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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-04-18

---Logopened Fri Apr 18 00:00:21 2008
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00:37<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12761 /trunk/src/ (33 files in 8 dirs): -Codechange: lots of minor whitespace coding style fixes around operators.
00:54<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12762 /trunk/src/ (13 files in 3 dirs): -Fix: tabs after the first non-tab character are generally not okay (or lines starting with a space and then tabs).
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03:22<SirBob>How do I use the hidden mask in ShowDropDownMenu?
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03:25<@peter1138>set the bits corresponding to the entries you want hidden
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03:32<Roest>so lets try to get some work done today
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03:53<SirBob>Ok, I'm a bit confused. If I have 11 strings and I dont want the 11th one shown, what do I type?
03:56<Kloopy>You don't type, you just put the 11th string into the bin in the kitchen, that'll get rid of it!
04:00<Celestar>yapp's a bigass patch
04:00<Kloopy>But oh so good!
04:01<@peter1138>it is
04:02<@peter1138>does anyone have a spare set of eyes?
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04:02<Kloopy>What're you looking for?
04:03<Kloopy>Heh. You lost yours? :P
04:03<@peter1138>no, they're just fucking shit
04:03<@peter1138>i need a mark 2
04:04<Kloopy>If they are getting worse you should only ever use one at a time, that way you double the life span of your "shit" eyes before they stop completely.
04:04<Kloopy>I vote you start by closing your right eye for today and your left eye tomorrow./
04:05<Celestar>peter1138: mark 2?
04:05<Kloopy>He wants a better model pair of eyes.
04:05<Celestar>peter1138: _I_ have bad eyes, not you
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04:07<Roest>eyes are overrated
04:08<Roest>Celestar: yapp's a biggass patch << tell me about it, merging it with current trunk was a pain :/
04:12<Celestar>peter1138: -7.5 diopters
04:15<Tefad>no idea what i have
04:15<@peter1138>5 or 6 for me, and the massive astigmatism
04:15<Tefad>nearsighted, can't see clearly past 30cm from face without prescription
04:17<@peter1138>^ haha
04:17<Tefad>what happened there
04:20<Celestar>peter1138: I had massive astigmatism about 10 years ago, now I'm back to 0 for whatever reason
04:20<@peter1138>Tefad: overrevved or somesuch
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04:20<Celestar>diopters are a stupid unit :S
04:24<Celestar>why not just focal lenth :S
04:25<Tefad>because it varies? *shrug*
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04:25<Tefad>oh wait
04:25<Tefad>it's reciprocal focal length
04:25<Celestar>diopter is the reciprocal focal length
04:25<Tefad>yeah so, it's not that far off
04:28<Celestar>did anyone ever proofread yapp?
04:29*blathijs didn't
04:29<Celestar>4900 lines :o
04:30<@peter1138>it was smaller when i read it
04:30<@peter1138>i only skimmed it really
04:30<Celestar>I'll thoroughly read it over the weekend, shouldn't I?
04:31<@peter1138>istr hackykid's pbs was quite large too
04:32<Roest>do it please
04:32*Roest chants trunk trunk trunk
04:35*Celestar wonders how to commit this in chunks?
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04:44<@peter1138>or is it assassin?
04:44<@peter1138>Mad ass, as in?
04:45<larsemil>mad as sas in. sas being scsi
04:46<Madassasin>The missing 'S' is intended
04:46<Madassasin>it's the 32nd time you start picking over it
04:46<@peter1138>first time for me
04:47<@peter1138>i'm a "picking over it" virgin
04:47<larsemil>me as well
04:47<Madassasin>well, actually it's the 2nd time, but whatever
04:47<larsemil>i rarely say anything at all in this channel
04:47<Roest>so curious...what's the intention behind the missing s?
04:48<Madassasin>Madassassin was taken :P
04:48<Madassasin>neah, it was a typo and I ended up sticking with it
04:48<Roest>reminds me of picking gandalff int he first MUD i played
04:49<larsemil>roest int he? :D :D
04:50<Roest>tyops stupid, know them, love them
04:50<Tefad>assassin assassout
04:50<Tefad>*UNZ* *UNZ* *UNZ*
04:56<Madassasin>free(Tefad); Tefad = NULL;
04:57<@Bjarni>Tefad got nullified
04:58<Madassasin>Gahhhh! MSVC is refusing to include the icon in the executable! ~:(
04:58<@Bjarni>shit happens
04:59-!-Fingon2 is now known as Fingon
04:59<@Bjarni>this is one of the issues that I never had with the bundle stuff... that is after I figured out how it works
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04:59*Madassasin wonders what the **** is wrong
04:59<@Bjarni>which were max 5 minutes of trial and error
05:00*Madassasin based his .rc on the OTTD .rc
05:01<@Bjarni>Madassasin: while we usually don't kick people for foul language we do kick people for censorship :P
05:01<Madassasin>ok, sure
05:01<Tefad>i take it Madassasin knows of that flash animation
05:01*Madassasin wonders what the heck is wrong
05:02<@Bjarni>besides **** could be a huge amount of words
05:02<Madassasin>free(Tefad); // For some reason free'ing once doesn't work
05:02<@Bjarni>Madassasin wonders what the cows is wrong <-- so I decide to read the **** like this
05:03<Madassasin>String.Replace("Madassasin wonders what the **** is wrong", "****", "heck", false);
05:03<@peter1138>s/****/Castlemaine XXXX/
05:04<Tefad>Madassasin: i was declared const
05:04<Roest>****** ** **** *****!
05:05<@Bjarni>Roest: I don't want people to talk about my family like that
05:05<@Bjarni>please take it back
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05:05<Tefad>won't compile for me.
05:05<@Bjarni>what a lame flash animation
05:05<Roest>Bjarni: ok, ****** ** **** *****, except bjarnis family!
05:06<@peter1138>it's a flash animation, what did you expect?
05:06<Madassasin>const void* Tefad = malloc(1); free((void*) Tefad);
05:06<Tefad>that's just nonsense
05:06<Madassasin>it's valid C
05:06<Celestar>how do I display the users in irssi?
05:06<@Bjarni>peter1138: a bit more quality since somebody in here linked to it
05:07<Madassasin>Well, anyway, anyone able to help with some .rc problems?
05:08<@Bjarni>Madassasin: I would already have told you if I had any idea on how to solve your problem ;)
05:08<@Bjarni>but I have the policy not to get involved in other people's issues, specially people on the internet
05:09<Roest>bjarni, my dog died, my girlfriend left me and i bankrupt, please help me
05:10<@Bjarni>Madassasin: now it's Roest's turn to get nullified
05:10<Madassasin>Sure boss!
05:10<Madassasin>free(Roest); Roest = NULL;
05:10<@Bjarni>now the problem is gone
05:10<Roest>Java.lang.nullpointerexception take this
05:11<Madassasin>or: delete Roest; Roest = NULL; // whichever you like
05:11<@Bjarni>at least for me
05:11<Tefad>garbage collectors ignore me
05:11<Madassasin>Java != C
05:11<Tefad>i'm long life
05:11<Roest>i figured java would confuse you and i'd get away
05:12*HMage nullifies Bjarni
05:12<Madassasin>memset(&Tefad, 0, 1); memset(&Roest, 0, 1); memset(&HMage, 0, 1);
05:12<@Bjarni>permission denied
05:13<Madassasin>THAT should do it.
05:13*HMage throws SIGSEGV at Madassasin
05:13<Tefad>what part of readonly do you not understand
05:13*HMage throws SIGSEGV at Bjarni
05:13<Madassasin>Madassasin does not handle system events.
05:13<Roest>*** ***** **** you!
05:13<HMage>then you'll be coredumped ;D
05:13<Tefad>** **** ********
05:13<@Bjarni>Roest: pervert :P
05:13<@peter1138>Bjarni, how's autoreplace going?
05:14<@Bjarni>I looked at it yesterday
05:14<@Bjarni>proofread something
05:14<@Bjarni>and figured that it needs more work. I could imagine cases where it wouldn't do as expected so it failed my quality check
05:15<Roest>what's wrong with the current autoreplace?
05:15<Madassasin>for (int i = 0; ; i++) {void* stuff = i; memset(stuff, 0, 1);}
05:15<@Bjarni>but eventually it will end up being stable and then you will be informed ;)
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05:15<Roest>besides it sometimes behaves strangely
05:15<@Bjarni><Roest> what's wrong with the current autoreplace? <--- minor issues like not liking some newGRF overwrites
05:16<HMage>Madassasin: memsetting 0x0 is segfault-worthy :)
05:16<@Bjarni>and cost estimations can't handle wagon removal
05:16<Madassasin>HMage: doesn't matter
05:16<@Bjarni><Roest> besides it sometimes behaves strangely <-- what do you mean by that?
05:16<Madassasin>mov HMage,123
05:16-!-HMage is now known as HMage123
05:17<Madassasin>what the?!
05:17<@Bjarni>HMage can count
05:17<@Bjarni>good boy
05:17<Roest>lets say i have a group of 50 trains of the same type, and i issue an autoreplace order, then sometimes trains go to the depot and come out unchanged
05:17<@Bjarni>big boy
05:17<Madassasin>Roest: get enough cash
05:17<@Bjarni>Roest: did you check your cash?
05:18<@Bjarni>and your "autorenew money" setting?
05:18<Roest>when is cash ever a problem?
05:18<@Bjarni>in the beginning
05:18<Roest>hardly use autoreplace int he beginning
05:18-!-HMage123 is now known as HMage
05:18<Roest>anyway another thing i dont like is that the replaced engine stays in the left window blacked out if there's zero of that type left
05:18<@Bjarni>you know... make a savegame where it happens (autosaves can be nice here) and give it to me and I will take a look
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05:19<@peter1138>Roest: that's a feature
05:20<@peter1138>by design, etc
05:20<@Bjarni><Roest> anyway another thing i dont like is that the replaced engine stays in the left window blacked out if there's zero of that type left <-- I'm considering to kick it out in such a case but then it shouldn't be buildable by any player and no player should own it
05:20<@Bjarni>otherwise it should stay there in case say you buy an AI player then your old settings becomes active again
05:21-!-SmatZ [] has joined #openttd
05:21<@Bjarni>but kicking it out is of little concern compared to what else I can code so it will not happen in the near future
05:21<Madassasin>say("Bye!"); exit(ID_IRC); exit(ID_COMPUTER); return 0;
05:21<Roest>ah i wondered why it was kept, that's a scenario i didnt think of
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05:21<@Bjarni>hi SmatZ
05:21<Roest>you renamed depot tiles again!
