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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-06-02

---Logopened Mon Jun 02 00:00:16 2008
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01:14<kajo>Hello, is anyone there?
01:16<kajo>Anyone? I am at a loss about the tgrf files (???) or whatever they are that I need that are the graphics files? I don't understand where they are/what the heck is the deal with those...
01:17<Ammler>kajo: did you read the readme?
01:17<Ammler>good morning btw. :-)
01:17<kajo>ammler, yes I did, and only became more confused as I went on.
01:17<kajo>Good morning to you also.
01:18<Ammler>do you have a copy of TTD?
01:18<kajo>I can't find the damn files- do I have to download them separately? Do I just have to move them from one folder to the other?
01:18<kajo>I had the DOS one years ago, but I'm on an ubuntu system now.
01:19<@DorpsGek>Ammler: original grf files:
01:19<@DorpsGek>Ammler: newgrf files:
01:20<Ammler>kajo: I would use windows grfs, It is better for MP games...
01:21<kajo>Ammler, I don't have a preference, I just don't understand what the deal is with the grfs, and why the runaround is being given.
01:21<kajo>I understand they are the graphics files?
01:21<kajo>thanks for the URL though, I was looking in the forum...
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01:27<kajo>ammler, I still don't understand. I went to the first link, and the only thing that would look potentially promising is a .rar, but that's windows... "TTD original graphics:" it says. What the heck is the deal with these files?
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01:43<Pikka>kajo: extract the files from the .rar into the /data subdirectory. did you really read the readme? :O
01:43<kajo>pikka, I really did. It didn't ever mention downloading a separate rar or anything, just starts talking about these files that cannot be found anywhere...
01:44<Pikka>well the understanding is that you already have a legit copy of ttd. ;)
01:46<kajo>Well, the frustrating thing for me is that I have the rights to these files because I do. But in the readme, it should at least credibly demonstrate it assumes you have the legit copy, I mean... I was just in the dark. A statement in that area along the lines of "These files are understood to already be on your system because you already have the CD; if you have lost your copy of the CD, but have the rights to the data for personal us
01:46<kajo>e, they can be found online if you are persistent." would have sufficed.
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02:42<CIA-3>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r13356 /trunk/src/ (economy.cpp economy_type.h): -Codechange: Incorrect documentation and variable type for inflation rates
02:44<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13357 /trunk/src/yapf/ (8 files): -Codechange: add constness to YAPF.
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04:34<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13358 /trunk/src/order_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: split next order determination and conditional order processing functionality from the order handling. Patch based on work by michi_cc.
04:34<Noldo>is this yapp related?
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04:34<Eddi|zuHause2>no, because apparently yapp is bad :p
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04:36<@Rubidium>just cherry picking some cleanup parts from the yapp patch
04:36<@Rubidium>makes the yapp patch smaller
04:37<@Rubidium>and more likely that it doesn't break by a commit
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04:42<@peter1138>hmm, annoying
04:42<@peter1138>vista has decided i can remove my primary hdd
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04:44<Eddi|zuHause2>"hmm, annoying, vista [...]"
04:45<@peter1138>and just annoyed some ... fashion muppet
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04:47<@peter1138>Liz> Yves Saint Laurent has died, a true genius :(
04:47<@peter1138>petererer> much like newton, einstein, galileo, brunel, etc
04:47<Eddi|zuHause2>certainly ;)
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08:44<Eddi|zuHause3>Belugas: yes, it's one of the greatest bands ever ;)
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10:00<Ammler>someone a idea, how to downgrade a cfg?
10:01<@Belugas>use on older version of OTTD?
10:01<Eddi|zuHause2>start with an empty cfg
10:02<Eddi|zuHause2>and then "backport" the changes
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10:04<+glx>write a converter
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10:04<Sacro>Appearance and characteristics are shown on a real copy of the screen"
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10:05<Sacro>News of Russian project OpenTTD 32bpp
10:06<LA>:P Recommended numbers of versions OpenTTD 32bpp = 8942 - 9646
10:07<Eddi|zuHause2>well, the newer ones do not have increased zoom :p
10:07<+glx>yes he still uses the old dead branch
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10:08<LA>lol.. he has my never actually started small airport graphics.
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10:08<LA>which I have not given permissio
10:08<Eddi|zuHause2>of course you didn't...
10:08<LA>for him to use... he asked about tropical bank once though
10:09<Ammler>I forgot one time to start with -x and now the cfg is new :-), stupid me.
10:09<Eddi|zuHause2>keep a backup next time :p
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10:09<LA>I like the part where he says (c)sergey all rights reserved
10:09<LA>graphics by werminaard lol
10:11<LA>"Jean-Francois Claeys (Belugas) - In training, not yet specialized"
10:12<LA>"official releases of openttd"
10:12<+glx>official releases are not in rar
10:12<LA>I'm just roffeling now
10:12<LA>erm.. rofl
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10:19<CIA-3>OpenTTD: skidd13 * r13359 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs):
10:19<CIA-3>OpenTTD: -Codechange: convert _fios_items to a SmallVector
10:19<CIA-3>OpenTTD: -Cleanup: some reincarnations of _fios_items in the code
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10:28<CIA-3>OpenTTD: skidd13 * r13360 /trunk/src/ (fios.h os2.cpp win32.cpp): -Fix (r13359): Forgot to remove some instances of FiosAlloc()
10:29<Sacro>LA: thanks, means it is valid to report it as warez
10:30<LA>I reported it already
10:30<LA>but not as warez though :P
10:30<Sacro>well it is
10:30<Sacro>he's distributing your stuff illegally
10:30<LA>define warez
10:31<CIA-3>OpenTTD: glx * r13361 /trunk/src/ (os2.cpp win32.cpp): -Fix (r13360): regexp failed
10:31<LA>and tbh I don't care if he does that or not.. It is just annoying to see his unenglish posts
10:33<@Belugas>why don't we invade his forums with posts in french, german, english or even chinese!
