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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-07-16

---Logopened Wed Jul 16 00:00:14 2008
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03:15<planetmaker>morning #openttd
03:16<Forked>good morning :)
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03:32<Yorick>wtf...the ai built me a signalled trainline without 90-deg turns
03:33<Noldo>what are the odds of that!
03:34<Yorick>a million to 1
03:34<Yorick>but still, it does
03:36<@Rubidium>Yorick: but there is a 90 degree turn
03:37<Yorick>shh, only because it made signals
03:37<@Rubidium>there are actually 2
03:37<Yorick>I haven't seen it making junctions before, so I'm proud of it :)
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03:43<Yorick>it's got 43 trains now
03:43<Ammler>Yorick: you should make a ai for noai which behaves like the original ai... :-)
03:43<Yorick>tb doesn't like me
03:44<Ammler>is that needed?
03:45<Yorick>it is if I want any support
03:45<Yorick>hmm, is that original ai supposed to be learning?
03:46<Yorick>or is it my imagination that thinks it's making train junctions
03:48<Yorick>I'll make a giant screenshot
03:50<Ammler>but host it on faster server, please.
03:55<SpComb>bah, too hard to get to the file
03:55<Yorick>that's slow
03:56<SpComb>shouldn't everyone have their own hosting in some form or another these days?
03:56<Yorick>I don't like paying for that
03:56<Ammler>google pages.
03:57<SpComb>Yorick: then buy some cheap VPS or something
03:57<Yorick>then I still need a domain
04:00<SpComb>well, domains do have some kind of value
04:01<SpComb>and you can get sensible subdomains for free, e.g.
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04:11<Celestar>I've overloaded one of my hubs
04:13<Yorick>spcomb: thanks :)
04:15<@Rubidium>you can only make an AI like the original AI when it cheats like hell and doesn't pay for terraforming
04:15<@Rubidium>which is IMO one of the bad things of the current AI
04:32<Kommer>Yorick: a domain costs 15 euro's a year.. thats not much? or host it on your own computer :)
04:34*fmauNeko pays his domain around 6 euros a year :p
04:43<Celestar>Rubidium: 420000 delivered cargo. I'm getting there :P
04:43<@Rubidium>how big is your map?
04:44<Celestar>the typical 1k
04:44<Celestar>but it's only a single cargo type
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04:48<@Rubidium>so you should get to 500,000*64/11 ;)
04:49<Celestar>is this a challenge? :P
04:50<@Rubidium>if you're up to it ;)
04:50<Celestar>dunno if I have enough houses to produce that number of passengers
04:50<@Rubidium>grow the towns
04:51<@Rubidium>you only need 7 times as many passengers to transport
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04:52<Celestar>I've not yet connected every hamlet on the map
04:53<Celestar>I'm already at 25% CPU load :P
04:54<@peter1138>that'll be yapp ;)
04:54<Celestar>not sure.
04:54<Celestar>want me to profile it?
04:55<@peter1138>hmm, 1k is typical?
04:55*peter1138 usually plays at 256
04:55<Celestar>most play that size meanwhile :P
04:57<Noldo>with yapp-patch but without using yapp features might be the interesting to profile
04:59<Yorick>it's around 10% slower
04:59<SpComb>a fair price to pay
04:59<Celestar>Yorick: where's the loss of speed?
04:59<Yorick>at least on fast-forward ;)
04:59<Noldo>SpComb: for nothing?
05:00<Ammler>Did you ever think about special extensions for the tar files?
05:00<@peter1138>It wasn't 10% slower for me.
05:00<Ammler>.tar for grfs and noai will confuse people...
05:00<@peter1138>What do you mean?
05:01<Yorick>the .tar for 32bpp and noai
05:01<Yorick>they have the same format, I'll confuse
05:02<Celestar>does multistop work with drive through stop?s
05:02<Ammler>something like trg and tai or so :-)
05:04<@peter1138>What does you mean by the same format?
05:04<@peter1138>Celestar: Yes.
05:04<Ammler>Celestar: do you use trunk head?
05:04<Yorick>peter1138: both tars
05:05<@peter1138>I don't get it :o
05:05<Yorick>they would both look the same
05:05<@peter1138>Should we not use zip for noai or something then?
05:05<@peter1138>Silly keyboard, typing words I don't want.
05:05<Yorick>better .ai.tar
05:05<Noldo>windows doesn't have problems with that kind of filename?
05:05<@Rubidium>Yorick: you can do that, right?
05:06<Yorick>Noldo: nope
05:06<planetmaker>I prefer yorick's destinction of different tar files - helps to keep an overview
05:06<Ammler>tar files should also show, if they already have the grf inside :-)
05:06<@Rubidium>yeah, placing AIs in another directory than the graphics does too
05:06<@peter1138>tar is a standard archive format...
05:06<planetmaker>myfancy.grf.tar :P
05:07<Celestar>peter1138: gotta disappoint you
05:07<Yorick>but that does not work at download
05:07<planetmaker>Yorick: what doesn't work for download? filenames with several '.' ?
