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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-04-17

---Logopened Thu Apr 17 00:00:40 2008
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02:53<CIA-3>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12746 /trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: Add map storage for station animation frame
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02:54<CIA-3>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12747 /trunk/src/newgrf_station.cpp: -Codechange: Add varaction retrieval of station animation frame
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03:29<Trond>peter1138: are we getting animated stations soon?? :O
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04:06<SirBob>does anyone know what i'd have to do (codewise) to find the length of a rv/tram
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04:09<Noldo>who is in the position to change where points?
04:10<@peter1138>oh, the web redirect?
04:10<@peter1138>truelight probably
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04:13<Noldo>it points to svn/trunk.hg/shortlog which doesn't exist
04:17<Roest>sirbob: cached_veh_length in vehicle_base.h i'd say
04:18<@peter1138>hmm, there's no cached_total_length for RVs
04:19<Roest>guess that's the reason why articulated rv's overlap
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04:21<Roest>so my last question yesterday when everyone was at sleep already: does anyone use the modern trams grf?
04:21<@peter1138>not me
04:21<Roest>is it a bug/conflict with other grfs that they all are available in 1920
04:22<Roest>or is it coded that way?
04:22<Ammler>Roest: did you read the thread about it?
04:23<Ammler>they have no technical data yet, iirc
04:23<Roest>umm searching :/
04:24<Roest>yea i've been to that thread, not sure if i read all pages
04:30<Ammler>you need only the first post, iirc :-)
04:30<Ammler>should be noted something about missing stats
04:31<Roest>oh not this one then
04:32<Ammler>I guess, they have also all same speed and cap
04:32<Roest>yea kinda sucks, it's the best set graphicswise out there i think
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04:34<extspotter>is anyone here online on OTTD
04:36<extspotter>If I make a game, would anyone join (I thiunk it would be with UKRS and with the pikka industries)
04:36<planetmaker>sorry, I won't now :)
04:37<planetmaker>Evening hours are much more likely to catch interested people...
04:37<planetmaker>(it's no good style to have ottd run at work...)
04:38<Roest>too few and wrong grfs for my taste
04:40<Ammler>Roest: dutch trams, uktrams or hiroshima are also nice
04:40<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r12748 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ [NoAI] -Fix r12744: a change in $Id$ is not a change
04:41<SirBob>so, how would i go about finding the total rv length?
04:41<SirBob>or cant i?
04:42<@peter1138>loop the vehicles in the chain
04:42<@peter1138>or add a cache for the total length
04:42<extspotter>to join my game, you need pikka's basic industries, UKRS, new depots and GRVTS
04:43<@peter1138>common enough
04:44<Ammler>is GRVTS german rvs? or generic?
04:45<Gekz>not enough road vehicle sets
04:45<Gekz>and GRVTS sucks imo
04:45<Gekz>it's unexciting
04:46<@peter1138>it is unexciting but it does cover everything
04:47<Gekz>I want excitement in the morning
04:47*Celestar pokes Gekz
04:47<Celestar>there's your excitement
04:49<@peter1138>excitement like committing the engine pool?
04:49<Celestar>when was the last time Kudr showed up?
04:50<@peter1138>!seen kudr
04:50<@peter1138>@seen kudr
04:50<@DorpsGek>peter1138: kudr was last seen in #openttd 25 weeks, 0 days, 18 hours, 25 minutes, and 37 seconds ago: <KUDr> good
04:50<@peter1138>more recently than that
04:50<@peter1138>what's up? heh
04:50<Celestar>peter1138: PBS, newsignalling, yapp ....
04:51<Celestar>I had some ideas :)
04:51<@peter1138>well yapp was michi_cc's
04:51<@peter1138>what ideas?
04:51*peter1138 likes yapp as it is ;)
04:51<Celestar>it works?
04:51<Celestar>it's well coded?
04:52<@peter1138>yes, when i last looked
04:52<Celestar>so why isn't it in yet?
04:52<@peter1138>cos it'll make 0.6.0 obsolete ;)
04:52<@peter1138>actually there were some issues in version 5
04:53<@peter1138>and some performance issues need taking care of, i believe
04:53<Celestar>I see :)
04:53<Roest>guess we need 0.6.1 then
04:53<@peter1138>nope, that'll be for bugfixes of 0.6.0 only
04:54<@peter1138>i never experienced performance issues myself, as i only have small networks
04:54<@peter1138>(and maybe the core 2 helps...)
04:54<Roest>so you saying, it won't go in before 0.7.0?
04:54<@peter1138>... yes
04:54<Celestar>Roest: 0.6.n are bugfix versions of 0.6.0
04:54<Celestar>where n >= 1
04:55<Celestar>peter1138: what about me testing Yapp? I have a number of hugeass games
04:55<@peter1138>issues with yapp: people don't bother reading how to use it properly
04:55<@peter1138>and... er... that's it
04:55<@peter1138>some people complain that 'priority signalling' doesn't work with it
04:55<Celestar>is it better than TTDPs'? ;)
04:56<@peter1138>which is rubbish, as the old style signals still work
04:56<Celestar>that's not part of trunk, is it?
04:56<@peter1138>far better :)
04:56<Ammler>Celestar: much better, because of the penalties
04:56<Roest>priority signaling is only for those strange coop guys
04:56<@peter1138>Celestar: 'priority signalling' == 'abusing presignal combinations'
04:56<Celestar>I see
04:56<@peter1138>and as they are not removed, i don't see the problem
04:57<@peter1138>from my point of view, yapp is perfect
04:58<Celestar>want me to profile it? :)
04:58<@peter1138>when properly signalled, no deadlocks, no crashes...
04:58<@peter1138>if you want
04:58<Celestar>what pf does it use?
04:58<Ammler>about 50% more cpu usage, I would say
04:58<@peter1138>Ammler: with yapp signals everywhere or just at junctions?
04:59<@peter1138>(and which version?, heh)
04:59<Ammler>its just experience not mesured
04:59<@peter1138>ah, so a bullshit figure then
04:59<Ammler>was with a 4er
04:59<@peter1138>it's bound to take up some more cpu time, granted
05:00<Ammler>we spoke about that already here...
05:02<Ammler>we made 3-line Mainlines with the middle one bidirectional
05:02<Ammler>so yes pbs everywhere
05:02<Ammler>btw. that wokred nice
05:03<@peter1138>difficult to measure that as that arrangement wouldn't be used normally
05:03<@peter1138>so performance could be up because it's doing more pathfinding because trains are stopped less often
05:03<@peter1138>err, s/performance/cpu usage/
05:04<Ammler>no, you can't build more efficient networks with pbs,
05:05<@peter1138>you've got loads of junctions on that 3-lane track, all require path finding
05:05<@peter1138>when you have 4-lane, 2 each way, most of the time it's just straight track with no pathfinding
05:05<@peter1138>so that could easily bump up the cpu usage
05:06<@peter1138>and if that's the case, it's not a "50% performance hit" for using pbs
05:07<Roest>ah crap right when we found yapp to be ok, someone reports an assertion
05:08<Kloopy>I disagree that YAPP would make 0.6.0 obsolete.... there are a load of awesome features in it that will never be made obsolete, delaying the introduction of new features because of a recent release seems silly. But saying that I accept there are good reasons for a planned development cycle.
05:09<@Rubidium>peter1138: isn't the point of path based signalling to get a higher throughput through junctions?
05:09<Roest>i see it from a patch junkie point of view, more in trunk, less to merge :)
05:12<@peter1138>Rubidium: yes
05:12<@peter1138>Rubidium: your point? :)
05:13<@peter1138>gah, i need to be at home
05:13<@peter1138>(to test station animation, heh)
05:13<@Rubidium>it didn't quite do that last time I tried YAPP
05:13<@peter1138>it worked for me
05:14<@Rubidium>but then again, my station layouts may be a little awkward
05:14<@peter1138>i was only giving it 'normal' use though
05:14<@Rubidium>and I'm sure that TTDP style PBS would do the trick
05:16<@peter1138>in that particular case, or in general?
05:16<@Rubidium>at least in my case
05:16<@peter1138>i didn't see a screenshot of your problem
05:17<Roest>rubidum: was that newgrf window killed because it doesn't work on low resolutions, or could we get it in with a switch to use the old style there?
05:18<Roest>meaning rejected
05:18<@Rubidium>AFAICT I never rejected it
05:19<@Rubidium>I maybe gave some concerns I had with it
05:19<Roest>well i guess you question about 320x240 kinda derailed that thread and nycom gave up
05:19<@Rubidium>just never had the time/intent to take a look at it more thoroughly
05:19<Kloopy>lol "derailed"
05:20<Ammler>Roest: did you find out, how to resize horizontal?
05:20<@Rubidium>and having multiple windows doing exactly the same thing is asking for the need to fix bugs twice (and forgetting about the need to do it, so even more bugfixing is needed)
05:21<Roest>yes, but i didn't get myself to do it, just need to set the right flags for all the widgets
05:21<Roest>rubidum: agreed but it's certainly more comfortable than the current way
05:22<Ammler>would it possible to have both windows open and not closing after every selected grf?
05:22<Roest>think so
05:22<@Rubidium>Roest: you better start using tab-completion of (nick)names
05:23<Roest>Ammler: without looking at the code, i'd say the select grf button also invokes a close window command which could be removed
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05:37<hylje>polar bears
05:39<hylje>(how do they know apples?)
05:40<Roest>you lost me there
05:43<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12749 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: store the viewport information in the windows that have a viewport instead of one global array with a viewport for each window, even when they do not use the viewport.
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05:46<SirBob>woot. my patch now supports rv's
05:46<ralph_>what does it do?
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05:46<SirBob>sorts trains and rv's by length
05:49<Roest>woot it's noon and again i didnt do a single piece of work yet
05:50<Noldo>I know the feeling
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05:51<bowman>got that beat, no actual work done since november
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05:56<Celestar>0.5.3 has been downloada about 250.000 times?
05:57*Celestar wonders whether TTO was sold that often :P
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05:58<Kloopy>Can you still get TTD?
05:58<Noldo>used maybe
05:59<Celestar>0.3.3 (first version I started coding on) at about 18.000 downloads
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06:45<Aerandir>woot woot :D
06:45<Aerandir>one has to love ttd
06:46<Sionide>one does
06:46<dih>does one?
06:46<@peter1138>yes, it's a criminal offence not to
07:04<extspotter>I have started a game on OTTD
07:04<extspotter>with just the UKRS set if anyone wants to join !UKRS [Fair Game]
07:04<Sionide>well done
07:05<Sionide>you're exempt from criminal prosecution
07:05<Sionide>on that charge anyway
07:05<extspotter>can someone come play with me?
07:05<extspotter>I always end up on my own
07:05<Sionide>i love UKRS, alas I have not the time to game currently :(
07:05*Celestar is at work :/
07:05<extspotter>does OTTD work on vista?
07:06<Celestar>I dunno cuz I don't touch Windows *
07:07<Kloopy>I have a friend who plays it regularly in single player and multiplayer over the Internet and hasn't had a problem the game once.
07:07<Kloopy>with the game*
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07:25<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12750 /trunk/src/news_gui.cpp: -Fix (r12749): viewport for industry new messages was not shown properly.
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07:47<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12751 /trunk/src/ (8 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: do what has been done in r11862 in a different way so it uses less memory.
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07:59<Celestar>@openttd bugs
07:59<@DorpsGek>Celestar: Open Bugs: 28; Not assigned: 21; Closed this week: 16; Opened this week: 13
07:59<Celestar>I wondered this morning when revision 1.0.0 is released :)
08:00<Celestar>and what we have in there
08:00<Eddi|zuHause3>you could ask Rubidium's crystal ball, but it's broken unfortunately
08:00<Celestar>I have some items on a list ...
08:01<Eddi|zuHause3>two years ago it was said that once OTTD is really a standalone game, it would be called 1.0
08:01<Ammller>all TTDP features :-)
08:02<Eddi|zuHause3>have i mentioned i hate C?
08:02<Noldo>I don't remember
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08:02<Eddi|zuHause3>i want back to python... everything was so easy...
08:03<DaleStan>Eddi|zuHause3: Well, you're in luck. Open is no longer in C; now it's C++.
08:03<Eddi|zuHause3>if only this was about OTTD :(
08:03<Noldo>I'm sure the easyness comes with a price
08:03<Celestar>Ammller: balanced game and realistic train stopping for example
08:04<Ammller>no, more bridge heads, enhanced tunnels, rivers and progammable signals. :-)
08:05<Celestar>I thought we have rivers?
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08:05<Ammller>only half
08:05<Eddi|zuHause3>which reminds me... stopping points on train orders [as extension of a "no stop" order]
08:05<@peter1138>yes, but the terrain generator doesn't make them
08:05<bowman>is anyone working on that?
08:05<bowman>generating rivers
08:05<Celestar>bowman: working on wwhat exactly
08:05<@peter1138>not that i'm aware of
08:06<Eddi|zuHause3>there was a concept page called "lively rivers" on the wiki, but afaik no coding has been done
08:06<Gekz>I wanted rivers
08:06<Gekz>rivers would kick ass
08:06<Noldo>Eddi|zuHause3: lively as in there is a spring and then the river just flows?
08:06<bowman>its really lakes too right, all water that isn't sea level
08:07<Ammller>peter1138: whats the reason you stopped dev on bridge heads?
08:07<Eddi|zuHause3>Noldo: yes, something like that
08:07<Celestar>Ammller: I continued them
08:07<Ammller>oh :-)
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08:08<Celestar>Ammller: ran into serious problems
08:08<Celestar>Ammller: especially with signals on bridge heads
08:09<Eddi|zuHause3>mainly trains stopping in front of signals, i believe
08:09<Ammller>some months ago I checked out the branch last time
08:09<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause3: no ...
08:09<Eddi|zuHause3>well, trains not stopping in front of signals ;)
08:09<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause3: had crashes with certain reverse situations. I kind of hope someone will help me there at some point (=
08:09<Celestar>SmatZ: weren't you an expert there? (=
08:10<SmatZ>Celestar: I am not sure if an expert :)
08:10<Eddi|zuHause3>i assume the train reversing was not prepared for a lot of stuff [e.g. shorter vehicles] which then got "hacked" in
08:10<SmatZ>but it should be working in 0.6.0
08:11<SmatZ>even with variable length wagons
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08:11<@peter1138>Ammller: when i stopped, they were working
08:11<@peter1138>Ammller: then the new bridge system was introduced
08:12<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah, Tron screwed everything up ;)
08:12<Ammller>peter1138: bridges over a lot of things?
