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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-07-12

---Logopened Sat Jul 12 00:00:58 2008
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04:42<dih>lag :P
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05:25<Helion>Hi there
05:25<Helion>[root@home Transport Tycoon Deluxe]# openttd
05:25<Helion>No protocol specified
05:25<Helion>No protocol specified
05:25<Helion>the game doesn`t start
05:25<Helion>although everything was fine yesterday
05:25<Helion>any ideas?
05:27<Eddi|zuHause3>don't play games as root
05:28<Helion>it doesn`t work using a normal user either
05:28<Eddi|zuHause3>i didn't suggest that ;)
05:28<Helion>I just tried it with root afret reinstalling
05:28<Eddi|zuHause3>try starting with -d3
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05:29<Helion>seems to be working fine thank you
05:29<Eddi|zuHause3>-d3 doesn't actually change anything... it just makes the output more verbose
05:30<Alberth>"No protocol" is not in my openttd binary, must have been something else
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05:30<Helion>well it runs with d3
05:30<Eddi|zuHause3>then it should run without d3
05:31<Helion>Will it be easier for me to play if I set the numer of towns and industrie to very low, terrain to very flat?
05:31<Helion>I`m a beginner and it is a bit hard for me to play on the huge map
05:31<Eddi|zuHause3>depends on what you're trying to do
05:31<Helion>I`m trying to get the idea of the game :)
05:32<Eddi|zuHause3>start with transporting coal ;)
05:32<ccfreak2k>Strange game.
05:32<Alberth>start with something small, eg 256x512 or 256x1024, with normal industries and normal towns, and flat land
05:32<ccfreak2k>Seems the only winning move is not to play.
05:33<Alberth>ccfreak2k: try to find the second best move :)
05:41<Alberth>euhm, it is probably just me, but I've trying to find out where discussions about the Wiki take place. The Village Pump speaks of 'Talk' pages, and Users' pages and 'sign with 4 tilde characters'. Is there a meta-discussion Wiki page (a page that discusses how to do discussions)?
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05:42<eekee>there should be a talk link at the top of each page if it's mediawiki
05:42<ccfreak2k>Yep. Each page has a talk page.
05:44<Alberth>There is a 'discussion' tab, and it looks like discussion, but no 4 tildes thingies there.
05:45<Alberth>Also, suppose I put up an item there? Then what, how is something decided?
05:46<Alberth>In the 'history' tab there are lots of red (ie non-existing) refs to 'Talk' pages
05:48<Alberth>Or can I just start writing text, shuffling pages, etc?
05:49<eekee>ya click on the Talk link for a page you want to comment on, red or not
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06:07<Wolf01> the drag&drop doesn't work, any suggestion?
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08:52<Celestar>hm ... how does one use this libtimidity sound driver? :P
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09:01<AmixE90>Hey. Just wonder why v0.6.1 vs nightly builds is so different?
09:01<Celestar>different in what means?
09:01<Celestar>the nightlies contain usually way more features
09:03<frosch123>Hmm, is it documented behaviour, that feof() fails after fseek() ?
09:03<AmixE90>MorphOS version of the game wont be supported because it doesnt close right, while nightly builds gets updated etc...
09:07<Celestar>dunno anything about MorphOS
09:08<Celestar>frosch123: "fails" in what way?
09:09<Celestar>frosch123: fseek clears the EOF indicator
09:09<Celestar>frosch123: that is documented
09:09<frosch123>yes, that is what google also tells me.
09:10<frosch123>But that is not very obvious for someone used to more decent programming languages :p
09:12<Celestar>frosch123: I don't see the problem
09:12<Celestar>AmixE90: sorry. I know about MorphOS, but not about the openttd port :D
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09:13<frosch123>Celestar: I.e. the OTTD tar loader has a 'while (!feof(f))' with an 'fseek' at the end.
09:14<frosch123>I guess it is pure luck that there is somewhere a 'continue' before the 'fseek' that prevents infinite execution
09:14<Celestar>frosch123: where is that?
