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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-05-28

---Logopened Wed May 28 00:00:18 2008
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02:31<CIA-3>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r13305 /trunk/src/misc_gui.cpp: -Fix (r13039): Confirmation window sent both yes and no answers instead of just yes.
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03:45<dih> /* Don't give an equal sign to list items that don't have a parameter */
03:45<dih>that aint ini style conform is it now!
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04:03<@peter1138>dih, shut up
04:06<@peter1138>quite alright
04:06<@peter1138>notice it's not called "openttd.ini"
04:06<dih>i was more or less serious about it, because it stops other apps (perhaps in another language) to parse the ini file (when using standard or built in ini parsers)
04:07<dih>static bool ini_save(const char *filename, IniFile *ini)
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04:08<dih>peter1138: you wanna rather change all methods to say cfg_something?
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04:08<@peter1138>get. out. of. my. head.
04:08<dih>knock knock
04:09*dih hides
04:09<Mchl>I feel great disturbance in the force...
04:14<dih>peter1138: i will appologise as i mean no annoyance
04:15<dih>and eh... thanks for explaining!
04:17*peter1138 is actually concentrating on work stuff :p
04:18<Rubidium>#define Ini somethatthatlookslikeIni
04:19<Rubidium>#define ini somethatthatlookslikeini
04:19<Rubidium>problem solved...
04:19<dih>thanks for that Rubidium
04:21<dih>what is wrong about making it ini standard? (just so i may understand where the issue is)
04:29<Ammler>dih: you could remove everything and just leave the line fprintf(f, " = %s\n", item->value);, can't you
04:30<dih>shh.... dont make it simpler than it already is, people dont seem to like it around here :-P
04:31<dih>esp. as that is really the _only_ thing that needed dooing, as loading the ini file with = at the end of a line is no issue IIRC
04:33*peter1138 is, of course, not doing it, purely because of the amount of protesting.
04:34<dih>peter1138: dont blame you :-D
04:42<dih>you know what - forget it, i'll just write my own parser :-P
04:47<Ammler>dih: don't give up :P
04:48<Ammler>on the other side, the file is called .cfg, not .ini
04:52*planetmaker ponders on the actual difference between an ini and a config in terms of usage...
04:53*planetmaker also ponders what's the big deal as most people care $%§ about whether there's a = in the cfg or not and those with a script would need it...
04:54<dih>pm: forget it
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05:05<Mchl>now... shall I ask, why OpenTTD config file is not in XML?
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05:06<Rubidium>because XML sucks
05:06<Rubidium>and then we would require even more dependencies
05:06<Rubidium>which are more than likely not available on all platforms
05:07<Mchl>I was just joking :P
05:08<Mchl>could as well ask: 'hey, JSON would be nice for config file' :D
05:08<dih>yes - but if it were xml and one tag was not closed.......
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05:12<Ammler>Mchl: the dicsussion is not about changing the format, just about make it standard with a small change.
05:12<@peter1138>amavisd sucks for memory usage
05:12<@peter1138>it must do something that upsets shared memory, cos each one is 70MB resident
05:13<dih>that sucks :-P
05:13<dih>is that the old or the "new" one?
05:14<@peter1138>fortunately the machine has a gig of spam
05:14<@peter1138>and two cpus
05:14<@peter1138>heh, athlon mps... how quaint
05:15<dih>you could have a look at the av stuff from
05:15<dih>i am not sure it's easy to implement in mail things
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05:15<dih>but could be worth a try
05:15<@peter1138>well amavisd is just a email -> av gateway thing
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05:16<@peter1138>it does have spamassassin loaded in it though
05:22<Ammler>peter1138: why did I guess, you are german?
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05:23<dih>Ammler: you did not guess, you falsely assumed :-P
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05:33<@peter1138>no idea
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06:01<dih>aronal &
06:02<dih>wird nie alt (sorry ln)
06:02<Ammler>bored dih?
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06:30<CIA-3>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r13306 /trunk/src/ (autoreplace_gui.cpp build_vehicle_gui.cpp): -Fix (r8362): Pass engine list by pointer instead of making a copy of it.
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06:45<k-man>do i have to do something special to enable trams?
06:46<dih>load a grf
06:46<dih>nice idea would be to get the #openttdcoop grf pack
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06:51<k-man>dih, ok
06:52<k-man>what do i do with the grf pack?
06:52<dih>you did not read the page where you can download the grf pack from, did you
06:53<dih>nor did you have a look at the openttd readme file
06:53<dih>or as others like calling it, the (dont)readme file
06:54<dih>hylje: yes - that would probably do the trick
06:55*dih is making a mirror of :-P
06:56<hylje>for what reason
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06:58<dih>for one thing, to avoid being blocked due to the websvn
06:59<dih>hello Bjarni
06:59<@Bjarni>hello dih
07:03<Mchl>oh my... which svn should I use.... so many options... :P
07:07<@Bjarni>use the one that will give you the source of the trunk
07:07<@Bjarni>so you can edit it and make diff files
07:07<hylje>or alternatively use the various DVCSes provided (hg and git) and commit away
07:08<dih>does anybody know the stats gets out of the google adsense?
07:10<dih>did not say i was going to make the mirror accessible :-P
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07:18<Mchl>So I'll use one which is accessible :P
07:20<Mchl>man, I completly lost my adsense account data...
07:21<dih>well - i could make it accessible
07:21<Mchl>I had like 20$ there...
07:21<dih>perhaps it could lift load from openttd
07:21<dih>Mchl: trallallallalla
07:22<Mchl>it's all because they didn't let me adsense and adwords on same google account...
07:22<dih>why would you want to add adwords?
07:23<Mchl>I got a free coupon :P
07:23<Mchl>is load on that high, it would need a mirror?
07:25<Rubidium>not that I'm aware of
07:25<Mchl>I never had any problems connectiong to it
07:25<dih>well - TB told me to make a mirror for the websvn rather than accessing the repository direclty each time
07:26<Mchl>are there any stats as to how many checkouts per day (hour/minute/second/century) are there?
07:26<@peter1138>it would be high with websvn accessing it
07:26<@peter1138>that's the thing :)
07:27<Mchl>yeah... I suppose so...
