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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-06-16

---Logopened Mon Jun 16 00:00:24 2008
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03:29<planetmaker>good morning everyone
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03:34<ln>good morning, slartibartfast
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03:57<@peter1138>oh really
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05:36<McChicken>hi there
05:36<McChicken>is there anyone who could help me
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05:42<Ammler>funny Chick
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05:47<ln>McChicken: learn to behave on irc.
05:48<McChicken>could anybody help me please
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05:48<ln>McChicken: that is the wrong question, you won't get answers like that.
05:49<ln>McChicken: i'll tell you.
05:50<Tefad>McChicken: on IRC you just ask your question. if anyone is around that can answer, they will.
05:50<Tefad>otherwise you're just flapping in the breeze.
05:50<ln>1. Don't ask if you can ask, just ask.
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05:51<ln>2. Then *wait* patiently. 20 minutes at least, preferably an hour....
05:51<Tefad>oh well
05:51<ln>how about a ban?
05:51<Tefad>impatient person is impatient
05:51<Tefad>reminds me of my wife
05:51<Tefad>impatient AND inattentive
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05:53<ln>btw, McChicken also talked to me privately without being asked to.
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05:56<ben_goodger>probably some ten-year-old
05:56<ben_goodger>I was similar to that, without the multiple ?s
05:56<Eddi|zuHause2>the internet -- where ten-year-olds are FBI agents
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05:58<Gekz>I love idiots.
05:58<ben_goodger>most people do
05:58<ben_goodger>they continually vote for them, for instance
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06:07<Gekz>Vote for the turd sandwich or the giant douche!
06:11<ben_goodger>or indeed don't vote for the giant douche; he'll get elected anyway thanks to a few defective floridian balloting machines
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06:16<Eddi|zuHause2>you haven't watched futurama yet, have you? :p
06:17<ben_goodger>bender's big score was an awful attempt to gain fan loyalty by cramming in as many references to the previous series as possible
06:18<ben_goodger>...although I recognise the possibility that a killer robot from the year 3007 could have come back in time to kill his best friend, and accidentally erased all of gore's votes simultaneously
06:19<Eddi|zuHause2>how else would that have happened?
06:19<ben_goodger>I think it was more likely the voting machines
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06:26<planetmaker>maybe he'll get on it; orders are bothering me ever since we got all those options.
06:26<planetmaker>oh, nvm :P
06:28*Rubidium wonders what functionality requires more clicks than the 'old' GUI except for setting up transfers
06:31<planetmaker>Without meaning to complain: if you play with conditional transfers, time tabled waiting times on stations and then transfer and no load or full load orders, it takes a lot of time to set up a schedule
06:31<planetmaker>and a lot of clicks.
06:32<ccfreak2k>Damn. That fifty dollars could have gotten me
06:32<planetmaker>But I have so far also no good idea how to make the UI better
06:32<ccfreak2k>ONE GALLON OF GAS.
06:32<Gekz>Learn to walk again
06:32<Gekz>I don't have a driver's licence
06:32<Gekz>so i can't get addicted to oil :P
06:33<planetmaker>with better = setting up a schedule with less clicking and less sub menues without getting an ugly and cluttered GUI
06:33<@Rubidium>planetmaker: for all 'basic' things you don't need sub menus
06:33<@Rubidium>full load: single click, unload: single click, default non-stop: single click
06:34<@Rubidium>goto: single click
06:34<Eddi|zuHause2><Gekz> so i can't get addicted to oil :P <- how many things made of plastic do you own?
06:34<planetmaker>Rubidium: yes, but even then for a normal order like goto xy with full load and goto ab with unload you need two 4 per order entry
06:34<Vikthor>Gekz: You surely grow your own food using only animal or human force then.
06:34<ben_goodger>ccfreak2k: hundred dollars, you philistine :P
06:34<planetmaker>e.g. those clicks: goto, station, load menu, full order
06:35<Gekz>Vikthor: I use 6 africans
06:35<Vikthor>And certainly you do NOT shop at the supemarket ;)
06:35<ben_goodger>ccfreak2k: and I think we'll be lucky if it stays below 100 by 2012
06:36<@Rubidium>planetmaker: there isn't a more efficient way of doing that, except using keyboard shortcut
06:36<@Rubidium>which already exist
06:36<ccfreak2k>Yeah it was one of those.
06:36<ben_goodger>no, it was 100
06:36<Eddi|zuHause2>like 10 years ago, i read estimates that the oil reserves run out by 2020
06:36<planetmaker>hm... they must have eluded me so far. Can you point me to a place where they're summarized for the orders menues?
06:37<ben_goodger>Eddi|zuHause2: that's pretty much on track
06:37<ben_goodger>might be 2025 if we're lucky.
06:37<ben_goodger>uranium will be about 2030-2035, and then we're screwed
06:37<planetmaker>besides that, I'm pretty sure there *is* a more efficient way - but I just don't know how, given the boundary conditions
06:38<planetmaker>e.g. the functionality of the quick goto patch is IMO a step in the direction of a quicker orders GUI.
