work with Fiber class. Reduces code duplication, and should fix all the stupid asserts we had with newgames and dying AIs
06:56<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -NOTE: now my head spins.. 24 hours of working with threads/fibers is bad for health :p Tnx glx for the testing!
07:06<Eddi|zuHause2>wtf is a "fiber"?
07:06<ben_goodger>a fibre, badly misspelled so as to not confuse obese people
07:07<ben_goodger>same with liter, meter, gram, program, etc
07:07<@peter1138>it's like a thread but cut down
07:07<@peter1138>whatever that means
07:09<ben_goodger>a mini-thread?
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07:14<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truebrain * r12539 /branches/noai/src/economy.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix: when you take over an AI, the game no longer crashes when a new AI starts again
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08:11<Diadem>Is there a way to conveniently add trains to lists?
08:11<Diadem>Like all trains servicing station x
08:11<@peter1138>you can see which trains stop at a station
08:11<@peter1138>in a list
08:12<@peter1138>but no explicit grouping
08:13<Eddi|zuHause2>click on the station, and then on the little train icon
08:13<hylje>NO WAI!
08:14<Diadem>And then Eddi|zuHause2?
08:14<Diadem>Then I can send them all to depot, but not to a group
08:15<keyweed>Diadem: don't think there's any other way then dragging
08:15<keyweed>almost like windows
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08:15<@peter1138>you can group vehicles with shared orders easily
08:15<@peter1138>but not just because they stop at the same station
08:15<keyweed>true, but i always think about shared orders when it's too late already :P
08:16<@peter1138>i never think not to
08:18<SpComb> Byou mean you actually play OpenTTD?
08:18<@peter1138>i do
08:19<bowman>about that, why isn't the replace option available in the stations list? :)
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08:24<@peter1138>because replacement only work on 'real' groups (or the other two options)
08:25<bowman>I see there is already a feature request
08:25<@peter1138>there'd be *loads* of checks required all the time if 'virtual' groups were used to
08:26<@peter1138>with groups, we can check if one number is the same as another number
08:29<bowman>a shortcut for creating a group with all vehicles for a station would suffice
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08:31<@peter1138>well, go ahead ;)(
08:31<Yexo>bowman, what would that button do when some vehicles are already in a group?
08:32<bowman>cant a vehicle be in multiple groups?
08:32<Diadem>I manually dragged them now :)
08:32<Diadem>But it would be a nice feature to have really
08:32<@peter1138>no, they can't
08:33<bowman>manual grouping becomes problematic in big games with a 1000+ vehicles hehe
08:33<Yexo>not if you use shared orders and "add all vehicles with shared orders"
08:34<hylje>shared orders and groups go together
08:34<bowman>ah theres an option for that?
08:34<Yexo>under manage vehicles in the groups window
08:34<Diadem>Yeah that's a life saver if you have 150 vehicles with the same orders :)
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09:06<Joop>can i ask something about the script autopilot?
09:07<Noldo>Briannetta is not here
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09:57<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r12540 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: Enumify some values in original pathfinder and remove an unused variable.
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10:13<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r12541 /trunk/src/ (slope_func.h slope_type.h terraform_cmd.cpp water_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: Declare Slope enum as bit set, and remove some (then) unneeded casts.
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10:21<jordi>okay, official Debian packages are now in, thanks to blathijs
10:22<jordi>I wonder if there's any Ubuntu MOTU in the audience, or should I use my influences to make sure 0.6 is in the hardy release.
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11:20<+glx>jordi: not really a bug
11:21<jordi>glx: what do you mean?
11:21<jordi>it's a request, but it needs to go in the bug tracker
11:21<jordi>I know it's not a bug
11:22<blathijs>It's more like a request tracker, not only a bug tracker :-)
11:23<+glx>well this tracker then miss a "request type" field ;)
11:24<ln>in Ubuntu, stability matters, not whether you can actually use the product for anything.
11:24<ln>also stability doesn't mean the same as non-crashing.