07:27<Rubidium>well... trac has used way way too many resources as websvn
07:27<Mchl>makes sense
07:27<Rubidium>but removing trac solved all performance issues
07:27<dih>trac was running standalone
07:27*Lakie checks it out only just before he wants to play it (which is around every week, however I'd imagine at the speed things change, quite a lot)?
07:28<dih>i never had issues running trac through apache2
07:28<dih>and TB said that access to older revs is intence too
07:29<Lakie>Thats also quite likely.
07:30<@peter1138>do you svn up or check out the complete thing? heh
07:30<Lakie>Just svn update.
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07:30<Lakie>Doing the whole thing takes too long.
07:33<@peter1138>good ;)
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07:36<dih>rev 6500 :-)
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07:44<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: help [<plugin>] [<command>]
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07:48<Mchl>now, how do you get command list? :P
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07:49<Rubidium>Mchl: you don't
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07:49<Mchl>as I expected :D
07:51<Mchl>would probably flood the channel :)
07:54*Lakie likes the way that the cheat window hot key is automatically hooked by his ATi drivers.
07:54<Lakie>Heh, not that I've used it though.
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07:55<Mchl>ATi drivers stole made one letter unaccessible in my Vista system...
07:55<dih>a command LIST ?
07:56<CIA-3>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r13307 /trunk/ (8 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: Separate VehicleList and its two functions so only the 3 users include it, reducing dependencies on misc/smallvec.h
07:56<CIA-3>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r13308 /trunk/projects/ (openttd_vs80.vcproj openttd_vs90.vcproj): -Fix (r13307): projects/generate...
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07:57*Lakie looks it up
07:58<@peter1138>auto-sizing array, basically
07:58<Lakie>I see.
07:59<Lakie>So basically like the std::vector.
07:59<Rubidium>but better
07:59<@peter1138>yeah, but slightly different, and we know what's in it ;)
07:59<@peter1138>and we know the memory allocation policy
08:00<Noldo>how is it better?
08:00<Rubidium>no need to memcpy structs when adding it to the vector
08:00<Rubidium>i.e. half the amount of write actions to memory
08:02<@peter1138>important as the viewport drawer uses it
08:03<Lakie>I see, so a more optimised for perpose one, nice.
08:04<@DorpsGek>dih: Ctcp, Filter, Format, Math, Misc, OpenTTD, Scheduler, Seen, Topic, WT2, and XMLRPC
08:06<@peter1138>although we've ended up using it in other places too where a std::vector would probably be okay
08:06<@peter1138>even then, knowing the allocation policy is nice
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08:15<Mchl>so there is one...
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09:06<echinos>I have a savegame that keeps crashing on me - if I start from command line, it says "Error: !Disconnecting train
09:09<+glx>savegame from a broken ottd version?
09:10<echinos>no, stable release
09:11<echinos>the savegame was started on the same install of openttd
09:11<Rubidium>changed newgrfs
09:11<echinos>I have 2 installed, but I haven't changed them
09:12<echinos>It's not a huge deal, I was mostly done that game anyway
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09:17<Chicago_Rail_Authority>Off Topic: Any suggestions on good websites for HDTV reviews?
09:17<Chicago_Rail_Authority>Trying to read up on LED DLPs
09:18<dih>german or english?
09:18<Chicago_Rail_Authority>I'd prefer english, but can read some Deutsch.
09:20<Chicago_Rail_Authority>dih: Was assuming your Q was for me, apologies if it was not.
09:21<dih>search for stiftung waren test ;-)
09:24<Chicago_Rail_Authority>dih: Thanks
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09:51<Sacro>Touqen: i'm in many places
09:51<Touqen>I noticed.
09:51<Touqen>You're like God or something.
09:52<Forked>oh thats where he is hiding
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09:56*peter1138 has found out how to make vista usable
09:56<dih>by not installing it?
09:57<@peter1138>apart from that
09:57<@peter1138>switched to windows classic theem ;)
09:57<dih>i always do that :-P
09:57<dih>start playing about with office 2007
09:57<+glx>hehe aero is a ressource eater
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10:01<@peter1138>i have openoffice installed, not ms office
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10:29<dih>peter1138: thing with ms office 2007 is, if you were able of using any previous version of office, you will fail with office 2007
10:31<@peter1138>it's gay
10:31<@peter1138>i tried it
10:32<@peter1138>actually it's not gay
10:32<@peter1138>because gay is fine
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10:32<@peter1138>it's like a paedophile in the software world
10:33<Sacro>Office Jonathon King edition?
10:36<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13309 /trunk/src/settings.cpp: -Fix: the difficulty settings from the savegame would be reset by the ones of the intro game.
10:37<dih>peter1138: it offends little kids?
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10:39<Rubidium>dih: no it molests them...
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10:40<dih>peter1138: you feel molested by ms office 2007
10:42<@peter1138>god yes
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10:47*Belugas avoids from now on to mix god and dih on the same context...
10:47<dih>peter1138: you may call me dih :-D
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10:48<dih>Belugas: 'from now on' what triggered it?
10:48<Sacro>or one of his many alteregos
10:49<@Belugas>just realizing it ;)
10:49<@Belugas>and seen how long we can discuss on that matter...
10:51<Draakon>another crash
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10:59*Hendikins yawns, doing the overnight shift at this station is *boring*
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11:18*Hendikins installs all the bits and pieces so he can play openttd at work
11:18<@Belugas>what a genius this Trent Reznor guy is... IN CRE DI BLE
11:20<SmatZ>"Trent Reznor" ?
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11:22<Hendikins>dragonhorseboy: I say openttd is a great way to pass the time when I'm doing back shift at a small railway station
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11:24<@Belugas>SmatZ, better known as Nine Inch Nails :)
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11:25<@Belugas>try coding for it, Hendikins...
11:25<@Belugas>loooong hours of pure fun!
11:27<dragonhorseboy>hendikins very funny :p
11:27<Hendikins>Belugas: Er, no. This is why I work for the railways.
11:28<Sacro>which railway?
11:28<Hendikins>dragonhorseboy: I'm dead serious. What else am I going to do at 1:30am?