06:39<@Rubidium>that's only for the first order
06:39<planetmaker>for the first time you give orders. Not the first order only
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06:40<planetmaker>e.g. keeping the goto button selected continues to work until you close the orders window
06:42<Eddi|zuHause2>what i found an annoying usability regression (i think since the moving of orders got in (long time ago)) was that when you click on "go to" and then on an order where you want to insert a new order, it looses the "go to" selection
06:44<ccfreak2k>That seems like a five second fix.
06:44<planetmaker>can you show me, ccfreak2k ?
06:45<ccfreak2k>I don't have the code.
06:45<ccfreak2k>Or the will.
06:45<ccfreak2k>I've just learned to work around it.
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06:46<Eddi|zuHause2>i don't want to "work around" stuff
06:46<planetmaker>things are not necessarily as easy as they may seem...
06:47<Eddi|zuHause2>i used the order list like that for 10 years...
06:47<Eddi|zuHause2>or more
06:53<ccfreak2k>Maybe it's order_gui.cpp
06:54<ccfreak2k>/** @file order_gui.cpp GUI related to orders. */
06:54<ccfreak2k>I see they value descriptive comments.
06:55<planetmaker>I'm pretty sure it's in that file :)
06:56<Maedhros>that comment is pretty much only there so Doxygen parses the file
06:57<ccfreak2k>Maybe it's OrderClick_Goto()
06:58<ccfreak2k>Now if only I knew what was happening inside that function.
07:00<Eddi|zuHause2>i'm sure it is well documented :p
07:01<Gekz>I be hating
07:01<Gekz>Eddi|zuHause2: why is there a pipe symbol in your name
07:01<Gekz>I've always wondered
07:01<Gekz>Eddi at home 2?
07:02<Eddi|zuHause2>because just "Eddi" is likely to be taken in almost any network
07:02<ccfreak2k>Eddi|zuHause2, it's not the lack of documentation (the code explains itself, really), it's the lack of my knowledge of C.
07:02<Gekz>Eddi|zuHause2: it's not taken here.
07:02<Eddi|zuHause2>languages are all alike...
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07:21<Ammler># und heut Abend
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09:43<@peter1138>you're just too physical, physical to me
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09:51<Ammler>peter1138: I did now the "fast" train and found a small description glitch:
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09:51<Ammler>(speed in the buy window)
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09:55<ccfreak2k>I wouldn't mind a train that could go 65,535 KPH.
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09:56<Gekz>I would.
09:56<Maedhros>Ammler: how did you get a speed of 65,918 km/h? speed is a word value...
09:56<Maedhros>unless this is due to conversion from km/h to mph and back again with slightly different conversion factors
09:57<Maedhros>fair enough
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09:57<SpComb>magic numbers
09:57<Gekz>there it goes
09:57<Gekz>look at it go
09:57<Gekz>nope too late
09:57<Gekz>its GONE
09:59<Nite>... just for the record, send to depot (expect with depot orders) almost anytime desyncs me in 061 ...
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10:00<ccfreak2k>Coincidentally, 65,535 KPH is about mach 53.
10:00<Ammler>ccfreak2k: I made it for logic gates: <-- not
10:01<Pikka>Maedhros: the speed unit for trains in TTD is mph*1.6, not km/h
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10:01<TiberiusTeng>ahh ... get the texture atlas & palette animation done, then I probably put an 'alpha' build of OpenGL blitter for test ...
10:01<Pikka>it was km/h for a while in OTTD, but I think that got fixed. ;)
10:01<Eddi|zuHause2>53 = 42+10+1; 2*10+4-1=23
10:02<Eddi|zuHause2>now THAT is a coincidence :p
10:03<Eddi|zuHause2>imho that "fix" is stupid
10:03<TiberiusTeng>I finally discovered that switching textures are the cause of slowdown on OpenGL blitter, what a shame ...
10:03<Maedhros>Pikka: aha, that makes sense :)
10:03<@peter1138>combine sprites? heh
10:04<Vikthor>Eddi|zuHause2: It has to be so to maintain compatibility with existing NewGRF
10:04<Eddi|zuHause2>that is a questionable design goal
10:05<ccfreak2k>Ammler, what kind of gate is in that image?
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10:08<TiberiusTeng>peter1138, I think a 2048x2048 can accomodate original TTD sprites
10:08<TiberiusTeng>but not so sure for many NewGRF sets ...
10:08<Pikka>Eddi: whereas arbitrarily and pointlessly changing the meaning of widely-used values is good practice?
10:09<TiberiusTeng>and for now it seems spritecache will reload every sprites when loading game, creating a new game or returning to the title screen (i.e. pass them to blitter's Encode() function)
10:09<TiberiusTeng>but not releasing them at all (only depend on memory usage I believe?)
