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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-04-21

---Logopened Mon Apr 21 00:00:41 2008
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01:30<sdtr443w>Is there anybody active right now that is familiar with the source? I wanted to ask something about the pathfinding code.
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02:11<Rubidium>sdtr443w: better ask what you want to know because then somebody might answer it. Now nobody will probably do it because they do not think they know the pathfinding well enough.
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02:13<Trond>how are the chances for something like this getting to trunk?
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02:14<sdtr443w>Rubidium I just posted on the forums. I figured it would last there better.
02:14<sdtr443w>(mostly because I'm about to pass out)
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03:02<Roest>roujin ?
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03:49<Trond>now wonder station I changed messed up :P
03:49<Trond>no wonder*
03:51<Ammler>you should not make bug report with patched client... :-)
03:54<Roest>hmm your icons look different than mine, or is it just another climate and i never noticed that?
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03:54<Trond>I did include the fact the it also acts like that with clean r12799 trunk...
03:55<Trond>Roest: it's the opengfx gui
03:58<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12813 /trunk/src/toolbar_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#1943]: the 'last built railtype' got reset too often.
03:58<Roest>guess i'm too noob again, how do i turn it on
03:59<Trond>you download it from somewhere within the opengfx thread :P its a grf file
03:59<Trond>thanks Rubidium
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04:00<Roest>ah ok, thought i overlooked a switch somewhere
04:00<Trond>nope, eventough it wouldnt be to hard to do that with all the patch settings available :D
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04:23<Celestar>Rubidium: i'm wondering. why doesn't yapp have a branch?
04:23*Roest chants trunk trunk trunk
04:25<@peter1138>Celestar: why? the michi_cc's used git for it
04:26<Celestar>didn't notice sorry
04:27<Celestar>I have never messed with git
04:27<@peter1138>his git patch has full history, i believe
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04:35<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12814 /trunk/src/vehicle_base.h: -Codechange: reshuffle some variables in the Vehicle struct saving 20 bytes with a 32 bit compiler and 32 bytes on 64 bit compiler per vehicle.
04:37<Celestar>32 bytes per vehicle?!
04:37<Celestar>that's a crapload
04:38<Rubidium>it's less than 10%
04:38<@peter1138>drops from 432 to 400 :o
04:38<Celestar>well ... in a FOR_ALL_VEHICLE loop that's still 10% memory bandwidth saved
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04:39<Roest>blah trond, i need to work
04:43<st6>I downloaded a grf and i cp it to ottd/data, and now the grf editor doesnt wanna find it
04:46<@peter1138>Celestar: memory bandwidth? FOR_ALL_VEHICLES does not copy it around...
04:46<@peter1138>hmm, but the cpu will load things into cache... dunno what block size though
04:49<Celestar>peter1138: good question
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05:00<Celestar>peter1138: well, basically it means that we can fit more into the cache
05:00<Celestar>peter1138: and we reduce cache misses
05:12<Celestar>someone from the administrative department just sent me a file
05:12<Celestar>it'S a word document
05:12<Celestar>it came per mail
05:12<Celestar>on a 3.5" FDD
05:13<Rubidium>ms word or word perfect?
05:13<Celestar>I dunno, since I can'T read it
05:13<mrfrenzy>maybe it's time you replaced their computers with something that lacks floppy drives ;)
05:13<Celestar>I don'T have a FDD :S
05:13<Celestar>mrfrenzy: I would but I'm no admin for that department
05:13<mrfrenzy>aah too bad then ;)
05:14<Celestar>me looks for a punchcard reader why search for a FDD
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05:16<Roest>maybe you should send them a 5.25" disc and say that's your answer
05:16<mrfrenzy>or a zip-disc
05:17<Celestar>I'll send them a holographic memory stick along with a printed copy of "The Physics of Star Trek"
05:17<HMage>you should send on a tape
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05:17<Celestar>yeah these old tapes they used in bad movies :P
05:19<@peter1138>bah, microsd
05:19<Celestar>I sent them a spreadsheet once (and even converted it to Excel for ease), with the request of revising? What did they do? They printed it out, corrected it, and faxed it back. Then they called and said "Oh we've marked some stuff in red and others in green so you can see it easily"
05:21<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12815 /trunk/src/cargopacket.h:
05:21<CIA-3>OpenTTD: -Codechange: reshuffle some variables in the CargoPacket struct saving 4 of 36
05:21<CIA-3>OpenTTD: bytes with a 32 bit compiler and 8 of 48 bytes on 64 bit compiler per cargo
05:21<CIA-3>OpenTTD: packets. There are generally more cargopackets in game than vehicles.
05:21<@peter1138>now that's a weird comment ;)
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05:22<@peter1138>Celestar: ...
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05:22<Celestar>peter1138: that was sort of my reaction
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05:28<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12816 /trunk/src/ (oldloader.cpp player_base.h players.cpp saveload.cpp): -Fix: the cargo count in the performance rating window could be wrong.
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06:18<mikl>æv, jeg er træt af at være syg
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06:20<mrfrenzy>mikl: jag fröstår dig, samma här ;)
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06:26<Roest>that blender thread has some amazing things
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06:34<Celestar>Roest: which thread?
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06:37*Celestar looks
06:38<Celestar>191 pages?!
06:38<@peter1138>Celestar: it's a project that hasn't really got anywhere
06:39<@peter1138>1) everything is the wrong scale
06:39<Roest>still some nice thing there
06:39<@peter1138>2) no coordination in doing a complete set
06:39<Celestar>we'd need a good coordination with some hierachy
06:40<Celestar>and good spelling
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06:40<Celestar>like a terrain leader, a buildings leader, a vehicle leader etc
06:40<Celestar>and then split further
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06:41<Roest>can i be the tropical beaches terrain leader?