09:15<frosch123>It also reads the next tar header from the file without checking whether data was available
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09:16<fjb>I'm voting vor a second tram track type. Wuppertal is calling.
09:16<Celestar>frosch123: interesting :D
09:17<AmixE90>Ohh... Wuppertal got a tramline?
09:17<frosch123>So I guess the result of fread() should be checked to be 512
09:19<frosch123>and the 'while (!feof(f))' could as well be replaced by 'for(;;)'
09:21<Celestar>frosch123: I quite agree (=
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09:22<AmixE90>Fjb: cooool
09:22<Celestar>try it and see what happens
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09:32<Eddi|zuHause3>AmixE90: "a tram of special kind" :p
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09:37<AmixE90>Eddi|zuHause3: yes. Its a metro rather
09:37<Eddi|zuHause3>i'm assuming these elevated vehicles will still stop if a road vehicle is in front of them...
09:37<Eddi|zuHause3>AmixE90: no, juristically it's classified as a tram
09:37<AmixE90>Its listed as metro on
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09:40<AmixE90>The thing in Wuppertal is a metro ;)
09:41<jorisslob>Companies can have the same name now, right?
09:42<Eddi|zuHause3>"Verkehrsrechtlich gesehen ist die Wuppertaler Schwebebahn eine Straßenbahn besonderer Bauart." [wikipedia]
09:45<AmixE90>Well, thats not correct
09:46<Eddi|zuHause3>says who?
09:47<AmixE90>If it was a tram. It would have run at streetlevel. The wuppertal schwebebahn is totally seperated. Thats why its a metro.
09:47<jorisslob>Well, nobody said it, but I am trying the advanced naming your company code from the wiki, and the SetCompany name doesn't seem to fail
09:47<jorisslob>causing all my AIs to use the same name
09:48<Eddi|zuHause3>AmixE90: where in the law does it state that a tram has to run on streets?
09:49<@Rubidium>or even at streetlevel
09:50<AmixE90>Well. The wuppertalbahn isnt at the streetlevel at all. It runs like Paris and Chicago metro. Above the ground, though it is hanging.
09:50<@Rubidium>there are trams that don't run at streetlevel at all
09:50<@Rubidium>and the metro in Paris runs at places at streetlevel
09:50<AmixE90>Rubidium: ?
09:50<Mchl>Things not to do: put 'SVN revert' next to 'SVN commit' in TortoiseSVN context menu
09:51<Eddi|zuHause3>german railway law has exactly two choices: "railway", meaning high speed and long distance between stops, and "tramway", meaning low speed and short distance between stops
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09:51<@Rubidium>AmixE90, from the dictionary: any of various vehicles: as a: a boxlike wagon running on rails (as in a mine), b: [...]
09:51<AmixE90>Rubidium: oki. I didnt knew that
09:51<@Rubidium>and metro is just short for metropolitan railway
09:52<jorisslob>Ah, nevermind... companies aren't getting the same name
09:52<Eddi|zuHause3>and choosing between one or the other has implication on the amount of security you have to put into it
09:52<@Rubidium>so technically the wuppertal bahn might be a metro (assuming wuppertal is a metropolitan area), but it doesn't make it not a tram
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09:53<AmixE90>No.. Metro is mostly underground, but can run above the ground aswell and at streetlevel. Wagons are bigger, platforms too etc
09:54<AmixE90>Hehe, seems we sit with different definitions. You can call it a tram.. Its ok for me, but for me its a metro. Rather one of worlds oldest metro
09:55<Eddi|zuHause3>AmixE90: obviously you have no idea what you are talking about
09:55<@Rubidium>the thing is: metro and tram aren't multual exclusive
09:56<Eddi|zuHause3>"metro" is a short form of "metropolitan railway", meaning exactly what it says, "railway in a metropolitan [huge city] area"
09:56<AmixE90>And thats what Wuppertal-bahn is
09:57<Eddi|zuHause3>that has absolutely nothing to do with wether it is above ground or underground...
09:57<Eddi|zuHause3>and Wuppertal is not exactly the largest city around...