10:33<LA>russian to english with online translator = unenglish to me
10:33<@Belugas>anyone knows klingon? ln maybe?
10:34<LA>why won't we invade his forums with english -> russian online translation
10:34<LA>"unrussian" ^^
10:34<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r13362 /trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp: -Fix: make the town authority window a bit less glitchy
10:35<bowman>I saw that guy on the my-symbian forums
10:35<LA>ln- knows even Estonian, he might know klingon too
10:37<bowman> bizarre post
10:38<LA>" - the main forum of project open transport tycoon deluxe (openttd 32bpp) "
10:38<+glx> <-- he's here too (french forum)
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10:39<+glx>but still using his weird english
10:39<LA>btw funny thing is that he probably even pays for the webspace
10:39<LA>glx: unenglish :D
10:39<bowman>what is it that he does exactly?
10:40<+glx>I like his signature "The participant of project OpenTTD 32bpp"
10:40<bowman>the only one!
10:40<@Belugas>basically, promoting his package of graphics, taking some from other authors not always mentionning it, and which package can only be used on a version of OpenTTD that was not official, nor has naymore life
10:41<+glx>and he also provides openttd packages including ttd files I think
10:41<@Belugas>so, all in all, i don't know why he does so
10:41<@Belugas>you have to give him credits on the fact that he is dedicated to the task tough...
10:42<@Belugas>i think so too, glx
10:42<Lakie>You mean Sjard or whatever he is called?
10:43<Lakie>Ah yes, sorry.
10:43<Lakie>I remember, he got into trouble for not giving credit were due and ripping off graphics from other users (and sometimes comerical games) if I remember correctly.
10:43<Ammler>but he has some graphics there, I never saw on tt-forums, has he done them self?
10:44<+glx>Ammler: no he has russians for that
10:44<Ammler>some looks nice
10:45<SmatZ>yeah, very nice
10:47<@Belugas>i just wonder why he does not use trunk's 32 graphix :S
10:48<@peter1138>probably because it don't have extra zoom levels
10:50<@Belugas>could be indeed
10:50<+glx>*doesn't ;)
10:51<LA>but why he doesn't use GeekToo's patch then? :P
10:51*Lakie doesn't see the point in going closer than 1x zoom
10:51*SmatZ does
10:52<Lakie>Sure it might look prettier, but you can't see so much and when you.
10:52<Sacro>georges lvs
10:52<Lakie>are zoomed in so close*
10:52<LA>sacro, uncensored?
10:52<Sacro>la: we'll find out
10:53<LA>what do you think if Geek's better zooming interpolation will show sth?
10:53<LA>for 8bpp sprites that is
10:53<@Belugas>Lakie, maybe as to give the illusion of a 3d world a bit more?
10:53<Lakie>Meh, its isometric, surely roation would feel more 3d?
10:55<@peter1138>there is a point
10:55<@peter1138>when you're running on a 1920x1200 LCD
10:55<@peter1138>just a simple double zoom is all that's needed
10:55<@peter1138>not extra sprites
10:56<@peter1138>maybe 3* zoom for that res ;)
10:57<Eddi|zuHause2>well, there should be some kind of smoothing for these zoom levels
10:57<Eddi|zuHause2>which is non-trivial
10:57<@peter1138>you can realibly smooth the edges
10:58<@peter1138>you can't reliably smooth the edges
10:58<Eddi|zuHause2>you can smooth lines on a per-sprite basis, if you know wether the lines go \/ or -|-
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10:59<LA>btw some mod took care of our best friend sergey
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10:59<Eddi|zuHause2>there was a quite good smooth filter patch for the old double zoom, but it was specialised on \/ lines, so it screwed up with text
11:00<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause2: no way of knowing what orientation it is
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11:00<@peter1138>well, not without heuristics
11:01<Eddi|zuHause2>indeed, it would have to be given ;)
11:01<@peter1138>(aka guessing)
11:01<Eddi|zuHause2>but really, the only noticeable problems were letters
11:02<Eddi|zuHause2>and those are easily identified
11:02<Eddi|zuHause2>IF you filter the individual sprites, not the resulting picture
11:03<Eddi|zuHause2>but working on sprites might get you problems at the edges
11:03<SmatZ>you can filter individual sprites if you resize them during encoding
11:04<SmatZ>resizing during drawing would be probably much slower
11:04<Eddi|zuHause2>of course, you would probably cache the scaled version
11:05<Eddi|zuHause2>the old double zoom worked on the screen buffer, it just copied each pixel to a 2x2 area at twice coordinates
11:06<Eddi|zuHause2>that's probably not the optimal solution
11:06<SmatZ>do you mean the windows-only ctrl+D mode?