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11:42<blathijs>To whom should I complain^Wask for advice about the configure script?
11:43<@Rubidium>in what area?
11:44<blathijs>Rubidium: svn blame says it's you, but svn log can't seem to find that revision (7604)
11:45<blathijs>Rubidium: When you set a personal dir, make install also tries to install scenarios into the personal dir of the user running make install
11:45<blathijs>Which is mostly unwanted IMO (will end up installing scenarios into root's homedir I guess) and breaks on Debian buildd's, because their homedir is /nonexistent
11:48<blathijs>I guess a seperate ./configure option for that would make sense (there is already a seperate INSTALL_PERSONAL_DIR variable in the Makefile, which gets set to PERSONAL_DIR now)
11:49<blathijs>Ah, the revision svn log refused to show me was in the makefilerewrite branch :-)
11:49<blathijs>And the log says it's "semi-proper install functionality"
11:49<@Rubidium>blathijs: 7604 was in branches/makefilerewrite (or whatever way it was written back then)
11:50<@Rubidium>blathijs: from the log it looks like I copied the behaviour directly from what was trunk back then
11:51<blathijs>Don't remember this being in there, but doesn't really matter
11:51<blathijs>Shall I just add a --install-personal-dir option?
11:52<@Rubidium>the first question is whether the current behaviour is actually correct
11:53<blathijs>Ie, we could also remove the INSTALL_PERSONAL_DIR stuff alltogether you mean?
11:53<blathijs>The current behaviour is, at least for Debian packaging, unwanted
11:53<blathijs>and for any packaging I guess
11:53<blathijs>The only use for this is end users running make install themselves
11:53<blathijs>or something like that
11:54<blathijs>Did we have search paths or stuff like that already?
11:54<blathijs>Ie, does openttd look in /usr/share and ~ for scenarios now?
11:54<@Rubidium>hmm, seems like 0.5 only creates the directories, but never copies something to there
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11:56<@Rubidium>blathijs: now I think about it the copying with make install to the homedir is bogus
11:57<@peter1138>bug! in 0.6.0!
11:59<blathijs>Ah, openttd offers to play scenarios from /usr/share only if you don't have a scenario dir in your personal dir
11:59<blathijs>which makes sense
12:00<blathijs>people wanting to work on their own scenarios and also play the default want should either copy them or keep browsing around, I guess
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12:07<blathijs>Rubidium: Any objections? ifdef INSTALL_PERSONAL_DIR $(Q)mkdir -p ~/"$(INSTALL_PERSONAL_DIR)" $(Q)cp -R "$(BUNDLE_DIR)/scenario" ~/"$(INSTALL_PERSONAL_DIR)"
12:08<blathijs>Any objections?
12:09<@Rubidium>okay by me
12:09<blathijs>hmm, how was this commit message style for openttd again... :-)
12:11<blathijs>Does this count as a -Remove, or is that really strictly for removing files only>?
12:13<frosch123>-Change perhaps, no clue
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12:15<blathijs>I'll go for -Fix, since the old behaviour is broken behaviour
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12:18<blathijs>Hmm, the commit style on the wiki is also quite out of date, really
12:19<blathijs>The section as hardly ever put up front, and the space before the leading - is also a bit ambiguous
12:20<CIA-1>OpenTTD: matthijs * r12542 /trunk/ -Fix [Makefile]: Don't install scenarios into the current user's homedir when running 'make install', that is silly. Simply always install scenarios system wide instead.
12:23<blathijs>Rubidium: Shall I merge it to 0.6 right away, or should I rather list it somewhere for a batch merge later on?
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12:39<jordi>blathijs: thanks mate. If you can add a patch to our svn I'll try to build a new one tonight
12:39<jordi>blathijs: I need to get out of here right now
12:43<jez9999>i wonder why OpenTTD is more popular in Europe than the US
12:43<blathijs>jordi: Yeah, that was the next thing on my list :-)
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13:06<dih>hey there
13:07<dih>@seen OptimusS|TTd|
13:07<@DorpsGek>dih: I have not seen OptimusS|TTd|.