06:42<Celestar>that you should make up with the terrain leader
06:43<@peter1138>if you're the tropical beach terrain leader, i want to be the steel bridge south slope terrain leader!
06:43<Celestar>methinks peter1138 overinterpreted something
06:44<Celestar>but it doesn't help much when people generate vehicles left and right
06:44<Roest>i think i can grant you that title
06:44<@peter1138>random vehicles
06:44<@peter1138>static industries (industries are built up out of different tile layouts, heh)
06:45<Roest>steel bridge south slope terrain leader, i expect your suggestions for a steel bridge over a tropical beach tomorrow
06:45<@peter1138>concrete piles
06:45<@peter1138>oh, tomorrow, not today
06:46<Celestar>plus the sprites need to have exactly the same aspect ratio as they have now and either a 1:1 or a 2:1 or a 4:1 scale
06:46<Roest>i guess it's just a show off blender skills thread
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06:52<Roest>btw is anyone of you using a ide for ottd development on linux?
06:53<@peter1138>not me
06:53<Roest>that's why you didnt get the north slope
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07:11<Celestar>Roest: yes :)
07:11<Celestar>Roest: it's called vim
07:12<planetmaker>o_O :)
07:12<Celestar>I've tried other IDEs (like kdevelop). nothing works as well ass vim
07:12*planetmaker thinks there are some masochists out there :)
07:13*Roest agrees with planetmaker
07:13<planetmaker>I've my own OS which is an IDE: Emacs :P
07:13<@peter1138>i use gedit when i have a lot to cut & paste around
07:13<@peter1138>normally i use vim
07:14<Celestar>planetmaker: emacs is a great OS, it just lacks a decent editor
07:14<Roest>lol emacs jokes never get old
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07:15<planetmaker>the good point being: I don't have to learn cvs. It just works...
07:15<Celestar>cvs sucks aynway
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07:16<Ammler>Has someone a save with North American City Set v0.1c?
07:16<teeg> speaking of emacs jokes.
07:17<Roest>lol ammler, that's a pretty specific request
07:17<Ammler>should be most current version of the set
07:18<Ammler>I am not able to use it in ottd, dunno, maybe I have wrong settings somewhere
07:18<@peter1138>works for me
07:18<Roest>i'm ttr, somehow i trust a 3.x version more than a 0.1
07:18<Roest>i'm using*
07:19<@peter1138>i use both
07:19<@peter1138> < big list ;)
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07:20<Rubidium>peter1138: it isn't THAT big ;)
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07:21<Rubidium>I see no 59 (IIRC) NewGRFs in there
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07:22<planetmaker>lol. xkcd is good as always :)
07:23<Ammler>wow, GRF missmatch
07:23<Ammler>not believeable, I do not have all GRFs you have :-)
07:23<Rubidium>no, you don't!
07:23<planetmaker>... sais one god of grf to the other? ;)
07:24<Ammler>UKRS I chain
07:24<Rubidium>then you've got a different build than the one peter1138 uses
07:26<@peter1138>Rubidium: true... i like games that are playable ;)
07:26<@peter1138>Ammler: new version released at the weekend
07:26<Ammler>peter1138: just changed the build to YAPP?
07:27<@peter1138>... no
07:27<@peter1138>i'm using 0.6.0 on there
07:27<Ammler>oh yeah
07:27<Ammler>hmm, do I need to restart the client?
07:29<Roest>omg so many 0.5.3 servers on myottd
07:29<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12817 /trunk/src/ (7 files): -Feature: the ability to play NewGRF sounds for industries and stations.
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07:29<Ammler>oh, you have mixed them
07:30<Ammler>NACity and TTRS
07:30<Roest>that's what he said
07:30<Ammler>I like to see such a city in ottd:
07:31<Ammler>should work, doesn't?
07:31<Roest>looks cool, link to the thread?
07:33<@peter1138>OH GOD MY EMAIL DOESN'T WORK
07:33<Ammler>oh, you have those cities on your server :-)
07:34<Roest>peter1138: reboot and it will work again
07:37<SpComb>Roest: I bet 90% of them are abandoned and defunct
07:38<Ammler>SpComb: you should "autodisable" them after a time of unusing.
07:38<Ammler>help me
07:38<@peter1138>with what?
07:38<Ammler>with the right word...
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07:40<@peter1138>unused is a word, yes
07:40<Ammler>there should also be filter at
07:41<SpComb>to filter out the dozens of servers that myottd advertises?
07:41<Eddi|zuHause3>"ungebraucht" ... who uses that word?!?
07:41<Ammler>SpComb: not only them
07:41<SpComb>but anyways, the lifetime of the current myottd code is limited, so I'm not going to touch it
07:42<Ammler>but there are also running myottd servers, it seems
07:45<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause3: german is a foreign language as english is. :-)
07:46<Roest>Trond: that patch is already broken beyond repair again, engine_base.h is gone
07:46<Ammler>has TTDPatch a switch for disabling default hauses?
07:46<Eddi|zuHause3>the grf should have that
07:47<Ammler>Roest: its no there yet, iirc
07:47<Ammler>you need to cp engine_type.h
07:48<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause3: TTRS has that, but I don't see it in NACity
07:49<Ammler>I have many default houses but you don't see them in the screen of the NACity thread.
07:54<@peter1138>there is no engine_base
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07:58<Roest>i noticed that, stupid patch then
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08:04<@peter1138>yes, ridiculous
08:08<SpComb>MyOTTD's current status is such that the most sensible course of action for me right now would be to temporarily take the service down, again
08:08<SpComb>my view of the matter is that it's currently only doing harm
08:08<@peter1138>disable it but leave the live servers going?