05:22<@peter1138>it's kept because the rule is still there
05:22<@peter1138>even if you have no vehicles of that type
05:22<Roest>probably should make it hideable
05:23<@peter1138>you can remove it
05:23<SmatZ>hello Bjarni
05:23<@Bjarni>removing it frees up some memory (very little) and makes looping though all the rules faster so kicking out rules that you for sure can't use anymore would be a better solution
05:24<@Bjarni>imagine in the future if we make good use of the 16 bit EngineIDs and we have say 5000 engines then it could be a whole lot of rules
05:25<@Bjarni>however I don't think this is a likely scenario
05:25<Roest>more != better in some cases
05:26<@Bjarni>I didn't say anything about better
05:26<@Bjarni>I said that in the future we might be able to add more
05:26<@Bjarni>and then the code shouldn't act stupid if it happens
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05:27<@peter1138>might be able to?
05:27<Roest>someone needs to rescue michael blunck from the tmnt so he can continue work on the dbset
05:27<@peter1138>Bjarni: < that sort of "might" ?
05:29<@peter1138>Roest: tmnt?
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05:30<Roest>you dont know?
05:30<Roest>google it
05:31<Noldo>teenage mutant ninja turtles?
05:31<HMage>tmnt == these tiny mutated ninja turtles?
05:32<Roest>HMage: that would TTMNT
05:33<HMage>take "these" out of abbreviation
05:34<@Bjarni>peter1138: yeah... something like that ;)
05:35<Roest>that's just crazy
05:37<Roest>so i tried getting my gf into ottd yesterday, it failed because there was no ship refittable for tourists, damn ECS
05:38<Roest>and i wasnt able to build a wellness area
05:40<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12763 /trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): -Fix: some headers were missing/still included in the MSVC project files.
05:41<@Bjarni>Roest: this isn't an issue with OpenTTD. It's an issue with gf or grf
05:43<@Bjarni>Roest: I'm sorry to report that it wouldn't make sense to report bugs in your gf in here :p
05:44<King-J>Roset: Toyland? Thats gotta work :P
05:44-!-King-J is now known as KingJ
05:45<@Bjarni>I know for a fact that toyland was rejected by a 10 year old because it was too childish
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05:49<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12764 /trunk/projects/generate: -Add: check for missing (forgotten) header files in the generate script.
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06:08<Roest>umm that's strange
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06:17<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12765 /trunk/src/ (13 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: move some stuff out of variables.h that required including other headers in variables.h.
06:18<Celestar>kill variables.h \o/
06:19<@Rubidium>Celestar: slowly getting there (very slowly though)
06:19*Celestar shudders thinking of rev1
06:20<Celestar>or even the revisions way before this svn repo
06:20-!-Arie- [] has joined #openttd
06:20<Celestar>when the old repo was LOST
06:20<ln>the island
06:25*Celestar still wonders how one can lose an entire repo
06:26<Roest>i just discovered show reserved track tile in yapp ^^
06:26<@peter1138>disk corruption
06:26<@peter1138>file corruption
06:26<@peter1138>database corruption
06:26<Celestar>peter1138: the backup was lost too
06:26*HMage wants to checkout svn r1 and try to compile :D
06:26<@peter1138>no ba...
06:26<Celestar>offsite backup
06:26<@peter1138>then i guess something corrupted and the backup got corrupted too
06:26<@peter1138>before my time
06:26<Celestar>HMage: rather go on sourceforge and download the the old sources
06:26<Celestar>peter1138: not before mine :)
06:26<@peter1138>still: mercurial!
06:27<HMage>Celestar: I just want. I won't do it -- I don't have time.
06:27<@peter1138>let's stop having rXXXXXs ;)
06:27<Mwa>I'm doing it right now. ;)
06:28<HMage>Mwa: if it runs, care to profile r1 against HEAD ? :)
06:28<Mwa>HMage, if you tell me how to, sure
06:28<HMage>add -pg to CFLAGS, then $ gprof openttd
06:28<HMage>after running
06:28<Celestar>HMage: do sense
06:28<Celestar>HMage: 256x256 maps only
06:29<Celestar>and many things were much much slower
06:29<Celestar>many problems didn
06:29<Celestar>many problems didn't show up on small maps
06:29<@Rubidium>HMage: too much effort for head ;)
06:29<HMage>your makefiles don't support $ make CFLAGS=-pg ?
06:30<@Rubidium>./configure --enable-profiling && make run-prof
06:30<HMage>ah, see? :)
06:30<HMage>it's even easier
06:30<HMage>was that documented anywhere?
06:30<@Rubidium>for r1 though...
06:30<Celestar>no configure in rev1 :)
06:30<Celestar>just edit Makefile.config
06:30<Mwa>there is one
06:30<Celestar>not for linux
06:31<@peter1138>we had a configure for ages
06:31<Mwa>well, it says it checked out revision 1, and there's a configure file here
06:31<@Rubidium>HMage: ./configure --help && make help
06:31<Celestar>Mwa: yeah, but it's for some weird-ass platform :)
06:31<Celestar>peter1138: not THAT long actually
06:31<@peter1138>well, it was there when i started
06:31<@peter1138>which is long enough to matter
06:32<@peter1138>(there is no before me, right?)
06:32<Celestar>peter1138: yeah, but not the linux-worthy one
06:32<Mwa>I'm on a mac. Should I just skip ./configure
06:32<Celestar>Mwa: yes.
06:32<Celestar>Mwa: edit Makefile.config
06:32<@peter1138>not the current one, but it was there and worked for me
06:33<Mwa>See, I've never done this sort of thing manually before. :p
06:34<Mwa>My only experience of compiling is running ./configure, make and make install/bundle
06:34<@Rubidium>Mwa: you don't have to do make before make install or make bundle
06:35<Mwa>You don't?
06:35<Celestar>got it
06:35<Celestar>@openttd commit 3865
06:35<@DorpsGek>Celestar: Commit by truelight :: r3865 trunk/configure (2006-03-14 19:12:39 UTC)
06:35<@DorpsGek>Celestar: -Add: a fully optional configure script, that is a wrapper around
06:35<@DorpsGek>Celestar: Makefile.config, inserting data directly into it. This is needed for the
06:35<@DorpsGek>Celestar: CompileFarm (nightly) and most likely it will help out many people who want
06:35<@DorpsGek>Celestar: to cross-compile. I might have missed several options out of the
06:35<@DorpsGek>Celestar: (...)
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06:36*Celestar remembers Tron detonating on this one
06:36<@peter1138>misremembered then
06:36<@peter1138>he didn't like the new one either :)
06:38-!-extspotter [] has joined #openttd
06:38<extspotter>hey I need to find a GRF but I cant find it
06:38-!-extspotter [] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!]
06:39<Celestar>peter1138: well, yes, he didn't care about the old one
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06:39<@peter1138>wrong button?
06:39<extspotter>already checked
06:39<extspotter>industrial stations v0.98
06:39<@peter1138>if it's not on grfcrawler, you'll have to either search the frooms or google for it
06:40<@peter1138>what one is it, btw?
06:40<Roest>why not use IS renewal?
06:41<@peter1138>yeah, either use the industrial station renewal
06:41<@peter1138>follow the us station link on grfcrawler
06:41<@peter1138>(it's there)
06:42<Gekz>what kind of bandwidth would you need for an openttd server?
06:42<@peter1138>masses for downloading the map
06:42<@peter1138>minute during the game
06:42<Gekz>how big is the map usually
06:42<Gekz>I never check these things
06:42<extspotter>I am trying to joinsomeone's ga,e
06:42<extspotter>I can't get the 3979 thing working
06:43<extspotter>in order to start my own
06:45<Roest>3979 thing?
06:45<Roest>in peters words, it's liek saying my email isnt working
06:47<Gekz>he hasnt forwarded his ports properly
06:47<Gekz>and hes asking for assistance
06:47<extspotter>port forwarding?
06:48<Roest>didnt you you're trying to join someones game?
06:48<Roest>no port forwarding needed then
06:49<extspotter>in order to make my own game
06:49<extspotter>because I cant find that GRF anywhere
06:49<extspotter>I've checked on forums, on google, on grf crawler
06:49<@peter1138>you need to log in to your router and forward ports. probably.
06:50<extspotter>The password for the router doesnt work
06:50<Gekz>you dont have the password
06:50<@peter1138>well we can't help you with that :)
06:50<Gekz>the password works fine
06:50<Gekz>if you have it
06:51<Roest>we can guess tho
06:51<extspotter>I have the password, but it doesnt work
06:51<Roest>chances are you don't have the password then
06:51<extspotter>because the techhy guy who ,lives with us wrote it down
06:51<Gekz>then its not right
06:52<Ammller>extspotter: new ISR include that one
06:52<Ammller>its obsolete now
06:52<Roest>well as a matter of fact you have "a" password instead of "the" password
06:52<@peter1138>Ammller: possible he needs it to join an existing game
06:52<@peter1138>which ISR won't help with
06:52<Gekz>Roest: its only "a" password if somewhere in the world it's used as a password
06:52<Ammller>then I would have a exklusive link to it :-)
06:52<@peter1138>Roest: or maybe it is the right password... but the wrong username :)
06:53<extspotter>grf mismatch still
06:53<Ammller>extspotter: which server?
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06:53<Ammller>(a private one?)
06:54<extspotter>!ians newstations
06:58<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12766 /trunk/src/ (group_gui.cpp lang/english.txt vehicle_gui.cpp): -Add: sorting by road vehicle/train length. Based on a patch by Sir Bob.
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07:01<SirBob>Woot. My patch made it :)
07:02<@Rubidium>more like a few lines of your patch
07:03<@peter1138>and the idea ;)
07:03<Roest>man people still play gonozals?
07:03<Noldo>name in the log anyway :)
07:03<SmatZ>the original patch had compilation warnings and didn't work at all :-P
07:03<@Rubidium>Roest: people still play MiniIN
07:03<@peter1138>r9896, heh
07:03<@Rubidium>SmatZ: warnings AND errors (for me at least)
07:04<@peter1138>and a 0.5.2 server
07:04<Roest>i'm a tech monkey, i want to be as close to current revision as possible
07:04<SirBob>hmm...worked for me. oh well
07:04<@peter1138>Roest: that helps for developers too
07:05<Roest>SirBob: now that you patch made it in, go rewrite paxdest
07:06<@Rubidium>rewrite number 5?
07:07<@peter1138>that low?
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07:10<William1333>Is there some body how nows how you can get new grf?
07:11<@DorpsGek>Ammller: original grf files:
07:11<@DorpsGek>Ammller: newgrf files:
07:11<@peter1138>don't do that
07:11<Ammller>sorry, had forgotten :-)
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07:12<Roest>**** *** *****
07:12<Ammller>hmm, does "@grfs @somebody" work with that bot?
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07:21<Ammller>You can save config with console command "saveconfig", but it seems, that it doesn't work, it changes the date of the cfg but the current settings and newgrfs for example aren't in.
07:36<Fingon>fun with the noai :
07:36<Fingon>i made it a bit too greedy :p
07:37<Phantasm>Some trucks. ;P
07:40<Kloopy>haha! That's awesome. And if the AI does that it must be the right way to play the game!
