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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-07-13

---Logopened Sun Jul 13 00:00:15 2008
---Daychanged Sun Jul 13 2008
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00:58<k-man>how can i get trains out of a busy station more efficiently?
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02:16<Celestar>how do these conditional order jumps work?
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02:30<Ammler>good morning :-)
02:30<Ammler>src/economy.cpp:1329: Money DeliverGoods(int, unsigned ch
02:30<Ammler>nsigned char): Assertion `num_pieces > 0' failed.
02:31<Ammler>Celestar: you can jump to a specific order (skip orders) due the condition you set.
02:32<Ammler>like "go to drop station if you are full, else go to station x to load more."
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03:04<Celestar>hey Ammler
03:05<Ammler>heya Celestar :-)
03:06<Ammler>(the assert isn't from trunk, it is from #wwottdgd)
03:11<Celestar>setting up realistic train servicing is difficult
03:12<ccfreak2k>Yes, that's how "realistic" things tend to work. :)
03:14<Celestar>he I made it
03:17<Celestar>there :D
03:18<hylje>fancy network you got there
03:19<ccfreak2k>Is that your pickup line?
03:19<hylje>why yes
03:20<ccfreak2k>Why don't you just have it say "jump to 5" and end it there?
03:20<Celestar>ccfreak2k: what do you mean?
03:21<Celestar>ccfreak2k: well right
03:21<Celestar>that would simplyfy it :)
03:21<ccfreak2k>It goes "Go to Witfingfield, go to 1, go to Witfingfield".
03:21<ccfreak2k>Why bother having those last two?
03:22<hylje>to be extra fancy
03:23<Celestar>because it's not yet optimized :D
03:23<Ammler>how is "service" triggered?
03:24<Ammler>you could also use realibility
03:25<Ammler>I assume service does "just" count days, so that would be more "realistic" :-P
03:25<Celestar>yeah I could
03:26<Celestar>but normally companies have regular service intervals, and don't drive the train until it breaks down every other hour :P
03:26<Celestar>and then hope it limps to the depot somehow :P
03:26<Ammler>that is how service works
03:27<Celestar>what is how service works?
03:27<Ammler>"go to depot every 180 days"
03:28<Ammler>but ususally you co also to depot if you have broken breaks after 30 days.
03:28<Ammler>lol "co"
03:29<Ammler>and that is how realibility works, it shows you, if something randomly broken.
03:30<Ammler>maybe you can use both :-)
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03:31<Ammler>(goto depot if service or realibiltiy < 60%)
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03:54<de_ghosty>i had a train break down on me in gb
03:54<de_ghosty>we lost an engin lol
03:54<Celestar>well trains DO break down
03:55<hylje>usually pretty rarely, but when it happens stuff is fucked up
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05:37<Celestar> \o
05:41<dih> /
05:41<dih> /\
05:41<dih>TAXI ?
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05:52<Celestar>:o there is an opengl blitter?
05:52<Celestar>I mean a diff :)
05:54<@peter1138>My one and this other one.
05:55<Eddi|zuHause4>yes, by TiberiusTeng or something
05:57<ln>and a third one by phaser, last updated in 2003.
05:58<@peter1138>Technically that wouldn't be using the blitter system...
06:14<Rexxie>does the GPU actually handle blitters in OTTD? (this coming from an uneducated person.. :p)
06:19<@peter1138>Wrong way around.
06:20<@peter1138>The blitter talks to the GPU (usually via layers such as SDL or GDI, though)
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06:36<Rexxie>makes sense :)
06:37<Rexxie>is there a reason why signals on bridges/in tunnels is now supported? and patches are discontinued?
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06:53<Eddi|zuHause4>i didn't understand the question either
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07:05<Rexxie>wow, I must still be asleep
07:05<Rexxie>*is there a reason why signals on bridges/in tunnels is not possible? and the patches that tried to implement this functionality are discontinued?
07:07<Eddi|zuHause4>are you referring to a specific patch?
07:07<Eddi|zuHause4>i am fairly certain this feature is still under development
07:07<Eddi|zuHause4>but it's a very difficult feature
07:11<Ammler>Rexxie: do you mean that: :-)
07:11<Rexxie>that looks mad impressive
07:11*eekee would be really really happy with that ^^
07:12<Eddi|zuHause4>i wouldn't expect that feature to hit trunk in the next year :p
07:12<eekee>a shame :)
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09:23<Rexxie>what are the main factors that make a town grow?
09:27<Doorslammer|BRSet>And concrete
09:27<Doorslammer|BRSet>Not mutually together of course
09:27<Doorslammer|BRSet>Thats just wrong
09:28*Doorslammer|BRSet imagines the day when Sex is put into ECS
09:29<SpComb>I guess OpenTTD's demographic model doesn't go down to that level of detail, though
09:32<Rexxie>Go to RexxCity Docks (Full load Sex)
09:32<Rexxie>Go to RexxCity Central (Transfer and leave empty)
09:33<Rexxie>I wonder how the transfer rate on sex would be... squares/days
09:33<frosch123>You can already drive a vehicle into a depot and press 'clone'.