08:09<Noldo>SpComb: why is that?
08:09<SpComb>peter1138: what do you mean with live servers?
08:10<Noldo>games that are running?
08:10<@peter1138>servers with people playing on them
08:10<SpComb>leave them running without possibilities for management?
08:10<SpComb>that's one issue, I don't have any way to define what a live server is
08:11<@peter1138>check the server list
08:11<Roest>anything that's older than 0.6.0 for a start
08:11<SpComb>Noldo: I would be wasting my time if I do any work on the current code, and the current code is and never was fit for running on production
08:12<Roest> is down :(
08:12<SpComb>no, without the port
08:13<SpComb>although it's currently running some game that's in the year 8000 (or whatever...) and the company's gone bankrupt and dissapeared :)
08:14<SpComb>wait, I'll restart it
08:14<Roest>that's kinda cool
08:16<SpComb>and it works reasonably well
08:18<Ammler>SpComb: somhow possible to have other saves there or servers?
08:20<SpComb>not really, no
08:20<SpComb>it requires a customized version of OpenTTD, so it's pretty far away from being used like that
08:22<Noldo>you can't just feed a giant screen shot to the part that shows the picture?
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08:27<Ammler>stupid question, is it possible to have different values for resolution in window view and full?
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09:37<SpComb> <-- have a bugreport
09:38<+glx>SpComb: rev?
09:38<Eddi|zuHause3>it was fixed already afaik
09:39<+glx>fixed in 12796
09:41<Celestar>@openttd commit 12796
09:41<@DorpsGek>Celestar: Commit by rubidium :: r12796 trunk/src/video/dedicated_v.cpp (2008-04-19 21:51:05 UTC)
09:41<@DorpsGek>Celestar: -Fix: the dedicated blitter did segfault too, like the null blitter did.
09:41<Celestar>@openttd bugs
09:42<@DorpsGek>Celestar: Open Bugs: 28; Not assigned: 21; Closed this week: 11; Opened this week: 10
09:42<Rubidium>Celestar: go fix bugs if you want that number to be lower ;)
09:42<Celestar>Rubidium: I'll try to :)
09:42<Eddi|zuHause3>i'm sure i can find a couple of bugs to report, too :p
09:43<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause3: if you can, report them ...
09:45<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12818 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Codechange: make callbacks 31 and 37 behave like they do in TTDP according to frosch's survey.
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10:10<Celestar>hello Tim
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10:12<Axamenta>ey up
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10:33<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12819 /trunk/src/ (9 files): -Codechange: handle more NewGRFs in the same way as TTDP does it, i.e. testing the low bits for 0xFF or 0 instead of all bits.
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10:47<Gekz>how is everyone tonight
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10:48<frosch123>nice, sun in shining through the window :)
10:53<teeg>aagh, big evil daystar
10:58<Roest>sun is overrated
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11:01<Taejo>hi, I'm new to TTD and OpenTTD -- I was trying to follow the tutorial, but the "New Road Vehicles" window doesn't have any vehicles in it
11:03<Rubidium>what year did you start in?
11:03<Rubidium>and what 'climate'?
11:03<Roest>damn i was gonna ask that
11:03<Taejo>just used the defaults - the tutorial doesn't talk about that
11:04<Rubidium>still, what year is it?
11:04<Rubidium>that's way too early for vehicles to normally exist
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11:04<Roest>that's hardly the default
11:04<Taejo>well, I didn't change it
11:05<Taejo>thanks for your help
11:05<Roest>someone did, default is 1950
11:06<Roest>real die hard people start at 1920 tho
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11:08<Digitalfox_Home>Don't forget Roest with newgrf sets you can start before 1920 with vehicles :)
11:11<Roest>btw is there anything in the standard sets that's available before 1920?
11:11<Eddi|zuHause3>the standard sets start around 1935
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11:13<Roest>devs: is dynamic window creation on the list of future things?
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11:13<Eddi|zuHause3>only if you can do it without using OO :p
11:14<Gekz>is there a set that starts in the 1800s?
11:15<Eddi|zuHause3>Gekz: with what kind of vehicles?
11:15<Gekz>Eddi|zuHause3: trains of course
11:15<Eddi|zuHause3>serbian narrow gauge set starts in like 1870 or so
11:15<Gekz>eww narrow gauge
11:16<Eddi|zuHause3>1835 was the first railway in germany, afaik
11:16<Gekz>is there a german train set?
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11:17<Eddi|zuHause3>there's the DBSet, but it starts in 1920
11:17<Ammler>the earliest is canset, imo
11:17<Gekz>thats what I use
11:17<Ammler>around 1902
11:17<Gekz>Eddi|zuHause3: have you ever considered making your own newgrf?
11:17<Eddi|zuHause3>i have considered making my own newgrf description language, if that is what you mean ;)
11:18<Eddi|zuHause3>just i have not enough time
11:18<Ammler>hmm a finished GRFMaker would also help a lot, I guess
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11:18<Gekz>oh dear
11:19<Gekz>time to stop talking about him
11:19<Gekz>now that he's here.
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11:27<Roest>is this dead?
11:27<@peter1138>works for me
11:29<Roest>lol, i mean does anyone know this project or the makers, and is there still progress?
11:30<@peter1138>oh... no idea
11:32<Roest>so peter1138 while you're here and not working on a south sloped steal bridge, dynamic window creation?
