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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-04-20

---Logopened Sun Apr 20 00:00:00 2008
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01:15<Eddi|zuHause2># This is our decision, to live fast and die young.
01:15<Eddi|zuHause2># We've got the vision, now let's have some fun.
01:15<Eddi|zuHause2># Yeah, it's overwhelming, but what else can we do.
01:15<Eddi|zuHause2># Get jobs in offices, and wake up for the morning commute.
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04:23<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12800 /trunk/src/ (13 files): -Codechange: move the animated tile related functions out of texteff.cpp (it isn't a text effect after all). Also remove a few more functions from functions.
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04:33<yorick>station animation *O*!
04:35<Roujin>it says *some* support
04:36<Roujin>i wonder if he is just belittling his work with this phrase or it's not *full* support yet
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04:43<@peter1138>just a disclaimer
04:43<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12801 /trunk/src/ (7 files): -Codechange: remove the dependency of function.h in town_map.h
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04:50<Roujin>peter1138: so it means like "it probably works now, but if something doesn't, you can't sue me"?
04:50<@peter1138>yeah :)
04:51<yorick>get me some pbs now :)
04:51<@peter1138>new yapp!
04:51<@peter1138>only problem is it's now 200KB :o
04:52<yorick>he should split it
04:52<@peter1138>well his concern is to make it work
04:52<yorick>your concern is to include it
04:53<yorick>and he should stop breaking my savegames :(
04:55<Roujin>hmm.. this is strange..
04:55<Roujin>does clean r12800 compile?
04:55<@peter1138>that's why he gives major numbers
04:56<Gekz>svn r broke!
04:56<yorick>trunk fails!
04:56<Roujin>ah okay, no wonder patched r12800 does not compile then ^^
04:56<yorick>some link errors
04:57<@peter1138>just add animated_tile.cpp to source.list
04:57<yorick>why haven't you?
04:57<Roujin>i was getting sceptical when it reported an error in a file the patch didn't touch ^^
04:57<@peter1138>because i haven't
04:58<Roujin>rubidium probably did change it in his build but forgot adding it to the submit
04:58<yorick>it has to recompile for one file :(
05:01<Roujin>you could have checked out 12799 instead :P
05:03<Trond>I buildt r12799 just to check out the ISR station animation :) Really nice! Thanks peter1138!!
05:04<@peter1138>no, thank mart3p for coding ISR
05:04<@peter1138>he had way more work than me ;)
05:04<Trond>I do that almost daily :P
05:05<Trond>but he couldnt put the support for it to trunk, so you need a thanks too :)
05:08<Roujin>i updated daylength
05:08<Trond>Thanks a lot, I managed to update it myself too, but then the clock is gone, so thats great!
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05:09<BiO-HaZaRd>hi all :P
05:09<Roujin>i managed to keep the clock ;)
05:10<Gekz>whats ISR?
05:10<Roujin>stuff moved to statusbar_gui.cpp
05:10<Roujin>Gekz: industrial stations renewal
05:10<Trond>I couldnt figure it out =)
05:10<Roujin>it's a sweet newgrf
05:10<Trond>no knowledge about c++ doesnt help, thats for sure
05:10<Roujin>featuring animated stations
05:11<Trond>I dare say its the best stationset out there
05:11<@peter1138>there aren't that many freight station sets
05:11<Roujin>well it is the newest one
05:11<Trond>true peter
05:11<Roujin>older sets were made in a time where not all features were available that are available now
05:11<@peter1138>Born_Acorn's needs updating
05:12<Trond>and this is the only one thats actively progressing at the time I think...
05:12<@peter1138>Born_Acorn, Newfreightstationupdate!
05:12<Gekz>I already used ISR
05:12<Gekz>I use 0.6.0
05:12<Roujin>update to newest trunk and you'll notice a slightly change ;)
05:13<Trond>well, seeing the cranes move, doors going up and down sure make it worth updating to trunk
05:13<Gekz>you updated daylength to it
05:13<Gekz>therefore I will
05:13<Gekz>daylength is the only patch I need
05:14<Trond>thats the bad thing about that patch... its very hard to play a game without daylenght patch when you're used to play with it...
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05:14<BiO-HaZaRd>How can i join a game that's going to last more than a week?
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05:15<Gekz>BiO-HaZaRd: start one
05:16<Alberth>BiO-HaZaRd: Take a week holiday
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05:19<BiO-HaZaRd>but one that i'm for sure that at least somebody else is still going to be playing that long
05:19<BiO-HaZaRd>do players gather for this reason?
05:21<Gekz>openttd doesnt usually last that long >_>
05:21<BiO-HaZaRd>why is that?
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05:25<yorick>[11:09] <Roujin> i managed to keep the clock ;) <-- what clock?
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05:26<Roujin>this one: <Trond> Thanks a lot, I managed to update it myself too, but then the clock is gone, so thats great!
05:27<Roujin>daylength patch features a clock in the lower left if the daylength setting is >14
05:27<Roujin>besides the date
05:32<@peter1138>freeciv is odd
05:32<@peter1138>(and there are currently only 4 servers showing)
05:32<@peter1138>but the minimap... left click does nothing, right click scrolls :o
05:32<yorick>thanks for saying freeciv :)
05:33<yorick>I googled it :)
05:33<@peter1138>not heard of it before?
05:34<yorick>12799 seems to be the generic update-patches-to revision :p
05:34<@peter1138>and it's only eyecandy ;)
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05:37<@peter1138>freeciv really could do with ottd's map panning control :o
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05:38<Roujin>i found a small glitch for daylength settings between 15 and 30
05:38<Roujin>time was not redrawn properly
05:38<Wolf01>daylength is far from perfect
05:39<Trond>I have noticed that Roujin, can you fix it?
05:39<Gekz>what do I have to do to make the current trunk compile
05:39<Trond>bug a dev to fix it? ^^
05:39<Roujin>yes, i have fixed it
05:40<Roujin>uploading updated .diff shortly
05:40<Roujin>Gekz: [10:57] <@peter1138> just add animated_tile.cpp to source.list
05:40<Trond>nice Roujin! Thanks again :)
05:40<Wolf01>I abandoned that patch when I started to find weird bugs and things which had different behaviors when at longer day length
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05:40<Roujin>but, seriously, what is the max value for daylength set to? oO
05:41<Roujin>real time? oO
05:41<Trond>255 I believe
05:41<Wolf01>realtime would be cool :)
05:41<Roujin>oh yes its 255
05:41<Roujin>that's about 2 minutes / second
05:41<Roujin>120x real time
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05:42<Trond>I usually play at 32, thats a good one for me
05:42<Gekz>we should totally make realtime
05:42<Gekz>but first we must make massive maps
05:43<Trond>I tried a game at 70, but it got a bit boring tbh
05:43<Gekz>2^20 * 2^20 square maps
05:43<yorick>but stations should take half-a-year to build at realtime :P
05:43<Gekz>oh dear, teh realism mods
05:43<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12802 /trunk/source.list: -Fix (r12800): do not commit from the src directory when you want to commit source.list too.