08:12<Celestar>SmatZ: about the train controller and stuff?
08:12<@peter1138>whatever you want to call it
08:13<Ammller>well, that is worth to delay bridge heads.
08:13<SmatZ>Celestar: there shouldn't be problem with that as long as wagons are not too short (as the newgrf spec says)
08:14<SmatZ>but if you have any problematic scenario, it has to be fixed
08:14<Eddi|zuHause3>but afaik Belugas was the last person to challenge bridges, i'm not sure how far he got
08:14<SmatZ>problematic were trans leaving depot
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08:14<@peter1138>Ammller: well, cbh was done *way* before that was introduced, heh
08:14<Celestar>SmatZ: there was.
08:15<Celestar>SmatZ: in the cbh branch.
08:15<Celestar>SmatZ: I'd like to resume it at some point, have you ever taken a look?
08:15<Ammller>peter1138: then you forgot to commit it to trunk :-)
08:16<Ammller>or was there a feature freeze for 0.5?
08:17<Ammller>hmm, no
08:17<Ammller>for 0.4.8 maybe :-)
08:17<Eddi|zuHause3>0.4.8 was a bugfix release
08:17<Eddi|zuHause3>0.4.5 was a "new" release
08:18<Eddi|zuHause3>bridge works were done parallel to 0.5.0 release, bridges were a 0.6.0 feature
08:18<Ammller>oh, I played to much trunk :-)
08:19<SmatZ>Celestar: there were a lot of changes since last CBH sync
08:19<Eddi|zuHause3>was CBH ever ported to C++?
08:20<Celestar>not sure
08:20<Celestar>SmatZ: ok basically it's easy
08:20<Celestar>SmatZ: I've taken apart MP_TUNNELBRIDGE and made an MP_TUNNEL (deal with it later), MP_STREET_BRIDGE and MP_RAILWAY_BRIDGE
08:21<SmatZ>yeah I saw :)
08:21<@peter1138>is there no space in MP_TUNNELBRIDGE? :o
08:21<Celestar>SmatZ: the idea was to have identicaly layouts in MP_STREET and MP_STREET_BRIDGE and MP_RAILWAY <=> MP_RAILWAY_BRIDGE
08:21<Celestar>peter1138: see the next statement
08:21<hylje>magic bridges!
08:21<Celestar>peter1138: this one reduced a LOT of special-casing
08:21<Celestar>peter1138: especially in the train controllers, pathfinders and shit
08:21<Celestar>peter1138: which can only work to our advantage (performance)
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08:22<Celestar>from my point of view, a lot of stuff in the code looked much cleaner
08:22<Gekz>mess the code up!
08:22<@peter1138>just asking as i know SmatZ liked to keep tunnels & bridges together
08:24<Celestar>in many place I just had case MP_RAILWAY: case MP_RAILWAY_BRIDGE:
08:24<Celestar>and that helped
08:25<@peter1138>heh, people have some odd concepts of multi-core processors
08:25<Noldo>on the forums?
08:25<Celestar>peter1138: "odd" is not the right word methinks
08:26<Eddi|zuHause3>didn't intel say they would release a parallelize-even-if-you-didn't-plan-to-do-so compiler?
08:26<Roest>i dunno what they want to achieve, the game runs more than fine on todays processors ven without multicore support
08:26<SmatZ>Celestar: you still need special handling for things like this:
08:26<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause3: that's what we've been doing since the Pentium.
08:26<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause3: instruction-level parallelism
08:27<Eddi|zuHause3>Celestar: on processor level, not on compiler level, afaik
08:27<SmatZ>or that situation shouldn't happen at all :)
08:28<Celestar>SmatZ: GTTS should be Z-aware
08:28<@peter1138>Roest: i think they want 32768x32768 maps or something incredibly stupid
08:28<@peter1138>SmatZ: actually, that track piece shouldn't be allowed there
08:28<Roest>i already have problems to fill 1024x1024 maps
08:28<SmatZ>Celestar: so pathfinders, signal update, TrainCheckIfLineEnds() .... there is not used GTTS
08:29<Celestar>SmatZ: we need to clean the code apparently (=
08:29<@peter1138>it's an invalid track, so we don't need to handle it
08:29<SmatZ>peter1138: yes, that's the better solution
08:29<hylje>peter1138: thankyou
08:29<Eddi|zuHause3>peter1138: but at that end there could start a new bridge
08:29<Eddi|zuHause3>which would make it an allowed tile configuration
08:30<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause3: but then there wouldn't be a drop
08:30<@peter1138>so it wouldn't matter
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08:30<SmatZ>but Belugas (I think) was talking about cliffs
08:30<Roest>talking about cleaning code, i saw in the gui stuff that alot of formerly static methods became members, i know that takes alot of refactoring but why didn't you do it completely? there's still some static methods left that would fit into that category
08:31<@peter1138>because we do it one step at a time
08:31<@peter1138>not all at once
08:31<SmatZ>Celestar: there is still code cleaning in progress :)
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08:32<SmatZ>but source size, compilation time and binary size grows :(
08:32<Celestar>yeah :(
08:32<Celestar>we could go back to assembler \o/
08:32<Celestar>er wait
08:32<Roest>peter1138: ok, it just seemed a bit odd, since you probably have to modify so many files, why leave some out
08:33<@peter1138>changing files multiple times is not a problem
08:33<@Rubidium>Roest: sed/perl handle changing many files quite well
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08:33<Roest>i stumbled over yesterday when i needed MakeWindowDirty
08:33<Roest>which is still static
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08:35<@Rubidium>MakeWindowDirty doesn't exist
08:35<Roest>the changing many files concerns me more from the point of view of a patch maintainer
08:36<Eddi|zuHause3>you could ask the person responsible for the commit to tell you the sed/perl command being used ;)
08:36<Roest>sorry SetWindowDirty
08:36<@peter1138>being able to follow changes in the change log concerns us more
08:37<Celestar>I must have eaten summin really bad
08:37<@Rubidium>Roest: C++ doesn't like calling functions on NULL objects
08:37<SmatZ>Celestar: :-x
08:38<Eddi|zuHause3>damn, i loathe C
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08:38<Roest>Rubidium: care to elaborate? how could this be called on a NULL object?
08:38<Celestar>SmatZ: ?
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08:38<@Rubidium>Roest: well SetWindowDirty(NULL) is allowed
08:39<Roest>does that make sense?
08:39<SmatZ>Celestar: do you feel like :-x, don't you? (after eating something really bad)
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08:39<Celestar>SmatZ: without going too much in detail.... I generate noticable thrust when sittin on the loo
08:39<@Rubidium>still, testing this == NUL is kinda strange
08:40<Eddi|zuHause3>if (window) window->SetDirty();
08:40<@peter1138>when do we ever try to make a null window dirty?
08:40<SmatZ>once you call a virtual function on a NULL object, you fail
08:41<@Rubidium>peter1138: when writing something that would go to the console when the console isn't open
08:41<SmatZ>peter1138: probably it is more convenient to call SetWindowDirty(Getblabla) than "Window *w = blabla; if (w !=NULL) SetWindowDirty(w)"
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08:42<Eddi|zuHause3>Rubidium: could the console be a window of size 0 instead?
08:43<@Rubidium>could be
08:43<@Rubidium>would just mean you can have one window less
08:43<@Rubidium>but there are more cases
08:44<Eddi|zuHause3>i thought we have no real window limit anymore? [except the viewport limit, which is about to be "fixed", i thought]
08:44<@Rubidium>also when the signal density changes
08:44<@Rubidium>if the configure patches is open, that needs to be updated
08:44<Celestar>tesing (this == NULL) is not good methinks
08:44<@Rubidium>and there are many places that do that
08:44<SmatZ>where is Tron :)
08:45<SmatZ>@seen Tron
08:45<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: Tron was last seen in #openttd 9 weeks, 3 days, 23 hours, 21 minutes, and 35 seconds ago: <Tron> gcc 2.95 is plain obsolete (even has several bugs in its C++ part). further at the very least the justifications given are extremely oversimplified.
08:45<@peter1138>you all pissed him off
08:45<Eddi|zuHause3>but is it really that much of a problem to check wether the window is open before trying to mark it dirty?
08:46<@peter1138>it's easier to just not change it for the sake of changing it
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08:47<Roest>where's the OO guy when you need him
08:48<@Rubidium>SmatZ: so for *every* free we do we must check whether the variable to free is not NULL?
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08:48<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause3: and for every realloc we must check whether the variable to realloc is not NULL?
08:48<@Rubidium>instead of letting free/realloc to handle it properly
08:49*HMage maybe understood it improperly, but free(NULL) is a problem
08:49<Noldo>no it's not
08:49<Celestar>double free() is not a good idea
08:49<Celestar>*nixes are very agressive towards it
08:50<Eddi|zuHause3>Rubidium: wouldn't be necessary if you had an "InvalidWindow" object instead of a NULL-Pointer for non-open windows
08:50<@peter1138>free(NULL); free(NULL); is not a problem ;)
08:50<Roest>free tibet!
08:51<Eddi|zuHause3>which would simply do nothing on a call InvalidWindow->SetDirty()
08:51<@peter1138>sentinel objects? :o
08:51<ln>HMage: free(NULL); is not a problem, see the C standard.
08:51<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause3: which means making all window functions virtual and therefor slower
08:52<@Rubidium>and defining *everything* twice
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08:53<@Rubidium>once for the invalid and once for the valid ones
08:53<Celestar>hm ..
08:53<Eddi|zuHause3>hm... i never really understood the use for non-virtual functions
08:53<Celestar>a double free is something completely differen than a free(NULL);
08:53<Celestar>free(NULL); is perfectly allowed in C
08:54<Celestar>C++ doesn't really use free anyway
08:54<@Rubidium>and maybe malloc should return a sentinel valid thing too so we have no null pointer dereferences anymore
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08:55<Eddi|zuHause3>but is a check for (window==NULL) really that much slower than a switch(<polymorphic object type>) {<call virtual function>}?
08:55<Celestar>peter1138: free(NULL); free(NULL); is not a problem. free(non_null_pointer); free(same_non_null_pointer); is a problem
08:55<@peter1138>of course :)
08:55<Celestar>how much time are we spending in the window code anyway?
08:56<@peter1138> < hehe
08:57<Celestar>who coded that compiler?
08:59<Roest>me, sorry my first attempts with blitzbasic
08:59<Celestar>.oO(writing a C compiler in Basic)
09:00<Celestar>10 PRINT "Hello This is a C compiler written in BASIC. It doesn't work yet"
09:00<Celestar>20 GOTO 10
09:00<Celestar>30 END
09:00<Roest>actually i did a deassembler in basic on a c64, like 20 years ago
09:00<Celestar>c64 \o/
09:00<hylje>Celestar: well writing a C compiler in C would be more silly :-)
09:00<Celestar>best pooter ever
09:01<Ammller>is there a support of loading a TTDP save in OTTD?
09:01<Celestar>hylje: well, tell the gcc people
09:01<Celestar>Ammller: mostly yes :)
09:01<hylje>(hence the ":-)")
09:01<Ammller>renaming to .sav
09:01<Ammller>isn't enough
09:01<Celestar>gcc isn't a compiler. gcc is a compiler suite
09:01<@Rubidium>Ammller: just putting it into the save directory and opening should work.
09:01<@peter1138>don't rename to .sav
09:01<@Rubidium>if it doesn't, then it contains rubbish that OpenTTD doesn't understand
09:01<Noldo>has anyone done any profiling recently
09:02<DaleStan>Renaming to .sav is likely counterproductive.
09:02<Eddi|zuHause3>nobody ever did profiling
09:02<Ammller>like the canset demo
09:02<Eddi|zuHause3>it's all a conspiracy
09:02<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause3: wrong I did lots of profiling
09:02<Noldo>Celestar: I remember that, byt it was a while back wasn't it?
09:02*HMage did a google code search for safe_free. Postfix, samba, snarf, php, ettercap, bind, and so on do check for x != NULL before free(x);
09:02<Ammller>openttd: /home/marcel/bin/ottd/trunk/src/station_map.h:61: StationGfx GetStationGfx(TileIndex): Assertion `IsTileType(t, MP_STATION)' failed.
09:02<Eddi|zuHause3>he's part of the conspiracy as well!!
09:02<Celestar>Noldo: like rev 10500 or 11000
09:03<Celestar>Ammller: vanilla trunk?
09:03<@Rubidium>loading a TTDP game ofcourse
09:04<Ammller>hmm, not sure try agian...
09:04<Eddi|zuHause3>i'd blame peter1138 :)
09:05<Ammller>Celestar: wasn't, had engine_pool in it...
09:05<Ammller>try again with vanilla :-)
09:07<@peter1138>HMage: work arounds for broken systems. free(NULL) is defined.
09:07<HMage>peter1138: I know. But it's not so hard to be a little bit more portable.
09:08<@peter1138>there's portable, and supporting broken shit
09:08*HMage won't argue
09:08<Noldo>Celestar: how did you do it? Do you remember any general results?
09:08<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah, like MorphOS :p
09:08<HMage>anyway, regarding double free. I didn't follow the conversation, but double free() is really a vulnerability.
09:09<@peter1138>glibc detects it and throws a huge error, these days
09:10<Eddi|zuHause3>but the discussion wasn't about double operations, it was about checking for NULL before an operation
09:10<@peter1138>hard to get wrong ;)
09:11<Eddi|zuHause3>and i despise C
09:11<HMage>and I despise C++
09:12<Roest>can anyone that has time take a look at the better graphs, i got permission from the original author, so it'd be interesting what needs to be done to get them accepted
09:12<Eddi|zuHause3>they programmed around every major invention... like they used unions instead of polymorphism, and #define/#include combinations instead of templates
09:13<Eddi|zuHause3>and now i've to work with that junk
09:13<Ammller>Roest: ECS support, some don't like the black background
09:13<Roest>yea the ECS support is on my list already
09:14<Eddi|zuHause3>what has ECS to do with trunk?