05:07<Celestar>wrong profile
05:07<@peter1138>Celestar: What's that supposed to be?
05:08<@Rubidium>and several dots in filenames doesn't work on DOS ;)
05:08<Yorick>planetmaker: no, when stuff is downloaded, users can't actually know if it's an ai or a grf
05:08<Celestar>peter1138: no . right profile. That'S a 150-train game with yapp :D
05:08<Yorick>Rubidium: we don't use DOS, do we?
05:08<Ammler>Rubidium: shouldn't you name files like they are no directories?
05:08<@Rubidium>orudge made a POC DOS binary not long ago
05:08<@peter1138>Yorick: Surely if you're downloading it... you know what it is?
05:08<@peter1138>Celestar: Right, but a profile on its own means nothing.
05:09<Yorick>peter1138: some people are just stupid
05:09<@peter1138>Yorick: Yes, you are.
05:09<Yorick>that too
05:09<Celestar>peter1138: true, but yet the blitter takes most of the effort
05:09<@orudge>whee, DOS :D
05:09<@Rubidium>hmm... idea
05:10*orudge never quite got around to finishing the video driver however, as it was being a pain
05:10<Noldo>orudge: hilight?
05:10<Yorick>but I mean the "hmm, where does that file go...hey, a bin! *drags to recycle bin*"-kind
05:10<@peter1138>Celestar: So what am I being disappointed about?
05:10<@orudge>Noldo: quite
05:10<planetmaker>Celestar: I think the point is to make a differential profiling analysis - and compare the impact :)
05:10<@Rubidium>add .console.exe for Windows console applications, and ..netcrap.exe for .NET crap and such too?
05:10<@Rubidium>and .gui.exe if it contains a GUI?
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05:10<Celestar>peter1138: about yapp eating all my CPU :P
05:11<@Rubidium>maybe for zips containing applications and when it contains graphics?
05:11<Yorick>ok, other example...what if you find a directory full of tars
05:11<planetmaker>especially for a game where yapp is not used, but compiled in the binary compared to the same game, but yapp not compiled to the binary
05:11<Yorick>and you want to use them all
05:11<@peter1138>Celestar: Ah, well, I wasn't the one who profiled it as using up to 10% more.
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05:12<Yorick>that would be rubidium, I think
05:13<@Rubidium>Yorick: the filename should be descriptive enough, anything else is just pointless complexification of making the tar and loading it
05:14<Yorick>what did you think I was suggesting...
05:14<Yorick>"the filename should be descriptive enough"
05:15<@Rubidium>you were suggesting forcing .tai or whatever variation thereof (i.e. an extension) to be the way to tell it what it is
05:15<@Rubidium>and now what does Windows do by default?
05:15<planetmaker>[11:02] <Ammler> something like trg and tai or so :-)
05:15<Yorick>rubidium: crash?
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05:16<@Rubidium>hide the extension
05:16<planetmaker>[11:05] <Yorick> better .ai.tar
05:16<@Rubidium>that's also an extension
05:16<Vikthor>Yorick: I think best would be to leave it to authors of said files
05:16<Yorick>but it will show the .ai
05:16<Vikthor>it's the same as in adding w to windows palette grf's
05:17<Vikthor>you are not required to do so, but everybody does
05:17<blathijs>Vikthor: Having a recommendation for authors improves consistency, which is not bad
05:17<@Rubidium>but forcing someone to use a specific format is bad
05:17*Celestar goes installing KDE4.1rc1
05:17<Ammler>Vikthor: but it needs suggested, that why I am asking
05:18<Yorick>rubidium: forcing someone to not use a specific format is even worse
05:18<planetmaker>yeah, but changing the file extension is bad imo
05:18<Ammler>because currently nobody does. Either 32bpp authors and AI devs.
05:18<@Rubidium> <- why the extra ai?
05:18<planetmaker>having a convention for filenames is good, though
05:18<blathijs>Rubidium: Unless you want to do some filtering based on filename/extension, but it's probably enough to simply assume that everything in some directory is of the right kind
05:19<@Rubidium>it is in distinctly different directories (unless someone starts playing with (sym)links)
05:19<planetmaker>Rubidium: it indeed enhances readability of the dir contents
05:19<@Rubidium>planetmaker: what directory?
05:19<planetmaker>or, if you find a file posted and just download it now - and have a badly sorted download dir :P - a typical user error :D
05:21<@peter1138>... user error
05:22<planetmaker>well... it doesn't hurt no one to name files according to their usage.
05:23<planetmaker>but then I'm a person who found a tar bug with too long file names for multiple-file archives :P
05:23<@Rubidium>the why aren't the newgrfs in your ottdcoop pack?
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05:24<planetmaker>Rubidium: the grf pack is just putting the files as they are provided... we have no right to modify :)
05:24<@Rubidium> etc.
05:24<Ammler>[11:18] <Rubidium> <- why the extra ai? <-- convoy.tar
05:24<planetmaker>Rubidium: indeed I like the naming scheme sketched by you more :)
05:24<planetmaker>makes clear what the file does
05:24<@Rubidium>so forcing something just for the case when someone failed to make it clear it was an AI
05:25<planetmaker>Rubidium: it's not forcing as it works without. But it's about recommending
05:25<@peter1138>Open the tar and you shall see...