13:07<dih>@seen OptimusS*
13:07<@DorpsGek>dih: I haven't seen anyone matching OptimusS*.
13:07<@Bjarni>@seen Op*
13:07<@DorpsGek>Bjarni: I haven't seen anyone matching Op*.
13:07<@Bjarni>hi Wolf01
13:07*Bjarni starts some foxfires
13:08<ln>"interesting", sort of answer to the question i was wondering the other day;
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13:29<Brianetta>svn diff | patch -R
13:29<SmatZ>isn't svn revert simpler?
13:33<Brianetta>not as fun
13:33<Brianetta>mine you can offer as a "fix"
13:33<Brianetta>to the unwary
13:34<Ammler>for i in `svn st src/ | sed -n -e 's/^\? //gp'`; do rm $i; done
13:34<Ammler>svn revert . -R
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13:35<ln>NO AWAY NICKS
13:36<Forked>7nick ForkedBack
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13:37<Eddi|zuHause2>Ammler: put those two on the same line
13:37<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause2: they are in a script "cleanrevert"
13:38<Ammler>try to update source with patch, that creates new files
13:38<Ammler>like YAPP
13:38<Eddi|zuHause2>ah, new files
13:39<Eddi|zuHause2>but can't you just rm * then?
13:39<Ammler>well, you could rm src/*
13:39<hylje>make clean?
13:39<Ammler>but then you also need to dl the whole source again
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13:39<hylje>you just revert then
13:39<hylje>it restores it all
13:40<Ammler>is that saved in .svn?
13:40<Eddi|zuHause2>revert does not download anything
13:40<Eddi|zuHause2>a copy of the original files is in .svn
13:40<hylje>there's also those other VCSes supported by openttd, hg and git
13:40<Eddi|zuHause2>this is used by svn diff and svn revert
13:40<hylje>which store the whole repository locally
13:40<hylje>rather than just the latest and a working copy
13:41<Ammler>so "rm ./src/* && revert . -R" would do the job without downloading?
13:42<Ammler>!s/revert/svn revert/
13:42<Eddi|zuHause2>rm $(find | grep -v "svn")
13:43<hylje>find src/ | xargs rm
13:43<hylje>yeah, eddi's got it better
13:43<hylje>its good to preserve the .svn dir
13:43<Ammler>shouldn't be deleted with *
13:44<Ammler>you would need .* for that
13:44<Eddi|zuHause2>no, but find will find it
13:44<Eddi|zuHause2>so it will delete everything within .svn
13:45<Ammler>now, I am confused
13:45<Eddi|zuHause2>Ammler: rm * will not apply to subdirectories of src
13:45<Eddi|zuHause2>whichof there are plenty
13:45<Eddi|zuHause2>is that a word even?
13:45<+glx>I had something with 'svn st | grep "?"'
13:45<Ammler>oh, forgot -R
13:46<Eddi|zuHause2>-R will recurse into .snv
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13:50<blathijs>cool, number of Debian users that have openttd installed:
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13:56<Prof_Frink>blathijs: No, number of Debian users that have openttd and popcon installed.
13:56<blathijs>Prof_Frink: Hmm, good point :-)
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14:00<Eddi|zuHause2>is there a number of total people somewhere?
14:01<yorick>on top of the town list?
14:01<yorick>worldpopulation: ...
14:01<Eddi|zuHause2>do not trust a statistic that you did not forge yourself
14:01*Eddi|zuHause2 ignores yorick
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14:17<dih>yorick: i have a nick name for you
14:17<dih>yorrige (yorick porrige) :-D
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14:20<jez9999>did it take you all year to think that up?
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14:51<okali>What I am donate money on this game ?
14:52<mrfrenzy>there is a linkon the website if you would like to do that
14:53<okali>In the game
14:53<okali>I want to donate money for my friend
14:53<blathijs>rofl :-)
14:54<okali>sorry, my english is bad...