09:14<HMage>Eddi|zuHause3: tell me of a C coder that is braindead enough to use unions :D
09:14<Ammller>well, I meant newcargo support :-)
09:14<Roest>nothing but it shouldn't have some weird behavior with it either
09:15<@peter1138>nothing wrong with unions
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09:15<Eddi|zuHause3>they throw char* and an enum variable around the place, and you have to switch(enum) and cast the pointer to something sensible
09:16<Eddi|zuHause3>instead of using C++ and let it be handled by polymorphism
09:16<Ammller>Celestar: same assert with clean trunk
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09:17<Ammller>have I to handle newgrf somhow special?
09:17<SmatZ>Ammller: it can be saved in a TTDP version OTTD doesn't know
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09:18<Ammller>maybe I need to add the grfs first?
09:18<SmatZ>TTDP savegame should contain newgrfs it uses
09:18<Ammller>maybe the rivers?
09:19<Ammller>no assert has something with the stations
09:19<DaleStan>My guess is that Open is balking at the presence of L8 in the Patch save.
09:19<Eddi|zuHause3>Ammller: can you find out what is on the tile it chokes on?
09:20<SmatZ>OTTD ignores most of TTDP extra chunks
09:20<SmatZ>except newgrf list and ttdp version
09:20<Eddi|zuHause3>like print the information on the assert line
09:22<SmatZ>with debugger, you could see parameters passed
09:24<Ammller>try to run with debugger
09:24<Denyerec>Are cloverleaf rail junctions bad?
09:24<Ammller>did that once with the server
09:24<Denyerec>Cos I always seem to end up with them :S
09:26<Ammller>SmatZ: how is the command for var output, in that case TileIndex?
09:26<Ammller>runned with gdb
09:27<SmatZ>hmm I don't remember, I use ddd
09:27<Roest>Denyerec: look at the junctions in the manual, they also state the pros and cons
09:27<Denyerec>The main wiki ?
09:29<Ammller>I thought is print <var> :-)
09:29<Eddi|zuHause3>my junctions always coincide with a station
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09:32<Denyerec>i can't find a 2-line sideline to 4-line mainline merge/T intersection in the wiki
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09:34<Eddi|zuHause3>invent one?
09:34<Roest>hmm somehow my dedicated server with min_players=1 was unpaused and is now in 2098
09:34<Eddi|zuHause3>be creative?
09:35<Celestar>do a proper 4-line mainline
09:35<Celestar>LRLR instead of LLRR :)
09:35<Denyerec>Hmm. I had been stuck in LLRR thinking I think
09:35<Eddi|zuHause3>Eichenberg station has a LLRRX entry
09:35<Celestar>Eichenberg seems special
09:35<Celestar>Munich central station has LRLRLRLRLR entry
09:36<Eddi|zuHause3>but they have big problems with that, because trains from Halle to Kassel have to cross the entire station area
09:36<Eddi|zuHause3>or drive on the left track
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09:36<Denyerec>if you have LRLR mainline, then your sideline need only merge with one half of it, right?
09:37<Celestar>well I'm trying to build somewhat realistic networks. There are no junctions in the middle of nowhere :)
09:37<Eddi|zuHause3>if you merge a LRLR with a LR you end up with a LRLRLR, easy ;)
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09:37<Denyerec>Depending what's on the sideline though it could overload one half of the mainline
09:40<Eddi|zuHause3>we need doubletracks on one tile
09:41<Celestar>we need to rewrite the entire game engine then Eddi|zuHause3
09:41<Denyerec>am I also right in thinking that an exit singnal will indicate to an entrance signal if the exit signal is clear?
09:41<Eddi|zuHause3>the entrance signal is red when all exit signals are red
09:42<Denyerec>and the exit signals otherwise juse behave like standard signals
09:43<Denyerec>That makes perfect sense
09:43<Denyerec>however I am still wary of combo signals
09:43<Denyerec>I mean why have entry combo exit instead of entry standard exit
09:43<Eddi|zuHause3>combo signals are used to relay the next exit signal state to the previous entrance signal
09:44<Roest>get yapp and rid of that nightmare
09:44<Denyerec>ah, so you can't get standard signals between the two if you want them to "connect"?
09:44<Eddi|zuHause3>you can live without them most of the time
09:45*Denyerec doesn't know what YAPP is
09:45<Denyerec>I just have the standard ottd download
09:46<Eddi|zuHause3>yapp is "make the signals what they are supposed to be"
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09:52<Eddi|zuHause3>it allows stations to work like this:,%2012.%20Jul%201933.png
09:54<@peter1138>and it confuses all the people who expect TTDP-style ;)
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09:54<Eddi|zuHause3>we need to lead the TTDP guys into the light ;)
09:54*Denyerec is confused :)
09:55<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause3: that looks like a reasonable station
09:55<Eddi|zuHause3>thank you ;)
09:57<Denyerec>I am certain the PBS signals must be simpler to use
09:57<Gekz>do you guys destroy parts of towns to build stations?
09:57<Gekz>or do you build around them??
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09:58<Denyerec>Eddi, normally I have to place signals every few tiles to keep trains moving along a long section of track. What's the deal with that on the PBS signalling ?
09:58<Progman>destroy parts? sometimes we destroy the whole city ;)
09:58<Eddi|zuHause3>Gekz: in the picture, the main station was placed way outside the cities, and the cities grew around it, the "S-Bahn" line through the cities was built destroying a lot of houses
09:59<Eddi|zuHause3>the trams just couldn't handle the amount of passengers anymore
09:59<Noldo>Denyerec: it won't help with that
09:59<Eddi|zuHause3>and subways are not possible
09:59<Gekz>Eddi|zuHause3: how many trees did you have to build
09:59<Gekz>and subways would kick ass.
09:59<Denyerec>so you must still place signals every 3 tiles?
10:00<Eddi|zuHause3>Gekz: i didn't use trees, i waited for the rating to raise because of transport service
10:00<Gekz>Eddi|zuHause3: how many years did that take? lol
10:00<Eddi|zuHause3>Denyerec: typically, one signal per train length
10:00<@peter1138>that's a silly distance :o
10:00<Denyerec>I read in openttdcoop they signal every 2nd tile]
10:00<Gekz>also today I lost a train by flooding xD
10:01<Denyerec>Sopresumably this is incorrect
10:01<Gekz>peter1138: whats a good distance then lol
10:01<Eddi|zuHause3>which is around the station length, i.e. 8(+1) tiles
10:01<Roest>nice station eddi
10:01<Eddi|zuHause3>Denyerec: don't listen to the coop guys, they know nothing ;)
10:01<Celestar>they know a bit,
10:01<@peter1138>Gekz: 14:52 Eddi|zuHause3> Denyerec: typically, one signal per train length
10:01<Gekz>I noticed.
10:02<@peter1138>i do longer
10:02<Roest>size does matter
10:02<Gekz>Eddi|zuHause3: what newgrf do you use for trees?
10:02<Gekz>stolen trees?
10:02<HMage>I have an offtopic question
10:02<Gekz>they dont work with alpineclimate -_-
10:03<Eddi|zuHause3>i know
10:03<Gekz>it bugs me
10:03<HMage>the question: do you know if shrink-wrap licenses are allowed in your country or not?
10:03<Eddi|zuHause3>but this was not an alpine game
10:03<Gekz>I dont like the default trees
10:03<Roest>i turn off trees anyway
10:03<Eddi|zuHause3>newindustries don't work in alpine climate either [except you mean arctic climate]
10:03<Gekz>no I meant alpine
10:04<Gekz>arctic is nice too
10:04<Gekz>I might go back to arctic
10:04<Gekz>I dont like ECS very much
10:05<Eddi|zuHause3>what i hate with the ECS is how it forces the "difficulty" on you
10:05<Gekz>it does?
10:05<Gekz>I just dont like the entire concept of it.
10:06<Eddi|zuHause3>yes, it forces you to keep rating unreasonably high, and it closes down serviced industries
10:08<Gekz>I dont like the graphics of them
10:08<Gekz>they dont fit in
10:08<Eddi|zuHause3>that is a different problem
10:08<Gekz>its still a problem
10:08<Gekz>Eddi|zuHause3: do you use some kind of new industry?
10:09<Eddi|zuHause3>i tried a few times... i ended up doing a passenger network always ;)
10:10<Gekz>you dont do anything other than passenger networks?
10:10<Denyerec>I wondr if passengers care where they're going
10:10<Eddi|zuHause3>Denyerec: with the passenger destinations patch, yes
10:10<Denyerec>because if they do not, how do you decide to do inter-city or just inner-city networks
10:11<Gekz>Eddi|zuHause3: I guess you use paxdest?
10:11<Eddi|zuHause3>Gekz: no, usually i fit cargo trains between the passenger trains
10:11<Eddi|zuHause3>yes, in the game from the picture at least
10:11<Gekz>what revision do you use?
10:11<Gekz>must be a quite older one
10:12<Eddi|zuHause3>what do you mean "old"?
10:12<Gekz>about 500 revisions ago
10:12<Gekz>or greater
10:12<Eddi|zuHause3>that game was with gonozals patch pack r12180 or so
10:13<Eddi|zuHause3>don't remember
10:13<Eddi|zuHause3>something with 80
10:13-!-Osai`off is now known as Osai
10:13<Eddi|zuHause3>r12180, yes
10:13<Gekz>12751, is current
10:13<Gekz>it its aged
10:14<Celestar>oh man
10:14<Celestar>I haven't played in a LONG time
10:14<Celestar>wtf is a Conditional Order Jump
10:14<Celestar>and wtf is a timetable?
10:14<Eddi|zuHause3>there was not that much new since then, only the orders stuff
10:14<Eddi|zuHause3>and a few YAPP updates
10:14<Eddi|zuHause3>which would break the savegame anyway
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10:16<Gekz>Celestar: I've never understood either of those things :/
10:16<Gekz>so I disregard them
10:16<hylje>one doesnt need to know much
10:16<hylje>but there's always extra for those up for the enthusiastic
10:17<Eddi|zuHause3>timetables need a synchronisation clock
10:17<Roest>i don't understand timetables either, what are they good for?
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10:18<Gekz>is someone planning to rewrite paxdest?
10:18<hylje>Roest: reasonably synchronized traffic
10:18<hylje>but indeed they could use some more sync
10:18<Denyerec>must I recompile to use YAPP?
10:18<Denyerec>or can I add it as a patch or such?
10:18<hylje>patches are source
10:18<Eddi|zuHause3>,%2014.%20Aug%201923.png <- THAT game is old ;)
10:18<hylje>so you need to recompile to have them
10:19<Roest>i have a compiled binary in the yapp thread posted, but that has copy&paste too
10:19<Denyerec>I don't have the tools, experience or patience for compiling things on WIndows :(
10:20<Denyerec>You have a .6 stable binary for download
10:20<hylje>1. install ubuntu 2. ??? 3. profit
10:20<Eddi|zuHause3>Denyerec: there is a tool called "buildottd", which will handle that for you
10:20<Denyerec>I have ubuntu on my server machine, but need Windows for work purposes.
10:20<Denyerec>Until Adobe and Nikon release their suite of tools natively on Linux... I am a slave to Gates.
10:20<Roest>3rd post on that page
10:20<Denyerec>thankyou Roest
10:21<yorick>that's why dual boot has been invented, Denyerec
10:21<Eddi|zuHause3>dual boot sucks
10:21<yorick>why exactly?
10:21<Celestar>dual boot is pointless, we have virtualization :)
10:21<Eddi|zuHause3>it forces you to shut down linux, it's blasphemy!
10:21<Denyerec>I have a hard enough time keeping a single-boot machine form crashing and burning :)
10:21<Gekz>Eddi|zuHause3: lol the whole cliffedge thing!
10:21<yorick>windows, you mean?
10:21<Gekz>I still remember that
10:22<yorick>people that have hard times keeping windows running and therefor don't want to switch to linux :')
10:22<Gekz>its late
10:22<Ammller>any change for that to trunk?
10:22<Gekz>where the tracks are, instead of it just being on the lang
10:23<Eddi|zuHause3>it has old PBS!!, and snow in temperate!
10:23<Gekz>I still dont understand PBS
10:23<SmatZ>Ammller: I find that patch rather useful :-)
10:23<Denyerec>I think I understand PBS, but I am not sure.
10:23<Denyerec>Seems to me like you put a signal where you want a train to wait
10:23<Denyerec>and they figure out the rest.
10:24<Denyerec>Though I'm not sure :)
10:24<Denyerec>On my RoRo stations i put exit signals on the entrance to the platform
10:24<Eddi|zuHause3>that is exactly the philosophy behind it, yes ;)
10:24<Denyerec>I don't know what to do with YAPP signals in this context.
10:24<Vikthor>Place only the entrance signal
10:24<Eddi|zuHause3>you don't place signals at the platform entrance
10:25<Eddi|zuHause3>only at the platform exit
10:25<Roest>seems to be pretty clear, you place yapp signals where you want trains to wait
10:25<Eddi|zuHause3>and on the junction entrance
10:25<Roest>and the unsure people can place one way signals even though that isnt necessary
10:25<Denyerec>if you have 2 ways everywhere
10:25<Roest>but then i never played with yapp yet
10:26<Denyerec>won't trains, like... collide often? :)
10:26<Roest>nope, see how these signals only have one direction?
10:26<@Rubidium>if you edit junctions with trains in them: yes
10:26<Denyerec>You just said you "could" place one ways, whith kinda implied that the default state was a 2-way
10:26<Denyerec>so the YAPP signals are 1-way only, or one-way by default...
10:27<Eddi|zuHause3>Denyerec: the default behaviour is that trains can pass signals that do not face their way
10:27<Gekz>I still dont believe I flooded a train
10:27<Roest>yea you can place explicit one signals even though you dont need to
10:27<Gekz>taht was retarded
10:27<Denyerec>And an explicit will prevent a train from passing it outright.
10:27<Eddi|zuHause3>but it will consider that before starting from the signal
10:27<Denyerec>Wheras a normal YAPP can be passed the wrong way.
10:27<Eddi|zuHause3>so there is no chance of a crash
10:27-!-shodan [] has quit [Quit: Client Exiting]
10:27<Denyerec>What about forced servicing? Right now I use a backward signal on a fork to force station-approach trains to service.
10:28<Denyerec>Is there some better method?