11:06<Eddi|zuHause2>yes, that one
11:06<SmatZ>I thought it used windows specific calls
11:06<SmatZ>so it resized everything, including main toolbar
11:06<Eddi|zuHause2>there was a patch that ported it to linux
11:07<Eddi|zuHause2>no, it made no special calls, it just transformed the buffer array
11:07<@peter1138>i thought gdi did it
11:07<+glx>gdi can zoom "on the fly" IIRC
11:08<Eddi|zuHause2>but that was not how it was implemented :p
11:12<SmatZ>if it wasn't done this way, then it wouldn't have to be windows specific
11:12<SmatZ>but there were / are more patches allowing zooming
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11:18<Eddi|zuHause2>no, it did not have to be windows specific, just nobody bothered enough. and then came the new blitter system, which screwed the thing up completely
11:20<@peter1138>made it cleaner ;)
11:21<Eddi|zuHause2>if you define "clean $x" by "mv $x /dev/null", then yes ;)
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13:23<Digitalfox>Hi :)
13:24<LA>he df
13:25<Digitalfox>I'm using Firefox 3.0 RC1 and when viewing I got this
13:25<Digitalfox>Hi LA :)
13:26<Digitalfox>LA made any progress in 8bpp GUI ?
13:26<LA>erm.. NO
13:26<LA>I'm not involved there so much
13:26<LA>and I haven't done anything lately
13:26<Digitalfox>ok, I'm eager to see it in game, those graphics look great :)
13:26<Digitalfox>I understand ;)
13:26<LA>I'm more organizing wwottdgd2 in my openttd time
13:28<LA>btw digitalfox, it's rc issue.. has no problem with it
13:29<Digitalfox>LA I was thinking it was some CSS changes in 3.0 code that make it that way.. ;)
13:30<@peter1138>it's those long servers names and some strange occurance of nowrap
13:30<Digitalfox>I'll try with RC2 when it gets released near the weekend!
13:30<Mchl>it's not FF3 issue, it's FF2 issue
13:31<Mchl>FF2 trated some attributes incorrectly
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13:32<Mchl>even though it was possible to get correct layout ;)
13:32<Digitalfox>Mchl maybe it has something to do with 3.0 passing acid2 test and the chages made for it to pass?
13:33<Mchl>this as well, yes
13:33<Mchl>don't know much details, but I know that <td> width is affected
13:34<Mchl>javascript library I use for web GUI design had to implement fixes for that as well
13:34<Mchl>now it works well both under 2.0 and 3.0
13:34<Mchl>so it is possible
13:35<Mchl>btw: Digitalfox, how's your exam results? ;)
13:35<Digitalfox>19/20 =0
13:36<Pikka>no it doesn't...
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13:36<Digitalfox>Pikka ?
13:37<Digitalfox>Care to explain? :)
13:38<Pikka>19 divided by 20 does not equal 0. :)
13:39<Mchl>it does
13:39<LA>: is not equality symbol
13:39<Mchl>when result is of int type
13:39<LA>he used =0
13:39<LA>noy :0
13:39<LA>või :o
13:40<LA>või = or
13:40<LA>was talking to one estonian just
13:40<LA>and mind slipped
13:40<LA>and fingggers
13:41<Mchl>is this poetry or something?
13:41<Pikka>it's certainly something!
13:41<LA>should it be?
13:42<Mchl>aha! philosophy!
13:42<LA>btw pikka, I still gotta thank you again for helping me with the easter grf :P
13:43<LA>mchl: As long as you can see some deep meaning of this... S)
13:44<Mchl>I don't... that's why I think it's philosophy (or poetry maybe...)
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13:46<LAIsNotPhilosoph>lo orudge
13:46<@orudge`>Good evening
13:47<Ammler>Pikka: is there a difference between your refit GRF and the official GRF from George/MB ?
13:47<Pikka>I didn't know there was an official grf from george/mb.
13:48<@peter1138>what would make it 'official' coming from george/mb?
13:48<Ammler>peter1138: on the ECS download page
13:48<LAIsNotPhilosoph>perhaps it's just advertised on ttdpatch site
13:49-!-LAIsNotPhilosoph is now known as LA
13:50<LA>btw, which is correct : advertized or advertised
13:50<@peter1138>Have you been brainwashed into thinking ECS == new cargos?
13:50<@peter1138>there is more than ECS around (fortunately)
13:51<Ammler>PBI is also ECS, isn't?
13:51<+glx>Pikka: gec 'class 91' has some glitches on train reversing
13:51<@peter1138>no, ECS is ECS
13:51<@peter1138>PBI is new cargos and new industries
13:51<@Belugas>Ammler, do you know what ECS means?
13:52<+glx>Extended Cargo Scheme
13:52<Ammler>Belugas: yes
13:52<Pikka>glx, glitches?
13:52<+glx>nothing related to industries
13:52<@Belugas>That's the point :)
13:53<+glx>Pikka: -->
13:53<+glx>same happens it ttdpatch
13:53<Ammler>ok, PBI does also use ECS, right? :-)
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13:53<Pikka>no, Ammler
13:53<Pikka>yeah, it's meant to do that, glx. :)
13:53<+glx>but it looks strange
13:53<Mchl>LA: *ised is british english, *ized is american english (or the other way out)
13:54<Prof_Frink>*ised is right, *ized is wrong.
13:54<LA>frink is wrong
13:54<@peter1138>glx: put a mail van on the end
13:54<Prof_Frink>No. I'm English. I'm Right.
13:54<LA>You're left
13:55<Mchl>If you're English, then I'm gonnaagree with you :P
13:55<LA>I thought you were a human
13:55<LA>not a language
13:55<+glx>peter1138: ho I see
13:55<Mchl>I'm a pole
13:55<LA>north pole?
13:55<+glx>then it shouldn't be allowed to start without the mail van :)
13:56<Mchl>no, the other pole
13:56<Pikka>why not, glx?
13:56<LA>south pole?