09:33<Rexxie>frosch123: LOL
09:34<Eddi|zuHause4>"mommy, mommy, where do the little vehicles come from?"
09:34*frosch123 thinks of the amount of vehicles a depot can handle at once.
09:34<Doorslammer|BRSet>Ask your Hereford, dear
09:42<Doorslammer|BRSet>Butterbridge Vaseline Refinery (Production: 1.643 boxes of goods/month)
09:49<Eddi|zuHause4>"neutrally packaged boxes"
09:51<Doorslammer|BRSet>Wellpool Brothel increases production by 23%!
09:52<Doorslammer|BRSet>But the big question remains...
09:52<Doorslammer|BRSet>How do you transport Sex?
09:52<Doorslammer|BRSet>Livestock wagon?
09:59<ln>what is the PEGI rating for OpenTTD?
09:59<Sacro>it does have crashes...
09:59<Sacro>but the PEGI rating doesn't apply here
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10:02<ln>7+: "Does the game contain: Depictions of implied violence to humans where the actual violence (death or injury) is not shown"
10:03<ln>"This is where you do not actually see any violence to humans but it is obvious what is happening. It covers such matters as the bombing of a city where you know civilians are killed and injured, blowing up a tank or shooting down a plane where you know the crew are killed, smashing into cars or other vehicles where the driver/passenger must be injured."
10:06<Eddi|zuHause4>you honestly want to put a 6 year old child in front of TTD?
10:06<Eddi|zuHause4>the complexity of the game far outweighs the amount of "violence" shown :p
10:07<Sacro>ln: yes, it has that
10:07<Sacro>83 dead in collision
10:08<ln>Sacro: yeah, and the 100% mortality in accidents.
10:08<Sacro>yes, that is harsh
10:09<@Rubidium>don't forget the gambling
10:09<@Rubidium>(when you bribe a town)
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10:18<ln>a requirement for 12+ is: "The game must actually teach the player how to gamble or bet and/or encourage the player to want to gamble or bet for money in real life. For example this will include games that teach the player how to play card games that are usually played for money or how to play the odds in horse racing."
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10:23<@Rubidium>it all depends on how you interpret the guidelines; you could even give OTTD a 18+
10:25<Eddi|zuHause4>yeah, if LV4 in the uncensored version is loaded :p
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10:58<Pikita>Diagonal Roads
10:58<Pikita>to make better road junctions!
10:58*Pikita pokes Ammler
10:58<hylje>how about also one-lane one-way roads and stuff?!
10:59<Ammler>current railtraffic is more like roadtraffic in rw
10:59<Pikita>I want to make an entire road network
10:59<Pikita>but the roads suck atm
10:59<Pikita>so you cant
10:59<Ammler>at least what we build it at coop
11:00<Pikita>Ammler with new roads we should do a network only using roads haha
11:02<hylje>roads just need a great pathfinder (that doesn't particularly care about single vehicles)
11:02<hylje>and magically more bits for map array
11:02<Pikita>and traffic lights
11:02<Wolf01>without increasing savegame size
11:02<Pikita>and ummm
11:03<hylje>the problem with road vehicles is mostly that there'll be a lot of them
11:03<hylje>(vs. trains)
11:03<Pikita>road vehicles re fun though
11:03<Pikita>especially if you made a great road network
11:04<Pikita>now doe anyone have a save game copy of the Mega Rail Scenario from TTD
11:04<Wolf01>I want a fully working daylength without bugs
11:04<hylje>it'd be even more fun given private (town-generated) traffic :-)
11:04<hylje>and simulated people
11:05<Pikita>that would be coool
11:05<Pikita>getting cars using your roads
11:05<hylje>(then we'd have a strange amalgation of ttd and simcity)
11:05<Pikita>and you could set up toll booths on your roads
11:05<Pikita>to get more income :)
11:06<Pikita>and it would create traffic meaning road vehicles would be slowd
11:06<Pikita>but then they would have to be made more cost effective to keep them as a viable option
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11:07<hylje>that'd also involve towns and other AI entities building a basic road network
11:08<hylje>to be of any use
11:08<hylje>because there'd be traffic from non-player entities
11:08<hylje>players cant be expected to do it all
11:11<Pikita>but i think it would improve TTD alot
11:17<Doorslammer|BRSet>Don't call us, we'll call you ;)
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12:03<frosch123>hmm, why am I not married to Eva Hermann ?
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12:05<frosch123>She could iron my business shirts.
12:05<@Rubidium>isn't someone of 108 a little too old for you?
12:06<frosch123>Hmm, then "Eva Hermann" is not a unique name.
12:07<Forked>still 50 is also fairly old.. by internet standards ;)
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12:10<CIA-3>OpenTTD: frosch * r13697 /trunk/src/fileio.cpp: -Feature: Add some support for symbolic links in .tar files.
12:15<hylje>reimplementing GNU tar?
12:17<frosch123>You can put data files for OTTD in uncompressed .tar files. Very useful for 32bpp replacements with hundreds of .png files.