05:26<Ammler>yeah, I fear you need to do that 1. time.
05:26<Ammler>specially to check if the grf is inside too.
05:27<planetmaker>like it's a good idea to have a current virus scanner - but you're not required to
05:29<Yorick>how to set custom fonts on openttd?
05:29<@Rubidium>read readme.txt?
05:29<Yorick>"open your configurationfile and add a desired font for small/medium/-and large_font" but there is no large_font, small_font or medium_font
05:30<@Rubidium>then your openttd doesn't support it
05:30<Yorick>it's trunk
05:30<@Rubidium>build without freetype support and such
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05:53<Yorick>ld: cannot find -lintl
05:54<fmauNeko>Yorick: gettext-devel ?
05:54<dih>where is the difference between PlayerByte and PlayerID ?
05:55<fmauNeko>Yorick: libintl is in gettext :p
05:55<Yorick>dih: probably in player_type.h
05:55<Yorick>fmauNeko: and why does it want gettext
05:55<dih>i did not ask WHERE it is i asked where the DIFFERENCE is
05:55<fmauNeko>hmm, don't know :p
05:57<Yorick>playerID is type Owner
05:57<Noldo>dih: one is TineEnumT<Owner> other
05:58<Noldo>What is that TinyEnumT<> anyway?
05:58<dih>but then the Player struct holds 'index' which is PlayerByte
06:01<@Rubidium>PlayerID is an enum of undefined size, PlayerByte is a 'wrapper' for that enum with defined size
06:01<@Rubidium>and the defined size is needed if one wants to use OTTD's savegame mechanism
06:03<dih>what is it's size Rubidium ?
06:03<@Rubidium>the size of what?
06:04<dih>TinyEnumT<Owner> ?
06:04<Noldo>dih: it's byte
06:04*dih runs
06:07<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13708 /branches/0.6/ (12 files in 2 dirs):
06:08<CIA-3>OpenTTD: [0.6] -Backport from trunk:
06:08<CIA-3>OpenTTD: - Fix: Possible buffer overflow in string truncation code (r13700)
06:08<CIA-3>OpenTTD: - Fix: Handle SETX(Y) properly when truncating a string instead of ignoring it and returning a too long string (r13699)
06:08<CIA-3>OpenTTD: - Fix: In some cases the (sound) mixer could overflow causing artefacts in the sound [FS#2120] (r13695)
06:08<CIA-3>OpenTTD: - Fix: Do not rely on .tar files always ending with a block of zeros (r13693)
06:08<CIA-3>OpenTTD: - Fix: Make sure a command is ran in the context of autoreplace or not (r13691)
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06:14<Yorick>you should not only do r13693, but also the fix to it ;)
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06:18<@Rubidium>there is no fix for 13693
06:19<@Rubidium>done that
06:20<@Rubidium>but it's totally pointless to add that to the 0.6.2-RC1 changelog
06:20<@peter1138>Holy crap!
06:20<@peter1138>I didn't realise Yorick was our project manager now.
06:21<Gekz>he is?
06:21<ln>of course he is
06:21<Celestar>he bought us :)
06:21<Celestar>and he pays us :D
06:21<Gekz>in cookies.
06:21*Yorick pays celestar a cookie
06:21<ln>Gekz: do you know someone whose nick begins with Y that is not a project manager?
06:22<Celestar>Ya-Ya Sisterhood
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06:22<@Rubidium>ln: you?
06:23<dih>Yorick is the mascot
06:23<Gekz>New Caledonia kicked ass btw.
06:24<Gekz>My French speaking is now +1.
06:25<Celestar>when is 0.6.2RC1 planned for release?
06:25<Gekz>wtf is a plan
06:25<@Rubidium>somewhere in the future?
06:25<dih>in the NEAR future
06:26<Celestar>are we measuring it in microseconds? :P
06:26<dih>if you want to watch numbers change all the time for weeks, you can if you like
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06:27<Yorick>we are measuring it in square pieces of Rubidium
06:28<Noldo>speak for yourself
06:29*Celestar pulls off his sock and stuffs it into Yorick's trap :P
06:29<dih>Yorick: you are annoying
06:29<Yorick>dih: again?
06:29<dih>no - still
06:32<@Rubidium>Celestar: if you want to count in µs: going to take at least millions of them ;)
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06:35<@Rubidium>yay ;)
06:35<Eddi|zuHause2>err... where did that come from?
06:35<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13709 /branches/0.6/src/lang/ (20 files): [0.6] -Backport from trunk: language updates.
06:37<Celestar>do we still support NO_DEBUG_MESSAGES?
06:37<@Rubidium>why wouldn't we?