10:28<Eddi|zuHause3>remove the track?
10:28<Denyerec>The breakdown noise really annoys me ;)
10:28<Gekz>turn breakdowns off then
10:28<Denyerec>That would feel like cheating ;)
10:28<Eddi|zuHause3>trains search paths through depots, you don't need the track
10:28-!-GoneWacko [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:28<Gekz>you're forcing them to be serviced
10:28<Eddi|zuHause3>also, you can use "goto depot" orders
10:29<Denyerec>That's not cheating, it's just... Very safe.
10:29-!-planetmaker [] has quit [Quit: bye!]
10:29<Denyerec>OK I'll go have a fight with this.
10:29<Denyerec>THen I'll be back to ask about load balancing ;)
10:30<Denyerec>Great work on all this by the way chaps. TTD was one of my favorites many years ago, and it's great to see it alive and kicking. So many modern games are just.... wrong somehow.
10:30<Denyerec>Either too dumb or too over-graphical or just... samey.
10:32<Gekz>I agree
10:32<Gekz>and I'm only young >_>
10:32<Gekz>the newest game I play is Baldurs Gate lol
10:34<@Rubidium>the newest game I play is OpenTTD... freshly compiled before playing
10:34<Denyerec>As far as FPS go, I am still with Battlefield2. Beyond that, the only other thing I play is OpenTTD.
10:34<Gekz>it doesnt count1
10:35<Celestar>hm ... anyone in US or Far east/australia here?
10:35<Denyerec>Oh, and a little bit of Teeworlds ;)
10:35<Gekz>Celestar: Sydney
10:35<@Rubidium>Celestar: not anymore
10:35<@Rubidium>Celestar: you should've asked one or two months ago
10:35<Celestar>Gekz: could you ping and tell me the rough rtts ?
10:36<Gekz>rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 337.422/340.816/360.691/5.165 ms
10:36<Gekz>is that what you wanted?
10:36<@Rubidium>booh... Gekz threw all kinds of random stuff to a pretty 'lady' :(
10:37<Celestar>... why is THAT high
10:37<@Rubidium>Celestar: goes via US?
10:37<Celestar>Rubidium: apparently
10:37<Celestar>Gekz: could you traceroute?:)
10:37<Eddi|zuHause3>i have rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 75.342/149.448/192.173/52.607 ms, but i'm not that far away ;)
10:38<Gekz>i'll pastebin it
10:38<@Rubidium>my traceroute to goes via London, New York, Palo Alto and then to Australia
10:38<Celestar>via the PARC apparently :P
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10:39-!-mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
10:39*peter1138 yawns
10:39<Celestar>thanks Gekz
10:40<Eddi|zuHause3>i get no reverse DNS half the time
10:40<Celestar>yeah :S
10:40<Gekz>my eyes hurt
10:41<@Rubidium>Gekz: then go sleep... it's way past bedtime for you
10:41<Gekz>no, I meant that traceroute
10:44<Eddi|zuHause3>great... from the university computer i get 30 times "* * *"
10:45<Celestar>know that problem
10:45<Gekz>proxy ftw
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10:46<Eddi|zuHause3>why should that have anything to do with proxies?
10:47<Gekz>filters the packets
10:47<Gekz>and says no dice.
10:47<Eddi|zuHause3>a) i don't think they use proxies, b) why should they filter outgoing packets?
10:48<Gekz>our school does it
10:48<Gekz>best way to find out is if you ping
10:48<Gekz>and it says packet filtered
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10:49<Eddi|zuHause3>school != university
10:50<Gekz>Eddi|zuHause3: actually, the government filters it in TAFE, schools and Universities
10:50<Gekz>its retarded
10:50<Eddi|zuHause3>what is a TAFE?
10:50<Gekz>a vocational school basically
10:50<SmatZ>government filters internet?
10:51<SmatZ>that's bad
10:51<Gekz>SmatZ: tis bad
10:51<Gekz>forums are blocked
10:51<Gekz>ebay is blocked
10:51<Gekz>anything remotely useful is blocked
10:51<+glx>you are in China?
10:51<Gekz>Australia mate.
10:51<Gekz>welcome to the dark side of a Chinese dictator humping prime minister
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10:53<Denyerec>WTF Ebay is blocked in australia ?
10:53<Denyerec>Since when did you guys become a facist state?
10:53<Denyerec>My GF is Aussie and we were thinking of moving back there.... but if it's getting that bad, screw it.
10:54<Eddi|zuHause3>how the hell are you supposed to be doing scientific work if you can't reach google?
10:54-!-dR3x4cK [~Miranda@] has joined #openttd
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10:55<Volley>Eddi: slowly, very slowly ...
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10:58<Digitalfox>Eddi|zuHause3 going to the library like 10 years ago =0
10:58<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah, right...
10:58<Roest>more liek 15
11:00<Gekz>Denyerec: I didnt say in Australia
11:00<Gekz>Denyerec: I said at educational institutions
11:00<Denyerec>That's still pretty dire.
11:00<Gekz>Eddi|zuHause3: you can reach googe
11:00<Gekz>its just filtered
11:00<Gekz>it keyword searches EVERYTHING
11:01<Gekz>if it finds forum, shop, email, porn, mp3, it blocks it
11:01<Gekz>yes, not media files
11:01<Gekz>even if its a fucking french alphabet mp3
11:01<Gekz>which you needed for the test you had in 20 minutes
11:01<Eddi|zuHause3>get an encrypted proxy in a free country
11:01<Gekz>and you were nearly fucked when you had to spell your name
11:01<Hagbard>Denyerec: You play Teeworlds? Who told you about that?
11:01<Gekz>Eddi|zuHause3: all ports but 80 are blocked
11:01<Denyerec>Void, from #Typo3 on freenode.
11:02<hylje>Gekz: http proxies, probably also https works
11:02<Eddi|zuHause3>they block ssh? you sad person
11:02<Gekz>hylje: https is 443
11:02<Gekz>anything with the word proxy in it is blocked
11:02-!-mikl [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:02<Gekz>Eddi|zuHause3: and ftp
11:02<Hagbard>Denyerec: Ohh, he's there too. :)
11:03<Gekz>Eddi|zuHause3: and!
11:03<Gekz>no local webservers
11:03<Gekz>I was like wtf
11:03<hylje> doesn't even go past your network port
11:03<hylje>why would it be blocked?
11:03<Gekz>hylje: its a loopback device
11:03<Gekz>it has to leave and return
11:03<Gekz>goes to the router, which filters it
11:03<Hagbard>Uhm no?
11:03<Gekz>at least, on my system
11:04<Eddi|zuHause3> does not ever leave the network card
11:04<Hagbard> works without a network connection...
11:04<Eddi|zuHause3>or even enter it
11:04<Gekz>apparently, in my case, localhost and are different >_>
11:04<Hagbard>Gekz: Wuut?!
11:04<Gekz> is blocked if I'm on their network
11:04<Gekz>while localhost is not
11:08-!-stillunknown [] has joined #openttd
11:14<yorick>it refers to the same
11:14<yorick>localhost is in hosts <<
11:15-!-planetmaker [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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11:17<Volley>hmm ... what happens on IPv6? do there still numbers like exist?
11:17<Gekz>= localhost
11:18<Volley>( just a silly idea, because if fails, there maybe is no IPv4 network at all ... )
11:19<Noldo>localhost is just a dns name
11:19<Gekz>Volley: ::1 = localhost
11:19<Gekz>in ipv6
11:19<blathijs>Gekz: mysql optimizes localhost to a unix socket, while is always TCP, so localhost and can be interpreted differently by programs
11:20<Gekz>blathijs: ah that might be why then
11:26<Eddi|zuHause3>Volley: there's a certain IPv6 prefix to encapsulate all IPv4 addresses
11:26<Eddi|zuHause3>so IPv4 is a subspace of IPv6
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11:55<Eddi|zuHause3>i always understand "MAMA"
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12:08<Denyerec>hey Roest you there?
12:10<Denyerec>Or anyone that has tried to use Roest's YAPP file ?
12:10<Yexo>not exactly that file, but I've used yapp
12:10<Denyerec>get an error saying it can't find copypaste when I try and launch
12:11<Yexo>you need to download copypast.grf
12:11*Denyerec hunts
12:13<Eddi|zuHause3>there's also a binary that does not include copypaste
12:14<Eddi|zuHause3>meaning the yapp thread
12:14<Denyerec>thankyou :D
12:15<Denyerec>Now if there was an undo.grf... :D
12:16<Denyerec>I am to understand, then, that the only signal type I need really with YAPP is that one electric signal.
12:16<Denyerec>No more mucking around.
12:16<Yexo> is a build without copypaste
12:17<Denyerec>Out of interest is there an "Undo the last thing you did because you're a stupid clumsy fool" patch?
12:17<Yexo>although you can chose to use normal one-way signals for long pieces of straight track, to improve performance
12:17<Yexo>no, there isn't
12:17<Denyerec>ah and just use YAPPs at junctions.
12:17<Yexo>but personally I just use yapp everywhere
12:18<@Belugas>Denyerec, if you're using svn, it's called by the command "svn revert". Although, i doubt it is waht you'r looking for ^_^
12:18<Denyerec>No, I often misplace statiosn and stuff
12:18<Denyerec>an undo would help a great deal :D
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12:21<@Belugas>don't count on it in the any near or distant futur ;) it's not a word processing program you're running ;)
12:22<@Belugas>the best think, is to have autosaves as frequently as possible
12:22<@Belugas>yes, it will sow down the game
12:22<@Belugas>but at least, you'llbe able to go back to when the problematic action was not yet performed
12:25-!-dR3x4cK [~Miranda@] has quit [Quit: dR3x4cK]
12:29<Hagbard>Giant mushroom:
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12:35<Eddi|zuHause3>how dangerous is that link?
12:36<Noldo>it's just a mushroom
12:36<Yexo>Belugas: can you help me with some savegame stuff?
12:36-!-Maedhros [] has joined #openttd
12:37<Yexo>I would like to store an array of variable size in the vehicle struct. In the code I use a std::vector for that, but how would I save it in the savegame
12:37<Eddi|zuHause3>well, if a random guy posts a very short link in the middle of an unrelated/idle chat, the best case is that it's a snowball game
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12:39<Noldo>how can I add compiler flags with openttd's configure?
12:40<Noldo>I tried CFLAGS enviroment variable but nothing gets added
12:40<+glx>configure --help
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12:40<@Belugas>don't think we use vectors and saving them, Yexo
12:40<Yexo>Can I just call SlObject multiple times in Save_VEHS if I call it the same number oftimes in Load_VEHS?
12:40<@Belugas>and savegame would need fix size, i believe
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12:41<Maedhros>Yexo: SL_LST is used for std::lists, so you may be able to use or adapt that
12:41<@Belugas>i would create a new chunk, personally
12:41<@Belugas>hello Maedhros :)
12:41<Yexo>thx, I'll have a look at SL_LST
12:41<Maedhros>heya Belugas :)
12:45<Noldo>ha got it
12:45-!-mikl [] has joined #openttd
12:46<Noldo>CC and CXX worked as CC=foobar ./configure but CFLAGS didn't
12:47<+glx>,...,...,...CFLAGS=* | --CFLAGS=*) CFLAGS="$optarg";;
12:47<+glx>it should wokr
12:47<@peter1138>./configure CFLAGS="foo" works
12:49<Digitalfox>Can't wait for OpenGFX to be completed.. What is already done is amazing, the graphics look so much better than the original =0 I just miss new bridges :(
12:50<@peter1138>is it more than 25% done yet?
12:50<Digitalfox>yes =0
12:50<Eddi|zuHause3>what is the problem with using newbridges with opengfx?
12:51<Digitalfox>3100 sprites of 6990 =0
12:51<Digitalfox>Eddi|zuHause3 they don't look good..
12:52<Eddi|zuHause3>some of them do
12:52<Digitalfox>But not all ;)
12:52<@peter1138>Yexo: checkout of the speclist stuff in station_cmd.cpp
12:53<Digitalfox>But new bridges from thgergo looks promising :)
12:53<Eddi|zuHause3>you mean the cantilever replacements?
12:54<Kloopy>Bridges with corners and points!
12:54<Yexo>peter1138: What I need is much simpler than that, more like vehicle->cargo in vehicle.cpp
12:54<Yexo>I just converted my vector to a list because that was actually better
12:56<Eddi|zuHause3>vector and list shouldn't differ much from a saving point of view
12:56<Eddi|zuHause3>hm... dot is taking ages on this tree...
12:57<Eddi|zuHause3>at least i hope it's a tree
12:57<Digitalfox>Eddi|zuHause3 this
12:57<Eddi|zuHause3>a download link tells me nothing... get a file description
12:59<Eddi|zuHause3>"don't use the word 'new' in names, because it gets old very quickly"
12:59<Denyerec>Is it normal to get really annoyed with the fact that the map isn't flat? :D
12:59<Eddi|zuHause3>no, the more hilly the map the better
12:59<hylje>yeah, until one gets better and wanting difficulty
12:59<@Belugas>no, it's not normal. it's not REALISTIC
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13:01<Eddi|zuHause3>anyway, we need higher pillar distances for suspension bridges
13:02<hylje>and beefy pillars
13:02<@Belugas>the whole pillar system needs refit
13:02<@Belugas>or rather... expansion
13:02<hylje>wide bridges!
13:03<Eddi|zuHause3>you could "simulate" wide bridges by having a front half and a back half bridge
13:03<@Belugas>just need to put two bridges side by side ;)
13:03<Eddi|zuHause3>but for that we need more bridge "slots"
13:03<hylje>Belugas: yeah but to have the gfx merge neatly into one "wide" bridge
13:04<Eddi|zuHause3>"merging" bridges automatically will fail as soon as you have more than 2 next to each other
13:05<Eddi|zuHause3>but yes, doubletrack bridges would be awesome
13:05<hylje>Eddi|zuHause3: it'd work like original stations -- 2 stations next to each other would produce a hall structure, 3 would produce two with hall structure and one without. this was given the stations were built at once
13:06<Eddi|zuHause3>but you can't build two bridges at once
13:06-!-Wolf01 [] has joined #openttd
13:06<hylje>at the time being :)
13:06<@Belugas>i wonder what would happen if tow side by side bridges would not draw back-side sprites on one and front-side sprite on the other...