11:28<Hendikins>Sacro: CityRail
11:28<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r13310 /trunk/src/ (misc_gui.cpp osk_gui.cpp): -Fix: invalidate OSK when parent editbox changes (from keyboard)
11:29<Hendikins>Sacro: See
11:29<Sacro>Hendikins: i know of it
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11:32<Hendikins>Sacro: I could alternatively say "Rail Corporation New South Wales", however my duties fall completely within CityRail station operations.
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11:33<Hendikins>The only reason this particular station is staffed 24/7 is the 5 sets of points in close proximity to it.
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11:35<Hendikins>hylje: They're points in Australian English.
11:35<Hendikins>Just like it is a railway, not a railroad.
11:36<@peter1138>and english english
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11:36<Sacro>and international english
11:37<Hendikins>And just remember, there's three ways: the right way, the wrong way and the railway.
11:37<dih>british english ftw
11:37<dih>with a mug of hot tea and a drop of milk
11:38<Hendikins>And a couple of biscuits.
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11:39<Hendikins>I actually don't mind this particular station.
11:39<Hendikins>It just gets a bit boring if I'm stuck doing 10 back shifts in a row
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11:48<Eddi|zuHause2>* Hendikins yawns, doing the overnight shift at this station is *boring* <- well, if you were on the right side of the world, it would be the dayshift :p
11:49<Eddi|zuHause2>it's so weird... lately i have a ghost in my keyboard
11:50<Eddi|zuHause2>every now and then, there are random keypresses even though i did not touch anything
11:50<Hendikins>Eddi|zuHause2: I am on the right side of the world. I live in the best country there is :P
11:50<Eddi|zuHause2>yeah, you have everything reversed, even "right" and "best" ;)
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11:52<Hendikins>You're just scared of our deadly wildlife :P
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11:53<Eddi|zuHause2>hey, we had a living wild bear a few years ago
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11:54<Eddi|zuHause2>but the pussies were too afraid, so they shot him
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12:02<@Belugas>i'll send my "pussy" over there... will make just a bite out of that bear...
12:04<Eddi|zuHause2>i am certain now... he only quits to show off his quitmessage...
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12:16<a1270>Eddi|zuHause2, actually i was watching wireshark and saw i wasn't connected to here via ssl.
12:16*a1270 has no life
12:20*Belugas has too much of it, and sends a few to a1270
12:20<@peter1138>what the hell is a life?
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12:29<Mchl>a magazine apparently
12:30-!-thgergo [] has joined #openttd
12:30<Mchl>available at
12:30-!-Digitalfox [] has joined #openttd
12:32<Digitalfox>Great Foxmarks finally support Firefox 3 =0 Now I can see what all the noise about FF3 is =0
12:33<SmatZ>do Digitalmarks support Digitalfox ?
12:33<Digitalfox>SmatZ lol =0
12:34<Mchl>and Firebug 1.2.0 b1 also works fine at last
12:34-!-Brianetta [] has quit [Quit: Tschüß]
12:35<Digitalfox>It's just nice to see the extensions finally working
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12:35<Sacro>god dmanit
12:35<Sacro>i seem to be capitalising like a german
12:36<Mchl>do You?
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12:42<dih><peter1138> [18:20:55] what the hell is a life? <-- as soon as you start grunting at someone wanting an = sign at the end of a apparently not ini file
12:42<dih>"things" without a life just "work"
12:42<Sacro>Mchl: Yes, I Do
12:44<Eddi|zuHause2><Mchl> do You? <- very subtile ;)
12:45<CIA-3>OpenTTD: skidd13 * r13311 /trunk/src/ (industry_gui.cpp lang/english.txt):
12:45<CIA-3>OpenTTD: -Codechange: Use GUIList for the industry directory window
12:45<CIA-3>OpenTTD: -Codechange: Replaced the four sort buttons by a dropdown
12:45<CIA-3>OpenTTD: -Codechange: Reduced the default window size
12:46<Eddi|zuHause2>german word is "subtil"... it's not my fault that the english people can't write corretcly ;)
12:46<Sacro>subtle :p
12:47<@Belugas>[12:40] <dih> "things" without a life just "work" <-- "devs" without a life just "dev"
12:50<Hendikins>Hrm. I think my #1 problem playing ottd is that I try to be too elegant.
12:51<CIA-3>OpenTTD: skidd13 * r13312 /trunk/src/lang/ (38 files in 2 dirs): -Update: apply english.txt changes from r13311 to other languages
12:51<Eddi|zuHause2>Hendikins: i know that problem.
12:51<Eddi|zuHause2>PBS helps a great deal ;)
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12:53<Hendikins>Nothing wrong with being elegant, but it is easy to overdo it
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12:58<@Belugas>dih, can you turn off you svn stuff for a moment please?
12:59<@Belugas>ping dih
12:59<@Belugas>ping dih
12:59<@Belugas>ping dih
12:59<Ammler>make[1]: *** No rule to make target `/home/ottdc/svn-trunk/src/yapf/yapf_ship.cpp', needed by `yapf/yapf_ship.d'. Stop
12:59<@Belugas>heheh and who said "you silent bunch" yesterday? the silent one!
13:00<Eddi|zuHause2>i kill you!
13:00<Ammler>Belugas: ban the ip :-)
13:01<Eddi|zuHause2>i go on strike!
13:01<Eddi|zuHause2>i won't play any openttd until YAPP is in trunk
13:01<Ammler>then your strike is not that long
13:02<Eddi|zuHause2>it does not need to be, as long as it fulfils the purpose ;)
13:02<Ammler>maybe you should also not eat at that time
13:03<@Belugas>Eddi|zuHause2 :
13:04*Forked is a big fan of the Care Factory
13:04<Eddi|zuHause2>which brings me back to the above lines :p
13:04<Eddi|zuHause2>this is a hell of a "backfire" :p
13:06*hylje sends a care pack to Forked
13:06<Ammler>[18:59] <Ammler> make[1]: *** No rule to make target `/home/ottdc/svn-trunk/src/yapf/yapf_ship.cpp', needed by `yapf/yapf_ship.d'. Stop <-- did I make something wrong here?
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13:07<@Belugas>who knows what you did?
13:08<Ammler>just svn up and ./configure && make
13:08<Mchl>did you run configure?
13:08<Mchl>then I've no idea
13:08<SmatZ>did you run make?
13:08<CIA-3>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r13313 /trunk/src/autoreplace_gui.cpp: -Fix-ish (r13306): List was copied in another place the autoreplace gui...