10:09<Eddi|zuHause2>Pikka: no, but reducing the amount of arbitrary and pointless conversions to clean up the code is
10:09<@peter1138>well you'll need a clean up routine, heh
10:10<@peter1138>the conversions are only for display porpoises anyway
10:10<TiberiusTeng>I haven't dig into NewGRF, GFX, scriptcache parts yet! the blitter part is already complex enough ...
10:11<Pikka>if it's in mph it has to convert to show kph, if it's kph it has to convert to show mph. same amount of conversion either way.
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10:11<Eddi|zuHause2>but it is in neither mph nor kph
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10:12<TiberiusTeng>I'm using blitter's Encode() to transform sprites into OpenGL textures ... seems not the best choice, but I don't think fitting OpenGL texture management into spritecache is a good solution
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10:12<@peter1138>probably not, no
10:13<Pikka>with mp*1.6, 0x80 = 80mph, etc. :P
10:13<Eddi|zuHause2>that's the most stupid reason you could come up with...
10:13<TiberiusTeng>anyway, I'm wondering why spritecache keep re-encoding the same sprite without releasing the old version
10:14<TiberiusTeng>(after NewGRF settings has changed, loaded a game, returned to title screen, etc.)
10:14<Pikka>well, actually the reason is because that's the way it's coded in TTD, so changing it breaks the default vehicles (and every grf set ever). but whatever.
10:14<@peter1138>TiberiusTeng: for the current blitters the memory is freed, and no additional clean up is necessary
10:15<Eddi|zuHause2>imho, shifting a few values by 1 is not such a big deal that it should be considered "breaking"
10:15<TiberiusTeng>yes. I added a hook near spritecache's free() part to call up my OpenGL blitter, but I never come across it actually 'releasing' sprites
10:16<Eddi|zuHause2>besides, sets like DBSetXL would actually benefit from changing speeds from 59, 69, 99 to 60, 70, 100 km/h
10:17<TiberiusTeng>I think spritecache's using (only) LRU and memory size limit to cleanup sprites ...
10:19<TiberiusTeng>... ahh, I found it. a big free() in GfxInitSpriteMem() ...
10:19<TiberiusTeng>that's too bad
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10:43<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13532 /branches/noai/src/ai/ (ai_threads.cpp api/ai_object.cpp): [NoAI] -Fix: in MultiPlayer SignID wasn't set correctly, causing weird effects. Code is now more unified, which should avoid simular effects in the future (tnx to glx for initial patch)
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11:01<@peter1138>TiberiusTeng: as i said, you'll need to add stuff there :)
11:03<ccfreak2k>TiberiusTeng, is OpenGL supposed to improve performance, or is it just an alternate video driver?
11:06<TiberiusTeng>I hope it can improve performance, but for now it's slower than 32bpp-optimized/32bpp-anim.
11:06<TiberiusTeng>it's some kind of proof-of-concept/pre-alpha now ...
11:08<TiberiusTeng>well prettier transparent view, station roof and newspaper's a plus too ;)
11:09<TiberiusTeng>but it's meaningless if it's still (or even more) CPU-bound
11:09<@peter1138>what would be nice is to use z-index
11:09<@peter1138>to remove the need for sprite sorting
11:09<@peter1138>but that would need a lot more changes
11:10<TiberiusTeng>yep ... for now I try to constrain myself at blitter level
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11:26<ln>does "X bought the farm" mean "X died"?
11:27<@Belugas>that is a very strange question...
11:27<@Belugas>i fail to see thr connection
11:27<@SmatZ>hey I bought the farm ! :-D
11:27<ln>not at all, it's related to English, which is on topic.
11:28<Pikka>yes, it does ln
11:29<ccfreak2k>In typical slang, yes.
11:29<ln>great. thank you.
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11:32<Swallow>I'm doing some experimenting with editing the openttd scource...
11:33<Swallow>is it possible to write stuff to the console?
11:34<Swallow>if it is, please tell me how :)
11:34<SpComb>the debug functions?
11:35<Swallow>i don't know exactly
11:36<Swallow>i just need something like print() in php
11:36<Maedhros>which OS are you using?
11:36<SpComb>it depends on what kind of stuff you're trying to write
11:36<Touqen>You can do printf, or you use DEBUG to print to the debug console.
11:37<Swallow>k thanks i'll look some stuff op later, going to dinner now
11:40<@Belugas>ln, i was referring to the relationship of the two sentences. That is waht i found strange
11:40<@Belugas>now, i was not aware it was slang
11:40<ccfreak2k>It's an idiom. An old one.
11:41<skidd13>Swallow: Hmm printf
11:41<ccfreak2k>Dates back to at least WWII, probably earlier.
11:41<skidd13>Swallow: ->
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11:42<Pikka>a conflation of "to buy it" and "to become a landowner" (where the land in question is a cemetary plot), apparently.