06:38<Celestar>because it fails compiling :D
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06:38<@Rubidium>you broke it ;)
06:40<Celestar>Rubidium: we have direct reference to _debug_SOMETHING_level in .cpp files. with NO_DEBUG_MESSAGES, they don'T exist. the question is whether just to do an #ifndef NO_DEBUG_MESSAGES around those parts of the code
06:41<TiberiusTeng>Rubidium, I hava a little question about that PNG loading stuff in spritecache.cpp
06:41<@Rubidium>and you're asking me? :)
06:41<Celestar>Rubidium: and no, SmatZ broke it, not me :P
06:42<TiberiusTeng>why isn't the PNG being loaded at the same time with GRF sprite, but before any non-sprite checking/loading stuff ?
06:42<SmatZ>mmm gamelog? :-x
06:42<TiberiusTeng>because you commited that fix in trunk, r13692 :p
06:42<@Rubidium>lol ;)
06:42<Celestar>SmatZ: yeah, for example (we have other places too)
06:42<@Rubidium>Celestar: like where?
06:43<Celestar>Rubidium: like gamelog.cpp:120,324
06:43<@Rubidium>that's gamelog
06:43<@Rubidium>npf is guarded by ifdef
06:43<@Rubidium>and openttd.cpp is also gamelog
06:43<TiberiusTeng>IMO if the PNG is used to replace some GRF sprites, it should be loaded when we actually try to load the GRF sprite ...
06:43<TiberiusTeng>so I was wondering why spritecache.cpp doing that
06:43<Celestar>Rubidium: good point :D
06:44<TiberiusTeng>and I'm not really sure who to consult about these sprite stuff, actually.
06:44<@peter1138>yeah, the npf one is already guarded
06:44<@Rubidium>TiberiusTeng: I have no idea; I just forgot to set a variable in one exit case, don't know more about it than that I did forget it
06:44<@peter1138>so yes, it's safe to just ifndef them out
06:44<Celestar>we also get a good buncho warnings (mostly empty if) with that flag.
06:44<Celestar>k. want me to do this?
06:45<Celestar>it'd feel good to make a commit :P
06:45<@peter1138>TiberiusTeng: Isn't the sprite only loaded the first time it is used, for both PNG and GRF sprites?
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06:46<Celestar>why isn't just DEBUG(gamelog,0) something being used there is the question ...
06:46<TiberiusTeng>peter1138, yes, but seems if someone try to use a sprite as a non-sprite or vice versa, it'll get reloaded ...
06:47<TiberiusTeng>and that fix by Rubidium really fixed it, yes
06:47<TiberiusTeng>(I was moving the entire PNG loading stuff below, above the place actually loading GRF sprite, and that worked too)
06:50<Celestar>peter1138: <= something like this?
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06:57<SmatZ>Celestar: you can #ifdef whole GamelogPrintDebugProc and GamelogPrintDebug
06:57<SmatZ>I think
06:57<Celestar>SmatZ: why not using DEBUG(gamelog,.. )=
06:58<SmatZ>Celestar: it prints only one line
06:59<SmatZ>GamelogPrintDebug() prints to debug output
07:00<Celestar>SmatZ: does it print any message?
07:01<Celestar>besides "gamelog" ?
07:04<SmatZ>current solution saves calls to GamelogPrint when debug level is too low
07:04<SmatZ>it can be changed to work in a different way
07:04<SmatZ>so it is called every time with different debug level somewhere in a static variable
07:05<SmatZ>no need to profile, the performance impact is near to zero
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07:14<SmatZ> Celestar you could use this...
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07:21<SmatZ>Celestar, are you here?
07:23<Celestar>sorry :P
07:24<Celestar>SmatZ: what does the diff change?
07:25<SmatZ>Celestar: it doesn't use _debug_gamelog_level anymore
07:25<SmatZ> fixed :-P
07:25<Celestar>well then, go for it? ;)
07:26<SmatZ>mmm but it calls whole printing stuff
07:26<SmatZ>with only muted output :-x
07:26<SmatZ>what do others think?
07:26<Celestar>methinks you should use DEBUG() :P
07:27<SmatZ>methinks you are right :-P
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08:59<Eddi|zuHause2>my RMB is broken :(
09:02<Celestar>buy an apple
09:06<Eddi|zuHause2>very logical conclusion ;)
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10:06<Ammler>peter1138's nice patch repo isn't available anymore :-(
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10:07<@peter1138>you've had weeks to get at it
10:08<SpComb>I set up my own hg repo, and have my friends clone from it whenever we play together
10:09<SpComb>(assuming windows users are not my friends)
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10:09<Yexo>SpComb: hg works perfectly fine here under cygwin (and thus windows) :p
10:10<SpComb>compiling is probably the main issue
10:10<SpComb>or does BuildOTTD somehow solve that problem?
10:10<Ammler>peter1138: just wanted someone to show your grf presets patch...
10:10<Yexo>BuildOTTD will not work with a hg repo, but gcc is available under cygwin, so compiling isn't a problem
10:13<Ammler>Yexo: gcc is availabe with BOTTD
10:14<Yexo>well, then compiling shouldn't be a problem at all (assuming your friends are not afraid of the command line :p )
10:14<SpComb>installing cygwin is a bit of a pain
10:15<Yexo>true, but after the installation I have access to most common unix commandline tools under windows
10:17<fmauNeko>somebody can explain me the work around mercurial and svn ?