13:56<Mchl>south pole is not the other
13:56<+glx>to prevent the "glitch"
13:56<Pikka>the 91 is actually a double-cab locomotive, it's just the two ends look completely different. :)
13:56<LA>pole means 'is not' in Estonian
13:57<Mchl>is not pole?
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13:57<@peter1138>the blunt end
13:57<+glx>hmm yes one has panto, the other has not
13:58<Mchl>'pole' means 'field' in polish
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13:58<Prof_Frink>Polish means something to make things shiny.
13:59<@Belugas>ECS is just an attempt to establish a standard (or at least a possible standardized use) of new cargo. But it's up to the coder to accept it. Sets can be done without ECS without any problems. It's just a spec, nothing more
13:59<Ammler>Pikka: but your GRF is also useable for ECS
13:59<@Belugas>that was addressed to Ammler
13:59<Ammler>as much as my testing showed...
13:59<Mchl>Word that sounds like 'Polish' means 'lick it' in Polish
14:00<Pikka>yes, Ammler
14:00<@peter1138>if you're using PBI, you're not using ECS
14:02<Pikka>glx: the 91 can be used it two ways. with a driving trailer on the back, it becomes a double-headed trainset. with no driving trailer, the locomotive runs around the train on reversing and ends up driving flat-end forward.
14:02<Pikka>which it can do, because it has a cab in the flat end as well as in the pointy end
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14:04<+glx>ok, so it just look strange for people not knowing the engine
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14:10<Ammler>Pikka: it makes the other one obsolete, I will replace it on the wiki, it seems better...
14:12<@Bjarni>I don't know what you are talking about but that line smells of progress so it's all good
14:15<Mchl>I love the smell of the progress in the morning...
14:17<@Bjarni>isn't this a bit late to called morning?
14:18<Mchl>this phrase has originated from far east... it's morning over there
14:18<@Bjarni>isn't this a bit early to be called morning? :P
14:19<@peter1138>Ammler: so does the other GRF not exist suddenly?
14:19<@peter1138>that is an ECS compatibility list, not a list of GRFs to use
14:19<Mchl>3:20 am in Tokyo... it's morning all right
14:19<Ammler>I added it and george added the "only for test", so I guess, it's better to remove it
14:20<@Bjarni>it's like 2:20 in Singapore right now
14:20<Mchl>and the morning is near!
14:20<@Bjarni><Mchl> 3:20 am in Tokyo... it's morning all right <-- how can it be morning before sunrise?
14:20<Mchl>could be
14:21<Mchl>technically we have no real night this time of year (and you neither I suppose)
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14:22<@Bjarni>we have too much night though
14:22<@Bjarni>I have problems getting a clear view of far away stuff around midnight
14:23<Ammler>that link doesn't help
14:23<Ammler>stupid wiki :-)
14:23<Mchl>yeah... I also have problems in twilight...
14:24<DaleStan>Ammler: I think you mean ...pagehistory.php?page=...
14:24<@Bjarni>like I have still to figure out how much steel the steel trains carry
14:24<@Bjarni>as they drive during the time when there are very few other trains
14:24<@Bjarni>like sometime after midnight
14:24<Ammler>DaleStan: I liked to show diff between v6 and 7
14:24<@Bjarni>the wagons looks somewhat dark during that period
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14:26<DaleStan>Ah. Yes. Forging POST requests is great fun, isn't it?
14:27<Ammler>peter1138: if you think, I should keep, let me know :-)
14:29<Ammler>well, doesn't work everytime :-)
14:30<Mchl>why do you need to know, about the steel?
14:30<@Bjarni>I want to know as it shakes the house whenever it passes
14:31<Mchl>i see :D
14:31<@Bjarni>I have seen the wagons in daylight (empty). They use 3 axle bogie wagons
14:32<@Bjarni>with a max axle pressure of 18 tons then it allows a whole lot of steel on each wagon
14:33<Mchl>a lot indeed
14:34<Mchl>and how many wagons per train?
14:34<@Bjarni>15-20 I think
14:35<@Bjarni>they always use two locomotives
14:35<Mchl>heavy freight
14:35<Mchl>no wonder you can't sleep :P
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14:36<@Bjarni>actually that's not a huge issue
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14:37<@Bjarni>the railroad paid for sound proof windows as their own noise measurements turned out to be too high
14:37<@Bjarni>not completely sound proof
14:37<@Bjarni>I can still hear the roar of the diesel engines
14:37<@Bjarni>for quite a while before they show up
14:38<Mchl>I wonder somtimes, how it would be to live next to a cargo railway
14:39<@Bjarni>I'm actually quite happy that we have the freight trains. Not only does it mean better times for a Danish freight company it also means a whole lot less heavy lorries on the roads
14:39<Mchl>but in Poland rail wouldn't pay for soundproof windows
14:40<@Bjarni><Mchl> I wonder somtimes, how it would be to live next to a cargo railway <-- beats me.... there are only two freight trains each way every week
14:40<@Bjarni>it used to be one every 2nd hour but that was before I moved in
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14:41<@Bjarni>I don't consider the noise from the railroad an issue. I did at one time though
14:42<@Bjarni>because it was before they replaced our windows and they decided on replacing the tracks all night on a night just before an exam
14:42<Touqen>o/` I was working on the railroad o/`
14:42<Touqen>o/` All the live long daaaaay o/`
14:42<@Bjarni>you too?
14:42<Maedhros>Mchl: you get used to it, after a while (I live next to the ECML in the UK)
14:43<Touqen>I live next to people with kids that cry a lot.