09:58<AmixE90>H-bahn in Dortmund is a light-metro
09:58<AmixE90>Or so called peoplemover
09:58<Eddi|zuHause3>Dortmund is slightly bigger than Wuppertal :p
10:00<AmixE90>So dont say that i dont know.. Bah. Here people asks how can a tram go underground as they are used to see no trams underground ;p
10:01<@Rubidium>those people have not enough knowledge of the world's implementations of trams
10:01<Eddi|zuHause3>i've also seen the word "Metrotram" before
10:04<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13692 /trunk/src/spritecache.cpp: -Fix (r13674): loading PNG sprites could very quickly fill the sprite cache.
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10:16<AmixE90>Eddi|zuHause3: in france you find tram-train ;)
10:16<+glx>not many of them though
10:17<AmixE90>In Strasbourg and Alicante I think
10:17<AmixE90>Some other cities?
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10:18<+glx>near Bondy IIRC (or it is just planed)
10:18<Eddi|zuHause3>since when is Alicante in france?
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10:18<+glx>good question indeed ;)
10:18<AmixE90>In spain
10:19<Eddi|zuHause3>well, could have been i missed something :p
10:19<AmixE90>Well. He wrote in not many places
10:19<AmixE90>And i replied where i know
10:20<+glx>but you were talking about France
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10:20<+glx>(I replied to <AmixE90> Eddi|zuHause3: in france you find tram-train ;) )
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10:21<AmixE90>Its Saturday
10:21<AmixE90>Come on.. Doh
10:22<AmixE90>France, spain, portugal.. All the same.. Just different languages ;)
10:23<Eddi|zuHause3>USA, Israel, Afghanistan, South Korea... all the same, just different languages...
10:24<AmixE90>They are all outside of EU
10:24<Eddi|zuHause3>exactly, proves my point...
10:24<Mchl>which makes them all the same
10:26<AmixE90>Trams, light-rail, peoplemover, metro, underground, streetcar, local train, tram-train, busstram, monorail
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10:39<Mchl>quite current information about Warsaw too
10:39<AmixE90>Wuppertal is under red dot ;p which means it is metro
10:40<Eddi|zuHause3>"it's in the internet, it must be true!"
10:41<AmixE90>Mchl: its quite nice
10:42<AmixE90>Yes. Wuppertal is more a monorail
10:42<AmixE90>Bah my English
10:42<Eddi|zuHause3>of course the Schwebebahn Wuppertal is a monorail
10:42<AmixE90>A question. Is there plans porting openttd to Symbian mobiles?
10:42<Eddi|zuHause3>but nowhere in the law it states that a tram has to have 2 rails
10:43<AmixE90>But it is
10:43<Eddi|zuHause3>well, technically the Schwebebahn has a secondary rail for electric transmission
10:45<hylje>i'm a bit puzzled as to why top-suspended monorail is so rare
10:46<Eddi|zuHause3>infrastructure costs are higher than conventional rail, i suppose
10:46<AmixE90>No massproduction of rails for it etc
10:46<Eddi|zuHause3>especially operation of switches is difficult
10:46<AmixE90>I think
10:46<hylje>i don't see it fundamentally very expensive, it's just not in such volume than conventional rail
10:47<Eddi|zuHause3>so building up a network is complicated
10:47<hylje>most tram networks get away with little switchwork
10:47<hylje>but they are indeed needed
10:49<CIA-3>OpenTTD: frosch * r13693 /trunk/src/fileio.cpp: -Fix (r11106, r11117): Do not rely on .tar files always ending with a block of zeros.
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11:15<Celestar>hm ..
11:16<Celestar>the code doesn't compile with -DNO_DEBUG_MESSAGES
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11:46<frosch123>Lakie, DaleStan: You might want to join as I am pretty sure it also applies to TTDP.
11:46*Lakie goes to read
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12:02<Davelister>hello world
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15:28<Sacro>hang on
15:29<Sacro>is it WWOTTDGD
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15:30<Prof_Frink>No, it's YMOTTDGD
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15:37<MorgyN>what would open trasport tychoon do, gawd damn?
15:38<Sacro>MorgyN: English only please
15:38<Eddi|zuHause3>something like that :p
15:38<MorgyN>its english, just with bad spelling...