11:35<Gekz>why are there no diagonal bridges
11:36<Roest>peter1138: see the cargo legend widget? i need adding of a panel at runtime
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11:37<frosch123>Roest: I guess you will find the authors at (german)
11:37<@peter1138>oh, well, that's possible
11:37<@peter1138>other windows have dynamic *widget* creation
11:37<@Belugas>Gekz, because you did not wrote the patch
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11:38<Gekz>Belugas: lol
11:39<@Belugas>in short, because they never have been designed, from day one, because it wold imply that roads might be diagonal too, because the sprite number would just sky rocket, because... not sure they would look good
11:40<@Belugas>AND because, as far as I know, they are not really a commun part of the feature that I hate the most, called REALITY
11:40<@Belugas>so MAYBE all these points are some explanations to X and Y only bridges
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11:44<@peter1138>i think that touched a nerve
11:44<Lakie>depends how you define diagonal roads, Belugas, after all diagonal is just a direction and roads go in all sorts of diretions...
11:46<@Belugas>they do? I though they were only based on X and Y axis?
11:46<Lakie>In reality?
11:46<@Belugas>no, in TTD
11:46<Lakie>In TTD, yes.
11:46<@peter1138>stupidly, the world does not come on a grid
11:47<@Belugas>most of th time, the BRIDGES are not diagonal either.
11:47<@Belugas>rght peter1138 :)
11:47<@Belugas>[11:46] <@Belugas> most of th time, IN REALITY, the BRIDGES are not diagonal either.
11:48<Gekz>I didnt mean diagonal road bridges
11:48<Gekz>I meant diagonal rail bridges
11:48<Lakie>You seen the british spegigi junction?
11:48<Gekz>I should have been more specific
11:48<Lakie>Bridges at all sorts of angles
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11:48<@Belugas>if you permit diag rail bridges, youpermit diag road briges too
11:49<Lakie>But I don't see any gain for having it in TTD.
11:49<@peter1138>speak for yourself
11:49<@peter1138>i'd like it
11:49<@peter1138>i've no idea how it would look
11:50<@peter1138>and especially how the slopes would work
11:50<Zolorado>hi! I need a bit help: in my language there are some non-latin characters, that can not displayed
11:50<Zolorado>how can I change the type?
11:50<Lakie>Does OpenTTd, support custom bridge heads yet, Peter / Belugas?
11:51<Gekz>it would be very helpful for track design
11:51<Gekz>would make a lot of things simpler
11:51<Lakie>Makes things more compact.
11:51<Gekz>and less ugly
11:51<Gekz>or chuck a rollercoaster tycoon
11:51<Gekz>allow elevated rails
11:51<Kloopy>Custom bridge heads is simply the tile at each end of a bridge is setup to allow points, signals, etc and act like a normal track piece, at any angle, isn't it?
11:52<Gekz>that would probably happen about the time subways are patched in, if ever
11:52<@peter1138>ideally custom bridge heads shouldn't exist
11:52<@Belugas>Zolorado, i think you might find a note reagarding using fonts on readme or even on wiki.
11:52<Lakie>Aren't they just the TTD fonts with extra characters? or are you refering to grf font support?
11:52<Lakie>But they are so useful, Peter.
11:53<Zolorado>[Belugas]: yeah, I should to write sthing into the config file... but I have no config file
11:53<@Belugas>have you ever run the game?
11:53<@peter1138>lakie, openttd supports any font that freetype supports
11:53<@Belugas>then you have one
11:53<Lakie>Zolorado: have you checked your documents?
11:53<@peter1138>Lakie: ah, but if you think differently, the concept does not need to exist
11:53<Lakie><Your Documents>/openttd is where it stores mine
11:54<Zolorado>oh, yes, thanks! :D
11:54<Zolorado>have a nice day
11:54<Lakie>Heh, true Peter...
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11:57*Lakie still likes some of his works for ttdpatch, even if they are 'substandard' to OpenTTD variants.
11:58<@Belugas>substandard? what do yo mean?
11:59<Lakie>Oh, that reminds me, any luck with that icon, Belugas?
11:59<Lakie>Um, thinks like clonetrain, twoccgui
11:59<@Belugas>have not worked on it, to be honest. Weekend has been a nightmare
11:59<Lakie>(The latter would be rejected do to the code using odd logic in it and rather random code)...
11:59<@Belugas>when spring comes in, my wife has this habit of wanting to clean the whole house from ground up...
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12:00<@Belugas>what's clonetrain?
12:00<Lakie>My mom wants to do that some times.
12:01<Lakie>Basically the same as the clonetrain function in ottd, just me from scratch ttdpatch version
12:01*Belugas wonders what is worst... a mom or a wife...
12:01<Lakie>Well, they do the same thing but the code is different.
12:01<@Belugas>ok :)
12:02<Lakie>Clonetrain hasa very simplistic approch to cloning and all the complexity is in the 'hooks'
12:02<@Belugas>wife. yes. Married for 17 years now
12:03*Lakie is only 20 so he's still got all that ahead of him (or not).
12:03<@Belugas>nice age...
12:04<@Belugas>best age i've been is 30s
12:04<@Belugas>loved it
12:04<@Belugas>well... from 30 to 35
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12:04<@Belugas>but let's not waste this lunch hour in chatting and use it for coding instead...
12:05<Lakie>Ok, sorry.
12:05<@Belugas>)although chatting is fun)
12:06<planetmaker>I really love the new station animations.
12:06*Lakie should really rewrite that 'crap' he calls his coursework to actually work better.
12:06<planetmaker>But is there a possibility to alter the loading / unloading speed of trains?
12:06<Lakie>Thats down to the grf, planetmaker
12:06<planetmaker>So that one could tweak it maybe such that the crane ones move down the train?
12:06<Lakie>Aciotn0 var 07 I believe.