05:43<Gekz>imagine having that run for two years, to have a troll destroy it
05:43<yorick>finally fixed
05:44<yorick>saving would take 3 days
05:44<Gekz>no, I think something that would be quite playable would be a year per day
05:44<Trond>ahh... compile time :P
05:44<Gekz>starting at 1920
05:44<Gekz>thats a good two month game
05:44<Gekz>its like freeciv but less painful
05:44<Gekz>and faster :P
05:44<yorick>or some bug which requires you to run for 100 years to fix :p
05:45<@Bjarni>get real
05:45<@Bjarni>this is not a real time game
05:45<yorick>heh...I just updated the pbs patch 3 revisions up
05:45<Gekz>Bjarni: ever heard of a joke :P
05:45<@Bjarni>both good and bad
05:45<@Bjarni>guess which one is present in this channel right now
05:47<Roujin>Trond and others: uploaded the fixed .diff
05:47<Trond>omw ^^
05:47<yorick>downloaded it
05:47<Gekz>Broken savegame - Invalid chunk size
05:47<yorick>trying to combine with pbs
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05:49<Gekz>what caused savegames to not load in the new trunk?
05:49<yorick>is new paxdest also at r12799?
05:49<yorick>nothing should, Gekz
05:49<Gekz>then what went wrong
05:49<yorick>only savegames saved with a patch
05:50<Gekz>i'm using the same patch I did before
05:50<yorick>has been updated multiple times?
05:50<yorick>ask Roujin
05:50<yorick>and YAPP is known to break savegames :-p
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05:50<Roujin>Gekz: what exactly are you trying to load with what?
05:51<Trond>uhm... thats probably becoz this dl patch is something I updated earlier, and its not the same as the one nappe updated a while ago?
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05:51<Trond>just a wild guess
05:51<Gekz>Roujin: I'm trying to load a r12717 + daylength patched savegame in the latest revision with the patch
05:51<yorick>G:/BoTTD/BoTTD/msys/home/ottdsrc/trunk/src/order_cmd.cpp: In function `VehicleOrderID ProcessConditionalOrder(const Order*, const Vehicle*)':
05:51<yorick>G:/BoTTD/BoTTD/msys/home/ottdsrc/trunk/src/order_cmd.cpp:1594: warning: enumeral and non-enumeral type in conditional expression
05:52<yorick>yapp isn't compiling
05:52<Gekz>Daylength affects industry production rate
05:52<Gekz>Trond: that was your version wasnt it
05:52<Gekz>then what was that
05:52<Trond>that was nappe, and it broked my savegames so I updated the patch without that addition
05:53<Gekz>oh dear
05:53<Trond>so you probably have to ask Roujin to update the version from nappe too ^^
05:53<Gekz>Roujin: would you please update nappe's version?
05:54<Roujin>did he add something interesting?
05:54<Trond>no :P
05:54<Gekz>Daylength affects industry production rate
05:54<yorick>Roujin, could you update yapp to r12802?
05:54<yorick>yes, 3 revisions up, but I fail
05:55<Roujin>3 revs? lemme see..
05:56<Roujin>ah, it's probably the move from texteff.cpp to animated_tile.cpp
05:56<Trond>well, the dl patch works fine for me, so I'm happy. Thanks again Roujin!
05:56<yorick>...which gives a failure in player_cmd.cpp?
05:57<Gekz>Roujin: we shall donate to your paypal :P
05:57<Gekz>so whats this thing i'm meant to be seeing
05:58<Gekz>with ISR and animations
05:58<Trond>animated cranes for one
05:58<Trond>cranes animate when trains are loading/unloading
05:59<Gekz>I've been wanting that for ages!
05:59<Trond>yeh, it looks very nice!
05:59<yorick>the cranes on rails
05:59<Gekz>what else?
05:59<yorick>that's kinda it
05:59<Trond>some of the station buildings have animated doors too
06:00<yorick>but those need pbs
06:00<Trond>the isr storage type buildings
06:00<Gekz>lol ok
06:01<Gekz>so I need that patch updated so I can use my savegames lol
06:01<Trond>and conveyor belts too...
06:01<Trond>yeh... sorry about that, but I couldnt have my savegames broken :P
06:04<Roujin>well it integrates nicely with trunk, apart from the stuff that moved from main_gui to statusbar_gui, so i'll post an update of the version by nappe too
06:05<Roujin>just compiling and running a test now
06:06<Trond>wow, you're really the hero of the day!
06:06<Trond>atleast for me and Gekz ;)
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06:06<Gekz>very much sop
06:06<Gekz>Trond: what game speed do you usually play at?
06:06<Gekz>and map size lol
06:06<Roujin>the real problem is, i don't think i'll find a way to make one version able to load all of your savegames
06:07<Roujin>because makers of patches mostly use a system thats bound to break some time
06:07<Trond>daylenght 32 and 2048x2048 or 2048x256
06:07<Gekz>i do 4
06:07<Gekz>and 256 x 1024
06:08<Roujin>as soon as trunk bumps savegame version, either loading from trunk is broken, or loading from older version of the patch is broken
06:08<Trond>I like big maps with mucho industries and few towns
06:08<Gekz>I like small maps with few towns and few industries
06:08<Rubidium>Roujin: unless you prepared your patch for it
06:08<Gekz>I once played 128 x 128
06:08<Gekz>with 4 towns
06:08<Gekz>and 4 human players
06:08<Trond>yeh, thats why I hope dl someday will be in trunk, but I'm not holding my breath
06:08<Roujin>Rubidium: yes, that's why i start my patch at savegame version 200
06:08<Roujin>and if i have to bump, i have 201
06:09<Rubidium>MiniIN had a similar way of working
06:09<Trond>well... problem with that is stuff can happen like when gonozal bumped savegame to 99 and then decided he sholdnt bump that much and made it 90 in next version...
06:09<Gekz>wouldnt it be better to have savegame versions preceded with a letter?
06:10<Gekz>with o reserved for the official version?
06:10<Roujin>I wish every patch maker would do something like this..
06:10<Rubidium>only more a 10 revisions between trunk and MiniIN, so after 10 savegame bumps in trunk MiniIN savegames couldn't be loaded anymore, but that wasn't really a problem because downloading an intermediate binary would just solve it
06:10<Roujin>Gekz: letters are not really practical for mathematical operators, you know.. ;)
06:10<Rubidium>letters was space too
06:11<Gekz>Roujin: Hexadecimal then
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06:12<Trond>someone should make a patch so I could load any savegame an convert it to some higher/lower savegame version...
06:12<Trond>that could sortoff save some old savegames if it was possible :P
06:13<Gekz>Roujin: considering nappe added a feature, wouldnt that mean that his patch could load your patch but not vice versa?
06:14<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12803 /trunk/src/ (10 files): -Cleanup: rename SpecialVehicle to EffectVehicle to have a uniform naming of the thing instead of using both names for the same thing.
06:14<Trond>it didnt at the time nappe did it, and thats why I updated the older version at the time...