15:40<Wolf01>bah, I don't want to continue my patches... too complicate, too many stupid errors I make, not much ideas, not much knowledge, not much help... 3, 2, 1, REVERT!
15:50<planetmaker>Uh... wolf01 - bad day?
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15:50<planetmaker>enjoy the game now on our wwottdgd server :)
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15:50<Wolf01>like every saturday
15:52<planetmaker>hm... every Saturday is bad? Nahh...
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15:54*LA gets a present every Saturday... not :(
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16:01<Eddi|zuHause3>saturdays are only bad when there's no doctor who :p
16:02<@Rubidium>which is about 3/4th of the saturdays then
16:02<fjb>The doctor comes sundays.
16:02<@Rubidium>not the dubbed german version
16:03*fjb doesn't have BBC.
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17:19<Sacro>Why does OpenTTD have English (UK)
17:19<Sacro>surely that is just English
17:20<+glx>to make it clear it's not English(US)
17:21<ln>or Engrish(JP)
17:21<Sacro>glx: why>#
17:21<Sacro>if the americans complain then tell em to piss off
17:22<Sacro>do you have "French (France)"
17:22<Sacro>and "French (Canadian)"
17:22<+glx>there's only 1 French lang file
17:22<Sacro>and "French (Allo Allo)"
17:23<Mchl>there's also English (Original veh names)
17:25<Eddi|zuHause3>we should have Sächsisch and Schwäbisch as languages :p
17:25<ln>i'm having trouble choosing which french to choose as the one and only doesn't say if it's France or Canada or Suisse.
17:25<ln>well, actually I've never run OpenTTD in french, but that's beside the point.
17:26<Mchl>yeah... who uses translations anyway? :P
17:29<ln>who said i don't use a translation?
17:31*Mchl slaps himself
17:33<ln>besides the original is full of incomprehensible things such as "Patch settings" and "TTDPatch-style non-stop handling".
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17:39<Mchl>they're even more incomprehensible in polish
17:40<Mchl>for whatever reason patches are translated as 'plugins'
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17:42<Mchl>night Wolf
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18:01<ln>Mchl: well, is that any more wrong than "patches"?
18:03<Mchl>a bit more
18:03<Eddi|zuHause3>"plugin" is more what a grf is
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18:11<dih>what's up with the nightlies?
18:18<@Rubidium>network trouble at the time the compile was scheduled, so svn update didn't do it's work
18:18<@Rubidium>so let's hope it does it's work tomorrow
18:18<dih>thanks for the info :-)
18:29<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13694 /trunk/src/build_vehicle_gui.cpp: -Change: make it more explicit that you've opened the available train/ship/etc. list instead of the one where you can actually build vehicles by setting the appropriate title for the window.
18:29<Eddi|zuHause3>i vote for removing the "build vehicle" button instead of greying it out
18:30<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13695 /trunk/src/mixer.cpp: -Fix [FS#2120]: in some cases the (sound) mixer could overflow causing artefacts in the sound.
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20:16<@Belugas>[18:26] <Eddi|zuHause3> i vote for removing the "build vehicle" button instead of greying it out <- not a bad iread, actually :)
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20:17<Eddi|zuHause3>i think the reason for not removing it back then was that the GUI code was not dynamic enough to handle that
20:17<Eddi|zuHause3>i hope that has changed meanwhile ;)
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21:08<@Belugas>i guess so
21:08<@Belugas>i'll check it out
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22:44<CIA-3>OpenTTD: belugas * r13696 /trunk/src/build_vehicle_gui.cpp:
22:44<CIA-3>OpenTTD: -Fix[GUI]: The Build button of the vehicle list is now hidden, instead of just disabled. It will be only visible when called from the Depot Building Window.
22:44<CIA-3>OpenTTD: Less confusion, hopefully. Suggested by Eddi.
22:55*Belugas goes practicing slide guitar now...
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23:16<UltraNoob>can a main line be L_L_~_R_R??
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---Logclosed Sun Jul 13 00:00:15 2008