07:40<Kloopy>Thanks for the tip. :D
07:41<Fingon>it's still increasing
07:42<Fingon>while line is full and they're queueing to unload too
07:42<@peter1138>now teach it multistop
07:42<Phantasm>With 216 tonnes of coal, there is no need for multistop. ;P
07:43<Phantasm>Though, with more coal there is need.
07:43<Phantasm>Or hmmn.. Might actually even help with only 216 tonnes of coal.
07:43<Fingon>no even with 216 multistop is needed :P that's the lesson i learned now
07:43<Fingon>the trucks can't load the cargo fast enough
07:43<Fingon>so > 200 tons is left in the station
07:43<Phantasm>For such route, I would make a train, btw.
07:43<Fingon>so the AI thinks "let's add some trucks"
07:44<Fingon>no trains yet in NoAI :(
07:44<Fingon>that AI now has 216 road vehicles :') And just breaking even with running cost / profit
07:46<Tefad>holy crap
07:49<Fingon>428 vehicles now but it's going to go bankrupt soon
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07:58<@Rubidium>'lo frosch
07:59<frosch123>hello rubidium
07:59<@Rubidium>seems your FS#1930 works
08:00<frosch123>nice, fs#1935 is game over though :(
08:00<@Rubidium>game over in what sense?
08:01<@Rubidium>you've got no idea how to solve that?
08:01<@peter1138>bridges have been glitchy for ages
08:01<frosch123>no, it is really impossible to solve. currently replying...
08:01<@peter1138>just more and more sprites are drawn adding to problems :o
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09:25<Gekz>can the DayLength patch be server-side only?
09:25<Gekz>ie, the clients dont need it?
09:26<Sacro>Gekz: no
09:27<Sacro>well, not Sacro's Daylength Patch
09:27<Noldo>Gekz: nothing that has to do with gamestate can be server-side only
09:28<Sacro>you'd have to have the clients have their date updated by the server
09:28<Gekz>I thought the clients date _was_ updated by the server
09:29<Gekz>otherwise how would they stay in sync
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09:29<hylje>ottd networking doesn't work that way
09:30<Gekz>so what you're sayng is, the clients are not in sync at all?
09:30<hylje>clients are seeded identically
09:30<hylje>they run the simulation independently
09:31<Noldo>but there has to be something that prevents some client running faster than others?
09:31<hylje>fancy word for the game state
09:31<Noldo>Sacro: simulation doesn't imply realism
09:32<hylje>i believe just frames are synced
09:34<Eddi|zuHause2><Roest> anyway another thing i dont like is that the replaced engine stays in the left window blacked out if there's zero of that type left <- there might not be vehicles in the GROUP left, but you can add vehicles later that come from another group that you did not want to upgrade before
09:35<hylje>Roest: it stays grayed so long the replacing is active
09:35<Roest>wow you did it again, you really are reading hours old irc logs
09:35<hylje>Roest: it disappears when you remove the replacement order
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09:37<Roest>anyway we settled that earlier and i was convinced there are reasons for this behavior
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09:52<Eddi|zuHause2>i actually did that once... i did not want to upgrade all vehicles of a certain type, only some (e.g. steam->electric replacement only on the newly electrified route)
09:53<Eddi|zuHause2>so i created a new group with the rule, and put the vehicles to upgrade in there
09:53<Eddi|zuHause2>later, i electrified another route, and added another batch of vehicles, which then automatically upgraded because the rule was still active
09:56<Roest>usually when i decide to upgrade to electric rails, i have so much money i upgrade the entire network
09:57<Eddi|zuHause2>i never electrify the whole network
09:57<Mwa>Whyever not?
09:58<Sacro>cos it looks horrible
09:58<Mwa>That's what transparency (and in the nightlies invisibility) is for
09:58<Eddi|zuHause2>because of the nasty "r" word
09:58<Mwa>...r word?
09:59<Eddi|zuHause2>yes, that one ;)
09:59<Sacro>oh that one
09:59<Mwa>What realism? :p
10:01<Tefad>ertarded? ; )
10:01<Roest>hmm realism
10:01*Sacro just lost the game
10:02<Eddi|zuHause2>the lost game? i was told it's bad
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10:06<Roest>is there a command to recursively bulldoze buildings of size larger than one tile?
10:06<Roest>like when i invoke DoCommand(TileXY(x, y), 0, 0, flags, CMD_LANDSCAPE_CLEAR); it just clears one tile and i'd have to manually check if it belongs to somethign larger
10:07<Roest>hi roujin
10:07<Roujin>eh.. no?
10:07<Roest>that question was just to the general public, not you :)
10:08<Roujin>well, i belong to the public, so.. :P
10:08<Roujin>i might as well answer :P
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10:09<Roest>so procedure would be, check tile, see what on it, get all other tiles that belong to that, clear them all
10:09<Roujin>wait a second..
10:10<Gekz>Roujin: hai!
10:10<Noldo>there is this kind of virtual function like system for different types of tiles
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10:10<Roujin>CommandCost ClearTile_Town
10:10<Roujin>in town_cmd.cpp?
10:12<Roujin>void ClearTownHouse(Town *t, TileIndex tile)
10:12<Roest>yea, i have it open
10:13<Roujin>Gekz: nihongo wo hanashimasu ka? (yes sorry i know, english only :P)
10:13<Gekz>Ich bin krank.
10:13<Roest>actually i need something that also destroys industries that way
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10:14<Celestar>we finally need a ABC called Tile
10:14<Roujin>then look what ClearTile_Industry in industry_cmd.cpp does...
10:15<Roest>was thinking about a town authority option " buy airport space" the town would then clear a 3x4 up to 9x11 field at a random spot in the near vicinity of the town
10:15<Noldo>Celestar: ABC?
10:15<Celestar>abstract base class
10:17<Celestar>t->clear(); and that's it
10:18<Roest>celestar is the OO guy in disguise
10:18<hylje>let's rewrite ottd as functional!
10:19<Roest>i'd say use java so all this compiling wont be necessary anymore
10:20<hylje>java is compiled
10:20<Celestar>in this case, an ABC would really make things simpler ...
10:20<hylje>and it isn't exactly lightning fast
10:20<Roest>when was the last time you explicitely compiled a java program?
10:21<Roest>and about the speed issue, get a faster comp
10:21<Celestar>er ..
10:21<Roest>but then i wasnt serious
10:21<Fingon>16:04:09 <Roest> was thinking about a town authority option " buy airport space" the town would then clear a 3x4 up to 9x11 field at a random spot in the near vicinity of the town <-- nice! But hills might make that very difficult
10:22<Fingon>as it should also flatten the terrain then, so you have 3x4 up to 9x11 buildable terrain, so the town might need to clear a bigger area to be able to flatten terrain
10:23<hylje>it'd work as a flatten tool
10:23<hylje>plus dynamite for a reasonable amount of relocatable buildings
10:23<hylje>but being the town authority, it'd care about the environment
10:23<Roest>Fingon: i had a working version, besides from the industries cut in half, slopes were a problem
10:23<hylje>and not do overly expensive terraforming
10:23<hylje>even if the player would pay it
10:24<Roest>that option would be extremly expensive and probably limited in use
10:24<Roujin>that's an interesting new town option
10:24<Roujin>well i'm afk now
10:24<Roujin>playing poker with two nice girls :P
10:25<Roujin>wish it were strip poker xD
10:25<Roujin>no, with real cards on a real table ;)
10:25<Roujin>see you later
10:25<@peter1138>and real money?
10:25<Roujin>no, they're friends ;)
10:26<Roest>poker without real money = boring
10:27<Fingon>nah you can still play to win
10:27<Roest>don't need large sums
10:27<Fingon>but money makes it more interesting, idd
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10:44<sulai>hey guys
10:44<sulai>I'm trying to set eclipse up compiling OTTD
10:44<@peter1138>have fun :D
10:44<sulai>should I prefer using cygwin or mingw?
10:44<Eddi|zuHause2>mingw, anyway
10:44<Eddi|zuHause2>don't use cygwin
10:44<sulai>I'm in a windows environment;)
10:45<sulai>ok, so mingw is the better choice?
10:45<sulai>okay, thanks
10:45<Eddi|zuHause2>buildottd comes with a suitible mingw environment
10:45<sulai>peter1138: do you have experience setting up eclipse for ottd?
10:46<sulai>what is it about buildottd? Is is some sort of "auto-builder"?
10:47<Roest>sulai: if you succeed tell me what you did, i gave up at some point, i use eclipse for editing but do make at the command line
10:47<Eddi|zuHause2>for all the windows users who don't know how to use a compiler. it will fetch the source, and optionally apply one (!) patch file
10:48<sulai>Eddi|zuHause2: sounds nice, but it's not exactly what I want to have ;)
10:49<Eddi|zuHause2>what i mean, you can save the hassle of setting up mingw that way
10:49<sulai>Roest: I will do my very best - anyway if I don't suceed, using the command line is not the worst thing to do
10:49<sulai>I want to have a look at the code, too ;)
10:50<Eddi|zuHause2>yes, but that is a separate issue ;)
10:50<Eddi|zuHause2>"I will do my very best" <- "same procedure as last year?" :p
10:50<sulai>hehe :P
10:51<sulai>so what do you advice me? using "buildottd" and having a look at the code using a text editor?
10:51<sulai>msvc express?
10:51<Eddi|zuHause2>i don't want to distract you from the idea of using eclipse
10:52<sulai>hm well... whatever works best ;)
10:52<Eddi|zuHause2>i just wanted to say buildottd may do half the work for you
10:52<Roest>on windows i'd always choose visual studio over eclipse, too bad i'm on linux now
10:53<sulai>hm I like eclipse very much since I use it for java programming -- I don't know what it is like for C++ stuff
10:53<Roest>it's pretty good actually, get the integrated CDT build
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10:54<sulai>thats what I'm just doing =)
10:55<sulai>Roest: do you like msvc better than eclipse for C++/OTTD stuff?
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10:56<Roest>for C++ in general, but then i have msdnaa access so i get the full visual studio 2008 and not the express version
10:56<Eddi|zuHause2>sulai: the advantage of Visual Studio is, that ottd ships with project files
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10:58<Eddi|zuHause2>pünktchen pünktchen komma strich
10:58<Eddi|zuHause2>fertig ist das mondgesicht
10:58<sulai>Eddi|zuHause2: thanks for this hint ;) -- well I think I give eclipse a chance and if it wont work I switch over to msvc
11:02<Roest>another thing is, there are good svn plugins for eclipse, while there is ankh svn for visual studio which only works with registry hacks with the 2008 version
11:03<sulai>yep... thats why i give ecplipse a try
11:03<sulai>I don't like tortoise spread out in my context menu ;)
11:03<@peter1138>tortoise slows explorer a lot :o
11:03<@peter1138>and likes to make it crash
11:06<sulai>I'll be back ;)
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11:06<Roest>damn my patchpack grows, never ceases to amaze me that that all still works together
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11:12<Eddi|zuHause2>the biggest issue with "patch packs" is savegame compatibility
11:12<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12767 /trunk/src/ (gui.h main_gui.cpp misc.cpp toolbar_gui.cpp toolbar_gui.h): -Codechange: merge all main toolbar related functions into a single file instead of scattering the functionality over several files.