11:43<SpComb>if OpenTTD provides some kind of debug-output layer, then you should use that instead of printf directly
11:43<ln>"X bought the farm" was used occasionally in Robert Heinlein's novel Starship Troopers.
11:44<ccfreak2k>Another possible history is the fact that death benefits would be paid, which could be enough to pay off a mortgage for a house...or farm.
11:44<skidd13>SpComb: true... but that's mostly used for "ingame" debug... printf is IMO faster for dev debug, but thats personal ;)
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11:49<@peter1138>ln, yes
11:59<ccfreak2k>YAPP looks really cool.
11:59<@peter1138>it is. why ":(" ?
12:01<ccfreak2k>Because I'd have to patch openttd to use it.
12:01<@Belugas>Someone told me during the weekend that it has desynched, on a coop game
12:02<ccfreak2k>Well I play offline anyway.
12:03<@Belugas>that is irrelevant. If there is a problem, it has to be fixed. We can not release something that works only for offline players. I hope you do understand that :)
12:04<ccfreak2k>I never asked/demanded it to be released.
12:04<@Belugas>note that said desynch report might not be related to YAPP at all, for what it's worth...
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12:19<+michi_cc>Belugas: a desync directly related to YAPP is rather unlikely because there isn't any randomness in YAPP. It's of course entirely possible that I'm using some pre-existing functionallity in a not-quite-as-designed way leading to desyncs.
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12:19<@peter1138>i reckon committing it will find it quicker ;)
12:19<+michi_cc>of course, it would help if such errors are actually reported to me. and without any savegame there's exactly zero I can do
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12:35<@Belugas>GRANTED michi_cc
12:35-!-Osai is now known as Osai`off
12:35<@Belugas>granted michi_cc
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12:35-!-mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ
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12:37<@Belugas>toolbar_gui is a nest of hardcoded nyumbers
12:37-!-Osai is now known as Osai^Kendo
12:38<Dr_Link>So, Chris Sawyer's Locomotion or the original Transport Tycoon Deluxe. Which one do you find more fun?
12:39<@Belugas>OpenTTD all the way :)
12:39<Prof_Frink>Well, seeing as I played TTO (Not even D) for more than ten minutes, TTD.
12:40<@peter1138>oin te oin
12:40<@peter1138>pom te pom
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12:42<Dr_Link>Locomotion wasn't that bad
12:42<Dr_Link>in fact, it got me into The TT series.
12:43<Dr_Link>Why does everyone seem to think that Locomotion was bad?
12:43<Dr_Link>That's like saying... "Dig Dug" was bad when it first came out.
12:43<@SmatZ>why do you think so?
12:44<Dr_Link>why do I think so what?
12:44<@Belugas>why do you think everything seem to think Locomotion was bad?
12:45<@SmatZ>why do you think people dislike Locomotion?
12:48<Dr_Link>because everywhere I look up Locomotion related information, it usually says somewhere that the author preferred TT(D) more.
12:49<Dr_Link>I liked Locomotion a lot, though, and most people didn't like it because of the interface. I guess it came naturally for me because I played Chris Sawyer's RollerCoaster Tycoon first.
12:49<@Belugas>good point
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12:49<@Belugas>most of the time, people complain about the interface
12:50<Dr_Link>screw that, it was EASY For me.
12:50<Dr_Link>And TTD wasn't that hard to figure out either.
12:50<@Belugas>screw what? people judgment and experience of playing?
12:50<@Belugas>sorry, but srew you then
12:51<@Belugas>don't judge people based on your own perception
12:51<Dr_Link>no, screw the opinion of people who said it was the most horrible game ever because of one or two design flaws.
12:51<@Belugas>this is silly
12:51<Dr_Link>I found one that was 1/5 stars on the game because they didn't like the lack of sub-toolbars.
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12:51<Dr_Link>I'd say the new system is a bit better because you have an idea of where it goes in a linear form (because trains do move in a linear fashion) instead of just laying down random track... it also prevents those terrible mis-alignment mistakes.
12:51<Dr_Link>that's why it came natrually for me.
12:52<Dr_Link>I had a bit of a learning curve learning TTD.
12:52<@Belugas>you are entirely entitled to like it. it is your opinion and your right. do not deny those who are not in accordance with your views, please
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12:53<Dr_Link>I suppose I did deny it. But, on the same token, if they were in my position they would have done the same to me.
12:56<@Belugas>granted, but they are not in your position. for the record, i tried loco before touching ttd. it did not felt as natural as ttd was. and my gaming experience was one of Myst (and others of the series). And other games back in the 1980s, if ou see waht i mean
12:56<@Belugas>so i sticked to ttd because i wanted to play long hours with an interface that was nice and clean for me. that's how i felt and still do
12:57<@Belugas>so, really, a personnal situation
12:58<Dr_Link>I suppose, from my standpoint, there are a lot of diverse personal situations out there
12:58<Dr_Link>I started with Sawyer's RCT series.