06:14<Roujin>Gekz: it should be able to, but because of the broken way of usage of the savegame version, it doesn't work
06:15<Gekz>bah, why is there a savegame version anyway
06:15<Roujin>to ENSURE backwards compatibility
06:15<Roujin>but if its used wrong, it breaks everything
06:15<Gekz>there should be an option to ignore it
06:15<Gekz>beacuse you're hardcore
06:16<Roujin>i'll explain it.. gimme some secs
06:17<Roujin>if you add a new option, you bump the savegame version (say to 94) and write in the code that this option only exists from version 94 onwards
06:17<Roujin>this way, the game will still be able to load from savegame version 93, because it knows "aha, this option did not exist back then, so i won't try to load its value"
06:18<Gekz>yes, I realise that
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06:19<Roujin>now when nappe added the new option, he didn't bump the version
06:19<Gekz>so he needs a smack
06:19<Roujin>that's why he broke loading of old games (Trond's issue)
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06:19<Patrick`_>but when multiple people make patches, the savegame version number tends to spider
06:19<Roujin>additionally there were now two versions around, having the same savegame version, but different stuff stored in a savegame
06:20<Trond>this is what happens when the pro's dont update their patches and let noobs like me do it ^^
06:20<@peter1138>the bane of patchers' lives is savegame bumps in trunk
06:20<Roujin>and the savegame version is basically the information for the game what is stored in a savegame, so i have no way of making a new version now that accepts saves from both of you
06:20<yorick>Roujin, the updated daylenght patch fails to load savegames with the version of 12800
06:20<Roujin>yes, that's the next issue (what peter says)
06:21<Roujin>and what yorick just experienced
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06:22<Ammler>someone knows that? dbg: [net] send failed with error 104
06:22<Rubidium>that means that send() returned error 104, which you can lookup
06:22<Trond>so wouldnt it be better not to have a savegame version in patches like this then?
06:22<Roujin>either it can load saves of current trunk now, OR saves of older versions of the patch
06:22<Ammler>in SRC?
06:23<Rubidium>Ammler: in your OSes includes
06:23<Roujin>the best way to do things (in my opinion) is set a new base version for your patch (say 200)
06:23<Roujin>if you update your patch (add a new patch option or remove something or whatever) you can do that in your own "domain" of savegame versions
06:24<Gekz>add more number
06:24<Gekz>preceed it with 1337! :P
06:24<Roujin>that's too high, i reckon it works only up to 255 or similar
06:25<Gekz>oh dear.
06:25<Roujin>because i tried starting with 1000 and that didn't work
06:25<Ammler>we have many desyncs in recent nightlies back
06:25<Patrick`_>it's over 9000!
06:25<Gekz>Roujin: pm me the link to the updated other patch if you finish it please, i'll be afk a bit
06:25<Roujin>will do
06:27<Roujin>now, i can't build in a sensible usage of savegame versions of the daylength patch, because that would totally break compatibility with previous versions of the patch. (it would reinstate compatibility with trunk though)
06:28*yorick prefers trunk
06:28<Trond>I think trunk would be the best tbh...
06:29<yorick>otherwise it will never be included
06:29<Roujin>oh this is not about including
06:29<yorick>ultimately, it is
06:29<Trond>coz that would make my new games with the new patch compatible with future updates to the patch...
06:29<Roujin>at the point it's included, it will most probably break compatibility with previous savegame versions again :D
06:30<Ammler>Roujin: can't you not just make a "secure" save, where all daylength things are trashed
06:30<@peter1138>why do people want new features in 0.6.1 :o
06:30<Ammler>and then you just need to reset them in a new version
06:30<yorick>just because the waiting is so long
06:30<yorick>0.4.8 included new features, didn't it?
06:31<st6>so is there a clearer maglev.grf?
06:31<yorick>0.6 is already outdated, it was before it was released
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06:32<yorick> <-- to trunk
06:34<Gekz>Roujin: make a legacy patch
06:34<Gekz>and a trunkable patch
06:34<Gekz>and recommend all new games are started with the trunkable patch
06:34<Gekz>and that people who want to complete their old saves with a new trunk use the legacy patch
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06:35<Ammler>well, you could include a console command "legacy_save" :-)
06:35<Ammler>that removes all daylength settings and save then
06:36<Ammler>and then you load it like you load now saves without daylenghts
06:36<Trond>wouldnt it be better to put patchsettings like that in the config file anyway?
06:36<yorick>that would require hacking into the save mechanism
06:37<Ammler>yorick, why?
06:38<Ammler>isn't there a command like "clear <var>" or something in c++
06:39<Ammler>if you would do that BEFORE save, the save should be trunkable, not?
06:41<yorick>and the game itself is ruined?
06:42<Gekz>how useless.
06:43<Roujin>okay, this is certainly growing over my head now :P I'll post the version Gekz can use now for his savegame, then make another one which is able to load trunk again and uses a sensible savegame version, but thats it then.
06:43<Roujin>legacy saves - no wai oO
06:44<Trond>and we wount bug you again untill another update is needed :P
06:44<Trond>jokes aside: its really really apreciated!
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06:47<Gekz>Roujin: I think you and everyone else misunderstood me
06:48<Gekz>what I meant was if you put the patch I need to use on the net, call it legacy
06:48<Gekz>so people dont use it unless they have to
06:48<Gekz>kill it off
06:49<Ammler>yorick: why should the game be ruined?
06:49<Ammler>you just loose the patch settings
06:50<Ammler>what happen, if you load a save without daylength to a daylength client?
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07:00<jez9999>I'm just installing Visual Studio 2008 (I have to, work insists on it)
07:00<jez9999>it's like a not-so-small OS
07:00<jez9999>3 gigabytes, about half an hour and still installing
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07:12<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12804 /trunk/ (20 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: move the effect vehicle handling out of vehicle.cpp
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07:19<jez9999>oop. restart to complete the installation. see you on the other side!
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07:37<Ammler>someone here, likes to debug desync at coop ps?
07:38<Rubidium>is it reproducable? and what version are you running there?
07:39<Ammler>we now running nightly from yesterdayyesterday
07:39<Ammler>yesterday does sec fault, as you know :-)
07:39<Ammler>or current
07:40<Ammler>I guess, the save version jump was done with the new order system?
07:40<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12805 /trunk/src/ (news_func.h news_gui.cpp news_type.h settings.cpp): -Codechange: remove some bit magic related to the news display states. Patch by cirdan.
07:40<Rubidium>but... is it reproducable?
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07:42<Ammler>Rubidium: everybody desync after join, if you mean that with reproduceable
07:42<Ammler>2 players can join
07:42<Rubidium>reproducable as in loading savegame and then everybody desyncs
07:42<Ammler>and then is finish, everybody next will desync
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07:42<@peter1138>min_players 2, should we assume?
07:42<Ammler>I also restarted the server
07:43<Ammler>then it was possible for more players
07:43<Ammler>around 3-4
07:44<Ammler>we are now at year 2100, so it works quite a while
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07:45<Ammler>we began the game with rev 12735
07:46<jez9999>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12806 /trunk/src/ : -Codechange: rewrote game in C#. Works much better now.
07:47<Rubidium>wow... g++ compiles C#?
07:47<jez9999>i didnt say g++ :-)
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07:47<Roujin>lol what?
07:47<Rubidium>and no files are changed
07:47<jez9999>yeah the list was too long
07:48<Rubidium>and my opinion is that C# sucks
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07:48<jez9999>vs2008 is ridiculous though
07:48<jez9999>3gb, lol
07:49<Rubidium>and what do you get for that?
07:49<jez9999>they'll be selling the next version as a computer
07:49<ln>\o/ \o/
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07:49<jez9999>you cant actually install it on an existing one
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07:49<Rubidium>a 3D accelerated IDE?
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07:49<jez9999>pretty much yeah
07:49<jez9999>integrated testing capabilities
07:49<@peter1138>slow debuggers
07:50<jez9999>i didn't pay for it though
07:50<jez9999>got it through my work's MSDN sub
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07:51<Rubidium>well, I'd only think about installing MS* if I get paid for having it installed
07:51<Roujin>gratz ln
07:51<Roujin>where's the bus station though?