12:07<planetmaker>No generic variable to multiply this speed with?
12:07<Lakie>Damn, I was right too, been a long time since I nfo coded...
12:07<Lakie>Not as far as I know, there might be one, Peter?
12:08<Ammler>no, needs to be set for every single VehID
12:08<planetmaker>^^ Just got this idea as I was watching a nicely eye-candied station :).
12:08<planetmaker>Anyway: two thumbs up for the recent improvements :)
12:08<Lakie>Really, I thought the animations on the stations jurked when I saw them (ttdpatch)
12:09<planetmaker>And thx for the info, Lakie & Ammler
12:09<Ammler>planetmaker: at the bottom for airplanes
12:10<@peter1138>clonetrain is like our clone vehicle, but for trains only :P
12:11<@peter1138>Lakie: they're lovely and smooth when you've got fastforward on
12:11<planetmaker>Ammler: yeah. But it is - IMO - a nice idea to have some overall speed control over this like, say, day-length patch on the game speed :)
12:11<Ammler>try with timetables
12:12<planetmaker>If you want to slow down everything there's no need to modify zillions of grf, just one global var...
12:12<planetmaker>THAT indeed might help :)
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12:12<Lakie>with fast forward, yes, but the actual animation at normal speed seems jurky. >_>
12:12<@peter1138>well, i have to say, suggestion denied :p
12:13<@peter1138>Lakie: in what way jerky, too discrete steps?
12:13<Lakie>and a little too much time between steps
12:13<Lakie>But thats the grf doing it not openttd.
12:14<@peter1138>well, there'd be a lot more tile layouts if it was smoother
12:14<@peter1138>and more cpu usage
12:14<Lakie>Hehe, true
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12:22<Roujin>ahahahaha xD
12:23<Roujin>i just read through what i missed while being afk
12:23<Roujin>this is so good xD
12:23<Roujin>[18:01] * @Belugas wonders what is worst... a mom or a wife...
12:23<Roujin>[18:01] <Lakie> Well, they do the same thing but the code is different.
12:24<Lakie>Heh, buy you took it out of context. ;)
12:24<@Bjarni>that's the usual way to make people look weird and funny
12:24<Roujin>it's much funnier like this xD
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12:44<@Bjarni>hello Gedemon
12:44<@Bjarni>and welcome
12:45<Gedemon>thanks :)
12:46<Roujin>hi there
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12:49<Gedemon>hi Roujin, nice work on new traffic lights new features
12:49<Roujin>thanks :)
12:50<Roujin>I planned to do multi tile consists from the beginning, but never got around to do it up until now :)
12:51<Roujin>and the pathfinder penalties, that was just a very nice idea, thanks for suggesting it ;)
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12:53<Ammler>possible to use it in town owned roads now?
12:54<Roujin>yes, as seperate patch option
12:54<Roujin>off by default, but if set to on, you're free to eyecandyfy your towns as you like ;)
12:54<Ammler>thats not only eyecandy
12:55<Ammler>well, you need rv crash support :-)
12:55<Roujin>go and make a patch :P *ducks*
12:55<Roujin>that's the standard "i don't want to do this" response ^^
12:56<Ammler>I don't believe, you don't want :-)
12:56<Roujin>no seriously, it was in the suggestions forums just shortly ago
12:57<Roujin>and some dev (belugas?) responded that computing train crashes already makes up a nice amount of cpu usage
12:57<Roujin>and that applying the same to roadvehs would probably be too much
12:58<@Belugas>yup i did
12:58<@Belugas>i strongly believe it would
12:58<@Belugas>although i do not have data to prove it, since i've not coded it
12:58<frosch123>well, but road vehicles do not drive through each other, so maybe everything needed is already done.
12:59<Roujin>they do not?
12:59<Roujin>look closer? oO
13:00<frosch123>they overtake
13:00<Roujin>okay, maybe they do not if they are going in the same direction - but at a crossing with left turning vehicles? iirc they don't really care about time-space continuum there or something
13:00<@Belugas>they can frosch123. stop a vehilcle that's ovetaking one, and see what happens with thre vehicle coming the other way
13:01<@Belugas>so you have two side by side vehiles pointing the same way, and you have another one goign toward the first stpped ones
13:01<Roujin>anyways, gotta go for a while.. see you guys later /afk
13:01<@Belugas>and ghosting :D
13:01<frosch123>but still: the overtaking test scans all roadvehicles on a tile
13:02<@Belugas>going on the same direction, i believe
13:02<@Belugas>although... i might very much be wrong...
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13:04<CIA-3>OpenTTD: frosch * r12820 /trunk/src/newgrf_callbacks.h: -Documentation: Mark callbacks as 8 or 15 bit in 'newgrf_callbacks.h'.
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13:05<@Belugas>heheh... looks like newgrf_callbacks is the only truely known reference of which callback results are 8 or 15 bits
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13:16<Ammler>is there a special reason for no snow in temperate or just lack of patch?
13:17<Roest>we didnt have a real winter in years
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13:18<@Belugas>lack of proper code, lack of patch, lack of interest, etc etc, Ammler
13:18<@Belugas>you want snow? why don't you use arctic? specifically made for that :D
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13:18<@Belugas>or if you want snow on temperate, use MB's alpine stuff
13:19<Ammler>Truelights patch for current trunk:
13:19<@Belugas>not fur current trunk
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13:19<@Belugas>for ottmachin chose of the day
13:20<Ammler>I do not like the brown ground
13:20<@Belugas>it was NEVER made to get it in trunk
13:20<Ammler>and MBs grf can't be used with other sets.
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13:21<@Belugas>too bad...