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12:58<Dr_Link>But I jumped to the TT series when RCT3 came out because... well, I say the interface sucks on this game just as much as what other people think about Locomotion's!!
13:01<@Belugas>so this is why debates over personnal preferences is basically not sane at all
13:02<@Belugas>yu can argue about something that is based on logic
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13:02<@Belugas>but as soon as the emotional part kicks in, it's useless
13:03*Bjarni wonders about a system to enforce proper speaking on TV
13:03<@Bjarni>they just talked about the US state of Missiffifi (or something like that)
13:03<@Belugas>close the TV, then :)
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13:04<@Bjarni>Belugas: actually I was thinking about other people
13:04-!-lobster_MB [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:04<@Belugas>don't care about them. care abuot yourself
13:04<@Bjarni>I know how to speak but I bet when some people hear it incorrect then they will speak incorrect
13:05<CIA-3>OpenTTD: skidd13 * r13533 /trunk/src/ (bridge_gui.cpp town_gui.cpp): -Codechange: Replace direct class member access of GUIList with the appropriate function calls
13:05<@Bjarni>you see somebody got the idea to replace a certain word by another word (a made up one that sounded somewhat like it) and now it's fairly common that people can't figure out to say the right one
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13:06<@Bjarni>I mean you hear politicians and other important people on TV/radio using the incorrect one
13:06<@Bjarni>Hello Mchl
13:06*peter1138 plays with ZynAddSubFX
13:07<@Bjarni>btw how do you say Mchl?
13:07<@Bjarni>My Polish isn't good enough to figure it out on my own :(
13:07-!-Zahl [] has joined #openttd
13:08<@peter1138>how do you pronounce bjarni?
13:08<Zahl>like byarny
13:08-!-gousty [] has joined #openttd
13:08<@Bjarni>like it's spelled :)
13:09<@peter1138>buh-jar-nee then
13:09-!-murr4y [murray@2001:470:1f0a:1be::ea7:beef] has joined #openttd
13:09<@peter1138>j is not y in english
13:10<Mchl>Bjarni: You spell it
13:10<CIA-3>OpenTTD: skidd13 * r13534 /trunk/src/ (group_gui.cpp vehicle_gui.cpp): -Codechange: Replace the main part of VehiclesListBase sorting with GUIList function calls
13:10<Zahl>yeah thats why i replaced it :P
13:10<Mchl>it's my name stripped of vowels
13:10<@Bjarni>so you are named Amichel?
13:10<Mchl>err... not really
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13:11<Prof_Frink>peter1138's real name is peteriieb, but the's trying to be 1337.
13:11<CIA-3>OpenTTD: skidd13 * r13535 /trunk/src/sortlist_type.h:
13:11<CIA-3>OpenTTD: -Codechange: Protect GUIList internals
13:11<CIA-3>OpenTTD: -Fix: VL_FIST_SORT should be set after list rebuild too
13:11<Mchl>not good
13:11<@peter1138>skidd13: separate commits!
13:11<Mchl>that's closer
13:11<Zahl>my nick is my name stripped of consonants
13:11<skidd13>peter1138: .... :( sorry
13:11<Zahl>err wait...
13:12<Mchl>Michel is my name in French
13:12<@Bjarni>why French?
13:12<Mchl>in polish it's Micha³
13:12<@Belugas>because some people might be French...
13:12<pavel1269>so glx was right
13:13<Mchl>apart from l-³ issue
13:13<@peter1138>Prof_Frink is really prof-underscore-frink
13:13<@Bjarni><Mchl> in polish it's Micha³ <-- then why isn't your nick Micha?
13:13<@peter1138>³ is not a letter :D
13:13<+glx>my keyborad doesn't have weird chars
13:13<@Bjarni>--- micha :No such nick/channel
13:13<pavel1269>i cant type "³" ... only with ctrl + c ... ;)
13:14<Prof_Frink>You mean mmb
13:14<@Bjarni><glx> my keyborad doesn't have weird chars <-- like π and ° and ?
13:14<Maedhros>i can't even see � ;)
13:14<Maedhros>'tis not in my font
13:14<Prof_Frink>I can see it.
13:14<@SmatZ>yeah, I see it, too
13:14<Prof_Frink>It's a question mark in a diamond.
13:14<@SmatZ>nice square
13:14<Mchl>try to pronounce that
13:15*Prof_Frink straightens out glx's character
13:15<Mchl>here's article about strange letter:
13:16<+glx>that's what I typed
13:16<Prof_Frink>Well, why didn't you say that?
13:16<Mchl>and if you wan't to pronounce my name say: me how
13:16<Mchl>in english
13:16-!-Osai^Kendo is now known as Osai^Kendo`off
13:16<Prof_Frink>Mchl is a cat.
13:16<Mchl>a cat?
13:17<Mchl>that's how my cousins from USA call me... yes...'