07:51<Tefad>Rubidium: same thing here.
07:51<jez9999>Rubidium: my job requires it, so yeah :-)
07:52<Tefad>however the likelyhood of getting paid to use it without knowing how to use it are slim to none in my case ; )
07:52*peter1138 still uses vs2003 & 2005
07:52*Rubidium still uses gcc 4.3
07:52<Tefad>i use bash, gcc, gdb, and joe
07:52<jez9999>i would use vs2005 if one of our devs (the lead) hadnt insisted in 2008 because of its improved integrated tests
07:52<@peter1138>sometimes i use gmcs
07:52<jez9999>he's obsessed with testing
07:53<Tefad>not a bad quality
07:53<Tefad>text editor
07:53<Rubidium>joe's own editor
07:53<Celestar>I use tcsh, vim, gcc and gdb :)
07:53<Tefad>i never got around to learning vi
07:53<jez9999>learn rocket science, it's easier
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07:53<Tefad>actually i did learn a lot about flight vehicle guidance systems at work
07:54<Tefad>i coded the simulator and search algorithms
07:54<jez9999>ive seen airplanes fly on OpenTTD so i know a bit
07:54<Rubidium>bye DorpsGek
07:55<Tefad>i don't get it, trams are another type of train that have bidi tracks?
07:55<jez9999>i've never understood why people like trams so much
07:55<DaleStan>Trams are RVs, not trais
07:55<jez9999>what are they, just things that make city roads more annying
07:55<Tefad>recreational vehicles?
07:55<Celestar>er... I'm an aerospace engineer/rocket scientist ... where's the problem?
07:55<DaleStan>road vehicles
07:56<Ammler>In add a railstation to see the difference
07:56<@peter1138>trams are trains that go on roads, but not always...
07:56<Tefad>except these RVs only work on special tram roads
07:56<jez9999>why bother to make it a train if it's going on a road? why not fit it with wheels?
07:56<ln>jez9999: then it would be a bus.
07:56<jez9999>no, because it wouldnt have an independent engine
07:56<@peter1138>trams don't have wheels? :o
07:57<jez9999>tyre wheels
07:57<jez9999>trams seem like a strange solution to a problem
07:57<Tefad>think of it as electrified RV
07:57<jez9999>you want a shuttle service, but you arent satisfied with the existing architecture so you make holes in the road
07:57<jez9999>why waste that money
07:57<jez9999>and bugger up the road
07:58<Tefad>well back in the day, engines kind of sucked
07:58<Tefad>i have no idea.
07:58<jez9999>i didnt say it had to have its own engine
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07:58<jez9999>just make it an electric line powered bus
07:58<Tefad>perhaps RVs forked from horse/buggy
07:58<Rubidium>because 30-50 meter busses don't corner that good
07:58<Rubidium>so it needs a little more guidance in the corners
07:59<Rubidium>which means tracks
07:59<Tefad>wow, i made no sense.
07:59<jez9999>trolleybusses do
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07:59<Tefad>well there were also horse drawn buggies on tracks
07:59<Tefad>which got upgraded to electric
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07:59<jez9999>they should have had a Flintstone's bus
08:00<jez9999>everyone pushes with their feet
08:00<jez9999>solve obesity too
08:01<jez9999>actually isn't that pretty much what busses in the US are now?
08:01<helb> is down?
08:01<Rubidium>seems so
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08:02<Rubidium>and it's back again ;)
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08:03<helb>great :)
08:04<jez9999>didnt they have a bus in one Flintstone's episode?
08:04<jez9999>where everyone was pushing with their feet?
08:04<jez9999>i cant remember
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08:10<ln>should the shadow be a part of the sprite itself?
08:11<Roest>what are we sdupposed to see here?
08:11<ln>something shadow-related.
08:11<Roest>i see no shadows
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08:13<Ammler>ln: rails for comparision :-)
08:13-!-SirBob [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
08:13<ln>i'm talking about the station list.
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08:14<Roest>Roujin: you here?
08:14<@peter1138>ln, yes
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08:15<Ammler>ln: not the tram symbol?
08:15<Ammler>sorry then :-)
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08:28<Roujin>Roest: yes
08:28<Roest>did you abandon industry station names, or any chance you might update it?
08:29<Roujin>well it's kind of broken (internally that is, it fiddles around with strings). I might redo it properly some time, but not now...
08:30<Roujin>I wonder if that newgrf feature "naming of nearby station" was implemented in the meantime..
08:31<Roujin>i read something about it, but can't remember if it was only preparing stuff, or really implementing it..
08:32<Roest>ok, was just wondering, sounds like a nice feature
08:33<Ammler>Roujin: does daylength also change something else then patch settings in save?
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08:37<Roujin>+ * modified _cur_player_tick_index (misc), _next_competitor_start (misc), running_ticks (vehicle)
08:37<Roujin>types change from uint16 to uint32 or something
08:37<Roujin>to cope with higher values resulting from the longer days
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08:39<Roujin>I had to find that out myself the hard way (hmm, why does it still not load trunk savegames?), hooray for not documenting anything *cough* :D
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08:40<Roujin>whatever, now i've completed the possible-to-load-from-current-trunk-and-now-has-better-savegame-version-handling-but-breaks-compatibility-with-previous-versions-of-this-patch version and will post it
08:41<Roest>good thing is, the yapp i use in my patchpack breaks savegame compatibility anyway, so i dont have to worry about it for the rest of the stuff anyway
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08:46<Roujin>!seen KUDr
08:46<Roujin>@seen KUDr
08:46<@DorpsGek>Roujin: KUDr was last seen in #openttd 25 weeks, 3 days, 22 hours, 22 minutes, and 6 seconds ago: <KUDr> good
08:46<Roujin>not good
08:47<Roujin>hmm, who knows all about yapf?
08:48<Rubidium>but you knew that already
08:48-!-KingJ-ICantGetTheNickIWant is now known as KingJ
08:48<@peter1138>hmm, yes, yapf.hpp is ... nasty
08:50<yorick>back: I was temporarily ill
08:56<Roest>Maximum fuzz factor: 580 urgs
08:58<Roest>it guesses so many difficult things right but fails at totally easy stuff like a simple include line
09:02<Ammler>Rubidium: after restart of the server, its possible to join for many players, after about a minute, noone can join anymore
09:02<Ammler>(maybe less then minute)
09:04<Roest>the forum needs a "set all posts read" button
09:04<Rubidium>Roest: it has one
09:04<Rubidium>at least in the 'default' style
09:05<Roest>uh, i have the ttd style which i thought is the default style here
09:05<Rubidium>it is
09:05<+michi_cc>Roujin: what do you want to know? Maybe I can help, I have been digging around there for some time now :)
09:05<Rubidium>Roest: just above the start of all the fora is a "Mark forums read" link
09:06<Roest>that's embarassing
09:06<rebry>oki, question before i start.. how hard do you guys think it would be to elevate the trams above the roads? so the trams rides on their own "city-rails" whitout blocking the busses?
09:07<Tefad>does that happen in real life?
09:07<Tefad>same alignment?