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10:18<Yexo>what do you want to do with it?
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10:41<Bloody>Where I can find OpenTTD for windows mobile 6.0?
10:41<dih>in the forums
10:41<+glx>we don't make it
10:41<dih>was a bad and wild guess
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12:06<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13710 /branches/0.6/ (6 files in 4 dirs): [0.6] -Prepare: for 0.6.2-RC1.
12:13<ArmEagle>man.. making your own catenary (32bpp zoom) takes a lot of fiddling around..
12:15<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13711 /tags/0.6.2-RC1/ (5 files in 3 dirs): -Release: 0.6.2-RC1.
12:20<fjb>Did something change in the way the sounds get played? I'm getting distorted sounds sometimes and some sounds are not played at all.
12:20<Eddi|zuHause2>making a catenary is easy: plot(cosh(x))
12:21<ArmEagle>at least i have a script that does transformations on the base 3 images.
12:21<planetmaker>!commit 13706
12:21<planetmaker>@commit 13706
12:21<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: Commit by frosch :: r13706 trunk/src/mixer.cpp (2008-07-15 17:13:50 UTC)
12:21<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: -Fix (r13695): Small typo.
12:21<planetmaker>^ that should have fixed something with the sound if I understand correctly...
12:22<fjb>planetmaker: Thank you. I'm using r13704... Time to make an upgrade...
12:24<planetmaker> <-- I really love this site :). Tells you what's going on in an overview and with as much details as you want :P
12:25<fjb>I know that site, but didn't look at it today.
12:27<fjb>Next problem is that something eats the depot orders sometimes. Is that the autoupgrade of the vehicles?
12:30<Eddi|zuHause2>i have that behaviour sometimes, i never figured out why
12:30<Eddi|zuHause2>do you have servicing disabled?
12:31<fjb>No, service and breakdowns are enabled.
12:36<Eddi|zuHause2>the behaviour i noticed was: when i send a train to the depot manually, it sometimes would cancel that depot order and head its usual way
12:36<fjb>planetmaker: Sounds much better now.
12:36<Eddi|zuHause2>is your problem something similar?
12:38<fjb>No, I hat especially roadvecles which dind't stay in the depot after sending them there. And I noticed depot orders of road vehicles and trains becoming invalid orders.
12:38<fjb>And service at depot orders tend to send the vehicles allways to the depot.
12:39<fjb>I'm using the latest yapp patch. But that things usually happen to road vehicles too.
12:41<fjb>Hm, sound is still not allways playing...
12:43<dih>but i seem to fail to find where the client receives it
12:45<@Rubidium>it receives it exactly there
12:45<dih>no - that is where the server receives the packet and then sends Packet packet(PACKET_UDP_SERVER_DETAIL_INFO);
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12:45<dih>and the client needs to receive that packet
12:47<dih>sorry - i did not express that properly above
12:47<dih>i cannot fine where the client receives PACKET_UDP_SERVER_DETAIL_INFO
12:48<Eddi|zuHause2>you're still making no sense :p
12:49<Eddi|zuHause2>that's not even what i meant ;)
12:49<dih>what's not to understand? :-P
12:49<dih>client sends PACKET_UDP_CLIENT_DETAIL_INFO to the server
12:49<dih>server replies with PACKET_UDP_SERVER_DETAIL_INFO
12:50<dih>yet i cannot fine the piece of code where the client actually receives that PACKET_UPD_SERVER_DETAIL_INFO
12:50<@Rubidium>actually... PACKET_UDP_CLIENT_DETAIL_INFO isn't send
12:50<dih>how else will the client request the details?
12:51<@Rubidium>via tcp I reckon
12:51<dih>in the multiplayer window?
12:51<dih>well - openttdlib sends a PACKET_UDP_CLIENT_DETAIL_INFO :-P
12:52<dih>and PACKET_UDP_SERVER_DETAIL_INFO is the one that overflows when more than 11 clients are on a game
12:52<dih>which asserts :-P
12:53<@Rubidium>I guess you need to unify the TCP and UDP packets; so if it works over TCP is also works over UDP
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12:56<dih>why on earth does that packet actually then exist?
12:57<dih>i mean - i am happy - it means openttdlib can get more details
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12:57<dih>but if the game actually does not use it?
12:57<@Rubidium>because someone had much more plans for the server list
12:57<dih>makes sense
12:57<@Rubidium>but it never got actually implemented in the website
12:58<dih>the master server code is also publicly available in the svn tree right?
12:58<dih>then let's skip that here and get back to it another time ;-D
12:59<dih>thank you for shedding light on that :-)
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13:53<TrueBrain_DC>You guys ever survived without and :p
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13:54*ln doesn't read tt-forums
13:54<KingJ>I've still got my TTDLX DOS disk, just don't remove DosBox :)
13:59<hylje>yea, what's that thing?