13:18<Sacro>SmatZ: it's not a square
13:18<@Bjarni> <-- this is what it looks like on my monitor
13:18<@Bjarni>and yes all the chars I wrote are on my keyboard
13:19<Prof_Frink>Bjarni: The char you copypasta'd came out as superscript 3
13:19-!-Osai^Kendo`off is now known as Osai
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13:20<Mchl>yeah, that happens
13:20<@Bjarni>looking at the png I noticed a typo >_<
13:20<@Bjarni>which I didn't notice until now
13:21<Mchl>it's ISO-8859-1 and ISO-8859-2 compatibility
13:21<@Bjarni>in case you are unable to figure it out :P
13:21<Mchl>or lack of it actually :P
13:22<@Bjarni>oh like that
13:22<+glx>Mchl: topic says UTF8
13:22<Mchl>once I got my debit card with 3 superscript instead of proper letter
13:23<Prof_Frink>That'll be you UTFail8ing.
13:23<@Bjarni>specially if they were the pin code
13:24<Mchl>my client says it's UTF-8...
13:24<Prof_Frink>How murky.
13:25-!-Phoenix_the_II [] has joined #openttd
13:25<Mchl>I'll just stick to ASCII, to avoid further confusion...
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13:26<pavel1269>can anyone help me with getting squirrel to work? :X i am confused about that very much ...
13:27<Prof_Frink>Feed it nuts.
13:27<@Bjarni>only a dick would do that
13:27<Sacro>Bjarni: you'd know
13:28<CIA-3>OpenTTD: belugas * r13536 /trunk/src/toolbar_gui.cpp:
13:28<CIA-3>OpenTTD: -Codechange: Bit shifting is not really required when you know exactly the value to use.
13:28<CIA-3>OpenTTD: Even more when it's a parameter.
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13:35<pavel1269>noone here works in squirrel or trying to make own AI? :/
13:35*dih has  too ;-)
13:36<dih>pavel1269: whats the matter?
13:36<dih>got issues with sq?
13:36<+glx>pavel1269: there's #openttd.noai for that
13:37<pavel1269>oh, thx
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14:05<@Belugas>there... refreshed ->
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14:17*peter1138 checks
14:17<@peter1138>yay, less magic :D
14:18<@peter1138>though that GfxFillRect is a bit mystic
14:18<@peter1138>unrelated to the patch of course :)
14:18<@Belugas>many more are needed to be fixed and documented, by the way
14:18<@Belugas>all that drop down stuff, for instance
14:19<@Belugas>Gfx... got to scratch it a bit now...
14:19<@Belugas>next patch tough
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15:31<@peter1138>in my profiling
15:32<@peter1138>of pile transport
15:32<@peter1138>for 1000 ticks
15:32<@peter1138>trunk: 8.23 seconds
15:32<@peter1138>yapp: 6.11 seconds
15:32<Ammler>how to change that, so we would also see the train number? assert(IsFrontEngine(v));
15:33<Ammler>we have asserts with yapp all the time
15:33<Ammler>I think, It would help, if we know, which vehicle that was.
15:33<@peter1138>if (!IsFrontEngine(v)) error("somethingsomething %d", v->unitnumber); or something like that
15:33<Ammler>would you print something else?
15:34<Ammler>can I include that only serverside?
15:34<@Belugas>what about "whateveryouwant" ?
15:34<Ammler>what do you want?
15:35<@Rubidium>peter1138: odd results, I got the opposite result (using gprof)
15:36<@peter1138>trunk: 1.94 3.46 0.16 12679237 0.00 0.00 Train::GetImage(Direction) const
15:36<@peter1138>yapp: 3.03 2.13 0.19 12676062 0.00 0.00 Train::GetImage(Direction) const
15:36<@peter1138>some things are different
15:36<@peter1138>but overall it's less
15:36<@peter1138>maybe more than a 1000 ticks is needed
15:38<@peter1138>oh, and more than one run each? heh
15:38<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r13537 /trunk/src/ (14 files in 3 dirs): -Fix [FS#2090](r13523): QSortT won't work this way, use Dimension instead of uint16[2] for resolutions
15:39<@peter1138>what save did you profile? pile?
15:39<@Rubidium>my conclusion was: about 20% extra time used by TrainController
15:39<@Rubidium>peter1138: one of the pile's yes
15:39<@peter1138>5.83% for traincontroller itself in trunk
15:39<@peter1138>5.89% for traincontroller in yapp
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15:40<@peter1138>but i haven't looked at what's change inside the function
15:40-!-ecke [~ecke@] has joined #openttd
15:40<@peter1138>it could be half as long for all i know :)
15:40<@Rubidium>did you run with the same config?
15:41-!-Osai`off is now known as Osai
15:41<Ammler>would it also help, if we create a save right before the assert?