14:56<okali>help me
14:57<okali>I'm reussit
14:57<okali>OPENTTD ROXXX !!!!
14:57<okali>... bye
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14:57<Patrick`>he knows it's in like 75 languages and most of us speak french, right?
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14:58<mrfrenzy>I only speak swedish, english and german
14:58<@Belugas>bien sur
14:58<mrfrenzy>but I'd guess there are a few french speaking in here ,)
14:59<yorick>a few ^^
15:00<yorick>I'm learning chinese, french, german, and speaking english, dutch :)
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15:45<dragonhorseboy>just wondering but any of you know what the hell is up with a new openttd folder (I just downloaded 0.6.0 to see what it was like) it always keep warning of many missing newgrfs even although I did -not- even specify any cfg files yet? :|
15:45<dragonhorseboy>this been like the third time anyhow
15:46<@peter1138>warning of missing newgrfs?
15:46<@peter1138>doing what?
15:46<@peter1138>or rather when and how?
15:47<@Belugas>loading a game that requires grf that you do not have?
15:47<@peter1138>that's the usual cause, yes
15:47<dragonhorseboy>download 0.6.0 zip .. extract it into a new folder .. open openttd.exe for the very first time ... it keep warning of missing newgrfs (no they're not t1gr.grf etc)
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15:47<+glx>they are not newgrfs
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15:48<@peter1138>did you use an betas or RC?
15:48<@peter1138>(or nightlies)
15:48<+glx>peter1138 has a point :)
15:48<dragonhorseboy>its been doing that ever since I've downloaded 0.5.7 then one 0.6.0-beta and then also 0.6.0
15:49<@peter1138>0.5.7, eh?
15:49<@peter1138>now that's imaginary
15:49<dragonhorseboy>like why is it trying to look for any newgrfs when it shouldn't
15:49<+glx>so you may have an openttd.cfg already
15:49<@peter1138>however, it's probably using your openttd.cfg in My Documents
15:49<dragonhorseboy>glx...nope the folder is fresh empty save for copying the five ttd files into data folder
15:49<+glx>the mydocs one
15:49<dragonhorseboy>glx..what mydoc? there's none
15:49<+glx>created by the beta
15:50<+glx>My Documents\OpenTTD
15:50<dragonhorseboy>glx...what kind of name is that for a game folder anyhow? ^-^
15:50<+glx>My Documents is a standard windows directory
15:51<@peter1138>Well the game is called OpenTTD, so a directory called OpenTTD is hardly... surprising
15:51<dragonhorseboy>glx...well I don't have it anyhow
15:51<hylje>peter1138: yeah, ottd should use a directory called TTDPatch
15:51<@peter1138>yeah ;D
15:51<dragonhorseboy>peter...I meant the main directory
15:51<Ammler>where do you save your pictures word documents etc.?
15:52<dragonhorseboy>ammler...either on desktop if I'm still working on them or C:\mystuffs to keep them
15:53<hylje>if we go into that, i rather have a proprietary binary format containing everything
15:53<Ammler>so maybe you have a folder \mystuffs\OpenTTD?
15:53<hylje>and chuck that into System32
15:53<dragonhorseboy>messenger/etc are redirected to C:\onfiles
15:53<dih>noris that into the system32? <-- hylje ^^
15:53<dragonhorseboy>ammler...hmm no don't see one in dir
15:54<Ammler>windows guys, there is a command to print out system var mydoc, isn't?
15:54<@peter1138>well, a lot of people store things in My Documents, as that is, you know, what it's for
15:55<@peter1138>it'll be a %SOMETHING% one, i suspect
15:56<dragonhorseboy>peter...well I don't since windows cd seem to strangely want to affect that particular folder at random
15:56<+glx>set doesn't show anything about mydocs
15:57<+glx>mydocs is D:\Mes Documents, user profile is C:\Documents And Settings\<user>
15:58<dragonhorseboy>hm now searching for openttd.cfg excluding games/ folder.....