14:43<Touqen>And run up and down the stairs a lot.
14:43<@Bjarni>sounds a lot worse
14:43<Touqen>And run around their apartment a lot.
14:44<@Bjarni>I saw something on TV the other day about people who... well... didn't sleep quietly to put it mildly :)
14:44<Touqen>night terrors?
14:45<Mchl>oh yeah... I had such neighbours...
14:45<@Bjarni>and they asked people on the street about it and one guy said that the guy in the apartment next to him could keep him from falling asleep
14:45<@Bjarni>now that's bad
14:45<Touqen>That's pretty awful.
14:47<@Bjarni>I consider that far worse than the railroad
14:48<@Bjarni>when my brother lived in an apartment he once invited the guy from the apartment above his to visit him while the rest of his family were making the normal noise level
14:48<@Bjarni>then they freaked out as it was possible to hear where in the apartment they were and what music they were listening to
14:48<@Bjarni>almost what they were talking about
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15:08<Mchl>when I told my neighbour, I can hear her and her boyfriend pretty well, she brought me a pair of ear plugs :P
15:10<@Bjarni>I once visited a guy in a dorm and the guy next door showed up and told that he wanted to play loud music and hoped that it wouldn't bother us too much and then he went inside his own room together with a woman
15:14<Mchl>what kind of music was that?
15:15<@Bjarni>I can't remember
15:15<@Bjarni>but we all knew what noises it should hide :P
15:16<Mchl>NSELN - noise suppresion by emision of louder noise
15:18<@Bjarni> <-- I found a video of one of the steel trains. However it's a bit dated and not only do they not go that way anymore they are also operated by some other company
15:18<@Bjarni>and somehow I'm not sure that the wagons are the same
15:18<@Bjarni>they look somewhat smaller
15:21*Bjarni wonders how many will idle in order to see it
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15:35<CIA-3>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r13363 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Codechange: Code duplication tidy up
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15:42<ln>Bjarni: do danes go to Flensburg (often)?
15:42<@Bjarni>I think so
15:42<Touqen>Not just any danes.
15:42<Touqen>Great Danes!
15:43<Touqen>I'm sorry.
15:43<@Bjarni>I think there is (or at least used to be) a train going from Århus to Flensburg
15:43<@Bjarni>I presume that it would only be there if people actually used it
15:44<@Bjarni>but usually people show up in cars because then they can bring back more cargo
15:44<@Bjarni>so they enjoy the 16% VAT (compared to 25% in Denmark)
15:44<ln>Bjarni: there was a grocery selling many sorts of alcohol and food. prices more visibly in DKK, euro prices only with small text.
15:46<ln>Bjarni: germany's vat is 19% nowadays, btw
15:46<LA>hmm.... ee... Bjarni!
15:47*LA feels terribly stupid (not for greeting bjarni though)
15:48<ln>De bedes venligst kontrollere Deres bon inden De forlader butikkens område da senere reklamation ikke er mulig !!
15:48<LA>now.. Could anyone give me a link to 0.6.*0* win installer?
15:49<LA>downloads page is... only 0.6.1
15:49<LA>and in sourceforge I didn't see 0.6.0 too
15:49<@Belugas>look closer...
15:49<LA>I know there is somewhere
15:50<@Bjarni><ln> Bjarni: there was a grocery selling many sorts of alcohol and food <-- surprisingly they match the kind of stuff that's noteworthy cheaper in Germany
15:50<LA>But I don't see where :(
15:50<@Bjarni>ln: <-- the link you didn't want to download when you were in Germany
15:50<@Bjarni>you cheap bastard :P
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15:51<ln>even now i'm using pay-per-megabyte gprs basically, but i'll open it now.
15:51<LA>There is *development downloads(nightlys)* and *downloads (only _latest_ stable :/ )*
15:51<@Bjarni>why not use flatrate like the rest of us? :)
15:52<@Bjarni>LA: you can go to sourceforge and download all the stables if you like
15:52<@Bjarni>I don't know why you would want to do so though
15:52<ln>i've recently moved into a new apartment, and i only placed order for DSL yesterday.
15:52<CIA-3>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r13364 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Codechange: Refactor action 3 mapping to use grf_load_*() instead of direct byte array access.
15:52<Prof_Frink>You only need as many stables as you have horses.
15:53<@Bjarni>you mean I need 750?
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15:53<@Bjarni>oh you meant real horses
15:53<@Bjarni>I thought you meant engine power
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15:54<Prof_Frink>Only 750?
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15:54<LA>here I already have been
15:54<@Bjarni>750 can be a lot
15:54<Prof_Frink>A class 43 has 2,250
15:54<@Bjarni>it depends on how you use it
15:54<LA>and there are only 0.6.1
15:54<Prof_Frink>Beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeem bawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwm!
15:54<LA>a link
15:55<LA>view older releases
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15:55<@Bjarni><Prof_Frink> A class 43 has 2,250 <-- I bet they come at a price
15:55<Prof_Frink>Yeah, they make a very nice loud noise
15:55<LA>and why do I need it? Because most multiplayer hosts are either dumb, stupid or lazy
15:55<LA>and have not updated
15:56<LA>and I feel like playing some mp game
15:57<@Bjarni>class 43 is not listed on railfan :s
15:57<Prof_Frink>It may be under 125 or HST
15:57<LA>rofl on server names: only trains
15:58<LA>or expert-zone
15:58<LA>hardcore - only trains*
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15:58<@Bjarni>that one
15:59<@Bjarni>then I don't even have to look it up
15:59<SmatZ>hardcore - noair noship norv notrains
15:59<@Bjarni>isn't that a bit tricky
15:59<LA>SmatZ: easy
15:59<LA>if it's enaled
16:00<@Bjarni>how will you have a bigger vehicle empire than the other players?