15:42<@peter1138>yes, same config
15:42<@peter1138>everything common is all in ~/.openttd
15:43<@Rubidium>or michi_cc silently reduces the impact
15:44<+glx>Ammler: a save right before an assert is always good
15:44<@peter1138>using ./configure --enable-profiling=1
15:44<Ammler>glx: can I include a function to create that?
15:45<Ammler>or is that too late then?
15:45<@peter1138>if you know it's going to crash then it is already too late
15:45<@Rubidium>move autosave to daily and don't thread it
15:46<+glx>the best way is to use an msvc release
15:46<+glx>on assert it creates a dump
15:46<Ammler>michi_cc: asked for save, but we are not albe to reproduce it, it just happens areound every 3-4 h
15:47<Ammler>glx: server is the only one, which asserts, afaik
15:47<Ammler>and that is a linux one.
15:49<Ammler>Rubidium: how do I "not thread it"?
15:49<+glx>the assert should happen on clients too
15:50<Ammler>but we just lose connection and go back to start screen
15:50<Ammler>oh, it might be some clients crahses too
15:50<@Rubidium>that sounds like a desync too
15:51<@Rubidium>if the server dies in an assert in the 'game code', then the clients must die too
15:51<@Rubidium>otherwise they are in desync
15:52<Ammler>Rubidium: well, I am not sure anymore
15:52<Ammler>myself wasn't connected.
15:56<@Bjarni>hmmm.... great route planning tool. I just typed in that I need to go from station A to station B (basically) and I want to know which departure that fits my time needs. It would take 6-8 minutes by train but it did manage to recommend a 20 minute bus ride o_O
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16:08<CIA-3>OpenTTD: frosch * r13538 /trunk/src/viewport.cpp: -Fix (r12740)[FS#2087]: ChildSprites of foundations are not necessarily consecutive.
16:08<Ammler>Rubidium: daily autosave?
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16:16<CIA-3>OpenTTD: glx * r13539 /trunk/src/video/win32_v.cpp: -Fix (r13537): signed/unsigned warnings
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16:26*Belugas yawns
16:26*Belugas stretches
16:26*Belugas wants to go home
16:27<Touqen_>Want to quit my job for me?
16:27-!-Touqen_ is now known as Touqen
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16:28<@Belugas>you would not be able to sustain it a week ;)
16:28<@Belugas>plus, you need to know Delphi!
16:28<@Belugas>and payment processing
16:28<@Belugas>and that is a bitch ;)
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16:35<@Bjarni>Belugas: yeah... a whole lot of people understands shit about payment processing and considers it a bitch
16:35<@Bjarni>but I guess the latter is mainly due to their own economical skills.... or lack hereof :P
16:36*Belugas nods
16:36<@Bjarni>a fellow student once told me that students are so poor that all of them have to have negative amounts on the bank account
16:37-!-[alt]buster [] has joined #openttd
16:37<@Bjarni>which has to be positive on the first every month
16:38<@Bjarni>I don't get that.... wouldn't it be wiser to use the same amount every month and then make sure it would not reach negative values so you will avoid the not so nice fees they charge?
16:38<@Bjarni>I mean the fee for using more money than you have is really nasty.... you should really work on avoiding it
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16:40<@Bjarni>wow..... I just found some "special" desktop wallpapers online... They are special in the way that they work on both windows and mac
16:40<@Bjarni>err.... are there any wallpapers that are windows only or mac only? :)
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16:41<@Bjarni>last time I checked it's just an image so it would work with any OS
16:41<@Bjarni>except freeDOS :P
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16:41<Chrill>Bjarni, do not underestimate the power of special desktop wallpapers
16:42<@Bjarni>I just downloaded one
16:42<@Bjarni>turns out to be an 800x600 jpg
16:42<Chrill>Wow, that is truly impressive
16:42<Chrill>(wasn't that a normal computer screen 15 years ago?)
16:43<ln>Bjarni: are those wallpapers compatible with both intel and ppc, too?
16:43-!-Osai`off is now known as Osai
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16:44<@Bjarni>considering they show stuff of Spore, which is for Intel OSX only I don't think they tested it on PPC
16:45*Rubidium wonders whether my 6637 by 3787 tiff background image would work on OSX or Windows
16:45<Eddi|zuHause>my computer is totally fucked up today...
16:45-!-Chrill [] has quit []
16:45<@Bjarni><Chrill> (wasn't that a normal computer screen 15 years ago?) <--- I upgraded to 640x400 14 years ago
16:45-!-Eddi|zuHause2 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:46<@Bjarni>didn't get anything bigger than 640x480 until 10 years ago (but then I changed the max resolution to 1600x1200)
16:49<Eddi|zuHause>the first screen that i remember could already do 640x480
16:50<Eddi|zuHause>that must have been in the early 90's
16:50<Eddi|zuHause>the problem was graphics cards back then
16:51<Eddi|zuHause>they could do 640x480 only in 16 colours, so most games did 320x200 with 256 colours instead (like civ)
16:53-!-Maedhros [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
16:54<Eddi|zuHause>hm... can i remount / as ro on a running system?