13:06<hylje>actually, it'd be better to require building wide bridges at once
13:06<Eddi|zuHause3>the suggestion with having manually to select a front and a back bridge would make more sense and is already possible with the current system
13:07<Wolf01>:O drag&drop build bridges?
13:07<Eddi|zuHause3>that won't work ;)
13:07<@Belugas>no, that's nt what i have in mind
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13:15*Lakie gives up on
13:16<Lakie>damn thing keeps saying this provider doesn't exist when its preview tools can actively use it. o_O
13:16<Roest>SmatZ: argh
13:16<SmatZ>what Roest?
13:17<Roest>IsTileDepotType -> IsDepotTypeTile
13:17<Digitalfox>Any way of using US Road set with newbridges when using the old road look?
13:17<SmatZ>Roest: yeah, my work
13:17*SmatZ is proud of it
13:21<Maedhros>Digitalfox: i don't understand - which old road look?
13:24<hylje>Rome: Transport Tycoon
13:25<Eddi|zuHause3>Digitalfox: don't you have a REAL screenshot?
13:25<Eddi|zuHause3>this is hurting eyes
13:25<Digitalfox>Eddi|zuHause3: What's wrong with this one? It's PNG like you like ;)
13:26-!-mikl [] has quit [Quit: mikl]
13:26<Digitalfox>But i get your point :)
13:26<Eddi|zuHause3>this is not about using PNG, it is about LOSSLESS!!
13:26<Eddi|zuHause3>like, you missed totally the point
13:27<Roest>uh what did VRF_TRAIN_STUCK change to?
13:27<Denyerec>Digitalfox - I think they want a 1:1 lossless image
13:27<Denyerec>you have resized it to make it smaller, thus losing data.
13:27<Denyerec>OTTD is small enough already, you don't need to scale it down unless you want to be paying everyone's eyecare bills ;)
13:28<Digitalfox>Sorry but you guys didn't get my point, the screenshot was not resized by me, it was Photobucket who did resize it automaticly because of there rules.. But here is one that photobucket doesn't resize..
13:30<@Belugas>pipelines... why not electricy transport?
13:30<@peter1138>if photobucket scaled it, then it's time to crop
13:30<Eddi|zuHause3>use a different image hoster?!?
13:30<SmatZ>Belugas: and water, gas, cable TV, telephone, internet, wireless internet, ...
13:30<Eddi|zuHause3>and it is still scaled down
13:30<@Belugas>yeah... it's all about transport, isn't it? pffff...
13:31<Roest>anyone? must have happened since 12703 but i cant find it
13:31<@Belugas>ACTIVE transport, for crying out loud!
13:31<Eddi|zuHause3>Digitalfox: anyway, the problem is, for the bridges to work with a roadset, the bridge coder must specifically add the road graphics
13:31<Eddi|zuHause3>if the coder did that, it would usually be possible to set a parameter
13:32-!-TinoM [] has joined #openttd
13:32<Eddi|zuHause3>it would also say that in the grfs readme
13:32<Eddi|zuHause3>if it doesn't, you are screwed
13:32<@Belugas>indeed, Eddi|zuHause3 is right
13:33<@Belugas>the road/rail been drawn on the bridge is part of the bridge sprites, not taken out of the normal road/rail sprites
13:33<Eddi|zuHause3>the TTDP guys have their holy grail named "newroutes" to solve that poblem
13:33<Eddi|zuHause3>noone ever actually has seen the holy grail
13:33<@Belugas>not TTDP guys, Oscar
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13:34<Eddi|zuHause3>it's like saying "needs new map array", or "duke nukem forever"
13:34<@Belugas>and IIRC, it does not make unanimity.
13:34<Digitalfox>yeah Eddi|zuHause3 I know, but then the biggest problem appears.. Grf coders don't care about most of other set's.. But it's also true that when Newbridges set was created it was before this old look was available so I guess none has fault..:)
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13:37<Fingon>is there a way to scroll in the console ?
13:37<Fingon>or dump its output to some file ?
13:38<Denyerec>I was looking through the 32bbp graphics on the wiki... seems like a full set is some way off.
13:39<Lakie>Oddly enough it takes quite some time to redo 11,000~ sprites
13:40<@Belugas>and on free time, what's more..
13:40*Belugas welcomes Lakie :)
13:41<Lakie>Thanks, Belugas.
13:41<Lakie>I could find an accurate count but that should be close ish.
13:41*Denyerec just wishes he could draw nice sprites :(
13:42<Denyerec>Having them done by many different people risks introducing many conflicting art styles too.... perhaps the project is really feasible.
13:43<Eddi|zuHause3>the opengfx guys said something about 6990
13:44<@Rubidium>without artic, tropic and toyland maybe
13:44<Lakie>Sounds like likely upon investigation
13:44<@peter1138>yes, they're ignoring non-temperate
13:44<Denyerec>that's still a lot of sprites.
13:44<@peter1138>some newgrf sets have... a lot just by themselves
13:44<@peter1138>i don't think i've managed to hit 64k sprites yet, though
13:45<@peter1138>(needs the engine pool to load millions of vehicles into the game, hehe)
13:45<Lakie>4758 + 343 + 558 + 103 + 1194 = 6956 in the source files
13:45<Lakie>So I was quite a bit out
13:46<Lakie>Of course those include everything such as fonts
13:46<@peter1138>they need doing too
13:46<@peter1138>and the map-generator sprites
13:46<@peter1138>so opengfx maps (using the old generator) will be different too
13:47<Lakie>Would the canals, electric wires need redoing for it?
13:47<Lakie>Or are they ok in 8bpp
13:47<@peter1138>ah, sprites 4845 to 4881
13:48<@peter1138>depends how they were originally created
13:48<@peter1138>if they're heavily based on original graphics then they need replacements
13:48<@Rubidium>I think they need to be 'redone' to match the style of the water tiles
13:48<Lakie>Mostly by grf authors, I meant for the 32bpp project, surely they'd want everything changed?
13:48<@peter1138>most of pikka's work doesn't qualify :o
13:49<@peter1138>oh, for 32bpp... who cares ;)
13:49<Lakie>canals would be Georges?
13:49<@Rubidium>peter1138: not me
13:49*Lakie uses 8bpp
13:49<Lakie>(Most grfs won't ever go to 32bpp so meh)
13:49<@peter1138>geektoo needs a little educatin on the ways of putting different features into different patches, also
13:49<@Rubidium>Lakie: grfs will never be 32bpp
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13:50<Lakie>Heh, ok
13:50<@peter1138>they can have 32bpp graphics replacements, but it isn't directly in the grf
13:51<@Rubidium>they need a 8bpp grf + 32bpp graphics replacements for that grf
13:51<@peter1138>none of us really wants to bother hacking 32bpp support into grfcodec :)
13:51<@peter1138>grfs would become massive for the very few people wanting to use 32bpp
13:51<Lakie>Oh, yeah 32bpp uses tars.
13:51<+glx>and you can have the grf and its 32bpp graphics in a tar
13:51<@peter1138>well, okay, loads want to use 32bpp because 32bpp must be better than 8bpp, right?
13:51<Lakie>Not really
13:52<Lakie>Comes down to the artist and how its been drawn in the end.
13:52<@Rubidium>ofcourse 32bpp means that everything will be correctly scaled and such
13:52<@peter1138>with smooth curves
13:52<@Rubidium>so airports would be way way bigger
13:52<@peter1138>and multiple tracks on a tile
13:52<@peter1138>god those were stupid ideas people had
13:52<@Rubidium>and ofcourse ultra-long rail vehicles
13:53<Lakie>How would 32bpp make all that work, it couldn't
13:53<@peter1138>Lakie: it was the 'holy grail' for some people
13:53<@Rubidium>Lakie: we know that, but people do not want to understand that
13:53<@peter1138>just the new map array
13:53<Ammller>Lakie: check the 32bpp Zoom level patch
13:53<@Rubidium>oh, the "please do not reverse your trains, please please"-patch
13:54<@peter1138>which is crap
13:54<Lakie>do not reverse your train patch?
13:54<+glx>they just didn't understand the 32bpp goal :)
13:54<Lakie>wtf would you want to remove the ability to reverse a train
13:54<@peter1138>Lakie: it has a bug ;)
13:54<@peter1138>or two
13:54<Ammller>the 32bpp branch had additional zoom levels too...
13:55<Lakie>Why would you want to zoom in closer, you can't manage as much then
13:55<@peter1138>additional zoom levels should work across the whole thing, not just 32bpp
13:55<@peter1138>Lakie: people like me with crap eyesight
13:55<@peter1138>(i.e. just a rescaling of the original graphics would do fine)
13:56<Lakie>But zooming to the point every tile is 256x128 is Bad
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13:56<@peter1138>Lakie... someone had the idea of 512x256 tiles once :o
13:56<Lakie>You wouldn't be able to do much
13:56<Lakie>Thats just stupid
13:56<@peter1138>that's what i said
13:56<Lakie>You'd get what, 4 tiles across on your viewport
13:56<+glx>having extra zoom should not change the scale anyway
13:56<Lakie>And thats assuming you have a very high resolution
13:56<+glx>it just allows for more details
13:58<Lakie>Everything in the drawing routines has to be scaled.
13:58<Lakie>Although assuming movement isn't altered wouldn't the trains appear jumpy?
13:59<+glx>but relative sizes are the same
14:00<@peter1138>Lakie: yes, 16 steps in a 256x128 is... a lot
14:00<Lakie>Exactly, it is not as simple as just changing how something is drawn...
14:00-!-Bjarni [] has joined #openttd
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14:00<Lakie>To do it properly adds all sorts of complexities
14:01<+glx>that's the main problem :)
14:01<+glx>doing it properly
14:01<@Bjarni>hello Lakie and welcome :)
14:01<Lakie>Hello Bjarni and thankyou.
14:01<+glx>like daylength patches
14:01<Lakie>There isn't much time in a day
14:01<Lakie>It just isn't practical with the current timings of openttd.
14:02*Lakie is really bad at this isn't he?
14:04<Lakie>Ok, sorry my negitivity, but I wouldn't even both with those patch ideas for TTD, it just doesn't seem practical in the game.
14:06*Lakie goes to play some ut after killing #openttd ...
14:07<Noldo>I wonder if the audience would see making some loops parallel as multi-thread support
14:08<@Bjarni>adding multithread support on it's own can be done... no question there
14:08<Eddi|zuHause3>parallelizing loops has not much to do with threads
14:08<@Bjarni>the question is if you can do it without the added overhead killing the speed boost on multi core systems
14:09-!-Frostregen_ [] has joined #openttd
14:09<Lakie>Whats paralleling loops, having the loop excute partly and then excuting the second one, and thus jumping between them, becuase I was tault that a program can only excute one stream of instructions at a time, unless its multithreaded?
14:10<Denyerec>if you had a day/night cycle in OTTD, you would kill any player with epilepsy.
14:10<@Rubidium>same as multithreading basically
14:10<@Rubidium>but only for *very* short loops
14:10<@Rubidium>like the < 10 milliseconds type of loops
14:11<@Bjarni> <Denyerec> if you had a day/night cycle in OTTD, you would kill any player with epilepsy. <-- this is one reason not to do it. Another would be that it's a waste of resources both at execution time and when developing
14:11<Denyerec>Seasonal variation would be nice, but it would require a lot of new tree sprites
14:12<Lakie>I still vote its just not practical with 3 second days. >_>
14:12<@Rubidium>Denyerec: just create a tool that changes the brightness of your window in 2220 millisecond cycles
14:12<Denyerec>hehehe :)
14:12<Lakie>Seasonal could be good...
14:12<Denyerec>We already have arctic tiles
14:12<Denyerec>so you could shift land between temperate and arctic, and replace the trees with one of 4 sprite sets. Still a lot of work for no real gain.
14:13<Denyerec>(Besides aesthetic)
14:13<@Belugas> day, temperate tiles, the next, BANG! the SNOW!!!
14:13<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12752 /trunk/src/player_gui.cpp: -Codechange: replace some magic constants in player_gui.cpp. Patch by Yexo.
14:13<Lakie>It has no real gain other than comsometically.
14:13<Denyerec>would need some kind of blend.
14:13<Denyerec>And it's only cosmetic.
14:13*Rubidium proposes BlendTec
14:13<@Belugas>and that blend will be costly
14:14<Denyerec>Better woudl be a patch that lets you group-upgrade trains as an order, without having to drag them one by one into a depot.
14:14<@Rubidium>but it will be smooth if you use the smoothy setting
14:14<@Belugas>and i'm not even talking about the snow line and such
14:14<@Belugas>callbacks all fucked up... temperate with a snow line??? ERROR ERROR!!!!
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14:15<@Rubidium>Denyerec, like: select autoreplace parameters for a group of trains, then send them all at once to the depot for servicing?
14:15<Lakie>There are ALREADY grfs with a temperate snowline
14:15<Denyerec>Rubidium - anything that makes upgrading the train engines easier.
14:15<Lakie>Michael's Apline Climate for example
14:15<@Rubidium>Denyerec: already exists
14:15<Denyerec>It does?
14:15<Denyerec>omg how ?
14:15<Roest>Denyerec: it's well hidden but it exists
14:16<Denyerec>I found an "upgrade all trains in depot" button on the depot window that didn't seem to work,.
14:16<Ammller>Lakie: Alpine is arctic set, imo
14:16<@Belugas>Lakie, granted, but alpine works as long as you start it in arctic, from what i remember
14:17<Ammller>it replaces arctic with temperate sprites
14:17<Lakie>Works ok in temperate on TTDpatch.
14:17<@Belugas>.. there is a snowline in temperate???
14:17*Belugas needs a refresh course...
14:17<Ammller>truebrain made a patch once
14:17<Lakie>It can be activated.
14:17<Ammller>for wwottdgd
14:18-!-Roest [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:18<Denyerec>What about for wtfaataottdgp ?
14:18<Ammller>Lakie: how to activate it?
14:18<@Rubidium>HMage: that sounds like a good idea!
14:19<Denyerec>Rubidium, care to share how to do that group upgrade?
14:19<Lakie>Don't remember, something to do with grfs, as far as I remember, Ammller.
14:19<pm>I just run the current nightly with the new order interface. Great work!