11:13<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12768 /trunk/ (7 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: move the statusbar GUI to it's own file.
11:14<Roest>yea that one wont load old ones
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11:14<Roest>i usually keep a clean 0.6.0 install for savegames i download
11:14<Ammller>maybe a function like compatibile_save?
11:14<Ammller>removing all patch releated data and save
11:15<Roest>you first have to mark data and stuff as patch related
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11:16<Ammller>as patch writer, you should know, which :-)
11:17<Eddi|zuHause2>what i always wonder, there is a "savegame minor version", with a big marker "do not use!"
11:17<Eddi|zuHause2>but i could imagine it would work great for patch versions
11:17<Roest>well yapp changed the savegame version, i have no clue why, but i guess he had his reasons
11:17<Roujin>eddi: it was used in the past
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11:18<+glx>it was a sillything
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11:18<Roujin>that's why it still exists, for backwards compatibility
11:18<Roest>that was a quick poker game
11:18<Roest>the girls naked already?
11:18<Roujin>there was a savegame version like 5.2 or something
11:18<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12769 /trunk/src/ (main_gui.cpp toolbar_gui.cpp): -Codechange: some coding style cleanups.
11:18<Roest>or you?
11:18<Roujin>no, i lost :P so if it WERE strip poker i'd be the naked one
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11:19<Eddi|zuHause2>i mean something like, trunk always use "0" minor version, and if you have a savegame altering patch, you set it to "1", so you can distinguish unchanged and changed savegames based on the same trunk version
11:19*Roujin goes back to play another round
11:19<Eddi|zuHause2>and in really bad cases, when your patch savegame format changes, you can set savegame minor version to "2"
11:20<Eddi|zuHause2>and you don't have to touch the major version
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11:20<Celestar>planetmaker: you there?
11:20<Eddi|zuHause2>which will always cause headaches with updating the patch
11:20<planetmaker>Celestar: I'm here
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11:21<Roujin>Eddi: nah, that won't work
11:21<planetmaker>how's it doing?
11:21<Celestar>planetmaker: I just have a professional question that bothered me today
11:21<Eddi|zuHause2>Roujin: why not?
11:21<Roujin>if trunk uses 90 and you use 90.1, then trunk increases to 91...
11:22<planetmaker>uh... ask right away.
11:22<Roujin>91 > 90.1
11:22<Eddi|zuHause2>you automatically increase to 91.1
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11:22<Eddi|zuHause2>and then can do different stuff depending on wether you load 90.0 or 90.1 savegames
11:22<Roujin>yes, but a bigger savegame version should always be able to load previous ones
11:23<Eddi|zuHause2>in 98% of all cases, trunk savegame bumps do not influence your patch at all
11:23<Celestar>planetmaker: is it me, or are we in a Carbon-rich and silicon-rich universe, YET we live on a carbon-poor and silicon-rich planet and YET the life developed on a carbon basis and not on a silicon basis?
11:23<Roujin>eddi: you seem to entirely miss the point about the savegame version..
11:23<Eddi|zuHause2>Roujin: trunk will never be able to load patched savegames, it is totally independent of the version
11:24<Eddi|zuHause2>like trunk will only ever load .0 savegames
11:24<Brianetta>peter1138: That's a hilarious video
11:24<planetmaker>Celestar: afaik the chemical properties of carbon are much more versatile than those of silicon (wrt bonding "angle")
11:24<planetmaker>Celestar: The chemical composition of our solar system is pretty average in every respect.
11:24<planetmaker>Also that of earth
11:25<Celestar>planetmaker: seems so. apparently carbon chains are much better suited than Si-chains or Si-O chains
11:25<Celestar>planetmaker: shouldn't C be more common than Si?
11:26<@peter1138>yeha, i need a cat or two...
11:26<Eddi|zuHause2>it's ever so funny with the astronomers, they have exactly one case, and draw conclusions about "average" ;)
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11:26<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause2: 200 billion stars in this galaxy alone are hardly "one case"
11:27<Eddi|zuHause2>yes, but habitable planets... or universes?
11:27<planetmaker>Celestar: not neccessarily. once you've reached carbon via fusion, it's easy to add another helium to get to oxygen. Silicon is basically two carbons fused.
11:27<Celestar>ay, but 16-O is a very very stable core
11:27<@peter1138>no, they're just... cats
11:27<Celestar>more so than 12-C and Si
11:27<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause2: statistics are billions as Celestar pointed out. Even other galaxies are spectroscopically available
11:28<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause2: but we only have one known habitable planet at the present time
11:28<planetmaker>Celestar: but nevertheless you gain energy via fusion 2*12C->24Si(?)
11:28<Celestar>will change soon
11:28<Celestar>planetmaker: every fusion up to Fe gains energy :)
11:29<planetmaker>Celestar: exactly. And as long as that's the case, it will happen - provided the star is heavy enough to provide the fusion temperature necessary.
11:29<Digitalfox>The open Executable is growing a lot :p
11:29<Celestar>unless it goes Nova or Supernova before :)
11:29<Celestar>Digitalfox: ?
11:29<Digitalfox>Celestar Well it use to have 2MB now 4MB
11:30<Digitalfox>Not that it's a bad thing..
11:30<Yexo>Digitalfox: that depends on debuging options, mine is currently 43MB :P
11:31<Digitalfox>Yexo not bad ;)
11:31<planetmaker>Celestar: as long as there ARE elements available for fusion a supernova won't happen.
11:31<Digitalfox>but Yexo you have all debug options activated?
11:31<planetmaker>a nova is something entirely different... though also at the end of a star's life
11:32<Yexo>I think so
11:32<Celestar>planetmaker: but the Supernova happens for you have a ball of iron, right?
11:32<Yexo>configured with --enable-debug=3
11:32<Digitalfox>open is running pretty slow then Yexo, right?
11:32<planetmaker>Celestar: basically yes: you have an iron core and reach an equilibrium between fission and fusion --> no energy gain anymore
11:33<Celestar>debug 3 is always slow
11:33<@peter1138>no it's not
11:33<Celestar>it's -O0
11:33<Celestar>and on inlines afaik
11:34<@peter1138>well it's fast enough to play for me
11:34<Yexo>it's not too slow, on an empty created 512x512 map I can do fast forward pretty fast
11:34<Celestar>for me too
11:34<Celestar>but thats cuz I have a fast pooter
11:35<Celestar>not because the code is fast :)
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11:46<Digitalfox>I guess this has been debated a lot, but Is there any possible way of using less CPU in general when heavy loaded with vehicles on a 1024*1024 map? Like using more RAM instead of CPU, or using some kind of temporary files or cache to perform some CPU tasks? I'm sure most of Devs have thought about this and maybe came to the conclusion nothing can be done, but any plans what so ever to reduce...
11:46<Digitalfox>...CPU load?
11:46<@peter1138>pause the game
11:46<@peter1138>that stops cpu load
11:47<Lakie>no offense, but its hard to reduce cpu load on a 1024x1024 map with a few hundred vehicles, unless you decide to stop processing vehicles or something
11:47<Lakie>Not that I'm have had issues.
11:47<@peter1138>just get a 10GHz CPU
11:48<@peter1138>bit of LN cooling...
11:48<Lakie>That still might not be enough to cool it
11:49<Lakie>Digitalfox: until the RAM can do processing itself (impossible) the cpu will still need to process every event on the map
11:49*Lakie ponders if parts can be processed through the gpu
11:49<@peter1138>nobody has yet come up with a good idea for parallel processing
11:49<@peter1138>(i think people think we're just against it, or something)
11:50<Lakie>Due to the Well, TTD is quite closely nit
11:50<Lakie>to multithread it you have to break it into sections of code...
11:50<@Belugas>because we do not like their ideas, 'cause they have flaws!
11:50<@peter1138>not even that
11:50<Lakie>And then there are the pools of data which need to be shared...
11:51<@peter1138>i can't really think of anything that could be done multi threaded
11:51<@peter1138>well... music player maybe...
11:51<Lakie>Belugas: Icon works ok on my XP box.
11:51<Lakie>Err... me neither.
11:51<Mwa>But it doesn't use much processing power anyway.
11:51<@Belugas>mmmh... that's good for you and bad for me :(
11:52<Digitalfox>So how do modern games use GPU? I'm refering to crysis and others that use a lot the GPU.. Have they be built from the ground using GPU?
11:52<@peter1138>they're FPSes...
11:52<Lakie>Like I said I've not had any issues with performance with OpenTTD, but then I don't do stupid things like have 600 vehicles on a 2048x2048 map
11:52<@peter1138>they use the GPU to draw... 3D graphics
11:53<Lakie>They are structured differently.
11:53<@peter1138>drawing graphics is not the slow thing in ottd
11:53<hylje>split the landscape into pieces
11:53<Digitalfox>peter1138 I know but don't they use GPU for helping CPU in calculations?
11:53<Lakie>Is it all the processing of the vehicles and industries or am I wrong?
11:53<Lakie>No, Digitalfox.
11:53<@peter1138>they use the GPU for drawing
11:54<Lakie>The GPU has its own instruction set, which is not useful for CPU commands.
11:54<Roest>long story short, people are dumb
11:54<hylje>there's CUDA though
11:54<@Rubidium>hylje: yeah... great with 24 bits operations, but anything else... slooooowwwww
11:54<@Rubidium>and how much 24 bits operations are done in OpenTTD?
11:55*Lakie hides
11:55<Fingon>is stuff like SSE used ?
11:55<@Rubidium>if the compiler thinks it's needed maybe
11:56<Lakie>SSE is aimed for at vector and matrix calcaulations.
11:56<@peter1138>of which there are... uh... none?
11:56<Fingon>SSE can do 4 floating point ops in the time in takes to do 1 flop
11:56<Lakie>Just because the hardware is there doesn't mean it has to be used. ;)
11:56<@peter1138>we have no floating point ops
11:56<Fingon>ah lol
11:57<Lakie>The zoom banch might have to though, to get 'smooth' movement when zoomed in.
11:58<@peter1138>the zoom branch is pure fantasy
11:58<Lakie>(It'd work slightly better but still wouldn't work still).
11:58<@peter1138>(or patch, rather)
11:58<Mwa>Is there a list of train related NewGRFs with downloads that work somewhere?
11:58<Lakie>Belugas: why bad for you?