15:59<@peter1138>maybe you've got a replacement opntitle.dat, hehe
15:59<Ammler>is that the 1.April fool
15:59<@peter1138>20:59 Topic for #openttd: 0.6.0
15:59<Ammler>no kick for that anymore
15:59*glx updates it's script
16:00<dih>glx => it's?
16:00<+glx>3 genders is silly
16:03<dragonhorseboy> idea...there's only just one in openttd folder and one catalogued on the backup firewire hd
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16:31*Sacro is going to hungary D:
16:32*dih is hungry
16:34-!-Netsplit <-> quits: phin, Frostregen, lobster, snappy, @orudge, @Belugas
16:34<+glx>so old
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16:39<Sacro>dih: funnly enoguh i will be changing planes at budapest
16:40<Eddi|zuHause2>we always went to hungary by bus
16:40<ln>what is the country whose capital is Estocolmo?
16:40<Eddi|zuHause2>never heard of that city
16:41<+glx>sounds like Stockolm
16:41<mrfrenzy>haha ln
16:41<ln>it is stockholm, in spanish.
16:41<Sacro>shame, means i won't get to see warsaw
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16:42<Eddi|zuHause2>warsaw is nowhere near hungary
16:42<Vikthor>Eddi|zuHause2: That depends on scale
16:42<Sacro>is compared to england
16:42<Eddi|zuHause2>but it's also not on the way from england to hungary
16:43<Eddi|zuHause2>except maybe if you go via stockholm ;)
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16:43<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause2: going england - ukreaine
16:43<Sacro>via hungary
16:43<Vikthor>Eddi|zuHause2: Geographically not, but I won't be surprised if some low-cost airline combination would be cheapest via Warsaw
16:44<Eddi|zuHause2>ln: sorry, but adding vowels is totally changing the emphasis, there's no way to recognise this...
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16:45<ln>Eddi|zuHause2: that was kind of the point of this question, to ask something obvious that sounds very unobvious.
16:45<Eddi|zuHause2>i should reduce my shame by saying "norway" :p
16:46<ln>SmatZ: !bookmarks
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18:41<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause2: nice one :-)
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18:50<jez9999>Ammler: you suddenly felt an urge to buy a pot from eBay??
18:51<Sacro>buying pot from ebay>
18:51<jez9999>i wish
18:51<jez9999>hash brownies direct?
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18:52<Ammler>wll, IPod=eipot=egg pot
18:53<@peter1138>strange germans
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18:57<jez9999>why is OpenTTD more popular in Europe than the US?
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18:57<@peter1138>who knows
18:57<@Bjarni><Sacro> buying pot from ebay> <-- well... I guess they have some sort of hashtable in their database. Now we know why ;)
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19:05<@Bjarni><jez9999> why is OpenTTD more popular in Europe than the US? <-- we would have to make a survey in order to answer that one
19:06<@Bjarni>putting up a poll on the forum wouldn't really give a decent result so we simply don't know the answer to the question
19:06<@Bjarni>why should we care?
19:07<@Bjarni>I mean why should we care for the reason. It's not like we would add killer robots or aliens if that is what it takes to become popular in the US
19:09<jordi>Bjarni: still it's an interesting question
19:09<@Bjarni>but your guess at the answer is as good as mine
19:09<jordi>I don't think he expected an answer to it
19:09<@Bjarni>maybe XD
19:10<jordi>anyway, the makefile fixes are in Debian now, and it can be built for all architectures
19:11<@Bjarni>I guess it could be that a lot of players heard about the game from friends and then it more or less by random got more players in Europe then more people talked about it in Europe so the growth of players in Europe increased
19:13<jordi>Bjarni: maybe the American public is used to other kind of entertainment, more action or so, due to the kind of mass-media culture they have there. I don't know; generalising like this is silly, but it's also true that the American and European cinema productions are quite different.