16:56<@Rubidium>mount -o remount,ro /dev/?d??
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16:59<Eddi|zuHause>that says it's busy (of course)
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17:00<Eddi|zuHause>i have a bad feeling that one of my harddisks is going to fail very soon
17:01<Eddi|zuHause>but i have an important presentation tomorrow, so i don't have a lot of time to take care of it
17:02<Eddi|zuHause>so i wanted to take a backup of / before it's too late, and i'd rather have it ro before dd-ing
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17:10<@Bjarni><Eddi|zuHause> they could do 640x480 only in 16 colours <-- heh... I used 640x400 in monocrome
17:10<@Bjarni>aka 1 bit colours
17:11<@Bjarni>it actually looked nice
17:11<@Bjarni>believe it or not
17:11<@Bjarni>* Rubidium wonders whether my 6637 by 3787 tiff background image would work on OSX or Windows <-- it would work on OSX as it has a feature that allows it to scale images to fit the screen :)
17:12<@Rubidium>but does it support tiffs ootb?
17:13<@Bjarni>I think there is tiff support
17:13<@Bjarni>what is ootb?
17:14<@Rubidium>out of the box
17:14<ln>out of the bjarni
17:14<@Bjarni>then I would say yes
17:14<@Bjarni>and ignore ln :P
17:15*Rubidium slaps Bjarni for mentioning someone on an ignore list
17:16<@Bjarni>ignore list
17:16<@Bjarni>now you are talking
17:16*Bjarni updates his ignore list
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17:17<ln>in denmark, ignore lists are written on papyrus.
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17:21<Eddi|zuHause><Bjarni> <Eddi|zuHause> they could do 640x480 only in 16 colours <-- heh... I used 640x400 in monocrome <- of course nobody cares for my _real_ problems :p
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17:22<@Bjarni>I learned ages ago not to care for people's issues if they show up online to talk about them
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17:24<@Bjarni>for all I know you are getting online from a mental institute where some doctor is experimenting in getting mentally unstable people to become mentally stable by caring for people on IRC
17:26<Touqen>The interwebs is a great place to vent.
17:26<Touqen>It's like a "Anonymous Anonymous"
17:42<Eddi|zuHause><Bjarni> for all I know you are getting online from a mental institute where some doctor is experimenting in getting mentally unstable people to become mentally stable by caring for people on IRC <<- for all I know, that could be an exact description of you.
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17:54<@Bjarni>Eddi|zuHause: no way
17:54<@Bjarni>I'm coding stuff
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17:54<@Bjarni>so if that were really true then I would either not be able to code or I would code full time
17:55<@Bjarni>I can code and I lack time to code which means that I got other stuff to do
17:55<@Bjarni>so I'm not locked up :)
17:55<@Bjarni>and right now I have something else to do
17:55<@Bjarni>which is called sleep
17:56<@Bjarni>or regenerating depending on your race
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18:30<Ammler>oh, error does also asser, hmm
18:33<Ammler>v->unitnumber gave 0
18:34<Ammler>is there something else to identify "v"?
18:34<@Rubidium>unitnumber is not something that identifies a vehicle
18:34<@Rubidium>you could use the VehicleID though
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18:45<@SmatZ>Ammler: you may use v->First()->unitnumber
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18:45<@SmatZ>to know what was the "unitnumber" of the consist
18:45<@SmatZ>but yeah, v->index is unique
18:46<Ammler>SmatZ: I thought, if I know, which train is quilty for the assert, if would be easier to reproduce
18:47<@SmatZ>Ammler: v->index identifies vehicle (it can be a loco, wagon, road vehicle, ship, effect vehicle, invalid vehicle ,. ...)
18:47<@SmatZ>v->First()->unitnumber is the number in game
18:47<@SmatZ>like "Train 650"
18:48<@SmatZ>v->unitnumber is zero for non-front engines (and wagons)
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22:26<CIA-3>OpenTTD: belugas * r13540 /trunk/src/toolbar_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Less a magic number and a more adaptable code
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22:33<CIA-3>OpenTTD: belugas * r13541 /trunk/src/toolbar_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Aligning some switch case. Code cosmetics.
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23:13<CIA-3>OpenTTD: belugas * r13542 /trunk/src/toolbar_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Less a few more magic numbers and a code a bit more adaptable, still
23:20<CIA-3>OpenTTD: belugas * r13543 /trunk/src/toolbar_gui.cpp:
23:20<CIA-3>OpenTTD: -Codechange: Enumification of the InGame toolbar and some leftovers of scenario editor one.
23:20<CIA-3>OpenTTD: Still more go do
23:20<@Belugas>and what if i'd go for some sleep now?
23:20<@Belugas>might be a good idea...
23:20<murr4y>good work Belugas :>
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---Logclosed Tue Jun 17 00:00:59 2008