09:08<Roest>but then it's more like road and rails are seperated
09:08<Tefad>at-grade intersections in less dense areas
09:09<yorick>ah, I installed sdl, lets see how it'll work
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09:12<yorick>configure should give me an option to compile without AI
09:13<+glx>yorick: implement it :)
09:15<yorick>...and get a 0.6 % chance it makes it into trunk
09:15*yorick want flags in client list
09:15<mrfrenzy>rebry: that would be really nice
09:23<rebry>havent got anything else to do :P
09:23<yorick>sdl fails :(
09:24<yorick>G:/BoTTD/BoTTD/msys/home/ottdsrc/trunk/objs/lang/strings.h:1915: error: `StringID' does not name a type
09:24<yorick>I can't get the errors logged
09:24<+glx>that's not sdl
09:25<yorick>but it works without sdl
09:25<+glx>sdl does nothing at compile time for windows
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09:25<yorick>it compiles sdl.h
09:25<+glx>nothing important that is
09:26<+glx>and I compile with sdl
09:26<yorick>I can't get the first error to be shown
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09:30<yorick>ok, this is what I did to install sdl: got, extracted it, copied files in include/SDL to the mingw/include dir, copied files in lib to ming/lib, copied bin/sdl-config to msys/bin/sdl-config, and configured &&made
09:30<+glx>something weird happens on your side
09:31<+glx>I always compile sdl myself
09:31<yorick>if I try to copy the files in include/SDL to mingw/include/SDL, then it can't find SDL.h
09:32<+glx>hmm I use 1.2.12
09:32*glx should update
09:34<yorick>hmm...ottd wants me to have my SDL.h in the main includes dir?
09:35<Sacro>yorick: ./configure --prefix=/usr && make && make install
09:35<+glx>sdlconfig tells ottd where sdlfiles are
09:36<Sacro>glx: but if he doesn't use configure then it won't be set right IIRC
09:36<yorick>Sacro, that's for compiling sdl?
09:36<+glx>Sacro: dunno, I always compile sdl
09:36<yorick>why /usr?
09:36<Sacro>could use /usr/local
09:36<yorick>I just downloaded the development libraries
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09:37<Sacro>surely you have to build the libraries from source?
09:37<Sacro>oh, is it a dll + a header?
09:37<yorick>but I'll compile sdl
09:38<yorick>eeh...and I thought ottd had a big configure script
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09:42<+glx>yorick: autoconf is nice for checking silly stuff ;)
09:43<yorick>it checked iconv for 3 times now
09:43<yorick>and 3 times no
09:43<+glx>and it does it for g++, g77, ...
09:43<Rubidium>it just wants to be sure that iconv isn't installed
09:44<yorick>it's generating dependencies
09:45<+glx>anyway checking g77 for a C lib is just silly
09:46<yorick>why isn't the precompiled one working
09:46<+glx>maybe you didn't installed it in the right place
09:47<yorick>I followed some guide
09:48<+glx>usually you just put the files in the same tree as they are in the tar.gz
09:48<+glx>ad it should work
09:49<yorick>it couldn't find SDL.h that way
09:49<+glx>but as you said, you didn't followed this tule
09:49<yorick>because it didn't work
09:50<+glx>sdl-config should be in mingw/bin
09:50<+glx>not in msys/bin
09:50<Gekz>does mingw compile trunk atm?
09:50<yorick>bottd uses it
09:51<Gekz>why didnt it work for me
09:51<yorick>not the right libs?
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09:51<+glx>bottd may need to be updated to latest mingw gcc release
09:51<Gekz>no, the libs are right
09:51<+glx>(vista support)
09:51<Gekz>it was some random sprintf error
09:51<Gekz>right at the linking
09:52<+glx>sdl compiled, now installing
09:53<yorick>I'll try with the devel package one more time
09:54<yorick>[SRC] Compiling sdl.cpp
09:54<yorick>In file included from G:/BoTTD/BoTTD/msys/home/ottdsrc/trunk/src/sdl.cpp:10:
09:54<yorick>G:/BoTTD/BoTTD/msys/home/ottdsrc/trunk/src/sdl.h:16:18: SDL.h: No such file or directory
09:54<+glx>where is sdl-config
09:54<+glx>where are the includes?
09:55<yorick>sdl config is in mingw/bin, includes are in mingw/includes/SDL
09:55<yorick>prefix=/Users/hercules/tmp/SDL-1.2.13 is in sdl-config
09:55<yorick>so I'm probably using the wrong prefix
09:56<yorick>but what prefix to use?
09:56<+glx>I use /usr/local (points to mingw)
09:57<+glx>check sdl-config --cflags outpu
09:57<yorick>-DWITH_SDL -I/Users/hercules/tmp/SDL-1.2.13/include
09:58<+glx>ok the sdl packager should be slapped
09:58<yorick>hmm...I'll try with /mingw, as that points to mingw for me
09:59<yorick>using CFLAGS... -O2 -fomit-frame-pointer -DMINGW -Wall -Wno-multichar -Wsign-compare -Wundef -Wwrite-strings -Wpointer-arith -Wno-uninitialized -W -Wno-unused-parameter -mno-cygwin -DWIN -DWITH_SDL -I/mingw/include/SDL -D_GNU_SOURCE=1 -Dmain=SDL_main -DWITH_ZLIB -DWITH_PNG -I/mingw/include/libpng12 -DUNICODE -D_UNICODE -DENABLE_NETWORK -DWITH_PERSONAL_DIR -DPERSONAL_DIR=\\"OpenTTD\\" -DGLOBAL_DA
09:59<yorick>TA_DIR=\\"/usr/local/share/games/openttd\\" -Wstrict-prototypes -Wdeclaration-after-statement -Wold-style-definition
09:59<yorick>looks better :)
10:00<yorick>despite the fact it has to recompile
10:00<+glx>so as I understand it, using precompiled sdl-dev is a very bad idea for mingw :)
10:01<yorick>correction: a precompiled sdl-dev for mingw is a very bad idea for mingw
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10:05<yorick>I hope sdl will do better with 32bpp
10:05<+glx>it uses GDI
10:05<yorick>unless you specify sdl
10:05<+glx>sdl uses gdi internally
10:06<+glx>it's just a wrapper
10:06<+glx>it can use DX too, but DX headers don't work well with mingw
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10:08<yorick>aaw...same error
10:08<yorick>again the strings.h problem
10:09<yorick>G:/BoTTD/BoTTD/msys/home/ottdsrc/trunk/objs/lang/strings.h:3182: error: `StringID' does not name a type
10:09<yorick>make[1]: *** [sdl.o] Error 1
10:09<yorick>x 1000
10:09<+glx>you have a weird problem
10:09<+glx>as it works for me
10:09<+glx>any patch applied?
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10:11<yorick>I'm compiling sdl now
10:12<yorick>looks scary to see SDL_fatal.o on the screen
10:19<yorick>ooh...sdl 1.2.12 supports nintendo DS
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10:20<Noldo>oftc won't allow changing nick when on +m channel
10:20<yorick>but you can change nick using nickserv
10:20<yorick>nickserv identify password username
10:20<yorick>or just quit that channel
10:21<Alberth>yorick: make[1]: *** [sdl.o] Error 1 <-- trying to compile sdl.c that includes strings.h?
10:21<Alberth>also good :)
10:22<yorick>sdl.cpp and sdl.h don't have strings.h
10:22<Alberth>your include path settings are not set correctly, since it seems to pick the OpenTTD strings.h instead of the std C lib one
10:23<Alberth>at my Linux system: /usr/include/strings.h
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10:24<Ammler>stange, now the desyncs are gone, nobody knows, why... :)
10:24<yorick>hmm...where to set them?