13:09<SmatZ>Ammler: works for me
13:10<SmatZ>strange, maybe make clean first?
13:11<Ammler>SmatZ: seems to work now
13:11<Ammler>what does make clean?
13:11<Touqen>it gets rid of the intermediate files
13:11<SmatZ>removes all compiled files
13:11<Ammler>is that because I stopped make before it was finished the first time
13:12<Ammler>hmm, but I did that not the first time
13:12<Ammler>I just forget that I need to enable dedicated mode on my VPS
13:13<Eddi|zuHause2>why not put that in the ./configure ?
13:13<SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause2: make clean?
13:13<Eddi|zuHause2>or why ./configure at all after svn up?
13:14<Eddi|zuHause2>./configure is only needed once
13:14<Ammler>yeah, I know
13:14<Ammler>but I configured without dedicated
13:14<Eddi|zuHause2>SmatZ: no, enable dedicated
13:14<Eddi|zuHause2>Ammler: it will automattically configure dedicated if you uninstall sdl :)
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13:15<@peter1138>no it won't
13:15<Ammler>I have sdl there to use it with ssh -x
13:15<Eddi|zuHause2>Ammler: sdl-devel
13:16<Ammler>well, myself has no idea aobut it at all, dih did that :-)
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13:21<Ammler>autopilot fails after update to the new ini format too :(
13:23<@Belugas>don't write ini format then :)
13:25<@peter1138>it's a cfg format ;)
13:25<Ammler>well, I meant the new cfg, maybe it is something else...
13:26<@Belugas>yeah, a cfg format is different than an ini one :)
13:28<Ammler>somone idea what the problem could be?
13:28<Ammler>ottdc@mozart:~/svn-nightly/bin> ./autopilot.tcl
13:28<Ammler>Loading IRC module
13:28<Ammler>Connected to IRC server
13:28<Ammler>Autopilot engaged
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13:29<Ammler>Starting new game named 'Ammler's Test'
13:29<Ammler>Landscape is
13:29<Ammler>too few arguments for math function
13:29<Ammler> while executing
13:29<Ammler>"expr (pow(2,[get_setting patches map_y]))"
13:29<Ammler> invoked from within
13:29<Ammler>"if { [ string equal "$arg1" "load" ] } {
13:29<Ammler> if { [ string length $arg2 ] > 0 } {
13:29<Ammler> set commandline "$openttd -c $inifilename -D -g $arg2"
13:29<Ammler> ds..."
13:29<Ammler>oh sorry
13:29<Ammler>i liked to post that:
13:29<Rubidium>well... learn Autopilot the new format
13:29<CIA-3>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r13314 /trunk/src/ (4 files): -Codechange: Switch EngineList from std::vector to GUIList
13:29<Ammler>Rubidium: any idea, what did change for autopilot?
13:30<@peter1138>the config file changed
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13:30<Ammler>but autopilot doesn't care about them
13:30<@peter1138>there is no [patches] section any more
13:30<Ammler>only network and autopilot
13:30<@peter1138>that should be
13:30<Rubidium>and no gameopt
13:30<@peter1138>18:27 Ammler> "expr (pow(2,[get_setting patches map_y]))"
13:30<@peter1138>get_settings game_creation map_y
13:30<Ammler>ah, the map sizes :-)
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13:31<@peter1138>seems simple to fix though :)
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13:33<Ammler>peter1138: yeah, I try, If I can do that, it is easy, indeed. :-)
13:35-!-Osai is now known as Osai`off
13:37<Ammler>approved, it's easy.
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15:21<dih>gnah - something changed on console related src files...
15:24<+glx>yes, they have been splitted in logical units
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15:35<@Belugas>you're still working on that project? nice :)
15:37<dih>thought i'd let it die?
15:37<dih>i love the project
15:37<dih>just lack time
15:37<dih>and i enjoy hasseling TB when i lack knowledge...
15:38-!-nicfer [~chatzilla@] has joined #openttd
15:39<@Belugas>which means the poor soul is submerged by your questions!
15:39*Belugas hides
15:41*SmatZ hides Belugas :-)
15:41<dih>there is a channel were him and i hide :-P
15:41<dih>SmatZ: i did not know you were THAT fat
15:41<@Belugas>we like hiding :)
15:41<dih>hide and seekers :-P
15:41<nicfer>idea for a new industry: biofuel refinery, transforms grain and algae (from other new industry, the algae plantations) into goods (fuel)
15:42<dih>i'll take that as a compliment Rubidium
15:42<Rubidium>nicfer: nice idea, happy coding the NewGRF
15:43<nicfer>ideas for patches are better to discuse in the patch thread right?
15:44<nicfer>althrough this is more general
15:44<@peter1138>the patch thread?
15:44<SmatZ>#tycoon ?
15:44<nicfer>no, openttd diffs
15:44<@Belugas>nicfer, what Rubidium means is that you do not need to do a patch, you need to do a grf for it
15:44<@Belugas>since we support newindustries...
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15:45<nicfer>I was talking if I am allowed to talk about openttd patches here
15:45<@Belugas>of course
15:45<nicfer>not related to the new industry ideas
15:45<@Belugas>even related :)
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15:46<@Belugas>just that if you would like to see your biofuel stuff, the best way to see it happening is by creating a new industry grf ;)
15:48<dih>silly question here
15:48<dih>would it not be more tidy to move console stuff in it's separate directory
15:49<dih>and newgrf_* files too
15:49<dih>there are so many of them :-P
15:49*dih is just curious
15:49<+glx>maybe one day
15:49<Rubidium>and break patches?
15:49<Rubidium>no way :)
15:49<@peter1138>easier to get filename conflicts :(
15:49<Ammler>dih is careful
15:50<+glx>peter1138: right, MSVC is picky about that
15:50<@Belugas>lol at Rubidium :D
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15:51<nicfer>for example coal mines doesn't get built anywhere, they need coal below the soil
15:51<Ammler>you can't have same names in different directories?
15:51<+glx>src/a.cpp and src/b/a.cpp output the same .obj
15:51<nicfer>that's my other idea
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15:51<+glx>Ammler: MSVC puts all .obj in the same dir
15:51<nicfer>I don't know how to write it in english
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15:53<@Belugas>i see what you mean, nicfer. YOu mean that coal mines should be built in regions where there are coal underground, and not everywhere
15:53<@Belugas>is that it?