19:14<jordi>and directors like Woody Allen are totally ignored in their own country, but praised in Europe
19:14<jordi>so there's some kind of difference after all
19:15<@Bjarni>when they made that Mr. Bean movie they aimed at the US marked (that's why he travelled there) and it was a disaster in the US (both in the movie and in the cinemas)
19:15<@Bjarni>however as a big surprise they liked it in Australia
19:15<@Bjarni>and nobody knows why
19:17<@Bjarni>maybe some advertising in the US would help
19:17<@Bjarni>however since we don't gain money from gaining more players it wouldn't be sane to invest in advertising anywhere
19:18<@Bjarni>maybe Sacro has the answer
19:18<Sacro>he does!
19:18<@Bjarni>the Americans are too stupid to figure out what the game is all about?
19:19<Sacro>well no, Microprose was a british company
19:19<Sacro>and sold mainly over Europe
19:19<Sacro>so I doubt the game had much exposure over in the US
19:19<Sacro>what with it mainly being British
19:19<@Bjarni>that could be a reason
19:19<Sacro>ie british vehicles a
19:20<@Bjarni>but that can't explain the Hungarian interest in the game
19:20<@Bjarni>I mean the Hungarians picked OTTD as best free game of the year
19:21<Prof_Frink>Bjarni: Get someone to do a writeup of openttd for DPotD or similar
19:21<Sacro>Bjarni: what else is there to do in Hungary?
19:22<Sacro>you can only eat so much goulash
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19:23<Prof_Frink>Debian Package of t'day
19:23<@Bjarni><Sacro> Bjarni: what else is there to do in Hungary? <-- play other games. Considering the country was under strong communistic influence in the TT era and the communists didn't believe in copyright for software they could just copy whatever game they wanted
19:24<jordi>they could play freeciv and try to win the game only using Communism as the ruling style. :)
19:25*jordi also maintains Freeciv in Debian </nb>
19:25<@peter1138>the hungarians are revolting!
19:26<jordi>Bjarni: btw, jokes about stupid Americans are not really funny, it's like a meme, but there's so many really dumb people in Europe who wouldn't know how many countries are in the Union right now...
19:26<jordi>peter1138: the Hungarians are no more!
19:26<jordi>so, Freeciv has a Spanish nation, but also a Catalan nation
19:27<Sacro>the union?
19:27<Sacro>which union?
19:27<@peter1138>bjarnis jokes are never funny
19:27<jordi>One has Valencia as one of its major cities, while the others have València
19:27<jordi>and that isn't fun. :)
19:27<jordi>Sacro: er, EU?
19:27<Sacro>17 countries
19:27<@Bjarni>at one time my brother tried playing freeciv in MP and he thought he did good (could beat the computer at a hard level in normal civ) and all of a sudden somebody started building wonders that indicated that he had like twice the amount of techs... and this is bad when the wonders were in the industrial era
19:27<jordi>Sacro: is that also a joke?
19:28<Sacro>that's what i learnt at school
19:28<@Bjarni>turned out that he played against some pretty hardcore games (might even have written the game as it took place at that uni around that time)
19:28<jordi>Sacro: well, wrong.
19:28<jordi>it was 15 not that long ago
19:28<jordi>then went to 25 recently, and to 27 even more recently
19:29<jordi>Bjarni: wow
19:29<@Bjarni><jordi> Bjarni: btw, jokes about stupid Americans are not really funny <-- actually the point was more like trying to guess what Sacro would state as a reason but it turned out that he was actually serious this time
19:29<jordi>Bjarni: I'm always ashamed of playing these gameso nline
19:29<jordi>there's always really hardcore players around
19:29<jordi>and make me feel very stupid
19:29<Sacro>Bjarni: i'm not as stupid as you may think
19:30<@Bjarni>I know
19:30<@Bjarni>to be honest I don't think you are stupid at all
19:30<jez9999>i did think it was more popular in Europe because we have way more trains than over there
19:30<jez9999>but i dont think so, i dont tend to use trains anyway, the fun of the game is inherent. anyway as someone said before it's probably because Microprose didn't push it in the US
19:31<jez9999>i wish microprose still existed
19:31<@Bjarni>I think the arctic and desert sets were aimed at the US marked as they are full of US trains but it kind of sucks that they have the same top speed :/
19:31<jez9999>they kick the shit out of anything EA ever came up with
19:31<Sacro>jez9999: "someone"?