14:19<Ammller>Lakie: I guess, you have alpine in mind
14:20<Lakie>Snow line height (97)
14:20<Lakie>This is only active if the tempsnowline switch is on. It defaults to FF (no snow) and 38 in the temperate and arctic climates, respectively. It must be set to a multiple of 8, which is one level of height difference.
14:20<Lakie>Na, I remember someone writing a test grf for it once
14:20<Ammller>for TTDP
14:20<Ammller>not supported in OTTD
14:20<Denyerec>or OTTDPBBQ?
14:21*Denyerec apologises for being obtuse, for he is hungry and tired.
14:21<Ammller>canada set has also snowline or some ECS grfs,iirc
14:22-!-snorre [~snorre@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:22<Denyerec>thanks Rubidium
14:22<Ammller>but never reached it working in OTTD.
14:23<Lakie>Ok, so its not supported in OpenTTD, I was just saying it is part of the newgrf spec
14:23*Lakie hides
14:23<@Rubidium>not supporting the NewGRF specs in it's complete form is our task
14:24<@Rubidium>though it seems that TTDP is starting to do that too
14:24<Lakie>newAirports is a tad of a pain to code in TTDpatch
14:24<Lakie>Even statically writing them in is a pain
14:24<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r12753 /trunk/src/ (15 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: do not use IsDepotTypeTile() where simpler function can be used
14:25-!-snorre [~snorre@] has joined #openttd
14:25<Lakie>And callback 36 var 14 doesn't work due to some unknown reason, it just neverw worked reliably.
14:25<SmatZ>has onyone tried calling C functions from perl programs?
14:25<HMage>I did
14:25<HMage>but failed miserably
14:25<HMage>cause I don't know perl that much
14:26<HMage>should be easy though
14:26<@peter1138>god damn it
14:26-!-Mirrakor [] has joined #openttd
14:26<@peter1138>does anyone make high quality large screens without massive resolution?
14:26<SmatZ>HMage: so do I, thanks :)
14:27<SmatZ>the problem it seems to be possible, but I would like an ellegant solution
14:27<Eddi|zuHause3>"snow in temperate" patch even existed back in the MiniIN times
14:27<@peter1138>hmm, maybe turning the light on would help, he
14:27<SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause3: is the effect the same as using Alpine climate set?
14:28<Eddi|zuHause3>not entirely, the alpine set also includes snowy versions of the temperate houses
14:28<Maedhros>and also stops farms above the (variable) snow-line producing anything
14:29<Eddi|zuHause3>the old patch would just build arctic houses above the snow line
14:29<SmatZ>I think it won't be implemented as GRF can be used for that purpose
14:30<Ammller>SmatZ: there are already GRFs with that, but not supported in OTTD
14:30<Ammller>like canada station set
14:30<Eddi|zuHause3>yes, just enabling the snow line would need (a little) code, everything else can be left to newgrfs
14:32<SmatZ>aren't the tiles with partial snow a bit darker than normal tiles?
14:32<SmatZ>it would need additional GRFs for these tiles
14:32-!-alexinext [] has joined #openttd
14:32<alexinext>to play multiplayer on OTTD and set up a game, do you need to have a server?
14:32<Ammller>SmatZ: there are already GRFs for that :-)
14:33<SmatZ>Ammller: ok :)
14:33<alexinext>my friend can't find a game I've made
14:33<alexinext>can someone check if it is listed or not
14:33<alexinext>because I am teaching him
14:33<Sionide>alexinext, one player can host the game from their client, the other can join.. so there *is* a server, it's just done from whoever wants to host it
14:33<Sionide>alexinext, have you forwarded the right ports in your router?
14:34<Ammller>you need that in TTDP too
14:34<Sionide>you need to change a couple things for your game to be visible online
14:34<Eddi|zuHause3>alexinext: look at if your game is listed
14:34<Eddi|zuHause3>make sure you chose "internet (advertise)"
14:35<Eddi|zuHause3>and check your firewall/router settings
14:36<alexinext>for what?
14:40<Zuu>that the port 3??? is open and forwarded to your computer (I've forgoten which port, but it's in your cfg-file)
14:41<Ammller>@openttd ports
14:41<@DorpsGek>Ammller: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication and UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound)
14:41<Rexxars>sorry, this is completely off-topic: does anyone know how much I would have to pay for a Canon EOS 400D / Digital Rebel XTi in the US? store-price, not online...
14:41<alexinext>I have not got a clue what you are talking about now, its way over my head
14:42<alexinext>do you need to put in add server and the ip adress before start server
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14:47<Ammller>alexinext: "Start server"
14:47<Ammller>(not "add server")
14:49<alexinext>I have done start server, but it doesn't work
14:49<alexinext>my friend can't find it on the list
14:49<alexinext>it is on internet advertsie
14:50<Sionide>alexinext, do you know your IP? find out your IP address he can "add server" with your IP.. assuming your router is allowing OTTD traffic through those two ports
14:50<Eddi|zuHause3>alexinext: you can check yourself if you are on the list on
14:50-!-dR3x4cK [] has quit [Quit: dR3x4cK]
14:51<Maedhros>haha, awesome
14:51<Sionide>that's hilarious
14:51<alexinext>I did that
14:51<Sionide>my IP has a .69 at the end ;) heheh
14:51<alexinext>it says the server is offline
14:51<alexinext>I did my ip address :3979
14:52-!-De_Ghosty [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:52<alexinext>thats what I put in
14:52<Eddi|zuHause3>not you, he must put that in
14:53<Eddi|zuHause3>but most likely your firewall is blocking access to your computer
14:53<alexinext>do I have to turn it off
14:53<alexinext>there is only 2 settings
14:53<alexinext>on and off
14:53<Eddi|zuHause3>no, you have to add a special rule to allow access on port 3979
14:57<alexinext>my friend has put in that and it says it is offline
14:57<Eddi|zuHause3>yes, because your computer is blocking the port
14:57<Ammller>save your map, go to, create a server, load your save and play there...
14:57*Lakie pokes Belugas, I assume the icon is currently too big? I suppose 200K is quite large.
14:58<alexinext>I turned off the firewall and it still wouldnt work
14:58<alexinext>its on random map
14:58<Ammller>well, then its easier
14:58<Ammller>just create the server and play there :-)
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14:59<Lakie>Have you checked your router isn't blocking that port?
14:59<Eddi|zuHause3>alexinext: then you have a router, and need to forward the port
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15:00<@Belugas>Lakie, wehn i checked it, yesterday evening (although i was very busy with an installation for work), i got the impression that the icon file was broken,
15:00<@Belugas>since i only had 2 icons on it
15:01<@Belugas>i was expecting way more...
15:01<@Belugas>or maybe i was totally wrong...
15:01<Lakie>2 icons on it?
15:02*Lakie shall check the zip later
15:02<Lakie>for now, bbl
15:02<@Belugas>pretty much yes. I don't know if it was broken or if my system was broken
15:03-!-snorre [~snorre@] has joined #openttd
15:05<alexinext>I am on myottd but I cant work out how to get into my game
15:05<yorick>get a client
15:05<alexinext>It says it has been created
15:05<Eddi|zuHause3>start your client, find the server you just created
15:07<alexinext>is 0.6.0 the same as 0.6.0beta4?
15:07<Eddi|zuHause3>you must have the exact same version
15:08<alexinext>no option for regular 0.6.0
15:08<Eddi|zuHause3>are you sure?
15:08<@Rubidium>hylje: could be fuller
15:08<@Rubidium>there is still place to put everyone in the train
15:08<@Rubidium>I've been in one that had to leave quite a few standing
15:08<Eddi|zuHause3>it might be called "stable" or something
15:09<alexinext>all I have listed are the nightlys
15:09<@Rubidium>which means that more people are pushing people into the train than just the three of for railway company guys, but a complete horde of people
15:09<alexinext>0.5.2 0.5.3 and 0.6.0 beta 4
15:10<yorick>'s not updated
15:10<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12754 /trunk/src/ (44 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: split depot.h into depot_map.h, depot_func.h and depot_base.h and remove quite a lot of unneeded (before this) includes of depot.h.
15:12<alexinext>i've done something wrong but I cant find what
15:12<Ammller>oh, no 0.6 at, sorry about that and shame on you SpComp :P
15:13<alexinext>anything else you can think of ammller?
15:13<Ammller>well, you need to do it self then :-)
15:14<Ammller>don't you use p2p software?
15:14<alexinext>I don't know how to get the routr set up correctly
15:14<alexinext>sorry for being a big pain, everyone
15:14<Ammller>torrents etc.
15:14<alexinext>I have, but I dont remember much
15:14<Ammller>you needed portforwarding for them too
15:15<alexinext>I think someone remote assistanced my computer for setting it up though
15:15<Ammller>then ask him to setting up 3979 to your pc too :-)
15:15<alexinext>I will ask some techhys on MSN
15:16<Ammller>(and 3978 for advertising)
15:17-!-alexinext is now known as EXTspotter
15:19<ln>people. i'm back from theatre.
15:19-!-Alberth [] has joined #openttd
15:19<@peter1138>what play did you see?
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15:22<ln>peter1138: a sort of interactive parody, roughly based on swedish history.
15:23<@Rubidium>so they all fell through the floor in the first scene?
15:23<ln>peter1138: but that's of secondary importance; the important thing is that at the end of intermission, the live band played some jazz.
15:24-!-snorre [~snorre@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:24<EXTspotter>did you do some jazzercise
15:24<Eddi|zuHause3>sweden is the country that jumps on top whenever there is going on a gang-bang
15:24<ln>peter1138: that is, the Transport Tycoon theme
15:24<Eddi|zuHause3>like in the 30 years war
15:24<Eddi|zuHause3>or in the 7 years war
15:25-!-snorre [~snorre@] has joined #openttd
15:25<@Belugas>hoo... jazz... for a few seconds, i though that the aband played jezz...
15:26-!-mikl [] has joined #openttd
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15:43<Eddi|zuHause3>i don't understand what dot is doing, it's already running for 2 hours on a simple file...
15:44-!-Mwa [] has joined #openttd
15:47<@Rubidium>it's trying to make the file complex so they can run their leet 'only works on complex files'-algorithm
15:48<EXTspotter>this is annoying because the password to get into my ISP isnt correct and I cant get in to change the settings on my router
15:48<EXTspotter>so that I can set up games on OTTD
15:48<Eddi|zuHause3>and svn up is not working... :(
15:48<+glx>admin admin doesn't work EXTspotter?
15:49-!-EXTspotter [] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!]
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15:50<extspotter>admin admin doesnt work
15:50<extspotter>nor does admin or Admin Admin or wahtever
15:51<Prof_Frink>extspotter: what model?
15:51<extspotter>of router?
15:51<@peter1138>admin password?
15:52<@peter1138>or just reset the config?
15:52<Alberth>Eddi|zuHause3: and svn up is not working... <-- fyi: it is here
15:52<extspotter>I am not a techhy person
15:52<extspotter>I am trying to get into my router settings
15:53<extspotter>and I need to log into the router settings through the ip adress
15:53<Prof_Frink>extspotter: Yes
15:53<CIA-3>OpenTTD: glx * r12755 /trunk/src/genworld.cpp: -Fix (r12706): aborting map generation was not properly handled
15:53<Ammller>admin / 1234
15:54<extspotter>Belkin F5D7633uk4A
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15:57<Eddi|zuHause3>i'm not sure if that was a sensible thing to do :p
15:58<Eddi|zuHause3>nevermind ;)
15:59<Ammller>Eddi|zuHause3: routers shouldn't be accessable from outside per default
15:59<extspotter>Im going
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16:03<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r12756 /trunk/src/ (station_cmd.cpp station_gui.cpp): -Cleanup: variable scope and coding style in station*
16:07<Eddi|zuHause3>grmbl... it tells me "svn: Konnte die Datei »src/depot_base.h« nicht hinzufügen: ein Objekt mit demselben Namen existiert bereits", even though i did not have any patches applied...
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16:15<Alberth>hmm, width and height of viewports shouldn't be in hex, should they?
16:15<nicfer>what's better, lincity or opencity?
16:16<Eddi|zuHause3>civ4 !!
16:16*Eddi|zuHause3 hides ;)
16:17<Ammller>is it possible to change font color for signs?
16:17<Mirrakor>nicfer: depends, I'm very familiar with both
16:18<Mirrakor>nicfer: I guess you're talking about lincity-ng, right?
16:18<Ammller>Eddi|zuHause3: maybe you should make a "clean" revert
16:19<nicfer>well, openttd is also about making grow cities, so why not play it?
16:21<Mirrakor>nicfer: well, there are quite a few differences, I think you can't compare lincity-ng and opencity to openttd
16:22<nicfer>simcity games are boring because you only have to lay some roads, put a electric station, some zones and you are growing
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16:23<Mirrakor>openttd has a much bigger community, and works way more professional, like the commercial game, lc-ng and oc are both hobby projects, while lc-ng is a new fresh iso gui for the old lincity, Opencity is a completely new 3d game, but it's pre-pre-alpha state afaik
16:23<Mirrakor>OC is more in testing state, lincity is more grown(however, they've started to break compatibility to the old lc - I'm exited to see a few changes)
16:25<Mirrakor>Lincity is pretty interesting actually, since it's more realistic (although it has far less building options than sim city or openttd), you've to ways to win the game: rescue all people by increasing your tech-level, building a rocket and let them escape in that or with a sustainable econemy
16:26<Eddi|zuHause3>yay, let them escape with a rocket, and then rebuild the TARDIS into a paradox-machine!!
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16:30<@Bjarni>hi Mwa
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16:45<Mwa>Hm. I'd quite like to contribute to the project, but I've got no experience in coding games and little in C++. Would you guys happen to need a new website or something of that nature? I'm good at those.
16:46<@peter1138>not really... are you good at documentation? heh
16:47<Mwa>I'm alright at it.
16:49<@Bjarni>contributions to the wiki are always welcome
16:49-!-thgergo [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:50<@Bjarni>Mwa: <-- you can read though this and maybe you can figure out how to improve the wiki page in question
16:50<@Bjarni>I mean you figured out how to compile the game, right?