13:59<hylje>from all i've heard it's just massively overrated
13:59<TrueBrain_DC>hehe, good :)
13:59<TrueBrain_DC>makes my job easier ;) Mwhahahaha :p
13:59<TrueBrain_DC>have a good one all :)
13:59<Eddi|zuHause2>what's a .org and a .net?
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14:00<Eddi|zuHause2>what exactly is he up to?
14:01<Prof_Frink>psychological warfare.
14:01<yexo>Eddi|zuHause2: check the announcement on :p
14:01<Eddi|zuHause2>... right :p
14:01<yexo>the servers are moved to another datacenter
14:03<DaleStan>frosch123: I did finally go digging in TTD and TTDPatch code concerning that bug you informed Lakie and me about.
14:04<hylje>was it but a clever ruse?
14:04<Eddi|zuHause2>i don't understand that sentence
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14:19<frosch123>DaleStan: Thanks, I read your FS post. Though I did not yet spend more time thinking about it. But when TTDP's solution already worked that long... The issue with cargo delivered to both industires and houses/towns looks rather unimportant to me as long as there are no available newgrfs affected.
14:20<frosch123>Callback 148 might also be involved in the second issue.
14:24<fjb>frosch123: Sound has still some problems, even after r13706.
14:25<frosch123>fjb: Use "-s null -m null". Works quite nice for me :p
14:28<frosch123>Or to say it in another way: I have no clue about the sound stuff and will never notice problems as I very much dislike the sounds/music. I only fixed an obvious typo :)
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14:58<@Rubidium>fjb: I myself have no problems with the sound, so there's hardly anything I can fix
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15:01<fjb>Hm, some sounds are not played. Looks randomly.
15:01<SmatZ>fjb: there are only 8 sound channels
15:05<blathijs>w00t, Debian packages uploaded
15:11<joachim>did the debian discussion on the openttd package lead to anything?
15:13<blathijs>joachim: Yes, it's included in contrib since a year or so
15:14<joachim>the debian mailing list is used as a reference in wikipedia to prove openttd's legality is disputed...
15:14<joachim>i think that's against their source policy
15:14<joachim>as a mailing list is pretty much open to anyone
15:15<Eddi|zuHause2>and a wiki is different from that how exactly?
15:16<joachim>Eddi|zuHause2: it's not, that's why they require reliable sources for whatever the wikiusers contribute
15:16<joachim>another wiki (with no reliable source) is not a reliable source :)
15:17<Prof_Frink>[citation needed]
15:17<Prof_Frink>as xkcd would say
15:19*MorgyN puts [citation needed] on all your cats
15:19<blathijs>joachim: The discussion didn't really lead anywhere, and about a year after the discussion, one of the ftpmasters turned out to be an openttd fan :-)
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15:32<Eddi|zuHause2>"disputed" is not the proper word anyway... it'd involve two parties with opposing views
15:38<blathijs>Eddi|zuHause2: There were parties with opposing views on debian-legal back then
15:40<ccfreak2k>1. Buy your own .com.
15:41<ccfreak2k>2. Host a web page that says "The legality of OpenTTD is disputed."
15:41<ccfreak2k>3. Set that as your citation.
15:43<Chrill>oh Prof_Frink, that site is not an existing one
15:43<Prof_Frink>We then
15:43<Prof_Frink>It's not disputed
15:49<MorgyN>tbh it will be disputed till its in a court of law or the IP owner goes Nope its fine.
15:50<MorgyN>on the record
15:50<MorgyN>Schrodinger's TTD
15:51<MorgyN>certainly better than Pavlov's TTD
15:51<MorgyN>I rang bell, Train arrived at station....
15:52<Eddi|zuHause2>you meant: "*ding* *ding* *ding*" means "desync error"
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15:53<Prof_Frink>When you ring a bell, a train drives across a road
15:54<Chrill>thus you must not be standing on the road
15:54<+glx><Eddi|zuHause2> you meant: "*ding* *ding* *ding*" means "desync error" <-- not it's "connection lost"
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16:18<Forked>tt-forums down or it just my isp acting up again..
16:18<Forked>I'll kick their asses, starting with my own :)
16:19<yexo>it's down for a few hours
16:19<@Rubidium>tt-forums lies in the trunk of some car
16:19<Forked>no asskicking then :\
16:21<Eddi|zuHause2>why did you tell him, i'd totally have loved to see him kicking his as :p
16:27<Prof_Frink>Forked: No, you can kick orudge
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16:31<fissanq>can anyone play online ?
16:31<+glx>everyone can
16:32<ln>dunno, but have you seen Bjarni over there?
16:32<fissanq>hmm cant find eny servers
16:32<@Rubidium>only not now
16:32<dih>no - the guy behind the bush in kenya cannot
16:32<@Rubidium>as the server containing the server list is being moved
16:32<@peter1138>I saw a guy called 'bjarni!' in TF2...
16:32<+glx>you can play, but you need to know the servers :)
16:32<dih>Rubidium, you got my message?