15:53<@peter1138>where is coal?
15:53<nicfer>same with farms and oil wells
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15:54<@Belugas>right now, the game implies that coal/oil/resources are everywhere
15:54<@Belugas>so, if it needs to be done,
15:54<Rubidium>do not allow building primary industries and prospecting will only build them where there's coal/oil in the ground (that's how it currently is)
15:54<@Belugas>it means that regions have to be defined when game starts, regions where it is likely to find resources
15:55<nicfer>you don't build a farm in arid zones right?
15:55<@Belugas>not the same thing
15:55<@Belugas>look at temperate
15:55<@Belugas>what is the difference ?
15:55<@Belugas>it's the same all over the map
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15:56<dih>farms usually rely on pigs cows and wheat that is in certain areas under the ground
15:56<@Belugas>ho? mining pings and cows?
15:56<@Belugas>cool :D
15:56<@peter1138>oil mines :o
15:57<dih>[21:53] <nicfer> same with farms and oil wells <-- that was in response to that :-P
15:57<@Belugas>even cooler :D
15:57<@Belugas>i think he meant by "farms" places where agriculture can be achieved
15:57<@Belugas>remember, nicfer is not as good in english as we are. so, it's normal he makes some mistakes
15:59<@Belugas>regions i have in mind for a while. still not sure if it's needed. nor how to do it without making the engine crawls
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16:03<ln-->hejd? ?t alla
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16:06<CIA-3>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r13315 /trunk/src/engine_gui.cpp: -Fix (r13314): Assert if no engines or wagons available
16:08<@peter1138>he's a myth
16:09<Sacro>or amoth
16:09*Sacro turns on the light
16:09*ln-- was in Bjarniland/Bjarnistan today
16:10<ln-->almost correct, but so wrong.
16:11<Mchl>ln: did you take pictures of ferries?
16:12<ln-->we used the bridges after all.
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16:13-!-Osai is now known as Osai`off
16:13<Mchl>don't tell Bjarni
16:13<Mchl>he thinks that people using bridges are not clever ;)
16:13<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13316 /trunk/src/news_gui.cpp: -Codechange: move some functions around to make them grouped more logically.
16:14-!-Osai`off is now known as Osai
16:14<Mchl>am joking of course
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16:18<@Bjarni><ln--> we used the bridges after all. <-- the ferry is half price
16:21<@Belugas>[16:11] <Mchl> he thinks that people using bridges are not clever ;) <-- /me stops working on bridges than...
16:21<ln>Bjarni: I believe that, but my dad insisted using the bridges and he was the one who paid, so what can you do...
16:23<Mchl>was he the one, who was driving?
16:23<@Bjarni>looks like the ferries just increased the prices due to oil prices while the bridge remained the same
16:23<Mchl>bridge management is not clever enough
16:24<Mchl>cars driving on bridge are using fuel made from oil
16:24<Mchl>thus the price should be increased
16:26-!-jez [] has joined #openttd
16:26<jez>Monica Bellucci is the sexiest thing in the world
16:27<jez>*dreamy sigh*
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16:27<@Bjarni>now the prices totally shifted
16:27<Eddi|zuHause2>i was about to write "what an odd thing to say right after joining such a channel", but then i realized it was jez i was talking about...
16:27<Mchl>she's the second actually
16:28<jez>Eddi|zuHause2: good realization
16:28<@Bjarni>one ferry line takes 275 for one way, the bridge takes 260 and the other ferry line will not sell you a one way ticket but sells return tickets for 305
16:28<jez>if i was gay, Monica Bellucci would make me straight
16:29<jez>i'm not, though, so she just makes me oversexed
16:29<@Bjarni>that's called horny
16:29<jez>nah, it's the level beyond that
16:30<ln>Mchl: yes, he was
16:30<jez>there's horny, then there's this feeling you sometimes get when you see something so incredibly sexy it takes over you
16:30<jez>i get that with her
16:30<Eddi|zuHause2>there is nothing in that picture that would make me any kind of more attracted than any other woman...
16:31<ln>Bjarni: bridges were 468
16:31<@Bjarni>Scandlines are really cheap if you want to bring a bike/motorbike
16:31<@Bjarni>21 DKK or 40 for a return ticket
16:31<jez>Eddi|zuHause2: that is the perfect female form
16:31<@Bjarni>the bridge takes 145 for a one way ticket
16:31<jez>as God designed, without flaw
16:31<Eddi|zuHause2>she's way too skinny, and the boobs are fake
16:31<jez>erm, neither look true
16:32<jez>she's the perfect weight, and her boobs look real
16:32<jez>if they were GG they would look fake
16:32<@Bjarni><ln> 465 <-- funny... that price is not listed in their pricelist
16:32<Eddi|zuHause2>they are actresses... their boobs are always fake...
16:32<Eddi|zuHause2>on the same level as girls on the internet are guys
16:33<@Bjarni>ln: but I say that you wasted around 200+fuel for 50 km by taking the bridge then
16:34<Eddi|zuHause2>man, they should start to build that bridge here...
16:34<@Bjarni>what bridge?
16:34<jez>Eddi|zuHause2: not sure why you believe that
16:34<jez>i'd say she's one of the women whose boobs do not strike me as fake
16:34<jez>frankly, if they are, i want to shake the hand of the surgeon
16:34<Eddi|zuHause2>jez: that only speaks for the surgeon ;)
16:35<ln>Bjarni: 465 = 205 + 260
16:35<ln>Bjarni: but yes, i completely agree we wasted both money and fuel.
16:36<@Bjarni>why 205?
16:36<jez>are you two lovers?
16:37<ln>Bjarni: dunno, i think that's what the receipt from the first one stated.
16:38<@Bjarni>ln: so where are you now?
16:38<Eddi|zuHause2>funny that they say they started in 2003, while there was no building work done yet
16:38<jez>Bjarni: why arent you living together yet@?
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16:39<Eddi|zuHause2>when he crossed the bridge, that would place him in sweden ;)
16:39<@Bjarni>oh really?
16:40<ln>Bjarni: Mjölby.