12:19<SpComb>hylje: yes, doesn't look like the code uses any library
12:20<frosch123>I doubt that there is any library available that does what we need.
12:21<frosch123>I.e. find the offset and size of a certain file in a .tar file without extracting it.
12:27<SpComb>the .tar format's a pretty silly format if no proper libraries exist for it
12:27<SpComb>libtar looks somewhat ancient
12:27<HMage>why not zip?
12:27<HMage>it's used widely in games
12:28<frosch123>"uncompressed" is the most important property here
12:28<HMage>make an uncompressed zip :)
12:31<frosch123>Hmm, where is the main artists' information for creating .tar files? There does not seem to be anything on the wiki nor in the sticky forum topics.
12:33<@Rubidium>does zip support symlinks?
12:34<frosch123>zip is a dos format, I doubt that
12:35<Wolf01>whoa "production at xxxxxx farm increases 100%!"
12:36<Wolf01>from 9 items of livestock to 18 :|
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12:38<Eddi|zuHause4>Wolf01: now imagine that going on for another 63 months :p
12:38<SpComb>libtar does support just reading the headers
12:39<Wolf01>now imagine if that farm is serviced only by livestock trains
12:40<Wolf01>how much happy are the engineers to start the trains one day early
12:40<Wolf01>150 days and 149 days aren't so different
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14:07<petr>hi everyone... I have a question. I've written a histogram/average speed accounting for openttd, and I'd like the histogram window to repaint periodically. How to do it?
14:07<petr>Right now I just SetWindowDirty after each repaint, which more or less works, but is a terrible cpu hog.
14:08<Eddi|zuHause4>petr: look for functions called OnTick*
14:09<petr>Eddi|zuHause4: ok, thanks
14:09<Eddi|zuHause4>petr: in openttd.cpp there should be a function that gets called every tick, and handles date changes and stuff
14:12<frosch123>IIRC windows also have a 'OnTick' method
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14:22<petr>oh yeah, windows do get WE_TICK event
14:22<petr>cool, that will do the trick
14:24<hylje>magic railroad tycoons
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14:26<petr>and interestingly enough it's not hogging the cpu as much even if I dirty the window on each tick ^o^
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15:44<CIA-3>OpenTTD: frosch * r13698 /trunk/src/fileio.cpp: -Fix (r13697): MorphOS compilation.
15:45<frosch123>* (with support from tokai)
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16:20<kyevan>Man OpenTTD lags like hell in huge network games
16:20<kyevan>(Though admittedly some of the fault is probably on the WWOTTDGD patches)
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18:21<SpComb>ln: puuma?
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18:22<ln>super puma
18:22<SpComb>name of helicopter?
18:23<ln>"The Eurocopter Super Puma (originally built by Aérospatiale) is a helicopter marketed for civil and military use."
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18:26<ln>anyway, the police closes the street every time that thing lands or takes off.
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18:33<ln>gränsbevakningsväsendet.... what a ridiculously long word.
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18:35<Eddi|zuHause4>that's a long word?
18:36<ln>no, but they must have chosen a helicopter model with long enough tail so the whole word fits on it.
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18:37<Eddi|zuHause4>what does that even mean? something to do with border patrol?
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18:38<ln>"[The Finnish] Border Guard" is what they seem to be using on their web page.
18:39<ln>but the word is actually swedish.
18:39<Eddi|zuHause4>yeah, i figured it is not finnish :p
18:39<Eddi|zuHause4>it's too close to german :p
18:40<ln>Rajavartiolaitos in finnish.
18:41<Eddi|zuHause4>see, that is not even remotely understandable :p
18:41<SpComb>Raja - vartio - laitos
18:41<Eddi|zuHause4>with the other word you see the close relationship to the german word "Grenze"
18:42<Eddi|zuHause4>(meaning border)
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18:43<Eddi|zuHause4>SpComb: no, it's not
18:44<Eddi|zuHause4>with a little good faith you also recognise the word "bewachung" [meaning guard]
18:44<ln>the building on the background is a hospital
18:44<Eddi|zuHause4>but i can't figure out what "väsendet" is supposed to mean
18:46<Eddi|zuHause4>ln: yeah, i thought that from the beginning, if you didn't point out the word, i'd have thought it's a medical helicopter
18:47<ln>strangely enough, väsende(t) means something like "being" [noun], "das Wesen", according to dictionary.
18:47<Eddi|zuHause4>yeah, i thought so, too, but i couldn't fit the "det" in there
18:49<ln>what they mean by it must be "border guarding organization/department/institution"
18:49<Pikita>has anyone got an ottd convertion of MegaRail or West Country 90211 from TTD
18:49<Eddi|zuHause4>it's not uncommon to end names of institutions in -wesen
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18:50<Eddi|zuHause4>but it's more like abstract institutions, like "Gesundheitswesen"
18:50<Eddi|zuHause4>[meaning the whole institutional system of health insurance and hospitals, no specific institution]
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---Logclosed Mon Jul 14 00:00:18 2008