11:58<@peter1138> is as close as you'll get
12:00<@Belugas>'cause it means i have a probklem and not you :)
12:00<Lakie>Hmmm... I can't see why you would have a problem
12:00*Lakie continues to restore his files
12:02<@Belugas>sorry, Sacro.
12:02<@Belugas>i meant shropmblemz
12:02<Sacro>Belugas: tis alright
12:02*Lakie shall try again later
12:02<Sacro>god this lecture sucks
12:03<Roest>what's up with people suggesting oil pipelines and powerlines
12:03<Lakie>urgh, XP file transfers so slow compared to Vista.
12:03<Mwa>Bah, most of the station sets take you to invalid urls
12:03<Lakie>6MB/s compared to 10.3~MB/s
12:03<Lakie>They probably weren't invalid when they got added, Mwa.
12:04<Mwa>Lakie, true.
12:04-!-Mwa [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
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12:05*peter1138 yawns
12:05<Lakie>MB's site is dead
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12:06<Lakie>Guess this means the DB XL Set 0.87 wll never see the light of day.
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12:12<Digitalfox>Lakie I thin XP transfers are equal or even fastr than Vista :)
12:14<Eddi|zuHause2>i never got XP to use more than 60% of the network
12:14<Eddi|zuHause2>bah, my svn is totally acting up these days...
12:16<Lakie>60% is about where XP cuts off
12:16<Lakie>Out of a 10MB/s network, XP never really uses the maximum, Vista will quite happily transfer between 9 and 10 MB/s
12:16<Eddi|zuHause2>i never understood it, because the hard disks are significantly faster than that
12:17<Fingon>my XP gets 10 MB over a network all the time...
12:17<Eddi|zuHause2>locally on linux i copy with over 20MB/s
12:17<Lakie>IUs it a 10MB/s network or a Gigabit?
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12:18<Fingon>100 Mbit ethernet ofc
12:18<Eddi|zuHause2>100Mbit/s is around 12MB/s
12:18<Fingon>so theoretical maximum of 12.5 Mbyte, but overhead and stuff, so 10 Mbyte is about the limit
12:18<KingJ>and 1Gbit/s is 120MB/sec (in theory - most i've got is ~40MB/sec)
12:18<Eddi|zuHause2>but even with overhead you should get 10MB/s out of it, but i never achieved that
12:19<ln>i have
12:19<Fingon>yeah KingJ disk read / write speed is about 40 MB max
12:19<Eddi|zuHause2>KingJ: that sounds like a proper limit of a modern HD
12:19<Lakie>Managing to get 120MB/s would be quite impressive...
12:19<KingJ>Yeah, the limiting factor :/
12:19<KingJ>I should improve my fileserver...
12:19<Eddi|zuHause2>well, you can have RAID and stuff ;)
12:19<KingJ>Mind you, no more room in the case for more hard drives in my fileserver :P
12:20<ln>i've managed to get ~65MB/s on a LAN with HP Procurve switches and integrated NICs in computers.
12:20<Fingon>or one of those solid state things
12:20<Eddi|zuHause2>i have a cooling problem with my HDs
12:20<CIA-3>OpenTTD: glx * r12770 /trunk/projects/generate.vbs: -Add: check for missing (forgotten) header files in the generate.vbs script.
12:21<KingJ>Solid state dosen't come cheap sadly (yet)
12:21<Lakie>Solid state will come down in price though.
12:21<KingJ>I'm just waiting for that day
12:22*Belugas prefers liquid state. Does not hurt ar much while coming down on hed, foot or else
12:22<KingJ>Belugas: Why not gaseous state then?
12:22<Fingon>that costs even more :|
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12:24<Eddi|zuHause2>let's turn the sun into a fileserver
12:24<KingJ>The latency is an issue
12:24<Fingon>and backups...
12:24*Lakie wonders how liquid state would work, as the data wouldn't be in a constant place leading to massive fragmentation and data loss.
12:24<Fingon>what if the sun explodes, all data gone :/
12:25<Eddi|zuHause2>latency can be reduced with caches
12:25<KingJ>Or, we could bring the sun a bit closer?
12:25<Eddi|zuHause2>Fingon: have redundancy
12:25<Fingon>redundancy as in using a whole bunch of stars?
12:25<Lakie>KingJ: but then we'd all die from excessive heat waves.
12:26-!-Yexo [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:26<KingJ>Lakie: Soak it up. Who cares if we all die - we will have the best fileserver ever!
12:26<Eddi|zuHause2>takes only 4 years to get the backup ;)
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12:28<Fingon>is there a way to see the total number of vehicles ingame, summed over all players?
12:29<Eddi|zuHause2>open all player windows ;)
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12:30<Eddi|zuHause2>ideally, you would have access to these variables via the console [noai]
12:32<Fingon>i'll just get my calculator then :p
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12:52<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12771 /trunk/src/ (main_gui.cpp variables.h viewport.cpp): -Codechange: remove more from variables.h.
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13:18<@Rubidium>oh noes... a Yorick
13:18<Yorick>oh noes... a Yorick-basher!
13:19<Yorick>oh noes... /me is a Yorick-basher-basher!
13:20<Tefad>that's not meta
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13:21<Eddi|zuHause2>hm, something failed with my attempt to update paxdest
13:21<Eddi|zuHause2>trains don't load any passengers anymore
13:21<Eddi|zuHause2>but trams do
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13:25<Eddi|zuHause2>hm, it's even more weird, trains with 2 axle wagons do load passengers, trains with 4 axle wagons (both local and long distance) don't
13:30<@Rubidium>I'd call that an interesting way of syncing
13:32<Eddi|zuHause2>hm, trying a savegame from a different stage suggest it's an unrelated newgrf incompatibility
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13:33<Eddi|zuHause2>funny, fast forward turns off during autosave ;)
13:35<boyinblue0>i have a problem
13:36<Wolf01>I have lots of problem
13:37-!-[1]Roujin [] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> <- Go on, try it!]
13:37<boyinblue0>i downloaded the latest nightly build and then got all the files into its directory and then started it but when I run it, it should be running r12735 but instead it runs r12751
13:38<@Rubidium>that's because you've downloaded the 12751 nightly I guess
13:38<@Rubidium>and not the 12735 one
13:38<+glx>latest nightly is 12751
13:39<Eddi|zuHause2>@openttd latest
13:39<Eddi|zuHause2>@openttd nightly
13:40<+glx>@openttd youngest
13:40<@DorpsGek>glx: latest: r12771
13:40<+glx>that's the latest rev
13:40<boyinblue0>oooo thanks =]=]
13:40<boyinblue0>i now have it
13:40<boyinblue0>thankyou very much
13:41<Eddi|zuHause2>people don't seem to like my long distance trains...
13:41<Eddi|zuHause2>paxdests handling of trains that have similar non-shared routes is... suboptimal
13:43<Eddi|zuHause2>like if i have routes:
13:44<Eddi|zuHause2>people going between B and C don't seem to take some trains that they should take
13:45<Eddi|zuHause2>and generally people don't take a train unless it had a full round trip before
13:45<@peter1138>that's how it builds the links, i belive
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13:47<Eddi|zuHause2>yes, but if i have a new train going on an old route (with new orders), they won't take it, even though the destination is in their orders
13:47<@peter1138>could be built up the order lists
13:47<@peter1138>ah... dunno then
13:47<hylje>needs to support shared orders!
13:47<@peter1138>but probably it stores it per vehicle or something stupid
13:47<Eddi|zuHause2>but on the other hand, if i delete orders, the passengers immediately disappear
13:48<@peter1138>hmm, can't do it via order lists as you can stop at stations not in the list
13:48<Eddi|zuHause2>even if i buy a new train with the same orders again
13:48<@peter1138>sounds like a flawed system
13:48<@peter1138>maybe that's why it's not in trunk ;)
13:48<Eddi|zuHause2>it's far from perfect
13:48<Eddi|zuHause2>but my long distance trains have a very long round trip time...
13:49-!-|Jeroen| [] has quit [Quit: oO]
13:49<hylje>peter1138: why should them pax care about stops outside orders?
13:49<Eddi|zuHause2>hylje: local trains often have only the start and end point defined
13:50<Eddi|zuHause2>while still servicing all stations inbetween
13:53<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12772 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Codechange: some vehicle.cpp coding style.
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13:55<ln>is it actually a codechange if only the style changes?
13:55<Tefad>code is code.
13:56<Tefad>in C/C++ whitespace is generally ignored
13:56<ln>of course, depends on the definition of style.
13:56<Tefad>however if one adds a body to a loop/conditional that doesn't have one, i think that's definitely a code change.
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13:56<Tefad>multi-part statement?
13:58<rebry>anyone know if there is a subway Grf out there somewhere
13:58<Eddi|zuHause2>what kind of subway?
13:58<Eddi|zuHause2>there was a through-the-tube project, but i don't know much about that one
13:59<rebry>mm, cause the busses kinda creates a chaos in my game atm
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14:01<Eddi|zuHause2>anyway, "subways" would not be real subways anyway, because only overground rails are possible (and occasionally tunnels)
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14:17<@Rubidium>Chicago_Rail_Authority: luckily we have tab completion
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14:19<rebry>i hate peer...
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14:23<Eddi|zuHause2>what do you have against peer gynt?
14:23<rebry>he resets my connecton all the time
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14:35<Wolf01> how cute ^_^... I guess if any tt-artist ever submitted a work for this site
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14:45<Eddi|zuHause2>i was just thinking "there needs to be an escher version of one of those buildings", and then i switched to the next page :p
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14:51<Skasi>I've got a problem with new GRFs not being shown correct. The colors of new streets and stationplatforms for example are brown instead of grey. Launching OTTD with 256 colors does not help.
14:51<Skasi>It does not matter weither I start OpenTTD in windowed mode or fullscreen, by the way.
14:54<Eddi|zuHause2>Skasi: dos/windows grfs mixup probably
14:55<st6>do you have a grf to make maglevs look clearer
14:56<st6>i found some new_maglev.grf but it doesnt work
14:56<Skasi>uhm yes.. I am using Windoes XP and tested both the new v6.0 release and r12735
14:56<Eddi|zuHause2>there is a grf for transrapid tracks
14:57<Eddi|zuHause2>Skasi: it does not really matter what platform you are on, but what version your original TTD CD is for
14:57<Eddi|zuHause2>if you have taken the files from a DOS CD, you need DOS version of the newgrfs
14:57<Eddi|zuHause2>if you have taken the files from a Windows CD, you need Windows version of the newgrfs
14:59<ln>if you have taken the files from the Internet, you have done something illegal.
14:59<Skasi>not if I am owning the CD.. uhm.. let me have a look
15:00<rebry>if.. ive got the dos CD and have "borrowed" the windows verson from the internett then?
15:00<ln>Skasi: owning a CD does not really grant you a permission to get the same files from other sources.