13:21<@peter1138>make a grf then
13:21<Ammler>well, there are many GRFs but without support from OTTD
13:21<@Belugas>hein? you mean... WORKING ????
13:22<@peter1138>Belugas: seems to be too much effort
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13:23<@peter1138>it's far easier to do nothing except whine
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13:25<@Belugas>[13:20] <Ammler> well, there are many GRFs but without support from OTTD <-- maybe they are badly written? or else?
13:25<Ammler>almost all Canada sets
13:26<@Belugas>nice... would you be kind enough to make a list, where to get them and why thety fail to work?
13:26<@Belugas>who knows... maybe it might be helfull?
13:27<Ammler>they need snow in temperate
13:27<Ammler>it wokrs nice with the patch
13:28<Ammler>not TTDPatch :-), there too, but I mean the diff
13:28<Lakie>I know, I remember you saying about it a few days back after I noticed OpenTTD doesn't support it in its trunk.
13:29<Ammler>as I updated the patch to current trunk, some parts seems already be changed to support it...
13:31<@Belugas>ho... those grfs are based on a feature that is not in trunk ad no one is interested to implement in the dev team?
13:32<@Belugas>no wonder...
13:33<@Belugas>no, as far as i;m aware, no work at all is been done to support snow line in temperate
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13:36<Lakie>Manage to get much coding done over the lunch break?
13:36<@Belugas>two lines, a few documentation, but yes, i think i've managed to reach my goal :)
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13:58<CIA-3>OpenTTD: glx * r12821 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/squirrel_export.awk: [NoAI] -Fix: some awk implementation fail to understand eol other than \n
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14:10<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r12822 /branches/noai/src/squirrel_class.hpp: [NoAI] -Fix: minor documentation typo
14:11*peter1138 @ home
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14:16<sdtr443w>On Linux shouldn't ./configure --CFLAGS=-g get me debugging symbols? I don't seem to get them.
14:18<@peter1138>./configure --enable-debug=1 will do it
14:18<@peter1138>./configure CFLAGS=-g probably will too... dunno
14:20<sdtr443w>I saw enable-debug. I'm doing a rebuild now...
14:22<sdtr443w>Would that put the binary in the bin directory when make finishes, or should I run out of objs/debug?
14:22<sdtr443w>n/m looks like I got symbols now
14:22<sdtr443w>Now I can figure out what yapf is thinking
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14:23<Lakie>With debug builds, is it correct that the console that opens with OpenTTD should be blank?
14:23<Lakie>(Windows OS)
14:26<@peter1138>yes, it goes bin :)
14:26<@peter1138>sdtr443w: yapf? good luck ;)
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14:26<@peter1138>Lakie: on debug builds? it's blank until message is output, i guess...?
14:26<sdtr443w>Yeah I know--I said that with some nonchalance haha
14:26*peter1138 replies the midi question with suitable exactness...
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14:27<Roest>peter1138: can you answer my question with suitable detailness?
14:27<Wolf01>today I did a strange thing on VB: I used a constant on the select case statement, and a variable for each case...
14:27<Lakie>midi is dieing?
14:28<Wolf01>midi is immortal
14:28<@peter1138>Lakie: midi won't die as long as we have
14:29<Lakie>I disabled that a long time ago.
14:29<Lakie>on TTD -> music -> off
14:30<@peter1138>Roest: no, as i see no question
14:30<@peter1138>Lakie: heretic!
14:31<@peter1138>it sounds a bit naff through fluidsynth
14:31<@peter1138>but that's because it has 150MB of sound fonts
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14:31<Fingon>Lakie : me too :p i *hope* most people did, that music gets sooo old after hours of playing
14:32<Lakie>Not old, causes the game to jurk as it loads the file into memor to play
14:32<Lakie>and longer map loading times
14:32<@peter1138>you must have a very slow system for loading a 50KB file to slow things down
14:33<Lakie>My system is designed for high performance gaming
14:33<Lakie>Quite the oppisite, in TTDpatch it lagged quite a bit, not sure why, but it was enough for me to perminantly stop it
14:33<cjk>Where would extra data that is downloaded upon joining an internet game be stored?
14:34<@peter1138>cjk, what sort of extra data?
14:34<cjk>dunno, sometimes when joining a game there's like tens to hundred of Ks of downloaded daata. If that's just the map, ok :)
14:35<Roest>it's just the map
14:35<Roest>and gamestate
14:35<@peter1138>it's just a savegame
14:36<cjk>good to know
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14:39<cjk>why is it that Electrified Rail is not available in the Arctic climate?
14:40<cjk>is it just that way?
14:40<DaleStan>Because there are no electrified trains in Arctic.
14:42<Lakie>Nice simple solution, use a grf
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15:11<cjk>kinda funny to see airplanes going into "Service mode" while in flight...
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15:12<@Bjarni>better servicemode than breakdown
15:12<@Bjarni>you know it would be funny if they didn't move for the duration of the breakdown
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15:12<cjk>or rather crashing :)
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15:13<Patrick`_>Bjarni: didn't they, um, do that once?
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15:27<+glx>square here too
15:28<cjk>say what?
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15:44<ln>remember a full Unicode font is highly recommended on this channel.
15:44<+glx>arial unicode is the most complete I have :)
15:44<cjk>efont-unicode ftw
15:44<cjk>or whatever happens to run inside a term emu by default
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15:51<cjk>#if defined(_MSC_VER) && _MSC_VER >= 1400 /* VStudio 2005 is stupid! */
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15:55<+glx>cjk: what's wrong with this line?
15:56<cjk>just funny to see
16:00<teeg>hm. fascinating. defining a template inside a class crashes the compiler for vs2008.