19:31<jez9999>yeah, their name looked particularly unimportant ;-)
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19:33<jordi>Sacro: 27 in the present, but will go over 30 sooner than later:
19:34<jordi>I had no idea Morocco tried to enter the EU
19:35<@Bjarni>I'm surprised that they were sane enough to reject it. It feels like they want to expand into the entire planet if they could
19:35<jez9999>yeah but then they'd have to rename it the European and Tinpot Dictators Union
19:35*Sacro wants to be a tinpot dictator
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19:36<@Bjarni>the EU politicians don't want to have elections anyway
19:36<jez9999>the EP sort of do
19:36<jez9999>not that i like their 'directives'
19:37<jez9999>the only one that was any good, forcing car insurance companies not to be sexist, was dropped
19:38<@Bjarni>they can agree to issue directives telling stuff like how much a cucumber is allowed to bend
19:38<@Bjarni>if it bends too much then you aren't allowed to sell it at any price
19:38<dih>or in one piece
19:38<dih>but you may shredd it and make a salad out of it
19:38<dih>and you may sell that
19:39<@Bjarni>I'm not even sure if that is allowed
19:39<jez9999>all i know is, Tesco sell me beaten up bananas
19:39<jez9999>i wish they'd issue a directive requiring bananas to be unbruised
19:39<dih>tesco stibks ^^
19:39<dih>i always went to sainsburry or marks n sparks
19:40-!-stillunknown [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:40<@Bjarni>they made a minimum size for tomatoes meaning that the slow growing and small but really tasty tomatoes are banned
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19:40<@Bjarni>no tomatoes
19:40<dih>coctail tomatoes!
19:41<@Bjarni>uncrushed ketchup in your world
19:41<jordi>the EP is useless
19:41<jordi>the EC can piss on their votes
19:41<jordi>as shown by the patents fiasco
19:41<jez9999>software patents are being majorly held up in Europe
19:44<@Bjarni>wtf there is talk about Israel joining EU
19:44<jordi>I know, but the commission has promised to find ways to resurrect the project back from the dead after the parliament voted against it
19:45<jordi>Bjarni: Israel, east Europe.
19:46<jordi>2862 D+ Apr 02 Debian Installe ( 11) openttd_0.6.0-2_i386.changes REJECTED
19:46<jordi>tar.gz md5sum mismatch
19:47<jordi>iow, I fucked up I think
19:48<jez9999>the EuroVision has Israel in :-)
19:48<@Bjarni>expanding EU from 15 to 25 countries were a really hot topic. Those in favour of doing it said that the people over there wouldn't come here
19:48<@Bjarni>and now we have Polish workers everywhere
19:49<@Bjarni>we can deal with that (more or less)
19:49<@Bjarni>the problem is that the criminals also figured out that they could come here
19:49<@Bjarni>so now we have an increase in armed robberies and murders due to people coming from Eastern Europe
19:50<SmatZ>it sounds like people from the Easter Europe were all murderers and robbers :-x
19:50<SmatZ>I miss "some" in your sentence
19:50<@Bjarni>and we went from nearly no pocket thieves to a severe issue due to organised import of trained thieves
19:50<SmatZ>... due to SOME people...
19:50<jez9999>Bjarni: heh, polish workers everywhere :-)
19:50<jez9999>i thought the UK were the only ones with that problem
19:51<@Bjarni><SmatZ> it sounds like people from the Easter Europe were all murderers and robbers :-x <-- I didn't write that. I wrote "the criminals" which is (hopefully) a small group compared to the whole population in Eastern Europe
19:52<jez9999>im guessing a ton of money is flowing into Poland at the moment
19:52<jez9999>cant last forever
19:52<jez9999>seems pretty unfair to other countries though
19:52<@Bjarni>actually it's a problem for Poland because they export their workforce
19:53<@Bjarni>so they have to hire workers from the east of Poland
19:53<@Bjarni>the country as a whole is losing money on this
19:54<jordi>jez9999: a lot of money flowed into Spain and Poland
19:54<jordi>that money is going to Estonia, Latvia and so now, though.