10:25<Rubidium>Ammler: can't fix it when you can't reliably reproduce it...
10:25<Ammler>I understand, is just confusing
10:26<Ammler>I assume, its OS releated issue
10:26<Ammler>someone who isn't playing anymore
10:27<Alberth>yorick: I don't understand why we don't have this problem...
10:27<yorick>i'm now running make && make install
10:28<yorick>although it seems to be installing it into /msys/local
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10:30<Gekz>is ottd translated to esperanto? :P
10:30<Patrick`_>feel free to do it
10:30<Rubidium>partly (quite some missing strings)
10:30<Tefad>esperanto.. what about lojban
10:30<Tefad>i'd like to learn lojban someday
10:30<yorick>I remember putting an esperanto flag into openttdw.grf
10:30<Gekz>lojban is so ugly
10:31<Gekz>yorick: why
10:31<yorick>because that patch made it into trunk
10:32<Ammler>Gekz: if know, how/where do find infos about adding new language, tell me, webtranslater2 doesn't tell much
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10:33<Gekz>Ammler: edit a text file
10:34<Ammler>Gekz: if you like to make it seriously, you should use the webtranslator
10:34<Gekz>Tefad: why lojban
10:34<Gekz>Ammler: or, I could simply know the language
10:34<Gekz>and do it right
10:34<Tefad>because it's more interesting than esperanto.
10:34<Gekz>Tefad: its ugly as hell lol
10:35<Gekz>and nearly pure logic poured out as "words"
10:35<Tefad>there are ways to express yourself
10:35<Gekz>pei .o'ucu'i | [?] [relaxation!] [neutral] | Are you no longer in pain?
10:35<Gekz>it's ugly.
10:36<Gekz>ko ga'inai nenri klama le mi zdani | you-[imperative] [me-the-social-inferior!] inside-type-of come that-which-is-described-as having-to-do-with-me house | I would be honored if you would enter my residence.
10:36<Tefad>have you seen malaysian or indonesian text?
10:37<Tefad>i'd still like to learn it
10:37<Tefad>even if not to use it every day
10:37<Tefad>if you can translate something into lojban and again translated it to something else
10:38<Tefad>you can probably translate the first language into the latter using lojban as an intermediate
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10:38<Tefad>that's one idea anyway : )
10:39<Gekz>that sounds kinda pointless
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10:39<Gekz>theres not many situations where you cant translate A to B
10:39<Gekz>it's not language pseudocode
10:41<Gekz>anywho, good night all
10:42<yorick>good evening
10:43<Ammler> <-- that link is at, if you klick at the revision
10:44<Rubidium>slap TrueBrain
10:44<Noldo>while you are at it tell him to change where points
10:44<Ammler>maybe change to a HQ link or removing
10:45<Ammler>shortlog from hq might be a good one there
10:45<Ammler>HG :-)
10:45<yorick>yeah, Alberth, same error again
10:48<Alberth>yorick: I don't have objs/lang/strings.h, but objs/lang/table/strings.h
10:49<yorick>fixed it by replacing # include <strings.h> to # include "../include/strings.h"
10:50<Rubidium>yorick: but #include <strings.h> isn't used by openttd
10:50<yorick>it is by sdl
10:50<yorick>hmm...Alberth: I do
10:51<Alberth>do you have table/strings.h? I always build with --enable-debug configure flag, maybe that makes a difference
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10:51<@peter1138>Rubidium: yorick is doing something very wrong
10:51<Rubidium>he probably has some tainted checkout
10:52*yorick deletes file
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10:53*yorick got it working
11:06<yorick>better graphs has a problem with newcargos
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11:10<@peter1138>no shit :)
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11:23<Roujin>i hate bots ><
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11:25<yorick>other people hate !logs
11:27<CIA-3>OpenTTD: richk * r12806 /branches/NewGRF_ports/ (69 files in 8 dirs): [NewGRF_ports] -Sync: with trunk r12773:12805.
11:28<yorick>keeps syncing :o
11:29<yorick>what is hetrying to do with it
11:30<yorick>it's already outdates, newgrf_ports is at 12805, while trunk is at 12806...
11:35<+glx>12806 is not trunk
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11:46<Ammler>other strange behaviour, trucks (from 4LV) don't unload completly...
11:46<Ammler>no timetable set
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11:49<Ammler>it happens only with one Typ: McTruck
11:54<+glx>maybe incorrect properties
11:55<Ammler>I autoreplaced them
11:56<Ammler>I'll check with new Trucks now
11:56<Ammler>cool that RV have now same order possibilities as trains :-)
11:57<Ammler>with new Trucks, they are empty after unload
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12:38<Wolf01>I know I might not understood well the transfer feature, but how can I make money by transferring the goods from a station to a city if the trucks make twice the running costs as negative profit?
12:41<Wolf01>yes, it's what I'm doing, but Truck->Train->long track->destination works, but train->long track->truck->destination don't work
12:42<Wolf01>transfer is usefull only to load a train, not to unload it
12:43<SmatZ>Wolf01: maybe the trucks are too slow, so the cargo has less value after being delivered by trucks
12:43<SmatZ>eg. you are paid for distance and speed
12:43<Wolf01>train is slow too, I'm at the beginning of the game
12:43<SmatZ>train does long distance in short time, so it is paid a lot
12:43<SmatZ>but then trucks take that cargo
12:43<bowman>shouldn't the transfered cargo remember its total distance and time
12:43<SmatZ>and then, it has lower value at destination
12:44<SmatZ>bowman: it does
12:44<Wolf01>train go at 96kmh, truck at 64, but it have only 10 tiles to travel
12:44<SmatZ>you can count also time it has to wait for pickup
12:45<Wolf01>none, the train arrives the truck picks up the goods and bring them to the city
12:46<Wolf01>I have 4 trucks whick pick up goods from the station, and the trucks have about 1/10 of the train running cost, but they make 10 times at year negative profit
12:47<Wolf01>1.5M running cost and -12M profit
12:48<Wolf01>the train have 24M r.c. and makes 240M profit
12:48<stillunknown>more loss than running cost?
12:48<Wolf01>yes, about 10 times
12:49<SmatZ>I wouldn't wonder if it lost 1/20 of its value there
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12:51<stillunknown>A vehicle should never loose more than it's running cost.
12:51<SmatZ>stillunknown: with transfers, it can
12:51<bowman>if its working, you should notice the trucks earning a lot more than they normally would for that cargo over 10 tiles, when they drop the transfered stuf
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12:52<Wolf01>train orders: full load -> transfer and leave empty;
12:52<Wolf01>vehicle orders: full load -> unload if accepted
12:56<yorick>...sdl disabled me from reaching the close button on the openttd window :o
12:56<yorick>alt-f4 also fails
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13:16<Rubidium>Wolf01: the train gets paid for it's travelled distance + time
13:17<Rubidium>the road vehicle gets paid for the total distance the cargo moved (straight line across the map) and the time it too MINUS the amount already paid to the train
13:17<Rubidium>so if the train gets 90% of the distance in 50% of the time the train has a big profit
13:18<Rubidium>however, the road vehicle causes the total profit (for the given cargo) to be lower than the profit for the train, thus it gets a negative profit
13:18<Rubidium>the major 'issue' in this is that substracting profit from the first train is very complex and only slows down the game and makes the savegame size explode
13:19<Wolf01>so I was right when I told "transfer works only truck->train"
13:20<Wolf01>no, right, also truck->truck
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13:21<Roujin>it does work
13:21<Roujin>you get the right amount of money
13:21<Rubidium>it depends on the speed and the distance travelled of the train/truck
13:22<Wolf01>if I carry goods with truck from the same distance, assuming there is a factory instead of the station, trucks will profit a lot
13:23<Rubidium>Wolf01 fails to understand how transfers work
13:24<Wolf01>if trucks should make at least the train profit to earn money, I'll sell the train and use trucks to travel across half the map
13:25<Wolf01>ok, tell me how to do it, I'm sure I'm doing it in the right way
13:25<Rubidium>you do not understand the workings of transfers, so lets try to reexplain it
13:27<Rubidium>all vehicles that transfer cargo onto a station get paid as if they would transport the cargo from the pickup station to the dropoff station. However, the amount paid to these vehicles is 'stored' in the cargo value.