16:40<@Bjarni>I just wondered if he stayed there or if he moved on ;)
16:40<Eddi|zuHause2>what's the swedish word for "Gleis"? :p
16:40<ln>23:01 -!- ln-- [] has joined #openttd
16:40<ln>Eddi|zuHause2: Spår
16:40<@Bjarni>oh so you are close to Motala
16:41<Eddi|zuHause2>ln: in the sense of "platform"
16:41<ln>Bjarni: is that a good or bad thing?
16:41<jez>what's the English word for "Gleis"?
16:41<@Bjarni>I don't know
16:41<@Bjarni>jez: track
16:41<ln>Eddi|zuHause2: i think Spår is what they use at least in Finland. (and i don't recall travelling by train in sweden, ever)
16:42<@Bjarni>it's Spår in Swedish... I think
16:42<@Bjarni>and "Spor" in Danish
16:42<jez>interesting fact: accents in French are almost totally redundant. the only ones that affect pronunciation are those on 'e'
16:42<jez>other than that they're for decoration and should be dropped
16:42<ln>jez: 58.4% of letters in French are redundant.
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16:42<@Bjarni><ln> Bjarni: is that a good or bad thing? <-- basically I use it as a landmark because I know where it is
16:43<@Bjarni>we have a locomotive that was built in Motala
16:43<jez>ln: but they can be represented in an ASCII font
16:43<+glx>accents are not in ASCII
16:43<@Bjarni>ln: so you plan on going to somewhere north of Stockholm and use a ferry to Turku tomorrow?
16:45<ln>ferries from Stockholm to Turku and Helsinki are full tomorrow (as far as transporting a car is concerned), so we'll do something unexpected and go Umeå -> Vasa.
16:45<ln>(also known as Vaasa)
16:45<ln>by ferry
16:46<@Belugas>[16:40] <jez> interesting fact: accents in French are almost totally redundant. the only ones that affect pronunciation are those on 'e' <--- congratulations. YOu made AGAIN a perfect idiot of yourself
16:46<@Bjarni>ln: that's a detour of like 900 km o_O
16:47<@Bjarni>how about just reserving a ticket on the first free ferry?
16:47<ln>Bjarni: not quite, as the final target is closer to Vaasa than to Turku.
16:47<@Bjarni>but still it's like 600 km in Sweden
16:48<ln>Bjarni: but yes, a big detour, but cannot wait forever, not even a few days.
16:48<@Bjarni>however I guess the ferry is faster as the distance between the ports is smaller
16:48<Eddi|zuHause2>,11.827469&spn=0.120447,0.31517&t=h&z=12 <- on this map you see the A143 ending near Bennstedt (South), it is planned to extend that Autobahn towards the north to join the A14 near Lettewitz (North)
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16:49<Eddi|zuHause2>if you now want to cross the Saale [River], you have to take the ferry in Wettin (or less commonly the ferry in Brachwitz)
16:49<@Bjarni>ln: somehow I convinced myself that you lived in Turku :s
16:49<ln>Bjarni: i do, my dad doesn't.
16:50<Eddi|zuHause2>or you have to take the next bridge, which is in Halle Kröllwitz (East), or near Könnern (very far north)
16:50<@Bjarni>makes sense
16:50<ln>men nu måste jag go sova.. god natt till dom som förstor denna raden.
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16:51<@Bjarni>already? :P
16:51<@Bjarni>the night is young
16:51<Eddi|zuHause2>all i understood was probably "forest"
16:51<ln>yeah :/ ... woke up at 05:40 CET, expecting the same tomorrow morning
16:51<Eddi|zuHause2>see ;)
16:52<@Bjarni>it claims to be targeted only at the people who understands it
16:52<@Bjarni>nice disclaimer xD
16:53*Bjarni considers making a disclaimer like that
16:53<@Bjarni>would be interesting to write something like that in Japanese and put it up at campus
16:53<@Bjarni>people will be WTF and wonder what it says
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16:54<@Bjarni>better yet: use random Chinese chars and nobody can figure out how to translate it
16:57<@Bjarni>no comments?
16:57<@Bjarni>are you still trying to translate what I just wrote?
16:57<Eddi|zuHause2>you have never been to a lecture about semantics-free languages
16:58<@Bjarni>not at a technical university
17:00<Eddi|zuHause2>(have fun translating :p)
17:01<@Bjarni>it's not as tricky to read as you might think
17:01<@Bjarni>the question is more like what hides behind the words used about languages
17:01<@Bjarni>like semantics-free language
17:02<@Bjarni>or Semantikfreie Sprachen if you like
17:02<Eddi|zuHause2>well, syntax is how you form a sentence
17:02<Eddi|zuHause2>and semantics is what the sentence means
17:03<Eddi|zuHause2>so semantics-free languages try to achieve that whatever sentence you might be able to form, there is no chance it could possibly mean anything ;)
17:03<@Bjarni>so basically it's about languages without meaning?
17:04<@Bjarni>I know of a dorm where somebody wrote on some woodwork something in Latin about the caretaker
17:04<@Bjarni>and he really wondered what it meant
17:04<@Bjarni>and asked people who knew Latin to translate it and nobody could
17:05<@Bjarni>20 years later he retired and was told that somebody made up Latin sounding words while being drunk but it was damn fun that one of them sounded like it could be his name
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17:05<@Bjarni>well at least they thought it was damn fun when they wrote it
17:05<@Bjarni>maybe it wouldn't have been so fun to write if they were sober
17:06<Eddi|zuHause2>while on that page, the lecture about inefficient sorting is always worth a read ;)
17:06<@Bjarni>I deal with useful stuff
17:07<@Bjarni>like trains, robots, power supply, atomic bombs, ships, navigation
17:07<@Bjarni>that sort of stuff
17:07<Mchl>my friends havr discovered the ultimate secret of universe while being... itoxicated...
17:07<@Bjarni>remove one in that line :P
17:07<Mchl>they wrote it down, so they wouldn't forget it next morning...
17:07<@Bjarni>what did it say?
17:07<Mchl>and next morning they read "the guy next door is an asshole"
17:08<@Bjarni>at least they wrote perfectly well English while being drunk
17:08<@Bjarni>that's more than the Americans can do
17:08<Mchl>that's strange, isnt it?