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16:00<LA>richer than others
16:00<@Bjarni>we need airships
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16:00<@Bjarni>horses look funny in SimuTrans
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16:01<@Bjarni>but not very useful
16:01<@Bjarni>they are cheap though
16:01<LA>well livestock looks funny in industrial station set too
16:01<@Bjarni>costs nearly nothing to make one station cover a whole town if you take one horse to connect it
16:04<LA>who is noob enough to leave realistic acceleration off on a server? :o
16:04<LA>Can't find ANY decent servers
16:05<LA>maybe dihedral's fairplay
16:05<@Belugas>or crazy enough to keep it on...
16:05<LA>better than the default one
16:05<@Belugas>matter of perspective ;)
16:07<LA>trains slowing down on corners good
16:07<LA>trains slowing down VERY much on a slope not good
16:08<LA>and that's where my knowledge of the realistic acceleration ends :D
16:08<@Bjarni>slowdown should be a matter of power/weight and such
16:08<@Belugas>matter of perspective, once more...
16:09<@Belugas>don't take YOUR vision of things as THE vision...
16:11<SmatZ>realistic acceleration is good
16:11<SmatZ>but slow
16:11<SmatZ>~10% of CPU time (well, not THAT slow)
16:23<LA>Belugas: May I take it as the my vision?
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16:28<@Belugas>nope. only YOUR , not THE
16:29<@Belugas>DaleStan, peter1138, am I wrong in assuming that variable FD is not free to use, as it is overlapping F2 in ?
16:30<@Belugas>and thus it can be used, in fact
16:30<DaleStan>All 80+x vehicle variables are defined and usable.
16:31<DaleStan>That is, for vehicles, all variables 80..FF have defined values.
16:32<@Belugas>so i need to go the other way, then. like 49, maybe?
16:33<@Belugas>or, to have a more general question: which free var id can i take?
16:33<@Belugas>for vehicle, that is...
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16:35<DaleStan>Depends on the variable. There are actually some spaces in the vehicle structure, so anything that TTDPatch needs to save can go in 80+x. Anything else goes in 40+x or 60+x.
16:36<@Belugas>long format year of counstruction. From year 0, and not from 1920. In Open, it's a value already avaible as it natively
16:37<@Belugas>I doubt it is as native in Patch, tough
16:38<DaleStan>Year or date?
16:40<@Belugas>Year indeed. The equivalent of C4, infact
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16:40<@Belugas>note that date can be introduced too, does not matter. But right now, only year is the subject of the request :)
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16:45<DaleStan>Oh. Never mind. I was miscounting. There's one free byte in that structure. Looks to me like var 49 is the place to put it.
16:45<Maedhros>good night, one and all
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16:45<@Belugas>perfect :) thanks. Slot is reserved. Will be commited (and documented) sometimes during the week
16:46<@Belugas>bye Maedhros :)
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16:46<DaleStan>I was thinking for a while that there were two free bytes.
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16:47<@Belugas>in vehicle structure?
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17:06<DaleStan>Belugas: Yes. TTDPatch has 1 free byte in the vehicle structure. There's a relatively simple, well-defined, system for adding new information (both saved and unsaved) but it doesn't directly increase the data available via 80+x variables.
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17:11<@Belugas>good night all
17:11<@Belugas>thanks DaleStan, btw
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17:20<Eddi|zuHause2><Mchl> technically we have no real night this time of year (and you neither I suppose) <- i'm not sure what you are talking about, but it is completely dark here
17:21<Mido>Would anybody be interested in starting a 0.6.1 multiplayer game? Seeing as hardly any of the servers online have upgraded yet.
17:24<Mido>o rite nobody ever talks here.
17:26<SmatZ>it will take some time
17:26<SmatZ>until people upgrade servers
17:26<SmatZ>I am not sure how many server admins are here
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17:57<DaveWorley>Evening gentlemen.
17:58<Eddi|zuHause2>somebody set up us the bomb... no wait, that was something different :p
17:58<DaveWorley>Hah. Nice, nice.
17:59<DaveWorley>Okay so I'm sure you've all seen my post in OTTD Problems - I'm suspicious that it might be because 0004tom has green squares next to his grfs, whilst mine are blue.
17:59<DaveWorley>Can someone advise regards what I may be doing wrong?
18:00<Eddi|zuHause2>i am going to bed... must get up early
18:03<Ammler>DaveWorley: blue squares ingame?
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18:03<DaveWorley>Well actually, having checked your Wiki, it appears this is standard behaviour.
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18:04<DaveWorley>I'm having trouble activating TTRS in OTTD - although some buildings are appearing (hotel, petrol station), others arenot.
18:04<Ammler>blue are grfs in the list before start
18:04<DaveWorley>What difference does this have to those in green, as I can see in 0004tom's screenshot?
18:05<Ammler>I meant before activating
18:05<Ammler>you need to activate thos, imo
18:05<DaveWorley>And how do I go about this?
18:06<Ammler>the button is called "apply changes"
18:06<Ammler>in the same window right bottom
18:06<DaveWorley>Yes but they still appear as blue even then.
18:07<Ammler>means after start of a new game?
18:07-!-helb [~helb@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:07<DaveWorley>Yes but I would like them active from the start.