13:27-!-Osai`off is now known as Osai
13:28<Rubidium>the last 'leg', the one that picks up cargo and delivers it to a station without the transfer order, gets paid according to the distance from the origin of the cargo (the very first station the cargo was on) to the destination
13:28<Wolf01>ok, I understood this
13:29<Rubidium>*but* now the amount of money paid to the previous vehicles, the amount stored in the cargo value is substracted from that profit
13:29<Rubidium>this to make it impossible to cheat by transporting cargo from the south to the north and back and getting loads and loads of money
13:30<Rubidium>during a transfer no money will be added to your (global) company balance
13:30<CIA-3>OpenTTD: richk * r12807 /branches/NewGRF_ports/src/ (5 files): [NewGRF_ports] -Fix: New files failed to get added to svn on last merge.
13:31<Rubidium>the addition of money to the company balance happens at the final delivery and is as if you would have transported the cargo from it's origin directly to the destination in the time it took with transfers
13:32<Eddi|zuHause2> <ln> comments? <- i think the tram lacks wheels
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13:34<Wolf01>but what I can't understand is why I get "paid" 90M for the 95% of the travel, and -25M for the 5%
13:34<Eddi|zuHause2>because the cargo waited long at the station?
13:35<Wolf01>no, I don't think so
13:35<Eddi|zuHause2>the 90M is just an estimation
13:35<Wolf01>the 5% is 10 tiles
13:35<Eddi|zuHause2>the last bit takes longer than estimated
13:35<Eddi|zuHause2>so you get less
13:35<Wolf01>it's longer like the pause the train have to service at the depot
13:36<Wolf01>so the train don't lose 25M for a pause
13:36<Ammler>other problme could also be, if you transport it "back"?
13:36<ln>Eddi|zuHause2: i know, but so do these:
13:37<Rubidium>Wolf01: if you would a train let the same cargo travel over the same distance in the same time as the complete trip with transfer, the train would only have a 65M profit.
13:37<Wolf01>same identic route, I only used a truck, instead of a train: 10M of profit
13:37<Rubidium>but the trip took way longer
13:38<Wolf01>yes, twice as the train
13:38<Rubidium>the -25M is just a 'fix' of the overestimation done for the train
13:39<Wolf01>but apply it to the train, not to the road vehicle
13:39<Rubidium>but... *how* to 'fix' such an overestimation on the non-last vehicle?
13:39<Wolf01>the train make big moneys, the road vehicle pay 5M only to start the engine so
13:39<Eddi|zuHause2>ln: i'm sure i have shown you this before:
13:40<Ammler>but the company makes the money
13:40<Ammler>not the single vehicle
13:40<Wolf01>yes, but I lose points
13:40<Ammler>oh, good porint
13:40<Wolf01>because I can't reach the minimal profit
13:40<Rubidium>then what should we do?
13:40<Rubidium>not pay the train?
13:40<Rubidium>or rather
13:40<Rubidium>how much do we have to pay the train?
13:41<Eddi|zuHause2>compare to this for the bus:
13:41<Rubidium>only variables you may use are:
13:41<Ammler>do you now pay the money, he would get, if it wouldn't be transfer?
13:41<Rubidium>origin of cargo, total days in transport, already paid profits to previous trains, last pickup station, drop off station
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13:41<Wolf01>now I removed all the transfer orders and the train UNLOADS, trucks now are happy with they 7M of profit
13:42<Eddi|zuHause2> <- and this for a truck
13:42<Wolf01>but the train is not happy
13:42<ln>Eddi|zuHause2: here's a fake screenshot of one with wheels:
13:43<Wolf01>train should be paid when truck get paid
13:43<Eddi|zuHause2>a little better, but i would make the windows rectangular
13:43<Rubidium>Wolf01: and how to account that?
13:43<Rubidium>without exploding the savegame size
13:44<Wolf01>a flag on the stuff the train is carrying, but as you say that's the problem
13:45<Fingon>or change the point system so it does not count vehicles that never make a profit?
13:45<Rubidium>it means that you need to store a list of pickup location, drop off location, vehicle and time travelled for *EACH* vehicle in the transfer chain for each packet
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13:45<Rubidium>Fingon: so a company that has only loss making vehicles get full score for minimum vehicle profitability?
13:45<Fingon>no, because those vehicles get some income
13:46<Rubidium>from where?
13:46<Fingon>but when income == 0 , so yearly "profit" == running costs,
13:46<Fingon>then not count them
13:46<Wolf01>there's already the transfer credits variable, I don't know how it is filled, but I think that it could be modified a little
13:46<Fingon>so if you have 1 vehicle that earns 10k and 100 that earn 0, you get full score
13:47<Fingon>but if you have just 100 that earn 0, you have 0 score (as you don't have vehicles that can be used in the calculation)
13:47<Rubidium>Wolf01: it is incremented by each transfering vehicle by the amount of profit that vehicle would have made when it would have picked up the cargo at the place it picked up the cargo, would have dropped the cargo at the place it dropped the cargo and took the time it did take.
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13:55<Wolf01>just a little think, train & truck, same route, different time/quantity
13:55<Wolf01>train(100t): 100M
13:55<Wolf01>truck(15t): 10M
13:55<Wolf01>train(100t - unload) + truck(15t): train -rc, truck 7.5M -> total income 48.75 (truck must do 6.5 travels)
13:55<Wolf01>train(100t - transfer) + truck(15t): train 100, truck -10*rc
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13:56<Wolf01>why not behave the same as unloading, and pay the train like the truck: 48.75M?
13:56<Wolf01>maybe subtract the running costs
14:03<Wolf01>ah I just noticed the most weird thing: I don't need trucks anymore, the city has espanded while we had this nice conversation
14:03<Eddi|zuHause2>i'm not sure what you are trying to suggest
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14:21<Eddi|zuHause2>hm... can i make the default houses accept food in temperate?
14:22<@peter1138>newgrf :D
14:23<Eddi|zuHause2>i mean with less than 3 lines changed ;)
14:23<DaleStan>newgrf would be 0 lines changed.
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14:24<Eddi|zuHause2>no, it wouldn't, it would need line changes after creating a line
14:25<bowman>wouldn't the transfer issue be solved by just not storing the negative income adjustment per transfer vehicle? as long as the company gets the right amount, does the income stats for the individual vehicles have to necessarily add up?