17:09<@Bjarni>the Americans can't write proper English while being sober either but that's another story
17:09<Mchl>they seem to have slightly diffrent approach to grammar rules
17:10<@Bjarni>and spelling
17:10<@Bjarni>and choice of words
17:10<@Bjarni>and content
17:10<Mchl>oh yeah... that one too
17:10<@Bjarni>and intellectual level of content
17:11<@Bjarni>not to mention sanity
17:12<SmatZ>isn't your opinion affected by so many "songs" from America? ("black men talking mothafucka...")
17:13<Eddi|zuHause2>speaking of sanity:
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17:14<SmatZ>that's a bit German
17:14<Mchl>how about white man (a president actually) talking rubbish? he doesn't do this all the tie, but it happensto him far to often...
17:14<Mchl>tie -> time
17:15<Eddi|zuHause2>SmatZ: that's part of the sanity ;)
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17:16<@Bjarni><SmatZ> isn't your opinion affected by so many "songs" from America? ("black men talking mothafucka...") <-- actually not... I was talking about the people
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17:17<@Bjarni>Mchl: well.. compared to Reagan he is completely sane
17:17<@Bjarni>I think it was Reagan who had a whole lot of cards with stuff he should say and once in a while where there was a camera nearby he took at card at random and read what it said
17:17<@Bjarni>totally out of context
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17:18<@Bjarni>one of the best is when he read it incorrectly... he claimed that 90% of all air pollution came from trees
17:20<@Bjarni>one US President once returned from South America and declared that he learned a lot of that trip. For instance South America is not a country but consists of several countries
17:21<@Bjarni>one US president candidate once declared that he knew foreign affairs well. He could name all the continents
17:21<@Bjarni>that wasn't enough to get elected though
17:21<Rubidium>and forgot antartica?
17:22<SmatZ>well, hier anyone can be a president candidate if he gets enough support (I think 20 000 signs) ... but maybe it has changed
17:23<@Bjarni>Rubidium: I think he named 5 continents
17:23<Sacro>there are 5
17:23<Rubidium>aren't there like 7-ish?
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17:24<Rubidium>lol ;)
17:24<Rubidium>there are 5, 6 or 7 continents depending on the model
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17:25<@Bjarni>North America, South America, Europe, Asia, Africa, Australia (might have been considered part of Asia back then), Antarctica (nobody important lives there so foreign affairs kind of don't care)
17:25<SmatZ>how much planets are there in the Solar system?
17:25<@Bjarni>but today we officially claim the world to consist of 7 continents
17:25<Mchl>pi squared
17:25<SmatZ>Rubidium is the winner!
17:25<@Bjarni><SmatZ> how much planets are there in the Solar system? <-- 8
17:25<@Bjarni>Pluto lost it's status
17:25<SmatZ>hehe it was a tricky question ;)
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17:26<@Bjarni>and a whole lot of people complained afterwards
17:26<@Bjarni>they were absent when they voted on the status of Pluto
17:26<Mchl>astrologers had their worst day ever
17:26<SmatZ>poor Pluto
17:26<Sacro>but it did set Holst right
17:27<@Bjarni><SmatZ> poor Pluto <-- I think Mickey will treat him right anyway
17:27<SmatZ>similiar, at school I was said Mt. Everest is 8848m heigh, now it is 8850...
17:28<+glx>I though it was smaller
17:29<Sacro>it gained 20ft
17:29<Rubidium>8844.43 without the ice
17:29<Mchl>these 2 extra meters it's all the stuff people carried on the top :P
17:29<Rubidium>measured in 2005
17:29<Rubidium>in 1999 someone measured 8850
17:29<@Bjarni>some Icelandic scientists made high precision GPS readings of the highest peak in Iceland
17:30<Mchl>now, I've a question...
17:30<@Bjarni>so it ended up being lower than expected and Norway is higher
17:30<Mchl>how exactly is 0 ASL height defined?
17:30<SmatZ>Rubidium: even more interesting :)
17:30<@Bjarni>so if the Icelandic didn't try to verify what everybody believed Iceland would still be the highest point in northern Europe
17:30<SmatZ>Mchl: depends on base...
17:31<SmatZ>there are two bases I think
17:31<Rubidium>the latter was made using GPS
17:31<Rubidium>which I don't quite trust
17:31<@Bjarni><Mchl> how exactly is 0 ASL height defined? <-- that's a really good question
17:32<@Bjarni>you can't even say that it's the height of the ocean
17:32<@Bjarni>because it's not stable
17:32<Mchl>just occured to me, that you can move mountain tops quite a lot, by moving this level :P
17:32<@Bjarni>and then I would ask "which ocean?" because they aren't even at the same height
17:33<@Bjarni>The Panama channel can't go through without locks (as originally planned) due to the fact that the Caribbean is higher than the Pacific
17:33<Mchl>'s some info as usual
17:34<@Bjarni>also they encountered other problems
17:34<Mchl>were did my space go?
17:34<Eddi|zuHause2><Bjarni> <SmatZ> how much planets are there in the Solar system? <-- 8 <-- it's totally bad, because now the phrase "Mein Vater Erklärt Mir Jeden Sonntag Unsere Neun Planeten" does not work anymore
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17:34<Eddi|zuHause2>(it's to memorize the names of the planet, because they start with the same letters)
17:35<@Bjarni>I don't need that one
17:35<@Bjarni>I just know them
17:36<SmatZ>I think there are two base sea levels, difference between them is 19m
17:36<@Bjarni>Mercury, Venus, localhost, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune <--- that's the order
17:36<Eddi|zuHause2>the sea level is different depending on how far away from the equator you are
17:36<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13317 /trunk/src/ (news_gui.cpp news_type.h settings.cpp settings_type.h):
17:36<CIA-3>OpenTTD: -Codechange: make news messages use a linked list instead of a moving circular buffer. This makes it possible to store more news messages in the history. Based on a patch by Cirdan.
17:36<CIA-3>OpenTTD: -Codechange: the number of news messages is reduced by removing every news
17:36<CIA-3>OpenTTD: message that is a configurable amount older than when it would not be shown in
17:36<CIA-3>OpenTTD: the newspaper popup/ticker, which is e.g. a month for industry production
17:36<CIA-3>OpenTTD: changes and half a year for subsidy offers. As a result the more important
17:36<CIA-3>OpenTTD: messages will stay longer in the message history (if longer than 30 messages).