16:32<fissanq>anyone know any servers ? :o
16:33<@Rubidium>yes, just haven't read them thoroughly
16:34<fissanq>hmm those servers are not 0.6.1
16:34<dih>they are nightlies
16:34<fissanq>which is down
16:34<dih>or join the channels #openttdFairPlay and #openttdcoop respectively
16:34<dih>oh :-P
16:36<dih>perhaps this helps:
16:36<dih>i am trying to reach the google cache ;-P
16:39<dih>fissanq, here try this:
16:41<fissanq>not working here
16:41<fissanq>there it weas
16:44<Forked>Prof_Frink: oh I can't kick orudge.. the forum is excellent :)
16:44<@orudge>I have @, and you don't
16:45*Prof_Frink kicks orudge
16:45<dih>run... your kick is not half has powerful as his
16:46<Prof_Frink>Yeah, but orudge loves me.
16:47<ln>i suppose openttd has been compiled on ARM?
16:48<ln>ok, not much point in testing that then.
16:48<@Rubidium>and armel and mips(el) and sparc and s390 and alpha and hppa and m68k and 'the usual' stuff
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16:55<ArmEagle>hmm tt-forums down?
16:55<@orudge>it's being moved
16:56<dih>after the move it will be forums-tt
16:56<@orudge>well, that's a possibility, but no. :P
16:56<ArmEagle>someone would have to register it first :)
16:57<dih>ArmEagle, does not take that long
16:57<dih>perhaps an hour or 2 depending where you register it
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17:17<dih>page is back up :-)
17:19*glx hates Yexo (if it's host says what I think it does)
17:19*Yexo hates his wireless connection :(
17:19<+glx>I mean th ftth part
17:20<Yexo>ah, that part is true :)
17:20<Yexo>100mbit internet :)
17:20<+glx>wifi is silly then :)
17:21<Yexo>well, the router is in the basement, and I'm on the second floor
17:21<Yexo>my connection flips every few hours (or more) :(
17:22<+glx>it's always possible to use a cable (not aesthetic sometimes)
17:22<Yexo>we had cables in here, but the house-owner wanted us to remove them because the fire-brigade said so
17:22<Yexo>so that's not really an option
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17:23<Yexo>(ok, the cables were all over the stairs :p)
17:24<ArmEagle>Cool, your firedepartments check for trippyness?
17:25<+glx>I have a cable going from ground floor to 1st floor through basement and roof
17:25<ArmEagle>dih what page? Forums still aren't
17:25<Yexo>I've never seen them, but the houseowner told me so
17:25<@Rubidium>dih: the forums are there, but don't not quite work yet
17:25<@Rubidium>but only if you know what you're looking for ;)
17:25<@orudge>Forums will depend on your DNS updates
17:25<ArmEagle>In 8 days I'll be here: That's a lot more cables than anything you'll ever have at home :)
17:25<@orudge> for the forums
17:25<@orudge>although you wont' be able to log in there
17:26<ArmEagle>ahh thanks
17:26<@Rubidium>yeah, that kinda times out the connection
17:29<XeryusTC>ArmEagle: you're going to cz too?
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17:30<Ammler>why is that closed?
17:30<ArmEagle>XeryusTC aye, I'm a veteran.. my 8th time. 10th time camping like this
17:30<Ammler>it is not a bug report
17:30<ArmEagle>And here I am, wasting time on my stupid 32bpp-zoom catenary..
17:30<XeryusTC>ArmEagle: very nice, it will be my 3rd time, i didnt go last year :P
17:31<ArmEagle>heh, lucky you..
17:31<XeryusTC>i'm with the [BI] folks :P
17:31<ArmEagle>We almost drowned..
17:31<Ammler>if I update it to HEAD, I need to open a new one?
17:31<XeryusTC>we had that in 2005 too :P
17:31<Ammler>isn't that kind of stupid?
17:31<ArmEagle>neh.. not this bad: (oh yeah, we had a bad start too)
17:32<XeryusTC>btw, if you're going for the 8th time you must have been there the first time too?
17:32<ArmEagle>And 2 years before that we went to the predecessor: WAN (northern netherlands)
17:32<Eddi|zuHause2>i almost thought when you said "cz" you were referring to the country :p
17:33<dih>Ammler: i doubt it needs updating :-P
17:33<Yexo>Rubidium: the readme mentioned on the download page ( still says 0.6.0-beta5 as release version
17:33<Ammler>dih, is it in trunk?
17:33<XeryusTC>ArmEagle: heh, my first time was just in 2005 :P
17:33<dih>Ammler: no but that file never changes :-D
17:34<XeryusTC>but well, as i've said, i'm going with the [BI] folks :P
17:34<XeryusTC>should be fun
17:34<Ammler>well, it is still stupid
17:35<XeryusTC>unfortunately we werent able to find a solution for real time beer stats :(
17:35<ArmEagle>heh that's an idea.. we should put some waterflow meter in there..
17:35<Ammler>(I mean the comment of closing...)