18:07<DaveWorley>Which means I don't think this blue/green square difference is relevant.
18:07<Ammler>yeah, they will
18:08<Ammler>every blue before start should become green or red
18:08<DaveWorley>Oh yeah. THey're all green
18:08<DaveWorley>But still no show from the TTRS buildings.
18:09<Ammler>did you try with TTRS only?
18:10<DaveWorley>Yeah. Same again
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18:11<DaveWorley>Getting standard roads, no buildings, etc.
18:11-!-Gekz [] has joined #openttd
18:11<Ammler>DaveWorley: screen?
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18:12<DaveWorley>just a second
18:12<DaveWorley>Will have to upload to the forum because my webspace is malfunctioning at the minute... You can question orudge about that ;)
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18:13<@orudge`>seems fine to me
18:13-!-Gekz_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:13<@orudge`>at least
18:13<@orudge`>my sites are
18:14<DaveWorley>I don't know, hotlinking is allowed across all my webspace
18:14<DaveWorley>But none of the images I was linking to in another forum were working.
18:14<DaveWorley>Possibly a forum issue, but I got frustrated and shouty and gave up.
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18:15<DaveWorley>It doesn't help that I have to use cPanel because of this ridiculous block on FTP usage in these halls.
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18:16<Ammler>DaveWorley: looks like you added TTRS after start
18:16<waldo>got a request ... going in bluntly ;)
18:16<Ammler>oh, forum tells you are using roest patch pack
18:16<DaveWorley>But I added it in the opening screen - I think I may be missing something, do I need to add it before I open the app?
18:16<DaveWorley>Yes... But so does 0004tom, and it works for him.
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18:17<Ammler>DaveWorley: your GRF might be outdated
18:17<Ammler>not compatible with ottd
18:17<Ammler>use 3.02a
18:17<waldo>i'm running openttd on the eeePC .. it only has a 800*480 screen and thus in the intro screen the dialog goes off screen .. i have to use randr (resize and rotate) to put the screen in landscape mode to get beyond that screen .. for the rest it work like a charm
18:18<DaveWorley>Yeah, possibly it. Let me try that - It's been so long since I played I don't remember what I've got of which. I'll let you know in a sec.
18:18<waldo>sry i have to put it in portrait mode to fix it
18:18<DaveWorley>Cheers for that son
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18:21<DaveWorley>Quite. Thank you Ammler.
18:22<Ammler>You are welcome...
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18:22<DaveWorley>It's been so long since I played either flavour of the game that I've forgotten what GRF is at what stage and so on. Updating did sort me out.
18:22<tomas>hey all
18:22<DaveWorley>To the boat! Thank you again.
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18:22<tomas>just a question is there away in openttd to do a sandbox game
18:22<Prof_Frink>tomas: Well, you can cheat
18:23<tomas>and what are the cheats
18:23<Prof_Frink>Fairly obvious.
18:24<Prof_Frink>Well, the window that pops up when you press ctrl-alt-c explains all.
18:24<Ammler>tomas: use that combination and you will see those...
18:25<tomas>ok thanks
18:25<Eddi|zuHause2>waldo: maybe you have an invalid "resolution=XXXX" line in your config file?
18:26<waldo>will try tnx
18:26<Eddi|zuHause2>on such small resoltions it'd probably make sense to start in full screen
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18:36<ooo4tom>any one got any idea;s why Dave isn't able to get TTRS working ?
18:37<ooo4tom>i know it's a patched version, but i'm able too, i habn't got any other ideas :(
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18:40<Sacro>ooo4tom: cos he's "special"
18:40<+glx>ooo4tom: too late :)
18:41<ooo4tom>too late ? you mean it's been solved ?
18:41<+glx>yes he was using an old ttrs
18:42<ooo4tom>lmao hence my post, not 15 minutes ago lol
18:42<Sacro>ooo4tom: and my using?
18:42<ooo4tom>should come here more often
18:42<ooo4tom>pardon ? i don't quite follow ?
18:43<+glx>it's just Sacro
18:44<Sacro>ooo4tom: you said "and your using"...
18:44<Sacro>my response is "and my using"?
18:44<Sacro>it should be you're
18:45<ooo4tom>right, if i've with it, then i say, i'm using TTRSv3.02a is this the answer your looking for :s
18:45<Sacro>"and your using TTRSv3"
18:45<Sacro>and my using TTRSv3 what?
18:46<Sacro>unless you mean you are
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18:46<ooo4tom>sorry dude, you've complety laost me now
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19:02<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13365 /trunk/src/settings.cpp: -Fix: don't segfault on trying to set a non-existing patch setting.
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19:25<blaab>how to load a scenario in linux on dedi? ;s
19:26<blaab>i try the -g thing but no workie
19:26<+glx>same way as for a savegame
19:27<blaab>Game Load Failed
19:27<blaab>File not readable
19:28<+glx>and you can load it in a non dedicated?
19:28<blaab>yea i got same scenario on my pc
19:29<+glx>maybe it has been corrupted during transfert
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19:29<blaab>could be, using wget to get db download links sux balls
19:29*blaab tries ftp
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19:29*Sacro votes for lack of zlib
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19:31<blaab>lol the wgetted one was 187kb the normal one 162 :s
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19:53<blaab>it loads saves, but not scenarios :s
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19:55<blaab>./openttd -g saves\North\ West\ Europe.scn -D ---- ./openttd -g scenario/North\ West\ Europe.scn -D --./openttd -g North\ West\ Europe.scn -D
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20:22<blaab> i dont get it...