15:00<Skasi>however ;)
15:01<Eddi|zuHause2>Skasi: look into the data dir, the dos files are called like "TRG1.grf" and the windows files are called "TRG1R.grf"
15:01<Eddi|zuHause2>windows newgrfs typically end with a "w"
15:03<dih>are the windows grf's not lowercase?
15:04<Skasi>Oh, so I am using a dosversion. The grfs are named like "OpenGFX_-_newlandscape_v0.3.grf" :)
15:05<Alberth>dih: at a case-insensitive file system?
15:05<Skasi>hmm.. "harbourw_456.grf" does have a W and is actually the only grf with a grey color instead of a brown one..
15:06<Ammlller>that GRF is obsolete anyway :-)
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15:06<Eddi|zuHause2>whatever you have, it's probably the wrong one ;)
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15:07<Skasi>hum.. it's from the coop-grf-pack and for other players they seem to work
15:08<Eddi|zuHause2>the coop grf pack is probably only for the windows grfs
15:08-!-lnxbil [] has joined #openttd
15:08<Eddi|zuHause2>as you cannot mix dos and windows grfs for online play anyway
15:09<lnxbil>Hi all, I'm using MacOS Leopard and get a white screen after starting 0.6.0, the old version 0.5.3 works out-of-the-box. I delete all files in ~/Documents/OpenTTD but it doesn't work. Any ideas?
15:09<lnxbil>I also reinstalled all necessary files from the CD
15:11<@Rubidium>Bjarni: ^^
15:11<Skasi>is there a way I can change my dos to windows-grfs? ^^°
15:12<ln>you have a patient.
15:12<@Bjarni>rtfm :P
15:12<@Belugas>you can exchange them at the store if you have the invoice, and if they have the windows version on sdtock :P
15:12<dih>Alberth: means the fs does not differentiate between filenames, does nor mean the files are always lowercase...
15:13<@Bjarni>white screen
15:13<@Bjarni>that's a new one
15:13<Skasi>so there's no way? ;)
15:13<lnxbil>@Bjarni: I have also an error in the console if I start the file in MacOS/OpenTTD in the package
15:13<@Belugas>maybe buy it on ebay
15:13<@Bjarni>what error?
15:14<lnxbil>openttd[4336] <Error>: CGBitmapContextCreate: unsupported parameter combination: 8 integer bits/component; 8 bits/pixel; 0-component colorspace; kCGImageAlphaNoneSkipFirst; 2560 bytes/row.
15:14<@Bjarni>it might help to know what it complains about :)
15:14<@Rubidium>Skasi: you can might be able to change the newgrfs from dos to windows and back with grfcodec, but it might also not work
15:14<@Bjarni>this is 0.6.0 from sourceforge, right?
15:14<@Rubidium>Skasi: changing ttd dos grfs to ttd windows grfs could also work, but OpenTTD will complain
15:15<lnxbil>Bjarni: Yes, downloaded a few minutes ago
15:15<lnxbil>I also tried to set my color depth to 256, but I can't change it in leopard, only 65536 and 16,7mil - both doesn't work
15:16<Ammlller>if you use original dos GRF, does that mean, you also need dos NewGRFs?
15:16<lnxbil>The old 0.5.3 doesn't produce the "unsupported parameter" error
15:16<@Bjarni>0.6.0 shouldn't do that either
15:17<@peter1138>Ammlller, yes... good for MP isn't it?
15:17<lnxbil>I checked the md5 of my download and it's the same as stated on the website
15:17<Ammlller>peter1138: thats why I ask :-)
15:19<Ammlller>I thought, ottd don't care about that
15:22<Skasi>weeeeeee it works! :D
15:23*dih pats Skasi on the head
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15:25<Skasi>but now there is ugly asphalt instead of a nicelooking brown.. station
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15:27<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12773 /trunk/src/gfx.cpp: -Codechange: replace some magic numbers with enums.
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15:32<@orudge>Belugas left us :(
15:32<@orudge>what a shame.
15:32<@Belugas>he did??
15:33<dih>you could do that on the 1st April
15:33<dih>but today?
15:34<dih>orudge: bad joke
15:34<dih>baaaad orudge
15:34<dih>go to your basket
15:34-!-mode/#openttd [-v orudge] by Rubidium
15:36*dih shells ooo4tom
15:36<dih>does not really make a bunch of sense - but hey
15:36<dih>who cares
15:37<Eddi|zuHause2>i care!
15:39<dih>be like that
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15:55<CIA-3>OpenTTD: richk * r12774 /branches/NewGRF_ports/ (120 files in 15 dirs): [NewGRF_ports] -Sync: with trunk r12742:12772.
15:55-!-mode/#openttd [+v orudge] by ChanServ
15:55<@orudge>dih: by "us", I did of course mean #tycoon :p
15:56<Ammlller>#openttd is a subchannel of #tycoon, so he is still around :-)
15:57<SpComb>at what point does OpenTTD write out the openttd.cfg for the first time?
15:57<SpComb>after you quit it the first time?
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15:58<@Rubidium>something like that yeah
15:59<ooo4tom>evening all !!
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16:09<dih>orudge: shame on you
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16:10<@peter1138>what's orudge done?
16:12<Eddi|zuHause2>bad things
16:12<Eddi|zuHause2>where the heck is .ua?
16:12<ooo4tom>care to share these bad things
16:13<SmatZ> maybe?
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16:13<dih>they have been shared once too often ^^
16:13<Eddi|zuHause2>no, i don't care!
16:22<@peter1138>ah... rearranging the forums would be silly
16:22<@peter1138>i'd have to relearn where to scroll to :o
16:24*glx uses
16:25<ln>is someone strongly against having a separate icon for tram stops on the station signs?
16:27<ooo4tom>i agree with peter, i don't like major change ;)
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16:43<ln>Bjarni: are you strongly against having a separate icon for tram stops on the station signs?
16:43<hylje>strongly for
16:44<@Bjarni>now what kind of question is that?
16:44<Eddi|zuHause2>"don't ask, do"
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16:45<@Bjarni>if you answer my question then I will answer yours
16:46<Eddi|zuHause2>"you me yours i show you mine"?
16:48<@Bjarni>I would never say that to ln
16:48*orudge shows Bjarni his
16:48<Eddi|zuHause2>but you say "mine is bigger than yours" to me?!?
16:49<@Bjarni>I can't recall saying that
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16:49<@Bjarni>but since it's the truth I guess it could have happened
16:51<Eddi|zuHause2>[Do Apr 17 2008] [23:56:15] <Bjarni> you mean to claim that your device is bigger than mine?
16:51<Eddi|zuHause2>that is less than 24 hours ago
16:51<@Bjarni>oh that
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16:51<@Bjarni>I'm asking if you made that claim
16:51<@Bjarni>I didn't say it
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16:52<@Bjarni>you did
16:52<Eddi|zuHause2>well, close enough ;)
16:52<Eddi|zuHause2>i did not use that formulation
16:52<@Bjarni>no that's why I asked you to clarify
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17:14<dragonhorseboy>just trying to understand the purpose of it but why is there 'enable relastic accerlation' in the patch options?
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17:14<@peter1138>so that you can enable or disable it
17:14<@peter1138>'realistic' is a bit of a misnomer of course
17:14<dragonhorseboy>well but it seem pointless for trains/rvs unless you're doing a super-flat map to me ... or I must be missing something :p
17:15<@peter1138>it affects acceleration, curve handling, and slopes
17:15<dragonhorseboy>(re fast trains doing only 30kmph up about any slopes even bridges)
17:15<@peter1138>and station entering
17:15<@peter1138>well that only happens when it's off
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17:20<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12775 /branches/NewGRF_ports/ ( readme.txt): [NewGRF_ports] -Fix: small missync.
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17:21<CIA-3>OpenTTD: egladil * r12776 /trunk/src/video/cocoa/ -Fix: [OSX] In some rare cases when using an uncalibrated monitor the system colour space could not be retrieved. Show an error when this happens instead of just trying an assertion.
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17:22<Jango>is there a bug on the website?
17:22-!-Digitalfox_ [] has quit []
17:22<Jango>my rss feed tells me there's an article about Server downtime
17:22<Jango>but it hasn't actually appeared on the news page on the website
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17:22<@Rubidium>stupid caches :(
17:23<Jango>php cache?
17:23<Jango>it's not browser cache
17:24<Jango>i can see it now :)
17:24<@Rubidium>smarty cache I fear
17:24<@Rubidium>got no idea how to properly fix it though :(
17:24<Jango>or, not so smarty i think
17:24<Jango>who wrote it, truelight?
17:24<Jango>(is he now truebrain?)
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17:32<GT>Just a question, now the 060 is beta, I've been following the discussions for new features to be implemented.
17:32*Rubidium notices huge lag somewhere ;)
17:32<GT>But I did not see anything about 32bpp. So, does anyone have an idea what is going to happen in that area
17:33<Eddi|zuHause2>32bpp is finished, only thing lacking is graphics
17:33*dragonhorseboy had only been busy looking at the 8bpp thread alone
17:33<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r12777 /trunk/src/ (network/core/packet.cpp stdafx.h strgen/strgen.cpp): -Codechange: rename fatal() and error() in strgen, so it can always have the NORETURN attribute
17:34<Eddi|zuHause2>and all this mega-zoom and rescaling people have been talking about are pure wishes, nothing of that is likely to happen
17:34<GT>Why not?
17:34<@Rubidium>because that breaks current savegames
17:35<@Rubidium>or complicates the code by a factor <way too much>
17:35<GT>The megazoom isn't breaking savegames afaik
17:35<egladil>actualy, <way to much>^2
17:36<hylje>what rescaling? making stuff hueg?
17:36<@Rubidium>GT: so you want to see vehicles jumping 16 pixels at a time?
17:36<@Rubidium>like 16 pixels every .5 seconds
17:37<@Rubidium>that'll make the game feel *SOOO* much better; huge and seemingly sluggish
17:38<Eddi|zuHause2>hylje: like making vehicles significantly longer than they are wide
17:38<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r12778 /trunk/src/core/ (alloc_func.cpp alloc_func.hpp): -Codechange: add the NORETURN attribute to *allocError() functions
17:38<Eddi|zuHause2>aka "realistic"
17:39<hylje>i could bear making roads larger in proportion, but maybe not a general upscale
17:40<GT>I don't want to see vehicles jump, I wondered what the plans for 32bpp where.
17:40<Eddi|zuHause2>like i said, there are no plans
17:42<GT>And I don't know whether the extra zoom makes it more sluggish, the sprites are bigger, but there are less sprites on a screen.
17:42<Eddi|zuHause2>GT: the problem is not drawing speed
17:42<hylje>its the feel!