16:53<@Bjarni>but please start by making an account in the wiki system if you haven't done so already. Remembering people by IP numbers aren't any fun :/
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17:04<@peter1138>Mwa: and of course, if you don't want to do any of that, don't ;)
17:05<Mwa>I'll write a terminal howto at the same time. :3
17:06<@Bjarni>Mwa: it was meant as thing that could improve the project without the need for great coding skills, not as a do or die thing ;)
17:07<@Bjarni>that tutorial... I was thinking about just linking to something but I never found anything useful
17:07<@Bjarni>maybe because I never searched hard for it
17:09<Mwa> Well, a quick google search turns up old stuff
17:09<Mwa>The leopard terminal doesn't need that much explaining
17:10<@Bjarni>maybe I should visit the local mac store to actually try the Leopard terminal. I have yet to see it
17:12<Mwa>Well, you just open it and away you go really. It also has the capabilities for transparency and proper colour support, and it's bell is the default system alert sound. It's also a doddle to change background and default colours and such. It's much better than tiger's.
17:13<@Bjarni>I don't think all the pre configure text should be on the main page since it's not valid for the newest stable release anymore
17:14<Mwa>Which main page?
17:14<@Bjarni>main page on compiling on mac ;)
17:16<Mwa>You've lost me, sorry.
17:16<@Bjarni>that's before we added configure to svn
17:16<@Bjarni>before that we just had a makefile that tried to figure out what people needed
17:17<@Bjarni>@openttd commit 7759
17:17<@DorpsGek>Bjarni: Commit by rubidium :: r7759 /trunk (531 files in 37 dirs) (2007-01-02 19:19:48 UTC)
17:17<@DorpsGek>Bjarni: -Merge: makefile rewrite. This merge features:
17:17<@DorpsGek>Bjarni: - A proper ./configure, so everything needs to be configured only once, not for every make.
17:17<@DorpsGek>Bjarni: - Usage of makedepend when available. This greatly reduces the time needed for generating the dependencies.
17:17<@DorpsGek>Bjarni: - A generator for all project files. There is a single file with sources, which is used to generate Makefiles and the project files for MSVC.
17:17<@DorpsGek>Bjarni: (...)
17:17<@Bjarni>!openttd commit 7759
17:17<@DorpsGek>Bjarni: Error: You haven't asked me a command; perhaps you want to see someone else's more. To do so, call this command with that person's nick.
17:18<@Bjarni>well.. how it worked before that commit... use svn log to get the full text if you like
17:18<Mwa>You mean you want to remove the bit on how to compile revisions before 7759?
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17:20<@Bjarni>maybe it should be moved to a page telling about how to do it with old versions or something
17:20<@Bjarni>but do we really need that?
17:20<Patrick`_>what command is run to generate the makefiles? makemake?
17:21<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12757 /trunk/ (23 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: move all cheat related stuff from all over the place to a single location.
17:22<Mwa>I don't know. I personally will leave it there, and you can remove it if you want to. :p
17:23<@Bjarni>fair enough
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17:29-!-Osai is now known as Osai^zZz
17:32<Patrick`_>to the popemobile
17:32<Patrick`_>(wrong channel)
17:33-!-Mucht [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:34<@Bjarni>Patrick`_: nice except it looks like you are only in one channel
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17:39<governor>He might be on multiple networks
17:40<Eddi|zuHause3>no! he wouldn't do that to us!!!1!
17:40<governor>I'm on three others :[
17:42<@Rubidium>would localhost be another network too?
17:43<Mwa>He could just have mode +i set
17:48<Patrick`_>Bjarni: on this erver
17:48<@Bjarni>then it's not the wrong channel. It's the wrong erver
17:49<Eddi|zuHause3>sorry, wrong sub-light-data-transmission-device
17:50-!-Purno [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:50<@Bjarni>better yet: sorry wrong computer
17:50-!-stillunknown [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:50<Eddi|zuHause3>i thought i said that
17:51<@Bjarni>didn't you say wrong physical port?
17:53<Eddi|zuHause3>you might interpret this in different ways
17:54<ln>you're getting way too technical, why not just yell "Bjarni!"?
17:54<Eddi|zuHause3>mainly what you call "device"
17:55-!-pm [] has quit [Quit: Good bye!]
17:55<@Bjarni>my first translation of device was "router"
17:55<Eddi|zuHause3>because some people have actually grown out of childish behaviour
17:55-!-Slowpoke [] has joined #openttd
17:55<@Bjarni>childish behaviour?
17:56<@Bjarni>you mean to claim that your device is bigger than mine?
17:56-!-sickie88 [] has joined #openttd
17:57<Eddi|zuHause3>something like that ;)
17:57-!-mikl [] has joined #openttd
17:57<@Bjarni>if device is a mobile phone then it would be: "my device is smaller than yours" :P
17:58<Eddi|zuHause3>err... it would be null pointer dereferencing...
17:59<@Bjarni>you don't have one either?
18:00<Eddi|zuHause3>i thought i said that
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18:10<Denyerec>When I list my trains, some have green dots by them, some yellow, some grey... what;s that all abou ?
18:11<@Rubidium>gray is 'not old enough'
18:11<@Rubidium>red is negative profit
18:11<Denyerec>Ah ok.
18:11<Denyerec>is it relative to my other trains
18:12<Denyerec>or is it absolute, based on some invisible metric?
18:12<@Rubidium>yellow is positive profit, but less than 10000 pounds
18:12<Denyerec>ah right
18:12<@Rubidium>green is more than 10000 pounds
18:12<Denyerec>Jolly good :)
18:12<Denyerec>I am starting to try and build proper feed junctions now, using YAPP (Which is SO much easier!)
18:12<+glx>and you need green for 100% performance
18:12<@Rubidium>(or gray)
18:12<Denyerec>Turns out ore doesn't pay so well.
18:13<+glx>coal is the money maker
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18:16<Digitalfox>Did george implemented the switches he said would make so people could choose whether it had stockpile or not?
18:16<Digitalfox>I'm referring to to ECS :)
18:17<Denyerec>I wish I knew why people in the towns love living in jungles.
18:18-!-mikl [] has quit [Quit: mikl]
18:18<Digitalfox>Oh he did =0
18:19<Digitalfox>// parameter is a bit switch that means:
18:19<Digitalfox>// bit 0 - Unlimited storeplace
18:19<Digitalfox>// bit 1 - Endless mines
18:19<Digitalfox>// bit 2 - No mine closure
18:19<Digitalfox>cool =0
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18:29<Denyerec>Is there a shortut key for the little signal bulldozer
18:29<Zuu>signal buldozer? you mean s+r?
18:29<Denyerec>when you have the signal selected, you can clicka dozer icon to remove signals.
18:29<Zuu>s = select signal tool, r = remove signal.
18:29<Denyerec>roger, thanks!
18:30<Zuu>r works to toggle remove for tracks etc. too.
18:31<Zuu>I have yet to figure out which key to use to toggle one way road though.. but it's probably somewhere in the wiki, but might be esiest to simply read the code.
18:31<@Rubidium>try a number
18:32<Zuu>something 8-9-0 ish
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18:41<Zuu>8 it was and in road_gui.cpp
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19:01<Eddi|zuHause3>/home/johannes/spiele/OpenTTD/src/station_gui.cpp:1406: warning: ‘void HandleCargoWaitingClick(Window*, int)’ defined but not used <-- where did that go?
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19:40<Digitalfox>peter1138 will enginepool in the future be able to turn off the check Long Vehicles 4 and Serbian Vehicles have against each other?
19:41<Digitalfox>It's the only problem I have.. :\
19:42<Digitalfox>I have already 400 vehicles =0
19:45<Eddi|zuHause3>Digitalfox: that is not the scope of the patch, that is up to the grf authors
19:45-!-Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
19:45<Sacro>no Bjarni :(
19:46<Eddi|zuHause3>Sacro: you missed him by 20 minutes
19:46<Digitalfox>Eddi|zuHause3 well yeah, but this patch does what before wasn't possible and so there was this check to not occupy others ID's :)
19:46<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause3: that's how i like it
19:46<Sacro>@seen Bjarni
19:46<@DorpsGek>Sacro: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 1 hour, 47 minutes, and 47 seconds ago: <Bjarni> you don't have one either?
19:47<Eddi|zuHause3>Digitalfox: but the patch cannot know what the check means, it's up to the grf authors to remove the check (depending on ottd version)
19:47<Digitalfox>Eddi|zuHause3 or me ;)
19:47-!-Vikthor [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
19:52<+glx><Eddi|zuHause3> Digitalfox: but the patch cannot know what the check means, it's up to the grf authors to remove the check (depending on ottd version) <-- or to add something else
19:52<Digitalfox>glx :)
19:52<+glx>like for grf extensions
19:59<Digitalfox>And LV4 working =0
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20:05<Denyerec>So a town hates me. And I've already turned the place into a rainforest... anything else I can do?
20:05<Denyerec>They hate me so bad I can't even build a bus stop!
20:05<SmatZ>clear all trees
20:05<SmatZ>and replant them
20:05<SmatZ>or bribe :-P
20:06<Denyerec>Can't afford a bribe
20:06<Denyerec>but I think I can deforest some ;)
20:07<+glx>killing trees can't make your rating worse :)
20:07<Denyerec>It did.
20:07<Denyerec>Took it from poor to appalling
20:07<Denyerec>and replanting didn't raise it any either
20:10-!-Zahl [] has quit [Quit: (~_~]"]
20:13<Digitalfox>Denyerec you have plant lot's of trees not just the same number you erased
20:13<Denyerec>It's already a jungle
20:13<Denyerec>there are no spare tiles
20:13<Denyerec>anywhere near that godforsaken hellhole.
20:15<Digitalfox>read the part Local authority rating
20:15-!-governor [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:15<Sacro>Digitalfox: *lots
20:15-!-governor [] has joined #openttd
20:16<Denyerec>Thanks fox.
20:16<Digitalfox>sacro yeah.. I sure could use an English dictionary.. Oh wait Firefox already have :p
20:16<Denyerec>looks like I have to save up for a bribe then :S
20:17<@Belugas>and pipelines is NOT about game mechanis!
20:17<Digitalfox>sacro having a nice day?
20:17<Sacro>Digitalfox: to be honest... no
20:17<Digitalfox>Sacro we all have bad days :)
20:17<Sacro>Digitalfox: i'm having a bad life
20:17<Digitalfox>Sacro sorry to hear :\
20:18<Digitalfox>But I'm sure It will get better ;)
20:19<Digitalfox>Hey if we didn't have bad days how would we know what good days are?
20:20<Sacro>most of my days are bad days
20:21<Digitalfox>But you also have good days :)
20:21<Sacro>can't say i do
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20:21<Digitalfox>Damn sacro you're really down mate :p
20:22<Sacro>Digitalfox: i almost commitied suicide 2 days ago
20:22<Digitalfox>Well the only thing I do when I'm down is to go out and be with family and friends, there the best medice..
20:23<Digitalfox>Sorry to hear Sacro :(
20:23<Sacro>i do not have family i can go see
20:25<Digitalfox>Sacro I'm not a psychologist or something like that, but suicide isn't a solution for problems.. Just a way of escaping problems.. And I say this not by just saying, but because I know a friend who did it..
20:25<Sacro>well i'm wanting an escape
20:27<Digitalfox>Don't know what to tell you sacro, but I honestly hope you feel better and don't think on that more :)
20:28<Sacro>Digitalfox: i just need people to help me
20:29<Digitalfox>sacro you mean friends?
20:29<Sacro>i'm lacking in friends
20:31<Digitalfox>Well go out, be nice to people and you can like everybody make friends.. :)
20:31<Sacro>i'm an introvert
20:31<Sacro>i find it near impossible to go out and make friends
20:32<SmatZ>what are friends good for?
20:36-!-Eddi|zuHause2 [] has joined #openttd
20:36<Sacro>SmatZ: i dunno
20:36<Digitalfox>Sacro ever thought on reading a book on how to free yourself of being introvert? Not joking there are really books that talk about this ..
20:37<Digitalfox>I have a friend who did it.. Now he doesn't stop talking.. With is nice :)
20:37<Sacro>Digitalfox: yes, but the thought of going to get one of these books is scary
20:37<Digitalfox>Sacro get one online
20:37<Sacro>Digitalfox: i have no credit card
20:37<Digitalfox>well download one ;)
20:38<Yexo>Digitalfox: A credit card? :)
20:39<Digitalfox>Yexo P2P :p
20:39<Yexo>so everyone who is online is paying part of eachothers expenses?
20:40<Digitalfox>Yexo you know what I mean ;) Don't try that discussion :)
20:41<Yexo>sorry, it's too late :)
20:42<Yexo>night everybody
20:42<Digitalfox>bye :)
20:42-!-Eddi|zuHause3 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:43<Digitalfox>night everybody
20:43<SmatZ>nn Digitalfox
20:43<Sacro>night Digitalfox
20:43<Digitalfox>And sacro hope your life gets better :)
20:44<Sacro>Digitalfox: thanks
20:48<Denyerec>How do you auto-renew things?
20:48<Denyerec>I've got old busses, but as there is no "new model" I cant seem to use the replace-vehicle dialog
20:49<Sacro>you can renew
20:49<Sacro>just not replace
20:51<Denyerec>on the "manage list" I see replace, send to depot and send for service.
20:51<Denyerec>No "renew
20:51*Denyerec is missing something, he can feel it
20:52-!-sickie88 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:53<Sacro>send for service
20:53<Sacro>and make sure you have autorenew in patch options
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21:12<Denyerec>AHH THAT'S WHAT I was missing
21:13<Denyerec>all my bleedin oil refineries closed...
21:13<Denyerec>they were being serviced by trains too.
21:21-!-Volley [~worf@] has quit []
21:24<Sacro>night chaps
21:24-!-Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
21:25-!-SmatZ [] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
21:29*Lakie pokes Belugas.
21:30<@Belugas>that hurts!
21:30<Lakie>Heh, sorry.
21:30*Lakie is checking the icon now
21:30<Lakie>Got to rebuild my XP box, so its taken time to get here
21:31<Lakie>All sizes seem in it and my logo grabber can grab all the xp valid ones from it ok
21:31<@Belugas>i'm still doing work@work
21:31<Lakie>Oh, sorry
21:31<@Belugas>well.. life is life :S
21:33<Lakie>Heh, I understand you have to put in the hours for the money
21:35<Lakie>Yep, my computer claims the icon file is fully intact
21:35<Lakie>I'll try it on my xp box when... um... xp's installer finishes
21:35<@Belugas>but i can do both :) ottd and workj@work
21:35<CIA-3>OpenTTD: belugas * r12758 /trunk/src/water_map.h: -Fix(r4712, r12745): Use a bool when it's about boolean evaluation. a TileIndex is hardly a bool, of course of course. Thanks for good old MSVC warnings.