20:24<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r13366 /trunk/src/subsidy_gui.cpp: -Fix: clicking in the Subsidies window was broken
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20:49<eemeli>anyone awake
20:50<eemeli>anyone have any ideas on how to optimize my stations exit?
20:50<eemeli>jpg or didnt happen->
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20:51<SmatZ>eemeli: you have too long signal block and you are using 2x45deg turns
20:53<eemeli>can you elaborate
20:54<SmatZ>too steep curves
20:54<SmatZ>most problematic if you use realistic acceleration
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20:55<eemeli>i've tried to avoid any 90 degree curves
20:55<eemeli>and i dont think i have any at that station O_o
20:56<SmatZ>they are too steep anyway
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22:11<@Belugas>i wonder what is wrong with ingame-screenshot utility
22:12<+glx>it's too easy :)
22:13<@Belugas>yeah, something like that :)
22:20<CIA-3>OpenTTD: belugas * r13367 /trunk/src/ (industry_cmd.cpp map.cpp map_func.h town_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: Allow CircularTileSearch function to return the tile where search has been successful, or INVALID_TILE if it has not
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22:40<bpZero>is it possible to stop the ships from sailing through each other
22:44<@Belugas>there are no collision check been performed
22:45<bpZero>will there ever be?
22:45<@Belugas>truely, i really doubt it
22:46<bpZero>what is the reason?
22:46<@Belugas>many :) how much of a crawl ou woiuld like the game to be?
22:46<@Belugas>may i turn it the other way around? why would you like that?
22:46<bpZero>so it slows things down too much
22:47<@Belugas>yes indeed. already, ships are (pathfinding related) a reason of slowlyness
22:48<bpZero>well soon everyone will have 256 cores at 6Ghz and then maybe the ships will solidify
22:48<bpZero>anyway, the only fun is trains in ttd
22:49<bpZero>and some buses/trams to transfer at your tran station
22:49<bpZero>but it's good :)
22:50<bpZero>.. does openttd use multiple cores/cpus at all?
22:50<@Belugas>you see, i would not count on the "soon" cpu stuff ;) and even with a million cpus, OpenTTD will not gain anything, since it is a mono-threaded game, essentially ;)
22:50<bpZero>ah ic, question answered
22:51<@Belugas>ho... seems i answered a question not even asked when i started typing :D
22:55<bpZero>so what is the future of openttd?
22:55<bpZero>stations in tunnels would be nice
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22:55<+glx>tunnels are not real
22:55<@Belugas>the future is ahead on every commits!
22:56<+glx>bridges are not real either ;)
22:56<@Belugas>and stations in tunnels even less real :D
22:56<bpZero>well how do the trains cross the river then?
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22:57<+glx>bridges are like tunnels (black holes) with some extension so you can see them
22:57<@Belugas>what glx means is that in OpenTTD, the bridges are, technically, not really there.
22:57<bpZero>yeah, i think i understand
22:57<bpZero>only the end exist in the map
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22:57<@Belugas>the rest is just not there
22:58<+glx>yes, that's why you can build almost anything under them
22:58<@Belugas>for now.
22:58<@Belugas>who knows what can be done in the future...
22:59<+glx>and that's why you can't have signals on them
22:59<@Belugas>anbd that is why bridges nor tunels cannot bend either
22:59<bpZero>ever think of putting signals on the bridge/tunnel heads?
23:00<+glx>there is/was a branch about that
23:01<bpZero>well that would be good useful
23:01*Sacro will start up a new patch tommorow
23:01<Sacro>it will be phenominal
23:01<+glx>daylength again?
23:01<Sacro>glx: err... no
23:02<@Belugas>putting signals on head/end would not be the proper solution, bpZero. It's merely a plaster on a broken leg, if you see waht i mean
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23:02<@Belugas>Sacro, all my wish of success ;)
23:02<bpZero>well it would give you one more tile
23:02<bpZero>or 2
23:03<bpZero>off the long block
23:03<bpZero>that is something ;)
23:06<CIA-3>OpenTTD: belugas * r13368 /trunk/src/ (newgrf.cpp table/town_land.h town.h town_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: give house's min/max_date a better name, as it is really year, not date
23:07<@Belugas>not really worth the effort, bpZero. TOo much to change just for 2 miserable tiles
23:07<bpZero>so.. how long until version 1.0?
23:07<bpZero>alrigt then
23:07<+glx>usual answer: when it's done
23:07<@Belugas>dunno about 1.0. maybe there will not be one :)
23:08<@Belugas>maybe we'll just go to 0.10 :D
23:08<bpZero>heh, yeah, joke question
23:08<+glx>or 0.99.0
23:08<bpZero>you should just drop the leading 0.
23:08<@Belugas>but but but...
23:08<@Belugas>we like that zero!
23:09<bpZero>heh, every revision is minor?
23:09<@Belugas>ho far from it...
23:09<@Belugas>apart when going from 0.x.y to 0.x.y+1, of course
23:10<@Belugas>those are bug fixes
23:10<bpZero>OpenTTD: belugas * r13368 /trunk/src/ ... 13368
23:10<bpZero>should just use that version number ;)
23:10<+glx>it's already used
23:10<+glx>trunk is now
23:11<bpZero>2 more for leet-o
23:11<Sacro>0.6.9 surely?
23:12<Sacro>oh well, sleepytimes
23:12*glx slaps Sacro
23:12<Sacro>i'm going to bed
23:12*Sacro storms off
23:13*Sacro takes his patch plans with him
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---Logclosed Tue Jun 03 00:00:07 2008