17:37<Eddi|zuHause2>which causes big problems occasionally
17:37<Mchl>there's thing called 'mean sea level' apparently
17:37<Mchl>though calclating it is hell of a work
17:38<Eddi|zuHause2>well, east germany used the russian reference point, and west germany used the dutch reference point [there's a third reference point in the mediterranean which is used by switzerland]
17:39<Eddi|zuHause2>upon the reunification, they joined the two reference points of germany by taking the mean
17:39<Mchl>I'd go for WGS explanation personally
17:39<Mchl>seems easiest
17:39<SmatZ>go go go
17:40<Mchl>and least ambigous
17:47<Eddi|zuHause2>well, there are attempts to synchronise the different height systems used in europe to the dutch reference point in amsterdam
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17:49<Rubidium>luckily enough most of Europe can't use the Dutch location grid system in the same way as in the Netherlands :)
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17:51<Eddi|zuHause2>well, they tried to build a bridge over the rhine between switzerland and germany, and the height systems have a difference of 27cm
17:51<Eddi|zuHause2>they knew that when planning the bridge, but instead of substracting the height difference, they added it
17:51<Eddi|zuHause2>so they ended up 54cm too high on the german side
17:52<Rubidium>Switzerland must've been lower
17:52<Eddi|zuHause2>no, the sea level drops the more you go outside from the equator
17:52<Eddi|zuHause2>because the spinning forces are higher at the equator
17:53<Rubidium>but Switzerland is heavier per square km
17:53<Eddi|zuHause2>no, that's a different force, glx ;)
17:53<+glx>too many forces
17:53<+glx>right coriolis is null at the equator
17:54<Eddi|zuHause2>the coriolis force is the one that wears down one side of the track more than the other when going north-south (and back)
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17:54*Rubidium wonders whether it's rotational spin of the earth around the sun has a measurable effect on the sealevel
17:54<Eddi|zuHause2>it's also what causes the west wind
17:55<+glx>the moon has an effect
17:55<Eddi|zuHause2>well, the moon has not a 100% effect on tides
17:55<Eddi|zuHause2>the sun also takes part in it
17:56<Eddi|zuHause2>that's why the tides have different height during the moon phases
17:56<dih>what happened to _icolour_def ?
17:57<+glx>was a readonly
17:57<dih>so - what to use instead?
17:57<Rubidium>read the diff
17:57<dih>yep - was just going to say that
17:58<dih>and _patches has become _patches_<section> ?
17:58<Rubidium>read the diff
17:59<dih>i do not even know in which revision it changed
18:00*Rubidium wonders how hard it is to look at the log of a single file
18:00<dih>Rubidium: you are for some reason being extreeeeemly helpful today!
18:00<Eddi|zuHause2>is something he said not true?
18:01<dih>i never said that it was not true
18:01<dih>just said it was not helpful
18:01<Rubidium>asking the question and waiting for the reply costs more time than finding out yourself
18:02<dih>if you would have to look yourself, is it so hard to say that
18:02<dih>and perhaps a wee bit more friendly?
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18:04<Eddi|zuHause2>if you have to deal with questions like that every day, you invent the most creative ways to tell these people that you are not going to answer the question ;)
18:04<Rubidium>I'd be delighted to answer your question, but today I am not in the mood to go type the required svn command to find out the revision the change happened in, in order to type a svn command, a different one to be precise, to find out what the actual answer to your question is.
18:04<Rubidium>took me 2 minutes to write with *exactly* the same result
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18:05<dih>Rubidium: i did not mean 'arselicking'! but simply 'would have to look that up myself' suffices in some cases
18:05<Rubidium>that's not "friendly"
18:06<dih>more friendly...
18:06<Eddi|zuHause2>but longer than what he actually said
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18:17<Ammler>dih: r13251
18:20<Sacro>Bjarni: >:3
18:20<@Bjarni>you better explain yourself real good
18:20<dih>that looks like a punk-sheep
18:21<@Bjarni>how can less then dotted 3 be a sheep?
18:22<Ammler>and Rubidium, if you read the source, it IS a ini :-P
18:25<Ammler>anyway I like the new structure...
18:26<Ammler>those old pathfinder things could use their own group too
18:26<Ammler>(npf is old too)
18:27<Ammler>would be easier to filter them out
18:29<dih>[00:21] <Ammler> and Rubidium, if you read the source, it IS a ini :-P <- i will not comment :-D
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18:56<@Bjarni>500 Internal Server Error
18:56<@Bjarni>Sorry, something went wrong.
18:56<@Bjarni>A team of highly trained monkeys has been dispatched to deal with this situation. Please report this incident to customer service.
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20:25<@Belugas>"This program cannot execute, your processor dos not support some required features"
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20:26<@Belugas>Ableton live
20:27*Belugas looks for another digital studio stuff
20:27<SmatZ>damn proprietary stuff
20:29<@Belugas>that or too old cpu :)
20:29<@Belugas>i tend to think of the latter idea ;)
20:29<@Belugas>Athlon 1.35
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20:32<SmatZ>I have Duron 1300 and I have no problem to compile anything on that ;)
20:32<SmatZ>supposiong opensource..
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20:35<Sacro>well hello Belugas
20:35<Sacro>well helo SmatZ
20:35<Sacro>well heo Eddi|zuHause3
20:35<SmatZ>we he Sacro
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20:51<jez>i was going to get to bed at a reasonable hour
20:51<jez>then i started watching "Educating Rita", and it hooked me
20:52<jez>now it's 2.00
20:52<jez>is it me, or is one of the overriding themes that the tutor basically fancies Rita and wants her to shag him?
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22:01<@Belugas>lucky SmatZ :)
22:02<@Belugas>but i guess that when it comes to stuff like multimedia and all those recording stuff, some specs are required
22:02<@Belugas>and yeah... jezz to jez
22:10*Belugas tests pikka's long dates test
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22:22<@Belugas>so it works :D
22:22<@Belugas>but now, it means we have tons of year-stuff to check or add :S
22:28<@Belugas>argghh...not enough bits on houses
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---Logclosed Thu May 29 00:00:46 2008