17:42<@peter1138>it's just that there are only 16 positions in a tile
17:42<@peter1138>this works okay at the normal size
17:42<Eddi|zuHause2>the problem is that vehicles jump
17:42<@peter1138>but zoomed in to four times ... is not good
17:42<Eddi|zuHause2>quantum vehicles
17:43<hylje>get onto both lanes
17:43<GT>Right, see what you mean, the ' smoothness' of the movements
17:48<GT>And that won't be easy to change I guess
17:49<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12779 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: remove a few constants from openttd.h.
17:51<GT>Thanks for the remarks, I think I've learned more of the dev's point of view in 10 minutes, than I did from putting patches on the forums for half a year.
17:52<Eddi|zuHause2>mind you, i'm not actually a dev ;)
17:52<Eddi|zuHause2>but i think i have a pretty good overview ;)
17:53<ln>i think overview is not the word you're looking for, but dunno.
17:53<hylje>nitpicker and channel troll
17:53<GT>Well, neither am I, but Peter, Egladil and Rubidium are, if I remember correct
17:54<Eddi|zuHause2>i might be missing the right word, as i am talking in a foreign language :p
17:54<GT>(referring to developer, not nitpicker and channel troll)
17:55<hylje>but to misunderstand is fun
17:56<GT>Well, at least I think I know what you meant (thought Eglish is not my native language either)
17:57<Eddi|zuHause2>err... the smilie ':p' is there for a reason ;)
17:57<ln>native englishmen and scots, can "overview" be used like it was used above? "someone has a good overview"?
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17:58<ln>(i'm interested to know, i'm not trying to evaluate Eddi's vocabulary)
17:59<GT>i'm not interested to know, i'm just trying to evaluate Eddi's vocabulary
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18:03<GT>So what would you advise me to do with the extra zoom patch
18:04<Eddi|zuHause2>personally, i'd like a x2 zoom, if you can choose to zoom interface (windows, fonts, buttons) and game views separately
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18:05<GT>Apart from the managers faces (special request of Ben Robbins) there's no extra zoom in the GUI
18:05<Eddi|zuHause2>then formulate this as a special request of me: have a GUI zoom (independent from game zoom)
18:06<Eddi|zuHause2>but i don't think any zoom beyond x2 is practical at this point
18:06<Ammller>Hmm, patcher here? :-)
18:07<Ammller>would be happy to have that patch with current trunk:
18:07<dragonhorseboy>this is just me but if I want more details I just load MSTS :p
18:09<dragonhorseboy> mean...cooperation mode is kinda coming back to openttd finally? (ever since the mini-in's)
18:09<Eddi|zuHause2>Ammller: i have my doubts that this is ever going to get in
18:09<Ammller>yeah, I believe you
18:10<Ammller>but I would like to have it ready for wwottdgd/2
18:10<dih>whenever that may be :-P
18:10<Eddi|zuHause2>not ^2?
18:10<Ammller>it should be at least a yearly event
18:10<dragonhorseboy>ammller...just for the note I remember hosting the last mini-in version online three times.... too much fun sending my trains down someone else's own rails *whistles*
18:10<Ammller>so we have time until october :-)
18:11<dih>then we still have a few months time :-D
18:11<dragonhorseboy>thats why I kinda kept wishing someone would finally decide to bring it back :S heh
18:11<dih>we managed to get the first one set up in 2 - 3 weeks
18:11<Eddi|zuHause2>ln: anyway, "overview" is pretty much an exact translation of "Überblick", so i just assumed the same construction around it as in german
18:11<dih>so lets start thinking about it in september :-D
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18:12<Ammller>dih: maybe a halfyearly event?
18:12<dih>hold your horses now will ya :-P
18:12<Ammller>and I guess, we won't have Truebrain back, so coding within 2 weeks isn't possible anymore :-)
18:13<dih>he made it pretty clear that he did not want to patch ottd
18:13<dragonhorseboy>hmm well ammller/dih either of you use freight rv's?
18:13<dragonhorseboy>road vehicles?
18:14<Ammller>what a question, everyone, who played ottd, did that once, I assume
18:14<dih>and i see no link to wwottdgd2
18:14<Ammller>he is talking about sharingtracks, I guess
18:15<dragonhorseboy>ammller..heh I've seen too many players who never even touch rvs at all (well I've noticed some servers that has generic/dutch trams loaded sometimes gets used tho)
18:15<dragonhorseboy>oh sorry
18:15<Eddi|zuHause2>dragonhorseboy: well, everybody who tries very soon gets to the limits of road vehicles
18:15<dih>rv's suck most of the time
18:16<dragonhorseboy>eddi...heh well you can't blame for not wanting to use a $90K rail locomotive on whats just a 64tonnes coal mine can you? :p
18:17<dragonhorseboy>which of I always thought that the inflatation always needs some fixing for default vehicles...
18:17<Eddi|zuHause2>no, i have batches of coal mines, and a collecting station near the main line
18:18<dragonhorseboy>eg it doesn't make sense for a silly truck to cost $120K and $30+/year only to carry 28 tonnes of grain or something late in the game :/
18:18<dragonhorseboy>but thats what it appeared like
18:18<Eddi|zuHause2>like this:,%201.%20Jul%201981.png
18:18<dragonhorseboy>ammller heh yeah I did see the screenshots on that one before...interesting idea
18:19<Ammller>Eddi|zuHause2: YAPP?
18:19<dragonhorseboy>ammller either way if you were to use some rv' often would you probably had liked to see newer ones coming out? (surely it can -not- be yearly or we'll run out of ids heh)
18:19<Eddi|zuHause2>err... yes
18:19<Ammller>why do you signal the station?
18:20<Eddi|zuHause2>old yapp
18:20<Ammller>ok :-)
18:20<Eddi|zuHause2>i have a shot of that same station before yapp
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18:21<Eddi|zuHause2>might be this one:,%2029.%20Dez%201955.png
18:21<Ammller>dragonhorseboy: 4LV is quite ok with that
18:22<Eddi|zuHause2>i wasn't sure, i have two shots, but only uploaded one
18:22<dragonhorseboy>well I was thinking 10-15 years myself but then I have no real idea :p
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18:22<Eddi|zuHause2>long vehicles is the ugliest thing i have come across
18:23<dragonhorseboy>eddi well its the only good one you can get if you want freight over road (eg 30+ tonnes of grain, not just a silly 10-16 tonnes as most other grfs have last I recall)
18:23<dragonhorseboy>but yeah..some of the longer lengths can look weird with curves :/
18:24<Ammller>Eddi|zuHause2: thats also true
18:24<Eddi|zuHause2>that game was most likely yapp version 3
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18:25<Eddi|zuHause2>at least i have that file lying around
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18:25<dragonhorseboy>the reason I asked re years is because I'm just trying to decide how to use different tractors without filling the whole id list
18:25<@peter1138>LV4 also runs out of freight vehicles in later years
18:25<Ammller>dragonhorseboy: you can use different GRFs
18:26<dragonhorseboy>ammller what you mean?
18:26<Ammller>it will be supported by peter1138's engine_pool patch
18:26<Eddi|zuHause2>dragonhorseboy: engine pools, and you won't ever run out of IDs
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18:26<dragonhorseboy>hmm well this planned grf is going be for ttdp too so :p
18:27<dragonhorseboy>sorry heh ;)
18:27<Eddi|zuHause2>well, 640k ought to be enough for anyone :p
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18:27<@peter1138>make a cut down grf for ttdp
18:27<Ammller>dragonhorseboy: do you know foobars RV proposal?
18:27<@peter1138>then make a grf with everything you ever wanted ;)
18:27<Eddi|zuHause2>"perfection is not when you have nothing left to add, but when you have nothing left to leave out"
18:27<dragonhorseboy>peter...hmm...if the coder I find can actually handle making two different versions..maybe
18:28<dragonhorseboy>either way supper's ready so be back in a while ;P
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18:30<Ammller>dragonhorseboy: you could also make timeframe grfs
18:30<Ammller>which overlap a little bit
18:31<Ammller>well, but I would begin with one GRF :-)
18:31<@peter1138>not good for MP
18:31<Ammller>hmm, true
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18:35<GT>Eddi, which parts of the GUI would you like to see zoomed in?
18:35<GT>like bigger toolbars etc?
18:36<Eddi|zuHause2>toolbars, text, buttons
18:36<Eddi|zuHause2>possibly mouse cursor
18:37<GT>I did see a tar with a bigger mouse pointer, but that did not look nice imo
18:39<Eddi|zuHause2>well, the aim is to make stuff more visible on high resolutions
18:39<Eddi|zuHause2>by means other than moving closer to the screen :p
18:39<GT>OK, point taken, on higher resolutions that might work out nice
18:43<GT>It's just that I spent a lot of time in improving the zoomed in patch, and just finding out that not much graphics are created for it, made me a little frustrated, so that's why I decided to take a look around here. I'm in a dilemma: continue working on the zoomed in patched, or try to create a nice NoAI
18:45<Eddi|zuHause2>afaik the priority is to get a free set of regular graphics first
18:46<GT>Yeah, but it looks like 8bpp is getting a lot more attention in that effort than 32bpp
18:47<dragonhorseboy>hmm that wiki link seem interesting but I don't even plan on much of any trams and only few type of buses so I guess its a bit reducency :p
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18:47<dragonhorseboy>to our own ideas I guess ;)
18:48<GT>Been away for a smoke, could you repeat the wiki link
18:48<Eddi|zuHause2>dragonhorseboy: the point is that someone elses bus or tram set can be used with your set, if you didn't use trams and busses
18:49<Eddi|zuHause2>as long as you stick to that scheme
18:50<Ammller>you should give your "favorite" RVs the IDs, which are meant for tha type
18:50<dragonhorseboy>eddi...who else is creating australia-specific vehicles yet? ;)
18:50<Ammller>so your grf is still useable also with trams or other sets
18:50<Eddi|zuHause2>a) "yet", and b) why restrict it on people interested in australia?
18:52<Ammller>i.e. 4lv uses almost all VehIDs, but its still useable if you don't need trucks with a tramset
18:53*peter1138 wants zoom to work with 8bpp
18:53<@peter1138>so i can see stuff when i have a bad eye day, heh
18:54<Ammller>well, it would also help to check alignments
18:56<GT>It does, it does not work for 32bpp
18:56<GT>Though it has some nasty edges for 8bpp
18:57<dragonhorseboy>hm well ammller/eddi question one thought I had been thinking about for some time....
18:57<SmatZ>peter1138: you may try if it compiles...