16:00<teeg>(gcc complains that it's invalid, as it should)
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16:07<cjk> -- what is a one-tile bridge? bridges are usually 2 at least (including ramps), though 0 if not including ramps
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16:15<Patrick`_>with PBI or ECS, if I don't transport the product of a secondary/tertiary industry, obviously I've lost it
16:15<Patrick`_>but what about places that produce two products of which I transport 1, is the other one just lost?
16:15<Patrick`_>or does the factory know what's going to get transported
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16:28<Digitalfox>Finally after almost 4 years Windows XP SP3 is released.. :p No more hundreds of updates download :)
16:29<@peter1138>cjk: that looks like false information... speed limit is not based on length anyway...
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16:33<CIA-3>OpenTTD: glx * r12823 /branches/noai/ (5 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Add: added AICompany::(G|S)etAutoRenew(Status|Months|Money)
16:34<cjk>peter1138: the info is correct per se; you can only build girder steel bridges (251 km/h) when they are too short
16:34<cjk>bad for highspeed maglev trains
16:35<@peter1138>... it's not correct at all
16:36<cjk>what is correct?
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16:51<CIA-3>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12824 /trunk/src/ (9 files): -Codechange: Standardise routines for drawing vehicle images, using correct types and less duplication.
16:53<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r12825 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_company.hpp: [NoAI] -Fix r12823: minor documentation clearup
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17:16<CIA-3>OpenTTD: glx * r12826 /branches/noai/ (80 files in 5 dirs): [NoAI] -Sync: with trunk r12780:12824
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18:14<CIA-3>OpenTTD: Darkvater * r12827 /extra/website/ (8 files in 3 dirs): [Website] -Add multilanguage support for multiple languages (EN,NL currently) (most probably by Rubidium)
18:14<Digitalfox>WOW Darkvater is back =0
18:15<Rubidium>or... Darkvater is the default 'user' on the webserver
18:15<Digitalfox>oh :(
18:15<CIA-3>OpenTTD: Darkvater * r12828 /extra/website/ (includes/ screens.php templates/nightly.tpl): [Website] -Codechange: Use strftime() instead of gmdate (Rubidium I'd guess)
18:17<CIA-3>OpenTTD: Darkvater * r12829 /extra/website/ (5 files in 3 dirs): [Website] -Codechange: Some minor updates (year, hoster link, etc.)
18:17<CIA-3>OpenTTD: Darkvater * r12830 /extra/website/post.php: [Website] -Fix: Content did not update when added/edited because wrong cache was cleared
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18:18<CIA-3>OpenTTD: Darkvater * r12831 /extra/website/default.php5: [Website] -Fix: Also get language data when the user is logged-in (invisible edit buttons, etc.)
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18:20<CIA-3>OpenTTD: Darkvater * r12832 /extra/website/languages/ (. en_US.php nl_NL.php): [Website] -Add EN and NL language files (Rubidium I'd guess)
18:22<Ammler>Rubidium: you might also fix the rev link here: :-)
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18:23<CIA-3>OpenTTD: Darkvater * r12833 /extra/website/ (8 files in 3 dirs): [Website] -Codechange: set native eol-style on missing files
18:23<Rubidium>I've not touched it in a long time
18:23<Rubidium>and all the guessings and probablies in the above are wrong
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18:25*SmatZ wonders who Darkvater is (if it is not really Darkvater)
18:27<Dominik>btw the redirection of is wrong
18:27<SmatZ>it is
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18:37<Eddi|zuHause3>i hate sourceforge
18:38<Prof_Frink>Use Lunchbox!
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18:41<Eddi|zuHause3>they don't manage to display the damn site properly in konqueror
18:41<Volley>which site?
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18:44<Volley>sourceforge? hmm ... never noticed a problem ...
18:44<@Bjarni> <--- I just found a "different" video. This is a guy on a bike chasing a train while filming it
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18:47<Eddi|zuHause3>offtopic youtube link!! kill him!!
18:47<Eddi|zuHause3>Volley: did you try sourceforge in konqueror?
18:48<Volley>ay... ok - i now found a misplaced "new" ...
18:48<Eddi|zuHause3>did you try to download anything?
18:48<Volley>i regularily download from sf... yeah ... not right now tough ... just a sec ...
18:48<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r12834 /extra/website/post.php:
18:48<CIA-3>OpenTTD: [Website] -Fix r12830: clear ALL language files when posting, not only the current language you are logged in with
18:48<CIA-3>OpenTTD: -Note: Darkvater guess'd wrong, all language changes are by me, and very very broken (maybe it shouldn't have been committed ;))
18:48<Eddi|zuHause3>Bjarni: you said the train drives what... 25km/h?
18:49<@Bjarni>15 km/h
18:50<Eddi|zuHause3>hm, i already wondered... the guy on the bike can't be driving that fast while filming
18:50<SmatZ>it moves really slow, not like any ICE
18:50<@Bjarni>it's the speed limit of the tracks
18:50<@Bjarni>not the train
18:50<Volley>Eddi|zuHause3: just tried to download something from, both firefox and konqueror... i didn't notice any obvious difference
18:50<@Bjarni>the train can go 120 km/h
18:50<SmatZ>250km/h on a bike...