17:36<dih>Ammler: the command has no hooks defined
17:36<XeryusTC>ArmEagle: yes, but they're too expensive for something like that :P
17:36<dih>and what happens if it's issued on a network server while clients are connected
17:36<Eddi|zuHause2>yeah, we do have "resetengines" which basically serves the same purpose
17:36<XeryusTC>and the cheap ones break too easily when you have air flowing through it :P
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17:37<Eddi|zuHause2>dih: but that was not the reason for closing
17:37<dih>the reason for closing is that there is no work on the current console
17:37<dih>or no additions to the current console
17:37<Ammler>the reason was "do not change GRF"
17:38<dih>you mean - don't load a grf in a running game
17:38<dih>yes - makes sense
17:38<Eddi|zuHause2>the problem is that "running game" includes "scenario map with no industries yet"
17:38<Ammler>yoricks patch has that hook you asked about, btw. :P
17:39<dih>there are a few hooks... :-P
17:39<dih>you should only allow it from scn editor, or single player
17:39<dih>or even better
17:39<dih>create a gui button in the scn editor
17:40<Ammler>dih: I can't, it is closed!
17:40<dih>then you dont need no console command and not hooks
17:40<dih>do the work first
17:40<dih>then show the patch
17:40<dih>then you have a higher chance of getting it reopened
17:44<Ammler>but that means, you should not use FS to post patches...
17:44<Ammler>only if you want those included in trunk
17:45<Ammler>I thought, it is also something like a repo for patches...
17:48<dih>yeah - because says
17:49<ccfreak2k>One person made an online "patch vending machine" for fceu once.
17:49<ccfreak2k>You could mix and match several patches/options, then it spit out the patched binary and/or source.
17:50<Ammler>then sorry about, will use tt-forums next time.. :-)
17:55<dih>if you really want people to look at it, bugs or here :-P
17:56<Ammler>well, was just happy about closing, but as I saw the reason...
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18:39<Ammler>what about calling those functions (reseteconomy and resetengines) with the apply button on the GRF GUI?
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18:57<Eddi|zuHause2>Ammler: no, why would you do that, when just reordering the catenary grf?
18:58<Eddi|zuHause2>especially if the command can have nasty sideeffects with inflation
18:58<Ammler>but it is the right place, if you do it over gui, isn't?
18:59<Ammler>you could detect, if you add a grf or just reorder...
19:00<Eddi|zuHause2>don't even attempt that..
19:00<Ammler>well, the sideeffect is not nasty
19:01<Ammler>it will "just" reset inflation.
19:01<Ammler>afaik :-)
19:01<Eddi|zuHause2>that is totally enough of a reason to not do it
19:02<Ammler>well, ctrl+click isn't good either.
19:02<Ammler>so it would need a 2. apply or reset button...
19:05<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause2: do you know how devs like that newgrf gui patch in general?
19:06<Ammler>the drag'n'drop is awesome.
19:06<Eddi|zuHause2>the only real concern was the size, afaik
19:06<Eddi|zuHause2>but you should probably ask the devs :p
19:07<Ammler>I really enjoed the wwottdgd configuration with it.
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19:07<Ammler>they seems silent currently :-)
19:07<Eddi|zuHause2>you just need to highlight them enough times :p
19:08<Eddi|zuHause2>and nag about it :p
19:08<Ammler>nah, I do that enough all the time...
19:08<Eddi|zuHause2>they'll have no other choice than to reply to you :p
19:09<Ammler>we have quite a nice collection for our client side patch pack already.
19:10<Ammler>I do not need to push patches, which can be used independent from server...
19:11<Ammler>and planetmaker is going to be a pro with keeping those patches up2date :-)
19:12<Ammler>I would much more like to see the rivers in the game, if I could wish :-)
19:13<Eddi|zuHause2>the design document is there, you just have to implement it :p
19:13<Ammler>nah, I am happy with adding the button, like TTDPatch.
19:15<Ammler>I can't code new things, just copy from somewhere else...
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19:21<Ammler>well, time to sleep over...
19:21<Ammler>goog night all
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19:22<Gekz>goog night.
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20:10<ArmEagle>Is the location of the savegames, screenshots, etc directory hardcoded in the client?
20:11<Yexo>no, they are saved in the directory where openttd finds openttd.cfg
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20:11<ArmEagle>ah, it will check the gamedir first. then 'myDocuments'?
20:11<Yexo>I think so
20:11<ArmEagle>ok, thanks
20:12<Yexo>not sure of the order in which they are checked
20:12<Yexo>iirc gamedir is indeed first
20:12<ArmEagle>seems logical :)
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20:21<+glx>it's all explained in the readme
20:22<+glx>section 4.2
20:24<ArmEagle>hmm, indeed
20:25<+glx>the part about save dir and openttd.cfg is important
20:26<+glx>(4th note)
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21:03<ArmEagle>hmm, now the forums really seem to be down :)
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21:21*Belugas_Gone wonders if a playme.mp3 would have more chances to be examined than a readme.txt
21:23<@Belugas_Gone>hello glx
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21:48<DaleStan>Belugas_Gone: Define it as the default first soundtrack.
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21:53<@Belugas_Gone>going to bed. will be out for 3 days. see you and enjoy the night
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---Logclosed Thu Jul 17 00:00:46 2008