19:54<jordi>Which is the fair thing.
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19:54<@Bjarni>SmatZ: oh now I see what you meant.... and yeah you are right. I didn't mean everybody ;)
19:54<jordi>Spain has benefitted *enormously* from joining the EU
19:55<@Bjarni><jordi> Spain has benefitted *enormously* from joining the EU <-- at our expense :(
19:55<jordi>we don't get poles though. We get Romanians ;)
19:55<jordi>Bjarni: well, that's a way of seeing it.
19:55<jordi>Vote for an anti-eu party next time
19:55<jordi>and spread the word
19:55<SmatZ>Bjarni: all investations will return in benefits...
19:55<jordi>The fact is that Spain is able to give back now.
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19:56<@Bjarni>but we will not benefit from it
19:56<jordi>and 40 million live a lot better than after the dictatorship
19:57<jordi>I don't know who "we" is, but really, you should campaign to get out of the EU :)
19:57<@Bjarni>you are saying that like EU is needed to get rid of dictators
19:57<jordi>er, no?
19:57<@peter1138>thats what bush is for
19:57<jez9999>lol :-)
19:59<@Bjarni><jordi> I don't know who "we" is, but really, you should campaign to get out of the EU :) <-- actually the Lisbon treaty started that talk again. Not the treaty itself but the fact that that there will not be an election
19:59<@Bjarni>even though there has to be one according to the constitution
20:00<@Bjarni>then people went "why aren't we allowed to get informed on what goes on and why are they fighting so hard to avoid our opinion"
20:00<jordi>all I said is that Spain was a big mess in 1978
20:00<jordi>peter1138: lol
20:00<jordi>ah the danes... they come here, sunbath in our beaches and one of them even had sex with my sister and now they have a really nice 3 month old baby :P
20:00<jez9999>if the Lisbon treaty cut back on the whole free movement malarky, i'd be all for it
20:01<jez9999>free movement works well iif you have a bunch of regions speaking the same language
20:02<@Bjarni>actually the Lisbon treaty change EU from the current system where all countries has to agree to a system where only 2/3 of the countries has to agree on decisions
20:02<@Bjarni>meaning that if say 24 countries wants GB to switch to EUR then GB has to do that even if GB is against it
20:03<@Bjarni>it also contains the rules for having an EU president
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20:04<@Bjarni>that's the two main issues in that treaty
20:04<jez9999>doesnt it have a specific opt-out for currency?
20:05<jez9999>anyway i can understand why many people are ok with that. they're used to being goverened by people they dont like and didnt vote for:
20:05<jez9999>2/3s is still quite high compared to the simple majority most parliaments require
20:06<@Bjarni>I don't know but if 2/3 of the countries wants to cancel the limitation of the currency then I guess it's possible that even if the pound is safe right now it can be kicked out by EU even if GB is against it
20:06<@Bjarni>they just need to do some more paperwork first
20:07<jez9999>if they did that, there would be a huge rebellion in the UK
20:07<@peter1138>country wants, countries want
20:07<jez9999>the government would have a hard time stopping people calling for the UK pulling out
20:08<@Bjarni>they will wait until there is a strategic option where it's not possible to say no
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20:08<jez9999>im off anyway, bye
20:08<@Bjarni>you see the Lisbon treaty also has rules for leaving EU
20:08<jez9999>time to chop off a few Labourite politicians' heads, i think
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20:14<@Bjarni>nobody else says anything
20:14<@Bjarni>are you asleep or chocked what I told about the consequences of the Lisbon treaty?
20:15*SmatZ progs
20:15<@Bjarni>fair enough
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---Logclosed Thu Apr 03 00:00:52 2008