18:58<dragonhorseboy>offer grf option to enable/disable a small roadtrain trucking group replacing maglev (in construction toolbar especially)? it'll have its own different incompactible road surface but at least adding multiply trailers probably would be easier
18:59<dragonhorseboy>[well...till there's another way to do it in future heh]
18:59<dragonhorseboy>its just a random thought I had some time ago
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19:00<Eddi|zuHause2>you can just replace rail graphics with road graphics, just you will get problems with crossings and stuff
19:00<Eddi|zuHause2>anything more than that would be very problematic at best
19:00<dragonhorseboy>true...maybe for as long as till finally you can just build a road depot and buy a truck with your own number of trailers on it :p
19:01<dragonhorseboy>I don't think anyone would bother trying send one 16-trailers truck through a town so I guess a decidated+incompactible road surface doesn't sound too bad
19:02<dragonhorseboy>well...I guess north america also have their own B-trains too
19:02<Eddi|zuHause2>it would still be a railtype for all functionality and GUI purposes
19:02<Eddi|zuHause2>it would just look like road
19:02<Eddi|zuHause2>it will need signals and switches
19:02<dragonhorseboy>yeah I wouldn't want to think how "rail signals on a road surface" is going to look like meh :p
19:03<@peter1138>just use a very long articulated road vehicle
19:03<dragonhorseboy>peter...yeah only question is do you have to fill many ids to offer different lengths or ?
19:03<Eddi|zuHause2>you could abuse the refit system to allow some predefined amount of trailers
19:03<GT>Thanks SmatZ, for the interesting link, I'll give it a try, if it doesn't compile anymore, we'll learn it some manners.
19:03<dragonhorseboy>eddi...hmmm...I'll have to look into that thought, thanks
19:04<Ammller>SmatZ: In which kind is that patch different to the one in the Graphics Forums
19:05<SmatZ>Ammller: I don't know the patch in the Graphics Forums
19:05<SmatZ>this one is just a quick fix, so
19:06<dragonhorseboy>eddi..I was thinking like eg each trailer is hm say 18 cattles ... so ok the player can pick to buy the tractor with four (72 heads) or sixteen (128 heads) trailers and well you get the drift
19:06<dragonhorseboy>thanks...never thought of the refit option before
19:06<Eddi|zuHause2>+ ZOOM_LVL_IN_2X = -1,
19:06<Eddi|zuHause2>+ ZOOM_LVL_START = ZOOM_LVL_IN_2X,
19:06<dragonhorseboy>might have to test it with a dummy grf ;p
19:06<Eddi|zuHause2>i'd reverse these two lines
19:06<GT>At least it does have more zoom out levels, but that won't help Eddi's eyes
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19:07<Eddi|zuHause2>i.e. start with start
19:07<GT>but the extra zoom level in might
19:07<SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause2: yeah, it is a really ugly patch
19:07<Ammller>a zoomable map would also be nice
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19:08<GT>minimap ?
19:08<Ammller>yeah, minimap, I meant
19:08<Eddi|zuHause2>minimap zoom is a totally different project...
19:09<GT>Agreed, different project, but nice indeed
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19:09<Ammller>sounds like it's worked on :-)
19:09<GT>Not that I know of
19:09<GT>But don't tempt me
19:09<Eddi|zuHause2>i have seen talking about it in ancient times
19:10<Ammller>currently is one pixel per tile, I guess?
19:10<Eddi|zuHause2>2x1 or something
19:11<Eddi|zuHause2>2 wide, 1 high
19:11<dih>that sounds odd
19:11<dih>that would make a strange mini map size
19:12<Ammller>and it isn't
19:13<GT>Didn't look in the code, but my guess it's 1px per tile as Ammller supposed
19:13<Eddi|zuHause2>1x1 is not possible
19:13<Eddi|zuHause2>because you have 1 tile in the first row
19:13<Eddi|zuHause2>2 tiles in the second row
19:14<Eddi|zuHause2>the 1st row must be centered in the 2nd row
19:14<Eddi|zuHause2>you cannot center between 2 pixels
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19:14<Eddi|zuHause2>2x1 means, on each row, you can attach 1 pixel on the left, and 1 pixel on the right
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19:15<Eddi|zuHause2>so you get a symmetric triangle
19:15<Ammller>oh, ok
19:15<Eddi|zuHause2>you get 1 tile more per row
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19:17<Eddi|zuHause2>but i think it's even more than that
19:17<Eddi|zuHause2>or 4x1
19:17<Ammller>because of the view
19:17<Eddi|zuHause2>i'm pretty sure now it's 4x1
19:18<Eddi|zuHause2>1 pixel down, 2 to the side, makes it the same projection as the main view
19:20<GT>Seems to make sense, though a real top view ( so 1x1 ) would be nice too for the minimap too, I guess
19:21<Eddi|zuHause2>like i said, 1x1 is not possible (unless you rotate the map to have a rectangle)
19:22<GT>Correct, 2x1 is the minimum I think
19:23<Ammller>just made screen and checked in GIMP
19:23<Ammller>its 2x1
19:24<GT>Rotating the view would be really ununderstandable, 2x1 would make sense
19:25<Ammller>its not :-)
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19:25<Ammller>not 2x1
19:25<Sacro>oh noes
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19:27<Ammller>there you see a area with bought land
19:27<Eddi|zuHause2>it's 4x1
19:28<Eddi|zuHause2>1 pixels unmarked, 2 pixels marked, 1 pixel unmarked
19:29<Lakie>Belugas. so is that icon ok?
19:29<Lakie>Or do I need to remake it to try and fix your issues with it?
19:30<Sacro>hey Lakie! :D
19:30*Sacro is trying to beat your PGR4 scores
19:30<Lakie>Sacro: ever tried playing "Knights of Cydonia" on hard using a controller?
19:30<Lakie>Should be easy
19:30<Lakie>I was quite bad at PGR4
19:32<GT>It's 4x1 allright, but would't 2x1 be nicer, to match the viewport view?
19:32<Eddi|zuHause2>it does match the viewport view at 4x1
19:32<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12780 /trunk/src/video/null_v.cpp: -Fix: the null blitter did segfault.
19:32<GT>The viewport view is 2x1
19:33<Eddi|zuHause2>no, tiles "overlap" in the viewport
19:33<Eddi|zuHause2>the tile "above" the tile (corner-wise) is actually 2 rows above
19:33<Eddi|zuHause2>1 row is over the edge
19:34<Eddi|zuHause2>so viewport would be equivalent to 4x2 with overlapping
19:34<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12781 /branches/noai/ (131 files in 16 dirs): [NoAI] -Sync: with trunk r12711:12780.
19:37<GT>You did lose me there, if I'm moving one tile up, isn't that equal to moving in x -1, and in y -1 in world coordinates?
19:38<Lakie>Oh, Sacro, there is a cap on some levels on how much 'K' you can earn, because I hit it once or twice to help people playing on harder settings get better scores, lol.
19:38<GT>that is y+1
19:38<Lakie>Rubidium: does the noAI branch support railroads yet?
19:39<Eddi|zuHause2>"up" in screen coordinates is x-2 and y-2
19:39<Eddi|zuHause2>err, no
19:39<Eddi|zuHause2>x-1,y-1 is right
19:39<@Rubidium>Lakie: nope
19:39<Eddi|zuHause2>but that is twice -1
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19:39<Eddi|zuHause2>so two rows
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19:40<Eddi|zuHause2>scroll to the very top of the map
19:40<Eddi|zuHause2>the first row has 1 tile
19:40<Eddi|zuHause2>the second row has 2 tiles
19:41<Eddi|zuHause2>the third row has 3 tiles
19:41<Eddi|zuHause2>and so on
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19:42<Eddi|zuHause2>now draw a (screen-)rectangle around each tile, you will notice that they overlap, and that for one tile, the 4 neighbouring rectangles meet exactly in the middle
19:42<GT>first row: coords 0,0 (world)
19:43<Eddi|zuHause2>second row: 1,0; 0,1 (x+y=1)
19:43<Lakie>I guess that explains why I couldn't find any AIRail then. :(
19:43<Eddi|zuHause2>third row: 2,0; 1,1; 0,2 (x+y=2)
19:43-!-Wolf01|AWAY is now known as Wolf01
19:44<Lakie>I suppose due to signalling, and the track directions its more complex to workout how to make a clean api for it. :/
19:44<Eddi|zuHause2>a "row" in this sense is a group of tiles where the tile centers are on the same horizontal line
19:47<Sacro>Lakie: wtf? that's insane
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19:48<GT>Eddi, you're completely right, to reach the same x coordinate, you would have to move 2 rows. So 4:1 for the minimap would match the normal view indeed
19:48<Eddi|zuHause2>of course i'm right, there was never any doubt to that :p
19:48*Lakie assumes Sacro is doing the hard campaign
19:49<GT>I just realized that :-)
19:49*Lakie goes to do the easy campaign for the achievement
19:50<Eddi|zuHause2>nice nutshell, yours?
19:53<Sacro>you cannot handbrake drift a bentley continental
19:53<Sacro>Lakie: no, PGR4
19:54<Lakie>Oh, hehe
19:54<Lakie>Yeah, I thouht it sucked but I reliese why its there
19:55<Lakie>After all you hardly want to get beaten in score by someone who only did steel
19:55<Lakie>if you did gold
19:55<Lakie>When you race on PGR4 you have platium, gold, silver, brownse and steel,
19:56<Sacro>ah yes
19:56<Lakie>If you say beat platium, you would expect to be ranked higher than someone who beat steel correct?
19:56<Lakie>Based of K's that isn't always possible...
19:56<Lakie>Drifting with cars is like trying to drift withe brick and no wheels
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19:57<Lakie>now bikes on the other hand, the sure can go round corners
19:58<Sacro>i hate the bikes
19:58<Sacro>they are so bad to ride
19:59<Sacro>too laggy
19:59<Sacro>i like my Sierra
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20:00<Eddi|zuHause2>bah, i hate when kwin crashes
20:01<Eddi|zuHause2>the windows are all out of place afterwards
20:01<Lakie>Hehe, I prefer the bikes in PGR4
20:02<Lakie>If a map had corners, I could beat cars (although with lots of straights it became a pain).
20:03<Sacro>and i just lost the game D: damn lolman
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20:03<Eddi|zuHause2>that is entirely your own fault :p
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20:06*Lakie found that trying to get the beat hard using a controller only achievement is near damn impossible once you get to 3 & 7sw
20:07<Sacro>the tesla roadster is quite nice
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20:10<Eddi|zuHause2>i have a feeling the conversation is slightly off topic
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20:11<Lakie>Heh, Easy is very simple now too, can't believe I struggled with it before. -_-
20:11<Lakie>Yeah, sorry, Eddi.
20:13<Sacro>sorry Eddi
20:13<Sacro>i'm exiled from #tycoon, but #sacro is available!
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20:42<perkrith>nick rebry
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23:16<@Belugas>THAT is a VERY enooying user
23:17<@Belugas>and THIS is a very tired belugas
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23:47<De_Ghosty>YOu ARE WRONG
23:48<De_Ghosty>WHAT YOu MEAn i CAN"T put the station on the other side of map
23:52<De_Ghosty>max width is only 1200 pixel?
---Logclosed Sat Apr 19 00:00:22 2008