14:30<Ammler>bowman: every vehicle needs a minimum profit of 10k
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14:35<bowman>yes, which isn't possible if the last vehicle in the transfer chain can get stuck with a negative profit to compensate for any over-estimate for a previous vehicle
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14:39<Eddi|zuHause2>bloody passengers... they don't pay me anything
14:40<Eddi|zuHause2>not one penny...
14:40<Eddi|zuHause2>we need fractional currencies
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14:52<Eddi|zuHause2>minimum of 1 payment... much better...
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15:10<Eddi|zuHause2>i'm kinda missing a small ferry
15:10<Eddi|zuHause2>for like 20 people or something
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15:12<mrfrenzy>better use a helicopter eddi|zuhause2
15:12<Eddi|zuHause2>yes, i use helicopters in 1927
15:15<Ammller>isn't possible to start without
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15:17<Eddi|zuHause2>you can start with an empty
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15:30<Eddi|zuHause2>man... this fruit plantation has a monthly production of 0
15:30<Eddi|zuHause2>very effective...
15:32<@Bjarni>maybe they ran out of money and started paying salaries in their own product
15:32<@Bjarni>it happens quite often in Russia shortly after USSR fell
15:33<@Bjarni>generally the workers accepted it but it turned out to be an issue on a dildo factory
15:34<@Bjarni>for some reason the workers didn't want to get paid a dildo a day (or whatever) instead of money
15:37<Wolf01>sacro would have been happy
15:40<@Bjarni>Sacro: there is an ideal job for you in Russia
15:40<@Bjarni>put dildos in boxes and get x dildos for every hour you work
15:41<@Bjarni>so you will have new stuff to play with every night
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15:56<KingJ>Think I may have set the record for generating a map. 14 mins :P
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16:01<@Bjarni>it's just a matter of using an old enough computer
16:01<hylje>a computer old enough
16:01<hylje>and hacking the map generator to include arbitrary sleep()s
16:01<KingJ>900Mhz celeron laptop, circa 2000
16:01<@Bjarni>it took long enough to generate a 256x256 map on my 266 MHz
16:02<krix>hm just a quick q. Maybe i missed something. Is there any option for a server, that if no user connected to it, then slow down the gameplay by Yx rate ?
16:02<@Bjarni> <-- clever device to ensure that other people will not see what you do on your computer
16:02<hylje>there's an option to pause the game when there's less than x players
16:02<@Bjarni>krix: there is the pause option
16:02<krix>only pause ?
16:03<hylje>good enoug
16:03<krix>sometimes :)
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16:07<Sacro>Bjarni: nice
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16:08<rebry>guys, are there a DO NOT go there waypont?
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16:08<Progman>delete the track and they DO NO go there? ;)
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16:09<rebry>yeah. :P
16:10<Eddi|zuHause2><KingJ> Think I may have set the record for generating a map. 14 mins :P <- it has taken me 30 minutes yesterday
16:10<Eddi|zuHause2>much faster computer
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16:54<@peter1138>have you got the shadow in, yet?
16:54<@Bjarni>is that supposed to be a tram pictogram?
16:56<ln>peter1138: nope, i tried though, but it didn't seem to have any effect.
16:56<ln>Bjarni: yes, it is.
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16:57<@Bjarni>doesn't look much like a tram :s
16:58<@Bjarni>trams looks more like [••<>••]
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16:58<@Bjarni>that didn't really look like what I meant
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16:58<@Bjarni>but I guess you get what I meant
17:00<ln>Bjarni: you're free to show your idea of a ~13×9-pixel tram.
17:01<bowman>looks like the common tram icon to me
17:03<hylje>it's funny because 1) no tram here uses a 2-way pantograph and 2) every tram is articulated at least once
17:04<Rubidium>hylje: there are unarticulated trams
17:04<hylje>let me elaborate, in regular traffic :-)
17:04<Rubidium>there are unarticulated trams in regular traffic
17:04<hylje>i did specify "here"
17:05<Rubidium>here is on this planet ;)
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17:05<Eddi|zuHause2>"here" trams used to have diamond-pantographs
17:06<hylje>there are other ways to read it if you like
17:06<Eddi|zuHause2>and weren't articulated
17:06<Eddi|zuHause2>but upon modernising the old stock they put half-pantographs on
17:07<Eddi|zuHause2>bowman: i have told him that many times ;)
17:07*hylje will also elaborate that regular traffic implied, currently
17:09<ln>btw, the icon may need to be moved one pixel down, or the drawing order of the station signs changed.
17:13<Eddi|zuHause2>ln: what do you think about something like this:
17:14<Eddi|zuHause2>should have the same dimension as yours
17:15<ln>not bad at all
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17:18<@peter1138>yeah, it has wheels :D
17:18<ln>rectangular wheels
17:19<Eddi|zuHause2>no! i used a 1x1 "circle" in gimp
17:19<ln>ah, no problem then, they'll roll.
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17:24<ln>is it possible that the icons' shadows and icons itself are two separate sprites in the commercial grfs?
17:24<Eddi|zuHause2>glyphs should be 3 colour
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17:37<CIA-3>OpenTTD: glx * r12808 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt players.cpp):
17:37<CIA-3>OpenTTD: -Fix: enforce autorenew values range in command
17:37<CIA-3>OpenTTD: -Fix: typo in english.txt
17:38<CIA-3>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12809 /trunk/src/aircraft_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r1704): Possible out of bounds array access.
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17:50<CIA-3>OpenTTD: glx * r12810 /trunk/src/players.cpp: -Codechange: style and useless casts in CmdSetAutoReplace()
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18:27<Digitalfox>Wow Firefox 2.* and Memory managing sucks big time.. I just have Chazilla opened with 3 channels with empty conversations and it's using 150MB of RAM..
18:29<+glx>they should have fixed that in version 3
18:29<Digitalfox>glx I hope so.. But still beta 5 so few extensions working..
18:29<+glx>or you can use a real IRC client :)
18:30<Digitalfox>The problems is that Firefox 2 doesn't empty memory after closing tabs.. So if you reach 200MB it won't go down :(
18:30<Digitalfox>glx chatzilla is fine for what I do.. It's simple and light on system..
18:31-!-Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:31<Digitalfox>Well when Firefox does this it isn't light, but restarting firefox should fix the issue :)
18:32<+glx>firefox, 9 tabs -> 232800K
18:33<+glx>kvirc, 5 servers, 11 chans -> 72600K
18:33<Prof_Frink>irssi is using 18% of my memory.
18:35<Prof_Frink>Which I make as 5898K
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19:18<Eddi|zuHause2>something's still wrong with the daylength...
19:18<Eddi|zuHause2>the decay of ratings
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19:26<CIA-3>OpenTTD: glx * r12811 /branches/noai/ (bin/ai/regression/regression.txt src/economy.cpp): [NoAI] -Fix (r12431): passengers subsidies are from towns to towns, not to industries
19:50<CIA-3>OpenTTD: richk * r12812 /branches/NewGRF_ports/src/ (newgrf.cpp newgrf_fsmports.h):
19:50<CIA-3>OpenTTD: [NewGRF_ports] -Change: Added animation variables to fsmportspec and newgrf loader.
19:50<CIA-3>OpenTTD: (Will unify & Oo-ify stationspec and fsmportspec later)
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23:06<spelling2>what do you call people who doesn't let you eat or encourage you eat good healthy mental food? and force you to eat shitty mental food such as video games and television..wrong education etc?
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---Logclosed Mon Apr 21 00:00:41 2008