21:36<@Belugas>yeah... my boss is demanding, but he pays well
21:36<@Belugas>they are intact you said?
21:36<Lakie>I've noticed most of those warnings are gone now
21:36<Lakie>You using XP?
21:37<Lakie>You can only see 48 (tiles), 32 normal and 16 small, correct?
21:37<@Belugas>most of the times, those warnings are totally brain dead
21:37<@Belugas>some other times, they are usefull
21:37<@Belugas>16 and 32
21:37<Lakie>I always disliked the one which spiral
21:37<@Belugas>(i thik)
21:37<Lakie>Yeah, chain effect down the file
21:38<Lakie>like var x is invalid, oh the rest using var x is wrong
21:38<@Belugas>oh... yeah
21:39<@Belugas>and it comes donw to a real stupid error...
21:39<@Belugas>typo or else
21:39<Lakie>And one error becomes hundreds, hehe, thats normally it
21:39<Lakie>or the CaSe isn't correct
21:39<+glx>missing } can lead to nice errors too :)
21:39<Lakie>or a ; after a class
21:40<Lakie>missing ;*
21:41-!-Digitalfox_Home [] has joined #openttd
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21:43*Lakie being relatively new to C++ has had all sorts of basic errors which or stem down to learning the language, the classes one being quite frequent...
21:44<Lakie>Oh dear, its not trying to format (proper format) my 250GB hard drive is it, thats going to take ages!
21:45*Belugas belugas has learned c++ while doing OTTD. Lucky for him, there were some very good ... counselors (?) among the team :)
21:45<Lakie>And this is why I put off reloading it for 2 months...
21:45<Lakie>Most of it I learnt from books
21:46<Lakie>I learn languages quite fast though, so I became someone who helped everyone else in the class, including the guy programming for a part time job
21:46<@Belugas>same here. but books cannot always answer all the questions. they can only say what they know
21:46<@Belugas>heheh.. nice
21:47-!-Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
21:48<Lakie>I noticed, also with the c# book my dad got me, I keep finding 'lies'
21:48<Sacro>Lakie: C# is awesome
21:49<Lakie>Like C++ can't do this, but it can I've seen it and done it, or this is the same as this, but functions complettely differently.
21:49<Sacro>Console.WriteLine("Hello World!");
21:49<Lakie>It is quite nice.
21:49<Lakie>Although that line could be in or c#
21:50<Lakie>Actually c# because of the ;
21:50<Sacro>same bytecode
21:50<Lakie>But the actual funtion is part of .net so it can be used in both
21:51<@Belugas>or even in DElphi...
21:51*Lakie has used delicates for somethings already...
21:52<Lakie>The ability to have one 'class' call several functions in one line is useful...
21:52*Sacro watches some monty python
21:52<Lakie>Not quite the pointer function array it was claimed to be in the book though.
21:55<Lakie>Sorry, I can't actually check the icon on XP now though, Belugas.
21:55<Lakie>Seems the installer decided to take the long route. :(
21:57<Lakie>That and xp's installer is so slow compared to Vistas.
21:57<Lakie>I could have Vista installed in just over 20 minutes on that machine.
22:03<@Belugas>i'm on the infamous pikka's quarry bug, anyway
22:03<Lakie>What that it doesn't appear on the maps?
22:03*Lakie noticed that...
22:04<Lakie>If it helps I believe there is a function in TTDpatch which alters the terrain to allow for it to be there....
22:04<Lakie>Unless I've got the wrong issue? :)
22:07<@Belugas>the bug is the no-appearance indeed, but i think it is realted to a bug in the callback handling
22:08<@Belugas>pikka uses var 1ch and 60h, both seems to be returning fine,
22:08<@Belugas>but the result smmes like been shopped off or not returned correctly
22:09<@Belugas>the quarry has to be placed on the flat tile in front of the slop, right?
22:09<@Belugas>sorr. 0C, no 1C
22:09<+glx>high slope
22:12<Lakie>Infront of 2 slopes
22:12<Lakie>well, theres 2 versions of it
22:12<Lakie>flat-slope and flat-slope-slope iirc
22:13*Lakie consults ttdpatch
22:18<Lakie>Oddly enough I can't build it in ttdpatch
22:19<Lakie>Got it, Belugas
22:19<Lakie>A flat, with 3 slope tiles
22:20<Lakie>Its 3x4
22:21<@Belugas>thanks :)_
22:21<Lakie>62% formatted... only taken an hour
22:21*Lakie weeps
22:22<+glx>something happened between beta1 and beta2
22:23<@Belugas>and it's top left that can create it
22:26<+glx>I was wrong
22:26<+glx>it still works in beta4
22:27<+glx>and in beta5
22:28<Lakie>Oh TTDpatch?
22:28<+glx>RC1 fails
22:28<+glx>no ottd 0.6 :)
22:29<@Belugas>Lakie, we're useing builds to find a range of faulty revisions
22:29<+glx>and as I'm the win32 builder, I have all of them ready to test :)
22:30<Lakie>Oh sorry.
22:30<@Belugas>r12751 fails
22:31<@Belugas>trying r12320
22:32<+glx>it's after r12338 :)
22:33<+glx>12338 == beta5
22:33<@Belugas>ha... of course, you're right
22:35<+glx>12352 looks like a candidate
22:35<+glx>but I'm just reading commits
22:36<+glx>12358 too
22:36<@Belugas>trying 12350
22:36<+glx>@openttd commit 12358
22:36<@DorpsGek>glx: Commit by frosch :: r12358 /trunk/src (newgrf_industrytiles.cpp newgrf_spritegroup.cpp) (2008-03-11 12:55:41 UTC)
22:36<@DorpsGek>glx: -Fix: Callback 2F returns 15 bit results starting from grf version 7.
22:37<@Belugas>m=very good candidate indeed...
22:38<+glx>this 8bit/15bit stuff is nasty
22:38<@Belugas>r12350 works
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22:41<@Belugas>r12352 fails
22:41<@Belugas>so it's not 12358
22:41<+glx>@openttd commit 12352
22:41<@DorpsGek>glx: Commit by frosch :: r12352 /trunk/src (3 files) (2008-03-10 15:31:07 UTC)
22:41<@DorpsGek>glx: -Fix: Some callback-results were treated as 8 bit, when they were 15 bit, and vice versa.
22:41<@DorpsGek>glx: Var 0x7E procedure-results are always 15 bit.
22:41<@DorpsGek>glx: Callbacks 0x2A, 0x2C, 0x36 (sometimes), 0x39 and 0x145 are 15 bit.
22:41<@DorpsGek>glx: Non-varaction2-calculated callback-results are also affected by the 8bit masking.
22:43<+glx>12358 should have been a fix for 12352
22:47-!-Osai^zZz is now known as Osai^zZz`off
22:48<@Belugas>wonder why " 1.78 + case SGT_CALLBACK: {
22:48<@Belugas> 1.79 + if (!Is8BitCallback(object)) return group;"
22:48<@Belugas>has been added
22:48<@Belugas>4th hunk front end
22:48<@Belugas>and not 4th, 3th
22:50<@Belugas>cause that's the only part that looks suspicious
22:51<@Belugas>trying with head commenting that part
22:52<Lakie>Hmmm... commenting isengine causes TTDpatch to die upon loading of the title screen
22:53<Lakie>Guess I was write about it being unsafe
22:53<+glx>added printfs to see what happens
22:56<@Belugas>i think i know
22:56<@Belugas>that is silly...
22:57<+glx>spritegroup stuff seems to return correct values
22:57<@Belugas>Important: The meaning of the returned value will change in GRF version 7; it will work the same way as callback 28. Also, since TTDPatch r1755, you can use the text reference stack for your error messages, similarly to callback 3A. The only difference is that only 4 registers are copied instead of 6; see callback 28 for details.
22:57<@Belugas>version 7!
22:57<@Belugas>pikka is on version 6
22:58<@Belugas>and he returns 0400
22:58<@Belugas>we, simply following the rules,
22:58<@Belugas>are TRUNKATING the results as 8 bit
22:58<@Belugas>guess waht, it fails
22:58<@Belugas>ho... wait...
22:59<@Belugas>it was never been said that version 6 are 8 bits
23:00<Lakie>Version 6 does support 0x8000 + x
23:00<Lakie>Thats been supported for a very long time
23:00<Lakie>Version 7 is since only 2.5 beta 1
23:01<@Belugas>so, the test that changed on was wrong
23:02<Lakie>It does say however that some of the return values of features might alter between the two
23:02<Lakie>How confusing
23:03<@Belugas>welcome to our nighmare ;)
23:03<+glx>so CB 2F was already a 15bit result
23:04<+glx>anyway PerformIndustryTileSlopeCheck() is silly :)
23:04<@Belugas>i think i know where the real fix was :
23:04<@Belugas> 1.7 - if (object == NULL | object->procedure_call) return false;
23:04<@Belugas> 1.8 + if (object == NULL || object->procedure_call) return false;
23:04<@Belugas>it is?
23:05<+glx>,...switch (callback_res) {
23:05<+glx>,..., 0x400: return true;
23:05<+glx>,..., 0x401: _error_message = STR_0239_SITE_UNSUITABLE; return false;
23:05<+glx>,..., 0x402: _error_message = STR_0317_CAN_ONLY_BE_BUILT_IN_RAINFOREST; return false;
23:05<+glx>,..., 0x403: _error_message = STR_0318_CAN_ONLY_BE_BUILT_IN_DESERT; return false;
23:05<+glx>,...,...default: _error_message = GetGRFStringID(its->grf_prop.grffile->grfid, 0xD000 + callback_res); return false;
23:05<+glx>8bit is always failing
23:05<+glx>so it seems
23:06<+glx>hmm wait 8bit don't go there
23:06<+glx>,...if (its->grf_prop.grffile->grf_version < 7) {
23:06<+glx>,...,...return (callback_res & 0xFF) != 0; // mask to 8 bit callback result
23:06<DaleStan>Patch does "test eax, eax" for CB2F's old format return value, and has done so since at least alpha 67. (The return value is in eax.)
23:06<@Belugas>that has to be reverted
23:06<Lakie>Hi DaleStan
23:06*Lakie ponders why the loader crashes
23:07<@Belugas>therefor, it is a 15 bits since eons
23:07<Lakie>I'm going to do a mrproper, something isn't write about this
23:08<@Belugas>so, the block will be "return callback_res != 0"
23:08<DaleStan>I have troubles (on XP) with the Windows Vista fixes; are you ending up at addresses near 000234XX?
23:08<+glx>no the test is right "The callback should return zero if the tile isn't suitable, or any other value if it is suitable."
23:08<DaleStan>Deletes everything except Makefile.local.
23:08<Lakie>unsure, DaleStan.
23:08<+glx>the problem is the grf :)
23:08<Lakie>Its crashing whilst loading so I can only conclude something is wrong with my versiondata
23:09<Lakie>Which means a complete rebuild would be best. :/
23:09<DaleStan>Oh, so it's the patching code that's crashing, and not code from loader.asm?
23:09<Lakie>I'm not sure, it doesn't look like patch code, and its before the main window appears.
23:10<@Belugas>glx, with the proposed, it works
23:10*Lakie shall note the location
23:10<@Belugas>so, i'm scratcing my head
23:10<+glx>Belugas: basically a partial revert of r12358 :)
23:10<DaleStan>Well, if there's accessible memory at EIP, then it's not the problem I see.
23:10<Lakie>Well, eip says it is in the patch
23:10<@Belugas>a fix of a fix
23:10*Lakie shall trace it after his rebuild
23:11<@Belugas>glx: not the first time tough ;)
23:11<Lakie>But it wasn't were I modifed to the patch which is really odd
23:11<Lakie>(Not anywhere close)
23:12<Lakie>Oh and I remembered that I needed to compile renum with the -mno-cygwin flag...
23:12<+glx>Belugas: indeed it works :)
23:16<Lakie>Belugas, just out of curiousity, your screens colour depth isn't below 32bpp is it?
23:17<CIA-3>OpenTTD: belugas * r12759 /trunk/src/newgrf_industrytiles.cpp: -Fix(r12358): There is no need to mask callback result for pre-version7 since CBID_INDTILE_SHAPE_CHECK (cb2F) is really 15 bits.
23:17<Lakie>Only 16x16 and 32x32 are avaliable for 24bpp it seems
23:18<@Belugas>32bits in here
23:18<Lakie>Hmmm... odd
23:18<Lakie>I love having two drives, look in drive e:, continues to install...
23:18<Lakie>It should have valid sizes upto 256 for 32bpp
23:19*Lakie shall investicgate further
23:19-!-Nitehawk [] has joined #openttd
23:20<Lakie>DaleStan: its crashing within a proc file
23:21<CIA-3>OpenTTD: belugas * r12760 /trunk/src/newgrf_spritegroup.cpp: -Fix(r12759): Remove a now useless comment
23:21<DaleStan>That takes talent. Even *with* bad version data that takes talent.
23:21*Lakie wipes his version files manually
23:21-!-Trond [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:22<Lakie>Oddly enough
23:22<Lakie>It was in the depot window code
23:22<Lakie>That one we had a bug report about a day ago
23:22<+glx>hmm don't you have a dedicated channel ? ;)
23:22<Lakie>No we don't.
23:25<+glx>night all
23:25<@Belugas>it's called #tycoon, glx, not #ttdpatch ;)
23:25<Lakie>night glx
23:26<@Belugas>and... well... the last thing that is been talked over there is really coding... man...
23:26<@Belugas>night all, tiem for me tto to hit the bed
23:26<DaleStan>Is coding ever talked about there? Except by patchbot?
23:26<Lakie>Night Belugas.
23:26<Lakie>Heh, probably not
23:27<DaleStan>Good night.
23:27-!-glx [] has quit [Quit: bye]
23:47-!-Lakie [~Lakie@] has quit [Quit: Good Night all.]
---Logclosed Fri Apr 18 00:00:21 2008