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18:51<@Bjarni> <--- whoa... somebody recorded the train I drove yesterday... it wasn't recorded yesterday so I'm not there but still
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18:52<Volley>Eddi|zuHause3: either some issue which is fixed in my version, oder ... i'm just too blind :)
18:54<Eddi|zuHause3>Volley: when i hover over a package in konqueror, it shows a "shownotes" link, when i hover over that same position in firefox, it shows the "download" link
18:55<@Bjarni>oh something funny happened yesterday... there was a guy with a video camera who wanted to record a video kind of like that but he was just in front of a red signal so we just slowed down to a crawl (like 5 km/h) and closed in slowly until we came to a complete stop right in front of him
18:55<@Bjarni>I didn't look like he expected that to happen xD
18:55<SmatZ>trams here are allowed to go 60km/h, but then it may end like this or this
18:55<Eddi|zuHause3>SmatZ: trams have better brakes
18:56<@Bjarni>that ended up being a long video
18:56<Eddi|zuHause3>or are lighter
18:56<Eddi|zuHause3>so they have shorter braking distance
18:56<@Bjarni>SmatZ: you tried driving?
18:57<SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause3: I don't know - but sure buses have even shorter braking distance
18:57<SmatZ>Bjarni: :-) no
18:57<Eddi|zuHause3>i haven't heard of a heavy tram accident around here in quite a long time
18:57<Eddi|zuHause3>usually "just" a tram hitting a car
18:57<@Bjarni>those 15 km/h is set to match the brakes of the trains from the 60's. Now they are sold to Poland and the new ones might push the speed limit up while keeping the same brake distance
18:58<Eddi|zuHause3>where "tram 1:0 car" is the usual outcome
18:58<@Bjarni>I think it would be 25 km/h
18:58<SmatZ>poor Poland :-x
18:58<Eddi|zuHause3>but they took the tram out of the roads in most dangerous places now
18:58<Eddi|zuHause3>and put up traffic lights
18:59<@Bjarni>even though some of the trains were 40 years old they were still in good condition and it's not everybody who wanted to let them go
18:59<Eddi|zuHause3>that turn red when a tram approaches
18:59<@Bjarni>sounds reasonable
18:59<@Bjarni>also because then trams can get though traffic faster
19:00<@Bjarni>trams are like the Danish metro: a small imitation of a train
19:00<@Bjarni>real trains are somewhat different
19:00<SmatZ>and trams can't turn...
19:01<Eddi|zuHause3>most new trams here can go backwards
19:01<@Bjarni>"ARE YOU COMPARING OUR LOCOMOTIVE TO A TRAM????" <--- I actually heard that once
19:01<Eddi|zuHause3>i have too many windows open
19:01<@Bjarni>as a reply to one guy who talked about how trams can be repaired and asked if the locomotive could be fixed the same way
19:01<Eddi|zuHause3>and i'm not even in windows
19:01<@Bjarni>Eddi|zuHause3: sounds windy and cold
19:02<Eddi|zuHause3>gnah... why can't this configure just list _ALL_ missing packages...
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19:02<Eddi|zuHause3>no, it must list them one at a time, and start the test from the beginning each time
19:02<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r12835 /extra/website/templates/nightly.tpl: [Website] -Fix: don't link to, as it is no longer in use (glx)
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19:03<Eddi|zuHause3>if is not used anymore, what is used instead?
19:03<@Bjarni>I once visited a guy (IT student) and he was in the middle of a project. He wanted to see how many windows he could open before he filled up his memory with windows
19:03<@Bjarni>it was in the 90's
19:03<SmatZ>I use for SVN syncing
19:04<@Bjarni>you can actually open a whole lot of windows on a 8 mb system (specially if the system is designed to use max 2 mb)
19:04<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12836 /trunk/src/unix.cpp: -Fix: SunOS non-dedicated server compilation.
19:04<+glx> is still used, but not for browsing
19:04<@Bjarni>I started to wonder where I should make future checkouts from
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19:08<@Bjarni>goodnight channel
19:08<Eddi|zuHause3>good night, johnboy
19:09<@Bjarni>who is johnboy?
19:11<Tefad>heh, i grew up near where the waltons was created
19:11<Tefad>when i was in highschool in band, i performed at one of the museum openings (they have open/closed seasons)
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19:14<Eddi|zuHause3>gnah, i hate compiling on my own
19:15<Eddi|zuHause3>it always demands two dozens of *-devel packages to be installed
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19:37<sdtr443w>I'm trying to step through yapf using DDD and I'm getting lost
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19:38<Eddi|zuHause3>hence "good luck" :p
19:38<sdtr443w>It makes the slightest more sense than the pathfind source in the root source tree, but just barely
19:39<sdtr443w>I'm not too use to DDD either, so it feels like it's skipping around too much when I step
19:39<Eddi|zuHause3>what exactly are you trying to do anyway?
19:39<sdtr443w>If I had two depots next to each other I would want them to be considered in a route
19:40<sdtr443w>Say, if I had two depots back-to-back, a train would be able to go in one and exit the other
19:40<Eddi|zuHause3>there must be like a "follow track" routine
19:40<Eddi|zuHause3>that decides in which directions to continue
19:40<sdtr443w>Yeah there is something like that
19:40<sdtr443w>Might be called that too
19:41<sdtr443w>I'm trying to figure out where I saw it in there though so I was about to do another run
19:41<Eddi|zuHause3>that is pretty much the only place you should look for
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19:42<sdtr443w>It seems like the title screen doesn't use yapf; my breakpoints never trigger there
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19:43<Eddi|zuHause3>the title screen is way older than yapf
19:46<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause3: so is your mum
19:46<Eddi|zuHause3>that is indeed true
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20:04<sdtr443w>ok something is odd with my debugger. I have a print statement in yapf's CanEnterNewTile() function that is getting printed, yet a breakpoint in there isn't being reached :(
20:05<sdtr443w>I wonder if I have to disable optimizations or somesuch.
20:05<sdtr443w>It would explain how stepping around is so erratic.
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20:15<+glx>use --enable-debug=3
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---Logclosed Tue Apr 22 00:00:25 2008